David Brooks: Thurston Howell Romney

Red alert! Romney has lost Brooks!
Politics • Views: 34,283

Looks like New York Times conservative David Brooks is a mite put out by Mitt Romney’s “47 percent” comments; he’s actually breaking out the Gilligan’s Island references: Thurston Howell Romney.

Romney, who criticizes President Obama for dividing the nation, divided the nation into two groups: the makers and the moochers. Forty-seven percent of the country, he said, are people “who are dependent upon government, who believe they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to take care of them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it.”

This comment suggests a few things. First, it suggests that he really doesn’t know much about the country he inhabits. Who are these freeloaders? Is it the Iraq war veteran who goes to the V.A.? Is it the student getting a loan to go to college? Is it the retiree on Social Security or Medicare?

It suggests that Romney doesn’t know much about the culture of America. Yes, the entitlement state has expanded, but America remains one of the hardest-working nations on earth. Americans work longer hours than just about anyone else. Americans believe in work more than almost any other people. Ninety-two percent say that hard work is the key to success, according to a 2009 Pew Research Survey.

It says that Romney doesn’t know much about the political culture. Americans haven’t become childlike worshipers of big government. On the contrary, trust in government has declined. The number of people who think government spending promotes social mobility has fallen.

The people who receive the disproportionate share of government spending are not big-government lovers. They are Republicans. They are senior citizens. They are white men with high school degrees. As Bill Galston of the Brookings Institution has noted, the people who have benefited from the entitlements explosion are middle-class workers, more so than the dependent poor.

Romney’s comments also reveal that he has lost any sense of the social compact. In 1987, during Ronald Reagan’s second term, 62 percent of Republicans believed that the government has a responsibility to help those who can’t help themselves. Now, according to the Pew Research Center, only 40 percent of Republicans believe that.

Jump to bottom

829 comments
1 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:16:35pm
2 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:16:57pm

Put yourself in Mitt's shoes for a moment. Think how much he's dreading the rising sun tomorrow...almost makes you feel sorry for the poor fucker, until you remember he's an emotionless robot.

3 Locker  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:17:03pm

We need more conservatives like Mr Brooks.

What turns me off of many contemporary American conservatives and liberals is the huge amount of partisan bullshit at the expensive of honesty, informed judgement and good sense.

I am an extremely social liberal and a slight-left of center economic liberal. I can not STAND listening to people on "my side" screaming the party line as a response to any reasonable question just as much as "their side". Even worse I can't abide either "side" holding up every stupid little gaff as a reason to either laugh at, marginalize or criticize a candidate, not for their position but for some arbitrary red meat for their own club.

If we made a game of putting forth names of people from our respective sides who we do support, who do "speak for us" then I'd put out two names:

Bill Moyers
Elizabeth Warren

Regardless of how you feel about their positions these are smart thoughtful and reasonable people who can have a discussion, consider points, provide reference and who are interested in moving things FORWARD not just winning.

Mr Brooks has spoken in that manner this evening.

Sorry, that was long.

4 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:17:33pm

re: #1 erik_t

Welp, we're boned.

Exactly. Except that robot has feelings.

5 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:17:55pm

I would SO DO Mary Anne.

6 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:18:13pm

This really is the last thing he needed after coming off as an insensitive prick after Libya. But hey Mitt maybe next time huh.

7 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:18:18pm

Can't we talk about jobs?

8 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:18:31pm
9 jaunte  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:19:03pm

Moochers!

IRS forms released Tuesday by Mitt Romney's presidential campaign show that despite reporting income of $21.7 million, the couple paid only $20,603 in taxable wages for household help in 2010. This figure was divided among four women: Rosania Costa ($4,808), Kelli Harrison ($8,667), Susan Moore ($2,238) and Valerie Cravens Anae ($4,890).
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

10 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:19:58pm

re: #7 Mich-again

Can't we talk about jobs?

"Specifically the one I want you all to give me for the next 8 years?"

11 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:20:41pm

Its like Romney is taunting me. I am determined not to take this election for granted, and then he practically slaps me in the face and says, "How about this! Still think I have a chance now? What till you see the boner I pull tomorrow!"

12 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:20:45pm
13 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:21:09pm

re: #10 Targetpractice

"Specifically the one I want you all to give me which I deserve, and for which I was bred, the next 8 years?"

14 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:21:39pm

re: #8 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Zwick, if your candidate can't handle this sort of shit, how's he going to handle the 3am phone call to inform him that Israel's dropped bombs on Iran? Or that Russia is making the moves again on one of its former satellites?

15 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:21:49pm

You know, maybe someone should just let Mitt play a president in a movie. It would make him feel better perhaps.

16 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:21:51pm

It should be noted that vote-by-mail started today in North Carolina...recovering from a fuck-up like this isn't so easy this close to the election.

17 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:22:08pm
18 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:22:10pm

re: #11 aagcobb

I hope to God he didn't slap you with that boner

19 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:22:18pm

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would SO DO Mary Anne.

So would everyone else, which is why I'd prefer to sneak off and smoke a joint with Gilligan and the Professor. 99 problems and what-not.

20 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:22:58pm

Not on message: Romney's Hidden-Video Fundraiser Host In June (one month after the now-infamous party): Economy Is “Not Too Bad”

21 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:23:24pm

Thurston Howell Romney III doesn't trust the professor and all that science. He is suspicious that the Skipper and his little buddy might be gay. He hates the liberal Hollywood chick. Its down to the farm girl and the old hag.

22 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:23:52pm

...

23 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:24:06pm

Had to look up who Thurston Howell was.

24 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:24:27pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Wanna play with Gilligan’s Island reference? Here's one for ya:

"Just sit right back and you'll here a tale,
of America's stumble and trip.
That started in a Hawaiian port,
of Obama the Liberal Drip!
of Obama the Liberal Drip!"

Wow. You're totally fucking losing it now, aren't you?

25 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:24:37pm

Trololo

26 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:24:41pm

They both have that lockjaw thing going.

27 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:24:41pm

re: #23 recusancy

Had to look up who Thurston Howell was.

That's what Nick-at-Nite is for.

28 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:00pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Wanna play with Gilligan’s Island reference? Here's one for ya:

"Just sit right back and you'll here a tale,
of America's stumble and trip.
That started in a Hawaiian port,
of Obama the Liberal Drip!
of Obama the Liberal Drip!"

I thought he was Kenyan.

29 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:19pm

re: #21 Mich-again

Thurston Howell Romney III doesn't trust the professor and all that science. He is suspicious that the Skipper and his little buddy might be gay. He hates the liberal Hollywood chick. Its down to the farm girl and the old hag.

The farm girl smokes weed!!!
[Link: www.eonline.com...]

30 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:24pm

re: #23 recusancy

Had to look up who Thurston Howell was.

Just go and make me feel old, why don'tcha?

31 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:24pm

re: #28 Kragar

I thought he was Kenyan.

That was Kimba the White Lion

32 jaunte  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:27pm
33 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:28pm

re: #24 Mocking Jay

Wow. You're totally fucking losing it now, aren't you?

Just like Dana Loesch on Twitter.

Some folks just can't process that Mitt has well and truly fucked over his campaign in the last week, and tonight was the extra set of nails in the coffin.

34 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:43pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Wanna play with Gilligan’s Island reference? Here's one for ya:

"Just sit right back and you'll here a tale,
of America's stumble and trip.
That started in a Hawaiian port,
of Obama the Liberal Drip!
of Obama the Liberal Drip!"

When you see others jumping ship, it's a sign.
A very important one.
;)

35 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:56pm

Advice from Erickson...just what Romney needs right now. Ha!

Conservative Ostriches
By: Erick Erickson (Diary)

Folks, I’m going to tackle this head on tonight and I want to challenge you to tune in, though you might not like what you hear.
...snip...
Let’s get into this topic and whether conservatives are just refusing to see the lay of the land for what it is. Relatedly, I’ll get into how Mitt Romney needs to change things to win.

36 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:58pm

re: #28 Kragar

I thought he was Kenyan.

The Hawaiian part fit well and its has the benefit of being true. I'm not a birther, after all.

37 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:25:59pm

re: #29 Cannadian Club Akbar

The farm girl smokes weed!!!
[Link: www.eonline.com...]

Ain't nothing wrong with a farm girl or any chick for that matter who smokes weed.

38 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:26:09pm

This is the guy McCain chose Palin over.

39 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:26:29pm

"I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

And we'll never convince Mitt Romney to take responsibility for, or care about, the words that come out of his mouth.

40 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:26:37pm
41 spiderx  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:26:39pm

just looked at Romney's last tax return. He made his money from investments not income. Thus, he paid no income taxes. That makes Romney part of the 47%.

42 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:26:51pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Wanna play with Gilligan’s Island reference? Here's one for ya:

You legitimately make me sad. I pity you.

43 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:27:01pm

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

The Hawaiian part fit well and its has the benefit of being true. I'm not a birther, after all.

Nah, just a sad, bitter hack.

44 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:27:30pm

re: #31 Mich-again

That was Kimba the White Lion

Geez, is tonight the night for positively ancient cultural references?

45 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:27:33pm

Mitt should file a motion to make the clandestine video inadmissible evidence.

46 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:27:37pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

This is the guy McCain chose Palin over.

Yes, and it's actually starting to look like McCain may have not been so crazy not to pick him. I'm glad really that Mitt's showing himself to be a particularly shallow individual because we had to hear that Romney would have done better against Obama, and heck maybe that's true but he's shown himself to be a more incompetent candidate than McCain was. McCain was at least a likable war hero with a sense of humor.

47 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:27:44pm

re: #9 jaunte

Where does he find such cheap help? My piano teacher, who I only see once a week, gets $5K/year, and my personal trainer, who I see 3 times/week, gets a little more. How can he find people to work at his home for so little?

48 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:28:22pm

re: #34 Varek Raith

When you see others jumping ship, it's a sign.
A very important one.
;)


"Don't give up the ship! Fight her till she sinks!"

49 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:28:34pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

This is the guy McCain chose Palin over.

To quote Charlie Pierce:

This is a perfect demonstration of what every other Republican candidate came to hate about him in 2008 — I'm willing to bet that old John McCain is pouring himself a nice Merlot tonight, and chuckling evilly to himself — and what drove Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich around the bend four years later.

50 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:28:41pm

And the envelope please!!
The winner of the Bottom comment, didn't see this coming, is D_F!!
///D_F. You knew this before you posted your comment. Heh.

51 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:28:45pm

re: #41 spiderx

He paid, but at a lower capital gains or dividend rate.

52 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:28:56pm

re: #18 dragonath

I hope to God he didn't slap you with that boner

He couldn't hurt his chances of winning much worse than he is already doing if he did.

53 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:29:21pm

re: #48 Dark_Falcon


"Don't give up the ship! Fight her till she sinks!"

Dude, it's a political campaign, not Leyte Gulf...

54 Locker  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:29:28pm

Doesn't Mitt think that just MAYBE some of the 8% might have a worry or two that they'll be joining the 47% in the very immediate future? Don't you think that might affect their vote?

Buckethead.

55 alpuz  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:29:47pm

hear. Hear a tale.. and I suck at spelling. Sorry to be such a prude, but I did read something about a 'stumble' and a 'trip'.

56 bratwurst  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:30:05pm

re: #48 Dark_Falcon


"Don't give up the ship! Fight her till she sinks!"

So you just planning to stick your fingers in your ears and hum for the next 7 weeks? That is certainly what you are up to tonight.

57 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:30:07pm

re: #14 Targetpractice

Zwick, if your candidate can't handle this sort of shit, how's he going to handle the 3am phone call to inform him that Israel's dropped bombs on Iran? Or that Russia is making the moves again on one of its former satellites?

Take two tax cuts, roll back some regulations, and call me in the morning. If Putin's involved: DON'T BLINK. Maintain eye contact at all times. Make sure anyone else knows that you're better than they are solely because you're American. This will show them who's boss.

58 jaunte  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:30:16pm

re: #47 ReamWorks SKG

Just guessing, but it looks like contract workers that were paid by a cleaning services company.

59 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:30:51pm

I never thought I'd miss G.W Bush as the GOP's standard bearer. Thanks, Mitt.

60 spiderx  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:31:18pm

re: #51 ReamWorks SKG

He paid, but at a lower capital gains or dividend rate.

yeah but it wasn't taxed as income. It was taxed as capital gains.

61 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:31:22pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

I know it's tough for you right now, but here's some sincere advice: Put some witch hazel in a tub full of warm water and sit down gently. The burning sensation you feel will go away soon enough. Maybe listen to City Arts & Lectures on NPR while you're doing it...Linda Hunt's voice is quite soothing.

62 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:31:37pm

re: #59 HappyWarrior

I never thought I'd miss G.W Bush as the GOP's standard bearer. Thanks, Mitt.

Its true, Romney makes Bush look good in comparison.

63 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:31:46pm

re: #58 jaunte

Yeah, that's probably the safest way of doing it if you know you're running for office. Let another company handle checking eligibility, etc.

However, if that were the case, the service company would be the one listed on his tax form for the payment, and not the individuals.

64 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:31:51pm

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

The Hawaiian part fit well and its has the benefit of being true.

That didn't even scan all that well.

65 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:32:10pm

America should be ashamed for having 47% of a population that can't pay taxes.

Think about that.

66 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:32:20pm

re: #60 spiderx

It's still a check you write to the U.S. Treasury. It's Federal Income Tax.

67 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:32:34pm
68 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:33:16pm

re: #62 aagcobb

Its true, Romney makes Bush look good in comparison.

Romney makes Bush look like a fucking savant. Hell, he even makes Dukakis look better in comparison.

69 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:33:34pm

re: #62 aagcobb

Its true, Romney makes Bush look good in comparison.

Yep, no wonder he wasn't in Tampa. Kidding because I'm 90% sure that it was done out of choice more than anything.

70 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:33:50pm

re: #65 Gus

America should be ashamed for having 47% of a population that can't pay taxes.

Think about that.

Over half of those are retired seniors. It's not horrible.

71 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:33:54pm

There's profound honor in Commodore Perry and most of his works, and associating his statements and philosophies with some bullshit political dicktrip makes me sick. I won't downding it because that would give it legitimacy.

I'm done with the pity too, btw. Troll or idiot, I don't care, some people and their nonsense arguments aren't worth my time.

72 jaunte  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:34:01pm

re: #40 SpaceJesus

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

Republican nominee to win 350 or more Electoral College votes in 2012 Presidential Election

7.5%
CHANCE
[Link: www.intrade.com...]

73 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:34:08pm

re: #65 Gus

America should be ashamed for having 47% of a population that can't pay taxes.

Think about that.

Clearly the answer is union busting.

74 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:34:20pm

re: #68 Lidane

Romney makes Bush look like a fucking savant. Hell, he even makes Dukakis look better in comparison.

Honestly thought I'd never see a campaign more hapless or embarrassing than Kerry's in '04, but Willard has managed to pole-vault over that low-set bar.

75 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:34:22pm

re: #70 recusancy

Over half of those are retired seniors. It's not horrible.

True. But you know what I mean. The other half. That's BIG.

76 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:34:29pm

re: #23 recusancy

Had to look up who Thurston Howell was.

I'm too young to feel so old. Jeezus.

You know, now that I think about it, it's entirely possible that I could meet full-grown grown-ass adults who have never heard of Captain Kirk.

The clock is a cruel mistress.

77 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:04pm

re: #55 alpuz

hear. Hear a tale.. and I suck at spelling. Sorry to be such a prude, but I did read something about a 'stumble' and a 'trip'.

You're right. But I've had my fun, so I deleted the post.

78 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:22pm

Its less going down with the ship and more like...

79 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:23pm

re: #76 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

I'm too young to feel so old. Jeezus.

You know, now that I think about it, it's entirely possible that I could meet full-grown grown-ass adults who have never heard of Captain Kirk.

The clock is a cruel mistress.

Kirk, he was the bald one, right?

//

80 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:24pm

re: #74 Targetpractice

Honestly thought I'd never see a campaign more hapless or embarrassing than Kerry's in '04, but Willard has managed to pole-vault over that low-set bar.

Not only that, but Romney managed to bring out something in Kerry this year, dragging a strong DNC speech out of John Kerry. Who knew?

81 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:34pm
82 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:35pm

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

You're right. But I've had my fun, so I deleted the post.

Bored troll says what

83 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:47pm

re: #76 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

I'm too young to feel so old. Jeezus.

You know, now that I think about it, it's entirely possible that I could meet full-grown grown-ass adults who have never heard of Captain Kirk.

The clock is a cruel mistress.

I went to a party 15 years ago and ran into a 20 something who didn't know what the Twilight Zone was. I was 35 at the time, felt 80.

84 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:48pm

We're paying one person 18 million a year for sitting in a chair.

85 bratwurst  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:35:50pm

re: #70 recusancy

Over half of those are retired seniors. It's not horrible.

And many of the rest pay payroll tax...and ALL of the rest pay sales tax.

86 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:36:29pm

re: #84 Gus

We're paying one person 18 million a year for sitting in a chair.

Why do you hate America?

87 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:37:01pm

re: #71 erik_t

There's profound honor in Commodore Perry and most of his works, and associating his statements and philosophies with some bullshit political dicktrip makes me sick. I won't downding it because that would give it legitimacy.

I'm done with the pity too, btw. Troll or idiot, I don't care, some people and their nonsense arguments aren't worth my time.

So I use a famous line to counter someone else's talk of abandoning ship and that makes me evil or some such thing?

88 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:37:13pm

re: #78 Kragar

Its less going down with the ship and more like...

[Embedded content]

Was trying to find a clip of the Arizona exploding in Pearl Harbor, as that was what came to mind instead.

89 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:37:15pm

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

You're right. But I've had my fun, so I deleted the post.

You need to do that BEFORE PEOPLE QUOTE YOU...sheesh, haven't you learned anything from watching your candidate?

90 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:37:19pm

re: #67 Mocking Jay

I thought he gave away the money his dad left to him.

91 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:37:58pm

Heh.

92 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:38:21pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

So i use a famous line to counter someone else's talk of abandoning ship and that makes me evil or some such thing?

You disgrace Perry with your statements, and frankly you disgrace your joke of a candidate as well. Profound shame on you.

But I'm pretty much done responding to this live one. There's nothing left.

93 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:38:35pm

re: #51 ReamWorks SKG

He paid, but at a lower capital gains or dividend rate.

And in the years 2008 and 2009 it's certain that he had huge capital losses. Did he wipe out his entire federal income tax obligation with losses in those years? We don't know because he refuses to release the returns.

re: #65 Gus

America should be ashamed for having 47% of a population that can't pay taxes.

Think about that.

It's not true at all though. The 47% pay plenty of taxes, they just wipe out their income tax obligation with things like the the per child, mortgage interest payment credits and write offs for capital losses. And it's not that the 47% can't pay taxes, it's that they don't pay a net positive income tax. Plenty of these people are very well off, making six figure incomes. My own stepdad wiped out his entire tax obligation in 2009, and he's a wealthy 1%er.

94 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:38:37pm

re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar

I thought he gave away the money his dad left to him.

That's one way of looking at it, I guess...

95 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:38:53pm

Okay, this was pretty funny for me but I was at a Super Bowl party two years ago. It was the Saints-Colts one. Anyhow, as you probably recall the Who played that year during halftime and as they were playing Baba O'Reilly, this girl asks me "Is this Teen Spirit(referring to Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit) Now I'm 25 and was only four when that album came out and this girl couldn't have been that much younger than me and I was pretty stunned by that.

96 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:39:19pm

re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar

I thought he gave away the money his dad left to him.

After his dad already helped him become rich. And you can't disinherit your name and connections.

97 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:39:24pm
98 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:39:48pm

Keith's enjoying playing with his favorite detractors tonight.


99 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:40:00pm

re: #98 darthstar

Say whatever you want about Keith, but his Twitter feed is hilarious tonight. Haha.

100 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:40:21pm

re: #97 Gus

Image: Leder1.jpg

Values voter!

101 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:40:26pm

re: #97 Gus

Image: Leder1.jpg

I wonder what her major in college was.

102 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:40:56pm

re: #79 Targetpractice

Kirk, he was the bald one, right?

//

...well...
At least you didn't ask if he was the one who fought Dark Vader.
(almost missed the sarc tags due to mild aneurysm :)

103 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:41:18pm

re: #96 recusancy

After his dad already helped him become rich. And you can't disinherit your name and connections.

Though he sure as hell is giving it a good try these days.

104 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:41:19pm

re: #99 Lidane

Say whatever you want about Keith, but his Twitter feed is hilarious tonight:

[Embedded content]

That made me put on Little Miss Strange by the Jimi Hendrix Experience. Keith calling her "Little Miss Fascist." So I'm happy.

105 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:41:25pm

re: #100 Mocking Jay

Values voter!

That's a bonafide Republican donor.

106 jaunte  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:41:34pm

re: #99 Lidane

"America's Takers," like just about everyone in the military? Thanks Michelle.

107 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:42:06pm

Who is he?

108 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:42:16pm

re: #106 jaunte

"America's Takers," like just about everyone in the military? Thanks Michelle.

Anchor-baby said what?

109 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:42:19pm

re: #102 Reverend Mother Ramallo

...well...
At least you didn't ask if he was the one who fought Dark Vader.
(almost missed the sarc tags due to mild aneurysm :)

Heh, only a true fan would get a "bald Kirk" joke. Or jokes about girdles. Or ripping shirts. Or talking...like this...as if you're...constipated.

110 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:42:23pm

If they really respected "America's makers", that sure as hell isn't a candidate who benefits financially from American jobs going overseas.

111 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:42:51pm

re: #94 Mocking Jay

That's one way of looking at it, I guess...

re: #96 recusancy

After his dad already helped him become rich. And you can't disinherit your name and connections.

He didn't have to work during college!!. OH NOES!!!
[Link: www.politifact.com...]

112 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:43:01pm

re: #106 jaunte

"America's Takers," like just about everyone in the military? Thanks Michelle.

I still can't believe these morons have swallowed Ayn Rand's bullshit whole.

Takers vs. Moochers? Why not start whining about collectivists? Pfft.

113 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:43:13pm

re: #109 Targetpractice

Heh, only a true fan would get a "bald Kirk" joke. Or jokes about girdles. Or ripping shirts. Or talking...like this...as if you're...constipated.

You know, I was born in '76. TOS was long done by the time I was born, but I still managed to see them all by the time I was ten.

114 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:43:17pm

re: #97 Gus

Image: Leder1.jpg

Context? I don't recognize these people (except possibly as generic extras in the pool party scene in "Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy")

115 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:43:29pm

re: #107 Amory Blaine

Who is he?

[Link: lmgtfy.com...]

116 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:43:43pm

Surprisingly (to me at least), the Great Orange Satan has not covered this implosion in the slightest degree.

Tomorrow should be funny.

117 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:43:43pm

re: #71 erik_t

There's profound honor in Commodore Perry and most of his works, and associating his statements and philosophies with some bullshit political dicktrip makes me sick. I won't downding it because that would give it legitimacy.

I'm done with the pity too, btw. Troll or idiot, I don't care, some people and their nonsense arguments aren't worth my time.

Indeed.

Commodore Perry didn't tell me that Obama was going to take "In God We Trust" of the money.

118 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:44:26pm

re: #92 erik_t

I don't agree, as others have taken lofty lines and used them in such a fashion. Nor are you the boss of me.

119 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:44:31pm

re: #101 darthstar

I wonder what her major in college was.

At BYU, he graduated with highest honors and gave a speech at graduation. He got accepted to a recently created dual-degree program in law and business at Harvard.
[Link: www.politifact.com...]

120 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:44:35pm
Ann Romney once explained that neither she nor her husband worked while at Brigham Young University, because Romney “had enough of an investment from stock that we could sell off a little at a time.”

Yeah! Why can't people with all these Student Loans just sell off some of their stock! DUH!

121 alpuz  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:44:56pm

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

You're right. But I've had my fun, so I deleted the post.

Real Big Fun, DF? Ya gotta be stoked about that. So much big fun you deleted the post. That will show 'em you're the man in control.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:45:11pm

re: #65 Gus

America should be ashamed for having 47% of a population that can't pay taxes.

Think about that.

They do pay taxes. They just don't pay income tax. Distinct difference there.

123 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:45:12pm

re: #119 Cannadian Club Akbar

At BYU, he graduated with highest honors and gave a speech at graduation. He got accepted to a recently created dual-degree program in law and business at Harvard.
[Link: www.politifact.com...]

Not the douche in the purple shirt...the lusty twenty-something on his arm.

124 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:45:14pm

re: #117 The Ghost of a Flea

Indeed.

Commodore Perry didn't tell me that Obama was going to take "In God We Trust" of the money.

Neither did I.

125 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:45:18pm

re: #113 Mocking Jay

You know, I was born in '76. TOS was long done by the time I was born, but I still managed to see them all by the time I was ten.

Born in '84, grew up on the Next Generation. First Trek movie I remember seeing in a theater was ST:VI

126 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:45:30pm

re: #115 recusancy

[Link: lmgtfy.com...]

Ha ha. No I meant this guy:

re: #97 Gus

Image: Leder1.jpg

Who is he?

127 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:45:51pm

re: #111 Cannadian Club Akbar

re: #96 recusancy

He didn't have to work during college!!. OH NOES!!!
[Link: www.politifact.com...]

You realize you're linking to an article that rates that as "half-true," right?

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:46:06pm

re: #84 Gus

We're paying one person 18 million a year for sitting in a chair.

Does he do it well?

129 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:46:11pm

re: #123 darthstar

Not the douche in the purple shirt...the lusty twenty-something on his arm.

My bad.

130 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:46:45pm

re: #116 erik_t

Surprisingly (to me at least), the Great Orange Satan has not covered this implosion in the slightest degree.

Tomorrow should be funny.

Markos got a few zings in:

131 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:46:52pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

Does he do it well?

Mariah Carey

I voted yes. ;)

132 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:46:55pm

It takes a pretty big man to quote a dead American hero in the dubious defense of a vapid piece of shit who claims 47% of the country is a bunch of worthless slacking parasites.

I'm getting angry, and some people just aren't worth that much of your time, so I'm going to bed. Good night, everyone.

133 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:46:56pm

re: #127 Mocking Jay

You realize you're linking to an article that rates that as "half-true," right?

Yep. Try reading it.

134 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:47:39pm

It sounds better if you hear him say it directly

135 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:47:51pm

re: #130 Lidane

Markos got a few zings in:

[Embedded content]

Have to disagree with Markos with the Santorum remark. Santorum actually believes the crazy so-con bullshit. Mitt just says it to make himself look more "severely conservative."

136 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:47:53pm

re: #109 Targetpractice

Heh, only a true fan would get a "bald Kirk" joke. Or jokes about girdles. Or ripping shirts. Or talking...like this...as if you're...constipated.

Oh that's Kirk's hair. He bought it, so it's his!

137 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:48:14pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

Does he do it well?

You need to check this out. Pretty cool.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

138 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:48:17pm

re: #136 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Oh that's Kirk's hair. He bought it, so it's his!

It's a dead tribble.

139 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:48:17pm

Be Somebody

140 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:48:22pm

re: #121 alpuz

Real Big Fun, DF? Ya gotta be stoked about that. So much big fun you deleted the post. That will show 'em you're the man in control.

What the Hell else am I gonna do? you guys all make fun of Mitt Romney, which I don't enjoy, but I'm a bad guy for using a parody to mock Barack Obama. I've got to reply somehow, I'm not going to just sit here and take it.

141 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:48:26pm

re: #133 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yep. Try reading it.

i did two hardd to reed big werds an stuph

142 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:48:37pm
143 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:48:44pm

re: #133 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yep. Try reading it.

What point are you arguing?

144 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:48:53pm

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would SO DO Mary Anne.

Mary Ann from back in the day was/is more my speed; Ginger just seemed too high maintenance.

Both actresses haven't really aged that well, but at least Dawn Wells has that love of Mary Jane going for her.

145 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:49:01pm

I got ads from this turd on the page:

Billionaire Ricketts spending $12 million on ads for Romney, GOP

Joe Ricketts, the founder of TD Ameritrade Inc. and owner of the Chicago Cubs, is spending a total of $12 million on advertising supporting Mitt Romney and congressional Republican races, The Wall Street Journal reported Monday.

Ricketts will fund the advertising blitz through his super-PAC, the Ending Spending Action Fund.

146 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:49:04pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

What the Hell else am I gonna do? you guys all make fun of Mitt Romney, which I don't enjoy, but I'm a bad guy for using a parody to mock Barack Obama. I've got to reply somehow, I'm not going to just sit here and take it.

I guess defending Mitt Romney is out of the question, since he has become indefensible.

147 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:49:23pm

re: #123 darthstar

Not the douche in the purple shirt...the lusty twenty-something on his arm.

She was raised in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, and attended the private Kingswood School there, where she dated Mitt Romney. She converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1966. She attended Brigham Young University (BYU), married Mitt Romney, and in 1975 she received a Bachelor of Arts degree in French.

As First Lady of Massachusetts, she served as the governor's liaison for federal faith-based initiatives. She was involved in a number of children's charities, including Operation Kids, and was an active participant in her husband's 2008 presidential run.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

FREEDOM FRIES!! GUS, YOU WITH ME!!!
/

148 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:50:00pm

Bwahahaha.... when it rains it pours. Just checked to see how the ugly-right is handling the Romney campaign meltdown, and noticed VDARE is having another one of their fund raisers, with a splash page devoted to lamenting Romney catering to latinos.

Classic Brimelow:

Forget the Hispanic Hype—the untold story of this campaign is that Romney is doing poorly among whitesthe group known, until the 1965 Immigration Act, as “Americans.

Brimelow thinks that Romney ought to campaign for more of the American (explicitly "white") vote.

The Ugly-right and the Country-Club Republicans deserve each other.

149 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:50:01pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

What the Hell else am I gonna do? you guys all make fun of Mitt Romney, which I don't enjoy, but I'm a bad guy for using a parody to mock Barack Obama. I've got to reply somehow, I'm not going to just sit here and take it.

Seriously Dark, are you supporting Romney or just resigned to voting for him? Which is it?

150 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:50:04pm

re: #147 Cannadian Club Akbar

Got too! FREEDUM FRIES!

151 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:50:21pm

re: #147 Cannadian Club Akbar

She was raised in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, and attended the private Kingswood School there, where she dated Mitt Romney. She converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1966. She attended Brigham Young University (BYU), married Mitt Romney, and in 1975 she received a Bachelor of Arts degree in French.

As First Lady of Massachusetts, she served as the governor's liaison for federal faith-based initiatives. She was involved in a number of children's charities, including Operation Kids, and was an active participant in her husband's 2008 presidential run.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

FREEDOM FRIES!! GUS, YOU WITH ME!!!
/

He's not talking about Anne, dumb-ass.

152 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:50:25pm

re: #145 Kragar

I got ads from this turd on the page:

Billionaire Ricketts spending $12 million on ads for Romney, GOP

You know who's opinion I would really like to hear on how to make this country successful? The guy who runs the Chicago Cubs. No one knows success like them.

153 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:50:25pm

Haha:

If you don't know, Jim Messina is Obama's campaign manager.

154 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:50:26pm

re: #143 recusancy

What point are you arguing?

Mitt actually made his money.

155 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:51:09pm

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

You're right. But I've had my fun, so I deleted the post.

(sigh)

156 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:51:17pm

re: #154 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mitt actually made his money.

Yeah, because the point is all about how Mitt didn't make his money.

157 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:51:30pm

Dear Republicans. You should have picked Huntsman. And that's coming from an open minded atheist that doesn't give a crap if you're a Mormon.

158 jaunte  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:51:38pm

Mitt made most of his money by forcing other people to borrow it.

159 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:52:23pm

re: #154 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mitt actually made his money.

Ya after being given a great education, homes, cars and connections. Sure.

160 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:52:30pm

re: #152 JamesWI

You know who's opinion I would really like to hear on how to make this country successful? The guy who runs the Chicago Cubs. No one knows success like them.

Heh to be fair Ricketts only recently bought them but I too was tempted to make a Cubs joke.

161 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:52:40pm

re: #144 Gert Fröbe

Mary Ann from back in the day was/is more my speed; Ginger just seemed too high maintenance.

Both actresses haven't really aged that well, but at least Dawn Wells has that love of Mary Jane going for her.

Trivia: Dawn Wells was the only member of the cast to make sure she got paid for residuals in her contract. She was the only cast member to receive any royalties after it went into syndication.

162 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:52:51pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Wanna play with Gilligan’s Island reference? Here's one for ya:

"Just sit right back and you'll here a tale,
of America's stumble and trip.
That started in a Hawaiian port,
of Obama the Liberal Drip!
of Obama the Liberal Drip!"

Haven't you learned by now that you can't just memory-hole a post around here if someone quotes you in response? You might as well just leave 'em up, because these "deletions" make you look like a coward who can't or won't defend what you say.

It's a subversion of what the edit function should be about, as well.

163 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:52:52pm
164 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:53:09pm

re: #163 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Siempre.

165 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:53:14pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

What the Hell else am I gonna do? you guys all make fun of Mitt Romney, which I don't enjoy, but I'm a bad guy for using a parody to mock Barack Obama. I've got to reply somehow, I'm not going to just sit here and take it.

We're only mocking Mitt Romney because he's a disaster of a candidate. Actually, I'm quite happy that he's the GOP's standard bearer. Someone needs to lead the lemmings into the sea.

You choose to stand by him in the face of his repeatedly demonstrated incompetence as a candidate (which would be magnified ten-fold if he were to acquire the White House). That's on you. If you want people who will say nice things about Mitt and reassure you, log into your freerepublic or redstate account.

166 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:53:35pm

re: #163 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Eloel.

167 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:53:47pm

re: #146 JamesWI

I guess defending Mitt Romney is out of the question, since he has become indefensible.

All that ends up being is me getting pounded from pillar to post, yelled at and downdinged. I'm just one guy, and I really want to come here to enjoy myself. But if its just going to be the kind of "I hate or pity you" type of hostility, then perhaps its time I took a leave of absence for the remainder of the election season. Would the group rather I just did that?

168 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:53:58pm

That really wasn't McMansion. Yikes. You should see that place.

169 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:54:06pm

In case you haven't seen the map of where the 47% live

[Link: twitpic.com...]

But I'm sure many of these folks will still vote for Romney because, despite the fact that they may be "moochers", they rationalize their own existence away and blame others. It's the "keep the Government off my Medicare" mentality.

OK! Off to bed and time to get ready for Rosh Hashanah II: The Sequel. (I really like the concept of one day of Rosh Hashanah. In fact, that's why I turn the electronics back on after sunset on RH I.)

170 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:54:20pm

Castles.

171 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:54:24pm

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

The Hawaiian part fit well and its has the benefit of being true. I'm not a birther, after all.

No, just a coward who can't back up the shit that you spew sometimes, so you try to memory-hole it when others challenge you on it.

That dog don't hunt...

172 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:54:30pm

Made of sand.

173 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:54:36pm

re: #170 Gus

Castles.

I'll take two please.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:54:45pm

re: #157 Gus

Dear Republicans. You should have picked Huntsman. And that's coming from an open minded atheist that doesn't give a crap if you're a Mormon.

Huntsman would have lost dramatically...but damn, I would have paid good money to see those debates.

(Isn't Huntsman also a Mormon?)

175 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:55:02pm

re: #157 Gus

Dear Republicans. You should have picked Huntsman. And that's coming from an open minded atheist that doesn't give a crap if you're a Mormon.

Huntsman committed the unpardonable sin of working for Barack Obama. He never stood a chance.

If the GOP primaries had a do-over today with the same slate of candidates, I wonder who'd win.

176 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:55:07pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

Giving valid reasons why you support your candidate would be nice.

177 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:55:10pm

re: #173 Varek Raith

I'll take two please.

I know. I fess up. I'm working on one now that's worth about 2 mil.

178 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:55:38pm

re: #175 Lidane

Huntsman committed the unpardonable sin of working for Barack Obama. He never stood a chance.

If the GOP primaries had a do-over today with the same slate of candidates, I wonder who'd win.

Christine O'Donnell would have a better chance than Romney today.

179 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:55:38pm

re: #177 Gus

I know. I fess up. I'm working on one now that's worth about 2 mil.

Cool beans.
I'll pay ya 200 bucks for one.
/

180 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:55:42pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

All that ends up being is me getting pounded from pillar to post, yelled at and downdinged. I'm just one guy, and I really want to come here to enjoy myself. But if its just going to be the kind of "I hate or pity you" type of hostility, then perhaps its time I took a leave of absence for the remainder of the election season. Would the group rather I just did that?

The reason is because you don't actually defend him with facts or logic, because you have none. You simply repeat the same old lines about how you hate liberals, unions are destroying everything, and denying health care to the sick is somehow a good thing.

181 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:55:44pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

All that ends up being is me getting pounded from pillar to post, yelled at and downdinged. I'm just one guy, and I really want to come here to enjoy myself. But if its just going to be the kind of "I hate or pity you" type of hostility, then perhaps its time I took a leave of absence for the remainder of the election season. Would the group rather I just did that?

We'd rather you defend your positions. If you can't defend them then say so but you duck almost every question that is the least bit hard.

182 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:55:46pm

Sometimes 2.6. Had one house which was for a neurosurgeon. Bachelor.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:56:05pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

All that ends up being is me getting pounded from pillar to post, yelled at and downdinged. I'm just one guy, and I really want to come here to enjoy myself. But if its just going to be the kind of "I hate or pity you" type of hostility, then perhaps its time I took a leave of absence for the remainder of the election season. Would the group rather I just did that?

I wouldn't. And I'll say...in between snickering at Mitt's giant faux pas...that I think your continuing GOP affiliation is getting too many folks around here a little too worked up.

184 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:56:11pm

Freep is concerned that conservative evangelicals are leaving Romney

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

To: Alex Murphy

Any ‘conservative’ that would vote for this socialist is a filthy traitor who should be lined up in front of a firing squad.

Sorry. I just cannot believe that many people would EVER vote for Jokebama

25 posted on Monday, September 17, 2012 7:59:14 PM by Viennacon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

185 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:56:17pm

re: #178 darthstar

Christine O'Donnell would have a better chance than Romney today.

Well yeah, when you've got witchcraft working for you, its easy.

186 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:56:23pm

re: #179 Varek Raith

Cool beans.
I'll pay ya 200 bucks for one.
/

My usual charge was 2500 for plans.

187 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:56:27pm

re: #48 Dark_Falcon


"Don't give up the ship! Fight her till she sinks!"

You're really gonna ride the SS GOP down to Davy Jones' Locker this election season?

You're smarter than that and there's nothing to be gained for yourself or anyone else to do so.

188 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:56:42pm

re: #176 dragonath

Giving valid reasons why you support your candidate would be nice.

This is what everyone has asked for. Nothing more really.

189 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:56:48pm

re: #154 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mitt actually made his money.

After being given American Motors stock worth the equivalent of $400K in today's money and being given a zero interest loan by daddy for the purchase of his first house. After being give the best private primary and secondary education money can buy. He had all the benefits of being raised in wealth and privilege, with all the connections that come with being the son of a governor and auto tycoon. He never struggled, and learned how to leverage his considerable monetary advantage so that it could work for him.

All that would be fine if he and his supporters had the slightest clue as to how much of an advantage the man has had in life, yet here you sit, demonstrating epic levels of intellectual dumb-fuckery.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:56:56pm

re: #169 ReamWorks SKG

In case you haven't seen the map of where the 47% live

[Link: twitpic.com...]

But I'm sure many of these folks will still vote for Romney because, despite the fact that they may be "moochers", they rationalize their own existence away and blame others. It's the "keep the Government off my Medicare" mentality.

OK! Off to bed and time to get ready for Rosh Hashanah II: The Sequel. (I really like the concept of one day of Rosh Hashanah. In fact, that's why I turn the electronics back on after sunset on RH I.)

Idaho? I thought they all made money in potatoes up there.

191 Petero1818  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:57:07pm

re: #178 darthstar

Christine O'Donnell would have a better chance than Romney today.

I forgot about her. I miss her. She was fun.

192 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:57:08pm

re: #186 Gus

My usual charge was 2500 for plans.

Neat.
I like architecture.

193 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:57:21pm

re: #184 SpaceJesus

Freep is concerned that conservative evangelicals are leaving Romney

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Firing squad, huh? I think the nature of this whole election thing escapes some people.

194 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:57:35pm

I'm actually pretty conservative. And as a "successful" small businessman, I hate taxes as much as the next guy.

But Romney's just out of touch. I've voted for many a Republican. In fact, I'm doing a campaign website (as a favor) for a friend of mine who's running for a local Republican office.

So don't see this as a knee-jerk partisan thing. Look objectively at this guy, his record, and what he says. He's not a good candidate.

195 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:57:47pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

Taking a leave of absence isn't the answer. Critical thinking and actually giving these issues some thought would be nice. Instead of just defaulting to defending Romney because he has an (R) after his name or blindly quoting NRO, try articulating an actual case for voting for him.

196 jaunte  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:57:48pm

re: #176 dragonath

Giving valid reasons why you support your candidate would be nice.

That's the thing. Stay and make the argument.

197 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:06pm

re: #189 goddamnedfrank

Wow. Well your point settled that, didn't it?

198 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:10pm

re: #76 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

I'm too young to feel so old. Jeezus.

You know, now that I think about it, it's entirely possible that I could meet full-grown grown-ass adults who have never heard of Captain Kirk.

The clock is a cruel mistress.

Nah, because Paramount and JJ Abrams made sure that the world still knows of James Tiberius Kirk.

199 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:21pm

re: #181 recusancy

We'd rather you defend your positions. If you can't defend them then say so but you duck almost every question that is the least bit hard.

I'm tired of having to play defense all the time. It wins no converts and its hard. No matter what I say, however well I try to say it, all i get is bogged down by details and hostile questions.

200 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:22pm

re: #192 Varek Raith

Neat.
I like architecture.

Site plan. Floor plans. Elevations. Sections.

I would draft when I was a kid for fun. Picked up the pencil at 6.

201 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:25pm

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

You're right. But I've had my fun, so I deleted the post.

Coward.

202 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:26pm

re: #184 SpaceJesus

Freep is concerned that conservative evangelicals are leaving Romney

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

They sure do fanatize about violence a lot. I mean wow really tie up to a firing squad post? For voting for Obama? That's just not a normal reaction. I understand disappointment and even anger with someone voting a way you don't like but that rhetoric really is how a deranged individual talks.

203 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:27pm

re: #184 SpaceJesus

Like Brimelow and the VDARE-ites, they don't even want to pretend anymore that Mitt is one of them.

Problem is, for the Romney campaign they have to believe that all those little corners of atavism and right-wing-dom really are for Romney and somehow he will build a winning coalition out of the different flavors of reactionaries.

Good luck with that.

On second thought - no, no good luck with that.

204 alpuz  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:41pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Really? So that's what you chose to do?

Fuggit.. I'm going to bed. I've recently re-found mountain biking and my legs hurt. I'm hittin' the hay. Good Night.

205 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:41pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

All that ends up being is me getting pounded from pillar to post, yelled at and downdinged. I'm just one guy, and I really want to come here to enjoy myself. But if its just going to be the kind of "I hate or pity you" type of hostility, then perhaps its time I took a leave of absence for the remainder of the election season. Would the group rather I just did that?

I'd rather you grew the fuck up and stopped the self pitying bullshit.

206 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:58:56pm

re: #198 Gert Fröbe

Nah, because Paramount and JJ Abrams made sure that the world still knows of James Tiberius Kirk.

You dare speaketh his name?!?!

207 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:59:05pm

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't. And I'll say...in between snickering at Mitt's giant faux pas...that I think your continuing GOP affiliation is getting too many folks around here a little too worked up.

It isn't the fact that he is still affiliated with the GOP that riles me up. It's that he can't provide a single REAL reason for why he is.

He spends most of his time here joining us in making fun of the "crazies" on his side (The Limbaughs, Bryan Fischers, and Dim Hofts of the world), but then votes for people who agree with those crazies on 99.99% of the things they're talking about. And when asked why, all he can respond with is some bullshit about how unions are evil, and how since Chicago has experience with corrupt Democrats, that means all Democrats suck.

208 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:59:14pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

What the Hell else am I gonna do? you guys all make fun of Mitt Romney, which I don't enjoy, but I'm a bad guy for using a parody to mock Barack Obama. I've got to reply somehow, I'm not going to just sit here and take it.

Mitt Romney is making fun of Mitt Romney, we don't have to do a thing. Your Obama jokes are terribly forced.

209 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:59:21pm

re: #206 Varek Raith

You dare speaketh his name?!?!

Who?

JJ Abrams?

*ducks*

210 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:59:41pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

I'm tired of having to play defense all the time. It wins no converts and its hard.

The other alternative is simply to stop engaging in the political discussions. Though if that is the main reason you are here that could prove a bit difficult.

211 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:59:41pm

re: #206 Varek Raith

You dare speaketh his name?!?!

I dare! The new movie was good!

212 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 9:59:46pm

re: #209 Mocking Jay

Who?

JJ Abrams?

*ducks*

Here, have a photon torpedo.

213 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:00:09pm

re: #212 Varek Raith

Here, have a photon torpedo.

Evasive maneuvers!

214 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:00:26pm

re: #211 Targetpractice

I dare! The new movie was good!

They cast Scotty and Bones well.
I'll give them that.

215 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:00:42pm

I'm gonna cut DF some slack because he knows his candidate is losing big time aye? ;)

216 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:00:42pm

re: #206 Varek Raith

You dare speaketh his name?!?!

If you stand in front of a mirror and say his name 5 times, a lens flare appears.

217 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:00:43pm

re: #125 Targetpractice

Born in '84, grew up on the Next Generation. First Trek movie I remember seeing in a theater was ST:VI

The Undiscovered Country was a great swan song for the entire original cast; Kirk had his own in Generations.

218 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:00:51pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

I'm tired of having to play defense all the time. It wins no converts and its hard.

That's what politics is. You stake out a position and then you say why you took it. You just say you have a position then when pressed either disappear or link to NRO. What are you FOR? We know what you're against.

Defense does win converts. But yes it is hard. Especially if you don't have one.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:01:01pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

I'm tired of having to play defense all the time. It wins no converts and its hard.

As someone who was a Democrat on LGF back in the day, trying to win converts in a room full of the other guys really doesn't get you much of anywhere.

My strategy was to let most of it glide by me, and join in conversations that I could participate in without getting cussed out.

220 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:01:15pm

re: #217 Gert Fröbe

The Undiscovered Country was a great swan song for the entire original cast; Kirk had his own in Generations.

What is this "Generations" that you speak of?

221 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:01:39pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

They cast Scotty and Bones well.
I'll give them that.

Come on, man, Zachary Quinto was a cool Spock.

222 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:01:53pm

re: #217 Gert Fröbe

The Undiscovered Country was a great swan song for the entire original cast; Kirk had his own in Generations.

I thought Generations was great until Kirk showed up. Then it got shatastic.

223 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:01:54pm

re: #221 Targetpractice

Come on, man, Zachary Quinto was a cool Spock.

I'm still debating that.
:P

224 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:02:07pm

re: #202 HappyWarrior

Speaking of deranged right wing rhetoric, here's more Brimelow:

American politics now are profoundly unstable. In effect, the Obama Administration has been (to put it brutally) a Minority Occupation Government. At all costs, the Left must keep the historic American nation from uniting—which it alarmingly began to do (no thanks to the GOP leadership) in the 2010 election.

This explains the mounting hysteria of the Left. American politics are now profoundly unstable. Eventually, the Left may succeed in Electing A New People—but for the next few election cycles, whites still cast by far the largest proportion of votes. And the white vote is tipping away from the Left.

Recently, there has been a systematic series of Leftist campaigns against anyone in American journalism suspected of deviationism—sometimes very prominent. Their success rate is appallingly high.

The Roll of Honor:

Lou Dobbs
Glenn Beck
Pat Buchanan
Rush Limbaugh
John Derbyshire (now writing for VDARE.com!)
Naomi Schaefer Riley

This is a sign of delusion.

225 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:02:19pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

What the Hell else am I gonna do? you guys all make fun of Mitt Romney, which I don't enjoy, but I'm a bad guy for using a parody to mock Barack Obama. I've got to reply somehow, I'm not going to just sit here and take it.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:02:30pm

re: #202 HappyWarrior

They sure do fanatize about violence a lot. I mean wow really tie up to a firing squad post? For voting for Obama? That's just not a normal reaction. I understand disappointment and even anger with someone voting a way you don't like but that rhetoric really is how a deranged individual talks.

They've gone beyond...just beyond. If you convince yourself that the other's guy's guy is not just a poor candidate, but actively working with your enemies to destroy your country, talk like that starts to seem sane.

227 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:02:52pm

re: #223 Varek Raith

I'm still debating that.
:P

Your refusal to acknowledge how good his performance was is highly illogical.

228 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:03:00pm

Late here. Nighty all. D_F, see you in the bottom comments. We'll have drinks.:)

229 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:03:03pm

re: #221 Targetpractice

Come on, man, Zachary Quinto was a cool Spock.

He was an awesome Spock. And Simon Pegg's Scotty didn't work for me as well as I had hoped it would. Too goofy, I think.

230 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:03:05pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

As someone who was a Democrat on LGF back in the day, trying to win converts in a room full of the other guys really doesn't get you much of anywhere.

My strategy was to let most of it glide by me, and join in conversations that I could participate in without getting cussed out.

You're right. But that's why, frankly, I'm actively thinking that I should just up and leave, at least for a time. Every third night's a fight, and I'm not having fun here anymore.

231 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:03:44pm

re: #161 Kragar

Trivia: Dawn Wells was the only member of the cast to make sure she got paid for residuals in her contract. She was the only cast member to receive any royalties after it went into syndication.

Smart lady, though I would have thought Alan Hale Jr. and Jim Backus, being old hands in showbiz even then, would have done the same.

I guess such arrangements weren't exactly common back then, though.

232 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:03:49pm

re: #227 Targetpractice

Your refusal to acknowledge how good his performance was is highly illogical.

Because Abrams make Hulk SMASH!

233 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:03:53pm

Chris Pine will always be Darwin Tremor first and foremost.

234 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:03:59pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

I'm tired of having to play defense all the time. It wins no converts and its hard.

Winning converts isn't the point. And politics IS hard. It should be hard. Mitt Romney is running for POTUS, not a local dog catcher, for fuck's sake.

If you want to support him, that's fine. Support him. But articulate WHY you support him. Defaulting to Mitt being on "your team" isn't enough. He's running to run the country. That deserves real consideration, and real effort on your part. Defend him if you want, but make a real case for him. Mindless talking points and slams against liberals don't cut it.

235 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:04:01pm

re: #223 Varek Raith

I'm still debating that.
:P

There will never, ever be another Nimoy.
But the new guy did a pretty good job, I think.

236 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:04:15pm

re: #229 Mocking Jay

He was an awesome Spock. And Simon Pegg's Scotty didn't work for me as well as I had hoped it would. Too goofy, I think.

I think that's partly because he didn't have much screen time to really work the character in more. Hopefully the new film will allow us to actually see him less...well...manic.

237 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:04:24pm

What you see here is Romney being embarrassed. He feels shame. He's dripping flop sweat.

238 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:04:47pm

re: #170 Gus

Castles.

re: #172 Gus

Made of sand.

Slips into the sea, eventually.

239 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:05:10pm

re: #237 Gus

What you see here is Romney being embarrassed. He feels shame. He's dripping flop sweat.

Shame for getting caught on video, or shame for what he said?

240 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:05:17pm

re: #238 Gert Fröbe

re: #172 Gus

Slips into the sea, eventually.

241 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:05:20pm

re: #231 Gert Fröbe

Smart lady, though I would have thought Alan Hale Jr. and Jim Backus, being old hands in showbiz, would have done the same.

I guess such arrangements weren't exactly common back then, though.

She was married to an agent who advised her to include it. The TV execs thought it was funny at the time and figured the show would flop and they would never have to pay anything out, so they agreed.

242 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:05:21pm

re: #233 Kragar

Chris Pine will always be Darwin Tremor first and foremost.

I will always love that movie forever and ever for what it did to Ben Affleck.

243 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:05:28pm

re: #239 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Shame for getting caught on video, or shame for what he said?

Yes.

244 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:05:47pm

Being a scifi fan sucks.
All the scifi shows get cancelled. The ones that don't, suck.

245 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:05:56pm

re: #239 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Shame for getting caught on video, or shame for what he said?

For what he said. Although with Romney probably not.

246 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:06:07pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

I'm tired of having to play defense all the time. It wins no converts and its hard. No matter what I say, however well I try to say it, all i get is bogged down by details and hostile questions.

What you're defending matters more than your defense of it.

247 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:06:12pm

re: #237 Gus

What you see here is Romney being embarrassed. He feels shame. He's dripping flop sweat.

Fine, good. More's the better. If he knows he's screwed up, then maybe he can make some changes for the better. Drop the DERP and focus, Mitt!

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:06:27pm

re: #207 JamesWI

It isn't the fact that he is still affiliated with the GOP that riles me up. It's that he can't provide a single REAL reason for why he is.

He spends most of his time here joining us in making fun of the "crazies" on his side (The Limbaughs, Bryan Fischers, and Dim Hofts of the world), but then votes for people who agree with those crazies on 99.99% of the things they're talking about. And when asked why, all he can respond with is some bullshit about how unions are evil, and how since Chicago has experience with corrupt Democrats, that means all Democrats suck.

Thing is, I really don't give a damn. What's the goal? To get D_F to vote for Obama? To get him to crumble and admit we've outargued him? To get him to leave?

The level of hostility I'm seeing toward him is just silly and disproportionate. I know he's driving some people nuts, but like I said, I really don't care.

I mean, Jesus, people, I'll argue with Dark about this or that, but basically this boils down to:

[Link: xkcd.com...]

"Someone on the Internet is a partisan Republican."

249 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:06:38pm

re: #244 Varek Raith

Being a scifi fan sucks.
All the scifi shows get cancelled. The ones that don't, suck.

Yes, but now you have the entire SyFy channel to use as a torture and interrogation device.

250 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:06:49pm

re: #242 Mocking Jay

I will always love that movie forever and ever for what it did to Ben Affleck.

251 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:07:00pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Fine, good. More's the better. If he knows he's screwed up, then maybe he can make some changes for the better. Drop the DERP and focus, Mitt!

Judging by the content of his presser, he's not making changes for the better. He's now going to run on the ideas that he tried to make sure were only said behind closed doors.

252 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:07:10pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Fine, good. More's the better. If he knows he's screwed up, then maybe he can make some changes for the better. Drop the DERP and focus, Mitt!

That's cool. All I can say is that Obama makes the best squadron commander. He wins.

253 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:07:11pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

They cast Scotty and Bones well.
I'll give them that.

That's because both Simon Pegg and Karl Urban are unrepentant fanboys. That counts for something.

The rest of the cast did fine, I thought. I especially liked Pike.

254 jvic  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:07:28pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

...I've got to reply somehow, I'm not going to just sit here and take it.

Why not ignore the people whose opinions or behavior you don't respect? It works well for me at my home site.

255 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:07:29pm
256 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:08:17pm

re: #230 Dark_Falcon

You're right. But that's why, frankly, I'm actively thinking that I should just up and leave, at least for a time. Every third night's a fight, and I'm not having fun here anymore.

That makes me sad. Do what's best for you, but...bleah.

257 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:08:28pm

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

They've gone beyond...just beyond. If you convince yourself that the other's guy's guy is not just a poor candidate, but actively working with your enemies to destroy your country, talk like that starts to seem sane.

Yeah, I just don't think like that I guess. Delusion as it's been said one hell of a drug.

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:08:58pm

re: #239 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Shame for getting caught on video, or shame for what he said?

I don't think he's ashamed of what he said, I think it's what he thinks. Maybe. Who the hell knows? I honestly cannot get a handle on the man.

259 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:09:05pm
Sure, there are some government programs that cultivate patterns of dependency in some people. I’d put federal disability payments and unemployment insurance in this category.

Well, speaking as someone on a disability, fuck you, asshole!

I'm so glad I live in Canada. There's damn few of these heartless bastards.

260 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:09:15pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

All that ends up being is me getting pounded from pillar to post, yelled at and downdinged. I'm just one guy, and I really want to come here to enjoy myself. But if its just going to be the kind of "I hate or pity you" type of hostility, then perhaps its time I took a leave of absence for the remainder of the election season. Would the group rather I just did that?

No, but we would like some intellectual honesty from you, not just GOP/RW talking points. Make your cases, pro and con, for Romney and Obama, explain them clearly, and take a principled stand.

Don't be a coward.

261 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:09:24pm

re: #253 Lidane

That's because both Simon Pegg and Karl Urban are unrepentant fanboys. That counts for something.

The rest of the cast did fine, I thought. I especially liked Pike.

Think if I have any real criticism, it was watching Eric Bana chew scenery like there was no tomorrow.

262 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:09:24pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Fine, good. More's the better. If he knows he's screwed up, then maybe he can make some changes for the better. Drop the DERP and focus, Mitt!

You said yourself that he stands for nothing but his own ambition to be President. You'll be happier if you just admit that he's a terrible, atrocious candidate. The angst you're feeling comes from lying to and trying to deceive yourself about this one fundamental, undeniable fact.

263 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:09:29pm

re: #249 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Yes, but now you have the entire SyFy channel to use as a torture and interrogation device.

Don't know if I should downding you, or run away in tears.
SyFy channel...mumble, stupid, grumble...

264 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:09:56pm

re: #225 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

I saw Twisted Sister with Metallica in 1984.

265 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:10:33pm

BRING BACK FARSCAPE AND FIREFLY OR THE PLANET GETS IT!!!!

266 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:10:36pm

re: #236 Targetpractice

I think that's partly because he didn't have much screen time to really work the character in more. Hopefully the new film will allow us to actually see him less...well...manic.

The reboot film was an origin story that had to work in the entire original bridge crew of the Enterprise, plus Pike, AND it had to tell a story on top of that. Way too much to do in two hours.

Hopefully now that the characters have been introduced the next film will be better. I liked the first one a lot (*ducks*) but it definitely had room for improvement.

267 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:10:52pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Thing is, I really don't give a damn. What's the goal? To get D_F to vote for Obama? To get him to crumble and admit we've outargued him? To get him to leave?

The level of hostility I'm seeing toward him is just silly and disproportionate. I know he's driving some people nuts, but like I said, I really don't care.

I mean, Jesus, people, I'll argue with Dark about this or that, but basically this boils down to:

[Link: xkcd.com...]

"Someone on the Internet is a partisan Republican."

I don't think it's that ridiculous to expect someone here to at least try to back up the things they say with more than just "He's on my team"

268 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:11:17pm

re: #206 Varek Raith

You dare speaketh his name?!?!

Better Abrams than Brannon and Braga...those fucks ran the Star Trek franchise into the ground and nearly killed it.

269 Petero1818  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:11:31pm

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think he's ashamed of what he said, I think it's what he thinks. Maybe. Who the hell knows? I honestly cannot get a handle on the man.

There is a good reason for that. He is simply an opportunist. It is hard to falter as often as he does if you honestly hold certain beliefs. I get the feeling he is like the liar who cant keep his lies straight. That is why he makes so many gaffes and that is why you can't figure him out.

270 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:11:34pm

To be honest I miss the days when LGF was 50/50 or more right than left.

271 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:11:35pm

re: #244 Varek Raith

Being a scifi fan sucks.
All the scifi shows get cancelled. The ones that don't, suck.

I'm not sure what to classify as "SciFi". A long time ago there was a collection of sub-genres that sort of made up the "SciFi" family of fiction, but these days the term seems to be short hand for "Space Adventure Fantasy" or "Space Fright Night", often made with little regard to actual story or drama.

Oh look, it has computer graphics - it must be "SciFi".

Oh look, it is set in "space" - it must be "SciFi."

Oh look, it has ghosts and zombies - it must be "SciFi".

BTW, when did ghosts and zombies become "SciFi"?

And, if zombies are going to be in "SciFi", shouldn't they be called "Xombyz"?

272 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:00pm

Condolences to the Romney campaign.

273 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:11pm

re: #267 JamesWI

I don't think it's that ridiculous to expect someone here to at least try to back up the things they say with more than just "He's on my team"

After you've gotten that answer a few dozen times, though, expending too much emotional energy on trying to get it to change...and people are expending a LOT of energy...seems foolish to me.

274 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:13pm

re: #241 Kragar

She was married to an agent who advised her to include it. The TV execs thought it was funny at the time and figured the show would flop and they would never have to pay anything out, so they agreed.

Fooled them, didn't she?

275 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:23pm

re: #268 Gert Fröbe

Better Abrams than Brannon and Braga...those fucks ran the Star Trek franchise into the ground and nearly killed it.

"Nearly"? If it weren't for Abrams, it would still be dead. I still feel bad for Manny Coto, he was really starting to bring Enterprise into its own, make it a decent series, then Paramount pulls the plug.

276 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:26pm

re: #272 Gus

Should we send them flowers, or is a card enough?

277 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:27pm

Elves with particle cannons.
SciFi or Fantasy?
;)

278 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:50pm

re: #277 Varek Raith

Elves with particle cannons.
SciFi or Fantasy?
;)

Shadowrun.

279 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:50pm

re: #244 Varek Raith

Being a scifi fan sucks.
All the scifi shows get cancelled. The ones that don't, suck.

Not always true. Babylon 5 managed to finish the story arc that Straczinsky plotted for it.

I have all five seasons on DVD, and I never miss a chance to watch them.

280 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:50pm

re: #259 Romantic Heretic

Well, speaking as someone on a disability, fuck you, asshole!

I'm so glad I live in Canada. There's damn few of these heartless bastards.

Wait, was that something Romney actually said? So disabled people should be ashamed of the fact that they might need help to survive?

Jesus fucking Christ.

281 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:13:57pm

re: #276 freetoken

Should we send them flowers, or is a card enough?

Coconuts.

282 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:14:40pm
283 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:14:43pm

re: #279 Romantic Heretic

Not always true. Babylon 5 managed to finish the story arc that Straczinsky plotted for it.

I have all five seasons on DVD, and I never miss a chance to watch them.

I should've been more specific.
I mean now.
:)

284 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:14:48pm

re: #266 Lidane

The reboot film was an origin story that had to work in the entire original bridge crew of the Enterprise, plus Pike, AND it had to tell a story on top of that. Way too much to do in two hours.

Hopefully now that the characters have been introduced the next film will be better. I liked the first one a lot (*ducks*) but it definitely had room for improvement.

I've managed to read a few issues of the continuation comics, which the writers have said is to bridge the gap between the movies. And the characters really do start to come into their own. It starts to look more like the dynamics we know, even if younger and a little less...seasoned.

285 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:14:52pm

re: #277 Varek Raith

Elves with particle cannons.
SciFi or Fantasy?
;)

If it's on the receiving end of magma or mine cart shotguns it's Dwarf Fortress.

;)

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:15:00pm

re: #270 recusancy

To be honest I miss the days when LGF was 50/50 or more right than left.

We had a real good balance going on for a while. I mean, I love all the folks here, (well, 99%), but I can get people to agree with me about politics anywhere.

287 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:15:09pm

re: #261 Targetpractice

Think if I have any real criticism, it was watching Eric Bana chew scenery like there was no tomorrow.

Heh, true. Although seeing the guy who played Romeo in the second Boondock Saints film as Bana's right hand man was a nice geek moment for me.

288 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:15:18pm

Crazy confession...
When I was but a wee nerd, I had a crush on Spock, so yeah,
the Uhura/Spock thing worked for me.

289 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:15:20pm

Scotch. Rainwater. Condoms.

290 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:15:25pm

re: #252 Gus

That's cool. All I can say is that Obama makes the best squadron commander. He wins.

Which squadron? IJN CAs or US BBs? Someone here mentioned Leyte Gulf earlier.

291 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:15:35pm

re: #279 Romantic Heretic

Not always true. Babylon 5 managed to finish the story arc that Straczinsky plotted for it.

I have all five seasons on DVD, and I never miss a chance to watch them.

JMS only got the fifth season he needed to end everything because the fans revolted. The studio was ready to pull the plug after season four.

292 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:15:56pm

re: #285 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

If it's on the receiving end of magma or mine cart shotguns it's Dwarf Fortress.

;)

I got around to making one.
Funny as hell.

293 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:16:58pm

I Am A Member Of The 47% And I Pay A Higher Percentage In Income Taxes Than Mitt

unfortunately for me, mitt will never come here to hippie dippie california so i could make this sign and protest his speech

294 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:17:18pm

re: #284 Targetpractice

I've managed to read a few issues of the continuation comics, which the writers have said is to bridge the gap between the movies. And the characters really do start to come into their own. It starts to look more like the dynamics we know, even if younger and a little less...seasoned.

I wanted to read those, but grad school pretty much ate up my spare cash. Hopefully there's a trade paperback or two out there collecting them all.

295 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:17:25pm

re: #289 Gus

Scotch Grain Alcohol. Rainwater. Condoms.

Fixed per Stanley Kubrick.

296 bratwurst  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:17:26pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Thing is, I really don't give a damn. What's the goal? To get D_F to vote for Obama? To get him to crumble and admit we've outargued him? To get him to leave?

The level of hostility I'm seeing toward him is just silly and disproportionate. I know he's driving some people nuts, but like I said, I really don't care.

I mean, Jesus, people, I'll argue with Dark about this or that, but basically this boils down to:

[Link: xkcd.com...]

"Someone on the Internet is a partisan Republican."

I mostly agree. I certainly don't imagine anyone here is going to get him to NOT vote for Romney. He is, of course, allowed to be a partisan Republican as well. My only wish is that he could figure out a way to support his side without openly embracing total and utter nonsense like the obviously manufactured "you didn't build that" bullshit, or whatever men with zero credibility like Mark Steyn or Jonah Goldberg write for National Review.

Admittedly, it may well be that Romney is such a wretched candidate that there are not a lot of intellectually honest ways of supporting him.

297 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:17:38pm

re: #275 Targetpractice

"Nearly"? If it weren't for Abrams, it would still be dead. I still feel bad for Manny Coto, he was really starting to bring Enterprise into its own, make it a decent series, then Paramount pulls the plug.

I believe that Coto taking over running the show for Enterprise and his perfomance in trying to right the ship (as it were) is one of the main reasons that kept Paramount from killing the Trek franchise off outright and putting it permanently in the "legacy" vault.

Love him or hate him, Abrams got people excited for Star Trek again.

298 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:17:53pm

re: #292 Varek Raith

I got around to making one.
Funny as hell.

Player posted a video of one that tosses gold crafts including statues, plus using high-speed carts themselves as a defense.

299 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:18:27pm

re: #294 Lidane

I wanted to read those, but grad school pretty much ate up my spare cash. Hopefully there's a trade paperback or two out there collecting them all.

There is, it's how I caught them. Its weird and wild to see old Trek episodes being rewritten to account for the new timeline and everything.

300 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:18:55pm

re: #291 Targetpractice

JMS only got the fifth season he needed to end everything because the fans revolted. The studio was ready to pull the plug after season four.

And because Ted Turner was willing to put season 5 on TNT. The first 4 seasons had been syndicated, but it was the TNT deal that allowed season 5.

301 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:19:04pm

re: #289 Gus

Scotch. Rainwater. Condoms.

Things a peeping tom has.

302 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:19:29pm

Holy shit, Adelson is one creepy looking dude

Image: enhanced-buzz-6143-1347942862-1.jpg

303 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:20:15pm

re: #302 JamesWI

Holy shit, Adelson is one creepy looking dude

Image: enhanced-buzz-6143-1347942862-1.jpg

Dude looks like a fucking troll...

304 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:20:17pm

re: #291 Targetpractice

Farscape, Enterprise, and especially Firefly never got the endings that they ought to have had.

Same could be said of the recent Fox bomb Terra Nova, which had such big hype and big budget but fell flat on its face.

305 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:20:29pm

re: #301 Amory Blaine

Things a peeping tom has.

I'm still open to sniper shootings.

//

306 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:20:38pm

re: #296 bratwurst

Admittedly, it may well be that Romney is such a wretched candidate that there are not a lot of intellectually honest ways of supporting him.

Well, that's my take on Romney. But because of that, I wonder what kind of a statement of support I, or other folks of my general political ilk, would accept as intellectually honest anyway.

307 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:21:08pm

re: #299 Targetpractice

There is, it's how I caught them. Its weird and wild to see old Trek episodes being rewritten to account for the new timeline and everything.

Oh cool. I'll have to read them before the next film comes out. I'll check Amazon after I start working again and can spare a few bucks.

308 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:21:20pm

I make joke.

309 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:22:05pm

re: #303 Gert Fröbe

Dude looks like a fucking troll...

I wondered what Hoggle ended up doing after Labyrinth.

310 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:22:29pm

I also saw GG Allin play at the Odd Rock Cafe.

311 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:22:51pm

re: #304 freetoken

Farscape, Enterprise, and especially Firefly never got the endings that they ought to have had.

Same could be said of the recent Fox bomb Terra Nova, which had such big hype and big budget but fell flat on its face.

I like to think of "Terra Prime" as being the closest we were ever going to get to a decent ending to Enterprise. The only part of "These Are The Voyages..." I care for is the last couple minutes.

312 gwangung  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:23:10pm

re: #296 bratwurst

I mostly agree. I certainly don't imagine anyone here is going to get him to NOT vote for Romney. He is, of course, allowed to be a partisan Republican as well. My only wish is that he could figure out a way to support his side without openly embracing total and utter nonsense like the obviously manufactured "you didn't build that" bullshit, or whatever men with zero credibility like Mark Steyn or Jonah Goldberg write for National Review.

Yeah, pretty much this. I mean, I think there are a lot of things that are part of Republican orthodoxy that can be supported fairly well. But a lot of his defenses are of stuff that just are patent claptrap.

313 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:23:19pm

re: #309 Kragar

I wondered what Hoggle ended up doing after Labyrinth.

He changed his name to Haggle and became a commodities trader in Chicago.

314 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:23:39pm

re: #309 Kragar

I wondered what Hoggle ended up doing after Labyrinth.

He made a shit-ton of money conning people out of theirs by selling them on the idea they can get rich quick in his casinos.

All the while, he's been playing fast-and-loose with the law in the countries in which he operates (especially overseas) to do that, almost as bad as the old-time Vegas gangsters.

315 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:25:35pm

re: #310 Amory Blaine

I also saw GG Allin play at the Odd Rock Cafe.

Did he poo himself?

316 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:26:27pm
317 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:27:00pm

re: #315 SpaceJesus

Did he poo himself?

That wasn't the problem. He pood on everyone else.

318 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:27:02pm

Buffalo gals.

319 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:27:58pm

re: #220 Mocking Jay

What is this "Generations" that you speak of?

C'mon, Generations wasn't that bad; I even liked how Kirk helped Picard in the Nexus and went out in a blaze of glory.

Hey, at least it wasn't Nemesis...

/I will never forgive them for killing off Data; it's another thing that Berman and Braga can burn in Hell for

320 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:28:16pm
321 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:28:41pm

re: #303 talon_262

Dude looks like a fucking troll...

Yogurt from Spaceballs.

322 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:30:29pm

re: #321 Reverend Mother Ramallo

OMG, you're right!

/apologies to Mel Brooks

323 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:31:04pm

Another show that was cut off unceremoniously mid-season and didn't get an ending: Stargate Universe.

324 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:31:58pm

re: #323 freetoken

Another show that was cut off unceremoniously mid-season and didn't get an ending: Stargate Universe.

Ehh, didn't it pretty much suck?

325 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:32:00pm

re: #323 freetoken

Another show that was cut off unceremoniously mid-season and didn't get an ending: Stargate Universe.

Yeah, but I'd argue that series was really going nowhere. The concept was interesting, but it seemed too much like "Stargate: Galactica."

326 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:32:23pm

re: #306 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that's my take on Romney. But because of that, I wonder what kind of a statement of support I, or other folks of my general political ilk, would accept as intellectually honest anyway.

I think with DF, my main motivation in continuing to question him is curiosity.

In most places on the internet where you can find Republican voters (be it on the right-wing blogs, the Twitter accounts of famous conservatives, or the craziness of comment sections for major news sites, not to mention on TV), their comments usually leave no doubt as to why they're voting that way. From out-right racism, to homophobia, to simple greed or stupidity, they usually wear it on their sleeves.

But with DF....he recognizes that much of what the modern day "leaders" of his party say is absolutely vile, disgusting nonsense. He joins us in mocking the Fischers, Akins, Limbaughs, and Hannity's of the world....but then he turns around and agrees with them at the ballot box. He doesn't seem to fit into any category of people who SHOULD be voting Republican. And when asked why he does, he doesn't really provide an answer.

Really, it's just baffling to me. And that makes it a curiosity.

327 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:32:47pm

Caprica. I wanted to see where it was going.

328 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:33:38pm

Well, I guess they technically finished the "season" on SGU, but the story was just dropped without an ending.


re: #325 Targetpractice

It did wander, but that was inevitable because the same production outfit that did the other Stargates was recycling themselves. The franchise owners (MGM) really needed to bring in a new production team, but they didn't, and MGM ran into financial troubles before they could redo any of their television products.

329 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:33:57pm

re: #319 Gert Fröbe

C'mon, Generations wasn't that bad; I even liked how Kirk helped Picard in the Nexus and went out in a blaze of glory.

Hey, at least it wasn't Nemesis...

/I will never forgive them for killing off Data; it's another thing that Brannon and Braga can burn in Hell for

Honestly, I liked Nemesis. It had the kind of extended space battle I'd been wanting for a long time in Star Trek. The Sovereign-class Dreadnought Enterprise E and the Scimitar worked well ranged against each other, and at least some of the combat decisions were believable.

330 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:35:10pm

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, I liked Nemesis. It had the kind of extended space battle I'd been wanting for a long time in Star Trek. The Sovereign-class Dreadnought Enterprise E and the Scimitar worked well ranged against each other, and at least some of the combat decisions were believable.

I liked it too, until they killed Data.

331 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:35:13pm

re: #326 JamesWI

I think with DF, my main motivation in continuing to question him is curiosity.

In most places on the internet where you can find Republican voters (be it on the right-wing blogs, the Twitter accounts of famous conservatives, or the craziness of comment sections for major news sites, not to mention on TV), their comments usually leave no doubt as to why they're voting that way. From out-right racism, to homophobia, to simple greed or stupidity, they usually wear it on their sleeves.

But with DF....he recognizes that much of what the modern day "leaders" of his party say are absolutely vile, disgusting nonsense. He joins us in mocking the Fischers, Akins, Limbaughs, and Hannity's of the world....but then he turns around and agrees with them at the ballot box. He doesn't seem to fit into any category of people who SHOULD be voting Republican. And when asked why he does, he doesn't really provide an answer.

Really, it's just baffling to me. And that makes it a curiosity.

All that I've been able to suss out about why Dark still supports the GOP is because that's how his dad votes and it's how he's voted for his adult life.

It's rote behavior, with little logic.

332 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:35:15pm
333 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:37:41pm

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, I liked Nemesis. It had the kind of extended space battle I'd been wanting for a long time in Star Trek. The Sovereign-class Dreadnought Enterprise E and the Scimitar worked well ranged against each other, and at least some of the combat decisions were believable.

I dug the space combat (stuff that made Trek movies like Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, and Undiscovered Country even better), but the rest of the plot was pure dreck, IMO.

334 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:38:22pm

re: #330 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I liked it too, until they killed Data.

Mitt Romney took that personally, and bought the Federation.

335 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:38:37pm

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, I liked Nemesis. It had the kind of extended space battle I'd been wanting for a long time in Star Trek. The Sovereign-class Dreadnought Enterprise E and the Scimitar worked well ranged against each other, and at least some of the combat decisions were believable.

I found the Scimitar simply too hard to accept. I guess they had to find a way to create a ship that could knock a Sovereign around, but "perfect cloak"? Fire while cloak? More weapons than three heavy cruisers? It seemed too much like something a fanboy would design.

336 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:39:39pm

You know which show deserved a real ending? Reaper.

337 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:40:18pm

re: #335 Targetpractice

I found the Scimitar simply too hard to accept. I guess they had to find a way to create a ship that could knock a Sovereign around, but "perfect cloak"? Fire while cloak? More weapons than three heavy cruisers? It seemed too much like something a fanboy would design.

Recycled right from Undiscovered Country.

Brannon and Braga were and are unoriginal bastards.

338 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:40:43pm

re: #326 JamesWI

From out-right racism, to homophobia, to simple greed or stupidity, they usually wear it on their sleeves.

In case anyone was going to get on me for stereotyping.....this isn't what I think of "conservatives" and it's not what I thought of "Republicans" before the last four years. In previous elections, I didn't think you had to be stupid, racist, greedy, homophobic, heartless or any other of those things to vote for Reagan, or the Bushes, or Bob Dole, or even McCain (though he certainly pushed it with the pandering).

But at this point, if you're voting Republican still, with what the party has turned into.....you honestly have to be some combination of those adjectives.

339 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:41:06pm

sorry i'm late to the party - i only just now heard mitt trying - and failing spectacularly - to dig himself out of this hole

in all my decades of obsessing on presidential elections and reading about all the presidential campaigns in american history, i have never seen or heard of a presidential candidate doing anything quite as self destructive as this

340 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:42:10pm

re: #339 engineer cat

sorry i'm late to the party - i only just now heard mitt trying - and failing spectacularly - to dig himself out of this hole

in all my decades of obsessing on presidential elections and reading about all the presidential campaigns in american history, i have never seen or heard of a presidential candidate doing anything quite as self destructive as this

Stick around. We still have about six weeks left...

341 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:43:41pm

re: #338 JamesWI

Yeah. I'm not against hearing rational reasons to support conservatism, in fact I want to hear them! For example, Rightwingconspirator and researchok make honest arguments without couching their points in sarcasm and mockery.

But to agree with any form of conservatism espoused by Rush Limbaugh? Sorry.

342 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:44:00pm

re: #333 Gert Fröbe

I dug the space combat (stuff that made Trek movies like Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, and Undiscovered Country even better), but the rest of the plot was pure dreck, IMO.

BTW, I felt bad that the TNG cast had to go out on that note; they should have gotten a sendoff in the vein of Undiscovered Country, but got a Final Frontier instead.

/what does God need with a starship?

343 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:44:01pm

re: #337 Gert Fröbe

Recycled right from Undiscovered Country.

Brannon and Braga were and are unoriginal bastards.

Nah, B&B didn't have a personal hand in that abomination, John Logan did. And then Stuart Baird, who was an action film director, was the guy hired to put the script onto the big screen.

Knew I felt a disturbance in the Farce back in '01, when Logan said he'd never seen an episode of Trek, but he watched TNG in a single marathon and thought he had a feel for the series.

344 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:44:48pm

re: #324 Gert Fröbe

Ehh, didn't it pretty much suck?

Sadly, it gained momentum in the second season and began to be promising.

Twitchy, morally ambiguous Robert Carlisle was eminently watchable.

345 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:46:02pm

Some shows just jump the shark way too early - Jeremiah did that in season 2 - and collapse under their own terminal story-line blow ups.

Some shows are just confused about who their audiences ought to be and suffer - Terra Nova is the latest case.

Eureka survived as long as it did because, I propose, the producers decided to go for a younger audience. Making "SciFi" for adults is very risky these days.

346 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:46:37pm

re: #341 dragonath

Yeah. I'm not against hearing rational reasons to support conservatism, in fact I want to hear them! For example, Rightwingconspirator and researchok make honest arguments without couching their points in sarcasm and mockery.

But to agree with any form of conservatism espoused by Rush Limbaugh? Sorry.

I don't know how seriously I can take Conservatives who call David Frum a RINO.

347 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:47:29pm

re: #345 freetoken

Some shows just jump the shark way too early - Jeremiah did that in season 2 - and collapse under their own terminal story-line blow ups.

Some shows are just confused about who their audiences ought to be and suffer - Terra Nova is the latest case.

Eureka survived as long as it did because, I propose, the producers decided to go for a younger audience. Making "SciFi" for adults is very risky these days.

Eureka didn't take itself too seriously. I never see that as a liability.

348 jvic  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:47:37pm

re: #306 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that's my take on Romney. But because of that, I wonder what kind of a statement of support I, or other folks of my general political ilk, would accept as intellectually honest anyway.

The phrase I bolded suggests an acknowledgment that yours is not the only legitimate point of view. (Back in 2002 when Bush was at his peak and the Democrats were in disarray, I would caution my fellow conservatives that a two-party system needed two competent parties.)

Though the election is a long way off in political time, my guess is that the only thing that can save Romney is an event which makes him the lesser evil. That's more or less been Romney's strategy all along, but now he's committed to it whether he likes it or not.

349 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:47:57pm

One series I think deserved at least one more season was Jericho. It was really starting to cook when the execs killed it.

350 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:48:15pm

re: #343 Targetpractice

Nah, B&B didn't have a personal hand in that abomination, John Logan did. And then Stuart Baird, who was an action film director, was the guy hired to put the script onto the big screen.

Knew I felt a disturbance in the Farce back in '01, when Logan said he'd never seen an episode of Trek, but he watched TNG in a single marathon and thought he had a feel for the series.

OK, Brannon Braga apparently didn't have anything to do with Nemesis, but Rick Berman was the producer, which makes him greatly responsible, IMO.

351 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:48:17pm

re: #341 dragonath

Yeah. I'm not against hearing rational reasons to support conservatism, in fact I want to hear them! For example, Rightwingconspirator and researchok make honest arguments without couching their points in sarcasm and mockery.

But to agree with any form of conservatism espoused by Rush Limbaugh? Sorry.

If you're a true conservative in these times, there really are only two honest options. Don't vote, or vote for a third party.

The Republicans are no more "conservative" than the Democrats. They want to spend pretty much the same amount of money, they just want to spend it on different things. On spending 1000x the amount of money any other country spends on their military, for our own. On giving more money to corporations and their friends.

The Republicans aren't trying to decrease our debt like a "conservative" would. They're just trying to make it so our debt was spent on things they agree with.

352 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:48:42pm

re: #347 Mocking Jay

Eureka didn't take itself too seriously. I never see that as a liability.

Agree. It's the Gilligan's Island approach to a television show, and can be a winning formula, especially if one is marketing to younger crowds.

353 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:49:09pm

re: #352 freetoken

Agree. It's the Gilligan's Island approach to a television show, and can be a winning formula, especially if one is marketing to younger crowds.

Aw, come on man. It wasn't that silly.

354 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:49:39pm

I used to like the Trailer Park Boys.

355 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:50:08pm

re: #343 Targetpractice

None of the TNG movies really caught the feeling of the show right, I think. To understand what Trek, and by extension, Next Generation was all about, you have to go all the way back the the first season of TOS.

The movies injected too much of the kind of Deep Space Nine ambiguity into the mix. I guess that's the Berman effect or something.

356 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:50:16pm

re: #350 Gert Fröbe

OK, Braga apparently didn't have anything to do with Nemesis, but Berman was the producer, which makes him greatly responsible, IMO.

Yeah, nothing Berman ever did surprised me. The guy stepped into Gene's shoes and almost immediately decided that he wanted to leave his mark on the whole franchise. Problem was, his was an ego only matched by that of a fellow hack, Brannon Braga.

357 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:50:20pm

re: #353 Mocking Jay

Aw, come on man. It wasn't that silly.

Well, not as silly, but still not really a drama, at least a dramatic drama.

358 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:50:59pm

re: #357 freetoken

Well, not as silly, but still not really a drama, at least a dramatic drama.

Okay, I'll admit that it wasn't that dramatic.

359 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:51:40pm

re: #347 Mocking Jay

Eureka didn't take itself too seriously. I never see that as a liability.

Comcast killed Eureka off after the NBC Universal takeover, because it cost more to produce per episode than they were willing to spend, even though the show was the flagship show for SyFy and was still drawing a really good audience.

Fucking fools...

360 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:52:33pm

re: #359 Gert Fröbe

Comcast killed Eureka off after the NBC takeover, because it cost more to produce per episode than they were willing to spend, even though the show was the flagship show for SyFy and was still drawing a really good audience.

Fucking fools...

At least it got a fairly good send-off. Lost track of the number of series where the execs didn't give notice that the series was getting shit-canned until they sent out the pink slips.

361 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:52:36pm

Didn't SciFi kill off MST3K only to end up with Wrestling shows a few seasons later?

362 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:52:54pm

Lexx was cool too.

363 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:53:08pm

re: #361 dragonath

Didn't SciFi kill off MST3K only to end up with Wrestling shows a few seasons later?

Yup.

364 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:53:51pm

You also have to remember that some of Scifi's big series, it inherited from elsewhere. Stargate, Sliders, Lexx, etc.

365 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:54:15pm

And they axed Farscape to drag us through SG: Atlantis and Zombie seasons of SG-1

366 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:54:20pm

re: #360 Targetpractice

At least it got a fairly good send-off. Lost track of the number of series where the execs didn't give notice that the series was getting shit-canned until they sent out the pink slips.

The cast, crew, and fans had to fight for that mightily too, IIRC.

367 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:54:21pm

Any self-respecting writer or director who wants to do television "scifi" these days ought to approach a project as if it was a single shot of 10 to 12 episodes (of 42 minutes each), and write a story arc that can be told in 500 minutes of finished entertainment.

I think there is a future for this kind of television - as a short run serial, as pioneered by the likes of those early HBO productions that later became a staple of the cable premium channels.

368 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:54:32pm

re: #361 dragonath

Didn't SciFi kill off MST3K only to end up with Wrestling shows a few seasons later?

That's why it's spelled "SyFy" now. So you don't associate it with actual science fiction, because half their programming no longer qualifies.

Sort of like a less severe "The Learning Channel" to "TLC" transition.

Now I'm just waiting for the History Channel to change its name to H.

369 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:54:33pm

re: #362 Amory Blaine

Lexx was cool too.

It had nekkid women.

370 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:54:48pm

re: #308 Gus

I make joke.

I just dug into an aquifer.
Derp.

371 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:55:49pm

re: #368 JamesWI

That's why it's spelled "SyFy" now. So you don't associate it with actual science fiction, because half their programming no longer qualifies.

Sort of like a less severe "The Learning Channel" to "TLC" transition.

Now I'm just waiting for the History Channel to change its name to H.

No, it's SyFy because "SciFi" couldn't be trademarked, as it's a generic term.

372 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:56:33pm
373 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:56:57pm

re: #368 JamesWI

That's why it's spelled "SyFy" now. So you don't associate it with actual science fiction, because half their programming no longer qualifies.

Sort of like a less severe "The Learning Channel" to "TLC" transition.

Now I'm just waiting for the History Channel to change its name to H.

But not to worry, they've got a shitload of bad B-movies to show us every Saturday. Unfortunately, Mike and the bots won't ever be in attendance to make them bearable.

374 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:57:26pm

re: #373 Targetpractice

But not to worry, they've got a shitload of bad B-movies to show us every Saturday. Unfortunately, Mike and the bots won't ever be in attendance to make them bearable.

Rob Schneider is the Ice Spider!

375 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:57:40pm

re: #365 Kragar

And they axed Farscape to drag us through SG: Atlantis and Zombie seasons of SG-1

I'll never forgive them for Farscape.

376 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:58:40pm

re: #365 Kragar

And they axed Farscape to drag us through SG: Atlantis and Zombie seasons of SG-1

Yep, axe Farscape, then make you wait a couple years for them to finally get around to making a miniseries to finish off the series.

377 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 10:59:08pm

re: #371 Gert Fröbe

No, it's SyFy because "SciFi" couldn't be trademarked, as it's a generic term.

It wouldn't be able to be trademarked in some senses, but as a name for a television channel? It's not like they had a lot of challengers for the title of "The SciFi Channel."

They wouldn't be able to stop people from using "SciFi" in other contexts, but they could stop other companies from marketing a channel with the same name. I can't imagine the "SyFy" name is big with merchandizing......

378 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:00:15pm

re: #376 Targetpractice

Yep, axe Farscape, then make you wait a couple years for them to finally get around to making a miniseries to finish off the series.

Hated it.

379 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:01:19pm

Still remember when it was "The Scifi Channel," showing reruns of series like Amazing Stories, The Ray Bradbury Theater, or Ripley's Believe It Or Not. God, I feel old now.

380 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:01:51pm

Hard to believe Outer Limits is 50 years old now. And it's still better than 90% of science fiction now heh.

381 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:02:12pm

Still waiting for season 2 of the Dresden Files...

382 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:03:12pm

Zev Bellringer

383 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:04:00pm

re: #380 dragonath

Hard to believe Outer Limits is 50 years old now. And it's still better than 90% of science fiction now heh.

That's another series I grew up with, the new version of The Outer Limits, first when it was on Showtime, then on Scifi.

384 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:04:58pm

re: #380 dragonath

Hard to believe Outer Limits is 50 years old now. And it's still better than 90% of science fiction now heh.

I kind of liked the 90's revamp of Outer Limits when it was on Showtime.
Once it went to basic cable it went downhill though.

385 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:05:02pm

Help us JMS!

386 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:06:20pm

14 Incredibly Sexy Nickelback Lyrics (Yes, that title is sarcastic) (Also, I guess some of the language is NSFW, if your W cares about you visiting sites that have swear words in them)

387 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:06:55pm

Oh that reminds me, one of the original Twilight Zone writers is still going strong. I think that's pretty cool.

388 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:09:03pm

re: #386 JamesWI

14 Incredibly Sexy Nickelback Lyrics (Yes, that title is sarcastic) (Also, I guess some of the language is NSFW, if your W cares about you visiting sites that have swear words in them)

Such nuance!! Such subtlety!

389 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:09:39pm

re: #385 Varek Raith

Help us JMS!

Still remember the old fight JMS had on messageboards over B5 and DS9. Legend has it he tried to pitch B5 to Paramount, but they passed on it. Then, when it came time to make DS9, they took several of JMS' ideas for the series and worked them into the new series. When the two series were airing simultaneously, both fandoms accused the other of plagiarism.

390 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:10:52pm

re: #385 Varek Raith

Help us JMS!

JMS's head has kind of disappeared up his ass. That perfect combination of preachiness and assurance of his own greatness.

391 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:11:04pm

Goodnight.
Sweet, nerdy dreams everyone !!!

392 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:11:36pm

Time for bed. I just watched the first ten minutes of yesterday's Hardball. He opened with the Mitt tape, of course. I could swear this story gave Chris Matthews wood.

393 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:13:50pm

re: #389 Targetpractice

Still remember the old fight JMS had on messageboards over B5 and DS9. Legend has it he tried to pitch B5 to Paramount, but they passed on it. Then, when it came time to make DS9, they took several of JMS' ideas for the series and worked them into the new series. When the two series were airing simultaneously, both fandoms accused the other of plagiarism.

I have no doubt that Berman and Braga cribbed some ideas for DS9 from JMS and B5 to take it in a darker direction than TNG; I think that the competition between the two series made DS9 much better than it may have been otherwise.

For the record, Avery Brooks was and is a total badass.

394 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:15:38pm

re: #393 Gert Fröbe

I have no doubt that Berman and Braga cribbed some ideas for DS9 from JMS and B5 to take it in a darker direction than TNG; I think that the competition between the two series made DS9 much better than it may have been otherwise.

That's generally the allegation, that JMS gave Paramount a copy of the B5 "bible" and the execs used it to push the series in the same direction. Though, I admit I think part of it was still sour grapes on JMS' part, being unable to sell Paramount on the idea to begin with.

395 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:16:08pm
396 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:16:39pm

LOL

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

397 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:18:40pm

re: #396 SpaceJesus

LOL

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Image: 18video_romney-hpMedium.jpg

"You got a problem with me?"

398 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:19:54pm

re: #396 SpaceJesus

LOL

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Ouch

399 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:21:01pm

I really should get some sleep, because I know that before today is over, another shoe is gonna drop and make Mitt Romney wish he'd stayed away from politics.

400 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:21:10pm

Hey, Gus! You just got credited over at Balloon Juice!

401 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:22:29pm

Oh Kragar, found out that even with my gimpy video card, I should be able to play X-Com. Gonna put down a reserve this weekend.

402 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:22:47pm

re: #394 Targetpractice

That's generally the allegation, that JMS gave Paramount a copy of the B5 "bible" and the execs used it to push the series in the same direction. Though, I admit I think part of it was still sour grapes on JMS' part, being unable to sell Paramount on the idea to begin with.

It was definitely Paramount's loss, but I can see why they turned JMS down. At the time, the ST franchise was in full swing, with TNG winding down on TV and going to the big screen and DS9 going into production. Picking up B5 would have diverted finite studio resources from a proven sci-fi franchise into an unknown show that would be in direct competition with said franchise.

As much as I dislike Berman and Braga and what they did to the ST franchise (although, I will give Berman props for keeping Trek alive after Roddenberry died, just so I can bitch at him), it seemed like a sound business decision for Paramount at the time.

403 jvic  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:22:55pm

Back when the Dray Prescot and the Dumarest of Terra series of novels were cancelled without any effort by the publisher to provide readers with closure, I was ticked.

When the quality of the Wheel of Time series declined sharply, I was ticked. That the author turned out to be seriously ill (RIP) did not change the immediate effect on me the reader.

Now, with rare exceptions, I avoid incomplete series unless the episodes are self-contained.

404 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:25:06pm

re: #401 Targetpractice

Oh Kragar, found out that even with my gimpy video card, I should be able to play X-Com. Gonna put down a reserve this weekend.

Nice. Gameplay looks tight.

405 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:27:05pm

I just beat Max Payne 3 last week. Fun game.

406 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:27:40pm

re: #402 Gert Fröbe

It was definitely Paramount's loss, but I can see why they turned JMS down. At the time, the ST franchise was in full swing, with TNG winding down on TV and going to the big screen and DS9 going into production. Picking up B5 would have diverted resources from a proven sci-fi franchise into an unknown show that would be in direct competition with said franchise.

As much as I dislike Berman and Braga, it seems like a sound business decision for Paramount for the time.

True, plus while JMS had earned his bones working on other series, he'd never exec produced a series himself. And here he was, dropping a scifi show with a 5 season story arc and detailed characters down on their desks without any guarantee that the series would make it past the first season. In retrospect, it's not hard to see why they'd be hesitant to sign on.

407 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:29:53pm

Speaking of canceled shows and un-ended stories, it looks like Fox has figured out a way to make money out of lemons:

Think You Know How "Terra Nova" Ends?

With Fox canceling Terra Nova, fans were left wondering just how the series might have been resolved.

Now Fox wants to give you the chance to tell the story's end--but there's a small catch. You've got to buy the complete series DVD set.

If you do, you'll be given a special code to enter on the official Terra Nova web site. There you can submit your own ending for the series using motion comics and online editing software.

The web site promises to provide lots of images and visual effects material so that your vision of how the show ends can be fully realized.

[...]

So you, too, can spend money to write your own ending to a failed TV show.

408 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:30:54pm

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would SO DO Mary Anne.

It's not too late, she is still only 73...and she parties!

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

409 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:30:57pm

re: #407 freetoken

Speaking of canceled shows and un-ended stories, it looks like Fox has figured out a way to make money out of lemons:

Think You Know How "Terra Nova" Ends?

So you, too, can spend money to write your own ending to a failed TV show.

I'm sure a lot of folks would have given their eyeteeth to do that for LOST. At least then the ending might not have seemed like a cop-out.

410 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:31:23pm

Borderlands 2 is out tonight.

411 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:31:31pm

After all, why pay some highfalutin writer a salary when people will do the work for free?

412 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:31:54pm

re: #408 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

It's not too late, she is still only 73...and she parties!

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

She's in love with Mary Jane...

/apologies to Rick James

413 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:32:10pm

re: #411 freetoken

After all, why pay some highfalutin writer a salary when people will do the work for free?

Hard to say these days. I've seen better fanfiction than some of the stuff Hollywood is putting onto film.

414 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:34:08pm

Not betting on this one:

415 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:34:46pm

re: #413 Targetpractice

Hard to say these days. I've seen better fanfiction than some of the stuff Hollywood is putting onto film.

TRU DAT

Ever see any of the I.M.P.S episodes (Star Wars fanfic that centers on Imperial troops, in the vein of Cops and other documentary programs)?

416 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:34:48pm

Speaking of Hollywood, I caught pictures of the new Robocop today. And I'm...ambivalent on what I saw.

417 freetoken  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:36:20pm

I've yet to watch the new show Revolution. I think I'll go check it out and see if it has merit.

418 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:36:44pm

re: #407 freetoken

Fox is the graveyard for promising TV shows: Brisco County, Firefly, Wonderfalls, Futurama, etc.

And yet the Simpsons chugs on.

419 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:41:06pm

re: #418 dragonath

Fox is the graveyard for promising TV shows: Brisco County, Firefly, Wonderfalls, Futurama, etc.

And yet the Simpsons chugs on.

I think it telling that several Fox shows, like Futurama, Family Guy, and Firefly, did well enough in DVD sales to warrant new seasons/movies. I get the general feeling that the Fox execs haven't a fucking clue which demographic they're playing to anymore.

420 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:43:20pm

re: #414 freetoken

Not betting on this one:

[Embedded content]

Hrmmm...

Interesting, seeing that Koenig, Tim Russ, and some of the other Voyager cast members are involved, but if they're trying to catch lightning in a bottle for a second time like DS9 did taking Trek darker and edgier, they have an uphill battle.

421 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:57:49pm

So, I attempted to access LGF from my iPhone earlier this evening. I posted something, but got so frustrated with the tiny phone screen, I gave-up. I was also running out of battery.

Was in the ER with my Mom. She got dizzy today and almost fell. Seems if you are over 80 they admit you on principle. She is having an MRI tomorrow. All the other tests came back good.

Have to remember to take stylus and iPhone cord with tomorrow morning.

I've come to hate hospitals.

422 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 11:59:00pm
423 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 12:10:48am

nytol

424 spiderx  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 12:31:29am

how much do you think this hurts Romney? It seems like the country is full of partisans. Something like this isn't going to prevent a republican from voting for Romney. They will just rationalize it.

425 freetoken  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 12:42:55am

re: #424 spiderx

... Something like this isn't going to prevent a republican from voting for Romney. They will just rationalize it.

Many are wholeheartedly embracing it.

426 freetoken  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 12:45:37am
427 AK-47%  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 12:58:50am

re: #424 spiderx

how much do you think this hurts Romney? It seems like the country is full of partisans. Something like this isn't going to prevent a republican from voting for Romney. They will just rationalize it.

It has more to do with the undecided voters and those who vote on personality over ideology or policy: they will see just what a true asshole this guy is.

428 researchok  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:09:14am

Morning, all

429 freetoken  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:10:43am

One of the more recognized 20th century works, often played but still fun - from Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet suite #2:

430 researchok  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:13:17am

re: #426 freetoken

Nice!

Good AM for something smooth

431 researchok  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:22:25am

re: #429 freetoken

Burned into our consciousnesses for sure.

I wonder if anyone has ever studied how many times certain pieces are played in our media/entertainment.

Certainly the music selected for cartoons alone has played a huge role in our musical awareness.

I t woiud make for an interesting read- to me, anyway.

432 Pip's Squeak  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:39:06am

re: #429 freetoken

I used to think that Prokofiev was a second-tier Shostakovich. These days I wonder if it might not be the other way around.

433 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 1:47:49am

Speaking of classics...

434 freetoken  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 2:29:18am

re: #432 Pip's Squeak

Well, all these Russian composers who lived through the changes in their country wrote music that sort of all fits together in some big picture. They put the drama of their society into their music, as much as was allowed.

435 freetoken  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 2:34:08am

Speaking of Russians, here is some more Georgy Sviridov, his "Betrayal of Judas":

436 Swampwitch  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 2:46:02am

Thurston Howell? No. He had a heart. And Luvvy was absolutely his boss.

No, Romney is Neidermeyer...no empathy, not terribly bright, owner of an annoying horse.

437 Pip's Squeak  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 2:57:10am

re: #434 freetoken

Well, all these Russian composers who lived through the changes in their country wrote music that sort of all fits together in some big picture. They put the drama of their society into their music, as much as was allowed.

I sort of disagree with this. If anything, the drama of the society was to be kept out of the music.

438 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 3:45:40am

Morning all..Morning Joe is reshowing the news conference last night. Mitt looks even more pathetic in the clear light of day.

439 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 3:46:55am

re: #431 researchok

Burned into our consciousnesses for sure.

I wonder if anyone has ever studied how many times certain pieces are played in our media/entertainment.

Certainly the music selected for cartoons alone has played a huge role in our musical awareness.

I t woiud make for an interesting read- to me, anyway.

Kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit!

Learned everything I know about opera from "What's Opera Doc?"

440 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 3:49:10am

Joe Scarborough haz a major sad. He literally did a face palm after the replay of the press conference.

441 freetoken  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 3:52:14am

re: #437 Pip's Squeak

I sort of disagree with this. If anything, the drama of the society was to be kept out of the music.

I'm not sure an artist can really do that.

442 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 3:57:34am

re: #441 freetoken

I'm not sure an artist can really do that.

I would agree. If it's not overt it will come through in other ways.

443 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:00:42am

re: #439 PT Barnum

Kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit!

Learned everything I know about opera from "What's Opera Doc?"

Kill the wabbit?

;)

444 Majacita  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:07:15am

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

No. It's good for everyone to hear the other side.

445 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:07:38am

re: #443 Varek Raith

Kill the wabbit?

;)

446 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:08:03am

re: #445 PT Barnum

[Embedded content]

Spear and magic helmet?

447 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:09:42am

Looney Tunes.
Iz seen em all.

448 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:10:52am

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

All that ends up being is me getting pounded from pillar to post, yelled at and downdinged. I'm just one guy, and I really want to come here to enjoy myself. But if its just going to be the kind of "I hate or pity you" type of hostility, then perhaps its time I took a leave of absence for the remainder of the election season. Would the group rather I just did that?

It's not a matter of hate or pity, I'm just trying to understand why you continue to support someone who is as feckless as Romney is. I also haven't seen any real defense put up by you as to why Romney is remotely viable as a candidate for the most powerful office in the world.

449 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:14:15am

re: #447 Varek Raith

Looney Tunes.
Iz seen em all.

I wasn't sure I had, but I've collected all the Looney Tunes golden collections and other than a few that are probably no longer available, I think I've seen em all. My personal favorites are the collections of sight gags.

Here we see a beaver damming a river
(cut to beaver cursing a blue streak)

450 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:18:49am

This is a close up?!
A close up you jerk, a close up!!!

451 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:22:15am

re: #450 Varek Raith

This is a close up?!
A close up you jerk, a close up!!!

This is a close up?

452 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:22:48am

SomethingAwful has raised $70,000 for the widow and children of Sean Smith, one of the Americans killed in the consulate attack.

[Link: www.youcaring.com...]

453 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:23:00am

No Mcribs until November! The horror the horror!

454 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:25:17am
455 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:26:26am

And everyone should watch the adorable documentary about Mexican Jews, it's really damn interesting.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

456 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:30:43am

re: #454 Varek Raith

I participated.

How is that? I've never played any of the sci fi MORPGs. I played WoW for a while and now play DDO (dungeons and dragons on line) Cool thing was that playing RPGs on line brought me back to playing pen and paper after a 20 year absence.

457 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:32:12am

re: #455 Obdicut

And everyone should watch the adorable documentary about Mexican Jews, it's really damn interesting.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Reminds me of the episode of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon tries to convince people that Jerusalem should be moved to the Sonora Desert.

458 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:35:32am

re: #456 PT Barnum

How is that? I've never played any of the sci fi MORPGs. I played WoW for a while and now play DDO (dungeons and dragons on line) Cool thing was that playing RPGs on line brought me back to playing pen and paper after a 20 year absence.

I like it.
You can get a two week free trial if you want.
[Link: trial.eveonline.com...]

459 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:37:15am

re: #33 Lidane

Just like Dana Loesch on Twitter.

Some folks just can't process that Mitt has well and truly fucked over his campaign in the last week, and tonight was the extra set of nails in the coffin.

Nails?

He is using Huck fasteners and titanium Hi-Locs at this point...but then again, he is a cyborg!

460 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:39:46am

re: #459 celticdragon

Nails?

He is using Huck fasteners and titanium Hi-Locs at this point...but then again, he is a cyborg!

I think he's past that point, he's now welding himself in.

461 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:40:54am

re: #458 Varek Raith

I played it for two days. You do a lot of traveling. A lot.

462 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:41:45am

Morning Honcos.

463 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:45:11am

re: #461 Obdicut

I played it for two days. You do a lot of traveling. A lot.

Not my favorite thing to do in WoW, either.

I like the DDO hub and spoke approach better. No grinding, unless you want to go to one of the wilderness areas.

465 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:50:21am

re: #462 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos.

Morning! Busy day?

466 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:51:32am

re: #448 PT Barnum

I don't want to see DF disappear. I have asked him,pretty patiently several times,just to tell me why I should vote GOP. He simply can't or won't be straight with me about that. He says he'd need to go into too much detail and it would be too time consuming. I wasn't asking for a book,just some basic answers. Truth doesn't take that long to tell. One of my questions was what the plan is about repeal and replace Obamacare. That should be easy to find out if the info is out there. But more to the point,I'd really like to hear from Dark what he feels the GOP vision of the country going forward from now is. I would think that would be at least part of why a person would choose which party holds any office,especially at the federal level.

Maybe it's just family loyalty on his part. My sister is like this,she votes GOP because my parents have drilled it into her head since she was old enough to understand. One thing that has changed though is my family's belief that liberals don't work,love their country or care about their kids. We were estranged for almost 10 yrs because of religion and politics,and that was NOT my doing,it was their choice. It was only when my dad ended up in the hospital about a year ago that things changed,not alot,but at least we are speaking again. But my mom still thinks Glenn Beck is a credible resource,that is something I can't change. She has however come to realize that that awful stimulus money is helping her only grandson get specialized training and an education so he can become an independant adult and that horrible Obamacare means he'll be covered until he's able to find insurance through an employer(or better still when this country embraces some sort of single payer system). My reality has sort of put cracks in their conservative walls,so it could turn out they at least think about the crap they listen to. It's all I can hope for.

467 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:52:00am

re: #464 Mocking Jay

Hrm. His base will love him for trash-talking peace and Palestinians. But the kick the can down the road part, I don't see how anyone can like that. Really undercuts his attacks on Obama, too; if Romney has no plan, no solution, why's he all up in Obama's grill?

468 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:53:35am

re: #465 PT Barnum

Morning! Busy day?

Nope. Off. And 80% chance of rain with winds around 25MPH. Makes for a good eating day.

469 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:54:10am

re: #468 Cannadian Club Akbar

Nope. Off. And 80% chance of rain with winds around 25MPH. Makes for a good eating day.

Still in MD?

470 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:54:45am

re: #467 Obdicut

Hrm. His base will love him for trash-talking peace and Palestinians. But the kick the can down the road part, I don't see how anyone can like that. Really undercuts his attacks on Obama, too; if Romney has no plan, no solution, why's he all up in Obama's grill?

I don't have a map in front of me, but I'm pretty sure Tel Aviv isn't adjacent to the West Bank. In fact, it's by the coast, if memory serves?

And I don't have a map here to look at the geography, but the border between Israel and the West Bank is obviously right there, right next to Tel Aviv, which is the financial capital, the industrial capital of Israel, the center of Israel.

471 freetoken  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:55:22am
472 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:55:35am

re: #466 A Mom Anon

I don't want to see DF disappear. I have asked him,pretty patiently several times,just to tell me why I should vote GOP. He simply can't or won't be straight with me about that. He says he'd need to go into too much detail and it would be too time consuming.

I don't want to see him go either. However the "It would take too much time" is usually used by people who can't really back up what they're talking about with evidence.

I used to see this sort of thing all the time on some of the conspiracy theory sites I used to lurk on. (I have a morbid interest in fringe viewpoints)

473 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:56:34am

re: #472 PT Barnum

I don't want to see him go either. However the "It would take too much time" is usually used by people who can't really back up what they're talking about with evidence.

I used to see this sort of thing all the time on some of the conspiracy theory sites I used to lurk on. (I have a morbid interest in fringe viewpoints)

-.-

474 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:57:08am

re: #470 Mocking Jay

I don't have a map in front of me, but I'm pretty sure Tel Aviv isn't adjacent to the West Bank. In fact, it's by the coast, if memory serves?

Image: ilnewzzz.gif

475 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:57:15am

re: #469 Varek Raith

Still in MD?

Yep. You should be getting the same weather.

476 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:57:31am

re: #468 Cannadian Club Akbar

Nope. Off. And 80% chance of rain with winds around 25MPH. Makes for a good eating day.

It's started getting cold here at night. There is just something really wonderful about slipping between cool sheets and then cuddling up to Mrs. Barnum to get warm.

477 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:57:51am

re: #474 Varek Raith

Image: ilnewzzz.gif

27 ish miles.

478 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:58:00am

re: #475 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yep. You should be getting the same weather.

Yep.

479 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:58:21am

re: #477 Varek Raith

27 ish miles.

Obviously right there!

480 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 4:59:08am

re: #476 PT Barnum

It's started getting cold here at night. There is just something really wonderful about slipping between cool sheets and then cuddling up to Mrs. Barnum to get warm.

It was 47 yesterday morning. I REALLY need to get my cold weather clothes here before it actually gets cold.

481 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:04:02am

re: #464 Mocking Jay

"[S]o what you do is, you say, you move things along the best way you can. You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that this is going to remain an unsolved problem…and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."

Shorter Mitt:

We let the events of the day control us and just hope for the best instead of the other way around!

482 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:05:45am

re: #472 PT Barnum

I don't want to see him go either. However the "It would take too much time" is usually used by people who can't really back up what they're talking about with evidence.

I used to see this sort of thing all the time on some of the conspiracy theory sites I used to lurk on. (I have a morbid interest in fringe viewpoints)

Do you ever listen to Coast to Coast AM? And have you heard of the radio show Ground Zero? (GZ is a show added to the night time lineup from my station out of Tampa)

483 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:08:57am

re: #482 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do you ever listen to Coast to Coast AM? And have you heard of the radio show Ground Zero? (GZ is a show added to the night time lineup from my station out of Tampa)

I used to, but that's way past my bed time at this point. I'm not familiar with Ground Zero. My favorite source of nuttiness are the late night radio preachers. Back in the late 80's I used to pick up KAAY out of Little Rock. About 9:00 pm the real nutjobs would start in on all sorts of things. Very funny and disturbing all at the same time. My favorite was the guy who claimed that the real purpose of Reagan's Star Wars program was to shoot down Jesus at the Second Coming.

484 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:09:41am

re: #482 Cannadian Club Akbar

I listened to Coast to Coast with Space Ghost.

485 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:10:31am
486 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:11:37am

re: #483 PT Barnum

I used to, but that's way past my bed time at this point. I'm not familiar with Ground Zero. My favorite source of nuttiness are the late night radio preachers. Back in the late 80's I used to pick up KAAY out of Little Rock. About 9:00 pm the real nutjobs would start in on all sorts of things. Very funny and disturbing all at the same time. My favorite was the guy who claimed that the real purpose of Reagan's Star Wars program was to shoot down Jesus at the Second Coming.

Here's his website. A treasure trove of buldada.

[Link: www.overcomerministry.org...]

487 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:12:40am

re: #484 Obdicut

I listened to Coast to Coast with Space Ghost.

[Embedded content]

I lumped that in with South Park and Beavis and Butthead. Just didn't get why they were funny.

488 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:13:30am

re: #487 PT Barnum

I lumped that in with South Park and Beavis and Butthead. Just didn't get why they were funny.

One word: pot.

489 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:15:09am

re: #488 Cannadian Club Akbar

One word: pot.

That would explain a great deal, which means they were 10 years too late, at least for me.

490 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:15:14am

re: #486 PT Barnum

Here's his website. A treasure trove of buldada.

[Link: www.overcomerministry.org...]

I read Alex Jones' sites about once a week just to get my fix of nuts.

491 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:15:19am

re: #487 PT Barnum

I lumped that in with South Park and Beavis and Butthead. Just didn't get why they were funny.

492 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:16:49am

re: #491 Varek Raith

[Embedded content]

meh.

I'll still take any random episode of Pinky and the Brain.

493 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:17:04am

re: #492 PT Barnum

meh.

I'll still take any random episode of Pinky and the Brain.

TROZ!

494 wheat-dogg  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:18:33am

re: #334 darthstar

Mitt Romney took that personally, and bought the Federation.

I thought he was part of the Borg collective.

495 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:20:35am

re: #494 wheatdogg

I thought he was part of the Borg collective.

They turned him down for being too cold.

496 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:23:40am

Heh. Borderlands 2 is trending.

497 wheat-dogg  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:23:41am

re: #367 freetoken

Any self-respecting writer or director who wants to do television "scifi" these days ought to approach a project as if it was a single shot of 10 to 12 episodes (of 42 minutes each), and write a story arc that can be told in 500 minutes of finished entertainment.

I think there is a future for this kind of television - as a short run serial, as pioneered by the likes of those early HBO productions that later became a staple of the cable premium channels.

Like a telenovela.

498 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:24:19am

Police: Man used dog to beat girlfriend
SANFORD, Fla. -
A Sanford man was arrested on allegations of beating his live-in girlfriend with her own dog.
Michael Wayne Jones, 42, was arrested Thursday on charges of domestic battery by strangulation, criminal mischief and animal cruelty.
According to Sanford police, Jones got into a fight with his girlfriend and she attempted to drive away.

Jones, however, grabbed her dog and started swinging the animal in the air, said police, who added that Jones then beat his girlfriend with the dog.
[Link: www.clickorlando.com...]

499 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:25:17am

re: #498 Cannadian Club Akbar

Police: Man used dog to beat girlfriend
SANFORD, Fla. -
A Sanford man was arrested on allegations of beating his live-in girlfriend with her own dog.
Michael Wayne Jones, 42, was arrested Thursday on charges of domestic battery by strangulation, criminal mischief and animal cruelty.
According to Sanford police, Jones got into a fight with his girlfriend and she attempted to drive away.

Jones, however, grabbed her dog and started swinging the animal in the air, said police, who added that Jones then beat his girlfriend with the dog.

Only in Florida. Must have been a chihuahua or something.
[Link: www.clickorlando.com...]

500 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:28:45am

re: #499 PT Barnum

My former step-monster (mother) had a Yorkie that liked to go into my father's pasture and taunt the horses. Well, the horses won.

501 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:35:16am
502 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:36:31am

re: #498 Cannadian Club Akbar

There was a guy here in the Atlanta area who is in jail for the same thing. Sad Story. The fucked up thing is that he got more punishment for killing the dog than he did repeatedly beating his girlfriend.

We also have a domestic violence organization here that helps find the pets of victims homes. People don't realize that one of the things an abuser uses to threaten a victim is the family pet. Since most DV shelters don't take pets,victims will stay because of a fear the pet will be killed.

Ahimsa House

503 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:41:25am

re: #502 A Mom Anon

There was a story out of Tampa years ago (can't remember when) about a guy who beat his GF and stole her dog then threw it out of his car window on I-275. The animal rights people offered a reward for his capture. I don't recall them being concerned with the woman's well being.

504 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:46:27am

re: #503 Cannadian Club Akbar

This is why I like the people at Ahimsa House,they care about the family unit as a whole,including the pet. They deal with the pet primarily,but they help women and children find safety too. If you've never been in that situation,it can be hard to understand why women stay,this charity removes one worry/barrier that can be in the way.

505 BongCrodny  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:47:31am

re: #304 freetoken

Farscape, Enterprise, and especially Firefly never got the endings that they ought to have had.

Same could be said of the recent Fox bomb Terra Nova, which had such big hype and big budget but fell flat on its face.

I watched the pilot episode of Revolution on the NBC website and saw more than a little influence of The Postman in it.

Which ain't a good thing.

506 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:52:16am

re: #505 BongCrodny

I watched the pilot episode of Revolution on the NBC website and saw more than a little influence of The Postman in it.

Which ain't a good thing.

Indeed. I actually saw The Postman in the theater, and the overly-long movie annoyed me enough that I vowed to never watch another"Kevin Costner movie" again.

507 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:53:06am

re: #506 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. I actually saw The Postman in the theater, and the overly-long movie annoyed me enough that I vowed to never watch another"Kevin Costner movie" again.

Waterworld RULES!!!
////

508 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:55:14am

I... enjoyed The Postman.

There, I said it.

509 wheat-dogg  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:59:31am

re: #508 Mocking Jay

I... enjoyed The Postman.

There, I said it.

My ex loved that movie, so I was required to watch it over and over again. It's not half-bad, but yeah, a tad long. Having Tom Petty make a cameo as a former rock star was a nice touch.

Waterworld, on the other, was all wet. Mad Max in boats, basically.

510 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 5:59:32am

re: #508 Mocking Jay

I... enjoyed The Postman.

There, I said it.

The first step is admitting you have a problem...

511 BongCrodny  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:01:00am

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, I liked Nemesis. It had the kind of extended space battle I'd been wanting for a long time in Star Trek. The Sovereign-class Dreadnought Enterprise E and the Scimitar worked well ranged against each other, and at least some of the combat decisions were believable.

They were going to have to kill of Data sooner or later.

"Old Data with wrinkles" just doesn't work.

512 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:04:00am

re: #436 Swampwitch

Thurston Howell? No. He had a heart. And Luvvy was absolutely his boss.

No, Romney is Neidermeyer...no empathy, not terribly bright, owner of an annoying horse.

513 BongCrodny  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:04:33am

re: #509 wheatdogg

My ex loved that movie, so I was required to watch it over and over again. It's not half-bad, but yeah, a tad long. Having Tom Petty make a cameo as a former rock star was a nice touch.

Waterworld, on the other, was all wet. Mad Max in boats, basically.

I do confess to absolutely loving that part of The Postman. Had big-time smiles during that whole "I know you -- you used to be famous"/"I was once" scene.

Rest of the movie, not so much.

514 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:07:27am

No wonder the GOP hates accessible education and critical thinking so much:

Hint: if you need the populace to be ignorant and ill-informed in order to win, your ideas suck and you don't deserve to govern.

515 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:08:53am

College suspends professor for allegedly attempting to force students to vote for Obama
A college professor has been placed on leave after she allegedly forced her class to sign a pledge to vote for President Obama in the upcoming elections.

Early last week Professor Sharon Sweet at Brevard Community College (BCC) allegedly told students to sign a pledge that reads: “I pledge to vote for President Obama and Democrats up and down the ticket.”
[Link: www.campusreform.org...]

516 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:09:07am

From Joan Walsh at Salon - this nugget is getting lost in the flood from that video. Romney admitting that Republicans are sabotaging the economy to help him get elected:

Romney also brags that “if we win on November 6th…we’ll see capital come back and we’ll see—without actually doing anything—we’ll actually get a boost in the economy.” Did you get that? The economy will improve for Romney “without actually doing anything” because “capital” will come back. Enough said.

Sick fucker.

Oh, and good morning.

517 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:09:44am

re: #507 Cannadian Club Akbar

Waterworld RULES!!!
////

SMACK!

518 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:13:04am

re: #515 Cannadian Club Akbar

College suspends professor for allegedly attempting to force students to vote for Obama
A college professor has been placed on leave after she allegedly forced her class to sign a pledge to vote for President Obama in the upcoming elections.

Early last week Professor Sharon Sweet at Brevard Community College (BCC) allegedly told students to sign a pledge that reads: “I pledge to vote for President Obama and Democrats up and down the ticket.”
[Link: www.campusreform.org...]

Glad that was done. It is not appropriate for a professor to tell students which way to vote.

519 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:14:11am

re: #515 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: www.campusreform.org...]

"Campusreform.org" is a global-warming denier organization that's been praised by Michele Bachmann. Ergo, I'll take anything they say with approx. a metric fuckton of salt.

520 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:14:20am

re: #518 Dark_Falcon

Glad that was done. It is not appropriate for a professor to tell students which way to vote.

From the linky:
Sweet’s actions may have also violated Florida’s election laws.

Section 104.31, of Title IX in chapter 104, states that “no officer or employee of the state... shall... use his or her official authority or influence for the purpose of interfering with an election or nomination of officer or influencing another person’s vote or affecting the result thereof.”

521 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:15:34am

re: #514 Interesting Times

Hint: if you need the populace to be ignorant and ill-informed in order to win, your ideas suck and you don't deserve to govern.

That's just it -- the GOP doesn't want to govern. All they want to do is dismantle all the regulations that keep them from truly pillaging the economy and which force them to be nice to everyone else.

522 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:20:33am
524 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:26:56am

Provided without comment.

525 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:28:05am

Oh, it's foreign policy Tuesday...if you'll recall, last week at this time Mitt Romney was accusing President Obama of siding with people attacking our embassies. Today, it's Bibi Romney...

526 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:29:08am

I started to realize that Romney was truly out of touch when I heard him reply to a Vietnam Vet that he did "service" as a Missionary in France, as if that was somehow equivalent. That was my Romney "jump the shark" moment when I decided I really, really didn't want his man to be President.

This is just icing.

(Although his Church's goals were to occupy and civilize France, the same way France tried to "civilize" Vietnam.)

527 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:31:14am

ONOZ! JIMMY CARTER! IT'S A LIBRUL PLOT!

Seriously, it's just one of Carter's grand kids.

528 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:34:16am

A little morning beauty...

Wildflower Glade-Shot by Donna in Arizone between Grand Canyon and Flagstaff

Image: Donna_WildflowerGlade_LGF.jpg

529 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:34:56am

re: #526 ReamWorks SKG

Thing is, who does the modern GOP have right now that the base will accept AND who won't scare the ever-loving fuck out of sane people?

The best candidate in the primaries was Huntsman. He's definitely a conservative on many issues. He panders to the economic illiteracy of the GOP by doing stupid shit like endorsing the Ryan plan. Problem is, he speaks a language other than English, doesn't have his head up his ass on foreign affairs, and committed the unpardonable sin of working with President Obama so he didn't stand a chance. All the rest of them were a joke, Romney included.

The GOP desperately needs an enema. There's too much idiocy, religious fanaticism, anti-intellectualism, and libertarian style ignorance being enshrined and accepted as mainstream conservative thought. It's destroying what should be a functioning party.

530 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:35:37am

re: #527 darthstar

ONOZ! JIMMY CARTER! IT'S A LIBRUL PLOT!

[Embedded content]

Seriously, it's just one of Carter's grand kids.

Call the video "the Swamp Cottontail that got in the boat", then.

531 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:41:40am

re: #525 darthstar

Oh, it's foreign policy Tuesday...if you'll recall, last week at this time Mitt Romney was accusing President Obama of siding with people attacking our embassies. Today, it's Bibi Romney...

He actually sounds pretty reasonable. I'm going to excerpt from the article you linked to. For clarity, Mitt Romney's words are in italics:

And I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say, "There's just no way." And so what you do is you say, "You move things along the best way you can." You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that this is going to remain an unsolved problem. We live with that in China and Taiwan. All right, we have a potentially volatile situation but we sort of live with it, and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it. We don't go to war to try and resolve it imminently. On the other hand, I got a call from a former secretary of state. I won't mention which one it was, but this individual said to me, you know, I think there's a prospect for a settlement between the Palestinians and the Israelis after the Palestinian elections. I said, "Really?" And, you know, his answer was, "Yes, I think there's some prospect." And I didn't delve into it.

After saying all that, Romney emphasized that he was against applying any pressure on Israel: "The idea of pushing on the Israelis to give something up to get the Palestinians to act is the worst idea in the world."

That doesn't sound unreasonable to me. In fact, I find his view sensible and practical, corresponding closely with my own. This particular article actually makes want to vote for Romney more, not less.

532 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:41:53am

Foreign Policy is just a shiny object, of course, but this should give anyone who cares about stability in the Middle east pause.

Romney spoke of "the Palestinians" as a united bloc of one mindset, and he said: "I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say there's just no way."

Romney was indicating he did not believe in the peace process and, as president, would aim to postpone significant action: "[S]o what you do is, you say, you move things along the best way you can. You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that this is going to remain an unsolved problem…and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."

Romney did note there was another perspective on this knotty matter. He informed his donors that a former secretary of state—he would not say who—had told him there was "a prospect for a settlement between the Palestinians and the Israelis." Romney recalled that he had replied, "Really?" Then he added that he had not asked this ex-secretary of state for further explanation.

533 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:44:37am

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

He actually sounds pretty reasonable. I'm going to excerpt from the article you linked to. For clarity, Mitt Romney's words are in italics:

That doesn't sound unreasonable to me. In fact, I find his view sensible and practical, corresponding closely with my own. This particular article actually makes want to vote for Romney more, not less.

MOAR WOAR! MOAR WOAR!


Well, if he does win, you could always apply for a job as his Secretary of State.

534 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:45:44am
535 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:45:56am

Crikey!

536 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:47:01am

Good morning fellow lazy assed Americans!

537 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:47:26am
538 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:47:50am

re: #536 We're All Welfare Queens Now

Good morning fellow lazy assed Americans!

It's a good day to mooch.

539 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:50:01am

re: #538 Mocking Jay

It's a good day to mooch.

Got any spare cash? I left my wallet on my welfare yacht.

540 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:50:25am

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

On the other hand, I got a call from a former secretary of state. I won't mention which one it was, but this individual said to me, you know, I think there's a prospect for a settlement between the Palestinians and the Israelis after the Palestinian elections. I said, "Really?" And, you know, his answer was, "Yes, I think there's some prospect." And I didn't delve into it.

So he supposedly has a former SoS tell him there's a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and Romney doesn't give enough of a shit to ask about it at all?

That should disqualify him from the Presidency on its own. If he's getting people offering potential solutions to major problems and he ignores them, then what the fuck is he good for? Even Bush wasn't that incurious.

541 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:52:48am
542 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:55:09am

re: #536 We're All Welfare Queens Now

Good morning fellow lazy assed Americans!

Good morning! My mooching today will consist of looking at want ads and LinkedIn postings and sending in job applications and resumes. I might even be lazy enough to write a few cover letters. You know, just to change up the routine.

543 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:55:40am

re: #533 darthstar

Well, if he does win, you could always apply for a job as his Secretary of State.

He isn't the one calling for war, it's the Palestinians who are doing that. What Romney is saying is that they are at this point utterly unwilling to make peace with Israel and there really is not anything America can do to change their way of thinking. So what we should do is not try for or expect any kind of 'breakthrough', instead we should seek should seek to keep things under control. Mitt's words on this are not "America, FUCK YEAH!", but rather are a honest reflection of what America really can do with a fairly intractable situation.

Mitt Romney doesn't want fighting between Israel and the Palestinians, but far too many Palestinians do want to fight. His words simply recognize that reality and set correct expectations.

544 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:55:52am
The people who receive the disproportionate share of government spending are not big-government lovers. They are Republicans. They are senior citizens. They are white men with high school degrees. As Bill Galston of the Brookings Institution has noted, the people who have benefited from the entitlements explosion are middle-class workers, more so than the dependent poor.

Heresy! You lie! Get the government out of my Medicare! Hands off my healthcare! Freedom!

545 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:57:51am

re: #540 Lidane

So he supposedly has a former SoS tell him there's a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and Romney doesn't give enough of a shit to ask about it at all?

That should disqualify him from the Presidency on its own. If he's getting people offering potential solutions to major problems and he ignores them, then what the fuck is he good for? Even Bush wasn't that incurious.

"I won't mention which one it was"...well I'm guessing it wasn't Madeleine Albright. And I don't think Colin Powell would give Romney the time of day, so that leaves...lemmesee...Condi Rice. Of course he dismissed her...hell, all three of the names above are disqualified from giving bigoted misogynist Romney advice for one of two reasons, and Rice is both.

546 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 6:58:23am

Good morning lizards!

Fall has arrived with a windy rainy morning out here.

547 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:00:23am

re: #543 Dark_Falcon

So let's just throw our hands up in the air and say, "We tried. Oh, but they just didn't want to work with us, so we had no choice but to continue trying to choke the life out of one group of indigenous people..." Kinda sad, when ya think about it, also. You betcha. How about dem Bears?!

548 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:00:38am
The final thing the comment suggests is that Romney knows nothing about ambition and motivation. The formula he sketches is this: People who are forced to make it on their own have drive. People who receive benefits have dependency.

But, of course, no middle-class parent acts as if this is true. Middle-class parents don’t deprive their children of benefits so they can learn to struggle on their own. They shower benefits on their children to give them more opportunities — so they can play sports, go on foreign trips and develop more skills. People are motivated when they feel competent. They are motivated when they have more opportunities. Ambition is fired by possibility, not by deprivation, as a tour through the world’s poorest regions makes clear.

This.

549 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:01:52am
550 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:04:17am
551 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:08:31am

re: #547 darthstar

So let's just throw our hands up in the air and say, "We tried. Oh, but they just didn't want to work with us, so we had no choice but to continue trying to choke the life out of one group of indigenous people..." Kinda sad, when ya think about it, also. You betcha. How about dem Bears?!

We're not choking the life out of the Palestinians, neither is Israel. They aren't being "choked". We've tried for over 15 years to get a viable final status and peace treaty done, and both Presidents Clinton and Bush the younger worked hard towards that goal. Both Democrats and Republicans asked repeatedly for some good faith and compromise from Palestinian leaders, but ere met in every effort with dishonesty and intransigence. Should Mitt Romney just play the fool and pretend that that won't happen again, despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary?

552 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:10:27am


Yes, apparently jealous of the media attention his top of ticket running mate is getting, famous numbers wonk and VP candidate Paul Ryan goes back to lying about his physical fitness...

Sounds good. But then he can’t help but brag: “I keep my body fat between 6 and 8 percent,” he tells Allen.

Here’s who else maintains 6 to 8 percent body fat: Olympic 100-meter sprinters, that’s who. Also, world-class boxers, wrestlers, and marathoners, according to this study of elite American athletes. Top collegiate swimmers look pretty fit, right? Well, they average out at a plump 9.5 percent, at least according to another study. Positively porky, compared to Ryan. (For some perspective, the average man has body fat of 17 to 24 percent, and most women a bit more.)

If his claim is to be believed—a Ryan spokesman did not respond to questions—he’s more along the lines of Tour de France cyclists who also get down around 8 or 9 percent to prepare for major races. According to Iñigo San Millan, a veteran cycling physiologist who has worked with numerous Tour de France teams, the lowest body fat he’s ever measured on a cyclist was 8.3 percent. That’s at peak fitness, racing shape.

I get the feeling Ryan's in this so he'll be famous enough to have a 2am fitness infomercial on TV.

553 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:12:05am

re: #519 Interesting Times

"Campusreform.org" is a global-warming denier organization that's been praised by Michele Bachmann. Ergo, I'll take anything they say with approx. a metric fuckton of salt.

The Morning Wingnut Wave commences...

554 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:12:14am

re: #551 Dark_Falcon

They had democratic elections (in which Hamas won) and Bush's response was to reject the result, call them terrorists, and cut off aid.

555 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:13:40am

Poor fist-puppet...he's just following orders.

556 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:15:05am
557 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:15:46am

Okay...time to run the dogs.

558 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:16:26am

re: #554 darthstar

They had democratic elections (in which Hamas won) and Bush's response was to reject the result, call them terrorists, and cut off aid.

Justly so. You know of the Hamas Charter and the group's rejection of Israel's existence, I trust? Hamas often glories in its terrorism and if an electorate votes into power a group with that sort of background and attitude, then we damn straight should cut off aid. Because they have sent us a clear sign that they favor terrorism over peace.

559 kirkspencer  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:25:35am

re: #470 Mocking Jay

I don't have a map in front of me, but I'm pretty sure Tel Aviv isn't adjacent to the West Bank. In fact, it's by the coast, if memory serves?

Depends on several definitions: what is adjacent, what is tel aviv, that sort of thing.

Tel Aviv proper (city limits sort of thing) is ten miles from the border of the West Bank. Tel Aviv sprawl runs across the border.

Is ten miles adjacent? Is sprawl part of Tel Aviv?

560 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:27:24am

re: #554 darthstar

They had democratic elections (in which Hamas won) and Bush's response was to reject the result, call them terrorists, and cut off aid.

The US added Hamas to our list of banned terror groups in in the 90's so you can thank Clinton for the designation. Neither Bush nor Obama seem interested in removing them from the list for good reason. They are, in fact, terrorists in every sense of the word.

561 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:27:51am

re: #559 kirkspencer

Depends on several definitions: what is adjacent, what is tel aviv, that sort of thing.

Tel Aviv proper (city limits sort of thing) is ten miles from the border of the West Bank. Tel Aviv sprawl runs across the border.

Is ten miles adjacent? Is sprawl part of Tel Aviv?

The entire coast is pretty well urbanized, from Ashkelon to Caesaria and Haifa. There are some (mostly artificial) gaps.

562 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:29:50am

re: #552 darthstar

[Embedded content]


Yes, apparently jealous of the media attention his top of ticket running mate is getting, famous numbers wonk and VP candidate Paul Ryan goes back to lying about his physical fitness...

I get the feeling Ryan's in this so he'll be famous enough to have a 2am fitness infomercial on TV.

Sounds good. But then he can’t help but brag: “I keep my body fat between 6 and 8 percent,” he tells Allen.

Think he's just talking about his head.

'Morning, all.

563 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:31:01am

There is a funky edit in the Mitt-Palestine video at about 0:55. Seems inconsequential though. Either way, Mitts facts are all a bit off in these videos but I'm not seeing anything outrageous here. I doubt it'll go anywhere. The press will give it a lot of attention because it's salacious hidden camera stuff. It'll be forgotten and replaced by the next outrage in a week or two.

564 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:32:26am

BRADENTON, Fl (970 WFLA)- An online sex sting has ended with 43 people under arrest in Manatee County.
'Operation Green Shepherd' wrapped up Monday after starting last Monday. During that time, undercover detectives went online and set up meetings with the suspects at an undercover home.
The suspects went to the home believing they were meeting up with a juvenile for a sexual encounter, deputies said.
Those suspects now face a variety of charges . More arrests are coming, detectives promise

Heh.

565 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:33:40am

re: #563 Killgore Trout

There is a funky edit in the Mitt-Palestine video at about 0:55. Seems inconsequential though. Either way, Mitts facts are all a bit off in these videos but I'm not seeing anything outrageous here. I doubt it'll go anywhere. The press will give it a lot of attention because it's salacious hidden camera stuff. It'll be forgotten and replaced by the next outrage in a week or two.

It's arguable, but not irrational. The most significant bit is the 'private' departure from the public RNC platform on the two-state solution.

566 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:34:03am
567 Sionainn  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:35:45am

Just saw this on a friend's FB...Romney's new nickname: Money Boo Boo.

568 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:39:09am
569 wheat-dogg  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:39:50am

re: #513 BongCrodny

It was based on an SF novel or short story, n'est-ce pas?

570 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:41:09am

re: #565 Decatur Deb

It's arguable, but not irrational. The most significant bit is the 'private' departure from the public RNC platform on the two-state solution.

It's not really a departure. You'll notice he starts off his speech saying something like "I'm torn between two views...." on M.E. peace (or whatever). From the video it seems the two views are 1) Palestinians make peace impossible 2) an unnamed secretary of state (probably Condi) told him that peace may eventually possible if we kick the can down the road long enough.
Although Obama has made some effort he would say much the same thing in private. The Palestinians aren't ready for peace (Bibi doesn't seem interested either these days). Any attempt at meaningful peace negotiations are pointless now. The only thing to do is keep kicking the can down the road and wait until both sides are ready.

571 SmithCommaJohn  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:42:02am

re: #15 HappyWarrior

You know, maybe someone should just let Mitt play a president in a movie. It would make him feel better perhaps.

He's got the look, if nothing else.

572 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:43:20am

re: #554 darthstar

If the KKK won the election here, I'd applaud other nations cutting ties.

573 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:45:02am

re: #570 Killgore Trout

It's not really a departure. You'll notice he starts off his speech saying something like "I'm torn between two views...." on M.E. peace (or whatever). From the video it seems the two views are 1) Palestinians make peace impossible 2) an unnamed secretary of state (probably Condi) told him that peace may eventually possible if we kick the can down the road long enough.
Although Obama has made some effort he would say much the same thing in private. The Palestinians aren't ready for peace (Bibi doesn't seem interested either these days). Any attempt at meaningful peace negotiations are pointless now. The only thing to do is keep kicking the can down the road and wait until both sides are ready.

Ah. He's learned how to pre-flip his flops. Saves on retro-flopping his flips.

574 Big Steve  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:47:58am

re: #573 Decatur Deb

Ah. He's learned how to pre-flip his flops. Saves on retro-flopping his flips.

Why is it negative that the man says he is not certain of the right answer? I, personally, would like to see more of this in politics instead of the canned intractable answers we usually hear.

575 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:49:04am

re: #574 Big Steve

Why is it negative that the man says he is not certain of the right answer? I, personally, would like to see more of this in politics instead of the canned intractable answers we usually hear.

My 565: "Arguable, but not irrational".

576 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:49:57am

re: #565 Decatur Deb

It's arguable, but not irrational. The most significant bit is the 'private' departure from the public RNC platform on the two-state solution.

I am not sure I see much of a departure from the 2 state solution here, just a presumed unwillingness to expend political capital to try to affect same. I don't find the comment on the Palestinians to be all that controversial. It is a mistake because as leader of the US, you have to at least want to be engaged in the process. Mitt rather seems like he prefers the Bibi version, which is that the status quo is better than any real possible outcome for Israel. Therefore don't bother doing anything to bring that possible outcome to fruition. Mitt is surely reflecting what most if not all President's in the last 50 years have thought. This is a lot of work and political capital on the line, when one side, or perhaps both, seem unwilling to really move the issue forward in a comprehensive meaningful way. Again, I think it is wrong for the President (or someone who wants to be POTUS) to publicly disengage from this issue, but quietly I think most other than Clinton have.

577 AK-47%  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:50:33am

I cannot disagree with Romney on Israel/Palestine. I gave up on even following it years ago when it became clear that between the Palestinian and Israeli extremisits, there is no road to a lasting peace.

578 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:52:52am

re: #574 Big Steve

Why is it negative that the man says he is not certain of the right answer? I, personally, would like to see more of this in politics instead of the canned intractable answers we usually hear.

Agreed. What mitt said wasn't all sunshine and lollipops, but it wa what his supporters needed to know. The short and mid-term prospects for peace between Israel and the Palestinians are very remote and the main reason is Palestinian intransigence. We've tried to avoid these facts for too long and Mitt Romney should be credited with putting them on the table, even if privately.

579 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:54:07am

re: #577 Expand Your Ground

I cannot disagree with Romney on Israel/Palestine. I gave up on even following it years ago when it became clear that between the Palestinian and Israeli extremisits, there is no road to a lasting peace.

When I lived there I paid more attention. Reached much your conclusion, though I wondered if some truly insane solution might be found.

Is it utterly impossible to run two independent nation-states inside the confines of one piece of real estate?

580 Big Steve  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:54:45am

I say cheers.....End of Father/Daughter Dances.....as I father with only sons I have been prayed upon for years not being able to go to Father/Daughter dances or Mother/Son Ballgames.
//

581 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:55:25am

re: #579 Decatur Deb

When I lived there I paid more attention. Reached much your conclusion, though I wondered if some truly insane solution might be found.

Is it utterly impossible to run two independent nation-states inside the confines of one piece of real estate?

Short answer ...Yes. When both land and resources are as scarce as they are there it would be impossible to run parallel states within one piece of dirt.

582 kirkspencer  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:55:53am

re: #570 Killgore Trout

It's not really a departure. You'll notice he starts off his speech saying something like "I'm torn between two views...." on M.E. peace (or whatever). From the video it seems the two views are 1) Palestinians make peace impossible 2) an unnamed secretary of state (probably Condi) told him that peace may eventually possible if we kick the can down the road long enough.
Although Obama has made some effort he would say much the same thing in private. The Palestinians aren't ready for peace (Bibi doesn't seem interested either these days). Any attempt at meaningful peace negotiations are pointless now. The only thing to do is keep kicking the can down the road and wait until both sides are ready.

Having looked at the track record I'm not sure Bibi was ever really interested. He felt Amir went too far (and let us never forget that there's a loud minority that fully agrees with Amir), but has indicated he believes all of Israel should be for Jews.

It's one of my major frustrations with discussing the process. Both sides have radicals who act to stop or undermine the peace process, who get their representatives in places of power. There are no clean hands, and any solution that pretends only one side is "right" or "wrong" is naive at best.

583 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:56:14am

This is also where dopes like David Corn can't seem to help themselves from overstating their case. Mitt isn't trashing or abandoning the two state solution, he's saying it's not possible to reach a settlement now. That's not unreasonable and I would guess that most people in government (and elsewhere) would agree. It probably won't even happen in our lifetime. Politicians in office will publicly leave open the possibility and go through the motions but nobody expects results.

584 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:57:43am

re: #582 kirkspencer

Having looked at the track record I'm not sure Bibi was ever really interested. He felt Amir went too far (and let us never forget that there's a loud minority that fully agrees with Amir), but has indicated he believes all of Israel should be for Jews.

It's one of my major frustrations with discussing the process. Both sides have radicals who act to stop or undermine the peace process, who get their representatives in places of power. There are no clean hands, and any solution that pretends only one side is "right" or "wrong" is naive at best.

You are correct. Bibi is not interested. Never has been and never will. He will never be a leader that trades land for peace. Ever.

585 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:58:24am

re: #581 Petero1818

Short answer ...Yes. When both land and resources are as scarce as they are there it would be impossible to run parallel states within one piece of dirt.

It would seems so, but there is no solution in conventional thinking that does not involve megadeaths. It's sad that this is about the struggle for nationhood when the very concept of nationhood is being undermined by globalism.

586 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 7:59:13am

re: #580 Big Steve

Saw that. Ruin it for the others.

587 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:00:52am

re: #584 Petero1818

You are correct. Bibi is not interested. Never has been and never will. He will never be a leader that trades land for peace. Ever.

I think you're right that Bibi is not the guy for this sort of thing. However, the "land for peace" trial balloon was Gaza and it didn't work out very well. It's going to be quite some time before an Israeli leader is willing to try that again and Palestinians are going to have to demonstrate that they'll actually abide by the peace in exchange for land.

588 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:02:18am

re: #585 Decatur Deb

It would seems so, but there is no solution in conventional thinking that does not involve megadeaths. It's sad that this is about the struggle for nationhood when the very concept of nationhood is being undermined by globalism.

The solution is and has always been there, but it represents compromises both sides are unwilling to make. In Israel, Yossi Beilin has long had a framework that in my mind works. It was part of the Geneva accord and in my view represents the best chance for peace. Both sides appear to prefer the status quo to that solution, but it is an inherently just document IMHO.

589 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:03:29am

re: #583 Killgore Trout

This is also where dopes like David Corn can't seem to help themselves from overstating their case. Mitt isn't trashing or abandoning the two state solution, he's saying it's not possible to reach a settlement now. That's not unreasonable and I would guess that most people in government (and elsewhere) would agree. It probably won't even happen in our lifetime. Politicians in office will publicly leave open the possibility and go through the motions but nobody expects results.

Quite Concur.

590 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:03:31am
591 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:03:39am

re: #587 Killgore Trout

I think you're right that Bibi is not the guy for this sort of thing. However, the "land for peace" trial balloon was Gaza and it didn't work out very well. It's going to be quite some time before an Israeli leader is willing to try that again and Palestinians are going to have to demonstrate that they'll actually abide by the peace in exchange for land.

Land for peace in a piecemeal patchwork fashion will never work. It has to be comprehensive. And all parties need to acknowledge that there will be many who seek to sabotage it from within and without.

592 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:05:44am

re: #588 Petero1818

The solution is and has always been there, but it represents compromises both sides are unwilling to make. In Israel, Yossi Beilin has long had a framework that in my mind works. It was part of the Geneva accord and in my view represents the best chance for peace. Both sides appear to prefer the status quo to that solution, but it is an inherently just document IMHO.

So things go on, until both sides inevitably have nukes and the political strains produce bi-lateral nutcase leaders.

593 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:06:30am

Romney had, unsurprisingly, no nuance. It's reckless to say that "The Palestinians" are not interested in peace, just as it would be reckless to say "The Israelis" are not.

I think it's true the leadership of both groups is not in a peace-productive place. Netanyahu doesn't want it. Abbas has to spend his energy not disintegrating. It's therefore true a peace process isn't going to take hold in the next 2-4- or even more years. But this problem will _not_ 'solve itself'. And giving up on the process and the possibilities before you're elected is a bad omen.

594 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:06:37am

Afghanistan Suicide Bombing Linked to Anti-Islam Film

Afghan insurgent group Hezb-e-Islami claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it sent a female bomber in response to an anti-Islam, online video that has sparked worldwide protests, including in Afghanistan.

595 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:07:21am

I dunno, if I had a hotel I probably wouldn't advertise it with a photo of a woman pissing on the rug.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

596 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:08:03am
597 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:08:37am

Jimi Hedrix died on this day in 1970.

598 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:09:30am

re: #595 Obdicut

I dunno, if I had a hotel I probably wouldn't advertise it with a photo of a woman pissing on the rug.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

That must be photo shopped. Women can't pee standing up!!
///

599 Thorzdad  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:09:31am

Well, Romney's lost Brooks this week. Brooks changes his direction with every new gust of wind, so don't be surprised if, in a day or two, he doesn't turn around and declare that Obama's in trouble.

600 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:10:06am

Morning all!

When it rains it pours. Kid is healing nicely from his surgery and will start PT next week. He can't drive, so I'll be doing that for the duration. Now, Mom is in the hospital for probably another day.

Ah, really, I'm glad I'm in a position to have such things to complain about. And that is all I have to complain about. 1st world problems.

How is the morning treating you?

601 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:10:54am

re: #596 Lidane

He tries to do the MBF thing with the Obama quote-- surprisingly, he has the decency to put the whole quote there, which shows Obama not having contempt, but sympathy.

I wonder if Kristol really can't tell the difference or is just playing dumb.

602 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:11:05am

re: #593 Coracle

Romney had, unsurprisingly, no nuance. It's reckless to say that "The Palestinians" are not interested in peace, just as it would be reckless to say "The Israelis" are not.

I think it's true the leadership of both groups is not in a peace-productive place. Netanyahu doesn't want it. Abbas has to spend his energy not disintegrating. It's therefore true a peace process isn't going to take hold in the next 2-4- or even more years. But this problem will _not_ 'solve itself'. And giving up on the process and the possibilities before you're elected is a bad omen.

Nuance produces hope and in this case hope is something Romney wanted to to diminish. He believes, as I do, that the ultimately sought peace isn't possible at this time and so its best not waste time on futile efforts to reach it. For the time being abandon hope in it and let's refocus our efforts where they can do some good.

603 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:11:28am

re: #594 Killgore Trout

Afghanistan Suicide Bombing Linked to Anti-Islam Film

"I hate that film. I think I'll blow myself up."
//

604 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:12:09am

re: #583 Killgore Trout

This is also where dopes like David Corn can't seem to help themselves from overstating their case. Mitt isn't trashing or abandoning the two state solution, he's saying it's not possible to reach a settlement now. That's not unreasonable and I would guess that most people in government (and elsewhere) would agree. It probably won't even happen in our lifetime. Politicians in office will publicly leave open the possibility and go through the motions but nobody expects results.

I listened to a podcast a long time ago in which a panel of "experts" said the same thing. Seem the death of Rabin? sealed it. The ME expert said that it will take lifetime to have the same combination of leaders capable of working peace.

605 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:12:19am

re: #603 NJDhockeyfan

"I hate that film. I think I'll blow myself up."
//

That's how I felt after "Sideways".

606 AK-47%  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:12:20am

re: #594 Killgore Trout

Afghanistan Suicide Bombing Linked to Anti-Islam Film

Afghan suicide bombing linked to fundamentalist extremism

607 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:12:43am

Kristol: A Note on Romney’s Arrogant and Stupid Remarks

Although he tries to do the whole "clinging to guns = 47%" equivalence nonsense, Kristol actually has the same moment of clarity that Brooks does:

It's worth recalling that a good chunk of the 47 percent who don't pay income taxes are Romney supporters—especially of course seniors (who might well "believe they are entitled to heath care," a position Romney agrees with), as well as many lower-income Americans (including men and women serving in the military) who think conservative policies are better for the country even if they're not getting a tax cut under the Romney plan. So Romney seems to have contempt not just for the Democrats who oppose him, but for tens of millions who intend to vote for him.

608 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:13:05am

re: #581 Petero1818

Short answer ...Yes. When both land and resources are as scarce as they are there it would be impossible to run parallel states within one piece of dirt.

Have you read The City and The City. China Mieville's answer to your question. Bizarre answer, but yet, an answer.

609 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:13:12am

Pakistani man dies after inhaling fumes from burning American flags at anti-Islam film rally

A Pakistani protestor has died after inhaling smoke from burning U.S. flags during a rally against the anti-Islam film Innocence of Muslims.

Abdullah Ismail died in Mayo hospital in Lahore having complained of feeling unwell during the angry demonstrations in the eastern Pakistan city yesterday.

610 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:14:16am

re: #601 Obdicut

I wonder if Kristol really can't tell the difference or is just playing dumb.

He's pandering. Kristol damn well knows the difference but needs to draw the false equivalence so he doesn't piss off his readers.

611 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:14:25am

re: #607 Lidane

Kristol: A Note on Romney’s Arrogant and Stupid Remarks

Although he tries to do the whole "clinging to guns = 47%" equivalence nonsense, Kristol actually has the same moment of clarity that Brooks does:

He is being set-up to fail --I swear.

Someone is making too much money with Obama in office.

612 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:14:48am

re: #595 Obdicut

I dunno, if I had a hotel I probably wouldn't advertise it with a photo of a woman pissing on the rug.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Great line from that piece:

But urine on a rug? That just transforms The Standard from edgy contemporary space to The Dude's dirty bungalow (see "The Big Lebowski" reference here).

613 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:15:59am
614 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:17:21am

re: #611 ggt

He is being set-up to fail --I swear.

Someone is making too much money with Obama in office.

Heh, true. Another four years of Obama would be great business for Faux News, Limbaugh, and the rest of the RWNJ machine. Maybe that's why writers like Brooks and Kristol are pointing out that Mittens didn't just insult Democrats with his 47% remarks, but his own supporters as well.

615 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:18:03am

re: #605 Decatur Deb

That's how I felt after "Sideways".

I'm not drinking any fucking Merlot!!!!

616 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:18:24am

re: #602 Dark_Falcon

Nuance produces hope and in this case hope is something Romney wanted to to diminish. He believes, as I do, that the ultimately sought peace isn't possible at this time and so its best not waste time on futile efforts to reach it. For the time being abandon hope in it and let's refocus our efforts where they can do some good.

If that's what he really believes, then he's a fucking coward for not saying it on the stump, or in front of AIPAC.

617 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:18:29am

re: #595 Obdicut

I dunno, if I had a hotel I probably wouldn't advertise it with a photo of a woman pissing on the rug.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

And as for me, I'd just say that imperiously urinating on a rug is the province of the Cat Overlords and should best be left to them.

618 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:18:43am

re: #613 Dark_Falcon

Darwin Akbar!

No relation.
/

619 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:20:04am
621 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:20:48am
622 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:20:49am
623 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:21:18am

re: #614 Lidane

Heh, true. Another four years of Obama would be great business for Faux News, Limbaugh, and the rest of the RWNJ machine. Maybe that's why writers like Brooks and Kristol are pointing out that Mittens didn't just insult Democrats with his 47% remarks, but his own supporters as well.

don't forget the the firearm industry . . .

624 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:21:47am

re: #617 Dark_Falcon

And ass for me, I'd just say that imperiously urinating on a rug is the province of the Cat Overlords and should best be left to them.

and cocker spaniels.

625 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:22:29am

re: #616 Coracle

If that's what he really believes, then he's a fucking coward for not saying it on the stump, or in front of AIPAC.

It is calculation, not cowardice. Most people don't understand the issue and would be easily persuaded to see Romney as a "quitter" for saying what he said. That may happen anyways, now. But it certainly would have happened had he said what he really thinks in a major speech.

626 brennant  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:24:09am

re: #617 Dark_Falcon

And ass for me, I'd just say that imperiously urinating on a rug is the province of the Cat Overlords and should best be left to them.

Walter, she peed on my rug!

627 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:24:23am

re: #624 ggt

and cocker spaniels.

Yes, but dogs don't do that in an imperious manner as cats are wont to do.

628 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:26:31am

re: #595 Obdicut

I dunno, if I had a hotel I probably wouldn't advertise it with a photo of a woman pissing on the rug.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I'm playing at that place on Thursday and Saturday. Hope they really don't pee on the rugs there.

629 brennant  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:28:15am

re: #628 makeitstop

I'm playing at that place on Thursday and Saturday. Hope they really don't pee on the rugs there.

Why does this place smell like Cherrios?

630 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:31:38am

Not gory war porn but this is one awesome piece of machinery
*RAW VIDEO* Special Forces Minigun Firefight With Taliban

631 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:33:00am

re: #630 Killgore Trout

Damn, sorry livleak version won't embed
MINIGUN SPECIAL FORCES FIREFIGHT IN AFGHANISTAN

632 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:33:23am

Cincinnati SWAT team did an exercise in an unused University of Cincinnati building and it gets miscalled a "raid" by paranoia pushers:

The Cincinnati S.W.A.T. team conducted a large-scale “search and room entry” raid on the University of Cincinnati (UC) without notifying students early this week, a university spokesman confirmed on Thursday.

A video, posted on YouTube on Sept. 11 by a passerby, depicts nearly a dozen heavily armed men pile out of a black armored vehicle bearing a large Department of Homeland Security sticker.

Most of the officers appeared to be carrying high-powered assault rifles.

Spokesman for the university, Greg Hand, initially denied knowledge of the raid, but later confirmed a “search and room entry” drill had occurred and added that the campus community had not been warned.

“The drill did not involve UC students,” said Hand. “We do notify the campus more broadly when we are using buildings that are in use, particularly in use by students.”

The video, however, shows multiple pedestrians walking past the drill and the still unidentified cameraman claiming that he stumbled upon the scene while headed to class.

FEMA CAMPS!!1

633 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:35:51am

Whew.

634 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:37:40am

Romney's hat tip to Rand mini-gunned his campaign.

635 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:38:04am

Jimi Hendrix is trending.

636 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:38:28am

Wingnuts at hot air are excited about their own outrageous video of the day
Video: DoJ Civil Rights Division chief can’t commit to protecting free speech

637 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:38:39am

For morbid reasons. :)

638 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:39:28am

'Syrians tested chemical weapons firing systems'

Syria tested firing systems for poison gas shells at the country's largest chemical weapons research center at Safira, east of Aleppo, last month, German weekly Der Spiegel reported on Monday, citing statements from various witnesses.

According to the report, Iranian Revolutionary Guard officers were flown in by helicopter to witness the testing.

Several empty shells, designed to carry chemical weapons, were fired by tanks and helicopters in a desert location near the research center, Der Spiegel quoted the witnesses as saying.

639 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:42:03am

re: #636 Killgore Trout

That's old Sharia Law! stuff.

640 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:45:17am

re: #639 Kronocide

That's old Sharia Law! stuff.

I also heard a rumor on the radio last night that Glenn Beck has uncovered secret evidence that Obama is going to release Omar Abdel-Rahman (the blind cleric from the 1st world trade center bombing) to appease the Islamist rioters. Ground breaking story should be out in a day or two.

641 AK-47%  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:46:10am

re: #640 Killgore Trout

I also heard a rumor on the radio last night that Glenn Beck has uncovered secret evidence that Obama is going to release Omar Abdel-Rahman (the blind cleric from the 1st world trade center bombing) to appease the Islamist rioters. Ground breaking story should be out in a day or two.

And if he doesn't, it's because he is afraid of the wrath of Glenn Beck, right?

642 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:46:31am

re: #636 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts at hot air are excited about their own outrageous video of the day
Video: DoJ Civil Rights Division chief can’t commit to protecting free speech

[Embedded content]

Trent Franks is an idiot. That DOJ guy is also a bit confused. Here's the answer. THAT'S NOT THE JOB OF THE DOJ. THEY DON'T CREATE LAW. THEY ONLY ENFORCE IT.

643 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:50:10am
644 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:50:59am

re: #640 Killgore Trout

Is the blind sheik in Denver?

645 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:52:47am

re: #625 Dark_Falcon

It is calculation, not cowardice. Most people don't understand the issue and would be easily persuaded to see Romney as a "quitter" for saying what he said. That may happen anyways, now. But it certainly would have happened had he said what he really thinks in a major speech.

Pah. If that's his attitude, he's absolutely a quitter. I find it really hard to believe this is the "team", you'll go to the mat for, Dark.

646 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:53:11am

re: #640 Killgore Trout

I also heard a rumor on the radio last night that Glenn Beck has uncovered secret evidence that Obama is going to release Omar Abdel-Rahman (the blind cleric from the 1st world trade center bombing) to appease the Islamist rioters. Ground breaking story should be out in a day or two.

Who reported it? Glenn Beck?

647 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:55:31am

re: #614 Lidane

Heh, true. Another four years of Obama would be great business for Faux News, Limbaugh, and the rest of the RWNJ machine. Maybe that's why writers like Brooks and Kristol are pointing out that Mittens didn't just insult Democrats with his 47% remarks, but his own supporters as well.

I forgot all the churches and whackos that are making a mint promoting paranoia.--along with the firearms industry.

648 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:55:49am

re: #640 Killgore Trout

I also heard a rumor on the radio last night that Glenn Beck has uncovered secret evidence that Obama is going to release Omar Abdel-Rahman (the blind cleric from the 1st world trade center bombing) to appease the Islamist rioters. Ground breaking story should be out in a day or two.

That would do nothing to curb the violence. It makes no sense. I think Beck is full of shit. I'll wait to see if the WH says anything about that.

649 AK-47%  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:57:03am

re: #648 NJDhockeyfan

That would do nothing to curb the violence. It makes no sense. I think Beck is full of shit. I'll wait to see if the WH says anything about that.

They are too cowardly, remember?

650 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:57:16am
651 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:57:32am

re: #642 Gus

Trent Franks is an idiot. That DOJ guy is also a bit confused. Here's the answer. THAT'S NOT THE JOB OF THE DOJ. THEY DON'T CREATE LAW. THEY ONLY ENFORCE IT.

Also, they can't enforce unConstitutional blasphemy laws which would never be upheld by the courts.

652 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:58:15am

re: #644 Cannadian Club Akbar

Is the blind sheik in Denver?

I think he's in a supermax somewhere.

653 blueraven  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:58:44am

re: #648 NJDhockeyfan

That would do nothing to curb the violence. It makes no sense. I think Beck is full of shit. I'll wait to see if the WH says anything about that.

Why would they respond to anything Glenn Beck says? If they start that, it would be a full time job for someone.

654 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:59:37am
655 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:01:30am

Why am I constantly thinking of the end of Le Mis --in which the gendarme commits suicide after saying (paraphrase) 'I have lived my entire life without breaking any rules'?

A lot of scenes from the book and different versions of the movie keep popping into my head for what seems like no reason.

Any Freudian sleuthes out there?

Right now, I'm thinking that there are people who would incarcerate 1/2 the population in the US, if they were so hungry they broke the law by stealing a loaf of bread.

656 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:05:58am

re: #653 blueraven

Why would they respond to anything Glenn Beck says? If they start that, it would be a full time job for someone.

Of course they won't respond. I heard an interview with one of his researchers and the "evidence" amounts to the fact they called the white house and they declined to deny the story. Cover up!

658 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:07:56am

re: #652 Killgore Trout

I think he's in a supermax somewhere.

Medium.

[Link: www.bop.gov...]

659 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:08:51am
660 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:10:03am

re: #652 Killgore Trout

I think he's in a supermax somewhere.

Actually, he's in the Federal Medical Center, Butner (North Carolina). He's held with highly limited access to any sort of communications, but where he can receive medical care and a cell designed not to injure an old blind man.

661 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:10:10am

If the GOP was concerned with diminishing the ranks of the 47% they would not fight so hard to keep the minimum wage where it is. People working 50 hours a week at minimum wage would not qualify to pay federal income tax.

662 blueraven  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:10:44am

re: #655 ggt

Why am I constantly thinking of the end of Le Mis --in which the gendarme commits suicide after saying (paraphrase) 'I have lived my entire life without breaking any rules'?

A lot of scenes from the book and different versions of the movie keep popping into my head for what seems like no reason.

Any Freudian sleuthes out there?

Right now, I'm thinking that there are people who would incarcerate 1/2 the population in the US, if they were so hungry they broke the law by stealing a loaf of bread.

We are all Jean Valjean now
the 47%

663 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:12:18am

Really?
Former Pres. Jimmy Carter Congratulates Grandson on Unearthing Romney Video
That's an interesting development. I kind of assumed these videos ended up with Mother Jones because reputable news outlets 1) might have been concerned about the legal issues of the recordings 2) they aren't very interesting. They are happy to report on the outrageous outrage after the fact but weren't willing to manufacture it themselves.
I'm surprised to see the source of the videos, especially a high profile source, come out publicly. There might be some legal issues here.

664 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:14:17am

'Iran launches submarine, destroyer'

Tehran, Sep 18 (IANS) Iranian Navy Tuesday launched an overhauled super-heavy submarine and an indigenous destroyer in the Persian Gulf, Xinhua reported.

According to Press TV, the Tareq 901 submarine, repaired by Iranian experts, and Sahand destroyer were successfully launched in Iran's southern port of Bandar Abbas.

665 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:14:33am

re: #663 Killgore Trout

Unless there was a non-disclosure form signed as part of an agreement to go to this fundraiser, I don't see how there would be legal issues.

Mitt Romney said what he really meant. He wrote off half the country, even some of his own supporters, as lazy and shiftless losers. That's all on him.

667 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:15:29am
668 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:17:11am

re: #665 Lidane

Unless there was a non-disclosure form signed as part of an agreement to go to this fundraiser, I don't see how there would be legal issues.

Mitt Romney said what he really meant. He wrote off half the country, even some of his own supporters, as lazy and shiftless losers. That's all on him.

Both candidates prohibit cell phones and recordings and these private fundraisers (yes, Obama does it too). I'm not sure if there's a legal disclosure agreement involved. States vary with laws regarding recording someone against their will or without their knowledge. I don't know enough about it.

669 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:18:34am
670 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:18:41am

Oh oh! Now I'm conflicted. If Jimmy Carter supports something (such as terrorism, for example), I'm generally against it.

671 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:19:10am

re: #663 Killgore Trout

Really?
Former Pres. Jimmy Carter Congratulates Grandson on Unearthing Romney Video
That's an interesting development. I kind of assumed these videos ended up with Mother Jones because reputable news outlets 1) might have been concerned about the legal issues of the recordings 2) they aren't very interesting. They are happy to report on the outrageous outrage after the fact but weren't willing to manufacture it themselves.
I'm surprised to see the source of the videos, especially a high profile source, come out publicly. There might be some legal issues here.

I am pretty even handed about this stuff but the article includes this little tidbit:

Jimmy Carter, probably the best ex-President who has ever graced our country,

Need a tea spoon of salt with that one.

672 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:19:24am

Jimmy Carter!
Earth First!
Igloo White!

673 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:19:40am

re: #666 Gus

1. OMAR AHMAD RAHMAN 34892-054 74-White-M LIFE BUTNER FMC

This might be where Beck is getting his assumptions.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]

674 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:19:50am

re: #668 Killgore Trout

And it doesn't matter anyway since Romney has decided to double down on his idiocy and the whole tape is coming out today.

675 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:20:01am

I'm off.
'ave a great day all!

676 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:20:33am

re: #673 Cannadian Club Akbar

This might be where Beck is getting his assumptions.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Glenn Beck, WSJ, Fox News... same difference.

677 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:21:04am

re: #671 Petero1818

I am pretty even handed about this stuff but the article includes this little tidbit:

Need a tea spoon of salt with that one.

Carter, Bush 41 and Clinton have all done good things after office.

678 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:21:50am

The whole tape should come out. Remember how Obama badly misjudged Shirley Sherrod? (I really thought poorly about Obama for that one.) While it would be hard to imagine any context where Romney's statements would have a different meaning, I don't like hearing things out of context.

679 Spocomptonite  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:22:19am

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Timber and mining industry's been hit hard.

Also, fun fact: I live in Eastern Washington and the potato farmers round here mock the Idaho ones because our combination of soil and intensive irrigation means WA potato fields get around double the yields Idaho does.

680 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:24:17am

re: #678 ReamWorks SKG

The whole tape should come out. Remember how Obama badly misjudged Shirley Sherrod? (I really thought poorly about Obama for that one.) While it would be hard to imagine any context where Romney's statements would have a different meaning, I don't like hearing things out of context.

I agree, the whole tape should be released, right after The Willard Mechanism releases his complete tax returns for the past decade.

681 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:24:36am

re: #677 Cannadian Club Akbar

Carter, Bush 41 and Clinton have all done good things after office.

Absolutely true. But Carter also wrote a book of lies and manipulated facts to go along with his good works. I prefer Clinton and Bush 41's approach.

682 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:24:49am
683 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:25:38am

Here's an interesting blog post by a Democrat and 47%er who is voting for Romney

[Link: 3dblogger.typepad.com...]

684 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:26:07am

re: #671 Petero1818

Need a tea spoon of salt with that one.

Depends on how old you are.

I'm 39. For me, Carter's presidency is a memory blip. I was 3 when he took office and 7 when he left. I remember his sweaters and not much else. After that, he was the ex-POTUS who did commercials for Habitat for Humanity and who did a lot of charity work.

Nobody under 45 can credibly claim him as a bogeyman or as the WORST PREZNIT EVAR ZOMG. They would have been too young for his presidency to matter, or he would have only shown up in history class.

685 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:26:42am

re: #682 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

[Embedded content]

Chances are if Rush is thrilled about something then the country as a whole will probably collectively groan. Really though with Romney really stepping up the obnoxious rhetoric, I already know what Rush and the other nutcases' excuse is going to be if Romney loses and they're going to say that the problem was that Romney should have been like this from the minute he started to clinch the nomination.

686 DisturbedEma  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:29:33am

re: #684 Lidane

I remember the Hostages in Iran the most from his watch, but I think that is probably because of who raised me. . .

687 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:29:48am

LOL. Desperate wingnuts are desperate:

688 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:31:42am

re: #683 ReamWorks SKG

Here's an interesting blog post by a Democrat and 47%er who is voting for Romney

[Link: 3dblogger.typepad.com...]

He's not voting for Romney. He's voting against MoveOn.org. Which is pretty stupid.

689 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:31:59am

re: #686 DisturbedEma

I remember the Hostages in Iran the most from his watch, but I think that is probably because of who raised me. . .

I don't remember it at all. At that age, all I cared about was Girl Scouts, Saturday morning cartoons and playing with my friends after school. Whatever was on the news didn't really interest me at the time.

690 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:32:03am

I was negative six when Carter left office. Heck my folks who recently celebrated their 29th anniversary had yet to meet. Really, I can understand a little how in the first decade after Carter left office, he was used as a political boogeyman but now, thirty one years after he's left office? Herbert Hoover wasn't even a punching bag this long for Democratic candidates and he had the depression on his back(Not blaming him for the depression but Hoover was blamed)

691 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:32:14am

re: #684 Lidane

When I was in 8th grade we had a presentation about the hostage crisis. The entire skool had to go (it was in the gym). I've also read "Inside Delta Force" where Eric Haney talks about being on the rescue mission with the hostages (I also remember that) He said that President Carter took full responsibility for the crashed helos. I also remember my dad bitching about gas prices.

692 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:32:52am

re: #636 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts at hot air are excited about their own outrageous video of the day
Video: DoJ Civil Rights Division chief can’t commit to protecting free speech

[Embedded content]

That's from Jul 26, 2012. They have to reach back that for to distract from Romney's foot-in-mouth episode?

693 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:33:29am

re: #692 wrenchwench

That's from Jul 26, 2012. They have to reach back that for to distract from Romney's foot-in-mouth episode?

Well the blog is called Hot Air.

694 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:33:46am

re: #676 Gus

Glenn Beck, WSJ, Fox News... same difference.

Not on this. The WSJ piece is just a normal news article noting that President Morsi of Egypt has promised his base he'll pressure the US to release the terrorist slimeball. Beck was alleging that Obama might actually do that. Pretty big difference, if you ask me.

695 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:33:48am

re: #687 Lidane

LOL. Desperate wingnuts are desperate:

[Embedded content]

I'll say. Jonah Goldberg and the mentally unstable Brandon Darby. Where do they scrape up these miscreants? The local Greyhound bus station?

696 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:34:32am

re: #694 Dark_Falcon

Not on this. The WSJ piece is just a normal news article noting that President Morsi of Egypt has promised his base he'll pressure the US to release the terrorist slimeball. Beck was alleging that Obama might actually do that. Pretty big difference, if you ask me.

I am already aware of the situation and don't need to go to Murdoch's WSJ

697 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:35:58am

re: #696 Gus

I am already aware of the situation and don't need to go to Murdoch's WSJ

OK, fine. But CCA was just trying to be helpful and he didn't link to a crazy piece. That's all.

699 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:36:52am

Heh:

700 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:37:07am

re: #687 Lidane

LOL. Desperate wingnuts are desperate:

[Embedded content]

Maybe Jonah should go beat up some young socialists. It would make him feel better perhaps. Seriously what a desperate whiny little dick.

701 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:37:13am

It must be nice when your opponent writes your own attack ads for you.

702 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:38:05am

Today's Matt Bors.
Image: 916.png

703 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:38:38am

Can someone tell this man and his 'stache to STFU?

ZOMG Creeping Sharia! Eleventy!

704 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:39:15am

re: #702 darthstar

Today's Matt Bors.
Image: 916.png

Hm. Makes me wonder if they did keep some of OBL's genetic material. Probably did, the more that I think on it...

705 ShaunP  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:39:54am

re: #701 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

It must be nice when your opponent writes your own attack ads for you.

[Embedded content]


He didn't build that!

706 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:39:57am

re: #703 Lidane

Can someone tell this man and his 'stache to STFU?

[Embedded content]

This is Romney's top guy on foreign policy too. Really what the fuck is Bolton talking about. Stupid ass.

707 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:40:05am

re: #703 Lidane

Can someone tell this man and his 'stache to STFU?

[Embedded content]

Awesome to hear this coming from a party that gets angry when stores say "Happy Holidays."

708 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:40:10am

re: #688 Coracle

He also says he doesn't believe the GOP will do anything to stop women from getting abortions or birth control and goes off about Catholic institutions being forced to pay for both. Sigh. He obviously hasn't looked at all the bills they've introduced,how they've actively sought to shut down Planned Parenthood and talk about getting rid of it regularly(which he mentions as the alternative to making Catholics pay for something they don't believe in),how difficult it's become to get an abortion in a large part of the country,etc,etc.

And,just as a general question,is there such a thing as a Libertarian that actually leans to the left on most issues? I've never heard of one,they all seem to lean right and take the GOP's side on most issues and policy.

709 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:40:55am

re: #664 NJDhockeyfan

'Iran launches submarine, destroyer'

The sub is a Kilo-class boat, built in Russia. Iran is just advertising that they can refit subs on their own now.

710 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:41:21am

re: #704 Mocking Jay

Hm. Makes me wonder if they did keep some of OBL's genetic material. Probably did, the more that I think on it...

This guy hopes so!!!
[Link: blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...]
H/T to whoever posted this the other day.

711 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:41:42am
712 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:42:17am

re: #558 Dark_Falcon

Justly so. You know of the Hamas Charter and the group's rejection of Israel's existence, I trust? Hamas often glories in its terrorism and if an electorate votes into power a group with that sort of background and attitude, then we damn straight should cut off aid. Because they have sent us a clear sign that they favor terrorism over peace.

Hamas was elected because they provide services to the Palestinian people, not because they reject Israel. Just like you voting for Romney because he represents Republican ideals you cherish, despite the aspects of the Republican party that hurt you personally.

It was an opportunity to bridge the divide between Israel and Hamas and possibly work toward softening their view on Israel, and it was dismissed without even trying. Bush (and Netanyahu and now apparently Romney) want Hamas to stay in the enemy category...it's good for business (if that business is military in nature).

713 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:42:29am

re: #701 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

It must be nice when your opponent writes your own attack ads for you.

[Embedded content]

Wow, they got right on that. They must have filmed it this morning.

714 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:43:13am

re: #700 HappyWarrior

Maybe Jonah should go beat up some young socialists. It would make him feel better perhaps. Seriously what a desperate whiny little dick.

That's Glen Greenwald who dreams of beating people up. Jonah Goldberg isn't that sort of couch commando, and does not talk like an Internet Tough Guy.

715 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:43:14am

re: #707 Mocking Jay

Awesome to hear this coming from a party that gets angry when stores say "Happy Holidays."

God, I hate that whiny complaint and I was really upset when I attended a Christmas mass a couple years ago that the priest used his pulpit to whine about that. Honestly, if someone says Happy Holidays, Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, or whatever to me, I'm not going to be offended. It's not PC run amok, it's people trying to be polite.

716 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:43:42am

re: #701 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

It must be nice when your opponent writes your own attack ads for you.

[Embedded content]

Romney's written so many attack ads for President Obama to use that, to use them all, we'd have to put up with new ads being aired well into 2015.

717 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:44:28am

re: #708 A Mom Anon

That whole post rings hollow for me, if not false. He spends the first half of it setting up his bona fides 'I'm a liberal, really!', and the second half undermining them. Maybe I'm cynical because I've seen too many fake "former democrats" but this one looks way too transparent.

718 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:44:36am

re: #713 makeitstop

Wow, they got right on that. They must have filmed it this morning.

Or last night. While Mitt was flailing around in his flop sweat, they were all over it.

Hell, I got the obligatory e-mail from the Obama campaign about the 47% remarks last night BEFORE Mitt's presser. They're ruthless in their efficiency and discipline.

719 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:44:45am

Virginia - part of the 47%

720 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:46:15am

re: #703 Lidane

Can someone tell this man and his 'stache to STFU?

[Embedded content]

Derp.

721 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:46:59am

Jackson: Once We Solve Our Moral Problems, God Will Again Bless Us Economically

Harry Jackson appeared on "The 700 Club" today to discuss the importance of praying for America ahead of the upcoming election and to participate in Pat Robertson's aptly named "Pray for America" event that he is hosting all week.

While discussing the effort with Robertson, Jackson said that our nation's economic difficulties are all rooted in our moral and spiritual problems and that "when we get things right spiritually, God will lift this hedge of protection around us and also economics will begin to thrive again":

So God runs a protection racket apparently.

722 erik_t  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:47:41am

re: #721 Kragar

Jackson: Once We Solve Our Moral Problems, God Will Again Bless Us Economically

As usual, Free Market Baby Jesus' dad is a real dick.

Who wants to worship a dick of a god?

723 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:47:44am

re: #711 Mocking Jay

Hilariously, "Already Gone" by The Eagles just came up on my shuffle. Seems fitting.

724 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:47:55am

re: #714 Dark_Falcon

That's Glen Greenwald who dreams of beating people up. Jonah Goldberg isn't that sort of couch commando, and does talk like an Internet Tough Guy.

Yeah, you're wrong.

The fact that young people think socialism is better than capitalism. That’s proof of what social scientists call their stupidity and their ignorance. And that’s something that conservatives have to beat out of them. Either literally or figuratively as far as I’m concerned.

725 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:48:09am

re: #714 Dark_Falcon

That's Glen Greenwald who dreams of beating people up. Jonah Goldberg isn't that sort of couch commando, and does talk like an Internet Tough Guy.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
No, that was Jonah.

726 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:48:29am

holy shit

727 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:49:05am

re: #725 HappyWarrior

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
No, that was Jonah.

Doughy pantload.

728 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:49:11am

re: #709 Dark_Falcon

Those will make excellent reefs for the fish soon after the very first armed confrontation.

729 allegro  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:50:32am

re: #708 A Mom Anon

He also says he doesn't believe the GOP will do anything to stop women from getting abortions or birth control and goes off about Catholic institutions being forced to pay for both. Sigh. He obviously hasn't looked at all the bills they've introduced,how they've actively sought to shut down Planned Parenthood and talk about getting rid of it regularly(which he mentions as the alternative to making Catholics pay for something they don't believe in),how difficult it's become to get an abortion in a large part of the country,etc,etc.

And,just as a general question,is there such a thing as a Libertarian that actually leans to the left on most issues? I've never heard of one,they all seem to lean right and take the GOP's side on most issues and policy.

There were several things that make me go, "Hmmm..." One is that the government has nothing to do with paying for "free" contraception. Insurance companies are paying it from the premiums paid by those they insure. This guy talks as though he is aware of political realities - in a way to justify his mystifying support for Romney - and this is a basic fact. So he's aggressively ignorant or just lying.

That quad scale thing on his blog is different from what I've seen. He uses a "liberarian" descriptive rather than "authoritarian" as I've seen used. They say pretty different things to me.

730 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:50:35am

doughy pantload

Moniker given to National Review columnist Jonah Goldberg by the left-wing blogosphere.

Have you checked out Doughy Pantload's book, Liberal Fascism? What a pile of shit.

or

Common liberal-blog nickname for "Liberal Fascism" author Jonah Goldberg. Coined May 2004 by norbizness of norbizness.com.

"Some people seem to think we hate Jonah Goldberg.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. First of all, the Doughy Pantload has given us hundreds of hours of entertainment; in his official role as Village Idiot of the Internet, he never ceases to amuse us with his falling off of walls, tumbling into ditches, and trying to come up with smart things to say when he’d really rather be at home watching Deep Space Nine DVDs."

731 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:50:40am

re: #726 Mocking Jay

See? Ruthless and disciplined. They're not letting up at all or allowing themselves to coast on Mitt's fuck-ups.

732 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:51:46am
733 dragonath  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:52:02am

re: #726 Mocking Jay

You know, I wasn't sure how much this story was going to stick in the morning, being sort of abstract and all, but it's a great rhetorical tool.

734 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:52:15am

re: #732 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

I keep reading those with an Italian accent.

735 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:52:45am

re: #734 Mocking Jay

I keep reading those with an Italian accent.

Close enough!

736 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:53:02am

re: #712 darthstar

Hamas was elected because they provide services to the Palestinian people, not because they reject Israel. Just like you voting for Romney because he represents Republican ideals you cherish, despite the aspects of the Republican party that hurt you personally.

It was an opportunity to bridge the divide between Israel and Hamas and possibly work toward softening their view on Israel, and it was dismissed without even trying. Bush (and Netanyahu and now apparently Romney) want Hamas to stay in the enemy category...it's good for business (if that business is military in nature).

That is likely too simplistic a view of the Hamas victory in the Gaza elections. It is true that Hamas made political gains attending to the needs of the Gaza society that were being ignored by corruption in the PA. And it is true that Hamas in Gaza provides many social services. But it is equally true that Hamas enjoys a great deal of support in Gaza BECAUSE of its policies with respect to Israel. Hamas made no bones about this during the elections refering to the PA as collaborators etc....

737 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:53:13am

re: #728 Daniel Ballard

Those will make excellent reefs for the fish soon after the very first armed confrontation.

Assuming they're fighting us. If they snuck up on a Saudi vessel, I'd say it would be the Saudi ship headed to the bottom. The Iranian Navy is much better trained than its Saudi counterpart.

738 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:53:18am

re: #728 Daniel Ballard

Those will make excellent reefs for the fish soon after the very first armed confrontation.

Guess Iran has never heard of a depth charge.

739 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:53:22am

Here’s What Inspires the GOP’s ‘Entitlement’ Perception

Actual logic of this article: people gulled by scams that claims the federal government will help them pay bills. This shows that people really do feel entitled and dependent.

This MSNBC article describes “tens of thousands” falling for the scam. Here’s another article about the scam in Florida, where “about 4,500 customers have tried to use false bank information provided by the scammers to pay their utility bill.”

This sort of scam only works if there is a significant pool of people who find it completely plausible that the federal government, and this president, would pay their utility bill for them.

Also, a clip of a black lady talking about getting free stuff.

Yep. Great thinking there.

740 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:54:05am

re: #724 makeitstop

Yeah, you're wrong.

Honestly, aside from the obvious it was such a stupid thing to say. Despite what Goldberg and many conservatives believe about younger voters, we're not really that far to the left as a whole on economics. It's the social issues that make us lean left in the broad scheme of things which is why Romney's derping on social issues is so stupid for his party going forward.

741 bubba zanetti  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:54:18am

re: #726 Mocking Jay

Note where the scissors start cutting in that map - matches up to this one:

[Link: twitpic.com...]

Doubly brutal.

742 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:55:53am

re: #741 bubba zanetti

Note where the scissors start cutting in that map - matches up to this one:

[Link: twitpic.com...]

Doubly brutal.

Yeah, I noticed that. They're on their game.

743 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:56:14am

re: #719 darthstar

Virginia - part of the 47%

[Embedded content]

Obama's winning the ad wars here. Seen a lot more ads by him or done on behalf of him than Romney. The good news though is as Obama does better here, the chances are better that Kaine will beat Allen. Really, after "Macaca" the last thing George Allen needs is to be rewarded with a second chance in the US Senate.

744 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:57:53am

re: #506 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. I actually saw The Postman in the theater, and the overly-long movie annoyed me enough that I vowed to never watch another"Kevin Costner movie" again.

Half a day late, the novel was much better than the movie as is usually the case.

745 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:59:18am
746 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:59:40am

Bill Kristol: Romney Remarks ‘Arrogant And Stupid’

"It remains important for the country that Romney wins in November (unless he chooses to step down and we get the Ryan-Rubio ticket we deserve!)," Kristol wrote on Tuesday. "But that shouldn't blind us to the fact that Romney's comments, like those of Obama four years ago, are arrogant and stupid.

Its important that he wins, but he should really step down, and he's an asshole. Nice work there.

747 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:59:43am

With any luck there will come a point where the Rep super PACs will realize that they'll get more bang for their buck buying a few super-yachts and hosting bi-monthly 1% parties than wasting tens of millions of dollars trying to buy the presidency and congress. Too much to hope for, probably, but to my mind, that'd be win-win for most everybody.

748 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 9:59:53am

re: #738 Cannadian Club Akbar

Guess Iran has never heard of a depth charge.

[Embedded content]

They've heard, but the Kilo-class as built is very quiet. It remains to be seen if Iran was able to retain that lack of noise in its refit.

749 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:00:22am

Disgraced & banned Lizard Barrett Brown has been raided again this time for threatening a Federal officer. Ooops.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

750 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:03:30am

re: #746 Kragar

Bill Kristol: Romney Remarks ‘Arrogant And Stupid’

Its important that he wins, but he should really step down, and he's an asshole. Nice work there.

Damn. Even Kristol...

751 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:03:31am

re: #749 Daniel Ballard

Disgraced & banned Lizard Barrett Brown has been raided again this time for threatening a Federal officer. Ooops.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Geeks with a smart mouth don't fare well in prison.

752 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:04:01am

re: #749 Daniel Ballard

Disgraced & banned Lizard Barrett Brown has been raided again this time for threatening a Federal officer. Ooops.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

He's looking at some prison time.

753 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:04:28am

Romney Just Can’t Sustain Any Momentum

One by one, Mitt Romney has failed to capitalize on some of his campaign’s biggest opportunities to gain on President Obama in the polls, let alone sustain any momentum.

The chart below is based on Gallup’s daily tracking polls, which are conducted over seven-day periods, beginning on April 29 and concluding on Sept. 15. Along the trend lines, notable events have been highlighted.

Image: 9.17.2012.today.png

754 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:05:07am
755 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:05:26am

re: #750 Mocking Jay

Damn. Even Kristol...

In grudging defense of Kristol, he did pounce on Romney's troops omission at the RNC but yeah there really is no way to defend the exact context of Romney's remarks. Well unless you're Rush Limbaugh and you actually have convinced yourself that hating on half of the nation is good policy but guys like Kristol even though they're right wing hacks understand the process.

756 bubba zanetti  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:05:53am

Expect to see this math in a commercial near you:

[Link: squashed.tumblr.com...]

757 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:06:03am

re: #754 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

I still don't get this. I think they need to back off and let the investigation take its course before commenting further. Most mobs dont have RPGs. Even in that neck of the woods.

758 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:07:35am

re: #754 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

If the causes are under investigation then how can they conclude that it was not premeditated. That Tweet is illogical.

759 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:08:05am

We see no reason to blame the pilot however the cause of the crash is still under investigation.

//

760 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:08:07am

re: #754 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

Jay Carney needs to be given a new set of talking points on that attack. It was clearly planned and its been clear for some time. This is just a silly unforced error.

761 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:09:57am

Mitt will talk about the video today at 4:00, in the friendly confines of Fox News.

Maybe they've cooked up some new talking points by now. I expect Cavuto to go heavy on 'bitter clingers.'

762 dragonath  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:09:58am

I'm starting to think there might be a real chance to get rid of some of the more radical members of congress this time around. Bachmann, King, and Joe Walsh, among others.

763 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:10:06am

OK, we can go back to hating Gallup again. Obama's lead has fallen to 1 percent currently.

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

764 Petero1818  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:10:20am

re: #756 bubba zanetti

Expect to see this math in a commercial near you:

[Link: squashed.tumblr.com...]

I mentioned this earlier. They fight like hell to keep the minimum wage down, and the result is a large number of people who don't earn enough to pay income taxes. Then they bitch and moan about it. The reality is they are all flat taxers. End of story.

765 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:10:55am

re: #763 Gus

OK, we can go back to hating Gallup again. Obama's lead has fallen to 1 percent currently.

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

That's because the 47% isn't being polled as they don't count.

766 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:11:43am

re: #765 darthstar

That's because the 47% isn't being polled as they don't count.

Higgggghoooo. [Rimshot]

767 erik_t  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:13:20am

re: #758 Gus

If the causes are under investigation then how can they conclude that it was not premeditated. That Tweet is illogical.

They didn't conclude that. The word 'conclusion' is completely absent. They said they have seen no evidence; the latter statement is entirely reasonable in light of a continuing investigation.

768 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:13:55am

re: #762 dragonath

I'm starting to think there might be a real chance to get rid of some of the more radical members of congress this time around. Bachmann, King, and Joe Walsh, among others.

I think there's a real chance with Bachmann and Walsh. King, I don't know but I did see that the former governor and now agriculture secretary's wife is running against him. Not sure how popular Vilsack is in King's part of Iowa and it was pointed out to me last night that King is somewhat popular "because he drives liberals crazy."

769 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:14:06am

re: #767 erik_t

They didn't conclude that. The word 'conclusion' is completely absent. They said they have seen no evidence; the latter statement is entirely reasonable in light of a continuing investigation.

I don't think so. If that's the case then they're indicating a bias in that investigation.

770 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:15:19am

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

Jay Carney needs to be given a new set of talking points on that attack. It was clearly planned and its been clear for some time. This is just a silly unforced error.

Yeah, bull.

White House press secretary Jay Carney said it was too early to judge whether the Benghazi attack was planned.

"I know that this is being investigated, and we're working with the Libyan government to investigate the incident. I would not want to speculate on that at this time," he said. Several Libyan security guards also were killed.

Rogers, R-Mich., said U.S. intelligence had not yet determined who was responsible, but added, "Our list is narrowing."

"When you see (such an attack), it wasn't some folks who had some guns in their garage and said let's shoot up the consulate," Rogers said in an interview Wednesday.

771 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:16:11am

Have we attained outrage yet?

772 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:16:21am

John Sunnunu on MSNBC currently making an even bigger ass of himself.

773 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:17:06am
774 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:17:14am

re: #767 erik_t

They didn't conclude that. The word 'conclusion' is completely absent. They said they have seen no evidence; the latter statement is entirely reasonable in light of a continuing investigation.

the attackers fired a covering barrage and moved in teams. They knew where the ambassador's safe house was. A force which does and knows all of that has planned and trained for their operation.

This is a flumox by whoever gave Carney his talking points, no more, no less.

775 erik_t  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:17:26am

re: #769 Gus

I don't think so. If that's the case then they're indicating a bias in that investigation.

That's an entirely reasonable opinion on your part, but your previous statement is simply untrue.

776 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:17:34am

Romney Adviser: 47 Percent Comment Was A Political Analysis

"[W]hen he says he's not worried ... he's talking politics," Buchanan said. "He's analyzing the voter base. How do I reach my 50 point plus one vote? … [W]hat he's saying is there are people out there who don't pay taxes, unfortunately, they're in a position where they're dependent on government, and those individuals are -- those Americans are voting for Barack Obama. They're in his backyard. And so those are people that I'm not going to be able to reach with my 20 percent tax cut or my cuts in spending, because they would be concerned. It's not going to impact them getting a 20 percent tax cut. They don't pay taxes. So that's what he was talking about here."

Buchanan said that Romney is "clearly concerned" about the so-called 47 percent and that "his whole policy is designed to help those people get moved back into the middle class or get into the middle class if they haven't been there before."

777 dragonath  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:17:35am

re: #768 HappyWarrior

I'm just hoping enough Republicans come to their senses, for sanity and health perhaps. I'm not getting my hopes up, though.

778 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:17:48am

Here you go, Gus...outrage.

779 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:18:17am

Back later.

780 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:18:23am

re: #775 erik_t

That's an entirely reasonable opinion on your part, but your previous statement is simply untrue.

I'll wait for the final investigation which may take months. Until then I'm not going by any press secretary.

781 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:19:09am

re: #776 Kragar

Romney Adviser: 47 Percent Comment Was A Political Analysis

Political anal, yes. It's a good thing Romney didn't talk to Eastwood's chair, because he manages to fuck himself on a regular basis.

782 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:20:17am

re: #774 Dark_Falcon

the attackers fired a covering barrage and moved in teams. They knew where the ambassador's safe house was. A force which does and knows all of that has planned and trained for their operation.

This is a flumox by whoever gave Carney his talking points, no more, no less.

Come off it, Dark. Don't talk like you have all - or even most - of the intelligence. The Whitehouse - and anyone else - would be stupid to come out with a flat conclusion before the investigation is done, even if the evidence makes lit largely foregone. You don't shoot your mouth off until you know you're right in a case like this - or else you run the risk of shooting your foot off.

783 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:22:25am

Romney: ‘There’s Just No Way’ To Achieve Middle East Peace

ROMNEY: I’m torn by two perspectives in this regard. One is the one which I’ve had for some time, which is that the Palestinians have no interest whatsoever in establishing peace, and that the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish. Now why do I say that? Some might say, let’s see the Palestinians have the West Bank, and have security and set up a separate nation for the Palestinians. And then come a couple of thorny questions. [...]

And I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say, “There’s just no way.” And so what you do is you say, “You move things along the best way you can.” You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that this is going to remain an unsolved problem. We live with it in China and Taiwan. All right, we have a potentially volatile situation but we sort of live with it, and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it. We don’t go to war to try and resolve it imminently.

Great foreign policy there.

784 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:23:14am

re: #782 Coracle

Come off it, Dark. Don't talk like you have all - or even most - of the intelligence. The Whitehouse - and anyone else - would be stupid to come out with a flat conclusion before the investigation is done, even if the evidence makes lit largely foregone. You don't shoot your mouth off until you know you're right in a case like this - or else you run the risk of shooting your foot off.

Not really. You can claim a country is in possession of WMDs when they really aren't, invade them, be proven wrong, and suffer no ill effects from it.

785 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:23:40am

re: #783 Kragar

Romney: ‘There’s Just No Way’ To Achieve Middle East Peace

Great foreign policy there.

No wonder why he thinks foreign policy is a distraction. Yep this is just like punting the ball and hoping for a fumble on the punt return. Moron Romney.

786 Gus  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:24:05am

re: #783 Kragar

Romney: ‘There’s Just No Way’ To Achieve Middle East Peace

Great foreign policy there.

That's subjective.

787 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:24:28am

re: #738 Cannadian Club Akbar

Guess Iran has never heard of a depth charge.

[Embedded content]

There are Farsi subtitles available for the Director's Cut of "Das Boot"...

788 Coracle  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:24:34am

re: #783 Kragar

All right, we have a potentially volatile situation but we sort of live with it, and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it.

Somebody has to has to make a "HOPE" Fairey-style poster for Romney now and stick that quote under it.

789 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:24:50am
790 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:25:05am

Randy Newman is not what I would call a subtle lyricist.

Lyrics at this link.

791 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:25:08am

re: #783 Kragar

Romney: ‘There’s Just No Way’ To Achieve Middle East Peace

Great foreign policy there.

Just go along and hope Israel and the Palis eventually come to an understanding?

This man isn't running for president, he's running to be an absentee landlord.

792 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:26:10am
793 dragonath  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:26:37am

Kick that ball, full of liquid nitrogylcerin.

794 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:26:51am

re: #790 wrenchwench

Randy Newman is not what I would call a subtle lyricist.

[Embedded content]

Lyrics at this link.

Thanks for that!!!
-Fox and Friends
/

795 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:27:05am

re: #782 Coracle

Come off it, Dark. Don't talk like you have all - or even most - of the intelligence. The Whitehouse - and anyone else - would be stupid to come out with a flat conclusion before the investigation is done, even if the evidence makes lit largely foregone. You don't shoot your mouth off until you know you're right in a case like this - or else you run the risk of shooting your foot off.

Couch commandos are very good at recreating battle scenes from their imagination.

796 Sionainn  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:30:54am

re: #776 Kragar

Romney Adviser: 47 Percent Comment Was A Political Analysis

If that's the case, that the 47% who don't pay income tax are voting for Obama, I'm predicting a landslide. Just add all the income tax paying Obama supporters like me and my circle of friends and family to the 47% and there is no way that Romney wins.

797 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:32:31am

Looks like everyone is starting to point out the Scooby-doo villain defense.



798 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:32:51am

Fox teases, abandons Romney discussion

"There are some new questions this morning about a leaked video of Governor Romney speaking at a private fundraiser. So are the attacks against him fair or were those comments taken out of context? We'll talk about it,” "America's Newsroom" host MacCallum said about five minutes before the show wrapped.

“America’s Newsroom” then went to a commercial break and MacCallum and co-host Bill Hemmer returned with less than a minute left before “Happening Now” kicked off. The teased discussion about Romney's video never materialized, and viewers instead watched the hosts chat briefly about their temporary studio.

799 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:33:48am

re: #798 Kragar

Fox teases, abandons Romney discussion

Your liberal media at work, folks.

///

800 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:34:31am

Shit...Romney's intrade trending would make a great line to ski if it was covered with snow.

Image: chart13479850829991333.png

801 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:35:11am
802 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:35:42am

POLLitico

Do you think Mitt Romney's videotaped comments at a May fundraiser are a game-changer?
Results are based on 2867 votes
Yep. 67%
Nah. 28%
I'm not sure. 3%

803 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:35:58am
804 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:36:32am

re: #801 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

Boom goes the dynamite.

805 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:36:51am

re: #801 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

Shit...

806 darthstar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:37:28am

re: #804 Targetpractice

Boom goes the dynamite.

Nope...the courts are going to kick it around so the law won't be overturned until after the election.

807 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:37:42am

re: #803 darthstar

Cowards.

You know they had someone pull them aside at the break, "What the hell do you jackasses think you're doing? Chrissy, go long on the break while we clear this up!"

808 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:39:14am

re: #655 ggt

[snip]

Right now, I'm thinking that there are people who would incarcerate 1/2 the population in the US, if they were so hungry they broke the law by stealing a loaf of bread.

For life if it was their 3rd time.

809 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:39:56am

re: #806 darthstar

Nope...the courts are going to kick it around so the law won't be overturned until after the election.

Frak!

810 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:41:37am

re: #805 darthstar

Shit...

[Embedded content]

Doh!

811 bubba zanetti  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:41:48am

Spotted on the twitterz:

Please please please let the Taxed Enough Already party turn into the Half Of The Country Oughta Pay party #hotcops #arresteddevelopment

812 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:42:14am

re: #776 Kragar

Romney Adviser: 47 Percent Comment Was A Political Analysis

there are people out there who don't pay taxes, unfortunately, they're in a position where they're dependent on government, and those individuals are -- those Americans are voting for Barack Obama.

I do not pay taxes but I am NOT dependent on government (I am on no assistance programs and although my annual refund is nice I can get by fine without it). Pretty stupid to be making assumptions based on people simply because they don't pay taxes.

Sure, not ONE SINGLE PERSON in that 47% is a Republican, right Mitt?

813 Amory Blaine  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:42:35am

re: #789 Mocking Jay

Heh.

Mitt isn't even ready for a 3 PM phone call

Good link. It points out how the building effort to blame a scapegoat for Romney's failings is now falling flat because, well, Romney is solely responsible for his failing campaign.

814 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:43:15am

re: #721 Kragar

Jackson: Once We Solve Our Moral Problems, God Will Again Bless Us Economically

So God runs a protection racket apparently.

So, the Islamists are right apparently. Because this is why they do what they do.

815 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:43:25am

re: #811 bubba zanetti

Spotted on the twitterz:

They're starting to. I'm starting to see my conservative/GOP friends on FB pretend like the 47% that Mitt slammed are "other" people. They don't get that he slammed them, too.

816 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:43:35am

re: #806 darthstar

Nope...the courts are going to kick it around so the law won't be overturned until after the election.

Hmmm...if the law was overturned...would that mean they'd have to redo the vote in that state?

817 Sionainn  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:43:55am

re: #812 dragonfire1981

there are people out there who don't pay taxes, unfortunately, they're in a position where they're dependent on government, and those individuals are -- those Americans are voting for Barack Obama.

I do not pay taxes but I am NOT dependent on government (I am on no assistance programs and although my annual refund is nice I can get by fine without it). Pretty stupid to be making assumptions based on people simply because they don't pay taxes.

Sure, not ONE SINGLE PERSON in that 47% is a Republican, right Mitt?

If you get a refund, aren't you paying taxes?

818 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:45:37am

re: #817 Sionainn

If you get a refund, aren't you paying taxes?

If you get a refund, you overpaid, so yeah.

819 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:45:43am

re: #817 Sionainn

If you get a refund, aren't you paying taxes?

Oops should have clarified. I don't like having to pay the government money so I have my employer withhold MORE in taxes than what should be given my tax bracket. That way I always get a little refund check at the start of each year. I've heard the "interest free loan to the government" argument but I like doing it my way.

By "not pay taxes" I mean that I never end up having to pay the Feds money come tax time. I can see how that's a tad confusing.

820 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:46:38am
821 Sionainn  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:46:55am

re: #819 dragonfire1981

Oops should have clarified. I don't like having to pay the government money so I have my employer withhold MORE in taxes than what should be given my tax bracket. That way I always get a little refund check at the start of each year. I've heard the "interest free loan to the government" argument but I like doing it my way.

So you do indeed pay income tax. The government gives you back the amount you overpaid.

822 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:47:00am

re: #819 dragonfire1981

Oops should have clarified. I don't like having to pay the government money so I have my employer withhold MORE in taxes than what should be given my tax bracket. That way I always get a little refund check at the start of each year. I've heard the "interest free loan to the government" argument but I like doing it my way.

Yeah, I tried it the other way for a year or two and its screwed me, so I'm switching back.

823 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:47:38am

re: #815 Lidane

They're starting to. I'm starting to see my conservative/GOP friends on FB pretend like the 47% that Mitt slammed are "other" people. They don't get that he slammed them, too.

"So what if I took unemployment? Or I qualify for the EITC? Damnit, I'm not some welfare queen!!"

Ugh.

824 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:49:00am

re: #748 Dark_Falcon

Plus where it will be deployed, the Persian Gulf and Straits of Hormuz, have seriously lousy sonar conditions. Perfect for a Kilo.

825 Amory Blaine  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:49:12am

re: #815 Lidane

They're starting to. I'm starting to see my conservative/GOP friends on FB pretend like the 47% that Mitt slammed are "other" people. They don't get that he slammed them, too.

This. It's always "the other". I can't tell you how many people I know basically living hand to mouth who think they are middle class.

826 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:51:42am

re: #815 Lidane

They're starting to. I'm starting to see my conservative/GOP friends on FB pretend like the 47% that Mitt slammed are "other" people. They don't get that he slammed them, too.

Long before Eastwood's invisible Obama, there was Reagan's invisible horde of welfare mothers and young bucks. That's set not just the narrative, but created a trope of what "the government dependent" look like in this country.

I'll bet you your associates that are working themselves into a "I'm the 53%" tizzy are still using the Reagan paradigm to conceptualize, and are concieving of that 47% as being in welfare mom terms.

827 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:54:14am

re: #820 Lidane

Also: Robin Hood's opponents were feudal overlords extracting taxes from the poor to finance their luxurious lifestyles, while failing in their obligation as rulers to spread the money around.

828 Lidane  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:57:05am

re: #826 The Ghost of a Flea

I'll bet you your associates that are working themselves into a "I'm the 53%" tizzy are still using the Reagan paradigm to conceptualize, and are concieving of that 47% as being in welfare mom terms.

Oh, they are. They're imagining the stereotypical welfare mom with 10 kids and living in luxury on the dole. It doesn't dawn on them that seniors on Social Security, soldiers in combat zones that don't pay taxes and vets who use the VA would all fall under Mitt's lazy, shiftless 47%.

829 Kragar  Tue, Sep 18, 2012 10:57:16am

re: #827 The Ghost of a Flea

Also: Robin Hood's opponents were feudal overlords extracting taxes from the poor to finance their luxurious lifestyles, while failing in their obligation as rulers to spread the money around.

So nothing at all like today.
/


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2021-06-05 2:51 pm PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Indigenous Americans Ruled Democratically Long Before the U.S. DidDemocracy: it was older and more widespread than we thought. At the Oconee site, called Cold Springs, artifacts were excavated before the valley became an aquatic playground. Now, new older-than-expected radiocarbon dates for those museum-held finds push back the origin ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Views: 1,291 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 3 •