Herman Cain Email: The Media Are ‘Obsessed’

Damage control watch
Politics • Views: 25,359

Herman Cain’s campaign sent out the following email to their list today, immediately after Sharon Bialek’s press conference finished:

I am a serious person, seeking the opportunity to do a serious and very important job. Our nation has very serious problems, particularly of an economic nature, and Barack Obama does not have the skill, knowledge or will to solve them.

I do.

Unfortunately, the media-driven process by which one must seek this opportunity is fundamentally unserious. I have touched on this before - the emphasis on “gaffes,” gotcha questions and time devoted to trivial nonsense - and everyone knows the process only became further detached from relevance this week as the media published anonymous, ancient, vague personal allegations against me.

Once this kind of nonsense starts, the media’s rules say you have to act in a certain way. I am well aware of these rules. And I refuse to play by them.

There are several reasons for this. One is that, lest anyone forget, we actually have serious matters to talk about. Since the media went bananas over this so-called story, my schedule has not changed in the slightest. I have continued to make all planned public appearances. I have continued to answer questions about my 9-9-9 tax reform plan. I have continued to do everything else that our strategy proscribes.

Another reason I refuse to play by these rules is that, by doing it my way, I’m getting much better results. My fundraising has skyrocketed since all this nonsense began. Just this weekend, the Washington Post has come out with a new poll - taken since all this started - showing me in the lead nationally, with my numbers on the rise.

The media may be obsessed with this business, but the voters are not. And I am not.

But there’s another crucially important reason I refuse to play by these rules: These rules stink. Can the process by which we pick the leader of our nation be any more absurd? I’m not talking about the primary process or the role of the electorate. There is nothing wrong with that. I am talking about the media’s trivializing of such an important matter.

Consider: I held various executive positions in corporate America for several decades. I had thousands of employees working for me. I can’t even begin to recall how many conversations I had with people during that time, how many directives I gave, how much friendly banter might have taken place.

I also had to make tough decisions during these years. I turned around a poorly performing region for Burger King, then turned around a struggling Godfather’s Pizza organization. At some point during a career like this, someone will not like things you do, or how you do it. Someone will complain.
That is just the nature of things if you’ve ever done much in your life.

So once the editors of Politico started looking for people who would make claims against me, their chances of finding a few takers were probably about 100 percent. These people will not give their names. The so-called “witnesses” who purportedly corroborated their stories also will not give their names. That’s about what you would expect when people are engaging in a “hatchet job,” as it’s been described by Joseph Fassler, who was chairman of the National Restaurant Association board when I was there.

It’s easy to make accusations when, by virtue of your anonymity, you don’t have to be held accountable for the claims you’re making. It’s easy to publish them when, like Politico, you don’t follow basic rules of journalism by naming your sources or giving any details whatsoever about what supposedly happened.

But the process by which we choose our presidents has become so warped that, when something like this happens, the media and political strategists start grading you on whether you play an absurd game by their absurd rules.

When someone stops you on the street and hits you with an accusation like this, they subsequently write a story about the look in your eyes, and how many seconds it took you to speak some words in response.

They go to “crisis management experts” who offer the usual sage wisdom about “getting all the information out” - as if you can get any “information” out (aside from telling them nothing happened, which they don’t want to hear) in response to allegations that are unsourced and nonspecific.

Then, when you haven’t “calmed the firestorm” - if only because the people wielding the blow-torches have no intention of putting them out - more experts are put on the air to say this proves you are “not ready for prime time.”

Maybe that would matter if I was trying out for the cast of Saturday Night Live. But this should be a slightly more serious undertaking than that.

Contrary to the belief of experts, so wise and learned in the ways of politics, I do know what the established rules say I am supposed to do. I simply refuse to do it. That’s because the rules are ridiculous, and they produce leaders like Barack Obama, who play the political game like experts but govern like complete incompetents.

The nation needs its tax structure reformed, its spending brought under control, its debt reduced and its overall governing structure made far more responsive to the needs of the people. The nation needs many other problems addressed. If it’s OK with the American people, I would like to address them.

If the media want to continue talking about nonsense, that’s fine. I’m not going to join them. It doesn’t look like the citizenry plans to join them either.

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785 comments
1 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 5:56:40pm

"Spam, spam, spam" is not going to get him out of this.

2 theheat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 5:57:04pm

"Blah blah blah... oh, and by the way, the bitch is lying. All four of them."

3 albusteve  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 5:58:19pm

unruffled, he forges ahead....notice there was no denial of the charges?

4 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 5:58:56pm

re: #2 theheat

"Blah blah blah... oh, and by the way, the bitch is bitches lying. All four of them."

Ebonics - solves basic grammar issues.

5 albusteve  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:00:37pm

oh look!....a squirrel!

6 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:00:59pm

Do-you-know-who-I-am letter with an extra topping of victimization.

7 theheat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:01:39pm

re: #4 darthstar

I hope these problems follow him like fleas on a dog.

8 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:01:51pm

Tick tick tick ... Herman's 15 minutes of fame are just about up.

9 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:02:05pm

What does friendly banter have to do with the allegations of sexual assault?

10 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:02:36pm

Politico gave him 10 days to formulate a response to the initial accusations, a virtual lifetime in the 24/7 news-cycle. And his tactic was to plead ignorance and act as though it wasn't important. If he can't come up with a good answer in 10 days, how the hell does he expect to come up with one in 10 minutes, say in the middle of a national crisis?

11 theheat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:03:14pm

re: #10 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If he can't solve problems in 10 minutes the next pizza is free.

12 Alexzander  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:03:36pm

In Summary:

What's a couple sexual assaults amidst so much "friendly banter"?

13 freetoken  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:03:40pm

Blending the last thread topic with this thread's topic, here is a Cain advert (apparently targeted for Iowa) from a couple of days ago:

Yup, that's right, the ol' EPA DUST!! wingnut outrage.

Cain is playing every card in the book to be... well something, because he's surely not going to be the GOP nominee at this rate.

14 albusteve  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:04:30pm

probably wishes he had Bill's attorney on speed dial

15 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:06:03pm

Very impressive torrent of bullshit.

16 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:06:39pm

He almost said maverick.

17 Alexzander  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:06:46pm

re: #15 Charles

Very impressive torrent of bullshit.

Agreed it actually is quite impressive. It somehow still comes across as 'genuine.' I think "Herb Cain" probably believes it.

18 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:06:59pm

re: #15 Charles

Very impressive torrent of bullshit.

It's a story told by a fool, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

/

19 albusteve  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:09:22pm

it's not the economy, stupid

20 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:09:46pm

Finally, a political movement I can get behind...
We demand a vapid, condescending, meaningless, politically safe response to this petition. (Official WhiteHouse petition)

Since these petitions are ignored apart from an occasional patronizing and inane political statement amounting to nothing more than a condescending pat on the head, we the signers would enjoy having the illusion of success. Since no other outcome to this process seems possible, we demand that the White House immediately assign a junior staffer to compose a tame and vapid response to this petition, and never attempt to take any meaningful action on this or any other issue. We would also like a cookie.

21 albusteve  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:11:07pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Finally, a political movement I can get behind...
We demand a vapid, condescending, meaningless, politically safe response to this petition. (Official WhiteHouse petition)

the cookie thing is gonna go viral

22 freetoken  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:11:25pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

"Access Denied"

I guess that staffer is already at work.

23 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:13:24pm

re: #22 freetoken

"Access Denied"

I guess that staffer is already at work.

Fuck, let's try via google...
[Link: www.google.com...]

24 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:14:07pm

I'm sure Buck has a great explanation, or at least some enlightening thoughts on all of this, and I'm just as sure I can't wait to hear it!

25 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:14:38pm

He is a lying POS.Does ANYONE really want this kind of person leading our country? 4 so far, how many more to come?
*spit*

26 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:14:56pm

OT ~ Marriage proposal by flash mob:[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

27 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:15:54pm

Occupy Portland Protester Chains Arm Inside Concrete Filled Barrel


Winnar!
28 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:18:45pm

Herman Cain sure is a nasty bastard.

29 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:18:53pm
Frank says:

ARE YOU HUNG UP?

...

30 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:19:13pm

re: #15 Charles

Very impressive torrent of bullshit.

Still not as impressive as some of Palin's word salads, but it comes damn close.

31 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:19:37pm

Sorry, Herm, I'm not obsessed enough to rate that rambling diatribe anything other than 'tl;dr'.

32 FreedomMoon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:20:00pm

Oh Herman, you were once "their" black guy and now you are not. You should feel very liberated.

33 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:20:21pm

re: #24 jamesfirecat

I'm sure Buck has a great explanation, or at least some enlightening thoughts on all of this, and I'm just as sure I can't wait to hear it!

Not sure what you mean. Is there something you need explained?

34 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:22:07pm

re: #22 freetoken

"Access Denied"

I guess that staffer is already at work.

He just needs to tinyurl it since the url is https and Charles cuts the 's' off a url faster than you can say urglfrp.

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

35 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:23:45pm
and everyone knows the process only became further detached from relevance this week as the media published anonymous, ancient, vague personal allegations against me.

Crotchgrabby Creepsauce McHeadpusher seems quite upset about today's non-anonmyous, highly specific revelations.

36 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:25:24pm

I am, unfortunately, forced to nod in agreement when Mr. Cain says that 'the media-driven process by which one must seek this opportunity is fundamentally unserious'.

But the Cain Experience is proof of that problem, not a solution to it.

37 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:27:27pm

re: #35 goddamnedfrank

Crotchgrabby Creepsauce McHeadpusher seems quite upset about today's non-anonmyous, highly specific revelations.

Bill Clinton responded?

/just kidding

38 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:28:01pm

re: #34 darthstar

He just needs to tinyurl it since the url is https and Charles cuts the 's' off a url faster than you can say urglfrp.

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

urglfrp

39 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:28:39pm
40 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:28:39pm

re: #37 Buck

That's our Buck!
LOL!

41 Petero1818  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:29:03pm

re: #15 Charles

Its funny, I actually think it was a very well written email with a great deal of truth to it - in the abstract. The trouble is of course, multiple allegations of serious wrongdoing, many of which were made long before he sought political office are not just a product of media and the system. a few things bother me about this email. 1. trying to connect Obama to suggest that he is the beneficiary of this type of process was IMHO slimy as hell. Secondly, the suggestion that Politico went out searching for a story here seems to me to be presumptuous and again slimy.

42 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:35:38pm

He keeps talking about the anonymity of his accusers.

She gave her name, which was a very brave thing to do.

43 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:36:46pm

re: #42 EmmmieG

He keeps talking about the anonymity of his accusers.

She gave her name, which was a very brave thing to do.

Perhaps he's referring to Perry, Romney, or Gingrich staffers.

44 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:36:59pm
45 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:38:09pm

re: #42 EmmmieG

He keeps talking about the anonymity of his accusers.

She gave her name, which was a very brave thing to do.

It likely is something that was written in the last couple days, thrown out there without waiting on the press conference. That's how he had a press release read to go the moment the conference ended.

46 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:40:16pm

Don't know why he's complaining, he wanted to get screwed.

47 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:40:50pm

Mr. Cain, character counts in a leader. You don't want to talk about these harassments? Too bad, they have a bearing on your suitability for the job you are seeking. God forbid you actually get it.

48 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:40:55pm

re: #45 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

He doesn't adapt well in a crisis.

49 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:42:43pm

It's funny, the first 3 accusers kept getting media because the weren't "Gloria Allred clients". She's just known as a breaker, gotta LOVE that reputation!

50 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:43:01pm

Eric Boehlert tweets:

Haha. Brent Bozell's @newsbusters puts Cain "scandal" in quotes, becus having a WH candidate accused of sexual assault isn't a big deal

51 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:45:14pm

re: #47 Ojoe

Mr. Cain, character counts in a leader. You don't want to talk about these harassments? Too bad, they have a bearing on your suitability for the job you are seeking. God forbid you actually get it.

A candidate who has a history of abusing power to extort sex out of female employees isn't anything to get worked up about. I mean the GOP didn't get worked up about Clinton...er...uhm...

///

52 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:45:56pm

What a train wreck, the Republican field.

BBL

53 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:47:29pm

Power=Sex...It's the Elephant in the Room.. This isn't a matter of politics or who has a smarter viewpoint...I think inside every guy knows this is true..Men with power use it for sex..It's been that way since the beginning of time..But now in the modern age it is more subtle..Drinks at the Hotel..Nice Dinner and a tour of the office...Politics play only a sideshow.. It is really Power that matters...
Fuck aftershock!

54 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:48:51pm

Just had another quake.

55 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:50:35pm

2 aftershocks..Well what a night...Tornadoes and Aftershocks!

56 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:51:16pm

Ironically, today is the day we start voting on David Wu's replacement. If you remember (you probably don't), he left office amid allegations that he was unstable and making unwanted sexual advances at young women.

It's just the primary today. By tomorrow morning, we'll know which Democrat will take the seat, and which Republican will put up token resistance.

57 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:51:52pm

re: #55 HoosierHoops

This is getting annoying. I'm beginning to get to the point of being a connoisseur of fine quakes.

58 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:52:00pm

Once this kind of nonsense starts, the media’s rules say you have to act in a certain way. I am well aware of these rules. And I refuse to play by them

tough

this here election ain't no corporate initiative, this time you are the job applicant and we are the boss, and yer gonna havta play by our rules now

59 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:53:15pm

Anyone seen this Mike Huckabee clip where he compares to sexual harassment allegations against Cain to his experience ordering at Popeyes Chicken?

Remember folks, this asshole was your GOP runner-up 4 years ago.

60 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:53:33pm

re: #55 HoosierHoops

Be safe, please!

61 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:53:43pm

nbc poll today

What’s more, a combined 76 percent agree with the statement that the current economic structure of the country is out of balance and favors a small proportion of the rich over the rest of the country, and that America needs to reduce the power of the banks and corporations.

That number includes 62 percent of Republicans and 61 percent of Tea Party supporters who agree with the statement.

62 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:54:45pm

Toe-sucking prostitute patron Dick Morris on latest Cain accuser:
"I look forward to her spread in Playboy"

63 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:56:01pm

re: #57 ProLifeLiberal

This is getting annoying. I'm beginning to get to the point of being a connoisseur of fine quakes.

I felt a gentle movement and thought..Well is it? Then about 30 secs later I felt the aftershock...Winston is useless for an animal to prewarn you of an Earthquake...He doesn't have a clue till after the fact..
We got lucky today with all those Tornadoes going west of Norman...They were showing film of the Supercells on Fox..

64 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:57:26pm

re: #55 HoosierHoops

2 aftershocks..Well what a night...Tornadoes and Aftershocks!

Where did this storm come from? It's been crazy.

65 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:57:36pm

re: #63 HoosierHoops

I felt a gentle movement and thought..Well is it? Then about 30 secs later I felt the aftershock...Winston is useless for an animal to prewarn you of an Earthquake...He doesn't have a clue till after the fact..
We got lucky today with all those Tornadoes going west of Norman...They were showing film of the Supercells on Fox..

Has anyone told Winston he's supposed to know these things? For that matter, you have told Winston that he's a dog, right? He might just think he's your human son.

66 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 6:59:06pm

re: #63 HoosierHoops

Winston is useless for an animal to prewarn you of an Earthquake...He doesn't have a clue till after the fact..

Don't worry, all of the other animals are useless too.

67 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:00:05pm

Consider: I held various executive positions in corporate America for several decades. I had thousands of employees working for me.

you're not making me like you any better here

68 Alexzander  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:00:42pm

re: #64 prairiefire

Where did this storm come from? It's been crazy.

Either fracking of hints of the apocalypse of 2012.

69 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:03:48pm

re: #65 EmmmieG

Has anyone told Winston he's supposed to know these things? For that matter, you have told Winston that he's a dog, right? He might just think he's your human son.

He is so cute..Saturday he didn't have a clue...He woke to see the Hoopster holding onto the 73" Samsung for dear life..( Break anything else for all I care )
Then he runs and hides under the bed after it's over..
He definitely isn't a proactive warning..Throw me a bark dude..Kind of dog..

70 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:04:31pm

Media are obsessed? Well Herman, you've played right into their hands. A simple "I was younger man and it was a learning experience" would have sufficed.

How is everyone?

71 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:04:43pm

re: #68 Alexzander

Fracking can explain one.

The other is just fall weather.

72 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:05:36pm

re: #70 ggt

Media are obsessed? Well Herman, you've played right into their hands. A simple "I was younger man and it was a learning experience" would have sufficed.

How is everyone?

A younger man? 10 years ago he was in his 50s already.

73 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:08:56pm

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He is, or pretends to be, a politician. It doesn't have to be true, sensible, or reasonable. It just has to be better than the threeve storylines he's already pushed.

It's not a high bar to clear.

74 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:09:03pm

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A younger man? 10 years ago he was in his 50s already.

Whatever, he could have admitted fault and it would have been over.

75 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:09:52pm

re: #74 ggt

Whatever, he could have admitted fault and it would have been over.

What if it not true? Do you think he should he admit it anyway?

76 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:10:20pm

re: #59 bratwurst

Anyone seen this Mike Huckabee clip where he compares to sexual harassment allegations against Cain to his experience ordering at Popeyes Chicken?

[Video]Remember folks, this asshole was your GOP runner-up 4 years ago.

AND an ordained minister and the father of a daughter.

77 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:11:05pm

re: #75 Buck

What if it not true? Do you think he should he admit it anyway?

Admit the fact that sexual harassment settlements were reached, rather than (IMHO probably falsely) stating that he didn't know of any such settlements?

Yes, he should have admitted that.

78 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:12:46pm

re: #75 Buck

What if it not true? Do you think he should he admit it anyway?

he can stand on his view of it and get the crap kicked out of him, or he can make a statement like "if i have ever made anybody uncomfortable or violated their personal space in an inappropriate way i deeply regret it and hope they will accept my apologies" and take the steam out of it

his choice

79 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:13:32pm

re: #77 erik_t

Admitted the fact that sexual harassment settlements were reached, rather than (IMHO probably falsely) stating that he didn't know of any such settlements?

Yes, he should have admitted that.

The lawyer for one of the women who is made this accusation says he might not have know about that settlement.

However he says he is innocent. That the accusations are baseless. Assume for shits and giggles that he is telling the truth. How do you think he could prove it?

80 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:14:07pm

re: #71 ProLifeLiberal

Fracking can explain one.

The other is just fall weather.

Everybody was talking about Fracking effects at work today.. For one side..Since they began fracking in Oklahoma the earthquakes have doubled in numbers..That's a fact..On the other hand the Quakes aren't happening where the fracking is going on...
Maybe weakening the Earth in one section in this state is causing effects.. I think it's worth Studying.. I think most miners would attest to causations under the Earth

81 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:14:20pm

This time next year the election should be over.

82 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:14:36pm

re: #79 Buck

The lawyer for one of the women who is made this accusation says he might not have know about that settlement.

However he says he is innocent. That the accusations are baseless. Assume for shits and giggles that he is telling the truth. How do you think he could prove it?

Well, since Politico gave him nearly two weeks heads up, he should probably have checked before running his mouth.

I'm done here.

83 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:14:50pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Hallelujah!

84 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:14:53pm

re: #40 Floral Giraffe

That's our Buck!
LOL!

Gigiggity Giggigty!

85 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:14:53pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

This time next year the election should be over.

I DEMAND A RECOUNT!

86 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:15:15pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

This time next year the election should be over.

THAT is the best news I've heard all day!

87 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:15:24pm

re: #85 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bend over & count out loud...
One!

88 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:17:25pm

re: #79 Buck

The lawyer for one of the women who is made this accusation says he might not have know about that settlement.

However he says he is innocent. That the accusations are baseless. Assume for shits and giggles that he is telling the truth. How do you think he could prove it?

In 10 days, he couldn't do any research into the story and come up with a plausible answer? We're not talking a reporter ambushing him with the question, he knew the questions were coming.

89 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:17:57pm

TLDR

90 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:18:45pm

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

In 10 days, he couldn't do any research into the story and come up with a plausible answer? We're not talking a reporter ambushing him with the question, he knew the questions were coming.

Are we sure he knew? Think of Right of Return, Ubeki-beki-beki-stan, Chinese nukes, etc etc

91 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:19:16pm

re: #79 Buck

The lawyer for one of the women who is made this accusation says he might not have know about that settlement.

However he says he is innocent. That the accusations are baseless. Assume for shits and giggles that he is telling the truth. How do you think he could prove it?

Counter Suit for defamation of character take them to court, let everything everyone has to say on the issue get out under oath, see which way the jury rules...

That's the first thing to come to my mind but I'm sure someone would a better grasp of how the law in this country works could phrase it better/come up with other ideas/

92 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:19:27pm

re: #75 Buck

What if it not true? Do you think he should he admit it anyway?

If not true, why 4 seperate women, many sworn statements and his considered response being a rambling email?

93 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:19:27pm

re: #89 wozzablog

TLDR

SPQR

94 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:19:54pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Are we sure he knew? Think of Right of Return, Ubeki-beki-beki-stan, Chinese nukes, etc etc

True, it's possible that somebody in his campaign got the call and never passed the message on to him. In which case, he's got even more problems on his plate than simply an inability to remember when he was last accused of sexual harassment.

95 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:20:01pm

In the end will the GOP thru him under the Bus --for this or other reasons?

Yes

96 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:21:32pm

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

In 10 days, he couldn't do any research into the story and come up with a plausible answer? We're not talking a reporter ambushing him with the question, he knew the questions were coming.

I don't think he thought any media organization would publish something with no on the record source, and no actual detailed allegations. However, you do point out a mistake that he might have made. I don't see it as proof of guilt, but maybe a naive idea about the media.

97 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:21:39pm

re: #93 Killgore Trout

SPQR

WTF?

98 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:22:17pm

re: #95 ggt

In the end will the GOP thru him under the Bus --for this or other reasons?

Yes

Even without this, he was destined to spurned by the base eventually...all of the other anti-Romney heart throbs have met with this fate so far.

99 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:23:06pm

re: #96 Buck

I don't think he thought any media organization would publish something with no on the record source, and no actual detailed allegations. However, you do point out a mistake that he might have made. I don't see it as proof of guilt, but maybe a naive idea about the media.

Dude was a chief lobbyist - must have some idea.

100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:24:48pm

TIME for Kittehs!

101 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:24:54pm

re: #99 wozzablog

Dude was a chief lobbyist - must have some idea.

Not to mention being funded by the 50-billion-dollar Koch brothers, who surely could have afforded to give their "brother from another mother" a better crisis management team.

I guess their massive arrogance has made them cheap and dumb :)

102 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:25:08pm

re: #96 Buck

I don't think he thought any media organization would publish something with no on the record source, and no actual detailed allegations. However, you do point out a mistake that he might have made. I don't see it as proof of guilt, but maybe a naive idea about the media.

Do you live in the same America that I live in?

103 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:25:34pm

re: #101 publicityStunted

Maybe they just really weren't that into him.

104 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:25:46pm

re: #96 Buck

I don't think he thought any media organization would publish something with no on the record source, and no actual detailed allegations. However, you do point out a mistake that he might have made. I don't see it as proof of guilt, but maybe a naive idea about the media.

The man has worked as a CEO and lobbyist, and ran a 1999 Senate attempt before dropping out mid-run. If he didn't think the media would pounce on even the most controversial of scraps and print them, then he's not just naive, he's suffering from the worst case of cranial-rectal inversion I have ever witnessed.

105 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:26:47pm

re: #79 Buck

However he says he is innocent. That the accusations are baseless. Assume for shits and giggles that he is telling the truth. How do you think he could prove it?

he could start by not being such an arrogant asshole about the whole thing

106 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:26:54pm

re: #102 EmmmieG

Do you live in the same America that I live in?

He lives in Canada so I guess that's a "no".

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:28:33pm

re: #106 jamesfirecat

He lives in Canada so I guess that's a "no".

Ah. Well, in EmmmieG's America, you can pretty much count on the press to report salacious rumors. They can do this by simply reporting that a person is alleging such-and-such. As long as they are just reporting that there are allegations, they're in the clear.

Maybe in Canada the press aren't barracudas.

108 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:29:49pm
109 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:29:52pm

re: #107 EmmmieG

Ah. Well, in EmmmieG's America, you can pretty much count on the press to report salacious rumors. They can do this by simply reporting that a person is alleging such-and-such. As long as they are just reporting that there are allegations, they're in the clear.

Maybe in Canada the press aren't barracudas.

Our unelected 4th Branch of Government. . . .

110 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:30:14pm

re: #101 publicityStunted

Not to mention being funded by the 50-billion-dollar Koch brothers, who surely could have afforded to give their "brother from another mother" a better crisis management team.

I guess their massive arrogance has made them cheap and dumb :)

Cain is supposed to take a dive in the 3rd.

111 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:30:24pm

re: #96 Buck

I don't think he thought any media organization would publish something with no on the record source, and no actual detailed allegations. However, you do point out a mistake that he might have made. I don't see it as proof of guilt, but maybe a naive idea about the media.

What!?
Remember Watergate? There were no on the record sources.. The media followed the Money and rumor.. The media has advanced by light years since then.. Heck you can't even tweet pictures of yourself in underwear anymore.. Herman didn't know he was playing with the big boys.. They gave him 10 days notice..( Why I don't know ) And his arrogance will bring him down..

112 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:30:32pm

re: #92 wozzablog

If not true, why 4 seperate women, many sworn statements and rambling email?

Does anything on your list mean to you that he must be guilty? You don't know anything about three of the women who have accused him.

I would like to see if the NRA has kept any information from any investigations they might have made. If the original data is available, and even interviews with the people who complied them... it would go a long way.

And did you notice this forth woman says she was fired from the NRA.... but doesn't say why. Don't you think that is strange? When fired, do you really think your first thought is to contact the CEO of the company you were fired from and ask for a job?

I am looking any shred of verifiable proof of any of the allegations. Until then, if this works, then it could happen to anyone. Anyone can say anything.

113 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:30:32pm

re: #107 EmmmieG

Ah. Well, in EmmmieG's America, you can pretty much count on the press to report salacious rumors. They can do this by simply reporting that a person is alleging such-and-such. As long as they are just reporting that there are allegations, they're in the clear.

Maybe in Canada the press aren't barracudas.

So is there any truth aboot the rumors of these sexual harassment you've been charged with, eh?

114 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:30:55pm

re: #96 Buck

I don't think he thought any media organization would publish something with no on the record source, and no actual detailed allegations. However, you do point out a mistake that he might have made. I don't see it as proof of guilt, but maybe a naive idea about the media.

Out of interest, is that officially solidified as the Conservative talking point regarding this, ie. 'whatever the truth, Politico and the media/Democrat party are the real villains here'? I know that's the line the Cain camp is pushing, but it seems at first glance that the cult media is souring a little, and Cain is not one of the demagogues of choice, so he doesn't get to decide the appropriate talking point.

Let us know if it's going to be that, or if we're still waiting on a more concise character attack on the lady that came forward.

115 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:31:15pm

re: #96 Buck

I have a serious question for you.

Are you on the payroll for a company run by the Koch Brothers? I'm asking this because, almost like clockwork, you are quick to jump to the defense of anything that is in their interest. Be it the health care debate, the Wisconsin and Michigan labor disputes, making the claim that there are no clean alternative to oil, or jumping to the defense of politicians who are in the Koch Brothers' pockets, you seem to ALWAYS be there. For someone who claims to be a resident of Canada, I just find it really curious that I am always seeing you talk about American politics, but I don't recall ever seeing a single post regarding Canada.

116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:31:19pm

re: #95 ggt

In the end will the GOP thru him under the Bus --for this or other reasons?

Yes

Yeah, he was already on that bus-thrown trajectory the minute he signed up.

But first, a detour through making conservatives like Buck defend him for groping a blonde.

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:32:56pm

VETERINARY QUESTION:

Old Man Dog has had the runs since Friday. The Noisy Kind. We had recently switched food so, we switched back. By Sunday, no change. Rice and Egg since then. No change and now I can HEAR his stomach gurgling and stuff.

I don't want to go to the Emergency Vet and he hasn't had any accidents.

Otherwise, he seems fine.

tums? Pepto? Go to the Vet Tommorrow?

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:33:52pm

Do we know if all the women he has been accused by are of one race or not?

119 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:33:59pm

re: #115 RadicalModerate

I have a serious question for you.

Are you on the payroll for a company run by the Koch Brothers? I'm asking this because, almost like clockwork, you are quick to jump to the defense of anything that is in their interest. Be it the health care debate, the Wisconsin and Michigan labor disputes, making the claim that there are no clean alternative to oil, or jumping to the defense of politicians who are in the Koch Brothers' pockets, you seem to ALWAYS be there. For someone who claims to be a resident of Canada, I just find it really curious that I am always seeing you talk about American politics, but I don't recall ever seeing a single post regarding Canada.

You have never made a search to see if I have made any posts about Canada have you?

120 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:34:53pm

re: #112 Buck

Does anything on your list mean to you that he must be guilty? You don't know anything about three of the women who have accused him.

I would like to see if the NRA has kept any information from any investigations they might have made. If the original data is available, and even interviews with the people who complied them... it would go a long way.

And did you notice this forth woman says she was fired from the NRA... but doesn't say why. Don't you think that is strange? When fired, do you really think your first thought is to contact the CEO of the company you were fired from and ask for a job?

I am looking any shred of verifiable proof of any of the allegations. Until then, if this works, then it could happen to anyone. Anyone can say anything.

All the hush money is a false flag?. Two employees - turning it on it's head, if there was not a single shred of proof to either allegation why pay out twice?

121 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:35:26pm

re: #112 Buck

Does anything on your list mean to you that he must be guilty? You don't know anything about three of the women who have accused him.

I would like to see if the NRA has kept any information from any investigations they might have made. If the original data is available, and even interviews with the people who complied them... it would go a long way.

And did you notice this forth woman says she was fired from the NRA... but doesn't say why. Don't you think that is strange? When fired, do you really think your first thought is to contact the CEO of the company you were fired from and ask for a job?

I am looking any shred of verifiable proof of any of the allegations. Until then, if this works, then it could happen to anyone. Anyone can say anything.

Only if I were let go for reasons that had nothing to do with my performance, such as budget cutbacks. If I were let go and told I had done a poor job, I wouldn't.

122 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:36:35pm

re: #117 ggt

VETERINARY QUESTION:

Old Man Dog has had the runs since Friday. The Noisy Kind. We had recently switched food so, we switched back. By Sunday, no change. Rice and Egg since then. No change and now I can HEAR his stomach gurgling and stuff.

I don't want to go to the Emergency Vet and he hasn't had any accidents.

Otherwise, he seems fine.

tums? Pepto? Go to the Vet Tommorrow?

I wouldn't go to the doctor if I were in his shape--just keep him drinking.

123 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:37:08pm

re: #112 Buck

Does anything on your list mean to you that he must be guilty? You don't know anything about three of the women who have accused him.

I would like to see if the NRA has kept any information from any investigations they might have made. If the original data is available, and even interviews with the people who complied them... it would go a long way.

And did you notice this forth woman says she was fired from the NRA... but doesn't say why. Don't you think that is strange? When fired, do you really think your first thought is to contact the CEO of the company you were fired from and ask for a job?

I am looking any shred of verifiable proof of any of the allegations. Until then, if this works, then it could happen to anyone. Anyone can say anything.

Actually she did say why she was let go. The NRA claimed she did not meet her goal as a fundraiser, even though she raised more money for them than her predecessors. They then claimed she was let go for no reason, that it was an "at will" contract.

124 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:37:39pm

re: #120 wozzablog

All the hush money is a false flag?. Two employees - turning it on it's head, if there was not a single shred of proof to either allegation why pay out twice?

That happens. Sometimes, especially if the payouts are small, it is cheaper to pay, even if the allegations are baseless.

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:38:15pm

re: #122 Decatur Deb

I wouldn't go to the doctor if I were in his shape--just keep him drinking.

I feel so bad for him, he keeps looking at my like: "Mommy, do something"

126 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:38:23pm

re: #115 RadicalModerate

I have a serious question for you. Are you on the payroll for a company run by the Koch Brothers?

Close enough.

127 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:39:27pm

re: #126 publicityStunted

Close enough.

There you go, I am the brother from another mother of Herman Cain.

128 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:39:39pm

re: #124 Buck

That happens. Sometimes, especially if the payouts are small, it is cheaper to pay, even if the allegations are baseless.

That's something that the NRA could put to bed by just releasing the results of their investigations into the accusations made by the two women. Funny how Cain's not interested in seeking out those results, but instead railing on about the media.

129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:39:57pm

re: #125 ggt

I feel so bad for him, he keeps looking at my like: "Mommy, do something"

Aww, old puppy.

(((Old Puppy)))

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:40:05pm

re: #75 Buck

What if it not true? Do you think he should he admit it anyway?

Let me guess. Why wouldn't it be true?

131 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:40:09pm

re: #114 Renaissance_Man

Here's today's collection of talking points:
[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:40:46pm

re: #127 Buck

There you go, I am the brother from another mother of Herman Cain.

So you have the same baby daddy.

That's swell, Buck. e_e

133 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:41:03pm

re: #128 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That's something that the NRA could put to bed by just releasing the results of their investigations into the accusations made by the two women. Funny how Cain's not interested in seeking out those results, but instead railing on about the media.

Actually I think the privacy rights of the women, who do not want to come forward would have something to do with it.

134 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:41:57pm

re: #124 Buck

That happens. Sometimes, especially if the payouts are small, it is cheaper to pay, even if the allegations are baseless.

Two paid out complaints about the same guy.

Just sayin'.

Fourth complaint bears significant similarities to the first.

This is a pattern.

Accusers who as far as we know had no prior knowledge as to each others experiences of Mr Cains alledged propensity.

135 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:42:02pm

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

Let me guess. Why wouldn't it be true?

I was just asking the question.

136 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:42:12pm

re: #133 Buck

Actually I think the privacy rights of the women, who do not want to come forward would have something to do with it.

Is it impossible to release the results of the investigations without releasing personal information about the accusers?

137 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:42:13pm

re: #124 Buck

That happens. Sometimes, especially if the payouts are small, it is cheaper to pay, even if the allegations are baseless.

you'd have to postulate that two different women were so tired of having a job at the nra that they decided to fabricate similar accusations about the head of the company so that they could squeeze out a little cash and get fired

occam's razor. the above explanation requires swallowing more unreasonable things than believing that cain made both of them uncomfortable enough to risk their jobs

138 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:42:34pm

re: #119 Buck

You have never made a search to see if I have made any posts about Canada have you?

From a cursory view of your posts from the last three months in both main and user pages, I didn't see any. I haven't gone back further than that as of yet. Several posts on the Middle East (specifically Israeli policy), though.

However I do notice that you didn't answer my question - and investments don't count, unless you are a voting stockholder.

139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:42:42pm

re: #124 Buck

That happens. Sometimes, especially if the payouts are small, it is cheaper to pay, even if the allegations are baseless.

Companies don't pay out to someone who can't prove their claims, how do you figure?

140 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:42:59pm

The thing is, let's say you were a woman who had been sexually harassed or abused by Cain. Now let's say your past has been less than pure. That doesn't make the harassment okay. All women are supposed to have the right to work in a safe environment, whatever their background.

Still, it means you get to be drug face-down through town by the media. Sounds like a party.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:44:27pm

re: #115 RadicalModerate

I have a serious question for you.

Are you on the payroll for a company run by the Koch Brothers?

Not a serious question. I can understand the interest, but having been accused myself of being a Mossad agent or other employee of the government of the state of Israel online several times, I'm fairly sure that no one actually hires people for this sort of thing. At least not people you can pick out easily.

142 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:44:52pm

re: #139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sure they do, if it's less of a headache than fighting it. But four instances (that we know about) strongly stretches credulity.

143 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:44:52pm

re: #127 Buck

It wasn't funny when Cain said it, and it's even less funny when you say it.

144 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:45:19pm

re: #139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Companies don't pay out to someone who can't prove their claims, how do you figure?

Personally, I'm waiting on some statistics for this. We keep getting told that it's "common" for women to make false accusations of sexual harassment in order to suck money out of companies who feel settlements are cheaper than going to court. But if that's the case, shouldn't there be easily referenced statistics to that end?

145 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:45:45pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

Not a serious question. I can understand the interest, but having been accused myself of being a Mossad agent or other employee of the government of the state of Israel online several times, I'm fairly sure that no one actually hires people for this sort of thing. At least not people you can pick out easily.

A Mossad agent? Do you get a cool nickname? Gadgets? Fast car? Hunky guys to help you?

146 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:46:02pm

re: #140 EmmmieG

Still, it means you get to be drug dragged face-down through town by the media.

Sorry. Can't help it. That kind of thing is like a crooked picture on the wall to me.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:46:04pm

re: #124 Buck

That happens. Sometimes, especially if the payouts are small, it is cheaper to pay, even if the allegations are baseless.

Four people (who are not all in the same classroom, or car) tell the same story. One person tells a different one.

Who is more likely--not certain, but likely--to be telling the truth?

148 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:46:47pm

Jane Mayer:

When it comes to the politics of sexual scandals, there’s an iron-clad rule that Clarence Thomas’s handlers recognized implicitly, which Herman Cain may be about to pay the price for breaking: Two women is company, three’s a crowd. Four, which is the number who have now accused Cain of inappropriate sexual behavior, is a farewell chorus.
...
Of course, supporters rally emotionally to the defense of the accused. They decry the unfairness of the media. They try to undermine the credibility of the accusers in every way they can. But if the accusations are believable, the American public will not be forgiving. And nothing makes alleged sexual misconduct more believable than a pattern of behavior, formed by multiple accusations.
[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

149 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:46:57pm

re: #144 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You're conflating two situations there. One of an out-for-money woman, and one of a woman who can't prove anything (and proving anything about a one-on-one encounter is nontrivial).

150 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:47:33pm

re: #138 RadicalModerate

From a cursory view of your posts from the last three months in both main and user pages, I didn't see any. I haven't gone back further than that as of yet. Several posts on the Middle East (specifically Israeli policy), though.

However I do notice that you didn't answer my question - and investments don't count, unless you are a voting stockholder.

Are you serious? I am an open book. I have been here since 2001, long before the scary Koch Brothers got on any ones radar. If you click on my name (when it is a link) it takes you to my Google Profile.

151 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:47:55pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

Not a serious question. I can understand the interest, but having been accused myself of being a Mossad agent or other employee of the government of the state of Israel online several times, I'm fairly sure that no one actually hires people for this sort of thing. At least not people you can pick out easily.

Theres money being thrown around by right wing groups to get people to push the message online in forums. Not saying ol'Bucky is one of them, but the rumours and patterns are out there online.

[Link: www.alternet.org...]

152 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:48:43pm

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

Four people (who are not all in the same classroom, or car) tell the same story. One person tells a different one.

Who is more likely--not certain, but likely--to be telling the truth?

Funny, you only know the story of one of the women. You haven't heard the story (any details) of three out of four, yet you think they match.

153 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:48:45pm

re: #145 EmmmieG

A Mossad agent? Do you get a cool nickname? Gadgets? Fast car? Hunky guys to help you?

No, she gets to tap my Bezek line and listen to my teenager chatter with her Israeli friends for a year or two.

154 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:49:05pm

re: #149 erik_t

You're conflating two situations there. One of an out-for-money woman, and one of a woman who can't prove anything (and proving anything about a one-on-one encounter is nontrivial).

True enough, which is why the NRA investigating two accusers, then settling anyway seems rather unbelievable. If they investigated and found nothing, then that does nothing to help Cain's claims of innocence. If they found proof and settled, then that's information that is being withheld from us. And if they found out both women were liars and still settled, then they're idiots.

155 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:49:10pm

Old Man Dog just lost his dinner. I'm making some rice.

:(

156 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:49:15pm

re: #118 ggt

Do we know if all the women he has been accused by are of one race or not?

I thought I saw a report that the first accuser (the one who got the years salary financial settlement) was an African-American woman. So... maybe not (as #4 is most definitely Caucasian).

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:49:44pm

re: #135 Buck

I was just asking the question.

Let me ask you one. Assuming that it could be a very large, very complex set of lies, in which at least four women, who did different things about it, are all telling the same lie about the same man...let me turn it around:

Do you think there is a significant possibility, or reason to think, that Herman Cain is guilty of disgusting and illegal behavior toward serial women, as has been alleged?

158 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:49:53pm

re: #145 EmmmieG

A Mossad agent? Do you get a cool nickname? Gadgets? Fast car? Hunky guys to help you?

I have not, nor have I ever been, a member of the Inquisition.

159 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:50:26pm

re: #152 Buck

Funny, you only know the story of one of the women. You haven't heard the story (any details) of three out of four, yet you think they match.

You missed the thread downstairs where one of the lawyers came out and said this afternoons accusations are similar to his clients sealed statements?.

160 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:50:47pm

re: #152 Buck

Funny, you only know the story of one of the women. You haven't heard the story (any details) of three out of four, yet you think they match.

bennet said that the statement made today matched that of his clients

161 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:51:04pm

re: #158 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I have not, nor have I ever been, a member of the Inquisition.

Never expected you to be.

162 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:51:14pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

Not a serious question. I can understand the interest, but having been accused myself of being a Mossad agent or other employee of the government of the state of Israel online several times, I'm fairly sure that no one actually hires people for this sort of thing. At least not people you can pick out easily.

The Koch Brothers do.

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:51:55pm

I have no problem believing that Cain said things he thought were fine and were not.

I think it is strange that after the pay-outs, he didn't learn a new way to talk.

165 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:52:22pm

re: #156 RadicalModerate

I thought I saw a report that the first accuser (the one who got the years salary financial settlement) was an African-American woman. So... maybe not (as #4 is most definitely Caucasian).

I didn't see that. Got a link?

166 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:52:50pm

re: #160 engineer dog

bennet said that the statement made today matched that of his clients

Not exactly what he said. And anyway that is not really saying all four stories match is it. The lawyer just said it was similar. We have no clue what matched up, or if anything more than he think both were sexual harassment.

167 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:53:21pm

re: #164 ggt

I think it is strange that after the pay-outs, he didn't learn a new way to talk.

Why should he? Those meddlesome. gold-digging whores who couldn't take a compliment got paid and left.

///

168 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:53:36pm

re: #162 RadicalModerate

The Koch Brothers do.

Fake eviction notices in Detroit

In June 2011, Americans for Prosperity placed a handful of fake eviction notices on people's doors in the Delray neighborhood of Detroit. The group's state director said that the intent was to startle residents into lobbying against the building of the Detroit River International Crossing bridge.[35]
[edit]

Mislabelled ballots in Wisconsin

According to Politico, in August 2011 Americans for Prosperity sent ballots to Democratic voters with instructions to return the ballot before August 11, while the election takes place on August 9.[36] In addition, the PO Box that was listed on the "Ballot Application" is the address of an anti-abortion group, Wisconsin Family Action, as opposed to an official state address.[37]
[edit]

WTF?

169 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:54:13pm

In other thoughts, having endured what private industry thinks (maybe rightfully) is an appropriate level of sexual-harassment training for the entire organization, I cannot fathom how brutally pedantic and insufferable the refresher course would be for someone who had cost the organization five or six figures worth of settlement cash.

It's not an experience I would expect to soon forget, even if the particular lessons faded with time.

170 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:54:19pm

re: #166 Buck

Not exactly what he said. And anyway that is not really saying all four stories match is it. The lawyer just said it was similar. We have no clue what matched up, or if anything more than he think both were sexual harassment.

If the story told today holds up, it's not sexual harassment. It's sexual assault.

171 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:54:38pm

re: #166 Buck

Not exactly what he said. And anyway that is not really saying all four stories match is it. The lawyer just said it was similar. We have no clue what matched up, or if anything more than he think both were sexual harassment.

Latest charge could not be sexual harrasment, she wasn't employed by the company - this is sexual assault.

172 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:55:12pm

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

are all telling the same lie about the same man

That is where we diverge on the facts. You are hearing a chorus. So far I am hearing a solo act.

173 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:55:46pm

re: #167 Lidane

///

Because if he truly values his reputation and his wife, he'd learn to stay on the right side of the law.

I know he thinks he is bulletproof--maybe there was alcohol involved.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:56:10pm

re: #144 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, I'm waiting on some statistics for this. We keep getting told that it's "common" for women to make false accusations of sexual harassment in order to suck money out of companies who feel settlements are cheaper than going to court. But if that's the case, shouldn't there be easily referenced statistics to that end?

As the Dothraki say, "It is known."

In other words, it's a belief that suits the prejudices of certain people.

If there's some sort of data that supports it, I'd like to see it.

175 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:56:19pm

re: #172 Buck

That is where we diverge on the facts. You are hearing a chorus. So far I am hearing a solo act.

lol

176 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:56:21pm

re: #170 Lidane

If the story told today holds up, it's not sexual harassment. It's sexual assault.

Good point. So did the lawyer ever say the woman he represents was alleging sexual assault? Do you think he would know the difference?

177 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:56:23pm

re: #172 Buck

That is where we diverge on the facts. You are hearing a chorus. So far I am hearing a solo act.

Well that doesn't surprise me Buck, you've always been a master of hearing exactly what you wanted to hear.

Like the time you said you honestly believed that Scott Walker's law didn't take away people's right to collectively bargain on anything other than wages....

178 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:56:33pm

re: #172 Buck

That is where we diverge on the facts. You are hearing a chorus. So far I am hearing a solo act.

So, these four women telling a similar story are actually one woman mastermind pulling the strings trying to destroy a Great American?. (tm)

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:56:57pm

re: #145 EmmmieG

A Mossad agent? Do you get a cool nickname? Gadgets? Fast car? Hunky guys to help you?

Sadly, I do not even get to look like Cote de Pablo.

180 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:57:14pm

re: #166 Buck

Not exactly what he said. And anyway that is not really saying all four stories match is it. The lawyer just said it was similar. We have no clue what matched up, or if anything more than he think both were sexual harassment.

'similar' is not good enough for you?

181 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:57:17pm

There is a pattern emerging that indicates the guy has a problem --

182 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:57:43pm

re: #173 ggt

I know he thinks he is bulletproof--maybe there was alcohol involved.

What he doesn't get is that even if there was alcohol, it's not an excuse. If he did what was alleged today, that's sexual assault, full stop.

Watching the right try to minimize and excuse this scandal is very telling about their attitudes about women.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:57:57pm

re: #146 publicityStunted

Sorry. Can't help it. That kind of thing is like a crooked picture on the wall to me.

"Did you go with him willingly?"

"He drugged me."

"Dragged, dear lady, dragged. Let us not butcher the language."

184 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:57:59pm

re: #180 engineer dog

'similar' is not good enough for you?

NEIN, ZEY MUST ALL BE EGGZACTLY THE SAME!

185 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:58:09pm

re: #181 ggt

There is a pattern emerging that indicates the guy has a problem --

The problem being that reporters fail to follow his instructions to ignore items he doesn't consider relevant.

186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:58:17pm

re: #182 Lidane

What he doesn't get is that even if there was alcohol, it's not an excuse. If he did what was alleged today, that's sexual assault, full stop.

Watching the right try to minimize and excuse this scandal is very telling about their attitudes about women.

their own women, lol

187 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:58:42pm

re: #178 wozzablog

So, these four women telling a similar story are actually one woman mastermind pulling the strings trying to destroy a Great American?. (tm)

NO, but we have only heard the story from one. The rest have not made any specific accusations. You have not heard three out of four of the stories.

188 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:58:51pm

re: #182 Lidane

What he doesn't get is that even if there was alcohol, it's not an excuse. If he did what was alleged today, that's sexual assault, full stop.

Watching the right try to minimize and excuse this scandal is very telling about their attitudes about women.

Exactly. He didn't change his behavior --indicative of a diagnosis of what I don't know, other than ineligibility for the Oval Office.

189 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:59:08pm

re: #181 ggt

There is a pattern emerging that indicates the guy has a problem --

What? There's no pattern! There's only one woman who's come forward! And we're in the process of destroying her...er, I mean investigating her background thoroughly! We will not rest until the truth is known...(and buried at the Earth's core).

190 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:59:20pm

re: #168 ggt

WTF?

The net is filled with professional advocates:

For several years, the People's Republic of China has employed paid "astroturfing bloggers", known as "red vests", "red vanguard", or the "50 Cent Party", the last being a reference to the 5 mao they are paid for each supportive post.[15][16] (Cf. Amazon Mechanical Turk.)
[edit]

--Wiki "Astroturf"

191 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:59:26pm

re: #180 engineer dog

'similar' is not good enough for you?

Similar is not the same as a match.

192 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:59:26pm

re: #176 Buck

Good point. So did the lawyer ever say the woman he represents was alleging sexual assault? Do you think he would know the difference?

Don't be an idiot. I'm pretty sure an attorney knows the difference between harassment and assault. Hell, I know the difference and I've only taken a couple of Business Law classes.

What this lawyer said is that the story told today corroborates what his client alleged in the past. Make of that what you will.

193 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:59:27pm

re: #155 ggt

Old Man Dog just lost his dinner. I'm making some rice.

:(

Boiled skinless chicken breast is a sick dog's favorite. Any other symptoms, has he started itching recently, gums pale, lethargic, etc?

194 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 7:59:46pm
Ms. Allred read from what she said was an affidavit written by Ms. Bialek’s boyfriend at the time.

“When Ms. Bialek returned from the trip from Washington, she told me that her room had been upgraded by Mr. Cain,” the boyfriend said, according to Ms. Allred. “She also told me that he had engaged in sexually inappropriate conduct toward her while they were sitting in a car. She didn’t volunteer the details and I did not ask. Ms Bialek and I stopped dating some 15 years ago.”
[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

195 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:00:04pm

You all are being so unfair! We've only heard from one or two women, but we've heard from five or six Mr. Cains! I'll side with numbers here, folks.

196 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:00:24pm

re: #188 ggt

Exactly. He didn't change his behavior --indicative of a diagnosis of what I don't know, other than ineligibility for the Oval Office.

Yeah but Mr. Ubekibeckistanstan/what's-a-right-of-return was already ineligible.

197 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:00:56pm

Here comes tonight's Daily Show, I bet Jon is gonna have some fun with Cain...

198 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:00:59pm

re: #191 Buck

Similar is not the same as a match.

What's the difference? If the stories are different, we get told that the differences are enough to call into question the women's recollection of events. If they're the same, we get told they all rehearsed the same script.

199 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:01:27pm

Mitt Romney "the great white Nope" and Jon hits one out of the park right out of the gate!

200 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:02:21pm

re: #198 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What's the difference?

That's just it -- Buck doesn't care about the difference. He's just interested in defending Herman Cain.

201 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:02:55pm

How in the world does it matter if the stories "match"? Like a lecherous scumbag couldn't come onto 4 women 4 different ways.

202 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:04:05pm

re: #193 goddamnedfrank

Boiled skinless chicken breast is a sick dog's favorite. Any other symptoms, has he started itching recently, gums pale, lethargic, etc?

No, all is normal. The big concern is that 3 of 10 of the his litter have already died from Cancer. I'm going to the vet tomorrow. One recently of stomach cancer.

203 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:04:14pm

re: #191 Buck

Similar is not the same as a match.

Good point, maybe he did it in reverse and pushed the client's crotch while grabbing for her head.

204 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:04:23pm

re: #201 bratwurst

You beat me to the punch.
Extra upding for you.

205 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:04:43pm

re: #191 Buck

Similar is not the same as a match.

Oh please. If the four stories were identical, you'd be sitting here whining about how they were all scripted because they were too much alike.

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:04:45pm

re: #151 wozzablog

Theres money being thrown around by right wing groups to get people to push the message online in forums. Not saying ol'Bucky is one of them, but the rumours and patterns are out there online.

[Link: www.alternet.org...]

Ehhh...there are a lot of rumors out there. And regardless of whether the Koch brothers are paying for folks to do this or not, it's offensive to assume that someone's ideas aren't his own, just because you don't share them.

I fully believe that Buck is capable of being just this wrongheaded on his own power.

207 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:05:08pm

re: #198 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What's the difference? If the stories are different, we get told that the differences are enough to call into question the women's recollection of events. If they're the same, we get told they all rehearsed the same script.

People are saying that proof of his guilt is that all four stories match. My point is that we have not heard three out of four of the stories. The lawyer for one of the women never said at any time that Cain is being accused of sexual assault. If his clients story "matched" then he was characterizing a sexual assault as mere sexual harassment.

208 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:05:24pm

re: #117 ggt

I would go the vet. Has he had a Parvo vaccine?

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:05:31pm

re: #152 Buck

Funny, you only know the story of one of the women. You haven't heard the story (any details) of three out of four, yet you think they match.

No, I said they tell the same story. You added 'details'.

210 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:06:05pm

re: #208 prairiefire

I would go the vet. Has he had a Parvo vaccine?

Fully vaccinated. yeah, going tomorrow.

The vomiting is a new symptom today.

211 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:06:31pm

So we need all 4 stories before we can begin to pass judgement, the 1 story's contents are enough to step back and think? Seriously, what is Cain's defense to her accusations? Just "She's lying"? Yeah, as if we haven't heard that one a bazillion times.

Come on, what is Cain's defense to her accusations? Surely he has his own recollection of those events. Perhaps she "overreacted" because he touched her chin and compared her height to his wife's?

212 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:06:34pm

Cain flat-out lied about not being aware of the settlements.

213 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:07:42pm

OK, I have to go. Break time.

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:07:59pm

re: #160 engineer dog

bennet said that the statement made today matched that of his clients

Do we have proof? Have we seen these statements with our own eyes?

//

215 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:08:02pm

re: #191 Buck

Similar is not the same as a match.

i get a picture here of a really psychotic sexual aggressor who approaches every woman in precisely the same fashion. that would make quite the creepy movie...

buck, the lawyer for the two NRA women under the non-disclosure agreement said that bialek's story resembled that of his clients

216 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:08:13pm

re: #212 jaunte

Cain flat-out lied about not being aware of the settlements.

He can't seem to tell the truth about much of anything. No wonder the white cons wave him around as their handpicked model the rest of us must follow.

217 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:08:32pm

re: #207 Buck

People are saying that proof of his guilt is that all four stories match. My point is that we have not heard three out of four of the stories. The lawyer for one of the women never said at any time that Cain is being accused of sexual assault. If his clients story "matched" then he was characterizing a sexual assault as mere sexual harassment.

The lawyer, AFAIK, has only stated that elements match, which makes more sense. Sexual predators have a tendency to reuse tactics that they've found are successful. An exact match is not required to say that the stories are similar enough to establish a pattern.

218 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:08:44pm

Cain told his campaign manager in 2003 that there was a settlement.

219 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:08:52pm

re: #212 jaunte

Cain flat-out lied about not being aware of the settlements.

And he's still a leading candidate in the GOP.

When his poll numbers go up after this story today, I won't be surprised.

220 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:09:01pm

re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist

Ehhh...there are a lot of rumors out there. And regardless of whether the Koch brothers are paying for folks to do this or not, it's offensive to assume that someone's ideas aren't his own, just because you don't share them.

I fully believe that Buck is capable of being just this wrongheaded on his own power.

Didn't LGF have a tangential relationship with a blogger who turned out to be running some kind of boiler room? Almost think it was Erickson, but he's been mainstreamed by CNN.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:10:16pm

re: #172 Buck

That is where we diverge on the facts. You are hearing a chorus. So far I am hearing a solo act.

Four women have alleged that they were sexually harassed by Herman Cain.

You are desperately trying to break up that fact, so it doesn't look nearly as damning.

222 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:10:29pm

re: #215 engineer dog

i get a picture here of a really psychotic sexual aggressor who approaches every woman in precisely the same fashion. that would make quite the creepy movie...

Really? He just looks like a typical conservative male with a little power, impressed with himself on the outside, but with something to prove to everyone looking at him.

223 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:11:26pm

Hey Buck! What do you think of Romney?

Ha

224 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:11:30pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

Buck ran from the room, having thrown out, what little he had to offer.
It's just his style.

225 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:11:57pm
Ms. Allred read from what she said was an affidavit written by Ms. Bialek’s boyfriend at the time.

“When Ms. Bialek returned from the trip from Washington, she told me that her room had been upgraded by Mr. Cain,” the boyfriend said, according to Ms. Allred. “She also told me that he had engaged in sexually inappropriate conduct toward her while they were sitting in a car. She didn’t volunteer the details and I did not ask. Ms Bialek and I stopped dating some 15 years ago.”
[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

So either she set Cain up in a really, really long con, or the ex-boyfriend for some reason is willing to lie for his girlfriend of 15 years ago, or... it happened.

226 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:12:21pm

re: #10 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Politico gave him 10 days to formulate a response to the initial accusations, a virtual lifetime in the 24/7 news-cycle. And his tactic was to plead ignorance and act as though it wasn't important. If he can't come up with a good answer in 10 days, how the hell does he expect to come up with one in 10 minutes, say in the middle of a national crisis?

Indeed. When I heard about these latest allegations I knew Cain was toast. As long as no one was going on camera to graphically recount their allegation, he had a chance. But now he's got a woman openly accusing him and he doesn't have a good answer to her allegation.

Bye, bye Herman Cain.

227 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:12:31pm

re: #215 engineer dog

buck, the lawyer for the two NRA women under the non-disclosure agreement said that bialek's story resembled that of his clients

Right, but he didn't say that they were exactly letter for letter identical. This is important is some way that you're obviously just too liberal to comprehend.

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:12:43pm

re: #191 Buck

Similar is not the same as a match.

Buck, we're not talking about DNA here. This is about sexual harassment/assault, at different times. What would constitute a 'match' in your hard head?

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:14:27pm

re: #207 Buck

People are saying that proof of his guilt is that all four stories match.

All four stories match. All four women say they were harassed by Cain.

Sorry, Charlie.

231 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:15:04pm

re: #222 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Really? He just looks like a typical conservative male with a little power, impressed with himself on the outside, but with something to prove to everyone looking at him.

i wasn't very clear about what i meant there

i meant that buck's insistence on the difference between similar and the same caused me to imagine a fictional bizarro sexual predator who would make precisely the same approach every time

i think i gots a killer movie script here oh yeah

232 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:16:35pm

Meanwhile, in Syria...

NexusIndivulsus Focal Point
Homs may break the back of the regime. “Homs is a turning point for now. It’s a successful model of self-defense"- goo.gl/IEMxW

233 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:16:44pm

re: #231 engineer dog

i wasn't very clear about what i meant there

i meant that buck's insistence on the difference between similar and the same caused me to imagine a fictional bizarro sexual predator who would make precisely the same approach every time

i think i gots a killer movie script here oh yeah

Well, serial killers do ritual behavior. Some serial rapists similar.

234 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:17:17pm

re: #231 engineer dog

i wasn't very clear about what i meant there

i meant that buck's insistence on the difference between similar and the same caused me to imagine a fictional bizarro sexual predator who would make precisely the same approach every time

i think i gots a killer movie script here oh yeah

Ah, I misunderstood. Sorry.

235 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:18:09pm

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

All four stories match. All four women say they were harassed by Cain.

Sorry, Charlie.

It's the same common thread that matters, namely that the harasser was one Herman Cain. Short of somehow finding concrete proof that all four women planned together to sink the man's presidential chances, including a Tea Party Republican, then waving them off as all "liars" is nothing but blind partisanship.

236 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:18:18pm

re: #224 Floral Giraffe

Buck ran from the room, having thrown out, what little he had to offer.
It's just his style.

While I don't doubt that he has at least a few sincere convictions, what he did in this thread was weak trolling. He didn't even bother to update his silly stance of a few days ago based on today's additional allegations. My main disappointment is that he hasn't managed to work in his classic catchphrase: "You don't know me, you only think you do".

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:18:24pm

I know I may be too hard on the hired-gun theory, but I've had SO many people get three rounds into the discussion, and then it's "Oooh, another Israeli government drone. Do you think anyone is fooled? How much do they pay you?"

Also, would you pay Buck to do this? Seriously?

238 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:18:42pm

re: #233 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, serial killers do ritual behavior. Some serial rapists similar.

this is true

and i shouldn't really joke about such an awful thing perhaps

239 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:18:49pm

re: #207 Buck

People are saying that proof of his guilt is that all four stories match. My point is that we have not heard three out of four of the stories. The lawyer for one of the women never said at any time that Cain is being accused of sexual assault. If his clients story "matched" then he was characterizing a sexual assault as mere sexual harassment.

Either way he's dead politically behind this. He'll have exactly zero appeal to women, even those who are wingnuts. Women, of any political stripe, tend not to vote for a man who mistreats women as Cain is alleged* to have done.

*: Alleged is used because nothing has been proven or adjudicated either way. I find these latest allegations credible, but at the moment they remain allegations.

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:19:10pm

re: #238 engineer dog

this is true

and i shouldn't really joke about such a serious thing perhaps

Sometimes you've got to joke, or you'll weep.

241 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:19:16pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

Not much.

242 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:20:00pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Either way he's dead politically behind this. He'll have exactly zero appeal to women, even those who are wingnuts. Women, of any political stripe, tend not to vote for a man who mistreats women as Cain is alleged* to have done..

I'm waiting until the poll numbers start coming out after this story before I declare him dead. If Cain's numbers go up after this, it will be a pathetic statement about the GOP.

243 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:20:07pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. When I heard about these latest allegations I knew Cain was toast. As long as no one was going on camera to graphically recount their allegation, he had a chance. But now he's got a woman openly accusing him and he doesn't have a good answer to her allegation.

Bye, bye Herman Cain.

Lol had a chance for what?

244 Jimmi the Grey  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:20:22pm

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

"Did you go with him willingly?"

"He drugged me."

"Dragged, dear lady, dragged. Let us not butcher the language."

Upding for quoting from one of my favorite books.

245 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:20:50pm

re: #233 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, serial killers do ritual behavior. Some serial rapists similar.

"It puts the lotion on its skin unless it wants the hose again."

246 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:21:26pm

re: #115 RadicalModerate

SO you now prove you aren't a super secret Koch brother plant.

247 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:21:48pm

re: #242 Lidane

I'm waiting until the poll numbers start coming out after this story before I declare him dead. If Cain's numbers go up after this, it will be a pathetic statement about the GOP.

If supporters do abandon him, the more interesting part will be seeing where they flock to. Newt's been pushed around as the likely safe harbor, but that makes little sense in light of his being a serial philanderer.

248 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:21:57pm

re: #242 Lidane

I'm waiting until the poll numbers start coming out after this story before I declare him dead. If Cain's numbers go up after this, it will be a pathetic statement about the GOP.

Pathetic, but not surprising.

249 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:21:58pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. When I heard about these latest allegations I knew Cain was toast. As long as no one was going on camera to graphically recount their allegation, he had a chance. But now he's got a woman openly accusing him and he doesn't have a good answer to her allegation.

Bye, bye Herman Cain.

The only thing that could save him now was if the Republican Party had become so corrupt/woman hating it no longer cared about putting forward politicians who had committed these kind of acts...

250 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:22:00pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

I know I may be too hard on the hired-gun theory, but I've had SO many people get three rounds into the discussion, and then it's "Oooh, another Israeli government drone. Do you think anyone is fooled? How much do they pay you?"

Also, would you pay Buck to do this? Seriously?

And with direct deposit, you can't even wave the stub of your Zionist Check in front of the anymore!

/I'd been wanting to use the "Zionist Check Gag" again for a long time.

251 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:22:08pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

I know I may be too hard on the hired-gun theory, but I've had SO many people get three rounds into the discussion, and then it's "Oooh, another Israeli government drone. Do you think anyone is fooled? How much do they pay you?"

Also, would you pay Buck to do this? Seriously?

He does seem to have the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:22:33pm

re: #244 Jimmi the Grey

Upding for quoting from one of my favorite books.

Probably misquoting, I haven't read it in years. But I got the basic idea across.

253 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:22:38pm

The Freepers are being their usual, rational selves about this story.

Oy.

254 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:24:14pm

re: #207 Buck

People are saying that proof of his guilt is that all four stories match. My point is that we have not heard three out of four of the stories. The lawyer for one of the women never said at any time that Cain is being accused of sexual assault. If his clients story "matched" then he was characterizing a sexual assault as mere sexual harassment.

Yeah, mere sexual harassment. Omg

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:24:21pm

re: #253 Lidane

The Freepers are being their usual, rational selves about this story.

Oy.

OMG. They now have something called "Freep Eye For the Liberal Lie".

256 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:24:50pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Either way he's dead politically behind this. He'll have exactly zero appeal to women, even those who are wingnuts.

Conservative males, otoh...

Women, of any political stripe, tend not to vote for a man who mistreats women as Cain is alleged* to have done.

You don't say.

257 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:25:06pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

I know I may be too hard on the hired-gun theory, but I've had SO many people get three rounds into the discussion, and then it's "Oooh, another Israeli government drone. Do you think anyone is fooled? How much do they pay you?"

Also, would you pay Buck to do this? Seriously?

I suspect RadicalModerate.... accusing me is a great way to deflect from....him... her?

258 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:25:21pm

re: #247 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If supporters do abandon him, the more interesting part will be seeing where they flock to. Newt's been pushed around as the likely safe harbor, but that makes little sense in light of his being a serial consensual philanderer.

Man, the day that any part of that statement is a *positive*over another candidate is the day John Edwards gets a career back.

259 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:25:33pm

re: #254 Stanley Sea

Yeah, mere sexual harassment. Omg

Mere sexual harassment? Really?

Wow. Just...wow.

260 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:25:52pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Either way he's dead politically behind this. He'll have exactly zero appeal to women, even those who are wingnuts. Women, of any political stripe, tend not to vote for a man who mistreats women as Cain is alleged* to have done.

How is it that you grasp this concept in the individual case of Cain, but fail to see it with regards to the GOP's support for laws mandating forced invasive sonograms before abortion? There's a weird dichotomy at play here.

261 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:26:32pm

re: #249 jamesfirecat

The only thing that could save him now was if the Republican Party had become so corrupt/woman hating it no longer cared about putting forward politicians who had committed these kind of acts...

Unlikely. Too much of the GOP primary voting population is female for Cain to survive this. He's going to stink to high Heaven in the eyes of pretty much any woman after this, nor will the more strategic GOP voters pull the lever for him now that he's damaged goods.

262 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:28:05pm

re: #258 wozzablog

Man, the day thats a *positive*is the day John Edwards gets a career back.

Eh, Newt's got no love children (that we know of), so it's not quite in Edwards' league. But divorcing two sick wives after screwing around behind their backs? Yeah, that certainly gives Silky Pony a run for his money.

263 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:28:36pm

re: #246 Buck

SO you now prove you aren't a super secret Koch brother plant.

As many posts as I've made critical of them? If I am, I must be doing a really horrible job of it.

264 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:28:55pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

Buck is NOT worth paying. He's a very weak troll.

265 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:29:04pm

RIP, Joe Frazier.
@AP BREAKING: Joe Frazier, the former heavyweight champion who fought Muhammad Ali three times, has died.

266 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:29:04pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #257 Buck

I suspect RadicalModerate... accusing me is a great way to deflect from...him... her?

If someone is paying him, I'd suspect they want a refund.

267 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:29:04pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

Unlikely. Too much of the GOP primary voting population is female for Cain to survive this. He's going to stink to high Heaven in the eyes of pretty much any woman after this, nor will the more strategic GOP voters pull the lever for him now that he's damaged goods.

Can only hope.

But the tea-party loses another star it promoted who was not prime-time.

These people make bad pick after bad pick after bad pick.

If Cain's support does not move en-bloc back to Perry and instead splits - Romney has the nomination.

268 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:29:38pm

re: #263 RadicalModerate

As many posts as I've made critical of them? If I am, I must be doing a really horrible job of it.

That's how you throw us off the scent.

//

269 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:29:51pm

re: #260 goddamnedfrank

How is it that you grasp this concept in the individual case of Cain, but fail to see it with regards to the GOP's support for laws mandating forced invasive sonograms before abortion? There's a weird dichotomy at play here.

Because while there are some women who will support such sonograms as a way to reduce abortion, there are virtually no women who will vote for a man who treats women as Cain is alleged to have done (nor will this particular man (me) support a man who does such things).

270 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:29:58pm

re: #260 goddamnedfrank

How is it that you grasp this concept in the individual case of Cain, but fail to see it with regards to the GOP's support for laws mandating forced invasive sonograms before abortion? There's a weird dichotomy at play here.

I wouldn't look for any rational thought from rightwing males regarding women's health.

271 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:30:57pm

re: #267 wozzablog

Can only hope.

But the tea-party loses another star it promoted who was not prime-time.

These people make bad pick after bad pick after bad pick.

If Cain's support does not move en-bloc back to Perry and instead splits - Romeny has the nomination.

Quite Concur.

"Not Romney" is running out of options.

272 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:31:28pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

Unlikely. Too much of the GOP primary voting population is female for Cain to survive this. He's going to stink to high Heaven in the eyes of pretty much any woman after this, nor will the more strategic GOP voters pull the lever for him now that he's damaged goods.

Any GOP man, otoh...

They weren't going to pull the lever for him, anyway.

273 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:31:34pm

re: #263 RadicalModerate

As many posts as I've made critical of them? If I am, I must be doing a really horrible job of it.

ya, that is what you would do... all the while gathering data. gathering gathering...

CONFESS!!!

274 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:32:11pm

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

Because while there are some women who will support such sonograms as a way to reduce abortion, there are virtually no women who will vote for a man who treats women as Cain is alleged to have done (nor will this particular man (me) support a man who does such things).

You are giving a lot of credit to women here. One is running for POTUS because her husband told her too.

There are women who will vote for whoever their "man" says to.

275 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:32:35pm

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

Because while there are some women who will support such sonograms as a way to reduce abortion, there are virtually no women who will vote for a man who treats women as Cain is alleged to have done (nor will this particular man (me) support a man who does such things).

Please, you'll vote for whoever is on the ticket, including n*****head ranch Perry.

276 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:32:42pm

re: #267 wozzablog

Can only hope.

But the tea-party loses another star it promoted who was not prime-time.

These people make bad pick after bad pick after bad pick.

If Cain's support does not move en-bloc back to Perry and instead splits - Romeny has the nomination.

I seriously think Newt is in line for at least a modest boomlet. He is practically doubling up Perry in some of the latest polls. He is also making nice with Cain and his supporters.

277 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:32:45pm

re: #267 wozzablog

If Cain's support does not move en-bloc back to Perry and instead splits - Romeny has the nomination.

I'm not sure Cain is all that damaged by this to be honest. We'll see.

278 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:33:01pm

re: #271 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

"Not Romney" is running out of options.

The Rational Republicans have Romney or Huntsman, or Buddy Romer. Who's collective support is 24% with Romney garnering 23.9%.

The tea-party does not have a candidate that is both RaptureReady and General Election ready.

279 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:33:36pm

re: #274 ggt

You are giving a lot of credit to women here. One is running for POTUS because her husband told her too.

There are women who will vote for whoever their "man" says to.

Evidnently, Dark Falcon knows women even better than we know ourselves.

280 jaunte  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:33:41pm

re: #278 wozzablog

It's a big pivot.

281 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:33:53pm

re: #265 jaunte

RIP, Joe Frazier.
@AP BREAKING: Joe Frazier, the former heavyweight champion who fought Muhammad Ali three times, has died.

Rest in peace, Joe. Your fight is over.

282 Buck  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:34:06pm

re: #263 RadicalModerate

As many posts as I've made critical of them? If I am, I must be doing a really horrible job of it.

(Last one I swear.)

never heard of a false flag? Someone get a rope, a towel and a bucket of water

283 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:34:38pm

re: #279 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Evidnently, Dark Falcon knows women even better than we know ourselves.

No, he has probably been surrounded by sane women his whole life and doesn't understand that Whacko knows no gender.

284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:35:00pm

re: #282 Buck

(Last one I swear.)

never heard of a false flag? Someone get a rope, a towel and a bucket of water

e_e

Drudge/Alex Jones talk.

285 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:35:34pm

re: #283 ggt

No, he has probably been surrounded by sane women his whole life and doesn't understand that Whacko knows no gender.

From the way he talks, doubtful.

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:35:50pm

re: #284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

e_e

Drudge/Alex Jones talk.

False flag operation? More common than that.

287 Petero1818  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:35:58pm

To be totally frank I find this entire discussion idiotic. We are debating whether this conduct should disqualify him, yet it was only 2 months ago the guy said he would not hire Muslims in his administration, and later said he might but only if they specifically passed some special loyalty test. Maybe it is just me but whether a guy ten years ago acted inappropriately is less important than the fact that he thinks he is justified in violating the civil rights of a few million Americans, and is comfortable saying so.

288 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:37:02pm
289 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:37:19pm

re: #287 Petero1818

To be totally frank I find this entire discussion idiotic. We are debating whether this conduct should disqualify him, yet it was only 2 months ago the guy said he would not hire Muslims in his administration, and later said he might but only if they specifically passed some special loyalty test. Maybe it is just me but whether a guy ten years ago acted inappropriately is less important than the fact that he thinks he is justified in violating the civil rights of a few million Americans, and is comfortable saying so.

I never considered him suitable for the presidency.

I do, however, think this is a rather worthy scandal to linger over.

290 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:37:54pm

re: #287 Petero1818

To be totally frank I find this entire discussion idiotic. We are debating whether this conduct should disqualify him, yet it was only 2 months ago the guy said he would not hire Muslims in his administration, and later said he might but only if they specifically passed some special loyalty test. Maybe it is just me but whether a guy ten years ago acted inappropriately is less important than the fact that he thinks he is justified in violating the civil rights of a few million Americans, and is comfortable saying so.

Granted.
I did bring that up and said it disqualified him - but unfortunately there were still a very large number of the GOP base who found those comments to be absolute positives.

291 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:38:31pm

re: #287 Petero1818

To be totally frank I find this entire discussion idiotic. We are debating whether this conduct should disqualify him, yet it was only 2 months ago the guy said he would not hire Muslims in his administration, and later said he might but only if they specifically passed some special loyalty test. Maybe it is just me but whether a guy ten years ago acted inappropriately is less important than the fact that he thinks he is justified in violating the civil rights of a few million Americans, and is comfortable saying so.

This discussion is because such facts have done nothing to kill Cain's campaign. If anything, they've boosted it, as many of the wingnuts in the GOP's base fear Muslims even more than they fear strong, independent women. And even then, it's only one of a number of things he has said or done since beginning his campaign that should totally disqualify him from the presidency, but has done little to diminish his poll numbers.

292 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:38:55pm

re: #286 SanFranciscoZionist

False flag operation? More common than that.

They did not invent it, but they sure made it popular.

293 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:40:21pm

re: #292 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They did not invent it, but they sure made it popular.

My experience with both is limited, thank God.

294 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:40:26pm

re: #287 Petero1818

To be totally frank I find this entire discussion idiotic.

Herman Cain's entire candidacy has been idiotic. In any other election year he would have been marginalized as a pathetic scrub and ignored.

He's given so many reasons why he's a terrible candidate and the wingnuts are still falling all over themselves to support him and give him money because they hate Romney that much, and they're so desperate to get Obama out of office that they think just nominating any black man will do.

295 erik_t  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:40:59pm

re: #287 Petero1818

I'm not sure anybody but the crazy fringe here ever found him worthy of the office, but I fully agree with what you said regardless. That said, if he sexually assaulted a woman, it's quite worth dwelling on IMHO.

296 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:41:56pm

re: #294 Lidane

Herman Cain's entire candidacy has been idiotic. In any other election year he would have been marginalized as a pathetic scrub and ignored.

He's given so many reasons why he's a terrible candidate and the wingnuts are still falling all over themselves to support him and give him money because they hate Romney that much, and they're so desperate to get Obama out of office that they think just nominating any black man will do.

I'm going to post it again because all the signs of impending implosion have been telegraphed so badly - Maddow's take down of the Cain capmpaign so far.
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

297 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:42:08pm

LOL RomneyFail™

It all adds up to a conundrum of a candidacy. In a year when the Democratic incumbent clearly is vulnerable, 33 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents pick Romney as the GOP candidate most likely to defeat Barack Obama in the 2012 election, a dozen points above his closest competitor. Yet fewer, 24 percent, support him for the nomination, basically steady the past three months, and slightly down from his peak support, 30 percent, in July.

298 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:42:15pm

Old Man Dog is eating rice and scrambled egg.

Hope it helps his tummy calm down.

299 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:43:07pm

re: #294 Lidane

Were the incumbent not Black, nobody on the rwnj right would pay attention to HC.

He's manipulating them, but they've made themselves quite easy to kick around on this topic. They deserve to be running around defending him for sexually harassing/assaulting women.

For now, at least. That will change.

300 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:43:39pm

re: #294 Lidane

Just as Sarah Palin was supposed to be the alternative to Hillary. As if there were any comparison.
It's insulting.

301 Gus  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:44:34pm
302 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:44:47pm

re: #300 OhNoZombies!

Just as Sarah Palin was supposed to be the alternative to Hillary. As if there were any comparison.
It's insulting.

Hillary is actually qualifed to be POTUS and has been for 20 years. Sarah couldn't even hack one term as Gov of Alaska.

303 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:45:44pm

re: #297 publicityStunted

LOL RomneyFail™

Romney has the highest appeal to moderates and independents. 75% of the GOP hates him.

Lets work out which party is furthest away from mainstream America right now...

304 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:45:53pm

re: #302 ggt

Hillary is actually qualifed to be POTUS and has been for 20 years. Sarah couldn't even hack one term as Gov of Alaska.

yeah, but who has more experience with having a film crew edit a caribou to the ground for her?

305 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:46:00pm

re: #297 publicityStunted

LOL RomneyFail™

Wow. So he doesn't even get the votes of everyone who says he could win. That's sad.

306 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:46:11pm

re: #304 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

yeah, but who has more experience with having a film crew edit a caribou to the ground for her?

Hillary

307 laZardo  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:46:51pm

So I just (buzz)cut myself. How's your evening?

308 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:46:53pm

re: #302 ggt

I'd bet Hillary could tell you what she reads...

309 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:47:24pm

re: #300 OhNoZombies!

Just as Sarah Palin was supposed to be the alternative to Hillary. As if there were any comparison.
It's insulting.

The way they approach this tells on their own approach to voting and everything else. They really DO vote based on skin color and body parts, and presume everyone else does, too.

Stupid sociopaths.

310 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:48:17pm

Had to coax Old Man dog to Eat his Rice and Egg, while Bother Puppy is eating inedible parts off my chair. . . .

Ah, the circle of life.

311 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:49:05pm

re: #305 Lidane

Wow. So he doesn't even get the votes of everyone who says he could win. That's sad.

The GOP is fraked. The deeper the rabbit hole has gotten, the more the base has encircled itself around Cain and refused to believe him to be anything but honest and forthright. Meanwhile, the guy who could actually win the election (not to mention too boring to be involved in a sex scandal) is being treated like a leper and has been relying most on name recognition to keep him in the game.

Wake me up when the trainwreck has passed.

312 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:49:10pm

re: #309 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The way they approach this tells on their own approach to voting and everything else. They really DO vote based on skin color and body parts, and presume everyone else does, too.

Stupid sociopaths.

They aren't, well, let's just say that not everyone's higher brain functions are fully developed --all they have to go on is sensory input.

313 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:51:27pm

re: #305 Lidane

Wow. So he doesn't even get the votes of everyone who says he could win. That's sad.

altho the rest of the dubs who are running against him in the gop primary make him look good by comparison

314 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:51:38pm

re: #287 Petero1818

To be totally frank I find this entire discussion idiotic. We are debating whether this conduct should disqualify him, yet it was only 2 months ago the guy said he would not hire Muslims in his administration, and later said he might but only if they specifically passed some special loyalty test. Maybe it is just me but whether a guy ten years ago acted inappropriately is less important than the fact that he thinks he is justified in violating the civil rights of a few million Americans, and is comfortable saying so.

This is the GOP base were are talking about. They only have 4 requirements: 1. a person who verbalizes all of their cultural resentments 2. a person who shares the same fears and hatred 3. a person who never gives the impression that they may have had too much fancy book learnin' 4. a person who believes that Ayn Rand's objectivism and the teachings of Jesus Christ are not only compatible, but one in the same. Every person that the base of the GOP has fallen in love with over the last 3 years, starting with Sarah Palin has had these qualities. If Mitt Romney is the nominee, he will lose because he doesn't hate anybody, he's not a complete dummy and he's not the right kind of Jesus worshiper. The base of the GOP will never get a hard-on for a guy like that. Yeah, I know they hate Obama, but they hated him back in 2008 too.

315 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:51:48pm

re: #309 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No thought required. No need to understand any perspective other than a Confederate one.
They're only hurting themselves.

316 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:52:54pm

Brass tacks - any candidate outside Mitt gets hammered by independents and moderates.

If a wingnut wins - the '12 Republican campaign is a rage campaign. They don't work.

Even if the top of the ticket manages not to call Obama a Kenyan interloper on network television the base will be a frothy mixture of rage and repressed entitlement.

If anyone wants to see how that election ends they should watch the tapes of the election night in 2004.

317 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:52:55pm

re: #310 ggt

Old Man dog

i think you got the makings of a song there...

318 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:53:32pm

re: #315 OhNoZombies!

No thought required. No need to understand any perspective other than a Confederate one.
They're only hurting themselves.

Yeah, too bad they have to drag down an entire general election with this stupid whackodoodle conservatism.

These people ruin everything they touch.

319 freetoken  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:53:54pm

So, let's say R♽MNEY eventually wins the nomination (even though he might have to wait until he wins the California primary in June to make it a sure thing).

Then what? Does he take off his Wingnut costume and put back on the MA Governor costume?

320 freetoken  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:55:01pm

Sad to see Smokin' Joe has passed :-(

321 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:55:04pm

re: #317 engineer dog

i think you got the makings of a song there...

I don't have that kind of talent, I'll have to leave it up to the Lizard lyricists.

I often thought that

Monster Puppy and the Cat Overlord

would make a good cartoon strip.

:)

322 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:55:52pm

re: #318 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, maybe it's like hitting rock bottom.
They really have to feel the pain before they decide to sober up...

323 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:56:21pm

re: #308 OhNoZombies!

I'd bet Hillary could tell you what she reads...

Dirty liberals with their more than one book.

324 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:56:42pm

re: #319 freetoken

So, let's say R♽MNEY eventually wins the nomination (even though he might have to wait until he wins the California primary in June to make it a sure thing).

Then what? Does he take off his Wingnut costume and put back on the MA Governor costume?

He will, but it won't make a difference. The man has run so far away from his past that trying to embrace it after winning the nomination would be transparently BS. It's going to be like Kerry in '04, trying to play down the anti-war persona he'd adopted to get the nomination and finding that nobody believes him.

325 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:57:38pm

re: #309 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The way they approach this tells on their own approach to voting and everything else. They really DO vote based on skin color and body parts, and presume everyone else does, too.

Stupid sociopaths.

No, they are simply projecting a warped mirror image of what they believe about liberals. They think the left is all about identity politics and have no ability to grasp the concept that constituencies that tend to vote Democratic believe they are voting their own best interests and care about actual policies and outcomes of those policies. Since they don't understand this they assume it's because of group affiliation, because of course they are so obviously right about everything. They think we are stupid and crazy when in fact they are stupid and crazy to us.

326 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:58:40pm

re: #319 freetoken

So, let's say R♽MNEY eventually wins the nomination (even though he might have to wait until he wins the California primary in June to make it a sure thing).

Then what? Does he take off his Wingnut costume and put back on the MA Governor costume?

wherever he pitches it, he's got a bad brief, since it will have to be some version of the old ronald reagan, and i don't think that's gonna sell in this economy

327 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:58:51pm

re: #323 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Awl i need is the Good Book, n somebody to read it fur me.
//

328 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 8:59:56pm

re: #319 freetoken

So, let's say R♽MNEY eventually wins the nomination (even though he might have to wait until he wins the California primary in June to make it a sure thing).

Then what? Does he take off his Wingnut costume and put back on the MA Governor costume?

You have to run moderate in the General.

There is not enough red meat in texasto throw at the base to get them enthused about him though - even after all the blame they give themselves for not backing McCain strongly enough.

329 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:00:09pm

re: #327 OhNoZombies!

Awl i need is the Good Book, n somebody nekkid to read it fur me.
//

Yep.

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:00:26pm

De Toqueville was impressed with literacy in America. He noted that every house had at least a Bible and that people read it.

My how things change.

331 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:00:47pm

Weather is getting poor.

332 blueraven  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:01:29pm

re: #265 jaunte

RIP, Joe Frazier.
@AP BREAKING: Joe Frazier, the former heavyweight champion who fought Muhammad Ali three times, has died.

One of the greats...RIP Smokin Joe.

333 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:01:34pm

re: #329 darthstar

Ha !

334 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:01:44pm

re: #324 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

He will, but it won't make a difference. The man has run so far away from his past that trying to embrace it after winning the nomination would be transparently BS. It's going to be like Kerry in '04, trying to play down the anti-war persona he'd adopted to get the nomination and finding that nobody believes him.

Yeah, only worse. Kerry flip-flopped on one issue, and issue that most Americans eventually flip-flopped on as well. We weren't always a country that had a majority against the Iraq War. Romney on the other hand hasn't been able to hold a position on an major issue over the last decade that he hasn't flipped on. The man has no core beliefs on principles to speak of.

335 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:02:09pm

Another thing about a Romney nomination, particularly in light of the base's distaste for him, is that he's not going to be able to really make a dash for the middle. He'll be able to get as far as "center-right," but if he goes farther than that, he's just going to piss off the base and convince them to abandon the party at the polls.

336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:04:35pm

re: #325 moderatelyradicalliberal

No, they are simply projecting a warped mirror image of what they believe about liberals. They think the left is all about identity politics and have no ability to grasp the concept that constituencies that tend to vote Democratic believe they are voting their own best interests and care about actual policies and outcomes of those policies. Since they don't understand this they assume it's because of group affiliation, because of course they are so obviously right about everything. They think we are stupid and crazy when in fact they are stupid and crazy to us.

Well, I think they base that view on their own pathological behavior, on top of, as you suggest, just flat-out ignorance about anyone else not like themselves.

They will even tell you all about their minority groups and how/why they vote the way they do.

337 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:04:49pm

re: #335 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Another thing about a Romney nomination, particularly in light of the base's distaste for him, is that he's not going to be able to really make a dash for the middle. He'll be able to get as far as "center-right," but if he goes farther than that, he's just going to piss off the base and convince them to abandon the party at the polls.

He's already said he want's to change Medicare into a voucher program, similar to the Ryan plan. I'm beginning to think Romney isn't terribly bright.

338 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:04:51pm

re: #328 wozzablog

You have to run moderate in the General.

There is not enough red meat in texasto throw at the base to get them enthused about him though - even after all the blame they give themselves for not backing McCain strongly enough.

he'll do a lot of talking about Obama Is In Over His Head and All I Know Is If Obama Is Still President Next Year Voltrons Will Rape Our Women

339 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:05:32pm

re: #334 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, only worse. Kerry flip-flopped on one issue, and issue that most Americans eventually flip-flopped on as well. We weren't always a country that had a majority against the Iraq War. Romney on the other hand hasn't been able to hold a position on an major issue over the last decade that he hasn't flipped on. The man has no core beliefs on principles to speak of.

Romney is an arch patrician pretending to be an everyman.

340 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:06:00pm

Alright folks, just in case you're wondering what the rest of the week will bring, I give you Herman Cain's talking points by day:
Monday: "The bitch is lyin'" (we heard that one today)
Tuesday: "Yes, she did get in the car, but I didn't feel her genitals...just her frilly pink panties."
Wednesday: "Okay, I didn't pull her head down toward my crotch. I grabbed her by the back of the neck."
Thursday: "What I said the last two days was a joke...get it?"
Friday: "I'm here to proudly endorse Rick Santorum."

Sorry...That's all I got. Good night.

341 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:07:00pm

re: #337 moderatelyradicalliberal

He's already said he want's to change Medicare into a voucher program, similar to the Ryan plan. I'm beginning to think Romney isn't terribly bright.

Romneys position is startlingly moderate compared to his base.

As was Obamas on HCR.

342 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:07:33pm

re: #338 engineer dog

he'll do a lot of talking about Obama Is In Over His Head and All I Know Is If Obama Is Still President Next Year Voltrons Will Rape Our Women

If Mitt Romney slanders Voltron in that way, I will personally fuck him up. What's next? Optimus Prime is a child molester? I will not allow such aspersions to be cast!

343 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:07:43pm

re: #337 moderatelyradicalliberal

He's already said he want's to change Medicare into a voucher program, similar to the Ryan plan. I'm beginning to think Romney isn't terribly bright.

Thing is, you'd think while Cain is self-destructing, he'd be keeping quiet. Why say stuff to win over folks who are too busy defending a lost cause with almost fanatical zeal? Better to just sit back, watch the fireworks, and then step in once the dust has settled.

344 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:08:15pm

I'm off to bed.

Have a great evening all!

345 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:08:39pm

re: #338 engineer dog

he'll do a lot of talking about Obama Is In Over His Head and All I Know Is If Obama Is Still President Next Year Voltrons Will Rape Our Women

I don't see Mitt getting that dirty personally, those are Veep type statements. Top of the ticket keeps it's hands clean.

346 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:12:11pm

re: #341 wozzablog

Romneys position is startlingly moderate compared to his base.

As was Obamas on HCR.

Perhaps, but "Mitt Romney wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program" is a fairly easy catch phrase. Sometimes the inability of many Americans to do nuance can work in Democrats favor. Like I said, the man is not terribly bright.

347 Firstinla  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:12:17pm

re: #288 OhNoZombies!

You mean her?

The look on Jon Huntsman's face says" Mitt, she's found out about us."

348 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:13:18pm

re: #345 wozzablog

I don't see Mitt getting that dirty personally, those are Veep type statements. Top of the ticket keeps it's hands clean.

Yeah, he's got to find his own Palin. Which worked out so well before.

349 laZardo  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:14:23pm

Random, quasi-possibility:

Knowing they'll have to lure left-fence-leaners away from Obama, the GOP will nominate Ron Paul as a last ditch attempt.

/...because someone had to consider it.

350 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:14:56pm

re: #334 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, only worse. Kerry flip-flopped on one issue, and issue that most Americans eventually flip-flopped on as well. We weren't always a country that had a majority against the Iraq War. Romney on the other hand hasn't been able to hold a position on an major issue over the last decade that he hasn't flipped on. The man has no core beliefs on principles to speak of.

Don't matter anymore. Shit, sexual harrasment is ok today.

351 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:15:14pm

re: #347 Firstinla

It was the look on his face that cracked me up. She had to be whispering something crazy.

352 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:15:23pm

re: #343 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thing is, you'd think while Cain is self-destructing, he'd be keeping quiet. Why say stuff to win over folks who are too busy defending a lost cause with almost fanatical zeal? Better to just sit back, watch the fireworks, and then step in once the dust has settled.

Because he's not that bright and terrible at winning elections. He only looks smart because his fellow GOPers are so dumb it's a miracle they haven't forgotten how to breath.

353 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:15:27pm

I now have a blue/violet laser pointer.

Not that this means anything.

I'm just now a geek in two colors.

If the green ones come down in price, I'll be able to be a geek in three colors.

The Princess is not impressed.

354 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:15:54pm

re: #349 laZardo

Random, quasi-possibility:

Knowing they'll have to lure left-fence-leaners away from Obama, the GOP will nominate Ron Paul as a last ditch attempt.

/...because someone had to consider it.

RON PAUL 2012, BECAUSE FUCK YOU, THATS WHY!

355 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:16:45pm

re: #354 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

RON PAUL 2012, BECAUSE FUCK YOU, THATS WHY!

HERMAN CAIN 2012: YOU WANT TO JOB, DONTCHA?

356 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:17:35pm

re: #349 laZardo

Random, quasi-possibility:

Knowing they'll have to lure left-fence-leaners away from Obama, the GOP will nominate Ron Paul as a last ditch attempt.

/...because someone had to consider it.

The GOP nominates Ron Paul, Obama won't even have to campaign. Paul will shoot down his own candidacy within a week.

357 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:18:08pm

re: #345 wozzablog

I don't see Mitt getting that dirty personally, those are Veep type statements. Top of the ticket keeps it's hands clean.

well, i think in reality he will make a lot of vague warnings to the effect that re-electing obama will lead to certain economic hell - because of 'democrat policies'. this is red meat, but not a personal attack on obama

358 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:18:12pm

re: #350 Stanley Sea

Don't matter anymore. Shit, sexual harrasment is ok today.

No, no, no. According to the far right sexual harassment doesn't even exist. It's one of those liberal fairy tales like racial discrimination.

359 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:23:04pm

re: #351 OhNoZombies!

It was the look on his face that cracked me up. She had to be whispering something crazy.

I just feel sorry for Huntsman.
I know he's turned coat on his old boss, but he doesn't deserve to spend so much time locked up with crazy people, even one who wears a skirt suit so devilishly well.

360 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:23:59pm

So, you think he would still have his avid little fan base if say, the accusers were male...?
Or would they be rent seekers too?

Ok, tawk umungst yaselves...

361 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:24:29pm

re: #357 engineer dog

well, i think in reality he will make a lot of vague warnings to the effect that re-electing obama will lead to certain economic hell - because of 'democrat policies'. this is red meat, but not a personal attack on obama

Doubtless.

362 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:25:08pm

re: #355 moderatelyradicalliberal

HERMAN CAIN 2012: YOU WANT TO JOB, DONTCHA?

BACHMANN/SANTORUM, BECAUSE SNL WOULD HAVE A GREAT 4 YEARS!

363 laZardo  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:25:32pm

re: #354 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

RON PAUL 2012, BECAUSE FUCK YOU, THATS WHY!also gooold

ftfy

364 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:25:32pm

re: #349 laZardo

Random, quasi-possibility:

Knowing they'll have to lure left-fence-leaners away from Obama, the GOP will nominate Ron Paul as a last ditch attempt.

/...because someone had to consider it.

Lol they'll Selma everyone before trying to get left-leaners into their tent.

365 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:25:40pm

re: #359 wozzablog

I would think he would have wanted to sit this one out.
Maybe he knew they were crazy, but not THIS crazy.

366 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:26:57pm

re: #360 OhNoZombies!

So, you think he would still have his avid little fan base if say, the accusers were male...?
Or would they be rent seekers too?

Ok, tawk umungst yaselves...

Same for them presuming everyone who files for sexual harassment is out for easy money. Were they harassed by a male, ohhh how that perception would change.

367 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:28:19pm

re: #365 OhNoZombies!

I would think he would have wanted to sit this one out.
Maybe he knew they were crazy, but not THIS crazy.

4-8 years too soon.

This cycle needed to be purged from the GOP's system.

368 Firstinla  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:30:29pm

re: #359 wozzablog

I just feel sorry for Huntsman.
I know he's turned coat on his old boss, but he doesn't deserve to spend so much time locked up with crazy people, even one who wears a skirt suit so devilishly well.

But it was WHITE and it was AFTER September.
/

369 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:32:28pm

re: #358 moderatelyradicalliberal

No, no, no. According to the far right sexual harassment doesn't even exist. It's one of those liberal fairy tales like racial discrimination.

So-called "sexual harassment" is just a SHAKEDOWN so the skirts can get REPARATIONS!!!@1

370 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:35:27pm

re: #366 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's how it goes though. Too many of these people do not understand what its like to not have the upper hand. We live in a male dominated society, after all. The massive shift in the balance of power would cause their heads to explode.

371 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:37:07pm

re: #370 OhNoZombies!

That's how it goes though. Too many of these people do not understand what its like to not have the upper hand. We live in a male dominated society, after all. The massive shift in the balance of power would cause their heads to explode.

It does not take much to explode a bigot's head.

372 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:37:38pm

g'night folks, i totally lost track of time

373 Firstinla  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:38:43pm

re: #371 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It does not take much to explode a bigot's head.

And what comes out of it is contagious. Don't get any on you.

374 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:41:03pm

re: #373 Firstinla

Oh see, I always thought it was like the acid blood in Aliens.
Like it would burn a hole through you or something.
:-)

375 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:42:55pm

re: #286 SanFranciscoZionist

False flag operation? More common than that.

Yes, just not here in the US. But they do happen, mostly in states run by tyrants. Nazi Germany staged at least 3 false flag operations to give a claim for haing been attacked prior to invading Poland. One of these was a pair of suitcase bombs at the Tarnow railway station that killed 22 people.

376 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:43:56pm

re: #374 OhNoZombies!

Oh see, I always thought it was like the acid blood in Aliens.
Like it would burn a hole through you or something.
:-)

The secret is to aim low, you cut their legs out from under them, stopping their advance, and its easier to get a head shot when they're crawling.

377 laZardo  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:46:31pm

re: #375 Dark_Falcon

Yes, just not here in the US. But they do happen, mostly in states run by tyrants. Nazi Germany staged at least 3 false flag operations to give a claim for haing been attacked prior to invading Poland. One of these was a pair of suitcase bombs at the Tarnow railway station that killed 22 people.

OPERATION NORTHWOOD!

//i know, it was only considered, not carried out

378 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:47:03pm

re: #376 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Should I use an M41A Pulse Rifle, or something with a little more fire power...I like grenades.

379 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:49:44pm

re: #378 OhNoZombies!

Should I use an M41A Pulse Rifle, or something with a little more fire power...I like grenades.

Save grenades for when they group up or are in an enclosed space

380 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:51:53pm

re: #379 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Good idea.

381 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:51:57pm

I have the sudden urge to start using my 'Nids again.

382 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:54:01pm

One of the serious matters we have to talk about is whether a candidate is temperamentally suited to the presidency.

"You want a job".

Case closed. Cain isn't.

383 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:56:18pm

Jeesh. Almost 1am, = almost 2am, = I'll be back tomorrow.
Night guys.

384 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:59:48pm

re: #382 lostlakehiker

One of the serious matters we have to talk about is whether a candidate is temperamentally suited to the presidency.

"You want a job".

Case closed. Cain isn't.

Yeah but he never was.

Are visions of him groping a woman and putting her head in his crotch what it takes for conservatives to finally admit it, and start backing away?

385 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:00:41pm

re: #377 laZardo

OPERATION NORTHWOOD!

//i know, it was only considered, not carried out

And that right there is the key point.

386 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:02:33pm

re: #385 Dark_Falcon

If this is the operation I am thinking of that's because ole JFK had the wherewithal to go "WTF is this?" to the idea.

He realized how bad it was.

387 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:02:42pm

re: #384 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah but he never was.

Are visions of him groping a woman and putting her head in his crotch what it takes for conservatives to finally admit it, and start backing away?

Before now, it was all second hand and no accusers had been named. Now there is an accuser who has gone on camera to make specific allegations. That makes things a lot more real for those who had honest doubts.

388 Petero1818  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:02:55pm

I just realized what Cain meant when he said they will have to perform a loyalty oath for a job in his administration. //

389 Jimmi the Grey  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:03:51pm

re: #378 OhNoZombies!

Should I use an M41A Pulse Rifle, or something with a little more fire power...I like grenades.

Go with the M56 'smart' gun. Not only does it pack a bigger punch, carry more ammo and offer increased stability via it's harness, but has sensor 'smart' tracking capabilities for increased accuracy and ease of use.

390 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:06:13pm

re: #334 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, only worse. Kerry flip-flopped on one issue, and issue that most Americans eventually flip-flopped on as well. We weren't always a country that had a majority against the Iraq War. Romney on the other hand hasn't been able to hold a position on an major issue over the last decade that he hasn't flipped on. The man has no core beliefs on principles to speak of.

There's another way to look at it. What he believes in is turning around bad situations. The Olympics, MA, and a number of companies.

You can't do a turnaround if you don't hold office.

Wikipedia has a fair minded bio of Romney. His campaign style is dishonest. His conduct in office is a far cry from, oh, say, Cain's.

Look at it this way. Should Mitt step aside and watch Perry get the nomination? Or, oh, maybe Gingrich? Ron Paul? Somebody will win the Republican nomination, and it is not excluded that the state of the economy, or some external shock, will destroy Obama's already unsure chances of winning in 2012.

There is a real chance the Republican nominee will become president. So Romney arguably has an obligation to try to win the nomination. Even if that means some trimming sails to get RW primary votes.

And while we're at it, independents could vote in R. primaries. They could vote for Huntsman. He's far and away the best in the race, and it wouldn't hurt if he got some support. Those votes would serve to dilute the RW candidates' numbers, and would thus make Romney more likely to be the eventual nominee, quite without doing anything so nakedly strategic as voting for Romney.

391 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:07:38pm

re: #387 Dark_Falcon

Before now, it was all second hand and no accusers had been named. Now there is an accuser who has gone on camera to make specific allegations. That makes things a lot more real for those who had honest doubts.

I wasn't talking about doubts about the harassment, I was talking about the delusion that HC is somehow going to be the R nominee.

392 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:07:40pm

re: #386 ProLifeLiberal

If this is the operation I am thinking of that's because ole JFK had the wherewithal to go "WTF is this?" to the idea.

He realized how bad it was.

One thing I do sometimes wonder about is to ask this: What would have happened if instead of trying to maintain "plausible deniability" JFK had simply proclaimed in early 1961 that the US was not willing to accept communism right next to us and invaded Cuba openly? It would have been a violation of international law, but those don't really matter for the US (since as a practical matter we cannot be held to account). A honest invasion might have avoided a great of the humiliation we later suffered from failed attempts to get rid of Castro.

393 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:09:11pm

re: #392 Dark_Falcon

One thing I do sometimes wonder about is to ask this: What would have happened if instead of trying to maintain "plausible deniability" JFK had simply proclaimed in early 1961 that the US was not willing to accept communism right next to us and invaded Cuba openly? It would have been a violation of international law, but those don't really matter for the US (since as a practical matter we cannot be held to account). A honest invasion might have avoided a great of the humiliation we later suffered from failed attempts to get rid of Castro.

Why is that such a humiliation, because another country didn't roll over and do exactly what the US says?

394 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:11:26pm

re: #389 Jimmi the Grey

One of my favorite movies of all time...
:-)

395 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:11:48pm

re: #391 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It's a LONG time until November 2012.
Anything can happen!

396 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:12:00pm

re: #389 Jimmi the Grey

Go with the M56 'smart' gun. Not only does it pack a bigger punch, carry more ammo and offer increased stability via it's harness, but has sensor 'smart' tracking capabilities for increased accuracy and ease of use.

Its bulky and hard to handle in tight spaces.

Always opt for the Bolter.

397 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:15:39pm
398 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:15:44pm

re: #390 lostlakehiker

Wikipedia has a fair minded bio of Romney. His campaign style is dishonest. His conduct in office is a far cry from, oh, say, Cain's.

Cain doesn't have any conduct in office. He lost the only race he tried to run, in part because the opponent was able to affirmative-action-bait him.

399 John Q  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:16:36pm

"The nation needs its tax structure reformed, its spending brought under control, its debt reduced and its overall governing structure made far more responsive to the needs of the people."

Not a word about getting people back to work.

'Nuf said - clueless

400 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:17:58pm

re: #399 John Q

translation: the nation needs to cater to the ultra rich, and eliminate the middle class

401 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:19:05pm

re: #395 Floral Giraffe

It's a LONG time until November 2012.
Anything can happen!

Yeah but already cons are starting to, well, reconsider all those stunning qualifications he supposedly has to be president. I think we're going to see a lot more of this in the coming days, in part because they're just looking for any bat to beat Obama. I agree, too, that anything can happen. I've never taken my eye off of n*****head ranch guy.

402 CuriousLurker  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:20:06pm

re: #300 OhNoZombies!

Just as Sarah Palin was supposed to be the alternative to Hillary. As if there were any comparison.
It's insulting.

Speaking of Palin, whenever a politician complains about the unfairness of the MSM and their gotcha questions, it's always her whiny, nasal voice that I hear in my head. It's really annoying.

403 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:21:43pm

re: #399 John Q

"The nation needs its tax structure reformed, its spending brought under control, its debt reduced and its overall governing structure made far more responsive to the needs of the people."

Not a word about getting people back to work.

'Nuf said - clueless

it's a mystery to me how romney, and the entire gop, think they're gonna win the next election with this. the idea that this agenda will bring back jobs is not. gonna. sell.

404 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:34:48pm

Just a drive-by, I need to hit the rack, but this:

Contrary to the belief of experts, so wise and learned in the ways of politics, I do know what the established rules say I am supposed to do. I simply refuse to do it. That’s because the rules are ridiculous, and they produce leaders like Barack Obama, who play the political game like experts but govern like complete incompetents.

Dear Herman;

The rules are simple:

*Tell the fucking truth.*

If you don't do it, you are fucking toast.

If you had come out last week and said:

"You know, I had a little mid-life crisis in the late 90's where I began to doubt my sexual prowess. During that period, I treated some of the employees of the NRA badly. I screwed up. Because of may actions, my organization was forced to settle some lawsuits, for which I take full responsibility. I will say, however, that I never betrayed my wife. It was a stupid thing for me to do, but it never came to anything that broke my marriage vows."

Yours truly.

Austin_blue

405 Jimmi the Grey  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:35:23pm

re: #396 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its bulky and hard to handle in tight spaces.

Always opt for the Bolter.

I was trying to stick to the theme/genre. Plus I found it was not to hard to use in tight spaces in AvP2

But yeah, I'd take that...if I could handle it without having to use Powered Armor...or (even better) I HAD Powered Armor.

406 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:35:55pm

re: #404 austin_blue

"There are too many people in the media who are downright dishonest. They do a disservice to the American people." - Herman Cain

407 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:37:20pm

re: #405 Jimmi the Grey

I was trying to stick to the theme/genre. Plus I found it was not to hard to use in tight spaces in AvP2

But yeah, I'd take that...if I could handle it without having to use Powered Armor...or (even better) I HAD Powered Armor.

Warhammer is 40 thousand years in the future. It could still be the same genre.

Plus, the Locke pattern was designed for mortal use.

408 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:37:54pm

re: #406 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"There are too many people in the media who are downright dishonest. They do a disservice to the American people." - Herman Cain

The eruption is up to four women. Harsh. Oh, and Gloria Allred. Harshest.

409 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:48:26pm

I cannot believe how screwed up the new Netflix is. I was wanting to see the first few episodes of The Walking Dead. I knew they had it for streaming so I signed up. With some difficulty, I found a list of the episodes they had, the first 25, and watched the first two. When I tried to select the third, though, I could not get back to the list of episodes. There is a search function, or what is alleged to be such a function, but it will return only one episode of a TV series (usually the first) when you enter the series title, and no others. There is a master list of TV series, and this will link to individual episodes, but it is hundreds and hundreds of entries long and it is not even in alphabetical order. I messed with this idiocy for about 15 minutes, never could get back to what I wanted, and finally cancelled my membership. What kind of morons can't be bothered to put a list of hundreds of items in some kind of discernible order? This site must have been designed by terminal crackheads, people so stupid even Directv won't hire them, and that on an unusually bad day.

410 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:59:52pm

re: #409 Shiplord Kirel

I cannot believe how screwed up the new Netflix is. I was wanting to see the first few episodes of The Walking Dead. I knew they had it for streaming so I signed up. With some difficulty, I found a list of the episodes they had, the first 25, and watched the first two. When I tried to select the third, though, I could not get back to the list of episodes. There is a search function, or what is alleged to be such a function, but it will return only one episode of a TV series (usually the first) when you enter the series title, and no others. There is a master list of TV series, and this will link to individual episodes, but it is hundreds and hundreds of entries long and it is not even in alphabetical order. I messed with this idiocy for about 15 minutes, never could get back to what I wanted, and finally cancelled my membership. What kind of morons can't be bothered to put a list of hundreds of items in some kind of discernible order? This site must have been designed by terminal crackheads, people so stupid even Directv won't hire them, and that on an unusually bad day.

this is exactly the kind of problem that often lands on my desk as a bug report that i'm supposed to figure out how to fix. let's see...

1. link to navigate back to list of episodes from view mode of any episode
2. choice list episodes in chron order vs alpha order. default chron?
4. easy navigate from series title to list of all episodes as per 2., after search for series

how's that?

411 Gus  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:10:01pm
412 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:13:42pm

re: #407 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Warhammer is 40 thousand years in the future. It could still be the same genre.

Plus, the Locke pattern was designed for mortal use.

Indeed. I saw the new RPG-type book for 40K, featuring the Empire's version of Federal law enforcement. Interesting in that it actually has a head enforce who believes some crimes shouldn't be subject to capital punishment, at least in theory. For those who don't follow 40K, this is what little mercy can be seen in it: "Perfection belongs only to divinity and only the Emperor is divine. To believe otherwise is heretical pride. So if all men deserve rebuke, and all rebukes were lethal, what then would remain of humanity?"

413 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:22:22pm

re: #410 engineer dog

this is exactly the kind of problem that often lands on my desk as a bug report that i'm supposed to figure out how to fix. let's see...

1. link to navigate back to list of episodes from view mode of any episode
2. choice list episodes in chron order vs alpha order. default chron?
4. easy navigate from series title to list of all episodes as per 2., after search for series

how's that?

1. Might work (have to check) but I had closed the view mode and couldn't find my way back.
2. Either order would be fine for individual episodes, but it was the list of episodes itself that I couldn't find.
3. This worked (after a call to customer service) but it wasn't apparent otherwise that clicking on the title as opposed to the view link would bring up the list. Both brought up an identical summary graphic for the series when my mouse crossed them.
It also turns out the help page was down while I was doing this.

414 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:24:06pm

re: #412 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. I saw the new RPG-type book for 40K, featuring the Empire's version of Federal law enforcement. Interesting in that it actually has a head enforce who believes some crimes shouldn't be subject to capital punishment, at least in theory. For those who don't follow 40K, this is what little mercy can be seen in it: "Perfection belongs only to divinity and only the Emperor is divine. To believe otherwise is heretical pride. So if all men deserve rebuke, and all rebukes were lethal, what then would remain of humanity?"

Of course the Arbites ethos is "To be just, our law must be cruel."

415 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:25:00pm

clint eastwood in daily show

he seems to have turned into andrew jackson

416 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:26:11pm

re: #413 Shiplord Kirel

1. Doesn't have such a link.
2. Either order would be fine for individual episodes, but it was the list of episodes itself that I couldn't find.
3. This worked (after a call to customer service) but it wasn't apparent otherwise that clicking on the title as opposed to the view link would bring up the list. Both brought up an identical summary graphic for the series when my mouse crossed them.

just trying to come up with a proposal for solving the navigation problems you described

:-)

417 laZardo  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:31:54pm

re: #415 engineer dog

clint eastwood in daily show

he seems to have turned into andrew jackson

Speaking of which, anyone think J. Edgar is any good?

Michael Weston as RFK sounds promising.

418 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:34:01pm

re: #415 engineer dog

clint eastwood in daily show

he seems to have turned into andrew jackson

Does he promise to hang Bryan Fischer "as high as Hamman"?

419 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:42:41pm

re: #418 Dark_Falcon

Does he promise to hang Bryan Fischer "as high as Hamman"?

Let's hope not.

420 laZardo  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:48:13pm

re: #418 Dark_Falcon

Does he promise to hang Bryan Fischer "as high as Hamman"?

Though if he did, it wouldn't be unusual.

421 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:50:08pm

Herman Cain says he will address allegations

"We're going to have a press conference. We are taking this head on," Cain said during an appearance on ABC's "Jimmy Kimmel Live" show taped on Monday evening.

"There is not an ounce of truth in all of the accusations and my team is putting this stuff together. That's why I'm willing to do a press conference tomorrow, to set the record straight," Cain said.

422 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:50:33pm

re: #420 laZardo

Though if he did, it wouldn't be unusual.

re: #418 Dark_Falcon

Does he promise to hang Bryan Fischer "as high as Hamman"?

heh

"mr moore has made his movie; now let him try and distribute it"

423 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 12:15:31am
424 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 12:18:43am

Goodnight, folks.

425 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 12:50:34am

From 1898 (yes, 113 years ago), the Edison Male Quartette:

426 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 1:08:20am

Good grief, PaleoPat put out a new article tonight (now at Townhall "It Can't Happen Here!") that yet again fully decries that America is turning into a non-white, non-European, non-Christian nation.

He Godwin's himself in his very first sentence, mentioning "Nazi salutes" in a Moscow march. Jeesh... (For a more likely accurate reading of what happened, try here: [Link: blogs.voanews.com...] )

The droolers over at Townhall will just eat this up, as they usually do of PaleoPat's posts.

PaleoPat makes several just plain factually wrong or misleading claims in the article, and I bet no one over there even challenges them.

427 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 1:34:04am

Dvorak sym. 8, mvt. 3, Neville Marriner conducting:

428 researchok  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 1:38:29am

Morning, all

429 researchok  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 1:50:02am

re: #425 freetoken

From 1898 (yes, 113 years ago), the Edison Male Quartette:

[Video]

That's a time capsule keeper.

430 laZardo  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:17:31am

...since when did YouTube get all silver-y?

431 researchok  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:19:50am

re: #430 laZardo

Fine on my screen

432 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:21:17am

Morning Honcos.

433 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:21:42am

Morning all!

It is Dark and Blustery in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland. Dogs still insisted they go outside at 4am.

How are you?

434 laZardo  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:22:17am

re: #433 ggt

Morning all!

It is Dark and Blustery in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland. Dogs still insisted they go outside at 4am.

How are you?

2 AM AND I CAN'T SLEEP

then again I'm working 4-1 tomorrow so I guess the adjustment's for the best

435 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:23:22am

re: #426 freetoken

Good grief, PaleoPat put out a new article tonight (now at Townhall "It Can't Happen Here!") that yet again fully decries that America is turning into a non-white, non-European, non-Christian nation.

The HORROR!

/

Hey, Pat, guess what? We never were.

436 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:27:40am

re: #434 laZardo

2 AM AND I CAN'T SLEEP

then again I'm working 4-1 tomorrow so I guess the adjustment's for the best

You shouldn't drink coffee this late in the day!

:)

437 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:31:50am

PORT RICHEY — A Port Richey man with a history of drunken driving arrests and traffic violations now faces a DUI manslaughter charge in connection with a weekend accident that claimed the life of a motorcyclist.
....
Sheriff's records show seven other arrests dating back to 2007, including four related to drunken driving and the rest for driving without a license.

[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
The usual 15 year sentence will probably be upped in this case.

438 boxhead  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:32:44am

re: #435 ggt

The HORROR!

/

Hey, Pat, guess what? We never were.

Seeing formerly colonized lands reverting back to pre-colonized demographics is not a rare thing. That said, USA is a long way from reverting back to pre-Columbus demographics.

439 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:37:48am

re: #438 boxhead

Seeing formerly colonized lands reverting back to pre-colonized demographics is not a rare thing. That said, USA is a long way from reverting back to pre-Columbus demographics.

I'm a little confused as to when we were a Christian, white only country? Was that before Women got the vote?

/

440 boxhead  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:39:06am

re: #439 ggt

I'm a little confused as to when we were a Christian, white only country? Was that before Women got the vote?

/

ahhh, that depends on the History book you had in High School... :)

441 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:41:42am

re: #440 boxhead

ahhh, that depends on the History book you had in High School... :)

Pat must have had the one from Texas.

442 boxhead  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:52:07am

re: #441 ggt

Pat must have had the one from Texas.

History books always contain the bias of the author. Understanding that and learning to look beyond that should be taught to all. It should be an easier task when L Ron Hubbard quality story tellers pretending to be historians spin their version of history. But only if people are allowed to think freely. Thinking freely seems to be something that many want to squash. The ironic thing is that History can show this type of activity used by evil folks in the past.

arrrrr

443 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:54:21am

re: #442 boxhead

History books always contain the bias of the author. Understanding that and learning to look beyond that should be taught to all. It should be an easier task when L Ron Hubbard quality story tellers pretending to be historians spin their version of history. But only if people are allowed to think freely. Thinking freely seems to be something that many want to squash. The ironic thing is that History can show this type of activity used by evil folks in the past.

arrr

You mean salvation isn't coming?

Damn, I bought new shoes and everything . . .

/:)

444 boxhead  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:55:21am

re: #443 ggt

You mean salvation isn't coming?

Damn, I bought new shoes and everything . . .

/:)

On the positive side, new shoes are always cool... :)

445 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:57:59am

re: #444 boxhead

On the positive side, new shoes are always cool... :)

You have no idea!

Have you seen these?

446 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:01:38am

Chicks.

447 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:01:48am

Do you people never sleep?

448 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:02:24am

These are way cool too!

449 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:02:50am

re: #447 Decatur Deb

Do you people never sleep?

Like you can talk!

Sup?

450 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:03:09am

re: #448 ggt

These are way cool too!

Are those for working on a shrimp boat?

451 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:03:09am

re: #447 Decatur Deb

Do you people never sleep?

Sleep?
That's for the living.

452 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:03:34am

re: #450 Cannadian Club Akbar

Are those for working on a shrimp boat?

Chicago Winters!

Would be very cool for schlepping in the City.

453 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:03:54am

re: #449 ggt

Like you can talk!

Sup?

Me, my wife and our idiot dog.

How's your beast?

454 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:04:08am

re: #451 Varek Raith

Sleep?
That's for the living.

or the non-dead

455 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:04:11am

Morning Folks

456 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:04:33am

re: #446 Varek Raith

Chicks.

This guy gets filthy to get chicks:

457 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:05:04am

re: #453 Decatur Deb

Me, my wife and our idiot dog.

How's your beast?

I don't know. I refused to go outside with them at 5am. I stood at the door with the leashes. As he was insisting to go out, I assume he had business to attend to.

He seems fine, otherwise, thanks for asking!

458 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:06:09am

re: #457 ggt

Something happen to the pup?

459 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:06:33am

re: #456 Obdicut

This guy gets filthy to get chicks:

[Video]

The reporter gets a thumbs-up!

He is a good guy!

460 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:07:11am

re: #458 RogueOne

Something happen to the pup?

Old Man dog is having gastro-intestinal issues.

going to the vet today if things don't dramatically improve.

461 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:07:44am

It's very hard to explain Daylight Savings Time to a dog. My wife's not too fond of it either.

462 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:09:09am

re: #461 Decatur Deb

It's very hard to explain Daylight Savings Time to a dog. My wife's not too fond of it either.

DST is pointless and goofy.
:)

463 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:09:18am

Never fails, as soon as we get a comfortable cushion in the short-term savings account -- either an animal needs to go to the vet, or an appliance fails.

ah well, I have nothing really to complain about.

Life could be so much worse.

464 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:09:29am

re: #461 Decatur Deb

It's very hard to explain Daylight Savings Time to a dog. My wife's not too fond of it either.

I was ready to hit the sack Sunday. It was only 6:30. I hate it.

465 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:10:12am

re: #462 Varek Raith

DST is pointless and goofy.
:)

Saves a lot on candles.

466 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:10:39am

re: #464 Cannadian Club Akbar

I was ready to hit the sack Sunday. It was only 6:30. I hate it.

I know + I had more injections into my back last week, so I was sore and tired all weekend.

467 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:10:51am

My body has a hard time adjusting to DST.
So annoying.

468 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:12:02am

re: #462 Varek Raith

DST is pointless and goofy.
:)

I grew up with it and then moved to IN where they refused to play along. When they finally instituted it a few years ago I thought I was going to like it, I was mistaken.

469 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:12:04am

A few years ago, there was a non-fiction book about the attempts at controlling daylight by changing the clock thru out history. The author gave the talk like a comedian.

Put the book in my Amazon cue and never bought it.

Really enjoyed hearing his talk tho.

470 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:12:05am

When I lived in Canada for 3 months back in 1998, it got dark around 4:30. This is why drinking and suicide are big winter sports.

471 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:12:33am

re: #468 RogueOne

I grew up with it and then moved to IN where they refused to play along. When they finally instituted it a few years ago I thought I was going to like it, I was mistaken.

I know, In parts of Indiana, the time doesn't change. TV does.

472 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:12:40am

re: #465 Decatur Deb

Saves a lot on candles.

They should join us in the 19 20 21 century.
:P

473 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:13:49am

re: #470 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I lived in Canada for 3 months back in 1998, it got dark around 4:30. This is why drinking and suicide are big winter sports.

Heh, I prefer that to the sun coming up at 5 in the morning.
The sun sucks.

474 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:15:48am

re: #473 Varek Raith

Heh, I prefer that to the sun coming up at 5 in the morning.
The sun sucks.

Only to the undead. The non-dead have sunscreen.

475 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:17:45am

Here in AL, two towns are so tied to the Georgia side of the border river that they stay on Eastern time.

476 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:19:22am

Fuckin' BSOD. This computer needs to last me 4 more months.

477 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:25:31am

re: #476 Cannadian Club Akbar

Fuckin' BSOD. This computer needs to last me 4 more months.

If it's the software, can you create a partition that boots to Linux?

478 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:27:05am

re: #477 Decatur Deb

If it's the software, can you create a partition that boots to Linux?

I'm sorry. Apparently we've never met. Hi, I'm an idiot.
/

479 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:27:48am

re: #478 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sorry. Apparently we've never met. Hi, I'm an idiot.
/

I didn't understand a bit of that either.

480 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:28:39am

Here's a great big "No Shit" moment:

Holder on 'Fast and Furious': Never again
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Attorney General Eric Holder says an investigation of arms traffickers called Operation Fast and Furious was flawed in concept as well as in execution, never should have happened and "it must never happen again."

Facing tough questioning by Senate Republicans, the attorney general said in remarks prepared for a hearing Tuesday that he wants to know why and how firearms that should have been under surveillance could wind up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels.

"Unfortunately, we will feel its effects for years to come as guns that were lost during this operation continue to show up at crime scenes both here and in Mexico," the attorney general said.

481 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:29:35am

My hell week continues, gotta run. Enjoy the day people!

482 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:30:03am

re: #479 ggt

I didn't understand a bit of that either.

I kinda understood but this computer is almost 8 years old. Time for a new one.

483 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:31:14am

re: #482 Cannadian Club Akbar

I kinda understood but this computer is almost 8 years old. Time for a new one.

Yeah, I bit the bullet and did the Apple financing for my macbook. Making double, triple and quadruple payments to lessen the finance charge. OUCH! Gave up shopping for shoes until it's paid for.

484 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:33:25am

re: #478 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sorry. Apparently we've never met. Hi, I'm an idiot.
/

So am I, but my kid the Penguinista pushed Linux for years. A new machine with Windows Vista made me give in. There used to be a Linux Users Group that met (meets) in the library at Dunedin--they get time off in purgatory if they help you convert your machine.

485 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:33:34am

re: #483 ggt

Yeah, I bit the bullet and did the Apple financing for my macbook. Making double, triple and quadruple payments to lessen the finance charge. OUCH! Gave up shopping for shoes until it's paid for.

When I bought my Dell my APR was 23-24%. If I was late with the payment, the service charge was as much as the payment. I just paid it off.

486 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:35:33am

re: #485 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I bought my Dell my APR was 23-24%. If I was late with the payment, the service charge was as much as the payment. I just paid it off.

I think mine is 29.9% -- in biblical terms it's usury.

Just kills me. I need to pay it off, but then again, Old Man dog needs to go to the vet.

487 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:36:18am

re: #479 ggt

I didn't understand a bit of that either.

Kid rigged my machine so that it boots to Linux by default, but it offers a pick-list that lets me divert to Windows. I never do.

488 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:37:15am

re: #486 ggt

You can build a pc yourself: it's not that difficult.

489 Honorary Consul General  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:37:15am

Arighty. I need to get going. Fucking jobs. How do they work?:)

490 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:37:24am

re: #487 Decatur Deb

Kid rigged my machine so that it boots to Linux by default, but it offers a pick-list that lets me divert to Windows. I never do.

If you say so.

:)

491 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:38:21am

re: #488 EdDantes

You can build a pc yourself: it's not that difficult.

Does it involve welding?

492 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:40:32am

re: #491 ggt

Does it involve welding?

You can probably get by with large brass rivets.

493 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:41:10am

re: #492 Decatur Deb

You can probably get by with large brass rivets.

Yeah, I think I'm better off paying someone else.

494 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:42:39am

re: #491 ggt

Does it involve welding?

I wouldn't advise it. If you weld, things tend to melt or catch on fire. Also, avoid hammers. It's tempting,I know but just don't do it.

495 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:45:03am

re: #494 EdDantes

I wouldn't advise it. If you weld, things tend to melt or catch on fire. Also, avoid hammers. It's tempting,I know but just don't do it.

I'm pretty good with a hammer.

Welding, no so much.

I'm probably best with cordless drills.

496 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:45:10am

Herman Cain for Penn State Athletic Director!!!!

Who's with me!!!
//

Also, Good Morning Honcos!

497 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:46:15am

Joking aside, Linux can be much gentler about getting the most out of older machine resources. And it's free.

498 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:47:15am

re: #497 Decatur Deb

Joking aside, Linux can be much gentler about getting the most out of older machine resources. And it's free.

Except for people like me to have to pay people to get it going. . . .

:)

499 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:48:52am

re: #498 ggt

Except for people like me to have to pay people to get it going. . . .

:)

Find the local fanatics--they're like missionary Scientologists or Libertarians.

500 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:51:02am

re: #495 ggt

Putting a computer together is actually really easy, as long as you're meticulous and you do your research. The only tricky parts are getting the thermal compound on the CPU, and making sure that the heatsink/fan you've got is positioned well. Other than that, it's just connecting wires and slotting things into place.

I've done it multiple times now and never screwed it up (beyond reversing the power on and reset cords, so I power my computer on by pressing reset).

501 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:51:09am

re: #495 ggt

Actually, the only tool you will need is a tiny Phillips screwdriver. A PC is like an erector set.

502 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:52:10am

I don't know about you, but I need some morning kitteh.

503 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:53:11am

re: #501 EdDantes

Actually, the only tool you will need is a tiny Phillips screwdriver. A PC is like an erector set.

You know, I was more of a Lego kid.

504 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:54:25am

re: #502 ggt

I don't know about you, but I need some morning kitteh.

I miss having pets. My middle son with autism is terrified of dogs. He will have some fairly intensive therapy over Christmas when we visit my parents' farm and their two hyper Golden Retrievers and resident Cat Overlord.

505 Flounder  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:54:42am

After a little over two years, a bridge that crosses Lake Champlain in upstate NY is open.[Link: www.timesunion.com...] I got lucky and was on the demolition and ferry slip portion of the job. Two years to design/build a bridge of this size is a huge accomplishment. I didn't get invited to the opening though :(

506 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:54:58am

re: #503 ggt

You know, I was more of a Lego kid.

Then you should have no problems:

[Link: mindstorms.lego.com...]

507 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:55:05am

re: #504 rwdflynavy

I miss having pets. My middle son with autism is terrified of dogs. He will have some fairly intensive therapy over Christmas when we visit my parents' farm and their two hyper Golden Retrievers and resident Cat Overlord.

So awful. Pets are usually good with the autistic --no?

508 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:55:50am

re: #507 ggt

So awful. Pets are usually good with the autistic --no?

Yeah, we are renting now and can't have any, but I think he would do well given time to get used to them.

509 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:56:13am

re: #506 Decatur Deb

Then you should have no problems:

[Link: mindstorms.lego.com...]

More in to architecture than electronics.

Although drafting electronics was easier for me somehow. Back when drafting involved pencils and shit.

510 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:57:03am

re: #508 rwdflynavy

Yeah, we are renting now and can't have any, but I think he would do well given time to get used to them.

I predict he will get along well with the Cat Overlord.

511 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:57:31am

Well, the animals seem to be resting well. I"m going to join them and try to get some more sleep.

Have a great morning all!

512 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 3:58:38am

re: #507 ggt

So awful. Pets are usually good with the autistic --no?

Our autistic granddaughter was cold to their old beagle, but was getting fond of their new poodle--then it dug out and got hit by a car. Both dogs were small.

513 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:03:35am

re: #512 Decatur Deb

Our autistic granddaughter was cold to their old beagle, but was getting fond of their new poodle--then it dug out and got hit by a car. Both dogs were small.

A couple years ago, we visited my SIL. She has a small terrier-something. Very well behaved and my son warmed up to him pretty quickly. I hope he will have a similar reaction this Christmas.

514 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:04:17am

re: #505 Shropshire_Slasher

After a little over two years, a bridge that crosses Lake Champlain in upstate NY is open.[Link: www.timesunion.com...] I got lucky and was on the demolition and ferry slip portion of the job. Two years to design/build a bridge of this size is a huge accomplishment. I didn't get invited to the opening though :(

We don' need no steenking infrastructure.

515 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:05:49am

re: #513 rwdflynavy

A couple years ago, we visited my SIL. She has a small terrier-something. Very well behaved and my son warmed up to him pretty quickly. I hope he will have a similar reaction this Christmas.

In our case, the first dog was there before the kid, but she got input into selection of the second. Could be random.

516 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:06:40am

re: #505 Shropshire_Slasher

It looks like a mighty erection.

517 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:21:06am

When I was 8 years old my dad scolded our dog who ran down the hall with his tail between his legs. A couple of hours later, when my dad went to bed, he found his pillow was saturated with doggy urine.

518 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:21:27am

re: #516 EdDantes

It looks like a mighty erection.

Dude, Don't be a dick!
//

519 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:22:46am

re: #518 rwdflynavy

Dude, Don't be a dick!
//

I've had a couple of Nehis and I'm looking for trouble.

520 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:32:29am

It's daylight, whatever the hell the time is. Off to walk the dog.

521 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:32:29am

Nite all

522 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:59:42am

Yes Hermie, this would be so much funnier and justified if it were happening to a Dem rather than you.

523 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:07:53am

I really thought that America had made progress when news of Clinton's affairs first came out and it did not ruin his candidacy.

524 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:08:23am

re: #499 Decatur Deb

Find the local fanatics--they're like missionary Scientologists or Libertarians.

First Church of Christ, Computer Programmer.

;)

525 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:09:42am

Another Cain story popping up:

[Link: campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com...]

A former employee of the United States Agency for International Development says Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain asked her to help arrange a dinner date for him with a female audience member following a speech he delivered nine years ago.

Donna Donella, 40, of Arlington, said the USAID paid Cain to deliver a speech to businessmen and women in Egypt in 2002, during which an Egyptian businesswoman in her 30s asked Cain a question.

"And after the seminar was over," Donella told The Washington Examiner, "Cain came over to me and a colleague and said, 'Could you put me in touch with that lovely young lady who asked the question, so I can give her a more thorough answer over dinner?'"

Donella, who no longer works for USAID, said they were suspicious of Cain's motives and declined to set up the date. Cain responded, "Then you and I can have dinner." That's when two female colleagues intervened and suggested they all go to dinner together, Donella said.

Cain exhibited no inappropriate sexual behavior during the dinner, though he did order two $400 bottles of wine and stuck the women with the bill, she said.

526 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:14:18am

re: #523 ralphieboy

I think the main thing people are responding to is the idea of harassment, rather than the idea of an affair.

527 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:15:41am

re: #526 Obdicut

I think the main thing are responding to is the idea of harassment, rather than the idea of an affair.

But harassment is a liberal concept, so that's why everything is being focused solely on the sexual aspect of it defensively.
/

528 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:16:32am

When the "affair" takes place between two colleagues, one of whom is superior to the other in the hierarchy, then the issue of harassment raises its head.

529 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:17:25am

Morning. Was looking through the NY Times obits this morning and recognized a face many of us would see on TV back in the 60s. Character actor Sid Melton passed away at the age of 94. He played "Friendly Freddy" on Gomer Pyle, USMC and "Alf Monroe" on Green Acres.

Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C (S4E13) - Friendly Freddy Strikes Again

530 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:17:36am

The morning sun is shining here in Philadelphia, but all is dark in Eagle Land.

Good morning Lizards.

(I'm a Steeler fan, and they will endeavor to persevere.)

531 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:20:19am

re: #529 Gus 802

Morning. Was looking through the NY Times obits this morning and recognized a face many of us would see on TV back in the 60s. Character actor Sid Melton passed away at the age of 94. He played "Friendly Freddy" on Gomer Pyle, USMC and "Alf Monroe" on Green Acres.

Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C (S4E13) - Friendly Freddy Strikes Again

[Video]

The 60s... Was that back when wild hippy roamed the Earth?

532 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:23:53am

re: #528 ralphieboy

When the "affair" takes place between two colleagues, one of whom is superior to the other in the hierarchy, then the issue of harassment raises its head.

Sure. But it's still different than this.

533 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:24:35am

re: #531 oaktree

The 60s... Was that back when wild hippy roamed the Earth?

They had almost driven the Beats into extinction.

534 garhighway  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:25:36am

re: #530 oaktree

The morning sun is shining here in Philadelphia, but all is dark in Eagle Land.

Good morning Lizards.

(I'm a Steeler fan, and they will endeavor to persevere.)

It's sunny here in NYC, too. Morning, all.

Boy it seems like the Eagles are the new Bengals, with a very poor "talent to results" ratio. They've dug themselves a deep hole.

535 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:26:30am

re: #531 oaktree

The 60s... Was that back when wild hippy roamed the Earth?

Yep. And Heathkits were all the rage.

536 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:29:54am

re: #535 Gus 802

Yep. And Heathkits were all the rage.

I remember the Whole Earth Catalog as well, or was that a 70s artifact?

537 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:30:17am

Morning Lizardim. I am disappoint - this was supposed to be the opening snow of the season (even if not much), and now, it appears that it is going to give us a pass. Sigh.

538 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:30:48am

re: #536 oaktree

I remember the Whole Earth Catalog as well, or was that a 70s artifact?

70s

539 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:31:00am

Wow, that email from Cain made me ill. Nice attempt at calling Obama all kinds of names and deflecting blame. How's everyone today? It's dark and foggy here today. I love it.

540 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:33:59am

re: #539 iceweasel

Goth!///

The weather is crappy where I am, but some very timid snow showed up today and that's good.

541 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:34:32am

re: #539 iceweasel

Wow, that email from Cain made me ill. Nice attempt at calling Obama all kinds of names and deflecting blame. How's everyone today? It's dark and foggy here today. I love it.

Was supposed to snow here but it must have taken a different route. Clear now.

542 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:34:33am

re: #534 garhighway

It's sunny here in NYC, too. Morning, all.

Boy it seems like the Eagles are the new Bengals, with a very poor "talent to results" ratio. They've dug themselves a deep hole.

Well the Bengals are currently looking good record-wise. Whether this is legit or simply the standard Bungles behind a facade will become clear in the next month or so since Cincy gets to play both Pittsburgh and Baltimore twice still.

The Eagles are suffering from trying to do too much in a shortened training off-season, and also in my opinion falling prey to the "we can outscore anyone we play" bug-a-boo which in my opinion rarely works as a team strategy in the NFL in terms of winning championships. It will get you into the playoffs, but tends to fail after that point. And I've heard their defense described as "good D-line, good secondary, surrounding a black hole at linebacker".

543 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:36:01am

re: #539 iceweasel

Wow, that email from Cain made me ill. Nice attempt at calling Obama all kinds of names and deflecting blame. How's everyone today? It's dark and foggy here today. I love it.

I only just read it. I'm utterly gobsmacked. This guy's got brass balls to stand there and say "I'm just going to ignore this whole thing because it's made up by some random Janes on the street who are hiding behind a mask." News flash, Mr. Cain - they have names, they have faces, and I KNOW you know it. This is not going away.

544 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:37:30am

re: #540 Sergey Romanov

re: #541 Gus 802

I'm looking forward to snow this year. Then again, I always look forward to the first snow, and then after a while I get sick of it. What's everyone's plans for Thanksgiving?

545 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:37:38am

re: #543 thedopefishlives

It turns out that Beliak filed for bankruptcy twice, so expect that to be used against her all day today. And she's had tax troubles, as well. And she met her current fiancee on the internet.

546 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:38:07am

re: #543 thedopefishlives

I only just read it. I'm utterly gobsmacked. This guy's got brass balls to stand there and say "I'm just going to ignore this whole thing because it's made up by some random Janes on the street who are hiding behind a mask." News flash, Mr. Cain - they have names, they have faces, and I KNOW you know it. This is not going away.

Agreed. He's got chutzpah alright.

547 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:38:58am

re: #544 iceweasel

re: #541 Gus 802

I'm looking forward to snow this year. Then again, I always look forward to the first snow, and then after a while I get sick of it. What's everyone's plans for Thanksgiving?

No plans at press time. I'd make a sad face but that's my style. Maybe I'll get a turkey sandwich.

548 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:39:29am

re: #545 Obdicut

It turns out that Beliak filed for bankruptcy twice, so expect that to be used against her all day today. And she's had tax troubles, as well. And she met her current fiancee on the internet.

So did I. I'm OK with this.

As far as the other stuff, though, that sucks for her insofar as it's ammunition for her detractors to use, but you know, hard times fall on everybody once in a while.

549 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:40:13am

re: #544 iceweasel

re: #541 Gus 802

I'm looking forward to snow this year. Then again, I always look forward to the first snow, and then after a while I get sick of it. What's everyone's plans for Thanksgiving?

Headed to western NY to visit family work permitting. I'd also love to make another roasted pumpkin for a work potluck the week before, but don't know where I'll be able to find one. :(

Appears the prime pumpkin season here is roughly Halloween and a few weeks before for finding them easily. And I really don't have a place here (dry, dark and cool) for storing them myself for the later holidays.

550 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:40:52am

re: #544 iceweasel

re: #541 Gus 802

I'm looking forward to snow this year. Then again, I always look forward to the first snow, and then after a while I get sick of it. What's everyone's plans for Thanksgiving?

I'm looking forward to the snow too. I was almost depressed when the revised forecast showed that we're unlikely to get any. :(

Thanksgiving, we are here this year. Which turns out to be a good thing, because the rest of the family is also planning to attend. All 30 of them.

551 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:41:20am

re: #547 Gus 802

No plans at press time. I'd make a sad face but that's my style. Maybe I'll get a turkey sandwich.

I wish you could come here! You know you have a standing invite for whenever you can.

Report: Cain sought dinner date with fifth woman

He's so done.

552 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:42:17am

re: #545 Obdicut

It turns out that Beliak filed for bankruptcy twice, so expect that to be used against her all day today. And she's had tax troubles, as well. And she met her current fiancee on the internet.

Ah yes. Bankruptcy and tax troubles are so immoral. Can't wait to hear the BS from the standard bearers of morality like Andrew Breitbart and the Tea Party nuts. You know it's funny to see the wingers use "tax troubles" as a weapon against people they perceive to be on the left. Funny because typically those kinds of problems are seen as a badge of honor by the right wing under normal circumstances. People need to get it through their thick skulls that for the most part both don't make you a bad person -- shit happens.

553 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:42:32am

re: #551 iceweasel

It's really a fifth and sixth woman. He asked the organizer to arrange a dinner between himself and the Egyptian woman who'd asked a question, and then, when the organizer demurred, asked the organizer out to dinner.

He sounds lonely.

554 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:42:39am

re: #536 oaktree

I remember the Whole Earth Catalog as well, or was that a 70s artifact?

turn of the 70's, but highly inspired by the 60's-era ethos

555 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:42:59am

re: #550 thedopefishlives

I'm looking forward to the snow too. I was almost depressed when the revised forecast showed that we're unlikely to get any. :(

Thanksgiving, we are here this year. Which turns out to be a good thing, because the rest of the family is also planning to attend. All 30 of them.

30! that's a whole lotta cooking. :)

re: #549 oaktree

Headed to western NY to visit family work permitting. I'd also love to make another roasted pumpkin for a work potluck the week before, but don't know where I'll be able to find one. :(

Appears the prime pumpkin season here is roughly Halloween and a few weeks before for finding them easily. And I really don't have a place here (dry, dark and cool) for storing them myself for the later holidays.

Your roasted pumpkin sounded SO GOOD! Come to think of it, I haven't seen any pumpkins here since halloween either. :(

556 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:43:21am

re: #551 iceweasel

I wish you could come here! You know you have a standing invite for whenever you can.

Report: Cain sought dinner date with fifth woman

He's so done.

A turkey dinner date?

//

557 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:43:23am

re: #553 Obdicut

It's really a fifth and sixth woman. He asked the organizer to arrange a dinner between himself and the Egyptian woman who'd asked a question, and then, when the organizer demurred, asked the organizer out to dinner.

He sounds lonely.

Lonely and thinks that he must be irresistible to the ladies.

558 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:43:34am

re: #553 Obdicut

It's really a fifth and sixth woman. He asked the organizer to arrange a dinner between himself and the Egyptian woman who'd asked a question, and then, when the organizer demurred, asked the organizer out to dinner.

He sounds lonely.

Maybe his wife doesn't understand him. //

559 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:43:59am

re: #551 iceweasel

I wish you could come here! You know you have a standing invite for whenever you can.

Report: Cain sought dinner date with fifth woman

He's so done.

If that's the same one quoted farther up don't you love the implications from the statement about Cain sticking the women with the bill including two $400 bottles of wine? Once (and if) you accept Cain as acting in a predatory mode that smacks of petty revenge seeking after getting rebuffed.

560 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:45:00am

re: #556 Gus 802

A turkey dinner date?

//

You have to come here for thanksgiving some year. :) I make a good turkey, promise.
However, Jimmah and I have a ritual now of watching Highlander afterwards, so you've been warned.

561 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:45:09am

re: #552 Gus 802

Oh, I didn't notice, the Cain campaign has already gone there:

“After attacking Herman Cain through anonymous accusers for a week, his opponents have now convinced a woman with a long history of severe financial difficulties, including personal bankruptcy, to falsely accuse the Republican frontrunner of events occurring over a decade ago for which there is no record, nor even a complaint filed,” said Cain spokesman J.D. Gordon.

I love that while Cain is being investigated for massive impropriety in the use of non-profit funds to support his campaign he's got the gall to talk shit about a personal bankruptcy.

562 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:45:22am

re: #555 iceweasel

30! that's a whole lotta cooking. :)

My mother-in-law is what most people would call a "domestic goddess". She can whip together a full-on Thanksgiving dinner for the entire family - 20 grandkids, 7 kids (all but 1 with spouses or significant others), and her and dad. And she makes it look so easy.

563 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:45:33am

I was CEO of the Godfather's Pizza chain therefore I am qualified to be the President of the United States of America!

Derp.

564 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:46:36am

re: #558 iceweasel

Maybe his wife doesn't understand him. //

Nobody else does either.

565 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:46:59am

re: #542 oaktree

Much more fundamental than that. They believed their own hype that they would outclass everyone else in the NFC East, and they've been shocked to discover that what happens on paper is nothing like what happens on the gridiron.

They just aren't getting the job done on defense, and that's despite an offense that can run at will and have the 5th best offense. Even though they're 12th on Defense, they've given up quite a few more points than their stats would show. And can't get it done in crunch time.

566 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:47:22am

re: #563 Gus 802

Well, to be frank, his full resume is quite good, and that-wise he is no worse than say Obama. That he has disqualified himself by his pronouncements and stances (quite aside from any scandals) is another matter.

567 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:47:24am

re: #561 Obdicut

Oh, I didn't notice, the Cain campaign has already gone there:

I love that while Cain is being investigated for massive impropriety in the use of non-profit funds to support his campaign he's got the gall to talk shit about a personal bankruptcy.

Priorities.

Yeah. Bankruptcy -- bad. Sexual harassment bordering on assault -- good.

But they'll scream "he was never found guilty." So I guess we can call him an "unindicted conspirator" right?

568 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:47:40am

re: #564 thedopefishlives

Nobody else does either.

I LOL'd.

569 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:47:59am

re: #563 Gus 802

But my pizza still sucks. /

570 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:49:00am

re: #566 Sergey Romanov

Well, to be frank, his full resume is quite good, and that-wise he is no worse than say Obama. That he has disqualified himself by his pronouncements and stances (quite aside from any scandals) is another matter.

Meh. Godfather's Pizza. I would never order a pizza from a chain. And Burger King? Yeah, a good resume for being the CEO of Walmart perhaps.

571 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:50:00am

re: #569 lawhawk

But my pizza still sucks. /

Pillsbury! LOL That's what it really is I think.

572 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:50:35am

re: #570 Gus 802

I said his full resume.

"Cain is just a Godfather's pizza CEO" is "Obama is just a community organizer".

573 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:50:48am

re: #570 Gus 802

The truth is his experience as a lobbyist and working for the Federal Reserve are his best qualifications for president. But he's not touting those, because he wants to look like an outsider.

Anyway, I think he's finished now. Erik Erikson just blasted him on Red State, and I think people are using the excuse that "He's handling this badly" to drop him.

574 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:52:25am

re: #565 lawhawk

Much more fundamental than that. They believed their own hype that they would outclass everyone else in the NFC East, and they've been shocked to discover that what happens on paper is nothing like what happens on the gridiron.

They just aren't getting the job done on defense, and that's despite an offense that can run at will and have the 5th best offense. Even though they're 12th on Defense, they've given up quite a few more points than their stats would show. And can't get it done in crunch time.

Personally I think better defense gets you farther and would prefer to be the 12th ranked offense and 5th ranked defense. Though there are also synergies involved since a high-scoring offense puts pressure on opposing offenses to keep up which can allow your defense to be more aggressive, and so on.

Still half a season to go. But they're in a huge hole given the lead the Giants have and the fact that even a wildcard is going to require other teams to fail.

And they also failed to address a definite talent issue at linebacker and have been paying the price.

575 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:54:15am

I thought this was a conversation. Not a fact finding scientific study. I'm not trying to get an A on this exam.

576 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:54:23am

re: #573 Obdicut

Campaigning is a good indicator of whether a candidate can handle pressure. It exposes problems and faults with crisis management, knowledge of issues, and personality flaws.

All are coming to a head for Cain, and despite his on-the-paper qualifications as someone with finance and business experience (not anyone can work at that high level of the Federal Reserve), plus his lobbying experience, he's showing all of his flaws in spades with how he's utterly failing to handle the growing scandal.

And the sexual harassment stuff is only one half of the mess; the other is how his campaign started with Prosperity USA and potentially improper payments that violate IRC and FEC rules.

577 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:54:31am

re: #567 Gus 802

Priorities.

Yeah. Bankruptcy -- bad. Sexual harassment bordering on assault -- good.

But they'll scream "he was never found guilty." So I guess we can call him an "unindicted conspirator" right?

He was never found guilty because they never pressed charges in exchange for hush money. Am I reading this right?

578 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:55:34am

re: #574 oaktree

Also working against Philly is that the Giants have been doing this with all kinds of injuries to key players on both sides of the ball. Still have the head-to-head games to go and that could shuffle things pretty well, but the Giants are outperforming all expectations right now.

579 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:55:44am

So much for not giving in to the media's obsession. Cain is giving a presser today:

[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

580 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:56:39am

re: #579 Lidane

So much for not giving in to the media's obsession. Cain is giving a presser today:

[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Will he address all four five women who are accusing him?

581 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:57:00am

Coming up next. A 500 word rebuttal to my statement.

//

582 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:57:06am

Mornin' everyone.

583 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:57:49am

re: #574 oaktree

Personally I think better defense gets you farther and would prefer to be the 12th ranked offense and 5th ranked defense.

Well, there's also something to be said for the kind of offense that Joe Montana led. Not just high-scoring, but capable of long, long marches down the field, giving your defense time to rest and tiring the hell out of the opposing defense. It's not that easy to separate the two. The Niner's defense often had some of the fewest points allowed in the NFL, but the defensive backs all gave Montana a lot of credit for that-- by pointing out he didn't give the opposing teams a hell of a lot of time to make those points.

584 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:58:17am

re: #577 thedopefishlives

He was never found guilty because they never pressed charges in exchange for hush money this is a high tech lynching. Am I reading this right?

Yes. They're all lying, the media is obsessing over it, he has no issues with campaign finance/frying Mexicans/hiring Muslims.

When does Cain get his Nutter badge? He's earned it.

585 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:59:05am

re: #575 Gus 802

All I'm saying is that Cain is a talented man (a successful mathematician and businessman), who until recently had a track record that would not disqualify him from presidency. "Until recently" being the key words.

586 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 5:59:32am

re: #581 Gus 802

Coming up next. A 500 word rebuttal to my statement.

//

I'm really tempted just to write out "Rebuttal" 500 times now.

587 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:01:00am

re: #584 BigPapa

Yes. They're all lying, the media is obsessing over it, he has no issues with campaign finance/frying Mexicans/hiring Muslims.

When does Cain get his Nutter badge? He's earned it.

Nominated for Fiskie.

588 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:01:38am

re: #583 Obdicut

Montana won a lot of games, but he was boring. It was all about 7 yard passes. A short enough distance that he could pick out a different receiver every play and keep the defense guessing since every play looked like it was lining up the same. And he got hammered by rushers...a lot...usually just after throwing the ball.

589 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:03:14am

re: #585 Sergey Romanov

All I'm saying is that Cain is a talented man (a successful mathematician and businessman), who until recently had a track record that would not disqualify him from presidency. "Until recently" being the key words.

I got the point the first time. Right now I'm just busting some balls -- remember that I grew up in New Jersey. But yeah, Jimmy Carter was also a genius and a businessman. //

590 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:03:57am

re: #589 Gus 802

And what's wrong with Jimmy Carter?

591 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:04:06am

re: #589 Gus 802

I got the point the first time. Right now I'm just busting some balls -- remember that I grew up in New Jersey. But yeah, Jimmy Carter was also a genius and a businessman. //

And Jimmy Carter has arguably been the best ex-president in our nation's history.

592 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:05:17am

WTF?!?!

St Paul's staff have to clean up human waste INSIDE the cathedral as protesters 'use it as a latrine'

Staff at St Paul's have been forced to clear up human waste inside the cathedral, it emerged today.

They have made several trips with mops to remove the mess found on a carpet inside the church near the West Steps - just yards from the anti-capitalist protest camp.

One cleric furious at the use of the building 'as a latrine' said: ' This is desecration of a very holy place. it hurts me and it hurts the staff.'

..Meanwhile, vandals have spray painted '666' next to the main entrance.The provocative 'number of the beast' was daubed in silver paint on a wall to the left-hand side of the Christopher Wren masterpiece.

It was painted at head height in the middle of a silver painted heart near to the entrance and tagged LCDG! with an anarchist logo.

What is up with these people shitting everywhere?

593 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:05:42am

re: #588 darthstar

Montana won a lot of games, but he was boring. It was all about 7 yard passes.

What?

I have seriously never heard Montana called 'boring' before. Calm, yes. Boring, no.

594 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:06:04am

re: #591 darthstar

And Jimmy Carter has arguably been the best ex-president in our nation's history.

LOL. I bet Hamas would agree with that.

595 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:06:14am

re: #591 darthstar

And Jimmy Carter has arguably been the best ex-president in our nation's history.

I do wish Jerry Ford would have gotten a shot at doing a 4-year POTUS term of his own. But immediately post-Nixon the GOP was pretty much doomed in the '76 elections.

And IIRC, didn't Reagan give Ford something of a run in the primaries?

596 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:06:37am

re: #592 NJDhockeyfan

WTF?!?!

St Paul's staff have to clean up human waste INSIDE the cathedral as protesters 'use it as a latrine'

What is up with these people shitting everywhere?

What's up with you shitting in these threads with OWS warts?

597 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:07:06am

re: #592 NJDhockeyfan

WTF?!?!

St Paul's staff have to clean up human waste INSIDE the cathedral as protesters 'use it as a latrine'

What is up with these people shitting everywhere?

Wow, the Daily Fail with a lying headline again.

St Paul's has blamed 'hangers on' and not protesters at the tented camp which closed one of London's most iconic attractions for a number of days last month.

That's why we call them the Daily Fail.

598 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:07:16am

re: #592 NJDhockeyfan

NJD, I swear all you do every morning is show up and talk about shit...
/// (joke!)

599 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:07:50am

re: #596 BigPapa

What's up with you shitting in these threads with OWS warts?

Has posting the latest news been banned?

600 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:08:08am

re: #590 Sergey Romanov

And what's wrong with Jimmy Carter?

Well. We can start with East Timor.

601 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:09:40am

re: #597 Obdicut

Wow, the Daily Fail with a lying headline again.

That's why we call them the Daily Fail.

St Paul's 'Used As Open Latrine', Clerics Claim

Wow, the Huffington Toast with a lying headline again.

602 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:10:09am

re: #599 NJDhockeyfan

I'm kind of curious. Why did you edit out the part of the story that says that the Cathederal spokesperson isn't blaming the protesters? And the bit about protesters trying to clean off the graffiti?

603 Four More Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:10:19am

re: #599 NJDhockeyfan

Has posting the latest news been banned?

Nope, posting the latest news has never been banned from here. You have, on one occasion. But never posting the latest news. Carry on.

604 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:10:45am

Oh, good...woman #5 wasn't 14 years ago, so Cain can't be accused of just being a womanizer while he was at the NRA...she was nine years ago...in 2002.

A former USAID worker claims Herman Cain asked her to set up dinner with a woman who attended a speech he gave in 2002, the Washington Examiner is reporting tonight.

The worker — 40-year-old Donna Donella, of Arlington, Va. — told the paper that the moment came after Cain gave a paid speech in Egypt that year. A woman in the crowd posed a query to Cain during the speech, the Examiner said.

Donella told them: “And after the seminar was over, Cain came over to me and a colleague and said, ‘Could you put me in touch with that lovely young lady who asked the question, so I can give her a more thorough answer over dinner?’”

She was "suspicious of Cain's motives and delined to set up the date," the Examiner reporter wrote.

That prompted Cain to reply, "Then you and I can have dinner." Instead, some of Donella's co-workers suggested a group outing.

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

I want that woman...no? Then you'll have to do.

605 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:10:55am

Hey Ice! You have gmail open?

606 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:11:12am

re: #601 NJDhockeyfan

St Paul's 'Used As Open Latrine', Clerics Claim

Wow, the Huffington Toast with a lying headline again.

Um, no. You see, that it was used as a latrine is true. That the protesters are the ones that did it is, according to the leaders of St. Pauls, a lie.

Or do you think the cathedral spokesperson is lying?

607 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:12:49am

re: #599 NJDhockeyfan

Has posting the latest news been banned?

Fallacy fail.

608 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:13:40am

re: #602 Obdicut

I'm kind of curious. Why did you edit out the part of the story that says that the Cathederal spokesperson isn't blaming the protesters? And the bit about protesters trying to clean off the graffiti?

It doesn't fit the narrative. The OWS protesters need to be dirty vermin who shit on god's house in order to support the civics lessons people "concerned" about them are teaching their children. NJD is just trying to be a good daddy.

609 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:13:53am

Pajamarines!

//

610 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:14:40am

re: #609 Gus 802

Pajamarines!

//

Every soldier is a keyboardman!

611 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:14:41am

re: #602 Obdicut

I'm kind of curious. Why did you edit out the part of the story that says that the Cathederal spokesperson isn't blaming the protesters? And the bit about protesters trying to clean off the graffiti?

That's why I put a link there.

Why haven't the protesters cleaned up the garbage douchebags that are defecating and creating violence at these protests?

612 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:15:29am

re: #610 thedopefishlives

Every soldier is a keyboardman!

With his IQ as his weapon!

//

613 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:15:46am

re: #611 NJDhockeyfan

I'm sorry, that's not an answer to my question. I asked you why you edited those parts out. I'm glad you put the link there so that we could see the headline was dishonest and that the portion you presented gave a false impression, but why did you edit it that way?

614 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:15:50am

re: #612 Gus 802

With his IQ as his weapon!

//

This is my keyboard. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

615 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:16:21am

No wonder Cain is holding a presser today:

Poll finds plurality of Americans believe Cain allegations true

A new poll provided troubling news for the Herman Cain campaign, after 39 percent of Americans told the Pew Research Center that they believed the allegations of sexual assault during his time as president of the National Restaurant Association were true, versus just 24 percent who did not.

The poll was conducted over the past weekend, before additional allegations from former restaurant association employee Sharon Bialek surfaced Monday.

The poll also found that 43 percent of those who had heard about the allegations thought that coverage of the situation had been fair, versus 24 percent who said that it had been too tough and 14 percent who believed it had been too easy. Cain has charged that the media has sensationalized the story to hurt his campaign.

However, the right is not convinced:

If there is any consolation for Cain, it is that a plurality of Republican voters did not believe the claims to be true. Of Republicans, 39 percent said they thought the claims were false, while 29 percent said they were true. A third of Republican voters said they weren't sure.

Republican women were especially unconvinced - 46 percent believed the allegations to be untrue, versus only a third of Republican men.

616 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:16:27am

re: #614 thedopefishlives

This is my keyboard. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I will prove to you that I am the smartest man on the internet!

//

617 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:18:00am

re: #605 Gus 802

Hey Ice! You have gmail open?

I will in a sec!

618 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:18:28am

re: #611 NJDhockeyfan

That's why I put a link there.

Why haven't the protesters cleaned up the garbage douchebags that are defecating and creating violence at these protests?

They have been reporting them to the police and having them removed when they can. Mr. Teabag asshole with the AK-47...reported to police by dozens of people who were concerned about him. The guy who sexually assaulted a woman...arrested after several witnesses came forward to help identify him.

You like the shit news - that's why you gravitate toward it. Don't feign indignation at what entertains you.

619 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:18:52am

re: #615 Lidane

It's getting too big for him to ignore any longer, much as he may wish otherwise. If he continues to dodge the issue and say nothing, he is going to wither under the onslaught of a thousand magnifying glasses. Shining light on cockroaches, etc.

620 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:18:57am

re: #614 thedopefishlives

This is my keyboard. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Full Silicone Jacket?

621 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:19:04am

re: #611 NJDhockeyfan

Nice goalpost shift there.

Called on the initial dodge, so now the issue is why the protesters are not policing the area themselves.

622 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:19:28am

re: #619 thedopefishlives

He's holding a press conference today. Should be good for a laugh.

623 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:20:39am

re: #622 Obdicut

He's holding a press conference today. Should be good for a laugh.

He's still got a few copies of the journalistic code of ethics to distribute.

624 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:21:09am

re: #613 Obdicut

I'm sorry, that's not an answer to my question. I asked you why you edited those parts out. I'm glad you put the link there so that we could see the headline was dishonest and that the portion you presented gave a false impression, but why did you edit it that way?

The shitting inside St Paul's was the main part of the story, no?

I assume if this happened at a Tea Party rally with degenerates who showed up and did the same thing you would feel the same way.

625 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:21:22am

re: #622 Obdicut

He's holding a press conference today. Should be good for a laugh.

Yeah, that was mentioned upthread. I'm honestly intrigued to hear what's going to come out of his mouth. One thing is for sure: Whatever he says, it will be utter bullshit.

626 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:21:23am

I see the morning bristle and seethe is already in full swing.

627 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:22:20am

re: #624 NJDhockeyfan

The shitting inside St Paul's was the main part of the story, no?

I assume if this happened at a Tea Party rally with degenerates who showed up and did the same thing you would feel the same way.

Probably not if Cathedral staff said that they didn't think the Teabaggers were responsible.

628 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:23:08am

re: #624 NJDhockeyfan

Dodge #2. Invocation of the MBF.

629 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:23:12am

re: #626 Killgore Trout

I see the morning bristle and seethe is already in full swing.

Yes. People here look at you as a symbol of stability and non-squabbleness.

All hail Killgore!

//

630 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:23:21am

re: #626 Killgore Trout

I see the morning bristle and seethe is already in full swing.

It's just one little turd in the punchbowl. Careful where you fill your cup.

631 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:23:26am

re: #624 NJDhockeyfan

Why do you keep dodging my question?

You edited the story to remove the part where the cathedral spokesperson said that the protesters are not being blamed, and the part where protesters are helping to clean up.

Why did you do that?

Are you really trying to say that this was coincidental, that you posted a headline blaming the protesters, that you edited the story to remove the part exculpating the protesters, and that you didn't do that on purpose?

632 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:24:00am

A gathering of men. Hey, this almost like a drum circle.

//

633 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:24:22am

re: #628 oaktree

Dodge #2. Invocation of the MBF.

NJD has been taking classes in responding to questions from Herman Cain.

634 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:25:29am

re: #632 Gus 802

A gathering of men. Hey, this almost like a drum circle.

//

Hey, there's at least one Vagina-American posting!

635 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:26:02am

When the Cain press conference starts, can someone remind me to turn off my bullshit detector? It's already smoking, the things are expensive, and it's a week until payday.

636 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:26:16am

re: #626 Killgore Trout

I see the morning bristle and seethe is already in full swing.

Sort of like morning calisthenics. Gets the blood moving before going to work.

How are things this morning?

637 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:26:33am

re: #626 Killgore Trout

I see the morning bristle and seethe is already in full swing.

The Great Crap in the Cathedral Thread of 2011.

638 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:26:57am

re: #634 iceweasel

Hey, there's at least one Vagina-American posting!

That's funny...mornin' Ice...

639 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:28:07am

re: #626 Killgore Trout

I see the morning bristle and seethe is already in full swing.

Mucho seething. Apparently posting articles about all the shitting going on in public buildings at OWS protests strikes a nerve here.

640 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:28:16am

The discussion is almost irrelevant here. I would never have voted for Cain, even without these allegations surfacing.

And only a plurality of one party currently supports him, and I am sure that a large share of that is the ABM (anybody-but-Mitt) vote.

641 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:29:20am

re: #637 BigPapa

The Great Crap in the Cathedral Thread of 2011.

Not to go all medieval, but many of the great churches of Italy have urine deflectors built into the architecture of the street-level corners.

642 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:29:26am

re: #639 NJDhockeyfan

Mucho seething. Apparently posting articles about all the shitting going on in public buildings at OWS protests strikes a nerve here.

Why are you pretending not to understand that it's the dishonest headline, and your editing out the fact that St. Paul's Cathedral's spokesperson says that the protesters aren't being blamed for this, that's 'striking a nerve'?

643 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:30:10am

re: #639 NJDhockeyfan

Mucho seething. Apparently posting articles about all the shitting going on in public buildings at OWS protests strikes a nerve here.

Actually you're the Seether with Tea Party Angst.

You shit in the thread, people call you on it, you double down on the rhetoric, you imply they are seething.

Fail.

644 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:30:11am

re: #639 NJDhockeyfan

Mucho seething. Apparently posting articles about all the shitting going on in public buildings at OWS protests strikes a nerve here.

Feeling a bit beat up? Oh, go find a negative story about Jimmy Carter or Dennis Kucinich and we'll give you a do over, ya big baby. But no more selective editing.

645 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:30:43am

re: #641 Decatur Deb

Not to go all medieval, but many of the great churches of Italy have urine deflectors built into the architecture of the street-level corners.

One of the main reasons I'm glad I live in this time period; cities used to stink to goddamn high heaven. The Fleet used to be a river of shit running through London.

646 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:31:10am

re: #642 Obdicut

Why are you pretending not to understand that it's the dishonest headline, and your editing out of the fact that St. Paul's Cathedral's spokesperson says that the protesters aren't being blamed for this, that's 'striking a nerve'?

Because at this point NJD is pot-stirring and not attempting to actually hold any sort of meaningful discussion - assuming that any sort of meaningful discussion was being attempted in the first place.

647 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:31:20am

re: #644 darthstar

Feeling a bit beat up? Oh, go find a negative story about Jimmy Carter or Dennis Kucinich and we'll give you a do over, ya big baby. But no more selective editing.

Jimmy Carter and Dennis Kucinich write their own negative stories.

648 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:32:20am

re: #641 Decatur Deb
If I'm ever in N.Y.C....
IF I'm pickup by "Cash Cab"
....I hope that's one of the Questions !!!

649 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:32:44am

re: #647 NJDhockeyfan

Jimmy Carter and Dennis Kucinich write their own negative stories.

And they shit in churches!

650 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:32:58am

re: #646 oaktree

Because at this point NJD is pot-stirring and not attempting to actually hold any sort of meaningful discussion - assuming that any sort of meaningful discussion was being attempted in the first place.

No, he thinks it is pretty important to talk about all the shitting at OWS protests. Becuase if it happened at a Tea Party event, we'd all be talking about it. Because that's why.

651 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:33:51am

With all the reports of violence, rapes, defecating, attacking police, etc...who are these people and how did they end up at OWS protests without being OWS protesters?

652 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:34:37am

OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS OWS

653 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:35:11am

BBIAB

654 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:35:19am

I'm just asking rhetorical questions.....

655 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:35:47am

re: #650 BigPapa


Well, I will happily say that the hangers-on attracted by things like the Occupy protests include vandals and anarchists, and that the Tea Party types didn't attract the same crowd. It is easier for the vandals to blend in with the Occupy people. It's easier for white supremacists, militia members, and JBS people to blend in at the Tea Party protests.

656 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:36:01am

re: #652 Gus 802
...144...Right?

657 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:36:02am

re: #651 NJDhockeyfan

With all the reports of violence, rapes, defecating, attacking police, etc...who are these people and how did they end up at OWS protests without being OWS protesters?

And we get another goalpost shift.

658 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:36:09am

Ladies and gentlemen, The King has left the building. I repeat, The King has left the building.

659 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:36:18am

re: #652 Gus 802

500 times.

660 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:36:53am

re: #651 NJDhockeyfan

With all the reports of violence, rapes, defecating, attacking police, etc...who are these people and how did they end up at OWS protests without being OWS protesters?

I guess the whiney liberal meme is over. They kick ass and don't give a shit just like Honey Badger.

661 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:37:19am

I'm sure this will disappoint some folks on the Cain Train:

Herman Cain: Yes, My Wife Is A Democrat

662 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:37:58am

re: #659 Sergey Romanov

500 times.

Put it up next to Obdicut's rebuttal.

663 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:38:07am

re: #651 NJDhockeyfan

With all the reports of violence, rapes, defecating, attacking police, etc...who are these people and how did they end up at OWS protests without being OWS protesters?

OWS is not a party or a movement, it is a group of people out occupying public areas in various US cities.

Many of them are there to protest Wall Street policies and practices, others are there for various reasons, some are homeless looking for free food and a safe place to camp out, some are looking for attention, and and others are there to vandalize and incite violence.

My attention is not at all directed to OWS and how it manifests itself, but rather to the US financial industry and how it is regulated.

664 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:38:09am

re: #656 reloadingisnotahobby

...144...Right?

OWS144

665 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:39:52am

re: #663 ralphieboy

OWS is not a party or a movement, it is a group of people out occupying public areas in various US cities.

Many of them are there to protest Wall Street policies and practices, others are there for various reasons, some are homeless looking for free food and a safe place to camp out, some are looking for attention, and and others are there to vandalize and incite violence.

My attention is not at all directed to OWS and how it manifests itself, but rather to the US financial industry and how it is regulated.

Hey folks, don't forget Occupy: Voting Booth today if applicable in your precinct!

666 Sionainn  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:39:54am

re: #661 Lidane

I'm sure this will disappoint some folks on the Cain Train:

Herman Cain: Yes, My Wife Is A Democrat

That's too funny!

667 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:40:01am

re: #661 Lidane
Well....that explains everything!!
He's hitting on Conservative gals out of Curiosity/////////

668 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:40:25am

re: #655 Obdicut

Well, I will happily say that the hangers-on attracted by things like the Occupy protests include vandals and anarchists, and that the Tea Party types didn't attract the same crowd. It is easier for the vandals to blend in with the Occupy people. It's easier for white supremacists, militia members, and JBS people to blend in at the Tea Party protests.

I haven't seen anyone here deny that white supremacists, militia members, and JBS people really are present at and blending into the TP protests, and through their presence, have infiltrated the TP "movement" .

669 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:40:54am

re: #638 darthstar

That's funny...mornin' Ice...

hey darthstar. What's shakin'?

670 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:41:00am

re: #655 Obdicut

Well, I will happily say that the hangers-on attracted by things like the Occupy protests include vandals and anarchists, and that the Tea Party types didn't attract the same crowd. It is easier for the vandals to blend in with the Occupy people. It's easier for white supremacists, militia members, and JBS people to blend in at the Tea Party protests.

That's quite a reasonable and pragmatic assessment. I agree.

But quit that seething!

671 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:41:00am

re: #661 Lidane

I'm sure this will disappoint some folks on the Cain Train:

Herman Cain: Yes, My Wife Is A Democrat

SH allegations won't dissuade the freeper contingent, but this just might.

672 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:41:39am

re: #631 Obdicut

The church is trying to be diplomatic. They are having regular meetings with the protesters to prevent further problems, they are trying to be supportive. Sanitation has been an issue at many of these camps and the London camp at St Paul's is no different.

673 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:42:05am

re: #671 Sergey Romanov

SH allegations won't dissuade the freeper contingent, but this just might.

It does provide a foundation for the Cain as Manchurian Candidate being run by his Democrat wife meme.
/

674 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:42:33am

Also, the fever swamp is living in a fantasy world, especially after watching Cain on Jimmy Kimmel's show last night:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

675 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:42:45am

re: #673 oaktree

Yeah, 'swhat I mean.

676 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:44:40am

re: #661 Lidane

I'm sure this will disappoint some folks on the Cain Train:

Herman Cain: Yes, My Wife Is A Democrat

See, I _told_ you those crazy liberal women couldn't satisfy a strong, virile conservative man. That's why he had to go out and feel up those broads. Er, I mean, allegedly feel up those broads. Er, uh, yeah, DERP.

677 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:44:52am

re: #668 reine.de.tout

I haven't seen anyone here deny that white supremacists, militia members, and JBS people really are present at and blending into the TP protests, and through their presence, have infiltrated the TP "movement" .

And I haven't seen anyone here deny that anarchists and vandals are present at the Occupy places. So, that's nice.

The biggest difference between the Tea Party and the Occupy people remains, to me, that the complaints of the Tea Party people were largely ficticious, and the complaints of the Occupy people are largely real. We really do have a gigantic divide between the ultrawealthy and the rest of us in this country. The banks really did have the main part in causing the financial meltdown, and yet their executives and officers have profited from the bailouts. The increase in income in this country over the past 30 years really has gone to the upper-income earners while middle and lower-class incomes have remained flat. These are real concerns.

I still don't 'support' Occupy insofar as I think that:

A) "occupying" a public space at night causes a lot of problems for very low benefit. Reconvening daily would be a hell of a lot better, and remove the main bully stick from those criticizing them and

B) A lot of the people at Occupy are ideological non-voters. Ideological non-voters are not going to effect political change in this country, because political change involves voting.

678 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:44:56am

re: #675 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, 'swhat I mean.

So... someone in the press conference today should ask Cain whether he'd like to play a nice game of solitaire.

And then not say "Hey, look at that blonde over there." after he sees the Queen of Diamonds.
/

679 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:44:59am

re: #661 Lidane

I'm sure this will disappoint some folks on the Cain Train:

Herman Cain: Yes, My Wife Is A Democrat

Did you catch Herman Cain's "wink wink" moment about Gloria Allred on the video..."there's nothing I would hire her for" - and he repeats it - all he needed to add was an "If you know what I mean." I don't think hinting that you wouldn't let an accuser's counsel get her head anywhere near your crotch is the message you want to send, Herman.

680 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:46:35am

re: #668 reine.de.tout

I haven't seen anyone here deny that white supremacists, militia members, and JBS people really are present at and blending into the TP protests, and through their presence, have infiltrated the TP "movement" .

They didn't infiltrate the Tea Party - they ARE the tea party. JBS sponsored many of their events.

681 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:47:50am

re: #677 Obdicut

I still don't 'support' Occupy insofar as I think that:

A) "occupying" a public space at night causes a lot of problems for very low benefit. Reconvening daily would be a hell of a lot better, and remove the main bully stick from those criticizing them and

B) A lot of the people at Occupy are ideological non-voters. Ideological non-voters are not going to effect political change in this country, because political change involves voting.

The point of a lot of media attention is to keep people focused on the protestors themselves and not the overall message that is arising from the often chaotic din: namely that we need to reform the US financial industry so that it operates in the the interest of the American people and not against it.

682 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:51:06am

re: #681 ralphieboy

The point of a lot of media attention is to keep people focused on the protestors themselves and not the overall message that is arising from the often chaotic din: namely that we need to reform the US financial industry so that it operates in the the interest of the American people and not against it.

Did it ever operate that way?

My impression is more that the abuses be reigned in and properly regulated since barring nationalization (which would be a cultural disaster) the banking industry will never act beyond the interests of its executives and managers.

Which might include rebuilding a separation between investment banking and the lower profit "for the people" banking.

683 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:51:42am

re: #677 Obdicut

The non-voting part may be a blessing in some way. TP "embraced" the GOP (and vice versa) and has been somewhat of an albatross around its neck, torpedoing several viable moderates. If OWS were to go its way, they would likely endorse some of the more extreme/unpalatable candidates.

684 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:53:19am

re: #655 Obdicut

Well, I will happily say that the hangers-on attracted by things like the Occupy protests include vandals and anarchists, and that the Tea Party types didn't attract the same crowd. It is easier for the vandals to blend in with the Occupy people. It's easier for white supremacists, militia members, and JBS people to blend in at the Tea Party protests.

The notable difference being that Occupy does a lot to get the creeps out or to differentiate themselves. Haven't seen that from Tea Parties.

685 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:55:34am

re: #681 ralphieboy

People need to reread their Adam Smith. The markets are to serve the people, not the the people to serve the markets.

It is the effects of any financial system that are important, the output, not the elegance of its design or the ideological underpinnings of its working. That way lies disaster, every time, whether it's communism or free-marketeerism.

686 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:56:57am

re: #663 ralphieboy

OWS is not a party or a movement, it is a group of people out occupying public areas in various US cities.

Errr... yes it is a movement, and as such comprised of several groups autonomously yet organically interacting with one another in order to further a variety of goals not neccessarily shared by all participating groups.

687 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:57:22am

re: #683 Sergey Romanov

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of it that way. I think one very revealing thing was the polls that showed a much higher percentage of 'independents' at the Occupy things than there were at the Tea Party events. The Tea Party events really were mostly GOP members. The Occupy people have a very, very large percentage of people who are the 'radical left' to whom the Democrats are insufficiently liberal, and rather than intending to reform the Democrats from within that subgroup of protesters seem more interested in protesting the system as a whole.

688 leftynyc  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:58:03am

re: #672 Killgore Trout

The church is trying to be diplomatic. They are having regular meetings with the protesters to prevent further problems, they are trying to be supportive. Sanitation has been an issue at many of these camps and the London camp at St Paul's is no different.

Accusing the churh people of lying? You truly have no shame when it comes to a narrative, do you? Disgusting.

689 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 6:59:34am

re: #685 Obdicut

People need to reread their Adam Smith. The markets are to serve the people, not the the people to serve the markets.

It is the effects of any financial system that are important, the output, not the elegance of its design or the ideological underpinnings of its working. That way lies disaster, every time, whether it's communism or free-marketeerism.

Is three-marketeerism "All for One, and the One is the 1%"?

Oh wait, you said "free".

Never mind.

;)

690 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:00:00am

re: #672 Killgore Trout

The church is trying to be diplomatic. They are having regular meetings with the protesters to prevent further problems, they are trying to be supportive. Sanitation has been an issue at many of these camps and the London camp at St Paul's is no different.

Dirty marxist hippies are dirty! They need to be hosed down, their mouths washed with soap and their eyes washed with mace!

691 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:00:17am

7amish...time to run the boys.

692 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:02:33am

re: #684 000G

The notable difference being that Occupy does a lot to get the creeps out or to differentiate themselves. Haven't seen that from Tea Parties.

It's a much bigger movement than the tea parties were; that means correspondingly more hangers-on too.

693 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:04:07am

So, after all that bluster and tough talk yesterday about 'not playing by the media's rules,' Cain is doing a press conference today to address the new charges?

Freakin' Amateur Night.

694 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:05:01am

re: #692 iceweasel

I don't actually buy that bit. It's a much more international movement, but I don't think the protesters in Spain have a lot in common with those in the US, really. In terms of presence in the US, Occupy is smaller. I don't think that's a negative or a positive thing, though.

695 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:05:33am

re: #692 iceweasel

It's a much bigger movement than the tea parties were; that means correspondingly more hangers-on too.

Can't say I know the numbers. Got any reference material handy?

696 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:05:37am

re: #684 000G

The notable difference being that Occupy does a lot to get the creeps out or to differentiate themselves. Haven't seen that from Tea Parties.

There was, in fact, some pushback at the TPs in the form of "this is not one of us", "infiltrator" signs (similar to the "asshole" sign).

697 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:06:26am

Mayor: Current state of Occupy Portland 'not sustainable'

Portland Mayor Sam Adams on Monday issued an open letter to the Occupy Portland demonstrators, saying the increasing number of arrests, violent behavior and reports of drug abuse are "not sustainable."'
....
Meanwhile, the Oregonian reports that the second public bathroom at the Occupy Portland encampment at Chapman and Lownsdale squares was closed after cleaning workers reportedly were harassed and had a hypodermic needle thrown at them.

698 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:06:49am

re: #693 makeitstop

Freakin' Amateur Night.

The logical result of TP anti-elitism.

699 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:07:28am

re: #696 Sergey Romanov

Heehee. "Asshole" is bowdlerized in the Spy.

700 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:08:16am

re: #696 Sergey Romanov

There was, in fact, some pushback at the TPs in the form of "this is not one of us", "infiltrator" signs (similar to the "asshole" sign).

Backup?

701 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:08:31am

Report - Cain Sought Dinner Date with Fifth Woman

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Donella told them: “And after the seminar was over, Cain came over to me and a colleague and said, ‘Could you put me in touch with that lovely young lady who asked the question, so I can give her a more thorough answer over dinner?’”

She was "suspicious of Cain's motives and declined to set up the date," the Examiner reporter wrote.

That prompted Cain to reply, "Then you and I can have dinner." Instead, some of Donella's co-workers suggested a group outing.

702 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:11:44am

re: #692 iceweasel

It's a much bigger movement than the tea parties were; that means correspondingly more hangers-on too.

Not astro turfed either.

703 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:12:02am

re: #701 wozzablog

Report - Cain Sought Dinner Date with Fifth Woman

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Keeps on snowballing more and more for Cain.

704 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:13:43am

cre: #701 wozzablog

Ice beat me by a couple of hundred comments *sigh*

bears repeating tho.

705 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:14:18am

re: #697 Killgore Trout

SoCal Street Cart Vendors Hurting After ‘Occupy’ Group Splatters Blood, Urine

SAN DIEGO (CBS) — A pair of Southland street cart vendors who were forced to shut down their businesses after “Occupy” protesters vandalized their carts are hoping to get some help from local residents.

KNX 1070′s Tom Reopelle reports a fundraiser in the Gas Lamp district in San Diego on Monday night is aimed at helping two vendors get back on their feet.

The coffee and hot dog carts were located in Civic Center Plaza, the same location as the Occupy San Diego protesters.

That group first settled in to the plaza Oct. 7 and set up a tent city which has since twice been taken down by police.

Coffee cart owner Linda Jenson and hot dog cart operators Letty and Pete Soto said they initially provided free food and drink to demonstrators, but when they stopped, the protesters became violent.

And according to one city councilman, bodily fluids were used in the attacks.

“Both carts have had items stolen, have had their covers vandalized with markings and graffiti, as well as one of the carts had urine and blood splattered on it,” said Councilman Carl DeMaio.

The damages will likely require at least a complete cleaning if not a replacement of the cart covers, DeMaio said.

In addition to the attacks, the vendors also said they recently received death threats.

706 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:14:55am

re: #697 Killgore Trout

increasing number of arrests, violent behavior and reports of drug abuse

Yup, that's those traders on wallstreet alright.

707 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:15:06am

re: #684 000G

The notable difference being that Occupy does a lot to get the creeps out or to differentiate themselves. Haven't seen that from Tea Parties.

I was pretty unhappy with the way Code Pink coopted the Boston OWS to swarm the Israeli consulate. That totally sucked.

708 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:15:43am

re: #695 000G

Can't say I know the numbers. Got any reference material handy?

I don't actually. If I dig some up I'll post it for you. I was going by it having an international presence.

709 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:17:00am

re: #700 000G

Backup?

Google "tea party infiltrator signs".
Some of the sites I don't want to link to (Zombie's e.g.).
Here's a specific example:

Really, during the tea party coverage this thing did get covered in various ways.

710 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:18:57am

re: #707 Alouette

By the way, there's a kerfuffle afoot about the first Hasidic cop in NYC. A woman is claiming that he assaulted her and said some weird shit during the arrest.

[Link: gothamist.com...]

One witness claims that she used anti-semitic remarks in the arrest, another says that that's not true.

[Link: gothamist.com...]

The usual hay will be made.

711 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:19:08am

re: #709 Sergey Romanov

Google "tea party infiltrator signs".
Some of the sites I don't want to link to (Zombie's e.g.).
Here's a specific example:

[Video]Really, during the tea party coverage this thing did get covered in various ways.

Ah, thanks. I was looking for that clip because a lot of people forget that there were a few incidents of Tea Partiers trying to chase out the nuts.

712 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:19:50am

re: #711 Killgore Trout

Fair is fair.

713 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:20:58am

re: #711 Killgore Trout

Heh. Trying to chase him out a racist by calling him a Soros-paid stooge and a Communist infiltrator. That's a little on the self-defeating side.

714 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:21:53am

re: #713 Obdicut

Heh. Trying to chase him out a racist by calling him a Soros-paid stooge and a Communist infiltrator. That's a little on the self-defeating side.

Yes. They were assholes during the pushback. But there was a pushback.

715 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:23:25am

re: #714 Sergey Romanov

Yes. They were assholes during the pushback. But there was a pushback.

Was there pushback against the pushback?

/

716 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:24:06am

re: #715 Obdicut

Was there pushback against the pushback?

/

Very clever, young man. There was a pushback all way down. /

717 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:27:22am

re: #716 Sergey Romanov

Very clever, young man. There was a pushback all way down. /

Until an equilibrium was reached. And then cookies (fig newtons) were served.
/

718 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:27:45am

re: #709 Sergey Romanov

That looks like a staged staging.

719 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:28:14am

re: #718 BigPapa

That looks like a staged staging.

Looks real to me.

720 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:28:20am

Speaking of Zuccotti Park, another group of 60s throwbacks will be there today. Crosby and Nash (of Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young music fame) will be putting on a concert at 3pm today in the park. Damn. Wont be there to take that in; but you can bet that the crowds will be significant - and not just because people are out to support the OWS protesters, but to catch a glimpse of those rock legends.

721 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:29:24am

Alright. I've got a bit of work to slam through here, so I'm out for awhile.

I'm going to bet $9.99 that Cain either cancels his press conference or refuses to talk about the allegations at it.

722 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:30:23am

re: #721 Obdicut

Alright. I've got a bit of work to slam through here, so I'm out for awhile.

I'm going to bet $9.99 that Cain either cancels his press conference or refuses to talk about the allegations at it.

Maybe he'll just let one of Howards Stern's stooges take the mike for the entire period? (You know, that would probably be less damaging.)

723 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:30:51am

re: #721 Obdicut

Alright. I've got a bit of work to slam through here, so I'm out for awhile.

I'm going to bet $9.99 that Cain either cancels his press conference or refuses to talk about the allegations at it.

No bet. I'm almost certain he's going to completely dodge the issue and pound the table. Again.

724 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:31:51am
725 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:32:07am

re: #719 Sergey Romanov

Looks real to me.

Yah, I don't know. Pre-printed anti-infiltrator sign, things the 'racist' says... seems a little too plastic.

I have no doubt there are authentic instances I'm just not sure about this one is all.

726 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:32:49am

re: #723 thedopefishlives

No bet. I'm almost certain he's going to completely dodge the issue and pound the table. Again.

Hopefully he takes the shoe off before using it to pound. And it makes it much easier for him to put his foot in his mouth as well.

And it pretty much is the "nein nein nein" program at this point, isn't it?

727 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:35:33am

re: #725 BigPapa

> Pre-printed anti-infiltrator sign

Reinforces the point about the pushback. Malkin et al. did push the pre-printed signs.

> things the 'racist' says

Usual dumb bigot.

> I have no doubt there are authentic instances I'm just not sure about this one is all.

Your right, but I just see no reasons to doubt this instance.

728 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:39:16am

re: #726 oaktree

Hopefully he takes the shoe off before using it to pound. And it makes it much easier for him to put his foot in his mouth as well.

And it prety much is the "nein nein nein" program at this point, isn't it?

When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When they aren't, pound the table. Preferably with a shoe. Whilst shouting in a thick Russian accent.

729 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:41:35am

re: #709 Sergey Romanov

Google "tea party infiltrator signs".
Some of the sites I don't want to link to (Zombie's e.g.).
Here's a specific example:

[Video]Really, during the tea party coverage this thing did get covered in various ways.

I remember several "exposed liberal plants" at TP events that allegedly were supposed to make the TP look racist.

730 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:42:15am

re: #728 thedopefishlives

When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When they aren't, pound the table. Preferably with a shoe. Whilst shouting in a thick Russian accent.

Nein, nein, nein, thick Russian accent, "Godfather" pizza - sounds like some sort of commie liberal Euro-wussy thing.

731 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:43:17am

re: #730 oaktree

Don Corelone would not approve. /

733 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:44:51am

re: #728 thedopefishlives

Ve vill
Ve vill
Bury you

734 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:45:03am

re: #732 Gus 802

you glorious bastard

735 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:45:37am

re: #734 wozzablog

you glorious bastard

Gracias. ;)

736 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:46:00am

Morning all!

It's still blustery in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland. Although, it's not longer dark.

How is everyone?

737 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:48:22am

re: #701 wozzablog

Report - Cain Sought Dinner Date with Fifth Woman

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Watching Maddow from last night and it seems Bialek is the 6th or 7th, so the new politico story is 7 or 8

738 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:49:26am

re: #732 Gus 802

That's pretty shitty of you!

739 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:53:04am

re: #738 BigPapa

That's pretty shitty of you!

If they gave me an enema they could bury me in a matchbox.

//

740 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:53:23am

The only guide to engineering you'll ever need:

Image: Engineering.jpg

741 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:56:54am

re: #710 Obdicut

By the way, there's a kerfuffle afoot about the first Hasidic cop in NYC. A woman is claiming that he assaulted her and said some weird shit during the arrest.

[Link: gothamist.com...]

One witness claims that she used anti-semitic remarks in the arrest, another says that that's not true.

[Link: gothamist.com...]

The usual hay will be made.

That's from two years ago.

742 lostlakehiker  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:57:04am

re: #392 Dark_Falcon

One thing I do sometimes wonder about is to ask this: What would have happened if instead of trying to maintain "plausible deniability" JFK had simply proclaimed in early 1961 that the US was not willing to accept communism right next to us and invaded Cuba openly? It would have been a violation of international law, but those don't really matter for the US (since as a practical matter we cannot be held to account). A honest invasion might have avoided a great of the humiliation we later suffered from failed attempts to get rid of Castro.

The trouble is that humiliations can happen in either direction. A Soviet Union [or, more accurately, a Khrushchev team] bent on erasing the humiliation of having a friend rubbed out, would have been even more dangerous than the situation that did emerge.

Historians judge that there was a real probability of the Cuban missile crisis having taken a turn into outright nuclear war.

The overriding objective of statecraft in the nuclear age has to be to avoid nuclear war. The way the Cuban situation was handled achieved that. Both sides accepted a degree of humiliation, both sides backed down. No war.

Haven't we seen, in the last ten years, how wars tend to run off the rails? After 9-11, we didn't really have any option other than war, but the point remains: war, like fire, tends to get out of control.

743 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:57:52am

re: #736 ggt

Morning all!

It's still blustery in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland. Although, it's not longer dark.

How is everyone?

Large virtual dark cloud hovering over Philadelphia. Seems to have something to do with Chicago.

744 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:58:11am

re: #742 lostlakehiker

Haven't we seen, in the last ten years, how wars tend to run off the rails? After 9-11, we didn't really have any option other than war, but the point remains: war, like fire, tends to get out of control.

Which war?.

745 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 7:59:55am

re: #744 wozzablog

Eh. No point to that comment.

746 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:00:18am

must go out, alter days all.

747 zora  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:00:47am

re: #661 Lidane

I'm sure this will disappoint some folks on the Cain Train:

Herman Cain: Yes, My Wife Is A Democrat

so his wife is on the plantation. ha!

748 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:03:51am

re: #741 Alouette

That's from two years ago.

What happened in the end?

749 Achilles Tang  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:05:52am

Finally a reason to stop lurking.

The stock market is down 9.99.

750 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:07:51am

re: #748 Sergey Romanov

What happened in the end?

Last article I can find on the subject, the ticket was dismissed, the dog owner threatened to sue, but nothing further.

751 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:08:01am

re: #749 Naso Tang

Finally a reason to stop lurking.

The stock market is down 9.99.

The Dow is holding on. I guess everyone is waiting to see how things with Italy and Greece shake out. I take it as a positive sign that there doesn't seem to be much panic.

752 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:08:09am
753 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:08:25am

re: #743 oaktree

Large virtual dark cloud hovering over Philadelphia. Seems to have something to do with Chicago.

Most likely

754 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:08:31am

Ahahaha...the Cain Train is on the case!

Chicago TEA Party Lead Activist on Sharon Bialek: I did not recognize her and I was there all weekend – UPDATED!

The base is in overdrive to discredit Sharon Bialek. She really struck a nerve.

755 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:08:34am

re: #741 Alouette

That's from two years ago.

Oh, sorry, a friend of mine just sent it to me.

756 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:08:44am

re: #750 Alouette

Teh drama. :)

757 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:10:36am

Blech. Safeway Select French Roast tastes like mud. It's a good mud but not really a fine French Roast.

758 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:10:59am

re: #754 Lidane

Ahahaha...the Cain Train is on the case!

Chicago TEA Party Lead Activist on Sharon Bialek: I did not recognize her and I was there all weekend – UPDATED!

The base is in overdrive to discredit Sharon Bialek. She really struck a nerve.

I'm thinking the Cain presser this afternoon will be dedicated to smearing the accusers in every way possible. They're clearly in a panic in the Uncle Ruckus camp today.

759 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:15:28am

2 000G: listening to Death in June now and they have a song called "Takeyya". ;)

760 Kronocide  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:16:00am

'Mr Cain, did you or did you not harass that woman?'

Cain's reply here.

761 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:16:14am

re: #757 Gus 802

Blech. Safeway Select French Roast tastes like mud. It's a good mud but not really a fine French Roast.

"Houston, we've found the problem!"
/

763 allegro  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:21:38am

re: #758 makeitstop

I'm thinking the Cain presser this afternoon will be dedicated to smearing the accusers in every way possible. They're clearly in a panic in the Uncle Ruckus camp today.

The more he talks (and emails) the more distasteful the personality he displays. His narcissism drips. He, like his TP supporters, really see nothing wrong with what he did. I think his outrage at being accused is real - he honestly can't imagine what any of those women are upset about. I mean, they should be grateful for this god's attention. Right?

764 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:22:27am

Have a great day all!

I'm off to accomplish something.

765 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:22:36am

God damn it.

A friend of mind just killed himself.

I don't get it. He spent the past year getting off alcohol and meth, he was actually getting some look ins for recording a record contract, he'd lost a hundred pounds and was in great shape, and he seemed happy whenever I talked to him.

Poor bastard. I'm normally angry at people when they kill themselves but I'm just confused and sad.

His music was better than 99% of the shit out there. He could make up a song on the spot.

It's a harsh world, man.

766 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:23:18am

re: #758 makeitstop

I'm thinking the Cain presser this afternoon will be dedicated to smearing the accusers in every way possible. They're clearly in a panic in the Uncle Ruckus camp today.

It's going to be a hilarious train wreck.

If his poll numbers go up after all this, it will be a sad, sad statement about the GOP, both in their attitude towards women and in their hatred of Mitt Romney.

767 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:23:25am

re: #765 Obdicut

damn.

768 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:24:08am

re: #765 Obdicut

My condolences. And stuff like that sucks.

769 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:24:52am

re: #765 Obdicut

That sucks. I'm sorry to hear it. :(

770 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:25:45am

re: #728 thedopefishlives

When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When they aren't, pound the table. Preferably with a shoe. Whilst shouting in a thick Russian accent.

Russian with a thick Ukranian accent...

771 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:26:04am

BTW


God Speed, Smokin' Joe Frazier

I was around for the tail end of the careers of some great boxers

Sonny Liston,, Floyd Patterson. But I'll say in my lifetime there were no greater series of fights than Joe vs Muhammad Ali

[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

772 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:26:31am

re: #765 Obdicut

Sorry for your loss

773 Sionainn  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:26:33am

re: #765 Obdicut

My condolences, Obdicut.

774 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:28:13am

re: #762 Killgore Trout

Occupy Portland Arrests and Public Safety Updates


Two males have handcuffed themselves to re-bar inside of a 50 gallon barrel filled with hardened cement and various metal fragments

Me,, I'd leave them there,, with a table full of food about 10 yards away!
/

775 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:28:42am

I'd been telling him to get his stuff up on youtube, and he'd demurred. Now it'll never go up.

I wish you guys could have heard him. He was funny as hell. Great inverted country sounds, like Uncle Tupelo, his favorite band.

In memoriam, Big Jesse:

776 garhighway  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:29:29am

re: #775 Obdicut

I'd been telling him to get his stuff up on youtube, and he'd demurred. Now it'll never go up.

I wish you guys could have heard him. He was funny as hell. Great inverted country sounds, like Uncle Tupelo, his favorite band.

In memoriam, Big Jesse:

[Video]

That's an absolute shame. My condolences on your loss.

777 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:29:39am

re: #765 Obdicut

God damn it.

A friend of mind just killed himself.

I don't get it. He spent the past year getting off alcohol and meth, he was actually getting some look ins for recording a record contract, he'd lost a hundred pounds and was in great shape, and he seemed happy whenever I talked to him.

Poor bastard. I'm normally angry at people when they kill themselves but I'm just confused and sad.

His music was better than 99% of the shit out there. He could make up a song on the spot.

It's a harsh world, man.

Oh, man. Sympathies, Obdi.

I've seen that happen before. There's no discerning what goes through the minds of creative people like that. Suicide has always been a sad mystery to me. I could never understand how someone could arrive at the conclusion that it was the only option they have left.

If I live to be 100, I'll never understand it.

778 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:30:25am

re: #765 Obdicut

God damn it.

A friend of mind just killed himself.

I don't get it. He spent the past year getting off alcohol and meth, he was actually getting some look ins for recording a record contract, he'd lost a hundred pounds and was in great shape, and he seemed happy whenever I talked to him.

Poor bastard. I'm normally angry at people when they kill themselves but I'm just confused and sad.

His music was better than 99% of the shit out there. He could make up a song on the spot.

It's a harsh world, man.

That's horrible.

779 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:33:36am

{{{Obdicut}}}

780 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:35:48am

Oh man, he is up on youtube.

781 Achilles Tang  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:36:56am

re: #751 Killgore Trout

The Dow is holding on. I guess everyone is waiting to see how things with Italy and Greece shake out. I take it as a positive sign that there doesn't seem to be much panic.

Don't hold your breath. Up or down 200+ is becoming the norm these days, and Italy is only now coming on the radar in a serious sense.

Also, don't forget we have a scheduled Republican/TP cliff hanger coming up, all in the background of a bevy of presidential buffoon candidates that makes the rest of the world wonder what the average IQ of Americans has dropped to.

782 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:37:21am

Thank you to whoever the hell managed to convince him to record some stuff. At least we have that.

And back when he really was big jesse:

783 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:42:58am

re: #780 Obdicut

Oh man, he is up on youtube.

[Video]

That was a pretty damned good Cash imitation.

784 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:44:08am

re: #783 makeitstop

That was a pretty damned good Cash imitation.

It was his original stuff I was telling him to put up. He never did. All I can find is him doing covers, which he did great, but... his stuff was killer.

785 chbartle  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:57:08am

"proscribes" - I don't think he meant that. I am tired of C students.


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
5 days ago
Views: 143 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 305 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1