David Frum: ‘Racial Animus, Unconcealed and Unapologetic’

Politics • Views: 5,204

David Frum calls out Newt Gingrich: Gingrich: Obama Wants Whitey’s Money.

As for the underlying D’Souza article that inspired Gingrich, what is there to be said? When last was there such a brazen outburst of race-baiting in the service of partisan politics at the national level? George Wallace took more care to sound race-neutral.

Here’s the question, though, for the rest of us: Why do Forbes (which presumably has many choices of cover material) and Gingrich imagine that such a message will resonate with their conservative audience? Nothing more offends conservatives than liberal accusations of racial animus. Yet here is racial animus, unconcealed and unapologetic, and it is seized by savvy editors and an ambitious politician as just the material to please a conservative audience. That’s an insult to every conservative in America.

Conservatives object to the Obama administration as too expensive, too regulatory, too intrusive, too beholden to Democratic special interest groups, and too apologetic about America’s role in the world. It’s a libel to claim that we object to the administration as too black or too alien. Bad enough when the libel is issued by liberals. Much worse when it is heard from our own writers, from magazines that speak to us, from political leaders who would speak for us.

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592 comments
1 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:22:52pm

I treasure David Frum. He reminds me that I'm not wrong to think that one can be right of moderate and not be crazy about it.

2 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:25:42pm

Fresh thread. Cool. Evening Honcos.

3 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:27:04pm

Evening lizards! It's been a long day. What have I missed?

4 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:29:22pm

re: #3 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards! It's been a long day. What have I missed?

Rays/Yanks, 11th inning, 0-0.

5 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:29:58pm

What does animus mean? & why does google chrome keep dumping this site?

6 jaunte  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:30:34pm

Dave Weigel: Dinesh D'Souza's Brazilian Conspiracy Theory
[Link: www.slate.com...]

7 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:31:18pm

re: #5 brookly red

What does animus mean?

Dominant attitude or belief.

8 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:32:20pm

Frum is deluded if he thinks charges of GOP racism are in any way libelous.

9 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:32:46pm

re: #4 Cannadian Club Akbar

Rays/Yanks, 11th inning, 0-0.

The football game is over. Time to change the channel to baseball, thanks!

10 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:33:35pm

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dominant attitude or belief.

thanks... now what about google?

11 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:33:37pm

re: #9 NJDhockeyfan

The football game is over. Time to change the channel to baseball, thanks!

Another game will be on soon. KC/SD.

12 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:34:08pm

re: #10 brookly red

thanks... now what about google?

Google is a noun and a verb.
/

13 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:34:17pm

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dominant attitude or belief.

Nope. In this case, enmity.

14 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:35:34pm

Frum isn't quite getting it. He's still trying to cling to a party that's rejecting him.

15 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:35:52pm

How can calling the GOP "racist" be libel when we see daily proof?

16 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:36:03pm

re: #13 Cato the Elder

Nope. In this case, enmity.

It can have both positive and negative connotations

17 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:36:24pm

re: #3 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards! It's been a long day. What have I missed?

New Jersey was kicked out of the union...

18 thatthatisis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:37:34pm

So Frum says the liberals say this is racist, and he says now their own are saying it's racist. Instead of being upset about this being a libel, maybe he ought to consider that it may be true.

19 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:38:38pm

re: #17 brookly red

New Jersey was kicked out of the union...

Blasphemy! They would never get rid of NJ. Most of the great food is there.

20 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:39:26pm

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

Blasphemy! They would never get rid of NJ. Most of the great food is there.

OK. The Devils are now in the AHL.

21 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:39:35pm

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

Blasphemy! They would never get rid of NJ. Most of the great food is there.

Which exit?

22 thatthatisis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:39:53pm

re: #15 Cato the Elder

Sorry, didn't see your post. Didn't mean to sound like a parrot.

23 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:39:59pm

RAYS WIN!! 1-0!! Walk off HR!

24 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:40:37pm

re: #18 thatthatisis

Well, there's the problem. He is presumably trying to gently bring this fact to the attention of the leadership without upsetting the racist element. The "I'm not a racist, but..." crowd won't notice the truth of the statement anyway.

25 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:40:57pm

TB just beat the Yankees with a home run. Going to the next football game. I love this time of year. :)

26 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:42:39pm

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

TB just beat the Yankees with a home run. Going to the next football game. I love this time of year. :)

I'm right there with ya!!

27 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:43:38pm

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Which exit?

Just got off before the GW bridge. Hit the German butcher first in Union then hit the Summit bakery down the street.

28 Irenicum  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:44:57pm

re: #27 NJDhockeyfan

Stop off in Kearny and pick up some haggis.

29 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:45:04pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

I treasure David Frum. He reminds me that I'm not wrong to think that one can be right of moderate and not be crazy about it.

Amen.
When I start wondering what's happened to me, I check in with Frum, and realize it ain't me that's changed.

30 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:45:14pm

The Chiefs/Chargers game is going to get hit by a thunderstorm soon.

31 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:45:52pm

I want to say cheerleader rule but I knew a cheerleader for the Miami Heat. Not so much.

32 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:46:21pm

David I have so much respect for you, its such a shame you decide to stick it out with these people...

33 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:46:31pm

re: #28 Irenicum

Stop off in Kearny and pick up some haggis.

I heard they use dog stomachs there...

34 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:47:28pm

re: #14 Charles

Frum isn't quite getting it. He's still trying to cling to a party that's rejecting him.

So am I, Charles. He's hanging in despite the abuse, waiting for a time when he'll again be listened to. I hope that day comes soon.

35 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:47:47pm

re: #33 brookly red

I heard they use dog stomachs there...

Did they run out of sheep stomachs?

36 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:48:00pm

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It can have both positive and negative connotations

Not in this context.

37 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:48:32pm

re: #36 Cato the Elder

Not in this context.

Context is everything.

38 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:48:38pm

re: #35 b_sharp

Did they run out of sheep stomachs?

I guess...

39 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:48:39pm

I can understand Frum's tenacious grip to his Party. When you've been part of a community for so long, it can be hard to leave (platitude noted).

Frum is doing what more right-of-center people should do, criticize the bad craziness and try to kick them out of the conservative movement.

40 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:48:47pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

So am I, Charles. He's hanging in despite the abuse, waiting for a time when he'll again be listened to. I hope that day comes soon.

You shouldn't vote for them until they do better DF the GOP doesn't deserve the vote of someone as intelligent and kind as you.

41 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:48:50pm

re: #29 reine.de.tout

Amen.
When I start wondering what's happened to me, I check in with Frum, and realize it ain't me that's changed.

Don't lose that. I do feel a renewed sympathy these days for conservatives about what has happened to their movement. It's a shame.

42 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:49:01pm

re: #30 prairiefire

The Chiefs/Chargers game is going to get hit by a thunderstorm soon.

Bring on the ground game!!

43 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:49:36pm

re: #28 Irenicum

Stop off in Kearny and pick up some haggis.

Don't forget the fresh bagels in Springfield first thing in the morning.

44 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:50:48pm

re: #43 NJDhockeyfan

Don't forget the fresh bagels in Springfield first thing in the morning.

I always wondered where the Simpsons came from ;)

45 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:51:01pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

So am I, Charles. He's hanging in despite the abuse, waiting for a time when he'll again be listened to. I hope that day comes soon.

It will. I may be optimistic, but I think that the Tea Party "movement" will be history by 2014 (maybe even before 2012).

Extremist movements tend to lose steam after 3-5 years, look at the Hatriots, Lyndon LeRouche, the moonbats, etc.

46 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:51:22pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Context is everything.

CONTEXT IS FOR THE WEAK!

47 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:51:57pm

David Frum is one of the last reasonable conservatives of the old school. Unfortunately he's been ostracized by a party and a movement that has been largely taken over by muscle headed reactionaries and extremists.

48 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:52:04pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

I'm afraid I left the Republicans several years ago over the torture issue. I was never a really good Republican and I'm now a not very good Democrat. I would be happy if the Repubs returned to sanity though.

49 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:52:34pm

re: #46 jamesfirecat

CONTEXT IS FOR THE WEAK!

You're confusing context and sanity again James.

50 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:52:50pm

re: #46 jamesfirecat

CONTEXT IS FOR THE WEAK!

Quote miners hate context. It makes their digging worthless.

51 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:52:54pm

re: #48 calochortus

I'm afraid I left the Republicans several years ago over the torture issue. I was never a really good Republican and I'm now a not very good Democrat. I would be happy if the Repubs returned to sanity though.

Ever considered becoming a registered Independent?

52 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:53:21pm

re: #40 jamesfirecat

You shouldn't vote for them until they do better DF the GOP doesn't deserve the vote of someone as intelligent and kind as you.

It's not a case of "deserve", James. Both the GOP candidates for Senate and my congressional district are solid and sane men whom I can vote for without regret. And I have to vote for Bill Brady, even though he's a creationist. Illinois needs reform, and Pat Quinn is not the man to bring it. Brady has a much better chance of success and he won't raise my taxes, so he gets my vote.

53 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:53:24pm

When Obama's candidacy was first mooted, I thought it might be a loser because America was still too racist. Although he won, I was right.

54 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:53:40pm

re: #44 brookly red

I always wondered where the Simpsons came from ;)

Heh. They were in the competition to host The Simpsons Movie premiere back in 2007.

55 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:53:46pm

re: #48 calochortus

I'm afraid I left the Republicans several years ago over the torture issue. I was never a really good Republican and I'm now a not very good Democrat. I would be happy if the Repubs returned to sanity though.

We don't want you to be good. Dems just shoot for "plausible".

56 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:53:50pm

re: #45 Max D. Reinhardt

It will. I may be optimistic, but I think that the Tea Party "movement" will be history by 2014 (maybe even before 2012).

Extremist movements tend to lose steam after 3-5 years, look at the Hatriots, Lyndon LeRouche, the moonbats, etc.

It's not gonna happen before 2012

If they do good in the 2010 elections (and sadly it looks like they will) the people in charge of the GOP will think that this is the way the wind is blowing so they'll quadruple down on the Tea Party People.

Then when they Run Captain Crazypants for president in 2012 and get anhilated at the polls, THAT might shake some sense into them.

57 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:54:18pm

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You're confusing context and sanity again James.

I FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME... IT IS A GOOD PAIN!

58 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:54:36pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Don't lose that. I do feel a renewed sympathy these days for conservatives about what has happened to their movement. It's a shame.

Oh, I won't.
1. I'm not crazy, and
2. I still have a brain.

Seems most of the conservative spokespeople have lost theirs.

59 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:55:05pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

It's not a case of "deserve", James. Both the GOP candidates for Senate and my congressional district are solid and sane men whom I can vote for without regret. And I have to vote for Bill Brady, even though he's a creationist. Illinois needs reform, and Pat Quinn is not the man to bring it. Brady has a much better chance of success and he won't raise my taxes, so he gets my vote.

Fair enough but who would you vote for over Obama in 2012?

60 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:55:14pm
Bad enough when the libel is issued by liberals.

What is he referring to?

61 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:55:24pm

re: #51 Max D. Reinhardt

Ever considered becoming a registered Independent?

What benefit would that do? I'm not registered to any party. I don't want to be bothered by them call for money.

62 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:55:29pm

re: #56 jamesfirecat

It's not gonna happen before 2012

If they do good in the 2010 elections (and sadly it looks like they will) the people in charge of the GOP will think that this is the way the wind is blowing so they'll quadruple down on the Tea Party People.

Then when they Run Captain Crazypants for president in 2012 and get anhilated at the polls, THAT might shake some sense into them.

and what if crazypants wins?

63 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:55:41pm

re: #57 jamesfirecat

I FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME... IT IS A GOOD PAIN!

Bloody heretics.

64 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:55:44pm

re: #51 Max D. Reinhardt

There wouldn't be much point in being an independent since I wouldn't be able to vote in anyone's primary.

65 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:55:47pm

re: #55 Decatur Deb

We don't want you to be good. Dems just shoot for "plausible".

Don't filibuster whatever we're working on and you're leaps and bounds ahead of some of the idiots we've elected to the senate.

66 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:56:08pm

Since we had a flouncer downstairs, I've got the grill out and we'll have a Troll-B-Q in 30 minutes.

67 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:56:30pm

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

What benefit would that do? I'm not registered to any party. I don't want to be bothered by them call for money.

Send a money order. I learned the hard way.

68 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:56:30pm

re: #62 brookly red

and what if crazypants wins?

Then...

(Spins wheel)

COME ON BIG CLICHE BIG CLICHE BIG CLICHE.....!


"God help us all..."

69 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:56:46pm

re: #56 jamesfirecat

Remember when the Dems took Congress in 2006? Right wingers thought that the Dems were going to go nuts with Bush/Cheney impeachment hearings, obstruction of troop funds, etc. With the exception of loony Kucinich, the Democrats broke away from the whole "Bush is a traitor" moniker.

All too often, the responsibilities of office moderate American politicians.

70 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:56:57pm

re: #55 Decatur Deb

Plausible works for me.

71 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:56:58pm

re: #66 Dark_Falcon

Since we had a flouncer downstairs, I've got the grill out and we'll have a Troll-B-Q in 30 minutes.

Who?

72 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:57:28pm

re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who?

No one of note.

73 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:57:52pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

So you make "taxes" the litmus test? Chortle. "Read my lips!"

74 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:57:53pm

re: #60 marjoriemoon

What is he referring to?

The way I read it, he's not talking about genuine libel.

He's using the term the way conservatives think about charges of racism - it's untrue of us.

And he's saying, but look - what he sees coming from today's crop of conservatives is - actual racism.

Yet here is racial animus, unconcealed and unapologetic, and it is seized by savvy editors and an ambitious politician as just the material to please a conservative audience.

75 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:57:55pm

re: #66 Dark_Falcon

Since we had a flouncer downstairs, I've got the grill out and we'll have a Troll-B-Q in 30 minutes.

Beer and side requests, now being taken.
Cheese puns, not accepted.

76 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:58:24pm

re: #67 Cannadian Club Akbar

Send a money order. I learned the hard way.

Screw that. None of them have earned a penny as far as I'm concerned. They are all dirty lying sacks.

77 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:58:24pm

re: #59 jamesfirecat

Fair enough but who would you vote for over Obama in 2012?

Not Newt, not after his toxic race-spew. I'll wait and see who looks good in the primary and support that person. It's too soon to know what I'll be doing in 2012.

78 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:58:28pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

We sensible conservatives sometimes have to find out own way. Particularly the fiscal conservative who is quite unhappy with the methods chosen to attempt to help the economy. It seems we can only advocate fiscal conservatism inside our own checkbooks.Nobody else has the patience to even listen.

79 jaunte  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:58:31pm

re: #75 Floral Giraffe

Curdses!

80 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:58:35pm

re: #68 jamesfirecat

Then...

(Spins wheel)

COME ON BIG CLICHE BIG CLICHE BIG CLICHE...!

"God help us all..."

some say that God helps those that help them selves...

(I assume that doesn't mean help them selves to our tax dollars)

81 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:59:01pm

re: #69 Max D. Reinhardt

Remember when the Dems took Congress in 2006? Right wingers thought that the Dems were going to go nuts with Bush/Cheney impeachment hearings, obstruction of troop funds, etc. With the exception of loony Kucinich, the Democrats broke away from the whole "Bush is a traitor" moniker.

All too often, the responsibilities of office moderate American politicians.

///Yeah we sure saw a lot of that under Clinton when the Republicans held control of the congress.

82 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:59:13pm

re: #75 Floral Giraffe

Beer and side requests, now being taken.
Cheese puns, not accepted.

Tater salad?

83 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:59:14pm

re: #75 Floral Giraffe

Beer and side requests, now being taken.
Cheese puns, not accepted.

six pack of house & onion rings please...

84 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:59:17pm

re: #48 calochortus

I was never a really good Republican and I'm now a not very good Democrat. I would be happy if the Repubs returned to sanity though.

I've never been a good Democrat, since they have a knack for driving me crazy and for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I also could never be a Republican. I just can't overlook all the anti-science, anti-intellectual stuff and the more strident social conservatism that they push. No way could I support that at the polls.

That said, I'd love for the GOP to finally exile all the bad crazy and let it all go to the Constitution Party where it belongs. It's not going to happen anytime soon, though. The crazy is far too entrenched in the party, and at all levels.

85 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:59:39pm

re: #78 Rightwingconspirator

We sensible conservatives sometimes have to find out own way. Particularly the fiscal conservative who is quite unhappy with the methods chosen to attempt to help the economy. It seems we can only advocate fiscal conservatism inside our own checkbooks.Nobody else has the patience to even listen.

Yep.
I had an e-mail exchange with my brother-in-law last week, on this very topic. Where is the sanity? We were groping for a sane conservative politician we could support - and found no one.

86 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 7:59:56pm

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

Not Newt, not after his toxic race-spew. I'll wait and see who looks good in the primary and support that person. It's too soon to know what I'll be doing in 2012.

Easier question then.

Which candidates if they were running would make you want to rather vote for Obama instead?


If it was Romney for example....

87 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:00:03pm

re: #81 jamesfirecat

///Yeah we sure saw a lot of that under Clinton when the Republicans held control of the congress.

Point taken.

88 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:00:21pm

re: #69 Max D. Reinhardt

Not often enough, you mean.

89 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:00:33pm

re: #78 Rightwingconspirator

We sensible conservatives sometimes have to find out own way. Particularly the fiscal conservative who is quite unhappy with the methods chosen to attempt to help the economy. It seems we can only advocate fiscal conservatism inside our own checkbooks.Nobody else has the patience to even listen.

Including Republican politicians.

90 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:01:04pm

re: #73 Cato the Elder

So you make "taxes" the litmus test? Chortle. "Read my lips!"

Quinn has openly pushed for an increase in the state income tax. That blackballs a candidate in the eyes of me and my extended family. We'd all prefer budget-cutting and a candidate not in thrall to the Dem Machine.

91 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:01:04pm

Upding Frum. Too little, too late.

There's also a negative side....

92 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:01:08pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Easier question then.

Which candidates if they were running would make you want to rather vote for Obama instead?


If it was Romney for example...

Damaged goods now.

93 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:01:17pm

re: #74 reine.de.tout

The way I read it, he's not talking about genuine libel.

He's using the term the way conservatives think about charges of racism - it's untrue of us.

And he's saying, but look - what he sees coming from today's crop of conservatives is - actual racism.

Ah ok. I was starting to get that! I thought he was saying that liberals were the ones making racist statements.

94 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:01:32pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Easier question then.

Which candidates if they were running would make you want to rather vote for Obama instead?

If it was Romney for example...

MARCO RUBIO!!!
/trying to set thread on fire.

95 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:01:41pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Easier question then.

Which candidates if they were running would make you want to rather vote for Obama instead?

If it was Romney for example...

The only way I would vote for Obama is if Bloomberg runs*

* and don't hold me to that.

96 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:02:06pm
Conservatives object to the Obama administration as too expensive, too regulatory, too intrusive, too beholden to Democratic special interest groups, and too apologetic about America’s role in the world.

lulz. If this were even close to being true, there would be no complaints whatsoever about Obama from the so-called "Professional Left" :P

(In all honesty though, this is why I still can't have much respect for Frum - he takes one step forward by calling out the so-blatantly-horrid-a-slow-witted-5-year- old-could-see-it and then two steps back with lame, shallow "Fox News Lite" talking points accompanied by no factual backup to speak of (I mean, "too regulatory"?! Puh-lease! The financial reform bill isn't one 100th as regulatory as it needs to be to prevent another collapse. And "too intrusive"? Like something on the level of, say, the Oklahoma "let's re-rape rape victims with ultrasound instruments" law?)

re: #91 BigPapa

Too little, too late.

Definitely agree with this.

97 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:02:07pm

re: #48 calochortus

I'm afraid I left the Republicans several years ago over the torture issue. I was never a really good Republican and I'm now a not very good Democrat. I would be happy if the Repubs returned to sanity though.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
-- Will Rogers

Speaking as someone to the left of the party, I'd have to say that sums it up still.

Vote your conscience and you'll be there when they come back to you.

98 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:02:11pm

re: #14 Charles

Frum isn't quite getting it. He's still trying to cling to a party that's rejecting him.

Seriously. They've branded him a RINO and will dismiss anything he says out of hand.

99 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:02:16pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Easier question then.

Which candidates if they were running would make you want to rather vote for Obama instead?

If it was Romney for example...

I'd vote for Romney, but not Gingrich or Palin.

100 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:02:28pm

re: #95 brookly red

The only way I would vote for Obama is if Bloomberg runs*

* and don't hold me to that.

Christie from NJ.

101 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:02:29pm

re: #95 brookly red

The only way I would vote for Obama is if Bloomberg runs*

* and don't hold me to that.

So would Sister Sarah at least drive you to stay home rather than vote at all?

102 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:02:52pm

re: #92 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damaged goods now.


Damn then who is left to call a sane republican?

103 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03:09pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

When Obama's candidacy was first mooted, I thought it might be a loser because America was still too racist. Although he won, I was right.

Huh? You can't have been right that Obama couldn't win because America is too racist, when in fact he did win.

He'll win again, for that matter, though by a much smaller margin. The Republicans are adrift and have a massive house cleaning and rethinking ahead before they can swing anything more than frustration votes from independents, designed to put the brakes on runaway Democrat spending and entitlement programs.

It will be quite some time before the voters entrust any more power than this to Republicans, and it will be a considerably different Republican party than today's when that does happen.

Frum is working toward that day. Good for him.

104 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03:12pm

re: #101 jamesfirecat

So would Sister Sarah at least drive you to stay home rather than vote at all?

let me think...

no

105 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03:23pm

re: #78 Rightwingconspirator

We sensible conservatives sometimes have to find out own way. Particularly the fiscal conservative who is quite unhappy with the methods chosen to attempt to help the economy. It seems we can only advocate fiscal conservatism inside our own checkbooks.Nobody else has the patience to even listen.

It's pretty bleak in the political zone.
Especially in California.
They can talk it, but so far, are unable to execute their talk.
See: Arnold....

106 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03:34pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Easier question then.

Which candidates if they were running would make you want to rather vote for Obama instead?

If it was Romney for example...

For me, it would be Palin or Huckabee. If either are on the GOP ticket I'll vote for Barack Obama.

107 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03:43pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Quinn has openly pushed for an increase in the state income tax. That blackballs a candidate in the eyes of me and my extended family. We'd all prefer budget-cutting and a candidate not in thrall to the Dem Machine.

What is this Dem Machine you keep speaking about and how is it different than the Rep Machine?

Oh, I almost forgot, which one has the flame thrower?

108 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03:52pm

re: #80 brookly red

some say that God helps those that help them selves...

So that is how the rich get richer. "Help yo'selves!" And boy do they ever...

109 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03:58pm

re: #102 jamesfirecat

Damn then who is left to call a sane republican?

Well... thank god it's probably not going to be YOUR DESCRIPTION of a sane conservative that is going to be used to pick a possible candidate... so bug out of the question.

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03:59pm

Plumbing lizards: is there any way an apartment in an apartment complex can have a 'leak' that would lead to an enormous increase in the building water bill? My manager is going into each apartment tomorrow to inspect our faucets and toilets. Does this make any sense?

111 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:04:03pm

re: #102 jamesfirecat

Damn then who is left to call a sane republican?

No one.
My brother-in-law (in Texas) and I were trying to figure this out one day last week. And came up with not one name.

112 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:04:07pm

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

I'd vote for Romney, but not Gingrich or Palin.

I'd have voted for him in 08, but he's sat on the side lines while the Tea Party has moved in and has not been vocal enough a detractor. He's no leader.

113 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:04:47pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, a slow drip, or a not well sealed seal in the toilet tank can do LOTS of water leakage.

114 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:04:47pm

re: #89 Walter L. Newton

Most particularly. Remember California conservatives are a different breed-Brought up on consenting adults, a Democratically controlled legislature, and expanding social safety nets, regardless of revenues or projections.

115 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:04:56pm

re: #106 Max D. Reinhardt

For me, it would be Palin or Huckabee. If either are on the GOP ticket I'll vote for Barack Obama.

I have said it here a hundred times, the GOP will run someone we have never heard of at this point...

116 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:05:30pm

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

I'd vote for Romney, but not Gingrich or Palin.

Romney has no principles. The only thing that man believes in is getting elected. I have not seen him stand strong, with conservative solutions, on one issue.

117 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:05:36pm

re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar

Christie from NJ.

My mom is a registered Democrat in NJ. She's voted for Dems for years. They really fucked up NJ lately and now she just loves what Christie is doing.

118 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:05:39pm

re: #115 brookly red

I have said it here a hundred times, the GOP will run someone we have never heard of at this point...

Or, will run no one, that a sane Republican can vote for.
See: Sarah Palin

119 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:06:05pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Plumbing lizards: is there any way an apartment in an apartment complex can have a 'leak' that would lead to an enormous increase in the building water bill? My manager is going into each apartment tomorrow to inspect our faucets and toilets. Does this make any sense?

The leak might be in the underground water lines to the apartment, not in an apartment. I guess it could also be in an apartment.
Either way, it seems to me it would have been obvious - water collecting on the ground or sidewalk or something. The manager needs to call the water company to check it out.

120 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:06:21pm

re: #115 brookly red

I have said it here a hundred times, the GOP will run someone we have never heard of at this point...

I pray like hell that they do, because they've got a really crappy crop right now.

121 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:06:22pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Plumbing lizards: is there any way an apartment in an apartment complex can have a 'leak' that would lead to an enormous increase in the building water bill? My manager is going into each apartment tomorrow to inspect our faucets and toilets. Does this make any sense?

you are about to get hosed... no pun intended.

122 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:06:28pm

re: #69 Max D. Reinhardt

Remember when the Dems took Congress in 2006? Right wingers thought that the Dems were going to go nuts with Bush/Cheney impeachment hearings, obstruction of troop funds, etc. With the exception of loony Kucinich, the Democrats broke away from the whole "Bush is a traitor" moniker.

All too often, the responsibilities of office moderate American politicians.

Boehner threw the first volley of same. Cantor walked back.

We'll see.

123 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:06:30pm

re: #97 wlewisiii


Vote your conscience and you'll be there when they come back to you.

I always do vote my conscience, and my registration really doesn't make a big difference in how I vote in the general election.

124 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:07:10pm

re: #117 NJDhockeyfan

My mom is a registered Democrat in NJ. She's voted for Dems for years. They really fucked up NJ lately and now she just loves what Christie is doing.

Christie/Rubio 2012. Get the Northern and Southern vote.

125 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:07:16pm

re: #115 brookly red

I have said it here a hundred times, the GOP will run someone we have never heard of at this point...

They may run someone but the crazy tea partiers who seem to be so vocal may make sure they never get past the primaries...

126 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:07:20pm

re: #102 jamesfirecat

Damn then who is left to call a sane republican?

At the upper level, Christie of NJ, and Ryan of MA, for starters. Much of the old guard, but they're too up in years to be presidential contenders (though Bob Dole proved you could be a candidate without being a contender). Then there's the lesser-knowns. I don't know them either, but there have to be any number of moderate, sensible ones mixed in with the loonies. Eventually some of them will rise to national notice.

127 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:07:54pm

re: #105 Floral Giraffe

And speaking of California, does anyone have an idea who would be a better governor-Whitman or Brown? I think its one of the worst choices we've ever had.

128 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:08:07pm

re: #118 Floral Giraffe

Or, will run no one, that a sane Republican can vote for.
See: Sarah Palin

think of the bullfighter who distracts the bull with a flashy cape so the stupid beast never sees the sword.

129 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:08:17pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Plumbing lizards: is there any way an apartment in an apartment complex can have a 'leak' that would lead to an enormous increase in the building water bill? My manager is going into each apartment tomorrow to inspect our faucets and toilets. Does this make any sense?

Two places for a possible leak - the basement and the Manager's head.

Actually it could be in the feed lines to the building.

130 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:08:17pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Plumbing lizards: is there any way an apartment in an apartment complex can have a 'leak' that would lead to an enormous increase in the building water bill? My manager is going into each apartment tomorrow to inspect our faucets and toilets. Does this make any sense?

Absolutely. If the there is a leak in a feed line and the ground below is porous/rocky, the water can escape without detection. They better get on that.

Also, toilets with bad valves can continuously feed into a tank, the water would perpetually run out without the toilet overflowing.

There's all kinds of things that it could be.

131 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:08:21pm

Speaking of people branded as RINOs, Charlie Crist is getting ready to make a bunch of wingnut heads go 'splodey:


Exclusive: Florida Governor Charlie Crist prepared to endorse broad swath of gay rights

Charlie Crist, the current governor of Florida and Independent candidate for US Senate, is prepared to issue a ringing endorsement of gay rights in a document slated to be released as early as this week, according to a copy of a position paper provided in advance Sunday to RawStory.com.

Crist, who was elected governor as a Republican, left the GOP after it became clear he could not win his party’s nomination for Senate.

The document provided to RawStory.com includes Crist's vocal support for gay couples, including hospital visitation, inheritance and adoption rights; opposition to the ban on gays serving in the military; support for anti-discrimination laws and appropriations for HIV and AIDS programs.

132 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:08:24pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Plumbing lizards: is there any way an apartment in an apartment complex can have a 'leak' that would lead to an enormous increase in the building water bill? My manager is going into each apartment tomorrow to inspect our faucets and toilets. Does this make any sense?

What if the toilet ran continuously? That would do the trick, wouldn't it?

133 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:08:38pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

No one.
My brother-in-law (in Texas) and I were trying to figure this out one day last week. And came up with not one name.

Is there sane politician in any party?

134 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:09:11pm

re: #85 reine.de.tout

Yep.
I had an e-mail exchange with my brother-in-law last week, on this very topic. Where is the sanity? We were groping for a sane conservative politician we could support - and found no one.

I keep saying, that brave politician who will go against the flow of insanity, LOUD and PROUD will win. They are all just too chicken shit.

135 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:09:27pm

re: #107 b_sharp

What is this Dem Machine you keep speaking about and how is it different than the Rep Machine?

Oh, I almost forgot, which one has the flame thrower?

There has long been a Democratic Machine in place in Chicago. Rod Blagojevich is a product of that machine and under his governorship the machine spread to the state level. Pat is not product of that machine, but he is in thrall to it. Bill Brady will fight it. He was not my choice of nominee, but the northern Illinois GOP primary vote split three ways, leaving him the winner. And he's still better than Quinn.

136 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:09:38pm

re: #131 Lidane

I hated Crist before this happened.

137 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:09:49pm

The fact is, even if the government were only held responsible for the things "conservatives" hold sacred, taxes will still have to go up.

138 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:10:02pm

re: #118 Floral Giraffe

Or Newt.

139 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:10:07pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

No one.
My brother-in-law (in Texas) and I were trying to figure this out one day last week. And came up with not one name.

Jeb Bush? Chris Christie?

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:10:23pm

re: #113 Floral Giraffe

Yes, a slow drip, or a not well sealed seal in the toilet tank can do LOTS of water leakage.

Well, at least there's that. I have to clean the kitchen and living room tonight. At least they may actually find something.

141 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:10:28pm

re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar

Christie/Rubio 2012. Get the Northern and Southern vote.

That's a ticket I could actually support.

142 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:10:36pm

re: #133 NJDhockeyfan

Is there sane politician in any party?

Why don't you consider Barack Obama sane?

143 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:10:40pm

re: #139 Max D. Reinhardt

Jeb Bush? Chris Christie?

Jeb already said he won't run.

144 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:11:28pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

No one.
My brother-in-law (in Texas) and I were trying to figure this out one day last week. And came up with not one name.

I can't come up with a single name either.

145 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:11:43pm

re: #139 Max D. Reinhardt

Jeb Bush? Chris Christie?

Jeb Bush isn't interested.
Not sure yet about Christie.

146 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:11:51pm

re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar

Christie/Rubio 2012. Get the Northern and Southern vote.

Not if I can help it!

147 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:11:59pm

re: #134 Stanley Sea

LOUD and PROUD will win. They are all just too chicken shit.

The recipe for LOUD AND PROUD so far has been to deny AGW, gay rights, hate muslims, and GetBarak. Plus a few dog whistles here and there.

Sane GOP members, if there are any, need to come out of the closet and now.

148 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:12:33pm

re: #142 jamesfirecat

Why don't you consider Barack Obama sane?

Because he allowed the last combat brigade to leave Iraq (sort of) when the Iraqis hadn't formed a government.

149 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:12:46pm

re: #146 marjoriemoon

Not if I can help it!

YOU CAN'T STOP US!!!
/

150 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:12:53pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

That's a ticket I could actually support.

Isn't Rubio crazy as all get out?

As in he's a creationist who compares people who teach evolution to Cuban communists?

It'd be McCain Palin all over again... just because they're only the VP doesn't make it right!

At least Cheney was intelligent if he was evil!

151 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:13:03pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

It could be. One steady undetected leak is all it takes.

152 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:13:16pm

re: #131 Lidane

Speaking of people branded as RINOs, Charlie Crist is getting ready to make a bunch of wingnut heads go 'splodey:


Exclusive: Florida Governor Charlie Crist prepared to endorse broad swath of gay rights

I can get behind all that. I have already. The GOP should not get in the way of reforms that pose no imaginable threat to the basic social contract. Marriage is another question. We conservatives are likely to lose that issue in the end, but there's still the question of how extensive a liberalization of marriage law will take place, and the maybe even more important question of whether it's done through legislation or through court reinterpretation of the meaning of long established law.

153 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:13:19pm

re: #145 reine.de.tout

Jeb Bush isn't interested.
Not sure yet about Christie.

I don't know if Christie would run this time. Do you think he's ready so soon?

154 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:13:56pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

I don't know. Christie doesn't seem very presidential too me (not that I have a prejudice against fat people).

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:13:57pm

re: #127 calochortus

And speaking of California, does anyone have an idea who would be a better governor-Whitman or Brown? I think its one of the worst choices we've ever had.

Well, I'm a party girl, so I'm voting Brown. Has to be good looking 'cause he's so hard to see...

156 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:14:06pm

re: #153 NJDhockeyfan

I don't know if Christie would run this time. Do you think he's ready so soon?

No. He should be a Senator for 18 months.

157 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:14:09pm

re: #148 Max D. Reinhardt

Because he allowed the last combat brigade to leave Iraq (sort of) when the Iraqis hadn't formed a government.

How about Al Franken?

158 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:14:12pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Plumbing lizards: is there any way an apartment in an apartment complex can have a 'leak' that would lead to an enormous increase in the building water bill? My manager is going into each apartment tomorrow to inspect our faucets and toilets. Does this make any sense?

Missed this. Is there landscaping with auto sprinklers? #1 place if so.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:14:28pm

re: #128 brookly red

think of the bullfighter who distracts the bull with a flashy cape so the stupid beast never sees the sword.

I think you may be overestimating the matador's level of planning at this point.

160 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:14:36pm

re: #131 Lidane

Speaking of people branded as RINOs, Charlie Crist is getting ready to make a bunch of wingnut heads go 'splodey:


Exclusive: Florida Governor Charlie Crist prepared to endorse broad swath of gay rights

As governor, he's pro-gay adoption. He came out in favor of lifting the ban on gay adoption.

[Link: www.sunshinestatenews.com...]

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:15:01pm

re: #129 b_sharp

Two places for a possible leak - the basement and the Manager's head.

Actually it could be in the feed lines to the building.

These folks drive me nuts. They never give written notice of anything, they just call me at the last screaming minute.

162 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:15:09pm

re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar

Faugh.

163 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:15:16pm

re: #115 brookly red

I have said it here a hundred times, the GOP will run someone we have never heard of at this point...

Good luck! Obama made a big splash with Democrats in 2004. Who are you thinking of that we don't know about?

164 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:15:50pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you may be overestimating the matador's level of planning at this point.

no I think you underestimate & please keep doing so :)

165 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:15:53pm

re: #156 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. He should be a Senator for 18 months.

LOL

166 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:16:02pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I'm a party girl, so I'm voting Brown. Has to be good looking 'cause he's so hard to see...

I don't trust Whitman.

167 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:16:03pm

re: #149 Cannadian Club Akbar

YOU CAN'T STOP US!!!
/

You just watch, baby.

168 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:16:03pm

re: #162 Cato the Elder

Faugh.

It is a strategic move Cato.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:16:28pm

re: #139 Max D. Reinhardt

Jeb Bush? Chris Christie?

Jeb is starting to look better every year, but I wonder if little brother has burned voters out on the Bush family.

170 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:16:36pm

re: #150 jamesfirecat

Rubio's creationism aside, he was brave enough to mention Social Security reform (not privatization; he advocates progressive indexing) while he's running in a state filled with elderly voters.

That shows audacity and commitment, in my humble opinion.

171 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:16:39pm

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

Jeb already said he won't run.

Yeah, like what we need is another fucking crime-family dynast.

172 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:16:45pm

re: #150 jamesfirecat

Isn't Rubio crazy as all get out?

As in he's a creationist who compares people who teach evolution to Cuban communists?

It'd be McCain Palin all over again... just because they're only the VP doesn't make it right!

At least Cheney was intelligent if he was evil!

Conservatives like him. I think all Republicans are nutz so you can't go by me!

173 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:17:03pm

re: #153 NJDhockeyfan

I don't know if Christie would run this time. Do you think he's ready so soon?

Hard to tell right now.
Clinton came out of nowhere, it seems, but he was charming and affable and people took to him. I don't know enough about Chris Christie to know if he would have that sort of draw.

174 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:17:22pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Jeb is starting to look better every year, but I wonder if little brother has burned voters out on the Bush family.

This.

175 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:17:46pm

re: #170 Max D. Reinhardt

His ads are also very well done.

176 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:17:46pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Jeb is starting to look better every year, but I wonder if little brother has burned voters out on the Bush family.

Not for me. I'd vote for Jeb Bush in a heartbeat.

177 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:17:48pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I'm a party girl, so I'm voting Brown. Has to be good looking 'cause he's so hard to see...

LOL, but he didn't exactly cover himself with glory his first time around. On the other hand, we're still dealing with an 'outsider' governor and Whitman has absolutely no political experience. If she thinks being governor is anything like being a CEO, that concept alone disqualifies her.

178 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:17:57pm

re: #148 Max D. Reinhardt

Because he allowed the last combat brigade to leave Iraq (sort of) when the Iraqis hadn't formed a government.

A lot of troops over there are not very happy with Obama right now.

179 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:18:08pm

re: #137 Cato the Elder

The fact is, even if the government were only held responsible for the things "conservatives" hold sacred, taxes will still have to go up.

Putting the wars on the books. HELLO?

180 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:18:27pm

re: #176 Max D. Reinhardt

Not for me. I'd vote for Jeb Bush in a heartbeat.

Me too.

181 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:19:02pm

re: #154 Max D. Reinhardt

I don't know. Christie doesn't seem very presidential too me (not that I have a prejudice against fat people).

He isn't. He's putting all of his effort into fixing New Jersey's budget mess, and isn't concerned with his political career beyond that. I don't think he'll run.

182 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:19:16pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Jeb is starting to look better every year, but I wonder if little brother has burned voters out on the Bush family.

Egads. no! Jeb was miserable. And it will be a very long time before another Bush takes office.

183 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:19:21pm

re: #176 Max D. Reinhardt

Not for me. I'd vote for Jeb Bush in a heartbeat.

It is a shame but the next Presidential election will not be about voting for someone, it will be about voting against someone.

184 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:19:47pm

re: #147 BigPapa

The recipe for LOUD AND PROUD so far has been to deny AGW, gay rights, hate muslims, and GetBarak. Plus a few dog whistles here and there.

Sane GOP members, if there are any, need to come out of the closet and now.

Point. Match?

185 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:19:48pm

re: #157 jamesfirecat

How about Al Franken?

Single payer health care advocate. Crazy.

186 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:19:53pm

re: #173 reine.de.tout

Hard to tell right now.
Clinton came out of nowhere, it seems, but he was charming and affable and people took to him. I don't know enough about Chris Christie to know if he would have that sort of draw.

He's impressed the folks in NJ right now and NJ is not a red state either.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:20:11pm

re: #158 Stanley Sea

Missed this. Is there landscaping with auto sprinklers? #1 place if so.

They've been doing work on a plumbing line out front...I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

188 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:20:15pm

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

A lot of troops over there are not very happy with Obama right now.

Prove this statement. Not from a winger blog either.

189 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:20:17pm

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

A lot of troops over there are not very happy with Obama right now.

well don't worry they have seen to it their votes won't be counted.

190 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:20:17pm

re: #170 Max D. Reinhardt

Rubio's creationism aside, he was brave enough to mention Social Security reform (not privatization; he advocates progressive indexing) while he's running in a state filled with elderly voters.

That shows audacity and commitment, in my humble opinion.

Audacity and commitment are not the same thing as intelligence and forethought.

Any idiot can be audacious and committed how well did it work out for John Bell Hood?

191 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:20:28pm

re: #183 brookly red

It is a shame but the next Presidential election will not be about voting for someone, it will be about voting against someone.

Just like 04.

192 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:20:55pm

The chances that I will ever again vote GOP asymptotically approach closer to zero every day.

193 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:21:23pm

re: #191 Max D. Reinhardt

Just like 04.

Thank you, Ohio!!!
/

194 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:21:44pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Jeb is starting to look better every year, but I wonder if little brother has burned voters out on the Bush family.

We can only pray.

195 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:21:44pm

re: #154 Max D. Reinhardt

I don't know. Christie doesn't seem very presidential too me (not that I have a prejudice against fat people).

If he ran, and named Palin as VP, it's another terror scare. I'm just putting it out there!

196 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:21:46pm

re: #170 Max D. Reinhardt

Rubio's creationism aside, he was brave enough to mention Social Security reform (not privatization; he advocates progressive indexing) while he's running in a state filled with elderly voters.

That shows audacity and commitment, in my humble opinion.

What is progressive indexing?

197 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:21:48pm

Gah. I was on the phone with McAfee tech support for two fricken hours. The first tech uninstalled my firewall and then suddenly refused to go any further because I had "Enterprise" version installed and she only did "Home."

Got another tech from the "Enterprise" side and finally reinstalled the product.

The good news, there was no virus, so no charge.

198 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:21:58pm

re: #185 Max D. Reinhardt

Single payer health care advocate. Crazy.

What's crazy about single payer?

Isn't that how they do it in the UK where people on average live longer and pay less?

199 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:21:59pm

Flipping through cable news (bad habit, I know) and I had to shut it off. Bill O'Reilly is spouting anti-mosque talking points with his nodding panel and Rachel Maddow is in full-throttle anti-Bush tax cuts mode.

I can't stand either.

200 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:22:08pm

re: #192 Cato the Elder

Upding for using asymptotically in a sentence.

201 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:22:40pm

re: #189 brookly red

well don't worry they have seen to it their votes won't be counted.

///Yes I'm sure ACORN will be all over it...

202 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:22:47pm

re: #190 jamesfirecat

Audacity and commitment are not the same thing as intelligence and forethought.

Any idiot can be audacious and committed how well did it work out for John Bell Hood?

Upding for the historical comparison, JFC. Hood was a brave man and an excellent division commander, but he was an utter failure as an army commander.

203 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:22:50pm

re: #173 reine.de.tout

Except he didn't come out of nowhere. Clinton was the keynote speaker at the 1988 DNC, the same way that Obama was the keynote in 2004.

204 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:23:16pm

re: #199 Max D. Reinhardt

Flipping through cable news (bad habit, I know) and I had to shut it off. Bill O'Reilly is spouting anti-mosque talking points with his nodding panel and Rachel Maddow is in full-throttle anti-Bush tax cuts mode.

I can't stand either.

They all suck. You do know there is football on, right?

205 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:23:35pm

re: #196 marjoriemoon

What is progressive indexing?

It's like alphabetization, but all the letters get a chance to be "first".

206 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:23:35pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

So am I, Charles. He's hanging in despite the abuse, waiting for a time when he'll again be listened to. I hope that day comes soon.

I have to agree with others here. The GOP doesn't deserve you. Let them go for now. I had to.

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:23:39pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don't trust Whitman.

The only thing I feel really sure about is that she really wants to be governor.

208 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:23:58pm

re: #160 marjoriemoon

As governor, he's pro-gay adoption. He came out in favor of lifting the ban on gay adoption.

[Link: www.sunshinestatenews.com...]

Which is of course the humane, simplest thing to stand for. And he's vilified for that?

gah Go Florida!

209 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:24:49pm

re: #188 Stanley Sea

Prove this statement. Not from a winger blog either.

Aw Jesus Christ. You really think they don't have a problem with him for doing that?

Here's what al-Reuters is posting today...

Iraq combat over but U.S. troops still in danger

U.S. Staff Sergeant Kendrick Manuel swung his rifle over his shoulder and grumbled about being viewed as a "non-combat" soldier in Iraq.

"When NBC talked about the last combat troops are gone, they made it sound like everything is basically over," he said, after escorting a 19-truck convoy through a part of northern Iraq where roadside bombs and mortar attacks are still a danger.

"To us it was like a slap in the face, because we are still here ... we are still going in harm's way every time we leave out of the gate," Manuel said at a U.S. military base, Camp Speicher, near Saddam Hussein's home town of Tikrit.

On August 31, the U.S. military formally declared an end to its combat mission in Iraq, 7-1/2 years after the invasion that removed Saddam and led to sectarian warfare and a fierce insurgency in which tens of thousands of Iraqis were killed. More than 4,400 U.S. soldiers have been killed since 2003.

U.S. networks such as NBC showed what the U.S. military labeled the last combat brigade rumbling into Kuwait. Soldiers whooped and shouted on camera that the war was over.

Yet, there are still six brigades made up of 50,000 troops in Iraq, ahead of a full withdrawal at the end of 2011. Their focus is to assist and advise their Iraqi counterparts, not lead the fight against insurgents, but they remain heavily armed and face frequent threats.

On September 7, two U.S. soldiers were killed and nine wounded when an Iraqi soldier opened fire on them at an Iraqi commando base.

The hype around the change of mission, which allowed President Barack Obama to say he was fulfilling a pledge to start ending the unpopular war, set off complaints among some soldiers left behind who were no longer viewed as combat troops.

U.S. military convoys are still shot at and bombed, and bases are mortared, despite a change in the name of the U.S. mission from Operation Iraqi Freedom to Operation New Dawn.

"That doesn't really change a thing, it is still dangerous," said 22-year-old Specialist Byron Reed, on his second deployment in Iraq, as he prepared to escort a convoy to Camp Speicher from Balad air base in Salahuddin province.

Manuel said changing the mission's name meant little if any of his soldiers were to be killed by a roadside bomb.

"If a life is gone, it is gone," he said. "As long as we are going in harm's way, it (the war) is not over for us."

210 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:24:54pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

Upding for the historical comparison, JFC. Hood was a brave man and an excellent division commander, but he was an utter failure as an army commander.

Thanks, sadly I only know of him because I read harry Turtledove, who I only got into reading because I read Guns of the South, which I only read because it had a picture of Robert E. Lee holding an AK-47 on the cover....

(Though I was marginally interested in the civil war before that, just never stuff that happened off to the west...)

211 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:24:56pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

The only thing I feel really sure about is that she really wants to be governor.

Yes, but WHY?
It's not like it's a good job, or she needs a job, or she needs the money...

212 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:25:11pm

re: #203 Lidane

Except he didn't come out of nowhere. Clinton was the keynote speaker at the 1988 DNC, the same way that Obama was the keynote in 2004.

Well, yes.
But I wasn't paying attention to the Dem 1988 convention (or the R one either, to tell the truth).

213 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:25:30pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

And she's stimulating the economy all by herself to achieve that goal.

214 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:25:40pm

re: #201 jamesfirecat

///Yes I'm sure ACORN will be all over it...

no that would be resistance to the move act...

[Link: romanticpoet.wordpress.com...]


jerky.

215 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:25:50pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don't trust Whitman.

If there will be an example of someone purchasing an office, this will be it. All media (lies - factcheck this weekend busted the ads I was currently watching)

216 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:25:52pm

re: #208 Stanley Sea

Which is of course the humane, simplest thing to stand for. And he's vilified for that?

gah Go Florida!

Indeed. I don't know who will win. I guess Rubio is the favorite, but he's going to have a fight. I'd be happy with Crist, because he has some liberal views. This is one. He's doesn't appear to be a religious sort, or if he is, he doesn't wear it on his sleeve.

217 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:26:10pm

re: #206 celticdragon

I have to agree with others here. The GOP doesn't deserve you. Let them go for now. I had to.

I can't. My state needs the GOP, so I'm still with them.

218 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:26:36pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

Upding for the historical comparison, JFC. Hood was a brave man and an excellent division commander, but he was an utter failure as an army commander.

They say that General Hood
did everything he could.,
But six brigades lat dead upon the field.
A dozen times we've run
up to the enemy guns
And all I know is all my friends are killed

All I know is all my friends are killed.

Chorus

And the fife and drums
are sure exciting to the young
We marched off to find our victory
Our banners flying high
underneath the Southern sky
We met our end at Franklin, Tennessee.

219 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:26:51pm

re: #216 marjoriemoon

Rubio will win.

220 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:27:09pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

The only thing I feel really sure about is that she really wants to be governor.

Glad to hear you're voting for Jerry. I think he's a cool guy, a visionary really. What are the complaints about him? I mean, other than he's a liberal.

221 sagehen  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:27:43pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Plumbing lizards: is there any way an apartment in an apartment complex can have a 'leak' that would lead to an enormous increase in the building water bill? My manager is going into each apartment tomorrow to inspect our faucets and toilets. Does this make any sense?

Maybe one of your neighbors started a hydroponics room.

222 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:27:49pm

re: #211 Floral Giraffe

Yes, but WHY?
It's not like it's a good job, or she needs a job, or she needs the money...

Presumably she thinks she can do a better job running CA than anyone else.

223 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:27:53pm

re: #204 Cannadian Club Akbar

They all suck. You do know there is football on, right?

I'm thinking maybe I'll get my reading done. I just downloaded Skippy Dies to my Kindle.

224 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:27:56pm

re: #182 marjoriemoon

Egads. no! Jeb was miserable. And it will be a very long time before another Bush takes office.

Ms Schiavo, RIP. That Bush ignored 5 different court determinations as to her final wishes. Inserting himself into a deeply personal family decision, why? For political gain?

225 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:28:21pm

re: #209 NJDhockeyfan

Aw Jesus Christ. You really think they don't have a problem with him for doing that?

Here's what al-Reuters is posting today...

Iraq combat over but U.S. troops still in danger

I think that falls under the "you can't handle the truth"

226 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:28:31pm

re: #220 marjoriemoon

Glad to hear you're voting for Jerry. I think he's a cool guy, a visionary really. What are the complaints about him? I mean, other than he's a liberal.

I think the best thing about him is that he is a liberal. Keeps him from being a conservative.

227 sagehen  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:29:17pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

No one.
My brother-in-law (in Texas) and I were trying to figure this out one day last week. And came up with not one name.

Jon Huntsman.

Unless the rest of the Republicans decide he's "tainted" by not spitting in Obama's face when offered the ambassadorship.

228 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:29:33pm

'Nite, all.

229 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:29:48pm

re: #212 reine.de.tout

Well, yes.
But I wasn't paying attention to the Dem 1988 convention (or the R one either, to tell the truth).

Nobody was paying attention to the Dems in 1988. They ran Dukakis, for crying out loud. About the only thing that came out of the 1988 election was Lloyd Bentsen hitting Quayle with the "You're no Jack Kennedy" line, Willie Horton ads, and the disastrous photos of Dukakis in a tank.

That was the last, desperate gasp of the traditional Democratic party. The DLC started to make a lot more inroads after that, paving the way for Clinton in '92.

230 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:29:54pm

re: #228 Decatur Deb

Good nite.

231 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:30:02pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

I think the best thing about him is that he is a liberal. Keeps him from being a conservative.

well unless he gets mugged or something :)

232 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:30:03pm

re: #227 sagehen

Jon Huntsman.

Unless the rest of the Republicans decide he's "tainted" by not spitting in Obama's face when offered the ambassadorship.

Forgot about him. Good call.

233 mich-again  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:30:08pm

re: #209 NJDhockeyfan

That story does make a good point. The troops that remain are still in danger. But everyone should already know that. I don't think anyone has tried to say otherwise, at least I haven't heard anyone.

234 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:30:23pm

re: #210 jamesfirecat

Thanks, sadly I only know of him because I read harry Turtledove, who I only got into reading because I read Guns of the South, which I only read because it had a picture of Robert E. Lee holding an AK-47 on the cover...

(Though I was marginally interested in the civil war before that, just never stuff that happened off to the west...)

Part of the reason Hood was successful commanding a division was that he served under the steady James Longstreet.

I liked "Guns of the South". Turtledove did a good job portraying the Army of Northern Virginia and its commander. Some disagree with his depiction of General Lee, but he admits in the afterword that he ignored the 'revisionist' image of Lee in is his writing. He based his view of Marse Robert off of Lee's letters and papers.

235 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:30:32pm

re: #224 prairiefire

Ms Schiavo, RIP. That Bush ignored 5 different court determinations as to her final wishes. Inserting himself into a deeply personal family decision, why? For political gain?

Ugh, one of many.

Mm, Florida. Just think somewhere in this state right now Jeb Bush is eating a live puppy. - Stewie Griffin -

236 Max  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:30:43pm

Good night. Don't let the wingnuts bite.

237 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:30:47pm

re: #214 brookly red

no that would be resistance to the move act...

[Link: romanticpoet.wordpress.com...]

jerky.

Hawaii, New York, Delaware, Alaska, Maryland, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Rhode Island, New Hampshire and Colorado

You know I'd be concerned except that Delaware and Colorado are the only states on that list that I can't instantly say will already be decided one way or another EASILY.

Oh wait I'm sorry Obama won by over 100,000 votes Delaware 255,459 152,374

But none the less I will be biting my nails about how Colerado's 9 electoral votes might flip because of this!

238 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:31:08pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

I think the best thing about him is that he is a liberal. Keeps him from being a conservative.

Works for me!

239 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:31:30pm

re: #209 NJDhockeyfan

Aw Jesus Christ. You really think they don't have a problem with him for doing that?

Here's what al-Reuters is posting today...

Iraq combat over but U.S. troops still in danger

re: #188 Stanley Sea

Prove this statement. Not from a winger blog either.

WHERE is this justifying your comment that the TROOPS (who refer to the CIC always) are against this? Yeah, the media, the commentariat is sounding the alarm, but you said the TROOPS. Gah, remember when it was blasphemy to say this shit? I don't get it.

Seriously, the Bad Republican problem as I see it is they are against the solidarity of America. And loudly.

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:31:45pm

re: #209 NJDhockeyfan

Aw Jesus Christ. You really think they don't have a problem with him for doing that?

Here's what al-Reuters is posting today...

Iraq combat over but U.S. troops still in danger

I'm not seeing actual political disagreement there, just a statement that they're not yet out of harm's way, which is entirely true.

241 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:32:07pm

I think there should be a law barring any direct progeny of any current or former officeholder from running for or occupying the same office.

Down with the American aristos!

242 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:32:19pm

re: #237 jamesfirecat

Hawaii, New York, Delaware, Alaska, Maryland, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Rhode Island, New Hampshire and Colorado

You know I'd be concerned except that Delaware and Colorado are the only states on that list that I can't instantly say will already be decided one way or another EASILY.

Oh wait I'm sorry Obama won by over 100,000 votes Delaware 255,459 152,374

But none the less I will be biting my nails about how Colerado's 9 electoral votes might flip because of this!

gee and here I thought you might be against it cause its wrong. my bad.

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:32:32pm

re: #213 calochortus

And she's stimulating the economy all by herself to achieve that goal.

First Republican since I don't know who to open a campaign office in East L.A.

244 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:32:55pm

re: #241 Cato the Elder

I think there should be a law barring any direct progeny of any current or former officeholder from running for or occupying the same office.

Down with the American aristos!

But then they would have to get jobs!

245 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:33:03pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

Part of the reason Hood was successful commanding a division was that he served under the steady James Longstreet.

I liked "Guns of the South". Turtledove did a good job portraying the Army of Northern Virginia and its commander. Some disagree with his depiction of General Lee, but he admits in the afterword that he ignored the 'revisionist' image of Lee in is his writing. He based his view of Marse Robert off of Lee's letters and papers.

I liked Guns of the South also, it's not often you see a time travel book NONE OF WHICH is told from the point of view of the time travelers....

246 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:33:36pm

re: #224 prairiefire

Ms Schiavo, RIP. That Bush ignored 5 different court determinations as to her final wishes. Inserting himself into a deeply personal family decision, why? For political gain?

Everyone forgets this part of Young Jeb's reign.

247 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:33:36pm

re: #227 sagehen

Jon Huntsman.

Unless the rest of the Republicans decide he's "tainted" by not spitting in Obama's face when offered the ambassadorship.

I'd love to see Huntsman run in 2016, and I might even be inclined to support him, but there are two problems I can see the wingnuts having with him-- he's a Mormon, and he's Obama's ambassador to China.

Never mind the fact that the guy is fluent in Mandarin, which is actually useful for an ambassador to China, and that he's young and charismatic. He accepted the job offer from the Seekrit Mooslim Overlord and isn't a "real" Christian, according to the evangelicals. He sadly doesn't stand much chance in the primaries, to my regret.

248 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:33:51pm

re: #245 jamesfirecat

I liked Guns of the South also, it's not often you see a time travel book NONE OF WHICH is told from the point of view of the time travelers...

I read it some time back. I didn't manage to read any of the follow up novels.

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:33:58pm

KC is laying the wood. Holy shit.

250 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:34:17pm

re: #218 celticdragon

They say that General Hood
did everything he could.,
But six brigades lat dead upon the field.
A dozen times we've run
up to the enemy guns
And all I know is all my friends are killed

All I know is all my friends are killed.

Chorus

And the fife and drums
are sure exciting to the young
We marched off to find our victory
Our banners flying high
underneath the Southern sky
We met our end at Franklin, Tennessee.

Brutal battle. One of my ancestors actually fought for the Union at Franklin. The Confederates charged entrenched Union troops and they died. Some the attacks had Confederates armed with muzzleloaders facing equal numbers of Union men armed with 7-shot Spencer repeating carbines. They had no chance, and still they charged.

251 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:34:53pm

re: #217 Dark_Falcon

I can't. My state needs the GOP, so I'm still with them.

I do understand. Being from Wisconsin, I see the machine down there & dislike it as much as anyone.

DF, I hope for an honorable conservative party to come along. For you and for the best interests of our nation because, as someone who is both a leftist and an army vet, I know our nation needs the dynamic tension of the right & left in balance. For most of our lives, that hasn't been the case much to our nation's grief, alas.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:35:08pm

re: #231 brookly red

well unless he gets mugged or something :)

Given that Jerry Brown is seventy-two years old, I am going to guess that he is pretty set in his liberalism.

I also have never known being mugged to change anyone's politics. A friend of mine was robbed at gunpoint and pistol-whipped, and remained a moonbat through the whole thing, albeit a somewhat bruised and pissed-off one.

253 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:35:41pm

re: #242 brookly red

gee and here I thought you might be against it cause its wrong. my bad.

Hey it f***ing sucks, but you know what, I live in Maryland so guess what my vote for Obama counted for nothing.

Absentee ballots only get counted if the differences between the states is great enough that they could turn the election, ergo in most of those states because they lean so clearly red or blue the ballots won't make a difference.

Besides the soliders are still allowed to request an absentee ballot right?

Outrageous outrage....

254 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:35:45pm

re: #246 Stanley Sea

Everyone forgets this part of Young Jeb's reign.

There was actually a standoff between state troopers sent by Jeb to forcibly insert the feeding tube and other officers sent by the court to enforce the court order.

I don't know of any other example like that in recent history.

255 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:36:14pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Brutal battle. One of my ancestors actually fought for the Union at Franklin. The Confederates charged entrenched Union troops and they died. Some the attacks had Confederates armed with muzzleloaders facing equal numbers of Union men armed with 7-shot Spencer repeating carbines. They had no chance, and still they charged.

which has says a lot about some peoples perception of reality :)

256 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:36:32pm

re: #241 Cato the Elder

I think there should be a law barring any direct progeny of any current or former officeholder from running for or occupying the same office.

Down with the American aristos!

Malia & Sasha have my vote though. After they complete Law School and a few years community organizing.

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:36:40pm

re: #241 Cato the Elder

I think there should be a law barring any direct progeny of any current or former officeholder from running for or occupying the same office.

Down with the American aristos!

You're suggesting that holding office should carry--what's the phrase--an attainder of blood? Is that what it's called?

258 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:36:41pm

re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar

KC is laying the wood. Holy shit.

I know, right? Everybody will fall in love all over again, only to have their hearts broken by November.

259 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:37:06pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Brutal battle. One of my ancestors actually fought for the Union at Franklin. The Confederates charged entrenched Union troops and they died. Some the attacks had Confederates armed with muzzleloaders facing equal numbers of Union men armed with 7-shot Spencer repeating carbines. They had no chance, and still they charged.

Poor sons of bitches...

Lions led by an ass as the saying goes... especially considering how horiffic the cause they were fighting for...

260 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:37:40pm

re: #253 jamesfirecat

Hey it f***ing sucks, but you know what, I live in Maryland so guess what my vote for Obama counted for nothing.

Absentee ballots only get counted if the differences between the states is great enough that they could turn the election, ergo in most of those states because they lean so clearly red or blue the ballots won't make a difference.

Besides the soliders are still allowed to request an absentee ballot right?

Outrageous outrage...

well if your first reaction had been it sucks it would have looked better but it is what it is.

261 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:37:48pm

re: #248 celticdragon

I read it some time back. I didn't manage to read any of the follow up novels.

None of the other alternate US-history books Turtledove has written are based on Guns of the South. It's a stand-alone.

262 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:37:48pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not seeing actual political disagreement there, just a statement that they're not yet out of harm's way, which is entirely true.

From the article:

The hype around the change of mission, which allowed President Barack Obama to say he was fulfilling a pledge to start ending the unpopular war, set off complaints among some soldiers left behind who were no longer viewed as combat troops.

So Obama says he's fulfilling a pledge to start ending the unpopular war to try to stop his poll numbers from dropping and the MSM is trying to help by reporting that the war is over. The troops that are still there don't see it that way. That's how I read it.

263 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:37:53pm

re: #258 prairiefire

I know, right? Everybody will fall in love all over again, only to have their hearts broken by November.

I'm a Bucs fan. My heart is already broke.:)

264 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:38:14pm

Today it puzzles me why anyone can say that any state needs the GOP.

Like saying you "need" emrods.

265 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:38:50pm

re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar

KC is laying the wood. Holy shit.

Phillip Rivers is Ryan Leaf reincarnated. Yes, I said it.

266 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:39:08pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Brutal battle. One of my ancestors actually fought for the Union at Franklin. The Confederates charged entrenched Union troops and they died. Some the attacks had Confederates armed with muzzleloaders facing equal numbers of Union men armed with 7-shot Spencer repeating carbines. They had no chance, and still they charged.

I wrote the above verses. The song is rather longish, so I am not going to put it all down tonight...but I was inspired to write it after hearing about the 'Gettysburg of The West' and the disastrous incompetence of Hood.

I borrowed heavily from themes such as taking shoes from dead friends and canister fire ripping apart the people next to you. It gets a bit grim.

267 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:39:11pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

None of the other alternate US-history books Turtledove has written are based on Guns of the South. It's a stand-alone.

Which is a shame, because there's doubtlessly a lot he could do it.

I also hope to see a follow to "After the Downfall" and maybe another "Darkness" book about the magical version of WW2....

268 mich-again  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:39:15pm

Football in the pouring rain on a Monday night. Nice.

269 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:39:35pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

My Confederate grandfather's last Civil War battle was the Battle of Pea Ridge in Arkansas. The Confederates lost. He his out in Montana for a time after that.

270 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:39:39pm

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

Given that Jerry Brown is seventy-two years old, I am going to guess that he is pretty set in his liberalism.

I also have never known being mugged to change anyone's politics. A friend of mine was robbed at gunpoint and pistol-whipped, and remained a moonbat through the whole thing, albeit a somewhat bruised and pissed-off one.

you missed the joke... ahem, "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged"... now do you get it?

271 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:39:47pm

re: #264 Cato the Elder

Today it puzzles me why anyone can say that any state needs the GOP.

Like saying you "need" emrods.

Evidently you're going to be puzzled right up to the trouncing the Democrats take on Nov. 2nd. Puzzle away.

272 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:40:01pm

re: #262 NJDhockeyfan

From the article:

So Obama says he's fulfilling a pledge to start ending the unpopular war to try to stop his poll numbers from dropping and the MSM is trying to help by reporting that the war is over. The troops that are still there don't see it that way. That's how I read it.

//Yeah if only he'd pulled a Nixon and gotten every single one of our boys and girls out of there....

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:40:30pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

Phillip Rivers is Ryan Leaf reincarnated. Yes, I said it.

SD had a choice between him and Drew Breese. They fucked up.

274 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:40:33pm

re: #260 brookly red

I have been taking walter fu lessons.

275 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:40:56pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

You're suggesting that holding office should carry--what's the phrase--an attainder of blood? Is that what it's called?

For a generation, yes.

276 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:41:01pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

Phillip Rivers is Ryan Leaf reincarnated. Yes, I said it.

I just had my hubby explain that to me. He says Rivers is at least better than Castle is.

277 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:41:13pm

I think Brown was and is a visionary. I also think his execution is often flawed.
I further think our next governor is doomed to fail and I don't know whom I rather see in that role. Who me? Cynical?

278 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:41:17pm

re: #266 celticdragon

I wrote the above verses. The song is rather longish, so I am not going to put it all down tonight...but I was inspired to write it after hearing about the 'Gettysburg of The West' and the disastrous incompetence of Hood.

I borrowed heavily from themes such as taking shoes from dead friends and canister fire ripping apart the people next to you. It gets a bit grim.

If you want something else you can have someone sowing their names onto the backs of their uniforms so they could be identified when they died... I hear the Union soldiers did that before one battle...

279 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:41:28pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

None of the other alternate US-history books Turtledove has written are based on Guns of the South. It's a stand-alone.

I thought he wrote another couple based on the independent South going with Germany in WW I and so forth. I know I saw them at book stores.

*shrug*

I'm tired. Beats me. :)

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:41:32pm

re: #272 jamesfirecat

//Yeah if only he'd pulled a Nixon and gotten every single one of our boys and girls out of there...

Um, who put troops there in the first place?

281 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:41:36pm

re: #264 Cato the Elder

Today it puzzles me why anyone can say that any state needs the GOP.

Like saying you "need" emrods.

It has to do with the fact that the Daley machine makes Tammany Hall look like virginal innocence? And we live in a two party nation? Sometimes you have to look for the "less bad" solution.

282 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:42:04pm

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

Um, who put troops there in the first place?

A Democrat.

283 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:42:43pm

re: #273 Cannadian Club Akbar

SD had a choice between him and Drew Breese. They fucked up.

Oh I know. I know. Purdue vs. ?

Rivers reminds me soo much of Leaf. Big ole lug.

Watch 59 Brandon Siler. He's the only reason I still care. (Gator)

284 mich-again  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:42:51pm

re: #264 Cato the Elder

Today it puzzles me why anyone can say that any state needs the GOP.

Like saying you "need" emrods.

I think the USA needs two functioning parties. Otherwise, the real election day becomes the primary, and those can be clusterbleeps.

285 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:42:52pm

re: #282 prairiefire

A Democrat.

But the greatest one Evah!! EVAAH!!!

286 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:43:13pm

re: #278 jamesfirecat

If you want something else you can have someone sowing their names onto the backs of their uniforms so they could be identified when they died... I hear the Union soldiers did that before one battle...

Yes, they did. One famous diary entry at Cold harbor (I think) says: "I was killed Today."

287 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:43:37pm

re: #266 celticdragon

I wrote the above verses. The song is rather longish, so I am not going to put it all down tonight...but I was inspired to write it after hearing about the 'Gettysburg of The West' and the disastrous incompetence of Hood.

I borrowed heavily from themes such as taking shoes from dead friends and canister fire ripping apart the people next to you. It gets a bit grim.

Great stuff. Please do send it to me if you get the chance. Nic is blue for this post.

288 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:44:05pm

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

Um, who put troops there in the first place?

Stephen Harper.

I know that's wrong, but I'm just a lonely Canuck listening to you Americans talk about politics and I feel all left out.

289 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:44:36pm

re: #279 celticdragon

I thought he wrote another couple based on the independent South going with Germany in WW I and so forth. I know I saw them at book stores.

*shrug*

I'm tired. Beats me. :)

He did they're just based off of his "How few remain" series known as Timeline 191 where the south wins the war because Lee's Special Orders 191 don't get found before Antietam.

In "Guns of the South" Lee has books about the future so its clear that he's going to shape the south into something much better than what it turns into in Timeline 191....

290 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:44:43pm

re: #288 b_sharp

Stephen Harper.

I know that's wrong, but I'm just a lonely Canuck listening to you Americans talk about politics and I feel all left out.

Want to talk about religion?

291 palomino  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:44:49pm

re: #69 Max D. Reinhardt

Remember when the Dems took Congress in 2006? Right wingers thought that the Dems were going to go nuts with Bush/Cheney impeachment hearings, obstruction of troop funds, etc. With the exception of loony Kucinich, the Democrats broke away from the whole "Bush is a traitor" moniker.

All too often, the responsibilities of office moderate American politicians.

I agree that being in office tends to have a moderating effect. Just look at Obama.

But I'm not sure the 2006 comparison is apt. There are some big differences. The 2010 gop victories will be largely animated by an off-the-rails populist movement, the tea parties. The 2006 Dems had no analogous (large) group of zealots, and their winners were moderates in swing districts/purple states--not freaks like Sharron Angle and Rand Paul and many of the other tea-backed gop candidates.

Furthermore the tea partiers, along with the far right candidates they've helped nominate, don't seem to take kindly to things like compromise...or science or rationality. They absolutely detest Obama--to the point they largely deny his very American-ness (see Gingrich, et al.) You think the gop be willing to work on a bipartisan basis with a president they see as singularly evil? So there's pretty much zero chance they'll be willing to work with Obama on anything. They're already salivating over the prospect of a govt. shutdown.

292 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:44:49pm

re: #284 mich-again

I think the USA needs two functioning parties. Otherwise, the real election day becomes the primary, and those can be clusterbleeps.

As we are seeing right now. Krauthammer came out against Palin's endorsement of the crazy lady in Delaware.

293 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:44:54pm

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

Um, who put troops there in the first place?

Bush.

294 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:45:10pm

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

Great stuff. Please do send it to me if you get the chance. Nic is blue for this post.

Will do. Do you want in public here or email? I do either tomorrow.

295 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:45:18pm

re: #293 jamesfirecat

Bush.

Oh sorry by "there" did you mean Vietnam?

296 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:45:22pm

re: #270 brookly red

you missed the joke... ahem, "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged"... now do you get it?

Yes, I got the joke. But I was quite serious. I know enough liberals who've been mugged that it doesn't make any sense to me. No one becomes a conservative as a result of being mugged. I mean, maybe someone has, but no one I know.

297 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:45:31pm

re: #288 b_sharp

Stephen Harper.

I know that's wrong, but I'm just a lonely Canuck listening to you Americans talk about politics and I feel all left out.

Why don't you people have mashed potatoes at KFC up there?
/hope this helps:)

298 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:45:39pm

re: #272 jamesfirecat

//Yeah if only he'd pulled a Nixon and gotten every single one of our boys and girls out of there...

He needs help like Nixon got...the Dems in the Senate need to stop all funding of the war there first.

299 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:45:46pm

re: #289 jamesfirecat

He did they're just based off of his "How few remain" series known as Timeline 191 where the south wins the war because Lee's Special Orders 191 don't get found before Antietam.

In "Guns of the South" Lee has books about the future so its clear that he's going to shape the south into something much better than what it turns into in Timeline 191...

Gotcha. Thanks. :)

300 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:45:51pm

re: #288 b_sharp

Where's McSpiff lately? (just thinking of you Canucks)

301 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:45:58pm

re: #279 celticdragon

I thought he wrote another couple based on the independent South going with Germany in WW I and so forth. I know I saw them at book stores.

*shrug*

I'm tired. Beats me. :)

He did. but they were based on an alternate history in which Lee's "Lost Order" of the 1862 Maryland campaign is not lost and the Army of Northern Virginia routs the Army of the Potomac in the battle that eventually results.

302 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:46:07pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

Want to talk about religion?

Sure.

303 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:46:16pm

re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist

Me, me. I've been mugged and robbed and I'm still a liberal.

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:46:26pm

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

Um, who put troops there in the first place?

Not Nixon. I'm reasonably sure of that.

305 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:46:36pm

re: #284 mich-again

I think the USA needs two functioning parties. Otherwise, the real election day becomes the primary, and those can be clusterbleeps.

well we have 2 parties, thieves & thieves the other thieves call racists... it's all up for grabs.

306 sagehen  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:46:40pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don't trust Whitman.

I gotta admit, it makes me wonder what she's hoping to get out of it that she'd spend $100 million of her own money to grab that job.

I initially wondered about Bloomberg for spending half as much, but got over it when I realized he's got more than $15 billion so it's a negligible percentage of his net worth. She's not in that league.

307 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:46:52pm

re: #302 b_sharp

Sure.

PLEASE DON'T GO THERE!!!

308 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:47:15pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Not Nixon. I'm reasonably sure of that.

Kennedy.

309 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:47:41pm

Yet here is racial animus, unconcealed and unapologetic, and it is seized by savvy editors and an ambitious politician as just the material to please a conservative audience

the sound of jackboots makes them feel bold

310 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:47:49pm

re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, I got the joke. But I was quite serious. I know enough liberals who've been mugged that it doesn't make any sense to me. No one becomes a conservative as a result of being mugged. I mean, maybe someone has, but no one I know.

I take it from the joke that a conservative is an angry, bitter, fearful liberal.

311 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:48:03pm

re: #297 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why don't you people have mashed potatoes at KFC up there?
/hope this helps:)

We do!

312 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:48:07pm

re: #294 celticdragon

Will do. Do you want in public here or email? I do either tomorrow.

Better to send it. Just favorite this post and send it. I may not be in tomorrow till late.

313 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:48:25pm

re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, I got the joke. But I was quite serious. I know enough liberals who've been mugged that it doesn't make any sense to me. No one becomes a conservative as a result of being mugged. I mean, maybe someone has, but no one I know.

no you missed it, fess up

314 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:48:28pm

re: #303 prairiefire

Me, me. I've been mugged and robbed and I'm still a liberal.

It's a really really old BS line the Republican's like to bring out. BS. Like that wolf kid.

315 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:48:45pm

re: #289 jamesfirecat

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

GMTA

316 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:48:53pm

re: #14 Charles

Frum isn't quite getting it. He's still trying to cling to a party that's rejecting him.

Sorta sad

habits die hard!

317 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:48:53pm

re: #300 Stanley Sea

Where's McSpiff lately? (just thinking of you Canucks)

I dunno. I'm quite fond of McSpiff - wish he'd show up.

318 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:48:56pm

re: #297 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why don't you people have mashed potatoes at KFC up there?
/hope this helps:)

We do.

And it tastes like processed potatoes.

Or maybe a potato like edible oil product.

319 calochortus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:49:02pm

re: #306 sagehen

She is a billionaire however, so she can afford the $100-$150 million.

Well, I'm out of here. Its been fun.

320 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:49:05pm

re: #305 brookly red

well we have 2 parties, thieves & thieves the other thieves call racists... it's all up for grabs.

Politics, theft and racism. All in one post.

321 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:49:06pm

re: #311 Jadespring

We do!

When did this happen? I got fries and gravy!! (which rules with vinegar, BTW)

322 sagehen  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:49:12pm

re: #182 marjoriemoon

Egads. no! Jeb was miserable. And it will be a very long time before another Bush takes office.

Georgie P?

323 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:49:27pm

re: #308 Cannadian Club Akbar

Kennedy.

In IRAQ?

I'm not following this conversation very well, am I?

324 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:49:56pm

re: #300 Stanley Sea

Where's McSpiff lately? (just thinking of you Canucks)

Probably swimming home through the flooded streets.

325 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:50:14pm

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

When did this happen? I got fries and gravy!! (which rules with vinegar, BTW)

Fries, malt vinegar, grated Romano cheese.

326 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:50:19pm

re: #270 brookly red

you missed the joke... ahem, "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged"... now do you get it?

I've been mugged.

Still a liberal!

So what happens if you're a gay guy who gets mugged, do you magically become someone who hates yourself because a guy pointed a blade at you and took your wallet?

I wish you knew how to read something other than bumper stickers

327 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:50:33pm

re: #313 brookly red

no you missed it, fess up

The phase is not even using the word "mugged" in the sense of being attacked or robbed... it's referring to the broader meaning of being "hit" with something so life changing that it makes you rethink much of your positions and ideology.

328 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:50:37pm

re: #315 Dark_Falcon

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

GMTA

Meh, more like two people giving the same answer to a question that did have one obvious answer.

I'd be like if we got asked who was Prime Minister of the UK and 1944 and we both said "Churchill...."

329 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:50:40pm

re: #320 Stanley Sea

Politics, theft and racism. All in one post.

multi-tasking, a quality most employers look for...

330 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:50:49pm

re: #323 SanFranciscoZionist

In IRAQ?

I'm not following this conversation very well, am I?

I was talking Viet Nam. I think wires got crossed. No biggie.

331 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:51:19pm

Anyone have the pleasure of deleting hundreds of "Here you have” virus emails lately? I deleted over 600 of them yesterday.

332 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:51:21pm

re: #325 prairiefire

Fries, malt vinegar, grated Romano cheese.

I loved you.

333 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:51:30pm

re: #319 calochortus

She is a billionaire however, so she can afford the $100-$150 million.

Well, I'm out of here. Its been fun.

Maybe if she wins, I'll learn to love E-Meg. I did soften up quite a bit on the Governator, who worked hard and really loves California.

I'd rather not have to go through the whole process again, though.

334 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:51:31pm

re: #326 WindUpBird

I've been mugged.

Still a liberal!

So what happens if you're a gay guy who gets mugged, do you magically become someone who hates yourself because a guy pointed a blade at you and took your wallet?

I wish you knew how to read something other than bumper stickers

Please see re: #327 Walter L. Newton

335 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:51:32pm

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

When did this happen? I got fries and gravy!! (which rules with vinegar, BTW)

I dunno. Last time I ate something from KFC was last year sometime. I had this bowl thingy with mashed potatoes, corn, pieces of chicken and gravy.

336 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:51:45pm

re: #332 Cannadian Club Akbar

I loved you.

LOVE!! Not loved!! PIMF!!

337 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:52:21pm

re: #318 b_sharp

We do.

And it tastes like processed potatoes.

Or maybe a potato like edible oil product.

Yeah I dunno what they put in them. They had a funny aftertaste.

338 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:52:51pm

re: #173 reine.de.tout

Hard to tell right now.
Clinton came out of nowhere, it seems, but he was charming and affable and people took to him. I don't know enough about Chris Christie to know if he would have that sort of draw.

Being governor is nowhere?

339 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:53:02pm

Weiner: The Gentleman is correct in sitting....


That's the way you do it.
340 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:53:12pm

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

He did. but they were based on an alternate history in which Lee's "Lost Order" of the 1862 Maryland campaign is not lost and the Army of Northern Virginia routs the Army of the Potomac in the battle that eventually results.

Antietam was still a bloodbath, lost orders or not. The corn field had incidents of triple canister being fired at point blank range. Entire regiments simply disintegrated.

341 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:53:36pm

re: #335 Jadespring

I dunno. Last time I ate something from KFC was last year sometime. I had this bowl thingy with mashed potatoes, corn, pieces of chicken and gravy.

ewww, sound like something I would step over on the subway platform...

342 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:53:41pm

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

Better to send it. Just favorite this post and send it. I may not be in tomorrow till late.

Will do :)

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:53:44pm

re: #335 Jadespring

I dunno. Last time I ate something from KFC was last year sometime. I had this bowl thingy with mashed potatoes, corn, pieces of chicken and gravy.

The KFC gravy is one of the last things I sort of screwed around with kashrut with.

Speaking of which, the new year has started, which, hopefully, means that my annual Elul desire to eat trayf will dissipate.

344 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:53:51pm

re: #332 Cannadian Club Akbar

It's over already.

345 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:53:54pm

re: #335 Jadespring

When I was in my mid 20's I found an all you can eat KFC. My room mate and I would smoke up and go. Was awesome.

346 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:54:32pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

Weiner: The Gentleman is correct in sitting...

[Video]
That's the way you do it.

Luuuuvveee him.

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:54:37pm

re: #345 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I was in my mid 20's I found an all you can eat KFC. My room mate and I would smoke up and go. Was awesome.

There's an all you can eat KFC? Good grief.

348 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:55:20pm

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

Please see re: #327 Walter L. Newton

That's silly, because that has worked the other way around with a bunch of people I know.

They were conservative in the early 2000s, they got "mugged" with the so-con right wing hate machine, they just shrugged, decided they didn't want to associated with people who wanted them dead, and started calling themselves moderates and voting for Democrats.

Remember all those so-called South Park Conservatives? Those guys aren't calling themselves conservatives anymore.

349 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:55:31pm

re: #345 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I was in my mid 20's I found an all you can eat KFC. My room mate and I would smoke up and go. Was awesome.

Gah. That makes me ill just thinking about it. Though I'm pretty sure that if I was stoned it would sound pretty awesome.... :D

350 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:55:39pm

I. Hate. Gentrification.

351 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:56:23pm

re: #345 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I was in my mid 20's I found an all you can eat KFC. My room mate and I would smoke up and go. Was awesome.

There is one in Charlottesville. I go there whenever I see the PETA kooks across the street protesting KFC.

352 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:56:46pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

Weiner: The Gentleman is correct in sitting...

That, autotuned

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

353 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:56:51pm

re: #350 Gus 802

I. Hate. Gentrification.

KFC. Fine dining at it's best....

354 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:56:52pm

re: #350 Gus 802

That had nothing to do with what you guys were talking about.

355 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:57:06pm

re: #345 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I was in my mid 20's I found an all you can eat KFC. My room mate and I would smoke up and go. Was awesome.

when you were in your 20's Co. Sanders severed you personally...

356 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:57:11pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

That's silly, because that has worked the other way around with a bunch of people I know.

They were conservative in the early 2000s, they got "mugged" with the so-con right wing hate machine, they just shrugged, decided they didn't want to associated with people who wanted them dead, and started calling themselves moderates and voting for Democrats.

Remember all those so-called South Park Conservatives? Those guys aren't calling themselves conservatives anymore.

WUB... I was only explaining the meaning behind the saying. It has nothing to do with literal mugging. That's the only point I was trying to make.

I wasn't trying to defend it or diminish it... was I?

357 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:57:26pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #349 Jadespring

I might start smoking again if I find a all you can eat Taco Bell.
///

358 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:57:44pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

That's silly, because that has worked the other way around with a bunch of people I know.

They were conservative in the early 2000s, they got "mugged" with the so-con right wing hate machine, they just shrugged, decided they didn't want to associated with people who wanted them dead, and started calling themselves moderates and voting for Democrats.

Remember all those so-called South Park Conservatives? Those guys aren't calling themselves conservatives anymore.

The South Park Conservative label was silly to begin with. Matt and Trey certainly weren't and aren't fond of liberals but they were never fond of modern conservatism either really.

359 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:57:44pm

YouTube Video Claims Here You Have Worm Targeted U.S.

A person claiming to be the hacker behind the "Here you have" worm posted a YouTube video Sept. 12 defending his or her actions.

In the YouTube video, The computer-altered voice speaking in the video, published by "iqziad," claims to belong to Iraq Resistance, a known hacker linked to both the attack last week and one in August. Iraq Resistance is a member of a cyber-jihadist group known as the Brigades of Tariq ibn Ziyad. Wikipedia describes Tariq ibn Ziyad as a Berber military commander who "led the conquest of Visigothic Hispania" in the eighth century.

The purported hacker stated that the United States does not "have the right to invade our people and steal the oil under the name of nuclear weapons" and objected to being called a terrorist.

"I can smash all of those infected, but I wouldn't … I hope all people understand that I'm not [a] negative person," the voice said.

In an analysis of the worm, SecureWorks Director of Malware Research Joe Stewart found the binary contains the term "iraq_resistance." In addition, the e-mails spammed out in the August attack had Iraq Resistance in the From field as well as the subject line, "Here you have."

At one point, the spam associated with the attack Sept. 9 accounted for 10 percent of all the e-mail traffic on the Web.

"According to the video, this worm has been created targeting mainly ... the United States, and it justifies it [with] two reasons: to commemorate the Sept. 11 attacks and to demand respect [for] Islam, referring to the Terry Jones incident last week, when he wanted to burn a Quran in public," blogged Luis Corrons, technical director of Panda Security's PandaLabs.

360 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:57:46pm

re: #350 Gus 802

I. Hate. Gentrification.

then move.

361 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:57:47pm

Good night gang. Sleepy.

362 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:57:53pm

re: #346 prairiefire

Luuuvveee him.

The Dems should take some lessons from him. A little more spine and passion could go a long way.

363 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:58:05pm

re: #360 brookly red

then move.

More like fight back.

364 jaunte  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:58:15pm

re: #350 Gus 802

How do you feel about about Bobbie Gentryfication?

365 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:58:45pm

re: #352 cliffster

That, autotuned

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

That's what reminded my of that clip.

366 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:10pm

re: #338 WindUpBird

Being governor is nowhere?

Not known across the country.
C'mon WUB - don't be so literal.

367 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:11pm

re: #303 prairiefire

Me, me. I've been mugged and robbed and I'm still a liberal.

I'm wondering what I could get mugged with that would make me change my opinions about art, about equal rights for everyone under the law, about people pitching in to create a society that works for all its services, about creating a health care system that distributes the load properly like the rest of the civilized world

Maybe people whose convictions change on a dime because of one event, maybe their convictions weren't that set in the first place?

368 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:13pm

I really think the Republicans won't go too far if they continue to focus on being social conservatives. The winning party in the years to come will be a party that is socially progressive but fiscally conservative. And I mean genuinely fiscal conservative. Not the crap the Republicans claim to be.

369 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:30pm

re: #350 Gus 802

I. Hate. Gentrification.

It loves you too!
///
*waves*

370 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:34pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

WUB... I was only explaining the meaning behind the saying. It has nothing to do with literal mugging. That's the only point I was trying to make.

I wasn't trying to defend it or diminish it... was I?

don't bother

371 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:42pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

That's silly, because that has worked the other way around with a bunch of people I know.

They were conservative in the early 2000s, they got "mugged" with the so-con right wing hate machine, they just shrugged, decided they didn't want to associated with people who wanted them dead, and started calling themselves moderates and voting for Democrats.

Remember all those so-called South Park Conservatives? Those guys aren't calling themselves conservatives anymore.

White-collar conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me.
They're hoping soon my kind will drop and die,
But I'm gonna wave my freak flag high

372 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:43pm

re: #364 jaunte

How do you feel about about Bobbie Gentryfication?

[Video]

Image: Bobbie+Gentry+Bobbie.jpg

!

373 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:44pm

re: #340 celticdragon

Antietam was still a bloodbath, lost orders or not. The corn field had incidents of triple canister being fired at point blank range. Entire regiments simply disintegrated.

True that. Writing about the battle, Robert Leckie found it fitting that those canister shots fired by Indiana gunners repulsed the troops of the Yankee-hating Daniel Harvey Hill, who had once written a math problem that began "At Buena Vista, two Indiana volunteers ran away from the battle." As an aside, its worth noting that Leckie's experience as a Marine served him in good stead writing about the ambush of the Union troops in the West Wood. His portrayal is so vivid because he himself had fought off ambushes in the Pacific. Before he wrote about it, he lived it.

374 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:59:59pm

re: #350 Gus 802

I. Hate. Gentrification.

There was a pro-gentrification rally in the Mission once.

It was a joke, but some of the rally members didn't realize that, and since then, the event has found its way into an indignant essay in an anthology called 'Colonize This!'.

You should be careful about jokes.

375 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:00:27pm

A commercial just came on my TV. Good news, I can train to be a chef. Prayers, answered.

376 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:00:38pm

re: #363 Gus 802

More like fight back.

owww this sound good... what you got in mind?

377 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:00:38pm

re: #350 Gus 802

I. Hate. Gentrification.

Why?

378 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:00:42pm

re: #338 WindUpBird

Being governor is nowhere?


And you must have missed my later clarification:

re: #212 reine.de.tout

Well, yes.
But I wasn't paying attention to the Dem 1988 convention (or the R one either, to tell the truth).

379 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:00:46pm

re: #369 Floral Giraffe

It loves you too!
///
*waves*

Howdy FG!

380 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:00:51pm

Train is performing in the pouring rain at half time, God Bless 'em.

381 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:01pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

WUB... I was only explaining the meaning behind the saying. It has nothing to do with literal mugging. That's the only point I was trying to make.

I wasn't trying to defend it or diminish it... was I?

I understand, I'm saying that the saying is nonsense, it's always been nonsense

So I'm trying to diminish it, as I like to diminish all bumper sticker catch phrases that brookly and cliffster and some others like to trot out as wisdom here

382 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:07pm

re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar

A commercial just came on my TV. Good news, I can train to be a chef. Prayers, answered.

I got offered job as an apprentice to a chef.

383 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:11pm

re: #370 brookly red

don't bother

Talk about dense.

384 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:12pm

re: #332 Cannadian Club Akbar

I loved you.

Oh. Stop that. You still love her/him.

385 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:17pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

That's silly, because that has worked the other way around with a bunch of people I know.

They were conservative in the early 2000s, they got "mugged" with the so-con right wing hate machine, they just shrugged, decided they didn't want to associated with people who wanted them dead, and started calling themselves moderates and voting for Democrats.

Remember all those so-called South Park Conservatives? Those guys aren't calling themselves conservatives anymore.

Hell to the yes.

386 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:20pm

re: #380 prairiefire

Train is performing in the pouring rain at half time, God Bless 'em.

Love that song.

387 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:34pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

That's what reminded my of that clip.

I like my songs to have a good hook

388 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:36pm

I'm familiar with the mugged by reality phrase and while I kinda understand where Kristol was coming from, I don't think it's entirely true. I certainly faced a lot of disillusionment in my political views after Kerry lost. I didn't become a conservative because of that though. I did become more practical in how I viewed the world but my same basic philosophy is the same as it was when I was an idealistic high school kid.

389 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:45pm

re: #371 cliffster

White-collar conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me.
They're hoping soon my kind will drop and die,
But I'm gonna wave my freak flag high

Did you come up with that? It sounds like my personal anthem.

390 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:01:53pm

re: #382 Jadespring

I got offered job as an apprentice to a chef.

Do it.

391 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:02:28pm

re: #384 eclectic infidel

Oh. Stop that. You still love her/him.

She is still a she.

392 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:02:31pm

re: #389 prairiefire

Did you come up with that? It sounds like my personal anthem.

Hendrix. IF Six was nine. Excellent song.

393 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:02:36pm

re: #373 Dark_Falcon

True that. Writing about the battle, Robert Leckie found it fitting that those canister shots fired by Indiana gunners repulsed the troops of the Yankee-hating Daniel Harvey Hill, who had once written a math problem that began "At Buena Vista, two Indiana volunteers ran away from the battle." As an aside, its worth noting that Leckie's experience as a Marine served him in good stead writing about the ambush of the Union troops in the West Wood. His portrayal is so vivid because he himself had fought off ambushes in the Pacific. Before he wrote about it, he lived it.

In part it was probably so bloody because McCLellan knew exactly what Lee had planned and so he was able to bring his greater numbers to bear in ways that the Union wouldn't do again till Grant was put in charge....

394 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:02:36pm

re: #377 Dark_Falcon

Why?

Because it destroys the character and fabric of neighborhoods. It eventually pushes people out and replaces it with an artificial interpretation of the original neighborhood. Ironically, what attracted those yuppies to that neighborhood in the first place is permanently destroyed.

395 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:03:01pm

re: #377 Dark_Falcon

Why?

ever had your rent raised to the point where you couldn't afford it? Every been priced out of your own home?

Would you find that to be an enjoyable experience?

396 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:03:03pm

re: #367 WindUpBird

I'm wondering what I could get mugged with that would make me change my opinions about art, about equal rights for everyone under the law, about people pitching in to create a society that works for all its services, about creating a health care system that distributes the load properly like the rest of the civilized world

Maybe people whose convictions change on a dime because of one event, maybe their convictions weren't that set in the first place?

I really don't think it happens. People's opinions may change a little, grade one way or another, but I don't see enormous ideological changes happening.

Even after 9/11 it really didn't happen. My moonbatty friends were still moonbats. My centrist liberal friends were still centrist liberals. Some of us were baying for blood, but we were the ones who'd always kept that door open for ourselves.

Maybe I just know a lot of set-in-their-ways folks.

397 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:03:19pm

re: #392 HappyWarrior

Hendrix. IF Six was nine. Excellent song.

Tool. 46 and 2.

398 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:03:20pm

re: #387 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

BACKIN UP SONG!!

399 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:03:20pm

re: #374 SanFranciscoZionist

There was a pro-gentrification rally in the Mission once.

It was a joke, but some of the rally members didn't realize that, and since then, the event has found its way into an indignant essay in an anthology called 'Colonize This!'.

You should be careful about jokes.

[Link: www.evilmilk.com...]

400 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:03:55pm

re: #383 Walter L. Newton

Talk about dense.

not dense, stubborn

401 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:04:06pm

I love Suzy Kolber.

402 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:04:11pm

re: #389 prairiefire

Did you come up with that? It sounds like my personal anthem.

Hendrix. If 6 were 9.

I don't mind... I don't mind...

403 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:04:17pm

re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar

A commercial just came on my TV. Good news, I can train to be a chef. Prayers, answered.

I'd rather train to become a Chief.

In my house we have too many Indians and not enough chiefs.

404 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:04:26pm

re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar

A commercial just came on my TV. Good news, I can train to be a chef. Prayers, answered.

I keep telling my husband he's got to do something to get himself out of the house or I'm going to enroll him in chef school. He seems to be getting interested in chef school.

405 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:04:28pm

re: #391 Cannadian Club Akbar

She is still a she.

And she's STILL not that into you!
///

406 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:04:47pm

re: #390 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do it.

I'm going too. It doesn't start until the spring though.

Cool thing is I was seriously thinking about going to culinary school but couldn't work it for this fall. Then one night we were out for dinner and there was a notice for a job. I thought what the heck I'll ask about it. Ended up talking with the chef for a bit which led to this job offer.

I like this way better. I get paid to learn rather then having to pay to learn. :)

407 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:01pm

re: #400 brookly red

not dense, stubborn

How's your fake girlfriend, dude

408 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:04pm

re: #367 WindUpBird

I'm wondering what I could get mugged with that would make me change my opinions about art, about equal rights for everyone under the law, about people pitching in to create a society that works for all its services, about creating a health care system that distributes the load properly like the rest of the civilized world

Maybe people whose convictions change on a dime because of one event, maybe their convictions weren't that set in the first place?

WUB, you know this, but let me state: It's an old used quote by republicans to justify their membership. Nothing more. Nothing DEEP to it, to say the least.

Remember, their taxes went down. But we'd never know it for the crying.

409 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:08pm

Since we often talk of Park 51, I submit the following article to everyone. It's not a hate piece, but it is not kind to Imam Rauf. I tend to trust City Journal, so I'm going to ask folks to read it and give me their opinions:

Rauf on the Ropes by Judith Miller

410 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:23pm

re: #404 SanFranciscoZionist

I keep telling my husband he's got to do something to get himself out of the house or I'm going to enroll him in chef school. He seems to be getting interested in chef school.

Send him to CIA. I think you guys have one there.

411 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:26pm

re: #374 SanFranciscoZionist

There was a pro-gentrification rally in the Mission once.

It was a joke, but some of the rally members didn't realize that, and since then, the event has found its way into an indignant essay in an anthology called 'Colonize This!'.

You should be careful about jokes.

What ever became of that? I was looking through Google Streets and most of the Mission hasn't changed. I know around Candlestick Park that wasn't the case and now it's another boring collection of crappy post modern architecture and young white posers.

412 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:37pm

re: #388 HappyWarrior

I'm familiar with the mugged by reality phrase and while I kinda understand where Kristol was coming from, I don't think it's entirely true. I certainly faced a lot of disillusionment in my political views after Kerry lost. I didn't become a conservative because of that though. I did become more practical in how I viewed the world but my same basic philosophy is the same as it was when I was an idealistic high school kid.

That. We may become more practical, or open, or closed, or whatever, versions of ourselves, but our basic beliefs...don't change that much.

413 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:52pm

re: #396 SanFranciscoZionist

I really don't think it happens. People's opinions may change a little, grade one way or another, but I don't see enormous ideological changes happening.

Even after 9/11 it really didn't happen. My moonbatty friends were still moonbats. My centrist liberal friends were still centrist liberals. Some of us were baying for blood, but we were the ones who'd always kept that door open for ourselves.

Maybe I just know a lot of set-in-their-ways folks.

It always happens to some people but I think most people hold generally hte same convictions throughout their lives. My dad's mom was an as proud Democrat in her early 90's with a letter from Bill Clinton as she was when FDR was first elected the first time she voted in the early 30's.

414 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:55pm

re: #394 Gus 802

Welcome to Los Angeles, most of NYC, and many other places.
If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
Detroit is available, but you probably don't want to go there.

415 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:05:55pm

re: #407 WindUpBird

How's your fake girlfriend, dude

perma gaze

416 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:06:21pm

re: #402 cliffster

re: #392 HappyWarrior

I must have that rattling around in the cob webby rafters of my brain.
Night, lizards.

417 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:06:27pm

re: #406 Jadespring

And you get to wear a cool jacket with your name on it.

418 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:06:50pm

re: #394 Gus 802

Because it destroys the character and fabric of neighborhoods. It eventually pushes people out and replaces it with an artificial interpretation of the original neighborhood. Ironically, what attracted those yuppies to that neighborhood in the first place is permanently destroyed.

What was really attractive was the price, and the hope that prices were moving upward.

419 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:07:14pm

re: #417 Cannadian Club Akbar

And you get to wear a cool jacket with your name on it.

And a cute little cap!

420 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:07:21pm

re: #394 Gus 802

Because it destroys the character and fabric of neighborhoods. It eventually pushes people out and replaces it with an artificial interpretation of the original neighborhood. Ironically, what attracted those yuppies to that neighborhood in the first place is permanently destroyed.

I hear you. I see why you dislike it.

421 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:07:21pm

Well, I'm going to go argue with my wife about religion.

In bed.

422 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:07:35pm

re: #417 Cannadian Club Akbar

And you get to wear a cool jacket with your name on it.

wait... mine has a number on it?

423 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:07:45pm

re: #389 prairiefire

Did you come up with that? It sounds like my personal anthem.

btw, I am the white collar conservative he talks about in his song. And I actually don't hope that your kind will drop and die. I just want you to stay off my lawn.

424 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:08:09pm

re: #421 b_sharp

Well, I'm going to go argue with my wife about religion.

In bed.

seems a bit late for that, no?

425 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:08:11pm

For SFZ.
[Link: www.ciachef.edu...]

426 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:08:37pm

re: #418 Floral Giraffe

What was really attractive was the price, and the hope that prices were moving upward.

That too. Mind you. It's not really drastic in my neighborhood. Yet. And that's a big yet. I saw it happen in the last place I lived before 2000. Never really amounted to much anyway. It's always the same thing too. Bars and restaurants -- the epitome of human civilization.

427 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:08:45pm

So... I have to work a not so usual overnight shift tonight so the regular overnight cashier/stocker can take a personal day off... and I am sitting in my office... with Tikki-Boo-Meow-Meow sitting on a office chair, cleaning himself... and I so badly want to just stay right here... as comfortable as Tikki-Boo-Meow-Meow.

428 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:08:45pm

2 Muslims travel 13,000 miles across America, find an embracing nation

The blue Chevy Cobalt broke down amid the mountains of Montana in an area where there was no cell phone reception. The Muslims in the car, on a cross-country journey for the holy month of Ramadan, approached a bushy-bearded fisherman.

It would be another test of a question they wondered when they first set off from New York three weeks earlier: Is America still the accepting nation that embraced our forebears or has it reached a new level of intolerance?

They began in New York, headed south and then cut across the country to California before making their way back, ending today in Michigan in the nation's largest Muslim community.

Far from the media frenzy dominating headlines, from the so-called "ground zero mosque" to a pastor's planned Quran burning, Aman Ali and Bassam Tariq traveled more than 13,000 miles into the heart of America over the last month, visiting 30 mosques in 30 days for Ramadan.

429 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:08:47pm

re: #422 brookly red

wait... mine has a number on it?

And it starts with DOC!!!!

430 b_Snark  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:09:11pm

re: #424 brookly red

seems a bit late for that, no?

Never too late to debate the ins and outs of the missionary's position.

431 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:09:20pm

re: #412 SanFranciscoZionist

That. We may become more practical, or open, or closed, or whatever, versions of ourselves, but our basic beliefs...don't change that much.

I really think that's the truth for most people so I disagree with Kristol and Churchill who is often attributed with the saying if you're 20 and not a liberal, you've got no heart, and if you're 40 and not a conservative, you've got no brain. Yeah there are prominent examples of people who did change their political philosophy. Reagan is the most famous that got elected to a high office that comes to mind for me but even he in a way didn't change his basic outlook. Reagan's optimism was no doubt influenced heavily by FDR.

432 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:09:27pm

re: #421 b_sharp

Well, I'm going to go argue with my wife about religion.

In bed.

Cannadian Club Akbar told me up thread not to start talking religion. So I didn't.

433 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:09:57pm

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

Didn't click, sorry D_F, but is it that Judith Miller? The one who had the affair over sacred gound?

434 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:10:32pm

re: #427 Walter L. Newton

So... I have to work a not so usual overnight shift tonight so the regular overnight cashier/stocker can take a personal day off... and I am sitting in my office... with Tikki-Boo-Meow-Meow sitting on a office chair, cleaning himself... and I so badly want to just stay right here... as comfortable as Tikki-Boo-Meow-Meow.

Correction... ok... Tikki-Boo-Meow-Meow is not licking his ass... I don't want to be that comfortable.

435 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:10:40pm

Freddie hasn't made a new video in a few weeks so here's a rerun for those who might have missed it.....
Flower Warfare

436 sagehen  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:10:44pm

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

Since we often talk of Park 51, I submit the following article to everyone. It's not a hate piece, but it is not kind to Imam Rauf. I tend to trust City Journal, so I'm going to ask folks to read it and give me their opinions:

Rauf on the Ropes by Judith Miller

Would that be the same Judith Miller who transcribed every word of Chalabi and Libby's "scoops" and "leaks" so Cheney could go on Meet the Press and say "even the New York Times is reporting that...." ?

Not the most credible 'journalist'.

437 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:10:45pm

For Jadespring!!
[Link: www.allheartchefs.com...]

438 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:10:49pm

re: #420 Dark_Falcon

I hear you. I see why you dislike it.

Yeah. And when you get the big money investors coming in they tend to get pushy. The mayor and council members don't care because money talks and all of that political rhetoric about the working class and poor go out the window -- yes that even includes Mayor Hickenlooper who's in like Flint with the Denver developers.

439 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:11:15pm

San Diego Chargers are falling apart.

440 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:11:19pm

re: #429 Cannadian Club Akbar

And it starts with DOC!!!

no... VFO. is that bad?

441 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:11:39pm

re: #393 jamesfirecat

In part it was probably so bloody because McCLellan knew exactly what Lee had planned and so he was able to bring his greater numbers to bear in ways that the Union wouldn't do again till Grant was put in charge...

But it galls to know that if it had been Grant or Meade and not McClellan in command that day, the Rebellion would have probably ended because the Army of Northern Virgnina would have ended. McClellan was a great administrator, a better trainer, but a foul combat leader.

442 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:11:41pm

re: #432 Walter L. Newton

Cannadian Club Akbar told me up thread not to start talking religion. So I didn't.

Wrong. I told him not to get you started. Difference.

443 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:12:23pm

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

San Diego Chargers are falling apart.

overrated *clap clap*. Not a Chiefs fan but my dad's friends with Todd Haley's cousin and Todd's father Dick was one of the architects of the Steelers amazing '74 draft.

444 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:12:32pm

re: #396 SanFranciscoZionist

I really don't think it happens. People's opinions may change a little, grade one way or another, but I don't see enormous ideological changes happening.

Even after 9/11 it really didn't happen. My moonbatty friends were still moonbats. My centrist liberal friends were still centrist liberals. Some of us were baying for blood, but we were the ones who'd always kept that door open for ourselves.

Maybe I just know a lot of set-in-their-ways folks.

Basically, what happened to several of my moderate-conservative friends is they weighed their conservative convictions about 9-11/Iraq/fiscal conservatism somewhat above their liberal convictions about equal rights and health care, then when the big rise of ultra-so-con crazies started to dominate the discourse, when you really started to see gays as a wedge issue, when Bush really started to circle the drain, Schaivo, Katrina, etc, they just started to realize they were voting for these people and enabling them and they just didn't like what they saw. Their ideology didn't change so much, but they started voting based on tangibles rather than abstracts. Standing firm on some tax policy means a bit less when you're gay or TG and candidates are just openly calling for your head, ya know? Now they tend to vote democrat but argue with other democrats, as opposed to voting republican and arguing with democrats. :D

445 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:12:45pm

re: #410 Cannadian Club Akbar

Send him to CIA. I think you guys have one there.

We do, I think. It's not an easy town to break into the foodie arts, though.

446 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:12:53pm

re: #428 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

2 Muslims travel 13,000 miles across America, find an embracing nation

Far from the media frenzy dominating headlines, from the so-called "ground zero mosque" to a pastor's planned Quran burning, Aman Ali and Bassam Tariq traveled more than 13,000 miles into the heart of America over the last month, visiting 30 mosques in 30 days for Ramadan.

I read their entries today. Very enlightening. Recommended for all. These guys are talented bloggers who brought stuff to the public (if you read) that will help in understanding. Kudos.

447 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:13:06pm

re: #441 wlewisiii

But it galls to know that if it had been Grant or Meade and not McClellan in command that day, the Rebellion would have probably ended because the Army of Northern Virgnina would have ended. McClellan was a great administrator, a better trainer, but a foul combat leader.

My dad once charitably said of MCellan that he loved his men too much to send them off to die...

448 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:13:20pm

I have to say that if this job does work out all the hours I spend vegged in front of the Food Network will be worth something. Even though I don't have any experience in a restaurant in the conversation I had with the chef I knew about things she talked about and was able to not sound like a complete food clueless dolt. She was testing me. I even held the knife right when she handed it to me. I pretty sure this is what got me the job offer.

449 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:13:40pm

re: #443 HappyWarrior

overrated *clap clap*. Not a Chiefs fan but my dad's friends with Todd Haley's cousin and Todd's father Dick was one of the architects of the Steelers amazing '74 draft.

The beat my Cowboys in 2 Superbowls.

450 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:13:45pm

re: #408 Stanley Sea

WUB, you know this, but let me state: It's an old used quote by republicans to justify their membership. Nothing more. Nothing DEEP to it, to say the least.

Remember, their taxes went down. But we'd never know it for the crying.

Dipshit tribalism, whee!

I just got done hearing about how I should trust the fucking US Chamber of Commerce on tax policy, which is a riot

"Well, they lie about everything else and they're the most gigantic lobbing force on earth, but they're TOTALLY HONEST ON TAX CUTS FOR RICH PEOPLE"

451 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:13:48pm

re: #376 brookly red

owww this sound good... what you got in mind?

Oh, nothing yet. I'm going to wait and see what happens. Nothing crazy though. More like petitions or neighborhood meetings.

452 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:13:56pm

re: #443 HappyWarrior

overrated *clap clap*. Not a Chiefs fan but my dad's friends with Todd Haley's cousin and Todd's father Dick was one of the architects of the Steelers amazing '74 draft.

74... that was when they invented electricity right?

453 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:14:02pm

re: #445 SanFranciscoZionist

We do, I think. It's not an easy town to break into the foodie arts, though.

But if you come out on top of cIA, look for 6 figures.

454 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:14:33pm

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

San Diego Chargers are falling apart.

Keeping up their fine tradition of fucking up their opening games

455 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:14:46pm

re: #449 NJDhockeyfan

The beat my Cowboys in 2 Superbowls.

Yep. They sure did. Before my time though.

456 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:14:55pm

re: #447 jamesfirecat

My dad once charitably said of MCellan that he loved his men too much to send them off to die...

There is most of the truth in that statement, I think.

457 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:15:05pm

re: #451 Gus 802

Oh, nothing yet. I'm going to wait and see what happens. Nothing crazy though. More like petitions or neighborhood meetings.

that should be about as effective as a strongly worded letter from the UN...

458 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:15:11pm

Just to annoy Newt, Dinesh D'Souza, and all the other mental midgets making racist noises these days, my soundtrack for the evening:

459 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:16:05pm

re: #436 sagehen

Would that be the same Judith Miller who transcribed every word of Chalabi and Libby's "scoops" and "leaks" so Cheney could go on Meet the Press and say "even the New York Times is reporting that..." ?

Not the most credible 'journalist'.

Yep, it's that one. The one who fucked Bernie Kerick in a condo reserved for first responders. Sorry for the harsh, but come on! Does nothing destroy these cretins?

460 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:16:26pm

re: #448 Jadespring

I have to say that if this job does work out all the hours I spend vegged in front of the Food Network will be worth something. Even though I don't have any experience in a restaurant in the conversation I had with the chef I knew about things she talked about and was able to not sound like a complete food clueless dolt. She was testing me. I even held the knife right when she handed it to me. I pretty sure this is what got me the job offer.

It's hard work but you learn a lot and it can be very fun if you make it fun. Fast food will never be the same after you cook real dishes.

461 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:16:36pm

re: #458 Lidane

Just to annoy Newt, Dinesh D'Souza, and all the other mental midgets making racist noises these days, my soundtrack for the evening:

Seems like lately, this song pretty much fits the GOP

462 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:16:37pm

re: #448 Jadespring

Buy your own knives. They will feel comfy in your hand. Balance is what you are looking for.

463 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:17:06pm

re: #455 HappyWarrior

Yep. They sure did. Before my time though.

Not mine. I actually went to Super Bowl XIII. My mom's orthopedic surgeon was one of the team doctors for the Cowboys at the time and he gave her tickets to the game.

I was five years old, so I remember more of my trip to Disney World than the game itself, but I've got pictures and still have the ticket stubs in a scrapbook. :)

464 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:17:19pm

re: #433 Stanley Sea

Didn't click, sorry D_F, but is it that Judith Miller? The one who had the affair over sacred gound?

Yes, that's her. i don't remember the event you speak of, though.

465 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:17:48pm

re: #462 Cannadian Club Akbar

Buy your own knives. They will feel comfy in your hand. Balance is what you are looking for.

I have my own already. My fave is my Santoko.

466 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:17:55pm

re: #460 NJDhockeyfan

It's hard work but you learn a lot and it can be very fun if you make it fun. Fast food will never be the same after you cook real dishes.

Where I work, it is an average of 7 steps just to plate a dish.

467 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:18:02pm

re: #462 Cannadian Club Akbar

Buy your own knives. They will feel comfy in your hand. Balance is what you are looking for.

/real men use one knife for everything... :)

468 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:18:07pm

re: #411 Gus 802

What ever became of that? I was looking through Google Streets and most of the Mission hasn't changed. I know around Candlestick Park that wasn't the case and now it's another boring collection of crappy post modern architecture and young white posers.

At the height of the dot-com boom, a lot of semi-affluent white couples were moving into the Mission. Conflict sparked, not so much between the indigenous Latino blue-collar community of the area and the yuppies, but between the yuppies and their hipster cousins who had been using the area for dirt-cheap studio space. There was a lot of yelling and overwrought political nonsense for a couple of years.

Then the dot-com boom ended, and no one could afford to live in San Francisco again. La Mision is still La Mision. The burritos are still good, and the hookers still line Capp Street.

469 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:18:08pm

re: #457 brookly red

that should be about as effective as a strongly worded letter from the UN...

Well, not really since it would also involve an establishment with a liquor license. Anyway, if the place gets on my nerves I'll just change my habits and shop elsewhere. Being around yuppies gives me the cramps.

470 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:19:28pm

re: #467 brookly red

/real men use one knife for everything... :)

And mine is 12 inches. (this is true. I mean the knife)

471 brookly red  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:19:53pm

re: #469 Gus 802

Well, not really since it would also involve an establishment with a liquor license. Anyway, if the place gets on my nerves I'll just change my habits and shop elsewhere. Being around yuppies gives me the cramps.

well take comfort in knowing that their worlds are crashing and they have no clue how to survive in hard times ;)

472 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:20:09pm

re: #468 SanFranciscoZionist

At the height of the dot-com boom, a lot of semi-affluent white couples were moving into the Mission. Conflict sparked, not so much between the indigenous Latino blue-collar community of the area and the yuppies, but between the yuppies and their hipster cousins who had been using the area for dirt-cheap studio space. There was a lot of yelling and overwrought political nonsense for a couple of years.

Then the dot-com boom ended, and no one could afford to live in San Francisco again. La Mision is still La Mision. The burritos are still good, and the hookers still line Capp Street.

Good news. That's what we need. A Mexican restaurant. And not some stinky chain like Chipotle.

473 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:20:36pm

re: #464 Dark_Falcon

Yes, that's her. i don't remember the event you speak of, though.

oooh, it's a goodie. Look her up with Bernie Kerick (sp?) In the condo above "sacred ground" reserved for the first responders.

She's another grifter.

474 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:21:08pm

re: #445 SanFranciscoZionist

KILLER Italian & Vietnamese food in SF, this weekend.
I am so back on a diet...

475 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:21:13pm

re: #467 brookly red

/real men use one knife for everything... :)

Shaving, chopping wood, making pesto...

476 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:21:24pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Good news. That's what we need. A Mexican restaurant. And not some stinky chain like Chipotle.

Chipotle is garbage.

477 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:21:47pm

re: #476 Cannadian Club Akbar

Chipotle is garbage.

They're owned by McDonald's.

478 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:22:05pm

re: #447 jamesfirecat

My dad once charitably said of MCellan that he loved his men too much to send them off to die...

And that's why he was a bad combat leader. He could not cold enough to order the attacks needed to end the war, though he was very badly served by Allan Pinkerton's intelligence work.

479 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:22:18pm

re: #472 Gus 802

Good news. That's what we need. A Mexican restaurant. And not some stinky chain like Chipotle.

fuck you, dude, chipotle is good shit. so is Freebirds

480 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:22:22pm

re: #466 Cannadian Club Akbar

Where I work, it is an average of 7 steps just to plate a dish.

That's not hard. Learning how to cook great food in a professional kitchen from a real chef is wonderful. The food network is not the same thing. That channel is more for people who want to get past frozen dinners.

481 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:22:29pm

re: #475 SanFranciscoZionist

Shaving, chopping wood, making pesto...

Hacking up the Ex.
/Signed, OJ
//that was so wrong

482 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:22:45pm

re: #479 cliffster

fuck you, dude, chipotle is good shit. so is Freebirds

TGIF rules!

/

483 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:23:06pm

re: #477 Gus 802

They're owned by McDonald's.

No wait. They divested in 2006.

484 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:24:32pm

re: #480 NJDhockeyfan

Believe me. I spent many years doing what I do. But presentation usually slips everyone's mind.

485 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:24:35pm

re: #483 Gus 802

No wait. They divested in 2006.

First I heard of it. Chipolte's good hurry food but I would never ever call it premiere Mexican food.
Taco Bell < Chipolote < Don Pablo's < Rio Grande < La Hacienda

486 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:24:39pm

re: #481 Cannadian Club Akbar

Represented by his good friend Mr. Kardashian.

487 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:25:45pm

re: #486 Stanley Sea

Represented by his good friend Mr. Kardashian.

Are his daughters the whores on TV?

488 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:26:00pm

re: #476 Cannadian Club Akbar

Chipotle is garbage.

Chipotle uses meat sourced from free-range ranches. That moves them immediately to the top of my list. Being against torture of the innocent gets you a lot of points in my book.

That being said, they aren't mexican food, nor are the tex-mex, but I don't think they say they are. They are bigassburrito-can food.

489 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:26:00pm

re: #479 cliffster

Freebirds

I like Freebirds, but I'm closer to Cabo Bob's, so I go there more often.

490 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:26:02pm

re: #485 HappyWarrior

First I heard of it. Chipolte's good hurry food but I would never ever call it premiere Mexican food.
Taco Bell < Chipolote < Don Pablo's < Rio Grande < La Hacienda

Taco Hell is not food. It doesn't even rise to the level of Soylent Green.

491 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:26:13pm

re: #485 HappyWarrior

First I heard of it. Chipolte's good hurry food but I would never ever call it premiere Mexican food.
Taco Bell < Chipolote < Don Pablo's < Rio Grande < La Hacienda

Yeah. Chipotle is OK. Might depend on the particular location. Still, I prefer to see an owner-operator type establishment. Hard to find in this day of corporate monopolies.

492 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:26:34pm

re: #473 Stanley Sea

oooh, it's a goodie. Look her up with Bernie Kerick (sp?) In the condo above "sacred ground" reserved for the first responders.

She's another grifter.

Eww. And she loses my respect for sleeping with a married man. What did you think of the article, though? I thought it flawed but possibly right about the way things are going. This paragraph, though, set off an alarm bell:

Rauf sounded alternately defensive and belligerent when, answering one of the few tough questions he got all morning, he scoffed at the notion of the World Trade Center site as “hallowed” ground. “It is absolutely disingenuous, what many have said, that that block is hallowed ground,” Rauf replied. “There are strip joints around the corners, and betting parlors. . . . I want a space where moderates can be heard,” he insisted, asserting that Muslim extremists had hijacked not only his religion but its discourse.

It seems clear to me that Rauf is referring to Park 51's block, not the WTC site itself. That's why I brought the article up.

493 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:26:55pm

re: #490 wlewisiii

Taco Hell is not food. It doesn't even rise to the level of Soylent Green.

And yet its still better than Del Taco

494 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:27:29pm

re: #491 Gus 802

Yeah. Chipotle is OK. Might depend on the particular location. Still, I prefer to see an owner-operator type establishment. Hard to find in this day of corporate monopolies.

Yeah those are good to see. Found an excellent deli last week across the street from campus after I was done covering the volleyball game. Had a delicious garlic chicken sandwhich on pita bread.

495 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:27:37pm

re: #490 wlewisiii

Taco Hell is not food. It doesn't even rise to the level of Soylent Green.

Yeah, this. You might as well nuke one of those burritos they sell at 7-11 and choke it down with a flat can of Pepsi. That's a higher quality meal than Taco Bell. =P

496 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:27:39pm

re: #488 cliffster

They are Subway. Just different. I actually sent them my resume when there were only 4 stores.

497 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:27:58pm

I've got to get some sleep.

But for those of you who remember the Vietnam War, here's something you might find interesting:
the Virtual Wall.

When you go to the site, click on a state. When it opens, scroll down to the city and the names will appear. Then click on a name. It should show you a picture of the person, or at least their bio and medals, and other pertinent information, including the location of their name on the Wall.

498 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:28:14pm

re: #480 NJDhockeyfan

That's not hard. Learning how to cook great food in a professional kitchen from a real chef is wonderful. The food network is not the same thing. That channel is more for people who want to get past frozen dinners.

That's me. I would never want to cook professionally, but I learn a lot of things I can use in my own kitchen from watching the food shows. I love my parents to distraction, but I grew up in a family where we almost always ate a grilled protein, a starch, and a green salad every freaking night. Unless there was pizza. We also didn't listen to music. I appreciate the love of literature and politics my folks passed on to me, but I strive for, well, more.

499 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:28:40pm

re: #484 Cannadian Club Akbar

Believe me. I spent many years doing what I do. But presentation usually slips everyone's mind.

It mandatory in the better restaurants. The chains usually put a piece of fruit or parsley on the plate. Then again those are the same restaurants that get their soups and sauces out of cans.

500 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:28:53pm

re: #487 Cannadian Club Akbar

Are his daughters the whores on TV?

yes.

501 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:29:01pm

re: #489 Lidane

I like Freebirds, but I'm closer to Cabo Bob's, so I go there more often.

Sweet! My wife and I are on the other side of town, but we went to that place after dropping the kids off with grandparents once. It was awesome. We actually had the, "Cabo Bob's or Chipotle?" conversation. Verdict: apples and oranges. But if Cabo Bob's had a spot up north, we'd go there more than Chipotle.

502 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:29:16pm

re: #494 HappyWarrior

Yeah those are good to see. Found an excellent deli last week across the street from campus after I was done covering the volleyball game. Had a delicious garlic chicken sandwhich on pita bread.

Try finding a good sub shop these days. Subway does not make subs. I don't know what they sell but they're not the big old giant sub/hoagies I grew up with in South Jersey. It's hoagies for suburbia.

503 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:29:26pm

re: #491 Gus 802

Yeah. Chipotle is OK. Might depend on the particular location. Still, I prefer to see an owner-operator type establishment. Hard to find in this day of corporate monopolies.

Try American Dog, if you ever come to Chicago. They've got hotdogs from all over the nation. And the founders still work at the locations, too. The Billy Goat is another multi-location place where the owner still works the counter at times.

504 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:29:42pm

re: #496 Cannadian Club Akbar

They are Subway. Just different. I actually sent them my resume when there were only 4 stores.

Subway!

[Sound of cat vomiting.]

/

505 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:30:12pm

re: #499 NJDhockeyfan

It mandatory in the better restaurants. The chains usually put a piece of fruit or parsley on the plate. Then again those are the same restaurants that get their soups and sauces out of cans.

What I do is different. Hoping to do a presentation chapter for the next LGF cookbook.

506 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:30:19pm

re: #492 Dark_Falcon

Eww. And she loses my respect for sleeping with a married man. What did you think of the article, though? I thought it flawed but possibly right about the way things are going. This paragraph, though, set off an alarm bell:

It seems clear to me that Rauf is referring to Park 51's block, not the WTC site itself. That's why I brought the article up.

DF, I don't trust a word out of Judith Miller's mouth. Really, it sucks for her to lose the credibility, but I'll read it elsewhere, if it appears.

507 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:31:00pm

re: #502 Gus 802

Try finding a good sub shop these days. Subway does not make subs. I don't know what they sell but they're not the big old giant sub/hoagies I grew up with in South Jersey. It's hoagies for suburbia.

Yeah that's something I need to find. I did find a nice mom and pop kabob place this past summer. Real nice owner too. Called be my first name since he saw my name on my credit card. Food was of course delicious.

508 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:31:14pm

re: #503 Dark_Falcon

Try American Dog, if you ever come to Chicago. They've got hotdogs from all over the nation. And the founders still work at the locations, too. The Billy Goat is another multi-location place where the owner still works the counter at times.

Last time I was in Chicago, I tried dude-with-a-hotdog-stand-outside-the-museum. One hotdog, no sides, enough food for 2 days. Chicago is awesome.

509 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:31:25pm

re: #500 Stanley Sea

yes.

Can I nic name them fat ass whores?

510 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:32:03pm

re: #480 NJDhockeyfan

That's not hard. Learning how to cook great food in a professional kitchen from a real chef is wonderful. The food network is not the same thing. That channel is more for people who want to get past frozen dinners.

Yes but you can learn enough from it to help get your foot in the door of professional kitchen. :D I barely watch the actual cooking step by step shows though. Mostly just the ones about actual restaurants and the competition ones. My guilty pleasures are the 'you're restaurant sucks and we're going to fix it" ones.

511 austin_blue  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:32:04pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

I treasure David Frum. He reminds me that I'm not wrong to think that one can be right of moderate and not be crazy about it.

Sadly, your position has been hijacked by whackos and wingnuts.

512 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:32:13pm

re: #493 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And yet its still better than Del Taco

If you have one near where you live, try Qdoba Mexican Grill. t's a chain, but quite good.

513 jaunte  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:32:15pm

re: #502 Gus 802

There was a place in Houston on Navigation St. called Ninfa's that years ago only had 8 tables. Ninfa sent a few of her kids to college to get MBA's on what she made from the restaurant. Now with their marketing help the family is rich, but their restaurants aren't considered as 'authentic.'

514 Kragar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:32:55pm

re: #512 Dark_Falcon

If you have one near where you live, try Qdoba Mexican Grill. t's a chain, but quite good.

Doesn't ring a bell.

515 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:33:08pm

re: #492 Dark_Falcon

Oh and re-reading it yeah. I saw the Rauf interview. It's in reference to the damn Burlington Coat Factory block.

Miller is embellishing her opinion into it. And she's the ultimate hypocrite. GAH

516 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:33:18pm

re: #511 austin_blue

Sadly, your position has been hijacked by whackos and wingnuts.

I know that, and it eats at me every day.

517 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:33:44pm

re: #509 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can I nic name them fat ass whores?

No need to.
They've done it for themselves!

518 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:34:07pm

re: #516 Dark_Falcon

I know that, and it eats at me every day.

And that is why we stay and fight.

519 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:34:08pm

re: #509 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. Best thing to do is reference their lineage. No one dares to do that.

520 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:34:27pm

re: #518 Cannadian Club Akbar

And that is why we stay and fight.

Quite Concur.

521 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:34:35pm

re: #502 Gus 802

Try finding a good sub shop these days. Subway does not make subs. I don't know what they sell but they're not the big old giant sub/hoagies I grew up with in South Jersey. It's hoagies for suburbia.

They don't use good bread. That's half the battle. Subway's bread tastes like shit. Jimmie John's bread ain't too bad. That's all I have down here in the south. I loved going to the sub shop when I visited my mom last month.

522 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:34:57pm

re: #501 cliffster

Sweet! My wife and I are on the other side of town, but we went to that place after dropping the kids off with grandparents once. It was awesome. We actually had the, "Cabo Bob's or Chipotle?" conversation. Verdict: apples and oranges. But if Cabo Bob's had a spot up north, we'd go there more than Chipotle.

I love Cabo Bob's. Plus, it's owned by a fellow St. Ed's alum, so I can feel good about supporting one of my own when I eat there. The Dublin Dr. Pepper on tap doesn't hurt, either. :D

523 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:35:09pm

re: #511 austin_blue

Sadly, your position has been hijacked by whackos and wingnuts.

wrong. positions are positions, irrespective of the people who hold the positions. Saying a position is "being hijacked" plays into the hands of the sales and marketing efforts that are modern day politics.

524 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:35:16pm

Now I want a whore and a burrito!!
/

525 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:36:01pm

I always felt Subway was overrated as hell honestly. As far as the chains go, I guess Quiznos would be my favorite. When it comes to pizza places, I really like mom and pop or local chains. I really don't like Papa Johns or Dominos and especially Pizza Hut all that much. Of course those are usually cheaper and with my college student income it's usually one of those three.

526 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:36:11pm

re: #521 NJDhockeyfan

They don't use good bread. That's half the battle. Subway's bread tastes like shit. Jimmie John's bread ain't too bad. That's all I have down here in the south. I loved going to the sub shop when I visited my mom last month.

Exactly. I was going to mention that. What in the world is with the bread at Subway? It smell like poo-poo. It's gross and has no body, texture or size. You need a big old fat loaf of Italian bread. Then when you eat the sub you have to press down on the bread to take a bite out it.

527 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:36:19pm

re: #505 Cannadian Club Akbar

What I do is different. Hoping to do a presentation chapter for the next LGF cookbook.

Great idea! There is much more to cooking than putting a piece of cooked meat on a plate with veggies.

528 austin_blue  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:36:33pm

re: #513 jaunte

There was a place in Houston on Navigation St. called Ninfa's that years ago only had 8 tables. Ninfa sent a few of her kids to college to get MBA's on what she made from the restaurant. Now with their marketing help the family is rich, but their restaurants aren't considered as 'authentic.'

They tried to infiltrate the Austin market, but like the Coyote Cafe, they discovered that the local Meskin restaurants beat them on both quality and price. Major fail.

529 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:36:37pm

re: #524 Cannadian Club Akbar

Now I want a whore and a burrito!!
/

People in hell want ice water too...

530 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:36:43pm

re: #521 NJDhockeyfan

They don't use good bread. That's half the battle. Subway's bread tastes like shit. Jimmie John's bread ain't too bad. That's all I have down here in the south. I loved going to the sub shop when I visited my mom last month.

Where are you right now? I think you've mentioned it before, but I don't remember.

531 darthstar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:36:59pm

Ah, damn...food talk and I missed it. My wife is a trained chef, though I do most of the cooking. Tonight we had roasted boneless leg of lamb with green beans and a wheat-berry/feta/grilled pepper salad. It was a team effort. A bottle of Peter Lehmann 2004 Barossa Shiraz accompanied...nice, big-fucking Shiraz. Almost like a Central Coast Pinot Noir. Fruity and fun.

Oh, well...I'll catch it next time. I'm off to start a good book. G'night.

532 tnguitarist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:37:12pm

re: #521 NJDhockeyfan

They don't use good bread. That's half the battle. Subway's bread tastes like shit. Jimmie John's bread ain't too bad. That's all I have down here in the south. I loved going to the sub shop when I visited my mom last month.

When did you move south? Did I miss something?

533 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:37:19pm

re: #523 cliffster

wrong. positions are positions, irrespective of the people who hold the positions. Saying a position is "being hijacked" plays into the hands of the sales and marketing efforts that are modern day politics.

Stand up Cliff!!!!

(who's your college team btw?)

534 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:37:43pm

re: #497 reine.de.tout

I've got to get some sleep.

But for those of you who remember the Vietnam War, here's something you might find interesting:
the Virtual Wall.

When you go to the site, click on a state. When it opens, scroll down to the city and the names will appear. Then click on a name. It should show you a picture of the person, or at least their bio and medals, and other pertinent information, including the location of their name on the Wall.

I was a year and a half old when Vietnam ended.

That said, I have to tell you my Vietnam Wall story. I was teaching ESL, middle school. We had this crap series of books, and the reading selection I was testing the kids on was this weird piece that included a section on walls. The Vietnam Memorial was in it, also the fence around Pablo Neruda's house, and, I think, the Pompeii murals.

One of the essay questions was "Who would you build a monument to, and why?" (I did not write this question. Just to be clear. And 'monument' was one of the remarkably useless English vocabulary words this book favored. It was not the most useless. The most useless English vocabulary word in the book was a tie between 'granary' and 'babushka'.)

I pick up the papers. One of my Chinese speakers has written in response to that question: "I would build a monument for (let's call the gentleman William C. Buckworth, I do not recall his name), because he was brave and fought in the war."

I pause. I have no idea who the hell William C. Buckworth is. Should I know who William C. Buckworth is? Perhaps he's some American army guy who was in China during WWII, and the kids learned about him in school? I shrug, grade the answer, and move on.

To the next kid. "I would build a monument for William C. Buckworth and Eric Wiley, because they were so brave to be in a war."

WHO THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE??

I pick up a third paper. "I would build a big monument for William C. Buckworth..."

I'm losing my mind. They're not cheating, when they cheat they copy word for word. What the hell? Who are these people? Why don't I know about them? What war? WTF?

Then I have an inspiration, and grab the textbook, which the kids could use for the test.

They have a close-up shot of the Vietnam Memorial. Buckworth and Wiley are the names close enough to read.

The kids hated ambiguous questions about personal opinions and shit. This had made it easy for them.

535 austin_blue  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:37:56pm

re: #516 Dark_Falcon

I know that, and it eats at me every day.

Then what are going to do about it?

536 jaunte  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:38:01pm

re: #528 austin_blue

I thought it was better as just one restaurant, but they had other ideas.

537 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:38:26pm

re: #512 Dark_Falcon

If you have one near where you live, try Qdoba Mexican Grill. t's a chain, but quite good.

They're ok. I get a bit goggle eyed at some of their concoctions, but it's better than 90% of the chain stuff.

God, there was this little shop in St. Cloud MN when I was at college there, couple that owned it learned in Mexico City. Big proper rice bean & meat burritos that had a range of heat from barely there (mine) to the flamethrowers have nothing on this (some of my friends). Killer chicken mole. Their homemade choritso was exquisite as well. There are a couple of good shops here in Madison but nothing quite like that one.

538 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:38:49pm

re: #531 darthstar

Ah, damn...food talk and I missed it. My wife is a trained chef, though I do most of the cooking. Tonight we had roasted boneless leg of lamb with green beans and a wheat-berry/feta/grilled pepper salad. It was a team effort. A bottle of Peter Lehmann 2004 Barossa Shiraz accompanied...nice, big-fucking Shiraz. Almost like a Central Coast Pinot Noir. Fruity and fun.

Oh, well...I'll catch it next time. I'm off to start a good book. G'night.

so yum

539 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:38:56pm

re: #529 Floral Giraffe

People in hell want ice water too...

I was hoping you had a burrito. 2 birds, one stone and all that.
/Ducks!!

540 austin_blue  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:39:09pm

re: #523 cliffster

wrong. positions are positions, irrespective of the people who hold the positions. Saying a position is "being hijacked" plays into the hands of the sales and marketing efforts that are modern day politics.

DF disagrees with you.

541 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:39:56pm

re: #533 Stanley Sea

Stand up Cliff!!!

(who's your college team btw?)

burnt orange Texas, my friend. Perhaps we'll meet in January for the whole burrito in the next few years...

542 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:41:19pm

re: #534 SanFranciscoZionist

The pain and the glory of TEACHING. !!!

543 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:41:42pm

re: #510 Jadespring

Yes but you can learn enough from it to help get your foot in the door of professional kitchen. :D I barely watch the actual cooking step by step shows though. Mostly just the ones about actual restaurants and the competition ones. My guilty pleasures are the 'you're restaurant sucks and we're going to fix it" ones.

I recently found Anthony Bourdain's show on the Travel Channel. I love the food he finds. The show from Spain was incredible.

544 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:42:01pm

when i was a kid in manhattan there used to be a lot of cuban/puerto rican/salvadorenean/chinese places ("comidas criollas y chinas"), little yellow formica holes in the wall where you could get a killer dinner of arroz con pollo, maduros, cafe con leche, and flan, for under $8

when you can find them now they've gone upscale & it just isn't the same

545 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:42:53pm

re: #541 cliffster

burnt orange Texas, my friend. Perhaps we'll meet in January for the whole burrito in the next few years...

I always say this, but maybe I'm going to buy some tix (if available) now. There's always the huge 2 week prior re-sale. ????!!!!!

546 darthstar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:43:01pm

One quick Burning Man pic from a friend who just posted on fb before bed.


Signage

And remember, there's no team in 'fuck you'...good night.

547 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:43:26pm

re: #542 Stanley Sea

The pain and the glory of TEACHING. !!!

I feel I need to give back to the teaching community. So I am gonna start a charity. Tasers for Teachers. I think it will catch on.
/effing brats

548 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:43:33pm

re: #536 jaunte

I thought it was better as just one restaurant, but they had other ideas.

Yeah, unfortunately. =/

549 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:43:44pm

re: #544 engineer dog

when i was a kid in manhattan there used to be a lot of cuban/puerto rican/salvadorenean/chinese places ("comidas criollas y chinas"), little yellow formica holes in the wall where you could get a killer dinner of arroz con pollo, maduros, cafe con leche, and flan, for under $8

when you can find them now they've gone upscale & it just isn't the same

Yeah. Now you have to spend 3 times as much for just the entrée then sit down and eat in a place with an attitude.

550 austin_blue  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:44:34pm

re: #544 engineer dog

when i was a kid in manhattan there used to be a lot of cuban/puerto rican/salvadorenean/chinese places ("comidas criollas y chinas"), little yellow formica holes in the wall where you could get a killer dinner of arroz con pollo, maduros, cafe con leche, and flan, for under $8

when you can find them now they've gone upscale & it just isn't the same

Come to Austin. We've got few chains and a huge number of home-grown ethnic eateries. Lovely.

551 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:44:40pm

re: #543 NJDhockeyfan

I recently found Anthony Bourdain's show on the Travel Channel. I love the food he finds. The show from Spain was incredible.

The Spain episode is one of my favorites: especially the part where he goes to a restaurant in the hills where the cook over wood fire and he had the tiny eels (cooked over a wood fire).

552 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:44:46pm

re: #543 NJDhockeyfan

I recently found Anthony Bourdain's show on the Travel Channel. I love the food he finds. The show from Spain was incredible.

I like those types too. I'll check that one out if I come across it.

553 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:45:48pm

Be well, all.

554 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:46:22pm

re: #543 NJDhockeyfan

I watch Top Chef too - Boudrain is the devil for the chefs. I love his shows.

555 cliffster  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:46:43pm

re: #553 Floral Giraffe

Be well, all.

be good, fg

556 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:47:19pm

re: #554 Stanley Sea

I watch Top Chef too - Boudrain is the devil for the chefs. I love his shows.

I thought that was the English guy?

557 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:47:28pm

Time to call it for the night, have a good evening all.

558 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:48:09pm

re: #530 Lidane

Where are you right now? I think you've mentioned it before, but I don't remember.

Central Virginia. Not really an area known for it's outstanding restaurants. There are a couple though, Guadalajara Mexican Restaurant in Charlottesville is fantastic and the Edelweiss Restaurant in Staunton, my favorite one. Great German food is hard to find. The Edelweiss is amazing.

559 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:48:39pm

re: #532 tnguitarist

When did you move south? Did I miss something?

I've been here since 1990.

560 Cato the Elder  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:48:54pm

GOP.

Win in the short term, lose in the long.

Demographics.

That is all.

561 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:49:51pm

re: #514 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Doesn't ring a bell.

It's essentially Chipotle with some minor differences. When I went to school in Madison, they had one of each within about a block of each other. People would swear that they love one and hate the other, and I would just think "They're almost exactly the same thing!"

562 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:50:49pm

re: #558 NJDhockeyfan

Central Virginia. Not really an area known for it's outstanding restaurants. There are a couple though, Guadalajara Mexican Restaurant in Charlottesville is fantastic and the Edelweiss Restaurant in Staunton, my favorite one. Great German food is hard to find. The Edelweiss is amazing.

in the bay area we have the speisekammer in alameda. great german food, great bar, and whoever arranges the live musical entertainment likes swing!

even lavay smith played there!

563 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:50:50pm

I'm out too.

Charles? Another waiting for the iPhone app...

btw, any Rome listeners? Today was epic, Henry Winkler, yeah the Fonz, talking major sports shit. I can't find it quickly, but you must listen.

564 jaunte  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:51:34pm

re: #551 BigPapa

The Spain episode is one of my favorites: especially the part where he goes to a restaurant in the hills where the cook over wood fire and he had the tiny eels (cooked over a wood fire).

I think with all the increased consciousness about food that we're going to improve a bit in that area:
[Link: www.lileks.com...]

565 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:53:02pm

re: #559 NJDhockeyfan

I've been here since 1990.

Wait a second, you mentioned the GW bridge and Summit a little while ago, and stopping for food... you mean SOuth jersey?

566 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:53:20pm

re: #551 BigPapa

The Spain episode is one of my favorites: especially the part where he goes to a restaurant in the hills where the cook over wood fire and he had the tiny eels (cooked over a wood fire).

That was insane! I never seen anything like it. That guy built those stoves & grills himself. Fucking incredible and the food was even more amazing. I told my wife we must visit Spain.

567 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:55:32pm

re: #535 austin_blue

Then what you are going to do about it?

I'm going to fund sane candidates if I can and hope they can provide a counterweight.

568 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:56:45pm

re: #560 Cato the Elder

GOP.

Win in the short term, lose in the long.

Demographics.

That is all.

i have an idea that if they take the house this year that it will aggravate and accelerate the split between the regular republicans and the teabaggers since the baggers will inevitably be frustrated with what they do

569 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:56:55pm

re: #558 NJDhockeyfan

Central Virginia. Not really an area known for it's outstanding restaurants. There are a couple though, Guadalajara Mexican Restaurant in Charlottesville is fantastic and the Edelweiss Restaurant in Staunton, my favorite one. Great German food is hard to find. The Edelweiss is amazing.

Chicago also has a restaurant called Edelweiss, on Irving Park Road. It's a very good Bavarian place.

570 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:58:11pm

re: #565 Walter L. Newton

Wait a second, you mentioned the GW bridge and Summit a little while ago, and stopping for food... you mean SOuth jersey?

No, I was born in Summit. My mom lives in Springfield and I go up there whenever I can. I miss the food but the taxes up there are outrageous. I will stay down here. Whenever I leave my mom's house to go home I hit the Summit bakery on the way out. I stuff my freezer with bread when I get home. They make wonderful pastries & cakes too. There is nothing even close to that down here.

571 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:59:35pm

re: #566 NJDhockeyfan

That was insane! I never seen anything like it. That guy built those stoves & grills himself. Fucking incredible and the food was even more amazing. I told my wife we must visit Spain.

I've had an affair with Spain for a while so that No Reservations episode got me all jacked up. It did not let me down. Andalucia and sherry tasting is on my Big List.

My avatar is me cooking an authentic paella: it's also in the Lizard Cookbook 2.

572 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:59:35pm

re: #568 engineer dog

i have an idea that if they take the house this year that it will aggravate and accelerate the split between the regular republicans and the teabaggers since the baggers will inevitably be frustrated with what they do

I think there's something to that. The Tea Party crowd will want a total war over the budget, the GOP will not oblige them. the TP crowd will hear "Sorry, but we have to pass a budget and that meant giving Obama something." and they'll feel betrayed when they hear it. Won't be true, of course, since the budget really will have had to be passed.

573 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 9:59:53pm

Bleh. MTV music awards. Too funny.

574 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:00:05pm

re: #570 NJDhockeyfan

No, I was born in Summit. My mom lives in Springfield and I go up there whenever I can. I miss the food but the taxes up there are outrageous. I will stay down here. Whenever I leave my mom's house to go home I hit the Summit bakery on the way out. I stuff my freezer with bread when I get home. They make wonderful pastries & cakes too. There is nothing even close to that down here.

General area... where is "down here."

575 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:01:48pm

re: #569 Dark_Falcon

Chicago also has a restaurant called Edelweiss, on Irving Park Road. It's a very good Bavarian place.

When I lived in Johnstown, PA back in the late 70s my mom and I would have lunch at a good German restaurant down the street. I think it was called The Hofbräu.

576 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:02:23pm

All this food talk, time to eat dinner!

577 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:02:43pm

re: #571 BigPapa

I've had an affair with Spain for a while so that No Reservations episode got me all jacked up. It did not let me down. Andalucia and sherry tasting is on my Big List.

My avatar is me cooking an authentic paella: it's also in the Lizard Cookbook 2.

That looks damn good. Yum!

578 Jadespring  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:03:33pm

re: #566 NJDhockeyfan

That was insane! I never seen anything like it. That guy built those stoves & grills himself. Fucking incredible and the food was even more amazing. I told my wife we must visit Spain.

Now I'm going to have to watch it. I spent 3 weeks once, cooking for over 50 people only with a wood fire in a big double barrel grill thing. It was really learn as you go type situation. I figured out how to cook pretty much anything. I even managed eggs bennie one morning with hollandaise made from scratch. I like to brag about that accomplishment. LOL

579 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:04:52pm

re: #574 Walter L. Newton

General area... where is "down here."

Right outside Charlottesville, Va. It's a college town so I wouldn't expect much effort to bring in great restaurants.

580 Gus  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:07:42pm

Can't keep my eyes open.

Good night.

581 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:10:08pm

I'm heading to bed. Goodnight, all.

582 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 10:17:42pm

re: #578 Jadespring

Now I'm going to have to watch it. I spent 3 weeks once, cooking for over 50 people only with a wood fire in a big double barrel grill thing. It was really learn as you go type situation. I figured out how to cook pretty much anything. I even managed eggs bennie one morning with hollandaise made from scratch. I like to brag about that accomplishment. LOL

Check this out.

583 Lidane  Mon, Sep 13, 2010 11:06:54pm

re: #572 Dark_Falcon

I think there's something to that. The Tea Party crowd will want a total war over the budget, the GOP will not oblige them. the TP crowd will hear "Sorry, but we have to pass a budget and that meant giving Obama something." and they'll feel betrayed when they hear it. Won't be true, of course, since the budget really will have had to be passed.

Not only that, but the crazier, nirther-type teabaggers will want to waste time with investigations of Obama and attempts at impeachment, which the GOP leadership will hopefully kill before they ever get off the ground. Expect lots of whining about "truth" being "silenced" and about the RINOs in the House being part of the conspiracy to keep the Seekrit Mooslim Overlord in office against the will of the American people.

584 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 12:56:05am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Quinn has openly pushed for an increase in the state income tax. That blackballs a candidate in the eyes of me and my extended family. We'd all prefer budget-cutting and a candidate not in thrall to the Dem Machine.

Illinois' state income tax (IIRC, basically 3.4% of adjusted gross income) is very reasonable as such things go. A small increase won't really hurt you. The problem for Quinn is that it's a non-progressive tax, which kind of goes against Dem party politics.

re: #17 brookly red

New Jersey was kicked out of the union...

I thought the unions already owned New Jersey.

re: #66 Dark_Falcon

Since we had a flouncer downstairs, I've got the grill out and we'll have a Troll-B-Q in 30 minutes.

Dibs on the bones. I haven't made troll soup in a while.

re: #115 brookly red

I have said it here a hundred times, the GOP will run someone we have never heard of at this point...

I don't doubt it. Think of the money you could have made in 2006 betting on Barack Obama as the Democratic nominee.

My roster when it comes to voting for potential Republican nominees--

Palin--hell no
Gingrich--f*** no
Huckabee--no
Bloomberg (as if one of them New Yawk Joos could get the nomination)--hell yes
Romney--maybe
Jindal--no
Pawlenty--probably not
Christie--don't know, need to see how he does in Joisey

585 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 1:01:04am

re: #127 calochortus

And speaking of California, does anyone have an idea who would be a better governor-Whitman or Brown? I think its one of the worst choices we've ever had.

This is the same Jerry Brown who was "Governor Moonbeam" in the Seventies? If so, having observed his first rodeo and subsequent career, I think perhaps he's ready to sit at the grown-ups table this time.

586 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 1:04:25am

re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

These folks drive me nuts. They never give written notice of anything, they just call me at the last screaming minute.

Heh. My landlord is also a client, so he knows that if he ticks me off, he pays more for his taxes. As he puts it, "We can't fight. We each know where the other lives, and works."

And he gives everyone written notice whenever something that necessitates entry into the apartments happens. As landlords go, he's great.

587 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 1:10:41am

re: #212 reine.de.tout

Well, yes.
But I wasn't paying attention to the Dem 1988 convention (or the R one either, to tell the truth).

I was a political convention junkie until 1984, when one of the talking heads used the phrase "pre-planned spontaneous demonstration". That stopped me completely until 2004, when I started watching the acceptance speeches plus some special appearances (like Teddy Kennedy in 2008).

588 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 1:27:19am

re: #339 Killgore Trout

Weiner: The Gentleman is correct in sitting...

[Video]
That's the way you do it.

My representative doesn't have 1% of the balls that Mr. Weiner has. I admire such passion, especially in a clear and obvious case such as this. I'd admire it even if I disagreed with the bill in question.

If my rep had some passion and courage, I could see voting for him again (I voted for him in 2008 in order to get rid of the Republican hack we had before). Hell, if he had ANY, I'd vote for him again.

589 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 1:38:06am

re: #487 Cannadian Club Akbar

Are his daughters the whores on TV?

Yes. He is/was a publicity whore, they're just whores with tight clothes and tons of makeup.

590 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 1:40:55am

re: #512 Dark_Falcon

If you have one near where you live, try Qdoba Mexican Grill. t's a chain, but quite good.

We have several of them around here. Definitely a step above fast food "Mexican".

591 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 1:50:06am

re: #583 Lidane

Not only that, but the crazier, nirther-type teabaggers will want to waste time with investigations of Obama and attempts at impeachment, which the GOP leadership will hopefully kill before they ever get off the ground. Expect lots of whining about "truth" being "silenced" and about the RINOs in the House being part of the conspiracy to keep the Seekrit Mooslim Overlord in office against the will of the American people.

Those GOP incumbents who are smarter than the TPers (meaning almost all the incumbents) will run rings around their juniors with procedure. Just try to get anything out of committee if the senior Republican thinks you're a f***ing loon, especially after you start calling him/her a RINO.

I can just see the Democrats thinking, "Maybe there IS something to this seniority thing."

592 Lidane  Tue, Sep 14, 2010 6:23:57am

re: #591 ClaudeMonet

Those GOP incumbents who are smarter than the TPers (meaning almost all the incumbents) will run rings around their juniors with procedure. Just try to get anything out of committee if the senior Republican thinks you're a f***ing loon, especially after you start calling him/her a RINO.

Heh, true.

Still, that won't stop the outrageous outrage as soon as senior GOP members start killing the more strident/idiotic things the teabaggers might try in committee.


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