Gabrielle Giffords Launches Effort to Fight Gun Violence and the Pro-Gun Lobby

Confronting the powerful gun lobby
Politics • Views: 25,056

Former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and her husband, astronaut Mark Kelly, are launching a new gun control initiative, specifically to counter the insidious efforts of the “ideological fringe” pro-gun lobby. Here’s their op-ed in USA Today: Giffords and Kelly: Fighting Gun Violence.

In response to a horrific series of shootings that has sown terror in our communities, victimized tens of thousands of Americans, and left one of its own bleeding and near death in a Tucson parking lot, Congress has done something quite extraordinary — nothing at all.

I was shot in the head while meeting with constituents two years ago today. Since then, my extensive rehabilitation has brought excitement and gratitude to our family. But time and time again, our joy has been diminished by new, all too familiar images of death on television: the breaking news alert, stunned witnesses blinking away tears over unspeakable carnage, another community in mourning. America has seen an astounding 11 mass shootings since a madman used a semiautomatic pistol with an extended ammunition clip to shoot me and kill six others. Gun violence kills more than 30,000 Americans annually.

This country is known for using its determination and ingenuity to solve problems, big and small. Wise policy has conquered disease, protected us from dangerous products and substances, and made transportation safer. But when it comes to protecting our communities from gun violence, we’re not even trying — and for the worst of reasons.

Read the whole thing.

And here’s the website Giffords and Kelly are launching today: Americans for Responsible Solutions.

It’s going to be interesting to see if the right wing attacks Giffords as viciously as usual, or if they’ll be embarrassed at all by the fact that her gun control positions derive from her personal experience as a victim of gun violence.

I predict the former. They’re going to be incredibly vicious. The American right wing has no shame about things like this.

And in fact, the attacks are already under way in the right wing blogosphere. If your stomach can handle it, check out the vile, sickening comments at wingnut site Weasel Zippers.

Jump to bottom

276 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:42:37am

It’s going to be vicious. I’m sure she knows what she’s getting into. Anyhow, I wish her the best of luck.

2 A Mom Anon  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:45:26am

She’s tough and so is her husband. I doubt they’ll let much of this get to them or let lies and bullshit go unchecked. I wish them well in this, it’s going to be uphill through deep mud to get anywhere.

3 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:48:57am

Theyre getting my money and possibly my application

4 Tigger2005  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:49:02am

My stomach can handle the Evil Dead red band trailer, but not that.

5 Interesting Times  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:49:07am

FALSE FLAG!!!11!! She had herself shot just so she could grab gunz from 2nd Amendment Patriots™ like Alex Jones!!!11!

some wingnut somewhere has said this without irony, I just know it :(

6 bratwurst  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:49:24am

I think that if she can survive the bullets of a madman in her brain, she can survive an online onslaught of right wing nitwits.

7 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:50:26am

Gun control? why do they hate our military?

8 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:50:51am

From Weasel Zippers:

You would think after she was shot in the head, she would have learned a thing or two.

[…]

Any lingering sympathy I had for this freedom-hating Statist and her repulsive, opportunistic husband has vanished.

Go fuck yourself, Gabby. And the same goes for your piece of shit husband.

[…]

Go fuck yourself Gabby.

[…]

Your still not getting “MY GUNS.”

[…]

Gabby, in the time it takes to read this article, another fetus has been sucked out of its mother’s womb. How about we work on that first?

[…]

The gun grabbers took advantage of someone with brain damage.

[…]

Once a liberal always a liberal. It’s really quite disgusting to see this person use her own personal tragedy to further a progressive political agenda. Would anyone have expected anything different? She is making herself the Sandra Fluke of the anti-gun crowd, aka a fool.

[…]

Revelations 13:3

I saw that one of the heads of the beast seemed wounded beyond recovery—but the fatal wound was healed! The whole world marveled at this miracle and gave allegiance to the beast.

Sick, sick people.

9 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:51:00am

re: #4 Tigger2005

My stomach can handle the Evil Dead red band trailer, but not that.

That bad?

10 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:51:13am

‘Americans for Responsible Solutions’ is really another in a long line of political advocacy organization names that doesn’t really mean anything at all. I hope their work is better than their naming.

11 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:51:19am

This Tweet is disgusting and sick. Not embedding, click at your own risk.

12 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:52:05am

That’s right, one of those freaks is suggesting that Gabrielle Giffords is the Antichrist.

13 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:52:15am

re: #8 Charles Johnson

From Weasel Zippers:

Sick, sick people.

It’s to be expected sadly. Missed the Anti-Christ thing. Sheesh.

14 Tigger2005  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:53:03am

re: #9 Kragar

That bad?

I don’t have to look to know.

15 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:53:38am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

That’s right, one of those freaks is suggesting that Gabrielle Giffords is the Antichrist.

If I had a nickle for every antichrist the right wing has dreamed up, I’d… I dunno, I still probably couldn’t buy enough bath salts to make their ideas make any sense.

16 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:53:44am

This is turning out to be a positive thing: she is bringing all the vomit to the surface like a good emetic…

And the GOP gun supporters will have to either stand proudly in this pool of fetid puke or distance themselves from it.

17 Interesting Times  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:54:01am

re: #11 Vicious Babushka

This Tweet is disgusting and sick. Not embedding, click at your own risk.

Typical member of the GOP base.

18 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:54:21am

re: #8 Charles Johnson

From Weasel Zippers:

You would think after she was shot in the head, she would have learned a thing or two.

She did learn something. She used to be an advocate for the rights of gun owners.

19 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:54:50am

re: #15 erik_t

When your only tool is a Bible, every problem looks like an Antichrist.

20 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:55:32am

re: #19 Charles Johnson

When your only tool is a Bible, every problem looks like an Antichrist.

On the contrary, I’d say that there are many millions of tools in the modern right wing.

/

21 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:55:41am

What the hell do they expect her to do? If I got shot by a deranged gunman who was able to possess a deadly weapon, I’d fight tooth and nail to prevent the easy access of guns too. It’s not about politicizing her tragedy assholes, it’s about preventing future tragedies. But please do tell us how “ping pongs” and credit cards are more or as dangerous as guns. A gun has only one purpose- to maim and kill. So you can take that comparison of guns to vehicles and shut up.

22 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:55:47am
It’s going to be interesting to see if the right wing attacks Giffords as viciously as usual…

I suspect we have not even begun to see the level of vitriol that will pour out against them. The gun and bullet industrial complex has gone almost unchallenged for the past decade. The birther and teabag party movements have been merely sideshows compared to the John Birch society’s attempt to raise itself from the dead and remake America in its own outdated image.

23 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:56:10am

Playing the part of Jesus in Wingnutland today, Kharn the Betrayer

Image: Kharn_victory.jpg

24 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:56:26am

re: #19 Charles Johnson

When your only tool is a Bible, every problem looks like an Antichrist.

Not every bible contains the acid-trip book of Revelation.

25 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:57:30am
Go fuck yourself, Gabby. And the same goes for your piece of shit husband.

Ah, the religious Christian conservative community has made its voice heard.

26 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:57:32am

Really, we live in a society where large chunks of people would rather blame video games, books, or films because they’re too afraid to question how paranoid they are about guns. Then candidate Obama was absolutely right, people do cling to their guns because of bitterness. It may have come across as a snobby comment but I think he was absolutely right.

27 jaunte  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:57:40am

Weasel Zippers:

Bill Scalzo • 3 hours ago
Any lingering sympathy I had for this freedom-hating Statist and her repulsive, opportunistic husband has vanished.
Go fuck yourself, Gabby. And the same goes for your piece of shit husband.

Of course they won’t respect an elected Rep if she’s a Democrat, but when did astronauts become lesser beings to conservatives?

28 Interesting Times  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:59:07am

re: #27 jaunte

Of course they won’t respect an elected Rep if she’s a Democrat, but when did astronauts become lesser beings to conservatives?

When they’re married to anyone not a wingnut.

29 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:59:07am

re: #27 jaunte

Weasel Zippers:

Of course they won’t respect an elected Rep if she’s a Democrat, but when did astronauts become lesser beings to conservatives?

When they dare voice an opinion they don’t agree with.

30 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:59:08am

re: #27 jaunte

Weasel Zippers:

Of course they won’t respect an elected Rep if she’s a Democrat, but when did astronauts become lesser beings to conservatives?

When they marry Democrats, I guess…

31 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:59:19am

Yes I know it is really shocking that victims of random gun violence and mass shootings would be for gun control. ////

32 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 11:59:25am

re: #27 jaunte

Any non-conservative, or perceived non-conservative is a lesser being to some conservatives.

33 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:00:01pm

Your Amazon.com order of “A Memory of Light” has shipped!‏

THE END IS NEAR!

34 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:01:51pm

re: #31 Petero1818

Yes I know it is really shocking that victims of random gun violence and mass shootings would be for gun control. ////

Let’s hope it doesn’t take that much for a few more conversions.

35 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:02:10pm

re: #27 jaunte

Weasel Zippers:

Of course they won’t respect an elected Rep if she’s a Democrat, but when did astronauts become lesser beings to conservatives?

Captain Mark Kelly, US Navy

EXPERIENCE: In December 1987, Kelly became a naval aviator and received initial training on the A-6E Intruder attack aircraft. He was then assigned to VA-115 (Attack Squadron 115) in Atsugi, Japan, and made two deployments to the Persian Gulf on the aircraft carrier USS Midway, flying 39 combat missions in Operation Desert Storm. After receiving his master’s degree, he attended the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School from June 1993 to June 1994. He has logged more than 5,000 hours in more than 50 different aircraft and has over 375 carrier landings.

At this time, Kelly remains on active duty. He is on loan to NASA and holds the rank of Captain in the U.S. Navy.

On Tuesday, June 21, 2011, Kelly announced his retirement from the U.S. Navy, and NASA, effective October 1, 2011…

Kelly traveled over 5.28 million miles and orbited the Earth 202 times over 12 days and 18+ hours…

36 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:02:41pm

re: #35 Gus

Captain Mark Kelly, US Navy

Fucking hippy.
///

37 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:03:53pm

re: #35 Gus

Captain Mark Kelly, US Navy

His life and future changed almost as much as Gabby’s on that day two years ago. I have all the respect in the world for what he’s chosen to do with that.

38 jaunte  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:04:21pm

re: #35 Gus

He has logged more than 5,000 hours in more than 50 different aircraft and has over 375 carrier landings.

Obviously he took a lot more opportunities than ‘Bill Scalzo.’

39 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:06:17pm

re: #34 wrenchwench

Let’s hope it doesn’t take that much for a few more conversions.

Regrettably it will take more in order for sanity to prevail. It appears to me that the shock has passed and I do not sense any urgency in this fight amongst average folks and moderates. Plenty on the extremes of both sides. But success in challenging the NRA will require the average folks out there, Dem, Rep, Ind alike need to find some common ground here. Otherwise this will be merely one more wedge btw red and blue states and I suspect nothing will get done legislatively.

40 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:07:11pm

Didn’t anyone tell Mark Kelly that in order to be a real American, you need to not bathe and shit all over yourself to dodge the draft?

41 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:07:49pm

re: #40 Kragar

Didn’t anyone tell Mark Kelly that in order to be a real American, you need to not bathe and shit all over yourself to dodge the draft?

Also telling the president to suck his gun applies too.

42 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:08:07pm

re: #38 jaunte

Obviously he took a lot more opportunities than ‘Bill Scalzo.’

Mark Kelly has more balls then all of Weasel Zippers’ membership combined.

43 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:09:23pm

What I find really sad honestly is that a lot of people seem to value guns more so than people. I understand why people want to have a firearm for protection. I don’t understand those who could be labeled hoarders but I do understand why someone would want to own a gun. What I don’t understand is the outright hate directed at anyone who wants to reduce easy access of these things. It shouldn’t be easier to get a gun than a vehicle. I’m sorry. It just shouldn’t.

44 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:09:50pm

re: #42 Gus

Mark Kelly has more balls then all of Weasel Zippers’ membership combined.

Technically he has infinite more since 2 is infinity more than 0.

45 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:11:38pm

re: #20 erik_t

On the contrary, I’d say that there are many millions of tools in the modern right wing.

/

But they’re all wedges.

46 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:12:24pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

Your statement is excessively thoughtful and insufficiently reactionary.

Honestly, these people do not think about things in a reflective and considered manner. They might have thought, once, a long time ago, but everything since then has been rote defense of their positions.

Think about all of the references we’ve seen to D_F’s ‘team’ and ‘winning’ and such. It’s not arbitrary language; it’s the basis of their interaction with the world.

47 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:13:13pm

You know its hot when they need to add new colors on heat maps.

Off-The-Charts Heat Wave Brings Australia Its Hottest Average Temperature And New Map Colors For Temps Above 122°F!

The Bureau of Meteorology’s interactive weather forecasting chart has added new colours – deep purple and pink – to extend its previous temperature range that had been capped at 50 degrees [122°F].

Many parts of the country have already set local records with temperatures as high as 118°F. It remains to be seen whether temperatures blow past 122°F [50C] – or already have (“large parts of central Australia have limited monitoring”).

48 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:13:40pm

Newtown Politician to Gabby Giffords: ‘Stay Out of My Towns!!’ [Updated]

Connecticut legislator DebraLee Hovey, a six-term Republican state representative for the towns of Monroe and Newtown, had some candid, if ill-advised words for Gabrielle Giffords, who visited with victims of the Sandy Hook shooting on Friday. “Gabby Gifford [sic] stay out of my towns!!” Hovey wrote on her then-public Facebook, via mobile from Saint Pete Beach, Florida. “It was political,” she elaborated in the comments, according to cringey screenshots obtained by the Hartford Courant.

“The Lt Gov was there […] and ALL political types KNOW it is courteous to let sitting Reps known when another political [sic] is in their District,” Hovey went on. “So……. There was pure political motives.” (The visit, while “low-key” and without press, was reported in advance.)

Hovey’s spokesman Jamison Bazinet confirmed to Intelligencer that the statuses were indeed legitimate and have since been deleted. Hovey’s profile has also been switched to private, he said. Bazinet would not comment on why the update was removed, but said Representative Hovey expects to release a statement on the matter this afternoon.

[…]

The apology in the update is of the ‘if I offended anyone’ variety.

49 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:15:22pm

re: #48 wrenchwench

Newtown Politician to Gabby Giffords: ‘Stay Out of My Towns!!’ [Updated]

The apology in the update is of the ‘if I offended anyone’ variety.

How many of the victims families did this witch meet with?

50 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:16:21pm

re: #48 wrenchwench

Newtown Politician to Gabby Giffords: ‘Stay Out of My Towns!!’ [Updated]

The apology in the update is of the ‘if I offended anyone’ variety.

That’s some Pam-level drunk posting right there.

51 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:16:34pm

More military news. ;)

52 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:16:40pm

re: #48 wrenchwench

It’s sad to see that not even the mass murder of 20 children in one’s own legislative district could modify this gun advocate’s lawmaker’s apparently usual sensitivities.

53 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:18:29pm
54 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:19:00pm
“So……. There was pure political motives.”

What is this supposed to mean? Are we to suppose that the legislator has no political motives and that the gun industry has no political motives? This sort of disparagement is really strange to me.

55 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:19:19pm

Where was the anger when LaPierre tried to blame the tragedy on films released when the shooter was 4-5 years old? Really blaming the shootings on American Psycho and Natural Born Killers makes less sense than blaming the shooting on easy access to guns but hey hating anyone who questions the gun culture takes precedence over questioning the moronic organization that is the NRA.

56 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:20:43pm

Courtesy of a FOIA, here’s a list of all the gun owners in NYC. And NY Penal Law explicitly states that the name and address of gun owners is a public record.

It took 2 years for the records to be made available, and I still think that efforts to shield this information from public view will gain more traction/get passed before any kind of effort to strengthen the review of potential of firearms registrations, close loopholes, or restrict firearms in any fashion.

57 efuseakay  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:20:52pm

Too bad nobody in the nightly news world dare post up these comments against her right on the televisions of millions of Americans across the country. That would certainly be quite a wake-up call, and get some much needed attention where it needs to be.

58 Destro  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:21:21pm

re: #55 HappyWarrior

Where was the anger when LaPierre tried to blame the tragedy on films released when the shooter was 4-5 years old? Really blaming the shootings on American Psycho and Natural Born Killers makes less sense than blaming the shooting on easy access to guns but hey hating anyone who questions the gun culture takes precedence over questioning the moronic organization that is the NRA.

I blame John Wayne movies…..or any movies that star Republican politics leaning actors who shoot at people.

59 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:21:53pm

re: #54 Bulworth

What is this supposed to mean? Are we to suppose that the legislator has no political motives and that the gun industry has no political motives? This sort of disparagement is really strange to me.

Exactly. Giffords hold no office now, and this woman does, yet it’s Giffords’s motives we’re supposed to question.

60 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:21:58pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

What I find really sad honestly is that a lot of people seem to value guns more so than people. I understand why people want to have a firearm for protection. I don’t understand those who could be labeled hoarders but I do understand why someone would want to own a gun. What I don’t understand is the outright hate directed at anyone who wants to reduce easy access of these things. It shouldn’t be easier to get a gun than a vehicle. I’m sorry. It just shouldn’t.

I mostly agree. But it is not easier than a car. I can buy a used car and register it without any background check. I do not have to be licensed to drive to own the car. I can buy a new car-No background check. I can buy a car that goes 200 mph. Nobody checks my record. Legally-Felons can buy cars. Not guns.

61 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:22:30pm

re: #58 Destro

I blame John Wayne movies…..or any movies that star Republican politics leaning actors who shoot at people.

Die Hard!

62 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:23:08pm

re: #35 Gus

Captain Mark Kelly, US Navy

Man is a hero, full stop. So is his wife. Any words that denigrate these two paragons should earn somebody an immediate one-way ticket to hell (I’m not a believer, but for now, I’ll make an exception).

63 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:23:25pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

I mostly agree. But it is not easier than a car. I can buy a used car and register it without any background check. I do not have to be licensed to drive to own the car. I can buy a new car-No background check. I can buy a car that goes 200 mph. Nobody checks my record. Legally-Felons can buy cars. Not guns.

Fair enough.

64 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:23:27pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

I mostly agree. But it is not easier than a car. I can buy a used car and register it without any background check. I do not have to be licensed to drive to own the car. I can buy a new car-No background check. I can buy a car that goes 200 mph. Nobody checks my record. Legally-Felons can buy cars. Not guns.

I’ve never bought a firearm, so I speak out of uncertainty. Aren’t all of these caveats (edit: aside from the felon-purchase part) true of gun-show purchases?

So it’s as easy to buy as a car, but easier to use legally than a car.

65 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:24:18pm

re: #24 Vicious Babushka

Not every bible contains the acid-trip book of Revelation.

And many of those that do are owned by people who understand that his rant was against Rome not some mysterious future.

66 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:24:30pm

re: #64 erik_t

I’ve never bought a firearm, so I speak out of uncertainty. Aren’t all of these caveats true of gun-show purchases?

So it’s as easy to buy as a car, but easier to use legally than a car.

It may depend on the state. From what I understand about Virginia gun laws, it’s really easy to buy a gun here. That’s a big part of the reason why CHo(The VA Tech shooter) was able to get quick access to the gun he used on those people in Blacksburg.

67 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:25:10pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

But there’s at least a record that you own a car. Some gun advocates seem to think that their mere owning of a gun is information that no official should have. At least that seemed to be one of the complaints in the recent viral “email from a marine” that was apparently sent to Senator Feinstein.

68 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:25:42pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Die Hard!

The Gauntlet. Defend the right of police to shoot lots of holes in buses that fail to obey traffic restrictions!
;p

69 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:26:55pm

re: #67 Bulworth

But there’s at least a record that you own a car. Some gun advocates seem to think that their mere owning of a gun is information that no official should have. At least that seemed to be one of the complaints in the recent viral “email from a marine” that was apparently sent to Senator Feinstein.

Right, you suggest that we have a gun registry, you get accusations that their rights are being trampled on. An irony given that many of these same people want to publicize the names of those who get abortions. We have a record of vehicles for police and other law enforcement to check. I really don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that we have the same for guns. I think it would help solve a lot of crimes honestly.

70 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:26:59pm

From the first link at the top:

Forget the boogeyman of big, bad government coming to dispossess you of your firearms. As a Western woman and a Persian Gulf War combat veteran who have exercised our Second Amendment rights, we don’t want to take away your guns any more than we want to give up the two guns we have locked in a safe at home. What we do want is what the majority of NRA members and other Americans want: responsible changes in our laws to require responsible gun ownership and reduce gun violence.

We saw from the NRA leadership’s defiant and unsympathetic response to the Newtown, Conn., massacre that winning even the most common-sense reforms will require a fight.

[…]

Emphasis added. And it will be totally ignored by wingnuts and Weasel Zippers commenters (who rank somewhere below wingnuts).

71 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:28:03pm

re: #70 wrenchwench

From the first link at the top:

Emphasis added. And it will be totally ignored by wingnuts and Weasel Zippers commenters (who rank somewhere below wingnuts).

Responsible gun ownership? Why have that when we can blame anything but guns.

72 allegro  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:28:49pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

I mostly agree. But it is not easier than a car. I can buy a used car and register it without any background check. I do not have to be licensed to drive to own the car. I can buy a new car-No background check. I can buy a car that goes 200 mph. Nobody checks my record. Legally-Felons can buy cars. Not guns.

You do, indeed, have to be licensed to drive a car whether you own it or not. To get that license, you must pass written and driving tests and must maintain that license by renewing it yearly. Your car must be registered and licensed yearly and in most states (all now?) it must be annually inspected for proper performance. By law, your car must be minimally insured to at least protect others from your misuse of the vehicle or accidents.

Yeah, getting/owing a gun is considerably easier than a car.

73 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:29:46pm

re: #70 wrenchwench

From the first link at the top:

Emphasis added. And it will be totally ignored by wingnuts and Weasel Zippers commenters (who rank somewhere below wingnuts).

Hey. Who said anything about reading?

//

74 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:29:55pm
By law, your car must be minimally insured to at least protect others from your misuse of the vehicle or accidents.

But no such requirements are made of guns or gun owners.

75 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:31:37pm

OT, reviewing some resumes at work today for a [POSITION REDACTED]. Someone apparently has experience in, I shit you not, ‘qualiity assurance’.

76 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:31:58pm

re: #71 HappyWarrior

Responsible gun ownership? Why have that when we can blame anything but guns.

Gabby should have had her sidearm on her when she went to meet her constituents at the Safeway!!!!! And those kids in that school should have been armed, or at least the teachers and the principal!!! And you should never go to a Batman movie without a gun!!!! Or Christmas shopping!!!!!

77 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:32:25pm

Job interview tomorrow with the library. Part time only but something as I look for full time work.

78 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:32:32pm
79 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:33:36pm

SOME WORLD CLASS DERP

#WhyGunsAreBetterThanLiberals

80 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:33:41pm

re: #72 allegro

You do, indeed, have to be licensed to drive a car whether you own it or not. To get that license, you must pass written and driving tests and must maintain that license by renewing it yearly. Your car must be registered and licensed yearly and in most states (all now?) it must be annually inspected for proper performance. By law, your car must be minimally insured to at least protect others from your misuse of the vehicle or accidents.

Yeah, getting/owing a gun is considerably easier than a car.

No, not in Wisconsin. Perhaps your state requires that of cars, but not here. The only thing I _have_ to do to _own_ a car legally is transfer the title. I do not even need a drivers license so long as I am on property I own.

81 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:34:06pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

I mostly agree. But it is not easier than a car. I can buy a used car and register it without any background check. I do not have to be licensed to drive to own the car. I can buy a new car-No background check. I can buy a car that goes 200 mph. Nobody checks my record. Legally-Felons can buy cars. Not guns.

That didn’t stop the guy in upstate NY from getting a Bushmaster rifle and gunning down 2 firefighters and injuring a few more. And he was a convicted murderer on parole.

82 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:34:42pm

re: #79 Vicious Babushka

SOME WORLD CLASS DERP
#WhyGunsAreBetterThanLiberals

Again they prefer guns to people. That’s sad.

83 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:35:07pm

re: #78 Gus

Any gun. Of whatever power or lethality.

84 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:36:00pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

That’s just so wrong that I’m going to assume you haven’t put much thought into your reply— the burdens & barriers of owning and operating most vehicles in all states are much higher than firearm ownership.

85 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:37:26pm

re: #79 Vicious Babushka

SOME WORLD CLASS DERP

#WhyGunsAreBetterThanLiberals

Let’s see….

* Guns don’t snore
* Guns never chew with their mouth open
* Guns use less closet space
* Guns never complain when you leave the seat up


Sounds like an iron-clad case to me.

86 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:38:34pm

re: #85 erik_t

Let’s see….

* Guns don’t snore
* Guns never chew with their mouth open
* Guns use less closet space
* Guns never complain when you leave the seat up

Sounds like an iron-clad case to me.

A good case against marrying a woman who snores.

87 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:38:56pm

re: #84 Randall Gross

That’s just so wrong that I’m going to assume you haven’t put much though into your reply— the burdens & barriers of owning and operating most vehicles in all states are much higher than firearm ownership.

Strictly speaking, he mentioned only purchases.

He is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

88 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:40:53pm

re: #64 erik_t

I’ve never bought a firearm, so I speak out of uncertainty. Aren’t all of these caveats (edit: aside from the felon-purchase part) true of gun-show purchases?

So it’s as easy to buy as a car, but easier to use legally than a car.

Depends where the show is. In California all transfers go through a licensed FFL. Doing that everywhere would be a great idea. There is a downside-To get a gun refinished or lifetime warranty repaired at the factory often triggers the whole process just as if you were a new buyer. B/G check and a ten (or 14) day hold to get a gun factory fixed. Maybe a tweak for that kind of thing would reduce resistance.

Easy to use is relative. As an instructor I taught one day safety & target shooting classes. It takes more than one day to learn to drive. The gun might be easier to shoot than a car to drive.

89 bratwurst  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:41:00pm

re: #79 Vicious Babushka

SOME WORLD CLASS DERP

#WhyGunsAreBetterThanLiberals

This was my contribution:

90 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:41:01pm
91 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:41:06pm

re: #86 Ghost of Tom Joad

A good case against marrying a woman who snores.

That’s why I married a gun.

92 allegro  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:41:07pm

re: #80 William Barnett-Lewis

No, not in Wisconsin. Perhaps your state requires that of cars, but not here. The only thing I _have_ to do to _own_ a car legally is transfer the title. I do not even need a drivers license so long as I am on property I own.

I suggest you look again.

In Wisconsin, you do have to register your car yearly. There are mandatory insurance requirements. Here are the inspection laws. Since those who own/drive cars generally do so on public roads, a drivers license is also required.

93 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:42:19pm

re: #87 erik_t

His nonsense about buying a car without ever operating it probably happens less than people buying guns without firing pins, which is what you should do if all you want is a show piece.

94 iossarian  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:42:26pm

re: #89 bratwurst

This was my contribution:

[Embedded content]

Guns can’t vote for the antichrist OBUMMER.

95 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:43:33pm

Too bad we can’t require gun owners to have insurance…

96 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:43:45pm

re: #88 Political Atheist

Depends where the show is. In California all transfers go through a licensed FFL. Doing that everywhere would be a great idea. There is a downside-To get a gun refinished or lifetime warranty repaired at the factory often triggers the whole process just as if you were a new buyer. B/G check and a ten (or 14) day hold to get a gun factory fixed. Maybe a tweak for that kind of thing would reduce resistance.

All of that sounds completely reasonable, presuming the weapon comes to the factory in operable condition (rather than using this as an end-around to weaponize a display item).

97 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:43:47pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

From Weasel Zippers:

Sick, sick people.

Gabby, in the time it takes to read this article, another fetus has been sucked out of its mother’s womb. How about we work on that first?

20 babies were ripped from their families arms in NewTown asshole so STFU.

98 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:45:04pm

re: #97 Tigger2

Gabby, in the time it takes to read this article, another fetus has been sucked out of its mother’s womb. How about we work on that first?

20 babies were ripped from their families arms in New Town asshole so STFU.

or how about they actually work on preventing the conditions that lead to women choosing to get abortions in the first place instead of calling rape victims whores and liars?

99 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:45:40pm

re: #97 Tigger2

Gabby, in the time it takes to read this article, another fetus has been sucked out of its mother’s womb. How about we work on that first?

I propose Congress not introduce a single bill or hold a single meeting related to deficit dumbassitude or Benghazi bullshit until all fetuses are safe.

/

100 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:45:52pm

re: #97 Tigger2

That’s the default position on this from gun owners. They automatically default to an argument that comes down to abortion kills more than firearms - so let’s make abortion illegal before anyone even considers gun control.

101 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:46:21pm

re: #92 allegro

I suggest you look again.

In Wisconsin, you do have to register your car yearly. There are mandatory insurance requirements. Here are the inspection laws. Since those who own/drive cars generally do so on public roads, a drivers license is also required.

Not to purchase or use it on your own property. Only when you drive it off of your own property do any of those laws come into effect.

102 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:47:05pm

McChrystal’s about to get their wrath too. Haven’t read the article but there’s a big article on Yahoo news about it.

103 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:47:42pm

re: #84 Randall Gross

That’s just so wrong that I’m going to assume you haven’t put much thought into your reply— the burdens & barriers of owning and operating most vehicles in all states are much higher than firearm ownership.

A nuance if you please-
The question was about the purchase, not the operation. “getting a gun vs getting a car.”

104 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:48:26pm

re: #100 lawhawk

That’s the default position on this from gun owners. They automatically default to an argument that comes down to abortion kills more than firearms - so let’s make abortion illegal before anyone even considers gun control.

The whole time they fight to stop abortions they keep fighting to restrict birth control, how stupid can these SOB be.

105 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:48:27pm

re: #101 William Barnett-Lewis

Not to purchase or use it on your own property. Only when you drive it off of your own property do any of those laws come into effect.

So that’s useful when comparing it to gun ownership and use on one’s own property.

106 allegro  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:48:38pm

re: #101 William Barnett-Lewis

Not to purchase or use it on your own property. Only when you drive it off of your own property do any of those laws come into effect.

Which I submit is a totally disingenuous and bullshit argument.

107 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:49:35pm

re: #103 Political Atheist

See my reply, how many people do you know who own guns without operating them?

108 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:49:52pm

re: #104 Tigger2

The whole time they fight to stop abortions they keep fighting to restrict birth control, how stupid can these SOB be.

That just shows that abortion isn’t their real concern. Control of women is. But it would be rather unpopular if they said that out loud.

109 bratwurst  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:49:55pm

re: #100 lawhawk

That’s the default position on this from gun owners. They automatically default to an argument that comes down to abortion kills more than firearms - so let’s make abortion illegal before anyone even considers gun control.

My favorite obfuscation in the past few weeks has been along the lines of:

You don’t know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic weapons, or the distinction between military weapons and civilian weapons, or how clips differ from magazines…so I don’t care what you think about guns at all!

110 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:51:59pm

re: #101 William Barnett-Lewis

Not to purchase or use it on your own property. Only when you drive it off of your own property do any of those laws come into effect.

No, sorry. If you operate it, whether on your property or not, the laws are in effect.

Run a thought experiment. You’re in your driveway. A visitor pulls in. You back up and run into the visitor’s vehicle, still in your own driveway. Can the officer charge you for operating an unregistered vehicle? answer: yes.

111 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:52:33pm

Back to the crazy people again:

Hey wingnuts, how would you deny crazy people their Constitutional Rights?

112 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:53:10pm

ahhh… the heady smell of piles of bullshit steaming in the late afternoon.

113 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:54:16pm

re: #110 kirkspencer

No, sorry. If you operate it, whether on your property or not, the laws are in effect.

Run a thought experiment. You’re in your driveway. A visitor pulls in. You back up and run into the visitor’s vehicle, still in your own driveway. Can the officer charge you for operating an unregistered vehicle? answer: yes.

If you get in the car while drunk in your driveway here in Kansas, you will be arrested. You don’t have to turn the key.

114 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:55:13pm

re: #111 Vicious Babushka

If we’re going to talk about only crazy people in dealing with firearms restrictions, how about addressing the fact that it was a crazy person who killed his mother to acquire the very weapons he used in the Newtown massacre before killing himself. The firearms that you claim make you safer were the very means of killing its owner before they were unleashed on the kindergarten class in Newtown.

W/o easy access to the firearms owned by his mother, the gunman in Newtown would have had a more difficult time acquiring the weapons.

115 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:55:15pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

I mostly agree. But it is not easier than a car. I can buy a used car and register it without any background check. I do not have to be licensed to drive to own the car. I can buy a new car-No background check. I can buy a car that goes 200 mph. Nobody checks my record. Legally-Felons can buy cars. Not guns.

If I buy a weapon from a neighbor, I do not have to register it nor do I have to have the background check. I can take that weapon to the local firing range (Texas) and use it, still without registering or background check. If an accident occurs, I will not face legal action for failing to register or getting the check — and neither will the neighbor who sold it to me.

If I buy a car from a neighbor I do have to register it. (Don’t need the background check). If I drive the car and have an accident I will face legal action for failing to register. Depending on the circumstances the neighbor who sold it to me may also face legal action.

116 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:55:25pm

re: #111 Vicious Babushka

Back to the crazy people again:

[Embedded content]

Hey wingnuts, how would you deny crazy people their Constitutional Rights?

It’s always “crazy” people. I’m sorry but while our mental health system needs to be improved. We can’t keep on dismissing all these murderers as “crazy people.” James Holmes was a medical student. And frankly as someone who could be defined as crazy in some corners, I really resent the scapegoating.

117 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:55:26pm

WhyGunsAreBetterThanLiberals

i guess all of those ‘why vibrators are better than men’ jokes could easily be recycled for this one

rush limbaugh has taught them that all important questions can be settled with wisecracks

118 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:55:39pm

Legislation that would prevent 2 citizens from privately transacting to sell one another lethal weapons that serve no practical purpose without waiting periods or background checks is an unacceptable limitation on freedom and liberty.

Legislation that would prevent 2 consenting adults from privately transacting to form a family unit capable or receiving tax treatment as one family or sharing insurance benefits or hospital visitation is worthy of constitutional protection.

Makes perfect sense to me???/// WTF

119 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:56:20pm

My favorite Huell Howser clip ever.

Youtube Video
120 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:56:53pm

…and it’s all steaming bullshit to make you believe that any further burdens to gun ownership and licensing, no matter how small, how light, is just too freaking much to bear for our second amendment warriors.

121 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:58:48pm

re: #114 lawhawk

If we’re going to talk about only crazy people in dealing with firearms restrictions, how about addressing the fact that it was a crazy person who killed his mother to acquire the very weapons he used in the Newtown massacre before killing himself. The firearms that you claim make you safer were the very means of killing its owner before they were unleashed on the kindergarten class in Newtown.

W/o easy access to the firearms owned by his mother, the gunman in Newtown would have had a more difficult time acquiring the weapons.

I always love the blindness of the crazy people argument.

So, we want to make sure crazy people can’t purchase the weapons? Great, this means we need: a) mandatory testing; b) a database; c) a requirement for all sellers that they check, with teeth for those who either don’t check or check and sell anyway.

Going to raise it a level and make sure crazy people not only can’t purchase but don’t have access? Now that (c) is everybody who owns gets bit by the teeth.

If you don’t, then all the demands that crazy people not get firearms don’t mean jack.

122 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:59:37pm

re: #115 kirkspencer

If an accident occurs, I will not face legal action for failing to register or getting the check — and neither will the neighbor who sold it to me.

no. But there are other laws you may have broken and could be charged with

Depending on the circumstances the neighbor who sold it to me may also face legal action
Unless he sold it to you with the knowledge that you were going to do something illegal with it, like smashing it into the front of a jewelry store for access/ robbery he would face no charges, and even at that, burden of proof would be tough

123 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 12:59:58pm

re: #116 HappyWarrior

It’s always “crazy” people. I’m sorry but while our mental health system needs to be improved. We can’t keep on dismissing all these murderers as “crazy people.” James Holmes was a medical student.

TO be clear it does appear that James Holmes was a very crazy medical student. But that is besides the point. Better healthcare? Absolutely. More comprehensive mental heath services? sure. Legislation that makes it easier to commit people deemed a danger? Why not. Gun control? Absolutely. These are not mutually exclusive. The reality is there will always be crazy people walking around, diagnosed and undiagnosed. Doesn’t mean that we should not make it more difficult for them to get firearms.

124 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:01:20pm

re: #116 HappyWarrior

It’s always “crazy” people. I’m sorry but while our mental health system needs to be improved. We can’t keep on dismissing all these murderers as “crazy people.” James Holmes was a medical student.

There are “crazy people” passing through every walk of life
being a “medical student” doesn’t make one immune

125 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:01:41pm

re: #123 Petero1818

TO be clear it does appear that James Holmes was a very crazy medical student. But that is besides the point. Better healthcare? Absolutely. More comprehensive mental heath services? sure. Legislation that makes it easier to commit people deemed a danger? Why not. Gun control? Absolutely. These are not mutually exclusive. The reality is there will always be crazy people walking around, diagnosed and undiagnosed. Doesn’t mean that we should not make it more difficult for them to get firearms.

No arguments here. I just resent the fact that it’s just reduced to “crazy people.”

126 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:01:41pm

When the “crazy people” argument fails, wingnuts fall back on their old standard MOAR GUNZ!1!

127 abolitionist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:01:48pm

Yesterday afternoon I heard about 20 gunshot-like sounds within a mile or so of my home, guessing from loudness and echo characteristics, over about a 20 minute period. From the timing of them, I’m guessing a gun battle of some sort. Can’t find word one about it in the local news.

128 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:02:32pm

re: #127 abolitionist

Yesterday afternoon I heard about 20 gunshot-like sounds within a mile or so of my home, guessing from loudness and echo characteristics, over about a 20 minute period. From the timing of them, I’m guessing a gun battle of some sort. Can’t find word one about it in the local news.

Or firecrackers.

129 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:02:43pm

re: #124 sattv4u2

There are “crazy people” passing through every walk of life
being a “medical student” doesn’t make one immune

Fair enough but my problem is with them simply being dismissed as “crazy people” as if every crazy person is capable or willing to pull an Aurora, Tucson, or Newtown. It’s the simplification of the issue that bothers me.

130 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:02:51pm

re: #128 kirkspencer

Or firecrackers.

construction

131 allegro  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:02:56pm

I would add that those who tweet about an upcoming civil war, second amendment solutions, and conspiracy nonsense while hoarding guns should be the first on the list to question their sanity and suitability as arms owners.

132 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:03:04pm

I’m watching the Alex Jones interview.

Holy shit this is insane.

133 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:03:29pm

re: #107 Randall Gross

See my reply, how many people do you know who own guns without operating them?

I get your reply, but it takes things further than the purchase. Certainly there are guns that are so rare they are not fired. I myself don’t equate public paid & built roads with privately owned and run shooting ranges. Annual car registration is just a tax. It has nothing to do with safety or knowing who owns the car.

Insurance might be a good idea, but we have no right to bear a car. Gets a little dicey in the law. Hunting of course does require a license, tags, and usually training like the Hunter Safety class.

134 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:04:00pm

re: #123 Petero1818

TO be clear it does appear that James Holmes was a very crazy medical student. But that is besides the point. Better healthcare? Absolutely. More comprehensive mental heath services? sure. Legislation that makes it easier to commit people deemed a danger? Why not. Gun control? Absolutely. These are not mutually exclusive. The reality is there will always be crazy people walking around, diagnosed and undiagnosed. Doesn’t mean that we should not make it more difficult for them to get firearms.

And people are also focusing way too much on the mass-murder stereotype and completely forgetting that gun-related crimes, especially murders, occur at a way, way higher rate, by people who most likely wouldn’t be labeled in any way as “crazy.” Just focusing on that aspect won’t do shit to prevent gun-related crime.

135 abolitionist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:04:46pm

re: #128 kirkspencer

Or firecrackers.

Yeah, that’s possible. Leftovers from New Years Eve.

136 iossarian  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:04:46pm

re: #133 Political Atheist

Insurance might be a good idea, but we have no right to bear a car.

I’m tired of this one-sided “rights” argument. I have a right that the militia be well-regulated. So regulate it already.

137 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:05:33pm

And if you’re so concerned about crazy people, let’s make a real effort at health care reform instead of freaking out about “government control.” If you’re so concerned about crazy people. Condemn bullying of all kinds instead of suggesting that it’s just kids being kids or that the kid is a wimp because the bullying effects his psyche. If you’re that concerned, try to find out why certain people tick. I think few if any people are actually born nuts. They become nuts. So in some perverse way, they are us and we are them.

138 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:05:47pm

re: #122 sattv4u2

If an accident occurs, I will not face legal action for failing to register or getting the check — and neither will the neighbor who sold it to me.

no. But there are other laws you may have broken and could be charged with

Such as? (Go ahead and use your state. I’m curious to see what laws you’re trying to spread this with.)

139 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:06:05pm

re: #136 iossarian

I’m tired of this one-sided “rights” argument. I have a right that the militia be well-regulated. So regulate it already.

Mandatory boot-camp :-)

140 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:06:35pm

re: #136 iossarian

I’m tired of this one-sided “rights” argument. I have a right that the militia be well-regulated. So regulate it already.

I’m still waiting for the “well regulated militia” to make an appearance.

141 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:06:36pm

In my state to operate a car you have to :

Have your eyesight tested periodically
take written proficiency tests periodically
take driving proficiency tests periodically
Have the car registered
have the car insured
pay ownership taxes annually
adhere to mounds of laws regulating vehicle & driving safety
keep the vehicle and safety mechanisms in operational state and repair they when the break or get a ticket
keep the vehicle’s pollution to a minimum (toxic lead concentrations— found downrange at every firing range.)
My license to operate can also be revoked if I drive drunk, or if I lack mental acuity.

142 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:06:43pm

Introspection over. Spiral ever inward! The old whites will continue to bring us victory.

The Iowa Republican [Steve King] is once again advocating to “clarify” the portion of the 14th Amendment that protects birthright citizenship. The Amendment states that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” King is not opposed to the Amendment on its face, but maintains that the framers did not account for illegal immigration.

143 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:07:07pm

re: #138 kirkspencer

Such as? (Go ahead and use your state. I’m curious to see what laws you’re trying to spread this with.)

Unlawful discharge of a firearm, for one

144 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:07:13pm

re: #115 kirkspencer

As I said, adding the FFL requirement is a good idea.

But with the gun you have instant check if you do buy new or through a dealer.

When is there ever a background check for a car or motorcycle?

145 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:07:29pm

re: #138 kirkspencer

Such as? (Go ahead and use your state. I’m curious to see what laws you’re trying to spread this with.)

Let me expand and clarify that. What laws might I have broken that will be specifically attributable to my purchase from a neighbor and failing to register or seek the background check — that would not be applicable had I registered the weapon?

146 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:07:38pm

in engineering, you test every proposed solution in as close to a real world situation as you can manage

we should reality-test the solutions from both sides of the fence:

1) “an armed society is a polite society” - fence off some state, like utah or someplace, posting a warning that everybody there is required to carry a firearm at all times. measure the change in the violence rate

2) establish another area where more restrictive gun regulations are enforced and measure the change in the violence rate there. of course, one could argue that such an experiment has already been underway for a while: it’s called “europe”

147 bratwurst  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:07:40pm

re: #140 Gus

I’m still waiting for the “well regulated militia” to make an appearance.

Give Sheriff Joe a few weeks!

148 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:08:00pm

re: #136 iossarian

I’m tired of this one-sided “rights” argument. I have a right that the militia be well-regulated. So regulate it already.

You don’t have that right. Please become familiar with the recent affirmation of the 2nd amendment, that leaves lots of room to regulate the guns available. The militia thing is out. Over with.

149 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:08:49pm

re: #142 erik_t

Introspection over. Spiral ever inward! The old whites will continue to bring us victory.

Isn’t he doing what right wingers accuse the left of doing all the time? He’s claiming that the framers of the amendment didn’t intend for it to be used on children of illegal immigrants. Note to Steve King, there were what could be called illegal immigrants in the 1860’s when the amendment was written. It was a time when some people were paranoid about Catholicism. If they were that concerned about birth right citizenship, they would have explicitly mentioned it.

150 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:09:09pm

re: #145 kirkspencer

Let me expand and clarify that. What laws might I have broken that will be specifically attributable to my purchase from a neighbor and failing to register or seek the background check — that would not be applicable had I registered the weapon?

carrying said weapon in public, concealed or not

151 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:09:12pm

re: #146 engineer cat

Pick the square states. They’re easier to fence in /George Carlin

152 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:09:15pm

re: #132 Four More Tears

I’m watching the Alex Jones interview.

Holy shit this is insane.

Epic meltdown on Jones’ part.

153 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:09:24pm

re: #146 engineer cat

You already answered your own question. Just compare Europe and America. There’s your experiment.

154 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:09:24pm

re: #133 Political Atheist

I get your reply, but it takes things further than the purchase. Certainly there are guns that are so rare they are not fired. I myself don’t equate public paid & built roads with privately owned and run shooting ranges. Annual car registration is just a tax. It has nothing to do with safety or knowing who owns the car.

Insurance might be a good idea, but we have no right to bear a car. Gets a little dicey in the law. Hunting of course does require a license, tags, and usually training like the Hunter Safety class.

Sorry none of that passes muster as good argument. See my comment about getting arrested for drunk driving in your driveway. Let’s invert your specious hypothetical, how many people do you know who have a car that has never and will never have it’s wheels on a public street?

155 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:09:44pm

re: #152 Dr Lizardo

Epic meltdown on Jones’ part.

In other words, it was nothing new but more people got to see it.

156 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:09:50pm

College Professor says Obama staged Sandyhook shootings using “crisis actors”

*facepalm*

157 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:10:44pm

re: #154 Randall Gross

Sorry none of that passes muster as good argument. See my comment about getting arrested for drunk driving in your driveway. Let’s invert your specious hypothetical, how many people do you know who have a car that has never and will never turn have it’s wheels on a public street?

My neighbors in upstate NY had a E-type jaguar that I think never made it. They couldn’t get/afford the parts to keep it operational.
// ;)

158 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:10:58pm

re: #151 lawhawk

Pick the square states. They’re easier to fence in /George Carlin

who cut that piece offa utah and done stole it?

159 iossarian  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:11:00pm

re: #148 Political Atheist

You don’t have that right.

I see. So basically - the hyper-right-wing interpretation of the constitution is the only valid one?

160 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:11:06pm

re: #156 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

College Professor says Obama staged Sandyhook shootings using “crisis actors”

What the fuck. Can’t even respond to how stupid and inane that is.

161 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:11:21pm

re: #151 lawhawk

Pick the square states. They’re easier to fence in /George Carlin

I always figured that by the time the surveyors got out west to determine state lines, they must have been tired from all the odd shapes east of the Mississippi and just said Fuggit ,,,, go straight for 300 miles,,,,take a 90 degree turn right ,, go straight for 300 miles,, take a 90 degree turn right,, go 300 miles ,,,,,,,

162 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:11:43pm

re: #157 Feline Fearless Leader

My neighbors in upstate NY had a E-type jaguar that I think never made it. They couldn’t get/afford the parts to keep it operational.
// ;)

The Prince of Darkness is not to be trifled with lightly.

163 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:11:45pm

re: #160 HappyWarrior

What the fuck. Can’t even respond to how stupid and inane that is.

not to mention just how sick and disrespecful of the families it is.

164 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:12:36pm

re: #156 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

College Professor says Obama staged Sandyhook shootings using “crisis actors”

*facepalm*

Yea, I posted that this morning WITH my own letter to him

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Dear professor Tracy,
On behalf of the people of Newtown Conn as well as children and parents everywhere, kindly GO FUCK YOURSELF

165 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:12:48pm

re: #155 HappyWarrior

In other words, it was nothing new but more people got to see it.

It’s made the news in the UK, owing to the fact that Piers Morgan did the interview. A lot of Brits seem…..surprised at the epic level of derp on display. I sent a link of the interview to one of my former students, who enjoys watching things like this. Her reaction: “Please tell me this man doesn’t have access to guns, because he’s a paranoid madman.”

166 allegro  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:13:08pm

During hurricane Ike, my dog and I spent the night at an area hotel for safety. At about 4am, during the height of the very violent storm, some asshole stood outside of my room and fired his handgun apparently until it was emptied. Shooting stopped for a while and there here he comes again - 3 times. What he was shooting at is a mystery. Freaked me out. I spent the rest of the night on the floor with my dog between the bed and the inside wall, more concerned about the jackass and his gun than the storm.

Someone (or several someones) called the police and they showed up, risking life and limb, as well as being unavailable for others who had true emergencies.

This is what I think of as soon as I hear talk about responsible gun owners.

167 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:13:25pm

Bryan Fischer Praises Scott Lively and Suggests his Critics are Satanically Inspired

American Family Association spokesman Bryan Fischer yesterday on Focal Point defended his close ally Scott Lively, downplaying his work shaping Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill and advocating for the imprisonment of gay people as simply giving “talks supporting natural marriage.” But Fischer, who shares Lively’s views on criminalizing LGBT status and blaming gays for the Holocaust, asserted that Lively “did the same kind of stuff over there that we do every day on Focal Point.”Fischer said the left seeks to “exterminate pro-family voices” and “want us to be destroyed,” which is interesting because the bill in Uganda makes the “promotion homosexuality” a crime.

168 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:13:45pm

re: #163 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

not to mention just how sick and disrespecful of the families it is.

Yeah, sorry Mr. and Mrs. so and so but your little child was just an actor.

169 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:14:47pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

Yea, I posted that this morning WITH my own letter to him

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Dear professor Tracy,
On behalf of the people of Newtown Conn as well as children and parents everywhere, kindly GO FUCK YOURSELF

Sometimes short and sweet works the best eh? Seriously what a fucking asshole.

170 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:14:55pm

SHART? Parody. mederp.
[Link: www.balloon-juice.com…]

171 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:14:58pm

re: #167 Kragar

Bryan Fischer Praises Scott Lively and Suggests his Critics are Satanically Inspired

BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA

172 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:16:30pm

re: #166 allegro

This is what I think of as soon as I hear talk about responsible gun owners.

He wasn’t one
Not every gun owner is
But many many more are

173 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:16:34pm

re: #171 erik_t

But Fischer, who shares Lively’s views on criminalizing LGBT status and blaming gays for the Holocaust, asserted that Lively “did the same kind of stuff over there that we do every day on Focal Point.”

The point, it was missed.

174 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:16:38pm

re: #136 iossarian

I’m tired of this one-sided “rights” argument. I have a right that the militia be well-regulated. So regulate it already.

The whole argument is bullshit I would say that most all of the gun owners including myself are in no way associated with or in any militia.

175 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:16:43pm

re: #153 Ghost of Tom Joad

You already answered your own question. Just compare Europe and America. There’s your experiment.

Standard wingnut response to any mention of Europe:

TEH HOLOCAUSTZ!1!

176 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:16:47pm

Heh Fischer’s turning more and more into “What if SNL’s Church Lady had a fraternal twin brother?” caricature every day. Yeah Lively’s critics are inspired by Satan not the repulsion at his promoting violence against people because of their sexuality.

177 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:17:25pm

re: #174 Tigger2

The whole argument is bullshit I would say that most all of the gun owners including myself is in no way associated with or in any militia.

Thats just cause you don’t want to go to the meetings and miss Dancing With Stars!!
///

178 allegro  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:17:36pm

re: #144 Political Atheist

When is there ever a background check for a car or motorcycle?

It’s called a drivers license. If one is unable to pass the written or driving test, no license. If one is convicted of driving drunk, violating operation laws, or having health issues that could prevent safe operation, that license is suspended or revocated.

179 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:18:13pm

re: #154 Randall Gross

Sorry none of that passes muster as good argument. See my comment about getting arrested for drunk driving in your driveway. Let’s invert your specious hypothetical, how many people do you know who have a car that has never and will never have it’s wheels on a public street?

Randall, please, the original question was about purchase. Operating in public vs operating in private matters. Of course we often operate cars a lot more than guns. I can buy a car that can triple the maximum speed limit. But we do agree capacity limits for guns are a good idea.

This is a dumb comparison anyway. Guns are so different than cars they should be regulated on their own, not by comparison to any device so unlike them. May as well compare to hot air balloons.

Added Edit
I am all for-
Background checks for all purchases. Restrictions of capacity. Restrictions for violent felons. For the mentally ill as per current law. And more.

I am against blanket bans. We can and should exempt armed security guards like Brinks, police, former police, perhaps former military officers, and certain competitions under strict rules and locations. I see no reason to deny a licensed armed guard at a gold repository a high capacity gun.

Duty calls… BRB

180 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:18:41pm

The “crazy people” focus is interesting to me for one reason. I find it fascinating that a group of anti fed, conservative freedom fighters are in favor of federal legislation that would allow liberal medical practitioners more leeway to take away the freedoms of fellow Americans, deny them basic liberties, and force medical treatment all at tax payers expense. It is almost as if the gun control issue gets conservatives so upset they are willing to abandon pretty much every basic principle they stand for in order to preserve the totally unfettered right to guns. As Americans approach the debt ceiling and the next fiscal cliff they should perhaps consider the strategy for getting the GOP to capitulate.

181 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:18:49pm

re: #162 erik_t

The Prince of Darkness is not to be trifled with lightly.

LOL. Many years ago I owned an ‘87 Jaguar XJ6. The electrics were enough to drive anyone crazy. Went through three alternators in 2 weeks, and once needed to replace a heater control switch. $400.00 for a part the size of a pack of Marlboros. I found one at a wrecking yard, fortunately, for $5.00 and put it in.

Then I sold the damned car to some 19-year old Princess who thought it was the most beautiful car ever. I’m sure she enjoyed it….until something went wrong. Most likely, it’s now sitting somewhere rusting away.

182 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:19:07pm

Dear Religious Right, This is What Intentional ‘Misrepresentation’ Looks Like

On his radio program today, Fischer was discussing remarks Sen. Harry Reid delivered on the Senate floor last week blasting the failure by Congress, thanks to House Republicans, to pass a relief package for those impacted by Hurricane Sandy. In his remarks, Reid noted that Congress passed legislation aiding victims of Hurricane Katrina within ten days back in 2005, while victims of Sandy have had to wait over two months for assistance.

But in Fischer’s deluded world, Reid’s remarks were “a damning indictment of [President] Obama’s FEMA.”

183 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:19:09pm

re: #179 Political Atheist

Randall, please, the original question was about purchase. Operating in public vs operating in private matters. Of course we often operate cars a lot more than guns.

This is a dumb comparison anyway. Guns are so different than cars they should be regulated on their own, not by comparison to any device so unlike them.

How did that weapon get to the private range, I’m sure it didn’t teleport did it?

184 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:19:24pm

re: #178 allegro

It’s called a drivers license. If one is unable to pass the written or driving test, no license. If one is convicted of driving drunk, violating operation laws, or having health issues that could prevent safe operation, that license is suspended or revocated.

I’m not picking on you specifically, but can we just drop this absolutely stupid fucking argument? He’s just trying to throw monkey wrenches into the discussion. Comparing car ownership to gun ownership is fucking stupid. Somebody should be slapped for it.

185 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:20:05pm

re: #178 allegro

If one is unable to pass the written or driving test, no license

But thats not a background check

If one is convicted of driving drunk, violating operation laws, or having health issues that could prevent safe operation, that license is suspended or revocated.

POST having it.

186 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:20:17pm

re: #182 Kragar

Dear Religious Right, This is What Intentional ‘Misrepresentation’ Looks Like

Yeah blame Obama’s FEMA when Boehner puts off the aid package. That makes perfect sense.*
* If you’re a stupid hack

187 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:20:33pm

re: #179 Political Atheist

This is a dumb comparison anyway. Guns are so different than cars they should be regulated on their own, not by comparison to any device so unlike them.

A fuckin’ men.

188 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:21:58pm

re: #179 Political Atheist

Randall, please, the original question was about purchase. Operating in public vs operating in private matters. Of course we often operate cars a lot more than guns.

This is a dumb comparison anyway. Guns are so different than cars they should be regulated on their own, not by comparison to any device so unlike them.

Well sure, but I’m not the one who started the gun-car comparison, you were?

189 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:22:02pm

Just so it’s clear I brought up cars because it’s always said, “A car can kill people, should we get rid of cars?” A gun has a purpose and I just simply wish that more gun advocates would acknowledge that. When I see elected officials claiming that credit cards and ping pong balls are as or more dangerous. I see someone skirting the issue and frankly I get pissed seeing that.

190 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:22:13pm

Requesting to buy one of these items requires a background check:

Ammunition
Cold medicine

Chose wisely.

191 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:22:14pm

re: #188 Randall Gross

Well sure, but I’m not the one who started the gun-car comparison, you were?

No that was me.

192 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:22:42pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

No that was me.

Whoops, I stand corrected, and thanks for that.

193 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:23:05pm

#TGDN has turned into an absolute train wreck. A bunch of spammers begging for followers and the same fake quotes and lame photoshops being retweeted ad nauseum.

It is Twitter Hell. Makes the Derp List stimulating and intellectual.

194 iossarian  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:23:08pm

re: #190 Kragar

Requesting to buy one of these items requires a background check:

Ammunition
Cold medicine

Chose wisely.

I’ve got a bit of a sinus infection coming on, maybe I’ll pick up an AK-47 on the way home from work and see if that clears the fucker out.

195 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:23:19pm

re: #192 Randall Gross

Whoops, I stand corrected, and thanks for that.

No problem. Just wanted to make it clear before this turned into a he said-he said.

196 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:23:26pm

Suddenly, Rod Stewart…

Youtube Video
197 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:23:52pm
198 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:24:13pm

re: #197 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

SORCERY!

199 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:24:32pm

re: #197 Charles Johnson

Wow

200 lostlakehiker  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:25:14pm

re: #21 HappyWarrior

What the hell do they expect her to do? If I got shot by a deranged gunman who was able to possess a deadly weapon, I’d fight tooth and nail to prevent the easy access of guns too. It’s not about politicizing her tragedy assholes, it’s about preventing future tragedies. But please do tell us how “ping pongs” and credit cards are more or as dangerous as guns. A gun has only one purpose- to maim and kill. So you can take that comparison of guns to vehicles and shut up.

Well, there are several legitimate uses of guns.

(1) To threaten maiming or killing, or exhibit the capacity to do so, thus quelling violent impulses: cops carry guns mostly for that purpose.

(2) To outright maim or kill those who cannot be stopped from arson, murder, etc. any other way.

(3) To kill game animals for meat.

(4) To kill pest animals because they’re pests.

(5) To kill trophy animals for sport. (The moral legitimacy of this is arguable, but it’s fully legal and some very successful conservation efforts are built around hunting and the revenue from hunting.)

(6) Maybe I missed some.

But the point is, Giffords and Kelly aren’t trying to shut down gun ownership. Nothing they propose would mess up any of the above.

It’s disheartening the kinds of things so many (a majority) of the weasels are posting as comments. It takes a real sicko to write that stuff.

201 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:25:20pm

re: #199 Randall Gross

Wow

Such devilry can only be the product of the Antichrist

202 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:26:17pm

re: #197 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

So, has Apple found a way to patent it yet?

//

203 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:26:26pm

re: #197 Charles Johnson

One step closer to those floating screens in Minority Report.

204 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:26:40pm

re: #201 Kragar

Such devilry can only be the product of the Antichrist

Magicks says I ! Heathen Magicks!

205 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:28:04pm

re: #183 Randall Gross

How did that weapon get to the private range, I’m sure it didn’t teleport did it?

Locked in a container, unavailable for access short of stopping and unlocking and then loading etc. That’s California law that I agree with

206 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:28:31pm

re: #204 Randall Gross

Magicks says I ! Heathen Magicks!

Youtube Video
207 TheSwedish  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:28:37pm

Not only am I on board with Ms. Giffords’s message, I want to hug her. It just seems right.

Seriously, if an LGFer sees her, could he or she do that for me and report back? :-)

Also, Mr. Johnson, I’m surprised you’re not giving the Hagel nomination a harder look. I see other LGFers have posted on it, but are you going to go in depth?

208 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:29:42pm

re: #190 Kragar

Requesting to buy one of these items requires a background check:

Ammunition
Cold medicine

Chose wisely.

Cold medicine is not a right! //

209 iossarian  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:31:03pm

re: #205 Political Atheist

Locked in a container, unavailable for access short of stopping and unlocking and then loading etc. That’s California law that I agree with

See, this is what I don’t understand. This law clearly infringes your “right to bear arms”. So the whole “but, but, the constitution” thing is, as always, purely a matter of pointing to the dusty old document to justify whatever we feel like justifying.

210 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:31:16pm

re: #200 lostlakehiker

Well, there are several legitimate uses of guns.

(1) To threaten maiming or killing, or exhibit the capacity to do so, thus quelling violent impulses: cops carry guns mostly for that purpose.

(2) To outright maim or kill those who cannot be stopped from arson, murder, etc. any other way.

(3) To kill game animals for meat.

(4) To kill pest animals because they’re pests.

(5) To kill trophy animals for sport. (The moral legitimacy of this is arguable, but it’s fully legal and some very successful conservation efforts are built around hunting and the revenue from hunting.)

(6) Maybe I missed some.

But the point is, Giffords and Kelly aren’t trying to shut down gun ownership. Nothing they propose would mess up any of the above.

It’s disheartening the kinds of things so many (a majority) of the weasels are posting as comments. It takes a real sicko to write that stuff.

You missed the best one of all: to plink tin cans for target practice fun Plastic .22 bullets are cheapest and best for that.

211 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:31:18pm

re: #193 Vicious Babushka

#TGDN has turned into an absolute train wreck. A bunch of spammers begging for followers and the same fake quotes and lame photoshops being retweeted ad nauseum.

It is Twitter Hell. Makes the Derp List stimulating and intellectual.

This wacko is hilarious.

TarsTarkas.NET ‏@TarsTarkasnet
#TGDN Tip: LOL stands for “Lucifer Our Lord”, never trust anyone who LOLs!

212 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:32:03pm

Some one who was shot in the head and survived and an astronaut.
VS
Armchair fucktards.
Gee, wonder who’d win that one?

213 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:32:28pm

if the state of car ownership in this country resembled gun ownership, crazy teenagers would be stealing their parents gigantic armored jet powered tanks that go 500 miles an hour and ramming them into the sides of movie theatres and school auditoriums

why are there so many gun massacres and hardly any car massacres?

214 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:32:52pm

re: #211 Tigger2

215 Interesting Times  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:33:15pm

re: #197 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I understand why they chose that pun-based name, but it sounds (and looks) a little too close to “Despair”.

216 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:33:41pm

re: #200 lostlakehiker

Well, there are several legitimate uses of guns.

(1) To threaten maiming or killing, or exhibit the capacity to do so, thus quelling violent impulses: cops carry guns mostly for that purpose.

(2) To outright maim or kill those who cannot be stopped from arson, murder, etc. any other way.

(3) To kill game animals for meat.

(4) To kill pest animals because they’re pests.

(5) To kill trophy animals for sport. (The moral legitimacy of this is arguable, but it’s fully legal and some very successful conservation efforts are built around hunting and the revenue from hunting.)

(6) Maybe I missed some.

But the point is, Giffords and Kelly aren’t trying to shut down gun ownership. Nothing they propose would mess up any of the above.

It’s disheartening the kinds of things so many (a majority) of the weasels are posting as comments. It takes a real sicko to write that stuff.

I didn’t say guns were illegitimate but nearly all you bring up involves killing or the threat of killing. That’s different than a car or any of the other things I’ve seen said to be just as dangerous as guns. And you’re right they’re not proposing any of that which makes the hatred directed at them that more pathetic and unreasonable.

217 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:36:41pm
218 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:36:46pm

In the mist?

219 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:37:36pm

re: #161 sattv4u2

I always figured that by the time the surveyors got out west to determine state lines, they must have been tired from all the odd shapes east of the Mississippi and just said Fuggit ,,,, go straight for 300 miles,,,,take a 90 degree turn right ,, go straight for 300 miles,, take a 90 degree turn right,, go 30 miles ,,,,,,,

If you look closely at a large map of Arizona, there is a kink in the northern border just above Nokai Mesa on the Navajo reservation where the two survey teams met…

220 Mattand  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:38:04pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

I didn’t say guns were illegitimate but nearly all you bring up involves killing or the threat of killing. That’s different than a car or any of the other things I’ve seen said to be just as dangerous as guns. And you’re right they’re not proposing any of that which makes the hatred directed at them that more pathetic and unreasonable.

That can’t be said enough. A car, a baseball bat, a knife; their ability to cause damage or hurt someone is secondary to their intended purpose. A gun’s primary purpose is to cause damage.

221 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:38:15pm

re: #218 Kragar

[Embedded content]

In the mist?

A-moral.

222 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:38:17pm

re: #217 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Pfft what does he know.

223 Slap  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:39:05pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Just so it’s clear I brought up cars because it’s always said, “A car can kill people, should we get rid of cars?” A gun has a purpose and I just simply wish that more gun advocates would acknowledge that. When I see elected officials claiming that credit cards and ping pong balls are as or more dangerous. I see someone skirting the issue and frankly I get pissed seeing that.

HW, I’m not picking on you — yours was the most recent that touches on my take on guns vs. cars:

I’ve spent quite a lot of time driving all across the country. Lived in several traffic-clogged major cities and have driven through (and throughout) several others in my 55-plus years. In observing the behavior of my fellow citizen drivers and the choices they make and the lack of awareness they display — not to mention the anger and recklessness that’s evident constantly — I have come to the conclusion that I am utterly without faith in the “in the moment” judgment of most drivers.
Why would anybody think that these same people we share the roads with every day are going to somehow acquire rational and well-developed judgment skills when they have a gun in their hand?

224 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:39:14pm

re: #222 HappyWarrior

Pfft what does he know.

Fucking Hippie.

225 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:39:35pm

re: #220 Mattand

That can’t be said enough. A car, a baseball bat, a knife; their ability to cause damage or hurt someone is secondary to their intended purpose. A gun’s primary purpose is to cause damage.

Exactly and I just wish more gun advocates would be honest about that. Listen, if you want a gun to protect your family. I completely understand. You like hunting? Ditto that. Like target shooting? Ditto. Feel paranoid about the government coming to get you? I’ll even grant you that as long as you don’t get in the way of my right to live peacefully.

226 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:40:21pm

William Gheen Exposes Immigrant Plot to Collapse Economy, Break America Apart

Americans for Legal Immigration PAC president William Gheen stopped by Crosstalk on VCY America yesterday where he warned that undocumented immigrants are playing the long game in their supposed plan to destabilize the U.S. The anti-immigrant zealot maintained that undocumented immigrants want voting rights so they can form a powerful voting bloc that displaces conservative voters and forces taxpayers “to pay reparations” to them. Gheen predicts that such reparations are designed to bring about an economic collapse, which he says is all according to their plan to “become more separatist and say, ‘well we need to have these lands in the Southwest back’” and realize the Reconquista.

227 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:40:50pm

re: #223 Slap

HW, I’m not picking on you — yours was the most recent that touches on my take on guns vs. cars:

I’ve spent quite a lot of time driving all across the country. Lived in several traffic-clogged major cities and have driven through (and throughout) several others in my 55-plus years. In observing the behavior of my fellow citizen drivers and the choices they make and the lack of awareness they display — not to mention the anger and recklessness that’s evident constantly — I have come to the conclusion that I am utterly without faith in the “in the moment” judgment of most drivers.
Why would anybody think that these same people we share the roads with every day are going to somehow acquire rational and well-developed judgment skills when they have a gun in their hand?

Don’t think you’re picking on me at all so no worries. And yeah people are idiotic and reckless with their cars. Why wouldn’t many of these same people be equally reckless with their guns?

228 Mattand  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:41:14pm

re: #218 Kragar

[Embedded content]

In the mist?

229 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:41:32pm

re: #217 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Wasn’t McChrystal the guy the wingnuts were slobbering all over after the Rolling Stone article of him and aides badmouthing the administration behind closed doors?

230 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:41:53pm

re: #229 Targetpractice

Wasn’t McChrystal the guy the wingnuts were slobbering all over after the Rolling Stone article of him and aides badmouthing the administration behind closed doors?

Yes, the same.

231 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:42:38pm

re: #225 HappyWarrior

Exactly and I just wish more gun advocates would be honest about that. Listen, if you want a gun to protect your family. I completely understand. You like hunting? Ditto that. Like target shooting? Ditto. Feel paranoid about the government coming to get you? I’ll even grant you that as long as you don’t get in the way of my right to live peacefully.

There’s a whole host of regulations that can be enacted that will not effect any change on legal, law-abiding gun owners. But every infinitesimal step is part of the grand conspiracy to eventually confiscate all guns according to gun-rights advocates. There’s millions of dollars in lobbying behind that idea from the weapon manufacturers, and none of that will ever change.

232 iossarian  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:43:03pm

Time to ride off into the sunset here. Yee-haw! Just another day in God’s Gun Country.

Adios amigos. Catch you later.

233 Slap  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:43:03pm

re: #228 Mattand

[Embedded content]

Yeah, with the gorillas.

234 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:43:26pm

re: #225 HappyWarrior

Exactly and I just wish more gun advocates would be honest about that. Listen, if you want a gun to protect your family. I completely understand. You like hunting? Ditto that. Like target shooting? Ditto. Feel paranoid about the government coming to get you? I’ll even grant you that as long as you don’t get in the way of my right to live peacefully.

There is another argument that gets floated after every mass murder, namely that if someone had been there with a gun, they could’ve prevented it.

Guns are not a magic talisman. If you want to use one to defend yourself in your home, then that is your choice, but unless you are highly trained and experienced, have nerves of steel and an incredibly sound sense of judgement, pulling one in public to stop a shooter is not necessarily going to help, in fact it could easily make things worse.

235 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:43:39pm

So last night and this morning, my daughter complained she had a tooth ache.

I come home early so I can take her to the Dentist.

“Why do I have to go to the Dentist?”

236 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:44:11pm

re: #228 Mattand

[Embedded content]

misty mountains?

237 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:45:00pm

re: #231 Ghost of Tom Joad

There’s a whole host of regulations that can be enacted that will not effect any change on legal, law-abiding gun owners. But every infinitesimal step is part of the grand conspiracy to eventual confiscate all guns according to gun-rights advocates. There’s millions of dollars in lobbying behind that idea from the weapon manufacturers, and none of that will ever change.

Not only confiscate guns, outlaw Christianity and captitalism, impose Sharia law, and subordinate the US government to the General Assembly of the UN.//

238 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:45:11pm

re: #235 Kragar

So last night and this morning, my daughter complained she had a tooth ache.

I come home early so I can take her to the Dentist.

“Why do I have to go to the Dentist?”

“Because they’re still more popular than Congress. Get in the car.”

239 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:45:32pm

And, I’m off to the dentist

240 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:45:41pm

re: #218 Kragar

[Embedded content]

In the mist?

Good movie.

241 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:45:56pm

re: #234 Sol Berdinowitz

There is another argument that gets floated after every mass murder, namely that if someone had been there with a gun, they could’ve prevented it.

Guns are not a magic talisman. If you want to use one to defend yourself in your home, then that is your choice, but unless you are highly trained and experienced, have nerves of steel and an incredibly sound sense of judgement, pulling one in public to stop a shooter is not necessarily going to help, in fact it could easily make things worse.

They’re not as easy to use in real life as they are in video games I can tell you that much from personal experience. I haven’t fired much in my life but when I have, it’s been in a completely relaxed setting, and one where obviously someone couldn’t easily point a gun on me and shoot me. And I agree, another gun man could make things worse. I think people who bring up that hypothetical mean well enough but they’re ignoring the reality of a situation like that. That kind of situation could end up badly not just for the other unarmed people but also the shooter as well and then we’d have people upset that a potential hero was shot by police.

242 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:46:42pm

re: #237 Petero1818

Not only confiscate guns, outlaw Christianity and captitalism, impose Sharia law, and subordinate the US government to the General Assembly of the UN.//

Yeah, it’s always some combo, never just one thing. Ban guns? You’re banning baby Jesus, private enterprise, and good ol’ cheap American beer.

243 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:47:20pm

re: #235 Kragar

So last night and this morning, my daughter complained she had a tooth ache.

I come home early so I can take her to the Dentist.

“Why do I have to go to the Dentist?”

“you’re right sweety. You don’t have to go! Now, just tie this end of the string to the bad tooth while I tie the other end to the bumper of my car

244 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:47:33pm

re: #242 HappyWarrior

Yeah, it’s always some combo, never just one thing. Ban guns? You’re banning baby Jesus, private enterprise, and good ol’ cheap American beer.

To be fair, some of that beer should be banned.

245 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:47:34pm

re: #241 HappyWarrior

They’re not as easy to use in real life as they are in video games I can tell you that much from personal experience. I haven’t fired much in my life but when I have, it’s been in a completely relaxed setting, and one where obviously someone couldn’t easily point a gun on me and shoot me. And I agree, another gun man could make things worse. I think people who bring up that hypothetical mean well enough but they’re ignoring the reality of a situation like that. That kind of situation could end up badly not just for the other unarmed people but also the shooter as well and then we’d have people upset that a potential hero was shot by police.

And if a police officer shows up at the scene, it could really complicate things…who is the murderer and who is the vigilante?

246 erik_t  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:47:36pm

re: #238 Ghost of Tom Joad

“Because they’re still more popular than Congress. Get in the car.”

Listening to Nickelback while being given a root canal by Donald Trump: more popular than Congress.

247 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:48:17pm

re: #207 TheSwedish

Not only am I on board with Ms. Giffords’s message, I want to hug her. It just seems right.

Seriously, if an LGFer sees her, could he or she do that for me and report back? :-)

Also, Mr. Johnson, I’m surprised you’re not giving the Hagel nomination a harder look. I see other LGFers have posted on it, but are you going to go in depth?

I’m gonna upding you for the first part. As for the second part,

TheSwedish

(Logged in)
Registered since: Jun 26, 2010 at 10:17 pm
No. of comments posted: 35
No. of Pages posted: 0

it’s time for you to post a Page!

248 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:50:10pm

re: #241 HappyWarrior

They’re not as easy to use in real life as they are in video games I can tell you that much from personal experience. I haven’t fired much in my life but when I have, it’s been in a completely relaxed setting, and one where obviously someone couldn’t easily point a gun on me and shoot me. And I agree, another gun man could make things worse. I think people who bring up that hypothetical mean well enough but they’re ignoring the reality of a situation like that. That kind of situation could end up badly not just for the other unarmed people but also the shooter as well and then we’d have people upset that a potential hero was shot by police.

This always reminds me of the story from a guy who was at Gabby Gifford’s shooting. He was carrying a pistol, and when the shooting started, he decided against pulling it for that exact reason. How, in that situation, can anybody identify friend from foe? “People are dumb, panicky animals, and you know it.” And the gun-nuts want everybody to pack heat.

When the shooting starts, everybody would just whip our their gun and fire at the first thing they see with a gun. Hell, most would just start firing.

249 abolitionist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:50:12pm

re: #243 sattv4u2

“you’re right sweety. You don’t have to go! Now, just tie this end of the string to the bad tooth while I tie the other end to the bumper of my car

That’s so wrong. Tying the other end to a doorknob is more eco-friendly.

250 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:50:32pm

re: #244 Petero1818

To be fair, some of that beer should be banned.

Shariah!

251 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:51:10pm

re: #248 Ghost of Tom Joad

This always reminds me of the story from a guy who was at Gabby Gifford’s shooting. He was carrying a pistol, and when the shooting started, he decided against pulling it for that exact reason. How, in that situation, can anybody identify friend from foe? “People are dumb, panicky animals, and you know it.” And the gun-nuts want everybody to pack heat.

When the shooting starts, everybody would just whip our their gun and fire at the first thing they see with a gun. Hell, most would just start firing.

That guy was smart.

252 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:51:45pm

re: #250 HappyWarrior

Shariah!

Beer, champagne and wine.
All taste terrible. Terrible.
BAN THEM ALL!

253 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:52:28pm

re: #249 abolitionist

That’s so wrong. Tying the other end to a doorknob is more eco-friendly.

The carbon-monoxide from the exhaust before stepping on the gas helps dull the pain because you’re starting to lose consciousness.

#methodtothemadness

254 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:52:48pm

re: #252 Varek Raith

Beer, champagne and wine.
All taste terrible. Terrible.
BAN THEM ALL!

Them’s fighting words.

255 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:53:14pm

re: #254 HappyWarrior

Them’s fighting words.

The Beatles are overrated!

256 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:54:36pm

re: #255 Varek Raith

The Beatles are overrated!

Heresy.

257 Gus  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:54:37pm

Woot!

#secede

258 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:55:33pm

re: #257 Gus

Woot!

#secede

Don’t let the door hit your Confederate asses on the way out!

259 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:56:05pm

Secession because it worked out so well last time. You know why they call it the Lost Cause?

260 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:56:06pm

re: #23 Kragar

Playing the part of Jesus in Wingnutland today, Kharn the Betrayer

Image: Kharn_victory.jpg

I see another candidate for cleansing. Fear not, for the Dark Angels will gladly perform the task…

:)

261 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:57:15pm

Bill Scalzo • 5 hours ago

Any lingering sympathy I had for this freedom-hating Statist and her repulsive, opportunistic husband has vanished.

Go fuck yourself, Gabby. And the same goes for your piece of shit husband.

Words fail.

262 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:58:15pm

I bet the idiot Confederates thought the same thing about Lincoln that today’s idiots think about Obama. He’s a wuss, no way he’ll stop us.

263 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:59:47pm

re: #249 abolitionist

That’s so wrong. Tying the other end to a doorknob is more eco-friendly.

He has a Prius!!
/

264 celticdragon  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:59:51pm

re: #257 Gus

Woot!

#secede

Oh, man. The bullshit piled up so fast in Vietnam Derpistan you needed wings to stay above it.

265 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:01:35pm

Really if you look at what the South did, it was disastrous not only in terms of manpower but it also economically crippled them for generations. So, yeah emulating the CSA probably not the best of ideas.
Had to be added. Not to mention the South lost alot of political influence too.

266 Tigger2  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:03:07pm

re: #257 Gus

Woot!

#secede

Simple fucks all of them. to think they could do that and not lose all the federal holding in all those states.

267 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:12:06pm

And, in all screaming caps…
GOOD FOR HER!
I hope that she is successful, and would go out of my way to help!

268 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:21:40pm

The attacks toward Ms. Giffords are outrageous. It’s one thing to disagree with her, but I imagine you won’t find a more patriotic couple than one consisting of a congressperson and an astronaut!

269 Kragar  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:33:50pm

re: #260 celticdragon

I see another candidate for cleansing. Fear not, for the Dark Angels will gladly perform the task…

:)

So I take it you saw the Advanced Releases?

I was expecting Tau actually.

270 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:46:18pm

re: #67 Bulworth

But there’s at least a record that you own a car. Some gun advocates seem to think that their mere owning of a gun is information that no official should have. At least that seemed to be one of the complaints in the recent viral “email from a marine” that was apparently sent to Senator Feinstein.

I disagree with those people. AFAIK that’s the loud fringe.

271 TedStriker  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:50:55pm

re: #85 erik_t

Let’s see….

* Guns don’t snore
* Guns never chew with their mouth open
* Guns use less closet space
* Guns never complain when you leave the seat up

Sounds like an iron-clad case to me.

A lot of the same can be said for beer.

///

272 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:51:10pm

At least Rush Limbaugh will have another female to ridicule tomorrow. Maybe he can make fun of her looks, too, and I’m sure he can work in calling her a slut if he really tries.

273 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:55:14pm

re: #159 iossarian

I see. So basically - the hyper-right-wing interpretation of the constitution is the only valid one?

If you view the Supreme Court as hyper right wing, then yes in your view.

We can characterize the court as we wish, but we should remember that the decision is now the law of the land, highly unlikely to change. And I want to hastily point out there was expressly stated room to regulate the guns. Like what we already have about full auto machine guns. Which passes the court test. So somewhere between what we have now and unconstitutional blanket ownership/possession bans we can find a reasonable balance. Part of that might be calming down the hot rhetoric. I say that largely to the pro gun side, but on the anti gun side, well consider the value of calm over angry decision making or debate.

274 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 2:58:39pm

Hey y’all, don’t be telling me to disarm on the same thread that’s telling me my yahoo confederate neighbors are gonna go all Ft. Sumter on my ass.

Might need to lay down some suppressive fire while we boogie for the Pea River.

275 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 3:11:11pm

re: #188 Randall Gross

Well sure, but I’m not the one who started the gun-car comparison, you were?

Okay I think that clears one misunderstanding. I was answering a specific. But your points have merit, just have to be addressed a little differently. This thread might be on it’s last gasp, but I’m happy to answer the many places I think the pro gun guys are off the rails. And where I think we might strike a balance of public safety and civilian operation of guns.

We good?

276 TheSwedish  Tue, Jan 8, 2013 5:50:22pm

re: #247 wrenchwench

As for getting my own LGF page, I’m a fan of this site, a near-daily reader, all that. Thanks for the props, but I think I’m going to stay a Twitter guy for a good while, given that I’ve long gotten a kick out of posting one-liners.

I’ll keep the LGF page business in mind, though.

Regarding my shout out to Charles about writing on Hagel, I guess I was calling for that more out of my own fascination about whether or not Charles has joined Hagel as a self - styled foreign policy realist after being a pro - preemption hawk for so long.

Meantime, here’s my Twitter page (It’s also linked on my LGF account):

[Link: twitter.com…]


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