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You can calculate the worth of a man by the number of his enemies, and the importance of a work of art by the harm that is spoken of it.
— Gustave Flaubert
554 comments
2 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:17:48pm |
I am celebrating Christmas by restraining myself from posting that F word that would get deleted instantly. Now I am working on an F word that won't get deleted right away. I'm slow. Any help from my Lizard Buddies?
| 3 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:18:27pm |
re: #2 Floral Giraffe
I am celebrating Christmas by restraining myself from posting that F word that would get deleted instantly. Now I am working on an F word that won't get deleted right away. I'm slow. Any help from my Lizard Buddies?
How about "frak" from Battlestar Galactica?
| 4 |
Gus Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:19:04pm |
re: #2 Floral Giraffe
I am celebrating Christmas by restraining myself from posting that F word that would get deleted instantly. Now I am working on an F word that won't get deleted right away. I'm slow. Any help from my Lizard Buddies?
I can't phucking think of one right now.
/
| 5 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:22:30pm |
| 6 |
Varek Raith Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:23:03pm |
re: #2 Floral Giraffe
I am celebrating Christmas by restraining myself from posting that F word that would get deleted instantly. Now I am working on an F word that won't get deleted right away. I'm slow. Any help from my Lizard Buddies?
...The word 'Frell' from Farscape works. I'll actually use 'frell' or 'frak' all of the time instead of the F-bomb. :)
| 7 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:24:50pm |
| 8 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:25:34pm |
YIKES.
Late, here.
Good night!
| 9 |
Gus Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:25:37pm |
| 10 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:26:33pm |
Sigh... Christmas is almost over... what shall I do with the vault full of Christmas music I have yet not played?
Lots of it is good stuff to, like this:
| 11 |
Varek Raith Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:28:18pm |
re: #10 freetoken
Sigh... Christmas is almost over... what shall I do with the vault full of Christmas music I have yet not played?
Lots of it is good stuff to, like this:
[Video]
You could do what my dad does and play Christmas music all year round...
...no sarc :P
| 12 |
Neutral President Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:28:46pm |
re: #2 Floral Giraffe
I am celebrating Christmas by restraining myself from posting that F word that would get deleted instantly. Now I am working on an F word that won't get deleted right away. I'm slow. Any help from my Lizard Buddies?
Posting where? Here? I wouldn't think you would get deleted right away unless you turned into a raving nazi creationist AGW science denying maniac, complaining about the thread topic or insulting Charles during the course of that post.
| 13 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:29:35pm |
re: #11 Varek Raith
Oh, I have no problem with doing that. However, I suspect that Charles and some of the commenters here might have an issue with it...
| 14 |
Gus Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:31:08pm |
re: #13 freetoken
Oh, I have no problem with doing that. However, I suspect that Charles and some of the commenters here might have an issue with it...
Does this foretell the coming Christmas Music Lizard Rebellion of 2010?
| 15 |
Varek Raith Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:31:15pm |
re: #13 freetoken
Oh, I have no problem with doing that. However, I suspect that Charles and some of the commenters here might have an issue with it...
Ya never know... You could be the SpaceJesus of Christmas Music a LGF.
/:D
| 16 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:31:35pm |
re: #13 freetoken
Oh, I have no problem with doing that. However, I suspect that Charles and some of the commenters here might have an issue with it...
You ain't just whistling Dixie, brother!
| 17 |
Gus Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:33:24pm |
The Lizard Xhosas must stop the Xmas music!
//Breaks into a clicking language.
//
| 18 |
Neutral President Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:34:31pm |
re: #17 Gus 802
The Lizard Xhosas must stop the Xmas music!
//Breaks into a clicking language.
//
Well since we are talking Lizards, they could also be those Extraterrestrial ones that secretly rule the world and might speak a clicking language similar to the Newcomers in Alien Nation.
| 19 |
Bagua Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:43:01pm |
Since health care is such a big issue I’d like to share some insight as to why National Health in Britain is not on balance positive in my view.
I spoke with a close friend today who had recently seen his neurologist. He stated his partial paralysis is likely permanent, and too bad he didn’t have the problem operated on right away before the damage was done. My friend said to the Doctor “How could I have had it done sooner when they had me on NHS waiting lists?”
He detailed, three weeks wait for the MRI. Then three weeks for the doctor to read it, then another waiting list for the surgery. Three months wait in all for an acute condition and a permanent disability as a result. This is someone fully employed their entire life, and heavily taxed to fund for this benefit.
| 20 |
Gus Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:52:28pm |
re: #19 Bagua
Since health care is such a big issue I’d like to share some insight as to why National Health in Britain is not on balance positive in my view.
I spoke with a close friend today who had recently seen his neurologist. He stated his partial paralysis is likely permanent, and too bad he didn’t have the problem operated on right away before the damage was done. My friend said to the Doctor “How could I have had it done sooner when they had me on NHS waiting lists?”
He detailed, three weeks wait for the MRI. Then three weeks for the doctor to read it, then another waiting list for the surgery. Three months wait in all for an acute condition and a permanent disability as a result. This is someone fully employed their entire life, and heavily taxed to fund for this benefit.
| 22 |
Gus Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:56:46pm |
re: #21 Dark_Falcon
What does that mean?
Nada. Was just watching Michael Palin on the BBC and I saw NIH.
LNDT and all that.
| 24 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:57:58pm |
That Flaubert quote is great. Makes me think of Andre Serrano, heh.
| 25 |
Gus Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:59:49pm |
| 26 |
Bagua Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:04:12am |
re: #24 WindUpBird
That Flaubert quote is great. Makes me think of Andre Serrano, heh.
He the one who photographed a crucifix in a glass of his own urine? I do recall that causing quite a stir.
| 27 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:04:16am |
re: #24 WindUpBird
That Flaubert quote is great. Makes me think of Andre Serrano, heh.
That's the asshole who produced "Piss Christ", right?
| 28 |
stayfrosty Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:04:40am |
So if that quote is to be judge, Hitler was a great person and Piss Christ is good art?
| 29 |
stayfrosty Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:05:50am |
re: #26 Bagua
He the one who photographed a crucifix in a glass of his own urine? I do recall that causing quite a stir.
Weird. That's exactly what came to mind when I read that quote. And I certainly wouldn't think the ill-will spoken of that particular piece of "art" makes it worth anything.
| 30 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:06:02am |
re: #25 Gus 802
NHS!
Oh heck. I'm drinking a beer and having a few shots of whiskey.
No offense, but it does sound like you're a bit too drunk to post.
| 31 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:06:20am |
What the... How did we get to Serrano and Hitler from this quote?
//Grabs popcorn.
/
| 32 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:06:45am |
re: #30 Dark_Falcon
No offense, but it does sound like you're a bit too drunk to post.
Does it seem like I'm drunk? I'm not drunk DF.
| 33 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:07:12am |
re: #29 stayfrosty
Weird. That's exactly what came to mind when I read that quote. And I certainly wouldn't think the ill-will spoken of that particular piece of "art" makes it worth anything.
Agreed. Serrano had the right to produce it, but he is still an blasphemous scumbag for having done so.
| 34 |
stayfrosty Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:08:04am |
re: #31 Gus 802
What the... How did we get to Serrano and Hitler from this quote?
//Grabs popcorn.
/
Hitler's probably the most reviled man in history and "Piss Christ" is pretty reviled as well.
| 35 |
Bagua Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:10:51am |
| 36 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:11:52am |
| 37 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:15:10am |
| 39 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:18:37am |
re: #38 Bagua
Agreed. Vulgarity is not art.
Perhaps Orozco's "Empty Shoebox" is more to your liking.
/
| 40 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:21:07am |
re: #39 Gus 802
Perhaps Orozco's "Empty Shoebox" is more to your liking.
/
That one is simply lame. Lame is order of magnitude less bad than the (literal) waste that Serrano turns out.
| 42 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:23:51am |
re: #40 Dark_Falcon
That one is simply lame. Lame is order of magnitude less bad than the (literal) waste that Serrano turns out.
Some artists, that is the financially successful one, reach a point of celebrity that they are able to be revered from within the modern art ghetto for doing just about anything. So it could be a lame "empty shoebox" or a repugnant "feces retrospective." It's as if thought they're clapping and snapping their fingers for whatever "poetry" the artists put out.
| 43 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:24:02am |
| 44 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:29:46am |
re: #43 Gus 802
Yes and no.
That is. Empty shoebox versus feces exhibition. They're both what could be colloquially termed as "crap." It reminds me of the color panels from the 1980s. Typically it was walking into a museum and seeing a canvas of nothing but magenta paint (a color that was a fad of the time). In a way Serrano's feces is almost an ironic reflection of much of the modernist poser art movement.
| 45 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:32:17am |
re: #44 Gus 802
That is. Empty shoebox versus feces exhibition. They're both what could be colloquially termed as "crap." It reminds me of the color panels from the 1980s. Typically it was walking into a museum and seeing a canvas of nothing but magenta paint (a color that was a fad of the time). In a way Serrano's feces is almost an ironic reflection of much of the modernist poser art movement.
Still, it is his determination to violate normal standards and gross people out that leads me to think of him as an immature ass.
| 46 |
Bagua Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:32:48am |
Or just the result of a very sick mind mascaraing as "edgy art". Not really worth this much consideration.
| 47 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:36:18am |
re: #46 Bagua
Or just the result of a very sick mind mascaraing as "edgy art". Not really worth this much consideration.
Quite Concur.
| 48 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:37:25am |
re: #45 Dark_Falcon
Still, it is his determination to violate normal standards and gross people out that leads me to think of him as an immature ass.
I agree. It's that immaturity that makes it more of an "in your face" act. It's not art, it's a selfish display.
And here I tend to like the Hudson River School of painting. I used to draw and paint. Almost considered art school but frustrated with the overwhelming social aspects and cliquish peer pressure of the modern artist subculture.
Cintra Wilson wrote an interesting piece in Salon once about the more absurd aspects of the art world in Manhattan. A lot of artists that are chosen to exhibit because of their appearances and sexual energy.
| 49 |
Neutral President Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:37:40am |
re: #35 Bagua
His latest "art" uses feces as a "medium".
You know... the entire split second it took me to click on that seemed to last forever as I was going over it in my head "should I be clicking this... really, should I, you know Mike, anything involving feces makes you puke... dont do it! oh... for fucks sake..."
| 50 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:01:49am |
Pretty slow here tonight.
I have an idea. Let's invade France.
//
| 51 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:03:00am |
re: #50 Gus 802
Pretty slow here tonight.
I have an idea. Let's invade France.
//
Are you of German origin, perchance? ;)
| 52 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:04:51am |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
Are you of German origin, perchance? ;)
Nah. Although I've been confused for being so many times. :)
| 54 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:11:01am |
| 55 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:15:47am |
| 56 |
laZardo Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:21:05am |
re: #55 Gus 802
Tim Fernholz and David Weigel: “Avatar”: Something for people of all political stripes to hate
I think Sharmuta would still be hot as a guy.
/there, I said it.
//also happy gifting day.
| 57 |
Gus Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:27:14am |
re: #56 laZardo
I think Sharmuta would still be hot as a guy.
/there, I said it.
//also happy gifting day.
Happy gifting day. Just got one gift. I always look forward to January 2nd. That's when America gets back to work.
Weigel was actually pretty good in this video. I'm still recovering from a previous video clip at Blogginheads. It was Peter Singer. He's like the Mother Theresa (per Hitchens) of the secular spectrum replete with his very own charity cases.
If that makes any sense.
| 59 |
Bagua Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:04:05am |
To All My Liberal Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or explicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2010, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.
To All My Conservative Friends:
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!
| 60 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:06:31am |
re: #57 Gus 802
Happy gifting day. Just got one gift. I always look forward to January 2nd. That's when America gets back to work.
Weigel was actually pretty good in this video. I'm still recovering from a previous video clip at Blogginheads. It was Peter Singer. He's like the Mother Theresa (per Hitchens) of the secular spectrum replete with his very own charity cases.
If that makes any sense.
Whoa, I think that makes sense...explain?
I'm a big fan of Weigel but never saw him before-- thanks for that.
Merry festivas Gus! I hope your holiday and present was shiny and bright.
| 61 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:15:50am |
I'm bringing this up again because it really bothers me. I don't get how someone would have a problem with an artist doing a single work of art combining piss and the cross, yet be completely ok with the fact that MandyManner's personal icon on a political website is Calvin pissing on the word Allah in Arabic.
Specifically, Dark Falcon, do you think what Mandy does is different, if so how, or do you consider her an asshole?
| 62 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:20:27am |
re: #61 suchislife
First, I never noticed what Calvin was pissing on. Second, you need to bring this up with Mandy. Man up. I don't need to defend her and I won't. She is a big girl.
| 63 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:23:00am |
re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar
I (and others) have. But you see, with some things, it's not just about who does it, but who supports it. So my beef is not just with Mandy. Still, I am perfectly happy to get back to other topics! Merry Christmas to you.
| 64 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:23:11am |
After people wake up, I will explain why my new $20 bill is important. And I will tie it in to AlGoreCoppenhagenManBearPig.
| 65 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:24:10am |
re: #61 suchislife
I'm bringing this up again because it really bothers me. I don't get how someone would have a problem with an artist doing a single work of art combining piss and the cross, yet be completely ok with the fact that MandyManner's personal icon on a political website is Calvin pissing on the word Allah in Arabic.
Specifically, Dark Falcon, do you think what Mandy does is different, if so how, or do you consider her an asshole?
It's not different at all. Actually, I would argue it is different in one sense: Serrano has the excuse of making art, (to whatever extent one finds that a mitigating factor I'll leave to the side).
That icon is offensive and there is no excuse for finding it less offensive than the equivalent ones showing Calvin pissing on the name of Jesus or G-d.
Mind you, I'll defend all three putative icons as fair comment and protected under free speech-- that doesn't mean I have to think they aren't offensive, crude, vulgar, and serve no point other than to be inflammatory and offensive.
But I reserve my special ire not for the icons themselves or those using them, but for anyone who wants to pretend that the one Mandy uses is somehow ok yet there's another standard when it's G-d's or Jesus's name being pissed on.
For the record, I highly doubt that DF would endorse any of those double standards.
| 66 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:27:48am |
re: #65 iceweasel
Yes. Also, all the best to you and Jimmah!
| 67 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:31:36am |
I am not a Christmas prude, but I am glad the day is over. Although, mom was exceptional with the menu. And my brothers GF did a tater salad. Hot.
| 68 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:34:11am |
re: #65 iceweasel
That icon is offensive and there is no excuse for finding it less offensive than the equivalent ones showing Calvin pissing on the name of Jesus or G-d.
I bet if I were to use an avatar like the one you just described, the very same people who would defend Mandy's or who would never think to object to it would be all over me.
| 69 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:37:14am |
re: #66 suchislife
Yes. Also, all the best to you and Jimmah!
Cheers from both of us, and in case you missed it - here's our wedding video:
Hope you are having a great holiday :)
| 70 |
laZardo Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:37:54am |
re: #64 Cannadian Club Akbar
After people wake up, I will explain why my new $20 bill is important. And I will tie it in to AlGoreCoppenhagenManBearPig.
There is no God but Algore, and Michaelmoore is his Prophet.
/repeat 3 times to become an ecomentalist. O:
//where i hang out online, there's no discrimination when it comes to faithbashing. q;
| 71 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:38:38am |
re: #68 Jimmah
I bet if I were to use an avatar like the one you just described, the very same people who would defend Mandy's or who would never think to object to it would be all over me.
So, Mandy's avatar is a Calvin pissing on Allah?
| 72 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:39:20am |
re: #68 Jimmah
I suppose that's more of a thought experiment, right? It would seem to me that this would be (in its intent) a lot like Killgore posting at Hot Air, but, Hot Air is a hate site. LGF is not. Killgore just wanted change. You also want to participate.
| 73 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:40:33am |
re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar
So, Mandy's avatar is a Calvin pissing on Allah?
Yes, that's exactly what it is - Calvin pissing on the name of Allah in Arabic.
| 74 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:45:52am |
re: #72 suchislife
I suppose that's more of a thought experiment, right? It would seem to me that this would be (in its intent) a lot like Killgore posting at
| 75 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:48:10am |
re: #72 suchislife
I suppose that's more of a thought experiment, right? It would seem to me that this would be (in its intent) a lot like Killgore posting at Hot Air, but, Hot Air is a hate site. LGF is not.
That's why it's imperative to point out the incongruity of such images appearing on LGF. They belong on hate sites. LGF is not a hate site.
No one here would excuse or defend that avatar if it showed Calvin pissing on the name of Jesus or Yahweh.
| 76 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:10:04am |
re: #75 Jimmah
I agree. But I would pursue it with different means, depending on who I address. Here, I would state my case and argue.
Still, when I lurked, I was the biggest fan of Spacejesus. He made me laugh.
Btw, here's something interesting I noticed: nobody excused or defended the icon. Instead, they defended Mandy's character without acknowledging the actual point of criticism. Now, I think that's a normal enough reaction for a community. But the question is, what happens next. Do people bring the criticized person in line? Do they distance themselves from the act, but not the person? Do they rally round and mob the critic?
| 77 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:10:14am |
My mom and Step Dad are so predictable. Coffee, the paper, bitching.
| 78 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:11:49am |
Why strain so verbosely and frivolously to make a futile point, when it could simply be done with the change of an avatar?
One simple picture, as contrast, could make a point. Or not.
| 79 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:12:08am |
re: #68 Jimmah
I bet if I were to use an avatar like the one you just described, the very same people who would defend Mandy's or who would never think to object to it would be all over me.
Yes. That's because an avatar showing Calvin pissing on the name of God, whether your God is Yahweh, Allah, Buddha, Jesus, or anyone, serves no purpose other than to be offensive and say "your God sucks". And I think that's incredibly disrespectful and offensive. I'm an atheist and I feel that way!
Some of the people taking the biggest risks in fighting fundamentalist and extremist Islamic ideology are Muslims-- especially Muslim women. I think it would be fantastic if LGF picked up some Muslim commentators. Such an avatar isn't going to make them feel welcome, and will only reinforce the perception that many on the left had, and that many are all too willing to promote, that LGF is some kind of Muslim-hating site.
| 80 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:14:00am |
re: #78 Slumbering Behemoth
Why strain so verbosely and frivolously to make a futile point, when it could simply be done with the change of an avatar?
One simple picture, as contrast, could make a point. Or not.
Yes, but only at the cost of committing the offense being pointed out: offending genuinely religious people.
As for your question, "why not change an avatar", perhaps it needs to be addressed to someone else.
| 82 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:20:51am |
re: #81 suchislife
oh, messed it up! dr, of course. That's what you get for trying to be clever.
| 83 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:20:53am |
re: #80 iceweasel
As for your question, "why not change an avatar", perhaps it needs to be addressed to someone else.
I asked no such question. I simply offered an alternative, a way of perhaps drawing out an admittance of some perceived hypocrisy.
| 84 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:22:30am |
re: #78 Slumbering Behemoth
Why strain so verbosely and frivolously to make a futile point, when it could simply be done with the change of an avatar?
One simple picture, as contrast, could make a point. Or not.
What do you mean by 'strain' 'verbose' 'frivolously'and ''futile?
I think the points have been made economically, thoughtfully and effectively. But if it is felt that I must abandon such efforts and simply upload an image of Calvin pissing on the word "Jesus" as my personal avatar, I can do that too.
| 85 |
laZardo Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:24:50am |
Good read for a petrolhead, paraphrasing that guy that interrupted Taylor Swift.
| 86 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:25:52am |
A subtle effort can make a person trip on their very tongue, perhaps even look foolish. Hammering on their head only makes their skull thicker.
| 87 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:30:00am |
re: #86 Slumbering Behemoth
A subtle effort can make a person trip on their very tongue, perhaps even look foolish. Hammering on their head only makes their skull thicker.
Some skulls are so thick that even the most relentless pounding won't get through, never mind 'subtlety'.
| 88 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:33:38am |
re: #83 Slumbering Behemoth
That would be entrapment. That's not how I relate to the people on this site. Also, there is no need for hypotheticals. My criticism stayed firmly on what actually happened. Beyond that, I asked questions.
But, I don't think Jimmah's speculation is baseless or unreasonable, and I'm very sure that it's not the core of his critique.
Part one of the critique, the point is that the icon is offensive, especially combined with calling out others for percieved insults to people of faith. I would also argue that a lot of people never saw it.
Part two of the critique is that when this was first brought up, some lizards chose to ignore it.
The double standard critique is one that I consider reasonable. But the same thing could be explained by allegiance to long time conversation partners, which I consider a good thing up to a point. And I think that the attitude towards Muslims on this blog has been so much in flux that I would hesitate to make any statement about the community in general, other than that right now, lizards try as hard not to be biased as I have ever seen an online community do.
| 89 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:36:00am |
re: #87 Jimmah
Some skulls are so thick that even the most relentless pounding won't get through, never mind 'subtlety'.
Obviously.
The point is not to get through to them, but to openly expose a flaw of theirs to others. Has this subtle idea penetrated your skull yet?
| 90 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:36:48am |
re: #89 Slumbering Behemoth
Obviously.
The point is not to get through to them, but to openly expose a flaw of theirs to others.
Whose point?
| 92 |
ryannon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:39:40am |
re: #19 Bagua
Since health care is such a big issue I’d like to share some insight as to why National Health in Britain is not on balance positive in my view.
I spoke with a close friend today who had recently seen his neurologist. He stated his partial paralysis is likely permanent, and too bad he didn’t have the problem operated on right away before the damage was done. My friend said to the Doctor “How could I have had it done sooner when they had me on NHS waiting lists?”
He detailed, three weeks wait for the MRI. Then three weeks for the doctor to read it, then another waiting list for the surgery. Three months wait in all for an acute condition and a permanent disability as a result. This is someone fully employed their entire life, and heavily taxed to fund for this benefit.
Universal health coverage sure as hell works in France.
| 93 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:40:09am |
re: #76 suchislife
I agree. But I would pursue it with different means, depending on who I address. Here, I would state my case and argue.
Still, when I lurked, I was the biggest fan of Spacejesus. He made me laugh.
Btw, here's something interesting I noticed: nobody excused or defended the icon. Instead, they defended Mandy's character without acknowledging the actual point of criticism. Now, I think that's a normal enough reaction for a community. But the question is, what happens next. Do people bring the criticized person in line? Do they distance themselves from the act, but not the person? Do they rally round and mob the critic?
Apparently they'll complain that the criticisms weren't made in a sbtle enough fashion. //
It's a nice way of changing the issue from the discussion of a clearly unacceptable avatar to the person(s) who made the criticism. Meanwhile the real issue (the avatar) won't be discussed at all while the thread degenerates into a flame war on those raising the issue.
re: #83 Slumbering Behemoth
I asked no such question. I simply offered an alternative, a way of perhaps drawing out an admittance of some perceived hypocrisy.
I don't think encouraging people to have avatars showing Calvin pissing on the names of G-d, Jesus, Buddha, and the Great Mother is an acceptable solution.
| 94 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:49:30am |
re: #89 Slumbering Behemoth
Obviously.
The point is not to get through to them, but to openly expose a flaw of theirs to others. Has this subtle idea penetrated your skull yet?
If the flaw has not been exposed in your mind, then clearly yours is the thick skull.
It has been pointed out before that that avatar is offensive. Suchislife has pointed out that this issue has been raised before and certain lizards chose to ignore it. Now we have lizards apologising for her and claiming that the real problem is that the critics of such images haven't made their case nicely or subtly enough.
Tell you what - if you think the argument can be made more subtly by posting an avatar of Calvin pissing on the word Jesus - you do it. Until then go piss up a rope.
Ps we can call it a Jesus rope if you think that is a more subtle criticism. How does that work for you?
| 95 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:53:28am |
Night folks! Best wishes for a happy holiday, whatever your faith or lack thereof.
| 96 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:08:48am |
re: #88 suchislife
I do not consider it "entrapment", as you put it, but a tweek of sorts on the Socratic Method. If you have a point of debate to make, I see nothing wrong with tricking your opponent into making it for you. This technique sometimes requires baiting questions, or in this case, images. I consider this a valid method of debate.
"Part one of the critique", as you say, points to a perceived hypocrisy. I think this is valid, and I think this could be painfully illustrated in a subtle way. Done well, it could make the target look like a fool. Just sayin'.
"Part two of the critique", as you say, is likely true. A cartoon peeing on this religious symbol, a cartoon peeing on that religious symbol... I too couldn't give a crap. It means little to me.
Double standards exist. We see this every season with the "WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!1!", while not a single mention is made of Hanukkah, or Kwanzaa, or Saturnalia, or... take your pick.
I am simply suggesting a way, perhaps a silly and childish way, of getting a debate opponent to display their own hypocrisy by drawing them into making a point that invalidates their position.
Happy Holidays, Seasons Greetings, And What Not!
/WAR ON HANUKKAH!!1!
| 97 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:18:40am |
re: #94 Jimmah
:thump, thump: No joy.
I do get your point, but you fail to get mine. Keep pounding that hammer as you like, you clearly do not want nor need my advice. Carry on, and Merry Christmas.
| 98 |
laZardo Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:21:29am |
re: #92 ryannon
Hell, sure, but not EXTREAM SUNBURN.
/these systems need constant reform, as it were, to become more efficient and minimize the fuel for the private industry's agitprop machines.
| 99 |
Taqyia2Me Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:25:33am |
If Mandy had a fan club, I would join, avatar and all!
| 101 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:48:45am |
"Part one of the critique", as you say, points to a perceived hypocrisy. I think this is valid, and I think this could be painfully illustrated in a subtle way. Done well, it could make the target look like a fool. Just sayin'.Double standards exist. We see this every season with the "WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!1!", while not a single mention is made of Hanukkah, or Kwanzaa, or Saturnalia, or... take your pick.
Yeah, we see no mention of the war on Saturnalia etc because...there is no war on any of those holidays, any more than there is a War on Christmas.
Wingnuts like to pretend there is a war on Christmas. I don't see them frothing over and hissing like a broken espresso machine everytime a clerk at WalMart fails to say Happy Hanukkah. Why is that? --
They reserve their fauxrage for the War on Christmas, just like the double standard that makes no noise over a pic of Calvin pissing on the name of God....so long as it's Allah, not Jesus.
I'd say the point has been made. Your avatar suggestion is noted.
| 102 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:49:41am |
re: #100 Sharmuta
My favorite scene...
"Try not to be so negative all the time, why don't you offer some... constructive criticism".
| 103 |
JoyousMN Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:52:02am |
Good morning all and a belated Merry Christmas! I managed to stay off the computer most of the day and had a lovely time with my family.
Am getting ready to put sourdough loaves in the oven to bake and take for our family get together. I'm hoping the MN DOT has the roads pretty clear by now. We stayed at home through the past two days, although it didn't get quite as bad as they predicted.
| 104 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:56:28am |
re: #99 Taqyia2Me
If Mandy had a fan club, I would join, avatar and all!
Boy, Mandy's avatar has been the subject of a lot of discussion lately. Within the last month... before that? Very rare.
What's up with that? It's been here for years...
Has anyone been around to hear "PBUH (Peace be upon him)" from Lizards?
Piss be upon him
Pox be upon him
Pit-bull be upon him
Pestilence be upon him
...hence the Avatar.
Calm down.
| 105 |
JoyousMN Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:02:51am |
re: #104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Boy, Mandy's avatar has been the subject of a lot of discussion lately. Within the last month... before that? Very rare.
What's up with that? It's been here for years...
FBV, do you think the site participants are changing? I have lurked here, then become a member for only the past 4-5 months. In that time it seems like there have been more moderate/liberals joining. But I'm really new here, so am curious if that seems true to you.
| 106 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:03:03am |
re: #104 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Boy, Mandy's avatar has been the subject of a lot of discussion lately. Within the last month... before that? Very rare.
What's up with that? It's been here for years...
Because now a lot of the people who thought that avatar was high-lair-ious have (rightfully) been banned.
It's not funny.
| 107 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:05:23am |
re: #106 iceweasel
I didn't say it was funny. I said it has been here for years.
| 108 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:05:46am |
re: #105 JoyousMN
Not necessarily bad, but, yes, it's changing.
| 109 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:11:49am |
I wonder if the Mandy avatar will be the next "outrage" thing on LGF. I hope not.
Think about this, folks who are concerned that our Muslim brethren may be offended by this...
Our Muslim brethren will be offended by most things that are said on this site regarding Muslims whether avatars are the same or not.
Maybe Mandy can find a picture of Muhammad pissing on a woman. Would that be better?
| 110 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:13:34am |
re: #105 JoyousMN
FBV, do you think the site participants are changing? I have lurked here, then become a member for only the past 4-5 months. In that time it seems like there have been more moderate/liberals joining. But I'm really new here, so am curious if that seems true to you.
We have many more moderates and liberals here now than in the past. LGF was slimed by many left sites for years, usually as being 'racist' or 'bigoted' or 'hating Muslims'; with Charles calling out the right of late, many (left-ish) people who never looked at LGF before have been looking, and learning that it isn't what they thought-- and they're registering.
To be clear, LGF never was a site that endorsed those things, (and Charles himself always repudiated such talk) but there were a very few (now banned) commenters who did talk that way, and who are almost entirely responsible for that bad image. There were and are also people on the left who are happy to portray LGF in those ways and don't mind cherry-picking comments (or avatar images) to smear LGF. They'd be delighted to continue to do it too.
There has been a massive turnover here in the last six months, primarily involving people who loved LGF for being anti-idiotarian when the only idiots who got called out were idiots on the left. It's hard for the established (mostly conservative) commentariat to deal with, and it manifests sometimes in these sorts of issues.
| 111 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:14:00am |
re: #109 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Maybe Mandy can find a picture of Muhammad pissing on a woman. Would that be better?
No.
| 112 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:21:07am |
re: #107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I didn't say it was funny. I said it has been here for years.
So what?
I can think of quite a few assholes who 'had been here for years' who are now banned (deservedly so), and quite a few revolting comments that had been up here for years which are now also gone. None of that ever proved anything about LGF except that Charles really dislikes playing cop and idealistically thought that if he allowed all speech, the sane speech would prevail.
Not so. As a quick look at the comments section of any blog of similar size shows-- because none of them have the same level of moderation.
I think it's a losing strategy to defend that icon on the grounds that 'it's been here for ages and people didn't object then'. Just sayin.
| 113 |
JoyousMN Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:22:13am |
I used to work in community access tv. Y'all know, Wayne's World. LOL If someone turned in a program, we aired it. It might go on at 1am, but it went on as long as it didn't violate any laws. We had atheists editing next door to fundamentalists and on breaks they would all sit together in the common room and talk about how to make tv. I loved that.
I think that Mandy has the right to display whatever icon she chooses. I also think that some people will be offended by it, and talk about it. That's what happens when you express your opinion.
*shrug* I don't really care one way or the other...just throwing in .02
| 114 |
SixDegrees Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:25:57am |
Gee. Another joyous morning of manufactured outrage.
Seems like the proclivity for nontroversy pretty much spans the political spectrum these days.
| 115 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:27:34am |
re: #113 JoyousMN
I think that Mandy has the right to display whatever icon she chooses. I also think that some people will be offended by it, and talk about it. That's what happens when you express your opinion.
Absolutely, and I will defend her right to display it, and defend it as free speech and fair comment-- but it's only as defensible as the same icon involving the name of Jesus or any other deity, and all should be considered equally protected, and equally offensive (if one even finds them offensive at all, rather than commentary).
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
| 116 |
JoyousMN Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:30:06am |
re: #114 SixDegrees
Gee. Another joyous morning of manufactured outrage.
Seems like the proclivity for nontroversy pretty much spans the political spectrum these days.
Your use of the word "joyous" seems like you're implying that I'm piling on on the icon issue...hopefully that's not what you meant.
| 117 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:30:31am |
re: #113 JoyousMN
PS Very happy holidays to you and your family and I hope the health situation is improving-- how are you all?
| 118 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:30:32am |
I've also seen people who have been here for many years worked into an absolute frenzy (on purpose) by new people here trying to get them to say something outrageous.
I guess the largest problem I have with the subject at hand, is they are not here to defend themselves.
Pretty bad form, that.
I'm a dullard. Pretty hard to bait me.
| 120 |
JoyousMN Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:32:01am |
re: #117 iceweasel
Thanks for asking. We're well and hoping for an uneventful (healthwise) year.
| 121 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:32:02am |
re: #106 iceweasel
Because now a lot of the people who thought that avatar was high-lair-ious have (rightfully) been banned.
Glad you approve.
| 122 |
SixDegrees Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:32:09am |
re: #116 JoyousMN
Not at all. I hadn't even noted your screen name until you mentioned it, and my comment wasn't directed at you in the least.
| 123 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:32:53am |
| 125 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:34:31am |
re: #123 iceweasel
Not up to me to approve or disapprove. Not my site.
| 127 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:36:50am |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I've also seen people who have been here for many years worked into an absolute frenzy (on purpose) by new people here trying to get them to say something outrageous.
Bollocks. People who have been here for a while lost their shit when Charles didn't conform to the wingnut line, or when they were confronted with opinions that didn't conform with their own. They have no one but themselves to blame if they melted down and flounced-- or got themselves banned.
re: #125 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not up to me to approve or disapprove. Not my site.
Indeed. Nor mine. That's the point, no?
| 129 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:40:44am |
You can calculate the worth of a man by the number of his enemies, and the importance of a work of art by the harm that is spoken of it.
— Gustave Flaubert
Everything changes but the avant garde.
-- Paul Valery
| 130 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:41:22am |
To the hospital to see the FIL... y'all have fun 'til I get back!
| 131 |
SixDegrees Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:42:44am |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I guess the largest problem I have with the subject at hand, is they are not here to defend themselves.Pretty bad form, that.
Yes, I noticed that myself. What's the word I'm looking for...something about being behind someone...with a sharp object...it's on the tip of my tongue...
| 132 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:43:23am |
re: #130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
To the hospital to see the FIL... y'all have fun 'til I get back!
Take care FBV-- best wishes to you and yours. Still catching up on the goings on here. I hope your FIL is ok and that there is much Tofurkey and mushroom gravy for all.
| 134 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:44:55am |
re: #133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Tofurkey Rocks!
Totally. Jimmah doesn't know it, but he will have a Tofurkey for a meal soon, oh yes. :-)
| 135 |
JoyousMN Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:45:27am |
LOL...I was veg for about 5 years. Not sure I can agree that tofuturkey "rocks." Have a lovely day.
| 137 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:46:37am |
| 138 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:47:41am |
re: #131 SixDegrees
Yes, I noticed that myself. What's the word I'm looking for...something about being behind someone...with a sharp object...it's on the tip of my tongue...
Those who are absent have their faults, those who are present have their excuses.
| 139 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:47:50am |
re: #133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Also seitan. :-)
| 140 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:49:00am |
re: #138 The Sanity Inspector
Those who are absent have their
faultsdefenders, those who are present have theirexcusesreasons.
| 141 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:53:12am |
re: #137 The Sanity Inspector
Notice that only the Israeli news source attempts to provide any context. The others just portray the IDF as hatey-hating killbots, as usual.
| 142 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:57:47am |
OK. Here is why my $20 bill I got for Christmas was important. My electric bill was $18.29. I understand how electricity works. So back off. I also recycle. So back off. I also understand how ManBearPig tries to tell me how to live life. I think I might be doing it already. So, AlGore is still a douchebag. Good morning to ya'll!!
| 143 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 5:59:15am |
re: #115 iceweasel
Absolutely, and I will defend her right to display it, and defend it as free speech and fair comment-- but it's only as defensible as the same icon involving the name of Jesus or any other deity, and all should be considered equally protected, and equally offensive (if one even finds them offensive at all, rather than commentary).
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Well, one obvious difference is this: Mandy's icon isn't costing us money, unlike the NEA artists who concoct their transgressive art on the public dime.
| 144 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:03:25am |
re: #141 The Sanity Inspector
Notice that only the Israeli news source attempts to provide any context. The others just portray the IDF as hatey-hating killbots, as usual.
Do you think the US MSM always does that about the IDF in particular?
I thought only the jpost link (as usual) gave the real context and background, and I have to say that I think the MSM sucks in general when reporting 'foreign' news, especially when reporting on sectarian conflict. They fuck it up when reporting on Israel, yes, but they also always did when reporting on Ireland too.
Some of this is about the MSM just sucking in general-- sloppy reporting geared towards the lowest common denominator in understanding, so soundbites and 45 seconds tops for any story are the preferred standards.
| 145 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:04:43am |
re: #144 iceweasel
Good Morning Lizards!
Morning Lady Icedub
| 146 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:08:35am |
re: #145 HoosierHoops
Good Morning Lizards!
Morning Lady Icedub
hey sunshine! How are you, sir hoops a lot? Hope you had a lovely holiday and will have a great weekend.
| 147 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:09:32am |
re: #145 HoosierHoops
Morning Hoops! Never got to mow the yard. Tomorrow, perhaps.
| 148 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:10:25am |
re: #146 iceweasel
hey sunshine! How are you, sir hoops a lot? Hope you had a lovely holiday and will have a great weekend.
I have another week of Holiday...Hope today finds you well
| 149 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:11:03am |
re: #147 Cannadian Club Akbar
Morning Hoops! Never got to mow the yard. Tomorrow, perhaps.
just back from the store..Ice on the roads..No snow!
| 150 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:14:35am |
re: #148 HoosierHoops
I have another week of Holiday...Hope today finds you well
Hey Hoosier ..... I don't celebrate Christmas, but I got two great presents yesterday: a Celtics win and a Lakers loss ...
| 151 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:16:28am |
By the way ..... for what it's worth ... Mandy is one of my favorite posters. You may not agree with her, but you know where she stands.
| 152 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:17:36am |
re: #150 _RememberTonyC
Hey Hoosier ... I don't celebrate Christmas, but I got two great presents yesterday: a Celtics win and a Lakers loss ...
Isn't christmas games the best? The NBA matches up the best teams..or best stories like Shaq vs. Kobe..
The NFL trots out the same old crappy games on Thanksgiving..oh boy we get to watch the Lions? Shoot me!
Good Morning!
| 153 |
Cathypop Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:18:56am |
re: #149 HoosierHoops
just back from the store..Ice on the roads..No snow!
Did you get a white Christmas or just ice?
Morning Lizards. It's going to be sunny and maybe into the 60's here!
| 154 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:20:33am |
re: #153 Cathypop
Did you get a white Christmas or just ice?
Morning Lizards. It's going to be sunny and maybe into the 60's here!
Good morning..just rain that froze overnight...I'll get a white christmas some day
| 155 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:21:21am |
re: #152 HoosierHoops
Isn't christmas games the best? The NBA matches up the best teams..or best stories like Shaq vs. Kobe..
The NFL trots out the same old crappy games on Thanksgiving..oh boy we get to watch the Lions? Shoot me!
Good Morning!
Don't know if you saw any of the Cavs/Lakers game, but the Staples Center "fans" were tossing things on the court when it because clear that LA was going to lose. They acted like a bunch of spoiled rich kids who didn't get their way. It was ugly and beautiful all at once!
| 156 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:21:29am |
re: #151 _RememberTonyC
By the way ... for what it's worth ... Mandy is one of my favorite posters. You may not agree with her, but you know where she stands.
I never knew or cared about Mandy's avatar. So the people bitching can piss off.
| 157 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:23:09am |
re: #155 _RememberTonyC
Don't know if you saw any of the Cavs/Lakers game, but the Staples Center "fans" were tossing things on the court when it because clear that LA was going to lose. They acted like a bunch of spoiled rich kids who didn't get their way. It was ugly and beautiful all at once!
I loved watching the Lakers lose.. Poor babies
| 158 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:24:10am |
re: #156 Cannadian Club Akbar
I never knew or cared about Mandy's avatar. So the people bitching can piss off.
I've noticed it, but considering some of the atrocities committed by the RoP, I considered it pretty benign. And knowing how careful Charles is about what appears here, if he had a problem with it, I'm sure he would have told Mandy and the ball would then have been in her court. Mandy rocks.
| 159 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:26:12am |
| 160 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:28:12am |
My niece got a Taylor Swift CD yesterday. Wanna guess what is beating my eardrums?
| 161 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:29:31am |
re: #160 Cannadian Club Akbar
My niece got a Taylor Swift CD yesterday. Wanna guess what is beating my eardrums?
you could counter with some kanye west ...
| 162 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:31:52am |
| 163 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:36:43am |
re: #152 HoosierHoops
Isn't christmas games the best? The NBA matches up the best teams..or best stories like Shaq vs. Kobe..
The NFL trots out the same old crappy games on Thanksgiving..oh boy we get to watch the Lions? Shoot me!
Good Morning!
and the Cowboys!
| 164 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:38:35am |
Taylor Swift ain't to bad. Still, she is bubblegum.
| 165 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:39:42am |
re: #163 cliffster
and the Cowboys!
The NFL should play the final 4 teams from the previous playoffs for thanksgiving day...2nd game should be a replay of the SuperBowl
| 166 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:40:04am |
Man, the same people at mom's yesterday are here today.
| 167 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:41:25am |
re: #165 HoosierHoops
The NFL should play the final 4 teams from the previous playoffs for thanksgiving day...2nd game should be a replay of the SuperBowl
Wow and Holy Shit!! That is a great idea.
| 168 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:41:58am |
re: #165 HoosierHoops
The NFL should play the final 4 teams from the previous playoffs for thanksgiving day...2nd game should be a replay of the SuperBowl
I like the way you think. Especially since John Madden isn't doing the coverage, so there's no 6 legged turkey. Nothing to hold onto.
| 169 |
lawhawk Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:42:10am |
re: #144 iceweasel
I think it is laziness on their part, coupled with stringers and their editorial board having an anti-Israel bent; it's the way that the Western news agencies and media outlets get their news and what they choose to cover. Moreover, if you really wanted an accurate reporting, you'd see the same reports that note that the al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB) was behind the terror attack was also a part of Fatah; they're the "military wing" of Fatah, which is to say Fatah itself.
It's so much easier to report when Israel returns fire on the terrorists than to report that terrorists tried to kill Israelis (but are usually unsuccessful in their attempts); Israel is much more successful in killing terrorists, and often does so in airstrikes or in operations like the one that killed the AAMB thugs.
| 170 |
lawhawk Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:43:20am |
re: #167 Cannadian Club Akbar
That's a pretty good idea, except that the NFL has these traditions to uphold, like the Turkey day massacre of the Lions.
| 171 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:46:37am |
re: #170 lawhawk
That's a pretty good idea, except that the NFL has these traditions to uphold, like the Turkey day massacre of the Lions.
If the NFL doesn't moderize the schedule nobody will be watching thanksgiving day football in the future..They could also rotate the teams for prime time matchups on turkey day
| 172 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:47:47am |
| 174 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:49:10am |
| 175 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:49:34am |
re: #171 HoosierHoops
If the NFL doesn't moderize the schedule nobody will be watching thanksgiving day football in the future..They could also rotate the teams for prime time matchups on turkey day
Problem being, the NFL doesn't know who will suck.
| 176 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:49:56am |
| 177 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:50:39am |
re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar
Problem being, the NFL doesn't know who will suck.
The Raiders will suck. This much is guaranteed.
| 178 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:50:41am |
re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar
Problem being, the NFL doesn't know who will suck.
And BTW, the Bucs rule!! or not:(
| 179 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:50:44am |
Morning all. Just a quick drive by to say that I hope you all had a very Merry Christmas.
L8R
| 180 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:51:36am |
re: #177 cliffster
The Raiders will suck. This much is guaranteed.
Don't say that in front of Hoops!!!
| 181 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:52:20am |
re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar
Don't say that in front of Hoops!!!
I thought Hoops was in for the Colts.
| 182 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:52:24am |
re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar
Problem being, the NFL doesn't know who will suck.
Yet they do pretty well picking out good matchups for Sunday and Monday night games... Ever notice how rarely a suck team is on Monday night?
They kindof know good matchups...Or my idea of the final 4 teams of the last playoffs...Revenge factor plays in also...
| 183 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:53:49am |
re: #181 cliffster
I thought Hoops was in for the Colts.
I root for the hometeam..but I grew up in California..So the Raiders have a special place in my heart....
| 184 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:54:08am |
re: #174 HoosierHoops
What's kick'n Chicken?
Same ol' same ol'. Asked Sometimes Girlfriend about accepting the position of Permanent Girlfriend. She's not ready for commitment, too busy to be fair to me, etc. I even offered her a signing bonus and a benefits package.
| 185 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:54:15am |
| 186 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:56:27am |
re: #184 SteveC
Same ol' same ol'. Asked Sometimes Girlfriend about accepting the position of Permanent Girlfriend. She's not ready for commitment, too busy to be fair to me, etc. I even offered her a signing bonus and a benefits package.
How about a player to be named later?
/Baby you don't wanna play I can bring up Megan Fox from the Minor leagues..
have your people call my people and do lunch
| 187 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:57:19am |
If I saw this I would be shitting bricks!
Schuringa said he saw that Abdulmutallab had his pants open and he was holding a burning object between his legs.
| 188 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:57:36am |
re: #184 SteveC
Same ol' same ol'. Asked Sometimes Girlfriend about accepting the position of Permanent Girlfriend. She's not ready for commitment, too busy to be fair to me, etc. I even offered her a signing bonus and a benefits package.
I call bullshit. Move forward.
| 189 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:58:04am |
| 190 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 6:59:52am |
re: #186 HoosierHoops
How about a player to be named later?
/Baby you don't wanna play I can bring up Megan Fox from the Minor leagues..
have your people call my people and do lunch
I got a feeling that when it is all said and done, she's not going to be on the team. Despite that, she's still pretty cool.
| 191 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:00:54am |
My niece just made me figure out the CD player. I get to hear Taylor Swift again. Joy!!!
| 192 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:01:31am |
re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar
My niece just made me figure out the CD player. I get to hear Taylor Swift again. Joy!!!
sometimes a power failure is a blessing ...
| 194 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:06:58am |
re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar
My niece just made me figure out the CD player. I get to hear Taylor Swift again. Joy!!!
Might as well slip in the sound track to Hustle&Flow...
/No baby niece an ice cream pop isn't what you think it is....No Honey..You don't need a pimp to crack the street in the Caddy..
Count your blessings it's Taylor Swift
| 195 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:07:19am |
re: #192 _RememberTonyC
sometimes a power failure is a blessing ...
I got her to use her powers of eyesight against her. Looking for Kings of Leon.
| 196 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:09:08am |
LoL while trying to catch up before wishing everyone a very good morning. Hilarious.
Good morning, Lizards
| 197 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:09:15am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
I got her to use her powers of eyesight against her. Looking for Kings of Leon.
Got it.
| 199 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:10:16am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
I got her to use her powers of eyesight against her. Looking for Kings of Leon.
sneaky ...
| 200 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:10:38am |
| 201 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:10:49am |
i couldn't resist ...
[Link: www.cartoonistgroup.com...]
| 202 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:13:21am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
I got her to use her powers of eyesight against her. Looking for Kings of Leon.
I liked the King of Leon for about 2 weeks...
Then I couldn't get that stupid ass song out of my head..
You gonna need somebody
Need Somebody
Somebody like youuuu
After beating my head in with a 10" pot i was able to finally get the song out of my head...oh..crap here it comes again..Gotta make a quick run to the Kitchen for cooking ware..
| 203 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:13:35am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
I got her to use her powers of eyesight against her. Looking for Kings of Leon.
I have only heard Kings of Leon at my mom's house. I walked in one day and it was on. This is cool. My mom rocks.
| 205 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:14:55am |
| 206 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:19:54am |
To our lizards across the pond: Happy Boxing Day.
| 207 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:22:04am |
We're heading down to the "Little Caesar's Bowl" at Ford Field in a bit. Ohio University versus Marshall. Not exactly a marquee matchup there. haven't decided who I'm going to root for yet so I'm taking suggestions, otherwise I'm going to root for whichever team has more drunk at noon patrons near our seats or for a tiebreaker whichever school has the better band. Me and the boys love the College football scene and have been to all the Motor City bowls even though there sure as heck isn't much to root for around here these days.
| 208 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:22:49am |
Me like the Kings of Leon CD. As well as Taylor Swift. I don't listen to much radio and that won't change. Except in the AM. Then my radio talks to me. The lamps don't, though.
| 209 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:23:33am |
re: #207 Mich-again
We're heading down to the "Little Caesar's Bowl" at Ford Field in a bit. Ohio University versus Marshall. Not exactly a marquee matchup there. haven't decided who I'm going to root for yet so I'm taking suggestions, otherwise I'm going to root for whichever team has more drunk at noon patrons near our seats or for a tiebreaker whichever school has the better band. Me and the boys love the College football scene and have been to all the Motor City bowls even though there sure as heck isn't much to root for around here these days.
Just yell 'We Are Marshall' once during the game
| 210 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:24:00am |
re: #206 PhillyPretzel
To our lizards across the pond: Happy Boxing Day.
And to those across the river as well.
| 211 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:24:17am |
re: #207 Mich-again
Go for the team whose fans offer you a beer first.
| 212 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:24:38am |
re: #207 Mich-again
We're heading down to the "Little Caesar's Bowl" at Ford Field in a bit.
Root for the Pizza!
| 213 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:26:44am |
| 214 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:27:09am |
re: #207 Mich-again
We're heading down to the "Little Caesar's Bowl" at Ford Field in a bit. Ohio University versus Marshall. Not exactly a marquee matchup there. haven't decided who I'm going to root for yet so I'm taking suggestions, otherwise I'm going to root for whichever team has more drunk at noon patrons near our seats or for a tiebreaker whichever school has the better band. Me and the boys love the College football scene and have been to all the Motor City bowls even though there sure as heck isn't much to root for around here these days.
I've always liked a happy home crowd in their home stadium but, in this case, I think I would root for the designated home team. Whatever, I do wish you see a close, high scoring, see-saw game with a lot of happy people at the finish.
| 216 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:28:44am |
re: #213 Mich-again
Oh for sure.
Good Man..We should never forget the tragedy of the Marshall Football team...
| 217 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:29:49am |
re: #216 HoosierHoops
Good Man..We should never forget the tragedy of the Marshall Football team...
Are you referring to the plane crash or to this season?
| 218 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:30:46am |
My niece is going to the store. I asked her to get me reading glasses. Evil plans never stop.
| 219 |
lawhawk Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:31:12am |
For the first time in 3 years, they were able to reenact Washington's crossing of the Delaware. The past couple of years it was either too windy or the river conditions weren't right to safely make the crossing, which was immortalized in this famous painting and marked a turning point in the Revolutionary War as until that point Washington had been on the run from the Brits since the Battle of Long Island and Brooklyn.
| 220 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:31:49am |
re: #214 Semper Fi
We were at Ford Field for the MAC championship game a few weeks back to see Central Michigan beat Ohio. Dan LeFevour from CMU was the star of that game and may just have a chance at the NFL next year. We were surrounded by heavily intoxicated CMU fans who were obviously digging the novelty of having beer served at a college game. Hopefully the crowd today is half as fun as that mob was.
| 221 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:35:45am |
re: #219 lawhawk
For the first time in 3 years, they were able to reenact Washington's crossing of the Delaware. The past couple of years it was either too windy or the river conditions weren't right to safely make the crossing, which was immortalized in this famous painting and marked a turning point in the Revolutionary War as until that point Washington had been on the run from the Brits since the Battle of Long Island and Brooklyn.
What's the holdup, Col. Glover?
It's too dangerous to cross tonight, General.
Even for a Marblehead fisherman? Damn you, man! Damn you!
| 222 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:38:14am |
re: #220 Mich-again
We were surrounded by heavily intoxicated CMU fans who were obviously digging the novelty of having beer served at a college game. Hopefully the crowd today is half as fun as that mob was.
Reminds me...the downside of so called bowl games I've found is that the real 'fans' have sold their tickets to tourists thus the spirit is lacking. I'm not thinking you have a tourist problem, just sayin'.
| 223 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:38:18am |
My paycheck was short 200 plus dollars. But me happy.
| 224 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:39:24am |
re: #219 lawhawk
I wonder if in 1776 in England, the attack by the insurgents led by George Washington on Christmas day was viewed as some kind of "terrorism".
| 225 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:40:55am |
re: #223 Cannadian Club Akbar
My paycheck was short 200 plus dollars. But me happy.
I'd be happy too. Next check will be just that much larger.
| 226 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:41:17am |
re: #224 Mich-again
I wonder if in 1776 in England, the attack by the insurgents led by George Washington on Christmas day was viewed as some kind of "terrorism".
Not when Freedom is the outcome. See Neda Sultan.
| 227 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:41:58am |
re: #222 Semper Fi
I'm not thinking you have a tourist problem, just sayin'.
The D is not exactly a typical tourist destination. I'd guess all the people who are actually flying in for the game and not driving up I75 could fit in a Cessena.
| 228 |
Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:43:16am |
re: #224 Mich-again
I would not think so. They went after a military target in a declared war. Sneak attacks were ok.
| 229 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:43:26am |
re: #224 Mich-again
I wonder if in 1776 in England, the attack by the insurgents led by George Washington on Christmas day was viewed as some kind of "terrorism".
It was not admired or appreciated. Armies in those times formed winter camp (Think Valley Forge, hopefully without all the misery) and didn't come out until spring. Washington's sneak attack was unheard of, unethical, immoral, and just not done!
| 230 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:44:45am |
re: #50 Gus 802
Pretty slow here tonight.
I have an idea. Let's invade France.
//
"Your brother kings and monarchs of the earth
Do all expect that you should rouse yourself,
As did the former lions of your blood."
| 231 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:46:03am |
Barnes & Noble is having a 50% after Christmas sale. Special discounts for online shoppers.
2009 calenders are very reasonably priced! :)
| 232 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:46:27am |
re: #229 SteveC
It was not admired or appreciated. Armies in those times formed winter camp (Think Valley Forge, hopefully without all the misery) and didn't come out until spring. Washington's sneak attack was unheard of, unethical, immoral, and just not done!
And opened a can of Whoop Ass.
| 233 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:46:29am |
re: #229 SteveC
It was not admired or appreciated. Armies in those times formed winter camp (Think Valley Forge, hopefully without all the misery) and didn't come out until spring. Washington's sneak attack was unheard of, unethical, immoral, and just not done!
Weren't Americans the first ones to hide behind trees when firing on the enemy instead of providing a long line of targets?
| 234 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:48:31am |
re: #233 Semper Fi
Weren't Americans the first ones to hide behind trees when firing on the enemy instead of providing a long line of targets?
Yep! Chicken hearted sons of bitches, wouldn't stand like men and fight fair!
| 235 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:50:01am |
re: #234 SteveC
Yep! Chicken hearted sons of bitches, wouldn't stand like men and fight fair!
Americans are innovative, plus, we probably didn't even stand still.
| 236 |
abolitionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:50:04am |
re: #219 lawhawk
I very much liked the made for TV movie, The Crossing (1 minute trailer here)
| 237 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:52:42am |
re: #233 Semper Fi
Weren't Americans the first ones to hide behind trees when firing on the enemy instead of providing a long line of targets?
I thought the tactics in the Revolutionary war were better than the insane methods used in the civil war. Using rows of soldiers as human shields while the army marched close enough to charge. Just plain dumb in my opinion.
| 238 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:53:16am |
re: #236 abolitionist
I very much liked the made for TV movie, The Crossing (1 minute trailer here)
That movie is awesome!
Move your fat ass, Henry. Don't swing your balls or you'll swamp the boat.
| 239 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:55:38am |
re: #73 Jimmah
Yes, that's exactly what it is - Calvin pissing on the name of Allah in Arabic.
Muslims actually believe Allah and God are the same entity. They differ from Christians in that they believe that Jesus walked the earth and was a prophet(like Mohammed was), but just not that he was the son of god. So pissing on Allah is also pissing on God. I don't expect people who think one is okay and the other not would ever understand that and won't try to explain it to them, but there it is.
Oh and happy Boxing Day.
| 240 |
Taqyia2Me Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:58:44am |
re: #239 darthstar
Not to put word's into Mandy's mouth but is not her avatar an opinion of what those extremist Muslims are doing to their own religion (allah and islam)???
| 241 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:59:11am |
re: #235 Semper Fi
Americans are innovative, plus, we probably didn't even stand still.
"They say the the sons must be the burden of the Father. A murderer to murder. A thief to theft. And I'm not asking for absolution. But run is what I did when put to the test."
Cowboy Junkies
Not Me!!
| 242 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:59:18am |
So we surrender. We weigh the pros and cons and reason prevails. But you see, sir, I am an unreasonable man as well as a poor soldier. But you are right. My men are not soldiers. They are lads. Sixteen, seventeen, eighteen. They run away. They fear the Hessians as they fear death. All this is true. Yet they have put their trust in me. They could have deserted. Thousands have. But these lads have not. They remain with me. And I, not you, General Gates, I command this army, and if I, a bumbling Virginia farmer, should decide to lead them into Hell, they will follow me into Hell. - Jeff Daniels (As General George Washington)
| 243 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 7:59:53am |
re: #239 darthstar
Their version of God is so far removed from the Christian God there is no resemblance whatsoever.
| 244 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:00:20am |
re: #239 darthstar
Muslims actually believe Allah and God are the same entity. They differ from Christians in that they believe that Jesus walked the earth and was a prophet(like Mohammed was), but just not that he was the son of god. So pissing on Allah is also pissing on God. I don't expect people who think one is okay and the other not would ever understand that and won't try to explain it to them, but there it is.
Oh and happy Boxing Day.
Mandy's avatar is fine. Or do you think that we should have avatar terms of service here?
| 245 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:00:21am |
re: #237 Mich-again
I thought the tactics in the Revolutionary war were better than the insane methods used in the civil war. Using rows of soldiers as human shields while the army marched close enough to charge. Just plain dumb in my opinion.
Yes! Hard to believe. So many had almost no chance.
| 246 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:03:57am |
re: #245 Semper Fi
Yes! Hard to believe. So many had almost no chance.
They didn't even hold up planks of wood as shields or crawl across the ground. They marched upright shoulder to shoulder as if to say, go ahead and waste your ammunition on us. We have more soldiers than you can shoot. Stupid. And those were supposedly the great military minds of their time. I think they were all educated to the point of stupidity in how to fight a battle.
| 247 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:04:30am |
re: #241 Cannadian Club Akbar
"They say the the sons must be the burden of the Father. A murderer to murder. A thief to theft. And I'm not asking for absolution. But run is what I did when put to the test."
Cowboy Junkies
Not Me!!
I've heard something like that: Run and live to fight another day.
| 248 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:05:20am |
I hope this doesn't lead to derailing the thread or anything. I would just like to respond to something posted earlier, in reaction to my critique:
I think it's weird to say that things get posted "behind people's backs". I mentioned this before when Mandy was there. Here, I was specifically asking Dark Falcon a question that pertained to what he posted a few minutes earlier, even though I then realized he was already gone.
I also find it weird to say that people "try to get others to say bad things". I mean, obviously there is such a thing as a suggestive question. "When did you stop beating your wife?"
But there is also such a thing as someone revealing their ignorance/bias on a certain subject, and then blaming it on the person who asked the question. See S. Palin, "the media made me tell bullshit by asking gotcha questions."
It's hard to always be impartial enough to tell the difference.
Now, a lot of people obviously think there's a lot of the former going on, but I have yet to see someone explain it linking to those attempts. cont
| 249 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:05:50am |
re: #244 Walter L. Newton
Mandy's avatar is fine. Or do you think that we should have avatar terms of service here?
If anyone has a problem with Mandy's avatar, they can bite me. I never noticed. But then again they probobly think I drink a bunch. And I don't.
| 250 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:06:16am |
re: #246 Mich-again
They didn't even hold up planks of wood as shields or crawl across the ground. They marched upright shoulder to shoulder as if to say, go ahead and waste your ammunition on us. We have more soldiers than you can shoot. Stupid. And those were supposedly the great military minds of their time. I think they were all educated to the point of stupidity in how to fight a battle.
And to think that just a generation or two before they had confounded the British by hiding behind trees and moving around, because they knew if they stood toe to toe with the Brits they'd be torn to shreds.
| 251 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:07:54am |
re: #243 Mich-again
Their version of God is so far removed from the Christian God there is no resemblance whatsoever.
To me, it sometimes seems the opposite of Christianity.
| 252 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:09:02am |
Frankly, I find it rather sad that people are so suspicious of someone like Iceweasel (and possibly now of me) who strikes me as a very fair debater who always links to background information and who has put in an enormous amount of personal engagement. I think it's often more constructive within a community to critisize actions, rather than speculate on other peoples character and motivation. (though I think it's not always unreasonable to do so.) I do it too, but I tend to regret it immediately.
But even if one was convinced that we are trying to get people banned (or discredited), not for actual offenses, but for political differences (that seems to be the idea, right?), which I know I don’t and I would bet IW doesn’t either (she also said that she thought the icon should be allowed, but that it jarred with Mandy's behavior towards others, I agree), then I would still find it rather pathetic for people to refuse to own their own words and actions, instead blaming them on a nefarious other.
To me, that’s like saying „it’s Al Gore’s fault I thought AGW was a giant hoax.“ If you don’t respect the man, why let him determine your thoughts on something so fundamental? Likewise, if you say something bigoted and get banned, that’s not the fault of some person you decided to hate and offend deliberately. (if that’s the idea. If it’s something else I would appreciate it if someone explained it.)
| 253 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:09:10am |
re: #248 suchislife
I think it's weird to say that things get posted "behind people's backs".
Me too. If its posted in a thread people can always go back and respond to it later. You don't need to make sure a user is online before you address a question to them or comment on something they posted.
| 254 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:10:26am |
re: #246 Mich-again
They didn't even hold up planks of wood as shields or crawl across the ground. They marched upright shoulder to shoulder as if to say, go ahead and waste your ammunition on us. We have more soldiers than you can shoot. Stupid. And those were supposedly the great military minds of their time. I think they were all educated to the point of stupidity in how to fight a battle.
Thankfully, it's history now.
| 255 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:11:48am |
re: #251 Semper Fi
To me, it sometimes seems the opposite of Christianity.
Thats a good assessment. The Koran is like a Fractured Fairy Tales version of the Bible.
| 257 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:13:47am |
re: #254 Semper Fi
Thankfully, it's history now.
How'd you like to be the guy holding up the flag in the front row instead of a holding a weapon. Uh, dude, hold this up for a while. After you get shot someone else will grab it.
| 258 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:14:48am |
re: #252 suchislife
Frankly, I find it rather sad that people are so suspicious of someone like Iceweasel (and possibly now of me) who strikes me as a very fair debater who always links to background information and who has put in an enormous amount of personal engagement. I think it's often more constructive within a community to critisize actions, rather than speculate on other peoples character and motivation.
Are you pouring out your heart here? Don't assume there aren't a lot of lizards here that don't like you or respect your POV...You're fine.. unless you want to keep going..Pour it out...
*Are you crying?*
*are you crying?*
*There is no crying in blogging*
| 259 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:16:41am |
| 260 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:17:19am |
This is not a suggestive question, I just honestly would like to know, do people think it's ok to have an avatar that pisses on other persons' personal god, whatever faith these other person are, because that's freedom of speech, or do people think it's ok in this case, because of how they view Islam?
| 261 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:17:51am |
re: #257 Mich-again
How'd you like to be the guy holding up the flag in the front row instead of a holding a weapon. Uh, dude, hold this up for a while. After you get shot someone else will grab it.
I don't think I would like to be the one 'chosen' for the honor of carrying the flag -or- maybe he has just the worst shot and couldn't his the side of a barn./
| 262 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:19:03am |
re: #258 HoosierHoops
Dear diary, the people on the internet didn't like me. I was sad at first, but then I thought, such is life!
| 263 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:19:51am |
re: #260 suchislife
If faith in God is so weak that it is shaken by a cartoon or other form of ridicule then whats the point of having that faith. Nobody said it was easy.
| 264 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:20:29am |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'm a dullard. Pretty hard to bait me.
Quite so. One would have to be a master baiter to do that.
| 265 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:21:02am |
re: #260 suchislife
This is not a suggestive question, I just honestly would like to know, do people think it's ok to have an avatar that pisses on other persons' personal god, whatever faith these other person are, because that's freedom of speech, or do people think it's ok in this case, because of how they view Islam?
Feel free to post anythng. An avatar is just silly. Unless you like Stan.
// ( ya'll young guns won't get that)
| 266 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:21:06am |
re: #260 suchislife
This is not a suggestive question, I just honestly would like to know, do people think it's ok to have an avatar that pisses on other persons' personal god, whatever faith these other person are, because that's freedom of speech, or do people think it's ok in this case, because of how they view Islam?
Is this a question for Mandy? Cause she is not logged in..Why don't you wait till she is here....unless you just want to stir up a religious argument...
| 268 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:26:33am |
re: #260 suchislife
This is not a suggestive question, I just honestly would like to know, do people think it's ok to have an avatar that pisses on other persons' personal god, whatever faith these other person are, because that's freedom of speech, or do people think it's ok in this case, because of how they view Islam?
I piss on Islamofascism, Islamism and radical Islam...and challenge all who call themselves moderate Muslims to line up with me and piss away.
| 269 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:27:54am |
re: #260 suchislife
This is not a suggestive question, I just honestly would like to know, do people think it's ok to have an avatar that pisses on other persons' personal god, whatever faith these other person are, because that's freedom of speech, or do people think it's ok in this case, because of how they view Islam?
It's fine. And I don't care about "piss christ," and I don't care about Mao on White House Trees, it's freedom of speech in most case.
Unless the venue has some TOS rule that doesn't allow offensive avatars. I belong to a local community PHP based forum and they don't allow offensive avatars.
| 270 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:30:19am |
re: #244 Walter L. Newton
Mandy's avatar is fine. Or do you think that we should have avatar terms of service here?
re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar
If anyone has a problem with Mandy's avatar, they can bite me. I never noticed. But then again they probobly think I drink a bunch. And I don't.
Killgore's avatar is Christopher Hitchens' face on a Buddha body. At one time, it was Christopher Hitchens' face in Pope garb.
Were those avatars ever questioned and if the question is about avatars that are possibly offensive, then if they were not questioned, why not? Is it OK to desecrate Buddha (or Hitchens, depending on one's POV).
| 271 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:31:07am |
re: #269 Walter L. Newton
Me think posting about someone when they aren't here is not right.
| 272 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:31:23am |
re: #270 reine.de.tout
Killgore's avatar is Christopher Hitchens' face on a Buddha body. At one time, it was Christopher Hitchens' face in Pope garb.
Were those avatars ever questioned and if the question is about avatars that are possibly offensive, then if they were not questioned, why not? Is it OK to desecrate Buddha (or Hitchens, depending on one's POV).
Well of course not... any idea why. Extra points if you name names.
| 273 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:32:16am |
Good News/bad news:
Good News: I just had some of my aunt's Cheesy Bread, which is so good you'll start speaking in Italian!
Bad News: That was the last of it.... :(
| 274 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:32:50am |
re: #273 SteveC
Good News/bad news:
Good News: I just had some of my aunt's Cheesy Bread, which is so good you'll start speaking in Italian!
Bad News: That was the last of it... :(
So . . . you need to get her recipe, sounds like to me.
| 275 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:33:17am |
We have another Nontroversy( my spelling sucks)
| 276 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:33:30am |
re: #262 suchislife
Dear diary, the people on the internet didn't like me. I was sad at first, but then I thought, such is life!
The nice thing about the net is they don't have to like you..But they should respect you....You must have reasoned principles and courage..
Look at Charles..He get's hate mail every day but he stands up for what he believes in..A man of Character...A man i can respect
/Look if I took 10% of the hate charles has endured the last couple of Months I'm sure I'd be at the Promises rehab center in Malibu for a 30 day 'Relaxation vacation' He has not once melted down in response to the pure vile and hate..
Not one of us lizards could say that... Charles has stood tall and shown class.
Kudo's
| 277 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:34:31am |
re: #272 Walter L. Newton
Well of course not... any idea why. Extra points if you name names.
No names.
My point is that this is a silly discussion.
I know Buddhists, and they are as devoted to the principles of Buddhism as I am to Christianity. Why should Buddhism be left out, if we're talking about offensive images. But no one is taking offense at Killgore's Buddha.
| 278 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:35:02am |
re: #263 Mich-again
I'm not sure being offended because you feel someone pissed all over your faith (I'm atheist, I get it everyday!) is the same as being shaken in your convictions.
BTW, I'm very much in favor of free speech. I also like to see religion satirized. I think it's good for a religious (or any) community to be mocked every now and then. But, one should then be ok with other people mocking your faith right back at you. And that icon doesn't mock Islam. Spitting on something is not mocking. Pissing on it even less. It's also no critique.
| 279 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:35:22am |
re: #277 reine.de.tout
No names.
My point is that this is a silly discussion.
I know Buddhists, and they are as devoted to the principles of Buddhism as I am to Christianity. Why should Buddhism be left out, if we're talking about offensive images. But no one is taking offense at Killgore's Buddha.
I agree.
| 280 |
miclaine Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:36:33am |
avatars? as an old dead head should I be pissed that darth star has a "SYF" as his avatar?
//cras
| 281 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:36:59am |
re: #274 reine.de.tout
So . . . you need to get her recipe, sounds like to me.
I got it last year and misplaced it. And I shook the entire house looking for it!
You ever tried to pick up a house? Those things are heavy!
| 282 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:37:54am |
re: #278 suchislife
I'm not sure being offended because you feel someone pissed all over your faith (I'm atheist, I get it everyday!) is the same as being shaken in your convictions.
BTW, I'm very much in favor of free speech. I also like to see religion satirized. I think it's good for a religious (or any) community to be mocked every now and then. But, one should then be ok with other people mocking your faith right back at you. And that icon doesn't mock Islam. Spitting on something is not mocking. Pissing on it even less. It's also no critique.
You're in favor of freedom of speech, as long as the icon mocks Islam, as long as the icon fits some critique that passes your sensibilities. Otherwise... she's no free to use it.
Reread your comment, because that's exactly what you are saying, in too many words.
Typical.
| 283 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:39:54am |
re: #270 reine.de.tout
Killgore's avatar is Christopher Hitchens' face on a Buddha body. At one time, it was Christopher Hitchens' face in Pope garb.
Were those avatars ever questioned and if the question is about avatars that are possibly offensive, then if they were not questioned, why not? Is it OK to desecrate Buddha (or Hitchens, depending on one's POV).
Some day I'll need to tell you my Buddhist story...It's pretty funny
| 284 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:40:13am |
re: #266 HoosierHoops
No. It's to the people right here. Obviously I already know how Mandy feels about it, since she chose her avatar, and she regularily rebukes people for what she sees as slights against people of faith.
BTW, this is not the start of some avatar witch hunt. This is no slippery slope.
Also, I have to say I actually don't feel like going on about this. Obviously I'll answer if someone want's to know something, but really, I'm sort of not in the mood for the topic I myself chose.
| 285 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:42:11am |
re: #282 Walter L. Newton
Good point. I mixed up to things, both in my post and in my thoughts. Give me a minute to sort it out.
| 286 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:43:10am |
re: #278 suchislife
I'm not sure being offended because you feel someone pissed all over your faith (I'm atheist, I get it everyday!) is the same as being shaken in your convictions.
BTW, I'm very much in favor of free speech. I also like to see religion satirized. I think it's good for a religious (or any) community to be mocked every now and then. But, one should then be ok with other people mocking your faith right back at you. And that icon doesn't mock Islam. Spitting on something is not mocking. Pissing on it even less. It's also no critique.
You will forgive me if I do not accept your sanctimonious pronouncement of the limits of political satire. The cartoon in question is a satirical comment on the lack of respect for other religions which even mainstream Muslims suffer from. It is indeed "mocking" their intolerance right back at them. That's what it means to me.
| 287 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:44:00am |
Michigan Forces Business Owners Into Public Sector Unions
Ms. Berry owns her own business—yet the Michigan Department of Human Services claims she is a government employee and union member. The agency thus withholds union dues from the child-care subsidies it sends to her on behalf of her low-income clients. Those dues are funneled to a public-employee union that claims to represent her. The situation is crazy—and it's happening elsewhere in the country.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
move along
| 288 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:46:03am |
I've now seen 3 or 4 different people registered for a couple of months talking smack about Mandy, while she's not around. Fuck that.
| 289 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:48:10am |
Ok Lizards..I want to put together a top ten headlines you'd like to see for 2010 and post it here New Year's eve..
Need your input this week...Make the top ten list!
My #10: Tiger Woods starts dating Octomom
| 290 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:48:18am |
re: #288 cliffster
I've now seen 3 or 4 different people registered for a couple of months talking smack about Mandy, while she's not around. Fuck that.
Second the motion! All in favor say aye, any opposed say nay.
AYE!
| 291 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:48:29am |
re: #288 cliffster
I've now seen 3 or 4 different people registered for a couple of months talking smack about Mandy, while she's not around. Fuck that.
Mandy can back up what she says. Not many can. I will back her knowing what she has in her line-up.
| 293 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:49:54am |
re: #248 suchislife
I hope this doesn't lead to derailing the thread or anything. I would just like to respond to something posted earlier, in reaction to my critique:
I think it's weird to say that things get posted "behind people's backs". I mentioned this before when Mandy was there. Here, I was specifically asking Dark Falcon a question that pertained to what he posted a few minutes earlier, even though I then realized he was already gone.
I also find it weird to say that people "try to get others to say bad things". I mean, obviously there is such a thing as a suggestive question. "When did you stop beating your wife?"
But there is also such a thing as someone revealing their ignorance/bias on a certain subject, and then blaming it on the person who asked the question. See S. Palin, "the media made me tell bullshit by asking gotcha questions."
It's hard to always be impartial enough to tell the difference.
Now, a lot of people obviously think there's a lot of the former going on, but I have yet to see someone explain it linking to those attempts. cont
I'm back, such. I haven't too much time but I can answer your question. I think Mandy's avatar is directed at Islam, and as such I have less of an emotional problem with it than one directed at Christmas. Also, Mandy is "on the team" and Serrano is not, and that is a major difference for me. I frequently give passes to those I approve of that I would not give to those I dislike.
| 294 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:50:01am |
re: #284 suchislife
No. It's to the people right here. Obviously I already know how Mandy feels about it, since she chose her avatar, and she regularily rebukes people for what she sees as slights against people of faith.
BTW, this is not the start of some avatar witch hunt. This is no slippery slope.
Also, I have to say I actually don't feel like going on about this. Obviously I'll answer if someone want's to know something, but really, I'm sort of not in the mood for the topic I myself chose.
It's difficult to believe it's not an avatar 'witch hunt', when you've been on her case for awhile about that avatar. Here's a comment from Dec 21 that you made about her avatar. Give it a rest.
| 296 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:52:00am |
re: #283 HoosierHoops
Some day I'll need to tell you my Buddhist story...It's pretty funny
I'd love to hear it, HH!
| 297 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:53:57am |
re: #286 Spare O'Lake
. . . The cartoon in question is a satirical comment on the lack of respect for other religions which even mainstream Muslims suffer from. It is indeed "mocking" their intolerance right back at them. That's what it means to me.
Same here.
| 298 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:54:10am |
re: #293 Dark_Falcon
Wow. Now that just totally disarmed me. I do that too, I believe everyone does.
| 299 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:54:26am |
re: #294 reine.de.tout
It's difficult to believe it's not an avatar 'witch hunt', when you've been on her case for awhile about that avatar. Here's a comment from Dec 21 that you made about her avatar. Give it a rest.
Good find.
| 300 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:54:53am |
re: #291 Cannadian Club Akbar
Mandy can back up what she says. Not many can. I will back her knowing what she has in her line-up.
It's not so much about Mandy - she can bust your ass if you deserve it - but it sets a bad precedent. "Well, we talked about X when they weren't here and no one raised a stink. So today let's trash Y!"
In the words of that great philosopher, Barney Fife; "We got to nip it in the bud! Nip it, Nip it, nip it!"
| 301 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:55:27am |
re: #294 reine.de.tout
Yes, I mentioned it before. But when I say witchhunt, I meant, I will certainly not go looking for things to critize. This one jumped out at me.
| 302 |
Cathypop Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:56:46am |
re: #300 SteveC
It's not so much about Mandy - she can bust your ass if you deserve it - but it sets a bad precedent. "Well, we talked about X when they weren't here and no one raised a stink. So today let's trash Y!"
In the words of that great philosopher, Barney Fife; "We got to nip it in the bud! Nip it, Nip it, nip it!"
That is the second time this morning you have made me almost spit coffee on my screen.
Keep it up!
| 303 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:58:48am |
re: #301 suchislife
Yes, I mentioned it before. But when I say witchhunt, I meant, I will certainly not go looking for things to critize. This one jumped out at me.
No, the first few times, it was a comment, an opinion... maybe simply a question... fine... but now you have turned it into a witch hunt, from Dec. 21st and you're still on it.
| 304 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:58:50am |
re: #302 Cathypop
That is the second time this morning you have made me almost spit coffee on my screen.
Keep it up!
At first I thought he said "Barney Frank" and I threw up in my mouth a little.
| 305 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 8:59:06am |
avatars are a nontroversy 90% of the time...myob
| 306 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:00:01am |
re: #304 cliffster
At first I thought he said "Barney Frank" and I threw up in my mouth a little.
Sorry. (I'd chuck a mouthful, too!!)
| 307 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:00:17am |
I doubt you will hear me critique a Lizard without them here to defend themselves.
| 308 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:00:27am |
re: #284 suchislife
No. It's to the people right here. Obviously I already know how Mandy feels about it, since she chose her avatar, and she regularily rebukes people for what she sees as slights against people of faith.
BTW, this is not the start of some avatar witch hunt. This is no slippery slope.
Also, I have to say I actually don't feel like going on about this. Obviously I'll answer if someone want's to know something, but really, I'm sort of not in the mood for the topic I myself chose.
Then by all means piss off.
| 309 |
Cathypop Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:00:37am |
re: #304 cliffster
At first I thought he said "Barney Frank" and I threw up in my mouth a little.
YUCK!
| 310 |
Semper Fi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:00:59am |
Its been nice. Now, time for a walk. Sunny day. No wind. Cool. Day after the Big day.
I survived xmas 2009.
Later
Thanks
| 311 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:01:29am |
I have a bit of a problem now. This has been bothering me for a while, and I wanted to bring it up, and I'm glad I did. But, I sort of didn't consider that the consequense would be a whole thread of me critizing Mandy, which she will read later on, and which will certainly not make her say, "that suchislife, I bet she meant well. I really want to explain myself now, and change her mind or change something I've done for years." I effectively made a direct conversation all but impossible.
So, I don't think there is something sinister in discussing some commenter while they're gone (especially not one much better established than me), but I've now learned that it's a spectacularily bad idea if one actually wants to engage that person.
| 312 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:02:14am |
serial Pope toppler
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
look out for women in red sweatshirts
| 313 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:03:14am |
re: #311 suchislife
I have a bit of a problem now. This has been bothering me for a while, and I wanted to bring it up, and I'm glad I did. But, I sort of didn't consider that the consequense would be a whole thread of me critizing Mandy, which she will read later on, and which will certainly not make her say, "that suchislife, I bet she meant well. I really want to explain myself now, and change her mind or change something I've done for years." I effectively made a direct conversation all but impossible.
So, I don't think there is something sinister in discussing some commenter while they're gone (especially not one much better established than me), but I've now learned that it's a spectacularily bad idea if one actually wants to engage that person.
Live and learn. Nothing you can do about this mistake. Learn from it and do better next time.
| 315 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:03:52am |
re: #284 suchislife
No. It's to the people right here. Obviously I already know how Mandy feels about it, since she chose her avatar, and she regularily rebukes people for what she sees as slights against people of faith.
BTW, this is not the start of some avatar witch hunt. This is no slippery slope.
Also, I have to say I actually don't feel like going on about this. Obviously I'll answer if someone want's to know something, but really, I'm sort of not in the mood for the topic I myself chose.
Then I guess you are NOT going to reframe your comment above as you promised me you were going to do?
| 316 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:03:53am |
re: #301 suchislife
Yes, I mentioned it before. But when I say witchhunt, I meant, I will certainly not go looking for things to critize. This one jumped out at me.
Look . . . Spare O'Lake said it here - many of us see Mandy's avatar as mocking the intolerance of Islam - I would not personally have chosen that avatar, but I'm not Mandy. You yourself stated that you like to see religions satirized.
My question - why does it seem that Islam the only religion you want to give a pass to?
| 317 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:05:39am |
re: #296 reine.de.tout
I'd love to hear it, HH!
Well back in College a couple of friends invited me to a Buddhist Temple in Napa to check it out one day...So stary eyed boys we visited this Temple that was chock full of Rich Napa Valley people chanting and talking...
I was talked to by these really rich white guys about chanting about getting richer, finer cars, bigger houses.. I was expected something a little bit different with at least real Indians running the Temple...
So I got all self righteousness during the last chant and said stuff like you are chanting for a new car..really? Shhhh! No really I'm in a Buddhist temple and you are chanting about making more money..Are you sure about that?
The only time in my life I got booted by the bouncers at a church or Temple in my life...If only they kept the security video feed while I'm getting escorted out yelling you guys really suck..You know it! You suck...
Hell..I was in College..What did I know? But I called BS on a bunch of Napa Snobs that found a religion that thought would match their life style
| 318 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:08:12am |
re: #317 HoosierHoops
Well back in College a couple of friends invited me to a Buddhist Temple in Napa to check it out one day...So stary eyed boys we visited this Temple that was chock full of Rich Napa Valley people chanting and talking...
I was talked to by these really rich white guys about chanting about getting richer, finer cars, bigger houses.. I was expected something a little bit different with at least real Indians running the Temple...
So I got all self righteousness during the last chant and said stuff like you are chanting for a new car..really? Shhh! No really I'm in a Buddhist temple and you are chanting about making more money..Are you sure about that?
The only time in my life I got booted by the bouncers at a church or Temple in my life...If only they kept the security video feed while I'm getting escorted out yelling you guys really suck..You know it! You suck...
Hell..I was in College..What did I know? But I called BS on a bunch of Napa Snobs that found a religion that thought would match their life style
Funny!
The Buddhists I know are a bit different - not rich by any means -
| 319 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:09:07am |
But I called BS on a bunch of Napa Snobs that found a religion that thought would match their life style
I love you,man.
| 320 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:09:17am |
re: #303 Walter L. Newton
I get why it would seem like that. But really I brought it up once, and then again when Dark Falcon's reaction to that Cross in a glass of urin art made me think of it again. I do think the association is not all that far fetched. After that, I expanded on my point in one thread. I think that's pretty normal.
But like I just wrote, I do think I may have shot myself in the foot here.
I would also like to point out that I think I didn't speak about her character or motivations. I mentioned certain acts, and explained why I wasn't ok with them. I'll reread it right now to see if I went further then that.
| 321 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:10:51am |
re: #315 Walter L. Newton
Yes, I will. It's hard to keep track of several questions at once. Patience!
| 322 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:12:04am |
re: #320 suchislife
I get why it would seem like that. But really I brought it up once, and then again when Dark Falcon's reaction to that Cross in a glass of urin art made me think of it again. I do think the association is not all that far fetched. After that, I expanded on my point in one thread. I think that's pretty normal.
But like I just wrote, I do think I may have shot myself in the foot here.
I would also like to point out that I think I didn't speak about her character or motivations. I mentioned certain acts, and explained why I wasn't ok with them. I'll reread it right now to see if I went further then that.
I read your posts, and you do seem to avoid talking about character or motivation, and stick to questions or statements about acts or beliefs, and that is appreciated. But Mandy's avatar thing - it's a topic to let go, imo.
| 323 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:12:22am |
re: #321 suchislife
Yes, I will. It's hard to keep track of several questions at once. Patience!
How many 3 cent stamp are in a dozen?
| 324 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:13:19am |
re: #320 suchislife
I get why it would seem like that. But really I brought it up once, and then again when Dark Falcon's reaction to that Cross in a glass of urin art made me think of it again. I do think the association is not all that far fetched. After that, I expanded on my point in one thread. I think that's pretty normal.
But like I just wrote, I do think I may have shot myself in the foot here.
I would also like to point out that I think I didn't speak about her character or motivations. I mentioned certain acts, and explained why I wasn't ok with them. I'll reread it right now to see if I went further then that.
Just leave it for now. Don't get obsessive about what went on. I do that sometimes and it doesn't help at all. Wait till Mandy checks in and then speak to her.
| 325 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:13:36am |
re: #323 Cannadian Club Akbar
How many 3 cent stamp are in a dozen?
Four?
LOL.
Math and trick questions not necessarily my strong point, so it took me a minute to figure out - 12.
| 326 |
jaunte Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:14:11am |
Andres Serrano is in the (profitable) business of emotional manipulation. That's an order of magnitude different from expressing an opinion online about the negative aspects of a set of beliefs.
| 327 |
lawhawk Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:14:25am |
re: #323 Cannadian Club Akbar
12
If a train is going 60 miles in one direction and another train is going 50 miles in another, where will they meet in Detroit? /
42, which is the answer to all questions?
| 328 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:15:36am |
re: #316 reine.de.tout
Look . . . Spare O'Lake said it here - many of us see Mandy's avatar as mocking the intolerance of Islam - I would not personally have chosen that avatar, but I'm not Mandy. You yourself stated that you like to see religions satirized.
My question - why does it seem that Islam the only religion you want to give a pass to?
Ok, I don't want to give Islam a pass. My first impulse was just to state that I would react similarily to a personal icon of calvin pissing on a cross with jesus affixed to it. But would I? I need a couple of minutes to collect my thoughts on this, and to answer Walter.
| 329 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:15:53am |
re: #320 suchislife
I get why it would seem like that. But really I brought it up once, and then again when Dark Falcon's reaction to that Cross in a glass of urin art made me think of it again. I do think the association is not all that far fetched. After that, I expanded on my point in one thread. I think that's pretty normal.
But like I just wrote, I do think I may have shot myself in the foot here.
I would also like to point out that I think I didn't speak about her character or motivations. I mentioned certain acts, and explained why I wasn't ok with them. I'll reread it right now to see if I went further then that.
Were you egged on at all by the noted tag team?
| 330 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:15:59am |
exactly as I predicted...here we go
So Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has an idea: He wants President Obama to give him $8 billion — or else, he says, he'll kill or slash most of the state's welfare programs, cut pay for 200,000 state workers and end two tax breaks for big corporations.
direct cash handout, complete with threats of blackmail
[Link: www.investors.com...]
| 331 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:16:09am |
re: #327 lawhawk
12
If a train is going 60 miles in one direction and another train is going 50 miles in another, where will they meet in Detroit? /
42, which is the answer to all questions?
How many birthdays does the average man have?
| 332 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:17:38am |
re: #323 Cannadian Club Akbar
How many 3 cent stamp are in a dozen?
Green!
Roger Staubach was sacked hard once, got up and staggered toward the wrong bench. The Cowboys medical staff ran after him and drug him back to their bench. They sat him down and the head trainer held up three fingers.
How many fingers do I have up, Roger?
Staubach confidently answered "Green!"
Oh, boy. I think you need to sit for a little while, Roger.
| 333 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:18:12am |
re: #329 Spare O'Lake
I rarely downding, but that made me angry.
| 334 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:18:25am |
re: #327 lawhawk
12
If a train is going 60 miles in one direction and another train is going 50 miles in another, where will they meet in Detroit? /
42, which is the answer to all questions?
If two trains collide - aren't you glad you took the bus?
| 335 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:20:11am |
I hate having to leave this discussion, but I need the extra time at work. BBT
| 336 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:20:49am |
Israel's military said the three, affiliated with a violent offshoot of Abbas' Fatah movement, were targeted for killing an Israeli settler in a roadside ambush earlier in the week and had turned down a chance to surrender.
In the Gaza Strip, three young men approaching Israel's southern border were killed by shots from an Israeli helicopter gunship. Saturday's deaths made it one of the deadliest days in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since Israel waged war on Gaza's Islamic militant Hamas rulers a year ago.
The violent Nablus raids, after months of relative quiet, embarrassed Western-backed Abbas, whose security forces have been coordinating some of their moves with their Israeli counterparts and share a common foe, Hamas.
At the funeral for the slain men, Abbas' security policy was denounced by thousands of mourners, who chanted: "Why the coordination while we are under the bullets of the army?"
SNIP
| 337 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:20:50am |
re: #318 reine.de.tout
Funny!
The Buddhists I know are a bit different - not rich by any means -
Everything in Napa Valley is different...I love it with my whole heart but growing up there I have a 1000 stories of Napa Snobs...Of course the Buddhist Temple is full a rich wine snobs chanting for millions...They lost their soul and are looking for direction in life...
The Gossip in Napa is delicious.. But I don't Gossip but the stories are juicy
| 338 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:21:11am |
re: #332 SteveC
Green!
Roger Staubach was sacked hard once, got up and staggered toward the wrong bench. The Cowboys medical staff ran after him and drug him back to their bench. They sat him down and the head trainer held up three fingers.
How many fingers do I have up, Roger?
Staubach confidently answered "Green!"
Oh, boy. I think you need to sit for a little while, Roger.
reading about football concussions the other day...Moose Johnston said he could not remember an entire half a game, but he looked at the films and he'd made every play he was responsible for and played well...a very strange injury and I'm glad the NFL is on this thing with their new rules about sitting out
| 339 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:21:33am |
re: #332 SteveC
Green!
Roger Staubach was sacked hard once, got up and staggered toward the wrong bench. The Cowboys medical staff ran after him and drug him back to their bench. They sat him down and the head trainer held up three fingers.
How many fingers do I have up, Roger?
Staubach confidently answered "Green!"
Oh, boy. I think you need to sit for a little while, Roger.
I saw Brett Favre get earholed by Regan Upshaw. Brett didn't remember the week, nor the hit.
| 340 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:23:19am |
re: #333 suchislife
I rarely downding, but that made me angry.
one thing is for sure, you are getting alot of attention here over virtually nothing..proof you can make pizza pie out of horse shit...
| 341 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:23:32am |
re: #339 Cannadian Club Akbar
I saw Brett Favre get earholed by Regan Upshaw. Brett didn't remember the week, nor the hit.
Speaking of Farve, he was lucky to get out of Charlotte alive last week. Peppers was playing like a maniac.
| 342 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:23:39am |
re: #330 albusteve
exactly as I predicted...here we go
So Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has an idea: He wants President Obama to give him $8 billion — or else, he says, he'll kill or slash most of the state's welfare programs, cut pay for 200,000 state workers and end two tax breaks for big corporations.direct cash handout, complete with threats of blackmail
[Link: www.investors.com...]
Arnold has had a lot of good outlines on how to shake down the federal government. Hell, there was a big seminar about it in the Senate over the last month.
| 344 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:25:01am |
re: #338 albusteve
reading about football concussions the other day...Moose Johnston said he could not remember an entire half a game, but he looked at the films and he'd made every play he was responsible for and played well...a very strange injury and I'm glad the NFL is on this thing with their new rules about sitting out
Repeated blows to the head didn't do Muhammad Ali any good, that's for certain.
| 345 |
abolitionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:25:16am |
re: #278 suchislife
I'm not sure being offended because you feel someone pissed all over your faith (I'm atheist, I get it everyday!) is the same as being shaken in your convictions.
BTW, I'm very much in favor of free speech. I also like to see religion satirized. I think it's good for a religious (or any) community to be mocked every now and then. But, one should then be ok with other people mocking your faith right back at you. And that icon doesn't mock Islam. Spitting on something is not mocking. Pissing on it even less. It's also no critique.
Islam is a very intolerant supremacist ideology that condones (even mandates) killing at the drop of an insult, or a revision of religious faith.
My introduction to islam was in the form of a telephoned death threat against myself (and my entire family) if I dared to continue dating (or talking to, or otherwise communicating with) a high school classmate (who happened to be christian), without first converting (to islam). That was 45 years ago, 1964.
I don't hate muslims. If I did, I'd condemn them to islam. No one has a right not to be offended. Mocking the intolerance of islam is appropriate, imho.
| 346 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:26:04am |
re: #337 HoosierHoops
Everything in Napa Valley is different...I love it with my whole heart but growing up there I have a 1000 stories of Napa Snobs...Of course the Buddhist Temple is full a rich wine snobs chanting for millions...They lost their soul and are looking for direction in life...
The Gossip in Napa is delicious.. But I don't Gossip but the stories are juicy
I have a sad Napa story myself.
My nephew married a girl from Napa. They moved here in order to be able to afford a house, etc. She hated it here. Really did not like the Louisiana heathen rednecks, apparently, tho she was welcomed into the family with open arms.
At any rate - they had a baby - then they split up, without telling anyone. She moved back to Napa and was back home for 3 weeks before my brother and his wife were even aware that the couple had split up. Now, my nephew SHOULD keep his family informed. However, the wife took off and went back to California with the baby without letting anyone know or have an opportunity for a last visit. That was wrong, IMO; she cannot place all the fault on my nephew for the lack of communication.
My brother & his wife sent the baby a birthday present. It was returned to them, unopened. They have received no updates, no news, no photos, of the baby. This is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
| 347 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:26:34am |
re: #342 Walter L. Newton
Arnold has had a lot of good outlines on how to shake down the federal government. Hell, there was a big seminar about it in the Senate over the last month.
haha!...one way to look at it
| 348 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:27:26am |
re: #346 reine.de.tout
That's a horrible story about a very bad person.
| 349 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:27:39am |
| 350 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:28:42am |
Organisers of the Gaza Freedom March had earlier said they would try to defy the ban after Egypt turned down their request to pass through Rafah, the Gaza Strip's only crossing that bypasses Israel.
SNIP
| 351 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:29:19am |
re: #348 cliffster
That's a horrible story about a very bad person.
I think so too.
The other nephew's wife is in touch with the Napa girl through FB, and she downloads and prints photos of the baby as new ones appear, and gives them to my brother and his wife - so they keep up, sort of.
| 352 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:29:38am |
re: #340 albusteve
one thing is for sure, you are getting alot of attention here over virtually nothing..proof you can make pizza pie out of horse shit...
I'll have mine with double bullcrap, please.
| 353 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:30:34am |
Organisers of the Gaza Freedom March had earlier said they would try to defy the ban after Egypt turned down their request to pass through Rafah, the Gaza Strip's only crossing that bypasses Israel.
A real protester wouldn't ask for permission.
| 354 |
Digital Display Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:31:22am |
re: #346 reine.de.tout
Sad story....We had a saying..Never marry a girl from Napa...All though high school and college we knew not to marry a girl from Napa...Everybody knows that...
| 355 |
CapeCoddah Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:32:08am |
re: #348 cliffster
That's a horrible story about a very bad person.
Good Morning everyone!!
Cliffster, those people are not rare. Lots of horrid folk out there.
| 356 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:32:16am |
re: #289 HoosierHoops
Ok Lizards..I want to put together a top ten headlines you'd like to see for 2010 and post it here New Year's eve..
Need your input this week...Make the top ten list!
My #10: Tiger Woods starts dating Octomom
My 10 headlines (inconsistent musings in no particular order).
"Hey, we got over it." Official statement from Arab League reversing Khartoum Resolution of 1967. YES to peace with Israel, YES to recognition of Israel, YES to negotiations with Israel.
"We're the scum of the universe." - Dark matter and energy conclusively identified as making up 96% of the mass of the universe.
"Higgs boson found at LHC. Mass found to vary with the day of the week."
"Mahmoud Ahmadinejad disappears in bizarre gardening accident. Iran scraps nuclear program."
"Fossilized rabbit found in pre-Cambrian stratum."
"Richard Dawkins named as next Archbishop of Canterbury."
"Valid proof of God's existence found written on discarded newspaper in London Underground."
"Extra-terrestrials address UN - non-aligned nations walk out."
"Ancient Aristotelian comedy discovered. Contains first ever custard pie throwing scene."
"Charles Johnson receives honorary knighthood for services to blogging."
| 357 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:33:02am |
A new interior minister has replaced the man Israel assassinated during its three-week offensive, and new police units have been recruited to make up for those killed by Israeli bombs in the opening air strikes of the war.
"When I took this post I knew my chances of being killed would increase, but that's the risk we take," Interior Minister Fathi Hammad told Reuters in an interview at his house.
SNIP
NOTE WAY DOWN IN THE BODY OF THE STORY:
Incessant rocket fire by Gaza militant groups under the aegis of Hamas was Israel's stated reason for its December27 - January 18 offensive, codenamed Cast Lead.
SNIP
Fuck you, Reuters, you Hamas lackeys.
| 358 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:33:24am |
re: #263 Mich-again
If faith in God is so weak that it is shaken by a cartoon or other form of ridicule then whats the point of having that faith. Nobody said it was easy.
That doesn't make ridicule tasteful or appropriate. Testing one another's faith shouldn't be something we do for fun.
| 359 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:34:31am |
re: #351 reine.de.tout
I think so too.
The other nephew's wife is in touch with the Napa girl through FB, and she downloads and prints photos of the baby as new ones appear, and gives them to my brother and his wife - so they keep up, sort of.
Keeping someone from being in touch with their grandchildren (or their children) without a pretty serious offense is some twisted shit.
| 360 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:35:16am |
Five Decades Of Cooling Ahead
In a peer-reviewed paper published in the prestigious online journal Physics Reports, Lu, who holds a Ph.D. in physics from the University of Newcastle, reports that CFCs, the compounds once widely used as refrigerants, and cosmic rays, which are energy particles originating in outer space, are mostly to blame for climate change, rather than carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions.
anybody know anything about this guy, or journal?
[Link: www.investors.com...]
| 361 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:36:34am |
I'm off to Wal-Mart!
Sure hope I don't end up on the "People of Wal-Mart" site LOL!
bbl
| 363 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:37:08am |
re: #358 SanFranciscoZionist
That doesn't make ridicule tasteful or appropriate. Testing one another's faith shouldn't be something we do for fun.
Calling out dhimmitude and Islamofascism in all its manifestations is not done here for fun...it's deadly serious.
| 364 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:37:39am |
Two weeks after Thai authorities impounded the aircraft and arrested its five-man crew, the key questions of who organized the shipment and where it was headed remain unanswered.
But a trail of companies and fake addresses from New Zealand to Barcelona has illustrated how the traffickers bounced around the globe to lightly regulated countries to disguise their movements. Over the past few months, they created a complex web of holding companies that facilitated the flight in an apparent effort to evade U.N. sanctions on North Korea.
SNIP
The plane's chief pilot insisted in an interview published Friday that the aircraft's final destination was Kiev, Ukraine, though arms trafficking experts published a report last week saying it was bound for Iran. Thai authorities have said there is no evidence to support that assertion.
"We were to fly to Ukraine," the pilot, Ilyas Isakov of Kazakhstan, told Russian news agencies ITAR-Tass and RIA Novosti in response to written questions. "I don't know what the cargo owners intended to do next, but we were hired to fly it to Kiev's Borispil airport."
He said the crew was hired by a Ukrainian air freighter called Aviatek to pick up 35.8 tons of cargo in Pyongyang, North Korea — which included 25 tons of oil-drilling equipment and other cargo in sealed wooden boxes. He said the flight path included refueling stops in Bangkok and Sri Lanka.
SNIP
| 365 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:39:27am |
re: #345 abolitionist
Islam is a very intolerant supremacist ideology that condones (even mandates) killing at the drop of an insult, or a revision of religious faith.
My introduction to islam was in the form of a telephoned death threat against myself (and my entire family) if I dared to continue dating (or talking to, or otherwise communicating with) a high school classmate (who happened to be christian), without first converting (to islam). That was 45 years ago, 1964.
I don't hate muslims. If I did, I'd condemn them to islam. No one has a right not to be offended. Mocking the intolerance of islam is appropriate, imho.
Broad brush, much?
| 366 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:39:48am |
The Rah-e-Sabz site said forces, including the elite Revolutionary Guard and the paramilitary Basijis, used tear gas and pepper spray in an attempt to disperse demonstrators, and broke the windows of cars that were honking horns in protest.
SNIP
| 367 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:42:57am |
re: #353 SteveC
A real protester wouldn't ask for permission.
The Egyptian border guard shoots first and doesn't ask questions.
Although that might be more true when shooting at Sudanese refugees running for the border than when faced with a scurrying pack of first-world lefties in pink sweatshirts and khaffiyehs.
"Mahmoud! STOP! Think of the press, man! Think of the LONDON GUARDIAN!"
| 368 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:44:05am |
Good morning, lizards.
Had a great Christmas yesterday, how was yours?
| 369 |
KronoGhazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:44:44am |
[Link: www.honoluluadvertiser.com...]
I can't help but feel good that Obama is having chow with troops. Upding Obama.
| 371 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:45:55am |
re: #356 John Neverbend
"Mahmoud Ahmadinejad disappears in bizarre gardening accident. Iran scraps nuclear program."
Unlike the ninjas from The Tick, Yossi really does look like a hedge!
| 372 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:46:55am |
| 373 |
CapeCoddah Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:48:38am |
re: #365 SanFranciscoZionist
Broad brush, much?
Broad Brush?? How many stories do we hear of fathers MURDERING their daughters because they speak to the wrong person or wear the wrong article of clothing. Broad brush my ass.
What the hell kind of "Religion" is that?
If that is NOT what Islam is about, why do we not see Mullahs on TV worldwide constantly telling their flock that this behavior is wrong. What priest would council his parishioner to kill?
Islam IS about enforcing the edicts of the religion by force, violence and murder. Once in a great while you hear someone squeak about that not being what Islam is all about. Bullshit. It is what it is. Violence and death as a means to their end. Are there lots of peaceful muslims..Yes. They should step up and do something if the religion has been perverted by extremists. Thousands of years of extremism. But, they cannot step up, they would be murdered. Broad brush my ass.
| 374 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:49:42am |
re: #368 Irish Rose
Good morning, lizards.
Had a great Christmas yesterday, how was yours?
Me and my family had a fantastic Christmas. We are unendingly blessed with loving family and friends, a great home, and the means to give our kids great loot from Santa.
| 375 |
Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:50:56am |
re: #368 Irish Rose
Hi
Our was great. New family forming as a niece is engaged. Two big families get to know each other.
| 376 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:51:38am |
re: #363 Spare O'Lake
Calling out dhimmitude and Islamofascism in all its manifestations is not done here for fun...it's deadly serious.
As far as I'm concerned, not everything that's said about Islam falls into that category.
| 377 |
Firstinla Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:51:57am |
Late to thread so apologies if this was posted earlier: Charles' opening quote is of Gustave Flaubert (1821-1880). Perhaps the artist is his reincarnation?
| 378 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:52:51am |
| 379 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:53:07am |
re: #369 BigPapa
Over at Hot Air they're outraged that he didn't go to church yesterday.
| 380 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:53:57am |
At Camp Phoenix, outside Kabul, dinner included prime rib, shrimp cocktail, and a Christmas cake in the shape of a tree that was about the size of a tree.
After the sun went down, and the mammoth spread of food was removed, the Morale, Welfare, and Recreation club at Camp Phoenix cleared the dance floor and blasted hip-hop music until midnight.
NATO units from Romania, who maintain a detachment at Phoenix, invited Georgia National Guardsmen to an evening outdoor barbecue, but only a few were up to the challenge of yet another meal.
"You've got to do something to break up the monotony," said Capt. Delando Langley of Woodbridge, Va. "If you get one down day, it's Christmas."
With the American military's "General Order No. 1" still in effect, all celebrants were teetotalers. U.S. troops deployed to Afghanistan are prohibited from consuming alcohol.
Langley spent Christmas evening sipping on an iced tea - regular, not Long Island - with friends.
"Sometimes you're only limited by your own creativity," said Capt. Chuck Newton of Lithonia, Ga.
A group calling itself "Operation Christmas" delivered more than 2,800 bags of gifts to the camp.
SNIP
| 381 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:54:14am |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
Over at Hot Air they're outraged that he didn't go to church yesterday.
For a second, I though you were talking about Charles. The scary part is that I'm not so sure that wouldn't be news to them too.
| 382 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:54:56am |
re: #381 SanFranciscoZionist
For a second, I though you were talking about Charles. The scary part is that I'm not so sure that wouldn't be news to them too.
Oddly enough, the same thought just crossed my mind.
| 383 |
Four More Tears Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:55:37am |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
Over at Hot Air they're outraged that he didn't go to church yesterday.
I'm convinced they'd find outrage if the man didn't put the toilet seat down.
| 384 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:55:40am |
re: #282 Walter L. Newton
Wow, this is hard, because it's a complicated issue. Still trying to clarify it. Here's something that's already pretty clear to me: it occurs to me that this is not a freedom of speech issue at all. I just threw that in reflexively.
I'm still trying to clearly state my case about the mocking.
| 386 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:57:17am |
re: #383 JasonA
I'm convinced they'd find outrage if the man didn't put the toilet seat down.
No, that's his right as a member of the male population.
| 387 |
KronoGhazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:57:34am |
CALLER: Yeah doctor. Our small tea bag group here in Waycross, we got our vigil together and took Dr. Coburn’s instructions and prayed real hard that Sen. Byrd would either die or couldn’t show up at the vote the other night.
How hard did you pray because I see one of our members was missing this morning. Did it backfire on us? One of our members died? How hard did you pray senator? Did you pray hard enough
HOST: Senator Barasso, he was referring to Senator Inhofe, who was not part of the round of voting this morning.
BARASSO: The votes today, they needed 60 votes in favor of the bill. Senator Inhofe is opposed to the bill, and whether he was there or not didn’t make any difference. There was no way that Jim Inhofe was going to vote for the bill, the senator from Oklahoma. So that’s why he wasn’t there this morning.
HOST: Do you know where he was, senator, why he wasn’t able to make the vote this morning?
BARASSO: No, I don’t know.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
The crazy keeps on coming.
| 388 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:58:08am |
The commotion began as Northwest Airlines Flight 253, carrying 278 passengers and 11 crew members from Amsterdam, prepared to land in Detroit just before noon Friday. Travelers said they smelled smoke, saw a glow, and heard what sounded like firecrackers. At least one person climbed over others and jumped on the man, who officials say was trying to ignite an explosive device.
SNIP
In Nigeria, a prominent banker said Saturday that he was meeting with security officials there because he feared his son was the suspect. Alhaji Umaru Mutallab told The Associated Press said his son was a one-time university student in London who had left Britain to travel abroad. He said his son hadn't lived in London "for some time" but he wasn't sure exactly where he went to.
"I believe he might have been to Yemen, but we are investigating to determine that," the elder Mutallab said. He said he would provide more details later Saturday as he learned more from authorities.
SNIP
So much for the liberal excuse of poverty and ignorance behind terrorism...again.
| 389 |
Four More Tears Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:58:51am |
re: #386 John Neverbend
No, that's his right as a member of the male population.
Try telling Michelle that. Tell me how it goes. :P
| 390 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:59:00am |
hate speech!....uh oh
The group's message reads: "At the time of the winter solstice
, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."
athiests are haters...hate hate hate hate
[Link: www.upi.com...]
| 391 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:59:30am |
re: #368 Irish Rose
Good morning, lizards.
Had a great Christmas yesterday, how was yours?
I was disappointed that you didn't make it to the family Christmas party, IR. I guess my invitation got lost in the mail. :(
/I knew I should have put a little extra postage on it!
| 392 |
stayfrosty Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:59:42am |
re: #388 MandyManners
You've got a lot of thread to read. Start with searching the thread for "Mandy".
| 393 |
NorthWhale Sat, Dec 26, 2009 9:59:48am |
re: #360 albusteve
The journal is indeed quite respectable with an impact factor around 16, so it should be taken serious. But this guy Qing Bin-Lu have only published three peer reviewed papers before this one it looks like, and since it is a new theory there are very limited data to support it [Link: www.sciencedirect.com...]
I would be very careful before buying into it.
| 394 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:00:11am |
re: #240 Taqyia2Me
Not to put word's into Mandy's mouth but is not her avatar an opinion of what those extremist Muslims are doing to their own religion (allah and islam)???
No, I think she's just pissing on Islam in general. But hey, if it makes her happy, who am I to judge?
re: #243 Mich-again
Their version of God is so far removed from the Christian God there is no resemblance whatsoever.
Their version of God is no better or worse than yours.
| 395 |
abolitionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:00:20am |
re: #365 SanFranciscoZionist
Broad brush, much?
It was not that phone call that affected me nearly so much as what I read in the koran soon after. I've largely ignored religious issues for most of my life, until 911. Even then, I found myself contemplating the supposed inclusiveness of islam, as a possible sign of something positive in it. But I've researched it much more since, and realize that my optimism was unwarranted.
| 396 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:01:19am |
re: #387 BigPapa
CALLER: Yeah doctor. Our small tea bag group here in Waycross, we got our vigil together and took Dr. Coburn’s instructions and prayed real hard that Sen. Byrd would either die or couldn’t show up at the vote the other night.
How hard did you pray because I see one of our members was missing this morning. Did it backfire on us? One of our members died? How hard did you pray senator? Did you pray hard enough
HOST: Senator Barasso, he was referring to Senator Inhofe, who was not part of the round of voting this morning.
BARASSO: The votes today, they needed 60 votes in favor of the bill. Senator Inhofe is opposed to the bill, and whether he was there or not didn’t make any difference. There was no way that Jim Inhofe was going to vote for the bill, the senator from Oklahoma. So that’s why he wasn’t there this morning.
HOST: Do you know where he was, senator, why he wasn’t able to make the vote this morning?
BARASSO: No, I don’t know.
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]The crazy keeps on coming.
Charles thinks that may have been a prank call, although I'm not sure how he can tell.
I don't know. I once sat next to a woman at a bus stop, days after a little girl's body had been found nearby. She told me, in all seriousness, that she attributed the fact that the killer had been apprehended to her church group's prayer on the matter.
I still wonder what she would have done if I'd accused her of not having enough faith to save the child in the first place.
| 397 |
jaunte Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:01:21am |
re: #388 MandyManners
The suspect was identified as Abdul Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, who according to federal documents is an engineering student at University College of London.He was flying from Nigeria to the United States for a religious seminar, according to his entry visa, which was issued June 16, 2008 and was good until June 12, 2010.
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
/A general seminar about religion.
| 398 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:01:25am |
I got the best Christmas gift yesterday... my sweetie built me a self-contained hydroponics unit for my kitchen herbs so that I can bring my passion for gardening indoors during the cold winter months.
| 399 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:02:03am |
re: #380 MandyManners
thanks for posting that...there are great stories, down through all the wars, about our GIs doing Christmas far from home, I always like that sort of stuff...oddball decorations, goofy presents and the like
| 400 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:02:25am |
| 401 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:02:28am |
re: #388 MandyManners
SNIPSo much for the liberal excuse of poverty and ignorance behind terrorism...again.
The truly poor don't have money to be terrorists abroad. That's a middle-class indulgence.
| 402 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:04:28am |
re: #391 SteveC
I was disappointed that you didn't make it to the family Christmas party, IR. I guess my invitation got lost in the mail. :(
/I knew I should have put a little extra postage on it!
Thanks very much for thinking about me!
| 403 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:04:48am |
re: #398 Irish Rose
I got the best Christmas gift yesterday... my sweetie built me a self-contained hydroponics unit for my kitchen herbs so that I can bring my passion for gardening indoors during the cold winter months.
I can think of one crop to grow!
| 404 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:05:07am |
re: #393 NorthWhale
The journal is indeed quite respectable with an impact factor around 16, so it should be taken serious. But this guy Qing Bin-Lu have only published three peer reviewed papers before this one it looks like, and since it is a new theory there are very limited data to support it [Link: www.sciencedirect.com...]
I would be very careful before buying into it.
thanks for that...but I don't buy into much, just tossing it out there
| 405 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:05:09am |
re: #399 albusteve
thanks for posting that...there are great stories, down through all the wars, about our GIs doing Christmas far from home, I always like that sort of stuff...oddball decorations, goofy presents and the like
You're welcome.
| 406 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:05:39am |
re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist
The truly poor don't have money to be terrorists abroad. That's a middle-class indulgence.
No, that's a Muslim indulgence nowadays.
| 407 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:06:13am |
re: #400 MandyManners
Methodist jihadis.
Do not do unto others that which is hateful to thee. The rest is commentary. Now go and study kill some infidels.
There you go, Hillel.
| 408 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:06:46am |
| 409 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:06:53am |
re: #402 Irish Rose
Thanks very much for thinking about me!
I'm just funnin' with ya, of course, but if you were to show up at my home for any reason, you'd be warmly welcomed!
| 410 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:07:25am |
re: #407 John Neverbend
Do notdo unto others that which is hateful to thee. The rest is commentary. Now go andstudykill some infidels.There you go, Hillel.
HA!
| 411 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:07:42am |
| 412 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:07:54am |
re: #406 MandyManners
No, that's a Muslim indulgence nowadays.
Watching the CNN coverage of the attempted attack yesterday and they haven't said the word "muslim" once.
| 413 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:08:41am |
re: #395 abolitionist
It was not that phone call that affected me nearly so much as what I read in the koran soon after. I've largely ignored religious issues for most of my life, until 911. Even then, I found myself contemplating the supposed inclusiveness of islam, as a possible sign of something positive in it. But I've researched it much more since, and realize that my optimism was unwarranted.
My perceptions don't match yours, but thank you, I appreciate your giving me some insight into where you're coming from.
| 414 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:08:54am |
re: #409 SteveC
I'm just funnin' with ya, of course, but if you were to show up at my home for any reason, you'd be warmly welcomed!
Heck, if I'd have known I would have brought a batch of my extra special custard eggnog ;).
| 415 |
stayfrosty Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:09:38am |
re: #412 cliffster
Watching the CNN coverage of the attempted attack yesterday and they haven't said the word "muslim" once.
I was watching live MSNBC, I think it was, one of their field reporters said he was suspected of having connections to "Islami--uh, uh--extremist organizations".
| 416 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:09:45am |
re: #411 MandyManners
All the more profit, dood!
Can you get a buzz from smoking basil leaf?
If so, I'm in.
| 417 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:10:19am |
re: #412 cliffster
Watching the CNN coverage of the attempted attack yesterday and they haven't said the word "muslim" once.
Tell me you expected otherwise!
| 418 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:10:45am |
re: #416 Irish Rose
Can you get a buzz from smoking basil leaf?
If so, I'm in.
You can get a good buzz drinking Basil Hayden's!
| 419 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:10:53am |
re: #398 Irish Rose
I got the best Christmas gift yesterday... my sweetie built me a self-contained hydroponics unit for my kitchen herbs so that I can bring my passion for gardening indoors during the cold winter months.
Congratulations! You should really enjoy it. Even though I still have plenty of herbs surviving in the garden I use my indoor hydroponic herbs a lot. It beats going out into the cold, dark, rainy and windy garden.
| 420 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:11:14am |
re: #416 Irish Rose
Can you get a buzz from smoking basil leaf?
If so, I'm in.
Give it a shot. I'll be anxiously awaiting your report..
| 422 |
NorthWhale Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:11:35am |
re: #404 albusteve
Got it :-) Thanks for showing me that one. It looks very interesting and I am definitely going to read it after work tomorrow. Seems like it's mostly about ozone though and probably ending up with some speculations about global warming.
| 423 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:11:43am |
re: #419 Killgore Trout
Congratulations! You should really enjoy it. Even though I still have plenty of herbs surviving in the garden I use my indoor hydroponic herbs a lot. It beats going out into the cold, dark, rainy and windy garden.
don't they conk out if it freezes?
| 424 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:12:36am |
"It raises some serious questions, such as how was this person able to bring an explosive substance aboard a commercial airliner?" said Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, the senior Republican on the Senate Homeland Security Committee.
Yes, Senator, I think that's the key question here.
| 425 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:13:15am |
re: #423 albusteve
Some of those herbs are pretty tough. Sage, rosemary and thyme will take some pretty serious freezes.
| 426 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:13:28am |
re: #419 Killgore Trout
Congratulations! You should really enjoy it. Even though I still have plenty of herbs surviving in the garden I use my indoor hydroponic herbs a lot. It beats going out into the cold, dark, rainy and windy garden.
I live in Michigan, don't have that option. Grow it indoors in the winter or forgetaboudit.
How's the taste comparison between herbs grown outdoors and herbs grown hydroponically? I'm a gourmet cook and very fussy about my ingredients.
| 427 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:14:13am |
re: #415 stayfrosty
I was watching live MSNBC, I think it was, one of their field reporters said he was suspected of having connections to "Islami--uh, uh--extremist organizations".
These guys who try to blow up planes are about as muslim as Timothy McVeigh was a Christian. Extremist organizations would be the most accurate way of identifying them. Religion is used as a tool to manipulate people into group-think. People who shoot doctors who perform abortions are no different.
| 428 |
KronoGhazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:14:23am |
re: #418 MandyManners
You can get a good buzz drinking Basil Hayden's!
never had Basil Haydens' but a local wine shop has a bottle. However, I am awaiting a special bottle of single malt in the mail. Don't want to be 'overstocked.'
| 429 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:14:41am |
re: #425 Killgore Trout
Some of those herbs are pretty tough. Sage, rosemary and thyme will take some pretty serious freezes.
Throw in some parsley and you have a pretty good song.
| 430 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:15:16am |
re: #403 MandyManners
I can think of one crop to grow!
In the basement, with lots of ultraviolet lighting?
| 431 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:15:32am |
re: #424 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes, Senator, I think that's the key question here.
what an astute observation senator...such keen insight will surly lead to victory over world wide terrorism
| 432 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:15:38am |
re: #421 MandyManners
My Christmas Eve chili is ready. bbiab
*looks at Calendar* What time zone you in, Mandy?!?!?!
| 433 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:15:53am |
re: #426 Irish Rose
How's the taste comparison between herbs grown outdoors and herbs grown hydroponically? I'm a gourmet cook and very fussy about my ingredients.
When it's done right they taste identical. It can be a little tricky, if you don't change the water every week or if you over fertilize the plants can get a little endemic. If you ever need advice of have questions let me know. I'm getting pretty good at this.
| 434 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:16:07am |
re: #428 BigPapa
never had Basil Haydens' but a local wine shop has a bottle. However, I am awaiting a special bottle of single malt in the mail. Don't want to be 'overstocked.'
Give it a whirl one day. Smoother than a baby's bottom.
| 435 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:17:17am |
re: #433 Killgore Trout
When it's done right they taste identical. It can be a little tricky, if you don't change the water every week or if you over fertilize the plants can get a little endemic. If you ever need advice of have questions let me know. I'm getting pretty good at this.
I'm a beginner, so I'll be sure to do that.
You were the one who inspired me to give it a try, btw.
| 436 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:17:22am |
re: #412 cliffster
Watching the CNN coverage of the attempted attack yesterday and they haven't said the word "muslim" once.
On the other hand, they're saying "Al Qaeda" over and over. Do you think there are people who don't realize that Al Qaeda is a radical Islamic group?
| 437 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:17:26am |
re: #427 darthstar
These guys who try to blow up planes are about as muslim as Timothy McVeigh was a Christian. Extremist organizations would be the most accurate way of identifying them. Religion is used as a tool to manipulate people into group-think. People who shoot doctors who perform abortions are no different.
perfect decsriptor for the Islamists
| 438 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:17:46am |
re: #430 Gang of One
In the basement, with lots of ultraviolet lighting?
I had a friend in college who had a whole basement filled with hot-house weed. It gave off a purple-red glow.
| 439 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:17:49am |
re: #431 albusteve
what an astute observation senator...such keen insight will surly lead to victory over world wide terrorism
Sounds like al-Qaeda boy burned his leg pretty damn good. That's something.
I also like the way the AP piece states that his device 'apparently' did not explode sufficiently to bring the Airbus down. As though we were still waiting on evidence there.
Journalists are high entertainment sometimes.
| 440 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:18:15am |
re: #432 SteveC
*looks at Calendar* What time zone you in, Mandy?!?!?!
I cooked chile Thursday night and warmed it up today.
| 441 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:18:21am |
Day-UM!!!
There are H1N1 patients in Canada who have been on ventilators since September.
Some of the sickest patients, their heavy lungs so inflamed and fluid-filled, have had to be turned onto their stomachs and ventilated, face down, to keep secretions and bacteria from pooling in the back of their lungs.
| 442 |
KronoGhazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:19:13am |
re: #427 darthstar
These guys who try to blow up planes are about as muslim as Timothy McVeigh was a Christian. Extremist organizations would be the most accurate way of identifying them. Religion is used as a tool to manipulate people into group-think. People who shoot doctors who perform abortions are no different.
Actually, McVeigh was an anti government terrorist. And the vast majority of extremism is Muslim, which happens to foment the vast majority of terrorism.
Muslim terrorism is exactly what it is.
| 443 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:19:19am |
re: #440 MandyManners
I cooked chile Thursday night and warmed it up today.
Chili.
It'd be hard to cook an entire nation.
| 444 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:19:35am |
re: #427 darthstar
These guys who try to blow up planes are about as muslim as Timothy McVeigh was a Christian. Extremist organizations would be the most accurate way of identifying them. Religion is used as a tool to manipulate people into group-think. People who shoot doctors who perform abortions are no different.
Timothy McVeight was a Christian. He self-identified as a Christian, congregated with people who self-identified as Christians, and the Christian Identity movement is a recognized (although radical) Christian sect.
What do you mean.
| 445 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:20:03am |
| 446 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:21:07am |
re: #444 Walter L. Newton
Timothy McVeight was a Christian. He self-identified as a Christian, congregated with people who self-identified as Christians, and the Christian Identity movement is a recognized (although radical) Christian sect.
What do you mean.
I'm going to guess he means that McVeigh is not a representative Christian.
| 447 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:21:18am |
re: #443 MandyManners
Chili.
It'd be hard to cook an entire nation.
ironically, modern man can actually do that now
| 448 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:21:44am |
re: #428 BigPapa
never had Basil Haydens' but a local wine shop has a bottle. However, I am awaiting a special bottle of single malt in the mail. Don't want to be 'overstocked.'
Get the Basil Haydens. One is bourbon, the other single malt. You won't be sorry.
| 449 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:22:01am |
I missed all the fun on LGF yesterday, hope you had a very merry Christmas Charles.
| 450 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:22:07am |
Has anybody seen the new "Sherlock Holmes" movie? As a Sherlock Holmes fan, I think I'm not going to avoid seeing it on principle, unless I can use it as a bargaining chip to avoid having to take my kids to see Alvin and the Chipmunks the "squeaqual" (barf).
| 451 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:22:10am |
The government shouldn't reward liars. But that's the effect of changes to the Obama administration's failing program to help homeowners modify their mortgages.Until recently the rules were clear: if you grossly understated your income to qualify for the program, you had to restart the loan modification process. It made sense. After all, we got into this housing mess partly because too many people were dishonest about how much they made.
Fast forward to today. The federally funded Home Affordable Modification Program was aimed at getting banks to rework mortgages for homeowners in order to slow the pace of foreclosures. The government set a goal of modifying up to 4 million mortgages over the next three years.
The program isn't working like it's supposed to. Since March, just 31,000 homeowners have won permanent relief. One big reason why is that lenders are doing what they should have been doing all along -- requiring things like proof of income.
How's the government responding? By letting homeowners who fudge their income numbers off the hook with little more than a wink and a nod.
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is one definition of insanity.
| 452 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:22:10am |
re: #438 MandyManners
I had a friend in college who had a whole basement filled with hot-house weed. It gave off a purple-red glow.
Before or after you smoked it?
| 453 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:22:19am |
| 454 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:22:54am |
re: #446 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm going to guess he means that McVeigh is not a representative Christian.
nuance...it's all relative
| 455 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:23:51am |
re: #450 John Neverbend
Has anybody seen the new "Sherlock Holmes" movie? As a Sherlock Holmes fan, I think I'm not going to avoid seeing it on principle, unless I can use it as a bargaining chip to avoid having to take my kids to see Alvin and the Chipmunks the "squeaqual" (barf).
I rented Gran Torrino, terrible movie imo
| 456 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:24:04am |
re: #446 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm going to guess he means that McVeigh is not a representative Christian.
That's not what he said.
| 457 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:25:01am |
re: #443 MandyManners
Chili.
It'd be hard to cook an entire nation.
Well, chile is the correct word for those little peppers, but who am I ...
| 458 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:25:23am |
| 459 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:25:24am |
re: #450 John Neverbend
Has anybody seen the new "Sherlock Holmes" movie? As a Sherlock Holmes fan, I think I'm
notgoing to avoid seeing it on principle, unless I can use it as a bargaining chip to avoid having to take my kids to see Alvin and the Chipmunks the "squeaqual" (barf).
Negating the not.
| 460 |
SteveC Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:25:57am |
He remembers sitting in federal advisory committee meetings, thinking, "They don't trust scientists enough to work on this thing, but it's not important enough to notify the parents of children when schools have the infection? It was getting a little bit Kafkaesque."
| 461 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:26:31am |
re: #435 Irish Rose
I'm a beginner, so I'll be sure to do that.
You were the one who inspired me to give it a try, btw.
You'll enjoy it. I'm pretty addicted. My Christmas dinner was hydroponic basil pesto. It's freezing outside and I have fresh herbs, peppers, tomatoes, kumkuats, peas and salad greens. I barely have to grocery shop anymore. There's always plenty of food in the house.
| 462 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:27:10am |
Great. Now I'll have Scarborough Fair stuck in my head all day. Speaking of gardens, I need to go screw in the irrigation on mine. I've still got lettuce and broccoli left after the sadistic December Texas freeze wiped out everything else.
| 463 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:27:26am |
re: #461 Killgore Trout
Better'n Farmtown on Facebook.
| 464 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:27:32am |
re: #450 John Neverbend
Has anybody seen the new "Sherlock Holmes" movie? As a Sherlock Holmes fan, I think I'm not going to avoid seeing it on principle, unless I can use it as a bargaining chip to avoid having to take my kids to see Alvin and the Chipmunks the "squeaqual" (barf).
Alvin's okay! Those helium voices for 90 minutes weren't too irritating, since the kids were enjoying it so much.
| 465 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:28:17am |
Not completely OT but I am actually looking now at my very empty bottle of Basil Haydens. And my friends down the block invited me over later this evening ...
| 466 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:28:45am |
re: #412 cliffster
Watching the CNN coverage of the attempted attack yesterday and they haven't said the word "muslim" once.
Did they say, "No connection with the Tea Party Movement could be immediately established." ?
| 467 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:29:55am |
re: #461 Killgore Trout
You'll enjoy it. I'm pretty addicted. My Christmas dinner was hydroponic basil pesto. It's freezing outside and I have fresh herbs, peppers, tomatoes, kumkuats, peas and salad greens. I barely have to grocery shop anymore. There's always plenty of food in the house.
How do you have your tomato units set up?
| 468 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:29:59am |
re: #464 The Sanity Inspector
Alvin's okay! Those helium voices for 90 minutes weren't too irritating, since the kids were enjoying it so much.
I fell asleep in the first movie. I think I'll be able to repeat that today. Mind you, every other bugger in New York is going to be trying to see the movie, so I may end up with my nose practically touching the screen.
| 469 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:30:41am |
re: #460 SteveC
What Brown found most bizarre was that, at that time, many schools in Ottawa had decided not to notify parents if a case of swine flu was identified, because the level of risk of severe disease in infected schoolchildren wasn't considered severe enough to warrant notifying parents.
What about parents? Grandparents?
| 470 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:31:25am |
re: #465 Gang of One
Not completely OT but I am actually looking now at my very empty bottle of Basil Haydens. And my friends down the block invited me over later this evening ...
Go get another one!
| 471 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:31:57am |
re: #466 The Sanity Inspector
Did they say, "No connection with the Tea Party Movement could be immediately established." ?
I almost spat out a chunk of chili.
| 472 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:32:19am |
| 473 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:35:01am |
re: #472 Gang of One
You sound exactly like the voices in my head!
I'm better looking than those voices.
| 474 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:35:09am |
re: #467 Irish Rose
I've been meaning to post some pics of my set up for a while. Maybe I'll do it this week. Tomatoes grow really quickly so I keep one plant per 5 gallon bucket. It's all self contained and has its own support stakes built in. My tomato plant is slowing down because after about 4 months its roots have filled up the container and I think it's getting pot bound. I'm going to start a new one from cuttings this weekend and start over again. Cuttings reproduce really fast and the new plant will start producing tomatoes almost immediately.
| 475 |
cliffster Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:35:35am |
re: #466 The Sanity Inspector
Did they say, "No connection with the Tea Party Movement could be immediately established." ?
Nope, and nothing about backlash against 8 years of failed Bush international policies. Weird.
| 476 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:35:42am |
this is a great idea imo...
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
but then of course...
Critics say it is encouraging vigilantism and stoking anti-immigrant feeling.
| 477 |
lawhawk Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:36:40am |
Hmmm... a prominent Nigerian banker thinks that it might be his son who was captured on that NW airlines plane attempting to blow himself and the plane up on approach to Detroit.
Multiple law enforcement officials identified the suspect in Friday's attempted attack as Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab. He was described as Nigerian.In Nigeria, a prominent banker said Saturday that he was meeting with security officials there because he feared his son was the suspect. Alhaji Umaru Mutallab told The Associated Press said his son was a one-time university student in London who had left Britain to travel abroad. He said his son hadn't lived in London "for some time" but he wasn't sure exactly where he went to.
"I believe he might have been to Yemen, but we are investigating to determine that," the elder Mutallab said. He said he would provide more details later Saturday as he learned more from authorities.
One law enforcement official said the man claimed to have been instructed by al-Qaida to detonate the plane over U.S. soil, but other law enforcement officials cautioned that such claims could not be verified immediately, and said the man may have been acting independently — inspired but not specifically trained or ordered by terror groups.
| 478 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:38:13am |
re: #477 lawhawk
Hmmm... a prominent Nigerian banker thinks that it might be his son who was captured on that NW airlines plane attempting to blow himself and the plane up on approach to Detroit.
Well, that's got to be a little wake-up bounce with your morning coffee.
| 479 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:38:32am |
| 480 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:38:36am |
re: #476 albusteve
this is a great idea imo...
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
but then of course...
Critics say it is encouraging vigilantism and stoking anti-immigrant feeling.
I wonder if Eliot Shapleigh gets money from pro-illegal immigration groups.
| 481 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:39:37am |
re: #474 Killgore Trout
Very cool.
If you have some time down the road could you email me your instructions for assembling a basic 5 gal unit?
| 482 |
jaunte Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:39:44am |
re: #476 albusteve
Jay Stanley of the American Civil Liberties Union says that while it is "legitimate to protect the country's border, we would be concerned that the cameras might encourage vigilantism. That people would think they saw an illegal immigrant and then jump in their truck with a gun."
Well that seems like a pretty slippery slope.
Especially considering this part:
...more than 130,000 people have registered to become " virtual deputies". They are located as far afield as Australia, Mexico, Colombia, Israel, New Zealand and the UK.
| 483 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:39:46am |
re: #477 lawhawk
Hmmm... a prominent Nigerian banker thinks that it might be his son who was captured on that NW airlines plane attempting to blow himself and the plane up on approach to Detroit.
As I noted above, that's another chink in the liberal belief that terrorism is caused by poverty and ignorance.
| 484 |
lawhawk Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:40:33am |
re: #478 SanFranciscoZionist
And of course there's the inevitable Nigerian banker joke in there somewhere; he's willing to confirm that it's his son if you allow him to wire you $385,000 to your account provided you include your ssn, account number and routing numbers.
| 485 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:40:44am |
| 486 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:40:52am |
re: #482 jaunte
Can't waste a chance to attack the right to bear arms!
| 487 |
MandyManners Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:42:40am |
Speaking of Basil, Rathbone is on TCM as Sherlock Holmes.
| 488 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:42:55am |
| 489 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:43:40am |
wow...outnumbered 8-1, but this woman makes her escape...
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
| 491 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:45:48am |
re: #482 jaunte
ya just can't win...reporting crime along the border is a bad thing
| 492 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:46:23am |
re: #489 albusteve
wow...outnumbered 8-1, but this woman makes her escape...
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
| 493 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:46:28am |
re: #489 albusteve
wow...outnumbered 8-1, but this woman makes her escape...
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
Troublemaker. Doesn't she know that police paperwork after the completion of a crime is all the protection New Yorkers need?
| 494 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:46:54am |
re: #481 Irish Rose
I think I still have it saved somewhere. You'll have to promise to but the next cookbook when it comes out but I'll give you a preview.
| 495 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:47:15am |
re: #489 albusteve
wow...outnumbered 8-1, but this woman makes her escape...
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
And not one cop in sight? Good for her; one less POS goblin.
| 496 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:47:18am |
| 497 |
abolitionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:48:14am |
re: #413 SanFranciscoZionist
My perceptions don't match yours, but thank you, I appreciate your giving me some insight into where you're coming from.
I think it was the harsh critique (Nov 2, 2004) that The van Gogh's and Hirsi Ali's Submission drew, along with the declaration of war on the Netherlands, it's politicians, Europe, and the USA, in the note that was "pinned" to his chest, that turned me around. The supposed inclusiveness of islam doesn't even include women. That's half of humanity. When I joined LGF a couple months or later, I was not a happy camper, and I'm sure it showed.
| 498 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:48:52am |
re: #483 MandyManners
As I noted above, that's another chink in the liberal belief that terrorism is caused by poverty and ignorance.
This is typically what happens when either side, right or left, takes a cavalier attitude towards reality. Eventually all comes full circle. The terrorist are poor meme, which mainly came from the left, is being disproved over and over as the years go on, and we are finding out these people come from a multitude of social and financial backgrounds.
We saw this up thread. Darthstar claims that this man is no more Muslim than McViegh was Christian. But that argument doesn't fly. Over and over we heard from the left the meme that McVeigh was a Christian terrorist and that there is not much different from the radical Christian right than the radical branch of Islam. But suddenly Darthstar forgets the popular perception that the left pushed, because it no longer supports the current thesis.
And closer to home, Suchislife trashing you, Mandy, for your avatar, and then having to twist and spin in the wind, forgetting that the very left that colors Suchislife's thinking is the same left that supported "piss christ" and other such images. Once again a leftist meme comes full circle and and they can't help but trip over it.
It's catching up with the left (and the right)... and it's quite funny to watch.
| 499 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:49:11am |
re: #495 Gang of One
And not one cop in sight? Good for her; one less POS goblin.
The dead guy's cousin says the girl has a 'history of stabbing people'.
| 501 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:50:19am |
re: #498 Walter L. Newton
This is typically what happens when either side, right or left, takes a cavalier attitude towards reality. Eventually all comes full circle. The terrorist are poor meme, which mainly came from the left, is being disproved over and over as the years go on, and we are finding out these people come from a multitude of social and financial backgrounds.
We saw this up thread. Darthstar claims that this man is no more Muslim than McViegh was Christian. But that argument doesn't fly. Over and over we heard from the left the meme that McVeigh was a Christian terrorist and that there is not much different from the radical Christian right than the radical branch of Islam. But suddenly Darthstar forgets the popular perception that the left pushed, because it no longer supports the current thesis.
And closer to home, Suchislife trashing you, Mandy, for your avatar, and then having to twist and spin in the wind, forgetting that the very left that colors Suchislife's thinking is the same left that supported "piss christ" and other such images. Once again a leftist meme comes full circle and and they can't help but trip over it.
It's catching up with the left (and the right)... and it's quite funny to watch.
We are more than the sum of our memes.
| 502 |
jaunte Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:50:52am |
re: #491 albusteve
I wonder if the objections would be over if they prohibited people within an hour (truck) drive from the border from participating in the watch site.
Probably not.
| 503 |
Irish Rose Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:50:54am |
The family is here and we're all off to lunch, have a good day everyone!
| 504 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:51:41am |
re: #499 SanFranciscoZionist
The dead guy's cousin says the girl has a 'history of stabbing people'.
And the guy who got stabbed had a stellar record, no doubt.
Any witnesses?
| 505 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:53:32am |
re: #504 Gang of One
And the guy who got stabbed had a stellar record, no doubt.
Any witnesses?
Well the guy who got stabbed had a record, yes.
Not clear to me if anyone beside the perps and the girl were there.
| 507 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:55:54am |
re: #501 SanFranciscoZionist
We are more than the sum of our memes.
So... does that make my point wrong? I am talking about memes and certain one that exist on the left. I didn't say it defines the whole of anything, did I. Don't try to read my mind and decide I was meaning more or less than what I wrote.
| 508 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:56:05am |
re: #502 jaunte
I wonder if the objections would be over if they prohibited people within an hour (truck) drive from the border from participating in the watch site.
Probably not.
it's quite a stretch from simply reporting a crime to vigilantism....but you hear that over and over...if you ask me that's an extremist attitude, the ACLU is off it's logical rocker once again...if they had their way, reporting a crime would be a hate crime in this scenario
| 509 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:56:43am |
re: #505 SanFranciscoZionist
Well the guy who got stabbed had a record, yes.
Not clear to me if anyone beside the perps and the girl were there.
Well, the attackers and the girl knew each other. The rest of the group will giver her name to the police. When she is found, her background/history will come to light.
Still, if she "had a history" of stabbing people, what happened first? The group assault or the stabbing?
| 510 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:56:59am |
re: #507 Walter L. Newton
So... does that make my point wrong? I am talking about memes and certain one that exist on the left. I didn't say it defines the whole of anything, did I. Don't try to read my mind and decide I was meaning more or less than what I wrote.
Don't try to read my mind either, thanks.
| 511 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 10:57:42am |
| 512 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:00:22am |
re: #498 Walter L. Newton
The terrorist are poor meme, which mainly came from the left, is being disproved over and over as the years go on, and we are finding out these people come from a multitude of social and financial backgrounds.
I agree. Do you think it's possible though that poverty has something to do with the support terrorists enjoy in a community?
| 513 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:00:48am |
re: #511 Walter L. Newton
Ok, was my point wrong?
Dunno. I often find people here trying to trip the 'liberals' up on such things. Can't speak for suchislife, but I have never liked MM's avatar, never liked Serrano's work, and am not asking for either to be censored. What does that make me?
Perfect consistency of thought is rare, left and right.
| 514 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:01:07am |
| 515 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:01:54am |
re: #498 Walter L. Newton
This is typically what happens when either side, right or left, takes a cavalier attitude towards reality. Eventually all comes full circle. The terrorist are poor meme, which mainly came from the left, is being disproved over and over as the years go on, and we are finding out these people come from a multitude of social and financial backgrounds.
I agree. Do you think it's possible though that poverty has something to do with the level of support terrorists enjoy in a community?
| 516 |
jaunte Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:03:39am |
re: #508 albusteve
It looks like the ACLU opinion on surveillance cameras in general is that they are both ineffective for crime prevention, and so effective for potential abusers, that they should not be used.
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 517 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:03:58am |
President Obama recently named the TARP bailout, originated under his predecessor, as the "most important thing" he has done so far.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Fifty-five financial companies failed to pay dividends in November on money they borrowed from the U.S. government, bank research firm SNL said on Wednesday.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
| 518 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:05:34am |
re: #515 suchislife
I agree. Do you think it's possible though that poverty has something to do with the level of support terrorists enjoy in a community?
I saw a lot of dirt poor Mexicans when I lived there. None of them were terrorists, but some of them did rally behind Subcommandante Marcos for the Zapatista Insurgency almost 16 years ago.
| 519 |
KronoGhazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:05:57am |
re: #513 SanFranciscoZionist
Dunno. I often find people here trying to trip the 'liberals' up on such things.
Yes, but in this case Walter just called up a few memes at play, not a larger 'lets trip up some liberals again,' which does happen. The right has it's memes and they get rightfully called out here.
Walter's post in and of itself was just that, a good post. He's not a usual 'get lefties' poster so I took it at face value, as it should have been.
| 520 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:07:51am |
re: #487 MandyManners
Speaking of Basil, Rathbone is on TCM as Sherlock Holmes.
He was good, but in my opinion, Brett was the best.
| 521 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:08:23am |
re: #516 jaunte
It looks like the ACLU opinion on surveillance cameras in general is that they are both ineffective for crime prevention, and so effective for potential abusers, that they should not be used.
[Link: www.google.com...]
there are hundreds of thousands of these cameras all over the country....they have been very effective in ABQ with regards to traffic violations...ha!...the whole issue is make believe busy work for the ACLU
| 522 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:09:49am |
re: #515 suchislife
I agree. Do you think it's possible though that poverty has something to do with the level of support terrorists enjoy in a community?
Honestly, I think it's situational. In the case of Northern Ireland, for example, I think it actually had a lot to do with the economics of the comunity, although not everything.
In the case of Islamic fundamentalist terror, which is what we're really talking about here, I think less so, although I think the ignorance and limited world view preserved by poverty (and tribalism) certainly helps terror groups in a number of settings--Afghanistan comes to mind. But Saudi, for example, is hardly a poor nation (to put it mildly), and they've produced the cream of the terrorist crop. In their case, they've used their money to produce fanaticism and insularity. And certainly, al-Qaeda, for example does not recruit from the poor.
Flip-side, the Palestinian groups do recruit from the poor, and use economic and social pressures to impress suicide bombers into service, or did some years ago, the tactic is less common at the moment.
| 523 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:09:53am |
re: #515 suchislife
I agree. Do you think it's possible though that poverty has something to do with the level of support terrorists enjoy in a community?
Ideology... we are talking ideology, theology... I have belong to numerous religious cults, certain cults that appeal to poor, less educated populations and cults that are exclusive, which appeal to doctors and lawyers and other highly educated adults.
You would be surprised the education level of certain groups which you would probably expect to consist of half-witted drooling sycophants.
No, the ideology of a community supports the radicals of the community.
| 524 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:10:42am |
MoveOn rewrites Christmas carol: Insurance companies will 'let us die'
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
| 525 |
jaunte Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:10:59am |
re: #521 albusteve
there are hundreds of thousands of these cameras all over the country...they have been very effective in ABQ with regards to traffic violations...ha!...the whole issue is make believe busy work for the ACLU
| 526 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:11:25am |
And closer to home, Suchislife trashing you, Mandy, for your avatar, and then having to twist and spin in the wind, forgetting that the very left that colors Suchislife's thinking is the same left that supported "piss christ" and other such images. Once again a leftist meme comes full circle and and they can't help but trip over it.
I was not trashing Mandy for her Avatar. Mandy, I critized your Avatar, because it bothered me that it seemed to go so much against your pretty thin skin when it comes to issues of faith in general, and than it sort of snowballed into a whole thread. That was not my intention.
As for my point, I'm still thinking about the whole thing, sort of writing down my thoughts about it, and I keep realizing new things I didn't consider before.
| 527 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:12:17am |
re: #524 albusteve
MoveOn rewrites Christmas carol: Insurance companies will 'let us die'
[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]
But this is nothing like the right's hyperbole about death panels?
| 528 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:12:20am |
re: #526 suchislife
That's the second "re:" You have a cough, or something?
| 529 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:12:33am |
| 530 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:13:35am |
re: #527 Walter L. Newton
But this is nothing like the right's hyperbole about death panels?
certainly not!...don't fuck with my meme!
| 531 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:15:08am |
re: #523 Walter L. Newton
Ideology... we are talking ideology, theology... I have belong to numerous religious cults, certain cults that appeal to poor, less educated populations and cults that are exclusive, which appeal to doctors and lawyers and other highly educated adults.
You would be surprised the education level of certain groups which you would probably expect to consist of half-witted drooling sycophants.
No, the ideology of a community supports the radicals of the community.
You know why we have the "poor" meme when it comes to terrorists? Because it's politically incorrect to simply go to the real root of the problem, the theology, and point out the flaws there.
So, many have to find some other reason, ones that on the periphery, my influence in some ways, but is far from the root cause.
| 532 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:15:26am |
re: #518 Gang of One
I saw a lot of dirt poor Mexicans when I lived there. None of them were terrorists, but some of them did rally behind Subcommandante Marcos for the Zapatista Insurgency almost 16 years ago.
And in some areas, people support, or at least fear the narcos far more than any government agency.
| 533 |
John Neverbend Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:15:28am |
re: #523 Walter L. Newton
I have belong to numerous religious cults.....and cults that are exclusive, which appeal to doctors and lawyers and other highly educated adults.
Which cults are those, for doctors, lawyers and other educated people?
| 534 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:16:03am |
re: #519 BigPapa
Yes, but in this case Walter just called up a few memes at play, not a larger 'lets trip up some liberals again,' which does happen. The right has it's memes and they get rightfully called out here.
Walter's post in and of itself was just that, a good post. He's not a usual 'get lefties' poster so I took it at face value, as it should have been.
Fair enough. I didn't actually attack anything he said, BTW.
| 535 |
KronoGhazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:16:45am |
Anytime you want something just say 'Give it to us now!'
MoveOn should be called MoveOnToSocialismNOW!
| 536 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:16:48am |
re: #522 SanFranciscoZionist
Saudi, for example, is hardly a poor nation (to put it mildly), and they've produced the cream of the terrorist crop. In their case, they've used their money to produce fanaticism and insularity. And certainly, al-Qaeda, for example does not recruit from the poor.
I would certainly agree that poverty is not the only reason why people support terrorists. Ideological hatred is also necessary. I actually know very little about the population of Saudi Arabia as opposed to the ruling class.
| 537 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:17:44am |
re: #533 John Neverbend
Which cults are those, for doctors, lawyers and other educated people?
the AMA
the ABA
the NEA
| 538 |
KronoGhazi Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:19:31am |
re: #531 Walter L. Newton
You know why we have the "poor" meme when it comes to terrorists? Because it's politically incorrect to simply go to the real root of the problem, the theology, and point out the flaws there.
It's that, and a compounding factor: another reason that we should abolish poverty because it makes people terrorists. Therefore, to fight terrorism leftist concepts to fight terrorism should be forwarded.
| 539 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:19:57am |
re: #528 Gang of One
Those were actually brilliant comments that would have convinced everyone of the fairness and validity of my thoughts (which I'm currently still trying to both clarify for myself and write up for walter). Does anyone know how exactly that happens? I have no idea what I did wrong.
| 540 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:20:06am |
re: #536 suchislife
I would certainly agree that poverty is not the only reason why people support terrorists. Ideological hatred is also necessary. I actually know very little about the population of Saudi Arabia as opposed to the ruling class.
the ME is not renowned for it's flourishing middle class
| 541 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:20:20am |
re: #533 John Neverbend
Which cults are those, for doctors, lawyers and other educated people?
Jehovah's Witnesses. It's consider a major cult by all Christian apologetics, yet if you look at the make up of both many members and leadership, there are a lot a doctors, lawyers and other well educated people.
As another aside, look at Scientology. The Celebrity Center in LA attracts many power people.
| 542 |
SixDegrees Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:20:47am |
re: #533 John Neverbend
Which cults are those, for doctors, lawyers and other educated people?
I can't speak for Walter, but Scientology has all the earmarks of a cult, yet markets itself - successfully - to the rich and well educated. Also, it seems to me that many of the 9/11 hijackers, and several others involved in high-profile terrorist attacks, have been college educated, at least. Bin Laden, if I recall, held an engineering degree, and Zawahiri is a physician. And Wahabism, centered in Saudi Arabia, receives huge influxes of cash from wealthy members of the royal family and their hangers-on.
Walter is correct that the correlation between poverty and terrorist activity is weak. I would suggest that poverty does, however, make certain types of recruitment easier that wouldn't be effective in more affluent ranks.
| 543 |
Gang of One Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:21:22am |
re: #532 SanFranciscoZionist
And in some areas, people support, or at least fear the narcos far more than any government agency.
Yeah, some people see the traffickers as Robin Hoods. And in other areas, it is usually that the narcotrafficantes and the government agencies are one in the same.
| 545 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:24:40am |
re: #541 Walter L. Newton
Jehovah's Witnesses. It's consider a major cult by all Christian apologetics, yet if you look at the make up of both many members and leadership, there are a lot a doctors, lawyers and other well educated people.
As another aside, look at Scientology. The Celebrity Center in LA attracts many power people.
Christian Science has always attracted the well to do, most people consider them a cult, and then there is the CLS...both have their prophets
| 546 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:27:13am |
re: #542 SixDegrees
I can't speak for Walter, but Scientology has all the earmarks of a cult, yet markets itself - successfully - to the rich and well educated. Also, it seems to me that many of the 9/11 hijackers, and several others involved in high-profile terrorist attacks, have been college educated, at least. Bin Laden, if I recall, held an engineering degree, and Zawahiri is a physician. And Wahabism, centered in Saudi Arabia, receives huge influxes of cash from wealthy members of the royal family and their hangers-on.
Walter is correct that the correlation between poverty and terrorist activity is weak. I would suggest that poverty does, however, make certain types of recruitment easier that wouldn't be effective in more affluent ranks.
A simple historical analogy... look at the French Revolution, fueled by young men with raising expectations that went unmet. Educated and not poor, they belonged to a society that didn't offer them the outlet, they were frustrated and felt trapped... we know what happened next.
We see a similar thing happening to these Middle East terrorists.
| 547 |
suchislife Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:33:20am |
I have to go do some stuff. Mandy, I already wrote this in a comment higher up. I was bothered by your avatar in connection with what seems like pretty thin skin when it comes to other people talking about people of faith and a tendency to take offence when none was intended. So I brought it up, and then it kind of snowballed into a longer thing.
I also realized that I actually didn't feel like bringing this up with you, because I got a pretty unfavorable impression of you over the last weeks.
I'm still thinking about the whole issue. Anything you might want to say about it, I'll certainly read carefully.
| 548 |
The Sanity Inspector Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:37:08am |
re: #539 suchislife
Those were actually brilliant comments that would have convinced everyone of the fairness and validity of my thoughts (which I'm currently still trying to both clarify for myself and write up for walter). Does anyone know how exactly that happens? I have no idea what I did wrong.
Be sure you're not typing inside the blockquote tags.
| 549 |
prairiefire Sat, Dec 26, 2009 11:49:23am |
re: #546 Walter L. Newton
I thought you were going to mention EST.
| 550 |
ryannon Sat, Dec 26, 2009 12:06:22pm |
| 551 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 26, 2009 1:48:27pm |
re: #547 suchislife
Your comments were great and thoughtful. Your distaste (or rather worries) about that avatar are shared by others here.
Bear in mind that the commentariat on this site has undergone a lot of change over the last six months. People who were here for a long time aren't always dealing well with it. The commenters we've lost due to banning or flouncing have been conservatives, and we're now seeing more liberal and moderate posters arriving. Consequently some of the longtime posters here have an instinctive 'circle the wagons' reaction when dealing with new posters or liberal posters-- especially when it involves a criticism of a longtime (and conservative) poster.
You did nothing wrong whatsoever and I'm just giving you the social dynamics background here to help you understand what's going on.
Don't let anyone intimidate you or bully you or lecture you about how you're new and don't have as many rights (!) as someone who has been here longer. That's a crock of shit. As I mentioned upthread, there's an awful lot of people who were here for a long time and are now banned. You're doing great.
| 552 |
Mich-again Sat, Dec 26, 2009 2:39:28pm |
re: #394 darthstar
Their version of God is no better or worse than yours.
What the heck does that have to do with anything I said? I was replying to the stupid meme you recited that the God of Islam is the same as the God of Christianity. Yeah, they're the same all right, if by the same you mean completely different. I never said one was better or worse. Thats just you making a off topic statement posing as a reply to something I said. Nice strawman.
| 553 |
stayfrosty Sat, Dec 26, 2009 3:32:02pm |
re: #427 darthstar
These guys who try to blow up planes are about as muslim as Timothy McVeigh was a Christian. Extremist organizations would be the most accurate way of identifying them. Religion is used as a tool to manipulate people into group-think. People who shoot doctors who perform abortions are no different.
Timothy McVeigh didn't blow up the Murrah Building in the name of Christianity, or because he felt The Bible compelled him to do so, or because his priest or pastor encouraged him to do so.
So religion had very little to do with why Timothy McVeigh blew up that building. And you study the reasons he gave (all of which were related to anti-government sentiment and not Christianity), you'd realize he probably would have done it even if he were an atheist.
None of the same can be said of Islamist terrorism.
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