1 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:36:27pm |
captaincoon, this one is just begging for you to step up and make the first post, or at least second.
4 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:45:07pm |
Wow, we've had almost 1500 clicks on the Twitter link for Gus's post on the HuffPo CEO's donations to the Romney campaign:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
You never know which story's going to suddenly take off. This one obviously hit a nerve with HuffPo's recent turn toward Obama-bashing.
5 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:45:58pm |
re: #3 darthstar
Lemme guess, a thread full of clown car comments?
6 | Obdicut Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:48:41pm |
This thread needs more Professor Brothers:
7 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:49:31pm |
re: #1 Petero1818
Way back a billion years ago, computer software came with exhaustive (and exhausting) printed manuals, often in 3-ring binders. They looked like this:
Image: aPN4x.jpg
Very often, at the end of a section would be a page which simply read:
This page intentionally left blank.
My ~8 year old self was amused and perplexed by this practice. The page isn't blank! Why include a non-blank page pretending to be blank, whose only purpose was to reassure the reader that it was blank on purpose and not due to a printing error? Arrg.
I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be a joke, or some kind of satirical commentary on bureaucracy (at age 8 I probably didn't know the word 'bureaucracy', but I had been in the public school system for a number of years by that time and as such was very familiar with the idea of dumb rules that are only observed because they're rules).
Anyway, all this is to say that your first post inviting someone else to make the first post reminded me of that. Never mind.
8 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:55:31pm |
9 | EdDantes Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:55:32pm |
re: #7 negativ
Yeah. And that sign, "No dogs allowed except guide dogs." Who is that sign for?
10 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:56:32pm |
And congrats to Gus, by the way, for spotting that connection.
11 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:57:42pm |
re: #9 EdDantes
Braille on drive-thru ATMs.
12 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:57:50pm |
re: #10 Charles
And congrats to Gus, by the way, for spotting that connection.
Thanks. I forgot what it was that "set me off" to go and pull that. I'm sure it was something and not based on a whim. :)
13 | PhillyPretzel Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:58:14pm |
Ugh. I have had it with the %$#%^& Rick Santorum ads.
14 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:58:36pm |
re: #9 EdDantes
Yeah. And that sign, "No dogs allowed except guide dogs." Who is that sign for?
literate dogs?
15 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:58:43pm |
re: #7 negativ
Way back a billion years ago, computer software came with exhaustive (and exhausting) printed manuals, often in 3-ring binders. They looked like this:
Image: aPN4x.jpgVery often, at the end of a section would be a page which simply read:
My ~8 year old self was amused and perplexed by this practice. The page isn't blank! Why include a non-blank page pretending to be blank, whose only purpose was to reassure the reader that it was blank on purpose and not due to a printing error? Arrg.
I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be a joke, or some kind of satirical commentary on bureaucracy (at age 8 I probably didn't know the word 'bureaucracy', but I had been in the public school system for a number of years by that time and as such was very familiar with the idea of dumb rules that are only observed because they're rules).
Anyway, all this is to say that your first post inviting someone else to make the first post reminded me of that. Never mind.
When I wrote the manuals for my Atari software company CodeHead Technologies, I would label any blank pages:
This page unintentionally left blank.
17 | EdDantes Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:59:03pm |
18 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:59:16pm |
How about "Unauthorized Personnel Only"?
:)
19 | abolitionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:01:10pm |
Proposed New Calendar Would Make Time Rational
According to Richard Conn Henry’s calendar, eight months would each have 30 days. Every third month would have 31 days. Every so often, to account for the leftover time, a whole extra week would be added.
The upshot: Years would proceed with clockwork regularity, with no annual re-jiggering of schedules required. Each day would occupy the same position as it had the previous year and would in the next. Were this 364-day calendar, known officially as the Hanke-Henry Permanent Calendar, adopted on the first day of 2012, both Christmas and New Year’s Day would forever fall on Sunday.
[snip]
His calendar is a refined version of one designed in 1996 and known eponymously as Bob McClenon’s Reformed Weekly Calendar. McClenon established the four-quarter, 30-30-31 pattern to the year; Henry added the extra week, which if inserted into years starting or ending on a Gregorian-calendar Thursday would almost perfectly account for Earth’s 365.2422 day-long orbit around the sun.
This will probably catch on sooner than my idea for monetary denominations that follow the golden ratio.
20 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:03:16pm |
re: #19 abolitionist
Son of a bitch put my birthday on a Thursday.
21 | abolitionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:04:28pm |
re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth
Son of a bitch put my birthday on a Thursday.
Your mother had nothing to do with it?
22 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:05:48pm |
As much as I detest Rick Santorum and everything he stands for, he actually didn't say "making black people's lives better" today in Iowa.
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]
Check the video - he simply misspoke. He jumbled up the words "people" and "lives," probably because he's rehearsed saying this many times. It wasn't a racist dog whistle.
This time.
23 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:06:12pm |
24 | PhillyPretzel Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:06:22pm |
re: #19 abolitionist
Feburary has 30 days. Whoa. I am accustomed to the 28 day month. That is too weird.
25 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:06:49pm |
re: #7 negativ
Way back a billion years ago, computer software came with exhaustive (and exhausting) printed manuals, often in 3-ring binders. They looked like this:
Image: aPN4x.jpgVery often, at the end of a section would be a page which simply read:
My ~8 year old self was amused and perplexed by this practice. The page isn't blank! Why include a non-blank page pretending to be blank, whose only purpose was to reassure the reader that it was blank on purpose and not due to a printing error? Arrg.
I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be a joke, or some kind of satirical commentary on bureaucracy (at age 8 I probably didn't know the word 'bureaucracy', but I had been in the public school system for a number of years by that time and as such was very familiar with the idea of dumb rules that are only observed because they're rules).
Anyway, all this is to say that your first post inviting someone else to make the first post reminded me of that. Never mind.
I would occasionally add the statement "This page unintentionally left blank" to see if anyone noticed. No one did.
My buddy would add the phrase "in accordance with the prophecies" during meetings just to see who might be paying attention. He only got asked about it once.
26 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:08:04pm |
re: #21 abolitionist
She gave birth to me on a Gregorian calendar, making my birthday fall on a different day every year.
This asshole's calendar would make b-day fall on thursday every year.
He's off the xmas list.
27 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:08:40pm |
re: #26 Slumbering Behemoth
She gave birth to me on a Gregorian calendar, making my birthday fall on a different day every year.
This asshole's calendar would make b-day fall on thursday every year.
He's off the xmas list.
Wow ,, my mom gave birth to me on a hospital bed!!!
28 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:09:48pm |
re: #27 sattv4u2
I still have scars from the paper cuts.
30 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:10:46pm |
re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth
I still have scars from the paper cuts.
And some of the ink came off
Thats why it says October on your ass!!
31 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:12:03pm |
re: #19 abolitionist
Just wait until the Keep Christ in Christmas people figure out that all the days of the week and most of the months of the year are named after pagan gods.
33 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:13:39pm |
35 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:14:03pm |
36 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:14:50pm |
37 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:15:20pm |
re: #31 negativ
39 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:15:45pm |
41 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:16:10pm |
42 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:16:22pm |
re: #39 sattv4u2
Ya gotta wonder what prompted her to put it upside down between her shoulder blades
I don't. ;)
In other words, it wasn't upside down when I was looking at it.
43 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:19:05pm |
re: #36 sattv4u2
bread, milk, juice, potatoes,
bread, milk, juice, potatuhs!
why do all the shoppers hate us?
OCCUPY KROGERS
45 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:19:54pm |
46 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:20:31pm |
re: #22 Charles
As much as I detest Rick Santorum and everything he stands for, he actually didn't say "making black people's lives better" today in Iowa.
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]
Check the video - he simply misspoke. He jumbled up the words "people" and "lives," probably because he's rehearsed saying this many times. It wasn't a racist dog whistle.
This time.
Rick Santorum can make everyone's life better by going and getting raptured with the rest of the confederate bigots.
47 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:20:41pm |
49 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:21:18pm |
You're never too old for love:
50 | PhillyPretzel Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:22:17pm |
re: #48 sattv4u2
You can go there. I will shop at Wegman's.
51 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:23:08pm |
re: #45 Charles
I always knew this would happen.
Ashton Kutcher has opened the gates of Hell.
[Video]
I'm waiting for the evil disc's "totally unauthorized" sex tape
52 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:24:22pm |
re: #50 PhillyPretzel
You can go there. I will shop at Wegman's.
Actually, I can't anymore (unless I want to drive 18 hours to New Jersey ,, the closest one too me now)
53 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:24:50pm |
re: #45 Charles
THAT'S MY CONTACT LENS!!! Fuckin' Kutcher, that asshole.
54 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:25:12pm |
re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm waiting for the evil disc's "totally unauthorized" sex tape
1st photo of Ashton and the Disks secret love child
.
55 | PhillyPretzel Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:26:03pm |
re: #52 sattv4u2
I just got finished at Wegman's earlier this evening. That and I went to BJ's too. I filled up the back of the SUV. :)
56 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:26:55pm |
57 | EdDantes Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:29:05pm |
re: #45 Charles
I said 10 years ago that Ashton is the Anti-christ. Witness!
58 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:30:48pm |
Having both Christmas and New Year's fall on Sunday every single years would be a pain.
It would put a holiday on the following Monday, which would make no sense.
Also, he just did away with Halloween. Don't think that's going to go down well.
Valentine's Day on Monday. Another big I-don't-think-so. (Does this man have a female friend?)
At least two of my kids would have permanent Sunday birthdays.
I vote no.
60 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:32:13pm |
re: #4 Charles
Wow, we've had almost 1500 clicks on the Twitter link for Gus's post on the HuffPo CEO's donations to the Romney campaign:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
You never know which story's going to suddenly take off. This one obviously hit a nerve with HuffPo's recent turn toward Obama-bashing.
I noticed that Politico now has a note to readers asking them to let them know if they notice any media-related campaign contributions. I don't remember seeing that when they originally posted the story.
A NOTE TO READERS: Many media executives make campaign contributions that they are not expected to disclose when their network or newspaper interviews a candidate. (I.e., the Huffington Post didn't do anything out of the ordinary here.) But those contributions and their potential consequences are of great interest here at the intersection of media and politics, and will continue to be reported on. So if you've noticed any media-related campaign contributions you think warrant mention, please send them over.
61 | Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:34:15pm |
re: #37 Slumbering Behemoth
I am so making another with with Jackie Chan--Keep the Chan in Chanukah!
62 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:35:12pm |
re: #61 Alouette
Awesome. Love Jackie Chan.
63 | Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:35:39pm |
re: #19 abolitionist
Proposed New Calendar Would Make Time Rational
This will probably catch on sooner than my idea for monetary denominations that follow the golden ratio.
64 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:37:39pm |
re: #60 CuriousLurker
I noticed that Politico now has a note to readers asking them to let them know if they notice any media-related campaign contributions. I don't remember seeing that when they originally posted the story.
I'm a trend setter. ;)
65 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:38:48pm |
66 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:38:50pm |
re: #63 Alouette
Haven't read up thread, but you are at pit stop? Or made it home?
67 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:39:36pm |
re: #64 Gus 802
I'm a trend setter. ;)
My thoughts exactly, heh: "HuffPo did nothing wrong, BUT if you happen to notice..."
68 | b_sharp Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:39:40pm |
re: #39 sattv4u2
Ya gotta wonder what prompted her to put it upside down between her shoulder blades
I think it's obvious.
69 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:41:00pm |
70 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:41:05pm |
re: #45 Charles
I always knew this would happen.
Ashton Kutcher has opened the gates of Hell.
I hear George Clooney leaked this story because he's upset that his disc only open the gates to Purgatory.
71 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:43:17pm |
re: #67 CuriousLurker
My thoughts exactly, heh: "HuffPo did nothing wrong, BUT if you happen to notice..."
Yeah. Eventually I knew I'd see the usual boiler plate response about the CEO not being involved in editorial decisions. To which I would say "no kidding Arianna." Basically we have a revenue driven website where the majority of the profits will eventually go to "Romney supporting" Timothy Armgstrong. It's rather awkward especially for such a politically driven organization and from the response I've seen on Twitter it raised quite a few eyebrows.
72 | Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:43:40pm |
re: #66 Stanley Sea
Haven't read up thread, but you are at pit stop? Or made it home?
I'm at a Quality Inn in Clarion, PA. The same QI that we stayed at on the way in. It started snowing on the 80 and I don't like to drive in the dark.
We'll be home by tomorrow.
73 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:45:01pm |
I have found one good thing about that calendar:
April 15th falls on a Sunday. We'd always get an extra day.
74 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:45:05pm |
re: #72 Alouette
I'm at a Quality Inn in Clarion, PA. The same QI that we stayed at on the way in. It started snowing on the 80 and I don't like to drive in the dark.
We'll be home by tomorrow.
Coolio, I saw the weather radar, oooh.
75 | PhillyPretzel Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:45:16pm |
re: #72 Alouette
Since it is snowing it is a good thing to take a break. Have a safe trip home.
76 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:46:00pm |
re: #72 Alouette
I'm at a Quality Inn in Clarion, PA
What a coincidence
I'm at a Clarion Inn in Quality, Pa.
//
78 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:46:55pm |
re: #71 Gus 802
Yeah. Eventually I knew I'd see the usual boiler plate response about the CEO not being involved in editorial decisions. To which I would say "no kidding Arianna." Basically we have a revenue driven website where the majority of the profits will eventually go to "Romney supporting" Timothy Armgstrong. It's rather awkward especially for such a politically driven organization and from the response I've seen on Twitter it raised quite a few eyebrows.
I recently started reading through some articles on ethics in journalism and how things have changed, so this was an especially timely example of what I've been learning about. I hope to post a Page on it soon.
79 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:47:31pm |
re: #73 EmmmieG
I have found one good thing about that calendar:
April 15th falls on a Sunday. We'd always get an extra day.
Yeah ,,but theres a Friday the 13th every three months!!!
80 | Big Joe Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:47:38pm |
Speaking of weather maps. I found an even better Wunderground map.
It has tons of options.
81 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:47:52pm |
re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm waiting for the evil disc's "totally unauthorized" sex tape
And its house is made of giant lego I bet as well.
82 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:51:04pm |
re: #72 Alouette
I'm at a Quality Inn in Clarion, PA. The same QI that we stayed at on the way in. It started snowing on the 80 and I don't like to drive in the dark.
We'll be home by tomorrow.
Stay safe in any case. How much snow on the ground up there?
83 | PhillyPretzel Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:51:06pm |
I have to go to work tomorrow. Good Night to my fellow Lizards.
84 | Obdicut Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:53:27pm |
re: #78 CuriousLurker
Have I already recommended the works of Murray Kempton to you?
A better journalist never lived.
[Link: books.google.com...]
A sober realist but never a cynic.
85 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:53:54pm |
re: #83 PhillyPretzel
I have to go to work tomorrow. Good Night to my fellow Lizards.
Wimp,, I have to go to work tomorrow too
AND ,,, I'm at work now
AND ,, I still have to drive home!!!
//
have a good night
86 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:54:54pm |
I finished my holiday cooking for the house with a pretty yum ending. English sausage rolls with this bitching dijon I got at the Sufi market (oh that was great, too chicken at the meat counter - without a plan) but the frozen yums I got for my lunches this week!
87 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:55:22pm |
re: #86 Stanley Sea
They had lamb tounge. Gotta think!
88 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:55:30pm |
And on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons!!
89 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:57:49pm |
re: #78 CuriousLurker
I recently started reading through some articles on ethics in journalism and how things have changed, so this was an especially timely example of what I've been learning about. I hope to post a Page on it soon.
I've learned a couple of things in the past few days. One, just like everything else, the professional-left has a distinct hierarchy made up of bloggers and websites. Those are difficult to either break into or criticize and expect any noticeable affect. This is made up by an inner-circle of bloggers and correspondents.
Holding that shell together are website like the Huffington Post which are also impenetrable and not easy to shake and with a sever lack of transparency as to who's running those sites. This is important of course because these are ideologically driven organizations and not merely news outlets.
Glenn Greenwald (his status as a progressive in severe question) lives in Brazil in one of the finest sections in town in a 5 million dollar mutli-level home. Arriana Huffington saw a windfall of close to 300 million dollars in her sale of the Huffington Post to AOL/Time Warner. And that site was built by contributors at pennies on the dollar. Going back to Greenwald, Salon Media is a corporation with a Delaware address for tax purposes.
Just some quick thoughts.
90 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:58:42pm |
re: #84 Obdicut
Have I already recommended the works of Murray Kempton to you?
A better journalist never lived.
[Link: books.google.com...]
A sober realist but never a cynic.
Looks like a great book, thanks! I'll put it on my list.
91 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 6:59:58pm |
FYI - iPod in a bowl is a great speaker system.
92 | Obdicut Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:00:13pm |
re: #90 CuriousLurker
Looks like a great book, thanks! I'll put it on my list.
His reporting on the Ali-Liston fight is at once some of the best writing ever committed to a paper, and one of the most naked looks at race politics in the US. He was the master.
He was also a staunch Socialist who was good friends with William Buckley.
95 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:02:07pm |
23. Rick Santorum's stance on abortion is probably the most important issue for his supporters.
Surprisingly, the issue that got the loudest applause was anything about abortion. I was expecting there to be more talk about gay marriage or DOMA or the recalling of the judges in Iowa. But no. There was one mention of people accepting "different types of relationships," people reacted with "ughs."
Well, I guess "ugh" is better than "BURN THEM!!"
96 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:02:40pm |
re: #89 Gus 802
So, Glenn is of the "tax those rich" persuasion?
97 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:03:54pm |
re: #78 CuriousLurker
I recently started reading through some articles on ethics in journalism and how things have changed, so this was an especially timely example of what I've been learning about. I hope to post a Page on it soon.
I'd just say that the period between 1945-1980 was an anomaly. Following the dramatic expansion of media choices and the re-realization that news outfits could be profitable, for-profit news came back to the fore.
98 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:04:02pm |
22. Still, for some people, gay marriage is an important issue.One of the things I'm doing in Iowa is asking people what their definition of the "American Dream" is. Here's one of the responses I got.
Check out the English on the sign. Tea Party qualified.
99 | Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:05:17pm |
re: #74 Stanley Sea
Coolio, I saw the weather radar, oooh.
There was a 20-car pileup in the eastbound lanes. When the snow started, I put my hazard lights on and slowed to 50 mph. I passed one spinout, then another, then another, then a huge backup going in the opposite direction (and rubberneckers in the westbound).
Made it to Clarion in one piece.
Should be clear tomorrow, most of the bad weather has moved south and east.
100 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:05:31pm |
re: #96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
So, Glenn is of the "tax those rich" persuasion?
Not sure. His gig is mostly the drug war, Patriot Act, gay marriage, his new boyfriend, Brazil, etc. Overall it's just the same old narcissistic Greenwald. Michael Moore is and he never answered my question from this afternoon. LOL I didn't expect him to. You know how those Kings and Queens are with us lower forms of life.
102 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:06:59pm |
I guess the ACLU wasn't there to question the Trinitarian symbols being put on public display.
103 | Killgore Trout Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:07:09pm |
re: #93 Gus 802
Short version: there's a hierarchy.
I'm shocked and outraged at ur blasphemy against the leaderless amorphousness of the True Grass Roots people powered activism!
/
104 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:07:41pm |
re: #100 Gus 802
Greenwald's got his paying gig. I see nothing more.
105 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:08:32pm |
re: #100 Gus 802
Short version? There is a hierarchy.
106 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:09:46pm |
re: #89 Gus 802
That's part of what I was reading about—how the news is a commodity now and is driven by profits and lack of transparency. This is true even for public radio in the U.S. now, though to a lesser extent. My concern, and the info I've been looking for, is how do I pick through all the framing, the semantics? How do I judge if something is objective & well balanced? What are the flags I need to look for? I don't mean obvious stuff like screeching hyperbole & overt partisanship, I mean the more subtle stuff.
The info is out there, it's just a matter of digging it up.
108 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:10:19pm |
6. Rick's speeches got more conservative and fanatical the further away we were from civilization. The crowds were also bigger.Northwest Iowa is the most conservative part of the state. I noticed that the further North and West we got, the more conservative his speeches got. There was more talk about terrorists and even a Michelle Obama "doesn't love her country" jab.
Yup, God's Country.
109 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:10:25pm |
re: #103 Killgore Trout
I'm shocked and outraged at ur blasphemy against the leaderless amorphousness of the True Grass Roots people powered activism!
/
Olm! Funny isn't it? I mean. Arianna Huffington made a ton of money divorcing her Republican husband. Years later, she made an even bigger windfall by selling HuffPo to a Republican. Not only that buy Andrew Breitbart helped her start up HuffPo. Her whole life she's lived like a queen thanks to Republicans.
110 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:12:01pm |
re: #94 Gus 802
Cripes...
[Link: twitter.com...]
It worried me for a moment, then I checked the guy's tweets. Nothing dangerous. And 9 is a good age to start teaching a child to shoot. Provided that the teacher is careful and properly supervises and instructs the child, there is no problem.
111 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:12:14pm |
re: #99 Alouette
There was a 20-car pileup in the eastbound lanes. When the snow started, I put my hazard lights on and slowed to 50 mph. I passed one spinout, then another, then another, then a huge backup going in the opposite direction (and rubberneckers in the westbound).
Made it to Clarion in one piece.
Should be clear tomorrow, most of the bad weather has moved south and east.
If that was over near the Susquehanna crossings on I-80 then that's the eastbound construction causing backups. That's been there recently even during good weather. (I drove it last Tuesday in rain and it was in slow down mode even with no active construction.)
112 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:12:21pm |
re: #106 CuriousLurker
Girl I was in journalism school. Auto f for a fact error. I really want to go back and sit in some classes now.
113 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:12:51pm |
114 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:13:01pm |
I love that Buzzfeed article...
4. Coke cans = communist?
In Sioux City this question was asked: "We have so much foreign influence today. I'm looking at a Coke can with a polar bear on it. Where do we go from here?"
115 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:13:06pm |
re: #109 Gus 802
Olm! Funny isn't it? I mean. Arianna Huffington made a ton of money divorcing her Republican husband. Years later, she made an even bigger windfall by selling HuffPo to a Republican. Not only that buy Andrew Breitbart helped her start up HuffPo. it's like her whole life she's lived like a queen thanks to Republicans.
There's one born every millisecond. Thus, people like Ariana, Breitbart, Greenwald, McKinney, et al exist.
116 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:14:16pm |
re: #97 Dark_Falcon
I'd just say that the period between 1945-1980 was an anomaly. Following the dramatic expansion of media choices and the re-realization that news outfits could be profitable, for-profit news came back to the fore.
Interesting. I can't comment on that as the part I'm currently reading about addresses that changes that happened during the Reagan years and through the '90s, with the added changes brought about by digital media & the internet. I don't have a clue what things were like pre-WWII.
117 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:14:23pm |
118 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:15:42pm |
Communist Coke cans... probably brought to you by the same elites that put Mao ornaments on the White House Christmas tree.
119 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:16:06pm |
120 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:17:31pm |
re: #112 Stanley Sea
Girl I was in journalism school. Auto f for a fact error. I really want to go back and sit in some classes now.
Really? Cool, now I know who to go to if I get confused about what I read. ;)
121 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:17:53pm |
re: #115 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
There's one born every millisecond. Thus, people like Ariana, Breitbart, Greenwald, McKinney, et al exist.
Yep. It's like a morality play or the Catholic Church leadership.
122 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:18:00pm |
K, my ending of the holiday is going hard. Major wine, my favorite old songs, Gators won.. I'm filling up before I have to get up @530 tomorrow. Yee to the ha!
123 | Obdicut Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:18:01pm |
re: #116 CuriousLurker
Check out what Hearst and Pulitzer did with the sinking of the Maine. Terrible yellow journalism crap.
124 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:18:07pm |
125 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:18:48pm |
re: #118 freetoken
Communist Coke cans... probably brought to you by the same elites that put Mao ornaments on the White House Christmas tree.
Really? Just the other day I was glancing at Coca-Cola/Redrum/Central America/Unions/Capitalist/Death Squads or something or another.
126 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:18:56pm |
re: #123 Obdicut
Check out what Hearst and Pulitzer did with the sinking of the Maine. Terrible yellow journalism crap.
Noted. Thanks.
127 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:19:36pm |
re: #116 CuriousLurker
Interesting. I can't comment on that as the part I'm currently reading about addresses that changes that happened during the Reagan years and through the '90s, with the added changes brought about by digital media & the internet. I don't have a clue what things were like pre-WWII.
You should check into bandwidth allocation matters from around 1926 to the Communications Act of 1934/creation of the FCC.* Those are really interesting. I have old local newspapers from that era that have listings for stations from Washington to Mexico.
BTW, the game-changer for what we have now was the Telecom Act of 1996.
*Despite the disclaimer, it's a decent link
128 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:19:38pm |
re: #110 Dark_Falcon
It worried me for a moment, then I checked the guy's tweets. Nothing dangerous. And 9 is a good age to start teaching a child to shoot. Provided that the teacher is careful and properly supervises and instructs the child, there is no problem.
No. That's a veiled threat at Alan Colmes. It's not even funny and I flagged it.
129 | jaunte Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:20:53pm |
22. Apparently it's illegal 'immagration' that brings drugs into the U.S.
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]
130 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:21:02pm |
re: #127 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Thanks!
131 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:21:43pm |
It should be noted that not all Iowans are like that. It is a "purple" state, pretty evenly divided between arch conservative tea partying Republicans and FDR Democrats. One Senator from each camp, and the Representatives are often evenly split, and even their state legislature is often 50/50 mix.
132 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:21:47pm |
re: #110 Dark_Falcon
It worried me for a moment, then I checked the guy's tweets. Nothing dangerous. And 9 is a good age to start teaching a child to shoot. Provided that the teacher is careful and properly supervises and instructs the child, there is no problem.
You don't see anything wrong with using a photo of Alan Colmes as a target for a 9-year old girl to shoot at?
Really?
133 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:21:57pm |
re: #129 jaunte
Well it sure ain't Santy Claws!
/
134 | ProGunLiberal Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:22:02pm |
re: #123 Obdicut
Although, to be fair, investigations have shown that could have been either a mine or an accident. I remember particularly an investigation by National Geographic that appeared in an issue some years ago.
Still, they did jump things more than they needed to be.
Back during the Big Three, I liked Jennings (I was 15 when he died). Followed by Brokaw, and I never heard Rather. I think it was the voice for me.
135 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:23:07pm |
Not a single bud in my xmas stocking, the cheap bastard.
136 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:23:25pm |
re: #114 freetoken
I love that Buzzfeed article...
Polar Bears are native to Alaska, for sobbing out loud! How is that morons like that get to vote?
/ticked off.
137 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:23:32pm |
re: #129 jaunte
22. Apparently it's illegal 'immagration' that brings drugs into the U.S.
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]
As opposed to hopped up white trash boiling meth in trailer parks
138 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:24:39pm |
re: #132 Charles
You don't see anything wrong with using a photo of Alan Colmes as a target for a 9-year old girl to shoot at?
Really?
Pfft, eggs/omelets.
139 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:25:01pm |
re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
As opposed to hopped up white trash boiling meth in trailer parks
I thought it was C-141 Starlifters C-17 Globemasters?
//
140 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:25:01pm |
re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Don't be silly, that's not where I cook.
/
Actually, when meth was at it purest, it was being made by a Mexican cartel.
141 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:26:24pm |
re: #140 Slumbering Behemoth
Don't be silly, that's not where I cook.
/Actually, when meth was at it purest, it was being made by a Mexican cartel.
So much for "Made in America"
142 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:26:57pm |
re: #140 Slumbering Behemoth
Don't be silly, that's not where I cook.
/Actually, when meth was at it purest, it was being made by a Mexican cartel.
And you know this how?
143 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:27:02pm |
re: #132 Charles
You don't see anything wrong with using a photo of Alan Colmes as a target for a 9-year old girl to shoot at?
Really?
Libs! Low life libs.
144 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:27:24pm |
145 | Killgore Trout Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:27:48pm |
no rain
146 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:28:05pm |
re: #140 Slumbering Behemoth
Don't be silly, that's not where I cook.
/Actually, when meth was at it purest, it was being made by a Mexican cartel.
Yesterday my son was telling me about something called "back dust" that one of his old friends here in Jersey got hooked on (and which totally destroyed the nice little life & family he'd built up). I'd never heard of it before. As a matter of fact, I'm still not clear on exactly what it is, something to do with formaldehyde or something, IIRC. Ugh, that can't be good for you.
147 | Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:28:32pm |
re: #4 Charles
Wow, we've had almost 1500 clicks on the Twitter link for Gus's post on the HuffPo CEO's donations to the Romney campaign:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
You never know which story's going to suddenly take off. This one obviously hit a nerve with HuffPo's recent turn toward Obama-bashing.
WOOT!
Happy New Year, Charles, Gus & all Lizards!
148 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:28:42pm |
re: #132 Charles
You don't see anything wrong with using a photo of Alan Colmes as a target for a 9-year old girl to shoot at?
Really?
I didn't see a photo of Colmes being used as a target. Maybe I missed something, let me check.
149 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:29:00pm |
re: #147 Floral Giraffe
Happy New Year, FG. ;-)
150 | Kronocide Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:29:11pm |
re: #132 Charles
You don't see anything wrong with using a photo of Alan Colmes as a target for a 9-year old girl to shoot at?
Really?
Reagan might be a problem, but Colmes? Just funnin around LOL ha ha.
151 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:29:30pm |
And the funny thing is, the periods when this cartel was flooding the states with tons of the purest shit the US has ever seen (various times between 1990 into the 2000's), I was on it.
152 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:30:13pm |
re: #132 Charles
re: #148 Dark_Falcon
When I open that page I get a picture of a young girl with an automatic raised and pointed, but the "target" is apparently out of frame. It looked wrong relative to the written statement (which sure seemed to reference the target), so I tried clicking to see if the picture expanded...couldn't get it to. Apparently I gotta tinker with my script blocker.
153 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:30:17pm |
Anyone remember The Style Council? My ever Changing moods?
154 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:30:46pm |
re: #148 Dark_Falcon
I didn't see a photo of Colmes being used as a target. Maybe I missed something, let me check.
It reads "my 9yearoldgranddaughter will use a new practice target @alancolmes." It's addressed to Malkin who's always feuding with Colmes. It literally reads, "My 9 year old grand daughter will use a new practice target, Alan Colmes."
155 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:31:08pm |
re: #146 CuriousLurker
Sounds like that might be a variation on "Angle Dust".
156 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:31:37pm |
re: #146 CuriousLurker
Yesterday my son was telling me about something called "back dust" that one of his old friends here in Jersey got hooked on (and which totally destroyed the nice little life & family he'd built up). I'd never heard of it before. As a matter of fact, I'm still not clear on exactly what it is, something to do with formaldehyde or something, IIRC. Ugh, that can't be good for you.
If meth could ever get shittier, it's black meth prob.
157 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:31:41pm |
re: #152 The Ghost of a Flea
re: #148 Dark_Falcon
When I open that page I get a picture of a young girl with an automatic raised and pointed, but the "target" is apparently out of frame. It looked wrong relative to the written statement (which sure seemed to reference the target), so I tried clicking to see if the picture expanded...couldn't get it to. Apparently I gotta tinker with my script blocker.
If you read carefully, he's threatening to use that picture of Alan Colmes as a target.
158 | jaunte Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:32:20pm |
Nicholas Carr on e-books, and the new impermanence of text:
Books That Are Never Done Being Written
...as is often the case with digitization, the boon carries a bane. The ability to alter the contents of a book will be easy to abuse. School boards may come to exert even greater influence over what students read. They'll be able to edit textbooks that don't fit with local biases. Authoritarian governments will be able to tweak books to suit their political interests. And the edits can ripple backward. Because e-readers connect to the Internet, the works they contain can be revised remotely, just as software programs are updated today. Movable text makes a lousy preservative.
159 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:32:22pm |
160 | Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:32:35pm |
There's a Hoopster in the house!
And a Gus & A Jaunte& A Stanley!
*smoochies to all*
Sings off key..
and a happy new year!
161 | reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:33:15pm |
re: #110 Dark_Falcon
It worried me for a moment, then I checked the guy's tweets. Nothing dangerous. And 9 is a good age to start teaching a child to shoot. Provided that the teacher is careful and properly supervises and instructs the child, there is no problem.
I learned to shoot at about that age.
But we never, ever ever used a target that was a photo of any person.
Ever.
We wouldn't have even thought to do something like that.
And if we had, we'd have gotten hell from the parents.
162 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:33:59pm |
re: #128 Gus 802
No. That's a veiled threat at Alan Colmes. It's not even funny and I flagged it.
Is that what the '@alancolmes' was supposed to mean?
163 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:34:08pm |
re: #161 reine.de.tout
Even if not a direct threat, it's in very poor taste.
164 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:34:56pm |
re: #162 Dark_Falcon
Is that what the '@alancolmes' was supposed to mean?
That the Twitter addy. So basically his name.
165 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:34:56pm |
re: #158 jaunte
That's similar to the problem with digital imaging.
166 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:35:02pm |
re: #110 Dark_Falcon
It worried me for a moment, then I checked the guy's tweets. Nothing dangerous. And 9 is a good age to start teaching a child to shoot. Provided that the teacher is careful and properly supervises and instructs the child, there is no problem.
I'm guessing the objection is that the girl is apparently being given pictures of Alan Colmes to be used as targets. Obviously, there's no danger that this in and of itself is going to turn the girl into a social liability, but in my opinion it is rather distasteful.
Recreational shooting when I was a wee lad was always something that was fun and exciting, but never frivolous. I think if I had asked to shoot at pictures of people, my dad would have asked me why I wanted to do that, and when I was unable to come up with an answer that didn't sound like something out of Beavis & Butthead (huhuh that would be cool huhuhhuhhhuh) he would give me the look of disapproval ಠ_ಠ and that would be the end of that.
167 | ProGunLiberal Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:35:37pm |
re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
This sentence disturbed me very much.
"Diversity creates conflict. We can't celebrate diversity it because it creates conflict."
Santorum said that. That sounds like Breivik.
Considering the fact that, during the first 48 hours of the year, we had 3 Mosques, a Hindu Temple, and an abortion clinic firebombed, that we will have a hell of a year. I stand by my prediction of a major right wing terror attack occurring during the year, either OKC or Utoya style.
Could directed at the Government at large, groupings of Democrats, or Muslims. This year will be ugly.
168 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:35:59pm |
re: #156 Stanley Sea
If meth could ever get shittier, it's black meth prob.
That's Kingsford you're snorting, dear. Put down the straw.
/
169 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:36:42pm |
We had a shooting this new years, in the sweet elite Coronado. Military aviators and their sister. 4 dead. Guns alcohol targets not needed, but wtf gun owners! Make it bettah
170 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:36:49pm |
re: #157 EmmmieG
If you read carefully, he's threatening to use that picture of Alan Colmes as a target.
OOOHHH. I'm not used to Twitter. I thought the @alancolmes at the end was some kind of forwarding tag....
171 | CuriousLurker Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:37:21pm |
Well, I've got some work-related tweets to make, so I'm outta here. Thanks again for all the tips.
Later, Lizards. *waves @ reine on the way out*
172 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:37:39pm |
re: #154 Gus 802
It reads "my 9yearoldgranddaughter will use a new practice target @alancolmes." It's addressed to Malkin who's always feuding with Colmes. It literally reads, "My 9 year old grand daughter will use a new practice target, Alan Colmes."
Well, it makes more sense now that you explain it. I didn't know those two were feuding, since I don't pay attention to either of them. Hence I didn't see any problem till you pointed it out.
173 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:38:23pm |
re: #171 CuriousLurker
Later, Lizards. *waves @ reine on the way out*
Hey! You're supposed to use all five fingers.
/
174 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:39:04pm |
Also, frankly, why is she shooting with another house that close?
Not a good idea. Shooting should be done way out in the woods, with a cliff for a backdrop, or at a range, indoor or outdoor.
Or, obviously, in extremity, wherever you must defend yourself.
175 | Digital Display Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:40:24pm |
Stanford and Oklahoma State are tied at 21 at Halftime..
Luck is going to really look good in a Colts Uniform next year..
176 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:40:51pm |
re: #160 Floral Giraffe
There's a Hoopster in the house!
And a Gus & A Jaunte& A Stanley!
*smoochies to all*
Sings off key..
and a happy new year!
'Ello.
177 | Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:42:16pm |
re: #176 Gus 802
May your New Year be blessed.
178 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:42:23pm |
That's how the right wing is reacting to Colmes's appearance on Fox today, in which he brought up the factual history of Rick Santorum's bizarre handling of his dead baby.
Rick Santorum really did do this.
In his Senate office, on a shelf next to an autographed baseball, Sen. Rick Santorum keeps a framed photo of his son Gabriel Michael, the fourth of his seven children. Named for two archangels, Gabriel Michael was born prematurely, at 20 weeks, on Oct. 11, 1996, and lived two hours outside the womb.
Upon their son's death, Rick and Karen Santorum opted not to bring his body to a funeral home. Instead, they bundled him in a blanket and drove him to Karen's parents' home in Pittsburgh. There, they spent several hours kissing and cuddling Gabriel with his three siblings, ages 6, 4 and 1 1/2. They took photos, sang lullabies in his ear and held a private Mass.
Maybe some people think this is normal, acceptable behavior.
179 | reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:42:35pm |
re: #174 EmmmieG
Also, frankly, why is she shooting with another house that close?
Not a good idea. Shooting should be done way out in the woods, with a cliff for a backdrop, or at a range, indoor or outdoor.
Or, obviously, in extremity, wherever you must defend yourself.
You're right. We had to go wayyyyy out of town to shoot. There was a place that was set up for target shooting. NEVER shot a gun near the house (or any house).
180 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:42:57pm |
re: #177 Floral Giraffe
May your New Year be blessed.
Thanks. ;) May yours be healthy and prosperous.
181 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:44:10pm |
re: #170 The Ghost of a Flea
OOOHHH. I'm not used to Twitter. I thought the @alancolmes at the end was some kind of forwarding tag...
Ditto.
183 | reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:45:02pm |
re: #163 Slumbering Behemoth
Even if not a direct threat, it's in very poor taste.
Worse than poor taste; it's just wrong. You just do NOT teach kids to make a target of any specific person you (or they) happen to disagree with or not like for whatever reason. Just wrong.
184 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:48:47pm |
re: #178 Charles
That's how the right wing is reacting to Colmes's appearance on Fox today, in which he brought up the factual history of Rick Santorum's bizarre handling of his dead baby.
Rick Santorum really did do this.
Maybe some people think this is normal, acceptable behavior.
Well, I can see how people could think Colmes was being an asshole*. How the Santorum family dealt with their loss really isn't the rest of the country's business, unless they had hurt someone (and they didn't).
*: That doesn't justify threats, of course, oblique or otherwise.
185 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:49:11pm |
186 | prairiefire Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:49:42pm |
A guy is tweeting about WW2 in real time:[Link: twitter.com...]
187 | jaunte Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:51:44pm |
re: #184 Dark_Falcon
Santorum would not be getting the kind of personal criticisms he gets if he was not so interested in using the law to interfere with other people and their private choices.
188 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:51:54pm |
re: #184 Dark_Falcon
Well, I can see how people could think Colmes was being an asshole*. How the Santorum family dealt with their loss really isn't the rest of the country's business, unless they had hurt someone (and they didn't).
*: That doesn't justify threats, of course, oblique or otherwise.
If Rick Santorum's ideology takes power, he'll do incalculable damage to the social progress of America. It's everyone's business when a guy running for President is a deranged obsessive fanatic.
189 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:52:32pm |
re: #178 Charles
That's how the right wing is reacting to Colmes's appearance on Fox today, in which he brought up the factual history of Rick Santorum's bizarre handling of his dead baby.
Rick Santorum really did do this.
Maybe some people think this is normal, acceptable behavior.
I submit this not all with the intent of making a joke.
[Link: www.mpi.nl...]
190 | Obdicut Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:53:12pm |
re: #184 Dark_Falcon
Except he talks about it. It's not a private story. It's something he tells people. So he's got to expect people are gonna react to the story.
191 | Obdicut Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:55:25pm |
Let me put it this way: I think forcing your children to confront the corpse of a dead premature baby is wrong, and could really screw them up.
I'm all for kids confronting death, but that's just beyond the pale to me.
192 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:57:03pm |
re: #188 Charles
If Rick Santorum's ideology takes power, he'll do incalculable damage to the social progress of America. It's everyone's business when a guy running for President is a deranged obsessive fanatic.
I cannot understand how you can call the man 'deranged'. Granted, he holds very different social views than you, but he doesn't act like a hater, nor did legislate like one as a Senator. I do not see the anger or manic behavior of a deranged person in Rick Santorum.
193 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 7:58:57pm |
re: #192 Dark_Falcon
Rick Santorum, and I quote:
"Every society in the history of man has upheld the institution of marriage as a bond between a man and a woman.... In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing. And when you destroy that you have a dramatic impact on the quality".
That's deranged.
195 | Obdicut Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:00:10pm |
re: #192 Dark_Falcon
Yes, he is a hater. He hates on homosexuals, for example, all the time.
Comparing homosexuals to child molesters is terrible, heinous, and hateful.
196 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:00:27pm |
re: #191 Obdicut
And that's just the stuff Rick is open about.
197 | jaunte Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:00:50pm |
Rick Santorum:
“In this case, what we’re talking about, basically, is priests who were having sexual relations with post-pubescent men. We’re not talking about priests with 3-year-olds, or 5-year-olds. We’re talking about a basic homosexual relationship.” (On the Catholic Church’s international pedophile priests scandal, in which, for decades, priests have sexually assaulted, molested, and raped young boys and girls.)
That's deranged, too.
198 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:02:22pm |
re: #192 Dark_Falcon
Santorum is also a creationist, a global warming denier, and wants doctors who perform abortions to be charged as criminals.
And just today, he said he wants all existing gay marriages to be dissolved, as soon as he gets into power.
Yes, deranged is exactly the right word for Rick Santorum.
199 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:04:05pm |
re: #192 Dark_Falcon
I cannot understand how you can call the man 'deranged'. Granted, he holds very different social views than you, but he doesn't act like a hater, nor did legislate like one as a Senator. I do not see the anger or manic behavior of a deranged person in Rick Santorum.
You see nothing "deranged" about the stated intent to second-class entire swaths of citizens (again).
How utterly typical.
And deranged.
200 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:04:21pm |
My Tweet:
@Gus_802 Gus
@cabbyjeff There's nothing "Christian" about making a veiled death threat to @AlanColmes #p2 #p21 #tlot @michellemalkin @CSPDPIO
201 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:04:54pm |
Santorum also wants to round up and deport millions of undocumented immigrants, whether they have families in America or not.
And he explicitly denies that the founding fathers intended church and state to be separate.
That's what you support, DF.
202 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:05:32pm |
re: #201 Charles
Santorum also wants to round up and deport millions of undocumented immigrants, whether they have families in America or not.
And he explicitly denies that the founding fathers intended church and state to be separate.
That's what you support, DF.
Put it on the ballot, and he will vote for it.
203 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:06:38pm |
re: #193 Charles
"the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality"
Except in ancient China and Europe.
Of course they hide that kind of information in books.
204 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:06:43pm |
re: #201 Charles
Santorum also wants to round up and deport millions of undocumented immigrants, whether they have families in America or not.
Fuck it. I was getting tired of eating food anyway.
///
205 | sagehen Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:07:29pm |
re: #19 abolitionist
Proposed New Calendar Would Make Time Rational
This will probably catch on sooner than my idea for monetary denominations that follow the golden ratio.
I think it's a crappy idea -- everybody should get to have their birthday be on a weekend sometimes (so the hangover won't fuck up a workday) and midweek sometimes (so the office can have cake).
the Jewish calendar's regular months come up short every year, so there's leap months something like 5 years out of every 17; the extra month's name translates as You're Doing February Twice This Year. It sucks.
206 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:08:21pm |
re: #178 Charles
That's how the right wing is reacting to Colmes's appearance on Fox today, in which he brought up the factual history of Rick Santorum's bizarre handling of his dead baby.
Rick Santorum really did do this.
Maybe some people think this is normal, acceptable behavior.
Yay, pro-life.
e_e
207 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:09:43pm |
re: #193 Charles
Rick Santorum, and I quote:
That's deranged.
It's also inaccurate. He implies that "marriage" has always existed as a defined instrument, but his concept of marriage is a pretty late introduction in human society, following upon the establishment of laws and states in Europe.
And, monogamy would appear to be a bit of a late comer. Polygamy has been widely practiced.
208 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:11:00pm |
re: #201 Charles
Santorum also wants to round up and deport millions of undocumented immigrants, whether they have families in America or not.
And he explicitly denies that the founding fathers intended church and state to be separate.
That's what you support, DF.
I didn't say I was supporting him. I said he was 'not deranged'. It's possible to think someone isn't crazy while not supporting them.
209 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:11:56pm |
re: #201 Charles
Santorum also wants to round up and deport millions of undocumented immigrants, whether they have families in America or not.
On a serious tip, though, those kids end up in the system, in foster homes and so on. That's not only a super fucked up way for those kids to live, but that also cost tax dollars.
210 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:12:05pm |
If dark is our baremetor of republican voting - that they are behind the frothy mess is, what else than a frothy mess of the GOP.
211 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:12:31pm |
Also, i try not to throw around terms like 'deranged'. I find they overheat the conversation and I become agitated as a result.
212 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:13:25pm |
re: #208 Dark_Falcon
I said he was 'not deranged'.
I know. And you're talking about one of the most deranged candidates in a thoroughly deranged group.
213 | prairiefire Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:14:20pm |
Santorum is a true believer ideologue, but very, very fringe. And I don't mean bangs.
214 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:15:14pm |
re: #193 Charles
Rick Santorum, and I quote:
That's deranged.
I think it's more "stupid" than "deranged". Citing "every society in the history of man" as some sort of respectable authority on human pair-bond relationships is laughable at best. In some societies, families still marry off their daughters in exchange for livestock, coin, and/or a fixed amount of manual labor.
Also, Deuteronomy chapter 22.
215 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:15:34pm |
re: #208 Dark_Falcon
I didn't say I was supporting him. I said he was 'not deranged'. It's possible to think someone isn't crazy while not supporting them.
If he's on the ballot, you will vote for him, why pretend.
216 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:16:34pm |
re: #209 Slumbering Behemoth
On a serious tip, though, those kids end up in the system, in foster homes and so on. That's not only a super fucked up way for those kids to live, but that also cost tax dollars.
Great way to drum up business for the "prolife" adoption mill, though.
217 | sagehen Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:18:22pm |
re: #95 freetoken
23. Rick Santorum's stance on abortion is probably the most important issue for his supporters.
Well, I guess "ugh" is better than "BURN THEM!!"
Interestingly enough, Rich Santorum's stance on abortion is also a very important for his detractors.
218 | SpaceJesus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:18:40pm |
santorum is crazier than a shit house rat
*watches DF's agitation meter release steam then explode*
219 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:18:41pm |
re: #216 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Ugh. Never thought I'd agree with Newt Gingrich about something.
220 | William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:18:41pm |
re: #123 Obdicut
Agreed. But as a side note, please remember that the Pulitzer Prizes are his explicit Act Of Contrition for that phase of yellow journalism.
221 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:21:50pm |
I actually first became aware of Santorum when he injected himself into the Terri Schiavo case to boost his credibility with the fringe religious right. This guy is the very definition of a deranged fanatic.
222 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:21:55pm |
re: #218 SpaceJesus
santorum is crazier than a shit house rat
*watches DF's agitation meter release steam then explode*
You think you're funny, but you're not.
223 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:22:56pm |
re: #200 Gus 802
My Tweet:
@Gus_802 Gus
@cabbyjeff There's nothing "Christian" about making a veiled death threat to @AlanColmes #p2 #p21 #tlot @michellemalkin @CSPDPIO
Hey now...it's important that nine-year-olds learn that it's their responsibility to lash out at the people their elders dislike.
225 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:23:09pm |
re: #221 Charles
Rick the Ghoul. Fuck 'em.
226 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:23:38pm |
In case anyone cares, I'm still planning to vote for mitt Romney in the primary. Santorum is too socially conservative for my preference, and does not have nearly as good a chance to win.
227 | jaunte Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:24:07pm |
Rick Santorum is also worried about creeping Sharia:
“The creeping Sharia throughout Europe and here in this country and in Canada. The Islamization of Europe that is already on the way and will visit these shores not too soon is a concern for us and something that we need to identify and we need to talk about and we need to fight with every ounce of our being“
228 | Kronocide Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:25:01pm |
I know you don't like the term deranged. How about nucking futz.
More pedestrian with more aplomb.
230 | wilburs Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:27:26pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
In case anyone cares, I'm still planning to vote for mitt Romney in the primary. Santorum is too socially conservative for my preference, and does not have nearly as good a chance to win.
Which Mitt are you voting for?
231 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:27:34pm |
re: #229 Gus 802
That can't be the real RM.
235 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:28:39pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
In case anyone cares, I'm still planning to vote for mitt Romney in the primary. Santorum is too socially conservative for my preference, and does not have nearly as good a chance to win.
Ya know whats interesting is mitt v John McCain. I would think the Vietnam torture survivor would be more?
236 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:29:15pm |
re: #221 Charles
Incidentally, and I know I've mention this before, but that was the moment that what sympathy I shared with the RTL movement went up in smoke. Poof.
237 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:29:29pm |
re: #229 Gus 802
Fail!
[Link: twitter.com...]
Note he just says a big vision, not that the vision is actually sane.
239 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:30:33pm |
re: #237 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Note he just says a big vision, not that the vision is actually sane.
Is he even an American citizen? Seriously, freaking Fox News. It's the PressTV of the USA.
240 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:30:43pm |
re: #236 Slumbering Behemoth
Incidentally, and I know I've mention this before, but that was the moment that what sympathy I shared with the RTL movement went up in smoke. Poof.
It was a huge eye-opener for me too. Like seeing the Salem witch trials come to life in the 20th century.
241 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:31:20pm |
re: #232 Gus 802
Yeah that's him.
True. He just joined Twitter recently. He has said through other means that the account Gus linked to is in fact him.
242 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:31:33pm |
re: #232 Gus 802
The dude is a billionaire, I just can't picture him wasting time on twitter.
If I had that kind of money, the only tweets you'd see regarding me would be from high priced call girls complaining about a wealthy perv.
/
243 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:32:03pm |
Meanwhile, Pamela Geller says Muslims firebombed their own mosque in Queens:
[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]
244 | wilburs Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:32:29pm |
re: #240 Charles
It was a huge eye-opener for me too. Like seeing the Salem witch trials come to life in the 20th century.
It certainly did wonders for Bill Frist.
245 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:32:30pm |
re: #238 BigPapa
Yes.
GOP GOP just like I'm a Gator till I die.
Sorry it's our future. I'm for my fucking team. Trees will burn!
246 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:32:54pm |
re: #243 Charles
Fatlse Flarg!
248 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:35:27pm |
re: #243 Charles
Meanwhile, Pamela Geller says Muslims firebombed their own mosque in Queens:
[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]
The woman is possessed by djinngin.
249 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:36:46pm |
re: #246 Slumbering Behemoth
It helps to have some booze in ya.
250 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:38:37pm |
re: #242 Slumbering Behemoth
The dude is a billionaire, I just can't picture him wasting time on twitter.
If I had that kind of money, the only tweets you'd see regarding me would be from high priced call girls complaining about a wealthy perv.
/
Are you still winning, Charlie?
///
251 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:39:39pm |
252 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:39:51pm |
re: #243 Charles
Meanwhile, Pamela Geller says Muslims firebombed their own mosque in Queens:
[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]
No way I'm looking, but how fucking pitiful. This is prob remnicsant eh? She's so fucking clueless in her hate.
253 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:40:46pm |
re: #250 Dark_Falcon
Tiger Blood, bitches! TIGER BLOOD!!!
254 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:40:54pm |
re: #243 Charles
Meanwhile, Pamela Geller says Muslims firebombed their own mosque in Queens:
[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]
Making Muslims the villains is all she knows how to do. She thinks that Islam is pure evil and hence nothing Islam has a right to exist.
255 | Kronocide Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:42:03pm |
Pam needs those Muslims. It gives her purpose. It give her power.
256 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:43:19pm |
Seriously. Murdoch is going to Tweet some feeble endorsement of the puritanical, pompous-prig Santorum and then turn around and make millions off of Family Guy and American Dad? WTF. Talk about a double standard. What a fraud.
257 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:44:50pm |
re: #256 Gus 802
Non-Citizen billionaire should STFU.
258 | Kronocide Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:46:20pm |
Murdoch looks more and more like the old guy from Shit My Dad Says.
259 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:46:30pm |
Murdoch endorses Santroum then turns around and makes millions from "Family Guy" where you can see someone play a sax. out of her vagina.
261 | wilburs Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:50:09pm |
262 | jaunte Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:50:19pm |
"Only candidate with genuine big vision for country."
“I reject that number completely, that people die in America because of lack of health insurance. People die in America because people die in America. And people make poor decisions with respect to their health and their healthcare. And they don’t go to the emergency room or they don’t go to the doctor when they need to.”
[Link: www.rawstory.com...]
263 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:51:19pm |
re: #257 Slumbering Behemoth
Not that I have a problem with billionaires. I don't.
But I do have a problem with non-citizens making billions by (and while) manipulating public opinion here in the States, and influencing our political discourse.
264 | wilburs Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:51:41pm |
265 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:53:45pm |
re: #256 Gus 802
Seriously. Murdoch is going to Tweet some feeble endorsement of the puritanical, pompous-prig Santorum and then turn around and make millions off of Family Guy and American Dad? WTF. Talk about a double standard. What a fraud.
Yep, it's a(nother) conservative opportunist.
266 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:55:39pm |
267 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:55:50pm |
268 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:56:16pm |
re: #263 Slumbering Behemoth
Not that I have a problem with billionaires. I don't.
But I do have a problem with non-citizens making billions by (and while) manipulating public opinion here in the States, and influencing our political discourse.
If it makes you feel better he does it all over the world.
269 | Interesting Times Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:56:49pm |
re: #258 BigPapa
Murdoch looks more and more like the old guy from Shit My Dad Says.
Without the latter's wisdom and intrinsic worth to society :P (but seriously, that's one hideous and unflattering profile pic - no wonder people thought the account was fake)
270 | William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:57:25pm |
271 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:59:41pm |
Derping without a license. I'm pulling my own card.
272 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:59:42pm |
Great game this burrito bowl, or whatever the fuck its called.
273 | wilburs Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:01:28pm |
re: #271 Slumbering Behemoth
Derping without a license. I'm pulling my own card.
He's not a "natural born" citizen" though.....you're still alive on a technicality.
274 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:02:27pm |
re: #271 Slumbering Behemoth
Derping without a license. I'm pulling my own card.
You can always do what wingnuts do all the time. If he has a foreign accent he's still a "foreigner" even if he's an American citizen.
//
275 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:04:53pm |
re: #7 negativ
It is still used all the time in contracts. It will often say "the remainder of this page left blank." when there is a partial page.
276 | Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:05:36pm |
Just came across a doosey of a website - thanks to Judith Curry:
[Link: catholibertarian.com...]
Yikes!
Here's a nice excerpt from one of the posts:
Pastor Steven Andrew who is President of USA Christian Ministries and author of “Making A Strong Christian Nation” has stated that “voting for Bachmann or Santorum is saying ‘yes’ to God and ‘no’ to the devil.”
277 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:06:43pm |
re: #275 Petero1818
It is still used all the time in contracts. It will often say "the remainder of this page left blank." when there is a partial page.
Prevents people from filling stuff in once your signature is on the page.
279 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:09:32pm |
Michele Bachmann meets media — and voters — at Valley Junction
When prompted by a reporter’s question, she called out every one of her Republican rivals by name, and offered a rationale for why they couldn’t or shouldn’t be trusted with the party’s nomination. Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich are tainted by records of support for an individual mandate to purchase health insurance, she said. Rick Perry has a history of “crony capitalism.” Ron Paul is wrong on national defense.
To knock Rick Santorum — a fellow social conservative whom Bachmann has criticized very little but who has surged in late-race polling — she referenced his 2004 endorsement of Arlen Specter, a moderate Republican who later switched parties to become a Democrat. She also accused him of supporting earmarks, spending projects secured by lawmakers to benefit their home districts.
OMG, imagine a Republican in a state actually endorsing another Republican!
If that is the worst she can come up with in criticizing Santorum then no wonder he's stealing her support.
280 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:11:00pm |
281 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:12:02pm |
re: #279 freetoken
Michele Bachmann meets media — and voters — at Valley Junction
OMG, imagine a Republican in a state actually endorsing another Republican!
If that is the worst she can come up with in criticizing Santorum then no wonder he's stealing her support.
The nice thing is after Wednesday we will not have listen to her insanity anymore. She will quietly return to actually doing her job, and of course hating gay people.
282 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:13:36pm |
re: #281 Petero1818
The nice thing is after Wednesday we will not have listen to her insanity anymore. She will quietly return to actually doing her job, and of course hating gay people.
Oh, I expect that she'll be a semi-permanent presence on Fox News, spouting all sorts of idiocy.
283 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:16:00pm |
re: #282 freetoken
Oh, I expect that she'll be a semi-permanent presence on Fox News, spouting all sorts of idiocy.
She should get her own show on the history channel, they need some comedy programming.
284 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:16:00pm |
Looks like Andrew Luck just honked a field goal attempt...
(I know Luck isn't Stanford's kicker, but the announcers have been all Luck, Luck, Luck the whole game like he's the whole team on this final drive.)
285 | Talking Point Detective Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:16:09pm |
re: #282 freetoken
Oh, I expect that she'll be a semi-permanent presence on Fox News, spouting all sorts of idiocy.
Or maybe she'll run as an independent? My guess is that she'd get a lot of contributions from the popcorn industry. Sales would go through the roof.
286 | Digital Display Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:17:53pm |
re: #284 oaktree
Looks like Andrew Luck just honked a field goal attempt...
(I know Luck isn't Stanford's kicker, but the announcers have been all Luck, Luck, Luck the whole game like he's the whole team on this final drive.)
He is going to look so good in Colts Blue..
287 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:18:03pm |
re: #284 oaktree
Looks like Andrew Luck just honked a field goal attempt...
(I know Luck isn't Stanford's kicker, but the announcers have been all Luck, Luck, Luck the whole game like he's the whole team on this final drive.)
brutal kick. I agree it has pretty much been an Andrew Luck circle jerk. But a great (college) game.
288 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:18:55pm |
re: #283 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
She should get her own show on the history channel, they need some comedy programming.
Well, she is from Mars.
289 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:19:15pm |
re: #192 Dark_Falcon
I cannot understand how you can call the man 'deranged'. Granted, he holds very different social views than you, but he doesn't act like a hater, nor did legislate like one as a Senator. I do not see the anger or manic behavior of a deranged person in Rick Santorum.
you're a straight white guy, of course you'd say this
if Santorum said the things he's said about LGBT, about Jews instead, you'd lose your marbles over it
But I know we don't count. I know tribalism is more important to you :)
290 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:19:19pm |
re: #286 HoosierHoops
He is going to look so good in a Colts Blue..
I hear Irsay cleaned house in the management area today.
291 | William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:19:51pm |
re: #286 HoosierHoops
He is going to look so good in a Colts Blue..
What was that about a year of eligibility left? I may be misremembering but that would really shock the NFL world...
292 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:20:22pm |
Newt blames "the media" for ... well, just exposing Newt:
Newt Gingrich: I made a mistake in saying I wouldn’t win the Iowa caucuses
Newt Gingrich here tonight told a crowd that he made a mistake in saying earlier today that he wouldn’t win the Iowa caucuses.
He blamed the issue on what he said was a compound sentence structure that the media dissected.
“I made the amateur mistake of having two compound sentences,” Gingrich said to about 100 people who attended an event he hosted at the campaign’s Davenport office. “ I want to explain to my friends in the media and you.”
His full quote today when talking with reporters in Independence:
“I don’t think I’m going to win,” Gingrich told reporters “If you look at the numbers, I think that volume of negativity has done enough damage. On the other hand, if The Des Moines Register is right in its 41 percent potentially undecided, who knows what’s going to happen.”
[...]
Newt's the biggest shuck-n-jive artist in the clown car, and his hubris is only outdone by his BMI.
293 | Digital Display Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:20:59pm |
294 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:21:18pm |
re: #289 WindUpBird
I'm a straight white guy. How does that explain my complete opposition to Santorum and anyone else with an anti-gay agenda?
295 | William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:21:40pm |
re: #290 oaktree
I hear Irsay cleaned house in the management area today.
Bad crazy. Almost has the feel of a recently deceased Oakland owner about it. Owner won't give up on Manning. Staff tries to plan for future. Staff gets fired. Begin death spiral...
296 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:22:03pm |
re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth
I'm a straight white guy. How does that explain my complete opposition to Santorum and anyone else with an anti-gay agenda?
HERETIC!
297 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:22:33pm |
re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth
I'm a straight white guy. How does that explain my complete opposition to Santorum and anyone else with an anti-gay agenda?
Kaboonk! ;)
298 | Digital Display Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:22:38pm |
re: #291 wlewisiii
What was that about a year of eligibility left? I may be misremembering but that would really shock the NFL world...
He is coming out this year...
299 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:23:28pm |
re: #296 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
That's a separate issue.
300 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:23:38pm |
boy I have not seen a choke kicker performance like that since the Bills super bowl years
301 | Digital Display Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:25:46pm |
re: #300 Petero1818
boy I have not seen a choke kicker performance like that since the Bills super bowl years
This is a great game!
302 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:26:44pm |
Michele Wins!!
Coffee Bean Caucus results are in from Iowa City
Whatever happens in the caucuses Tuesday night, Michele Bachmann can claim one more Iowa political victory: the Coffee Bean Caucus from Hamburg Inn in Iowa City.
Bachmann, a Minnesota congresswoman, was the top Republican vote-getter in the informal, bean-based poll at the iconic Iowa City diner, winning 28.8 percent of the GOP vote.
Mitt Romney was second with 21.4 percent, followed by Ron Paul (18.2 percent), Newt Gingrich (13.8 percent), Rick Perry (7.4 percent), Rick Santorum (5.6 percent) and Jon Huntsman (4.6 percent).
In all, 3,970 Republican beans were cast.
But neither Bachmann nor any of the other candidates should celebrate their popularity in famously-liberal Iowa City too much.
Hamburg Inn voters were also given the choice of voting for incumbent Democrat Barack Obama. And they did — 6,442 times. That’s nearly six times the votes cast for Bachmann, who visited the restaurant late last month.
When beans dropped for Obama are included with the Republican tallies, he wins in a landslide with 61.8 percent of the vote. Bachmann is the only other candidate to crack double digits, at 11 percent.
303 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:26:58pm |
304 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:27:42pm |
I must be a closet gay, um... non-white gal?
Man, this election is confusing.
305 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:30:54pm |
Three Occupy protesters arrested at Romney event
Clive police arrested three people affiliated with Occupy Des Moines at a Mitt Romney campaign event Monday evening, bringing the total arrests for the group that day to 15.
According to protester Stephen Toothman, a group of demonstrators were asked to leave before the event at Competitive Edge in Clive began.
Kaylynn Strain, 45, of Des Moines, Daniel Bragg, 33, of Newton, and Leslie Davis, 63, of Marshalltown, were arrested. All three had been arrested earlier in the week at other Occupy-related protests.
Occupy Des Moines members said they had caused no disruption.
“We were just standing there waiting for the event to start when police and staffers just started pulling people out of the crowd that they thought were with Occupy,” Pat Douglass, 41, of Des Moines, said in a press release. “Even people seen talking with people they thought were with Occupy.”
Occupy members also alleged that business representatives or police seemed to target Strain, a Muslim woman who wears a hijab.
Both Clive police and Competitive Edge president David Greenspon adamantly denied those allegations.
Clive Police Sgt. Damon Herzog said protesters were cooperative and officers had no issues.
Several officers were working off-duty at the event. They were also assisted by an on-duty officer.
He said officers removed protesters after they were asked by the business owner.
Greenspon said Competitive Edge asked officers to make sure protesters left, and any arrests would have been the result of demonstrators not complying.
“It was obvious they were there for disruption,” he said. “This is a private company. “It was a nice event, it was orderly. No one was pushed or shoved, they were asked to leave.”
Hey, those were no youngsters arrested.
Oh, and it was a "nice" event. How... nice.
306 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:32:01pm |
How radical of OWS - standing peacefully on private property.
What's next, waiting for the stoplight to turn green to cross the street?
307 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:33:18pm |
re: #306 freetoken
"Please" and "Thank you", cats and dogs living together...
308 | wilburs Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:33:57pm |
re: #302 freetoken
Michele Wins!!
Hamburg Inn voters were also given the choice of voting for incumbent Democrat Barack Obama. And they did — 6,442 times. That’s nearly six times the votes cast for Bachmann, who visited the restaurant late last month.
When beans dropped for Obama are included with the Republican tallies, he wins in a landslide with 61.8 percent of the vote.
Who knew there were that many socialists in Iowa!
309 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:39:24pm |
re: #308 wilburs
Hamburg Inn voters were also given the choice of voting for incumbent Democrat Barack Obama. And they did — 6,442 times. That’s nearly six times the votes cast for Bachmann, who visited the restaurant late last month.
When beans dropped for Obama are included with the Republican tallies, he wins in a landslide with 61.8 percent of the vote.
Who knew there were that many socialists in Iowa!
Just Iowa City and Ames probably for the most part.
Probably getting the idea from Texas. I hear they have a nice liberal reservation for preservation purposes in some place named "Austin".*
* - Might be down there in March/April for a weekend. Will ask about places to potentially go see once plans get finalized.
310 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:42:03pm |
re: #308 wilburs
Hamburg Inn voters were also given the choice of voting for incumbent Democrat Barack Obama. And they did — 6,442 times. That’s nearly six times the votes cast for Bachmann, who visited the restaurant late last month.
When beans dropped for Obama are included with the Republican tallies, he wins in a landslide with 61.8 percent of the vote.
Who knew there were that many socialists in Iowa!
Little known fact/: /farming is for the most part not terribly profitable and heavily subsidized by big government. I wonder if Ron Paul said that the market alone should decide the floor price for corn, how that would go over around those parts.
311 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:47:08pm |
re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth
I'm a straight white guy. How does that explain my complete opposition to Santorum and anyone else with an anti-gay agenda?
I suspect in my case it was early exposure to Victor/Victoria and the realization that the people I knew who were all concerned about teh ghey were, universally, dickheads.
312 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:48:04pm |
re: #311 The Ghost of a Flea
I suspect in my case it was early exposure to Victor/Victoria and the realization that the people I knew who were all concerned about teh ghey were, universally, dickheads.
Interesting. 2 references to Victor /Victoria at LGF today. Bet that is the first time.
313 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:50:08pm |
re: #310 Petero1818
Little known fact/: /farming is for the most part not terribly profitable and heavily subsidized by big government. I wonder if Ron Paul said that the market alone should decide the floor price for corn, how that would go over around those parts.
And some fat ethanol subsidies have gone away as well. Like the $0.45 per gallon tax break. That makes corn-based biofuel a touch less profitable.
314 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:52:13pm |
re: #312 Petero1818
Interesting. 2 references to Victor /Victoria at LGF today. Bet that is the first time.
I barely recall that film, Victor/Victoria.
/Trifecta!
315 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:54:28pm |
re: #305 freetoken
Three Occupy protesters arrested at Romney event
Hey, those were no youngsters arrested.
Oh, and it was a "nice" event. How... nice.
[Link: twitter.com...]
316 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:56:26pm |
re: #314 Slumbering Behemoth
I barely recall that film, Victor/Victoria.
/Trifecta!
Has something to do with where choo-choo go.
(Oh wait. That's the other movie Alex Karras is in.)
;)
317 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:10:23pm |
re: #315 Gus 802
I find the whole thing a bit like packaged white bread.
318 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:14:42pm |
re: #317 freetoken
I find the whole thing a bit like packaged white bread.
This is an interesting read:
Private Danny Chen, and why I will never again reach out to OWS about something that matters to me
But these guys in Des Moines have been trying to disrupt events and businesses in the area for almost a month. I'm sure the police are pretty familiar with them. And as the story you noted, they were no arrested but asked to leave under threat to arrest. Obviously, and from the pictures I've seen, the intent was to disrupt the event. Freedom of speech does not includes physical acts of disruption. Oh and they're disrupting Obama/Dem offices as well. Nothing major but enough. Anyway scan that link above. It's rather embarrassing but is related to your comment here.
319 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:16:15pm |
Bachmann predicts a miracle in Iowa
In the closing hours of what has been a brutal contest, Bachmann and her campaign workers are trying to maintain a positive outlook, vowing to shock the political world with a surging end-game based on the many still-undecided voters in the state.
"Tomorrow night we are going to see a miracle, because we know the one who gives miracles," Bachmann said Monday night at a rally outside her headquarters in Urbandale.
320 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:21:37pm |
re: #317 freetoken
I find the whole thing a bit like packaged white bread.
I'll take "Things That Have Not Been Part of The Behemoth's Diet Since Kindergarten" for 200, Alex.
321 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:23:24pm |
re: #319 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"Tomorrow night we are going to see a miracle, because we know the one who gives miracles," Bachmann said Monday night at a rally outside her headquarters in Urbandale.
Yeah, and I know "the one who gives blowjobs". Doesn't mean I'm gettin' one.
322 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:24:51pm |
And while a lot of people were focused on the Tea Party this has been going on for nearly 3 years:
Obama's Ally on Iran Policy: Pat Buchanan!!11ty
And they're back and this time out in the open. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not going on. It's gotten worse with the NDAA hysteria and misinformation, "the drone" stuff (even though that stopped in Pakistan), etc, etc, etc, etc.
323 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:28:11pm |
re: #321 Slumbering Behemoth
Yeah, and I know "the one who gives blowjobs". Doesn't mean I'm gettin' one.
Could you put in a good word for me anyways, just in case?
324 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:31:42pm |
325 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:37:27pm |
re: #323 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Could you put in a good word for me anyways, just in case?
That all depends. How flexible are you? Like super-yoga flexible? 'Cuz word on the street is...
326 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:38:16pm |
re: #319 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Seriously though. in 1989, she was at a dead show and there was a guy with a sign that said "I need a miracle", like a few minutes later, someone just walked up to him and handed him something, and he was like, "thank god!" and everything. So she talked to that guy who gave him the miracle. His name was Joseph. He apparently gives Miracles. And also he sells kind bud as well.
327 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:44:36pm |
re: #326 Petero1818
1989? What a poser. I was into them before they were cool.
/
328 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:46:17pm |
re: #327 Slumbering Behemoth
1989? What a poser. I was into them before they were cool.
/
Yeah... twas the Touch of Grey years. She only found out about them when they made Billboard.
329 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:48:33pm |
re: #9 EdDantes
Yeah. And that sign, "No dogs allowed except guide dogs." Who is that sign for?
People with non-guide dogs who want to know why THAT guy got to bring his dog in.
330 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:49:52pm |
re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist
That's what the "No Whiny Assholes Allowed" signs are for.
331 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:50:49pm |
I am so glad that Bachmann is a "serious candidate for President" not just some whack job who is counting on a miracle to have a respectable showing in the Iowa caucus. Maybe its just me, but given the apparent rarity of miracles these days, I would be pretty fucking pissed if my god all of a sudden wasted one on Bachmann getting 15% of the votes in the Iowa caucus. I mean seriously, god couldn't have helped Tebow against the Chiefs or something else more important?/
332 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:51:33pm |
re: #318 Gus 802
This is an interesting read:
Private Danny Chen, and why I will never again reach out to OWS about something that matters to me
"OWS protesters often make it seem like they are the birth of social justice activism, that they are here to teach us how to protest because none of us know what the fuck we are doing and need their wealth of experience to help us out. "
This is a really old tale with white radicals, and one of the main reasons I stayed a distant supporter of OWS. Somebody see Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man (1952) for more.
Shameful, disgusting treatment of a deceased person, his memory, and his family. But, sadly, par for the course.
333 | tnguitarist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 10:59:25pm |
re: #319 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Why do they never get called out when these miracles don't happen?
334 | Petero1818 Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:02:58pm |
re: #333 tnguitarist
Why do they never get called out when these miracles don't happen?
Like when she loses bad tomorrow, we can say...so Michelle: Either there is no God, or if there is, he totally doesn't think you are a serious candidate for President.
335 | goddamnedfrank Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:03:10pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
In case anyone cares, I'm still planning to vote for mitt Romney in the primary. Santorum is too socially conservative for my preference, and does not have nearly as good a chance to win.
What changed from when you said this?
His use of footage of Obama wasn't quite as bad as what Grayson did, but it was very bad in my eyes. It'll prevent me from voting for Romney in the primary, since I don't support that sort of dishonesty. Mitt seems to have his eyes too closely focused on the prize, to the exclusion of principles and honesty.
LOL, I don't know why you bother to put up these pretenses of personal integrity, it's not like anybody thought you meant it then. Romney is a lying, untrustworthy piece of shit and you've admitted as much when it looked like you might have had options.
It seemed like it was 'his turn' and he seemed electable. My problem with him has become that he stands for nothing but a desire to be president. In that regard, he's worse than Gingrich, and worse than Obama as well. Both Barack and Newt want to be president because they have things they want to do and they need the presidency to enact them. Romney seems to just want to be president.
Nothing's changed, except now you're out of viable options. Romney is the same protean pile of shifting inconsistency, ruled by the expediency of the moment and utterly devoid of characteristics one might associate with leadership. But that's who you're going to vote for because you're a self admitted slave to the GOP.
336 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:03:49pm |
re: #331 Petero1818
And if it doesn't work out, there will be vague references to "His Plan", or "His Will", and most definitely references to "His Mysterious Ways"*.
*Language Warning [and potentially offensive on many levels]*
337 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:05:40pm |
re: #318 Gus 802
This is America at the end of her wits - recycled politics that are so empty of content - just like bleached white bread, sliced, tasteless, and wrapped in plastic.
The success of the marketing of the image over real functionality throughout our consumerist society has really lulled many people into not appreciating quality. That's as true for food as it is for politics.
OWS comes off as just recycled old hippies who are going back to their old tricks, like Hollywood which comes out with 4th and 6th generation remakes of hits of yesteryear.
Our society is faced with something new: competition over limited resources. Ever since Columbus the Western invading culture has known endless abundance just over the next mountain range.
When in Japan I was struck by how some Japanese view America - not with condemnation, but with the simple statement that "America is a young nation". We think we are old (since we are the oldest standing Republic among the world's states), but culturally we are quite young, and juvenile.
To me what really matters is how I'm going to make it the rest of my life in a society that is going to give me dramatically fewer opportunities as I enter my golden years. I wish I could be more magnanimous and say I care about all the people around me, but I have little to offer them. It seems selfish of me, but when I read about all the events around me - such as that death of Private Danny Chen - I realize that there is little I can do about them. So I am turning inwards more and more, simply because I don't have the resources to put up much of a fight against the self-destructive nihilism that has engulfed too many people.
Not everyone, I realize, are into that self-destruction. But I find so few young people, or old people, who really seem to be finding a path in life that will serve them well. As I walk around town I see all sorts of people hanging on - the old worn out autos driven far beyond their safe lifetime, or the young guy sleeping on the sidewalk at the gas station tonight who tried to ask me for some money before I quickly walked on by to the grocery store.
I fault our leaders, especially President Obama, not for being imperfect but for missing out on the biggest battles, MIA in the fight to help our nation transition from it's juvenility into something more mature that can withstand the competition of the 21st century.
MIA - that's my judgement against our leaders, elected and private (the wealthy and powerful).
338 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:05:53pm |
339 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:10:10pm |
re: #337 freetoken
Just great. All the dick jokes I had in the hopper are now going down the toilet. Way to wreck the mood, FT.
/
340 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:10:22pm |
re: #334 Petero1818
Like when she loses bad tomorrow, we can say...so Michelle: Either there is no God, or if there is, he totally doesn't think you are a serious candidate for President.
At that point it will be the media's fault for not treating her campaign seriously.
341 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:14:28pm |
342 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:15:15pm |
Bachmann's sole hope is that God ignores every athlete in the US tomorrow.
"I would have made the catch but Jesus told me he had to go help Michelle Bachmann."
343 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:16:41pm |
re: #341 SanFranciscoZionist
It took me a second. The picture itself is fine, and then you see the odd breakup of the @s.
Yeah. And you have to also read where Alan says "lovely" in the beginning. That's always a hint that something has gone wrong. Rather creepy. I don't understand this obsession people have with violence in mitigating their anger.
344 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:16:52pm |
re: #161 reine.de.tout
I learned to shoot at about that age.
But we never, ever ever used a target that was a photo of any person.
Ever.
We wouldn't have even thought to do something like that.
And if we had, we'd have gotten hell from the parents.
My dad got those human outline targets for us. But pictures of actual people would have been RIGHT out.
345 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:17:38pm |
re: #342 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"It was totally miraculous, the way I beat that murder rap. Wut up, Jesus"!
346 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:18:19pm |
re: #166 negativ
I'm guessing the objection is that the girl is apparently being given pictures of Alan Colmes to be used as targets. Obviously, there's no danger that this in and of itself is going to turn the girl into a social liability, but in my opinion it is rather distasteful.
I doubt he's actually doing that, he's just having fun showing off for his friends on the Interwebs. Just a hunch. Or, maybe he's actually that batshit, but I imagine he would have angled the photo to show the picture if so.
347 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:19:54pm |
re: #337 freetoken
On the serious tip? My retirement plan is "Wal-Mart" greeter. No joke, no sarc.
348 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:20:28pm |
re: #345 Slumbering Behemoth
"It was totally miraculous, the way I beat that murder rap. Wut up, Jesus"!
"Gabriel, did you deliver that miracle to 312 Elm St?"
"Yeah, I did, got the receipt right...shit, I went to 312 Elm lane!"
349 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:21:06pm |
re: #178 Charles
That's how the right wing is reacting to Colmes's appearance on Fox today, in which he brought up the factual history of Rick Santorum's bizarre handling of his dead baby.
Rick Santorum really did do this.
Maybe some people think this is normal, acceptable behavior.
Threatening Colmes over this is evil. I'm not sure I approve of either digging into how the Santorums dealt with grief over losing a child, or permitting them to make it a morbid point of pride, whichever it is.
350 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:22:32pm |
re: #187 jaunte
Santorum would not be getting the kind of personal criticisms he gets if he was not so interested in using the law to interfere with other people and their private choices.
I think the abortion issue is fair game.
Unless Rick Santorum is trying to pass legislation about whether other people can bring home dead babies to mourn over them or not, I don't see the connection.
351 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:25:14pm |
re: #289 WindUpBird
you're a straight white guy, of course you'd say this
if Santorum said the things he's said about LGBT, about Jews instead, you'd lose your marbles over it
But I know we don't count. I know tribalism is more important to you :)
Perhaps we could leave the Jews out of it?
352 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:25:47pm |
I wonder about is you're trying to have a demonstration and/or candle light vigil for someone like Danny Chen and you expect to have allies show up for your cause and instead they show up with the Communist China flag; chants about economic injustice; the plight of the Palestinian people; ocean pollution; Big Pharma; and they seem to forget or not even care about what they were supposed to be there for in the first place. Then add the cultural superiority head tripping and arrogant nature of white college educated, activist youth. It seems rather obvious that they are there to co-opt, make that use the death of Chen to advance their own personal causes.
354 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:28:03pm |
re: #351 SanFranciscoZionist
Wut? No love for us straight white dudes who couldn't be arsed to support Santorum if paid?
///
355 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:28:12pm |
re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist
I doubt he's actually doing that, he's just having fun showing off for his friends on the Interwebs. Just a hunch. Or, maybe he's actually that batshit, but I imagine he would have angled the photo to show the picture if so.
I dunno, I can't find a configuration of details that don't make the sender creepy...even if not dangerous creepy. I mean, it would sort of be defensible as a not-very-good joke if the sender were the one shooting at someone's picture; add in the "I'm having my 9-y.o. shoot at Colmes's picture" and there's just a deeply disturbing element.
The best I can manage is that the sender is being deeply sycophantic to Michelle Malkin, and this is some kind of weird token of support.
356 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:29:07pm |
re: #352 Gus 802
... they show up with the Communist China flag; chants about economic injustice; the plight of the Palestinian people; ocean pollution; Big Pharma; and they seem to forget or not even care about what they were supposed to be there for in the first place. ...
They are acting old, set in their ways and unable to be flexible. They would probably act affronted if they were simply told the truth - they are acting like old farts. They are stuck in re-run mode, one trick ponies.
Really quite worthless as far as changing society.
357 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:29:50pm |
re: #352 Gus 802
I wonder about is you're trying to have a demonstration and/or candle light vigil for someone like Danny Chen and you expect to have allies show up for your cause and instead they show up with the Communist China flag; chants about economic injustice; the plight of the Palestinian people; ocean pollution; Big Pharma; and they seem to forget or not even care about what they were supposed to be there for in the first place. Then add the cultural superiority head tripping and arrogant nature of white college educated, activist youth. It seems rather obvious that they are there to co-opt, make that use the death of Chen to advance their own personal causes.
You get people like that. Too many. They see publicity, and something they can get behind, and they expect it to be a good chance for them to take over and yell.
358 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:31:13pm |
re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist
I doubt he's actually doing that, he's just having fun showing off for his friends on the Interwebs. Just a hunch. Or, maybe he's actually that batshit, but I imagine he would have angled the photo to show the picture if so.
Alan Colmes made an off color comment on Fox News about Santorum bringing his dead infant home... This was followed by a huge outcry against Colmes on Twitter, phones, etc. Well, the wingnuts were livid...which led to this.
The Tweet in question is basically pretending to say his granddaughter is holding a picture of Alan Colmes to use it as target practice.
359 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:31:16pm |
re: #352 Gus 802
More Ghouls.
360 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:31:44pm |
re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth
Wut? No love for us straight white dudes who couldn't be arsed to support Santorum if paid?
///
Aw, you know I love you guys!
Santorum's fucking doomed, though. If Bachmann couldn't pull it off...he's pure as the driven snow, by the crazytown agenda, but he's got no Elvis, and that will doom him.
361 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:32:45pm |
re: #358 Gus 802
Alan Colmes made an off color comment on Fox News about Santorum bringing his dead infant home... This was followed by a huge outcry against Colmes on Twitter, phones, etc. Well, the wingnuts were livid...which led to this.
The Tweet in question is basically pretending to say his granddaughter is holding a picture of Alan Colmes to use it as target practice.
To use it as target practice because said person is conveying that they are so angry with Colmes that they want to vent their anger in killing him so instead use the metaphor of shooting at an effigy or image of the person.
362 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:33:06pm |
363 | freetoken Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:33:15pm |
re: #347 Slumbering Behemoth
On the serious tip? My retirement plan is "Wal-Mart" greeter. No joke, no sarc.
Hah! Once the Renminbi reaches what so many wish it to wrt the Dollar then Walmart won't be so affordable and won't need so many "greeters".
364 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:33:28pm |
re: #355 The Ghost of a Flea
I dunno, I can't find a configuration of details that don't make the sender creepy...even if not dangerous creepy. I mean, it would sort of be defensible as a not-very-good joke if the sender were the one shooting at someone's picture; add in the "I'm having my 9-y.o. shoot at Colmes's picture" and there's just a deeply disturbing element.
The best I can manage is that the sender is being deeply sycophantic to Michelle Malkin, and this is some kind of weird token of support.
It's not defensible. He is creepy, creepy as hell. That's a just-barely-not-a-death-threat. But my gut suspicion is that he's not actually having the child shoot at Colmes' photo, just bragging that he will online.
Obviously, this is based on next to no information, except that I do think that someone nuts enough to actually give the photo to the kid as a target would have photographed the results.
365 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:34:33pm |
re: #358 Gus 802
Alan Colmes made an off color comment on Fox News about Santorum bringing his dead infant home... This was followed by a huge outcry against Colmes on Twitter, phones, etc. Well, the wingnuts were livid...which led to this.
The Tweet in question is basically pretending to say his granddaughter is holding a picture of Alan Colmes to use it as target practice.
I understand that part--I'm just saying, I think he is, as you say, pretending. This does not make him a good person, but it's slightly less gross if he's merely threatening Colmes and not also messing with his grandchild's head in the bargain.
366 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:35:18pm |
re: #363 freetoken
Well then, I guess "Underpass Junkie" will have to do.
367 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:35:20pm |
re: #362 Slumbering Behemoth
"He's got no Elvis".
Rotating title, or new favorite catch phrase?
It's what Molly Ivins used to say. To succeed in politics, you must have at least some Elvis.
368 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:35:39pm |
re: #365 SanFranciscoZionist
I understand that part--I'm just saying, I think he is, as you say, pretending. This does not make him a good person, but it's slightly less gross if he's merely threatening Colmes and not also messing with his grandchild's head in the bargain.
Oh. The photo I'm sure is just something he had sitting in his computer. I doubt it actually took place. And as you can see the green grass and all...
369 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:37:11pm |
re: #367 SanFranciscoZionist
It's what Molly Ivins used to say. To succeed in politics, you must have at least some Elvis.
Presley or Costello?
370 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:37:57pm |
re: #369 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Presley or Costello?
I'm pretty sure she meant Presley, but I suppose it's open to interpretation.
371 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:38:22pm |
But it's still a veiled death threat IMO. The other problem is that it also might inspire other nuts to engage in such heated wildly over the top rhetoric. Just for some off the wall comment? "Hey man guess what I'm gonna use for target practice tonight man! A picture of you!" Nutty. Stupid people.
372 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:39:52pm |
re: #369 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Presley or Costello?
Just making sure, Presley's hip action is an open call for licentiousness that good Christians should avoid.
/
373 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:41:31pm |
Anyone else not give a feck about Cee Lo Green and that "Imagine" lyrics thing-a-ma-whats-it?
374 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:41:33pm |
re: #371 Gus 802
But it's still a veiled death threat IMO. The other problem is that it also might inspire other nuts to engage in such heated wildly over the top rhetoric. Just for some off the wall comment? "Hey man guess what I'm gonna use for target practice tonight man! A picture of you!" Nutty. Stupid people.
It's more of what we've been seeing for a couple of years now. More and more heated rhetoric, more extreme reactions, acting as though borderline threats are acceptable--it's gotten in deep and ugly. This is the offspring of 'second amendment solutions'.
375 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:42:41pm |
re: #373 Gus 802
Anyone else not give a feck about Cee Lo Green and that "Imagine" lyrics thing-a-ma-whats-it?
Well, I had to look it up, but now that I've looked it up, I also do not give a feck.
377 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:45:08pm |
All of that said: Colmes, you dumbass. Like you couldn't make Rick Santorum look like an unstable psychotic simply by quoting his own words, without saying something that boxed you into an apology, and allowed him to look all gracious and sane by forgiving you? This, you had to go for?
(Sorry, just heard about this whole flappette.)
378 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:45:15pm |
re: #373 Gus 802
Our Lord and Savior John Lennon's Holy Sermon has been desecrated! BURN THE HERETIC!
379 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:45:30pm |
re: #373 Gus 802
Anyone else not give a feck about Cee Lo Green and that "Imagine" lyrics thing-a-ma-whats-it?
Checking...checking...
Nope, either my give-a-shit-ometer is busted or I really don't care.
380 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:45:43pm |
Yo! SB! Did you see this?
Atheists are outraged that Green is messing with what they see as an anthem for their cause, while evangelicals object to his view that all religions are true.
Did you get that memo? I sure didn't.
381 | Kragar Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:45:49pm |
re: #378 Slumbering Behemoth
Our Lord and Savior John Lennon's Holy Sermon has been desecrated! BURN THE HERETIC!
Excuse me, but thats my schtick.
382 | boxhead Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:46:55pm |
re: #380 Gus 802
Yo! SB! Did you see this?
Atheists are outraged that Green is messing with what they see as an anthem for their cause, while evangelicals object to his view that all religions are true.
Did you get that memo? I sure didn't.
it is just a song.... as I remember it, Forest Gump gave him the idea anyways...
//
383 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:47:03pm |
re: #380 Gus 802
Yo! SB! Did you see this?
Atheists are outraged that Green is messing with what they see as an anthem for their cause, while evangelicals object to his view that all religions are true.
Did you get that memo? I sure didn't.
The school rock band at the Catholic high school I taught at sang that as part of an assembly. I'm intrigued to learn that Sister was swaying and singing along to an atheist anthem.
384 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:52:28pm |
re: #353 Gus 802
ABL left Balloon Juice.
Was this part of this whole food fight that seems to be developing about Obama and Greenwald and everything?
385 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:52:49pm |
re: #383 SanFranciscoZionist
The school rock band at the Catholic high school I taught at sang that as part of an assembly. I'm intrigued to learn that Sister was swaying and singing along to an atheist anthem.
Yeah I can see that. I'll get into religious music. But I never took "Imagine" too seriously because it's not one of my favorite Beatles songs. I prefer stuff like Back in the USSR. And I didn't actually agree with all the lyrics of "Imagine." But I don't think it was about "no religion". It was about no religion as a state of mind in how we relate with one another. Could say more I suppose...
386 | boxhead Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:52:55pm |
re: #383 SanFranciscoZionist
The school rock band at the Catholic high school I taught at sang that as part of an assembly. I'm intrigued to learn that Sister was swaying and singing along to an atheist anthem.
Except for the no religion part of the song, I can see the rest of it fitting right in with Catholic beliefs...
387 | The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:53:19pm |
re: #384 SanFranciscoZionist
Was this part of this whole food fight that seems to be developing about Obama and Greenwald and everything?
From ABL's exit from Balloon Juice:
In case you’re not up to speed, long story short, I had a Twitter discussion with Marcy Wheeler about the NDAA; a Greenwald supporter quipped that if I saw Obama raping a nun on live TV, I would defend him for it; another supporter quipped that I would fantasize about playing the role of the raped nun; and Greenwald piled on. When asked to account for the clumsy rape metaphor, Greenwald doubled down, claiming that it wasn’t a metaphor, and that he actually believed that I and other Obama supporters would defend Obama if we were to see him raping a nun.
Apparently John Cole sided with Greenwald or something.
388 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:53:26pm |
re: #384 SanFranciscoZionist
Was this part of this whole food fight that seems to be developing about Obama and Greenwald and everything?
Yep.
389 | MittDoesNotCompute Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:54:23pm |
390 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:54:29pm |
re: #380 Gus 802
Derprage from all sides, how lovely.
"I see you drivin' 'round town with the sacred cow I love, and I'm like..."
[Link: www.youtube.com...]
Ooops... Apparently YouTube now has a block filter for the "F-Word".
Oh Snap! I guess they don't.
Screw you Cee Lo! You're pseudo-inclusiveness has ruined "Fuck You" for some people.
391 | boxhead Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:54:54pm |
re: #387 The Ghost of a Flea
uuuhhhh wow... that is some sick shit...
392 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:55:26pm |
Imagine there's no countries -- Why?
It isn't hard to do -- Sure it is.
Nothing to kill or die for -- That's debatable.
And no religion too -- Good luck with that. I've seen "no religion" turn into a religion.
:)
393 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:56:54pm |
re: #391 boxhead
uuuhhh wow... that is some sick shit...
Got pretty creepy. Cole came in swinging tonight. Was a little strange. I stuck my nose in it for about 6 words...
394 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:57:20pm |
re: #387 The Ghost of a Flea
From ABL's exit from Balloon Juice:
Apparently John Cole sided with Greenwald or something.
Fuckin' bizarre.
395 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:57:38pm |
Why would you want to have no countries? I like France being France...Japan being Japan...
396 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:57:40pm |
re: #385 Gus 802
Yeah I can see that. I'll get into religious music. But I never took "Imagine" too seriously because it's not one of my favorite Beatles songs.
IT'S NOT A BEATLES SONG, YOU NON-ATHEIST FUCK!
/pointlessly perturbed pedant
397 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:58:05pm |
re: #396 Slumbering Behemoth
IT'S NOT A BEATLES SONG, YOU NON-ATHEIST FUCK!
/pointlessly perturbed pedant
John Lenin!
399 | boxhead Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:58:58pm |
re: #392 Gus 802
Imagine there's no countries -- Why?
It isn't hard to do -- Sure it is.
Nothing to kill or die for -- That's debatable.
And no religion too -- Good luck with that. I've seen "no religion" turn into a religion.:)
If people could just be cool and not try to dominate, then those words would make sense. Alas, it is not possible because, as a species, we are what we are... Although I know many individuals that could live peacefully.
400 | Gus Mon, Jan 2, 2012 11:59:20pm |
See. That's what happens. So a song about "no religion" and "no Gods" turns into a religion itself and lead by a God, John Lennon.
Interesting.
401 | boxhead Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:00:01am |
re: #400 Gus 802
See. That's what happens. So a song about "no religion" and "no Gods" turns into a religion itself and lead by a God, John Lennon.
Interesting.
I think John would be the first to say do not follow me.
402 | SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:00:44am |
re: #401 boxhead
I think John would be the first to say do not follow me.
"How shall we fuck off, Lord?"
403 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:00:52am |
re: #401 boxhead
I think John would be the first to say do not follow me.
Yep. Hitchens would have too. That's another debate that's going on. I'll let them debate.
405 | boxhead Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:02:33am |
re: #402 SanFranciscoZionist
"How shall we fuck off, Lord?"
Entertainers do stuff to create hype... Thinking that is how they really are is an exercise for readers of People magazine.
406 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:03:56am |
Imagine there's no countries!
Right. And we're having this 1 percenter battle going on.
How about we start by getting rid of states first! Who's with me!?
//
407 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:04:12am |
re: #404 Gus 802
You must only be mildly appreciative, and as such, only partially so. C'mon dude, you're Cee Lo-ing it up for the rest of us. Damn!
408 | SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:04:31am |
re: #405 boxhead
Entertainers do stuff to create hype... Thinking that is how they really are is an exercise for readers of People magazine.
I love People Magazine!
I also don't know who half the people IN People Magazine are, but what the hell.
They did a weird fluff piece on Callista Gingrich last week. My mom was sort of skeeved out.
409 | boxhead Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:04:42am |
re: #404 Gus 802
Sorry Hitchens. But I'm a drooling idolater of you. Too bad!
I am having trouble deciphering your meaning. Which Captain Crunch Decoder Ring are you using? :)
411 | SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:07:26am |
re: #405 boxhead
Entertainers do stuff to create hype... Thinking that is how they really are is an exercise for readers of People magazine.
I LOVE People Magazine.
I don't know who half the people in it are, but that doesn't stop me enjoying it.
Speaking of, they did a weird fluff piece on Callista Gingrich last week. Very odd. Skeeved out my mom.
412 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:08:09am |
re: #404 Gus 802
You must only be mildly appreciative, and as such, only partially so. C'mon dude, you're Cee Lo-ing it up for the rest of us. Damn!
414 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:10:22am |
re: #412 Slumbering Behemoth
You must only be mildly appreciative, and as such, only partially so. C'mon dude, you're Cee Lo-ing it up for the rest of us. Damn!
Keep in mind that I probably should be sleeping and I'm rambling. ;)
415 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:11:49am |
Imagine I got a hernia operation.
And went to the dentist.
It's easy if you try.
Imagine I have no neck pain.
The leg cramps in my calves end.
Imagine me seeing a doctor.
Living life without pain.
Wooo-ooo-oooo-ooo-eh.
//
416 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:11:53am |
And I am still scratching my head. Cee Lo's "Fuck You" video now requires registration and proof of "legal age" to be viewed on YouTube, but this does not.
417 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:15:41am |
Is it 'cuz he's a black dude that used a dirty word. Probably.
/NSFW
418 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:18:44am |
So let me see the logic here as I flog the dead horse. A song about one-world and understanding and a lot of other imaginary gooey stuff. One lyric is changed and suddenly Green is in "hot water"? That doesn't make sense. If people really believed in that song they'd be like "that's cool". Or do they mean that in this "Imagine" world that if you stray "from the lyrics" you're going to be in "hot water"?
419 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:18:47am |
re: #414 Gus 802
Keep in mind that I probably should be sleeping and I'm rambling. ;)
You take the port oar, I'll take the starboard oar.
420 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:19:52am |
Ve are living in One World Mr. Cee Lo Green. You have broken the commandments and have changed zee lyrics! For that you will be punished!
421 | Big Joe Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:21:13am |
re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist
My dad got those human outline targets for us. But pictures of actual people would have been RIGHT out.
Silhouette targets are banned at the gun ranges around the Bay Area that I've used. I've only ever shot at round targets, cans and rock formations.
423 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:22:53am |
Like I said. These bird brains turned "Imagine" into its own religion.
High irony.
Humans.
424 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:23:27am |
425 | SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:23:50am |
re: #421 mracb
Silhouette targets are banned at the gun ranges around the Bay Area that I've used. I've only ever shot at round targets, cans and rock formations.
We didn't use them at the range, no, they use round targets. Which is good, I think. But we had some silhouettes.
426 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:25:57am |
re: #424 Slumbering Behemoth
First collective moonbat/wingnut "outrageous outrage" of 2012, and Cee Lo nailed it on the clock.
Unbelievable. I Tweeted this:
[Link: twitter.com...]
428 | The Ghost of a Flea Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:27:31am |
re: #389 talon_262
Greenwald's a douchebag.
I've been trying to think of something clever to add to that, but...yes.
Actually, I will add that the dude is a libertarian and that his whinging about Obama (while excusing Paul on all of his nasty shit) is beginning to smell like old-school ratfucking.
re: #418 Gus 802
So let me see the logic here as I flog the dead horse. A song about one-world and understanding and a lot of other imaginary gooey stuff. One lyric is changed and suddenly Green is in "hot water"? That doesn't make sense. If people really believed in that song they'd be like "that's cool". Or do they mean that in this "Imagine" world that if you stray "from the lyrics" you're going to be in "hot water"?
Lennonists don't look kindly on heterodoxist additions to their dogma. Wish there was more humor and less veracity to that statement.
He was an interesting guy, but the whole enshrinement thing is just...blech. It's a disservice to your heroes promote hagiography over reality: good people, talented people, can be deeply screwed up, and can even have done deeply wrong things.
429 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:30:00am |
re: #423 Gus 802
WTF dude? You're either down for the cause, or you're not. No grey areas, no nuance.
/fuckin' traitor
Yep. And I peruse the known atheist blogs regularly, and some not so known. Not all of them gave a shit about this, but many did. Embarrassing.
And I don't follow many religious blogs, but I've heard little on the subject from that crowd.
It's a weird state of affairs.
430 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:31:47am |
re: #428 The Ghost of a Flea
I've been trying to think of something clever to add to that, but...yes.
Actually, I will add that the dude is a libertarian and that his whinging about Obama (while excusing Paul on all of his nasty shit) is beginning to smell like old-school ratfucking.
re: #418 Gus 802
Lennonists don't look kindly on heterodoxist additions to their dogma. Wish there was more humor and less veracity to that statement.
He was an interesting guy, but the whole enshrinement thing is just...blech. It's a disservice to your heroes promote hagiography over reality: good people, talented people, can be deeply screwed up, and can even have done deeply wrong things.
Lennon is gone. There will never be anyone like him again. Anyone else that sings a Lennon song will never capture the feeling that the unique individual had. Even if you change one lyric. Or didn't change them all. The only version of "Imagine" I would ever find myself listening to would be the one sung by Lennon. Others would listen to Green. But I would never expect to listen to Green and have that same feeling I get from listening to Lennon.
431 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:33:01am |
It's like you'll never find me listening to Knockin' on Heavens Door sung by Guns and Roses. I can only listen to Dylan's version.
Heaven! See! Religion! I've strayed again!
432 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:34:15am |
433 | boxhead Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:34:46am |
re: #418 Gus 802
So let me see the logic here as I flog the dead horse. A song about one-world and understanding and a lot of other imaginary gooey stuff. One lyric is changed and suddenly Green is in "hot water"? That doesn't make sense. If people really believed in that song they'd be like "that's cool". Or do they mean that in this "Imagine" world that if you stray "from the lyrics" you're going to be in "hot water"?
If you believe, you would be on the peaceful path of life and let others get worked up. The believing part is the hard part.
434 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:35:38am |
re: #429 Slumbering Behemoth
WTF dude? You're either down for the cause, or you're not. No grey areas, no nuance.
/fuckin' traitor
Yep. And I peruse the known atheist blogs regularly, and some not so known. Not all of them gave a shit about this, but many did. Embarrassing.
And I don't follow many religious blogs, but I've heard little on the subject from that crowd.
It's a weird state of affairs.
I can't see myself joining those group. I know many of them also get into that whole Wikileaks/Julian Assange stuff. I follow ThinkAtheist and he follows me and snapped back at him a couple of times for some of that junk. Some of them border on the conspiracy side which is kind of weird considering.
435 | boxhead Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:36:05am |
436 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:37:06am |
re: #431 Gus 802
"I find your flimsy semblance of faith disturbing".
/vader
437 | Kragar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:37:11am |
So, to clarify, the same people who routinely shell out money to see countless sequels and remakes of bad movies are now pissed when a gifted singer sings a slightly altered version of a song?
438 | boxhead Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:37:47am |
re: #430 Gus 802
No one will be like Lennon again the same way no one will be like anyone again.... But his views are not unique to him. Now him marrying Yoko is something no one else would have done... arrrr
439 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:38:14am |
re: #437 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So, to clarify, the same people who routinely shell out money to see countless sequels and remakes of bad movies are now pissed when a gifted singer sings a slightly altered version of a song?
Yep. The same folks who actually flocked to see a remake of Charlies Angels.
//Seriously though you got it.
440 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:38:38am |
re: #434 Gus 802
Fundamentalist plants.
/
441 | The Ghost of a Flea Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:39:04am |
The Lennon fans freaking on Twitter are nothing.
Back in the day, if you messed with the Cole Porter songbook Ella Fitzgerald would put two caps in your chest and one in your head. She had perfect pitch and perfect aim.
And I ain't saying that the Black Dahlia murder was a warning from Rodgers and Hammerstein, but I also not saying it wasn't, if you get my drift....
442 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:39:49am |
re: #440 Slumbering Behemoth
Fundamentalist plants.
/
I can't even follow Amazing Atheist. He says some weird shit sometimes. But I like a lot of his video. But on Twitter? He's like some perverted teenager. It's really kind of dumb.
443 | boxhead Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:40:58am |
re: #437 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So, to clarify, the same people who routinely shell out money to see countless sequels and remakes of bad movies are now pissed when a gifted singer sings a slightly altered version of a song?
My son loved the movie Across The Universe but does care for the original Beetle versions of those songs.... Likes and dislikes are subjective. obviously...
444 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:42:12am |
re: #442 Gus 802
That dude was off my Xmas list long before I came to grudgingly accept the moniker. Teenager indeed.
445 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:42:30am |
More specifically the generation gap transcend the atheism. So a lot of these guys are young. And while we're both atheists they get into things and ideas that I'm not into. I honestly don't care about hating Justin Bieber. I dislike his music but I'm not going to spend 1 hour listening to that garbage complaining.
446 | Kragar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:42:46am |
re: #443 boxhead
My son loved the movie Across The Universe but does care for the original Beetle versions of those songs... Likes and dislikes are subjective. obviously...
Fiona Apple can hide at my place
447 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:44:12am |
re: #444 Slumbering Behemoth
That dude was off my Xmas list long before I came to grudgingly accept the moniker. Teenager indeed.
They really do get close to Alex Jones territory. Have you noticed that?
Bush is a war criminal!
Sorry but I don't think Bush is a war criminal. And neither is Cheney. Get over it.
451 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:45:42am |
453 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:51:00am |
Well I'm outta beer, and outta gas. Gus, you're gonna hafta kill... is it Stalin or Hitler? I forget... Oooh! Darwin!
You're gonna hafta kill Darwin all by yourself.
Peace, Lizards.
454 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:52:32am |
re: #453 Slumbering Behemoth
Well I'm outta beer, and outta gas. Gus, you're gonna hafta kill... is it Stalin or Hitler? I forget... Oooh! Darwin!
You're gonna hafta kill Darwin all by yourself.
Peace, Lizards.
See! It's always white dudes. Where the Brazilian girls at?
//Strange but true.
Later
455 | Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:56:23am |
456 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:57:16am |
re: #455 Slumbering Behemoth
Pro Tip: "The Amazing Atheist" ain't that fucking amazing.
Nite all.
I know. I'm always tempted to give him some coaching. But then again, I'm not amazing either.
Night.
457 | Kragar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:02:02am |
re: #453 Slumbering Behemoth
Well I'm outta beer, and outta gas. Gus, you're gonna hafta kill... is it Stalin or Hitler? I forget... Oooh! Darwin!
You're gonna hafta kill Darwin all by yourself.
Peace, Lizards.
Always go for Hitler.
458 | The Ghost of a Flea Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:05:11am |
re: #455 Slumbering Behemoth
Pro Tip: "The Amazing Atheist" ain't that fucking amazing.
Nite all.
If folks want an amazing atheist, they should go read Seneca or Epicurus. And although he's more like an amazing agnostic, they should read some damn Confucius while they're at it.
459 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:06:38am |
461 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:22:03am |
re: #459 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Good on 'er.
I'm trying to figure out what Cole would even go ahead and did what he did. First off, Cole shouldn't be defending that asshole Greenwald who deserves to hang out with the rest of the emoprogs, LibertAryans and Reason talking about how they're going to get blown up by "Obama drones" and how they would prefer it happen while they're high as a kite on some primo weed.
People have to choose and I think ABL has far more to contribute than that conspiracy theorist with a suspended law license living in Brazil doing his best imitation of Alex Jones with 30 more IQ points for paranoid and hysterical white boy college students with a years supply of pimple cream in their medicine cabinet.
I unfollowed Cole since he never had anything interesting or make that important to say anyway. There's a lot of people like that on Twitter. I know PZMyers has a good blog and has important things to say but his Tweets are pretty shallow. It was like reading Anderson Coopers Tweets. Just a lot of air talk.
Greenwald also went beyond that stupid rape shit. He said that "Obamabots" would probably nod their head in agreement with Obama if he committed "any crime." Rather vile and a total cliche since it was just rehashed Bush derangement crap with Obama instead of Bush in its place. Cole was actually pretty clueless since the whole thing was rather complex. I do know one thing and it seems like men in general are rather clueless about rape and I learned a long time ago to never ever make jokes about it. Cole and Greenwald failed. And to argue over Greenwald is pathetic because Greenwald is no friend of progressives or liberals.
462 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:27:17am |
See like even at BJ you can find comments like this:
FlipYrWhig - January 3, 2012 | 4:24 am · Link
@Trentrunner: Not exactly. John fucked up because he had that spidey-sense kick in where political correctness and oversensitivity momentarily appears to be the greatest possible peril. If your white privilege lasts for longer than 4 hours, contact a doctor of African American studies right away.
463 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:33:53am |
More junk:
Finn13 - January 3, 2012 | 4:28 am · Link
Glenn Greenwald was 100% correct that ABL would defend Obama no matter what crime he committed. And now ABL has had her fee fees hurt and is taking her ball and going home. ABL could never hold a candle to Glenn’s intellect and ability to reason, she lost before she even started.
ReplyFlipYrWhig - January 3, 2012 | 4:32 am · Link
@Villago Delenda Est: There’s no snark there, VDE. It’s the same cadence as Anne Laurie used when complaining about ABL’s apparent hordes of loyalists trying to silence critics (like Corner Stone) with trumped up charges of racial insensitivity. This is the same domain. “Geez, it was just a stupid remark, why do we have to get all PC about it?”
464 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:35:00am |
Looks like Balloon Juice is filled to the brim with Greenwald fanboys. Intellect and reason. Right.
465 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:35:27am |
re: #464 Gus 802
Looks like Balloon Juice is filled to the brim with Greenwald fanboys. Intellect and reason. Right.
Pfft, confederates.
466 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:58:47am |
Those guys have no clue. They have no clue about what kind of position the president of the United States is put in. They have no clue about the clear and present danger that we're always presented with and about our enemies and how they wish to destroy us. They're afraid of this? I lived through the Cold War. This is nothing. Obama has one piece of shit by the name of Anwar al-Awlaki taken out and these college boys are peeing their pants.
What for and why? Because Anwar al-Awlaki deserved his rights? He wasn't even a US citizen by the time he was blown to kingdom come. He knew his fate and met it. And drone help minimize death to others. Which is something that Anwar al-Awlaki would never have granted us. They want peace, peace. Then keep dreaming to have some psychotic driveling idiot like Dennis Kucinich in the White House. A fool that would lower our guard so much that even Honduras would be capable of invading the USA.
You can't go overboard with unilateral war but neither can you go overboard with unilateral peace. That has been proven time and time again. We are far from a stable world and human being are fallible and unpredictable. We still have enemies. People still have hatred in their blood and never forget it. You can't let your guard down and Obama knows this. Those that don't are living in a bubble.
467 | boxhead Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:10:43am |
re: #466 Gus 802
We need to act like the adults. And as adults, we will have to put foot to ass once in a while as needed.
468 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:21:28am |
re: #467 boxhead
We need to act like the adults. And as adults, we will have to put foot to ass once in a while as needed.
Yes. And it's not that big a deal. People are blowing everything way out of proportion. Which is one of the reasons that the Greenwalds piss me off to no end because they're spreading far more paranoia and misinformation than the Alex Jones's of the world. He has been at it since 2002. Greenwald is a libertarian isolationist. He would prefer to dig his head in the sand as long as he can keep drinking his wine while living in his mansion and defending neo-Nazis once he gets his suspended license back. He's a hack, a showman, a man that cares only about himself. Greenwald would sell out our allies in heart beat. He's a faux or self-made politician that wouldn't even last 4 minutes in the real political world. So instead he gets to write for Salon, a Delaware corporation and make friends with those other lowlifes at Gawker.
469 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:29:54am |
re: #468 Gus 802
Ugh. I'm reading the Balloon Juice thread right now.
This is why I prefer the Democrats, and why they face electoral problems: They can't count on their crazy, radical wing to support them, at all.
470 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:31:03am |
And Obama won't go further to the left for 2012. He remain close to the center if not in fact move slightly to the right on some issues related to regulation and industry. He might even give a green light to Keystone XL despite the controversy.
But I accept that easily given my own ambivalence about the issue. But that's not the central issue. Obama won't run his campaign to appease neither the far left or the far right but instead at the center and slightly on the right in some cases.
And he can't change Wall Street. Wall Street has been in the making for 100s of years. Do we honestly believe that a president has some kind of magical powers to change these institutions? How could he? Some would ask why should he?
471 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:31:40am |
Heh. This put it well:
@manual: [Greenwald's] simple point is that if you support Obama you support child murder and you would support hypothetical nun-rape, but if you spend many consecutive days and, off and on, years defending Ron Paul, that’s totally cool, consistent, and progressive. It was a simple point, and the upshot was that to support Obama is to support unconscionable evil, but to support Ron Paul, you get to screen out the evil and cherry pick the things that please the cherubic choir of Bradley Mannings in Greenwald’s mind. No thanks.
472 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:32:31am |
re: #469 Obdicut
Ugh. I'm reading the Balloon Juice thread right now.
This is why I prefer the Democrats, and why they face electoral problems: They can't count on their crazy, radical wing to support them, at all.
There it is! You can see it now. Sprinkled with the NDAA cliches. The drones! The war crimes talk. Why in fact Obama could commit ANY crime and we'd still be Obama bots!
473 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:33:45am |
re: #470 Gus 802
Obama could be doing a lot more to go after Wall Street. He is in charge of the Justice department, he is in charge of the Treasury, he could beef up the SEC, he could do a host of things that he's not doing.
But that doesn't mean that he's doing nothing, nor does it mean that he's AWOL. He spends 90% of his time making sure the GOP doesn't burn the country down trying to cook up Freedom Meth. It's probably exhausting.
474 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:34:21am |
re: #471 Obdicut
Heh. This put it well:
So true. Yeah. Let's adopt Berkeley's Peace and Justice Committee's road to victory. No thanks.
476 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:35:31am |
re: #473 Obdicut
Obama could be doing a lot more to go after Wall Street. He is in charge of the Justice department, he is in charge of the Treasury, he could beef up the SEC, he could do a host of things that he's not doing.
But that doesn't mean that he's doing nothing, nor does it mean that he's AWOL. He spends 90% of his time making sure the GOP doesn't burn the country down trying to cook up Freedom Meth. It's probably exhausting.
The only way there would be to increase funding to the SEC offhand. But that's much like GITMO: congress.
477 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:35:54am |
re: #473 Obdicut
Obama could be doing a lot more to go after Wall Street. He is in charge of the Justice department, he is in charge of the Treasury, he could beef up the SEC, he could do a host of things that he's not doing.
But that doesn't mean that he's doing nothing, nor does it mean that he's AWOL. He spends 90% of his time making sure the GOP doesn't burn the country down trying to cook up Freedom Meth. It's probably exhausting.
Did Bernie Sanders really vote to keep GITMO open?
478 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:39:22am |
re: #476 Gus 802
The only way there would be to increase funding to the SEC offhand. But that's much like GITMO: congress.
There's lots of ways that SEC could get help without a budget boost. Obama's even floated some of them-- basically tasking the FBI and other federal groups to aid the SEC. The SEC doesn't have have asset forfeiture, like those other groups-- and, much as I hate asset forfeiture, that'd be an excellent way to run an anti-fraud campaign.
But anyway, my point wasn't to criticize Obama. Of course he's criticizeable. There's plenty he's not doing, plenty more he could be doing. You're right that people are too focused on the presidency; if you want to force Obama to the left, then elect a congress and senate that's to that left. But realistically, every time Obama has gone out far on the left, the Democratic party has left him high and dry, without covering his back in the least.
He begged them, for example, to raise taxes on the wealthy when they had (however shakily) the supermajority. He begged them, and they didn't even try.
479 | Gus Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:44:51am |
I have to bail since I am up too late. Getting the evil eye too and I do need get some sleep. So good night! Later Obdi.
480 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 3:04:56am |
re: #479 Gus 802
Shit, I'm just getting up. But oh gods, I have so much work to do. Catch you on the flip side.
481 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 3, 2012 3:24:28am |
re: #351 SanFranciscoZionist
Perhaps we could leave the Jews out of it?
I think I made a pretty clear point about the double standard of "minority that the GOP tribalism accepts" versus "minority that the GOP tribe doesn't give shit one about"
and you know, dogfucking is a pretty serious charge, ya know!
that was the point I made, a pretty clear and obvious point! Gosh!
482 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 3:50:49am |
re: #481 WindUpBird
The GOP gives a shit about gays. Hell, it gives a Santorum about 'em.
483 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:04:55am |
re: #468 Gus 802
I'm not a big fan of Greenwald and I don't think he's actually very libertarian but, in his defense, he gets a lot of credit in my mind for remaining consistent. He's killing Obama over the very same issues he hammered Bush. I'd rather deal with someone who is a "true believer" than someone who switches his views based on which party holds the political power.
484 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:09:02am |
re: #483 RogueOne
Lots of assholes are very consistent assholes. Why on earth is that a positive attribute?
I'd rather deal with someone who is a "true believer" than someone who switches his views based on which party holds the political power.
Ah, false dichotomies in the morning. Smells like fallacy.
485 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:10:26am |
From the "You didn't think that through" department:
Pepsi Says Mountain Dew Can Dissolve Mouse Carcasses
epsi Co., facing a lawsuit from a man who claims to have found a mouse in his Mountain Dew can, has an especially creative, if disgusting, defense: their soda would have dissolved a dead mouse before the man could have found it. An Illinois man sued Pepsi in 2009 after he claims he "spat out the soda to reveal a dead mouse," the Madison County Record reports. He claims he sent the mouse to Pepsi, which then "destroyed" the remains after he allowed them to test it, according to his complaint. Most shudder-worthy, however, is that Pepsi's lawyers also found experts to testify, based on the state of the remains sent to them, that "the mouse would have dissolved in the soda had it been in the can from the time of its bottling until the day the plaintiff drank it," according to the Record. (It would have become a "jelly-like substance," according to Pepsi, adds LegalNewsline.) This seems like a winning-the-battle-while-surrendering-the-war kind of strategy that hinges on the argument that Pepsi's product is essentially a can of bright green/yellow battery acid. The lawyers still appear to be lawyering behind the scenes but we cannot wait for this to come to trial (though we think a trial is about as likely as the chances of us "Doing the Dew" ever again).
486 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:13:34am |
re: #484 Obdicut
...because he's obviously not doing for "party" but out of principle and I don't like people who try to blow smoke up my ass. Wouldn't you rather deal with someone who you knew was dealing honestly with you even if you disagree? ....and what false dichotomy?
487 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:16:53am |
re: #486 RogueOne
...because he's obviously not doing for "party" but out of principle and I don't like people who try to blow smoke up my ass.
Yes, but the principle is a fucking terrible one, so who gives a shit?
Wouldn't you rather deal with someone who you knew was dealing honestly with you even if you disagree?
No, even if there was any way to be certain of that, which there isn't.
...and what false dichotomy?
Do you just not know what a false dichotomy is or something?
488 | Sheila Broflovski Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:21:26am |
Just waiting for first light so we can get on the road. Watched the usual weather horror warnings on TV but the bad roads all seem to be to the south of us. About 2" of snow fell last night. We will probably get some flurries in Youngstown but they keep the Ohio Turnpike pretty clean.
489 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:22:25am |
re: #487 Obdicut
Yes, but the principle is a fucking terrible one, so who gives a shit?
I can pop off the names of a few politicians that I respect and like whose views are completely different than mine. Greenwald doesn't hold the type of views that I would want to vote for but he hasn't done, or said, anything that I know of that puts him in the terrible person list.
No, even if there was any way to be certain of that, which there isn't.
I would think holding a dem president to the same standards he expected out of a repub president should be a pretty big clue that he believes in the views he's expressing
Do you just not know what a false dichotomy is or something?
Yes I do but since I didn't see one in my original statement and you did I was expecting you to point it out to me.
490 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:23:01am |
re: #488 Alouette
My parents are getting ready for their annual drive across the country, and I'm really hoping that all the bad weather hasn't just been holding back and isn't waiting in the wings ready to stomp snow all over them.
491 | Sheila Broflovski Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:24:14am |
Also the free coffee they serve at this place is like having sex in a canoe. Will hit the first Starbucks we can find.
492 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:26:09am |
re: #489 RogueOne
I can pop off the names of a few politicians that I respect and like whose views are completely different than mine.
That's nice.
I would think holding a dem president to the same standards he expected out of a repub president should be a pretty big clue that he believes in the views he's expressing
Why? Doesn't it make him the same money?
Yes I do but since I didn't see one in my original statement and you did I was expecting you to point it out to me.
Oh.
There:
I'd rather deal with someone who is a "true believer" than someone who switches his views based on which party holds the political power.
Which also depends on you being psychic, too.
You see, I kinda do believe that Santorum really does hate gay people as much as he says he does. I think he probably is a true believer; it'd be hard to keep up an act that vociferous. And I'd rather deal with any standard lame-brain politician than his hateful, terrible ass, no matter how consistent he is in those awful fucking beliefs.
I have no idea why blind faith to a principle is somehow better to you than blind faith to a party.
493 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:26:43am |
re: #491 Alouette
Also the free coffee they serve at this place is like having sex in a canoe.
In my experience, that's "Difficult, full of scary moments, but worth it."
494 | Sheila Broflovski Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:27:54am |
re: #493 Obdicut
In my experience, that's "Difficult, full of scary moments, but worth it."
No, I mean to say that the coffee is f**king close to water.
495 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:29:45am |
re: #494 Alouette
No, I mean to say that the coffee is f**king close to water.
Hah. I love that sex in a canoe serves two tropes: as something intrinsically difficult, and your pun.
By the way, you sound quite young, and the bit about your hippie dress made me laugh. Boy did that radio host like his bad puns: "You raised a little cane?"
496 | Shropshire_Slasher Tue, Jan 3, 2012 4:47:24am |
re: #488 Alouette
Cumberland Farms Farmhouse blend coffee is really good, and is only a buck. No, I don't work for them, but sure do go outta my way to get it.
497 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:07:46am |
re: #492 Obdicut
I see the disconnect. I wasn't talking about Santorum, I was talking about Greenwald. You believe Santorum is on the horrible person list while I don't think Greenwald belongs there.
Principle should always take precedence over party otherwise they're pandering liars. I don't know why people would prefer someone hide his real views while talking a good game. I'd rather have someone tell me straight up how they feel. What good does it do to vote for someone who says the right things over the person who doesn't if their views, and the end results, are essentially the same? (The candidate that has expressed the best argument for gay marriage is a guy that isn't going to win either the repub or dem nomination.) That is my big beef about Romney, does anyone actually know what it is he really believes?
498 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:11:38am |
Morning Lizardim. Happy New Year from the wild north country. Had a great vacation back to fish country, and now I'm trying to inform my body that it needs to get back into the normal routine. Unfortunately, said body isn't cooperating.
499 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:24:31am |
They released a photo of the pony-tailed german fire starter.
500 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:30:08am |
We've had this discussion before, what to do with people who are actually insane without meds:
Woman locked up 8 years without trial
Mentally ill woman, charged with murder of daughter, in legal limbo
[Link: www.clarionledger.com...]
The 37-year-old mother from Brooklyn, N.Y., remains in the Hinds County Detention Center, where she has spent much of the last eight years behind bars.
She remains in legal limbo - still charged with murder in the death of her 3-year-old daughter, Reina Russell, but unlikely to ever be tried.
In 2009, Hinds County Circuit Judge Tomie Green ordered Funderburk, who has been diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic, sent to the State Hospital at Whitfield unit for those determined to be criminally insane, but after treatment, Whitfield officials returned her.
"This poor woman diagnosed as having psychosis and delusions is languishing in jail?" said Tucker Carrington, director of the Mississippi Innocence Project. "That seems needlessly cruel."
Angela Ladner, executive director for the Mississippi Psychiatric Association, said the situation needs to be corrected. "You don't put mentally ill people in jail," she said. "You get them medical treatment."
Hinds County District Attorney Robert Shuler Smith said he is open to negotiations with the defense. Until that happens, "we cannot override a court's order," he said.
Stanley Wesley, who has visited Funderburk in jail, said she has already served twice as much time as then-District Attorney Faye Peterson offered in a plea bargain - four years for child endangerment.
501 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:42:00am |
re: #497 RogueOne
I see the disconnect. I wasn't talking about Santorum, I was talking about Greenwald.
Then you shouldn't have spoken generally. I have no clue why you chose to do so.
502 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:43:07am |
re: #497 RogueOne
Principle should always take precedence over party otherwise they're pandering liars.
No, not if that principle is something like "Homosexuals are equivalent to child molesters".
Being a pandering liar is not the worst thing someone can be, especially a politician. The sincere fanatics are far worse.
503 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:44:51am |
Weird. I didn't realize until this morning that I have never seen the end of John Huston's "The African Queen". Now I have.
What's shakin'?
504 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:47:29am |
We had a half an inch of entirely un-forcasted; un-expected snow last night. Took the dog out and WHAT THE FUCK?!?1
505 | Shropshire_Slasher Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:50:16am |
re: #504 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Careful out the, I don't want you breaking a hip. Land on the dog to break your fall.
/
506 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:50:47am |
re: #501 Obdicut
Then you shouldn't have spoken generally. I have no clue why you chose to do so.
I apologize for the confusion. I thought my re: #483 made it pretty clear I was talking about Greenwald....
I'm not a big fan of Greenwald and I don't think he's actually very libertarian but, in his defense.........
Do you have any constructive criticisms/suggestions for how I could have made it more easily understood that I was discussing Greenwald?
507 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:54:53am |
Speaking of people making their points entirely clear:
If You're Still an Undecided Iowa Voter, You're Either Dumb or a Liar
[Link: www.theatlanticwire.com...]
508 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:55:20am |
re: #503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Weird. I didn't realize until this morning that I have never seen the end of John Huston's "The African Queen". Now I have.
What's shakin'?
Bogart was good. Bogart with Hepburn was awesome.
509 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:56:31am |
re: #506 RogueOne
I apologize for the confusion. I thought my re: #483 made it pretty clear I was talking about Greenwald...
Nope. It sounded like you were generalizing. And you're still generalizing.
Do you have any constructive criticisms/suggestions for how I could have made it more easily understood that I was discussing Greenwald?
Yeah, don't generalize, like this:
I'd rather deal with someone who is a "true believer" than someone who switches his views based on which party holds the political power.
Principle should always take precedence over party otherwise they're pandering liars.
510 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:56:49am |
511 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:57:14am |
Morning all!
I awoke in the middle of the night with a killer migraine. Took meds and made an ice bag to sleep on.
I awoke, gloriously pain free and a little euphoric.
Life is good.
How are you?
512 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:57:37am |
re: #507 RogueOne
Speaking of people making their points entirely clear:
If You're Still an Undecided Iowa Voter, You're Either Dumb or a Liar
[Link: www.theatlanticwire.com...]
I hate coin flipping voters. They have a right to flip a coin; and I have a right to hate their fucking guts.
513 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:58:49am |
re: #509 Obdicut
Nope. It sounded like you were generalizing. And you're still generalizing.
Yeah, don't generalize, like this:
Jesus, Obdi...It's a discussion, not a trial.
I hope you don't dissect your lady this much.
514 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 5:58:57am |
re: #510 darthstar
Seemed pretty clear to me and I just woke up. How the hell are ya, Rogue?
Feeling great, thanks! I woke up attempting to scramble to get ready for a job I was supposed to do in Flint on Thursday and got a call early putting it off until next week. Now I have plenty of time to get it ready and take a nap this afternoon.
515 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:00:14am |
re: #500 RogueOne
We've had this discussion before, what to do with people who are actually insane without meds:
Woman locked up 8 years without trial
Mentally ill woman, charged with murder of daughter, in legal limbo
[Link: www.clarionledger.com...]
Yep, I think there is a whole legal advocacy cropping up for such individuals. The jails are what we do with the mentally ill who have no placer else to go. This country will not spend the money necessary on mental health facilities. The taboo against mental illness must be broken.
516 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:00:42am |
re: #514 RogueOne
Feeling great, thanks! I woke up attempting to scramble to get ready for a job I was supposed to do in Flint on Thursday and got a call early putting it off until next week. Now I have plenty of time to get it ready and take a nap this afternoon.
I hate you. Okay, no, I take that back: I hate the fact that you get to relax and I had to brave the asinine post-New Year work traffic to drag my sorry butt into work this morning.
517 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:01:36am |
re: #512 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I hate coin flipping voters. They have a right to flip a coin; and I have a right to hate their fucking guts.
They should put a sign outside polling stations that reads:
If you're going to flip a coin, then you'd might as well vote for the incumbent (regardless of party) since you are probably satisfied with your station in life and wish to stay there. And you're a fucking idiot.
518 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:02:30am |
re: #513 darthstar
Jesus, Obdi...It's a discussion, not a trial.
I hope you don't dissect your lady this much.
Sure, if she did stuff like that, I would. But she doesn't, so I don't have to. But I edit her papers and often have to tell her lesser versions of it. Strangely, she doesn't break into tears and jump out the window.
And I sincerely think this sentiment:
Principle should always take precedence over party otherwise they're pandering liars.
Is one of the dumbest things I've heard said about politics in a long time. It's pretending 'principle' is an innately good thing. Basically, the Paulian position.
519 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:03:37am |
re: #515 ggt
The question is what to do with them. Once they're put on their meds they're fine and it doesn't feel right to hold them against their will in any facility. OTOH, as soon as they're let go they stop taking their meds and do something bad and the cycle starts over.
520 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:04:02am |
Kid is back in school and hubby is back at work.
I get to resume my routine today!!!!!!!
521 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:04:31am |
re: #516 thedopefishlives
I hate you. Okay, no, I take that back: I hate the fact that you get to relax and I had to brave the asinine post-New Year work traffic to drag my sorry butt into work this morning.
I called my wife at 5:30 to wake her up (she's worked about 15 of the last 18 days and is staying at my sister's this week as she opens a new account in the north bay) and I complained about having to go to work...she can be surprisingly sarcastic before she's fully awake.
522 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:04:59am |
re: #517 darthstar
They should put a sign outside polling stations that reads:
If you're going to flip a coin, then you'd might as well vote for the incumbent (regardless of party) since you are probably satisfied with your station in life and wish to stay there. And you're a fucking idiot.
Just two separate lines, one for people who are 'undecided' when they enter the polling station. Instead of their votes being counted, they get put on a mailing list for copper bracelets, head-on, and other products for unengaged idiots.
(Note: Not a serious suggestion, for the lesser-caffeinated amongst we.)
523 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:05:32am |
re: #519 RogueOne
The question is what to do with them. Once they're put on their meds they're fine and it doesn't feel right to hold them against their will in any facility. OTOH, as soon as they're let go they stop taking their meds and do something bad and the cycle starts over.
half-way houses and out-patient treatment.
There are good programs, but like most of the social care system, those that administrate it have piles and piles of case files. Without a family member to advocate for them, the patients are often lost in the system.
524 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:05:43am |
re: #520 ggt
Kid is back in school and hubby is back at work.
I get to resume my routine today!!!
Hello, milk man!
///
525 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:06:25am |
re: #521 darthstar
I called my wife at 5:30 to wake her up (she's worked about 15 of the last 18 days and is staying at my sister's this week as she opens a new account in the north bay) and I complained about having to go to work...she can be surprisingly sarcastic before she's fully awake.
My wife is a terror in the morning. I shove coffee at her and then get the fuck out of her way until she's had a time to blink through some medical blogs.
526 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:06:27am |
re: #522 Obdicut
Just two separate lines, one for people who are 'undecided' when they enter the polling station. Instead of their votes being counted, they get put on a mailing list for copper bracelets, head-on, and other products for unengaged idiots.
(Note: Not a serious suggestion, for the lesser-caffeinated amongst we.)
I don't know about that part, I think that's probably one of the most rational ways to handle the problem that I've ever heard.
527 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:06:32am |
528 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:07:35am |
re: #527 ggt
You are so bad!!!
Sorry...my internal editor was screaming "NOOO!" but I thought, it's ggt...she can take it.
529 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:07:42am |
re: #521 darthstar
I called my wife at 5:30 to wake her up (she's worked about 15 of the last 18 days and is staying at my sister's this week as she opens a new account in the north bay) and I complained about having to go to work...she can be surprisingly sarcastic before she's fully awake.
My wife has to get up this morning to go bowling (she's in a bowling league with her mom and a couple of mom's friends). Needless to say, her grumbling when we went to bed last night was acute.
530 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:07:55am |
re: #525 Obdicut
My wife is a terror in the morning. I shove coffee at her and then get the fuck out of her way until she's had a time to blink through some medical blogs.
I'm the same way. My husband does the same thing.
It takes me a good hour to fully wake-up.
Add to that the pain I feel in the morning.
531 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:08:44am |
It's science!
I've found adrenaline to be the best hangover cure. Bungee jump, go down some rapids, get someone to fire a shotgun at you.
532 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:08:47am |
re: #528 darthstar
Sorry...my internal editor was screaming "NOOO!" but I thought, it's ggt...she can take it.
My first thought was that I had plenty of milk over the holiday.
:0
533 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:08:57am |
re: #529 thedopefishlives
My wife has to get up this morning to go bowling (she's in a bowling league with her mom and a couple of mom's friends). Needless to say, her grumbling when we went to bed last night was acute.
That's a little early in the day to knock down four pitchers of beer...how does she do it?
534 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:09:20am |
re: #533 darthstar
That's a little early in the day to knock down four pitchers of beer...how does she do it?
SSSSS-trike!
535 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:09:41am |
re: #533 darthstar
That's a little early in the day to knock down four pitchers of beer...how does she do it?
Very Carefully (tm).
536 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:11:35am |
Speaking of back pain.
I have to work out with my "special" trainer today. I really don't want to. The "special" trainer is a cross between a Russian dance instructor and a physical therapist.
When I am finished, my back won't hurt, but everything else will.
537 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:12:34am |
re: #518 Obdicut
.....
And I sincerely think this sentiment:
Is one of the dumbest things I've heard said about politics in a long time. It's pretending 'principle' is an innately good thing. Basically, the Paulian position.
I obviously disagree. When it comes to politics I place a higher value on principle than party. I never said I had to agree with the principles held by others only that I want to know what it is they really believe and how they'll behave in office.
When it comes to writers I'm surprised you have a problem with me wanting to have an honest disagreement with someone rather than having them blow smoke up my ass trying to gain favor or pump up their political party. When it comes to Greenwald I don't have to guess, he's made it clear over the years how he feels and for that reason I'd rather read his views than a party loyalist.
538 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:12:46am |
My audible queue is almost empty.
I need good literature suggestions . .
Lizards?
539 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:13:54am |
re: #537 RogueOne
I obviously disagree. When it comes to politics I place a higher value on principle than party.
Even if the principle is "Homosexuals are equivalent to child molesters and should be treated as such?"
Or "State and church should be unified"?
540 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:18:34am |
re: #536 ggt
Speaking of back pain.
I have to work out with my "special" trainer today. I really don't want to. The "special" trainer is a cross between a Russian dance instructor and a physical therapist.
When I am finished, my back won't hurt, but everything else will.
P(ain) T(orture)
542 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:20:44am |
re: #539 Obdicut
Even if the principle is "Homosexuals are equivalent to child molesters and should be treated as such?"
Or "State and church should be unified"?
I think I'm too pragmatic for either principle or party.
I vote for what who I think will do the best job of meeting the countries needs in the current environment.
I have hot button issues, I think everyone does, but I try not to let them cloud my judgement.
This election, I think we need to protect the Establishment Clause and elect leaders who recognize that the world has CHANGED and we need to remain a country that can be relevant.
Restoring the Republic or fighting the Caliphate is not on my agenda.
543 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:20:45am |
re: #538 ggt
My audible queue is almost empty.
I need good literature suggestions . .
Lizards?
My wife is reading these right now...she says they're quite good.
[Link: www.goodreads.com...]
544 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:21:14am |
re: #541 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Denny's... before bed.
Yeah, I think the better question is "What is the most enjoyable hangover cure?"
Fatty breakfasts while steepling your fingers against your temples and groaning softly is a good one.
545 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:22:07am |
re: #543 darthstar
My wife is reading these right now...she says they're quite good.
[Link: www.goodreads.com...]
Thanks, I'll give the first one a try.
546 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:22:27am |
re: #544 Obdicut
Yeah, I think the better question is "What is the most enjoyable hangover cure?"
Fatty breakfasts while steepling your fingers against your temples and groaning softly is a good one.
I was always big on just going back to bed.
547 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:22:52am |
re: #542 ggt
Yeah, I'm more of a pragmatist on most issues too. I want what works. Not what would work perfectly in some idealized fantasy world, but something that'll work, probably imperfectly, in this real world we live in.
548 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:23:21am |
re: #545 ggt
Thanks, I'll give the first one a try.
She read the third one first, not knowing they're a series, and when I got her a kindle for xmas downloaded the other two.
549 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:26:14am |
re: #546 ggt
I was always big on just going back to bed.
Not to obsess on the milk man / Russian dance instructor / PT thing, but Merle Haggard has a good hangover song.
550 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:29:40am |
re: #539 Obdicut
Even if the principle is "Homosexuals are equivalent to child molesters and should be treated as such?"
Or "State and church should unified"?
Absolutely. Wouldn't you rather know that's what they believe, especially if you strongly disagree? I don't particularly like people who self-censor. If you're an asshole let it out so we all know who we're dealing with.
Can't we appreciate people for saying what they believe without respecting a particular belief? I would have more respect for Ron Paul if he came out and said "yeah I wrote it and that's what I believe". I wouldn't vote for him but at least he'd be a stand-up bigot than still in the closet.
551 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:32:50am |
re: #548 darthstar
She read the third one first, not knowing they're a series, and when I got her a kindle for xmas downloaded the other two.
The Kindle seemed to be a very popular gift this season, even my technologically challenged Mom-in-law got one and loves it. Now my wife is looking to grab one.
552 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:32:59am |
re: #550 RogueOne
Absolutely. Wouldn't you rather know that's what they believe, especially if you strongly disagree?
That's an entirely different question. I'd rather know that's what they really believe. I wouldn't rather deal with them.
Can't we appreciate people for saying what they believe without respecting a particular belief?
No. What the belief is matters. Sincerely believing in fucking terrible things is still fucking terrible.
I would have more respect for Ron Paul if he came out and said "yeah I wrote it and that's what I believe". I wouldn't vote for him but at least he'd be a stand-up bigot than still in the closet.
Who cares? Either way he's a shithead. Someone honestly spouting bigotry doesn't make me go "Gosh, how honest he is, I want to deal with him" it makes me go, "What a fucking dumb asshole".
553 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:33:56am |
re: #550 RogueOne
Absolutely. Wouldn't you rather know that's what they believe, especially if you strongly disagree?
That's why I can honestly say, with regard to Rick Santorum, that I both respect and hate that cocksucker.
554 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:35:44am |
some Lizard suggested Guy Gavriel Kay as an author. I'm listening to Tigana right now. Not great literature, but good writing and it keeps me interested.
The concept in this book of the removal of a society from memory and history is something I don't remember encountering before.
555 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:35:58am |
re: #553 darthstar
That's why I can honestly say, with regard to Rick Santorum, that I both respect and hate that cocksucker.
I think he is bat-shit crazy.
556 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:36:14am |
re: #551 RogueOne
The Kindle seemed to be a very popular gift this season, even my technologically challenged Mom-in-law got one and loves it. Now my wife is looking to grab one.
They're inexpensive, which is good, and if you register them to the same account you can share books - and there's a way to "lend" books across accounts as well, I believe. I went for the full Fire model for my wife. Too bad it doesn't have a USB port for adding a flash drive for external storage, but otherwise a decent little tablet.
557 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:37:20am |
558 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:39:03am |
Hubby decided that since the kid has had his driver's license for a while and he is tired of the car sharing shuffle, we needed a third car.
My new car has the most elaborate (IMHO) radio. It's a computer screen with Sirius and USB ports and a port for my iPhone.
It wasn't an expensive car. Is this stuff standard on most new cars?
I just stare at it most of the time and try to find where the clock is.
I feel very old.
559 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:39:15am |
re: #552 Obdicut
.....
Who cares? Either way he's a shithead. Someone honestly spouting bigotry doesn't make me go "Gosh, how honest he is, I want to deal with him" it makes me go, "What a fucking dumb asshole".
Is the guy who holds essentially the same view (gay marriage is bad) but says "My views are evolving..." in order to pander to both sets of voters any less of a shithead? I would argue it makes him more of a shithead.
560 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:39:31am |
561 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:39:37am |
562 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:40:13am |
re: #560 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
The day after hunting season, all the deer gather for a big "Screw You Hunters" party.
All does?
Where is the buck?
some harem.
563 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:42:02am |
re: #555 ggt
I think he is bat-shit crazy.
I don't think he's crazy, I think he's wrong. I think people are entitled to hold whatever views on morality as they choose. Where my problem comes in is when they try to use the force of law to shove those views on the rest of us. I think the Dan Savage defense of Ron Pauls homophobia last week was right on the money.
564 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:42:18am |
re: #558 ggt
We've gotten wise to the fact that the digital display is cheaper than them installing analog... so now, they don't charge us umpteen million dollars for an LED screen.
565 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:43:01am |
re: #558 ggt
Hubby decided that since the kid has had his driver's license for a while and he is tired of the car sharing shuffle, we needed a third car.
My new car has the most elaborate (IMHO) radio. It's a computer screen with Sirius and USB ports and a port for my iPhone.
It wasn't an expensive car. Is this stuff standard on most new cars?
I just stare at it most of the time and try to find where the clock is.
I feel very old.
Yes, it is standard on newer models. Can't remember when they started chunking that stuff in in place of the old-fashioned stuff. Not sure it's something I'm looking forward to when I upgrade my car next year.
566 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:43:21am |
re: #559 RogueOne
Is the guy who holds essentially the same view (gay marriage is bad) but says "My views are evolving..." in order to pander to both sets of voters any less of a shithead? I would argue it makes him more of a shithead.
Oh, much less of a shithead. First of all, it's a really stupid lie to say that he holds the same view-- thinking that gay marriage is bad and equating gays with child molesters is so obviously different I'm really wowed that you'd try to say they were the same-- and second of all, Obama's views on gay marriage and his politics on gay marriage aren't the same thing. He's consistently pushed gay rights ahead, not as fast as some would like but far faster than anyone before him. It's always possible that his views actually are evolving-- I've seen other religious people go through a similar transformation-- but even if he isn't, even if he's secretly pro-gay but doesn't want to say so in order to not lose votes, the fact that his actions are pro-gay matters a lot more, especially if you're comparing him to a sincere, outspoken bigot.
Tl;dr: Of course Obama is better for gay rights than Santorum, holy crap. Which, on that issue, makes him less of a shithead. It's about who does more for gay rights, not who looks more noble while doing it.
567 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:43:23am |
re: #564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Ww've gotten wise to the fact that the digital display is cheaper than them installing analog... so they don't charge us umpteen million dollars for an LED screen.
But having to press the screen is a distraction from driving. With old fashioned radios you could "feel" your way to the button/setting you wanted.
I still feel old.
568 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:44:18am |
re: #565 thedopefishlives
Yes, it is standard on newer models. Can't remember when they started chunking that stuff in in place of the old-fashioned stuff. Not sure it's something I'm looking forward to when I upgrade my car next year.
My girlfriend's husband bought her a Lexus SUV a while back. She had to take a class to learn how to drive it and use all the bells and whistles.
569 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:45:20am |
Frankly, I'm not sure I care what candidates views are.
What I want to know is does he respect the Law and will he/she work to follow it?
570 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:45:54am |
re: #563 RogueOne
His 'defense' of his homophobia? He finds it less toxic than Santorum's. And he correctly says that Paul just wants the states to use the force of law to shove those views on us.
[Link: slog.thestranger.com...]
That's not really a defense. When you call something toxic and threatening, you're not defending it.
571 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:46:17am |
re: #564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Ww've gotten wise to the fact that the digital display is cheaper than them installing analog... so they don't charge us umpteen million dollars for an LED screen.
I've been wanting to upgrade my truck stereo to a nice big 7" digital screen. They've gotten fairly cheap ($300) over the last couple of years. I'm looking for one that comes with an HDMI input so I can plug my phone into it.
572 | darthstar Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:47:13am |
okay...time to get a move on...actually need to be at work at a decent hour this morning...first day back and all.
573 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:47:27am |
re: #570 Obdicut
His 'defense' of his homophobia? He finds it less toxic than Santorum's. And he correctly says that Paul just wants the states to use the force of law to shove those views on us.
[Link: slog.thestranger.com...]
That's not really a defense. When you call something toxic and threatening, you're not defending it.
Exactly!
How a candidate will interpret the law is important.
574 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:48:51am |
IMHO, anyone who truly believes the Constitution and founding documents are proof that we are a Christian Nation is bat-shit crazy.
575 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:50:40am |
What The Iowa Primary Means To Me
By FBV.
One or two candidates will have to shut up and go home.
The End.
576 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:50:58am |
re: #574 ggt
IMHO, anyone who truly believes the Constitution and founding documents are proof that we are a Christian Nation is bat-shit crazy.
Oh, be nice. Since the documents make plenty of references to God, it can perhaps be excused as historical illiteracy. It's not that far of a jump to batshit crazy, I agree, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
577 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:51:23am |
re: #576 thedopefishlives
Oh, be nice. Since the documents make plenty of references to God, it can perhaps be excused as historical illiteracy. It's not that far of a jump to batshit crazy, I agree, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
No.
578 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:55:38am |
re: #577 ggt
No.
That sort of illiteracy is pretty damn willful. I do think it's pretty nutty for someone to adamantly insist that they know something about something they refuse to learn about.
579 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:57:41am |
re: #570 Obdicut
So you think a politician who:
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
"Obama, who was praised this weekend in the gay community, said his position on gay marriage was "evolving," but refused to say whether he would support gay marriage by Election Day 2012.
"I'm still working on it," he said of whether he would move from supporting civil unions for same-sex couples to supporting gay marriage.
...is better than one who says the federal government should have no role in determining who should be allowed to marry? What reason, other than political ramifications, is there for not knowing how you feel about the federal governments role in gay marriage? The man would rather win Ohio than tell us what he believes, I don't find that a plus.
581 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:02:11am |
re: #579 RogueOne
..is better than one who says the federal government should have no role in determining who should be allowed to marry?
Yes, absolutely. Because Ron Paul fully supports the right of a state to have that power. Why on earth is there some sparkly magic to having states have the power to criminalize gay sex, so long as the government can't say that it's okay or not to gay-marry? Because Ron Paul supported the right of Texas to criminalize gay sex.
What reason, other than political ramifications, is there for not knowing how you feel about the federal governments role in gay marriage?
I think it's probably political ramifications. And again: Obama is better for the gay community because of what he has actually done. Obsessing over language when there's actual actions to judge is bizarre.
582 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:02:27am |
re: #578 Obdicut
That sort of illiteracy is pretty damn willful. I do think it's pretty nutty for someone to adamantly insist that they know something about something they refuse to learn about.
It seems to me the Founders bent over backward to make the Constitution as generic as possible.
583 | RogueOne Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:03:00am |
I have to run errands. BBL, enjoy caucus day. I don't vote in primaries, I can't imagine taking time out of my day to sit in a room with a bunch of people arguing about who gets the vote. Seems like a long drawn out way to make a decision.
584 | reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:04:39am |
re: #556 darthstar
They're inexpensive, which is good, and if you register them to the same account you can share books - and there's a way to "lend" books across accounts as well, I believe. I went for the full Fire model for my wife. Too bad it doesn't have a USB port for adding a flash drive for external storage, but otherwise a decent little tablet.
You can also borrow books from you local library on Kindle.
585 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:05:05am |
re: #582 ggt
It seems to me the Founders bent over backward to make the Constitution as generic as possible.
They were educated and intelligent men. If they wanted this to be a Christian nation, they would have said so, explicitly.
586 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:05:22am |
re: #584 reine.de.tout
You can also borrow books from you local library on Kindle.
Really? That's awesome. I may finally get one.
587 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:08:26am |
re: #576 thedopefishlives
Oh, be nice. Since the documents make plenty of references to God, it can perhaps be excused as historical illiteracy. It's not that far of a jump to batshit crazy, I agree, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
This is supposed to be sarcastic, right? These are people that point to the Constitution, which mentions God, Christ, or any other higher powers exactly zero times, as some sort of proof of the country being Christian, whatever the hell that means.
588 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:10:20am |
We are NOT a theocracy.
We are NOT GOING TO BE a theocracy.
589 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:10:50am |
re: #588 ggt
We are NOT a theocracy.
We are NOT GOING TO BE a theocracy.
I agree with the first point. Wish I was more certain about the second one, though.
590 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:11:05am |
re: #587 Simply Sarah
This is supposed to be sarcastic, right? These are people that point to the Constitution, which mentions God, Christ, or any other higher powers exactly zero times, as some sort of proof of the country being Christian, whatever the hell that means.
Willfully ignorant, certainly. Delusional, probably. Batshit crazy, I can't go that far, sorry. You have to remember, I grew up in the theocratic ultra-conservative Christian culture, I know how these people think. The majority of them are terribly misinformed and are unwilling to correct this problem, but they are not mentally defective.
591 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:12:17am |
re: #590 thedopefishlives
The majority of them are terribly misinformed and are unwilling to correct this problem,
IMHO, that is a definition of mentally/emotionally defective.
592 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:12:56am |
re: #590 thedopefishlives
Willfully ignorant, certainly. Delusional, probably. Batshit crazy, I can't go that far, sorry. You have to remember, I grew up in the theocratic ultra-conservative Christian culture, I know how these people think. The majority of them are terribly misinformed and are unwilling to correct this problem, but they are not mentally defective.
Fine. How about if we replace "batshit crazy" with "a danger to themselves and others"?
593 | reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:14:00am |
re: #569 ggt
Frankly, I'm not sure I care what candidates views are.
What I want to know is does he respect the Law and will he/she work to follow it?
Exactly.
There are things that are, in our civil society, legal.
There are things that are, in our personal faith beliefs, immoral.
Where many of the GOP candidates are screwing up, IMO, is combining the two things.
I think abortion is wrong, immoral, an abomination. I also think it is wrong, immoral, an abomination for people to die or be disabled in some way due to substandard health care.
What I find must be allowed in our civil society to ensure protection of health (legal abortions) is vastly different from what I believe is immoral and wrong.
And that's just the way it is. What I can DO is lend my own personal support to various "choose life" initiatives; what I can't do is change the law.
594 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:17:21am |
re: #591 ggt
IMHO, that is a definition of mentally/emotionally defective.
I would argue that there's a degree of unwillingness that rises to the level of mental defect, but people who fall into this type aren't there yet. Fundamentalist theocons are at least able to process logical thought, as opposed to an out-and-out conspiracy theorist, who rejects logic itself out of hand. And yes, there are theocrats who would fall into that category, and I would agree that they are batshit crazy.
595 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:17:57am |
re: #592 Simply Sarah
Fine. How about if we replace "batshit crazy" with "a danger to themselves and others"?
I'm not disagreeing they're dangerous. I just think that they can be fixed.
596 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:19:12am |
re: #593 reine.de.tout
Exactly.
There are things that are, in our civil society, legal.
There are things that are, in our personal faith beliefs, immoral.
Where many of the GOP candidates are screwing up, IMO, is combining the two things.I think abortion is wrong, immoral, an abomination. I also think it is wrong, immoral, an abomination for people to die or be disabled in some way due to substandard health care.
What I find must be allowed in our civil society to ensure protection of health (legal abortions) is vastly different from what I believe is immoral and wrong.
And that's just the way it is. What I can DO is lend my own personal support to various "choose life" initiatives; what I can't do is change the law.
IMHO, using the law to impose individual morality IS immoral.
You can work to help those who believe as you do, but not to work against those who do not.
597 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:20:27am |
re: #595 thedopefishlives
I'm not disagreeing they're dangerous. I just think that they can be fixed.
bat-shit crazy can be fixed.
It involves mental health treatment. Cognitive-Behavioral therapy, meds etc.
Education alone won't do it. They need help in chaning their thought patterns before they can learn something new.
598 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:22:22am |
re: #593 reine.de.tout
Exactly.
There are things that are, in our civil society, legal.
There are things that are, in our personal faith beliefs, immoral.
Where many of the GOP candidates are screwing up, IMO, is combining the two things.I think abortion is wrong, immoral, an abomination. I also think it is wrong, immoral, an abomination for people to die or be disabled in some way due to substandard health care.
What I find must be allowed in our civil society to ensure protection of health (legal abortions) is vastly different from what I believe is immoral and wrong.
And that's just the way it is. What I can DO is lend my own personal support to various "choose life" initiatives; what I can't do is change the law.
Well, clearly we have different views on the morality of abortion itself. That said, so long as that view is being held by someone that still understands it is a personal choice and that they are not entitled to force it on others, I don't have much of a problem with it.
599 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:23:10am |
re: #593 reine.de.tout
Which is a position that I can completely and utterly respect. I think that people who sell cigarettes to other people are immoral-- I did it, and I think I was immoral to do so. But I don't think it should be legally disallowed, because the problems it creates are much larger than the good it would do.
600 | Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:24:54am |
I have to start my day.
Have a great one all!
601 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:26:52am |
re: #575 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What The Iowa Primary Means To Me
By FBV.One or two candidates will have to shut up
and go homeor go get a gig on FOX.The End.
ftfy
602 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:30:01am |
re: #590 thedopefishlives
Willfully ignorant, certainly. Delusional, probably. Batshit crazy, I can't go that far, sorry. You have to remember, I grew up in the theocratic ultra-conservative Christian culture, I know how these people think. The majority of them are terribly misinformed and are unwilling to correct this problem, but they are not mentally defective.
Which arguably is worse. Mental defect can be a medical condition and uncurable. Willful ignorance is self-inflicted, curable, and shows a huge amount of ego and hubris.
603 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:32:12am |
re: #602 oaktree
Which arguably is worse. Mental defect can be a medical condition and uncurable. Willful ignorance is self-inflicted, curable, and shows a huge amount of ego and hubris.
I'd agree with you on that. And these are also the people that supposedly pride themselves on humility and intelligence. It's depressing.
604 | Achilles Tang Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:33:10am |
re: #593 reine.de.tout
What I find must be allowed in our civil society to ensure protection of health (legal abortions) is vastly different from what I believe is immoral and wrong.
And that's just the way it is. What I can DO is lend my own personal support to various "choose life" initiatives; what I can't do is change the law.
You can't change the law and I'm not sure if you would if you could, but clearly most of those who think abortion is an abomination want to make sure the law forces everyone to comply with their personal moral convictions.
IMHO, it has always been that way and now we have the GOP putting itself fully behind the principle that their morality is the only morality.
605 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:36:09am |
re: #604 Naso Tang
You can't change the law and I'm not sure if you would if you could, but clearly most of those who think abortion is an abomination want to make sure the law forces everyone to comply with their personal moral convictions.
IMHO, it has always been that way and now we have the GOP putting itself fully behind the principle that their morality is the only morality.
Especially since we were founded as thirteen separate colonies dedicated to the principle that diversity is bad.
///
606 | kirkspencer Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:42:48am |
I often see the pro-life position presented as equivalent to anti-slavery. That is, it's legal in some places, there are some who find it personally repugnant but defend the rights of others to rule themselves, but its absolute immorality means action must be taken to make it non-existent. Yes, there are those who use this argument while meaning many other things. I'm taking it on its face for the moment as it's frankly the strongest argument the "pro-lifers" have.
The crux of the problem in this comparison is simple. Freed slaves could be separated from their putative masters and made independent. Fetuses, however, cannot be separated from their hosts.
The only complete solution to "protecting" the fetus is to enslave the host, the bearer, the woman carrying it. She must be denied any and all actions that might harm what she carries. She must, in short, be denied full citizenship for the period of her pregnancy if not longer.
This, then, is why I am pro-choice. I will not enslave another being. I will not help enslave another being. A blastocyst is not a person. A fetus is becoming a person, but is not yet a person. Unless and until the developing parasite is able to survive without its host it is not a person.
607 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:45:32am |
re: #559 RogueOne
Is the guy who holds essentially the same view (gay marriage is bad) but says "My views are evolving..." in order to pander to both sets of voters any less of a shithead? I would argue it makes him more of a shithead.
I don't give a crud what he personally thinks about gay marriage or gay anything else. I don't need him or anyone else to be in love with same-sex relationships.
Nina Simone said it best in Mississippi Goddamn:
You don't have to live next to me / Just give me my equality
Loved that line for many years.
608 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:45:34am |
re: #606 kirkspencer
Using 'parasite' language is counterproductive, and not biologically correct. A parasite is something that has evolved that as a strategy for survival. A parasite doesn't have a specially-prepared-by-the-host mechanism for keeping it alive and healthy, it takes advantage.
609 | William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:46:13am |
re: #538 ggt
My audible queue is almost empty.
I need good literature suggestions . .
Lizards?
Bit late, having intertube congestion...
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter?
Pride, Prejudice and Zombies?
Haven't yet read but just got from the library - Rule 34 by Charles Stross. It's about a police unit in 2033 charged with fighting "innovative" crime. And yes, it's _that_ Rule 34...
610 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:48:39am |
re: #609 wlewisiii
Bit late, having intertube congestion...
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter?
Pride, Prejudice and Zombies?Haven't yet read but just got from the library - Rule 34 by Charles Stross. It's about a police unit in 2033 charged with fighting "innovative" crime. And yes, it's _that_ Rule 34...
I didn't know there was a new Stross novel out. I'll have to be on the lookout for it.
611 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:50:06am |
re: #606 kirkspencer
I often see the pro-life position presented as equivalent to anti-slavery. ..I'm taking it on its face for the moment as it's frankly the strongest argument the "pro-lifers" have.
Yeah but they're often full of shit.
"When you say war, they will send you to die by the score"
--Digable Planets
This, then, is why I am pro-choice.
I'm not just pro-choice, I'm pro-ABORTION, depending on who I'm talking to. So much of the so-called "prolife" position is about one thing only: control freakery.
Don't like abortion? Don't effin have one. Don't like same sex marriage? Go marry the opposite sex and be done with it. No one, including the government, is forcing anyone to do either.
612 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:52:03am |
613 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:52:17am |
re: #608 Obdicut
Using 'parasite' language is counterproductive, and not biologically correct. A parasite is something that has evolved that as a strategy for survival. A parasite doesn't have a specially-prepared-by-the-host mechanism for keeping it alive and healthy, it takes advantage.
Well, I for the most part agree that using the term 'parasite' in this situation probably is not very helpful, if only because it's prone to produce a backlash from a lot of people that might otherwise be sympathetic. And I'll admit it makes even me somewhat uncomfortable at times.
That being said, I don't think the use of the term is as wrong as you make it out of be. Under common usage of the term, it certainly fits the situation to a degree.
614 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:55:11am |
re: #611 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah but they're often full of shit.
"When you say war, they will send you to die by the score"
--Digable PlanetsI'm not just pro-choice, I'm pro-ABORTION, depending on who I'm talking to. So much of the so-called "prolife" position is about one thing only: control freakery.
Don't like abortion? Don't effin have one. Don't like same sex marriage? Go marry the opposite sex and be done with it. No one, including the government, is forcing anyone to do either.
See, I could never call myself pro-abortion because, well, I'm not. I want other women to be able to have the choice and option to have an abortion. But to call myself pro-abortion would seem to imply I'd be actively pushing for them to have them, which is most certainly not the case. That's at least just as pushy and controlling as some of the pro-life nonsense.
615 | Sionainn Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:55:39am |
re: #612 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Don't have any, then.
I find it regrettable that you left out this part of Reine's post: "What I find must be allowed in our civil society to ensure protection of health (legal abortions) is vastly different from what I believe is immoral and wrong."
616 | kirkspencer Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:56:08am |
re: #608 Obdicut
Using 'parasite' language is counterproductive, and not biologically correct. A parasite is something that has evolved that as a strategy for survival. A parasite doesn't have a specially-prepared-by-the-host mechanism for keeping it alive and healthy, it takes advantage.
True about it being biologically incorrect. And for that matter about it being "counterproductive". And yet, it's a separate entity that takes nutrients from its host without providing anything to the host's benefit. It endangers its host by its mere existence. By conventional meaning it is a parasite.
For what it's worth I've struggled with finding another word that clearly shows it isn't, yet, a person which hasn't been coopted by the pro-lifers to be "just another word for baby". Not biologically, of course, but in conventional understanding. The only word I've found that stands up is parasite. I can defend it, because if they go the route you just did I can then use words like blastocyst and embryo and fetus and use their own arguments.
617 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:56:30am |
re: #613 Simply Sarah
Nope. The common usage of parasite-- like calling some mooching friend of a celebrity a parasite-- implies equal capacity between the two-- that someone is a parasite by choice, by moral failing. You can't have it both ways: if a xyzgote or fetus is not a person, you can't use terms that apply to persons to refer to it. It's like saying my facial hair is a parasite.
And it's biologically as wrong as can be.
618 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:58:19am |
re: #616 kirkspencer
True about it being biologically incorrect. And for that matter about it being "counterproductive". And yet, it's a separate entity that takes nutrients from its host without providing anything to the host's benefit. It endangers its host by its mere existence. By conventional meaning it is a parasite.
Technically, it does provide something to the host's benefit - the next generation, the passing on of genes. Because the host and the "parasite" are the same species, the parasitic drawbacks are usually overlooked in favor of the reproductive benefits.
619 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:58:49am |
re: #616 kirkspencer
True about it being biologically incorrect. And for that matter about it being "counterproductive". And yet, it's a separate entity that takes nutrients from its host without providing anything to the host's benefit. It endangers its host by its mere existence. By conventional meaning it is a parasite.
Nope. See above. It's both biologically and in common meaning incorrect.
The only word I've found that stands up is parasite.
It doesn't stand up. Not to a moment's scrutiny. A fetus is not a biological parasite, because biological parasites are of different species- and a host of other reasons. It's not a common-language parasite, because it doesn't have free will to determine its actions.
You should stop using the term. It's very off-putting to people like me, who are 100% pro-choice but don't like incorrect, inflammatory rhetoric.
620 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:59:27am |
re: #614 Simply Sarah
See, I could never call myself pro-abortion because, well, I'm not. I want other women to be able to have the choice and option to have an abortion. But to call myself pro-abortion would seem to imply I'd be actively pushing for them to have them, which is most certainly not the case. That's at least just as pushy and controlling as some of the pro-life nonsense.
Absurd.
If I said I'm pro-"you better have an abortion or else", you might have a point, but I didn't.
Saying I'm "pro-abortion" is like saying I'm "pro-blood transfusion". If you need one, you should have access to one and no other person with personal hangups about it should be able to stop you.
621 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:00:36am |
re: #620 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
If you need one, you should have access to one and no other person with personal hangups about it should be able to stop you.
That's just rebranding 'pro-choice' as 'pro-abortion' though.
622 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:02:43am |
re: #621 Obdicut
That's just rebranding 'pro-choice' as 'pro-abortion' though.
It's not rebranding anything, abortion is the topic. You don't have to say you're "pro-abortion", I'm just saying I am.
623 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:03:40am |
re: #619 Obdicut
Nope. See above. It's both biologically and in common meaning incorrect.
It doesn't stand up. Not to a moment's scrutiny. A fetus is not a biological parasite, because biological parasites are of different species- and a host of other reasons. It's not a common-language parasite, because it doesn't have free will to determine its actions.
You should stop using the term. It's very off-putting to people like me, who are 100% pro-choice but don't like incorrect, inflammatory rhetoric.
Trichinosis worms have free will? How do you know?
624 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:23am |
re: #622 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
It's not rebranding anything, abortion is the topic. You don't have to say you're "pro-abortion", I'm just saying I am.
Yeah, but your disticntion between it and pro-choice seems like a false one.
When you say:
I'm not just pro-choice, I'm pro-ABORTION, depending on who I'm talking to.
And then define pro-abortion by terms that just describe pro-choice, it's a distinction without a difference.
Unless all you mean is you call yourself pro-abortion for rhetorical effect when you talk to some people.
625 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:32am |
re: #615 Sionainn
I find it regrettable that you left out this part of Reine's post: "What I find must be allowed in our civil society to ensure protection of health (legal abortions) is vastly different from what I believe is immoral and wrong."
Why? I was responding to the sentence I quoted, not that one.
626 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:51am |
re: #623 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Trichinosis worms have free will? How do you know?
They're putting up internet entries saying to vote for Ron Paul.
///
627 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:53am |
re: #620 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Absurd.
If I said I'm pro-"you better have an abortion or else", you might have a point, but I didn't.
Saying I'm "pro-abortion" is like saying I'm "pro-blood transfusion". If you need one, you should have access to one and no other person with personal hangups about it should be able to stop you.
Perhaps you are right. I believe I need some time to evaluate if/how I should change my thinking on this particular use of language.
628 | Sionainn Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:57am |
re: #625 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Why? I was responding to the sentence I quoted, not that one.
It seemed rude and unnecessary, and implied that that was all that Reine said when, in fact, that wasn't the case.
629 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:59am |
re: #623 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Trichinosis worms have free will? How do you know?
They don't. They're biological parasites-- different species. A fetus is not biologically a parasite.
See above.
630 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:05:38am |
re: #626 oaktree
They're putting up internet entries saying to vote for Ron Paul.
///
Wow, so they're the ones stuffing all the straw polls. Who knew?
631 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:06:15am |
re: #624 Obdicut
Unless all you mean is you call yourself pro-abortion for rhetorical effect when you talk to some people.
Depends on the direction of the topic, not some people.
632 | jaunte Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:06:24am |
And yet, it's a separate entity that takes nutrients from its host without providing anything to the host's benefit. It endangers its host by its mere existence.
This is just what I told my son and his friends the last time they built a fire for barbecue in the back yard.
633 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:07:22am |
re: #630 thedopefishlives
Wow, so they're the ones stuffing all the straw polls. Who knew?
The Pigs. And the Sheep.
Four legs good. Two legs bad.
634 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:07:23am |
re: #631 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Depends on the direction of the topic, not some people.
You mean when people are defining pro-choice as not meaning 'pro-the ability of people to get an abortion if they need one'?
635 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:07:42am |
636 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:07:57am |
re: #634 Obdicut
You mean when people are defining pro-choice as not meaning 'pro-the ability of people to get an abortion if they need one'?
As opposed to anti-abortion.
637 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:08:27am |
re: #634 Obdicut
You mean when people are defining pro-choice as not meaning 'pro-the ability of people to get an abortion if they need one'?
That could be one direction the topic goes in, yes.
638 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:08:43am |
re: #636 Simply Sarah
As opposed to anti-abortion.
I don't see how responding to an inaccurate and confusing term with another inaccurate and confusing term helps matters much, though.
639 | kirkspencer Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:08:51am |
re: #619 Obdicut
Nope. See above. It's both biologically and in common meaning incorrect.
It doesn't stand up. Not to a moment's scrutiny. A fetus is not a biological parasite, because biological parasites are of different species- and a host of other reasons. It's not a common-language parasite, because it doesn't have free will to determine its actions.
You should stop using the term. It's very off-putting to people like me, who are 100% pro-choice but don't like incorrect, inflammatory rhetoric.
OK, I should stop using the term.
What should I use instead, that gets the attention of the people to whom I am speaking?
I'm not using it toward people like you. Other than the term, you agree with the position. So I need a word that does not easily morph to "baby" in the ears of the people for whom the "it's like the antislave movement" argument is honestly held. Preferably one that jars the mind enough that I can talk instead of toss talking points back and forth.
640 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:09:04am |
re: #632 jaunte
This is just what I told my son and his friends the last time they built a fire for barbecue in the back yard.
Careful. That's starting into cultural definitions of parasite, and that can lead down some roads you do not wish to travel on.
641 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:09:30am |
re: #629 Obdicut
They don't. They're biological parasites-- different species. A fetus is not biologically a parasite.
See above.
Biological parasites have "free will".
Really? omg
642 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:09:54am |
re: #638 Obdicut
I don't see how responding to an inaccurate and confusing term with another inaccurate and confusing term helps matters much, though.
How is someone that is opposed to abortion saying that they are anti-abortion inaccurate and confusing?
643 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:10:34am |
re: #638 Obdicut
I don't see how responding to an inaccurate and confusing term with another inaccurate and confusing term helps matters much, though.
What is inaccurate and confusing about "pro-abortion". It's about as starkly clear as can be.
644 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:11:26am |
re: #642 Simply Sarah
How is someone that is opposed to abortion saying that they are anti-abortion inaccurate and confusing?
Obdi is inaccurate and confused, today. Or confused about everyone's inaccuracy. lol
645 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:12:28am |
re: #643 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
What is inaccurate and confusing about "pro-abortion". It's about as starkly clear as can be.
Well, I do believe it is something you need to be careful with. It is something that anti-choice people can more easily twist into meaning what I stated above, as in the "Crazy murderous feminists that want to abort all the babies". Granted, they already do that for pro-choice.
646 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:13:51am |
re: #639 kirkspencer
OK, I should stop using the term.
What should I use instead, that gets the attention of the people to whom I am speaking?
Not all attention is good attention. In this case, especially, when you're trying to make a point about the biological reality of a fetus, you're using a term that has biological connontations, but is wrong. So, it's serving to miseducate.
So I need a word that does not easily morph to "baby" in the ears of the people for whom the "it's like the antislave movement" argument is honestly held.
Why? Is using the term 'parasite' suddenly going to make them go "Oh wow, you're right?" Isn't it more likely that they're going to think "Huh, I didn't think of my fetus as a parasite, not at all, so this person is saying something I can't connect with in the least."?
Preferably one that jars the mind enough that I can talk instead of toss talking points back and forth.
I think you overestimate the benefit of being jarring. I think the way to ensure safe and legal abortion access is through the dual tactic of making the practical and legal argument, as Reine has done, and educating people about biology so they understand how limited the capacity of a fetus actually is, and the severe effects that it has on the woman carrying it.
Now, there is a logically good argument, that windsagio often presents, about how the decision to terminate a pregnancy on a woman's part is not an immoral action, but I've never seen it actually convince anyone.
I could be wrong. Maybe all the jarring stuff and the strict moral logic arguments are the way to go. I just don't think so. I think education and respect for the way the world actual works is better.
647 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:15:06am |
re: #641 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Biological parasites have "free will".
Really? omg
No. Biological parasites don't have free will. If you read my posts, you'll see I was making a distinction between a biological parasite, and the common usage of the term for other people as parasites.
648 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:15:28am |
re: #643 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
What is inaccurate and confusing about "pro-abortion". It's about as starkly clear as can be.
Does it mean you want people to have abortions when they become pregnant?
649 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:16:14am |
re: #645 Simply Sarah
Well, I do believe it is something you need to be careful with. It is something that anti-choice people can more easily twist into meaning what I stated above, as in the "Crazy murderous feminists that want to abort all the babies". Granted, they already do that for pro-choice.
The more vicious among them going to indulge ridiculous fantasies like that, regardless of what terminology I personally use.
While they're at it, they can come ask to see all my spells for my satanic blood rituals. /
Control freaks.
650 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:16:41am |
re: #642 Simply Sarah
How is someone that is opposed to abortion saying that they are anti-abortion inaccurate and confusing?
Reine is opposed to abortion. She's doesn't want it legally prevented. So, if she says she's anti-abortion, and leaves it at that, you have no idea if she wants it legally prevented-- if she's anti-choice-- or not. So, anti-choice is a better descriptor than anti-abortion for those who both think people shouldn't have abortions and that the state should enforce that.
651 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:16:41am |
re: #629 Obdicut
I've seen different biological definitions of 'parasite' that do, and specifically do not stipulate being of a different species. I understand the word is distasteful to some folks on both sides of this debate, but it is also 100% that the behavior of a fetus until viability is 100% parasitic.
I don't think that fact should make anyone squeamish or uncomfortable.
652 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:16:57am |
re: #651 Coracle
I've seen different biological definitions of 'parasite' that do, and specifically do not stipulate being of a different species
Please cite one.
653 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:18:29am |
re: #648 Obdicut
Does it mean you want people to have abortions when they become pregnant?
What kind of ridiculous question is that?
What people women do when they become pregnant is their business, and their doctor's business.
654 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:19:35am |
re: #650 Obdicut
Reine is opposed to abortion. She's doesn't want it legally prevented. So, if she says she's anti-abortion, and leaves it at that, you have no idea if she wants it legally prevented-- if she's anti-choice-- or not. So, anti-choice is a better descriptor than anti-abortion for those who both think people shouldn't have abortions and that the state should enforce that.
If the terms did not already have a lot of baggage attached to them being anti-abortion and pro-choice at the same time would not be a contradictory position.
655 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:19:59am |
re: #653 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
What kind of ridiculous question is that?
What
peoplewomen do when they become pregnant is their business, and their doctor's business.
Right. You want them to have the choice available to them about whether or not to have an abortion. You don't necessary want them to have an abortion, but to have the freedom to make the choice.
Thus, pro-choice.
656 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:20:27am |
Word War II.
657 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:20:35am |
re: #654 oaktree
If the terms did not already have a lot of baggage attached to them being anti-abortion and pro-choice at the same time would not be a contradictory position.
I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean. They're not contradictory.
658 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:20:46am |
659 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:20:46am |
I hate to leave in the middle of things, but lunch calls. I'll dive back in if this is still all going after I finish eating.
660 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:22:20am |
re: #658 Obdicut
Exactly. It gets old.
661 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:22:24am |
re: #656 Sergey Romanov
Word War II.
I'd tell you how it ends, but I don't want to spoil the surprise for you~!
662 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:22:49am |
re: #655 Obdicut
Right. You want them to have the choice available to them about whether or not to have an abortion. You don't necessary want them to have an abortion, but to have the freedom to make the choice.
Thus, pro-choice.
Pedantic semantics.
When I deem it appropriate to use "pro-abortion" in a conversation about the procedure, I'll be using "pro-abortion" either on its own, or in conjunction with "pro-choice", thanks.
663 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:23:00am |
re: #657 Obdicut
I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean. They're not contradictory.
Correct. I should have said "would not be viewed by many as a contradictory position."
664 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:23:35am |
re: #652 Obdicut
Please cite one.
None of the definitions cited here, including biological, here specify a different species:
[Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]
shows defn.s from American Heritage, Collins English.
The third reference (Am. heritage 2005) Does say "a different kind of organism" which _probably_ infers a different species, so 2 out of 3 in this site do not. It's semantic splitting hairs, though, because one might very easily say that a fetus is a very different kind of organism than its parent. However, I'm not going to split that hairs. I'm more than happy to leave it at the fact that a fetus' biological behavior is completely parasitic.
667 | kirkspencer Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:25:45am |
re: #646 Obdicut
Not all attention is good attention. In this case, especially, when you're trying to make a point about the biological reality of a fetus, you're using a term that has biological connontations, but is wrong. So, it's serving to miseducate.
Why? Is using the term 'parasite' suddenly going to make them go "Oh wow, you're right?" Isn't it more likely that they're going to think "Huh, I didn't think of my fetus as a parasite, not at all, so this person is saying something I can't connect with in the least."?
I think you overestimate the benefit of being jarring. I think the way to ensure safe and legal abortion access is through the dual tactic of making the practical and legal argument, as Reine has done, and educating people about biology so they understand how limited the capacity of a fetus actually is, and the severe effects that it has on the woman carrying it.
Now, there is a logically good argument, that windsagio often presents, about how the decision to terminate a pregnancy on a woman's part is not an immoral action, but I've never seen it actually convince anyone.
I could be wrong. Maybe all the jarring stuff and the strict moral logic arguments are the way to go. I just don't think so. I think education and respect for the way the world actual works is better.
I'm not trying to "make a point about the biological reality of a fetus." I'm trying to make a point that it's not a person yet. That may sound solipsist and to some extent it is. It is, however, key.
Jarring works in situations where the argument has become a mindless mantra. It forces conversation. It is not my preference, but in my experience it has frequently been the only thing that gets the conversation out of the echoing of Operation Rescue Talking Points.
It doesn't always work. I'd be delighted to find something that worked more often, or even AS often that wasn't as confrontational.
But I haven't.
Using it, I can progress to the fact that the fetus cannot survive without the mother but the mother can survive without the fetus; that to ensure the fetus progresses to become a baby we have to remove rights from (enslave is the other 'shock' word I use - and it is worth noting that different audiences respond to different shock words) the woman.
It is an emotional argument. My experience is that if you use intellect and the other is using emotion, you fail. If you both use emotion, provided you can prevent pushing it to total rage, you can persuade. I might be wrong, but that is my experience.
668 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:25:58am |
re: #660 Sergey Romanov
Exactly. It gets old.
It is kind of exhausting that we still have to fight for abortion access in this day and age. The day I moved into my SF apartment and found that even there, in a rather tolerant city, there were fanatical anti-choice protesters screaming invective at the women going into the clinic down the block was a sad one. I became a clinic 'escort' and got way too much face time with those jackholes.
It made me think of all the cliche truths: Why aren't these people out helping with the circumstances that lead to unwanted pregnancy? It'd be far more effective-- I think I saw them deter one person in the entire time I was there, though obviously their presence may have scared away those I never saw-- and it'd be doing a good, rather than adding to trauma. And why aren't they at a fertility clinic, where an order of magnitude more destruction of zygotes occurs? That last part has always bothered me the most. For those kind of protesters, I really don't think that the destruction of the fetus per se is what they hate, it has to do with the women.
669 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:29:21am |
re: #668 Obdicut
While with men it's often about misogyny, what about other women? I think conservative religion is the explanation. It focuses all the underlying social issues like misogyny, breaking of established social order etc.
670 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:30:41am |
671 | kirkspencer Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:30:53am |
re: #667 kirkspencer
The tl;dr version:
When the heart's engaged, the mind takes a backseat. Intellectually precise language tends to bypass the heart and so moves nothing.
672 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:32:03am |
re: #652 Obdicut
For me this semantic game has importance. Something that is biologically parasitic on a person is, to my eye, under that person's jurisdiction of action, and not subject to the rule of an outside party. I'm no lawyer, but that's how I've come to define that line in the sand.
673 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:32:10am |
re: #668 Obdicut
For those kind of protesters, I really don't think that the destruction of the fetus per se is what they hate, it has to do with the women.
It has to do with control, specifically control of women's sexuality.
The pro-war, fetus-worshipping ones certainly don't give a crud about destroying other people's fetuses, let alone the already-born.
674 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:33:36am |
re: #666 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
666 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:24:48am replyquote
1
down
up
favorite
report
re: #593 reine.de.toutYou're so swell.
!!!
///
675 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:36:09am |
re: #669 Sergey Romanov
While with men it's often about misogyny, what about other women? I think conservative religion is the explanation. It focuses all the underlying social issues like misogyny, breaking of established social order etc.
It's one explanation. I've been in that transition from a fetus-idolator to pro-choice, myself. There is a lot of self-loathing that one must move past; I did, anyway. It's not uncommon. It's not just religion that makes the self-loathing stick, either.
676 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:36:31am |
679 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:25am |
680 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:43:48am |
re: #672 Coracle
For me this semantic game has importance.
Me too. Can you cite a biological definition of parasite that says that a parasite can be of the same species?
681 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:44:46am |
re: #669 Sergey Romanov
While with men it's often about misogyny, what about other women?
There are plenty of women who hate women, and hate themselves while they're at it. The two are not mutually exclusive.
682 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:44:54am |
re: #675 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
There are undoubtedly issues that are not "religious", where conservative religion is an icing on the cake. E.g. racism and homophobia, where non-believers haven't been any better than believers.
But with abortion, while there are anti-choice atheists, this issue so tied to the worldview notions like "personhood" that it's very hard for me to find another general explanation other than conservative religion.
683 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:47:02am |
re: #667 kirkspencer
I'm not trying to "make a point about the biological reality of a fetus." I'm trying to make a point that it's not a person yet. That may sound solipsist and to some extent it is. It is, however, key.
I use a definition of person that's highly biological. You don't?
Jarring works in situations where the argument has become a mindless mantra. It forces conversation. It is not my preference, but in my experience it has frequently been the only thing that gets the conversation out of the echoing of Operation Rescue Talking Points.
See, to me the parasitism thing is a talking point, and you're describing it as such.
Using it, I can progress to the fact that the fetus cannot survive without the mother but the mother can survive without the fetus; that to ensure the fetus progresses to become a baby we have to remove rights from (enslave is the other 'shock' word I use - and it is worth noting that different audiences respond to different shock words) the woman.
Yes, that's Windsagio's argument. He uses the analogy of someone being hooked up to you that you have to do dialysis for. It is logically sound, but it's emotionally difficult to comprehend, because we don't think of pregnancies as someone being hooked up to us for dialysis.
It is an emotional argument. My experience is that if you use intellect and the other is using emotion, you fail. If you both use emotion, provided you can prevent pushing it to total rage, you can persuade. I might be wrong, but that is my experience.
So is that true for them, too? They could persuade you through emotion? If not, what's the difference between you and them?
684 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:49:41am |
re: #682 Sergey Romanov
Oh, there are misogynistic libertarians who are fully atheistic but against abortion on the grounds that the zygote is also property or whatever term they prefer of the father, and so he should be just as able to make decisions. Most often found among frustrated men whose biological clocks are ticking but who don't have the perspicacity to admit that.
685 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:52:08am |
re: #682 Sergey Romanov
There are undoubtedly issues that are not "religious", where conservative religion is an icing on the cake. E.g. racism and homophobia, where non-believers haven't been any better than believers.
But with abortion, while there are anti-choice atheists, this issue so tied to the worldview notions like "personhood" that it's very hard for me to find another general explanation other than conservative religion.
All of those things can have root in conservative religion's ideas about personhood, namely, the idea that I'm God's Favorite so I get to kick you around, at will. At least, in the west.
686 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:52:18am |
re: #684 Obdicut
Well, yes, "while there are anti-choice atheists".
687 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:53:40am |
re: #685 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
What the Soviet and Nazi experiments have shown is that both aren't dependent on religion on a large scale.
688 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:55:07am |
re: #687 Sergey Romanov
The extent of Nazi misogyny often gets overlooked in context of their other terrible beliefs and practices. And it's not like everyone else was doing stellar on that subject round about then.
689 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:55:20am |
re: #687 Sergey Romanov
What the Soviet and Nazi experiments have shown is that both aren't dependent on religion on a large scale.
This is also true. Though I do love reminding rabid commie-baiter Xn's Stalin was a seminarian. :D
Then there's Deutsche Christen. Nasty, nasty people.
690 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:56:48am |
re: #653 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
What kind of ridiculous question is that?
What
peoplewomen do when they become pregnant is their business, and their doctor's business.
Not to quibble too much on this, but men can become pregnant, too.
691 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:57:14am |
692 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:58:30am |
693 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:58:53am |
re: #690 Simply Sarah
Not to quibble too much on this, but men can become pregnant, too.
The abortion debate isn't about pregnant men.
694 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:00:15am |
695 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:00:57am |
re: #693 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The abortion debate isn't about pregnant men.
While it's obviously a very, very small minority of pregnant people, I see no reason to leave them out. Abortion access is important to anyone that can become pregnant.
696 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:01:44am |
re: #692 Simply Sarah
Oh, that's simple. Some trans men can and do get pregnant, for example.
You mean an individual that was born female?
697 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:03:33am |
re: #693 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The abortion debate isn't about pregnant men.
Though it's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
698 | Lidane Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:03:57am |
Morning, Lizards! It's Tuesday and Rick Santorum is as crazy as ever:
Santorum: States Should Have The Right To Outlaw Birth Control
Luap Nor and his idiot son are trying to suggest that this guy is a librul or moderate? WTF.
699 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:04:03am |
re: #696 EmmmieG
You mean an individual that was born female?
Well, with baby-making plumbing if that's what you mean, yeah.
700 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:05:25am |
re: #696 EmmmieG
You mean an individual that was born female?
Lots of intersex people can become pregnant too, and they may prefer to identify as male.
These are corner cases, but it's good to remember just how amazingly inhospitable and ill-suited our dual-gender view of the world is for those people.
701 | kirkspencer Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:05:40am |
re: #683 Obdicut
I use a definition of person that's highly biological. You don't?
Nope. To me, "Person" is metaphysical. To a small extent it's the question posed by Campbell: what is "human"? I am curious, however. What is the biological determinant of person - what condition turns it from a non-person collection of cells to a person?
See, to me the parasitism thing is a talking point, and you're describing it as such.
Not really. A talking point is a statement meant to stand as its own argument. It isn't a conversational opening. The parasitism thing is a conversational opener. I do not rely upon it to stand for the whole of my argument. Clumsily analogous is "opening with a joke". (I wish I were talented enough to use a joke instead of this term. I'm not.)
Yes, that's Windsagio's argument. He uses the analogy of someone being hooked up to you that you have to do dialysis for. It is logically sound, but it's emotionally difficult to comprehend, because we don't think of pregnancies as someone being hooked up to us for dialysis.
and as you stated, it apparently persuades nobody.
So is that true for them, too? They could persuade you through emotion? If not, what's the difference between you and them?
Fair question. The primary difference is that I use both heart and mind. (sorry for the cliche). The point I was trying to make is that if you don't use both, the heart -- the emotional argument -- wins. In an ideal world both are used, and I try to do this as much as possible.
That said I, being human, am persuadable through emotion. I know this. It's the reason art is so powerful. I've been taught to use my mind to double-check my heart, but if the emotional persuasion is strong enough that's not necessarily going to work.
But I've not seen a strong enough emotional argument to counter the ones I've already experienced.
702 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:05:49am |
re: #696 EmmmieG
You mean an individual that was born female?
Well, in this case an individual born possessing the reproductive organs needed to become pregnant. Most likely he would have been identified as female at birth.
703 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:06:54am |
Lizard Prayers needed for a wonderful family
Friend of my son was heading to a college football bowl game here in Atlanta New Years Eve night with his parents and his girlfriend
The vehicle that they were driving was hit by a speeding police car (he was joining a pursuit)
The mother of my sons friend died at the scene. The other three in the car were hospitalized for the night then released
705 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:07:58am |
re: #702 Simply Sarah
Well, in this case an individual born possessing the reproductive organs needed to become pregnant. Most likely he would have been identified as female at birth.
It's not just plumbing. Don't forget the hormones and the bone structure. Women actually have different pelvic openings, because we need to pass an entire head through that opening.
706 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:25am |
707 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:29am |
re: #701 kirkspencer
Oh. I don't care for metaphysics. So that'd explain that.
Fair question. The primary difference is that I use both heart and mind. (sorry for the cliche). The point I was trying to make is that if you don't use both, the heart -- the emotional argument -- wins. In an ideal world both are used, and I try to do this as much as possible.
I'm saying you're destroying the 'mind' part of the argument when you use inaccurate, emotionally laden terms that allow your argument to be jettisoned through both inaccuracy and emotional mismatch. If you tell someone a fetus is a parasite and that person had had a child and they don't feel that it was like a parasite, then how have you not hobbled your argument out of the gate?
708 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:37am |
re: #703 sattv4u2
Lizard Prayers needed for a wonderful family
Friend of my son was heading to a college football bowl game here in Atlanta New Years Eve night with his parents and his girlfriend
The vehicle that they were driving was hit by a speeding police car (he was joining a pursuit)
The mother of my sons friend died at the scene. The other three in the car were hospitalized for the night then released
My condolences to the family and friends on their loss.
709 | wrenchwench Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:47am |
re: #672 Coracle
For me this semantic game has importance. Something that is biologically parasitic on a person is, to my eye, under that person's jurisdiction of action, and not subject to the rule of an outside party. I'm no lawyer, but that's how I've come to define that line in the sand.
It's a pretty intense parasitism in some ways. There are few parasites that alter the host chemically, which a fetus does to its mother. Some of the physiological changes to the mother are beneficial, like an increased blood supply and an enhanced immune system (that go beyond pregnancy) but of course other changes can be deadly to the mother, like high blood pressure.
re: #606 kirkspencer
The only complete solution to "protecting" the fetus is to enslave the host, the bearer, the woman carrying it. She must be denied any and all actions that might harm what she carries. She must, in short, be denied full citizenship for the period of her pregnancy if not longer.
One pregnant woman told me she felt like she had been kidnapped. Another told me she felt like she had been hijacked. These were women who wanted to be pregnant.
710 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:09:11am |
re: #708 oaktree
My condolences to the family and friends on their loss.
Thanks. As stated ,, a wonderful family
711 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:09:36am |
re: #695 Simply Sarah
While it's obviously a very, very small minority of pregnant people, I see no reason to leave them out. Abortion access is important to anyone that can become pregnant.
re: #697 oaktree
Though it's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
If they're able and want to, why not.
Many of my own ideas about trans and other bodily-integrity matters stem from a pro-choice framework, anyway.
kirkspencer might want to take note - bodily integrity is the best debunk for that prolife=antislavery superior-morality nonsense. Slaves -- which are already-born, btw -- have no bodily integrity. None. It's what defines them as slaves.
Also, abortion was just as illegal during the slavery era as prolifers wish it was, now.
712 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:10:38am |
re: #703 sattv4u2
That is awful, sattv. Sorry to hear it.
713 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:04am |
re: #705 EmmmieG
It's not just plumbing. Don't forget the hormones and the bone structure. Women actually have different pelvic openings, because we need to pass an entire head through that opening.
Well yes. I admit I oversimplified a bit.
714 | wrenchwench Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:10am |
re: #683 Obdicut
Yes, that's Windsagio's argument. He uses the analogy of someone being hooked up to you that you have to do dialysis for.
I believe that's Jamesfirecat, but maybe it's not just Jamesfirecat.
715 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:21am |
re: #711 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Also, abortion was just as illegal during the slavery era as prolifers wish it was, now.
This isn't actually true.
[Link: www.prochoice.org...]
Unless you meant for slaves.
716 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:47am |
re: #712 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
That is awful, sattv. Sorry to hear it.
thanks
My son is pretty shaken up by it.
717 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:55am |
re: #714 wrenchwench
I believe that's Jamesfirecat, but maybe it's not just Jamesfirecat.
Gah, you're right. Sorry, James. I just haven't seen it posted in awhile and I forgot. My bad.
718 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:12:11am |
re: #703 sattv4u2
Lizard Prayers needed for a wonderful family
Friend of my son was heading to a college football bowl game here in Atlanta New Years Eve night with his parents and his girlfriend
The vehicle that they were driving was hit by a speeding police car (he was joining a pursuit)
The mother of my sons friend died at the scene. The other three in the car were hospitalized for the night then released
I never know what to say in response to these kinds of thing. My best wishes to the family.
719 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:14:03am |
re: #715 Obdicut
This isn't actually true.
[Link: www.prochoice.org...]
Unless you meant for slaves.
The imposition of the forced-childbirth lifestyle was foundational to slave experience, yes.
720 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:14:30am |
721 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:15:46am |
re: #719 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The imposition of the forced-childbirth lifestyle was foundational to slave experience, yes.
Well that was just because, unlike now, whites weren't trying to genocide blacks by killing all their babies!
/// They were just treating them as property rather than as people.
722 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:16:11am |
re: #719 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The imposition of the forced-childbirth lifestyle was foundational to slave experience, yes.
But slave-owners also forced slaves to have abortions, so saying abortion was illegal for slaves isn't right either. Choice was illegal. Which is a point you made quite well.
723 | wrenchwench Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:16:28am |
re: #705 EmmmieG
It's not just plumbing. Don't forget the hormones and the bone structure. Women actually have different pelvic openings, because we need to pass an entire head through that opening.
Or you could have a bunch of c-sections.
//not recommended.
724 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:17:24am |
re: #718 Simply Sarah
I never know what to say in response to these kinds of thing. My best wishes to the family.
I have no idea what I'm going to say to the boy tonight at the wake
725 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:17:58am |
re: #720 oaktree
So on principle you're agreeing that they have a right to want to have babies even if they are not biologically capable of it?
If they're not biologically capable, then I would say said "rights" are really just theoretical and a moot point.
Simply Sarah was saying that in the real world, trans men who are biologically capable can indeed have babies; Obdi was saying that intersex people identified as men can, as well.
In my book, yes, they have that right; it's not even up for discussion afaic.
726 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:18:26am |
re: #723 wrenchwench
Or you could have a bunch of c-sections.
//not recommended.
Hormones should still probably come into play, though. Which is probably for the best. Pregnancy is enough of a hormonal mess as it is. I don't want to know what a lot of testosterone would do if tossed in there.
727 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:20:13am |
re: #722 Obdicut
But slave-owners also forced slaves to have abortions, so saying abortion was illegal for slaves isn't right either. Choice was illegal. Which is a point you made quite well.
That bodily integrity of a slave was not part of the slavery system, was more the point.
Slaves =/= persons. It was codified into law.
728 | kirkspencer Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:20:50am |
re: #707 Obdicut
Oh. I don't care for metaphysics. So that'd explain that.
I'm saying you're destroying the 'mind' part of the argument when you use inaccurate, emotionally laden terms that allow your argument to be jettisoned through both inaccuracy and emotional mismatch. If you tell someone a fetus is a parasite and that person had had a child and they don't feel that it was like a parasite, then how have you not hobbled your argument out of the gate?
Again I raise the question: what should I use instead that works? You praised windsagio's correct and polite speech but note it doesn't work. My use of "parasite" has had some people actually engage, and after engagement some have changed their minds. So I have 'good but doesn't work' vs 'bad but sometimes works'.
Give me "good and sometimes works" and I'll use it. Until then I am left with empirical reality.
729 | Daniel Ballard Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:23:02am |
re: #703 sattv4u2
How awful. Very sorry to hear that. Our prayers for all involved and hurt.
730 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:25:36am |
731 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:26:18am |
re: #730 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
You mean you never saw "My Big Fat Greek Wedding?"
732 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:26:34am |
All this discussion only further reenforces my feeling that I still have a world of work to do in getting my thoughts on this issue (Among others) into simple, coherent words that I can properly express to other people.
733 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:27:05am |
re: #731 EmmmieG
You mean you never saw "My Big Fat Greek Wedding?"
I did! But I don't remember parasitic twins in that.
734 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:27:33am |
re: #728 kirkspencer
Again I raise the question: what should I use instead that works?
Educating people about biological reality, and the importance of abortion access to ensure good public health even if you morally oppose it, as Reine does, and that the best way to prevent abortions is to prevent people from wanting to get abortions, not preventing their access to them.
My use of "parasite" has had some people actually engage, and after engagement some have changed their minds. So I have 'good but doesn't work' vs 'bad but sometimes works'.
Like I said, I've never seen it work, in many years of engaging with the subject. If you have, you're evidently doing something right. Bully for you.
Most of the people I've had the conversation with have been highly religious, and opposed to abortion on those grounds. I really find it hard to imagine that calling a fetus, which they think is a god-engendered repository for a soul, a parasite is going to do much good.
Give me "good and sometimes works" and I'll use it. Until then I am left with empirical reality.
Well, anecdotal reality, which is both what you and I have. But that you know that your argument is actually a crafted emotional appeal designed to shock and jar, to me, means you must know that along with the benefit of convincing some people, it must also alienate others, right?
735 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:29:25am |
re: #734 Obdicut
But that you know that your argument is actually a crafted emotional appeal designed to shock and jar, to me, means you must know that along with the benefit of convincing some people, it must also alienate others, right?
Some types will choose to remain alienated and thought-stopped when it comes to the word "abortion".
Screw em, they're not worth an educational effort.
736 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:29:37am |
re: #733 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I did! But I don't remember parasitic twins in that.
[Link: www.imdb.com...]
737 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:30:00am |
re: #735 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Some types will choose to remain alienated and thought-stopped when it comes to the word "abortion".
Screw em, they're not worth an educational effort.
Sure. But that's saying neither argument will work, so it's moot.
738 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:32:35am |
re: #737 Obdicut
Sure. But that's saying neither argument will work, so it's moot.
Well no, it's saying "why bother" or "pick yer battles" or "don't waste your effort", silk purses/sow's ear, horses/water/drink, etc.
739 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:33:25am |
re: #738 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Well no, it's saying "why bother" or "pick yer battles" or "don't waste your effort", silk purses/sow's ear, horses/water/drink, etc.
Yes, that's what "it's moot" means.
740 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:35:29am |
re: #721 Simply Sarah
Well that was just because, unlike now, whites weren't trying to genocide blacks by killing all their babies!
/// They were just treating them as property rather than as people.
Hey! And I heard slave households were more "stable" than black households today, too!
Damn that Lincoln, of whom we are the party of!!
741 | Varek Raith Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:01am |
What are we arguing about this cold, windy day?
742 | kirkspencer Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:17am |
re: #734 Obdicut
But that you know that your argument is actually a crafted emotional appeal designed to shock and jar, to me, means you must know that along with the benefit of convincing some people, it must also alienate others, right?
Yes, I do know. It's the basis of my plea for something else that works at least as well.
I should note again that I don't harp on the "parasite" line. I use it solely as a mental jog. It doesn't always work even at derailing the conversational rut.
It just works, sometimes, for me. And it's the only thing I've found that does, so far.
hmmm. not really a digression, but a possible revelation. Do you recall what was going on emotionally when Roe v Wade was passed? The stories about back-alley abortions, the displays, all of that? All hitting the emotional buttons that brought a lot of support to the pro-choicers? I do.
I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons the anti-choice movement is so strong is that the emotional buttons of all those wasted lives have gone away or been diluted. There's no experience today with that gritty experience, and so the support that should exist doesn't. Instead the emotional buttons are mainly on the side of the anti-choicers.
When the heart and the mind are in conflict, the heart usually wins. Grab the heart, then persuade the mind.
743 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:22am |
re: #739 Obdicut
Yes, that's what "it's moot" means.
The people's alienation is what makes it "moot".
744 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:44am |
re: #741 Varek Raith
What are we arguing about this cold, windy day?
How cold and windy it is ,,, or isn't!
745 | Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:02am |
re: #741 Varek Raith
What are we arguing about this cold, windy day?
Something about aborting parasites. I can't figure it out.
746 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:31am |
re: #742 kirkspencer
I don't think there's even a heart-mind duality in the way you're talking about, though.
747 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:36am |
re: #740 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Hey! And I heard slave households were more "stable" than black households today, too!
Damn that Lincoln, of whom we are the party of!!
I still cannot fathom how anyone could write or sign that statement and then claim with a straight face that they aren't totally and utterly racist. I mean, short of stating that they have a worse grasp of history than most 2nd graders.
748 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:43am |
749 | sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:30am |
re: #745 Killgore Trout
Something about aborting parasites. I can't figure it out.
Parasites??
Are you sure??
I thought it was parachutes
750 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:55am |
re: #680 Obdicut
Me too. Can you cite a biological definition of parasite that says that a parasite can be of the same species?
No. It's only by implication. However that specific language in the definition, is not, in my opinion necessary to make the use of the word in this context. As I've said, parasitic behavior is more than sufficient for my purposes.
751 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:40:04am |
752 | Varek Raith Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:40:45am |
re: #745 Killgore Trout
Something about aborting parasites. I can't figure it out.
Ok.
Not my cup of tea.
So I'll just watch.
754 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:41:51am |
re: #747 Simply Sarah
I still cannot fathom how anyone could write or sign that statement and then claim with a straight face that they aren't totally and utterly racist. I mean, short of stating that they have a worse grasp of history than most 2nd graders.
Please, people will tell one directly to our face whites are superior and are entitled to the best of everything, then claim yur the "racist" because you disagree.
Socon bigots have raised this kind of ignorance to the level of a sacrament.
755 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:43:37am |
re: #750 Coracle
No. It's only by implication. However that specific language in the definition, is not, in my opinion necessary to make the use of the word in this context. As I've said, parasitic behavior is more than sufficient for my purposes.
It's not parasitic behavior, either. It's biologically inaccurate. Biology is a well-established field and the need to differentiate between offspring that take resources from their parents and actual parasites came up, and was dealt with, long ago. Biology, and science, is about being more precise rather than conflating terms and confusing definitions.
756 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:44:39am |
re: #754 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Please, people will tell one directly to our face whites are superior and are entitled to the best of everything, then claim yur the "racist" because you disagree.
Socon bigots have raised this kind of ignorance to the level of a sacrament.
Yeah, I know, I know. I'm not really surprised to see how people of colour get treated at this point, I'm just depressed as hell over it.
757 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:44:46am |
re: #753 Varek Raith
758 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:48:55am |
re: #756 Simply Sarah
Yeah, I know, I know. I'm not really surprised to see how people of colour get treated at this point, I'm just depressed as hell over it.
Eh, dumb bigots...they only display their own self-loathing with shyt like that.
They are writeoffs.
759 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:52:10am |
re: #753 Varek Raith
Whut.
It's a study in Western stereotypes about the commie era culture, I guess. The Soviet cartoons were actually top notch, so these Simpsons and Family Guy gags are based on the authors' own preconceptions, and it's interesting to see what those are.
760 | wilburs Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:55:30am |
re: #538 ggt
My audible queue is almost empty.
I need good literature suggestions . .
Lizards?
The Late George Apley - JP Marquand
761 | The Ghost of a Flea Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:58:44am |
re: #759 Sergey Romanov
It's a study in Western stereotypes about the commie era culture, I guess. The Soviet cartoons were actually top notch, so these Simpsons and Family Guy gags are based on the authors' own preconceptions, and it's interesting to see what those are.
The governing assumption is that everything Soviet bloc is of similar quality to the Trabi. Leftover Cold War schadenfreude.
762 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:03:35am |
re: #755 Obdicut
It's not parasitic behavior, either. It's biologically inaccurate. Biology is a well-established field and the need to differentiate between offspring that take resources from their parents and actual parasites came up, and was dealt with, long ago. Biology, and science, is about being more precise rather than conflating terms and confusing definitions.
I guess we'll have to disagree there. Fetal biology is a parasitic process, and I don't think that's imprecise, or confusing, or detrimental to the pro-choice stance. Though I'd read an informed discussion that actually deals with this if you had a cite.
763 | justaminute Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:06:43am |
Is there any lizards here that live in or around the San Diego area?
My son just called and one of their friends that went through Navy flight school with them and lived in the same apartments was murdered along with his sister and another Navy aviator student with an unknown fourth person. It happened on Coronado, CA. early New Years morning. The friends name is David Reis and his sister was named Karen Reis.
The details are so sketchy and they hate to call the family as both of their kids were murdered. But quite a few of the Navy guys and my son were really close to him and are very frustrated at the lack of detail. The murder occurred on New Years Day at around 1 or 2 AM. They also want to be there for the family and the funerals but they will but cannot leave until the next few days as they have just returned from leave today.
My son was hoping that maybe I could get more details. But all I find is a short paragraph with already known info.
764 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:07:24am |
re: #762 Coracle
I guess we'll have to disagree there. Fetal biology is a parasitic process, and I don't think that's imprecise, or confusing, or detrimental to the pro-choice stance. Though I'd read an informed discussion that actually deals with this if you had a cite.
I cite any biology textbook defining what a parasite is, and any biological textbook defining what a fetus is. They are extremely distinct and separate things.
765 | allegro Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:13:24am |
re: #728 kirkspencer
You can instead discuss the "parasitic relationship" between the host (mother) and blastocyst or fetus. That is an absolutely accurate statement and doesn't enter into the blastocyst IS a parasite and get called into these silly semantic arguments.
766 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:21:52am |
re: #764 Obdicut
I cite any biology textbook defining what a parasite is, and any biological textbook defining what a fetus is. They are extremely distinct and separate things.
And I can find biological journal articles that describe a fetus as 'a successful allograft, a successful tumor, [or] a successful parasite.'
I think this kind of language-argument doesn't have much value. Even if I were to concede your definitional point in its entirety, critical biological behaviors of a fetus are still parasitic in nature, and that is what matters to my point.
767 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:23:05am |
re: #766 Coracle
And I can find biological journal articles that describe a fetus as 'a successful allograft, a successful tumor, [or] a successful parasite.'
Then cite them, as I asked.
768 | wrenchwench Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:24:51am |
re: #763 justaminute
Is there any lizards here that live in or around the San Diego area?
My son just called and one of their friends that went through Navy flight school with them and lived in the same apartments was murdered along with his sister and another Navy aviator student with an unknown fourth person. It happened on Coronado, CA. early New Years morning. The friends name is David Reis and his sister was named Karen Reis.
The details are so sketchy and they hate to call the family as both of their kids were murdered. But quite a few of the Navy guys and my son were really close to him and are very frustrated at the lack of detail. The murder occurred on New Years Day at around 1 or 2 AM. They also want to be there for the family and the funerals but they will but cannot leave until the next few days as they have just returned from leave today.
My son was hoping that maybe I could get more details. But all I find is a short paragraph with already known info.
This is the most recent article I found. It's the AP article, and the same thing is published on many sites.
Freetoken is somewhere in far Southern California, but I don't know whether he would have access to more information.
What a tragedy.
769 | justaminute Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:36:02am |
re: #768 wrenchwench
This is the most recent article I found. It's the AP article, and the same thing is published on many sites.
Freetoken is somewhere in far Southern California, but I don't know whether he would have access to more information.
What a tragedy.
Thanks a lot. I don't know what my son thought that I could find out. I think that right now they are having to report in for duty and so are the other "baby" pilots. They have just left flight school and reporting to their duty stations and feeling their way around in a new situation combined with this tragedy is very frustrating to them. David had asked them to come to Coronado for New Years but they went to NYC instead. That also freaks them out and left them with the feeling that they could have stopped it. But maybe they would have been dead too.
770 | allegro Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:36:43am |
re: #766 Coracle
And I can find biological journal articles that describe a fetus as 'a successful allograft, a successful tumor, [or] a successful parasite.'
I think this kind of language-argument doesn't have much value. Even if I were to concede your definitional point in its entirety, critical biological behaviors of a fetus are still parasitic in nature, and that is what matters to my point.
This. I have seen this tactic for YEARS. It always derails the discussion from the topic of forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term = literal slavery of that woman to some goofy, meaningless semantics argument that successfully directs the argument to the "fetus really is a baby" meme.
771 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:39:45am |
re: #770 allegro
This. I have seen this tactic for YEARS. It always derails the discussion from the topic of forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term = literal slavery of that woman to some goofy, meaningless semantics argument that successfully directs the argument to the "fetus really is a baby" meme.
You seriously saying this was a tactic on my part? Seriously?
What the fuck. That is such a shitty allegation.
What I'm pointing out is that a fetus isn't really a baby, it's not really a parasite, it is a distinct thing, and it's better for people to talk about and understand its actual nature rather than use shock tactics in discussion. Understanding, for example, how late in development cognitive functions come online, and how just exactly not like a developed human an embryo is.
772 | allegro Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:48:51am |
re: #771 Obdicut
You seriously saying this was a tactic on my part? Seriously?
What the fuck. That is such a shitty allegation.
There was no allegation. There was only a statement of fact. I don't know what your motives were for bringing it up nor do I care. It is a fact that that particular argument is a successful tactic historically used to redefine the discussion, just as it did successfully here.
773 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:53:31am |
re: #767 Obdicut
Then cite them, as I asked.
Because you asked.
Petra A et al. From the Decidual Cell Internet: Trophoblast-Recognizing T Cells (1999) Biol. Of Reproduction 60, 227-233 (Which incorporates the next three refs in a review article).
Billingham RE. Transplantation immunity and the maternal-fetal relation. N Engl J Med 1964; 270:667–672.
Clark DA. Controversies in reproductive immunology. Crit Rev Immunol 1991; 11:215–247.
Bell SC, Billington WD. Humoral immune response in murine pregnancy. V. Relationship to the differential immunogenicity of placental
and fetal tissues. J Reprod Immunol 1986; 9:289–295.
None of this likely changes your fundamental point. Or mine.
774 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:54:59am |
re: #772 allegro
There was no allegation. There was only a statement of fact. I don't know what your motives were for bringing it up nor do I care. It is a fact that that particular argument is a successful tactic historically used to redefine the discussion, just as it did successfully here.
It's not a tactic on my part and I wasn't using it as such, and it's really deeply shitty of you to imply that I was. I am 100% pro-choice-- I believe it should only and utterly be a woman's choice to get an abortion-- and I have both worked to get bills passed aiding that and volunteered at abortion clinics to protect women seeking abortions.
I care about the language being used because, like it or not, those who are anti-choice are part of this country too. They're not going to vanish, they're not going to disappear, and at the moment the only thing stopping them from outright criminalizing abortion in many places are the courts, and those can be worn away in time.
In order to win the fight to keep abortion accessible to women, we need to be able to persuade those who think otherwise that they are wrong. I fully respect Kirkspenser's opinion that his method of argument is superior. I disagree, but I could entirely be wrong.
I have no idea why you would be so mistaken as to think that every time you see someone care about how risky a terminology like 'parasite' is to use in a discussion like this, it's a tactic or that it is a derailing of the conversation.
775 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:04:57am |
re: #773 Coracle
And all of them are using it as a metaphor, right, not an actual biological taxonomic classification? They're not saying if someone could write a paper called "Growth rate in tumors", and have it be about fetal development, right?
You clearly understand what the hell I mean. There's lots of things in biology that metaphorically resemble each other, but that doesn't mean they actually are each other. A fetus is not a parasite, or a tumor, and it would only be referred to as such in biology as an analogous argument-- just as you could describe a tumor as a parasite, but only in analogy.
Look, if the term is being used to shock, as some sort of tactic in communication, my only objection is that I think it's ineffective and it personally turns me off. But it's not an accurate description. That having a baby is an enormous strain on a woman and potentially deadly to her is true-- a fetus is much more harmful to a woman than most parasites. Most parasites are co-evolved to do as little damage as possible to their hosts. Fetuses are actually in a Darwinian competition with females to try to get as much nutrient, as much from them as possible because, genetically, the fetus doesn't 'care' about long-term survival of the woman. The woman's body fights back because its genetics make it favor its long term health so that it can have more children down the road.
Calling it parasitism both trivializes or ignores the emotional attitude that humans often, if not always, have towards the fetus, and the extent of a burden it is to the mother. It is far more onerous than parasitism.
776 | allegro Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:09:45am |
re: #774 Obdicut
I have no idea why you would be so mistaken as to think that every time you see someone care about how risky a terminology like 'parasite' is to use in a discussion like this, it's a tactic or that it is a derailing of the conversation.
Perhaps if you would stop personalizing what you seem to feel is some undeserved criticism, you might see that what I am pointing out is this:
Your point focused on a minor point of semantics at the expense of the argument being put forth, thus diverting the argument being proposed, i.e. forced incubation of a fetus = slavery, into a fetus focused debate. You may, or may not, have been aware that this particular diversionary tactic is one that has been used for several decades in exactly the way you used it by the anti-choice brigades.
777 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:21:18am |
re: #776 allegro
I don't feel it's a minor point of semantics.
You may, or may not, have been aware that this particular diversionary tactic is one that has been used for several decades in exactly the way you used it by the anti-choice brigades.
No, because it hasn't been done in exactly the way I've done it, with repeated statements that a fetus is not a human being, that pro-choice is the correct position. Not at all. You really think it has? Or bye 'exactly the way you used it', did you mean 'not really very much like the way you used it'? Or is context not at all important?
What you're saying is actually illustrative of the damn problem. By using a word like "parasite' you give goddamn easy ammo to the loons. They can say, credibly, that fetuses aren't parasites, and they can say "Women, do you feel like your baby was a parasite?" Having a parasite is a solely negative experience. Obviously, humans don't feel having a baby is a solely negative experience. It may be, for individual women, and that is part of why all women should have 100% access to abortion.
If you're not convinced by what i argue about it, fine, keep using parasite language. If you and I were attempting to lobby a state senator for his support on a bill for women's access to abortions, I wouldn't interrupt you if you said "parasite" or even disagree with you. But why can't we have a conversation about this without it being seen as a distraction?
Why the hell isn't the defense of the use of the term the distraction?
779 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:34:31am |
re: #775 Obdicut
And all of them are using it as a metaphor, right, not an actual biological taxonomic classification? They're not saying if someone could write a paper called "Growth rate in tumors", and have it be about fetal development, right?
No. They these papers are likening biological functions of the fetus and mother to be similar in important ways to tumors and/or parasites. That is more than enough for me to use the term with total legitimacy (I was already satisfied before, but this bolsters my position, though I'm pretty sure you won't agree).
You clearly understand what the hell I mean.
I absolutely do, and I understand your concern that language misused could weaken an argument in the last battleground of the courts. I still believe the language is simply not being misused.
Look, if the term is being used to shock, as some sort of tactic in communication, my only objection is that I think it's ineffective and it personally turns me off.
That's not why I use it.
But it's not an accurate description...
The argument you put forth in this paragraph and after boils down to, as I interpret it, that the fetus is actually 'worse' to its mother than a parasite is to its host, and that therefore 'parasite' is an understatement of the biological (and emotional) impact. This may all be true, but is, as far my argument is concerned, somewhat beside the point. For me it's a fundamental question of jurisdiction; the fate of a fetus, in this case exactly like a parasite, or a tumor, is in the mother's/host's jurisdiction to decide - and no one else's. That there are additional physical and emotional strains doesn't alter this.
Frankly, I would never council a woman who was considering whether or not to have an abortion to 'think of their fetus as a parasite'. I would never council such a woman unless exlpicitly asked for my thoughts. The term is only truly useful in the defense of a woman's right to choose, but I maintain it is in fact both accurate and useful.
Perhaps the power of this word is indeed metaphorical. However, there is no single, focused word that encapsulates the whole of what you wish to convey. Find me that word, and I'll use it.
780 | reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:41:42am |
re: #598 Simply Sarah
Well, clearly we have different views on the morality of abortion itself. That said, so long as that view is being held by someone that still understands it is a personal choice and that they are not entitled to force it on others, I don't have much of a problem with it.
Well. It doesn't really matter to me one way or the other whether you have a "problem" with my views. They are what they are. So go ahead, and have a problem with it. It sounds like you sorta kinda want to.
781 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:43:07am |
re: #779 Coracle
No. They these papers are likening biological functions of the fetus and mother to be similar in important ways to tumors and/or parasites.
Right, similar. So what? Things that are similar to each other are still not referable to as that thing. Gills are like lungs. They are not lungs. The fact there is a huge Darwinian difference between the relationship between fetus and host and the relationship between parasite and host alone shows how big the gulf between them is.
The argument you put forth in this paragraph and after boils down to, as I interpret it, that the fetus is actually 'worse' to its mother than a parasite is to its host, and that therefore 'parasite' is an understatement of the biological (and emotional) impact.
It's both a misstatement and an understatement.
For me it's a fundamental question of jurisdiction; the fate of a fetus, in this case exactly like a parasite, or a tumor, is in the mother's/host's jurisdiction to decide - and no one else's.
You are analogizing. That can't be incorrect, it can only be strong or weak. I don't really care about discerning how strong the analogy between a parasite and a fetus is. And yes, I completely agree it's entirely the mother's decision. I don't think that's based on it being analogous to anything, though.
Perhaps the power of this word is indeed metaphorical. However, there is no single, focused word that encapsulates the whole of what you wish to convey. Find me that word, and I'll use it.
Why does it have to be one word? Are we paying by the line or something? I don't have a sound-bite for you. If you are convinced parasite works, then go ahead and use it. Maybe I'm wrong. Just pay attention to results, and validate that choice with scrutiny.
782 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:48:19am |
re: #780 reine.de.tout
Well. It doesn't really matter to me one way or the other whether you have a "problem" with my views. They are what they are. So go ahead, and have a problem with it. It sounds like you sorta kinda want to.
No, no. That wasn't my intention at all. I...clearly worded that very badly. What I should have said is that I respect that you have made your personal choice, even if it's not the one I would have made, since my whole view of this is based on choice. Since you don't intend to try and force your choice on all women, there's no conflict between us. You are simply picking one of the options I think women should have.
I apologize very much for my terrible miscommunication.
783 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:49:51am |
re: #782 Simply Sarah
No, no. That wasn't my intention at all. I...clearly worded that very badly. What I should have said is that I respect that you have made your personal choice, even if it's not the one I would have made, since my whole view of this is based on choice. Since you don't intend to try and force your choice on all women, there's no conflict between us. You are simply picking one of the options I think women should have.
I apologize very much for my terrible miscommunication.
And this is why I'm always afraid to say much of anything. I have a really bad habit of placing my foot somewhere down into my stomach.
784 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:53:30am |
re: #783 Simply Sarah
Heh. Just because I can tell you're trying very hard, which I think is admirable, I'm going to say I don't understand what you mean when you say Reine has made her personal choice and it's not the one you would have made. What choice?
I think you're nifty for your indefatigable desire to hammer out communication issues.
785 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:58:29am |
re: #781 Obdicut
Does it have to be one word? Are we paying by the line or something? I don't have a sound-bite for you. If you are convinced parasite works, then go ahead and use it. Maybe I'm wrong. Just pay attention to results, and validate that choice with scrutiny.
Unfortunately, it does have to come down to one or two words, because that is where the war of rhetoric is fought, until it gets into the details of testimony, biology, and law for the people who actually will be writing, or rewriting the rules.
"Abortion is murder" and "Child not a choice" resonate not because they are true, but because they are short. "A woman's body is her jurisdiction" is rather longer, and less catchy, and engenders further questions. The side of choice has the harder job, as we are arguing against the power of millennia-old parchment and dogmatism. We need semiotically powerful words, not for shock value, but to be rhetorically load-bearing. I find 'fetus as parasite' to have that function - I already wouldn't be using it if I thought it was doing the pro-choice argument a disservice.
786 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:00:50pm |
re: #785 Coracle
Unfortunately, it does have to come down to one or two words, because that is where the war of rhetoric is fought,
I don't think that's true.
I find 'fetus as parasite' to have that function - I already wouldn't be using it if I thought it was doing the pro-choice argument a disservice.
And that someone could respond, "You're wrong, a fetus is not a parasite," and they'd be correct doesn't bother you? Or is a gill a lung?
787 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:01:14pm |
re: #784 Obdicut
Heh. Just because I can tell you're trying very hard, which I think is admirable, I'm going to say I don't understand what you mean when you say Reine has made her personal choice and it's not the one you would have made. What choice?
I think you're nifty for your indefatigable desire to hammer out communication issues.
Ah, well, she has come to the conclusion that abortion is wrong and, I can only assume, would never have one performed (I have no idea how she'd handle cases such as her life being in danger or whatever, that's not really important here). I have come to a different conclusion and I'd be OK with considering having an abortion if I were in a situation where that was an option. Perhaps choice was, again, the wrong word. Mainly I meant her choice to not have an abortion, even if I'm just talking in the abstract here.
And I sorta feel that it's my job to work out these issues. Heaven knows I cause enough of them. I'm really working on trying to avoid them in the first place, but I obviously have a long way to go and I'm thinking I'll never quite reach where I want to be. But really, if I want to try and contribute to discussion, the least I can do is try to make sure everyone understands each other, especially when I'm the cause of it and it causes a negative reaction from someone.
788 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:06:16pm |
re: #787 Simply Sarah
Rather than really being critical, I was more pointing out that you and Reine are doing exactly what each other does-- living your lives taking responsibility for your own moral decisions and not forcing your views on anyone else.
789 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:07:10pm |
re: #786 Obdicut
I don't think that's true.
And that someone could respond, "You're wrong, a fetus is not a parasite," and they'd be correct doesn't bother you? Or is a gill a lung?
Though our argument has been about definitional accuracy. My argument regarding the woman's rights to what goes on in her body is from the start metaphorical, and you've given me better ammunition for it by making the strong point that a fetus is in fact a greater antagonist than a parasite. I would never go into an argument with a pro-lifer saying a fetus is a parasite. I would say it is parasitic, and if given the response you quote above would be happy to go into the details, and why those details mean it is the woman's right to do what she wants in the jurisdiction of her body.
790 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:11:26pm |
re: #788 Obdicut
Rather than really being critical, I was more pointing out that you and Reine are doing exactly what each other does-- living your lives taking responsibility for your own moral decisions and not forcing your views on anyone else.
Well, while I admit it's rather selfish on my part, I do hope she sees my apology and that I meant no offense, even if it doesn't make up for my initial badly worded comment.
791 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:12:01pm |
re: #789 Coracle
I would never go into an argument with a pro-lifer saying a fetus is a parasite. I would say it is parasitic, and if given the response you quote above would be happy to go into the details, and why those details mean it is the woman's right to do what she wants in the jurisdiction of her body.
Heh. In that case, you should really call the placenta the parasite, and the fetus either its offspring or a parasite of it itself. Which kind of shows, to me, how easy these analogies are to break down.
I think that there are ways to talk about the strain that being pregnant is on a woman without having the side effect of dissing motherhood. I'm not good at three word. I also don't believe in three words. I can't remember the last time I knew anyone that was convinced by three words.
792 | Decatur Deb Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:14:19pm |
re: #791 Obdicut
Heh. In that case, you should really call the placenta the parasite, and the fetus either its offspring or a parasite of it itself. Which kind of shows, to me, how easy these analogies are to break down.
I think that there are ways to talk about the strain that being pregnant is on a woman without having the side effect of dissing motherhood. I'm not good at three word. I also don't believe in three words. I can't remember the last time I knew anyone that was convinced by three words.
Yes? I can.
793 | Obdicut Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:15:55pm |
re: #792 Decatur Deb
Heh. I'm not saying catchphrases aren't nice things that help boost morale and bind people together-- but if someone was anti-Obama, it wouldn't really help win 'em over.
794 | reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:18:49pm |
re: #782 Simply Sarah
No, no. That wasn't my intention at all. I...clearly worded that very badly. What I should have said is that I respect that you have made your personal choice, even if it's not the one I would have made, since my whole view of this is based on choice. Since you don't intend to try and force your choice on all women, there's no conflict between us. You are simply picking one of the options I think women should have.
I apologize very much for my terrible miscommunication.
Ah! My apologies, then, for jumping to a conclusion!
795 | Coracle Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:20:27pm |
re: #791 Obdicut
Heh. In that case, you should really call the placenta the parasite, and the fetus either its offspring or a parasite of it itself. Which kind of shows, to me, how easy these analogies are to break down.
That doesn't bother me. If we've gotten to the point where we're past simple analogies, we're already having a better dialog than anyone picketing abortion clinics has likely ever had.
I think that there are ways to talk about the strain that being pregnant is on a woman without having the side effect of dissing motherhood. I'm not good at three word. I also don't believe in three words. I can't remember the last time I knew anyone that was convinced by three words.
Three words are a title, a header, or a rallying cry. Underneath is where the meat is. And virtually all of the biology based arguments, no matter the semantics, are going to fall on deaf ears for hardline anti-choicers, because, as has been pointed out by others as well, their ultimate argument is not biological, but theological. These arguments are really only for people open to the idea that we humans are the ultimate the decision makers about our own rights.
796 | Simply Sarah Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:22:22pm |
re: #794 reine.de.tout
Ah! My apologies, then, for jumping to a conclusion!
Oh, no need for you to apologize. Looking back at what I wrote, it's all very awkward and unclear and I can very much see how it could be interpreted in the way you did. As I said, I need to really do a much better job with how I try to express myself.
797 | reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:28:07pm |
re: #796 Simply Sarah
Oh, no need for you to apologize. Looking back at what I wrote, it's all very awkward and unclear and I can very much see how it could be interpreted in the way you did. As I said, I need to really do a much better job with how I try to express myself.
:-)
798 | OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:30:58pm |
re: #789 Coracle
I would never go into an argument with a pro-lifer saying a fetus is a parasite. I would say it is parasitic, and if given the response you quote above would be happy to go into the details, and why those details mean it is the woman's right to do what she wants in the jurisdiction of her body.
I wouldn't, either, but for different reasons. It would depend on the general demeanor of the so-called "prolifer".
If they're just another worthless confederate pandering to me about "slavery" and "genocide" -- which is so often the case, these days -- they're just good for kicking around. The effort it takes to tell them to shove their personal morals right up their ass where it belongs might even be too much to expend.