Supreme Court Blocks Texas Neanderthal Sonogram Law

The Republican Party’s total war on women’s rights suffers a setback
US News • Views: 39,126

Today the Supreme Court told Texas not to enforce an unbelievably primitive GOP-sponsored law that requires women to undergo an invasive vaginal procedure before they can have a legal abortion: Supreme Court Blocks Texas Abortion/Sonogram Law.

The GOP’s embryo inspection device in action

The U.S. Supreme Court said Thursday that Texas can’t enforce an abortion/sonogram law passed by the state legislature last summer while the measure is under appeal, the Texas Tribune reports.

On Wednesday, the U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals refused to allow the law to go into effect while it was being appealed.

An Austin judge ruled that the parts of the law that required a doctor to display an ultrasound image, make the heartbeat audible and describe the fetus before terminating a pregnancy were unconstitutional.

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687 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:17:31pm

Good to see that the Supreme court isn't as far right as some (including me at times) fear ... I just hope they vote this liberally when Gay Marriage is put before them as well...

2 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:18:04pm

Amazing.

3 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:19:27pm

Kind of amazing that TX thought they could get away with that. Giant waste of bureaucratic time for this culture wars bullshit…

4 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:20:45pm
There is no basis for the state’s attempts to short-circuit the legal process by trying to nullify the court’s decision on an emergency basis,” said Julie Rikelman, senior staff attorney with the Center for Reproductive Rights.[Link: www.texastribune.org...]

No enforcement while the appeal happens. Does anyone say how long that will take?

5 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:23:13pm

re: #4 jaunte

There it is:

"...the appeal filed Tuesday could take up to a year."
[Link: www.nbcdfw.com...]

6 Kragar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:25:53pm

BLACK ROBED SHADOW CABAL LEGISLATING FROM THE BENCH!!!

///

7 bratwurst  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:27:29pm

How can we have people around here who endlessly tell us that we NEVER have to worry about the future of reproductive rights in this country when stuff like this is routinely popping up all over the place?!?

8 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:30:02pm

re: #7 bratwurst

How can we have people around here who endlessly tell us that we NEVER have to worry about the future of reproductive rights in this country when stuff like this is routinely popping up all over the place?!?

I would never say we no longer have to worry about the assault on women's reproductive rights in the USA.

9 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:30:18pm

re: #7 bratwurst

How can we have people around here who endlessly tell us that we NEVER have to worry about the future of reproductive rights in this country when stuff like this is routinely popping up all over the place?!?

Maybe Buck will grace this thread with his presence and explain it to us.

(I normally wouldn't call any Lizard in particular out about this, but he was just explaining to me how even though he is pro choice he doesn't bother voting for people based on their views on abortion since it isn't going anywhere)

10 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:31:02pm

Supremes 1
Texas Assholes 0
so far, so good

11 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:31:39pm
Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who is running for president, signed the law in May, saying it would save countless lives by discouraging women from getting abortions. About 81,000 abortions are performed every year in Texas. Perry and other conservatives called the ruling tragic and said it would result in the loss of hundreds of innocent lives.[Link: www.nbcdfw.com...]

It didn't work, Rick.
36 minutes ago...
rickklein tweets:

looong week in presidential politics. 7 days ago at this time, Rick Perry was just walking onto a debate stage...

12 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:32:29pm

"Nine oligarchs in robes." What kind of person seriously thinks putting Rick Perry in charge of nominating Supreme Court Justices is a good idea?

13 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:33:32pm

re: #7 bratwurst

How can we have people around here who endlessly tell us that we NEVER have to worry about the future of reproductive rights in this country when stuff like this is routinely popping up all over the place?!?

The supreme court said they can't enforce the sonogram measure while it's under appeal. Therefore, voting for rabid anti-choicers is perfectly safe and all you silly liberals are making a big fuss over nothing.

14 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:37:44pm

Well I'm not a woman see, so I have no idea how I'd feel about having a medically unnecessary sonowand shoved up one of my orifices by a power mad government!

//

15 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:37:50pm

re: #12 goddamnedfrank

"Nine oligarchs in robes." What kind of person seriously thinks putting Rick Perry in charge of nominating Supreme Court Justices is a good idea?

the Monks of St Justice vs the Tricorn Agents of God...now were gonna have the Internecine Super Bowl

16 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:40:35pm

re: #12 goddamnedfrank

"Nine oligarchs in robes." What kind of person seriously thinks putting Rick Perry in charge of nominating Supreme Court Justices is a good idea?

That's eight more authorities than there needs to be, obviously.//

17 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:41:51pm

re: #16 The Ghost of a Flea

That's eight more authorities than there needs to be, obviously.//

God is the Supreme Court

18 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:43:03pm

Why do we have to share the same planet with people this horrifically, willfully dumb? Why, God, why? 9_9

19 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:45:56pm

Nathan Schneider: "Occupy Wall Street: FAQ", The Nation

20 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:49:30pm

re: #18 publicityStunted

Why do we have to share the same planet with people this horrifically, willfully dumb? Why, God, why? 9_9

that would be me...I support the notion of AGW not because I understand the science, but because I have faith in others far smarter than me, so it's faith alone...people that deny AGW don't understand the science either and have their own faith....it's not good to make enemies of deniers....rather than insult them we need to gently work our way around them politically....but in this climate, that probably won't happen

21 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:49:39pm

"Listen up Little Miss Rape Victim, you were unlucky enough to get violated once, so what's one more time gonna hurt? You're already damaged goods, so spread 'em."
-The State of Texas

22 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:52:35pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

"Listen up Little Miss Rape Victim, you were unlucky enough to get violated once, so what's one more time gonna hurt? You're already damaged goods, so spread 'em." -The State of Texas

I just finished reading Grisham's "The Innocent Man"....for anybody on the fence about capital punishment, and the abuse of the justice system might consider reading this harrowing true story

23 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:52:46pm

re: #12 goddamnedfrank

What kind of person* seriously thinks putting Rick Perry in charge of nominating Supreme Court Justices is a good idea?

Here's a clip of Molly Ivins that includes some footage from the Texas legislature talking about whether or not to outlaw sodomy for everyone in the state.

..."Even if they're married?"
..."More especially if they're married. I can't believe anyone'd do that
if they was married."

*You'll see some of those people in action on the floor of the Texas statehouse.

Youtube Video
24 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:56:02pm

re: #23 jaunte

Here's a clip of Molly Ivins that includes some footage from the Texas legislature talking about whether or not to outlaw sodomy for everyone in the state.

*You'll see some of those people in action on the floor of the Texas statehouse.

[Video]

the Alamo was last month....
the Republic was last week....
statehood was yesterday....
Texans are so stupid, they invaded NM twice and couldn't whip us...
go figure

25 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:56:20pm

Now watch it, Charles...the RWNJs will be all apoplectic again with that "pornographic" pic you posted!

///

26 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:57:29pm

"You see that right there? Do you hear that heartbeat? That's a little bit of your rapist growing inside of you. Why would you want to abort something so wonderful? Aren't you glad we forced you to go through this procedure?"

"Nurse, the patient is gnawing through her restraints."

27 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:03:51pm

re: #18 publicityStunted

I would like to add that there's a huge, huge difference between people who are genuinely confused, and the willfully ignorant. How do you spot that difference? Easy - if you patiently explain the facts using language and terms that are accessible, genuinely confused people will modify their position accordingly. The willfully ignorant will ignore all evidence that contradicts their beliefs, and continue spouting their BS as if it had never been refuted at all.

Willfully ignorant global warming deniers are no better than 9/11 truthers, moon-landing-was-fakers, rabid anti-vaxxers and holocaust revisionists.

28 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:04:36pm

Obama sign...
'change me, I stink!'
gonna be a fun year for political junkies
[Link: www.wwltv.com...]

29 Kragar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:05:04pm

re: #25 talon_262

Now watch it, Charles...the RWNJs will be all apoplectic again with that "pornographic" pic you posted!

///

X ray, X-Rated, same difference

30 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:05:51pm

re: #27 publicityStunted

I would like to add that there's a huge, huge difference between people who are genuinely confused, and the willfully ignorant. How do you spot that difference? Easy - if you patiently explain the facts using language and terms that are accessible, genuinely confused people will modify their position accordingly. The willfully ignorant will ignore all evidence that contradicts their beliefs, and continue spouting their BS as if it had never been refuted at all.

Willfully ignorant global warming deniers are no better than 9/11 truthers, moon-landing-was-fakers, rabid anti-vaxxers and holocaust revisionists.

nobody trusts anybody...facts are like acorns lying all over the place

31 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:09:36pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

"Listen up Little Miss Rape Victim, you were unlucky enough to get violated once, so what's one more time gonna hurt? You're already damaged goods, so spread 'em."
-The State of Texas

And turn around and bend over for my counseling when I'm through with you!

/fucking con psychos, wtf

32 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:09:53pm

re: #18 publicityStunted

Why do we have to share the same planet with people this horrifically, willfully dumb? Why, God, why? 9_9

Because humans are basically a glorified herd that will only move to save their own hides in an event of an imminent threat.

I'm not God, but that's pretty much why.

33 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:13:12pm

re: #27 publicityStunted

I would like to add that there's a huge, huge difference between people who are genuinely confused, and the willfully ignorant. How do you spot that difference? Easy - if you patiently explain the facts using language and terms that are accessible, genuinely confused people will modify their position accordingly. The willfully ignorant will ignore all evidence that contradicts their beliefs, and continue spouting their BS as if it had never been refuted at all.

Willfully ignorant global warming deniers are no better than 9/11 truthers, moon-landing-was-fakers, rabid anti-vaxxers and holocaust revisionists.

I have an example of what willful ignorance looks like. My stepdad believes that the frequency absorption spectrum of a gas might be dependent entirely upon volume, not temperature or pressure induced phase change (making it not a gas anymore), just volume. This is how he gets around CO2 induced AGW. Now he's not stupid, we're talking about a man that holds a Ph.D in psychology, went to Bronx Science, is highly intelligent. He believes this simply because he wants to, he didn't learn it anywhere, he just made it up because it allows him to get around the following elementary level science experiment:

Youtube Video
34 NVAudiophile  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:13:59pm

I think what we have here is a spectacular lack of leadership on this issue, as well as on many others. Is it to much to ask politicians of both parties to lead rather than pander to their constituents? Regarding abortion, is it too unreasonable to view the abortion rate as a barometer on the availability of reproductive health services. I think driving down the abortion rate should be seen as a legitimate goal, and one that also improves outcomes for women who decide to have children through better access to prenatal and neonatal care. The real obstacle here are people who believe that life begins at fertilization, even before conception--hence the objection to IUDs and similar family planning methods.

35 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:14:08pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

"You see that right there? Do you hear that heartbeat? That's a little bit of your rapist growing inside of you. Why would you want to abort something so wonderful? Aren't you glad we forced you to go through this procedure?"

So what if it's your brother's child!

If God On High did not want it growing there, he would not have made you so attractive to your brother, at least some man wants you!

36 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:14:13pm

re: #32 laZardo

Because humans are basically a glorified herd that will only move to save their own hides in an event of an imminent threat.

I'm not God, but that's pretty much why.

and who is your shepherd?...you believe someone, who is it?...they obviously didn't make a solid case for Joe Stupid...why is that?...do you understand all the complex science or do you trust others?

37 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:15:46pm

This music I just ran across seems perfect to celebrate the win...

Youtube Video
38 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:18:51pm

re: #32 laZardo

Because humans are basically a glorified herd that will only move to save their own hides in an event of an imminent threat.

And sometimes not even that (see Texas, State of, where the response to horrific drought and wildfires is to cut the actual firefighting budget and pray for rain instead).

39 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:18:52pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Good to see that the Supreme court isn't as far right as some (including me at times) fear ... I just hope they vote this liberally when Gay Marriage is put before them as well...

I think with the precedents dating back to at least 1948, they will have to. They won't be able to citizens united themselves out of that issue.

40 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:21:20pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

"Listen up Little Miss Rape Victim, you were unlucky enough to get violated once, so what's one more time gonna hurt? You're already damaged goods, so spread 'em."
-The State of Texas

"What's that you say? You don't want this? Why would you not want a gift from God? Don't you see that this is his will? He's given you a little baby, which he expects you to cherish and nurture. Who are you to question God's will?"

41 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:22:07pm

re: #33 goddamnedfrank

I have an example of what willful ignorance looks like. My stepdad believes that the frequency absorption spectrum of a gas might be dependent entirely upon volume, not temperature or pressure induced phase change (making it not a gas anymore), just volume. This is how he gets around CO2 induced AGW.

Well that's depressing :( I wonder how he would dance and spin his way around ocean acidification.

42 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:23:00pm

Brb dinner.

In the meantime, Portalcat.

43 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:23:37pm

AGW has already lost the battle in the public domain...but it's picking up some steam again according to some polls I read...rather than give up and complain about it, we can legislate a comprehensive energy bill that will by it's very nature address the AGW issue, but it has to be framed in idea of national security...public opinion is too unrealiable regarding AGW but national security gets everybody's attention...it's worth a try if we can get elected legislators on board...how could they not?

44 freetoken  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:23:47pm

Let me go on record as defending Homo neanderthalensis against this slander of their character. They would not have treated their women like the patristic ideologues of Texas wish to do theirs.

45 dragonath  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:25:57pm

re: #41 publicityStunted

I remember reading about that a couple years ago. Scary stuff. I wonder if the ice melt is masking the worst of it.

46 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:26:13pm

re: #34 NVAudiophile

We're super lazer focused on job creation!!11

47 SpaceJesus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:27:30pm

the lone derp state

48 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:29:54pm

re: #44 freetoken

Let me go on record as defending Homo neanderthalensis against this slander of their character. They would not have treated their women like the patristic ideologues of Texas wish to do theirs.

The cruel stereotyping must end.

49 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:30:16pm

re: #38 publicityStunted

And sometimes not even that (see Texas, State of, where the response to horrific drought and wildfires is to cut the actual firefighting budget and pray for rain instead).

They're just praying to the wrong God, that's their problem. If they started sacrificing children to Tlaloc they'd have rain toot sweet.

re: #41 publicityStunted

Well that's depressing :( I wonder how he would dance and spin his way around ocean acidification.

I've tried, it goes nowhere. It's frustrating because he's a really nice, smart man who is also incredibly intellectually dishonest. He's almost immune from absorbing inconvenient facts and is convinced that everybody holds the same ideology before evidence outlook.

50 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:32:09pm

Is this Ron Perlman?

51 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:32:44pm

Sublime ~~ "Life is too short so love the one you got cuz you might get run over or you might be shot."

Youtube Video
52 NVAudiophile  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:33:15pm

re: #47 SpaceJesus

I've been in the lone star state for several weeks now on a consulting assignment. Scanning the AM stations has been an educational experience: God and guns, up and down the dial.

53 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:33:51pm

re: #43 albusteve

public opinion is too unrealiable regarding AGW but national security gets everybody's attention...it's worth a try if we can get elected legislators on board...how could they not?

National security? The troops? The GOP doesn't give a shit about them if it threatens the profits of their fossil fuel sponsors:

GOP’s Solyndra Witch-Hunt Halts Project to Employ Veterans Putting Solar Panels on Military Housing

SolarCity has said it would work to employ American veterans and family members for the 750 people needed to complete the project, showing that green jobs do indeed exist. The company has seen extraordinary growth in recent years. After starting in 2006 with just two people, SolarCity has added over 600 employees since 2006. And this latest project will again double the staff.

The conditional commitment for the so-called SolarStrong project was issued days after the Solyndra bankruptcy. It was a piece of good news after a drumbeat of bad developments in the weekend after the Solyndra story broke. Since then, however, the resulting investigation has added a slew of new documentation requirements, making it impossible for SolarCity to meet the deadlines imposed.

The GOP, who constantly whine about "job-killing regulations", prove they exist by creating them.*

*And yes, if the Dems don't aggressively point this out, they're guilty of being aiders and abetters of the GOP's evil stupidity.

54 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:34:59pm

re: #47 SpaceJesus

the lone derp state

Sadly, Texas is only one of the more advanced cases, because the GOP nationwide is working on varied efforts to enact a defacto ban on abortion. When they're not forcing women to submit to state-ordered violation in order to guilt-trip them with ultrasound images, they're trying to enact "heartbeat bills" that forbid abortions if a heartbeat can be detected. Others are trying to force women to undergo "counseling" before the state will sign off on the procedure.

This is all, of course, in concert with their efforts to close down groups like Planned Parenthood and make it exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, for abortion doctors to operate practices without either worrying about their license being taken away or their life being in constant danger.

55 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:37:21pm

re: #25 talon_262

Now watch it, Charles...the RWNJs will be all apoplectic again with that "pornographic" pic you posted!

///

I expect Charles will have a severe hit spike today, from rwnj using it as porn.

56 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:38:27pm

re: #54 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

From NPR, May 10:

Across the country, recently elected GOP lawmakers are pushing hard to get new abortion restrictions on the books. About 570 bills have been introduced in 48 states this year to restrict abortion, according to the Guttmacher Institute, which tracks the laws.
[Link: www.npr.org...]

57 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:39:12pm

re: #56 jaunte

From NPR, May 10:

Jobs, folks! Them ultrasound wands ain't gonna run themselves!

///(Am I the only one that can taste the bile?)

58 freetoken  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:39:23pm

More evidence of why mankind is not dealing with its problems - including climate change:

In Scramble for Land, Group Says, Company Pushed Ugandans Out

According to the company’s proposal to join a United Nations clean-air program, the settlers living in this area left in a “peaceful” and “voluntary” manner.

People here remember it quite differently.

“I heard people being beaten, so I ran outside,” said Emmanuel Cyicyima, 33. “The houses were being burnt down.”

Other villagers described gun-toting soldiers and an 8-year-old child burning to death when his home was set ablaze by security officers.

“They said if we hesitated they would shoot us,” said William Bakeshisha, adding that he hid in his coffee plantation, watching his house burn down. “Smoke and fire.”

According to a report released by the aid group Oxfam on Wednesday, more than 20,000 people say they were evicted from their homes here in recent years to make way for a tree plantation run by a British forestry company, emblematic of a global scramble for arable land.

[...]

59 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:44:12pm

re: #12 goddamnedfrank

"Nine oligarchs in robes." What kind of person seriously thinks putting Rick Perry in charge of nominating Supreme Court Justices is a good idea?

A bunch of evangelical wingnut assholes who could never vote for a Mormon.

60 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:47:07pm

re: #58 freetoken

More evidence of why mankind is not dealing with its problems - including climate change:

In Scramble for Land, Group Says, Company Pushed Ugandans Out

This seems more like a case of, even when people do deal with problems, they do it in a way that creates several more.

61 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:47:16pm

re: #52 NVAudiophile

I've been in the lone star state for several weeks now on a consulting assignment. Scanning the AM stations has been an educational experience: God and guns, up and down the dial.

I've lived in Texas my entire life. You couldn't pay me to listen to the AM stations here. Even when I worked in radio I avoided them like the plague. I don't need the agita.

62 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:47:41pm

Guttmacher Institute:

Abortion has become more concentrated among poor women

...
The growing concentration of abortion among women with incomes below the federal poverty line likely reflects a combination of factors. Between 2000 and 2008, the proportion of women in the overall population who were poor increased by 25%. And a Guttmacher study published in the Fall of 2009 showed that the deep economic recession may also have played a role, as financial concerns led more women to want to delay childbearing or limit the number of children they have.

So the sonogram law would have disproportionately affected poor women.
What a surprise.

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:48:32pm

re: #14 goddamnedfrank

Well I'm not a woman see, so I have no idea how I'd feel about having a medically unnecessary sonowand shoved up one of my orifices by a power mad government!

//

You've got other orifices. Use your imagination.

64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:48:46pm

re: #62 jaunte

Guttmacher Institute:

Abortion has become more concentrated among poor women

So the sonogram law would have disproportionately affected poor women.
What a surprise.

Anything to harass the most vulnerable women, possible.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:49:08pm

re: #17 albusteve

God is the Supreme Court

Well, it's the first day of Rosh Hashanah, so I won't say differently--but as Rabban Gamaliel liked to remind us, the law is not in Heaven.

66 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:49:16pm

re: #59 Lidane

A bunch of evangelical wingnut assholes who could never vote for a Mormon.

It's actually gotten kinda sad, the level of desperation the wingnuts have driven themselves to in order to avoid nominating Romney, probably their only real chance at getting back to the White House. They keep looking for the perfect candidate and continuing to fall short every time. They mooned over Huntsman, but he's not much better than Mittens. Then they hoped and prayed that Perry would strut in and save them. And now they're so desperate, they're even considering Herman Cain as a viable candidate. Wonder if it has something to do with Chris Christie, their latest "dream candidate" telling them in no uncertain terms that they're all a bunch of loons.

I've decided that this year's Republican primaries should go by the title "Waiting for Reagan," because that's what they seem to be resigned to doing: Hoping and praying that a new St. Ron rides in and saves them from the horrors of putting a "moderate" on the ticket next year.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:49:40pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

"You see that right there? Do you hear that heartbeat? That's a little bit of your rapist growing inside of you. Why would you want to abort something so wonderful? Aren't you glad we forced you to go through this procedure?"

"Nurse, the patient is gnawing through her restraints."

Oh, God.

68 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:50:06pm
John Constitution @JnConstitution is now following you (@Killg0reTr0ut).

No, thank you.

69 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:51:22pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

How 'bout @BillO'Rights?'

70 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:51:43pm

re: #69 jaunte

How 'bout @BillO'Rights?'

Is he O'Reilly's half-brother?

/

71 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:52:08pm

re: #70 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Is he O'Reilly's half-brother?

/

You can't explain that!

72 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:52:56pm

Milking the cash cow....

“This is a serious decision, and I’ve engaged in serious deliberations. So within the next 24 hours don’t look for me to make a decision,” she said, according to excerpts of an interview on Fox Business Network set to air tonight.

73 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:54:02pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Good to see that the Supreme court isn't as far right as some (including me at times) fear ... I just hope they vote this liberally when Gay Marriage is put before them as well...

The two are not that similar. This ruling is an absolute no-brainer. So I'll go out on a limb and say that it will have been a 9-0 decision if they took a vote.

When gay marriage comes before the court, the case will have to be argued. The court won't simply affirm some lower court decision.

And now, I've got to go check if my guess was right.

(apparently no vote was taken)

74 freetoken  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:56:05pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Milking the cash cow...

I'm sure someone could make a porn parody based on that title...

75 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:56:47pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

She laughed off a remark that her daughter Bristol made earlier in the day that Ms. Palin had made up her mind about whether to run for president. Ms. Palin said she texted her daughter, saying, “You remember, Bristol, what we talk about on the fishing boat stays on the fishing boat.” [Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Mommy Dearest.

76 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:58:44pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Milking the cash cow...

Running for POTUS would require actual accountability for things. Caribou Barbie doesn't want that.

She's just going to keep the rubes and idiots waiting as long as possible before she comes up with some kind of bullshit to explain why she's not running.

77 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:00:33pm

Len, "Steal My Sunshine":

Youtube Video
78 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:00:48pm

re: #75 jaunte

Mommy Dearest.

I read that last line and suddenly have Fredo's death scene from Godfather Part II running in my mind.

79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:03:30pm

re: #73 lostlakehiker

Whatever case is brought before the SCOTUS on same sex marriage, the anti's will have to successfully argue why hetero marriages and not same sex ones should enjoy special rights.

I wish them luck with that, because they will need it.

80 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:14:35pm

re: #79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They would have to argue how their rights are endangered. There is 0.00% proof of this.

81 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:15:04pm

re: #14 goddamnedfrank

Well I'm not a woman see, so I have no idea how I'd feel about having a medically unnecessary sonowand shoved up one of my orifices by a power mad government!

//

That sounds like it was directed at me.

Well, even so it was still a good day. I got a critical sale I'd been waiting for and got some good prospects. I need one more sale and I've got enough lined up to ensure I have a good-deal-better-than-even shot at getting it tomorrow. And management felt I'd done well, too. Yes, today was a good day.

82 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:17:22pm

The Daily Show is having fun with the pepper spraying officer with the help of Chris Meloni.

83 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:18:00pm

Recently fired HP CEO departs with more than $13M

Recently fired Hewlett-Packard CEO Leo Apotheker is walking away with more than $13 million in cash and stock as shareholders stew over a rocky reign that saw the technology company's market value plunge by nearly $40 billion in just 11 months.

84 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:20:04pm

re: #82 JasonA

The Daily Show is having fun with the pepper spraying officer with the help of Chris Meloni.

Jon Stewart depends on the NYPD to keep his apartment from being burned down around his ears. I do hope he remembers that.

85 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:20:06pm

re: #83 Amory Blaine

Recently fired HP CEO departs with more than $13M

And Leo wasn't even there for that long. What a waste of money.

And, not that I was a WebOS fan, they gave up way too fast. Never really serious in the first place.

86 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:23:44pm

re: #80 prairiefire

They would have to argue how their rights are endangered. There is 0.00% proof of this.

Yes. Or, put another way, they have to show why it's in the interest of the state to keep marriage limited to only those they approve of. That argument has consistently worked against them re: marriage and the state, since post WW2.

But hey, let them fight their latest lost cause..fine by me. /Schadenfreude

87 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:25:27pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Jon Stewart depends on the NYPD to keep his apartment from being burned down around his ears. I do hope he remembers that.

Are you suggesting that his criticism of this one commander's conduct reveals a negative opinion of the NYPD as a whole?

88 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:26:18pm

re: #87 JasonA

Are you suggesting that his criticism of this one commander's conduct reveals a negative opinion of the NYPD as a whole?

The thin blue line rings around the entire department. That's why OWS is demanding the resignation of the police chief as well.

89 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:27:21pm

re: #87 JasonA

Are you suggesting that his criticism of this one commander's conduct reveals a negative opinion of the NYPD as a whole?

No, it's just a somewhat hostile comment on what I see as Stewart's impudence. I take things very seriously so Stewart often grates on me.

90 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:27:51pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

No, it's just a somewhat hostile comment on what I see as Stewart's impudence. I take things very seriously so Stewart often grates on me.

Did you even see the piece in question?

91 Tigger2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:28:20pm

re: #28 albusteve

Obama sign...
'change me, I stink!'
gonna be a fun year for political junkies
[Link: www.wwltv.com...]

I cant begin to imagine what kind of signs will be put out depicting the Teabagger Taliban and their candidates..

92 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:30:27pm

re: #88 laZardo

The thin blue line rings around the entire department. That's why OWS is demanding the resignation of the police chief as well.

They can take those demands and shove them. The NYPD is going to ignore them and Mayor Bloomberg will support the NYPD. OWS can make lots of noise, but in the end all they will be is noise. If they cause any more trouble than noise, the NYPD will make them very sorry they did.

93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:36:47pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

impudence

lmao

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:38:22pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Jon Stewart depends on the NYPD to keep his apartment from being burned down around his ears. I do hope he remembers that.

The NYPD depend on social critics like Jon Stewart to keep them honest. I hope they remember THAT.

95 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:41:54pm

re: #90 JasonA

Did you even see the piece in question?

It was fairly mild.

96 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:42:22pm

re: #83 Amory Blaine

Recently fired HP CEO departs with more than $13M

I swear, love him or hate him, the only company that got it's money's worth out of an overpaid CEO was Apple. I have thanked The Lord, more than once, that he has no interest in political office.

97 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:45:18pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Jon Stewart depends on the NYPD to keep his apartment from being burned down around his ears. I do hope he remembers that.

Seriously?
That sounds like how a mob would operate..
Come on, man.

98 Olsonist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:46:38pm

Has the Daily Show even covered the Wall Street protests? News to me.

99 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:47:12pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

They can take those demands and shove them. The NYPD is going to ignore them and Mayor Bloomberg will support the NYPD. OWS can make lots of noise, but in the end all they will be is noise. If they cause any more trouble than noise, the NYPD will make them very sorry they did.

e_e

Can their dad kick his dad's ass, too?

100 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:47:30pm

re: #96 wlewisiii

I swear, love him or hate him, the only company that got it's money's worth out of an overpaid CEO was Apple. I have thanked The Lord, more than once, that he has no interest in political office.

Eric Schmidt too, I would say.

101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:48:46pm

re: #83 Amory Blaine

Recently fired HP CEO departs with more than $13M

Carly Fiorina canned 20K people and took home 21 million.

No wonder Meg wanted the job.

102 SpaceJesus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:50:17pm

re: #54 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

oh yeah. they want to change this nation into the united states of derp

103 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:50:33pm

re: #101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Carly Fiorina canned 20K people and took home 21 million.

No wonder Meg wanted the job.

I think turning HP around after these debacles might take a minor miracle.

104 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:51:30pm

I hate in when there is a vulva and pelvic floor featured on the front page. How about some testicles for once? Oh yeah, they're not under siege.

105 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:51:35pm

And after the lunacy we heard earlier in the day from Pamela Geller, here's a piece about Islam from a right of center author who has his head screwed on straight. No blanket condemnations here, just honest observation. The last part is especially good:

A few days after reading Le Soir, I happened to take a taxi from Welwyn Garden City—a town, about 20 miles north of London, built as a planned community in the 1920s—to Heathrow Airport.

The bearded driver was in full Muslim dress; he could have come from Pakistan, were it not that he spoke English that was obviously native. En route, his wife called him several times. She was a day trader, and asked his advice on her “positions.” He spoke in a technical language that I hardly understood. I asked him whether his wife had profited from the extreme volatility of the French banks (she made, in American currency, about $1,000 per week on average, which she used for her pocket money). He said that they did not buy bank shares for ethical reasons.

We talked of other things. I asked him about social problems in Welwyn Garden City (taxi drivers of small towns are often informative on these matters). He said that they were comparatively slight and then went on to describe small pockets of illegitimacy, dependency on social security, criminality, drug-taking, and drunkenness—what for him constituted British culture. Except that he took the part for the whole, his criticisms were precisely mine.

I mentioned that, not so long ago, people in Britain were extremely reluctant to take public charity: they found it humiliating and demeaning. My driver said that he had been unemployed a few years ago for two months, but had declined social welfare for precisely this reason. “They treat you like scum, you start to behave like scum,” he said. By the time we reached Heathrow, his wife had lost $4,000. He took it in good stride. “She made $10,000 on her best trade,” he said.

Integration, it seems, is not an all-or-nothing phenomenon. (Emphasis mine)

Of course for having dealt with a Muslim man as a human being and having tried to honestly depict him, Pamela Geller will no doubt denounce Theodore Dalrymple for "SUBMISSION TO ISLAM!!1".

106 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:51:56pm

OT, but it looks like I'm going to be switching banks soon:

Bank of America to charge $5 monthly debit card fee

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:51:59pm

re: #103 JasonA

I think turning HP around after these debacles might take a minor miracle.

My husband interviewed there at one point.

They were making so much from the ink that they could afford to have people who weren't actually doing anything productive.

He didn't take the job.

108 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:52:09pm

re: #104 prairiefire

I hate in when there is a vulva and pelvic floor featured on the front page. How about some testicles for once? Oh yeah, they're not under siege.

OUR BALLS ARE PRECIOUS!!1!

109 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:52:42pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

They can take those demands and shove them. The NYPD is going to ignore them and Mayor Bloomberg will support the NYPD. OWS can make lots of noise, but in the end all they will be is noise. If they cause any more trouble than noise, the NYPD will make them very sorry they did.

As mottoes go, I prefer "To Serve and Protect" to "Make Them Very Sorry They Did."

The latter kind of grinds your nose against the Weberian "We have the monopoly on legitimate violence, nyah-nyah-nyah" of it all.

110 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:53:09pm

re: #107 EmmmieG

My husband interviewed there at one point.

They were making so much from the ink that they could afford to have people who weren't actually doing anything productive.

He didn't take the job.

I wouldn't feel very secure in a position like that.

111 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:53:53pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Jon Stewart depends on the NYPD to keep his apartment from being burned down around his ears. I do hope he remembers that.

What a strange and hypocritical statement. I'm sure that Jon unconditionally supports the rights of public servants to unionize, and supports paying a disproportionately higher amount in taxes to help society, the police, courts & fire departments defend and insure his disproportionately greater wealth.

112 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:54:11pm

re: #103 JasonA

I think turning HP around after these debacles might take a minor miracle.

Fiorina really won the "Got Your Nerve" Award, 1- pulling a senatorial run after that fiasco, and 2- being John McCain's econ advisor.

Delusional cons, cripes....why in the world would these multi bajillionaires who make their money off the misery of others want a $175K/yr public service job, except to rig the game for themselves and their friends.

Hafta say, I did admire her for being so public about her struggle with cancer, and growing her hair out natural. I thought it looked kind of cute, actually.

113 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:54:16pm

re: #109 The Ghost of a Flea

As mottoes go, I prefer "To Serve and Protect" to "Make Them Very Sorry They Did."

The latter kind of grinds your nose against the Weberian "We have the monopoly on legitimate violence, nyah-nyah-nyah" of it all.

Dark's an authoritarian. It is what it is.

114 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:54:21pm

re: #104 prairiefire

I hate in when there is a vulva and pelvic floor featured on the front page. How about some testicles for once? Oh yeah, they're not under siege.

If somebody legislates jamming a sonogram wand into scrotums across the nation, I'm sure Charles will oblige.

115 SpaceJesus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:54:34pm

"derp derp derp derp all up in your vagina with our derp prod. derp derp derp"

-GOP everywhere

116 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:55:14pm

re: #114 The Ghost of a Flea

If somebody legislates jamming a sonogram wand into scrotums across the nation, I'm sure Charles will oblige.

Wow, I usually have to pay for that...

117 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:55:16pm

re: #103 JasonA

I think turning HP around after these debacles might take a minor miracle.

HP was dead the day they got conned into buying Carley's disasters at Compaq. The only real question has been who will put a bullet in the Zombie Company's head?

DEC & Compaq gone,
Lucent & HP shadows of yesteryear.

A toast - "To absent friends..."

118 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:55:28pm

re: #97 Varek Raith

Seriously?
That sounds like how a mob would operate..
Come on, man.

Not at all, I didn't mean it that way at all. What I meant is that the police are the critical force for keeping the forces of destruction and chaos in check in New York. They maintain the peace that let Jon Stewart live his life in safety. That was what I meant. Not like a mob at all.

119 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:56:48pm

re: #115 SpaceJesus

"derp derp derp derp all up in your vagina with our derp prod. derp derp derp"

-GOP everywhere

ALL YOUR WOMBS ARE BELONG TO US

120 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:58:08pm

re: #104 prairiefire

How about some testicles for once? Oh yeah, they're not under siege.

ALL THESE WIMMINZ WANT BIRTH CONTROL COVERED BY INSURANCE! Don't they know that's a threat to our testicular supremacy and the ability of our Viagra/Cialis enabled uber-sperm to do its job?!

121 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:58:24pm

re: #119 The Ghost of a Flea

ALL YOUR WOMBS ARE BELONG TO US

All your wombs? Most of us only have one.

My husband's stepmother had two. She didn't find out until she went into labor for the first time. Both had to contract.

I'm not kidding.

122 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:58:56pm

re: #109 The Ghost of a Flea

As mottoes go, I prefer "To Serve and Protect" to "Make Them Very Sorry They Did."

The latter kind of grinds your nose against the Weberian "We have the monopoly on legitimate violence, nyah-nyah-nyah" of it all.

Not just very sorry...very sorry!

State-sponsored punitive violence against the people who do the work and pay the taxes: authoritarians and totalitarians love.it.

123 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:59:17pm

re: #121 EmmmieG

All your wombs? Most of us only have one.

My husband's stepmother had two. She didn't find out until she went into labor for the first time. Both had to contract.

I'm not kidding.

Please don't give us more details...

124 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:00:16pm

re: #119 The Ghost of a Flea

ALL YOUR WOMB ARE BELONG TO US!!

Fixed. You have to have "womb" be singular in order to properly substitute it for "base".

/HA HA HA!!

125 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:00:31pm

re: #122 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Not just very sorry...very sorry!

State-sponsored punitive violence against the people who do the work and pay the taxes: authoritarians and totalitarians love.it.

Didn't you hear? 47% of us don't pay any taxes! It's open season!

126 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:00:41pm

re: #123 JasonA

Please don't give us more details...

I don't have any more.

However, honestly, given what is at the top of the page, it really can't get much worse.

127 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:02:00pm

re: #121 EmmmieG

All your wombs? Most of us only have one.

My husband's stepmother had two. She didn't find out until she went into labor for the first time. Both had to contract.

I'm not kidding.

Eek. That there has got to be a stunning discovery.

And you're right, it should be singular. I've failed to fully capture the atrocious grammar of the original badly-translated Japanese video game text.

128 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:02:18pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Not at all, I didn't mean it that way at all. What I meant is that the police are the critical force for keeping the forces of destruction and chaos in check in New York. They maintain the peace that let Jon Stewart live his life in safety. That was what I meant. Not like a mob at all.

Lol all these teeming ... somebody/whoevers ... clamoring at the gates to burn down Jon Stewart's house, which is so valiantly defended by the NYPD, just waiting in the wings to make them very sorry.

Where do you get these feverish fantasies from? lmao

129 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:02:26pm

re: #109 The Ghost of a Flea

As mottoes go, I prefer "To Serve and Protect" to "Make Them Very Sorry They Did."

The latter kind of grinds your nose against the Weberian "We have the monopoly on legitimate violence, nyah-nyah-nyah" of it all.

They are acting on that first motto. They are serving the city by maintaining order and protecting legitimate property rights. The "very sorry" part only comes up if protestors break the law. If they do not break the law, then they have nothing to worry about.

130 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:04:39pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

They are acting on that first motto. They are serving the city by maintaining order and protecting legitimate property rights. The "very sorry" part only comes up if protestors break the law. If they do not break the law, then they have nothing to worry about.

Except a face full of pepper spray.

131 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:04:50pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Congratulations!!

132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:04:55pm

re: #125 JasonA

Didn't you hear? 47% of us don't pay any taxes! It's open season!

Oh yeah! I forgot about them!

(I do wonder, though, how many of that 47% has already spent their entire professional lives paying taxes and are now retired. I don't think the silly confederates informing us all of this statistic have ever answered. / )

133 freetoken  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:05:07pm

Best crop circle yet.


Interstellar aliens are no doubt trying to send a message to Congress to fund an extension to the Kepler mission.

134 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:06:03pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

They are acting on that first motto. They are serving the city by maintaining order and protecting legitimate property rights. The "very sorry" part only comes up if protestors break the law. If they do not break the law, then they have nothing to worry about.

What law was being broken that warranted the macing of unarmed, nonthreatening women who weren't then arrested?

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:06:08pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

They are acting on that first motto. They are serving the city by maintaining order and protecting legitimate property rights. The "very sorry" part only comes up if protestors break the law. If they do not break the law, then they have nothing to worry about.

Thanks for elucidating the mentality behind Nelson Mandela being a "criminal". e_e

136 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:06:29pm

Speaking of cops, Occupy Seattle is going to hold a planning-ish event of sorts at a plaza near my current place of residence on Saturday.

Should I go?

137 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:06:55pm

re: #130 JasonA

Except a face full of pepper spray.

And the police contend that those protestors were violating the law. The protestors dispute this, so it comes down to who you believe.

138 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:07:05pm

re: #101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Carly Fiorina canned 20K people and took home 21 million.

No wonder Meg wanted the job.

Who WOULDN'T want that job?
PLUS, no one lasts long!
BONUS!

139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:08:30pm

re: #134 goddamnedfrank

What law was being broken that warranted the macing of unarmed, nonthreatening women who weren't then arrested?

Gateway drugs, you know. First they're carrying pickets about ripoff artists on Wall Street. Next, they're burning down Jon Stewart's house!

Something simply must be done!!!

/ < - why I even bothered, I don't know

140 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:08:36pm

re: #136 laZardo

Speaking of cops, Occupy Seattle is going to hold a planning-ish event of sorts at a plaza near my current place of residence on Saturday.

Should I go?

Yes, go. I lived downtown during the 1999 WTO protests and spent most of the day photographing and filming the craziness. It was an unforgettable experience.

141 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:08:38pm

re: #136 laZardo

I don't know, do you want to occupy Seattle?

142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:09:37pm

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

And the police contend that those protestors were violating the law.

So?

143 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:09:53pm

re: #136 laZardo

Speaking of cops, Occupy Seattle is going to hold a planning-ish event of sorts at a plaza near my current place of residence on Saturday.

Should I go?

Why would you want to?

144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:10:41pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Why would you want to?

To educate oneself on the issue? Why not?

145 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:11:59pm

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

And the police contend that those protestors were violating the law. The protestors dispute this, so it comes down to who you believe.

If they were violating the law why weren't they arrested? The explanation given defies all credulity.

146 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:12:03pm

re: #140 goddamnedfrank

Yes, go. I lived downtown during the 1999 WTO protests and spent most of the day photographing and filming the craziness. It was an unforgettable experience.

I'm thinking more participating rather than just simply making a "[Laz's First Name] Occupies Seattle" thing for my Facebook though. I'm worried I might run into too many twoofers.

147 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:12:42pm

re: #136 laZardo

Speaking of cops, Occupy Seattle is going to hold a planning-ish event of sorts at a plaza near my current place of residence on Saturday.

Should I go?

Yes.

Stay miles away from any a-holes running around in black masks, though. They are provocateurs, and the excuse conservative and other totalitarians use to justify locking up entire swaths of people.

148 Ghazicide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:15:37pm

re: #147 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yes.

Stay miles away from any a-holes running around in black masks, though. They are provocateurs, and the excuse conservative and other totalitarians use to justify locking up entire swaths of people.

Band Name: Black Mask A-Holes

149 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:16:09pm

re: #146 laZardo

I'm thinking more participating rather than just simply making a "[Laz's First Name] Occupies Seattle" thing for my Facebook though. I'm worried I might run into too many twoofers.

I organized my friends into a mini media enterprise. I called the police up beforehand and asked them out to get press credentials, they said organizations print their own so I made badges, brought everyone lab goggles and particulate masks for the gas, had a DAT recorder and a Canon video camera. We got interviews, used our badges to get through police lines, and generally had a great time.

150 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:16:39pm

re: #145 goddamnedfrank

If they were violating the law why weren't they arrested? The explanation given defies all credulity.

They're "agitators."

151 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:16:48pm

re: #146 laZardo

I'm thinking more participating rather than just simply making a "[Laz's First Name] Occupies Seattle" thing for my Facebook though. I'm worried I might run into too many twoofers.

I would have gone to today's in SF, for just that reason, to take pictures and document. But I did not find out about it in time. Those things stopped appealing to me on a personal level years ago.

152 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:17:15pm

re: #148 BigPapa

Band Name: Black Mask A-Holes

Blac Bloc Buttholes?

153 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:17:18pm

re: #147 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yes.

Stay miles away from any a-holes running around in black masks, though. They are provocateurs, and the excuse conservative and other totalitarians use to justify locking up entire swaths of people.

True, the Black Bloc gutter punks are trouble.

154 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:19:12pm

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

I organized my friends into a mini media enterprise. I called the police up beforehand and asked them out to get press credentials, they said organizations print their own so I made badges, brought everyone lab goggles and particulate masks for the gas, had a DAT recorder and a Canon video camera. We got interviews, used our badges to get through police lines, and generally had a great time.

Someone who knows how to organize a protest, in the post-Civil Rights/post-clinic defense era.

If anything were to happen to you, though, count on the cons here to tell you you deserve whatever the cops shove down your throat.

155 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:19:13pm

re: #147 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yes.

Stay miles away from any a-holes running around in black masks, though. They are provocateurs, and the excuse conservative and other totalitarians use to justify locking up entire swaths of people.

Um, that kinda sounds like fun.
But maybe, it's just me?

156 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:20:30pm

re: #153 goddamnedfrank

True, the Black Bloc gutter punks are trouble.

Quite Concur.

But I don't understand why one would want to participate in such an "occupy" event in the first place. I might observe one, by why would you want to do it. They seem pointless to me.

157 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:21:17pm

re: #154 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Someone who knows how to organize a protest, in the post-Civil Rights/post-clinic defense era.

If anything were to happen to you, though, count on the cons here to tell you you deserve whatever the cops shove down your throat.

Yeah, the anti-protest crew was swinging for the fences in the last thread.

You'd have thought the OWS crowd had rocket launchers and was blowing up buildings or something.

158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:21:52pm

re: #155 Floral Giraffe

Um, that kinda sounds like fun.
But maybe, it's just me?

Nah, around here they are out-of-towner punks who show up to discredit protests by smashing windows, generally shrieking vague "rebellion is cute and trendy" slogans, and distracting from whatever the issue is supposed to be. To some degree it's worked, but people have been on to them for years.

159 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:22:41pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

But I don't understand why one would want to participate in such an "occupy" event in the first place. I might observe one, by why would you want to do it. They seem pointless to me.

You don't have to participate.

160 Ghazicide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:23:18pm

re: #158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Nah, around here they are out-of-towner punks who show up to discredit protests by smashing windows, generally shrieking vague "rebellion is cute and trendy" slogans, and distracting from whatever the issue is supposed to be. To some degree it's worked, but people have been on to them for years.

Tea Party plants!

161 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:24:05pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

But I don't understand why one would want to participate in such an "occupy" event in the first place. I might observe one, by why would you want to do it. They seem pointless to me.

Oh yeah, that's right. We're talking to someone who doesn't even try to empathize with other people or understand them. Anything that seems pointless to you is better off not being done I guess.

162 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:26:14pm

re: #154 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Someone who knows how to organize a protest, in the post-Civil Rights/post-clinic defense era.

If anything were to happen to you, though, count on the cons here to tell you you deserve whatever the cops shove down your throat.

The thing is we weren't protesting, the intent was to be a kind of prototype digital citizen media. Months beforehand when the conference was announced I just knew it was going to be an epic scene that me and my friends would regret missing out on. IndyMedia grew out of dozens of different groups organizing and expressing those same thoughts, it ended up much less impartial and more activist than anybody in my group wanted at the time. In the end it was about sharing an experience, most of our material was never published.

163 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:26:28pm

re: #157 makeitstop

Yeah, the anti-protest crew was swinging for the fences in the last thread.

You'd have thought the OWS crowd had rocket launchers and was blowing up buildings or something.

Yeah, I saw that stupid b.s. Demonstrations of non-conformity really threatens them. It reminds them they do not have to be conformists, themselves.

164 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:28:23pm

re: #162 goddamnedfrank

Ah. I misunderstood.

Well, IndyMedia got unwieldy for a minute there. But I remember the beginnings of it, very well. Ahead of its time for its day.

165 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:29:06pm

youtube wants me to know that I could watch Keisha streaming RIGHT NOW.

*crickets*

Have you heard Allison Krauss & Union Station's new album?

166 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:32:04pm

re: #161 JasonA

Oh yeah, that's right. We're talking to someone who doesn't even try to empathize with other people or understand them. Anything that seems pointless to you is better off not being done I guess.

Ehh, just threaten those with whom you can't/won't empathize with state-sponsored violence, or just state-sponsored death.

Since that's always worked so well for conservatives in America. /// e_e

167 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:32:44pm

re: #163 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, I saw that stupid b.s. Demonstrations of non-conformity really threatens them. It reminds them they do not have to be conformists, themselves.

I had to bail from the thread. The pining for the days when riot cops really swung those clubs (because someone was late for work once due to a demonstration, apparently) started creeping me out.

168 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:37:26pm

re: #167 makeitstop

I had to bail from the thread. The pining for the days when riot cops really swung those clubs (because someone was late for work once due to a demonstration, apparently) started creeping me out.

Ugh. I can't figure out whether it's loads and loads of impotent rage behind this kind of totalitarian conservatism, or just the emotional intelligence level of pre-schoolers.

Heaven forbid it's some toxic mix of both. Nauseating.

169 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:38:04pm

re: #161 JasonA

Oh yeah, that's right. We're talking to someone who doesn't even try to empathize with other people or understand them. Anything that seems pointless to you is better off not being done I guess.

That's low. I try to understand this pack, but I cannot. What are they trying to accomplish? The point of taking action is to accomplish a goal, is it not? So far all I hear from them is insensate anger.

170 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:39:21pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

That's low. I try to understand this pack, but I cannot. What are they trying to accomplish? The point of taking action is to accomplish a goal, is it not? So far all I hear from them is insensate anger.

Ahem.

171 Jimmi the Grey  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:40:09pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Jon Stewart depends on the NYPD to keep his apartment from being burned down around his ears. I do hope he remembers that.

[ Fat Tony ] Nice apartment youse gots there Mr. Stewert. Be a shame were anything untoward to happens to it. [ / Fat Tony ]

172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:43:13pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

The point of taking action is to accomplish a goal, is it not?

Perhaps the goal is to simply draw attention to a particular issue. In that much, they have succeeded.

It's allowed.

173 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:44:50pm

I'm sorry but I'm fading too badly to continue. I "left it all on the floor" at work today and now I'm exhausted.

Good night, all.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:46:08pm

re: #146 laZardo

I'm thinking more participating rather than just simply making a "[Laz's First Name] Occupies Seattle" thing for my Facebook though. I'm worried I might run into too many twoofers.

Well, my suggestion would be to go and see, and also to make your voice heard. You may yet run into too many twoofers, and have to go elsewhere, but it will also do the organizers good to hear "I'm interested in this...but I don't like twoofers."

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:47:10pm

re: #155 Floral Giraffe

Um, that kinda sounds like fun.
But maybe, it's just me?

Black Bloc is bad news. No respect for anyone or anything.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:48:32pm

re: #173 Dark_Falcon

I'm sorry but I'm fading too badly to continue. I "left it all on the floor" at work today and now I'm exhausted.

Good night, all.

Night.

177 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:49:31pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

Black Bloc is bad news. No respect for anyone or anything.

Just did a Google search on them. Pretty sure that put me on some kind of list...

178 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:50:10pm

re: #172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Perhaps the goal is to simply draw attention to a particular issue. In that much, they have succeeded.

It's allowed.

Worthless, but allowed.

As I saw mentioned elsewhere here today, it really only matters if the protesters are 100% pure in their non-violence and the bad guys beat them up anyway. March 7, 1965 for example.

"you say you want a revolution, well... "

179 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:50:40pm

re: #173 Dark_Falcon

I'm sorry but I'm fading too badly to continue. I "left it all on the floor" at work today and now I'm exhausted.

Good night, all.

Take care, sir.

180 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:51:31pm

re: #178 wlewisiii

Worthless, but allowed.

As I saw mentioned elsewhere here today, it really only matters if the protesters are 100% pure in their non-violence and the bad guys beat them up anyway. March 7, 1965 for example.

"you say you want a revolution, well... "

Have there been any confirmed instances of officers being assaulting? Not trying to make a point with that, just asking an honest question.

181 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:52:37pm

Have to share, sorry guy lizards:

Another is one of my own invention that I call “Stuff It, Barbara Ehrenreich.” For years, I was afraid to hire domestic help, because Barbara Ehrenreich wrote in Nickel and Dimed that to have a Third World woman scrub your toilets is to oppress a fellow sister. But now that I can afford it, and I’ve come out of denial over the fact that to have a house cleaned professionally is unbelievably fantastic, once every three weeks, I bring in Marta—whom I refer to sometimes as Marta, and sometimes, baldly, as “the maid”—and when I do so, I silently flip Barbara Ehrenreich the finger. I’m (just about) 50!

A third, related, survival tip is to have no shame. The middle-aged women I know, clawing their way one day at a time through this passage, have no rules—they glue themselves together with absolutely anything they can get their hands on. They do estrogen cream, progesterone biocompounds, vaginal salves, coffee in the morning, big sandwiches at lunch. They drink water all day, they work out twice a week, hard, with personal trainers. They take Xanax to get over the dread of seeing their personal trainers, they take Valium to settle themselves before the first Chardonnay of happy hour. They may do with just a half a line of coke before a very small martini, while knitting and doing some crosswords. If there are cigarettes and skin dryness, there are also collagen and Botox, and the exhilaration of flaming an ex on Facebook. And finally, as another woman friend of mine counseled with perfect sincerity and cheer: “Just gain the 25 pounds. I really think I would not have survived menopause—AND the death of my mother—without having gained these 25 pounds.”

ROTFLAMO

How is everyone?

182 windsagio  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:52:48pm

re: #180 JasonA

if I read you right, police assaulting people always turns out to be justified (by police review boards, of course)

183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:52:54pm

re: #177 JasonA

Just did a Google search on them. Pretty sure that put me on some kind of list...

This is interesting - I remember the news, didn't know it showed up in wikipedia

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Police infiltration

Police and security services have infiltrated black blocs with undercover officers. Since all members conceal their identities, it is harder to recognize infiltrators. Allegations first surfaced after several demonstrations. At the 2001 G8 summit in Genoa, amongst the many complaints about the police [21] there was mention of video footage in which "men in black were seen getting out of police vans near protest marches."[22] In August 2007, Quebec police admitted that "their officers disguised themselves as demonstrators." On these occasions, some were identified by genuine protesters because of their police-issue footwear.[23][24]

A-holes.

184 windsagio  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:54:21pm

re: #183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There's an old story or cartoon or something (sadly I can't remember which) where there's a communist party meeting in the '50s and they suddenly realize that everyone is an infiltrator for some government or press organization.

185 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:55:30pm

re: #182 windsagio

if I read you right, police assaulting people always turns out to be justified (by police review boards, of course)

Ummm... I was really just asking that particular question. Not making any conclusions based on whatever the answer might be.

186 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:57:18pm

re: #178 wlewisiii

Worthless, but allowed.

As I saw mentioned elsewhere here today, it really only matters if the protesters are 100% pure in their non-violence and the bad guys beat them up anyway. March 7, 1965 for example.

"you say you want a revolution, well... "

That statement stunned me. One of many things in that thread that did so.

187 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:57:33pm

re: #184 windsagio

There's an old story or cartoon or something (sadly I can't remember which) where there's a communist party meeting in the '50s and they suddenly realize that everyone is an infiltrator for some government or press organization.

Actually, according to the myth, it was 4 infiltrators out of 5 members :D

The really funny bit from that era? How do you tell who is from the FBI? They're the only ones that actually paid their dues...

I knew a lot of red diaper babies. They made (still make) life quite difficult for democratic socialists in America.

188 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:59:34pm

re: #172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Perhaps the goal is to simply draw attention to a particular issue. In that much, they have succeeded.

It's allowed.

Unfortunately, or perhaps not, the issue they have drawn attention to is not the one they intended; but perhaps it points the same way.

We are talking about Wall Street, aren't we?

189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:00:10pm

re: #178 wlewisiii

Worthless, but allowed.

As I saw mentioned elsewhere here today, it really only matters if the protesters are 100% pure in their non-violence and the bad guys beat them up anyway. March 7, 1965 for example.

Well, nobody is 100% pure anything, though I'm still not clear on where OWS have been violent. Every movement has its flaws and f'ed up people.

One of the critiques of SCLC in Selma was that they just stormed through, then left. Anyone who has been to Selma recently can see what they mean...parts of the poorest parts of town -- no need to state the demographics of that part of town -- the boards on the boarded up buildings are rotting off, that's how neglected parts of Lowndes County still are.

But then, this is why I disagree with OWS comparing themselves to "Arab Srping". We've had one of those...lasted about a decade, not just a spring. I really don't think people are trained for something like what Civil Rights or AIDS activism dealt with. Hope I'm wrong; hope we don't ever have to find out.

190 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:01:18pm

re: #187 wlewisiii

Actually, according to the myth, it was 4 infiltrators out of 5 members :D

The really funny bit from that era? How do you tell who is from the FBI? They're the only ones that actually paid their dues...

I knew a lot of red diaper babies. They made (still make) life quite difficult for democratic socialists in America.

In Seattle, I guess I'm more familiar with the "Anarcho-socialism" variety. Where's that term come from though?

191 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:02:38pm

Well, you can definitely say the US Ambassador to Syria has now heard both sides of the issue there...

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:03:49pm

re: #184 windsagio

There's an old story or cartoon or something (sadly I can't remember which) where there's a communist party meeting in the '50s and they suddenly realize that everyone is an infiltrator for some government or press organization.

"There's no one sure but we and thee, and we're not sure of thee."

193 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:04:25pm

re: #189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Understood. I am, actually, agreeing with you.

No, no-one is 100%. But the TV footage from that day was as close to perfect as could have been imagined and that's the kind of thing too many American's want out of every protest since. And once you accept how many shades of grey there are in all of us, that get's a little painful...

194 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:05:55pm

re: #191 laZardo

Well, you can definitely say the US Ambassador to Syria has now heard both sides of the issue there...

Maddow did a segment on him tonight. Called him the "Ambad-assador."

MSNBC Video
195 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:07:06pm

re: #190 laZardo

In Seattle, I guess I'm more familiar with the "Anarcho-socialism" variety. Where's that term come from though?

Back in the 40's & 50's there where a fair number of communists and communist sympathizers (some even like the right wing were scared of :D ) and they had summer camps and schools and so forth for their children. By the end of the 60's they had taken to calling themselves "red diaper babies" - their parents were so far left that even the diapers they shit and pissed in were blood red.

196 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:07:42pm

re: #191 laZardo

Protip to all nations:

Egging another nation's embassy officials only serves piss off said nation. It is never good to do, especially when your government needs help because your people fed up with your shit.

Too bad many of the aggressor nations in NATO are too exhausted for intervention. Apparently, NATO can only sustain 1 intervention every 2-5 years.

197 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:07:57pm

Okay, I'm definitely of the opinion that everyone should give Spotify a shot after trying it out today. And I haven't even paid for it for the mobile version yet.

198 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:08:26pm

re: #194 JasonA

Maddow did a segment on him tonight. Called him the "Ambad-assador."

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Excuse me, Mr. Assad, but you would mind explaining these dead, mutilated teenagers? No, that's okay, I've got all day.

199 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:08:34pm

re: #197 JasonA

Okay, I'm definitely of the opinion that everyone should give Spotify a shot after trying it out today. And I haven't even paid for it for the mobile version yet.

Is it as fun as Skee-ball?

200 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:10:23pm

re: #199 ggt

Is it as fun as Skee-ball?

Of course not. Don't be ridiculous...

201 windsagio  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:11:47pm

re: #196 ProLifeLiberal

in fairness, a lot of the countries involved have some other stuff to worry about right now.

Military spending helps the economy, but its pure hell on the budget!

202 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:11:56pm

re: #196 ProLifeLiberal

Protip to all nations:

Egging another nation's embassy officials only serves piss off said nation. It is never good to do, especially when your government needs help because your people fed up with your shit.

Too bad many of the aggressor nations in NATO are too exhausted for intervention. Apparently, NATO can only sustain 1 intervention every 2-5 years.

Russia has a Navy base in Syria. That's not going to escalate well. ;p

203 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:13:31pm

re: #202 laZardo

Russia has a Navy base in Syria. That's not going to escalate well. ;p

Yeah, I've been of the opinion for a while now that the Syrians are on their own.

204 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:15:43pm

re: #203 JasonA

Yeah, I've been of the opinion for a while now that the Syrians are on their own.

They seem to want it that way.

205 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:16:42pm

re: #203 JasonA

Yeah, I've been of the opinion for a while now that the Syrians are on their own.

Ideally, the revolutionaries in those nations should all be "on their own" in terms of foreign influence, whether America influencing Bahrain, or Russia influencing Syria.

206 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:17:36pm

re: #193 wlewisiii

Understood. I am, actually, agreeing with you.

No, no-one is 100%. But the TV footage from that day was as close to perfect as could have been imagined and that's the kind of thing too many American's want out of every protest since. And once you accept how many shades of grey there are in all of us, that get's a little painful...

Yeah, I find them to be traumatic to watch. If anyone has known anyone who was in early-mid 60s SNCC or CORE (I've known a couple - profs), let's just say there is no consensus on whether or not having a bunch of stupid confeds dump coffee or put out cigarettes on you for sitting at a lunch counter or getting on an integrated bus was worth it, even knowing how their work contributed to the gains of so many.

Look at what happened to Shirley Sherrod, who was a product of the Albany Movement, which her husband lead. I'll NEVER forgive the Obama administration for how they treated her.

I know what you mean about what Americans expect out of protests. At least, I see it as a weird sort of porn/gratification complex, especially among people who have never had to struggle for anything, themselves. There is a whole contingent of people itching to see cops beat protester's heads in for any pretext, and there are people naive and totally unschooled in how to deal with it. Potentially bad situation.

207 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:22:55pm

re: #27 publicityStunted

I would like to add that there's a huge, huge difference between people who are genuinely confused, and the willfully ignorant. How do you spot that difference? Easy - if you patiently explain the facts using language and terms that are accessible, genuinely confused people will modify their position accordingly. The willfully ignorant will ignore all evidence that contradicts their beliefs, and continue spouting their BS as if it had never been refuted at all.

Willfully ignorant global warming deniers are no better than 9/11 truthers, moon-landing-was-fakers, rabid anti-vaxxers and holocaust revisionists.

They're better than the last group, because the last group is worse. Those revisionists' real agenda is to kill the Jews Hitler missed. That's evil, raw and sulfurous.

The denialists' agenda is to get rich in the here and now, or to avoid paying even a modest price in the here and now (depending where they stand on the economic totem pole) and let the future sort itself out. They might imagine that geoengineering will save the day. They might imagine that it wouldn't be all that bad. They might think that everybody's lying and so they'll just pursue their own interests like everybody else.

You cannot say with surety that they really expect things to be all that bad, and are deliberately working to that end. It's a mistake to impute demonic motives to people when other explanations, more innocent, are available if you take a charitable view of the facts.

It's a tactical mistake, and it's a moral mistake. You inflame and embitter your heart against people who are not necessarily mortal enemies deserving of annihilation. And you inflame them against you, and make your own side's political challenge that much more difficult.

208 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:24:20pm

re: #191 laZardo

Well, you can definitely say the US Ambassador to Syria has now heard both sides of the issue there...

He is not actually an ambassador yet.

The Republican have not yet confirmed him as such, since he was appointed by President Obama.

209 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:25:00pm

I have to sleep.

Have fun this morning all!

210 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:26:08pm

re: #201 windsagio

True, but Norway, who isn't having issues, is at a very low level of readiness if something were to come up unexpectedly. They put their all into Libya.

Denmark and the UK are in the same boat.

I know France can go a few more rounds, along us, Canada, and Sweden.

I'm not sure about the other aggressor nations though, like Spain, Italy, Greece, Belgium.

If Turkey ended up dealing with a Genghis Gambit from Syria, NATO would be in major trouble.

211 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:26:17pm

re: #206 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

212 windsagio  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:27:33pm

re: #210 ProLifeLiberal

hrm, is there any particular reason you're using the term 'aggressor nations?' or is it just common and I"m out of the loop again?

~random post from the other discussion:

Youtube Video
213 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:28:38pm

Ok, this didn't show up in my last comment as far as I can see. Can anyone else see this in #211?

"Bingo.

I have both lead peace marches and served in the military. This confuses people, to put it mildly. Leftists even more than right wingers though decent ones like DF (and yes, he is. If we keep working him correctly, he will grow.) are bothered most of all. Throw in my leftwing Christianity and I get all kinds of "WTF??" from people."

214 windsagio  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:29:22pm

re: #213 wlewisiii

you can edit now, check your tags.

215 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:31:59pm

re: #214 windsagio

you can edit now, check your tags.

Clock done me in.

I did go back and look before that and didn't see what got me. Curious. I'll have to watch and see If I can manage it again.

That said, it's time for me to splat. The Boss has much planned as a Date for my Birthday tomorrow. Hopefully we'll have fun with it :D

216 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:33:53pm

re: #178 wlewisiii

Worthless, but allowed.

As I saw mentioned elsewhere here today, it really only matters if the protesters are 100% pure in their non-violence and the bad guys beat them up anyway. March 7, 1965 for example.

"you say you want a revolution, well... "

Setting aside the "worthless" component of that statement for a moment:

Bluntly and brutally, those inclined to thuggish authoritarian action have learned the lesson about "it only matter if they're 100% pure in their non-violence" very, very well. So well they have a fully fleshed-out system of excuses for acts of brutality. And not just cops--bodyguards, private security, too--the guys who want hit something know exactly what to say to justify their violence.

Pepper spray and tasers have made this worse, since they're technically "non-lethal"--which means you finds vicious (and cowardly!) dumb-asses spam-using them with minimal or no provocation.

Edited to add: Stepped away for a moment there and a bunch of stuff changed in the conversation. While I won't delete this comment, I'm stressing that I'm not really disagreeing with anyone

217 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:36:50pm

...or coming after anyone because I think they're pro-hurting protestors.

Is how that comment should have ended.

218 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:37:29pm

re: #215 wlewisiii

Clock done me in.

I did go back and look before that and didn't see what got me. Curious. I'll have to watch and see If I can manage it again.

That said, it's time for me to splat. The Boss has much planned as a Date for my Birthday tomorrow. Hopefully we'll have fun with it :D

And many more~

Nighty!

219 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:40:33pm

re: #216 The Ghost of a Flea

And not just cops--bodyguards, private security, too--the guys who want hit something know exactly what to say to justify their violence.

I have always tended to believe in the old idea for capital punishment that if one advocates for someone to be executed and later that person is found to be innocent (executed or not) then the first should suffer that same level of punishment. I see no difference here.

220 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:42:55pm

re: #210 ProLifeLiberal

True, but Norway, who isn't having issues, is at a very low level of readiness if something were to come up unexpectedly. They put their all into Libya.

Denmark and the UK are in the same boat.

I know France can go a few more rounds, along us, Canada, and Sweden.

I'm not sure about the other aggressor nations though, like Spain, Italy, Greece, Belgium.

If Turkey ended up dealing with a Genghis Gambit from Syria, NATO would be in major trouble.

I'm not clear on this...but if you're saying that Syria could give Turkey a lot of trouble if it came to war, I'd have to disagree. Turkey rates to be worlds better at war than Syria. In Syria, the officer corps will have been chosen mainly for loyalty. And even at that, its loyalty turns out to be flexible. Good thing, but there it is.

In Turkey, the military is more nearly professional.

Turkey, but not Syria, has served a period of German tutelage.

Turkey, but not Syria, is a NATO member, and has learned something about war, judging from the result of her Cyprus invasion.

Turkey can't lose because a long stretch of mountainous terrain separates her Syrian border from her vitals. Syria...you get the picture.

And if Turkey needed any help, NATO could provide, without any real difficulty, air superiority fighter assistance that would quickly sweep the Syrian air force from the skies, leaving the Turks, and only the Turks, with tactical air support.

Your term "aggressor nations" is rather loaded. The government of Libya has no complaint with Sweden, France, etc. The people of Libya have no complaint. What nation, and what people, have been wronged? And if you will answer, Gaddafi, I will say, he is not, himself, a nation.

221 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:44:29pm

re: #213 wlewisiii

Ok, this didn't show up in my last comment as far as I can see. Can anyone else see this in #211?

"Bingo.

I have both lead peace marches and served in the military. This confuses people, to put it mildly. Leftists even more than right wingers though decent ones like DF (and yes, he is. If we keep working him correctly, he will grow.) are bothered most of all. Throw in my leftwing Christianity and I get all kinds of "WTF??" from people."

Eh, DF is a grown man; he can grow, or stagnate, just like anyone.

All I can say is, you need more leftist friends! ones who aren't so ignorant about the complexities of the world lol. People have bought into the rwnj lie that the rwnj social reactionaries speak for all Christianity. They don't. Usually after a couple conversations with moi, people's mentality on that has to shift. :D

Before I left the beliefs completely, I spent quite a bit of time on the "Christian left" - almost converted to Anglicanism because of it. Besides, without the Christian left, there would be no Civil Rights movement as we know it.

Glenn Beck is right to be running so scared of "social justice" churches. They.kick.butt.

222 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:44:32pm

Gotta shower. In the meantime, remember that one Onion video?

223 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:46:59pm

re: #220 lostlakehiker

I'm not clear on this...but if you're saying that Syria could give Turkey a lot of trouble if it came to war, I'd have to disagree. Turkey rates to be worlds better at war than Syria. In Syria, the officer corps will have been chosen mainly for loyalty. And even at that, its loyalty turns out to be flexible. Good thing, but there it is.

In Turkey, the military is more nearly professional.

Turkey, but not Syria, has served a period of German tutelage.

Turkey, but not Syria, is a NATO member, and has learned something about war, judging from the result of her Cyprus invasion.

Turkey can't lose because a long stretch of mountainous terrain separates her Syrian border from her vitals. Syria...you get the picture.

And if Turkey needed any help, NATO could provide, without any real difficulty, air superiority fighter assistance that would quickly sweep the Syrian air force from the skies, leaving the Turks, and only the Turks, with tactical air support.

Your term "aggressor nations" is rather loaded. The government of Libya has no complaint with Sweden, France, etc. The people of Libya have no complaint. What nation, and what people, have been wronged? And if you will answer, Gaddafi, I will say, he is not, himself, a nation.

Need I reiterate:

Russia has a naval base in Syria.

If Syria is attacked with assistance from NATO, the Russians will take it personally, and then it's too late "not to play."

224 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:49:44pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

And after the lunacy we heard earlier in the day from Pamela Geller, here's a piece about Islam from a right of center author who has his head screwed on straight. No blanket condemnations here, just honest observation. The last part is especially good:

Of course for having dealt with a Muslim man as a human being and having tried to honestly depict him, Pamela Geller will no doubt denounce Theodore Dalrymple for "SUBMISSION TO ISLAM!!1".

I read that. Dalrymple [Dr. Anthony Daniels in real life] has written a slew of good books.

225 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:43:28pm

Headin' to bed. Nighty.

226 freetoken  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 1:11:48am
MP3 Audio
227 freetoken  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:04:57am
MP3 Audio
228 researchok  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:10:27am

Morning, all

229 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:18:21am

Morning Honcos.

230 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:20:08am

My yesterday sucked but today is starting out pretty good so far.

Yemen: Terror suspect Anwar al-Awlaki killed
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

231 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:21:56am

Thanks to the saner minds that stopped this especially egregious infringement upon the Rights of women. These people who seek to deny women their full Rights are no better than other extremists in other parts of this world. The word ironic does not do justice to the fact that our extremists are so rabid in their hate for those other religious extremists without realizing they are so similar.

Or is it envy in that the other freaks are more successful in enforcing their religion upon the government than our freaks are?

Why can't people live and let live?

232 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:24:07am

OK... I feel better now getting that rant out of my system.. :)

Morning all! :)

233 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:36:08am

Morning.

Think it must be the envy bit. But they do keep on trying.

234 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:38:14am

re: #233 dell*nix

Morning.

Think it must be the envy bit. But they do keep on trying.

arrr, that is the cynical answer that keeps percolating in my thoughts...

sad, it is...

change to happy subject, how about my Raiders?!?!?! lol

235 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:43:28am

Raiders?

236 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:47:09am

re: #235 dell*nix

Raiders?

Oakland.... football... silly game played by rich folks working for wealthy folks. I think most of them are "job creators" :)

237 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:50:22am

re: #236 boxhead

Ahh. Them folk. Win did they?

My sport is sky diving. Pure rush.

238 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:54:48am

re: #237 dell*nix

I used to carpool with a guy who was an ex-member of the Golden Knights.

To him, life was basically skydiving and then all the bullshit he had to do to afford skydiving.

239 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:55:03am

re: #237 dell*nix

Ahh. Them folk. Win did they?

My sport is sky diving. Pure rush.

They are actually playing fairly mistake free and looking good at 2-1.

But, is sky diving a sport? Do y'all race, or fight on the way down? :) that is awesome stuff.

I have always wanted to jump out of perfectly good plane, but compressed discs and thick bones does not make me a candidate. I have done the simulation thing at Universal City Walk in LA that has a jet engine blowing air at you. Fun times.. I always like to spit into the wind... heheh

240 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:58:39am

To date, nobody has been able to answer to my satisfaction the question "What happens if the 'chute fails?"

I would even consider hang-gliding, as the 'chute is already open before you leap.

241 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 2:59:52am

re: #240 ralphieboy

To date, nobody has been able to answer to my satisfaction the question "What happens if the 'chute fails?"

I would even consider hang-gliding, as the 'chute is already open before you leap.

If your chute fails they give you another one.

242 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:00:26am

re: #240 ralphieboy

You get a free repack.

243 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:00:47am

re: #240 ralphieboy

hang gliding is a lot more dangerous.

If the chute fails, you use your backup chute. To make sure the chute doesn't fail, pack it yourself or hire someone extremely competent to pack it for you. Use a drogue chute for maximum safety.

244 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:01:01am

re: #230 Cannadian Club Akbar

My yesterday sucked but today is starting out pretty good so far.

Yemen: Terror suspect Anwar al-Awlaki killed
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

Isn't he the one that everybody got their knickers in a twist over the suggestion that there's nothing that says the CinC can't order his death without an arrest, trial, sentencing, etc?

245 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:01:46am

re: #239 boxhead

You do style competition, sky dancing or sequential against other individuals or teams.

246 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:03:55am

re: #240 ralphieboy

To date, nobody has been able to answer to my satisfaction the question "What happens if the 'chute fails?"

I would even consider hang-gliding, as the 'chute is already open before you leap.

any fun that requires man to gain enough kinetic energy that can cause death is both potentially risky and extremely invigorating. it is the choices we make that makes it fun... :)

247 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:04:23am

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

A Japanese airline says one of its jets nose-dived and rolled almost upside down earlier this month because the co-pilot hit the wrong controls while trying to open the cockpit door so the captain could return from a restroom break.

248 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:04:41am

re: #244 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Isn't he the one that everybody got their knickers in a twist over the suggestion that there's nothing that says the CinC can't order his death without an arrest, trial, sentencing, etc?

Yea. He's an American born citizen so people thought it was wrong to target him for death. Oops!!

249 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:05:27am

re: #247 Obdicut

That is the kind of rush I prefer to avoid. As is getting shot at.

250 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:06:22am

re: #245 dell*nix

You do style competition, sky dancing or sequential against other individuals or teams.

cool.... but that is like synchronized swimming with death on the line.... :)

// just being a butt.... You have more balls than I do in the jumping thing...

251 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:08:24am

re: #250 boxhead

A loose harness will affect the balls bit, not in a good way either.

252 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:08:30am

re: #245 dell*nix

You do style competition, sky dancing or sequential against other individuals or teams.

Also, bouncing, splat, where did this tree come from...
///

253 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:10:09am

re: #251 dell*nix

A loose harness will affect the balls bit, not in a good way either.

OUCH.... again... yet another reason to not jump... :p

254 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:10:52am

re: #252 Cannadian Club Akbar

Had a gal thank a telephone pole once for being there. She just missed the silo and her canopy caught the phone pole leaving her only a foot or two off the ground.

255 boxhead  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:22:18am

night all... keep doing what y'all do...

i really got to get here at a reasonable time instead of 3:00 am... lol

256 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:22:47am

When you go on the wagon, you might fall off the wagon, then shit like this happens...
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

257 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:22:50am

G'nite

258 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:27:28am

re: #256 Cannadian Club Akbar

Some folks are just vermin drunk or sober.

259 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:30:01am

Good Morning Cupcakes!

260 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:34:09am

re: #259 RogueOne

Good Morning Cupcakes!

some of us are studmuffins

261 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:38:19am

re: #260 ralphieboy

some of us are studmuffins

And some have muffin tops.

262 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:48:09am

ELLWOOD CITY, Pa. -- A mother in Ellwood City is demanding justice from police and her son's school after she said her son was bullied and forced to drink urine.

The boy's mother said she can't understand why the Lawrence County district attorney won't prosecute the teens who are accused of making her 13-year-old son physically and emotionally sick.
[Link: www.wpxi.com...]

263 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:54:32am

Ok. I understand some people might not know of The Onion, but the tweets are funny. Me like #8.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

264 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:59:18am

re: #263 Cannadian Club Akbar

Oh geez, some idiots took it seriously.

Please note, cops, that if my brother tweets that he just left a thermonuclear device in the bathroom, he is not referring to an actual bomb. So, investigate at your peril.

265 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:01:27am

Why can't they be more like Family Circus?

266 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:03:32am

The Onion should have reported people were being held hostage and threatened with cantaloupe and romaine lettuce.

267 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:06:51am

Congrats on Awlaki.

268 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:14:21am

hahaha oh wow

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
[Link: www.slate.com...]

269 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:15:46am

People demanding that satire be "tasteful" don't really get satire.

270 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:16:38am

re: #268 000G
From the TPM link.
The paper then posted an article laying out the "breaking news" of the hostage situation -- having it begin when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) "suddenly burst into the National Statuary Hall with a pair of black panty hose over his head and began firing a Beretta 9 mm handgun into the air, shouting, 'Everybody down! Everybody get the fuck down !'"

271 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:18:38am

re: #268 000G

Funny story but the best part was the pic of boehner:
Image: Congress_Takes-R_jpg_250x1000_q85.jpg

272 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:18:43am

re: #264 Obdicut
Yeah my co-worker just did that and left, I hate the mornings after 5 cent hot wings.

273 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:19:30am

Reading The Onion tweets: First I laugh at them, then I laugh at the rage-replies telling The Onion that they aren't funny.

274 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:20:14am

The Onion should do an article today about the rush on emergency rooms with people having sticks removed from their asses.

275 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:20:58am

re: #271 RogueOne

Funny story but the best part was the pic of boehner:
Image: Congress_Takes-R_jpg_250x1000_q85.jpg

I think the best was this: Cell phone video posted on Twitter by one of the kidnapped school children in today's Congressional hostage situation.

"Hey Boehner! This kid's got a phone!"

276 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:27:13am
President Obama in bullet proof vest now on Capitol steps trying to talk congressmen down onion.com/r1pM9h #CongressHostage

Obama on bullhorn: "John, I know you can hear me in there. Please, you don't need to do this." #CongressHostage

277 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:35:23am

Michelle Malkin responds with usual hyper-pettiness:

New post-Not funny: The Onion spreads fake report on Capitol hostage-taking, children at gunpoint is.gd/YVwwIu

More to the point, neither the Onion article nor the tweets were funny, insightful, or pointed. is.gd/YVwwIu
19 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

It’s Harry Reid who held up the latest short-term government funding band-aid, not Boehner. @TheOnion #congresshostage

It’s President Obama who refused to act on his own bipartisan debt panel’s recommendations. @TheOnion #congresshostage

It’s massive entitlement expansions/ bailouts passed by both parties that have robbed our kids’ futures. @TheOnion #congresshostage

Plus: Dumb stunt comes just as continuing resolution wins "smooth sailing" from bipartisan big spenders is.gd/YVwwIu

278 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:36:32am

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Jon Stewart depends on the NYPD to keep his apartment from being burned down around his ears. I do hope he remembers that.

//Yeah, it'd be a shame if something happened to it.

Jeez Dark I hope I don't ever hear you complaining about "Union Thugs" again in a long time. Police exist to uphold the law, but they (regardless of what Sylvester Stallone may have said recently) ARE NOT the law unto themselves. They are capable of failure just like anyone else and because of the importance of their task the deserve to get called out on their failuers even harder than most of us do.

279 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:39:49am

Wow, even BoingBoing's Xeni Jardin gets it wrong: [Link: boingboing.net...]

Thing is, it's The Onion, the world's best known source of satirical "news" – if you expect anything but fake and false "reports" from it, you are a fool! The Onion should not be expected to put SATIRE! tags as warnings around their tweets, jeez.

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:39:53am

OK. So yesterday I stopped at a little bar to have a beer. Some dude sits nearby and starts saying this shit:
-"Those people will steal your shit if you don't lock it up".
-"Those people walk down the road in groups and they carry guns and will rob you".
-"Those people are all drunks and drug users".
Any guesses on who "those people" are? And fwiw, he isn't from here.

281 Archangelus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:41:40am

re: #53 publicityStunted

*And yes, if the Dems don't aggressively point this out, they're guilty of being aiders and abetters of the GOP's evil stupidity.

Forget the aggressiveness, i'll be glad if the party points this out at all at this rate...

282 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:43:59am

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

OK. So yesterday I stopped at a little bar to have a beer. Some dude sits nearby and starts saying this shit:
-"Those people will steal your shit if you don't lock it up".
-"Those people walk down the road in groups and they carry guns and will rob you".
-"Those people are all drunks and drug users".
Any guesses on who "those people" are? And fwiw, he isn't from here.

Rednecks?

283 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:44:25am

re: #263 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ok. I understand some people might not know of The Onion, but the tweets are funny. Me like #8.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Even if you do not know The Onion – getting your news from a twitter account of some organization you have no clue about makes you a tool.

284 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:44:52am

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar
New Yorkers?

285 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:45:05am

re: #282 RogueOne

Rednecks?

No, but thanks!!
/

286 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:45:16am

re: #279 000G

Wow, even BoingBoing's Xeni Jardin gets it wrong: [Link: boingboing.net...]

Thing is, it's The Onion, the world's best known source of satirical "news" – if you expect anything but fake and false "reports" from it, you are a fool! The Onion should not be expected to put SATIRE! tags as warnings around their tweets, jeez.

Sounds an awful lot like the start to the argument "There ought to be a law!". Countdown to congress taking up the "onion clause to the 1st amendment" starting any second now.

287 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:45:59am

re: #285 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, but thanks!!
/

You can't trust those people. They'll rob you blind man.

288 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:46:13am

re: #284 Shropshire_Slasher

New Yorkers?

No, but I agree!
/////

289 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:46:39am

re: #287 RogueOne

You can't trust those people. They'll rob you blind man.

Rednecks make THE best meth.
/

290 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:48:38am

Eskimos. We're sitting in Florida and some douche from Philly is crying about Eskimos.

291 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:49:23am

At least the bartender looked a little like Pippa.

292 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:49:32am

n/m

293 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:50:10am

re: #292 000G

I believe the proper term is Inuit.

I said Inuit, he said "No, Eskimos".

294 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:52:09am

"@JnthnSwift proposing cannibalism: FAIL!!1 #notfunny"

295 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:52:46am

re: #293 Cannadian Club Akbar

I said Inuit, he said "No, Eskimos".

I just looked it up, apparently I was misinformed.

Eskimos (or Esquimaux) or Inuit–Yupik (for Alaska: Inupiat–Yupik) peoples are indigenous peoples who have traditionally inhabited the circumpolar region from eastern Siberia (Russia), across Alaska (United States), Canada, and Greenland.

There are two main groups that are referred to as Eskimo: Yupik and Inuit.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

296 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:52:57am

re: #292 000G

n/m

mm

297 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:54:07am

re: #295 000G

Either way, dude made my bad mood worse.

298 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 4:58:40am

Ethnonyms annoy me. Way too much politics. Case in point: "Sinti und Roma" as a standard phrase in Germany.

299 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:00:55am

re: #298 000G

Ethnonyms annoy me. Way too much politics. Case in point: "Roma und Sinti" as a standard phrase in Germany.

Heh. Do you prefer Zigeuner? I hope "Gypsies" won't become politically incorrect.

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:01:11am

From WaPo:
WASHINGTON — AP source: US believes al-Awlaki was killed in strike by US jets, drones on his convoy

301 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:01:42am

re: #299 Sergey Romanov

Heh, my father blamed the gypsies for everything.

302 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:03:15am

re: #299 Sergey Romanov

Heh. Do you prefer Zigeuner?

No. That word should die out (as should "Tsiganologie"). But Roma includes Sinti. Sinti are a sub-group of Roma. Mentioning Sinti next to Roma is just a way of elevating that special sub-group within the larger group.

It's like saying "Bavarians and Germans" or "Texans and Americans".

I hope "Gypsies" won't become politically incorrect.

AFAIK it already is.

303 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:05:52am

re: #301 Shropshire_Slasher

Heh, my father blamed the gypsies for everything.

I had a friend (who did way too many drugs) that used to blame little blue elves for everything.

304 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:06:00am

re: #302 000G

AFAIK it already is.

I see the beginning of this process, with some texts taking it in " quotes, but it's not non-PC yet.

305 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:07:38am

re: #301 Shropshire_Slasher

Heh, my father blamed the gypsies for everything.

Those Gypsies run the government!

306 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:07:56am

re: #303 RogueOne

I had a friend (who did way too many drugs) that used to blame little blue elves for everything.

And he just gave garden gnomes a pass....

307 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:08:02am

re: #304 Sergey Romanov

I see the beginning of this process, with some texts taking it in " quotes, but it's not non-PC yet.

Enh. It's a through-and-through "word for other people", and it doesn't have any consistent meaning above and beyond Roma, so…

308 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:09:18am

re: #306 Cannadian Club Akbar

And he just gave garden gnomes a pass...

Every time he'd "trip" he'd see little blue elves. He was a lot of fun, I miss him.

309 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:09:46am

How to test an ethnonym for being "PC" or not: Personally meet people such denoted and use it to refer to them in front of them. See how they react.

310 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:10:34am

re: #307 000G

Enh. It's a through-and-through "word for other people", and it doesn't have any consistent meaning above and beyond Roma, so…

So nothing.

311 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:11:56am

re: #310 Sergey Romanov

So nothing.

So why not use Roma instead unless you insist on having really weird historical connotations that tell more about the people using the word than those whom it supposedly refers to?

312 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:12:58am

re: #309 000G

How to test an ethnonym for being "PC" or not: Personally meet people such denoted and use it to refer to them in front of them. See how they react.

Q: How many [insert ethnonym] does it take to change a light bulb?

A: That's not funny

313 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:14:51am

Related to some comments upthread:

NYPD Commander Anthony Bologna Pepper Sprays Citizens In Second Video
[Link: www.pixiq.com...]

A second video has emerged showing NYPD Deputy Inspector Anthony Bologna recklessly unleashing pepper spray on non-violent protesters as well as fellow officers at the ongoing Occupy Wall Street demonstrations.

Bologna, who was identified as the cop who pepper sprayed a pair of women who were already detained on Saturday, apparently keeps his pepper spray canister in his hands at all times, unleashing streams of pepper spray on unsuspecting citizens before disappearing back into the crowd.

The 29-year veteran of the NYPD is already a defendant in a lawsuit accusing him of abusing the rights of protesters during the 2004 Republican National Convention

That guy loves his pepper spray.

314 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:14:58am

re: #312 RogueOne

Q: How many [insert ethnonym] does it take to change a light bulb?

A: That's not funny

Q: How many divorced men does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, they go with the house.

315 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:15:45am

Morning {Lizardim}. Happy Friday from the wild north country, where the weather has been quite up and down over the last week (and looks like it will continue that way). Fall is definitely here, and the drive along the lakeshore is impressively spectacular in the afternoon. What all is new in Lizardia?

316 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:15:59am

re: #311 000G

So why not use Roma instead unless you insist on having really weird historical connotations that tell more about the people using the word than those whom it supposedly refers to?

Both are acceptable.

317 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:19:56am

re: #316 Sergey Romanov

Both are acceptable.

Empty statement if you do not specify for whom and why.

IOW: Why do you think terms and words become "un-PC" (which I think is a bogus concept anyhow)? It's certainly not a purely subjective call.

n/m, not really interested.

318 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:22:54am

re: #315 thedopefishlives

We're gonna be 92 today but mid 80's-mid 60's over the weekend. 'Bout time!!

319 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:23:13am

re: #311 000G

So why not use Roma instead unless you insist on having really weird historical connotations that tell more about the people using the word than those whom it supposedly refers to?

Created my own ethnic insult. Our town in Northern Italy had a mild mosquito (zanzare) problem, but not so bad that window srceens were available in the cultural inventory. No big deal for a do-it-yourselfer. So I took my language skills down to the hardware store to get materials. Had a little problem and some laughs when when I tried to describe my project for "schermo anti-zingare".

320 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:24:50am

Indiana; Red vs. Red:

Feds considering lawsuits against Indiana, other states over immigration laws
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

Indiana's tough new immigration law -- already being challenged in U.S. District Court by the ACLU -- could face yet another wave of opposition, this time from the federal government.
....
Rep. Eric Koch, R-Bedford, who co-sponsored the law in the Indiana House, criticized the federal government for knocking Indiana's immigration strategy without offering its own.

"The federal government has created the problem," Koch said. "As states, we have acted to solve it. So it would be ironic in that regard if they chose to challenge our efforts to solve a problem that they created."
......
The news pleased Sen. Tom Wyss, R-Fort Wayne, an early critic of the state's immigration law.

"It doesn't surprise me that the feds are going after it," he said. "I felt like we were doing something more for political posturing than something that we should be doing as a state.

"Law enforcement has enough to do," he said, and "dangerously, some law enforcement officers could start profiling, and there could be civil rights and civil liberties problems."

321 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:25:31am

re: #318 Cannadian Club Akbar

We're gonna be 92 today but mid 80's-mid 60's over the weekend. 'Bout time!!

We had a high of 77 two days ago. Yesterday things cooled off with a stiff 40-50 mph wind that caused some power outages out upon the blustery prairie. The temperatures are going to be on a bit of a roller-coaster ride over the next week, also.

322 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:27:29am

re: #317 000G

Empty statement if you do not specify for whom and why.

It is acceptable in the English-speaking world to refer to Roma as Gypsies, including the academic setting. Though, as I said, this may be changing.

IOW: Why do you think terms and words become "un-PC" (which I think is a bogus concept anyhow)? It's certainly not a purely subjective call.

That's a different question from whether or not the word is PC at this moment.

323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:27:49am

So, was I being racist?

Last night I went to hear a friend play with his new band. I assumed (he's a 50 something-white guy, lead guitarist) that he'd be playing with a 70's rock band. Wasn't.

He was playing with a 70's R&B band with 6 members (he, being the only white guy). Now, I love 70's funk/R&B and was really excited as I started to pick out the members. These guys were "Bootsy Collins" cool looking guys. I was so psyched. They were going to be be great.

Then they started playing. My guitarist friend is an excellent musician... the rest of the band? They kind of sucked and I was surprised.

Because they were really cool looking black guys in a R&B Band I automatically assumed they were going to be really good.

Are positive stereotypes a bad thing?

(They played "Sweet Home Alabama" in a set... I thought that was odd.)

324 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:28:57am

re: #319 Decatur Deb

Are you in Italy?

325 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:29:32am

re: #320 RogueOne

If you start a page, I'll throw in some links on the Alabama law.

326 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:30:52am

re: #323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, was I being racist?
...snip

Are positive stereotypes a bad thing?

(They played "Sweet Home Alabama" in a set... I thought that was odd.)

Yes, but the one about penis size sometimes gets a pass.

327 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:33:33am

re: #323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My friend Diamon, seven feet tall, blacker than black, absolutely sucks at basketball. Can't do a damn thing with it.

He is a great dancer, though.

There's nothing wrong with positive racial stereotypes as long as you don't act like this:

Youtube Video
328 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:34:09am

re: #325 Decatur Deb

If you start a page, I'll throw in some links on the Alabama law.

That sounds like a lot of work///

I find it interesting that, in the case of Indiana, the biggest arguments are between republicans. The Atty General (R) doesn't like the law, IIRC the gov (R) didn't like it either, and my state rep (D) proudly voted for it. I say "proudly" because he sent me a nice big glossy mailer telling me so.

329 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:35:08am

re: #324 Sergey Romanov

Are you in Italy?

Was, for a few years, but many years ago. My neighbors had a self-admitted split personality over treatment of the zingare. They could point to a statistically real minor crime problem, and recognized a communal guilt over the exportations in WWII. They tried to reach a balance by police efforts to keep the migrant population isolated in 'caravan' areas.
(This was during a good time in N. Italy, before the real rise of the Lega Nord klansmen.)

330 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:36:42am

re: #327 Obdicut

I was thinking this:
"You're family is black token. There's bound to be a bass in the basement somewhere!"

South Park Video
331 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:36:50am

re: #329 Decatur Deb

I used to love Italy as a kid. But they're being outright goddamn fascists about the Roma these days. Even most liberal Italians justify it with the old, tired arguments that were used on the Jews back in the day; that they're crooks, that they'll never assimilate, that they should just go away.

332 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:36:52am

re: #329 Decatur Deb

Are Lega Norda openly neo-fascist?

333 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:38:08am

re: #332 Sergey Romanov

Are Lega Norda openly neo-fascist?

They are about close to it as you can get without wearing blackshirts and praising Mussolini.

334 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:38:15am

re: #332 Sergey Romanov

I'm just reading up about the Toaff affair right now and I see that some Northern League guys hailed his book as something or other.

335 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:41:31am

re: #332 Sergey Romanov

Are Lega Norda openly neo-fascist?

They would have to deny it, so they just act it--just like OfCrap's 'dumb Confederates'. Their big bit then was separatism--anti-Rome and anything much south of the Po. (There was a 'separate separatist' movement to re-Germanize the south Tyrol.)

336 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:42:57am

Alrighty, off to my "screw gun ready job". See ya'll this afternoon.:)

337 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:44:51am

re: #322 Sergey Romanov

It is acceptable in the English-speaking world to refer to Roma as Gypsies, including the academic setting. Though, as I said, this may be changing.

Case in point:

[Link: www.google.com...]

338 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:45:32am

re: #331 Obdicut

I used to love Italy as a kid. But they're being outright goddamn fascists about the Roma these days. Even most liberal Italians justify it with the old, tired arguments that were used on the Jews back in the day; that they're crooks, that they'll never assimilate, that they should just go away.

The arguments are old and tired, and not quite false. If you feel a tiny hand in your pocket in Florence, and you spin your elbow around to clear it, you have an excellent chance to smash a 9 yr old Gypsy girl on the bridge of the nose and feel shitty about it for the rest of the day.

339 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:47:05am

Awlaki's bro says he's alive.

340 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:47:54am

re: #339 Sergey Romanov

Awlaki's bro says he's alive.

Perhaps, but his insurance rates have tripled.

341 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:51:48am

re: #340 Decatur Deb

Perhaps, but his insurance rates have tripled.

He could save 15% or more if he switches to Geico.

342 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:53:15am

re: #328 RogueOne

That sounds like a lot of work///

I find it interesting that, in the case of Indiana, the biggest arguments are between republicans. The Atty General (R) doesn't like the law, IIRC the gov (R) didn't like it either, and my state rep (D) proudly voted for it. I say "proudly" because he sent me a nice big glossy mailer telling me so.

Alabama pols are in favor or being very quiet about their qualms. Here's yesterday's Christian Science Monitor on our law.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

343 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 5:59:13am

re: #240 ralphieboy

To date, nobody has been able to answer to my satisfaction the question "What happens if the 'chute fails?"

I would even consider hang-gliding, as the 'chute is already open before you leap.

I had a friend when I was younger who was the east coast hang gliding champion. He met his unfortunate end in a competition.

So hang gliding carries its share of danger.

344 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:00:25am

re: #342 Decatur Deb

I read this yesterday:

Judge upholds key parts of state immigration law
[Link: www.tuscaloosanews.com...]

Agricultural leaders fear those parts of the law could cost farmers money this autumn by scaring away Hispanic workers who are vital to harvesting crops statewide.

“There are some sweet potato farmers in this state it's really going to hurt. I don't know how they're going to get their crops out,” said Jeremy Calvert, a farmer in rural Bremen.

345 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:03:08am

re: #343 makeitstop

I had a friend when I was younger who was the east coast hang gliding champion. He met his unfortunate end in a competition.

So hang gliding carries its share of danger.

I understand the dangers inherent in both sports, it is just that psychological threshhold that I refuse to cross.

346 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:05:22am

re: #344 RogueOne

I read this yesterday:

Judge upholds key parts of state immigration law
[Link: www.tuscaloosanews.com...]

Yes--She got rid of the silliest part (can't give a ride to church/doctor) but left the most harmful. The whole thing will likely be tossed by the Supremes. Agriculture will take the big hit. Alabama anglos will take a construction job, if it pays a decent wage, but they have lost their taste for picking crops. (Never were too fond of picking cotton.)

347 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:07:29am

re: #344 RogueOne


They will not even begin to learn unless they are given an opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot...

348 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:08:53am

re: #338 Decatur Deb

The arguments are old and tired, and not quite false. If you feel a tiny hand in your pocket in Florence, and you spin your elbow around to clear it, you have an excellent chance to smash a 9 yr old Gypsy girl on the bridge of the nose and feel shitty about it for the rest of the day.

Yeah, sure, but people who stop there, and don't think "So, why is the 9 year old Gypsy girl a criminal?" and then reply "Because of the incredible history of oppression, ghettoization, and abuse of the Roma people, which continues to this day", are intentionally being blind to the issue, and I hate that behavior. There's no easy solution, but Europe owes the Roma. Big time. They should be putting in the effort, and not waiting for Roma society to suddenly uncurl from the defensive crouch it's in.

349 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:08:59am

re: #346 Decatur Deb

Alabama anglos will take a construction job, if it pays a decent wage, but they have lost their taste for picking crops. (Never were too fond of picking cotton.)

That's a cotton-pickin' lie!!!

/

350 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:11:57am

re: #348 Obdicut

I watched an episode of "My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding" on the Discovery Channel once. It absolutely floored me just how viciously people hated the Roma, even in a "civilized" nation like the UK. Some people just let their fear of anything different get in the way of better understanding.

351 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:12:03am

re: #277 000G

Michelle Malkin responds with usual hyper-pettiness:

Plus: Dumb stunt comes just as continuing resolution wins "smooth sailing" from bipartisan big spenders is.

Funny. My description of Malkin rhymes with 'dumb stunt.'

352 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:14:59am

re: #348 Obdicut

Yeah, sure, but people who stop there, and don't think "So, why is the 9 year old Gypsy girl a criminal?" and then reply "Because of the incredible history of oppression, ghettoization, and abuse of the Roma people, which continues to this day", are intentionally being blind to the issue, and I hate that behavior. There's no easy solution, but Europe owes the Roma. Big time. They should be putting in the effort, and not waiting for Roma society to suddenly uncurl from the defensive crouch it's in.

The settled populations, even assuming the best will in the world, are in a trap. Switzerland got into a world of crap by trying to clumsily assimilate and 'stabilize' their migrant groups. Attempts to provide a better life for the Gypsy kid are a hair's-breadth from soft genocide of the Roma culture. My personal bias is for the kid's future, and I know that's not going to fly.

353 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:15:12am

re: #350 thedopefishlives

It's pretty much similar to me to people who hate the Native Americans in the US. You don't run into this that often, but you sometimes will, in towns close to reservations especially. You'll hear them complain about the lazy Indians, drunkards, culturally flawed, social parasites. It's insane, given the history of the US with the American Indians, to me to think of them, those last few nations, those reservations, with anything other than complex shame. But for someone to then actively hate the group that we committed genocide against; it's just despicable, and I can't see it coming from anywhere other than a knowledge of guilt or total sociopathy.

354 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:16:14am

Officer accused of terrorizing citizens, still on force
[Link: www.cbsatlanta.com...]

A Metro Atlanta police officer is accused of being out of control and assaulting the citizens he was sworn to serve and protect.

CBS Atlanta News has obtained more than 500 pages of internal affairs complaints lodged against Clayton County police officer Michael Hobbs in the last five years.

Chief Investigative Reporter Wendy Saltzman found dozens of use-of-force reports brushed aside by Clayton County internal affairs, including claims Hobbs is terrorizing citizens.

One of those citizens is Brian Hoolihan. Hoolihan passed out in his car along side a road in Clayton County in a diabetic coma back in 2007. He had a sticker on the window of his car, warning about his life threatening medical condition.

A police report shows Officer Hobbs arrived at the scene and wrongfully assumed Hoolihan was drunk. Hobbs forced himself into the car and struck Hoolihan twice with a closed fist to the face and another blunt elbow blow to his head.

"My face was all beat up, my ribs were either broke or cracked," said Hoolihan. "I had black and blue marks on the back of my legs, you can tell it was from the baton. There were, I think, seven stitches above my one eye."

500 pages in 5 years. I guess he's going to have to kill someone before they take away his badge.

355 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:17:09am

re: #207 lostlakehiker

They're better than the last group, because the last group is worse. Those revisionists' real agenda is to kill the Jews Hitler missed. That's evil, raw and sulfurous.

I'll let LVQ answer this one:

The climate change deniers are much worse than holocaust deniers. I'm saying that as a Jew who lost family by the way. Why are they worse? Because the Holocaust already happened. Nothing will ever bring back my dead relatives. Climate change will kill vastly more people around the world if left unchecked. It will crash our civilization as we know it. It will make all the horrors of the second world war into a footnote for any survivors.

Somalia right now is a microcosm of what's in store.

re: #207 lostlakehiker

You cannot say with surety that they really expect things to be all that bad, and are deliberately working to that end. It's a mistake to impute demonic motives to people when other explanations, more innocent, are available if you take a charitable view of the facts.

What innocent motives can you ascribe to all this?

Climate Science Denier Brandishes Noose to Scientist

Climate Scientists Claim 'McCarthy-Like Threats,' Say They Face Intimidation, Ominous E-Mails

Mann is not the only one. The FBI says it's seeing an uptick in threatening communications to climate scientists. Recently, a white supremacist website posted Mann's picture alongside several of his colleagues with the word "Jew" next to each image.

The "white supremacist website" referred to above is Stormfront. A veritable den of holocaust denial as well.

re: #207 lostlakehiker

It's a tactical mistake, and it's a moral mistake. You inflame and embitter your heart against people who are not necessarily mortal enemies deserving of annihilation. And you inflame them against you, and make your own side's political challenge that much more difficult.

If you look at the info I posted above, you'll see you have the scenario exactly backwards, and are projecting the attitudes and actions of AGW deniers onto those who accept the science. You might as well accuse women who speak out against domestic violence or black people who speak out against racism of "inflaming" the other side.

356 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:17:19am

re: #353 Obdicut

It's pretty much similar to me to people who hate the Native Americans in the US. You don't run into this that often, but you sometimes will, in towns close to reservations especially. You'll hear them complain about the lazy Indians, drunkards, culturally flawed, social parasites. It's insane, given the history of the US with the American Indians, to me to think of them, those last few nations, those reservations, with anything other than complex shame. But for someone to then actively hate the group that we committed genocide against; it's just despicable, and I can't see it coming from anywhere other than a knowledge of guilt or total sociopathy.

Find that attitude all over Arizona. They never forgave Kit Carson for leaving 5,000 Navajo alive.

357 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:17:56am

re: #313 RogueOne

Related to some comments upthread:

NYPD Commander Anthony Bologna Pepper Sprays Citizens In Second Video
[Link: www.pixiq.com...]

That guy loves his pepper spray.

Heh. He got other officers, too? Awesome.

Don't they administer psych evals to these guys once in a while? Maybe they ought to think about doing that.

358 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:19:07am

re: #352 Decatur Deb

Yeah, it's funny, as I think I've remarked before; my wife is part Roma, and she does charity work for Roma causes and I obviously advocate for them as well, but she'd be absolutely shunned in Roma society, and if she were a pure Roma woman she'd never have had the opportunity to become a doctor. Roma society is incredibly misogynistic; it's frozen where it has been since the pre-enlightenment times, because the Roma weren't really invited to participate in the Enlightenment.

The solution will be slow; it's a similar solution to what needs to happen in many Middle Eastern countries. It requires a building of trust and the revolution of Enlightenment values working inside that culture. There's no way to-- or good to-- preserving Roma culture as it is now, but they deserve their chance to have their culture transformed by it.

359 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:21:03am

re: #358 Obdicut

Yeah, it's funny, as I think I've remarked before; my wife is part Roma, and she does charity work for Roma causes and I obviously advocate for them as well, but she'd be absolutely shunned in Roma society, and if she were a pure Roma woman she'd never have had the opportunity to become a doctor. Roma society is incredibly misogynistic; it's frozen where it has been since the pre-enlightenment times, because the Roma weren't really invited to participate in the Enlightenment.

The solution will be slow; it's a similar solution to what needs to happen in many Middle Eastern countries. It requires a building of trust and the revolution of Enlightenment values working inside that culture. There's no way to-- or good to-- preserving Roma culture as it is now, but they deserve their chance to have their culture transformed by it.

Agree completely. It's going to be slow, and the trick is to minimize the damage along the way.

360 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:21:33am

re: #353 Obdicut

That's an attitude you find in certain places here in Minnesota. The Indians completely own a part of Red Lake, the biggest lake completely contained in our fair state. Being in a backwoods part of the state, though, you get a lot of the dumb ignorant rednecks who think "the only good Indian is a dead Indian", even though we've already slaughtered them to near-extinction and basically imprisoned them on what used to be their own land.

361 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:23:49am

re: #360 thedopefishlives

That's an attitude you find in certain places here in Minnesota. The Indians completely own a part of Red Lake, the biggest lake completely contained in our fair state. Being in a backwoods part of the state, though, you get a lot of the dumb ignorant rednecks who think "the only good Indian is a dead Indian", even though we've already slaughtered them to near-extinction and basically imprisoned them on what used to be their own land.

Dont forget former Secretary of the Interior James Watt's comment about Indian reservations representing the "failure of socialism".

Or the failure of genocide...

362 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:30:11am

re: #361 ralphieboy

Dont forget former Secretary of the Interior James Watt's comment about Indian reservations representing the "failure of socialism".

Or the failure of genocide...

Your man Watt is worthy of closer study. He might be the prototype release for the TPGOP theocraps.

363 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:32:02am

We were talking about gun safety/training earlier in the week. Sadly, there's no video yet:

UN firearms instructor shot himself in the thigh
[Link: www.wwlp.com...]

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (WWLP) - A United Nations firearms instructor from France accidentally shot himself during recertification training at Smith & Wesson late Thursday morning.

Springfield Police Sgt. John Delaney said the man, who is not being publicly identified, shot himself in the thigh during the class...

They wouldn't accept his surrender and he panicked.

364 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:33:12am

re: #362 Decatur Deb

Your man Watt is worthy of closer study. He might be the prototype release for the TPGOP theocraps.

As I remember it, he was on the record making Dominionist statements about the environment, wasn't he?

365 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:34:11am

re: #12 goddamnedfrank

"Nine oligarchs in robes." What kind of person seriously thinks putting Rick Perry in charge of nominating Supreme Court Justices is a good idea?

Well, lotsa people here voted for Bush and McCain, even if some of them might regret it now. That meant voting for putting theocrats on the SC, which is what happened.

366 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:35:47am

re: #364 makeitstop

As I remember it, he was on the record making Dominionist statements about the environment, wasn't he?

"No sense in preserving the redwoods in my care 'cuz Jesus is coming soon." (or words to that effect)

367 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:36:53am

re: #362 Decatur Deb

Your man Watt is worthy of closer study. He might be the prototype release for the TPGOP theocraps.

His famous quote involved how we should not be too concerned about saving natural resources, as God put them here for our use and after all, he might well return anytime soon...

He was the prototype of the cynical bastard who spouts bad theology to justify a corporate agenda.

368 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:39:22am

re: #367 ralphieboy

Yes, but at that time he was sort of shocking, because the GOP was cynical and sane.

369 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:40:56am

I have things to accomplish. Enjoy the day people!

370 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:41:44am

re: #369 RogueOne

I have things to accomplish. Enjoy the day people!

Me too. Dog is rioting. BBL

371 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:42:45am

re: #220 lostlakehiker

When I say aggressor nation, I mean those nations who actively participated in bombing Qaddafi's forces.

I still think this intervention has shown a logistics and supplies issue with NATO none the less.

372 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:42:59am

re: #368 Decatur Deb

Yes, but at that time he was sort of shocking, because the GOP was cynical and sane.

Relatively sane by modern standards, yes. He was rather outstandingly nuts for the time, though.

But he represents the very sort of people the Fundamentalist Christian Right started insinuating into all levels of government, administration, education and business. We are seeing the fruits of that labor in our current political and social landscape.

373 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:49:14am

Meanwhile, in Australia...

Australian columnist 'offended, insulted, humiliated' fair-skinned Aborigines

Conservative commentator Andrew Bolt has been found in breach of the Racial Discrimination Act, following a pair of newspaper articles in 2009 where Bolt criticised fair-skinned people identifying as Aborigines.

374 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:53:43am

New Perry Bible Fellowship comic:

Image: PBF251-Evolving_to_Fly.jpg

375 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:55:33am

This is also good:

Image: red.png

376 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 6:58:30am

New poll up in Pages. Should the FBI be allowed to GPS track your vehicle without a warrant? SCOTUS will answer. Linked to an article at Wired.

377 BishopX  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:00:58am

re: #376 Rightwingconspirator

Linky?

378 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:03:09am

re: #377 BishopX

Sorry!
Right here...

Off to work BBL

379 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:09:33am

Good news to start the morning....
U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed, Yemen says

American-born Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki -- whose fluency in English and technology made him one of the top terrorist recruiters in the world -- was killed in Friday airstrike in Yemen, officials said.

380 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:10:53am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Not confirmed, bro says alive.

381 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:11:38am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

We didn't realize anything about Qutb, but we sure as fuck got this guy!

382 iossarian  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:11:40am

re: #380 Sergey Romanov

Not confirmed, bro says alive.

U mad dead, bro?

383 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:12:29am

re: #382 iossarian

[Link: news.xinhuanet.com...]

384 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:14:27am

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Egypt's envoy to PA: Israel wants to retake Sinai

385 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:15:38am

Morning Lizards!

How is the day going?

386 iossarian  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:16:55am

re: #385 ggt

Morning Lizards!

How is the day going?

Spifftastic here.

387 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:16:55am

re: #385 ggt

Morning Lizards!

How is the day going?

Just getting started.

Hello lizards!

388 darthstar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:19:03am

Mornin' all. Bank of America's website is all fucked up this morning...no home page, apology message, links to online banking lead to more apology messages...can't even log in.

389 iossarian  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:20:21am

re: #388 darthstar

Mornin' all. Bank of America's website is all fucked up this morning...no home page, apology message, links to online banking lead to more apology messages...can't even log in.

But they'll still burn you with the $40 late fee if you don't make that payment today!

390 wee fury  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:21:32am

re: #388 darthstar

Mornin' all. Bank of America's website is all fucked up this morning...no home page, apology message, links to online banking lead to more apology messages...can't even log in.

I blame the debit card shopping transaction fee.

391 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:23:49am

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Energy Secretary Steven Chu acknowledged Thursday making the final decision to allow a struggling solar company to continue receiving taxpayer money after it had technically defaulted on a $535 million federal loan guaranteed by his agency.

392 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:24:48am

re: #388 darthstar

I can log in just fine.

393 darthstar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:24:48am

Your PSA for the day: Punctuation Saves Lives

394 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:24:48am

re: #391 Sergey Romanov

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Someone took responsibility? In our government?

395 darthstar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:25:49am

re: #392 recusancy

I can log in just fine.

Maybe it's just the servers I'm hitting.

396 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:26:30am

re: #395 darthstar

Maybe it's just the servers I'm hitting.

They hate you . .

:0

397 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:26:37am

I don't bank at BOA.
:)

398 JRCMYP  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:26:59am

They are searching high and low for jobs. Next uterus, please!

399 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:29:34am

I tried to take a nap in the recliner yesterday. Monster Puppy jumped up, reclined on my chest and started nibbling my nose.

I think he has turned a corner, going from a Monster to just a Bother.

400 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:30:05am

just a random bit for randomness' sake

Youtube Video
401 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:31:19am

re: #400 Sergey Romanov

just a random bit for randomness' sake

[Video]

Random is scary -- hence, Darwin is an abomination . . .

/

402 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:32:28am

re: #401 ggt

Darwin is not quite random - there's a method to the madness! /

403 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:35:46am

re: #386 iossarian

Spifftastic here.

That is just wrong --

well, I'm still on my first cuppa.

My attitude will probably change around the 3rd.

ha!

404 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:39:29am

I absolutely LOVED this article from the Atlantic.

It's about menopause --and it's implications. NOW, guy lizards --please don't balk. Check it out and tell me what you think.

405 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:44:10am

The Residents

Youtube Video
406 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:46:23am

re: #405 Sergey Romanov

The Residents

[Video]

They look like irradiated smurfs.

407 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:48:01am

re: #406 ggt

They look like irradiated smurfs.

I think you've just stumbled upon the secret behind the band ;)

408 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:51:38am

Today's outrageous outrage: 'October Offensive' – Van Jones Threatens Violence Next Month? (video)

409 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:51:41am

re: #407 Sergey Romanov

I think you've just stumbled upon the secret behind the band ;)

could explain a lot!

410 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:53:00am

re: #408 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage: 'October Offensive' – Van Jones Threatens Violence Next Month? (video)

For some reason, when I read "Van Jones" all I can think of is the old actor, Van Johnson.

My brain goes into a loop and nothing make senses.

411 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:53:01am

re: #408 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage: 'October Offensive' – Van Jones Threatens Violence Next Month? (video)

Oktoberfest in the US could turn ugly indeed. ///

412 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:54:12am

re: #411 Sergey Romanov

Oktoberfest in the US could turn ugly indeed. ///

Nah, they'll all end up in the Beer Garten, drunk and dancing the Polka.

413 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:55:12am

Paul criticizes Obama on al-Awlaki killing
Ron Paul!

414 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:55:35am

The Polka

Sorry, had to.

415 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:56:50am

re: #413 Killgore Trout

Paul criticizes Obama on al-Awlaki killing
Ron Paul!

What did he say about Osama?

416 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:57:57am

Speaking of Neanderthal right wing policies, the wingnuts are getting yet another rude awakening about abstinence-only programs:

[Link: religion.blogs.cnn.com...]

True love doesn’t wait after all.

That’s the implication in the upcoming October issue of an evangelical magazine that claims that young, unmarried Christians are having premarital sex almost as much as their non-Christian peers.

The article in Relevant magazine, entitled “(Almost) Everyone’s Doing It,” cited several studies examining the sexual activity of single Christians. One of the biggest surprises was a December 2009 study, conducted by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, which included information on sexual activity.

While the study’s primary report did not explore religion, some additional analysis focusing on sexual activity and religious identification yielded this result: 80 percent of unmarried evangelical young adults (18 to 29) said that they have had sex - slightly less than 88 percent of unmarried adults, according to the teen pregnancy prevention organization.

The article highlights what challenges abstinence movements face. Movements such as “True Love Waits,” encourage teens to wear purity rings, sign virginity pledges and pledge chastity during public ceremonies.

Yet many of these Christian youths eventually abandon their purity pledges, Relevant’s Tyler Charles concludes in the article. Tyler talked to people like “Maria,” an evangelical woman who said she wanted to wait until marriage to have sex.

But she said she started having sex with her college boyfriend when she turned 20 because nearly everyone, even most of her Christian friends, were having sex.

417 darthstar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:58:25am

re: #396 ggt

They hate you . .

:0

Well, normally I wouldn't give a crap, but today I get my first retention bonus and I want to see how much it is after taxes...plus my missus is going to Italy next week and I'm thinking of getting her an iPad for the trip so she can email me.

418 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:58:31am

re: #415 Sergey Romanov

What did he say about Osama?

The same thing. He's a nutter but he's consistent.

419 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:58:33am

re: #408 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage: 'October Offensive' – Van Jones Threatens Violence Next Month? (video)

OMG the Fail it Burns. Van Jones said 'Fight' once and 'Offensive' once. Pretty tame, especially as compared to Tea Party rhetoric.

The comments section is pretty much the usual cess pool.

420 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:58:54am
"If the American people accept this blindly and casually, that we now have an accepted practice of the president assassinating people who he thinks are bad guys, I think it's sad," Paul told reporters after a speech in Manchester Friday.

I had this impression that this has always been a practice, and if anything, Obama probably does it with more awareness and care than many other Presidents would. But what do you know, it all started under Obama! Oh-kay.

421 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:59:37am

re: #413 Killgore Trout

Paul criticizes Obama on al-Awlaki killing
Ron Paul!

Dennis Kucinich should be next.

422 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:59:41am

re: #416 Lidane

Speaking of Neanderthal right wing policies, the wingnuts are getting yet another rude awakening about abstinence-only programs:

[Link: religion.blogs.cnn.com...]

I posted an article about this a couple of days ago.

The hypocrisy of the Religious Whacko's is beyond insane. It's as if these people jumped out of the womb fully adult and never went thru puberty. Have they no memories? As if all of them were virgins when they got married . . .

423 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:00:15am
The libertarian firebrand pointed to the case of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, who was tried and sentenced to death, as an example of how to deal with suspected terrorists.

Um, Ron, there's a peace situation and there's a war situation.

424 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:00:19am

re: #417 darthstar

Well, normally I wouldn't give a crap, but today I get my first retention bonus and I want to see how much it is after taxes...plus my missus is going to Italy next week and I'm thinking of getting her an iPad for the trip so she can email me.

Well, I can see your point.

Congrats on the bonus!

425 jaunte  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:00:20am

re: #408 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage: 'October Offensive' – Van Jones Threatens Violence Next Month? (video)

That's a classic Fox page. Black man threatens violence? Plus: World's Tightest Dress?
Image: Fox-Violence_TightDress.jpg

426 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:01:51am

I'm off to do Laundry and otherwise be productive.

have a great morning all!

427 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:02:45am

re: #423 Sergey Romanov

Um, Ron, there's a peace situation and there's a war situation.

I'm sure if Alwaki had turned himself in, we would have tried him. (While RP's argument about presidential overreach causes a slight twinge, I'll get over it.)

428 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:02:51am

re: #415 Sergey Romanov

What did he say about Osama?

OBL was not a US citizen, I think that is the crux of it. Right now, this is going to cause a bit of brain assplosions on the right, but they will find a way to spin it to criticize Obama somehow...

429 darthstar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:02:59am

re: #413 Killgore Trout

Paul criticizes Obama on al-Awlaki killing
Ron Paul!

Al Qaeda operatives should be tried in US Courts! (Unless President Obama tries to do that, then it's MILITARY TRIBUNALS!) I wish the GOP would figure out where they stand on at least one issue...besides on the opposite side as President Obama.

430 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:03:29am

re: #418 Killgore Trout

The same thing. He's a nutter but he's consistent.

That's a libertarian trait. Being consistent is more important than being realistic.

431 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:04:28am

re: #427 Decatur Deb

I'm sure if Alwaki had turned himself in, we would have tried him.

Exxxactly.

(While RP's argument about presidential overreach causes a slight twinge, I'll get over it.)

I'm not someone happy about assassinations/targeted killings in general in war time of situation of imminent danger, but I would be the last to argue that they're out of the question. The procedure is another issue, there are questions to be asked.

432 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:05:01am

re: #429 darthstar

Well, Paul is not representative of the GOP on this issue.

433 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:06:14am

re: #428 ralphieboy

OBL was not a US citizen, I think that is the crux of it.

Well, I get that. I just don't see it as an issue. It's not like non-citizens are of less value than the US citizens.

434 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:06:37am

You mean the "Oreo" kracker?

I've got the Prosecuter, Right Here!! Cal. 45!!!

Van Jones and his underground world of militants are very dangerous and should be taken off the streets of this country.

I be sacred! Oh so sacred of dat man!!

Another one of Obama's ugly homie clowns.

Gee, I wonder where the trolls are? If they were here, I'd tell them that I still haven't heard anything like what Van Jones is saying coming from the Tea Party. In fact, the worst thing I've seen the Tea Party do is jam the prime rib line at the Old Country Buffet and pick up the trash you leave in your public parks. It sounds like Van Jones is telling his disciples to have a "Krystallnacht" moment. Just remember one thing: This isn't 1938 Germany. Everyone here has guns. Some of you are going to d i e.

435 darthstar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:06:37am

re: #432 Sergey Romanov

Well, Paul is not representative of the GOP on this issue.

He's in their top 5 (according to presidential polls)...so his opinion does carry representational weight.

436 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:08:05am

re: #435 darthstar

He's in their top 5 (according to presidential polls)...so his opinion does carry representational weight.

He gets single digits in the recent polls, IIRC.

437 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:08:08am

re: #432 Sergey Romanov

Well, Paul is not representative of the GOP on this issue.

Then we'll have to ask Limbaugh.

438 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:09:09am

re: #437 Decatur Deb

Then we'll have to ask Limbaugh.

Limbo will probably blabber about how you should turn the whole ME (aside from Israel) into a glass desert.

439 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:09:54am

re: #435 darthstar

He's in their top 5 (according to presidential polls)...so his opinion does carry representational weight.

He's always high in the polls. When the actual votes were counted last time h was dead last I think.

440 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:10:01am

Glenn Greenwald is also using the "US citizen assassinated without due process" argument over at slate: [Link: www.salon.com...]

441 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:12:15am

re: #436 Sergey Romanov

He gets single digits in the recent polls, IIRC.

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

He's always high in the polls. When the actual votes were counted last time h was dead last I think.

Here's a sort of sloppy poll aggregate by RCP. The rolling selection has its own biases, but it's about the best guess:

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

442 darthstar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:12:34am

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

He's always high in the polls. When the actual votes were counted last time h was dead last I think.

He's your kook. Own him.

Time to bug out for a bit...later everyone.

443 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:14:35am

re: #441 Decatur Deb

BTW, there's no contradiction between me and NJD there - those ca. 8% is high for someone like Paul.

444 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:15:44am

re: #434 BigPapa

You mean the "Oreo" kracker?

I've got the Prosecuter, Right Here!! Cal. 45!!!

Van Jones and his underground world of militants are very dangerous and should be taken off the streets of this country.

I be sacred! Oh so sacred of dat man!!

Another one of Obama's ugly homie clowns.

Gee, I wonder where the trolls are? If they were here, I'd tell them that I still haven't heard anything like what Van Jones is saying coming from the Tea Party. In fact, the worst thing I've seen the Tea Party do is jam the prime rib line at the Old Country Buffet and pick up the trash you leave in your public parks. It sounds like Van Jones is telling his disciples to have a "Krystallnacht" moment. Just remember one thing: This isn't 1938 Germany. Everyone here has guns. Some of you are going to d i e.

It takes absolutely nothing to set the racists off nowadays. Morons.

445 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:16:52am

re: #443 Sergey Romanov

BTW, there's no contradiction between me and NJD there - those ca. 8% is high for someone like Paul.

Yup. Then you see where Huntsman rates.

446 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:18:12am

re: #432 Sergey Romanov

Well, Paul is not representative of the GOP on this issue.

He is criticizing Obama, which makes him 100% representative of the GOP in that respect...

447 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:18:24am

re: #434 BigPapa

What are they commenting to?

448 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:19:17am

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

He's always high in the polls. When the actual votes were counted last time h was dead last I think.

You're close

How it SHOULD read is that

"his (Pauls) followers are always high when they are polled"


:)

449 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:20:21am
MSNBC Video

What the hell Michelle. Humans attempting to apply self-determiniation is the fault of Obama expressing what has been US foreign policy for the last 30 years? (Because he did not say what you said he did about the 1967 borders since you dropped the nuance.)

Nth level pander, ODS, or complete cluelessness? You decide.

450 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:20:33am

Odd find: What is the dead-to-alive ratio of performers at the original Woodstock? Turns out it's a lot lower than I'd imagined.

451 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:23:58am

re: #440 ralphieboy

He was in a foreign state directing people to attack, with one incident succeeding (Foot Hood) and another failing narrowly (The Underwear Guy).

He was doing acts of war. He dealt with him as such.

452 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:26:16am

re: #451 ProLifeLiberal

He was doing acts of war. He dealt with him as such.

The Glenn Greenwald article headline states he was killed "far from any battlefield", but in the GWOT, the definition of "battlefield" has to be somewhat modified to fit the situation.

453 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:26:26am

re: #447 Decatur Deb

What are they commenting to?


'October Offensive' – Van Jones Threatens Violence Next Month?

Here's some more filth:

Good, then we can take some of them off the welfare and foodstamp program. Worth the burial costs.

Send the drones after him. It is easy to hide the drone operator's identity.

454 SidewaysQuark  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:26:26am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Good news to start the morning...
U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed, Yemen says

Is it just me, or are these Al Qaida leaders falling like dominoes since a new administration took over?

455 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:26:45am

re: #434 BigPapa

I read this as "Van Jones and his unicorns"! Well, it's Friday evening, whaddayawant.

Van Jones and his unicorn army. Heh.

456 sagehen  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:27:41am

re: #429 darthstar

I wish the GOP would figure out where they stand on at least one issue...besides on the opposite side as President Obama.

Youtube Video
457 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:29:24am

re: #454 SidewaysQuark

Is it just me, or are these Al Qaida leaders falling like dominoes since a new administration took over?

It's been ongoing

Even before Bin Laden was bagged, there were (what seemed to be) monthly reports of "a'" #2 Al Q man getting the eternal dirt nap

I recall commenting at the time I would NOT want to be a #3 man

The promotion will literally kill you!

458 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:29:41am

re: #454 SidewaysQuark

Is it just me, or are these Al Qaida leaders falling like dominoes since a new administration took over?

Yep. And it's all thanks to George Bush...

459 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:30:11am

re: #452 ralphieboy

The Glenn Greenwald article headline states he was killed "far from any battlefield", but in the GWOT, the definition of "battlefield" has to be somewhat modified to fit the situation.

From wiki, citing Gary Solis' book:

The targeted individual is directly participating in hostilities, whether in a combat function or otherwise. The applicable ICRC interpretive guidance indicates that civilians who lead terrorist organizations, for example, by virtue of their position never literally pick up arms themselves, but by the same token they never lay them down, and are therefore legitimate targeted killing targets.

460 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:33:01am

re: #453 BigPapa


'October Offensive' – Van Jones Threatens Violence Next Month?

Jezus, there is nothing in his comments inciting violence in the least, but the Foxatroids are freaking out over his use of the term "October offensive".
No problem when Tea Partiers come to rallies with "We're not armed this time" posters or refer to "Second Amendment remedies", but they are convinced that VJ's words are the equivalent of "Burn, baby, burn!"

461 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:33:25am

Did 'The Onion's' tweet go too far?
No, they didn't.
IT'S THE FUCKING ONION! It's what they fucking do.
Sheesh.

462 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:33:45am

re: #454 SidewaysQuark

Is it just me, or are these Al Qaida leaders falling like dominoes since a new administration took over?

Couldn't handle the change.

463 KingKenrod  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:34:43am

re: #388 darthstar

Mornin' all. Bank of America's website is all fucked up this morning...no home page, apology message, links to online banking lead to more apology messages...can't even log in.

It's still down...I wonder if this is an attack prompted by the new debit card fees? They've got the homepage back up, but still can't login.

464 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:34:59am

re: #461 Varek Raith

Did 'The Onion's' tweet go too far?
No, they didn't.
IT'S THE FUCKING ONION! It's what they fucking do.
Sheesh.

If I were them, I'd double down just to piss off idjits who even ask such questions.

465 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:36:28am

re: #461 Varek Raith

Did 'The Onion's' tweet go too far?
No, they didn't.
IT'S THE FUCKING ONION! It's what they fucking do.
Sheesh.

We are living in a country that grows more and more like an Onion headline every day. I can understand why people have trouble telling satire from real reporting. Rush Limbauch suffers from that problem on a regular basis...

466 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:36:29am

re: #429 darthstar

I wish the GOP would figure out where they stand on at least one issue...besides on the opposite side as President Obama.

You're asking for logical consistency from a party that wants the POTUS to cut taxes AND balance the budget, who is pro-life, but executes criminals like it's going out of style, and who's an immigrant Horatio Alger that will build an armored fence with sniper towers and land mines to keep all the filthy brown furriners out of Real America.

467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:37:34am

re: #460 ralphieboy

Jezus, there is nothing in his comments inciting violence in the least, but the Foxatroids are freaking out over his use of the term "October offensive".
No problem when Tea Partiers come to rallies with "We're not armed this time" posters or refer to "Second Amendment remedies", but they are convinced that VJ's words are the equivalent of "Burn, baby, burn!"

VJ, or any other Black person besides their 3 handpicked favorites, could quote from the Beatitudes. It would be the equivalent of burn baby burn.

468 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:37:40am

I expect Buck won't use his usual "... can't take a joke" dismissal.

469 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:38:50am

re: #464 Sergey Romanov

If I were them, I'd double down just to piss off idjits who even ask such questions.

Check out [Link: www.landoverbaptist.org,...] a parody right-wing fundamentalist Christian site. My favorite part are the letters from readers, many of whom take it all seriously and start arguing theology with them.

Scary part is that their parody is so close to some actual fundamentalist religious sites that it is hard to tell at first glance...

470 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:39:16am

re: #461 Varek Raith

Did 'The Onion's' tweet go too far?
No, they didn't.
IT'S THE FUCKING ONION! It's what they fucking do.
Sheesh.

They were yammering about this on CNN yesterday. I wanted to reach through the screen and punch everyone involved in that fail.

Also, CNN trying to talk about Reddit yesterday was hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing at their shock that Reddit, warts and all, is owned by Conde Nast.

471 Buck  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:39:34am

re: #468 Sergey Romanov

I expect Buck won't use his usual "... can't take a joke" dismissal.

Not sure what you are referring to.

472 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:39:44am

Mexico Killed In Drug Deal

MEXICO CITY—In the latest incident of drug-related violence to hit the country, all 111 million citizens of Mexico were killed Monday during a shoot-out between rival drug cartels.

According to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, the violence was sparked by a botched drug deal involving an estimated 20 kilograms of marijuana, a dispute that led low-level members of the Sinaloa cartel to open fire on local dealers in Culiacán. Within seconds, the gunfire had spread to Chihuahua, Michoacán, Yucatán, and, minutes later, the other 27 Mexican states, leaving every person in Mexico dead.

"We're still piecing together details, but it looks as though the incident began as an act of retaliation against Sinaloa by two foot soldiers from the Los Zetas cartel," DEA administrator Michele Leonhart said. "The Gulf and Tijuana cartels then responded before being ambushed by La Familia Michoacána and Los Negros. At that point, witnesses reported hearing roughly 357 million gunshots, during which time the Mexican populace was caught in the crossfire and killed."

"A four-gram bag of cocaine was also recovered by agents," Leonhart added.

Geez, CNN, is this too far as well???
Lol.

473 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:40:30am

re: #469 ralphieboy

Check out [Link: www.landoverbaptist.org,...] a parody right-wing fundamentalist Christian site. My favorite part are the letters from readers, many of whom take it all seriously and start arguing theology with them.

Scary part is that their parody is so close to some actual fundamentalist religious sites that it is hard to tell at first glance...

Not only I've been reading it since ca. '99, I even participated in their forum a bit.

474 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:42:19am

WEIRD: Media Goes Bonkers Over Michelle Obama's Photo-Op at Target

Irony: Fox Nation goes bonkers over 'Media' going (allegedly) bonkers.

Peanut Gallery Meme Fail

I didn't know Target carried $400.00 gardening shoes.

she'd fit in better at Walmart

how many $1 000 000 of taxpayor money did this cost?

She certainly has some ugly clothes.

475 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:43:08am

Another protest sign that I'd actually carry:

Image: angrysign.jpg

Heh.

476 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:44:21am

re: #475 Lidane

Image: 26-funny-protest-signs21-1297256833.jpg

477 jaunte  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:45:01am

re: #474 BigPapa

how many $1 000 000 of taxpayor money did this cost?

Another homescholer.

478 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:46:11am

re: #474 BigPapa

WEIRD: Media Goes Bonkers Over Michelle Obama's Photo-Op at Target

Irony: Fox Nation goes bonkers over 'Media' going (allegedly) bonkers.

Peanut Gallery Meme Fail

I didn't know Target carried $400.00 gardening shoes.

she'd fit in better at Walmart

how many $1 000 000 of taxpayor money did this cost?

She certainly has some ugly clothes.

Eleventy dollers plus tahx.

479 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:46:55am

re: #475 Lidane

Another protest sign that I'd actually carry:

Image: angrysign.jpg

Heh.

Non-angry sign...

Image: 1196420534_f.jpg

480 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:48:41am

re: #477 jaunte

Another homescholer.


Be sacred of her! I'm sacred of her.

481 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:49:47am

re: #471 Buck

Not sure what you are referring to.

Oh gee, Buck.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

482 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:50:36am

Anwar Awlaki has reportedly been killed in a drone strike.

483 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:51:11am

re: #438 Sergey Romanov
That was Howard Stern, so it is easier to find the oil!

484 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:51:12am

re: #482 lostlakehiker

Anwar Awlaki has reportedly been killed in a drone strike.

AGAIN?

/

485 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:51:16am

LOL.

This story kicked off various negative reactions across Twitter. In a very notable example, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor's (R-VA) real-life spokesman Brad Dayspring tweeted: "The Onion: FAIL. #notfunny"

A minute or two later, The Onion tweeted a message about Cantor: "Arlington gun shop confirms Rep. @EricCantor bought 6 semi-automatic handguns, 3 rifles & 600 clips of ammo last month #CongressHostage"

486 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:51:36am

re: #482 lostlakehiker

Anwar Awlaki has reportedly been killed in a drone strike.

again??

((sorry ,, couldn't resist,,,, story is hours old now))

487 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:52:16am

re: #484 Sergey Romanov

AGAIN?

/

re: #486 sattv4u2

again??

((sorry ,, couldn't resist,,, story is hours old now))

I would have beat you to it if I didn't add on

488 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:53:03am

re: #487 sattv4u2

Yeah, Uncle Turtle, whatever.

/

489 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:53:33am

re: #488 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, Uncle Turtle, whatever.

/

Slow and Steady Wins The Race!

490 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:54:08am

re: #489 sattv4u2

Slow and Steady Wins The Race!

Hmm.

Image: aesop_reloaded.png

491 Buck  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:55:41am

re: #481 Sergey Romanov

Oh gee, Buck.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

OK, I know about those, but what are you referring to NOW?

492 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 8:57:51am

re: #491 Buck

OK, I know about those, but what are you referring to NOW?

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

493 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:02:53am

Al-Jazeera has lumped in coverage of our killing al-Awlaki with the Yemen Live Blog.

That's a bad move. His killing will certainly hurt Al-Qaeda in Yemen, but won't heavily affect the Revolt, I don't think.

They are 2 separate issues.

494 Buck  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:05:55am

re: #492 Varek Raith

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

And you think that (referring to people who don't think that onion story is a joke) won't dismiss them as "... can't take a joke"?

Wrong again....

495 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:07:07am

re: #494 Buck

And you think that (referring to people who don't think that onion story is a joke) won't dismiss them as "... can't take a joke"?

Wrong again...

Huh, I haven't said anything about that.

496 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:07:35am

re: #461 Varek Raith

Did 'The Onion's' tweet go too far?
No, they didn't.
IT'S THE FUCKING ONION! It's what they fucking do.
Sheesh.

A.) No, it didn't go too far. It's the fucking Onion. Investigate a source before you retweet, numbnuts.

B.) I didn't think it was funny. Not because of the subject matter, but I thought the delivery was lacking.

497 chunkymonkey  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:09:30am
... law that requires women to undergo an invasive vaginal procedure before they can have a legal abortion.

The above could be re-worded to read less emotionally thus:

... law that requires women to undergo an invasive vaginal procedure before they can have an invasive vaginal procedure.

And then to be consistent you could also show an image that depicts the invasiveness of the abortion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favor of 100% legal abortion, I'm just not in favor of emotive arguments. But if we're going to use emotive arguments in favor of abortion, I just say what could be worse for a child than being born to parents who do not want you?

498 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:10:13am

re: #496 JasonA

A.) No, it didn't go too far. It's the fucking Onion. Investigate a source before you retweet, numbnuts.

This hits at the whole crux of twitter culture, we just rebroadcast without checking sources. Sort of like all toy guns need a flame orange barrel to indicate they are not lethal, I think that all satirical articles should be required by law to be re-tweeted with a flame orange headline...

499 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:11:10am

Michael Moore Backs Call to Re-Open Investigation of 9/11 Attacks

...Moore is backing former Florida governor and senator Bob Graham’s call for President Obama to reopen the investigation into 9/11 after new information emerged about the possible role of prominent Saudis.

Keep beating a dead horse Michael!

500 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:12:25am

re: #497 chunkymonkey


The difference being that one is voluntary and the other is mandatory. There is a big whopping difference there, I do not find it over-emotional to be critical of the mandatory nature of these invasive procedures.

501 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:14:38am

re: #497 chunkymonkey

The above could be re-worded to read less emotionally thus:

And then to be consistent you could also show an image that depicts the invasiveness of the abortion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favor of 100% legal abortion, I'm just not in favor of emotive arguments. But if we're going to use emotive arguments in favor of abortion, I just say what could be worse for a child than being born to parents who do not want you?

For me I just stick with the violinist argument because I've yet to run into an effective counter argument to it.

502 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:15:24am

re: #497 chunkymonkey

But if we're going to use emotive arguments in favor of abortion, I just say what could be worse for a child than being born to parents who do not want you?

I could think of a few things.

Like being a state-coerced birth.

Or being adopted by parents who kill you. That sort of thing.

503 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:17:50am

re: #497 chunkymonkey

Yes. What is fucking frighening is that you somehow think that if a woman consents to one invasive vaginal procedure, that somehow lessens the gravity of a different invasive vaginal procedure.

I cannot tell you how much that line of thought terrifies me.

Do you understand that the point of this is that this would mean the procedure had to be performed whether the woman wanted it or not?

504 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:18:52am

Somebody can't tell the difference between a colonoscopy and prison gang rape.

Oh, well the colonoscopy has lube.

505 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:19:18am

re: #497 chunkymonkey

re: #497 chunkymonkey

And then to be consistent you could also show an image that depicts the invasiveness of the abortion.

Pretty much every surgery, by definition, is "invasive". Don't get too emotional over this one - it's no one's business what kind of surgery a woman has except her and her medical practitioners.

Don't get too emotional over that concept, either - no emotion in the world will change that fact.

506 chunkymonkey  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:20:05am

re: #503 Obdicut

Yes. What is fucking frighening is that you somehow think that if a woman consents to one invasive vaginal procedure, that somehow lessens the gravity of a different invasive vaginal procedure.

I cannot tell you how much that line of thought terrifies me.

Do you understand that the point of this is that this would mean the procedure had to be performed whether the woman wanted it or not?

Actually, that's not what I think. I think they are not equivalent. One is certainly coerced and wrong. The other is a free choice of all women, or at least should be. But no matter how you stack it, both procedures are "invasive vaginal procedures."

507 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:20:32am

re: #503 Obdicut

Do you understand that the point of this is that this would mean the procedure had to be performed whether the woman wanted it or not?

The idea of women's physical/bodily integrity gets some people very emotional, I guess. /

508 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:21:34am

re: #497 chunkymonkey

And then to be consistent you could also show an image that depicts the invasiveness of the abortion.

re: #506 chunkymonkey

Actually, that's not what I think. I think they are not equivalent. One is certainly coerced and wrong. The other is a free choice of all women, or at least should be. But no matter how you stack it, both procedures are "invasive vaginal procedures."

Ever heard of RU-486? You are ignorant. I'm guessing here that you are also male.

509 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:22:05am

re: #506 chunkymonkey

Actually, that's not what I think. I think they are not equivalent. One is certainly coerced and wrong. The other is a free choice of all women, or at least should be. But no matter how you stack it, both procedures are "invasive vaginal procedures."

Too many cons are turned on by this idea alone, and get nervous at the prospect of a woman saying "no" to it. I sure hope you're not one.

510 jaunte  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:22:15am

re: #506 chunkymonkey

But no matter how you stack it, both procedures are "invasive vaginal procedures."

You are wrong about that.

511 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:23:08am

re: #506 chunkymonkey

Idiot.
One procedure is forced, the other is not.
See the god damned difference?

512 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:23:45am

re: #474 BigPapa

WEIRD: Media Goes Bonkers Over Michelle Obama's Photo-Op at Target

Irony: Fox Nation goes bonkers over 'Media' going (allegedly) bonkers.

Peanut Gallery Meme Fail

I didn't know Target carried $400.00 gardening shoes.

she'd fit in better at Walmart

how many $1 000 000 of taxpayor money did this cost?

She certainly has some ugly clothes.

I'm not surprised.

1) Target doesn't carry $400 gardening shoes. Her gardening shoes were purple Converse, $40, I have a pair just like them.
2) I shop at Wal-Mart. I am a person of Wal-Mart, and fit right in (heh)
3) She's paying with her own money from her own wallet.
4) No, her clothes are quite lovely, most of the time.

Facts, facts, facts. Pesky.

513 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:23:45am

re: #506 chunkymonkey

But no matter how you stack it, both procedures are "invasive vaginal procedures."

So what? Who cares? What is the point of pointing out that some (not all) abortions involve vaginal insertion?

Would it be better if it were an invasive rectal procedure? Would it be any different?

514 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:24:48am

Party of Freedom and Liberty!*

*restrictions on Freedom and Liberty may apply

515 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:24:56am

re: #499 NJDhockeyfan

Michael Moore Backs Call to Re-Open Investigation of 9/11 Attacks

Keep beating a dead horse Michael!

If there's new information shouldn't that be pursued? How's that a dead horse? Do you not want everyone involved brought to justice?

516 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:25:23am

re: #511 Varek Raith

Idiot.
One procedure is forced, the other is not.
See the god damned difference?

Heh, don't be overly emotive.

517 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:25:30am

re: #497 chunkymonkey

The above could be re-worded to read less emotionally thus:

And then to be consistent you could also show an image that depicts the invasiveness of the abortion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favor of 100% legal abortion, I'm just not in favor of emotive arguments. But if we're going to use emotive arguments in favor of abortion, I just say what could be worse for a child than being born to parents who do not want you?

Yeah, let's make it even more traumatic!

derp

518 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:26:20am

re: #514 JasonA

Party of Freedom and Liberty!*

*restrictions on Freedom and Liberty may apply

Ha! qft

519 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:27:17am

re: #512 reine.de.tout

There is no place she could shop where they wouldn't complain, because they simply reject her as a whole. If she shops fancy, she get criticized for that, if she shops thrifty she gets criticized for that.

It's really too bad to me that so many social conservatives can't be happier about having an openly religious family man with nary a hint of scandal as the president of the US. I was young but I did actually feel that Clinton had kind of besmirched the office a bit. Obama and his family behave with rectitude, and I really honestly wish that could make more people happier, that they could let down their rejection of him for whatever reason and see the qualities and virtues they share.

520 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:28:09am

re: #510 jaunte

You are wrong about that.

Their imagination is on overdrive, like most voyeuristic con men on this topic.

521 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:28:14am

re: #517 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, let's make it even more traumatic!

derp

The whole point of these mandatory procedures and mandatory counselling is to make abortion even more traumatic for the women who choose to go through with it. If they cannot ban it outright, they will spare no effort to make it less accessible.

522 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:28:32am

re: #519 Obdicut

I really honestly wish that could make more people happier, that they could let down their rejection of him for whatever reason and see the qualities and virtues they share.

Dreamer.

523 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:29:28am

re: #497 chunkymonkey

The above could be re-worded to read less emotionally thus:

And then to be consistent you could also show an image that depicts the invasiveness of the abortion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favor of 100% legal abortion, I'm just not in favor of emotive arguments. But if we're going to use emotive arguments in favor of abortion, I just say what could be worse for a child than being born to parents who do not want you?

I'm calling bullshit on this. You say you're completely in favor of 100% legal abortion (Whatever you mean by that. Does that mean that you're in favor of abortions when they're allowed by law?) and that you're not in favor of emotive arguments, but then you try to take a pretty objectively true statement and twist it into, uh, an emotional statement.

Not just that, but then you talk about adding an image to depict "the invasiveness of the abortion". This is, almost without fail, the kind of thing I expect to hear from someone who's anti-abortion, as part of their quest to demonize the procedure, those involved in performing them or around them, and those that have them. So yeah, I don't buy that you're not just trying to make an thinly veiled attack on abortion and the rights of women in general.

524 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:29:52am

re: #519 Obdicut

There is no place she could shop where they wouldn't complain, because they simply reject her as a whole. If she shops fancy, she get criticized for that, if she shops thrifty she gets criticized for that.

It's really too bad to me that social conservatives can't be happier about having an openly religious family man with nary a hint of scandal as the president of the US. I was young but I did actually feel that Clinton had kind of besmirched the office a bit. Obama and his family behave with rectitude, and I really honestly wish that could make more people happier, that they could let down their rejection of him for whatever reason and see the qualities and virtues they share.

The Obama presidency is not to my liking.
The Obama family, however - is. THIS social conservative is not quite sure why folks can't see that their family life promotes family values, in a big way. I find it really odd.

525 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:30:03am

re: #521 ralphieboy

The whole point of these mandatory procedures and mandatory counselling is to make abortion even more traumatic for the women who choose to go through with it. If they cannot ban it outright, they will spare no effort to make it less accessible.

The idea is a punitive, trauma-inducing state, funded by the taxes of their harassment targets. States rights government, in a nutshell.

526 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:30:05am

re: #521 ralphieboy

The whole point of these mandatory procedures and mandatory counselling is to make abortion even more traumatic for the women who choose to go through with it. If they cannot ban it outright, they will spare no effort to make it less accessible.

Because what about the children that's why.

527 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:30:42am

re: #519 Obdicut


Even more sad is that they are not openly pleased that someone from an unpriveleged background worked his way up on his own efforts. That should serve as a confirmation of the American Dream, and an affirmation of what conservatives ostensibly stand for: freedom and equality.

But these sort of comments show what their brand of conserviatism is based on...

528 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:30:51am

re: #523 Simply Sarah

I'm calling bullshit on this. You say you're completely in favor of 100% legal abortion (Whatever you mean by that. Does that mean that you're in favor of abortions when they're allowed by law?) and that you're not in favor of emotive arguments, but then you try to take a pretty objectively true statement and twist it into, uh, an emotional statement.

Not just that, but then you talk about adding an image to depict "the invasiveness of the abortion". This is, almost without fail, the kind of thing I expect to hear from someone who's anti-abortion, as part of their quest to demonize the procedure, those involved in performing them or around them, and those that have them. So yeah, I don't buy that you're not just trying to make an thinly veiled attack on abortion and the rights of women in general.

EXACTLY.

529 albusteve  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:31:00am

re: #524 reine.de.tout

The Obama presidency is not to my liking.
The Obama family, however - is. THIS social conservative is not quite sure why folks can't see that their family life promotes family values, in a big way. I find it really odd.

I heard she beats him

530 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:32:03am

re: #521 ralphieboy

The whole point of these mandatory procedures and mandatory counselling is to make abortion even more traumatic for the women who choose to go through with it. If they cannot ban it outright, they will spare no effort to make it less accessible.

So, you didn't actually mean to upding #506?

531 jaunte  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:32:12am

re: #529 albusteve

In Scrabble.

532 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:32:18am

re: #529 albusteve

I heard she beats him

Steve, you're in one of your moods, I can see.

533 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:33:20am

re: #529 albusteve

I heard she beats him

She should take lamp throwing lessons from Hillary.
//

534 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:33:43am

re: #524 reine.de.tout

That's the sort of thing. I thought Bush the elder carried himself with great dignity and very little swagger, and that his wife and he made a wonderful first couple. I disagreed very strongly with a lot of his politics, but I respected the way he carried himself.

I think some people get mad that we can all eat the same food, that we all drink the same water. They want deep divisions, and get angry when you tell them we can make common cause. This is on all sides. I get very tired of my more 'liberal' friends plans for reforming America which leaves out everyone but the bleeding edge of the progressive movement.

We're all in this together, and I don't want to leave anyone behind.

535 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:33:51am

Why is it that some dogs will spend hours barking at the air yet when someone burglarizes a house that dog is nowhere to be found?

//

536 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:34:05am

re: #532 reine.de.tout

Steve, you're in one of your moods, I can see.

Taking that as snark.

537 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:34:17am

re: #521 ralphieboy

Or downding #523?

538 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:34:32am

re: #530 wrenchwench

So, you didn't actually mean to upding #506?

we are getting lost in nuance here. I disagree with the "emotional argument" thing, but am not for dogpiling over it.

539 albusteve  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:34:57am

re: #532 reine.de.tout

Steve, you're in one of your moods, I can see.

here is what I think about Barak Obama....
I would drink beer with him

540 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:35:46am

re: #527 ralphieboy

Even more sad is that they are not openly pleased that someone from an unpriveleged background worked his way up on his own efforts. That should serve as a confirmation of the American Dream, and an affirmation of what conservatives ostensibly stand for: freedom and equality.

Not really. We are talking about a bunch of hypocrite confederates in their own miserable lives, who can't be trusted any further than they can be thrown.

This has been their approach to every Black person out from under their venal control for generations. We see what they did to Colin and Condi for not being 100% Prissy-and-Mammy, 100% of the time; why would the Obamas fare any better.

541 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:36:06am

New Texas law! Whenever a woman gets pregnant in Texas her husband and/or boyfriend(s) have to get a probe shoved up their urethra without any pain killers. Just because.

//

542 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:36:16am

Best reason to Occupy Wall Street today.

543 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:36:17am

re: #538 ralphieboy

we are getting lost in nuance here. I disagree with the "emotional argument" thing, but am not for dogpiling over it.

It's not dogpiling if each person reaches a similar conclusion independently.

I'm just trying to figure out what your position is. I saw the dinging as contradictory to your comments.

544 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:36:46am

re: #537 wrenchwench

Or downding #523?

Those were Balancing dings if you want to go into the details. Like I said, I disagree with the bit about emotive argument, but the thread is going all emotion over the invasive practices theme. I see no need for that.

545 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:36:56am

re: #536 Decatur Deb

Taking that as snark.

I'm crazy about Steve!
Really.
But he really does have his moods - they come and go -

546 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:38:09am

re: #540 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's what I meant about the true nature of their "conservatism".

547 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:38:12am

re: #544 ralphieboy

Those were Balancing dings if you want to go into the details. Like I said, I disagree with the bit about emotive argument, but the thread is going all emotion over the invasive practices theme. I see no need for that.

Because it's clear what he's/she's trying to do.
If you can't take the heat...

548 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:38:15am

re: #544 ralphieboy

Those were Balancing dings if you want to go into the details. Like I said, I disagree with the bit about emotive argument, but the thread is going all emotion over the invasive practices theme. I see no need for that.

I don't see dings as "emotional", any more than I see pointing out facts as "emotional". It's a sign of disagreement. "Balance" is not always a good thing.

549 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:39:54am

re: #548 wrenchwench

I don't see dings as "emotional", any more than I see pointing out facts as "emotional". It's a sign of disagreement. "Balance" is not always a good thing.

And downdinging Simply Sarah's comment is just weird, because she nailed it.

550 chunkymonkey  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:40:08am

re: #508 wrenchwench

re: #506 chunkymonkey

Ever heard of RU-486? You are ignorant. I'm guessing here that you are also male.

RU-486 is a great development. I wish that every abortion was performed early enough that RU-486 could be used. It saves the woman the trauma of the abortion, it aborts the fetus when it is merely a clump of cells. What's not to like?

551 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:41:11am

re: #544 ralphieboy

Those were Balancing dings if you want to go into the details. Like I said, I disagree with the bit about emotive argument, but the thread is going all emotion over the invasive practices theme. I see no need for that.

Seriously? These reactions aren't in a bubble. That type of 'reasoning' is exactly the type of thing we see day in and day out from the anti-abortion crowd, trying to wrap their opposition in some sort of concern. It's the same kind of thinking behind crisis pregnancy centers. Pretending to look out for the woman, but really just creating another angle to attack the right to an abortion.

552 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:41:22am

re: #550 chunkymonkey

RU-486 is a great development. I wish that every abortion was performed early enough that RU-486 could be used. It saves the woman the trauma of the abortion, it aborts the fetus when it is merely a clump of cells. What's not to like?

Almost all of them are performed early enough, but still it is not available to many women because of stupid rules pushed through by wingnuts.

553 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:42:13am

re: #542 recusancy

Best reason to Occupy Wall Street today.

Wow. If that doesn't completely overwhelm the neighborhood, nothing will.

554 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:42:28am

Using a plastic wand to go lady-spelunking is invasive, but so is abortion.

But quit being overly emotive. Being overly crass is OK though.

Does that about cover it?

555 sagehen  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:43:23am

re: #535 Gus 802

Why is it that some dogs will spend hours barking at the air yet when someone burglarizes a house that dog is nowhere to be found?

//

They were barking 'cause they're lonely. They just wanted attention. The burgler probably said "good doggie, good boy" and gave him a hamburger.

556 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:43:29am

re: #527 ralphieboy

Even more sad is that they are not openly pleased that someone from an unpriveleged background worked his way up on his own efforts. That should serve as a confirmation of the American Dream, and an affirmation of what conservatives ostensibly stand for: freedom and equality.

But these sort of comments show what their brand of conserviatism is based on...

If you mean the Prez, he hardly had an underprivileged background. His mother was a Phd and he was largely raised in a family of a bank vice-president. There was never a doubt that he would get a superb education. For whatever reason, however he drives a good chunk of his opposition totally berserk, to good effect.

557 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:43:31am

re: #546 ralphieboy

That's what I meant about the true nature of their "conservatism".

AFAIC, the true nature of those dumb bigots is the desire to reinstate a two-tiered society, with special rights for God's Favorites, i.e. themselves.

Any seeming contradiction in their rhetoric and actual treatment of all others really can be reduced to that.

558 chunkymonkey  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:44:50am

re: #523 Simply Sarah

I'm calling bullshit on this. You say you're completely in favor of 100% legal abortion (Whatever you mean by that. Does that mean that you're in favor of abortions when they're allowed by law?) and that you're not in favor of emotive arguments, but then you try to take a pretty objectively true statement and twist it into, uh, an emotional statement.

Good point, I will clarify. I think abortion should be 100% legal in the USA.

559 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:45:05am

As a follow-up: Yes, there's an emotional response. What the fuck do you expect to happen when your rights are constantly under fire and you're forced to struggle without rest to try and defend them in what sometimes seems like a losing battle?

560 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:46:39am

re: #557 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

AFAIC, the true nature of those dumb bigots is the desire to reinstate a two-tiered society, with special rights for God's Favorites, i.e. themselves.

Any seeming contradiction in their rhetoric and actual treatment of all others really can be reduced to that.

Oh, I think we all know there's still a multi-tiered society. Just some people want to make sure things not just stay that way, but further ingrain it.

561 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:48:08am

re: #556 Decatur Deb

If you mean the Prez, he hardly had an underprivileged background. His mother was a Phd and he was largely raised in a family of a bank vice-president. There was never a doubt that he would get a superb education. For whatever reason, however he drives a good chunk of his opposition totally berserk, to good effect.

I said "unpriveleged", not "underpriveleged", as in he was not the son of an Admiral, Senator or ex-President. It meant that he was not guaranteed access to an Ivy-league college or military academy by right of his family connections. He had to work to get there.

562 chunkymonkey  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:48:21am

Damn formatting errors! Let me try that againre: #523 Simply Sarah

Not just that, but then you talk about adding an image to depict "the invasiveness of the abortion". This is, almost without fail, the kind of thing I expect to hear from someone who's anti-abortion, as part of their quest to demonize the procedure, those involved in performing them or around them, and those that have them. So yeah, I don't buy that you're not just trying to make an thinly veiled attack on abortion and the rights of women in general.

My point is that the original post showed an image that depicts the invasiveness of the sonogram procedure in order to invoke an emotional response. The actual abortion procedure is even more invasive. Showing pictures of things like this in order to invoke an emotional response is the anti-abortion movement's method of choice for getting their point across and I don't like it. The fact that the sonogram procedure is FORCED is enough for me to be against it.

563 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:48:37am

re: #355 publicityStunted

I'll let LVQ answer this one:

Somalia right now is a microcosm of what's in store.

re: #207 lostlakehiker

What innocent motives can you ascribe to all this?

Climate Science Denier Brandishes Noose to Scientist

Climate Scientists Claim 'McCarthy-Like Threats,' Say They Face Intimidation, Ominous E-Mails

The "white supremacist website" referred to above is Stormfront. A veritable den of holocaust denial as well.

re: #207 lostlakehiker

If you look at the info I posted above, you'll see you have the scenario exactly backwards, and are projecting the attitudes and actions of AGW deniers onto those who accept the science. You might as well accuse women who speak out against domestic violence or black people who speak out against racism of "inflaming" the other side.

LVQ is talking about the ringleaders. The smooth types who have triple digit IQ's with room to spare, and who give a lot of time and thought to the subject. They cannot plead ignorance.

The rank and file of denialists include people just as smart, but busy with their own lives and ignorant for lack of time and effort. Not culpably ignorant. Also, people not as smart, and ignorant for lack of understanding of the science, which is after all somewhat difficult.

To reiterate, it's a bad idea to harden one's own heart against people who may well not be deliberately aiming at destroying the earth's future, who may not understand the implications of what they're doing, and who may eventually come around. There is a time and place for implacable hatred and a settled determination to destroy an enemy who knows no argument but force, and there is a time for a different, softer, attitude.

564 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:50:07am

re: #559 Simply Sarah

As a follow-up: Yes, there's an emotional response. What the fuck do you expect to happen when your rights are constantly under fire and you're forced to struggle without rest to try and defend them in what sometimes seems like a losing battle?

Eventually, the Anger Managers and other forms of fingerwaggers never fail to emerge, when those actually affected by repressive social policies have something contrary to say about them.

They can often get quite emotional in doing so, too, I've noticed. lol

We can count on it, like clockwork.

565 chunkymonkey  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:50:10am

And just to be extra clear, I'd be against a law that required women to do anything against their will in order to have an abortion, no matter how trivial or invasive. The degree of invasiveness of the requirement is not a factor.

566 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:51:44am

re: #560 Simply Sarah

Oh, I think we all know there's still a multi-tiered society. Just some people want to make sure things not just stay that way, but further ingrain it.

Theoretically, it's been crossed off the books for a little more than a generation. Socons want that made official taxpayer-funded policy, again.

Lol good luck to them with that. They'll need it.

567 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:53:25am

re: #565 chunkymonkey

And just to be extra clear, I'd be against a law that required women to do anything against their will in order to have an abortion, no matter how trivial or invasive. The degree of invasiveness of the requirement is not a factor.

Agree. I have no problem with offereing women all the information and assistance they could ask for.

And how about offering them assistance with raising the child? That is something all the mandatory invasive procedures people seem to overlook.

568 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:53:39am

re: #519 Obdicut

There is no place she could shop where they wouldn't complain, because they simply reject her as a whole. If she shops fancy, she get criticized for that, if she shops thrifty she gets criticized for that.

It's really too bad to me that so many social conservatives can't be happier about having an openly religious family man with nary a hint of scandal as the president of the US. I was young but I did actually feel that Clinton had kind of besmirched the office a bit. Obama and his family behave with rectitude, and I really honestly wish that could make more people happier, that they could let down their rejection of him for whatever reason and see the qualities and virtues they share.

Count me in on this. The part about openly religious is no big deal either way with me, but they're a married couple raising their kids and no hint of Hollywoodish hijinks. That sets a good example.

I'm an admirer of Michelle. Also, I applaud her shopping trip...any governing elite needs to see life as it is lived by the masses, in person and with all the sights and sounds and ambiance. Drifting out of touch is a big risk, one that's inherent in the position.

569 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:54:23am

re: #558 chunkymonkey

Good point, I will clarify. I think abortion should be 100% legal in the USA.

And if you re: #562 chunkymonkey

Damn formatting errors! Let me try that again

My point is that the original post showed an image that depicts the invasiveness of the sonogram procedure in order to invoke an emotional response. The actual abortion procedure is even more invasive. Showing pictures of things like this in order to invoke an emotional response is the anti-abortion movement's method of choice for getting their point across and I don't like it. The fact that the sonogram procedure is FORCED is enough for me to be against it.

Look, I really want to take your statements as all being genuine, but it's really hard for me to do so when you start making those types of arguments. First off, most abortions aren't nearly as invasive as you seem to be making them out to be and they are far less invasive than many other common medical procedures.

Second, when the target of attack is under attack, in part, because it's a physically and emotionally invasive act forced on a woman against her will, uh, it's hard not to involve emotion in that. It's at the very heart of the issue.

Finally, all that aside, the way to fix an argument that's overly emotional isn't to make it even more emotional in some bizarre concept of balance. That's ridiculous.

570 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:54:54am

re: #565 chunkymonkey

And just to be extra clear, I'd be against a law that required women to do anything against their will in order to have an abortion, no matter how trivial or invasive. The degree of invasiveness of the requirement is not a factor.

9_9

This is not the People's Republic of China. State-coerced abortion is not an issue here; hasn't been since Buck vs Bell was...dunno...sidestepped.

571 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:55:17am

re: #562 chunkymonkey

No. You are absolutely wrong to call it the tactics of the anti-abortionists. Absolutely.

First of all, it is being shown primarily to show the gravity of what happens. That it is not a minimal experience. You're calling that an 'emotional response', but in fact it's information that causes most people to have an emotional response. It's not something that can be helped, but the main reason is showing what it actually means to get a sonogram in this fashion.

Second of all, the anti-abortionists usually use mislabeled signs with complete lies on them. This picture is a faithfully accurate depiction of what occurs.

So neither in content, or purpose, is this similar to the anti-abortionists.

572 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:57:27am

re: #562 chunkymonkey

Damn formatting errors! Let me try that again

My point is that the original post showed an image that depicts the invasiveness of the sonogram procedure in order to invoke an emotional response. The actual abortion procedure is even more invasive. Showing pictures of things like this in order to invoke an emotional response is the anti-abortion movement's method of choice for getting their point across and I don't like it. The fact that the sonogram procedure is FORCED is enough for me to be against it.

Some people think it's one of those external sonograms, because that's what they are familiar with as something pregnant women get. Clarity is important.

re: #565 chunkymonkey

And just to be extra clear, I'd be against a law that required women to do anything against their will in order to have an abortion, no matter how trivial or invasive. The degree of invasiveness of the requirement is not a factor.

So you were just being crass for its own sake.

573 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:57:39am

...I am EXTREMELY thankful my mother
choose to carry me full term!!
Think about it....
Just sayin!
Hope y'all have a great weekend!

574 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 9:58:28am

re: #569 Simply Sarah

And if you re: #562 chunkymonkey

Look, I really want to take your statements as all being genuine, but it's really hard for me to do so when you start making those types of arguments. First off, most abortions aren't nearly as invasive as you seem to be making them out to be and they are far less invasive than many other common medical procedures.

Seriously. A lot of this absurd voyeurism over "invasive procedures" is just concern trolling, and a bunch'a baloney.

575 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:01:07am

re: #573 reloadingisnotahobby

...I am EXTREMELY thankful my mother
choose to carry me full term!!
Think about it...
Just sayin!
Hope y'all have a great weekend!

If she hadn't you wouldn't know about it, would you. Think about that.

576 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:01:25am

re: #573 reloadingisnotahobby

...I am EXTREMELY thankful my mother
choose to carry me full term!!
Think about it...

And if she had chosen that and you ended up miscarried or extremely premature, what would that prove?

BTW, coerced "choice" out of lack of options, by definition, is no choice at all. Think about that.

577 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:01:43am

re: #571 Obdicut

First of all, it is being shown primarily to show the gravity of what happens. That it is not a minimal experience. You're calling that an 'emotional response', but in fact it's information that causes most people to have an emotional response. It's not something that can be helped, but the main reason is showing what it actually means to get a sonogram in this fashion.

It actually is an overly emotional response. That is exactly what the supporters of the law want: emotional responses.

As if women don't have enough going on in their minds during that period: oh wait, they're just a bunch of sluts who don't have a care in the world and are just doing this for birth control. Let's play to their emotions and see if we can open their heart to the little life inside them.

Putting up a high school textbook illustration showing the procedure is being factual.

578 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:02:06am

How to alienate moderate voters: Here comes the Cavalry. #occupywallst day 12 report.

Youtube Video

Preaching revolution, military industrial complex, radical bullshit.
Cornel West

West has called the U.S. a "racist patriarchal" nation where "white supremacy" continues to define everyday life. "White America," he writes, "has been historically weak-willed in ensuring racial justice and has continued to resist fully accepting the humanity of blacks." This has resulted, he claims, in the creation of many "degraded and oppressed people hungry for identity, meaning, and self-worth." Professor West attributes most of the black community's problems to "existential angst derive[d] from the lived experience of ontological wounds and emotional scars inflicted by white supremacist beliefs and images permeating U.S. society and culture."[31]

In West's view, the September 11, 2001 attacks gave white Americans a glimpse of what it means to be a black person in the United States—feeling "unsafe, unprotected, subject to random violence, and hatred" for who they are.[32

You moonbat idiots better hope this dies out soon. I know I have no hope of convincing the lefties that this is going to hurt them politically but it legitimizes the Tea Party-Fox News narrative and it's going to cost votes.

579 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:02:20am

CM was simply pointing out what he considered flaws in an argument for a practice he otherwise agrees with. I disagree with his conclusions, but share his support for freedom of choice.

I understand that it is a vry touchy issue, and one that is under attack from people who will listen to no arguments.

580 chunkymonkey  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:04:45am

re: #569 Simply Sarah

And if you re: #562 chunkymonkey

Look, I really want to take your statements as all being genuine, but it's really hard for me to do so when you start making those types of arguments. First off, most abortions aren't nearly as invasive as you seem to be making them out to be and they are far less invasive than many other common medical procedures.

Right, but they ARE often more invasive than the sonogram procedure depicted above. The picture above is there solely to get an emotional rise out of the viewer. It serves no other purpose.

Second, when the target of attack is under attack, in part, because it's a physically and emotionally invasive act forced on a woman against her will, uh, it's hard not to involve emotion in that. It's at the very heart of the issue.

Sure, that's true. But I honestly don't care about that. I don't think a woman who is seeking an abortion should be subjected to ANY coercive measures.

Finally, all that aside, the way to fix an argument that's overly emotional isn't to make it even more emotional in some bizarre concept of balance. That's ridiculous.

Ha! That was sort of my point. The way to fix it is to make it less emotional. The idiots in TX want to force women to undergo a sonogram for no reasonable purpose in order for them to get an abortion. For me, that's it, I'm against it.

581 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:05:49am

re: #580 chunkymonkey

Right, but they ARE often more invasive than the sonogram procedure depicted above. The picture above is there solely to get an emotional rise out of the viewer. It serves no other purpose.

Why on earth do you believe that? You don't think that when someone hears 'sonogram' they might think it was external, and that this helps to actually show what happens?

You don't think it's factual and informative?

582 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:05:57am

re: #578 Killgore Trout

How to alienate moderate voters: Here comes the Cavalry. #occupywallst day 12 report.

Youtube Video
=player_embedded
Preaching revolution, military industrial complex, radical bullshit.
Cornel West

You moonbat idiots better hope this dies out soon. I know I have no hope of convincing the lefties that this is going to hurt them politically but it legitimizes the Tea Party-Fox News narrative and it's going to cost votes.

You've convinced this lefty that having bullshit like that get spouted does us no favors in the long or short term.

583 Ghazicide  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:05:59am

re: #573 reloadingisnotahobby

...I am EXTREMELY thankful my mother
choose to carry me full term!!
Think about it...
Just sayin!
Hope y'all have a great weekend!

If she didn't carry you to full term, would you be ungrateful?

584 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:06:03am

I'm not in disagreement with anyone here....I paid for two...back in the 80's!
Regrets?? No, but my life would be so very different than what it is today!
....Guilt ? Yes....

585 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:06:51am

re: #578 Killgore Trout

How to alienate moderate voters: Here comes the Cavalry. #occupywallst day 12 report.

Youtube Video
=player_embedded
Preaching revolution, military industrial complex, radical bullshit.
Cornel West

You moonbat idiots better hope this dies out soon. I know I have no hope of convincing the lefties that this is going to hurt them politically but it legitimizes the Tea Party-Fox News narrative and it's going to cost votes.

Oh yeah. That's some real radical shit there.

[Rolls eyes.]

586 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:07:31am

re: #583 BigPapa

If she didn't carry you to full term, would you be ungrateful?

Great question!!LOL

587 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:09:24am

re: #578 Killgore Trout

How to alienate moderate voters:
...it legitimizes the Tea Party-Fox News narrative and it's going to cost votes.

e_e

Considering the wingnuts screwing up the current GOP ticket, I'd say they are far ahead anything West can do in "alienating moderate voters."

After all, this is the guy mad because he literally did not get an engraved invitation to the inauguration. Your concerns have been noted, though. I appreciate the altruism behind them.

588 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:09:56am

re: #582 jamesfirecat

You've convinced this lefty that having bullshit like that get spouted does us no favors in the long or short term.

Thanks, but it's unfortunately rare. When LGF was still a right wing blog we tried to warn them about the Tea Party. Very few people will listen. It's a frustrating aspect of American politics. It just seems most people rely on base instincts and partisan catch phrases with no ability to see beyond their own impulses.

589 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:10:19am

re: #580 chunkymonkey

The picture above is there solely to get an emotional rise out of the viewer. It serves no other purpose.

Well, be specific. It got an emotional rise out of you, and that's your issue. Right?

590 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:13:23am

re: #580 chunkymonkey

Right, but they ARE often more invasive than the sonogram procedure depicted above.

So are a lot of medical procedures. Do you get this emotional about those?

591 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:13:42am

re: #588 Killgore Trout

Thanks, but it's unfortunately rare. When LGF was still a right wing blog we tried to warn them about the Tea Party. Very few people will listen. It's a frustrating aspect of American politics. It just seems most people rely on base instincts and partisan catch phrases with no ability to see beyond their own impulses.

Not all of us

592 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:14:13am

re: #584 reloadingisnotahobby

I'm not in disagreement with anyone here...I paid for two...back in the 80's!
Regrets?? No, but my life would be so very different than what it is today!
...Guilt ? Yes...

I let the Russian government pay for two abortions in the early 90's. I remember asking my girlfriend in Moscow about contraception, she said she didn't like to use anything available, she could always get an abortion...

So she got pregnant. Twice. I never told her she should get an abortion, but neither did I make any active offer to assist her with raising the kid(s).

I suppose I might've stayed on longer in Moscow, as I could not run out on my kids (part of ther reason I am living here in Germany is to be close to my four kids, the last of which my ex wanted to abort, but I talked her out of it.)

593 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:14:25am

re: #580 chunkymonkey

Right, but they ARE often more invasive than the sonogram procedure depicted above. The picture above is there solely to get an emotional rise out of the viewer. It serves no other purpose.
...

I should also say that, to many women, the sonogram would be much more invasive purely because it's a forced procedure against their will.

Beyond that, I just don't follow. I had two wisdom teeth removed last year. That's surgery and is, of course, semi-invasive. Now, let's say that a law was passed that before a woman had this done, she had to be groped by the doctor. By your line of reasoning, pointing out how utterly outrageous and what a huge invasion of my personal and emotional privacy such an act would be sounds like something you'd consider to be an overly emotional argument, since you'd likely deem it "less invasive" than the actual surgery.

594 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:14:39am

re: #588 Killgore Trout

Thanks, but it's unfortunately rare. When LGF was still a right wing blog we tried to warn them about the Tea Party. Very few people will listen. It's a frustrating aspect of American politics. It just seems most people rely on base instincts and partisan catch phrases with no ability to see beyond their own impulses.

How? By sitting front of the computer all day and making comments at LGF?

595 albusteve  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:15:31am

re: #588 Killgore Trout

Thanks, but it's unfortunately rare. When LGF was still a right wing blog we tried to warn them about the Tea Party. Very few people will listen. It's a frustrating aspect of American politics. It just seems most people rely on base instincts and partisan catch phrases with no ability to see beyond their own impulses.

agree entirely

596 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:15:45am

re: #584 reloadingisnotahobby

I'm not in disagreement with anyone here...I paid for two...back in the 80's!
Regrets?? No, but my life would be so very different than what it is today!
...Guilt ? Yes...

Did you post #573 out of guilt feelings?

597 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:15:56am

re: #595 albusteve

agree entirely

:-)

598 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:17:04am

re: #588 Killgore Trout

Thanks, but it's unfortunately rare. When LGF was still a right wing blog we tried to warn them about the Tea Party. Very few people will listen. It's a frustrating aspect of American politics. It just seems most people rely on base instincts and partisan catch phrases with no ability to see beyond their own impulses.

Yep. Just like Bush invading Iraq.

599 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:19:16am

re: #506 chunkymonkey

But no matter how you stack it, both procedures are "invasive vaginal procedures."

Let's be blunt -- penetrative sex is an invasive vaginal procedure. So is a Pap smear.

Think about the differences between consensual sex and having the state force an ultrasound wand up a woman's vagina to satisfy some Neanderthal misogynist assholes, then get back to me.

600 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:19:36am

re: #588 Killgore Trout

Thanks, but it's unfortunately rare. When LGF was still a right wing blog we tried to warn them about the Tea Party. Very few people will listen. It's a frustrating aspect of American politics. It just seems most people rely on base instincts and partisan catch phrases with no ability to see beyond their own impulses.

The only thing I have a problem with in your statements and this is an issue for another day is that I think the "military industrial complex" is not something that should be considered out and out "radical bullshit" in and of itself. As of 2009 America was spending 42.8 % of the worlds total expenditure on military spending [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] so I do think it'd be silly to say that happened by accident.

Now obviously I don't claim that there's a shadowy cabal of companies that are secretly in charge of the US that are going to pull the necessary strings to get us into wars to drive up their own profits. I'm just saying that there's are people who make money building weapons and to claim they don't have a voice in Washington would be silly.

Sorry about picking a nit with such a small part of your post but I don't think all complaints about the "military industrial complex" are moonbat lunacy the way one might comprehend your phrasing (and if you meant it some other way I'm sorry I failed to grasp your point).

601 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:20:06am

re: #585 Gus 802

Oh yeah. That's some real radical shit there.

[Rolls eyes.]

Really. Like Cornel West and Michael Moore are going to swing an election.

You know I respect you, KT, but you're giving these guys way too much gravitas. (I was going to use 'weight' in place of 'gravitas,' then realized I was unwittingly writing another Michael Moore joke.)

602 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:21:25am

re: #593 Simply Sarah

I should also say that, to many women, the sonogram would be much more invasive purely because it's a forced procedure against their will.

Government-forced, on top of it.

This, to these venal states rights cons, is supposedly "limited government".

Meanwhile, they get to run roughshod over whomever they g.d. well please and none of their targets is ever supposed to have a say.

604 Gus  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:22:18am

That's my cue to take a break... again. It's getting to be a pattern. Later.

605 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:23:10am

Report: IAF jets circled over Turkish ship

A crew onboard a Turkish exploration ship searching for gas reservoirs near Cyprus claimed that two Israeli aircraft and a helicopter circled above them on Thursday night,

I bet a few people on that ship had to change their underwear.

606 albusteve  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:23:13am

re: #603 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich: Gay Marriage Is A 'Temporary Aberration That Will Dissipate'

so is Newt

607 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:23:25am

re: #603 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich: Gay Marriage Is A 'Temporary Aberration That Will Dissipate'

Newt Gingrich's political career was a temporary aberration that people thought would dissipate. Unfortunately, we were wrong.

608 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:23:58am

re: #600 jamesfirecat

...I don't think all complaints about the "military industrial complex" are moonbat lunacy the way one might comprehend your phrasing (and if you meant it some other way I'm sorry I failed to grasp your point).

Besides, afaik, it wasn't exactly a moonbat radical in need of conservative guidance, wisdom and restraint, who popularized the phrase.

609 albusteve  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:24:09am

re: #607 Lidane

Newt Gingrich's political career was a temporary aberration that people thought would dissipate. Unfortunately, we were wrong.

you give Newt too much gravitas

610 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:24:51am

re: #607 Lidane

Newt Gingrich's political career was a temporary aberration that people thought would dissipate. Unfortunately, we were wrong.

It's a bit like a cold sore. Clears up for a while, but it's always just waiting there to come back and be annoying for a while before disappearing again.

611 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:24:59am

re: #608 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Besides, afaik, it wasn't exactly a moonbat radical in need of conservative guidance, wisdom and restraint, who popularized the phrase.

No, it was Dwight D. Eisenhower.

Youtube Video
612 Kragar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:25:26am

Deadbeat Congressman says concealed carry laws are last line of defense against big government

Rep. Joe Walsh (R-IL) told an audience in Illinois that he was ashamed of his state for not allowing concealed handguns, warning that they were the “last line of defense” if Americans need to revolt against their government.

“We are an embarrassment (in Illinois),” Walsh said Tuesday night at a Tea Party rally, according to The Daily Herald. “We are the last state standing when it comes to concealed carry. There’s no issue when it comes to freedom that matters like this, like the Second Amendment. The most important amendment in that Bill of Rights is the Second Amendment. It protects every other amendment. It is the last line of defense between us and our government.”

I'm guessing they also come in handy when you try to get subpoenaed for not paying child support.

613 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:26:01am

re: #610 Simply Sarah

It's a bit like a cold sore. Clears up for a while, but it's always just waiting there to come back and be annoying for a while before disappearing again.

Newt Gingrich: The Herpes of American Politics

614 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:26:33am

re: #607 Lidane

Newt Gingrich's political career was a temporary aberration that people thought would dissipate. Unfortunately, we were wrong.

Newt "Obama is a Mao Mao Luo Tribesman Who Hates British Colonials"/"Poor Me, I Only Have Two 500K lines of Credit at Tiffany's" is like that clichéd bad penny.

Is he even polling above 1% these days?

615 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:27:07am

re: #611 NJDhockeyfan

No Yes, it was Dwight D. Eisenhower.

[Video]

fixed

616 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:29:07am

re: #614 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Newt "Obama is a Mao Mao Luo Tribesman Who Hates British Colonials"/"Poor Me, I Only Have Two 500K lines of Credit at Tiffany's" is like that clichéd bad penny.

Is he even polling above 1% these days?

I guess he is experiencing a bump in light of Perry's faltering performances, perhaps up to over 2%...

617 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:31:17am

re: #601 makeitstop

Really. Like Cornel West and Michael Moore are going to swing an election.

Nooo! Creeping moonbattery!

///

618 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:32:26am

re: #601 makeitstop

Really. Like Cornel West and Michael Moore are going to swing an election.

Especially when both Cornel West and Michael Moore are currently busy bitching at Obama for not being liberal enough.

619 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:32:48am

This headline will help Perry's poll ratings: [Link: www.newsmax.com...]

620 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:34:19am

re: #617 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The problem isn't that those jackasses are speaking, but that they're being picked up as the public face of what's going on. I'm not going to attend a protest with ANSWER signs and Workers World Party banners.

621 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:35:06am

re: #601 makeitstop

I was going to use 'weight' in place of 'gravitas,' then realized I was unwittingly writing another Michael Moore joke.

You are, as in: "Another helping of biscuits and gravitas, Mr Moore?"

622 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:36:32am

re: #620 Obdicut

The problem isn't that those jackasses are speaking, but that they're being picked up as the public face of what's going on. I'm not going to attend a protest with ANSWER signs and Workers World Party banners.

And being held up as the very personification and paragon of leftist thought.

623 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:36:51am

The wingnut 'stache opened his pie hole again:

John Bolton Does His Best To Downplay Obama’s Killing Of Awlaki

624 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:36:58am
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.

As usual, Frank rocks.

How is the afternoon going so far, Lizards?

625 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:38:05am

re: #622 ralphieboy

And being held up as the very personification and paragon of leftist thought.

The problem is also that there's plenty of moderate 'liberals' speaking, but the media isn't paying any attention to them, because the media loves the batshit stuff. The media has abandoned any pretense of being a moderating force in politics, having some sort of responsibility, and is just going for spectacle.

626 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:38:23am

re: #578 Killgore Trout

How to alienate moderate voters: Here comes the Cavalry. #occupywallst day 12 report.

Youtube Video
=player_embedded
Preaching revolution, military industrial complex, radical bullshit.
Cornel West

You moonbat idiots better hope this dies out soon. I know I have no hope of convincing the lefties that this is going to hurt them politically but it legitimizes the Tea Party-Fox News narrative and it's going to cost votes.

Better hope what dies off?

627 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:38:44am

re: #624 ggt

As usual, Frank rocks.

How is the afternoon going so far, Lizards?

IS IT AFTERNOON ALREADY?!?

Oh, not here, yet.

I gotta get to work. I can't even finish reading the menopause article you posted, fascinating as it is. Back later.

628 albusteve  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:39:09am

re: #623 Lidane

The wingnut 'stache opened his pie hole again:

John Bolton Does His Best To Downplay Obama’s Killing Of Awlaki

man, you got it bad

629 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:39:10am

re: #587 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

e_e

Considering the wingnuts screwing up the current GOP ticket, I'd say they are far ahead anything West can do in "alienating moderate voters."

After all, this is the guy mad because he literally did not get an engraved invitation to the inauguration. Your concerns have been noted, though. I appreciate the altruism behind them.

Please tell me the bolded is an exaggeration. That sounds too stupid to be true.

630 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:39:35am

re: #588 Killgore Trout

Thanks, but it's unfortunately rare. When LGF was still a right wing blog we tried to warn them about the Tea Party. Very few people will listen. It's a frustrating aspect of American politics. It just seems most people rely on base instincts and partisan catch phrases with no ability to see beyond their own impulses.

Base instincts. Like your desire for all out war on any nation or group that looks at us wrong?

631 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:40:28am

re: #625 Obdicut

The problem is also that there's plenty of moderate 'liberals' speaking, but the media isn't paying any attention to them, because the media loves the batshit stuff. The media has abandoned any pretense of being a moderating force in politics, having some sort of responsibility, and is just going for spectacle.

Their pretense is that as long as they show examples of the extremes on what tend to be identified as the right and the left, they're functioning as a moderating force. Of course, who defines what is extreme...

632 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:40:36am

re: #620 Obdicut

The problem isn't that those jackasses are speaking, but that they're being picked up as the public face of what's going on. I'm not going to attend a protest with ANSWER signs and Workers World Party banners.

Stupid ANSWER, feh. Haven't been to one of those things since they kicked them off in the early 00s.

I would have gone yesterday, though, had I could have made it; to document, and see for myself instead of relying on either what's presented as the public face, or some breathless report of the latest utterances of Cornel West. As if he's going to somehow turn an entire general election because of some crap he said at a rally.

I don't buy that for a millisecond.

633 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:41:12am

re: #594 Gus 802

How? By sitting front of the computer all day and making comments at LGF?

That can have an impact. Don't denigrate it (even by adding "all day" when that's obviously not the case.)

634 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:41:24am

re: #630 recusancy

Base instincts. Like your desire for all out war on any nation or group that looks at us wrong?

What a lovely strawman you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it.

635 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:42:15am

re: #633 wrenchwench

That can have an impact. Don't denigrate it (even by adding "all day" when that's obviously not the case.)

I take a half-hour lunch break and fifteen minutes for coffee in the afternoons...

636 albusteve  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:42:18am

re: #630 recusancy

Base instincts. Like your desire for all out war on any nation or group that looks at us wrong?

that pretty much proves KT's point

637 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:42:27am

re: #633 wrenchwench

That can have an impact. Don't denigrate it (even by adding "all day" when that's obviously not the case.)

Commenting on a blog can have an impact?

638 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:43:10am

re: #628 albusteve

Boredom at work? Yeah. It happens sometimes.

639 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:43:14am

re: #637 recusancy

Commenting on a blog can have an impact?

on your social life, yes...

640 darthstar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:43:51am

re: #628 albusteve

man, you got it bad

It's only because Obama is so soft on terror that people have to get defensive and claim he has successfully gone after people like Osama bin Laden. /

641 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:43:56am

re: #629 ProLifeLiberal

Please tell me the bolded is an exaggeration. That sounds too stupid to be true.

Sadly, no.

Last paragraph, first page

But you really should read the whole thing. There's a bunch more b.s. in there.

642 Kragar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:44:01am

re: #637 recusancy

Commenting on a blog can have an impact?

Only if you're a left wing progressive. Right wing blogs have never influenced anyone to take any action ever.*

*sorry, but the sponsors make you say that because of liability laws

643 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:44:10am

re: #627 wrenchwench

IS IT AFTERNOON ALREADY?!?

Oh, not here, yet.

I gotta get to work. I can't even finish reading the menopause article you posted, fascinating as it is. Back later.

Well, I thought it should be required reading for all family members --LOL!

644 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:45:05am

re: #641 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sadly, no.

Last paragraph, first page

But you really should read the whole thing. There's a bunch more b.s. in there.

West is a freaking nut.

645 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:45:16am

re: #563 lostlakehiker

The rank and file of denialists include people just as smart, but busy with their own lives and ignorant for lack of time and effort. Not culpably ignorant.

I drew that distinction here.

646 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:45:39am

re: #637 recusancy

Commenting on a blog can have an impact?

Reading comments on a blog has had an impact on me. Specifically on what I thought of tea partiers, very early on, specifically because of what KT was posting.

Commenting on a blog has had an impact on me. I am more articulate, sharper, and a slightly better typist than I was.

If you think it's a waste of time, what the fuck are you doing here?

OK, I have to go fix bikes now.

647 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:47:00am

What is everyone debating discussing? Please don't make me read the whole thread .

648 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:48:03am

re: #644 recusancy

And a nut with an ego the size of Jupiter.

He played little to no role in Obama's election.

649 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:48:03am

re: #646 wrenchwench

Reading comments on a blog has had an impact on me. Specifically on what I thought of tea partiers, very early on, specifically because of what KT was posting.

Commenting on a blog has had an impact on me. I am more articulate, sharper, and a slightly better typist than I was.

If you think it's a waste of time, what the fuck are you doing here?

OK, I have to go fix bikes now.

I'm here because I find it interesting. I don't have an impact beyond the fact of convincing a few people an anonymous person with the handle "recusancy" is an asshole.

650 Kragar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:49:51am

re: #647 ggt

What is everyone debating discussing? Please don't make me read the whole thread .

Tau or Tyranids? Who should I use this weekend?

651 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:50:50am

re: #632 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

BUt that's not the point Killgore is making. There are plenty of radicals on the lefty side. They've been shut out of any real political importance for a long time, but stuff like this gives them the chance to seize center-stage, just like the Tea Party did on the GOP side.

652 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:50:53am

re: #650 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Tau or Tyranids? Who should I use this weekend?

I don't know Kragar, it's a tough choice.

I'd go with one syllable, gut reaction.

653 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:51:49am

re: #644 recusancy

West is a freaking nut.

At this point, he's become just another celebrity prof, who has gone off the rails, imo. He's also quickly becoming the latest Emmanuel Goldstein for the rwnj.

That is, when they along with the moonbat left they hate aren't actively tokenizing him as One of the Blacks Critical of Obama™

/eyeroll

It never takes very much, with either bunch.

654 albusteve  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:52:32am

re: #638 Lidane

Boredom at work? Yeah. It happens sometimes.

no, your propensity to attack, berate and belittle everybody you disagree with...but then every time I criticize BO, I'm deranged....that's some hysteria

655 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:53:26am

Thing about Cornell West. Every time I've seen him on a C-SPAN show or anywhere else, I don't understand a thing he says.

I hear the words, I understand them, but I can't make sense of the whole.

656 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:53:43am

re: #651 Obdicut

BUt that's not the point Killgore is making. There are plenty of radicals on the lefty side. They've been shut out of any real political importance for a long time, but stuff like this gives them the chance to seize center-stage, just like the Tea Party did on the GOP side.

Stuff like what? I guess my question is, do you mean the left should never have demonstrations without it being coordinated and filtered? Because anytime you have a free demonstration people will show up with stupid shit to say unrelated to the demonstration.

657 Lidane  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:55:04am

re: #654 albusteve

Whatever it takes to get you through the day, dude. It's all good.

658 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:56:09am

Oh Crap --there is a Monster Puppy update at #399.

Since you are one of his big supporters, thought you'd like to know.

659 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:56:46am

re: #651 Obdicut

BUt that's not the point Killgore is making. There are plenty of radicals on the lefty side. They've been shut out of any real political importance for a long time, but stuff like this gives them the chance to seize center-stage, just like the Tea Party did on the GOP side.

Although, it's not just like the tea party did. Cornel West can chirp at the world from his tenured perch at Princeton, or from his traveling poverty roadshow, till the cows come home. I seriously doubt he, or ANSWER, or WWP is going to get the kind of financial backing, political clout, or even outsized media attention that the tea party did.

I don't think KT's fingerwagging is out of any altruism for the moonbat lefty set.

660 Kragar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:57:57am

re: #652 ggt

I don't know Kragar, it's a tough choice.

I'd go with one syllable, gut reaction.

Yeah, but most people call Tyranids Nids, so its a quandry.

661 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:58:29am

re: #656 recusancy

Stuff like what? I guess my question is, do you mean the left should never have demonstrations without it being coordinated and filtered?

Yes, basically. Or have no sign zones. but most of all, to make it clear which groups are acceptable. WWP should not be acceptable. They are off-the-scale political lunacy.

Because anytime you have a free demonstration people will show up with stupid shit to say unrelated to the demonstration.

Sure, but counterprotesters will also show up-- you don't have to let them in. The WWP and ANSWER are liabilities, not assets, for the mainstream left. They are not ideological friends, either. They are like Ron Paul fans, and should be excluded. The GOP would be in much better shape if they'd sanitized themselves.

662 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:59:16am

re: #658 ggt

Oh Crap --there is a Monster Puppy update at #399.

Since you are one of his big supporters, thought you'd like to know.

Aww, Monster Puppy. I am going to see Big Puppy tomorrow. I'll try to remember to snap some pictures.

663 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 10:59:43am

re: #644 recusancy

West is a freaking nut.

Brilliant man with a very thin skin.

664 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:00:31am

re: #660 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, but most people call Tyranids Nids, so its a quandry.

I agree. It's a really tough choice.

665 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:00:59am

re: #660 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, but most people call Tyranids Nids, so its a quandry.

Everyone you know is part of a certain cult.
/

666 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:02:00am

re: #661 Obdicut

Yes, basically. Or have no sign zones. but most of all, to make it clear which groups are acceptable. WWP should not be acceptable. They are off-the-scale political lunacy.

Sure, but counterprotesters will also show up-- you don't have to let them in. The WWP and ANSWER are liabilities, not assets, for the mainstream left. They are not ideological friends, either. They are like Ron Paul fans, and should be excluded. The GOP would be in much better shape if they'd sanitized themselves.

Well, I don't really think this demonstration is the mainstream left's doing.

667 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:02:14am

re: #659 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, when you attempt to be psychic over TCP/IP and guess at people's intentions, you're venturing into territory I find silly.

His point is perfectly good. Letting the radicals be the face of protest is not good. Unfortunately, aside from Obama, there's relatively view highly visible 'lefty' people. I think that's mainly the fault of the media, but also the lack of important people on the left who really connect with people.

668 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:03:43am

re: #667 Obdicut

Well, when you attempt to be psychic over TCP/IP and guess at people's intentions, you're venturing into territory I find silly.

Which RFC is that in?
/

669 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:04:54am

re: #666 recusancy

Well, I don't really think this demonstration is the mainstream left's doing.

True. So part of the problem really is that the mainstream left should be protesting, but instead are ceding the stage to the nutty. It's a rough situation. I thought the Wisconsin protests in the main helped people engage with issues facing unions, I think it did long-term good.

A large part of the problem has been the complacency of the mainstream left, or the cowedness of it, whichever version you believe.

670 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:05:21am

THIS IS QUITE SERIOUS!!!!!!

I am totally sincere in this.

671 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:05:39am

re: #661 Obdicut

Yes, basically. Or have no sign zones. but most of all, to make it clear which groups are acceptable. WWP should not be acceptable. They are off-the-scale political lunacy.

Sure, but counterprotesters will also show up-- you don't have to let them in. The WWP and ANSWER are liabilities, not assets, for the mainstream left. They are not ideological friends, either. They are like Ron Paul fans, and should be excluded. The GOP would be in much better shape if they'd sanitized themselves.

Part of the issue with ANSWER/WWP -creep is, no one among the protest set learned the lessons of the 00s antiwar protests, which went largely uncovered in the US press. The lesson would have been, kick the nutbags out of your movement, because they discredit you.

Now, looks like we've got the opposite situation, where protests are getting some coverage. I do not trust that coverage, not even from Our Liberal Media, known for such even-handed stories on such matters. //

672 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:06:19am

re: #661 Obdicut

Yes, basically. Or have no sign zones. but most of all, to make it clear which groups are acceptable. WWP should not be acceptable. They are off-the-scale political lunacy.

Sure, but counterprotesters will also show up-- you don't have to let them in. The WWP and ANSWER are liabilities, not assets, for the mainstream left. They are not ideological friends, either. They are like Ron Paul fans, and should be excluded. The GOP would be in much better shape if they'd sanitized themselves.

Kinda like I would really not want Oathkeepers booth at a RW rally or protest.

673 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:07:04am

re: #667 Obdicut

Well, when you attempt to be psychic over TCP/IP and guess at people's intentions, you're venturing into territory I find silly.

His point is perfectly good. Letting the radicals be the face of protest is not good. Unfortunately, aside from Obama, there's relatively view highly visible 'lefty' people. I think that's mainly the fault of the media, but also the lack of important people on the left who really connect with people.

Here's someone. It's only one person but it's a start.

674 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:07:18am

re: #667 Obdicut

Well, when you attempt to be psychic over TCP/IP and guess at people's intentions, you're venturing into territory I find silly.

His point is perfectly good. Letting the radicals be the face of protest is not good. Unfortunately, aside from Obama, there's relatively view highly visible 'lefty' people. I think that's mainly the fault of the media, but also the lack of important people on the left who really connect with people.

Saying I don't trust the ire behind fingerwagging is no Miss Cleo effort on my part; as long as that's my perspective, I'll continue to express it.

We're actually agreed on the rest.

675 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:07:51am

re: #673 recusancy

Heh. I was just thinking about her. I think I'm close enough to be useful to her campaign. I hope she gets more and more attention.

676 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:09:56am

re: #675 Obdicut

Heh. I was just thinking about her. I think I'm close enough to be useful to her campaign. I hope she gets more and more attention.

Well, at least locally she seems to be doing all right (And polling well). Haven't paid much attention to what, if anything, is being said about her nationally, though.

677 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:11:03am

re: #676 Simply Sarah

Well, at least locally she seems to be doing all right (And polling well). Haven't paid much attention to what, if anything, is being said about her nationally, though.

National doesn't matter. She's running in MA and MA only.

678 Kragar  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:11:56am

re: #665 Varek Raith

Everyone you know is part of a certain cult.
/

True.

679 makeitstopghazi  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:12:51am

re: #669 Obdicut

True. So part of the problem really is that the mainstream left should be protesting, but instead are ceding the stage to the nutty. It's a rough situation. I thought the Wisconsin protests in the main helped people engage with issues facing unions, I think it did long-term good.

A large part of the problem has been the complacency of the mainstream left, or the cowedness of it, whichever version you believe.

The bottom line as I see it - the media will skew any center-left protest as being crawling with nutjobs. You could get every high-profile centrist in the country to OWS, and they'll still focus in on the kids with the pierced eyebrows.

That's how the media rolls in this country, unfortunately.

Oh, and BTW - this was posted earlier, but I'll re-post.

NYPD Commander Anthony Bologna Pepper Sprays Citizens In Second Video

I'm thinking the guy's got rage issues, and they should take away his pepper spray and make him go sit in the corner.

680 Simply Sarah  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:12:58am

re: #677 recusancy

National doesn't matter. She's running in MA and MA only.

Sure, but I took Obdicut to be saying he wished she would get more general exposure as an example of someone on the left. I may have misunderstood what he meant, though.

681 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:13:59am

re: #680 Simply Sarah

No, I think she has reasonable, national appeal. But with firmness and strength.

682 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:14:01am

re: #669 Obdicut

There's also this: [Link: www.facebook.com...] They understand that the crazy needs to be limited.

683 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:21:05am

re: #682 recusancy

Who are they? Who runs them? I'm really leery of any organization that doesn't immediately let me find that out. Claims of it being a truly distributed enterprise are wildly dubious.

684 recusancy  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:23:28am

re: #683 Obdicut

Who are they? Who runs them? I'm really leery of any organization that doesn't immediately let me find that out. Claims of it being a truly distributed enterprise are wildly dubious.

I don't know. I was just pointing out that one post. FAQ is here: [Link: www.occupytogether.org...]

685 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 11:26:27am

re: #684 recusancy

Yeah, I know. They don't reveal the identities of the founders. Transparency fail.

686 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 12:34:22pm

re: #241 Cannadian Club Akbar

If your chute fails they give you another one.

If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you.

(can't remember where I heard that)

OR
Q: Why don't blind people skydive?
A: It scares the hell out of the dogs.

687 leftynyc  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 12:39:35pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Jon Stewart depends on the NYPD to keep his apartment from being burned down around his ears. I do hope he remembers that.

Other than Kristin Gillibrand, nobody did more to fight for and shine light on the issue of first responders than Jon Stewart. Something tells me that will mean more to them than protecting this piece of shit cop who seems to like abusing his position.


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