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New Hawaii Sen. Brian Schatz: Climate Change Is the “Most Urgent Challenge of Our Generation”

From a state that will feel the effects first
Environment • Views: 32,781

The new Senator from Hawaii, Brian Schatz, is promising to do something about one of America’s most intractable issues: New Hawaii Senator Pledges to Tackle Climate Change.

Sen. Schatz is about to find out how determined and irrational the climate change denial movement is in Washington DC, but he has our support. Give ‘em hell, Senator.

The replacement for the late Hawaii Sen. Daniel Inouye (D) said Wednesday that climate change is at the top of his legislative agenda.

“For me, personally, I believe global climate change is real and it is the most urgent challenge of our generation,” Lt. Gov. Brian Schatz (D), whom Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie (D) tapped for the seat, said in brief comments Wednesday.

Schatz is expected to be sworn in Thursday afternoon. He will serve until 2014, and plans to run for the special election to fill the remaining two years of Inouye’s term. Schatz also said he would run for a full term in 2016.

Schatz will serve with incoming Sen. Rep. Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), who is replacing retiring Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii).

Hirono and Schatz likely will both champion climate change.

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432 comments

1 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:17:20pm

Makes sense. Hawaii is a bunch of islands, when the sea rises they will be the first to get wet.

2 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:18:36pm

Perhaps my doomy and gloomy self is over-coloring his future, but I expect Sen. Schatz to learn soon enough that he won't be a position to do anything about it. Oh, he'll talk the talk for a while (like Kerry), but when push comes to shove, the vote will be controlled by $$$.

3 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:19:29pm

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

More to the point, HI is well beyond it's "carrying capacity" as far as being inherently able to support its population. It depends upon imports for many vital items.

4 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:25:19pm

Meanwhile, we have complete morons citing evidence of climate change as proof that its not happening.

5 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:26:12pm

re: #3 freetoken

More to the point, HI is well beyond it's "carrying capacity" as far as being inherently able to support its population. It depends upon imports for many vital items.

Good point. Of course the thing to do here would be to make Hawaii self sustaining but that's not going to happen. People want imported beef, electronics, gasoline, prepackaged snack foods, cars, etc. Hawaiian economy is a great example of why we have global warming in the first place.

6 CarleeCork  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:27:50pm

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

Makes sense. Hawaii is a bunch of islands, when the sea rises they will be the first to get wet.

I believe the correct term is disappear.

7 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:30:29pm

re: #6 CarleeCork

I believe the correct term is disappear.

If Hawaii disappears this will be proof that Obama wasn't born there. It's all part of the conspiracy.

8 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:33:48pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Hawaiian economy is a great example of why we have global warming in the first place.

Yes, it is, along with Las Vegas, Doha, and Shanghai.

On a not unrelated note:

U.S. Population At 315.1 Million On New Year's Day: Census Projection

The rest of my life I expect there to be chaos in the approach to address these big picture items.

9 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:41:59pm

re: #4 Kragar

There's a whole lot of that going around.

Or much more commonly - people who continue to confuse weather for climate (and ignoring that climatologically that things are getting warmer - like this year the planet is going to be warmest on record, 30 years of above average temp data, etc.)

10 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:44:57pm

THIS IS THE DUMBEST TWEET EVER BY THE DUMBEST DUMBASS ON TEH INTERWEBZ

11 sagehen  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:45:24pm

re: #6 CarleeCork

I believe the correct term is disappear.

Maybe some of the little parts of the chain, but even if sea level rose by several thousand feet the big island still wouldn't disappear (although it would get considerably smaller).

12 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:47:20pm

re: #10 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

THIS IS THE DUMBEST TWEET EVER BY THE DUMBEST DUMBASS ON TEH INTERWEBZ

[Embedded content]

That tweet hates on a Latina, demonstrates absurd anger about Islam, and whines about the 'persecution' of Christians. In other words its a Wingnut Trifecta.

13 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:51:04pm

re: #10 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

“It is by God’s grace and provision that Hobby Lobby has endured,” said David Green, founder and CEO. “Therefore we seek to honor God by operating the company in a manner consistent with Biblical principles.”
[Link: www.lifenews.com...]

"Only by directing our female employees' healthcare choices can we be sure."

14 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:55:33pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

That tweet hates on a Latina, demonstrates absurd anger about Islam, and whines about the 'persecution' of Christians. In other words its a Wingnut Trifecta.

Behold the Derpularity...

Epic. Ted Nugent Tells Piers Morgan to “Suck on My Machine Gun!” (Video)

Because nothing is more convincing than a self defecating draft dodger making semi-coherent threats.

15 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:56:27pm

Even if you don't like National Review, you're gonna like this article:

Build the Death Star
Five reasons we need a small moon — wait a minute, that’s no moon . . .

Well, it’s taken 80 years, but the post–New Deal, post-military-industrial-complex mega-state has finally come up with a single good idea: the construction and deployment of a mobile, moon-sized, planet-killing death ray in outer space.

Here is the language of the official petition to build a Death Star–style “space-superiority platform,” submitted to the White House under President Obama’s “We the People” initiative:

Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.

"Those who sign here petition the United States government to secure funding and resources, and begin construction on a Death Star by 2016.

By focusing our defense resources into a space-superiority platform and weapon system such as a Death Star, the government can spur job creation in the fields of construction, engineering, space exploration, and more, and strengthen our national defense."

The signatures, 30,000 and counting, have already far surpassed the number needed to prompt an official response from the White House, and for good reason. Building a Death Star would be wildly popular, and sound policy to boot. If it could be done long ago in a galaxy far, far away, then only a pernicious acquiescence to American declinism would prevent it from happening again here. If President Obama is serious about his legacy, he can, should, must, and will build a 382-million-cubic-kilometer intergalactic doom sphere by the end of this decade.

/Stay on Target!

16 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:56:40pm

re: #13 jaunte

So in other words, pay them what they are due, in both salary and benefits and allow them to make their own health choices?
/

17 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:57:17pm

re: #16 Kragar

Tyranny!

18 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:58:11pm

trying to sort out the sensationalist headlines and soundbites on the fiscal cliff is difficult. Here's the most reasonable article I've come across today....
'Fiscal cliff': Finger-pointing furiously, Congress slouches toward deadline

The way to avert the fiscal cliff is for the House to pass a bill that extends the Bush tax cuts for all but those families earning more than $250,000 in income, he added. The bill passed the Senate last July with no Republican votes.

So, with just five days to go before some $600 billion in tax hikes and spending cuts take hold, congressional leaders are hunkering down in bargaining positions back to where they were before the August break. But at the same time, leaders on both sides of the aisle say that there is flexibility in the system to come to terms even after the Jan. 1 deadline expires.

One approach is for Congress to pass a stopgap measure akin to a “continuing resolution,” which is used to continue spending at current levels until Congress can complete work on a new spending bill, said House minority whip Steny Hoyer (D) of Maryland, after a briefing with reporters on Thursday.

If Congress was close to a deal but ran out of time to draft the legislative language needed to implement it, a 10-day extension could avert the cliff, he said. If Boehner allowed a floor vote on extending all the Bush tax cuts except for those over $250,000, “I think it would pass,” he said.

Another might be for President Obama to direct the Treasury to delay tax hikes unilaterally, until a deal is finalized, a strategy President George H.W. Bush used for a limited period of time when a tax deal with Congress appeared imminent.

19 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:00:34pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

...although I'm unsure anyone in DC has the common sense to avoid catastrophe on this one. I'm preparing for the worst possible scenario.

20 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:04:02pm
21 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:05:23pm

re: #16 Kragar

So in other words, pay them what they are due, in both salary and benefits and allow them to make their own health choices?
/

Look, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to have millions and millions of people who have no health insurance and yet who can go to the emergency room and get entirely free care for which they have no responsibility, particularly if they are people who have sufficient means to pay their own way.

22 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:06:24pm

Off to look for sensationalist headlines.

23 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:07:03pm

Back on topic, courtesy of the Navy, 12 months of sea ice thickness for 2012:

Image: arcticictn_nowcast_anim365d.gif

24 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:07:15pm
25 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:07:16pm

One is Gen. 'Stormin' Norman' Schwarzkopf dies and the other 2012: The year in pictures. That's over at CNN.

26 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:08:10pm

Fox News. Gulf War Leader Schwarzkopf Dies and TIME RUNNING OUT: White House to Host High-Stakes Fiscal Meeting

27 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:08:24pm

Let's try MSNBC.

28 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:08:56pm

re: #27 Gus

When in doubt, there is always WND...

29 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:09:11pm

Year in review: Recalling lives lost in 2012 and 'Stormin' Norman' Schwarzkopf dies at 78

30 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:10:41pm

Proving once again the wingnuts look upon the US Constitution as breathed by God, here is WND's top banner:

NOW CNN ANCHOR WANTS TO AMEND BIBLE
Says Scripture and U.S. Constitution 'inherently flawed'

31 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:10:50pm

re: #28 freetoken

When in doubt, there is always WND...

Fighting the real 'war on women' Activist intent on saving girls in China blasts 1-child policy at every opportunity' and Now CNN anchor wants to amend Bible Says Scripture and U.S. Constitution 'inherently flawed'

32 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:11:33pm

re: #30 freetoken

Proving once again the wingnuts look upon the US Constitution as breathed by God, here is WND's top banner:

NOW CNN ANCHOR WANTS TO AMEND BIBLE
Says Scripture and U.S. Constitution 'inherently flawed'

Professor says execute Pope Benedict
Austrian educator: Penalty appropriate for supporting church doctrine

33 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:11:52pm
34 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:13:17pm

re: #30 freetoken

Proving once again the wingnuts look upon the US Constitution as breathed by God, here is WND's top banner:

NOW CNN ANCHOR WANTS TO AMEND BIBLE
Says Scripture and U.S. Constitution 'inherently flawed'

Sidebar ads: FEMA COFFINS REVEALED, DISASTER PREPARATION, AND 37 THINGS TO HOARD ASAP.

[Eye twitch.]

35 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:21:45pm

Kill two birds with one stone.

Clearly I hate birds.

36 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:23:34pm

re: #3 freetoken

More to the point, HI is well beyond it's "carrying capacity" as far as being inherently able to support its population. It depends upon imports for many vital items.

Oahu will be insane if the global economy breaks down. I don't see it ever being sustainable. The outer islands, possibly.

37 BongCrodny  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:29:48pm

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

Even if you don't like National Review, you're gonna like this article:

Build the Death Star
Five reasons we need a small moon — wait a minute, that’s no moon . . .

/Stay on Target!

Lewis Black thought of it first:

Lewis Black - Big Fucking Thing

38 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:34:47pm

re: #37 BongCrodny

Lewis Black thought of it first:

Lewis Black - Big Fucking Thing

I just finished watching 80 minutes of Bill Hicks earlier. Whew.

39 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:39:34pm

Sorry for the depressing OT, but this is awful:

Indian Teen Who Was Gang-Raped Commits Suicide After Police Refuse to Investigate Attackers

If only she'd been legitimately raped. She wouldn't have had anything to worry about. The police would have believed her right away.

/2012 GOP

40 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:39:44pm

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

Even if you don't like National Review, you're gonna like this article:

Build the Death Star
Five reasons we need a small moon — wait a minute, that’s no moon . . .

/Stay on Target!

Hell, why not. If we can spend ourselves a $1 trillion into the hole on the F-35, I'm sure building a Death Star is not out of the question.

41 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:41:03pm

re: #38 Gus

"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

42 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:41:14pm

re: #40 Targetpractice

Hell, why not. If we can spend ourselves a $1 trillion into the hole on the F-35, I'm sure building a Death Star is not out of the question.

The trick is to distribute component sub-contracts to all the planets of the Federation.

43 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:43:53pm

re: #41 Kragar

"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

Oh but I laughed my fucking ass out.

44 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:48:27pm

re: #43 Gus

You know I've noticed a certain anti-intellectualism going around this country ever since around 1980, coincidentally enough. I was in Nashville, Tennessee last weekend and after the show I went to a waffle house and I'm sitting there and I'm eating and reading a book. I don't know anybody, I'm alone, I'm eating and I'm reading a book. This waitress comes over to me (mocks chewing gum) 'what you readin' for?'...wow, I've never been asked that; not 'What am I reading', 'What am I reading for?' Well, goddamnit, you stumped me...I guess I read for a lot of reasons — the main one is so I don't end up being a fuckin' waffle waitress. Yeah, that would be pretty high on the list. Then this trucker in the booth next to me gets up, stands over me and says [mocks Southern drawl] 'Well, looks like we got ourselves a readah'...aahh, what the fuck's goin' on? It's like I walked into a Klan rally in a Boy George costume or something.

45 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:49:47pm

re: #42 Decatur Deb

The trick is to distribute component sub-contracts to all the planets of the Federation Empire.

fixed

46 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:50:53pm

re: #44 Kragar

Do not jump from this side.

48 BongCrodny  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:55:09pm

re: #38 Gus

I just finished watching 80 minutes of Bill Hicks earlier. Whew.

Maybe a weird introduction, but I swear I had never heard of Bill Hicks until Garth Ennis gave him a shout out in the old comic book Preacher.

"Please don't debate me, it's my one true talent. I have 23 hours to develop this web of conspiracy theory, so please, just relax and enjoy your hair ... Your little cracker spawn are back at the hotel choking down the mini bar contents, probably fucking each other and producing more little crackers to come fuck with my life, you inbred redneck hillbilly fucking tourist, you. Good evening, how are you tonight? Welcome, welcome to 'No Sympathy Night.' Welcome to 'You're Wrong Night.'" -- Bill Hicks

49 Stanghazi  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:55:49pm

re: #39 Lidane

And with that, I'm signing off.

So depressing.

50 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:02:14pm

That shit happens almost every day.

51 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:02:16pm

re: #14 Kragar

Behold the Derpularity...

Epic. Ted Nugent Tells Piers Morgan to “Suck on My Machine Gun!” (Video)

Because nothing is more convincing than a self defecating draft dodger making semi-coherent threats.

He needs a new shtick. He said the same thing about Hillary and Obama.

52 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:06:42pm

So I see in other news that McConnell, the guy the pundits have put all their faith in to avert the fiscal cliff, is demanding spending cuts to "offset" the cost of extending federal unemployment for another year.

The stock market is gonna be a joy to watch next week. I imagine that it will look like '08 all over again for a lot of folks.

53 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:14:16pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

So I see in other news that McConnell, the guy the pundits have put all their faith in to avert the fiscal cliff, is demanding spending cuts to "offset" the cost of extending federal unemployment for another year.

The stock market is gonna be a joy to watch next week. I imagine that it will look like '08 all over again for a lot of folks.

The only way McConnell can get a deal that the party base would accept is to get some sort of significant offsetting spending cuts. Anything else is likely to be rejected.

54 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:14:59pm

Want to see some serious Ben Shapiro fail?

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Check out the comments. I'm just rolling in laughter. :D

55 ProMayaLiberal  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:17:21pm

After a bit of a busy time, I am back.

Also, this is the first post on the new computer. Recommendations for an Anti-Virus.

The stupid Blu-Ray Drivers are taking an damn eternity to install.

Hey Blu-Ray Driver!! Hurry up!

56 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:17:59pm

re: #53 Dark_Falcon

The only way McConnell can get a deal that the party base would accept is to get some sort of significant offsetting spending cuts. Anything else is likely to be rejected.

Which pretty much is the problem in a nutshell: The party base is out of their fucking gourds and yet also hold enough votes in the House to prevent Boehner from passing anything on a straight vote. There's no guarantee he could even put enough votes on the table to pass a bill, even if Nancy could guarantee 100% Dem support.

57 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:17:59pm

re: #55 ProMayaLiberal

After a bit of a busy time, I am back.

Also, this is the first post on the new computer. Recommendations for an Anti-Virus.

The stupid Blu-Ray Drivers are taking an damn eternity to install.

Hey Blu-Ray Driver!! Hurry up!

I'm a fan of Symantec AV.

58 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:18:06pm

re: #53 Dark_Falcon

The only way McConnell can get a deal that the party base would accept is to get some sort of significant offsetting spending cuts. Anything else is likely to be rejected.

Everything is going to be rejected by the idiot party base. They hate Obama so they're not going to give him a damned thing, no matter what it does to this country.

As far as they're concerned the only thing they'd accept is Barack Obama signing on to the most extreme RWNJ agenda then immediately resigning and sending himself to Gitmo.

59 ProMayaLiberal  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:18:34pm

re: #57 Kragar

Cost per year?

60 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:19:55pm

Avast! And it's free.

61 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:20:34pm

re: #60 Amory Blaine

Avast! And it's free.

Link

62 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:20:47pm

re: #54 Gus

Want to see some serious Ben Shapiro fail?

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Check out the comments. I'm just rolling in laughter. :D

Not visiting a site of breitbart blight, but does that headline mean what I think it does? If so, please oh please oh please let Ashley Judd beat McConnell if only so I can watch the rightwing melt down into a blob of bubbling rage-goo :)

63 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:20:49pm

re: #55 ProMayaLiberal

After a bit of a busy time, I am back.

Also, this is the first post on the new computer. Recommendations for an Anti-Virus.

The stupid Blu-Ray Drivers are taking an damn eternity to install.

Hey Blu-Ray Driver!! Hurry up!

Shields up!

Was wondering where you wandered off to.

64 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:21:26pm

re: #62 Interesting Times

Not visiting a site of breitbart blight, but does that headline mean what I think it does? If so, please oh please oh please let Ashley Judd beat McConnell if only so I can watch the rightwing melt down into a blob of bubbling rage-goo :)

I think Ben is scared of "girls."

65 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:22:01pm

re: #59 ProMayaLiberal

Cost per year?

Around $50. A little more if you get a package for multiple licenses. Worked like a charm when my kids messed up and loaded ransomware on their laptop.

66 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:22:09pm

re: #58 Lidane

Everything is going to be rejected by the idiot party base. They hate Obama so they're not going to give him a damned thing, no matter what it does to this country.

As far as they're concerned the only thing they'd accept is Barack Obama signing on to the most extreme RWNJ agenda then immediately resigning and sending himself to Gitmo.

In years past, the party would have just ignored the base long enough to get a bill passed, then made excuses come election time, because they know the base won't abandon them if it means letting Dems win.

Now? In the wake of Citizens United, all it takes to keep the party in line is to threaten them with a primary. Even if there's little chance they'd lose, just the cost in money and political capital necessary to fend off a challenger means the Dems start with an advantage.

67 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:23:30pm

re: #56 Targetpractice

Which pretty much is the problem in a nutshell: The party base is out of their fucking gourds and yet also hold enough votes in the House to prevent Boehner from passing anything on a straight vote. There's no guarantee he could even put enough votes on the table to pass a bill, even if Nancy could guarantee 100% Dem support.

That's why things may have to wait till January: Boehner can't make any moves that would run a major risk of getting him removed as speaker, and any deal is going to involve some form of pulling the wool over the base's eyes.

68 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:23:33pm

I'm not worrying about the "fiscal cliff" at all because I still expect a deal in January, after the tax increases are a done deal and the GOP can vote for tax cuts and maintain their purity. But Obama should sign nothing without a debt limit deal, because without that we would just roll right into another crisis. The GOP will be under massive public pressure after people see the tax bite out of their first January paychecks.

69 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:24:37pm
70 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:24:38pm

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

That's why things may have to wait till January: Boehner can't make any moves that would run a major risk of getting him removed as speaker, and any deal is going to involve some form of pulling the wool over the base's eyes.

If he's not willing to risk his Speakership, then what is he willing to risk? Because right now, even with him not trying to hard to rock the boat, the natives are still getting restless. Talk's going around about a secret ballot come the 3rd.

71 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:25:38pm

Italian priest’s Christmas flyer: Women incite domestic violence with cold dinners

Father Piero Corsi of Liguria sparked outrage after members of his congregation posted his Christmas bulletin onto Facebook. The flyer, entitled “Women and femicide – healthy self-criticism. How often do they provoke?” said victims of domestic and sexual violence should question if they were themselves to blame for the incident.

The flyer said women “provoke the worst instincts” and “should search their consciences and ask: did we bring this on ourselves?”

“The fact is that women are increasingly provocative, they become arrogant, they believe themselves to be self-sufficient and end up exacerbating the situation,” Corsi added. “Children are abandoned to their own devices, homes are dirty, meals are cold or fast food, clothes are filthy.”

He later added fuel to the fire by suggesting an Italian reporter must be gay if he wasn’t enticed by a picture of a nude woman.

72 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:26:52pm

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

Boehner can't make any moves that would run a major risk of getting him removed as speaker

Yes, heaven forbid that he act in the best interests of the country and risk being relegated to merely serving the interests of his district as a back bencher.

73 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:27:32pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

If he's not willing to risk his Speakership, then what is he willing to risk?

Seriously.

Either Sir John of Orange risks his Speakership on something and stands on principle for once in his life, or he proves he's a coward who won't stand up to the lunatics in his caucus.

It doesn't matter which way he goes, they mouth-breathers in the party base will still oppose him and try to get one of their own lunatics voted Speaker. Why not just deal with the inevitable challenge and find a spine for once?

74 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:28:36pm

re: #66 Targetpractice

In years past, the party would have just ignored the base long enough to get a bill passed, then made excuses come election time, because they know the base won't abandon them if it means letting Dems win.

Now? In the wake of Citizens United, all it takes to keep the party in line is to threaten them with a primary. Even if there's little chance they'd lose, just the cost in money and political capital necessary to fend off a challenger means the Dems start with an advantage.

It's not primarily (heh) Citizens United, its more the organization the internet has allowed the party base to establish for itself independant of official party structures. Angry activists are able to directly work together, without their efforts being filtered through a leadership that would dilute those efforts in favor of actually passing legislation. Added to this the anti-establishment bent of those activists, especially within the GOP. Today's party base activist is often far more concerned with purity than results, often saying 'No!' without putting forward ideas on what they'd say 'Yes' to.

75 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:30:42pm

re: #72 bratwurst

Yes, heaven forbid that he act in the best interests of the country and risk being relegated to merely serving the interests of his district as a back bencher.

But if he's replaced by a nutbar then things get much worse.

76 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:31:11pm

re: #71 Kragar

What the hell would an old, bitter celibate know about women?

Fuck him and his vestments. That priest can get bent.

77 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:31:22pm

I wonder what sort of executive orders might Obama might be considering in regard to the budget..

78 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:31:36pm

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

But if he's replaced by a nutbar then things get much worse.

Instead, he's been effectively neutered, unable to do anything because he sits in fear that they'll bounce his ass. How exactly is that a preferable alternative?

79 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:32:59pm

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

But if he's replaced by a nutbar then things get much worse.

If Boehner getting replaced by a complete fucking lunatic is what it takes for people in this country to finally realize the Republican party are completely insane, I'm all for it.

Let Congress grind to a complete halt if that's what it takes for these teabaggers and nutbars to be exposed for the reactionary loons they are.

80 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:33:04pm

Probably wants to keep his awesome parking spot.

81 SteveMcG  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:35:20pm

What happens when the people on the Death Star go to war against each other? You gotta figure some of the people stuck in the core of the star will want to get out to the outer layers. And the people from the outer layers won't want any of that deep down riff raff coming up from the scuppers.

82 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:36:51pm

re: #2 freetoken

Perhaps my doomy and gloomy self is over-coloring his future, but I expect Sen. Schatz to learn soon enough that he won't be a position to do anything about it. Oh, he'll talk the talk for a while (like Kerry), but when push comes to shove, the vote will be controlled by $$$.

I have to think his efforts will matter. Changing the course of civilization toward much more use of green energy and much less use of fossil fuel is the work of a generation and the work of billions of us. But one man can still make a difference. There's only 100 Senators, and only 50 are needed to drive a change. Many of the needed 50 have other agendas and will scratch his back if he scratches theirs, or will just follow his lead if he's persuasive. Comes right down to it, he'll need another 5 or 10 Senators to get things going in the Senate.

Right now, the House is a lost cause. But Democrats could change their approach to laying out Congressional districts, putting more emphasis on winning a majority and less emphasis on overprotecting safe seats. Given the same number of votes, they'd control the House. And they could gain votes.

The president is lukewarm on this issue and will need some warriors for the cause to lead the charge and take the hits, but he's sort of on board. Anyhow, a president can't be Johnny One Note.

And then there's China, India, Europe, etc. But if intense R&D efforts went well, we wouldn't need further political persuasion. The logic of the market itself would then drive a switch to green energy. And if R&D alone turns out to be insufficient, well, somebody has to blow the trumpet and sound the tocsin. This is do-able.

83 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:40:04pm

Note that come next year, Boehner will have 9 fewer votes he can lose on any bill before he has to start hoping Democrats go his way. In other words, he's got even less wiggle room to accomplish much of anything on a straight party vote. Considering his speakership to date, I don't really expect we'll do more than see repeats of the last two years: General paralysis punctuated by bills passed on party-line votes that go nowhere because the Senate refuses to entertain the GOP's temper tantrums.

84 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:40:51pm

But ultimately I want to needs to explain to the GOP's party base that this can't keep going on. Obama is the president and will be till January of 2017; That has to be accepted. Waiting till he was gone might have been a possible course prior to the 2012 election, but now it isn't any longer. And yes, that will mean a compromise that will require some acceptance of left-wing priorities. But there's nothing for it; We simply cannot have the nation going to rack and ruin for 4 years. That means we need to accept the situation and get to work. Otherwise, there's not going to be anything left of conservatism politically.

85 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:41:23pm

On another topic - fruit cake.

I mean the real food, not he figurative kind.

It seems to be near impossible to find them these days, at least "good" ones, by which I mean a real cake with real fruit and nuts.

Alas, the nearly omnipresent high fructose corn syrup dominates the few offerings that make it to the supermarket shelves.

86 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:41:28pm

re: #81 SteveMcG

It's all in the design solution. Torus, torus, torus.

87 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:42:11pm

All it will take to plow under the teabaggers is a cool voice, facts and data, and a healthy dose of ridicule aimed at the willfull ignorance. You can't debate someone who ignores reason because all your facts are worthless, the only thing you can really do is make fun of them. And then tell them you must be their only friend in the world because you are the first one to tell them the truth. They hate that line..

88 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:43:20pm

re: #81 SteveMcG

What happens when the people on the Death Star go to war against each other? You gotta figure some of the people stuck in the core of the star will want to get out to the outer layers. And the people from the outer layers won't want any of that deep down riff raff coming up from the scuppers.

They'll all live in the outer city sprawls. The areas near the core are all equipment and duty stations.

/Stay on Target!

89 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:43:50pm
90 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:44:18pm

re: #85 freetoken

On another topic - fruit cake.

I mean the real food, not he figurative kind.

It seems to be near impossible to find them these days, at least "good" ones, by which I mean a real cake with real fruit and nuts.

Alas, the nearly omnipresent high fructose corn syrup dominates the few offerings that make it to the supermarket shelves.

[Link: www.melindalee.com...]
Bake your own!

91 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:44:44pm

re: #89 Gus

The story I read said he was pushed by a mumbling woman.

92 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:45:09pm

re: #89 Gus

[Embedded content]

Clearly, we must restrict access to train stations.

/Must I?

93 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:45:35pm

Man Pushed To His Death Under Train In Queens
By WENDY RUDERMAN and RAVI SOMAIYA
Published: December 27, 2012

A young woman pushed a man to his death under an oncoming train at the 40th Street-Lowery Street subway station in Queens on Thursday evening, law enforcement authorities said.

The woman got up from her seat, walked behind the man along the platform, mumbling to herself, witnesses told the police, before shoving him into the path of a No. 7 train just after 8 p.m. Witnesses said the victim did not appear to notice her.

The man, whom the police have not yet identified, was pushed with little time to avoid the hurtling locomotive, or for others to come to his aid, said Paul J. Browne, the chief police spokesman. His body remained under the second car, which officers from the Emergency Services Unit planned to lift using specialist inflatable bags to recover his remains.

Continues.

94 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:45:47pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

But ultimately I want to needs to explain to the GOP's party base that this can't keep going on. Obama is the president and will be till January of 2017; That has to be accepted. Waiting till he was gone might have been a possible course prior to the 2012 election, but now it isn't any longer. And yes, that will mean a compromise that will require some acceptance of left-wing priorities. But there's nothing for it; We simply cannot have the nation going to rack and ruin for 4 years. That means we need to accept the situation and get to work. Otherwise, there's not going to be anything left of conservatism politically.

Think of it as evolution in action. Those who cannot adapt to the changing political and cultural climate will fail to thrive and ultimately be rendered extinct. Of course, not all extinctions are slow, ask the dinosaurs.

95 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:45:57pm

re: #81 SteveMcG

What happens when the people on the Death Star go to war against each other? You gotta figure some of the people stuck in the core of the star will want to get out to the outer layers. And the people from the outer layers won't want any of that deep down riff raff coming up from the scuppers.

BLOCK WAR!!!!

Image: a20791a1285b20afd4bb9f_m.jpg

96 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:47:14pm
A mumbling woman pushed a man to his death in front of a subway train on Thursday night, the second time this month someone has been killed in such nightmarish fashion, police said.

The man, who wasn't immediately identified, was standing on the elevated platform of a 7 train in Queens at about 8 p.m. when he was shoved by the woman, who witnesses said had been following him closely and mumbling to herself, New York Police Department chief spokesman Paul Browne said. It didn't appear the man noticed her before he was shoved onto the tracks, police said.

97 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:48:01pm

Why do Americans want to kill other Americans?

98 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:50:30pm

So that's American society. People are trying to kill you. Nice.

99 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:53:25pm

re: #97 Gus

Why do Americans want to kill other Americans?

a million different answers to that one.. Here is one.. Because they can.

100 BishopX  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:54:39pm

re: #85 freetoken

On another topic - fruit cake.

I mean the real food, not he figurative kind.

It seems to be near impossible to find them these days, at least "good" ones, by which I mean a real cake with real fruit and nuts.

Alas, the nearly omnipresent high fructose corn syrup dominates the few offerings that make it to the supermarket shelves.

Check out the trapists...they sell the good stuff.

101 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:58:51pm

I know from 24 years of marriage that when a woman is mumbling to herself it usually means something bad is about to happen. ///

102 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:02:14pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Otherwise, there's not going to be anything left of conservatism politically.

There hasn't been anything left of conservatism politically since Reagan left office. That's when they ran out of ideas and completely atrophied.

If the GOP is to survive as a party, they have to join the rest of us in accepting every bit of social and political progress since Gutenberg invented movable type. They can't keep going with their magical thinking, proud ignorance, and insistence on shitty, discredited economics.

103 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:05:54pm

re: #102 Lidane

There hasn't been anything left of conservatism politically since Reagan left office. That's when they ran out of ideas and completely atrophied.

If the GOP is to survive as a party, they have to join the rest of us in accepting every bit of social and political progress since Gutenberg invented movable type. They can't keep going with their magical thinking, proud ignorance, and insistence on shitty, discredited economics.

There still remains plenty of disagreement on what is progress and which policies are dead ends. Therefore I reject your post, save for its last sentence. That one is indeed true, but the other three are not.

104 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:09:43pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

There still remains plenty of disagreement on what is progress and which policies are dead ends. Therefore I reject your post, save for its last sentence. That one is indeed true, but the other three are not.

We might start with an acknowledgment that opposition to gay marriage based upon nothing more than religious bigotry is not only immoral, it runs counter to the very principles of this nation.

105 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:09:57pm

CNN Poll: GOP is too extreme

A CNN/ORC survey released Thursday once again emphasizes Republicans’ weak position in the “fiscal cliff” debate, as public opinion is decidedly tilted in Democrats’ favor.

Fifty-three percent of Americans called GOP policies “too extreme,” according to the survey, while 43 percent called them “generally mainstream.” By contrast, 37 percent called the Democratic party “too extreme.”

Fifty-two percent of Americans disapprove of the way House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) is handling his job, and 53 percent think Republicans should give up more than Democrats in a bipartisan solution to the country’s problems.

Gutfeld: Calling Republicans extreme is ‘a compliment,’ means party has ‘a spine’

Gutfeld suggested the GOP should embrace the “extreme” label, which he said is actually an inadvertent compliment.

“If you hold to any specific principle grounded in what your grandparents called common sense, you are extreme,” Gutfeld said. “And by extreme, the media really means mean. Yep, it’s an old stereotype. The media is mad at the daddy who didn’t hug them. And so they conduct a survey to soothe their wounds. So yes, I am extreme. To me that is a compliment. For it means I stick to my principles. So if you are like me, embrace your inner extremist. In another age, it was called a spine.”

106 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:13:47pm

re: #105 Kragar

"If you try to explain how fighting couple of wars 'off the books' doesn’t help the deficit, you’re extreme."

107 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:14:03pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

There still remains plenty of disagreement on what is progress and which policies are dead ends.

I'll settle for the GOP accepting basic science, reason, and the entire Age of Enlightenment for starters. I'll even take them accepting the following facts:

--The Cold War is over
--Civil Rights and Voting Rights are a thing
--So are evolution and climate change
--A black man with an African father and an American mother is an American citizen
--There's more than one language in the world
--There's more than one religion in the world
--MOAR GUNZ isn't the answer to everything
--Neither is MOAR GOD
--Homosexuality isn't a disease or a disorder that can be "cured"
--There are no valid legal arguments against gay marriage

Let's start there. Once they catch up on the basics we can hit more advanced coursework.

108 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:15:42pm

re: #105 Kragar

CNN Poll: GOP is too extreme

Gutfeld: Calling Republicans extreme is ‘a compliment,’ means party has ‘a spine’

To this day, my grandmother still insists that Dr. King was a "troublemaker" and doesn't think twice about described black folks she thinks of as second-class as n***ers. And note that I'm a man two decades younger than Mr. Gutfeld. No telling what his grandparents thought was "common sense."

109 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:17:36pm

re: #108 Targetpractice

Can I talk to you about the healing power of Radium?

110 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:19:29pm

re: #107 Lidane

There may be a few holdouts.

Our January/February 2013 issue is at the printer and should be in the mail to you by the end of the week. This issue is the first one to be available on-line to members. This is an experiment and we have have several requests for this feature. You will be able to read the Confederate Veteran on your iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC or other device. Details on how to download will be sent out in the SCV Telegram. Our Sesquicentennial series article is Lincoln's War On Southern Civilians by Walter Brian Cisco. Plus all of our usual features! [Link: confederateveteran.blogspot.com...]

111 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:19:54pm

re: #109 Kragar

Can I talk to you about the healing power of Radium?

Just a sec, have to make sure the little woman isn't getting it into her damn fool head that having the vote means she can think about getting a job.

//

112 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:20:09pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

There still remains plenty of disagreement on what is progress and which policies are dead ends.

What is this, triangulation? Still finding a way to turn a blind eye to anti gay bigotry and (to a lesser degree) angsty white revanchism. The question of what is right, what is wrong, what is settled and what is not is rooted in more than the mere existence of disagreement, or a lack of consensus.

113 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:22:51pm

re: #107 Lidane

I'll settle for the GOP accepting basic science, reason, and the entire Age of Enlightenment for starters. I'll even take them accepting the following facts:

--The Cold War is over
--Civil Rights and Voting Rights are a thing
--So are evolution and climate change
--A black man with an African father and an American mother is an American citizen
--There's more than one language in the world
--There's more than one religion in the world
--MOAR GUNZ isn't the answer to everything
--Neither is MOAR GOD
--Homosexuality isn't a disease or a disorder that can be "cured"
--There are no valid legal arguments against gay marriage

Let's start there. Once they catch up on the basics we can hit more advanced coursework.

All of those are fine by me except the last one. Gay marriage still plays something of a trip with my head, so I'm not going to speak for or against it. Sorry, but that's the best I can do on the issue right now. i don't want to fight it and I won't, but it remains too odd in my mind to support. That'll change, as it has for others, but I'd ask you to let me take the time I need to get my head around things.

114 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:27:16pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

All of those are fine by me except the last one. Gay marriage still plays something of a trip with my head, so I'm not going to speak for or against it. Sorry, but that's the best I can do on the issue right now. i don't want to fight it and I won't, but it remains too odd in my mind to support. That'll change, as it has for others, but I'd ask you to let me take the time I need to get my head around things.

Fair enough.

I guess I just don't see how full civil rights for LGBT people and marriage equality are even a question. There are simply no valid legal arguments against them. Every argument boils down to either personal discomfort with gay people or religious objections and neither of those are good enough reasons to deny rights.

115 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:27:35pm

"...The next time a senator announces opposition to a judicial nominee, demand something other than incoherent mumbo-jumbo. Tell the senator to fill in the blank: “I oppose this nominee because ____.” If there’s an answer of substance, fine. That’s advise-and-consent democracy. But if, upon inspection, the real answer is “because the N.R.A. told me to,” we have a problem. Based on these last few years, I think we do."

116 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:29:40pm

re: #102 Lidane

There hasn't been anything left of conservatism politically since Reagan left office. That's when they ran out of ideas and completely atrophied.

If the GOP is to survive as a party, they have to join the rest of us in accepting every bit of social and political progress since Gutenberg invented movable type. They can't keep going with their magical thinking, proud ignorance, and insistence on shitty, discredited economics.

A few thoughts..

1. Recognize that when church and state intermingle in each others business that both are harmed. Purge religion from science and politics and vice versa.
2. Go back to the root of Conservative.. "to conserve" as in to eliminate the wasted consumption of limited resources. That will reduce carbon emissions and drive prices lower at the same time. a win-win.
3. Promote higher education for American students so we don't need to find ways to import more engineers and scientists from other nations.
4. Support American commerce and find ways to keep reducing the trade deficit.
5. Make health care more affordable by eliminating waste and increasing the supply of services.
6. Give the US Military a leadership role in eliminating blight and restoring the infrastructure in urban America.

117 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:34:36pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

All of those are fine by me except the last one. Gay marriage still plays something of a trip with my head, so I'm not going to speak for or against it. Sorry, but that's the best I can do on the issue right now. i don't want to fight it and I won't, but it remains too odd in my mind to support. That'll change, as it has for others, but I'd ask you to let me take the time I need to get my head around things.

Why is more time required to stop supporting theocratic bigotry? If you think a change of opinion is inevitable, why resist. I think you're just surrounded by bigots and don't want to make waves with the people who so heavily influence you. Therefore you you cling to the idea that gay marriage's "oddness" requires time to accept.

Also, FYI whether you want to fight it or not, you oppose equality every time you vote for a bigot.

118 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:38:59pm

re: #117 goddamnedfrank

Actually, Frank, no one I know is seriously anti-gay. And I just said I wouldn't oppose it (and I've said that before). But getting behind it and pushing is another matter.

119 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:45:17pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Actually, Frank, no one I know is seriously anti-gay. And I just said I wouldn't oppose it (and I've said that before). But getting behind it and pushing is another matter.

You oppose it every time you vote for a candidate that opposes it. And your conception of "seriously anti-gay" isn't very convincing. Do your Dad and best friend support gay marriage, or not?

120 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:47:54pm

re: #119 goddamnedfrank

You oppose it every time you vote for a candidate that opposes it. And your conception of "seriously anti-gay" isn't very convincing. Do your Dad and best friend support gay marriage, or not?

Frank, it just isn't an issue I care much about. I don't base my votes on it.

121 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:48:35pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

But getting behind it and pushing is another matter.

rotating title nominee?

122 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:51:21pm

re: #121 Mich-again

rotating title nominee?

It's OK by me, though its bit salacious separated from its context. Of course, that is likely the point.

123 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:52:32pm

If you say you're not anti-gay and vote for people who keep passing laws to deny people their rights because they're gay, you're anti-gay.

124 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:54:14pm

Imagine the life you must live to be gay and be in love..
From children shamed and teased with everyone talking and whispering behind your back.. Locker rooms and bathrooms could bring danger and a deep sense of discomfort. I imagine that high school wasn't very fun..You hang out with a few friends. You're shunned by the community.
I thought we are all created equal as Americans and each one of us have the exact same rights.
You having the same rights does not effect my rights at all. And no matter what any religious church believes that does not trump my rights or anybody else in our country.
I'm tired of bigots.
And people are shocked that gays came together to fight for their equal rights. Shocked I tell ya!

125 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 9:57:08pm

Back on the original topic:


Mississippi River drops, threatening barge traffic

The Mississippi River level is dropping again and barge industry trade groups warned Thursday that river commerce could essentially come to a halt as early as next week in an area south of St. Louis.

Mike Petersen of the Army Corps of Engineers said ice on the northern Mississippi River is reducing the flow more than expected at the middle part of the river that is already at a low-water point unseen in decades, the result of months of drought.

The river level is now expected to get to 3 feet at the Thebes, Ill., gauge on Jan. 6, a juncture that could force new limitations. Worse still, the long-range forecast from the National Weather Service calls for the river to keep falling, reaching 2 feet on Jan. 23.

[...]

The trade groups renewed their call for presidential action requiring the Corps of Engineers to increase the flow of water from an upper Missouri River dam in South Dakota. The corps cut the flow by two-thirds in November because of drought conditions, reducing the amount of Missouri River water flowing into the Mississippi.

[...]

The depth of the Mississippi is regulated by dams north of St. Louis, and the depth increases south of Cairo, Ill., where the Ohio River converges. But the roughly 180-mile stretch from St. Louis to Cairo is approaching record lows. Experts say that if barges stop moving, the potential impact on shipments of essentials such as corn, grain, coal and petroleum could reach into the billions of dollars.

[...]

126 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:00:12pm

SPLC:

The LGBT community made significant advances in 2011, with the repeal of the “Don’t Act, Don’t Tell” policy on gay men and lesbians in the military, the growing acceptance of same-sex marriage by Americans and the legalization of such bonds in New York state. But it was precisely these advances that seemed to set off a furious rage on the religious right, with renewed efforts to ban or repeal marriage equality and what seemed to be an intensification of anti-gay propaganda in certain quarters.
.......
Overall, the number of anti-gay hate groups in the United States rose markedly, going from 17 in 2010 to 27 last year.
[Link: splcenter.org...]

127 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:07:10pm

re: #125 freetoken

Back on the original topic:

Mississippi River drops, threatening barge traffic

there's been a good amount of precipitation in the Chicago area, and the water that flows into the Des Plaines River will reach the Mississippi, though it'll take time.

128 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:19:28pm
129 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:22:11pm

re: #125 freetoken

Are there any options for the Army Corps of Engineers to raise the level in the Mississippi river?

130 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:24:59pm

We are surrounded on all sides by morons.

131 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:25:31pm

re: #129 Mich-again

From what I've read, they've done pretty much all they can. The problem with lowering reservoirs in South Dakota on the Missouri is that they are already at low levels. Likewise for the smaller reservoirs/lakes in Iowa and Illinois that would dump into the Mississippi via tributaries.

The recent blizzard brought precipitation to IA and IL, but that will take time to make its way down the watershed.

132 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:25:46pm

re: #129 Mich-again

Are there any options for the Army Corps of Engineers to raise the level in the Mississippi river?

There's at least one damn they can release water from, but longer term they need some rain. The river's gone from flood to low water in the last few years.

133 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:26:15pm

re: #130 Four More Tears

We are surrounded on all sides by morons.

[Embedded content]

Duh, where dus dat watur com frum???
Derp.

134 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:26:39pm

re: #130 Four More Tears

We are surrounded on all sides by morons.

[Embedded content]

Don't get caught up in what that nut says. It'll just depress you.

135 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:28:02pm

re: #131 freetoken

From what I've read, they've done pretty much all they can. The problem with lowering reservoirs in South Dakota on the Missouri is that they are already at low levels. Likewise for the smaller reservoirs/lakes in Iowa and Illinois that would dump into the Mississippi via tributaries.

The recent blizzard brought precipitation to IA and IL, but that will take time to make its way down the watershed.

Well what about where the river drains into the Gulf. If you can't add to the level in the river than try to hold what is there in.

136 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:29:00pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

Don't get caught up in what that nut says. It'll just depress you.

It amuses me.

137 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 10:30:57pm

re: #135 Mich-again

Well what about where the river drains into the Gulf. If you can't add to the level in the river than try to hold what is there in.

That wouldn't work. You'd flood the delta areas surrounding the mouth of the river instead of raising levels that far upstream. The levels still aren't an issue south of Cairo, IL. This is about water level on a 180 mile stretch of a river more than 1000 miles long.

138 SteveMcG  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 11:10:44pm

BTW wouldn't Florida be more vulnerable to rising water than Hawaii? The Keys lie lower and are more vulnerable to storms than the mountainous Hawaiin islands.

139 SteveMcG  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 11:13:02pm

Also I would also think that climate change could wreak havoc with Florida's tourism economy. While the snowbirds may not mind much, I think the increase in thunderstorms would be a real pain in the ass.

140 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 11:14:24pm

Honolulu is 19ft above sea level.

141 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 11:16:16pm

Virginia Lawmaker Says ‘Sea Level Rise’ Is A ‘Left Wing Term,’ Excises It From State Report On Coastal Flooding
See, the problem is these guys/gals don't live in reality.
They are completely immune to it.

142 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 11:29:31pm

re: #141 Varek Raith

Virginia Lawmaker Says ‘Sea Level Rise’ Is A ‘Left Wing Term,’ Excises It From State Report On Coastal Flooding
See, the problem is these guys/gals don't live in reality.
They are completely immune to it.

North Carolina GOP did the same thing.

143 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 11:34:13pm

re: #141 Varek Raith

That is from earlier this year. The various state-level GOP's idiotic statements in these regards made it to the top 10 list of stupid things that ThinkProgress (I think) compiled the other day.

144 freetoken  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:01:30am

The entire "sci-fi" genre of TV shows died I've concluded because of grossly oversimplified story lines. That's why SyFy continues to spread out into other areas of entertainment (e.g., WWE Smackdown).

Sad really. I'd say that TV genre peaked sometime between B5 and the 5th season of Stargate. It's been a rapid downhill since then.

And it's not just SyFy as a network. Other networks likewise are dishing out crap. E.g. the new Canadian version of "Primeval".

145 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:13:02am

re: #144 freetoken

The entire "sci-fi" genre of TV shows died I've concluded because of grossly oversimplified story lines. That's why SyFy continues to spread out into other areas of entertainment (e.g., WWE Smackdown).

Sad really. I'd say that TV genre peaked sometime between B5 and the 5th season of Stargate. It's been a rapid downhill since then.

And it's not just SyFy as a network. Other networks likewise are dishing out crap. E.g. the new Canadian version of "Primeval".

Its a question of return on investment. The various studios realize they can spend a minimal amount on production and still make a decent profit turn out of absolute dreck as long as the have Buff Hardcheese as the hero, Slinky McHugetits as the damsel in distress and follow the same basic storyline as every other show.

"Have we done a body swap episode?"
"Yes."
"Frozen time?"
"Yes."
"... Amnesia?"
"No."
"I'VE GOT THE PLOT FOR THE NEXT EPISODE!"

146 freetoken  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:17:49am

re: #145 Kragar

Funny enough, many of the "production" values are ok - usually good sound/music, enough cameras, lighting, even graphics.

The big hole tends to be the story line, and as you pointed out there are a handful of scenarios that get redone all the time, with the next set of overly pretty, sexy, 20-somethings.

It's become easy to tell when one of these new TV shows are going to be bad - the lead characters are all that age - usually about 10 years older than the intended viewing market. So to get the coveted young adult market (the best return on ad dollars) the actors tend to be 20's to early 30's.

The better shows tend to have older actors playing older characters, as well as some external story (from a previous work) with which to build.

147 Amory Blaine  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:18:40am

re: #130 Four More Tears

We are surrounded on all sides by morons.

[Embedded content]

The derp is so fast and furious it's like shooting at a bees nest with a revolver.

148 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:20:10am

re: #146 freetoken

Funny enough, many of the "production" values are ok - usually good sound/music, enough cameras, lighting, even graphics.

The big hole tends to be the story line, and as you pointed out there are a handful of scenarios that get redone all the time, with the next set of overly pretty, sexy, 20-somethings.

It's become easy to tell when one of these new TV shows are going to be bad - the lead characters are all that age - usually about 10 years older than the intended viewing market. So to get the coveted young adult market (the best return on ad dollars) the actors tend to be 20's to early 30's.

The better shows tend to have older actors playing older characters, as well as some external story (from a previous work) with which to build.

Have you watched Alphas at all?

149 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:26:06am

I liked when SyFy was Sci-Fi and they'd just go through the DnD Monster Manual and make a movie about random entries.

I'm all about Owlbears.

150 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:29:22am

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

I liked when SyFy was Sci-Fi and they'd just go through the DnD Monster Manual and make a movie about random entries.

I'm all about Owlbears.

Planescape would have been an awesome setting for a TV show.

151 freetoken  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:30:47am

re: #148 Kragar

Have you watched Alphas at all?

What's an "Alphas", other than being the first character of the Greek alphabet?

152 researchok  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:36:22am

Morning, all

153 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:41:35am

re: #151 freetoken

What's an "Alphas", other than being the first character of the Greek alphabet?

154 researchok  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:41:38am

re: #128 freetoken

Great lyrics.

Good find.

155 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:43:13am

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

I liked when SyFy was Sci-Fi and they'd just go through the DnD Monster Manual and make a movie about random entries.

I'm all about Owlbears.

Throw in a beholder, some trolls that regenerate limbs, and a mind flayer and we've got a movie.

156 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:45:19am

I actually skipped Alphas for the first season just because it was a SyFy show, but it actually wasn't bad once I checked it out on Netflix.

157 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:50:02am

re: #155 Mattand

Throw in a beholder, some trolls that regenerate limbs, and a mind flayer and we've got a movie.

Everything needs more Mind Flayers.

158 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 1:55:46am

wtf?

Observe the never sober Mohammad having sex with camels, pre-adolescent girls and boys, the mutilations, murders, terrorism, sneak attacks, back stabbings and mental illnesses. Absolutely no other novel is similar. Stick up for America by sticking it to Radical Islam.

Also: There is a subtle effort to dissuade Americans from buying or reading this parody.

wtf wtf??

159 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 1:56:50am

re: #158 engineer cat

wtf?

Observe the never sober Mohammad having sex with camels, pre-adolescent girls and boys, the mutilations, murders, terrorism, sneak attacks, back stabbings and mental illnesses. Absolutely no other novel is similar. Stick up for America by sticking it to Radical Islam.

Also: There is a subtle effort to dissuade Americans from buying or reading this parody.

wtf wtf??

Source?

160 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 1:59:39am

also, wtf is up with plsql?

1) substr() indexes your string COUNTING FROM ONE not from zero like any true nerdsman

2) myChar IN ('X', 'Y', 'Z') returns true if myChar is a BLANK

A BLANK!!!

161 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 2:01:03am

re: #159 Kragar

Source?

spam email signed 'Dorthy [sic] Barrera'

spam email is spammy

162 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 2:02:53am

alpha

i'll take Origin Of The Names Of The Letters In The Greek Alphabet for $500 alex

163 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 2:07:42am

Pope launches media campaign to re-invigorate the Church

New and Improved, with 50% less child molestation, corruption, and misogyny*.

* offer not valid in all locations

164 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 2:17:05am

Going thru some stuff my brother sent me, he replaced my entire MST3k collection which I lost last year when one of my external drives crashed, plus got me CBZ files for the entire run of Judge Dredd.

165 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 3:08:01am

re: #164 Kragar

Going thru some stuff my brother sent me, he replaced my entire MST3k collection which I lost last year when one of my external drives crashed, plus got me CBZ files for the entire run of Judge Dredd.

Pic of Kragar when that happened;
Image: RageFace.jpg

166 Kragar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 3:14:08am

re: #165 Varek Raith

Pic of Kragar when that happened;
Image: RageFace.jpg

I accepted its loss with poise and grace.

167 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 4:13:10am

GOOD MORNING LIZARDIA! First Derp of the Day:

168 rwdflynavy  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 4:20:22am
169 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 4:45:23am

re: #168 rwdflynavy

Chicagoland Reaches 500 Homicides

If only they had more guns.
-NRA

170 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 4:46:04am

re: #167 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

GOOD MORNING LIZARDIA! First Derp of the Day:

Catastrophic global warming alert: blizzard warnings for 730 continuous miles due to winter storm.

No point in trying to explain the difference between climate and weather to this asshat, Start with basic things like "shit/Shinola" or "ass/hole in the ground"

171 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 4:48:48am

See, that massive blizzard got the moisture from somewhere.
Must've been Jesus, not all the water being evaporated from the oceans at an increasing rate thanks to AGW. Nope.
Or squirrels.
Yeah, squirrels.

172 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 4:50:08am

re: #171 Varek Raith

See, that massive blizzard got the moisture from somewhere.
Must've been Jesus, not all the water being evaporated from the oceans at an increasing rate thanks to AGW. Nope.
Or squirrels.
Yeah, squirrels.

It's because of not enough compulsory prayer in skoolz and wimmenz killen there babbys!1!

173 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 4:57:17am
As far as Saddam Hussein being a great military strategist: He is neither a strategist, nor is he schooled in the operational art, nor is he a tactician, nor is he a general, nor is he a soldier. Other than that, he's a great military man.

-Norman Schwarzkopf
RIP

174 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 5:39:57am

re: #44 Kragar

A couple of caveats to your comment about anti-intellectualism.

1. You were in a Waffle House, not a Starbucks.
2. It was in Nashville, TN*, thereby lowering the likelihood of finding intellectuals (aka reedurz) at a Waffle House.
3. You were probably reading some kind of smart-guy book, like history or politics. Next time, bring along a Tom Clancy novel. Or, better yet, put a Tom Clancy dustjacket over the book you're actually reading. No one will ever know.

That said, we teachers have known for X (where X > 5x our stated age) years that students just don't read books** anymore. Video is where it's at, I hear.
-------
* Don't rag on me for dumping on TN, even if I did live in KY for 30 years. Nashville is better than rural TN, but it's not exactly Boston.
** Except for Twilight and Harry Potter, which are outliers.

175 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 5:44:35am

Good morning lizards!

176 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 5:46:14am

re: #174 wheat-dogghazi

A couple of caveats to your comment about anti-intellectualism.

1. You were in a Waffle House, not a Starbucks.
2. It was in Nashville, TN*, thereby lowering the likelihood of finding intellectuals (aka reedurz) at a Waffle House.
3. You were probably reading some kind of smart-guy book, like history or politics. Next time, bring along a Tom Clancy novel. Or, better yet, put a Tom Clancy dustjacket over the book you're actually reading. No one will ever know.

That said, we teachers have known for X (where X > 5x our stated age) years that students just don't read books** anymore. Video is where it's at, I hear.
-------
* Don't rag on me for dumping on TN, even if I did live in KY for 30 years. Nashville is better than rural TN, but it's not exactly Boston.
** Except for Twilight and Harry Potter, which are outliers.

I recall that as a bookworm minority white kid in downtown Gary, Indiana, there were kids who picked on me, but there were other kids, mostly black or Latino, who stood up for me: they were taught that reading was a good thing and were on my side.

Then my mom moved us to a white neighborhood closer to the edge of town, where the working-class and middle-class mostly white kids picked on me mercilessly for actually reading books that were not assigned reading.

177 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 5:48:28am

re: #174 wheat-dogghazi

What's your opinion of the letter found in a box of KMart decorations, allegedly from a worker at a Chinese labor camp. Do you think it is bogus or legit?

178 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 5:54:31am

re: #167 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

Old derp/new derp.

It's the same derp he's been derping for years now.

No clue that weather isn't the same as climate or that any single storm is an indication of climate change.

It's when you've got global temps that have continually risen and have remained above long term averages that you get global warming. It also doesn't mean that everywhere sees higher temps either - it is global average temperature that rises. Some places will rise more than others. Some places will see more violent weather than others. The frequency of that weather will increase or decrease depending on the jet stream and other variables.

But in 140 characters? He gets to derp it up.

179 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 5:54:38am

Really? Does he really have to stoop this low? What an ass.


TRENDING: Hoyer compares GOP debt limit tactics to hostage taker threatening to shoot child

Washington (CNN) — Less than two weeks after one of the nation’s deadliest school shootings, the No.2 Democrat in the U.S. House, Steny Hoyer, compared Republican tactics for dealing with the nation’s debt limit to someone threatening to shoot a child hostage.

“It’s somewhat like taking your child hostage and saying to somebody else, ‘I’m going to shoot my child if you don’t do what I want done.’ You don’t want to shoot your child. There’s no Republican leader that wants to default on our debt, that I’ve talked to,” Hoyer said at a Capitol Hill press conference.

180 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:01:01am

re: #178 lawhawk

Old derp/new derp.

It's the same derp he's been derping for years now.

No clue that weather isn't the same as climate or that any single storm is an indication of climate change.

It's when you've got global temps that have continually risen and have remained above long term averages that you get global warming. It also doesn't mean that everywhere sees higher temps either - it is global average temperature that rises. Some places will rise more than others. Some places will see more violent weather than others. The frequency of that weather will increase or decrease depending on the jet stream and other variables.

But in 140 characters? He gets to derp it up.

Bryan is not as totally self-oblivious as you think. He deleted a bunch of Tweets he made yesterday in which he claimed that if taxes go up it is totally Obama's fault because he didn't cave in to the GOP.

181 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:04:22am

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

Even if you don't like National Review, you're gonna like this article:

Build the Death Star
Five reasons we need a small moon — wait a minute, that’s no moon . . .

/Stay on Target!

I have a sinking feeling Halliburton will be in charge of the design and construction of the new space-station's only exhaust port.

182 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:04:58am

re: #181 Ghost of Tom Joad

I have a sinking feeling Halliburton will be in charge of the design and construction of the new space-station's only exhaust port.

Raytheon could outbid them.

183 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:06:13am

Focused on the economy like a laser beam!

184 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:11:11am

Three police officers shot by gunman. At a Gloucester Township Police station in New Jersey. The gunman was killed.

The police officers are in the hospital, one in serious condition.

The gunman was apparently being processed at the station when he grabbed for the police officer's gun. He had been arrested on domestic violence charges.

The person had been arrested on a domestic violence charge, but while being processed in the station, the person grabbed one of the officers' guns and began firing, said Deputy Chief David Harkins in a brief statement to the media.

One of the officers was shot in the abdomen, just below their bulletproof vest, Harkins said. Two of the other officers were wounded.

The police returned fire and killed the assailant, the deputy chief said.

The officer who was shot in the abdomen was taken to Cooper University Medical Center in Camden, and remains in stable condition.

The assailant's body is still inside the Gloucester Township Police Department's headquarters, while the investigation continues.

185 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:12:39am

re: #180 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

Bryan is not as totally self-oblivious as you think. He deleted a bunch of Tweets he made yesterday in which he claimed that if taxes go up it is totally Obama's fault because he didn't cave in to the GOP.

I never said he was oblivious. Malevolent. Not oblivious.

186 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:14:43am

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Really? Does he really have to stoop this low? What an ass.

TRENDING: Hoyer compares GOP debt limit tactics to hostage taker threatening to shoot child

True.

"Hoyer compares GOP debt limit tactics to hostage taker threatening to shoot the economy."

Better?

188 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:18:47am

re: #186 Varek Raith

True.

"Hoyer compares GOP debt limit tactics to hostage taker threatening to shoot the economy."

Better?

Yes but that's not what he said. After the worst shooting in history only 2 weeks ago he lowered himself to this.

189 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:20:40am

re: #188 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but that's not what he said. After the worst shooting in history only 2 weeks ago he lowered himself to this.

It just goes to show how tone-deaf these people tuly are.

190 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:22:19am

re: #144 freetoken

The entire "sci-fi" genre of TV shows died I've concluded because of grossly oversimplified story lines. That's why SyFy continues to spread out into other areas of entertainment (e.g., WWE Smackdown).

Sad really. I'd say that TV genre peaked sometime between B5 and the 5th season of Stargate. It's been a rapid downhill since then.

And it's not just SyFy as a network. Other networks likewise are dishing out crap. E.g. the new Canadian version of "Primeval".

I miss Battlestar Galactica.

191 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:22:49am

re: #190 aagcobb

I miss Battlestar Galactica.

Which one?

192 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:24:17am

re: #190 aagcobb

There's Blood and Chrome if you want to get your BSG fix (and hopefully it'll be coming to tv soon - for now it's online only).

193 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:27:57am

re: #189 Sol Berdinowitz

It just goes to show how tone-deaf these people tuly are.

It's no surprise they still have the lowest approval rating.

194 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:29:36am

One way to potentially reduce the number of shootings? Solving the nonfatal shooting crimes. A startling amount of them go unsolved for one reason or another.

If someone is murdered in NJ for example, 65% of the cases are closed as solved. For nonfatal shootings, the percentage plummets to 21%. Figure that many of the nonfatal shooting perps go on to commit other crimes.

A more concerted effort to solve the nonfatal gun crimes could have a significant effect on the crime rates and firearms incidents statewide. Heck, many police departments don't even track that kind of information.

It's an area ripe for reform and concentration of effort.

"You’ve got dozens and dozens, if not scores, of dangerous people who commit heinous crimes, who walk away and who are not held to account, and that has all kinds of implications for public safety in those towns," said Eugene O’Donnell, John Jay College of Criminal Justice professor in Manhattan, and a former assistant district attorney. He said failure to track nonfatal shootings underscores "the medieval approach that police have to crime statistics. You would think that this would be a barometer of the safety climate and the police would be on top of it."

While trying to gather information for this story, The Star-Ledger found few police departments track nonfatal shootings or the number of those cases solved. In some places, like Jersey City, the data was readily available. But most agencies needed several months to compile the statistics because the incidents first had to be identified then organized.

Because the category is not tracked as closely as homicides, experts said many law enforcement agencies may not comprehend the full extent of the problem. That would be a mistake, said Wayne Fisher, a professor at the Rutgers University Police Institute and its former director. The low closure rates in New Jersey, he said, can pose a serious threat to the public.

"What’s left on the street is both the firearm and the person that’s willing to use the firearm," Fisher said. "Let’s face it, an offender who is willing to shoot a gun at another person is an obvious threat to the public safety, whether or not that bullet, misses, injures, or takes the life of the intended victim."

Earlier this month, a 19-year-old Newark man was shot multiple times while driving through the city’s South Ward, an attack for which he remains hospitalized and barely conscious, investigators said.

Police have not identified a suspect, and no witness has stepped forward. The teen’s passenger, who was the intended target, has barely spoken to police, and the victim has been unable to communicate.

195 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:32:19am

re: #193 NJDhockeyfan

It's no surprise they still have the lowest approval rating.

Interesting factoid;
The Ds have a higher approval rating than the Rs.

196 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:32:22am

re: #76 Lidane

What the hell would an old, bitter celibate know about women?

Fuck him and his vestments. That priest can get bent.

One of the reasons I'm an Episcopalian instead of Roman. Priests can be male or female and marry. Much more reflective of the human condition.

197 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:34:19am

re: #195 Varek Raith

Interesting factoid;
The Ds have a higher approval rating than the Rs.

Does it matter? Their numbers are both below prostitutes and lawyers.

198 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:34:34am

re: #150 Kragar

Planescape would have been an awesome setting for a TV show.

I thought the called that Stargate? ///

199 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:36:22am

re: #187 lawhawk

Going back to last year, Boehner has said that there's a group within his own GOP caucus that seeks to take the economy hostage.

The caucus, Boehner says, has been infiltrated by a cabal that hopes to take the US economy hostage in order to force political concessions from President Obama and Congressional Democrats.

Appearing Wednesday on conservative talk radio host Laura Ingraham’s,, Boehner acknowledged what every serious economic analyst has already said: that a failure to raise the debt ceiling before the August 2 deadline would be devastating to an already struggling US economy.

So “why,” Ingraham asked, were House Republicans resisting the deal that President Obama has offered—a deal that is ridiculously deferent to Republican demands for cuts to needed domestic programs and for tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy.

“Well,” Boehner said of the most belligerent members of his caucus, “first they want more. And my goodness, I want more too. And secondly, a lot of them believe that if we get passed August the second and we have enough chaos, we could force the Senate and the White House to accept a balanced budget amendment.”

Let’s be clear about what Boehner is saying: he has members of his caucus—perhaps sufficient in number to block resolution of the debt ceiling fight—who would be willing to force the United States to default on its debts. Why? Because they want to create so much economic chaos that the president and Congressional Democrats will sign on for a bad policy that could not otherwise advance.

That’s blackmail. But Boehner’s not concerned about the fact that his lawless colleagues would threaten the good faith and credit of the United States—not to mention the economic stability of their homeland—in order to score political points.

Note that this is all in reference to the debt limit talks last year (2011). That same mindset applies to the current GOP and to the current GOP caucus mindset over the budget talks - fiscal cliff, taxes, and debt limit. They're hoping to create enough chaos in the economy, on Wall Street, etc., to force the Democrats and the President to accept their terms.

Here's the kicker. The fiscal cliff that we're hearing so much about is essentially an American-style austerity program. The kind of austerity program that the US and some European countries have forced the likes of Greece to accept/adopt as condition for receiving monetary support. It will constrict the economy because spending declines and taxes rise to cover costs and bring in sufficient revenues to better cover spending. That's what's going on here. But now the GOP is resisting all this because they know that the combination is toxic to the economy and they'll take the heat (as shown by polls) for allowing the situation to go south. That government spending is tied to economic growth undermines the GOP arguments that government spending should be avoided - they just want it focused on the programs/places that favor them, not anyone else.

200 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:36:59am

re: #191 Varek Raith

Which one?

The new one; now that some was some great dramatic television.

201 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:37:48am

re: #192 lawhawk

There's Blood and Chrome if you want to get your BSG fix (and hopefully it'll be coming to tv soon - for now it's online only).

I'll have to check it out, thanks.

202 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:49:31am

re: #199 lawhawk

Yes, it is an austerity program like several nations have been forced into. And if it happens, it will devastate our economy just as it has done in Greece, et al, & like austerity has always done historically.

But hey, that anti-socialist Keynes is a commie, ya know?

203 Decatur Deb  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:50:10am

re: #196 William Barnett-Lewis

One of the reasons I'm an Episcopalian instead of Roman. Priests can be male or female and marry. Much more reflective of the human condition.

Wife's RC parish just got a married priest--he swam the Tiber, towing his wife. It took a couple years for the Vatican to rule that his episcopal succession was sound.

(We had a lot of married priests in communion with Rome in the 50s, then the Greek Catholics changed their rules. RC unmarried clergy is a management decision, not a theological requirement.)

204 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:53:50am

re: #203 Decatur Deb

Wife's RC parish just got a married priest--he swam the Tiber, towing his wife. It took a couple years for the Vatican to rule that his episcopal succession was sound.

(We had a lot of married priests in communion with Rome in the 50s, then the Greek Catholics changed their rules. RC unmarried clergy is a management decision, not a theological requirement.)

Very much one. Between 1000 & 1200 they began losing too much inheritance and dealing with conflicting loyalties (hmm... support some old man in Rome or my son?) and they began serious cracking down on it. The theology has always been for cover.

205 Decatur Deb  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:58:12am

re: #204 William Barnett-Lewis

Very much one. Between 1000 & 1200 they began losing too much inheritance and dealing with conflicting loyalties (hmm... support some old man in Rome or my son?) and they began serious cracking down on it. The theology has always been for cover.

As the average age for priests hangs around retirement, desperation could easily get that reversed. Women priests could also be forced through some kind of tortured scripture/tradition re-read, though that would be much less likely.

206 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 6:59:05am

re: #130 Four More Tears

We are surrounded on all sides by morons.


Catastrophic global warming alert: blizzard warnings for 730 continuous miles due to winter storm. climatedepot.com/a/18934/Snow-A…

— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) December 28, 2012

Catastrophic global warning alert: blizzard caused by unprecedented evaporation of water into the atmosphere because of record level heat in south dumping evaporated (now condensed again) water from sky when said atmospheric transported water moves north and encounters a strangely contorted (by global warming) jet stream dip of cold arctic air. Snow will fall in places not usually affected. More on this when the dooshnozzles quit their whining.

207 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:06:33am

re: #205 Decatur Deb

As the average age for priests hangs around retirement, desperation could easily get that reversed. Women priests could also be forced through some kind of tortured scripture/tradition re-read, though that would be much less likely.

All it would take is the Pope speaking "ex cathedra" that the holy spirit told him so... ;)

208 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:07:39am

I'm sorry, I just can't summon up any reason to feel sorry for Congress who have been summoned back to DC on the cusp of the new year.

None.

They deserve not only to be in DC, but to be there locked in a room with each other until a deal is done.

So, they're complaining. Well, bitch less - get this deal done. It's called politics. They're politicians. Compromise. Find a way to make a deal.

No one is going to get all that they want. Make the deals. Bitch and moan that you didn't get all that you want, but get the deal done.

Or else, it's on Congress and the legislative leaders when the economy tanks.

209 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:10:49am

GAH


GOP idea on how to spend more efficiently: LESS MONEY (or NO MONEY) for poor, unemployed, elderly, vets, but MOAR MUNNY for the 1%.

210 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:11:13am

Chicago passes grim milestone of 500 homicides this year. Not good.

The Chicago homicide rate is significantly higher than the rate in NYC.

Of course, the gun rights groups are gleefully claiming that this is a sign that gun control doesn't work.

The flip side is that one could argue that the murder rates would be even higher but for the level of gun control already existent.

211 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:11:27am

re: #188 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but that's not what he said. After the worst shooting in history only 2 weeks ago he lowered himself to this.

I have to agree with you there. He could have phrased it with a more sensitive analogy rather than using kids being threatened.

212 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:13:37am

re: #209 Vicious Babushka

More efficiently?

Anyone want to wiki up the costs and spending on the F22 and F35 fighter programs? Those programs, while creating the most high tech fighters in the world are anything but a sign of efficiency. The cost per aircraft has soared, and the costs threaten the DoD budget.

Or how about the fact that Congress is forcing the Army to buy tanks it doesn't need all to keep a factory line going until a new tank design is brought to the market to replace the Abrams. Lots of places in the budget need reform - but it is indeed odd where the GOP wants to focus versus where real cost savings can be accomplished.

213 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:16:14am

re: #211 Eventual Carrion

Whatever, it's typical poutrage over a politician's comment vs. the fact that the lunatics in the House are, in fact, trying to hold the economy hostage and will happily shoot it, and will probably do so no matter what deal they're given because they are intractably belligerent about a black Democrat being in charge.

214 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:16:36am

re: #212 lawhawk

More efficiently?

Anyone want to wiki up the costs and spending on the F22 and F35 fighter programs? Those programs, while creating the most high tech fighters in the world are anything but a sign of efficiency. The cost per aircraft has soared, and the costs threaten the DoD budget.

Or how about the fact that Congress is forcing the Army to buy tanks it doesn't need all to keep a factory line going until a new tank design is brought to the market to replace the Abrams. Lots of places in the budget need reform - but it is indeed odd where the GOP wants to focus versus where real cost savings can be accomplished.

The GOP isn't interested in efficient spending, just in destroying the social safety net in order to BLAME OBAMA.

Oh G-D look at this DERP

215 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:23:28am

Mornin' all...

216 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:23:48am
217 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:24:00am

re: #214 Vicious Babushka

Figures he doesn't have a clue what an injunction is or that Hobby Lobby wasn't entitled to one pending its lawsuit being heard.

218 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:25:05am

re: #216 darthstar

That's a Sauron sized conspiracy /

219 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:25:45am

re: #214 Vicious Babushka

The GOP isn't interested in efficient spending, just in destroying the social safety net in order to BLAME OBAMA.

Oh G-D look at this DERP

[Embedded content]

So, defying federal law is now "exercising your 1st amendment rights." I'll have to remember that one next time I don't pay my taxes. I'm sure it will go over well with the IRS.

The religious canard is just cover for them not wanting to have to give their employees health care. They're no different than that douchebag Papa Jockstrap's pizza CEO.

220 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:26:31am

re: #219 Ghost of Tom Joad

So, defying federal law is now "exercising your 1st amendment rights." I'll have to remember that one next time I don't pay my taxes. I'm sure it will go over well with the IRS.

The religious canard is just cover for them not wanting to have to give their employees health care. They're no different than that douchebag Papa Jockstrap's pizza CEO.

221 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:27:03am

re: #214 Vicious Babushka

Hobby Lobby employees can make their own birth control and get a 10% employee discount on the ribbon, styrofoam, fake flowers, glitter, wire and glue they use to make their own seasonal IUD.

222 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:31:06am
223 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:31:06am

re: #213 Ghost of Tom Joad

Whatever, it's typical poutrage over a politician's comment vs. the fact that the lunatics in the House are, in fact, trying to hold the economy hostage and will happily shoot it, and will probably do so no matter what deal they're given because they are intractably belligerent about a black Democrat being in charge.

I think everyone's missing Hoyer's point. He's talking about someone taking hostage and threatening to shoot his own child - i.e., an empty threat. The point being that Hoyer believes Republicans don't actually want to default on the debt, despite their rhetoric. I'm skeptical about that, but Hoyer knows a lot more Republican congress critters than I do (the latter number being 0).

224 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:35:35am

re: #223 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

The point being that Hoyer believes Republicans don't actually want to default on the debt, despite their rhetoric. I'm skeptical about that, but Hoyer knows a lot more Republican congress critters than I do (the latter number being 0).

A large enough minority of Republicans don't want compromise that Boehner is afraid to act in this country's best interest. If he really wanted to be a successful speaker, he'd kick those Republicans to the curb (fine, get another term as speaker first) and say, "Look, we lost this one." and let the Obama proposal go to a vote. He'd be taken more seriously in future negotiations because he'd actually be seen as a reasonable person. And he'd help the country in the process.

225 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:35:40am

re: #184 lawhawk

Three police officers shot by gunman. At a Gloucester Township Police station in New Jersey. The gunman was killed.

The police officers are in the hospital, one in serious condition.

The gunman was apparently being processed at the station when he grabbed for the police officer's gun. He had been arrested on domestic violence charges.

Christ, I used to go to meetings in that building for the ACS Relay for Life they have in GloTwp; the building is one of those that houses all of the municipal departments.

Hope the cops pull through. It's a cliché, but if this can happen in Gloucester Township, it can happen anywhere.

226 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:38:56am

re: #221 darthstar

Hobby Lobby employees can make their own birth control and get a 10% employee discount on the ribbon, styrofoam, fake flowers, glitter, wire and glue they use to make their own seasonal IUD.

"First Amendment Rights" means that Hobby Lobby is free to warn and admonish its employees not to use contraceptives. But the Fourth Amendment means taht the employees' choices are ultimately their own private choices.

227 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:39:36am
228 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:40:16am

re: #226 Sol Berdinowitz

"First Amendment Rights" means that Hobby Lobby is free to warn and admonish its employees not to use contraceptives. But the Fourth Amendment means taht the employees' choices are ultimately their own private choices.

That would be harassment and intimidation, which is not protected speech under the 1st amendment.

229 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:41:15am

re: #226 Sol Berdinowitz

But the Fourth Amendment means taht the employees' choices are ultimately their own private choices.

Yep...as the courts ruled, they're not a church. And who knew selling DIY kitsch could make you a billionaire?

230 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:44:05am

From the "Why, No, I Don't Have Any Self-Awareness of My Own Faults" Department:

Jennifer Rubin's New Year’s resolutions for other people.

Be sure to check out the very last one. I'd be willing to be that adjusted for inflation, that number is actually lower than most other presidents.

231 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:47:24am

re: #230 Mattand

From the "Why, No, I Don't Have Any Self-Awareness of My Own Faults" Department:

Jennifer Rubin's New Year’s resolutions for other people.

Be sure to check out the very last one. I'd be willing to be that adjusted for inflation, that number is actually lower than most other presidents.

I saw that last one. Most wingnuts believe that the President should be living in the "[deleted word] quarters"

232 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:47:57am

re: #228 Vicious Babushka

That would be harassment and intimidation, which is not protected speech under the 1st amendment.

Could you please tell my wife that!?!?

OUCH,, oh,, hi honey,,, didn't see you standing behind me !!!
///

233 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:48:51am

Wingnuts are positively jubilating about gun homicides in Chicago.

Correlation and causation, how do those work?

234 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:49:05am

re: #230 Mattand

I think I've written about that before. The Executive Branch budget is set by Congress. It includes everything from USSS to maintaining, preserving, renovating, and upgrading the White House. It includes the amounts for state dinners and other events as well.

The budgets have been relatively consistent over time, but have increased in recent years due to increased security requirements and renovations underway at the WH (such as building new facilities for the press, underground bunkers, etc.)

To repeat, Congress appropriates the budget for the WH.

For instance, this table shows outlays by agency from 1962 thru estimates for 2017. The Executive Office of the President line covers some of the WH expenditures. It's actually gone down from 2009 through 2011 after rising from 2002 through 2005 - primarily security related costs.

235 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:54:20am

re: #230 Mattand

It includes costs of security etc. that has been used by every other President. INOKIYPWB (it's not ok if you're presidentin' while black) easily sums up that tripe she linked to. The article makes it sound like he and his family are going out shopping to the tune of 1.4 billion.

Hell, the SS needs to spend more on his security because of his complexion in this country. Half the morons wielding NRA-membership cards would probably relish the chance to take a shot at him.

236 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:55:14am

re: #227 darthstar

Image from this editorial
Save the planet. Save Social Security. Save Medicaid. Tax Carbon.

That is a great editorial.

237 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:56:26am

re: #234 lawhawk

To repeat, Congress appropriates the budget for the WH.

But like any other dept/agency of the fed gov't, that dept/ agency presents a budget (wish list, if you will) to congress

238 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:58:14am

Movie day for me and the Mrs

Anyone seen
Les Mis??

239 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:59:18am

re: #228 Vicious Babushka

That would be harassment and intimidation, which is not protected speech under the 1st amendment.

If it threatens them with consequences, that would be harrassment and intimidation, but it is free to tell them that it thinks that using contraceptives is morally wrong.

240 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:59:42am

re: #234 lawhawk

I think I've written about that before. The Executive Branch budget is set by Congress. It includes everything from USSS to maintaining, preserving, renovating, and upgrading the White House. It includes the amounts for state dinners and other events as well.

The budgets have been relatively consistent over time, but have increased in recent years due to increased security requirements and renovations underway at the WH (such as building new facilities for the press, underground bunkers, etc.)

To repeat, Congress appropriates the budget for the WH.

Thanks. I think there's a Tweet to Ms. Rubin in my future.

Not that it accomplishes anything, but it makes me feel better.

241 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:00:53am

re: #237 sattv4u2

So, let's say we're talking that the President pushes for 20, or even 50% higher figures than the one in Table 4.1 I link to, the amount actually appropriated has fallen year over year since Obama took office for that particular line.

242 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:01:22am

re: #237 sattv4u2

But like any other dept/agency of the fed gov't, that dept/ agency presents a budget (wish list, if you will) to congress

And if Congress doesn't like it, they can reject it.

And given how the House would sooner shoot their own kids than work with Obama on anything, why would they pass up an opportunity to essentially fuck with his home?

243 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:01:53am

re: #239 Sol Berdinowitz

If it threatens them with consequences, that would be harrassment and intimidation, but it is free to tell them that it thinks that using contraceptives is morally wrong.

What does that have to do with arts and crafts?

If the company that I work for told its female employees that using contraceptives is morally wrong, you better believe there would be class action suits (but we are a UAW shop).

244 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:01:57am

re: #238 sattv4u2

Movie day for me and the Mrs

Anyone seen
Les Mis??

Haven't seen it yet but your wife will love you for taking her to it instead of whatever shoot 'em up film is playing. Hear it's good. And I love musicals.

245 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:03:13am

re: #240 Mattand

Thanks. I think there's a Tweet to Ms. Rubin in my future.

Not that it accomplishes anything, but it makes me feel better.

What's weird is she sounds damn near sensible in most of those resolutions. Who wrote that for her?

246 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:03:44am

re: #241 lawhawk

re: #242 Mattand

{sigh}

I never stated that the REQUEST or the appropriations were out of line

I was commenting on the procedure

In the years he's been in office, has the WH either
A) asked for much more than previous admins
or
B) been denied their request

247 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:05:19am

re: #244 darthstar

Haven't seen it yet but your wife will love you for taking her to it instead of whatever shoot 'em up film is playing. Hear it's good. And I love musicals.

Yeah. Brownie points are always good to bank, but as far as the shoot-em-ups, we prefer a good comedy instead (or, a drama) although she really loved Flight and Skyfall

248 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:06:04am

re: #245 darthstar

What's weird is she sounds damn near sensible in most of those resolutions. Who wrote that for her?

Senate Republicans: Do not allow the confirmation of a new secretary of state unless the current one gives a full accounting of her role and the White House’s role in the Benghazi debacle.

Liberal pundits: Stop blabbering about filibuster reform. It’s a bore, and no one in the Senate thinks it is going to happen.

I'm guessing a Fox News hack wrote these.

249 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:07:20am

re: #246 sattv4u2

re: #242 Mattand

{sigh}

I never stated that the REQUEST or the appropriations were out of line

I was commenting on the procedure

In the years he's been in office, has the WH either
A) asked for much more than previous admins

(sigh)

Citation needed for conservative talking point.

250 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:08:28am

re: #249 Mattand

From Lawhawks 241

let's say we're talking that the President pushes for 20, or even 50% higher figures

I was playing along with the hypothetical

251 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:09:32am

re: #250 sattv4u2

From Lawhawks 241

let's say we're talking that the President pushes for 20, or even 50% higher figures

I was playing along with the hypothetical

No, that's not what you said:

In the years he's been in office, has the WH either
A) asked for much more than previous admins

EDIT: Never mind. My mistake. No caffeine yet. Missed the "has".

252 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:09:56am

re: #249 Mattand

In the years he's been in office, has the WH either
A) asked for much more than previous admins

Well, there was Maliya's birthday party...Michelle could have saved taxpayers dozens of dollars by going to Hobby Lobby.

253 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:11:16am

re: #251 Mattand

No, that's not what you said:

{sigh}

yes, because of what Lawhawk posted!

254 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:11:40am

Wow...a vote...in the senate...that didn't get filibustered.

255 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:11:55am

re: #252 darthstar

Well, there was Maliya's birthday party...Michelle could have saved taxpayers dozens of dollars by going to Hobby Lobby.

Or filled the kids goodie bags with veggies from the garden!!

256 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:12:25am

Yeah, that's what America needs. Lets hold the SoS confirmation hearings hostage until Clinton testifies. Just think, the USA doesn't need an active SoS during these times. What a bunch of bozos. Let the Republicans go ahead and do this so we can show once again that they're basically a bunch of do nothing rednecks intent on obstructionism.

257 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:13:02am

re: #253 sattv4u2

I misread the orignal statement and overlooked the word "has". My mistake.

Although in my defense, a question mark would greatly help defining the original statement as a question.

258 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:13:45am

re: #253 sattv4u2

{sigh}

yes, because of what Lawhawk posted!

Stop blaming Lawhawk. So you asked if President Obama has asked for more money...we get it...you think there may be something to Rubin's opinion...there's no shame in agreeing with her (unless you hold more than a third grade reading level and don't huff paint every day).

259 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:13:57am

re: #254 darthstar

Wow...a vote...in the senate...that didn't get filibustered.

[Embedded content]

We need FISA to fight "terrorism" because "they hate are freedums and whey of life." Don't worry. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.

//

260 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:16:27am

re: #256 Gus

Yeah, that's what America needs. Lets hold the SoS confirmation hearings hostage until Clinton testifies. Just think, the USA doesn't need an active SoS during these times. What a bunch of bozos. Let the Republicans go ahead and do this so we can show once again that they're basically a bunch of do nothing rednecks intent on obstructionism.

4 Americans die in foreign country with a partially hostile population that was/is still in the middle of a revolution; years of hearings, firings, possible impeachment procedings (they would if they could), massive conspiracies.

26 people (including 20 children) killed in an attack on American soil? Fucking crickets.

Each one of them should have a flagpole shoved up their ass.

261 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:16:33am

re: #259 Gus

We need FISA to fight "terrorism" because "they hate are freedums and whey of life." Don't worry. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.

//

I watched "Person of Interest" last night. I find it disturbing that 1. I enjoy the show and 2. I like 'the machine' though it does show more emotion than Jim Caviezel does.

262 Bear  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:16:56am

Storming Norman. RIP [Link: www.adn.com...]

263 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:18:06am

re: #258 darthstar



Stop blaming Lawhawk

How is what I stated in any way BLAMING Lawhawk? I was having a conversation. It's kinda what we do (or at the very least, should attempt to do)
you think there may be something to Rubin's opinion

To qoute someone else who posts here
What's weird is she sounds damn near sensible in most of those resolutions

unless you hold more than a third grade reading level and
don't huff paint every day)

Actually, too many hockey pucks to the head in the days before mandatory helmets, and you ?

264 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:19:20am

re: #254 darthstar

re: #259 Gus

Anyone else bothered by the fact that one of the few thing to pass the Senate with that kind of vote is a bill that re-authorizes secret, probably-not-Constituional courts?

265 The Mountain That Blogs  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:20:31am

re: #254 darthstar

Didn't that just get rejected yesterday?

266 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:22:03am

OMFG *HEAD DESK* OF THE DAY

267 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:22:34am

re: #264 Mattand

re: #259 Gus

Anyone else bothered by the fact that one of the few thing to pass the Senate with that kind of vote is a bill that re-authorizes secret, probably-not-Constituional courts?

We no longer have a "right" to privacy since 9/11. The common wisdom today is that any and all citizens are subject to surveillance when the government sees fit. No warrants, no anything.

268 bratwurst  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:23:12am

re: #246 sattv4u2

{sigh}

re: #249 Mattand

(sigh)

re: #253 sattv4u2

{sigh}

This should help you guys:

Image: tire_patch_kit.jpg

269 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:23:13am

re: #264 Mattand

re: #259 Gus

Anyone else bothered by the fact that one of the few thing to pass the Senate with that kind of vote is a bill that re-authorizes secret, probably-not-Constituional courts?

Well, at least they can bipartisanly agree on something, even if it does violate the Constitution in the name of 'security.'

They should have attached a bill fixing the **scary voice** FISCAL CLIFF to it for shits n' giggles.

270 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:24:56am

re: #268 bratwurst

re: #249 Mattand

re: #253 sattv4u2

This should help you guys:

Image: tire_patch_kit.jpg

That would be more of a hisssss than a sigh, no?

271 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:25:15am

re: #266 Vicious Babushka

OMFG *HEAD DESK* OF THE DAY

[Embedded content]

I'm currently constructing a helipad in my backyard to park my Apache helicopter.

272 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:26:09am

re: #262 Bear

Storming Norman. RIP [Link: www.adn.com...]

Back during Bush 41's time there was a weatherman on the local Fox station in Sacramento who was called "Stormin' Norman"...Sacramento's Stormin' Norman got arrested for sticking his dick through a hole in the divider between stalls in the men's room at Macy's...and then Iraq/Kuwait happened and another Stormin' Norman got into the media. So I was never able to take him seriously when he wasn't called by his formal title, General Schwarzkopf.

At ease, General. Rest in peace.

273 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:26:22am

re: #269 Ghost of Tom Joad

Well, at least they can bipartisanly agree on something, even if it does violate the Constitution in the name of 'security.'

They should have attached a bill fixing the **scary voice** FISCAL CLIFF to it for shits n' giggles.

Amazing the crap they can churn out from congress. A defense bill with some bizarre amendment from Akin -- about teh ghey in the military. NDAA and FISA all in a flash. I'm sure the other half of time was spent on naming post offices. Yet they're twiddling their thumbs on "fiscal cliff."

274 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:26:38am

re: #237 sattv4u2

More on the FY 2011-2013 budgets.

You can see that the requests/appropriations were generally approved as is.

From what I can tell, the Executive Budget is generally approved as requested and there aren't any major changes from the proposed to actual. Obama has requested less than Bush, and is more in line with pre-2001 spending/expenditures. Some of the Bush costs were assoicated with Iraq reconstruction, which is now coming off the books, which is why the budget is returning to its prior levels.

275 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:27:42am

re: #271 Ghost of Tom Joad

Heh, that's what the underground bunker is for - storing my F-35 VTOL. And fleet of Global Hawks and Reapers.

276 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:28:21am

re: #274 lawhawk

From what I can tell, the Executive Budget is generally approved as requested and there aren't any major changes from the proposed to actual

So all the wailing and gnashing of teeth how congress will do anything to stick it to Obama, not so much

Thanks. That was my point!

277 Mattand  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:29:42am

re: #274 lawhawk

More on the FY 2011-2013 budgets.

You can see that the requests/appropriations were generally approved as is.

From what I can tell, the Executive Budget is generally approved as requested and there aren't any major changes from the proposed to actual. Obama has requested less than Bush, and is more in line with pre-2001 spending/expenditures. Some of the Bush costs were assoicated with Iraq reconstruction, which is now coming off the books, which is why the budget is returning to its prior levels.

I think the important thing here is that this proves that Jennifer Rubin is a hack who passes off conservative talking points as journalism.

278 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:31:38am

To the pods! Yes, watching the Republicans run around looking for excuses in Congress is a lot like the final scenes in Spaceballs, the Movie

279 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:32:03am

Needed: Sherpas to guide us through fiscal cliff panic

Coverage of the fiscal cliff has also been affected by a usually laudable journalistic instinct: assume nothing unless it is verified. The likelihood that the Bush tax cuts for the middle class will not be continued is remote—but as long as it exists, reporters are treating it as a real possibility. And since respected non-partisan groups like the Tax Policy Center and the Congressional Budget Office have quantified the effects of this remote outcome, these numbers only add to public skittishness over the continued budgetary deadlock.

As the days dwindle down to a precious few before Washington reaches its statutory tax and budgetary deadlines, the news media should spend more time comforting the afflicted rather than scaring them. Readers, for example, should know that their taxes only go up when the IRS adjusts its withholding tables—and not when the ball comes down on New Year’s Eve. What we need are more sherpas from the press to help us get to the summit of the fiscal cliff honestly, realistically, and with a minimum of panic.

280 The Mountain That Blogs  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:34:02am

re: #278 darthstar

McConnell filibustering his own bill would have been hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

281 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:34:20am

Not looking good.
Delhi rape victim's condition 'deteriorates'

A female student gang-raped on a bus in India's capital Delhi has "taken a turn for the worse" at a Singapore hospital, doctors say.

The 23-year-old arrived in Singapore on Thursday after undergoing three operations in a Delhi hospital.

"Her vital signs are deteriorating with signs of severe

282 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:34:32am

re: #279 Killgore Trout

Sherpas?

Cool
Will there be Marbled Cats and Red Pandas too???

283 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:35:04am

re: #278 darthstar

To the pods! Yes, watching the Republicans run around looking for excuses in Congress is a lot like the final scenes in Spaceballs, the Movie

[Embedded content]

Escape pods my ass. They've gone straight to ludicrous speed and while they're desperately hanging onto something are asking for the next gear.

284 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:35:40am

re: #280 The Mountain That Blogs

McConnell filibustering his own bill would have been hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

That's why I want Barney Frank to be Kerry's temporary replacement. I think he'd love to have a few months on the floor mocking McConnell for being a pathetic turtle.

285 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:37:30am

re: #279 Killgore Trout

Sorry. Panic sells. More eyes = more advertising $$. WE'RE ALL FUCKING GOING TO DIE!!!eventually

286 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:41:28am

re: #280 The Mountain That Blogs

McConnell filibustering his own bill would have been hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

It was so pathetic it's like something out of an old 30s/40s comic skit. You've got the Senate minority leader blocking his own bill, and you've got the House majority leader (I use that term painfully) who can't come close to getting his own legislation passed by his own caucus.

It's gotten so absurd that the Onion is going to have to sue them for plagiarism.

287 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:42:00am

re: #181 Ghost of Tom Joad

I have a sinking feeling Halliburton will be in charge of the design and construction of the new space-station's only exhaust port.

They don't do that kind of work. They build buildings and roads. Actual war machines are not their department, though their KBR subsidiary does provide logistics for military operations, including work for the UN. If UN troops are ultimately sent into northern Mali, it'll likely be KBR providing the logistics.

288 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:43:40am

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

They don't do that kind of work. They build buildings and roads. Actual war machines are not their department, though their KBR subsidiary does provide logistics for military operations, including work for the UN. If UN troops are ultimately sent into northern Mali, it'll likely be KBR providing the logistics.

Halliburton/KBR also makes those fancy showers that fry our troops. Fucking cheap no-bid contract abusing cocksuckers.

289 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:44:48am

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

They don't do that kind of work. They build buildings and roads. Actual war machines are not their department, though their KBR subsidiary does provide logistics for military operations, including work for the UN. If UN troops are ultimately sent into northern Mali, it'll likely be KBR providing the logistics.

You were toilet-trained at gunpoint, weren't you?

290 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:44:52am


291 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:46:27am

re: #290 Gus

Glenn Reynolds: The Real Victim of Newtown is the NRA

We should put armed guards outside every NRA office to keep them from becoming victims of gun-control activists armed with slingshots.

292 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:48:47am

re: #266 Vicious Babushka

OMFG *HEAD DESK* OF THE DAY

[Embedded content]

That's just Fischer tweeting about an NRO article by the far more sensible Kevin D. Williamson. And Williamson does have some ground to stand on:

In the Miller case of 1939, the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd Amendment did not overturn local firearms laws on short-barreled shotguns or the National Firearms Act because a sawed-off shotgun was not the sort of weapon a well-regulated militia would use.

In the Timothy Joe Emerson case within the past decade, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Miller was not on point in its decision because the Model 92 Beretta that Emerson owned was exactly the sort of gun a well-regulated militia would use, in as it is issued by both the US and French armies.

293 Bear  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:49:37am

re: #272 darthstar

Way back B4 WW2 there was a radio program with General's father about Sing-Sing Prison. Scared the h--- out of me. Thus with all the news stories about Gen. , I always thought about that old radio series.

294 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:50:13am

re: #289 Ghost of Tom Joad

You were toilet-trained at gunpoint, weren't you?

Nope. According to my mother I was actually relatively easy to toilet-train.

295 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:51:40am

re: #290 Gus

[Embedded content]

Yes, the poor, poor NRA, which right now is crawling itself out of an avalanche of money from member donations and lobby money coming from the weapons manufacturers.

296 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:53:15am

Over 200 lbs. Ain't she cute!

How is it so far today?

It's snowing in my part of the world.

297 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:54:08am

re: #294 Dark_Falcon

Nope. According to my mother I was actually relatively easy to toilet-train.

They just told you to go pack the cannon? Drop a grenade in the tunnel?

298 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:55:11am

re: #297 darthstar

They just told you to go pack the cannon? Drop a grenade in the tunnel?

[smiles and rolls eyes]

299 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:56:17am

re: #290 Gus

*Eyes roll*
All of the NRA's "wounds" are completely self inflicted. Quite unlike the real victims of any criminal shoot.

300 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:56:19am

re: #294 Dark_Falcon

re: #298 Dark_Falcon

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din

301 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:56:39am

re: #245 darthstar

What's weird is she sounds damn near sensible in most of those resolutions. Who wrote that for her?

CNN: Transform yourself into the Jake Tapper News Network. You’ve made a brilliant hire; now put him on as much as possible, in as many formats as possible.

I think Jake Tapper wrote that one.

302 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 8:58:17am

re: #299 Political Atheist

*Eyes roll*
All of the NRA's "wounds" are completely self inflicted. Quite unlike the real victims of any criminal shoot.

Reynolds is going for the Drudge, Breitbart audience. He's always been whacked as it is.

303 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:01:11am

re: #300 sattv4u2

re: #298 Dark_Falcon

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din

Getting into that kind of word fight with Darthstar is like mud-wrestling a pig: It leaves you dirty and tired and the pig likes it. Better to take the high road, since unlike the low road it won't get flooded out rising seas. [rimshot]

304 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:04:11am

The NRA is the real victim of Newtown? Really?

The NRA was an afterthought to Newtown until LaPierre opened his yapper on the Friday after the massacre and proceeded to blame everyone and everything except the prodigious amounts of guns strewn across the landscape (and hours before we learned of yet another massacre at a church in PA, and before another gunman murdered two firefighters responding to a fire in NY, among others).

It was once the NRA signaled that they would double down on demanding unfettered access to firearms all while pushing for the limitations on free speech and rights of the mentally ill that the rhetoric took full aim on the NRA. Not before.

After all, the NRA issued a statement that it would seek to make a meaningful contribution to the debate. Well, turns out they lied. They have no intention to making a meaningful contribution - only to rake in the donations and pump up the gun sales as much as possible.

The NRA attacks video game makers - the same video game makers who make deals with firearms manufacturers to showcase their weaponry in FPSs. The credits roll at the end of the video games and you see all the big names are there.

Reynolds has it backwards.

305 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:07:28am

re: #304 lawhawk

The NRA is the real victim of Newtown? Really?

The NRA was an afterthought to Newtown until LaPierre opened his yapper on the Friday after the massacre and proceeded to blame everyone and everything except the prodigious amounts of guns strewn across the landscape (and hours before we learned of yet another massacre at a church in PA, and before another gunman murdered two firefighters responding to a fire in NY, among others).

It was once the NRA signaled that they would double down on demanding unfettered access to firearms all while pushing for the limitations on free speech and rights of the mentally ill that the rhetoric took full aim on the NRA. Not before.

After all, the NRA issued a statement that it would seek to make a meaningful contribution to the debate. Well, turns out they lied. They have no intention to making a meaningful contribution - only to rake in the donations and pump up the gun sales as much as possible.

The NRA attacks video game makers - the same video game makers who make deals with firearms manufacturers to showcase their weaponry in FPSs. The credits roll at the end of the video games and you see all the big names are there.

Reynolds has it his head on backwards.

Fixed.

306 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:07:55am

re: #304 lawhawk

The NRA is the real victim of Newtown? Really?

The NRA was an afterthought to Newtown until LaPierre opened his yapper on the Friday after the massacre and proceeded to blame everyone and everything except the prodigious amounts of guns strewn across the landscape (and hours before we learned of yet another massacre at a church in PA, and before another gunman murdered two firefighters responding to a fire in NY, among others).

It was once the NRA signaled that they would double down on demanding unfettered access to firearms all while pushing for the limitations on free speech and rights of the mentally ill that the rhetoric took full aim on the NRA. Not before.

After all, the NRA issued a statement that it would seek to make a meaningful contribution to the debate. Well, turns out they lied. They have no intention to making a meaningful contribution - only to rake in the donations and pump up the gun sales as much as possible.

The NRA attacks video game makers - the same video game makers who make deals with firearms manufacturers to showcase their weaponry in FPSs. The credits roll at the end of the video games and you see all the big names are there.

Reynolds has it backwards.

Obama's presidency and now the added fear of another AWB has just caused Moar Gunz to be purchased. False Scarcity is a great marketing tool.

307 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:09:11am

re: #303 Dark_Falcon

Getting into that kind of word fight with Darthstar is like mud-wrestling a pig; It leaves you dirty and tired and the pig likes it. Better to take the high road, since unlike the low road it won't get flooded out rising seas. [rimshot]

Word fight? I was just trying to imagine what kind of euphemisms your parents might have used to inspire you to deposit your shit into a proper receptacle. Given your encyclopedic knowledge of and passion for all things weaponry, I shudder to think what you imagine at night when you're alone in your room cleaning your barrel.

308 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:11:55am

re: #306 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Obama's presidency and now the added fear of another AWB has just caused Moar Gunz to be purchased. False Scarcity is a great marketing tool.

Fear AWB?

309 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:12:31am

re: #307 darthstar

Word fight? I was just trying to imagine what kind of euphemisms your parents might have used to inspire you to deposit your shit into a proper receptacle. Given your encyclopedic knowledge of and passion for all things weaponry, I shudder to think what you imagine at night when you're alone in your room cleaning your barrel.

'Word fight' is would have been what would have ensued if I'd gone after you over your #297. But I've been around you long enough to understand you weren't being malicious and to know that going after you over your humor just makes me look like an old crab. So I decided on a different and better natured tactic.

310 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:13:32am

re: #307 darthstar

I shudder to think what you imagine at night when you're alone in your room cleaning your barrel.

What a coincidence you should mention that

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
The FBI's secret file on Marilyn Monroe: Document that shows agency kept track of intimate details about actress

311 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:14:18am

re: #306 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Obama's presidency and now the added fear of another AWB has just caused Moar Gunz to be purchased. False Scarcity is a great marketing tool.

I've used False Scarcity many a time myself to get someone to buy something. Done right, its an important tool in a salesman's arsenal.

312 dragonfire1981  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:15:47am

Riddle me this:

America is "allegedly" the greatest free nation and greatest democracy the planet has ever seen (that would be American Expceptionalism I'm talking about).

Why then:

- Do we have a major government agency who hasn't had a permanent head in 6 years?
- Do we have a congress who has NOT been able to pass a budget in YEARS, relying on damaging stopgap spending messages?
- Are we about to go over the so-called Fiscal Cliff when it all it would take is some common sense to come to a reasonable solution?
- Are there a good percentage of us willing to go to war simply because we don't like the idea of a few extra requirements for owning guns?
- Are people dying and living in pain because they cannot afford the astronomical cost of health care or the high premiums of health insurance?

313 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:17:35am

re: #312 dragonfire1981

FU COMMIE!

314 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:18:12am

re: #312 dragonfire1981

Riddle me this:

America is "allegedly" the greatest free nation and greatest democracy the planet has ever seen (that would be American Expceptionalism I'm talking about).

Why then:

- Do we have a major government agency who hasn't had a permanent head in 6 years?
- Do we have a congress who has NOT been able to pass a budget in YEARS, relying on damaging stopgap spending messages?
- Are we about to go over the so-called Fiscal Cliff when it all it would take is some common sense to come to a reasonable solution?
- Are there a good percentage of us willing to go to war simply because we don't like the idea of a few extra requirements for owning guns?
- Are people dying and living in pain because they cannot afford the astronomical cost of health care or the high premiums of health insurance?

You do realize that the "Canadian running down America" is rather trite, eh?

315 Kronocide  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:21:42am

Pew pew pew pew, Murica.

PHOENIX -- Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said Thursday that he plans to deploy his armed volunteer posse to protect Valley schools from the kind of violence that happened in the Connecticut shooting tragedy. Arpaio believes having armed law officers around schools will deter would-be criminals from trying anything violent and, possibly, stop them if they do.

“I have the authority to mobilize private citizens and fight crime in this county,” Arpaio said.

316 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:22:20am

re: #315 Kronocide

Pew pew pew pew, Murica.

NO IT HASN'T YOU DOOFUS.

I only remember 2 school shootings in Israel in the last 40 years: 1974 in Maalot and 2008 at Mercaz Harav in Jerusalem. There were armed guards at Mercaz Harav.

317 Kronocide  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:25:09am

Posse Comitatus = Posse, Come on At Us!

318 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:25:13am

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

I've used False Scarcity many a time myself to get someone to buy something. Done right, its an important tool in a salesman's arsenal.

If you told a client there were only a few seats left for a conference and he got there to find an empty room except for him and another rube, was he likely to be a repeat customer?

Done right, honesty is far more reliable a sales tool.

319 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:25:18am

re: #316 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


NO IT HASN'T YOU DOOFUS.

You're developing a very unhealthy obsession with that shit stain.

320 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:25:27am

re: #315 Kronocide

re: #316 Vicious Babushka

Joe Arpaio + Bryan Fischer = A Wingularity so dense that not even light can escape the pull of its Stupid. Strange to say, though, the friction caused by gravitational compression of the Stupid makes it a major source of heat:

Image: The_Stupid__It_Burns_by_Plognark.png

321 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:28:31am

re: #318 darthstar

If you told a client there were only a few seats left for a conference and he got there to find an empty room except for him and another rube, was he likely to be a repeat customer?

Done right, honesty is far more reliable a sales tool.

That never happened to me. And was always honest about what the conference would address and how it worked and if I honestly thought it wouldn't be a good fit for a given person or group I didn't push it on them. But unless you establish urgency you don't get action promptly enough to overcome the inertia that soon takes over again.

322 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:29:08am

Okay, I'm only home for one day and then it's back up to the mountains for another five days of skiing. Time to get some housework done and care for my wife who has the flu bug I had two days ago - had me alternating between hugging and sitting on the toilet all day...bitch of a bug.

Have a good day, everyone. Try not to be wrong while I'm gone.

323 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:30:52am

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

I've used False Scarcity many a time myself to get someone to buy something. Done right, its an important tool in a salesman's arsenal.

It's unethical.

324 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:30:54am

re: #322 darthstar

Okay, I'm only home for one day and then it's back up to the mountains for another five days of skiing. Time to get some housework done and care for my wife who has the flu bug I had two days ago - had me alternating between hugging and sitting on the toilet all day...bitch of a bug.

Have a good day, everyone. Try not to be wrong while I'm gone.

Image: Someone-is-wrong-on-internet.png

325 darthstar  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:32:44am

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

That never happened to me. And was always honest about what the conference would address and how it worked and if I honestly thought it wouldn't be a good fit for a given person or group I didn't push it on them. But unless you establish urgency you don't get action promptly enough to overcome the inertia that soon takes over again.

Establishing urgency isn't the same as false scarcity. You can say, "I only have twenty seats left and can't hold them for you as I have other clients" and be honest about it. Saying "I only have twenty seats left" when you actually have forty or fifty of them is false scarcity.

Okay...time to run. Laterz.

326 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:33:01am

re: #312 dragonfire1981

Riddle me this:

America is "allegedly" the greatest free nation and greatest democracy the planet has ever seen (that would be American Expceptionalism I'm talking about).

Why then:

- Do we have a major government agency who hasn't had a permanent head in 6 years?
- Do we have a congress who has NOT been able to pass a budget in YEARS, relying on damaging stopgap spending messages?
- Are we about to go over the so-called Fiscal Cliff when it all it would take is some common sense to come to a reasonable solution?
- Are there a good percentage of us willing to go to war simply because we don't like the idea of a few extra requirements for owning guns?
- Are people dying and living in pain because they cannot afford the astronomical cost of health care or the high premiums of health insurance?

I think that would fall under the Right of the "pursuit" of happiness Category, as the debate goes.

We have, however, decided as a Nation to include entitlements in our economy. So one has to be willing to rethink the hard-core "pursuit" concept.

327 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:33:01am

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, right. About that "far more sensible" Kevin D. Williamson: National Review Goes Full Caveman: ‘Men Select Mates for Fertility, Women Select for Status’

328 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:34:40am

re: #327 Charles Johnson

Yeah, right. About that "far more sensible" Kevin D. Williamson: National Review Goes Full Caveman: ‘Men Select Mates for Fertility, Women Select for Status’

That was a one-off, he hasn't been loony like that before or since. I figure everyone's entitled to one Uber-DERP in their lives.

330 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:37:05am
331 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:37:39am

Sigh. We're back in Robert Spencer mode again, I see.

332 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:38:15am

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

That was a one-off, he hasn't been loony like that before or since. I figure everyone's entitled to one Uber-DERP in their lives.

Yourself included, I suppose.

333 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:41:56am

Ok, can we require the CMP training for any Semi-Automatic Weapon purchase or possession, registration required and re-upped every 10 years.

Turn the 2 day class into a week-long seminar one for which one may have to use vacation time/travel and incur hotel expenses?

Just at thought I had in the wee hours.

334 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:42:55am

re: #316 Vicious Babushka

There only have been two school incidents in Israel. Period. Ma'alot and Mercaz Harav. Both terrorist incidents - at Ma'alot the terrorists infiltrated from Lebanon, killed people before hitting the school to take hostages demanding the release of other terrorists. The IDF's Golani brigade stormed the building and many were killed or injured in the ensuing battle. 25 hostages, including 22 children, were killed and 68 more were injured.

The Israeli response was to create a special police unit to respond to future incidents.

At Mercaz Harav Kook, it took 9 minutes to engage and kill the shooter according to the timeline of events. First police on scene arrived in 4 minutes, but that officer went to secure the scene to prevent others from entering an active scene. 8 people were killed before the gunman was shot and killed. A part time student shot the gunman from a nearby rooftop as an IDF soldier and graduate of the yeshiva came in to confront the terrorist. The gunman fired 500-600 rounds before he was killed.

Neither incident would support the NRA/guns in school position.

335 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:43:59am
336 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:48:07am

re: #333 Holidays are Family Fun Time

registration required and re-upped every 10 years.

I'd make the registration yearly. You have to renew a cars reg every year, so why not?
Turn the 2 day class into a week-long seminar one for which one may have to use vacation time/travel and incur hotel expenses?

Could be "x' amount of classes within a specific time frame, say 2 months. That way someone could do it on nights, weekends or days off. There are plenty of registered ranges all over the country so I doubt there would be any need for travel/ hotels

337 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:48:49am

re: #333 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Ok, can we require the CMP training for any Semi-Automatic Weapon purchase or possession, registration required and re-upped every 10 years.

Turn the 2 day class into a week-long seminar one for which one may have to use vacation time/travel and incur hotel expenses?

Just at thought I had in the wee hours.

Weeklong is excessive for meeting storage safety requirements and learning safe handling. Most of the time in longer classes like that is spent out on the range learning accuracy or running drills (with AR-15 or AKMs, room clearing is a normal part of the training). Those additional days aren't needed for safety purposes and would make taking the class impossible for the great many people who cannot take 5 days off in a row (a category that has included me at most jobs I have held).

338 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:53:44am

re: #336 sattv4u2

registration required and re-upped every 10 years.

I'd make the registration yearly. You have to renew a cars reg every year, so why not?
Turn the 2 day class into a week-long seminar one for which one may have to use vacation time/travel and incur hotel expenses?

Could be "x' amount of classes within a specific time frame, say 2 months. That way someone could do it on nights, weekends or days off. There are plenty of registered ranges all over the country so I doubt there would be any need for travel/ hotels

Well, owning a semi-automatic is a big responsibility. I think an substantial investment in time and effort required in the week long seminar concept would curtail purchases (and increase perceived macho status). Annual re-upping is a bureaucratic mess, I don't think we want a "department of semi-automatic weapons" similar to a our State DMV's.

I wouldn't mind a sign-off by a psychiatrist & psychologist who were moderators of such a seminar. Professionals who had the opportunity to observe and evaluate the candidate over a week long period, out of their home environment.

I'm just trying to offer workable solutions that won't be feel-good legislation causing years of court battles before they can be implemented.

If the CMP is the last line of defense of this country (perceived militia) then a week long seminar isn't too much to ask, every 10 years, IMHO.

339 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:55:22am

re: #338 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Just trying to think of workable

In the sense of "Belgian compromise"?

340 rwdflynavy  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:56:43am

re: #338 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Well, owning a semi-automatic is a big responsibility. I think an substantial investment in time and effort required in the week long seminar concept would curtail purchases (and increase perceived macho status). Annual re-upping is a bureaucratic mess, I don't think we want a "department of semi-automatic weapons" similar to a our State DMV's.

I wouldn't mind a sign-off by a psychiatrist & psychologist who were moderators of such a seminar. Professionals who had the opportunity to observe and evaluate the candidate over a week long period, out of their home environment.

I'm just trying to offer workable solutions that won't be feel-good legislation causing years of court battles before they can be implemented.

Just trying to think of workable

If the CMP is the last line of defense of this country (perceived militia) then a week long seminar isn't too much to ask, every 10 years, IMHO.

If that doesn't keep criminals from breaking the law, I don't know what will.//

341 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:58:04am

re: #340 rwdflynavy

If that doesn't keep criminals from breaking the law, I don't know what will.//

Criminals still get drugs. Why make drugs illegal?
Criminals still kill. See where that logic leads?
;)

342 Kronocide  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:59:13am

re: #341 Varek Raith

Criminals still get drugs. Why make drugs illegal?
Criminals still kill. See where that logic leads?
;)

If you make laws against murder, people will still murder. Why make laws against murder?

343 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:00:15am

re: #339 Sol Berdinowitz

In the sense of "Belgian compromise"?

I don't think that's quite accurate. Although, I agree, no one is ever going to be totally happy with anything that is done on this issue.

A true ban is not workable, anymore than deporting every undocumented alien is.

No regulation is just plain stupid.

344 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:00:37am

re: #340 rwdflynavy

If that doesn't keep criminals from breaking the law, I don't know what will.//

Well, known felons are not the one's shooting up schools.

345 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:00:46am

re: #338 Holidays are Family Fun Time

re: #338 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Annual re-upping is a bureaucratic mess

Doesn't have to be
Basic info on the 1st registration (name, address, ect) type of weapon, when/ where purchased, serial number. Each year that info is either verified or updated (i.e, a change of address or if you sold the weapon)

346 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:02:06am

Will the week long courses be subsidized every 10 years so that any American of any socio-economic level can attend or is the purpose to ensure that only the correct people have access to guns?

347 Mich-again  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:03:52am

re: #346 William Barnett-Lewis

Will the week long courses be subsidized every 10 years so that any American of any socio-economic level can attend or is the purpose to ensure that only the correct people have access to guns?

Civil rights are doled out only to those who can afford them.

348 rwdflynavy  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:05:58am

re: #344 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Well, known felons are not the one's shooting up schools.

Nope, just those Pre-felons.

349 rwdflynavy  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:06:17am

re: #348 rwdflynavy

Nope, just those Pre-felons.

Or is it Felon-in progress?

350 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:06:32am

re: #347 Mich-again

Service guarantees citizenship. /would you like to know more?

351 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:07:18am

re: #349 rwdflynavy

So then, what would you suggest?

352 jaunte  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:07:21am
353 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:07:30am

re: #346 William Barnett-Lewis

Will the week long courses be subsidized every 10 years so that any American of any socio-economic level can attend or is the purpose to ensure that only the correct people have access to guns?

hmmm, that is workable. First of all, if one has the funds to purchase the firearm and ammo and pay for time at the range to practice . . . .I'm not sure the cost of travel and hotels is a going to be the issue. Offer the class at no cost-take it out of the Defense Budget.

The purpose is to make sure those that legally own a semi-auto are actually people who can effectively use them if called to do so. Really, if the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is last -line of defense of country, why not make sure those that legally own can actually do so.

354 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:08:07am

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

That was a one-off, he hasn't been loony like that before or since. I figure everyone's entitled to one Uber-DERP in their lives.

Kevin D. Williamson is a total right wing hack, who promotes every single bad idea that the right comes up with. He's the author of the ludicrous "Politically Incorrect Guide to Socialism."

That caveman article was no "one-off" -- that's who he is.

355 rwdflynavy  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:08:20am

re: #351 Varek Raith

So then, what would you suggest?

Either properly secure gun-free zones or eliminate them.

356 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:09:15am

re: #355 rwdflynavy

Either properly secure gun-free zones or eliminate them.

I think this is going to be tried on a state-by-state basis. Maybe community-by community. We shall see how it works.

357 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:10:58am

re: #355 rwdflynavy

Part of the reason for the gun-free zone is that there are enhanced penalties imposed. In Iowa for instance, violations of gun-free zones is to double the penalties otherwise imposed.

The penalties are part of the deterrence effort.

358 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:11:42am

I don't see how better firearms training is going to prevent a single gun homicide.

359 rwdflynavy  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:12:01am

re: #357 lawhawk

Part of the reason for the gun-free zone is that there are enhanced penalties imposed. In Iowa for instance, violations of gun-free zones is to double the penalties otherwise imposed.

The penalties are part of the deterrence effort.

If your goal is murder, I doubt the effectiveness of the deterrence.

360 rwdflynavy  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:14:33am

re: #358 Charles Johnson

I don't see how better firearms training is going to prevent a single gun homicide.

It won't. This is all reminiscent of voter ID legislation. Make it harder to own a firearm and fewer undesirables will vote...oops, I mean buy guns!!!

361 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:14:37am

re: #359 rwdflynavy

If your goal is murder, I doubt the effectiveness of the deterrence.

Funny how I only ever see this logic applied to guns.

362 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:14:45am

re: #359 rwdflynavy

If the goal is to commit a crime, then the penalties will help keep that person off the streets for longer if the gun's used for a crime other than murder (armed robbery for instance). That person will be off the street for twice as long so there is a deterrent result.

But by your reasoning, one could argue that even a death sentence isn't sufficient to deter someone intent upon murder.

363 Interesting Times  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:15:23am

re: #359 rwdflynavy

If your goal is murder, I doubt the effectiveness of the deterrence.

If your goal is murder, why should society make it ridiculously easy for you to procure weapons that make it as quick and easy as possible?

364 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:15:34am

re: #358 Charles Johnson

I don't see how better firearms training is going to prevent a single gun homicide.

I was thinking it might curtail the amount of legal guns on the streets, which is one of the goals yes?

If manufactures can only sell to those who qualify per a passing a rigorous seminar, the market for legal domestic sales will be severely curtailed.

As it seems it has been legal guns involved in school shootings, . . . .

365 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:16:01am

So, gun advocates see nothing wrong with the fact that we're the only place in the world where we need to post heavily armed guards at elementary schools?

366 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:17:00am

re: #362 lawhawk

If the goal is to commit a crime, then the penalties will help keep that person off the streets for longer if the gun's used for a crime other than murder (armed robbery for instance). That person will be off the street for twice as long so there is a deterrent result.

But by your reasoning, one could argue that even a death sentence isn't sufficient to deter someone intent upon murder.

the death sentence is not a deterrent for one determined to commit suicide by murderous rampage in schools.

367 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:17:03am

re: #356 Holidays are Family Fun Time

I think this is going to be tried on a state-by-state basis. Maybe community-by community. We shall see how it works.

You won't see how it works. I don't possibly see how you could. Something like a school massacre, let's face it, is thankfully pretty rare.

I mean, what the hell is the barometer for success?

368 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:17:09am

To: nickcarraway

Look! It's a contest to see which race of people were most disrespected. In one corner we have the blacks with their slavery. In the other corner, we have the Jews with their holocausts.

The Irish are on the sidelines drinking whiskey and beer - if they stay sober enough, they are going to fight the winner.

39 posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 9:41:26 PM by SamAdams76

369 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:17:30am

re: #367 Ghost of Tom Joad

You won't see how it works. I don't possibly see how you could. Something like a school massacre, let's face it, is thankfully pretty rare.

I mean, what the hell is the barometer for success?

good question.

370 Lidane  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:18:17am

re: #368 Gus

Racism, anti-Semitism, and ethnic bigotry all in the same post.

It's a wingnut trifecta.

371 Lidane  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:19:11am

re: #365 Varek Raith

So, gun advocates see nothing wrong with the fact that we're the only place in the world where we need to post heavily armed guards at elementary schools?

Why do you hate America?

///

372 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:20:27am

re: #370 Lidane

Racism, anti-Semitism, and ethnic bigotry all in the same post.

It's a wingnut trifecta.

Another:

To: nickcarraway

Only N-words are allowed to use the N-word.

3 posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 5:09:48 PM by E. Pluribus Unum ("Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism." --Vladimir Lenin)

More here.

373 Interesting Times  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:20:28am

Remember the case of Jeanne Assam, supposedly a glowing example of a Concealed Carry "good guy" with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun? The gunman still managed to kill two people before she could shoot him - and she was an ex-cop! Armed guard or no armed guard, the killer will always have the advantage of surprise and chaos. As ralphieboy has often said, it's much easier to indiscriminately kill with a gun than use it precisely and accurately for the defense of others.

You want fewer gun deaths? Get your society to have fewer guns.

374 jaunte  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:20:57am

re: #368 Gus

A victimized tea troll!

375 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:21:03am

re: #365 Varek Raith

So, gun advocates see nothing wrong with the fact that we're the only place in the world where we need to post heavily armed guards at elementary schools?

How about a tax on gun and ammunition sales to help finance hiring all these armed security guards?

376 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:24:04am

re: #369 Holidays are Family Fun Time

good question.

Meh, hit post by accident. I was trying to finish up by asking at what point would arming the shit out of these "gun-free zones" be considered a success if no shootings happened, considering they're in effect to stop only mass shootings like Sandy Hook or Columbine (are they going to strip-search each student or buy metal detectors for even the lowly schools to prevent students, or hell, even teachers, from bringing in weapons?).

They'll wind up arming a school district in bumfucknowheresville, and after a year (or hell, a week is fine with a gun-nut) all we'll hear will be how much of a success it was because none of the students were gunned down, not realizing that it probably wouldn't have happened anyway.

And if you turn the school into kiddie boot-camp, then what? A killer hell-bent on death will just turn to another target of opportunity. And then we'll wind up needing heavily-armed police at every turn of our lives.

377 Lidane  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:25:03am

re: #375 Sol Berdinowitz

How about a tax on gun and ammunition sales to help finance hiring all these armed security guards?

The wingnut head explosions from a proposal like that would be both hilarious and scary in equal measure.

378 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:26:06am

re: #376 Ghost of Tom Joad

Meh, hit post by accident. I was trying to finish up by asking at what point would arming the shit out of these "gun-free zones" be considered a success if no shootings happened, considering they're in effect to stop only mass shootings like Sandy Hook or Columbine (are they going to strip-search each student or buy metal detectors for even the lowly schools to prevent students, or hell, even teachers, from bringing in weapons?).

They'll wind up arming a school district in bumfucknowheresville, and after a year (or hell, a week is fine with a gun-nut) all we'll hear will be how much of a success it was because none of the students were gunned down, not realizing that it probably wouldn't have happened anyway.

And if you turn the school into kiddie boot-camp, then what? A killer hell-bent on death will just turn to another target of opportunity. And then we'll wind up needing heavily-armed police at every turn of our lives.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of armed-guards at schools as rule-of-thumb. It's sad to me that many school districts (28K, IIRC) have done so already as a result of need to protect the students from each other.

379 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:26:39am

re: #377 Lidane

The wingnut head explosions from a proposal like that would be both hilarious and scary in equal measure.

Pretty much. It worked with smokers because, well, the most they could do was just cough chunks of charred lung at you.

380 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:27:22am

re: #377 Lidane

The wingnut head explosions from a proposal like that would be both hilarious and scary in equal measure.

It also touches on what William Barnett-Louis said above. It would create a socio-economic barrier to what the Supreme Court has deemed an Individual Right.

381 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:29:28am

re: #365 Varek Raith

So, gun advocates see nothing wrong with the fact that we're the only place in the world where we need to post heavily armed guards at elementary schools?

American exceptionalism!

382 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:29:35am

The 2nd Amendment presents an challenge to us. We must decide where exactly that fine line is between rights and responsibility (freedom and regulation).

Regardless of our personal feelings on the issue, there it is.

383 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:30:56am

re: #377 Lidane

The wingnut head explosions from a proposal like that would be both hilarious and scary in equal measure.

I know, it would be worth it just for that...not that any such bill would get anywhere.

384 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:32:40am

re: #382 Holidays are Family Fun Time

The 2nd Amendment presents an challenge to us. We must decide where exactly that fine line is between rights and responsibility (freedom and regulation).

Regardless of our personal feelings on the issue, there it is.

When it comes to guns and Free Trade, endless rights and no regulations. When it comes to any form of having fun that does not affect anyone except to upset their Biblical sensibilities, then endless regulations and no rights.

385 Kronocide  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:34:40am

re: #358 Charles Johnson

I don't see how better firearms training is going to prevent a single gun homicide.

Not to mention:

Man pulls gun over bumper sticker fight

Police say armed Colorado mom confronted teens who were bullying her daughter

Man shot at Florida pizza restaurant for complaining about service

None of these seem like 'training issues.' After reading the right wing cesspools of intellect called 'blogs' for years, its apparent that there is a huge cache of rage filled jackasses looking for a reason to pull a weapon and fire.

More guns? More of this shit. Less safe.

386 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:34:44am
387 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:35:43am

So do gun people wake up in the morning and start their day by fondling their guns?

//

388 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:36:04am

NYC is heading for a record low murder rate this year. Bloomberg and NYPD Chief Ray Kelly are crowing about the achievement.

And they let you know it too in numbers you can understand:

With the decrease in murder, New York’s murder rate has fallen to 3.8 homicides per 100,000 residents. New York City has a far lower murder rate than other major American cities. For example:

· If New York City had the same murder rate as Washington DC, New York City would have a total of 1,100 murdered this year.
· If New York City had Chicago’s murder rate, New York City would have a total of more than 1,400 murders this year.
· If New York City had Philadelphia’s murder rate, New York City would have a total of more than 1,700 murders this year.
· If New York City had Baltimore’s murder rate, New York City would have a total of more than 2,870 murders this year.
· If New York City had Detroit’s murder rate, New York City would have a total of nearly 4,400 murders this year.

Yet, all is not well since there's much work to be done and of the 414 homicides, 237 were by firearms, which is 61 fewer gun related murders than last year, a decrease of 20 percent. In 2001, there were 371 gun related murders, 36 percent more than this year."

389 efuseakay  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:36:06am

We need armed guards at all police stations across the country too.

[Link: abclocal.go.com...]

390 Lidane  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:36:41am
391 dragonfire1981  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:37:08am

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

You do realize that the "Canadian running down America" is rather trite, eh?

I where you are coming from this but I am a legal permanent resident in the U.S. and have lived here for over 4 years now.

Having experience with both governments, I can say the U.S. government is by far the less competent, more polarized, more dysfunctional of the two.

392 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:41:59am

re: #391 dragonfire1981

I where you are coming from this but I am a legal permanent resident in the U.S. and have lived here for over 4 years now.

Having experience with both governments, I can say the U.S. government is by far the less competent, more polarized, more dysfunctional of the two.

Cool, so you can now join the ranks of "Americans running down who Middle Eastern countries elect as their leaders". That's not trite, it is the American Way. We are the only ones allowed to comment or criticize other countries of the world since we are exceptional and all.

393 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:42:42am

re: #391 dragonfire1981

I where you are coming from this but I am a legal permanent resident in the U.S. and have lived here for over 4 years now.

Having experience with both governments, I can say the U.S. government is by far the less competent, more polarized, more dysfunctional of the two.

Only Americans are allowed to comment on how dysfunctional our government is!

394 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:43:46am

re: #368 Gus

[Embedded content]

What the holy fuck is this shit?!

395 SidewaysQuark  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:43:46am

Climate change is a problem for sure, but part of me fears, given the limited return on costs given to solving the inevitable problem, that due attention is being taken from more impending environmental issues on which one gets more immediate and impacting returns on their efforts.

Depletion of fish stocks, pollution of potable groundwater sources, soil erosion and silt deposits, nitrate contamination of estuaries and introduction of invasive species are severe issues that come to mind.

396 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:44:17am

re: #394 Varek Raith

What the holy fuck is this shit?!

Ted Nugent and Jim Hoft.

397 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:44:20am

The biggest obstacle to firearm regulation seems to be economic.

Manufacturers have the money to LOBBY. IT is not feasible to take the legal profit away by banning --as that just creates a scarcity issue and moar people purchase moar gunz in a short time period.

How to take the profit out, therefore causing the manufactures to produce fewer firearms?

Also, I am actually less concerned about the number of legal firearms and more concerned that they are concentrated in the hands of a relatively small percentage of citizens.

I'm not aware of any statistics regarding the demographics of illegal firearms.

I have a feeling that there are a number of otherwise law-abiding citizens who have firearms that are "technically" illegal. That firearm laws are regarded by people as some regard speed limit signs, is disturbing.

398 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:45:02am

re: #393 aagcobb

Only Americans are allowed to comment on how dysfunctional our government is!

Not to mention how dysfunctional all others are too!!!

399 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:45:36am

re: #394 Varek Raith

What the holy fuck is this shit?!

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Some crazy Freeper.

400 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:46:56am

re: #399 Gus

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Some crazy Freeper.

Fixed. Crazy Freeper is redundant. :D

401 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:48:12am

New Video of Fatal Shooting at West Bank Checkpoint Shows Officer’s Final Shot

On Wednesday, a correspondent for Israel’s Channel 10 uploaded what appears to be unedited video of the encounter at the checkpoint to his personal YouTube channel. According to the correspondent, Roy Sharon, the security-camera footage, which includes 19 seconds omitted from the edit posted on an Israeli military channel last week, was “raw material provided by the I.D.F. Spokesperson’s unit.”

The longer version displays a time stamp indicating that it was recorded on Dec. 12, from 8:09 p.m. to 8:10 p.m. The unedited recording includes about 14 seconds that was cut from the middle of the version released by the military last week and another five seconds that was trimmed from the end of the encounter.

The newly released video of the end of the incident appears to show that the Israeli officer fired at least three shots at the Palestinian boy, Muhammad al-Salameh, after he had already retreated from the officer he had been fighting with when the first shot was fired. The officer’s final shot, which was omitted entirely from the military’s edited version, looks to have been fired from some distance, after the boy had doubled over, perhaps from the impact of the earlier shots. The boy was not close to any of the Israeli officers visible in the footage.

The creeps at Mondowiess seem to think the new video somehow vindicates the attacker. The NYT coverage isn't very good either but I think the video speaks for itself.

402 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:50:37am

I have to be productive.

Have a great afternoon all!

403 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:52:43am

re: #401 Killgore Trout

New Video of Fatal Shooting at West Bank Checkpoint Shows Officer’s Final Shot

The creeps at Mondowiess seem to think the new video somehow vindicates the attacker. The NYT coverage isn't very good either but I think the video speaks for itself.

So true. Israeli police, like American police, never make mistakes. Anyone that criticizes Israeli police is also lumped in with Mondowiess.

404 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:53:58am

re: #403 Gus

So true. Israeli police, like American police, never make mistakes. Anyone that criticizes Israeli police is also lumped in with Mondowiess.

It wasn't a mistake. It was an appropriate response to an attack.

405 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:57:39am

re: #404 Killgore Trout

It wasn't a mistake. It was an appropriate response to an attack.

Sure. But people have every right to be skeptical in any of these situations and not just accept the position from authority. That's what free men do. If you don't like how the New York Times covers it than you are free to read something else.

406 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:58:24am

re: #403 Gus

So true. Israeli police, like American police, never make mistakes. Anyone that criticizes Israeli police is also lumped in with Mondowiess.

It is also another failed attempt to manufacture anti-Israeli propaganda. The kid committed suicide by soldier by instigating an attack that would almost certainly get him killed. He had no chance of defeating the soldiers.

407 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 10:59:09am

re: #403 Gus

So true. Israeli police, like American police, never make mistakes. Anyone that criticizes Israeli police is also lumped in with Mondowiess.

Gus, video can't tell what the officer might have been brief on. He might have seen a motion made as reaching for a detonator. Suicide bombers have sometimes tried to fight their way past security before blowing themselves up, and he might have feared he was dealing with such a case.

Israeli police have to face threats that few American police will ever see. Even in cases of mass murderers here, the killer is very seldom wired to blow. But with Islamist terrorists, this is often the case.

408 Stanghazi  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:01:36am

Working today is a form of torture.

409 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:02:06am

re: #406 Killgore Trout

It is also another failed attempt to manufacture anti-Israeli propaganda. The kid committed suicide by soldier by instigating an attack that would almost certainly get him killed. He had no chance of defeating the soldiers.

OK, thanks.

410 Gus  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:02:12am

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

411 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:04:55am

re: #407 Dark_Falcon

Gus, video can't tell what the officer might have been brief on. He might have seen a motion made as reaching for a detonator. Suicide bombers have sometimes tried to fight their way past security before blowing themselves up, and he might have feared he was dealing with such a case.

Israeli police have to face threats that few American police will ever see. Even in cases of mass murderers here, the killer is very seldom wired to blow. But with Islamist terrorists, this is often the case.

The kid pulled a toy gun. What a sad waste of a life.

412 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:06:10am

Israel seems to be the only nation the NRA likes to refer to when comparing America with other nations' approach to guns.

But then again, to the NRA the parallels are so clear: we, as God's Own Nation, beleaguered by Islamist enemies from all sides who understand only the threat of superior firepower.

413 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:07:47am

re: #408 Stanghazi

Working today is a form of torture.

My boss chased us all out at 12:30. :)

414 rwdflynavy  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:09:06am

re: #412 Sol Berdinowitz

Israel seems to be the only nation the NRA likes to refer to when comparing America with other nations' approach to guns.

But then again, to the NRA the parallels are so clear: we, as God's Own Nation, beleaguered by Islamist enemies from all sides who understand only the threat of superior firepower.

Switzerland is another popular example.

415 Lidane  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:10:34am

Some light end-of-year reading:

2012 in Quotes: Obama Derangement Syndrome

416 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:11:21am

re: #412 Sol Berdinowitz

Israel seems to be the only nation the NRA likes to refer to when comparing America with other nations' approach to guns.

But then again, to the NRA the parallels are so clear: we, as God's Own Nation, beleaguered by Islamist enemies from all sides who understand only the threat of superior firepower.

Israel is way down on the list
Gun homicides and gun ownership by country
Percentage of gun ownership is way below France, Germany and Finland.

417 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:11:52am

re: #414 rwdflynavy

And that's despite the fact that Israeli gun control laws are pretty strict about who can carry and where, and strict rules for carrying firearms for IDF on and off- duty. It's far more strict than anything the NRA would ever allow in the US.

418 sattv4u2  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:18:58am

re: #414 rwdflynavy

Switzerland is another popular example.

I love their rolls!!
Image: HK_Food_Swiss_Roll_Saint_Honore_Cake.JPG
/

419 dragonfire1981  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:20:49am

Baltimore Trolley business owner to shut down because he doesn't want to do business with gay couples

An Annapolis company whose old-fashioned trolleys are iconic in the city's wedding scene has abandoned the nuptial industry rather than serve same-sex couples.

The owner of Discover Annapolis Tours said he decided to walk away from $50,000 in annual revenue instead of compromising his Christian convictions when same-sex marriages become legal in Maryland in less than a week. And he has urged prospective clients to lobby state lawmakers for a religious exemption for wedding vendors.

Then there's this later in the same article:

He [the owner] did admit to sending an email to a potential straight client that read: ”we used to do weddings until recently. But we’re a Christian-owned business, and we are not able to lend support to gay marriages. And as a public accommodation, we cannot discriminate between gay or straight couples, so we had to stop doing all wedding transportation.”
The man who’d wanted to hire the company for his heterosexual wedding replied: ”It is your right to run your business any way you see fit, but let’s be honest here, you drive a trolley up and down a street. Not exactly God’s work.”

420 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:27:09am

I have discovered another Twitter feed that is even more insane than @BryanJFischer.

421 SidewaysQuark  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:27:48am

re: #419 dragonfire1981

Baltimore Trolley business owner to shut down because he doesn't want to do business with gay couples

Then there's this later in the same article:

Well, if driving paying customers down the street (whether you like them or not) isn't an option for you, perhaps driving a trolley isn't the job for you.

422 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:28:53am

re: #411 Killgore Trout

The kid pulled a toy gun. What a sad waste of a life.

That will get you killed here, too. In a situation like that, a police officer or armed citizen isn't going to be able to know that the gun isn't real and they cannot afford to wait to find out. They have to treat as real, hence resort to deadly force in such a case is justified.

423 Lidane  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:29:12am

re: #420 Vicious Babushka

I have discovered another Twitter feed that is even more insane than @BryanJFischer.

Just skimming his first few posts made me feel dumber. Oy.

424 dragonfire1981  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:29:58am

re: #420 Vicious Babushka

I have discovered another Twitter feed that is even more insane than @BryanJFischer.

Why he seems like such an open minded guy!

425 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:31:02am

Chuck Hagel gets an unhelpful endorsement.
Patrick Buchanan: Why The War Party Fears Hagel

426 Ghost of Tom Joad  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:36:29am

re: #425 Killgore Trout

Chuck Hagel gets an unhelpful endorsement.
Patrick Buchanan: Why The War Party Fears Hagel

That was really Buchanan? Did he get his arteries cleaned out recently to get the oxygen flowing to his brain?

427 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:37:13am

re: #426 Ghost of Tom Joad

That was really Buchanan? Did he get his arteries cleaned out recently to get the oxygen flowing to his brain?

Yup, that's really Paleo-Pat.

428 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:40:21am

re: #427 Killgore Trout

Yup, that's really Paleo-Pat.

You're right about his endorsement being unhelpful: Anyone Buchanan likes is automatically questionable (at best) in my eyes.

429 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:43:17am

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

You're right about his endorsement being unhelpful: Anyone Buchanan likes is automatically questionable (at best) in my eyes.

I think that's why the Hagel nomination is going to be difficult. His past statements are questionable but unfortunately attract support from those who want to stick it to the all powerful Jewish Lobby.

430 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 11:59:14am

re: #352 jaunte

I heard this guy on the news. This is the twelfth annual class just like this.

431 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:00:09pm

re: #414 rwdflynavy

Switzerland is another popular example.

One which has almost no parallells with American gun ownership...

432 lostlakehiker  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 7:18:31pm

re: #135 Mich-again

Well what about where the river drains into the Gulf. If you can't add to the level in the river than try to hold what is there in.

Won't work. Louisiana is very flat there at the bottom. You'd need a levee all the way around the perimeter. There's no chokepoint. And if you want some depth to your lake, the levee would have to be that high, pretty much all the way around the perimeter. And then you'd have to worry about a leak or sabotage. One man with a backhoe and an evening? Or a fertilizer bomb and some know-how? How can you guard against that 7/24/365 on a large perimeter?


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Dark_Falcon
Presenting the Tracking Point AR series of rifles
Tracking Point has finally gotten their system to work with the AR-10 and AR-15 platforms. Now available in 5.56x45mm, 7.62x51mm and 300 AAC Blackout (a longer ranged 5.56 derivative). Hopefully, the Army and Marines can find the money for some of these, for these rifles will give our designated marksmen a real advantage in combat. They are also available for civilian sale, though at ...

4 days, 15 hours ago
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MichaelJ
2014 Drug Aware Margaret River Pro - ASP
More: 2014 Drug Aware Margaret River Pro - ASP Round 5 is going to be all about getting barreled. This is going to be good.

6 days, 15 hours ago
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 Frank says:

I have a message to deliver to the cute people of the world...if you're cute, or maybe you're beautiful...there's MORE OF US UGLY MOTHERF*CKERS OUT THERE! So watch out.