Jump to bottom

1179 comments
1 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:24:16pm

Killer pigs. From space!

2 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:24:50pm

Evening, Lizards!
Flying pigs, on the global warming...
;)

3 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:27:53pm
Youtube Video
4 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:28:55pm
Youtube Video
5 Locker  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:29:01pm

Newbie question of the night.

Why do you up or down ding someone?

Not really fair of me to ask without answering so I'll start. I haven't done a ton of this but so far it breaks down like this.

Up
Funny or clever
Interesting insight
Honest opinions
True personal experience

Down
Personal attack
Name calling
Hate type of stuff

6 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:29:24pm
Youtube Video
7 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:29:27pm

re: #2 Floral Giraffe

They're discussing global warming downstairs. Maybe it will move up here. Freetoken usually has a good link or two to read.

8 Locker  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:29:42pm

re: #5 Locker

Someone's post, not the person, sorry.

9 Silvergirl  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:29:47pm

We kill them right back. Murdering swine.

10 Gus  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:29:53pm

More people have died from being rejected by their insurance companies than by so called "death panels."

More people have also died due to biological causes than chemical.

11 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:30:17pm

But I enter the habitat of sharks often and the habitat of pigs rarely, so my risk evaluation has to be different than someone who does not.

12 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:30:25pm

re: #5 Locker

Everyone has their own criteria.

13 Locker  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:32:11pm

re: #12 Sharmuta

I'm aware of that, which is why I'm asking what your criteria is on the issue. Care to share?

14 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:32:28pm

re: #5 Locker

Newbie question of the night.

Why do you up or down ding someone?

Not really fair of me to ask without answering so I'll start. I haven't done a ton of this but so far it breaks down like this.

Up
Funny or clever
Interesting insight
Honest opinions
True personal experience
Noam says something

Down
Personal attack
Name calling
Hate type of stuff
Deliberate, belligerent taunts at Charles

You missed a couple.

15 Gus  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:33:12pm

re: #11 ArchangelMichael

But I enter the habitat of sharks often and the habitat of pigs rarely, so my risk evaluation has to be different than someone who does not.

Frequency of exposure. :)

16 zombie  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:33:30pm

A few thoughts about scientists "lying" and "being wrong":

As anyone who has read Thomas Kuhn's The Structures of Scientific Revolutions knows, each scientific field goes through "paradigm shifts" that completely rewrite the rules and assumptions upon which all observations and data are based. Scientists and theories which up until the time of the revolution were universally assumed to be "right" were suddenly all "wrong." Including all the great scientists of history. All of them, almost without exception, were "wrong" in reference to our modern understanding of things. Newton and Galileo were totally "wrong" about gravitation once the Einsteinian theory of space-time replaced Newtonian/Euclidian physics. All the biologists in history were suddenly retroactively "wrong" once Darwin and Mendel unlocked the mysteries of life. All the chemists who ever lived prior to the 20th century were rendered "wrong" as atomic theory was recognized as the correct paradigm.

Anyone who has studied scientific history knows that all the stuff we now think to be incontrovertibly correct will eventually be overturned by a paradigm shift that will make everything that came before look foolish. Such shift are a rare occurrence -- once every couple centuries is the normal pace -- but they simply don't stop coming. Everything we think we know will be in the garbage can of history eventually.

That said, most scientists alive today are doing "the best they can" within the frameworks of our current paradigms. Geniuses who change the course of history are extremely rare; so most modern scientists are basically just bean counters, not theoretical revolutionaries. They plod along in tiny sub-fields doing studies that likely aren't going to change anyone's view of anything. Just adding, if they're lucky, a tiny grain of data to the enormous sand dune of knowledge.

But in recent decades there has been a new spectre in the world of science: politics. It affects all sides of the spectrum. Anyone who disagrees with the majority is presumed to either be lying or is accused of being funded by nefarious groups of some sort or another or has some ideological bias they're trying to promulgate by fudging facts. And the outsiders inevitably accuse the insiders of the same malfeasances. Suddenly every single scienctist is a neo-Lysenkoist.

It's gotten to the point where the layperson can not sort out the false accusations from the true scandals, and so many charges are flying left-to-right and right-to-left that one doesn't know what to think any more.

To make things worse: Even if someone does get funded from politcally motivated groups, and even if one does have a bias, doesn't mean that person is inherently wrong. One person could be funded by Exxon and another by Soros, one could be a grant-chaser, another a denialist, but their data could still be totally valid.

How is the average American expected to sort this all out? The political white noise machine is drowning out any semblance of clarity, and it's gotten to the unfortunate point that one chooses which side one is on mostly for political reasons, not because one has accurately assessed the data. Because the data is simply too complicated, too specialized, and too politicized to assess.

Science used to be a discussion. Now it's a room full of people with their fingers in their ears saying "Lalalalalala I can't hear you!"

17 Silvergirl  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:34:25pm

re: #5 Locker

Newbie question of the night.

Why do you up or down ding someone?

Not really fair of me to ask without answering so I'll start. I haven't done a ton of this but so far it breaks down like this.

Up
Funny or clever
Interesting insight
Honest opinions
True personal experience

Down
Personal attack
Name calling
Hate type of stuff

If you're in a hurry or feeling lazy, a ding will do instead of a reply. Otherwise, your lists seem accurate enough for what many Lizards use the dingers for.

18 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:38:31pm

Hey, Charles. Far be it from me to tell you how to program your blog, but how about a similar refresh mechanism for the comment ratings as you do for the spinoffs? If one rates a comment, or checks to see who rated it, they all update?

19 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:39:13pm

re: #14 Noam Sayin'

Upding worthy, funny!

20 Kragar  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:40:39pm

Going to see District 9 tomorrow, anyone else going?

21 zombie  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:42:09pm

re: #5 Locker

Newbie question of the night.

Why do you up or down ding someone?

Not really fair of me to ask without answering so I'll start. I haven't done a ton of this but so far it breaks down like this.

Up
Funny or clever
Interesting insight
Honest opinions
True personal experience

Down
Personal attack
Name calling
Hate type of stuff

re: #12 Sharmuta

Everyone has their own criteria.

re: #14 Noam Sayin'

You missed a couple.

You missed more than a couple. Everybody has their own criteria all right; some are very personalized to each person, reasons the outside world will never know. One major cateogory you left out is: variations on the theme of social positioning. People upding/downding so as to identify with a social group, or to please a spectator or group of spectators; or simply because their friends did so; or to try to earn someone's respect; and so on.

Definitely fodder for a PhD in sociology.

22 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:42:22pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope. Got a full day of scooterin' ahead of me tomorrow.

All weekend, in fact.

23 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:43:22pm

Thanks Sharm for telling me the other thread is dead

24 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:43:26pm

re: #21 zombie

Definitely fodder for a PhD in sociology.

Sociology: Study of idiots, by idiots, taught to idiots.

(hat-tip iDub)

25 zombie  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:43:53pm

re: #24 ArchangelMichael

Sociology: Study of idiots, by idiots, taught to idiots.

(hat-tip iDub)

Idiots are people too!

26 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:44:33pm

I am actually going to have to get some sleep soon though. I have a big day tomorrow. Lots and lots of work...

I'm trying to get a paper out that I hope might make a PRL or at lest a phys rev.

27 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:45:00pm

re: #22 Noam Sayin'

Happy Scootering! That looks like a fun event!

28 Silvergirl  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:45:41pm

So because of this new spectre looming over science--politics--the sudden appearance of a genius may not be imminent? That might-have-been-a-genius is instead doomed to bean counting? I've never looked at it this way, but I think you're onto something.

29 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:45:50pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I want to see that. I hope it's good. I'm planning on seeing it Sat night.

30 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:45:57pm

Any Noofies in da hauz?
Havin A Time

Youtube Video
31 Locker  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:46:04pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Going to see District 9 tomorrow, anyone else going?

I just might do that and I really don't enjoy going to the movie theater. On the other hand this one looks really good.

32 ladycatnip  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:46:26pm

#16 zombie

How is the average American expected to sort this all out? The political white noise machine is drowning out any semblance of clarity, and it's gotten to the unfortunate point that one chooses which side one is on mostly for political reasons, not because one has accurately assessed the data. Because the data is simply too complicated, too specialized, and too politicized to assess.

Science used to be a discussion. Now it's a room full of people with their fingers in their ears saying "Lalalalalala I can't hear you!"

Thank you for that - absolutely, brilliantly spot on. I'm sick and tired of politics muddying the waters of science. I'd like to see us hold politics to the same standard we hold faith - stay out of science!

Excellent post.

33 pat  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:47:17pm

re: #16 zombie

Yep

34 Kragar  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:47:18pm

re: #29 LudwigVanQuixote

I want to see that. I hope it's good. I'm planning on seeing it Sat night.

Everything I've seen says its excellent. They're calling it one of the best SciFi movies in the last 20 years, up there with Blade Runner and the 1st Terminator.

35 tradewind  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:47:51pm

re: #16 zombie

/What you said/... eggcellent, zombie.
Goodnight, ya'll.

36 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:48:25pm

re: #27 Floral Giraffe

Had a ball tonight, and we didn't even get naked this time (can't tell that full story). Last year, we set a North American record for most scooters on a single ride. It may have since been broken. We're not sure.

37 Sharmuta  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:49:20pm

re: #16 zombie

Science used to be a discussion. Now it's a room full of people with their fingers in their ears saying "Lalalalalala I can't hear you!"

I disagree. I don't believe most scientists behave in this manner.

38 Gus  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:50:04pm

re: #16 zombie

Science used to be a "discussion?" You mean like:

Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District

Scopes v. State

39 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:50:10pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I believe the term is, 'hizzouse.'

40 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:50:37pm

re: #16 zombie

Firt off that was really well written, but paradigm shifts are not always as disruptive as you think. Particularly in physics.

QM did not destroy classical E&M or Newton, it only looked at a different place.

Einstein did not destroy Newton. Einstein's gravity contains Newtons. Newton was perfectly correct for where he was looking - in the sense that Newton had no reason to think that Gravity could affect space-time - and unless you have a lot of gravity, you can not see the effect.

Once something is a theory, it means that it has made multiple correct predictions that were observed to be so. Any new theory has to explain the same things we already saw happen in the previous theory.

41 Locker  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:51:04pm

re: #39 Noam Sayin'

I believe the term is, 'hizzouse.'

Come on Mr. Slave, we've gotta get back to our flippity floppity floop.

42 Silvergirl  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:52:41pm

re: #5 Locker

If you ask a question or make a comment and someone replies to you, an upding is your way of saying thanks for noticing me. Someone just opened up their folding chair and sat down next to you for a second before moving on, so it's a smile and nod.

43 Locker  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:54:12pm

re: #42 Silvergirl

Yes ma'am I really like that one and will endeavor to comply.

44 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:54:27pm

re: #41 Locker

Come on Mr. Slave, we've gotta get back to our flippity floppity floop.

The Man® always stealing the lingo.

45 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:54:41pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Science used to be a "discussion?" You mean like:

Ahhh, that's where we are forced to talk to creationist morons. That's different. That is a duel between faith and reason. Actual scientist work these things out.

For instance, the myth of the lone scientist suddenly overturning everything that his or her lesser gifted colleagues believed is not quite the way it happens. When QM first came out, there was much debate. But the evidence kept accumulating.

The lone scientist who held out skeptic the longest and in the most frustratingly clever fashions was Einstein. This had two effects.

1. It made QM stronger, because if Albert Einstein is trying his level best to shoot you down, then you really better have you "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed.

2. Even Einstein could be wrong.

46 Kragar  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:55:30pm

District 9 Red Band Clip: Back Off

Youtube Video
47 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:55:31pm

re: #36 Noam Sayin'

LOL!
May you NOT get road burns where it'd hurt the most!
Lizards are such an interesting group!
Have fun!

48 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:55:59pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Having a time?

49 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:57:35pm

re: #48 Floral Giraffe

The Legend of Donnie Dumphy

Youtube Video

"It's like an angel pissing in your ears"

50 Silvergirl  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:58:16pm

re: #32 ladycatnip

#16 zombie

Thank you for that - absolutely, brilliantly spot on. I'm sick and tired of politics muddying the waters of science. I'd like to see us hold politics to the same standard we hold faith - stay out of science!

Excellent post.

Politics can throw a wet blanket on a good party too. We've all seen it happen.

51 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Aug 13, 2009 11:59:50pm

I'm out of beer, which means it's bed-time.

Seeya, lizards...

52 Gus  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:00:43am

re: #45 LudwigVanQuixote

Ahhh, that's where we are forced to talk to creationist morons. That's different. That is a duel between faith and reason. Actual scientist work these things out.

For instance, the myth of the lone scientist suddenly overturning everything that his or her lesser gifted colleagues believed is not quite the way it happens. When QM first came out, there was much debate. But the evidence kept accumulating.

The lone scientist who held out skeptic the longest and in the most frustratingly clever fashions was Einstein. This had two effects.

1. It made QM stronger, because if Albert Einstein is trying his level best to shoot you down, then you really better have you "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed.

2. Even Einstein could be wrong.

Yes, but I think that's the crux of the problem: the duel between faith and reason. At least if one sees the interaction between the public and science. It's become rather prominent in recent months.

I see science as working independently from the public as it should. There is no reason that the populace should understand since they are incapable of understanding since their prominent focus is with things regarding US magazine or misguided summaries from the internet.

53 SixDegrees  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:03:58am

re: #37 Sharmuta

I disagree. I don't believe most scientists behave in this manner.

Correct. This is a more apt description of the public's reaction to science than of the scientific community itself.

54 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:05:37am

re: #40 LudwigVanQuixote

Firt off that was really well written, but paradigm shifts are not always as disruptive as you think. Particularly in physics.

QM did not destroy classical E&M or Newton, it only looked at a different place.

Einstein did not destroy Newton. Einstein's gravity contains Newtons. Newton was perfectly correct for where he was looking - in the sense that Newton had no reason to think that Gravity could affect space-time - and unless you have a lot of gravity, you can not see the effect.

Once something is a theory, it means that it has made multiple correct predictions that were observed to be so. Any new theory has to explain the same things we already saw happen in the previous theory.

Newton seemed to be correct within the threshhold of what we could measure in that era; but once more accurate measurements could be taken, it turns out Newton's equations were only a very special case of a more generalized theory; so in that sense he was "wrong", especially when it came to predicting that exact orbits of the planets. An apple falling off a tree to the ground is only traveling a few miles per hour, and the difference between the Newtonian calculation and the Einsteinian calculation is so miniscule as to be non-measurable. But the path of Mercury (as a famous example) is so influenced by relativistic effects that the Newtonian calculation for its orbit is most definitively "wrong" in the sense that it won't give the correct answer. Einstein's calculations would (and did).

What makes revolutions, it seems, are preciser and preciser measurement, which often reveal the flaws in the previous paradigms, which are realized to be approximations or special cases once we see the data at finer resolution.

I didn't meant on cast aspersions on all scientists -- Newton was perhaps the greatest genius who ever lived -- only to point out that "wrongness" and "rightness" are highly dependent on who is doing the judging at what point in history. Aristotle for example was much more "right" than any of his contemporaries, but after the intervening 2,500 years we now say that he was "wrong" about everything, strictly speaking.

55 pat  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:07:55am

Newton=cannon fire.
Einstein=nuclear bomb

56 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:09:04am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

I think it's sad when people are "passing the time" instead of living it to the fullest. Donny is new to me...

57 ladycatnip  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:09:16am

#45 LudwigVanQuixote

The lone scientist who held out skeptic the longest and in the most frustratingly clever fashions was Einstein. This had two effects.

1. It made QM stronger, because if Albert Einstein is trying his level best to shoot you down, then you really better have you "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed.

2. Even Einstein could be wrong.

That's the beauty of science without politics getting involved.

58 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:09:43am

re: #52 Gus 802

Yes, but I think that's the crux of the problem: the duel between faith and reason. At least if one sees the interaction between the public and science. It's become rather prominent in recent months.

I see science as working independently from the public as it should. There is no reason that the populace should understand since they are incapable of understanding since their prominent focus is with things regarding US magazine or misguided summaries from the internet.

Yes, but there are somethings that the public needs to understand if things will get better.

Believe me, I would love a world run only by people who passed some sort of magical goodness test and were also scientist, doctors, engineers or other types with real expertise in a discipline that requires actually understanding complicated things.

We do not however have the Greek Ideal of philosopher kings.

We have a republic. And it is also the job of scientists to try to reach out and explain - however painful it may be- wtf is going on for the greater good.

The worst place that the scientific community has failed is in this endeavor.

If we were better at this "part of the job" there would not be a creationist debate any more, average people would know basic math - and by basic math I mean calculus and people would get how science actually works well enough to know what is settled and what is still open.

Unfortunately, it is a tough job. Some of us are much better than others at it.

I am very popular with my students and I do well in front of a class-room, but Coracle for instance is a much more patient person when it comes to dealing with attacks from willfully blind types.

59 redc1c4  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:11:11am

FRUITCUP!!!

and legal jargon... just finished this week's assignment.

class in a few hours, another quiz, and then on to the next module.

joy. %-P

60 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:12:34am

re: #59 redc1c4

BAH! You made my tummy rumble for fruitcup & it's too early.
Congratulations on finishing the assignment!
Rat update?

61 SixDegrees  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:12:58am

re: #54 zombie

Newton seemed to be correct within the threshhold of what we could measure in that era; but once more accurate measurements could be taken, it turns out Newton's equations were only a very special case of a more generalized theory; so in that sense he was "wrong", especially when it came to predicting that exact orbits of the planets. An apple falling off a tree to the ground is only traveling a few miles per hour, and the difference between the Newtonian calculation and the Einsteinian calculation is so miniscule as to be non-measurable. But the path of Mercury (as a famous example) is so influenced by relativistic effects that the Newtonian calculation for its orbit is most definitively "wrong" in the sense that it won't give the correct answer. Einstein's calculations would (and did).

What makes revolutions, it seems, are preciser and preciser measurement, which often reveal the flaws in the previous paradigms, which are realized to be approximations or special cases once we see the data at finer resolution.

I didn't meant on cast aspersions on all scientists -- Newton was perhaps the greatest genius who ever lived -- only to point out that "wrongness" and "rightness" are highly dependent on who is doing the judging at what point in history. Aristotle for example was much more "right" than any of his contemporaries, but after the intervening 2,500 years we now say that he was "wrong" about everything, strictly speaking.

Newton wasn't wrong; he provided a very good, though approximate, answer. Newtonian mechanics is still taught in university physics classes today, and is plenty good enough to be used, for example, for all spacecraft travel, even to the far reaches of the solar system. It is excruciatingly accurate, capable of predicting the trajectory of a spacecraft billions of kilometers distant to within meters, less than the uncertainties in it's positional measurements. And it is more than accurate enough for all events commonly encountered on earth with the exception of those taking place in a particle accelerator or when considering the fantastic precision of atomic clocks. No one ever applies relativistic theory in the day to day world; it's an improvement, to be sure, but the improvement over Newton is vanishingly small.

62 TheMatrix31  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:13:50am

Just had white castle for the first time...DISGUSTING!

63 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:16:54am

re: #58 LudwigVanQuixote

If we were better at this "part of the job" there would not be a creationist debate any more, average people would know basic math - and by basic math I mean calculus

Well, that counts me out. They lost me in trig. (I had the worst trig teacher in the history of mathematics.) After that, everything based on trig was gibberish to me.

Luckily, I endured some kind of experimental "new math" curriculum in elementary school, and they were teaching us set theory and topology and number theory before we could multiply and divide properly. So I have a kind of oddball math knowledge where I understand some advance concepts more than I do some basic ones. I grok Georg Cantor, but calculus is beyond my ken. Strange.

64 redc1c4  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:19:17am

re: #60 Floral Giraffe

BAH! You made my tummy rumble for fruitcup & it's too early.
Congratulations on finishing the assignment!
Rat update?

none sighted tonight, and i'm for bed shortly... been potting them on a fairly regular basis though. got 3 one night last week, and all before 10PM or so...

65 redc1c4  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:19:31am

re: #62 TheMatrix31

Just had white castle for the first time...DISGUSTING!

where?

66 fire at night  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:20:11am

ORM, or operational risk management to non-military folks. Just a fancy way of saying, "be aware of your surroundings."

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:21:20am

re: #13 Locker

I'm aware of that, which is why I'm asking what your criteria is on the issue. Care to share?

Up:

I agree.
I don't agree, but it's well said.
Made me smile.
I like the person, and they said something kind of cool.

Down: (Rare, but usually because):

Someone is being a jerk.
Personal attacks.
Repeating discredited crap like they were the first person to bring it up.
Racism.
General meanness.

68 TheMatrix31  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:21:26am

re: #65 redc1c4

where?

In STL...in the ghetto. Wow.

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:22:57am

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

Up:

I agree.
I don't agree, but it's well said.
Made me smile.
I like the person, and they said something kind of cool.

Down: (Rare, but usually because):

Someone is being a jerk.
Personal attacks.
Repeating discredited crap like they were the first person to bring it up.
Racism.
General meanness.

Oh, also, if someone responds directly to my comment, I'll usually ding them on principle for talking to me.

70 redc1c4  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:23:29am

re: #68 TheMatrix31

In STL...in the ghetto. Wow.

what the hello are you doing Missouri?

71 fire at night  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:23:40am

I'm a shark!! (nsfl)

72 redc1c4  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:24:47am

ding rule #1: puns always get updinged!

73 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:27:07am

re: #54 zombie

Newton seemed to be correct within the threshhold of what we could measure in that era; but once more accurate measurements could be taken, it turns out Newton's equations were only a very special case of a more generalized theory; so in that sense he was "wrong"...

Yes and no. You are correct about relativistic effects being impossible to observe on Newtonian scales. However, there are two really important points. First, a minor one, the speed of the apple is a special relativity argument, and the precession of mercury is a general relativity argument.

Now, in the case of special relativity, the factor by which relative speed is an issue in different reference frames is called gamma.

gamma is 1/(1-(v^2/c^2))^1/2 where v is the relative velocity and c is 3.0X10^8 m/s. So, for apple speeds say a few m/s just plug in the numbers and see just how fabulously small a factor away from 1 you will get. The bottom line is that you do not need anything more than Newton for most things. Also gamma being close to 1 is another way of saying that you are using Newton's equations - because that is all that is left. The factors for GR are even smaller. You need to have a huge gravitational field - like you are right next to a star to see even the tiniest effect.

Now. As to your argument about getting more and more precise, that is not how science always gets driven. In fact, the really big discoveries actually happen from filling in really big gaps in understanding. For example, QM was born when E&M did not explain either black body or cavity radiation properly. The experiments just did something radically different from what was expected. It was so bad it was called the "ultraviolet catastrophe." It took multiple lines of evidence and reasoning to construct QM. In the early 1900's we just knew that there had to be something else interesting going on. We had no idea what.

Special relativity was born from two things.

1. People really expected that the speed of light would change in different reference frames and no matter how hard they looked, they could never see it.

2. Einstein at age 12 was bothered by an aspect of Maxwell's equations that made no sense to him. It bugged him until he was a young man in that Swiss patent office. The way a light wave works is that a changing electric field leapfrogs with a changing magnetic field. The one creates the other and propagates the wave. Einstein was bugged by the fact that this happens for changing fields and wondered what would happen if you ran along next to a light wave. You would see a constant field - ie not changing, but then you could not have a wave. It turns out that special relativity answers that - and that is how Einstein came at it. It wasn't from an ever more precise instrument.

What makes revolutions, it seems, are preciser and preciser measurement, which often reveal the flaws in the previous paradigms, which are realized to be approximations or special cases once we see the data at finer resolution.

I didn't meant on cast aspersions on all scientists -- Newton was perhaps the greatest genius who ever lived -- only to point out that "wrongness" and "rightness" are highly dependent on who is doing the judging at what point in history. Aristotle for example was much more "right" than any of his contemporaries, but after the intervening 2,500 years we now say that he was "wrong" about everything, strictly speaking.

74 Picayune  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:28:02am

Ribs and shark fin soup - its whats for dinner! (Tom Selleck VO)

75 redc1c4  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:28:15am

hasta, y'all... tell LoL i was here.

L8r...

%-)

76 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:30:22am

Ohh and PIMF the last two paragraphs of my last post are zombie's and not mine. sorry.

77 TheMatrix31  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:30:24am

re: #70 redc1c4

what the hello are you doing Missouri?

Two friends and I decided we wanted to come to KC, STL, and CHI for food and baseball. The food here is literally amazing.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:33:34am

re: #77 TheMatrix31

Two friends and I decided we wanted to come to KC, STL, and CHI for food and baseball. The food here is literally amazing.

What's good there? (Talk food and you can always interest me.)

79 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:34:35am

re: #77 TheMatrix31

The steak houses in KC are amazing.

80 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:36:04am

re: #63 zombie

But that's my point. You should have had a good teacher.

I've had over 6,000 students in classes by now. I started tutoring calculus when I was twelve. I can honestly say that in all of that time I have only met three students whom I felt would just never get it.

People have different learning styles and people respond better or worse to different types of examples, but I have never met a person who writes half as well as you who couldn't do it in time.

81 TheMatrix31  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:36:22am

KCs food..was literally AMAZING. Just all bbq. Just unbelieveable. Words can't describe it.

STL is known for Italian, and I've had my mind blown. A specialty is toasted ravioli which is basically fried ravioli with a sauce. WOW.

Just all amazing. Exceeded expectations.

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:39:16am

Apparently the nutjob from the West LA Federal Building is being 'observed' in a hospital, but they've arrested him on two earlier, nonrelated, misdemeanor charges.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:40:29am

re: #81 TheMatrix31

KCs food..was literally AMAZING. Just all bbq. Just unbelieveable. Words can't describe it.

STL is known for Italian, and I've had my mind blown. A specialty is toasted ravioli which is basically fried ravioli with a sauce. WOW.

Just all amazing. Exceeded expectations.

Mmmm. Sounds good. Keep eating.

84 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:43:01am

re: #54 zombie

Just to clear confusion from my posting/editing error.

Newton seemed to be correct within the threshhold of what we could measure in that era; but once more accurate measurements could be taken, it turns out Newton's equations were only a very special case of a more generalized theory; so in that sense he was "wrong"...

Yes and no. You are correct about relativistic effects being impossible to observe on Newtonian scales. However, there are two really important points. First, a minor one, the speed of the apple is a special relativity argument, and the precession of mercury is a general relativity argument.

Now, in the case of special relativity, the factor by which relative speed is an issue in different reference frames is called gamma.

gamma is 1/(1-(v^2/c^2))^1/2 where v is the relative velocity and c is 3.0X10^8 m/s. So, for apple speeds say a few m/s just plug in the numbers and see just how fabulously small a factor away from 1 you will get. The bottom line is that you do not need anything more than Newton for most things. Also gamma being close to 1 is another way of saying that you are using Newton's equations - because that is all that is left. The factors for GR are even smaller. You need to have a huge gravitational field - like you are right next to a star to see even the tiniest effect.

Now. As to your argument about getting more and more precise, that is not how science always gets driven. In fact, the really big discoveries actually happen from filling in really big gaps in understanding. For example, QM was born when E&M did not explain either black body or cavity radiation properly. The experiments just did something radically different from what was expected. It was so bad it was called the "ultraviolet catastrophe." It took multiple lines of evidence and reasoning to construct QM. In the early 1900's we just knew that there had to be something else interesting going on. We had no idea what.

Special relativity was born from two things.

1. People really expected that the speed of light would change in different reference frames and no matter how hard they looked, they could never see it.

2. Einstein at age 12 was bothered by an aspect of Maxwell's equations that made no sense to him. It bugged him until he was a young man in that Swiss patent office. The way a light wave works is that a changing electric field leapfrogs with a changing magnetic field. The one creates the other and propagates the wave. Einstein was bugged by the fact that this happens for changing fields and wondered what would happen if you ran along next to a light wave. You would see a constant field - ie not changing, but then you could not have a wave. It turns out that special relativity answers that - and that is how Einstein came at it. It wasn't from an ever more precise instrument.

85 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:43:56am

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

People have different learning styles and people respond better or worse to different types of examples...

Definitely. My belief has been for some time that nearly anyone can understand the basic ideas behind a great deal of science and mathematics, if the attempt is made, and the teaching is right for the student.

I had a dance teacher emphasize to me once that finding the right teaching method (for dancing) was most critical, and that individuals can be classed (for the purpose of dancing) as learning by one of three different methods.

86 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:48:16am

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

Up ding for articulating (better than I did) my stance on the ding.

87 TheMatrix31  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:49:06am

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

Mmmm. Sounds good. Keep eating.

Oh, we are. Chicago is gonna be BAD too. Yikes. At least Obama will have our backs!

/

88 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:51:12am

re: #81 TheMatrix31

KCs food..was literally AMAZING. Just all bbq. Just unbelieveable. Words can't describe it.

STL is known for Italian, and I've had my mind blown. A specialty is toasted ravioli which is basically fried ravioli with a sauce. WOW.

Just all amazing. Exceeded expectations.

Arthur Bryant's in KC, by chance? I have had the pleasure and good fortune.

89 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:53:45am

re: #85 freetoken

Definitely. My belief has been for some time that nearly anyone can understand the basic ideas behind a great deal of science and mathematics, if the attempt is made, and the teaching is right for the student.

I had a dance teacher emphasize to me once that finding the right teaching method (for dancing) was most critical, and that individuals can be classed (for the purpose of dancing) as learning by one of three different methods.

Absolutely. You need time and patience to get to know your students and try to see how they think and what is blocking them. The you go by a mix of instinct and trial and error to get that block removed.

The most important thing is to never do too much for them. You have to show them the path and them cheerlead them down it. In science the biggest mistake is to just work the problem for them and say "see how it's done?" That rarely helps as a primary method. It's kind of like doing pushups to get someone else in shape.

So what you do is you sit and you show basics and give ever more in depth questions to solidify them before you go on to the next topic.

Of course getting people who are willing to teach like that is ard in a nation that values teachers slightly less than janitors.

If we gave a damn we would spend four times the money we do on our primary schools and have twice as many teachers at twice the pay and be certain we only hired the good ones. Of course then it would be a much more attractive position and you wouldn't have the Girl's field hockey coach teaching geometry - unless she also knew how to teach math.

I mean most people have no clue of the most basic things, because we teach people to memorize and not think about what was being taught.

Like here is a good one.

F=ma

You've heard of equal and opposite forces right? So the force from your feet on the floor is exactly canceled by the force from the floor on your feet.

You know this because you are not accelerating through the floor.

OK. If the forces are canceled, and they are always canceled when you are standing on the floor. How do you ever jump up?

500 Quixote points to a non physicist lizard who gets this.

90 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:57:15am

re: #86 BatGuano

Upding for being excrement from a bats rear private part!
Hi BG! *waves*

91 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:57:26am

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

But that's my point. You should have had a good teacher.

I've had over 6,000 students in classes by now. I started tutoring calculus when I was twelve. I can honestly say that in all of that time I have only met three students whom I felt would just never get it.

People have different learning styles and people respond better or worse to different types of examples, but I have never met a person who writes half as well as you who couldn't do it in time.

Well (true story) I knew someone in the math department at Stanford and once found myself at a party with people i didn't know and fell into a conversation with some random guy and because everyone was a geek we started talking about mathematics, and strangely he got really excited and interested in the conversation and talked and talked and listened and listened for over an hour. Me, I was just blabbing it seemed without getting anything specific like actual equations and stuff -- just some musing about overall trends and theories and so forth, most of which I had just absorbed osmotically over the years (never having taking a single math class after 11th grade). Eventually my friend came over and popped the bubble when he poo-pooed my math knowledge, saying to the other guy, "Oh, you don't want to talk to [zombie] because [zombie]'s not a mathematician." He then explained to me that the guy I was talking to was an absolutely world famous mathematician and the only topic he was even capable of conversing on was abstruse math.

I wandered away, but a few days later, my friend called me to say that Mr. Famous Guy had assumed I was on his level and was absolutely floored to discover that I was also not a world famous mathematician; and that he had formally invited me to apply for the Stanford math graduate program, because he felt I had something to contribute. All based on this one conversation.

Needless to say, I turned him down, since I secretly hate math. But others (not just you and this guy) have told me throughout my life that I was a "natural" for math and that it was a tragedy that I learned to hate it due to bad teachers.

92 TheMatrix31  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:02:30am

Yep. Arthur Bryants was probably my favorite...but they were all just SO amazing and SO unique. Delicious. I can't have BBQ in LA ever again.

Anyway, driving to Chicago tomm...so we gotta sleep. Good night!

93 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:03:10am

re: #89 LudwigVanQuixote

OK. If the forces are canceled, and they are always canceled when you are standing on the floor. How do you ever jump up?

500 Quixote points to a non physicist lizard who gets this.

Because you push the earth down an equivalent amount. It's just that Earth with its huge mass goes "down" only a teeny tiny bit; you with your small mass go way "up" a lot.

Then when you "fall" the earth is sucking you back down; but your mass is also sucking the earth back up that same teenty tiny bit.

it's easier to understand when you get rid of the concepts of up and down. I find it easier to turn the "diagram' sideways so that the two bodies are simply moving "away" from each other, with no point of reference being preferred.

94 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:03:49am

re: #91 zombie

Well (true story) I knew someone in the math department at Stanford and once found myself at a party with people i didn't know and fell into a conversation with some random guy and because everyone was a geek we started talking about mathematics, and strangely he got really excited and interested in the conversation and talked and talked and listened and listened for over an hour. Me, I was just blabbing it seemed without getting anything specific like actual equations and stuff -- just some musing about overall trends and theories and so forth, most of which I had just absorbed osmotically over the years (never having taking a single math class after 11th grade). Eventually my friend came over and popped the bubble when he poo-pooed my math knowledge, saying to the other guy, "Oh, you don't want to talk to [zombie] because [zombie]'s not a mathematician." He then explained to me that the guy I was talking to was an absolutely world famous mathematician and the only topic he was even capable of conversing on was abstruse math.

I wandered away, but a few days later, my friend called me to say that Mr. Famous Guy had assumed I was on his level and was absolutely floored to discover that I was also not a world famous mathematician; and that he had formally invited me to apply for the Stanford math graduate program, because he felt I had something to contribute. All based on this one conversation.

Needless to say, I turned him down, since I secretly hate math. But others (not just you and this guy) have told me throughout my life that I was a "natural" for math and that it was a tragedy that I learned to hate it due to bad teachers.

Well, you say you dig on Gregor Cantor - his work is essential to understanding the fractals I do. What got me into them was a sense of beauty.

[Link: magnusti78.deviantart.com...]

[Link: Jeddaka.deviantart.com...]

[Link: DigitalPainters.deviantart.com...]

It is one thing to admire things like this. It is another to understand what these things mean on the complex plane and how they explain things in the world.

I would imagine that if a big league mathematician saw something in you then you are very gifted indeed.

Try finding something beautiful and just do it because it is beautiful with no other expectations.

95 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:05:17am

re: #93 zombie

Because you push the earth down an equivalent amount. It's just that Earth with its huge mass goes "down" only a teeny tiny bit; you with your small mass go way "up" a lot.

Then when you "fall" the earth is sucking you back down; but your mass is also sucking the earth back up that same teenty tiny bit.

it's easier to understand when you get rid of the concepts of up and down. I find it easier to turn the "diagram' sideways so that the two bodies are simply moving "away" from each other, with no point of reference being preferred.

Awesome that is 3/4 the story - the most important point really. Pushing the Earth is much harder than pushing you.

Imagine that the top of your body is a block, and your legs are like a spring. Now fill in the rest.

96 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:08:35am

re: #93 zombie

Also the fact that you turned the diagram on it's side to remove a preferred direction is very interesting and the sort of thing that causes us physics teachers to grin very happily.

You actually hit on a bunch of deep things there instinctively.

97 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:09:29am

re: #92 TheMatrix31

Good-night! Safe driving and happy dining.

98 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:10:26am

re: #89 LudwigVanQuixote

The most important thing is to never do too much for them. You have to show them the path and them cheerlead them down it. In science the biggest mistake is to just work the problem for them and say "see how it's done?" That rarely helps as a primary method. It's kind of like doing pushups to get someone else in shape.

LOL. You're operating in a different plane of existence. You have no grasp quite exactly how "bad" it is when I say my school district had "bad" teachers.

One of my math teachers imagined himself a theoretician and was not interested in explaining things to students, and so instead stood at the blackboard scribbling equations and diagrams completely unrelated to the topic of the class (that any of us could tell) and mumbled to himself.

Another teacher did not know thing one about any kind of math, and furthermore did not know English. All he did was hand out workbooks on the first day and say, "Make answer. Book," pointing to the workbook. That was the only sentence I ever heard him speak in English. He had a teaching assistant grade the workbooks. No instruction was ever offered.

And so on. You get the picture.

99 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:12:13am

re: #98 zombie

LOL. You're operating in a different plane of existence. You have no grasp quite exactly how "bad" it is when I say my school district had "bad" teachers.

One of my math teachers imagined himself a theoretician and was not interested in explaining things to students, and so instead stood at the blackboard scribbling equations and diagrams completely unrelated to the topic of the class (that any of us could tell) and mumbled to himself.

Another teacher did not know thing one about any kind of math, and furthermore did not know English. All he did was hand out workbooks on the first day and say, "Make answer. Book," pointing to the workbook. That was the only sentence I ever heard him speak in English. He had a teaching assistant grade the workbooks. No instruction was ever offered.

And so on. You get the picture.

Yes I do. Every time I get freshmen, I start the hard work of de-traumatizing them so that I can start the hard work of teaching them.

100 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:18:37am

re: #99 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes I do. Every time I get freshmen, I start the hard work of de-traumatizing them so that I can start the hard work of teaching them.

Well then, your students are fortunate to get you.

I remember I had some poor teachers - more so in the physics department than the math department. I did have a horrible math teacher once - for an upper level linear programming class. The guy was a foreign post-doc (Sikh) whose English was so poor I couldn't understand him. I waited too long to drop the class, ended up getting a D. Retook the class and happened to get one of the best teachers in the (rather large) math department, and easily aced the class.

101 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:19:10am

re: #99 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes I do. Every time I get freshmen, I start the hard work of de-traumatizing them so that I can start the hard work of teaching them.

You may be wondering how, if I hate math so much and don't know anything beyond algebra and geometry, that I managed to get through college, since most colleges have a math requirement.

Clever me, I discovered that one could satisfy the math requirement by taking upper division courses not in math itself but in the history of math! Since these classes rarely required actual knowledge of any advanced mathematics, I satisfied the math and science requirements by taking classes about math, but not in math. I later found out I was not "allowed" to take those classes, as they were reserved for seniors who were already majoring in math, but no one stopped me, so I got away with it and managed to get a fancy degeree from a fancy university without having to figure a single equation. Bwahahaha!

102 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:23:42am

re: #94 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, you say you dig on Gregor Cantor - his work is essential to understanding the fractals I do. What got me into them was a sense of beauty.

[Link: magnusti78.deviantart.com...]

[Link: Jeddaka.deviantart.com...]

[Link: DigitalPainters.deviantart.com...]

It is one thing to admire things like this. It is another to understand what these things mean on the complex plane and how they explain things in the world.

I would imagine that if a big league mathematician saw something in you then you are very gifted indeed.

Try finding something beautiful and just do it because it is beautiful with no other expectations.

I love the nautilus shell and the way its spiral is seen in galaxies and weather patterns and in other places in nature. I don't know what that explains in the world, but I like to wonder about it.

Your fractal links were all visited and admired.

103 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:26:47am

re: #94 LudwigVanQuixote

It is one thing to admire things like this. It is another to understand what these things mean on the complex plane and how they explain things in the world.

I would imagine that if a big league mathematician saw something in you then you are very gifted indeed.

Weird coincidence, because you reminded me with your comment of one of the things that I think impressed him; during the conversation I began discussing a different plane I envisioned with irrational numbers on one axis and a numerical system which I had devised myself (and which I'd rather not describe here) as the other axis. It was at this point that his eyes really started to pop out of his head and he began to get really excited. I could see ideas soaring in his head, taking off in all sorts of more rigorous directions from my rather amateurish rendition of my idea. But it was in some ways not dissimilar to the complex plane, but frankly even more "out there."

104 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:30:24am

re: #102 Silvergirl

I love the nautilus shell and the way its spiral is seen in galaxies and weather patterns and in other places in nature. I don't know what that explains in the world, but I like to wonder about it.

Your fractal links were all visited and admired.

I'm glad you liked them. If you explore deviant art, you will find hundreds of them.

105 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:32:19am

Great. I usually wake up to mind numbing conversations that carry the nutritional value of a can of beenie weenies, albeit fun. But this morning, I get brainiacs.

106 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:32:35am

re: #103 zombie

Weird coincidence, because you reminded me with your comment of one of the things that I think impressed him; during the conversation I began discussing a different plane I envisioned with irrational numbers on one axis and a numerical system which I had devised myself (and which I'd rather not describe here) as the other axis. It was at this point that his eyes really started to pop out of his head and he began to get really excited. I could see ideas soaring in his head, taking off in all sorts of more rigorous directions from my rather amateurish rendition of my idea. But it was in some ways not dissimilar to the complex plane, but frankly even more "out there."

OK. You are awesome. It really is a tragedy that you don't look into this more. So, I would like to encourage you the best way I know.

what is the remaining 1/4 of the force problem, You already got the hardest part. Just finish it up and tell the whole story.

107 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:32:40am

GOP lawmaker criticizes Nazi talk

Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (Wash.), a member of the House Republican leadership, offered criticism Thursday to those comparing Democratic leaders to Nazis in the healthcare debate.

“I think the purpose of the town halls is for people to be able to express their views in an orderly and respectful manner, and that needs to take place on both sides,” said McMorris Rodgers, the fifth-ranking Republican in the House.

“I certainly don’t condone violence, I don’t condone calling President Obama Hitler and painting swastikas on signs at town halls,” continued McMorris Rodgers, vice chairwoman of the GOP conference.

108 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:37:10am

re: #107 Sharmuta

Don't you know... Rep. Rodgers is a RINO!

/anyway, that is what the freeper crowd calls her

109 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:37:44am

re: #105 Cannadian Club Akbar

Great. I usually wake up to mind numbing conversations that carry the nutritional value of a can of beenie weenies, albeit fun. But this morning, I get brainiacs.

I'm not sure there's enough coffee IN THE WORLD for me to follow this morning's conversation!

/who let the geniuses out?

;-)

Hiya CC Akbar, zombie, Ludwig...

110 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:39:30am

re: #108 freetoken

Part of me hopes they keep it up so they can see how effective dwindling one's coalition is.

111 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:41:04am

re: #104 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm glad you liked them. If you explore deviant art, you will find hundreds of them.

Are any of them your own creations?

112 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:41:36am

re: #109 littleoldlady

I'm not sure there's enough coffee IN THE WORLD for me to follow this morning's conversation!

/who let the geniuses out?

;-)

Hiya CC Akbar, zombie, Ludwig...

I know. I mean, this keeps me happy...

Youtube Video

Morning LoL.
113 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:43:02am

re: #111 Silvergirl

Are any of them your own creations?

Not those no. There is a whole set of mathematical computer programs that the art world got their hands on and started running with.

114 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:43:32am

re: #109 littleoldlady

morning... speaking of which I really must get to sleep soon.

115 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:44:23am

re: #107 Sharmuta

GOP lawmaker criticizes Nazi talk

Well done, Rodgers.

116 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:45:00am

re: #90 Floral Giraffe

HI Floral! The computer was hijacked by my wife.

117 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:46:12am

re: #114 LudwigVanQuixote

I've put yet another person to sleep?

/I really should bottle it and sell it...

;-)

118 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:46:54am

At the Town Halls, Trivializing Evil

The accusation is a staple of American T-shirt and bumper-sticker political culture, found too often at liberal antiwar protests and conservative tea parties. Anyone with a black felt pen and the ability to draw a Hitler moustache on a poster can make this witty, trenchant political statement. Michael Moore compared the USA Patriot Act to "Mein Kampf." Al Gore warned of "digital Brownshirts."

ad_icon

This rhetorical strategy is intended to convey intensity of conviction, as in, "I am very, very, very serious, you Nazi jerk." Actually, it is a lazy shortcut to secure an emotional response. Worse than that, it is an argument that puts an end to all argument. What discourse is possible with the spawn of Hitler? And when someone is unjustly accused of Nazi tactics or sympathies, what response can we expect other than Buckley's outrage? Let the head knocking begin.

119 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:47:57am

ok have a great day all! bed calls for me.

120 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:50:03am

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

OK. You are awesome. It really is a tragedy that you don't look into this more. So, I would like to encourage you the best way I know.

what is the remaining 1/4 of the force problem, You already got the hardest part. Just finish it up and tell the whole story.

Sorry to disappoint, but your vignette about the block on the body and the springs on the feet totally dizened my brain, and I'm unsure what is even being asked any more.

I'll tell you what has really bothered me about this problem is how the two bodies manage to stay distinct in the first place. The way I figure, there must be quantum effects or at least strong/weak force effects causing a quantum-level repulsion between the surface of the two "bodies" at the point where they make contact (or more precisely -- near-contact). I mean, if matter is 99% nothingness but is instead an ethereal web of nuclei barely held together, then what the hell is preventing two bodies -- drawn together by gravity -- from fusing into each other like two balls of cotton candy?

The only explanation is that the same forces which cause a consistent cohesion holding one body into a self-contained unit at the same time present a repulsive barrier which on a quantum level prevents another body from merging with it. So that a quantum effect at a sub-nano scale is already causing us to "float" above the earth's surface at all times. And we are therefore not pushing against the earth itself when we jump, but rather against this "force field" (to use a retro-sounding phrase -- sorry I'm not conversant in all the terminology), and that an equivalent force field on the bottom of my shoes prevents the earth from melding into me.

So, our "jumping" away from the earth is not actually Newtonian, but requires quantum effects to fully explain it as well.

That's the part of the two-body problem which bothers me.

121 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:51:02am

re: #119 LudwigVanQuixote

ok have a great day all! bed calls for me.

Oh well -- missed ya!

I'll try to type faster next time.

122 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:52:10am

re: #120 zombie


That's the part of the two-body problem which bothers me.

Electrons don't like each other (indeed, they are quite anti-social, though they might bond in pairs). So, the electrons on the bottom of your feet want to stay away from the electrons of the floor material (wood, tile, etc.)

123 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:56:20am

re: #122 freetoken

Electrons don't like each other (indeed, they are quite anti-social, though they might bond in pairs). So, the electrons on the bottom of your feet want to stay away from the electrons of the floor material (wood, tile, etc.)

Right -- which means that what appears on our human scale to be purely mechanical, physical "jumping" is actually me pressing my electron field more firmly on the the dirt-molecules electron fleld, and then I am propelled upward not by mechanical action but rather by electromagnetic repulsion. See what I mean?

This is a good example of wbat I was talking about when I say that at finer levels of resolution, the old paradigms don't exactly explain any more what is happening.

124 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:57:56am

re: #118 Sharmuta

Absolutely! The proper study of Hitler is Hitler (to paraphrase Johnson). If everybody is Hitler them nobody was Hitler! It diminishes Hitler's enormities!

125 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:58:38am

re: #115 Silvergirl

Well done, Rodgers.

It's about time someone in the GOP spoke up. She's the 5th ranking republican in the House which makes me wonder, where are the top 4?

126 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:58:41am

re: #118 Sharmuta

I couldn't agree more.

From your link:

But it is our nature to attempt to wrestle meaning from catastrophe. So we draw lessons about the poison of racism, the dangers of blind obedience to authority, the corruption of grand schemes of social purity, the shallowness of civilization in "civilized" nations, and the hatred hiding within ordinary men and women.

These lessons are relevant to politics. But they are trivialized when applied to Obama's health insurance reform plan or the conduct of disorderly town-hall protesters. The burning of the Reichstag and Kristallnacht are not arguments against a single-payer health plan or against the Patriot Act.

127 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:59:35am

re: #125 Sharmuta

It's about time someone in the GOP spoke up. She's the 5th ranking republican in the House which makes me wonder, where are the top 4?

Without checking, I'm guessing men.

Heh.

128 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:00:00am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!

129 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:00:44am

re: #128 littleoldlady

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!

Thank you littleoldlady! Once again perfection!

130 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:00:50am

re: #128 littleoldlady

Thank you, LoL. On the money again!!

131 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:01:10am

re: #128 littleoldlady

Thank you, littleoldlady.

132 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:01:14am
128 littleoldlady 8/14/09 2:00:00 am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!

Right on the money! Congratulations!

133 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:01:41am

re: #120 zombie

I checked back incase you hadn't fallen asleep.

OK... Take your first insight about how hard it is to push on the Earth because it has much greater inertia (from its much greater mass). Now...

Imagine you have a block with a spring on it's bottom like this...

]~~~[]

And you compress it like this...

]~[]

And no imagine that the spring is NOT attached to the Earth.

What happens...

The block is your torso and the spring is your legs.

How do you jump up?

Also the answer about things staying distinct (under every day how am I not part of the floor sense) is that atoms have electron clouds around them and electrons repel each other through the electromagnetic force.

The electron clouds in your feet push away from the electron clouds in the floor.

134 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:02:43am

I'll check back later today. I really must sleep now though.

135 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:02:51am

re: #124 BatGuano

Absolutely! The proper study of Hitler is Hitler (to paraphrase Johnson). If everybody is Hitler them nobody was Hitler! It diminishes Hitler's enormities!

Shit! I meant Alexander Pope! I get those eggheads mixed up.

136 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:02:53am

re: #124 BatGuano

Absolutely! The proper study of Hitler is Hitler (to paraphrase Johnson). If everybody is Hitler them nobody was Hitler! It diminishes Hitler's enormities!

Trivializing is the exact correct word for it. It's insulting to the memories of those who perished at the hands of that evil regime.

137 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:03:01am

re: #128 littleoldlady

Gracias, gracious lady.

138 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:03:37am

re: #133 ludwigvanquixote

Also the answer about things staying distinct (under every day how am I not part of the floor sense) is that atoms have electron clouds around them and electrons repel each other through the electromagnetic force.

The electron clouds in your feet push away from the electron clouds in the floor.

But see my answer above at #123:

Right -- which means that what appears on our human scale to be purely mechanical, physical "jumping" is actually me pressing my electron field more firmly on the the dirt-molecules electron fleld, and then I am propelled upward not by mechanical action but rather by electromagnetic repulsion. See what I mean?

This is a good example of wbat I was talking about when I say that at finer levels of resolution, the old paradigms don't exactly explain any more what is happening.

(It's easy and interesting to talk about physics and math on these sort of rudimentary childish levels -- but the moment someone introduces one number, variable or mathematical symbol, I run away screaming.)

139 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:03:46am

BatGuano! :-)

CC Akbar! :-)

Sharmuta! :-)

zombie! :-)

140 SixDegrees  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:04:04am

re: #107 Sharmuta

GOP lawmaker criticizes Nazi talk

Yay!

I'm sure they'll be skinning her alive over at Malkin's site before long.

141 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:04:25am

Silvergirl! :-)

142 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:04:42am

So, we have a snake problem here in Florida. Some dude caught a 14 foot python next to a day care. Turns out, it was his snake and he set the whole thing up. Idiot.

143 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:04:45am

re: #136 Sharmuta

That is the lesson in this nonsense.

144 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:05:47am

re: #121 zombie

Oh well -- missed ya!

I'll try to type faster next time.

He'll be checking back he said. It'll keep while he sleeps.

145 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:08:48am

re: #138 zombie

You are correct and getting lost in the details.

The whole electron thing is the origin of the equal and opposite forces.

What I am driving at is when those forces cancel, between your feet and the floor, it would seem an apparent contradiction that you could turn zero net force into something that could move you up.

So I am asking yes, you are right the same force acting on the Earth (provided by your legs) will have a drastically lesser effect on the Earth than it will on the rest of your body.

How do you use that fact and the block and spring thing, to explain how you do jump up.

What is the sequence in terms of forces. How do the forces on the ground translate to the forces on your torso so that you do move up?

146 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:09:55am

ok now I really mean it, it's 5:00 am here!

147 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:10:11am

And you guys are awesome!

148 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:10:56am

re: #142 Cannadian Club Akbar

I saw a spot on the news where a couple of kids in Florida were "playing" with an alligator and some rope.

/whatever happened to TOYS?!

The cops told the reporter, "School can't start soon enough!"

/classic!

149 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:12:33am

re: #140 SixDegrees

Yay!

I'm sure they'll be skinning her alive over at Malkin's site before long.

And elsewhere.

150 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:13:21am

re: #148 littleoldlady

When I was a kid in Oklahoma, we used to climb a fence, annoy a bull and then jump over the fence. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

151 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:13:57am

re: #133 ludwigvanquixote

Take your first insight about how hard it is to push on the Earth because it has much greater inertia (from its much greater mass). Now...

Imagine you have a block with a spring on it's bottom like this...

]~~~[]

And you compress it like this...

]~[]

And no imagine that the spring is NOT attached to the Earth.

What happens...

The block is your torso and the spring is your legs.

How do you jump up?

Well, once again, I'm a little confused by the question (this being perhaps a good example of each student requiring an individualized way of grasping things, and not all of them responding to the teacher's visualization example).

How do I jump up? Well, in your scenario I jump up if the torsion of the springs has a greater potential energy than the energy it would require to pry the two bodies apart in the distortion of that particular gravity field.

If the springs are tiny and feeble, I don't go anywhere because their potential energy is miniscule compare to the force holding me where I am. If the springs are giganticaaly powerful, they might sproing me up so far that I would exit the gravity well of the other mass-body and achieve escape velocity. If the springs are "just right," then we see a special case of me moving a short distance in the gravity field, gaining potential energy as I move away from the center of the other body's mass -- and then since I haven't reached orbital or escape velocity, I run out of juice and expend my energy falling back down to the same bottom of the gravity well I was in before.

Hmmm...I get the feeling this is not the answer you were looking for. I made it a hundred times more unnecessarily complicated. Sorry!

152 Silvergirl  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:14:40am

Bedtime by the light of the silvery moon. While it lasts.

Don't expect me to get back up to tutor your math and science work.

Good-night all! Thanks for the rare delight (for me) of fruitcup.

153 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:15:47am

re: #150 BatGuano

We used to play with caterpillars.

/not the same? ;-)

'Night, Silvergirl! :-) Good to see you.

154 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:16:09am

Good Morning! Is the fruitcup all gone?

155 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:16:47am

re: #148 littleoldlady

I saw a spot on the news where a couple of kids in Florida were "playing" with an alligator and some rope.

/whatever happened to TOYS?!

The cops told the reporter, "School can't start soon enough!"

/classic!

Before they re-did Alligator Alley, you could pull off on the shoulder and watch the gators.

156 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:17:37am

And I now COMMAND ludwigvanquixote to forget about this conversation and go to sleep! Do NOT answer me. Real life is more important.

157 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:18:07am

re: #152 Silvergirl

Sail on Silvergirl. Goodnight.

158 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:18:34am

re: #155 Cannadian Club Akbar

The last time - and only time - I was there, there were signs saying "Don't pull off the road!"

Didn't matter. What I thought were alligators lying by the side of the road were actually tire treads from trucks. ;-)

159 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:19:03am

Hiya, srb! :-)

There's always fruitcup for you! In the fridge... →

160 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:19:30am

re: #151 zombie

You seem to be making the problem more complex.

Unfortunately, the inability to embed graphics in comments, plus the difficulty of embedding mathematical formula (though Unicode does give limited capability) makes describing these physics problems quite difficult.

Not that it can't be done in English, but it becomes very difficult.

Mechanical movement does not preclude other types of forces. E.g., one can use electrostatics (say, the repulsion of electrons) to cause movement of masses.

161 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:20:22am

BTW, it seems to be anthro day for me... I've put up another spin-off about early humans.

Clever species, we are.

162 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:21:18am

re: #158 littleoldlady

The last time - and only time - I was there, there were signs saying "Don't pull off the road!"

Didn't matter. What I thought were alligators lying by the side of the road were actually tire treads from trucks. ;-)

I was younger then. So when a sign said don't do this or don't do that, we usually did it:)

163 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:22:23am

re: #151 zombie

I had to check back. I had a feeling you'd be typing.

You are absolutely right in what you said about enrgy, and if you keep that in mind, it's a great way to see the relationship between force and energy.

But I am asking about this in terms of force.

Energy does not come and trump force to make the apparent force contradiction disappear.

When you coil the spring, it has a force that it wants to push because it is coiled. One end pushes the Earth and the other pushes the block.

So put that together with the fact that the block masses much less than the Earth - which was the really hard part of this.

When the spring supplies force to accelerate the block up and the Earth down, what happens to the block (and the spring) if the spring is not attached to the Earth?

164 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:23:07am

re: #159 littleoldlady

Hiya, srb! :-)

There's always fruitcup for you! In the fridge... →

Woo Hoo! Thanks lol = )

165 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:23:57am

re: #158 littleoldlady

And, BTW, the term for a blown tire in the middle of the interstate is known as a "gator tail."

166 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:24:10am

re: #160 freetoken

Mechanical movement does not preclude other types of forces. E.g., one can use electrostatics (say, the repulsion of electrons) to cause movement of masses.

Yes -- but what I was trying to say was that mechanical movement is necessarily always electrostatics. ( And thanks for that word.) Under normal circumstances, nothing ever really "touches" anything else. So what appears to us to be purely mechanical is actually electrostatics visible on a macro scale. Since what is actually causing the motion is the electrons on the bodies' surfaces repelling each other.

167 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:25:43am

re: #166 zombie

Yes -- but what I was trying to say was that mechanical movement is necessarily always electrostatics. ( And thanks for that word.) Under normal circumstances, nothing ever really "touches" anything else. So what appears to us to be purely mechanical is actually electrostatics visible on a macro scale. Since what is actually causing the motion is the electrons on the bodies' surfaces repelling each other.

And that is exactly correct. At the end of the day, there are only four fundamental forces. The origin of the forces in the jump up problem are gravity pulls you down and E&M repulsion keeps you from going through the floor.

168 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:26:23am

re: #163 Ludwigvanquixote

I refuse to answer on humanitarian grounds! You must go to sleep. If necessary, we will continue this conversation at a more convenient time.

Don't let blog-commenting interfere with reality!

169 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:26:26am

re: #165 Cannadian Club Akbar

And, BTW, the term for a blown tire in the middle of the interstate is known as a "gator tail."

Only in Florida ;-)

170 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:30:13am

re: #168 zombie

I refuse to answer on humanitarian grounds! You must go to sleep. If necessary, we will continue this conversation at a more convenient time.

Don't let blog-commenting interfere with reality!

OK very well, but let me say that this is a line of questioning that a fair number of juniors who got A's in physics one struggle with and you have already gotten the hardest part.

Just imagine you actually did this with a block that had a spring on the bottom. You press it down and let it go. What happens?

The reason this is a difficult question is because it is a forest for the trees kind of thing that most of the bright ones fall into. Do not become discouraged. This only really bugs the smart ones. You have to be clever to have the forest in the first place (to abuse a metaphor).

You have all of the pieces.

171 zombie  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:33:44am

re: #170 LudwigVanQuixote

Discuss later. Sleep now.

I am now logging off, to end any excuse for keeping checking this thread! Au revoir!

172 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:34:09am

There are only four (known) fundamental forces the electromagnetic, the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force and gravity. At the micro level, gravity is the weakest, at the macro level gravity overcomes all. If I could come up with a theory that could integrate gravity with the other three forces,
I could get more chicks than you could shake a stick at (if that's your idea of a good time).

173 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:35:19am

re: #171 zombie

Goodnight, Zombie.

174 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:38:08am

re: #172 BatGuano

...and gravity is not my friend.

175 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:40:31am

You folks are making me wish I had paid more attention in physics class...

176 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:42:28am

They're making me wish I had TAKEN a physics class!

/not.a.clue. :-(

177 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:46:21am

re: #174 littleoldlady

...and gravity is not my friend.

It is nobody's friend unless you want to be flung into space at 1,100 miles per hour. As a gentleman, I will ignore your immediate concern. :)

178 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:48:40am

re: #177 BatGuano

ONE of us has a dirty mind...

/I was talking about the "getting shorter" thingie

;-)

179 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:49:43am

So, the Little Man started Pre-K this week...better half is having a really hard time with it...
We had our first meeting with his teacher last night...and somehow, I have homework again.
hmmm

180 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:52:27am

re: #179 srb1976

And you will have homework for the next 18 years. Sorry.

181 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:52:44am

re: #178 littleoldlady

ONE of us has a dirty mind...

/I was talking about the "getting shorter" thingie

;-)

Hey! don't say, "getting shorter" to a guy.

182 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:54:07am

re: #181 BatGuano

Hey! don't say, "getting shorter" to a guy.

The water was REALLY cold!!
/

183 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:54:36am

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

The water was REALLY cold!!
/

Shrinkage!

184 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:55:07am

re: #179 srb1976

Ahhh..."The Packet". Takes at least one whole evening to fill out all the forms. By the time MNTS hit high school I had HER filling it out.

/writers' cramp!

Then you get to college and "The Packet" turns into "The Packet Nightmare"!

185 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:55:43am

re: #183 BatGuano

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

Always have to upding for those kinda jokes.

Ahoy, polloi! How goes it?

186 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:58:02am

re: #185 iceweasel

re: #182 Cannadian Club Akbar

Always have to upding for those kinda jokes.

Ahoy, polloi! How goes it?

All the smart people went to bed, so you're stuck with us.

187 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:58:16am

re: #184 littleoldlady

Yep...and this year "the packet" has essay questions...
I get to fill everything out (if better half did no one could read it)
The Little Man is doing great in his new class though, and that's what counts = )

188 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:59:12am

re: #185 iceweasel

Nice integration of nautical and greek. Doing fine. I was just wondering if you were about.

189 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:04:47am

re: #186 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey CCA, s'up?

re: #187 srb1976

Congrats on your little one!

re: #188 BatGuano

Nice integration of nautical and greek. Doing fine. I was just wondering if you were about.

Glad to hear you're doing well, B to the G. I'm around and about. Kinda depressing news cycle, IMO.

190 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:05:53am

re: #187 srb1976

My daughter was so ready for pre-school. She had cousins who were already in school and she was mighty jealous of them.

I will never forget that first day. Twelve kids. Eleven of them surgically attached to mommy's leg crying their little eyes out. My kid? "Bye Mom!" Whoosh!

/at least she didn't say, "Don't let the door knob hit you on the way out!"

So the other moms are looking at me in horror..."What kind of LOUSY mother is THAT?!"

/hey! only child! no one to play with...

;-)

Enjoy these times, srb. They're priceless!

191 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:10:08am

re: #190 littleoldlady

It's funny, Little Man hates to go to school, he has fought every step of the way since he started daycare. But his classroom now is the one he always wanted to stop and play in on the way out before (the older kids get all the good toys)...
Plus, no parents allowed in the room anymore (big change). But when he got dropped off the other day, he just headed in, introduced himself, and sat down...poor better half, he's having a much harder time than I am...(I am too proud to be very sad) = )

192 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:12:57am

re: #190 littleoldlady

I remember vividly when my wife and I took our first born to preschool. I felt that we were abandoning her to the Visigoths and that she would never forgive us. We went to the classroom, an aide opened the door and there were the children drawing on white butcher paper. Lauren walked in, sat down, grabbed a crayon, and began to draw. She looked at us as if to say. " You still here?"

193 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:14:59am

Alex Jones fans will rejoice over this...
[Link: www.sunjournal.com...]

194 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:15:32am

re: #192 BatGuano

Happy, sad.

195 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:17:15am

re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar

Alex Jones fans will rejoice over this...
[Link: www.sunjournal.com...]

But everyone knows the swine flu vaccine is really a way for Obama to inject us all with microchips that will let the lizard people spy on us from their mothership!!!111!!

//

196 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:18:09am

re: #195 iceweasel

But everyone knows the swine flu vaccine is really a way for Obama to inject us all with microchips that will let the lizard people spy on us from their mothership!!!111!!

//

Are we spying on people now? I missed that memo...

197 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:18:38am

re: #195 iceweasel

But everyone knows the swine flu vaccine is really a way for Obama to inject us all with microchips that will let the lizard people spy on us from their mothership!!!111!!

//

Foolish girl, we are the lizard people!!

198 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:19:31am

WE ARE THE LIZARD PEOPLE!! ALL MUST SUBMIT!! AND BRING COOKIES!!

199 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:19:40am

re: #191 srb1976

I think if she had cried like the other kids I would have run away after dropping her off. As it was I had my nose pressed up against the window for nearly an hour.

/me crying
//she waving me away, "GO! GO!"

This was the year that pre-school had just opened. They learned. The next year they locked the patio door after all the kids were in, so the parents couldn't get anywhere near the windows.

/parents milling about the parking lot
//NOT a pretty sight! ;-)

All of my kid's milestones are/were hard for me. The fact that SHE is always more than ready to try new things and places forced me to put on a happy face.

200 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:20:19am

Morning all...how's everybody this fine AM?

201 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:22:57am

re: #200 Fenway_Nation

Morning Fenway!
Everything is just ducky this morning = )

202 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:22:58am

'Morning, Fenway! :-)

Reminiscing.

/good times...good times...

203 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:23:30am

re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar

Alex Jones fans will rejoice over this...
[Link: www.sunjournal.com...]

It's too bad it's for a flu riot. Imagine the head explosions if it were for town halls! ;p

204 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:23:36am

re: #196 srb1976

Are we spying on people now? I missed that memo...

That's because the memo was CLASSIFIED! REPTILIAN EYES ONLY!

Actually there was an article in Esquire this week about Orly Taitz, nirther queen, and it mentioned some of her other wacky beliefs.

There's a cemetery somewhere in Arizona where they just dug 30,000 fresh graves, which wait now for the revolution.

Baxter International — a major Obama contributor — developed a vaccine for bird flu that actually kills people.

Google Congressman Alcee Hastings and House Bill 684 and you'll see that they're planning at least six civilian labor camps!


[Link: www.esquire.com...]

205 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:23:42am

re: #200 Fenway_Nation

Morning all...how's everybody this fine AM?


Good morning, Fenway.

206 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:23:51am

re: #201 srb1976

How's the water truck driving going, srb?

207 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:25:52am

re: #199 littleoldlady

His pre-k is in the same place his daycare has been, and they pretty much let parents have the run of the place...except the pre-k room. No parents past the door unless you are picking up a sick kid!
It was a real surprise to us, little man has always had a tough time with new people, but not this time = )
I kinda like it! He's come a long way = )

208 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:26:51am

re: #206 Fenway_Nation

How's the water truck driving going, srb?

At my last job our water truck driver would soak you if you came near it or if you drove by with your windows down.

209 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:27:36am

re: #206 Fenway_Nation

How's the water truck driving going, srb?

Ack! I was just getting the hang of it, when someone (management) had a "better idea"...so now I get to play with the shear (making little pieces of steel out of big pieces of steel) = )

210 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:27:53am

re: #208 Cannadian Club Akbar


Let's not be giving srb any ideas here...

211 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:29:06am

re: #209 srb1976

Ack! I was just getting the hang of it, when someone (management) had a "better idea"...so now I get to play with the shear (making little pieces of steel out of big pieces of steel) = )


Let your enemies know what you do:)

212 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:29:16am

re: #210 Fenway_Nation

Let's not be giving srb any ideas here...

Actually, they insist that folks in the water truck play nice and not spray the private vehicles...but accidents do happen {insert evil, malicious grin here}

213 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:30:57am

re: #204 iceweasel


From the conservative right, I apologize for the nut jobs. I try, but I can't do a damn thing with 'em. I think Sharmuta might be throwing up her smurf hands about now.

214 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:31:07am

Random thought, but has anybody considered photoshopping 0bama's mug onto a still of the androgynous Xerxes from 300?

/Maybe with the caption 'I am kind'...

215 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:32:53am

re: #214 Fenway_Nation

I know it's not PC or anything, but I love that movie = )
Better half was cheering out loud in the movie theater when we saw it

216 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:33:03am

re: #212 srb1976

Actually, they insist that folks in the water truck play nice and not spray the private vehicles...but accidents do happen {insert evil, malicious grin here}

Totally agree, you vixen!

217 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:33:33am

re: #213 BatGuano

From the conservative right, I apologize for the nut jobs. I try, but I can't do a damn thing with 'em. I think Sharmuta might be throwing up her smurf hands about now.

Heck- I'm opening up a concession stand to sell pitch forks.

218 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:33:49am

re: #215 srb1976

I know it's not PC or anything, but I love that movie = )
Better half was cheering out loud in the movie theater when we saw it

I love that movie too! What's non-PC about it?

219 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:34:44am

re: #217 Sharmuta

Heck- I'm opening up a concession stand to sell pitch forks.

Don't forget the torches:)

220 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:34:48am

re: #207 srb1976

I kinda like it! He's come a long way = )

SOCIALIZATION is the only reason I didn't homeschool my kid. She has a natural curiosity and would have learned academics anywhere.

Yeah, it's tremendously gratifying to watch! :-)

We're going down to her school to visit the wonderful folks in financial aid this morning.

/I mean it - they're great!

So I'd better get moving...

Good day, ALL!™

221 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:34:55am

re: #217 Sharmuta

Heck- I'm opening up a concession stand to sell pitch forks.

hmmm... I see an opportunity here
I will set up next door to sell the torches (the villagers had torches AND pitchforks...I saw shrek, I know) = )

222 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:35:35am

re: #217 Sharmuta

Heck- I'm opening up a concession stand to sell pitch forks.

I used to think the shrieking harpy's claim that Obama is the secret love child of Malcolm X could never be surpassed...but I have found something even crazier. Are people interested, or is it too early for a bowl of CrazyFlakes?

223 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:35:40am

re: #217 Sharmuta

Heck- I'm opening up a concession stand to sell pitch forks.

You're going to compete with my tar-and-feather franchise?!

224 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:35:58am

re: #221 srb1976

hmmm... I see an opportunity here
I will set up next door to sell the torches (the villagers had torches AND pitchforks...I saw shrek, I know) = )

Now we just need someone to sell tomatoes.

225 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:36:03am

Squeaky is getting out?

226 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:36:27am

re: #222 iceweasel

I used to think the shrieking harpy's claim that Obama is the secret love child of Malcolm X could never be surpassed...but I have found something even crazier. Are people interested, or is it too early for a bowl of CrazyFlakes?

Do share!

227 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:36:52am

re: #217 Sharmuta

Perhaps we should sell concessions for water tubs?

Think about it... True conservatives could tie up their local GOP politicians, put them in a tub of water, and determine if the politician is a true Republican (i.e., the candidate would sink) or is in fact a RINO (i.e., the candidate would float.)

228 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:37:25am

re: #218 iceweasel

I love that movie too! What's non-PC about it?

You missed all the fuss about how it was racist? (because the bad guys were brown) or too violent...or how it was homophobic?, or mean to the disabled?
I remember seeing a lot of Very PC criticism at the time it came out

229 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:38:39am

re: #223 littleoldlady

You're going to compete with my tar-and-feather franchise?!

That's not competition. They need the pitch forks to keep 'em in line while applying them thar feathers.

230 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:38:51am

re: #227 freetoken

Perhaps we should sell concessions for water tubs?

Think about it... True conservatives could tie up their local GOP politicians, put them in a tub of water, and determine if the politician is a true Republican (i.e., the candidate would sink) or is in fact a RINO (i.e., the candidate would float.)

Just use the Potomac, less travel.

231 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:39:06am

re: #227 freetoken

Perhaps we should sell concessions for water tubs?

Think about it... True conservatives could tie up their local GOP politicians, put them in a tub of water, and determine if the politician is a true Republican (i.e., the candidate would sink) or is in fact a RINO (i.e., the candidate would float.)

Dammit! I was trying to come up with a Monty Python reference!

232 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:39:13am

re: #227 freetoken

Perhaps we should sell concessions for water tubs?

Think about it... True conservatives could tie up their local GOP politicians, put them in a tub of water, and determine if the politician is a true Republican (i.e., the candidate would sink) or is in fact a RINO (i.e., the candidate would float.)

We just need a giant scale and a duck.

233 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:39:34am

re: #227 freetoken

Perhaps we should sell concessions for water tubs?

Think about it... True conservatives could tie up their local GOP politicians, put them in a tub of water, and determine if the politician is a true Republican (i.e., the candidate would sink) or is in fact a RINO (i.e., the candidate would float.)

The obligatory Monty Python reference

234 littleoldlady  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:40:03am

re: #225 MandyManners

Squeaky is getting out?

Probably going to live with Bill Ayers.

*p00f!*

235 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:40:31am

re: #226 Sharmuta

Do share!

Ok...here goes (linking google cache, not the nutbar's site):

Photographic Evidence That Barack Obama is a Human/Reptile Hybrid, Part 1.

Also, by someone else entirely, in a letter to Salon:


The Real Reason Barack Wants to Reform Health Care: He Was Born With a Vestigial Tail

I think I like the vestigial tail story better, personally. Wingnuttier.

236 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:41:06am

re: #232 Sharmuta

We just need a giant scale and a duck.

Who are you, so wise in the ways of science?

237 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:41:29am

re: #220 littleoldlady


Good day, LoL!

238 nonic  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:42:17am
More people are killed every year by pigs than by sharks, which shows you how good we are at evaluating risk. — Bruce Schneier

Moral: Stay out of the water and be safe from pigs.

239 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:42:19am

re: #228 srb1976

You missed all the fuss about how it was racist? (because the bad guys were brown) or too violent...or how it was homophobic?, or mean to the disabled?
I remember seeing a lot of Very PC criticism at the time it came out

Hmmm, I remember criticism of some of the critics of it. I missed the other stuff. Kind of out of the pop culture loop, I fear. Anyway, I love that movie.

240 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:42:23am

re: #235 iceweasel

WOW!! Serious crazy!!

241 srb1976  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:42:41am

That's it for me folks...time to get back to work (at least the latest 'better idea" is day shift all the time...better half is happy, and that makes my life easier)
Back to the salt mines!
Have a great day!!

242 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:42:45am

re: #220 littleoldlady

Good day, littleoldlady!

243 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:43:18am

re: #241 srb1976

Good day, srb!

244 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:44:16am

re: #235 iceweasel

Ok...here goes (linking google cache, not the nutbar's site):

Photographic Evidence That Barack Obama is a Human/Reptile Hybrid, Part 1.

Ho. Lee. Shit.

245 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:44:16am

re: #238 nonic

I don't think Pig Week on the Discovery Channel will be quite the ratings-grabber...

246 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:44:38am

re: #236 BatGuano

Who are you, so wise in the ways of science?

Just some chick who read the morning thread at LGF!

247 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:45:04am

re: #241 srb1976

Fare thee well, srb!

248 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:46:50am

re: #240 Cannadian Club Akbar

WOW!! Serious crazy!!

Oh yeah. I kind of specialise in collecting these things, but the vestigial tail story may be the craziest one yet.

(I'm a little surprised they're not claiming he was also born with vestigial horns and a tiny 666 on his scalp.)

249 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:49:47am

re: #248 iceweasel

I think the reptile hybrid is more crazy. What kind of moron colorizes a black and white picture and then thinks it could prove a skin condition?! Wow.

250 nonic  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:50:11am

littleoldlady

Are you there? I have a thought I want to share with you.

251 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:51:04am

re: #248 iceweasel

I personally love crazy people. I like them even better when I've been drinking.

252 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:51:17am

re: #248 iceweasel

Doesn't everybody have 666 on their scalp? Isn't every guy horny?

253 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:52:29am

re: #251 Cannadian Club Akbar

I personally love crazy people. I like them even better when I've been drinking.

your'e making me blush.

254 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:56:26am

re: #249 Sharmuta

I think the reptile hybrid is more crazy. What kind of moron colorizes a black and white picture and then thinks it could prove a skin condition?! Wow.

You know, you might be right. It's kind of terrifying. I notice that they also have a discussion forum, which is frightening.

Don and I often talk on the phone and he mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he saw entities on Barack's knees and forearms in the black and white photo seen above. When he re-introduced color into the photo, these entities were easier to spot. He sent me a color version of the photo and I began to look at it carefully using PhotoShop. It's obvious that the photo was intentionally desaturated of color before publishing it on the Internet so you wouldn't notice the etheric entities popping out all over the place in this photograph. After enlarging and adjusting the contrast, the entities show up with remarkable clarity. I've divided this photo essay into three sections highlighting the entities seen on 1) Barack's forearms, knees, and hands; 2) on the wall behind Barack, and 3) on the forearms of Lolo Soetoro. It's obvious that Barack and Lolo are more than normal "aliens" in the earthly sense of the word.

Youtube Video
255 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 3:58:08am

re: #254 iceweasel

We don't mind aliens, as long as they aren't illegal:)

256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:00:50am

re: #79 Sharmuta

The steak houses in KC are amazing.

I was at the Omaha Beef Company (restaurant) in (yeah) Omaha, NE. Asked the waitress what she'd recommend for a vegetarian. She said...

"I recommend he goes back outside and reads the building!" She got a huge tip, and a bigger laugh from me.

257 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:02:34am

Are we doing teh crazy analyses this morning?

Don't think I can top the Obama as a lizard hybrid story...

But... Alex Jones is stepping up the anti-vaxx wars.

On one of his sites ( [Link: 74.125.155.132...] he has an article " CDC H1N1 “Community Engagement” Meetings — Register and Make Your Voice Heard" in which he is encouraging his followers to swamp public CDC hearings because:

The CDC needs to told we will not accept mandatory vaccination and Northcom militarization of our communities under the cover of a contrived flu pandemic.

On his show yesterday he was doing some hard-core anti-vaxx scare-monger, e.g.:

Youtube Video

Alex Jones, due to his psychotic megalomaniacal greed, will get what he wants - a disaster. Jones is a hazard to public health.

258 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:03:10am

re: #256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What the hell were you thinking!

259 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:03:31am

re: #254 iceweasel

"I completely altered this picture and once I did it proves he's an alien!"

That really does top pamela.

260 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:03:41am

re: #255 Cannadian Club Akbar

We don't mind aliens, as long as they aren't illegal:)

Heh. I do wonder why that guy thinks Obama somehow contracted his 'alien' condition from his stepfather. Weird.

But the vestigial tail theory is still picking up some points for crazy...

Several entries indicate that Barack was very aware of the stigma attached to being born with a tail and blamed the mixing of Caucasian and African American genes.

Uh, yeah.

261 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:05:52am

re: #235 iceweasel

I think that is pretty good satire. No way it is serious.

262 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:06:33am

re: #257 freetoken

I don't get flu shots for the sole reason I don't need them. And I live in the country, so I worry less about Northcom Militarization of cities. And I'm not crazy.

263 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:06:48am

re: #258 BatGuano

What the hell were you thinking!

Hey! We eat too. (Restaurant was attached to the hotel)...

264 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:07:48am

re: #261 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think that is pretty good satire. No way it is serious.

Which, the vestigial tail or the human/reptilian hybrid one?

265 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:09:48am

I'm trying to figure out why some are making fun of Americans who are exercising their right--some would say duty--to question their elected officials. It's not like they're running round with giant, paper mache ducks.

266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:09:48am

re: #264 iceweasel

Which, the vestigial tail or the human/reptilian hybrid one?

Yes.

267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:11:29am
'The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'

I just felt like saying that.

268 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:11:47am

re: #266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Anyone remember the lying woman in True Stories who claimed to have been born with a tail?

269 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:14:47am

re: #267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just felt like saying that.

Pulp Fiction?

270 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:15:22am

re: #263 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey! We eat too. (Restaurant was attached to the hotel)...

/At a place called Omaha Beef! Get out of my sight!

271 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:16:28am

re: #266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yes.

Well...I did a little checking. The human/reptile one is by a crackpot who believes what he's saying, judging by the other contents of the site. Also, it's a variation on the David Ickes' lizard people conspiracies. Wacky as it seems, there are others who believe it too.

As for the vestigial tail one...I googled and it's popped up in a couple of places, but that letter I linked appears to be the original source. Since that person hasn't posted any other letters there, I can't get a read on thei intentions, but I suspect, sadly, that he/she believes it. :(

272 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:16:36am

re: #265 MandyManners

I'm trying to figure out why some are making fun of Americans who are exercising their right--some would say duty--to question their elected officials. It's not like they're running round with giant, paper mache ducks.

If their idea of questioning elected officials is to make up kookspiracy nonsense like Obama is an alien, then they're going to be made fun of.

273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:17:54am

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pulp Fiction?

I used to give my daughter Jules' speech before bedtime. It didn't help her sleep, but it did keep her quiet.

/

274 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:18:36am

re: #271 iceweasel

If you do not mind; I will continue to believe that no one is that crazy.

275 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:18:54am

re: #268 BatGuano

Anyone remember the lying woman in True Stories who claimed to have been born with a tail?

No? never mind.

276 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:19:47am

re: #274 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If you do not mind; I will continue to believe that no one is that crazy.

Course I don't mind, FBV!

277 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:23:08am

re: #274 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If you do not mind; I will continue to believe that no one is that crazy.

You want crazy? Listen to Coast to Coast some night.

278 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:23:44am

Yes, I'm a wee bit cranky.

279 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:24:26am

re: #272 Sharmuta

If their idea of questioning elected officials is to make up kookspiracy nonsense like Obama is an alien, then they're going to be made fun of.

What percentage of the citizens is doing that?

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:24:57am

re: #278 MandyManners

Yes, I'm a wee bit cranky.

Buck up little camper:)

281 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:25:42am

re: #278 MandyManners

Yes, I'm a wee bit cranky.

hi Mandy, Is it because of Obama?

282 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:26:37am

Good morning.

Futures are mixed before the open.

Foreign economies are still very weak which increases the demand for the dollar:
Dollar Will Rise and Punish Assets: Marc Faber


A period of weak stock markets and strong dollar is likely to come after the strong rally in developed and emerging markets alike, Marc Faber, the author of "The Gloom, Doom and Boom Report," told CNBC.

"I expect now for the next couple of months a period of a recovering dollar and weak assets," Faber said. "A strong dollar means global liquidity tightening."

The dollar will strengthen because the US economy is the least cyclical, but developing countries are more exposed.

283 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:27:19am

re: #279 MandyManners

What percentage of the citizens is doing that?

I have no idea. But when it gets spotted, they should be ridiculed for being the kooks they are.

284 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:28:21am

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

Buck up little camper:)

Do *what* to a little camper?

285 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:29:39am

re: #282 3 wood

Mornin' Wood!

Whaddya think of Michael Vick's return to the NFL?

286 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:30:45am

Not Your Grandfather’s Recession
'

This is not your grandfather’s recession.'

That’s what I was told this week by Paul Laudicina, author of World Out of Balance and one of the top business consultants with A.T. Kearney.
Paul says the economy is being reset by technology and a transformation of the market. The trap that many businesses – and investors – will fall into is thinking about things the way they used to be instead of the way they are, or soon will be.

To succeed, you have to liberate yourself from the way things were being done before.

Here are some of the most significant “resets” Paul believes are playing out:

We are clearly moving to an environment that is less about goods and manufacturing and more about services and experiences, such as healthcare, technology services, education, entertainment and the like.
Industrialized countries that we thought were atrophying are changing demographically, including the U.S., U.K. and Scandinavia.
Changing consumer patterns and rising demand for natural resources require a re-examination of how they are produced.
Global supply chains will require a new way of thinking.
Increased government intervention changes business, and many governments around the world have provided fiscal stimuli to their economies. The changing balance between public and private sectors is also part of the transformation taking place.

287 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:31:27am

re: #285 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Mornin' Wood!

I have Mornin' Wood!

288 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:31:30am

re: #281 BatGuano

hi Mandy, Is it because of Obama?

Some of the making fun of the mentally ill guy in L.A. got to me. It reminded me of the X's mom and her neighbors who suffered mightily from her ranting and raving when she'd go off her meds. It also reminded me of his half-brother who also was paranoid-schizophrenic who led cops in multiple states on a wild ride when he went off his meds.

289 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:32:09am

re: #285 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whaddya think of Michael Vick's return to the NFL?

I'm surprised he was signed before proving somewhere else that he could still play. He's been out of football for 2 years, thats a long time.

I'm not surprised that his criminal past was overlooked.

290 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:32:58am

re: #283 Sharmuta

I have no idea. But when it gets spotted, they should be ridiculed for being the kooks they are.

I agree with that but, I feel at times as if the whole movement is being mocked. I know I'm wrong about that but, it still puts sand in my shorts. It's my problem, though.

291 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:34:14am

re: #282 3 wood

I don't think I've been paying attention long enough- will this drag down the price of commodities?

292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:34:43am

re: #289 3 wood

I'm surprised he was signed before proving somewhere else that he could still play. He's been out of football for 2 years, thats a long time.

I'm not surprised that his criminal past was overlooked.

Now, the reason why I asked that question, is I knew you would give an intelligent, cogent response.

Now I can memorize your answer and sound both intelligent and cogent.

Not too proud to plagiarize.

Thanks!

293 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:35:09am

The toxic asset issue if far from over:

Toxic Loans Topping 5% May Push 150 Banks to Point of No Return

More than 150 publicly traded U.S. lenders own nonperforming loans that equal 5 percent or more of their holdings, a level that former regulators say can wipe out a bank’s equity and threaten its survival.

The number of banks exceeding the threshold more than doubled in the year through June, according to data compiled by Bloomberg, as real estate and credit-card defaults surged. Almost 300 reported 3 percent or more of their loans were nonperforming, a term for commercial and consumer debt that has stopped collecting interest or will no longer be paid in full.

The biggest banks with nonperforming loans of at least 5 percent include Wisconsin’s Marshall & Ilsley Corp. and Georgia’s Synovus Financial Corp., according to Bloomberg data. Among those exceeding 10 percent, the biggest in the 50 U.S. states was Michigan’s Flagstar Bancorp. All said in second- quarter filings they’re “well-capitalized” by regulatory standards, which means they’re considered financially sound.

“At a 3 percent level, I’d be concerned that there’s some underlying issue, and if they’re at 5 percent, chances are regulators have them classified as being in unsafe and unsound condition,” said Walter Mix, former commissioner of the California Department of Financial Institutions, and now a managing director of consulting firm LECG in Los Angeles. He wasn’t commenting on any specific banks.

294 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:35:41am

re: #288 MandyManners

Mandy, are talking about the mentally ill guy in the standoff in L.A?

295 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:36:24am

re: #291 Fenway_Nation

I don't think I've been paying attention long enough- will this drag down the price of commodities?

It will make our commodities more expensive for other countries to buy.

296 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:36:46am

Goodness, don't crank me up about Vick. The Kid said last night words to the effect of he'd done his time, that he had a right to make a living. I thought my head would explode. Reckon it's time for another lesson in pitbulls, with new information about dog fighting and how weaker animals are killed.

297 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:36:50am

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thank you for the kind words.

298 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:37:46am

and the next thing, VIC will become a superstar within two years

299 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:38:17am

re: #294 BatGuano

Mandy, are talking about the mentally ill guy in the standoff in L.A?

Yep.

I hope he's in a safe and secure place, getting the medical attention he needs and not in a freakin' jail.

300 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:38:52am

re: #293 3 wood

Just out of curiosity, how will this affect banks in the Great white north? I remember somebody telling me awhile back that Canadian banks tended to be more cautious (i.e. 'boring') than their counterparts in the USA but that actually has been to their benefit since about a year ago...

/Altho'- speaking of evaluating risk- didn't Vick default on a multimillion $$$ loan from RBC?

301 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:39:26am

re: #296 MandyManners

Also, no one has a "right" to play professional sports. No franchise is bound to sign the guy or even talk to him.

He could work at Walmart for a living too.

302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:39:34am

re: #289 3 wood

Seriously, I'm guessing they ran him through a pretty exhaustive work out... Two years in prison, (I'm guessing with extensive work-out privileges) his strength and speed are probably as good as ever.

Dungy has been working with him pretty hard. I truly respect Tony Dungy. I don't think he would have wasted his time.

As a Cowboys fan, I can't say I wish him the best of luck...

303 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:40:32am

re: #295 3 wood

Commodities like gold from South Africa or silver from Mexico?

304 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:41:15am

re: #299 MandyManners

Yep.

I hope he's in a safe and secure place, getting the medical attention he needs and not in a freakin' jail.

I know what you mean. I followed it at work on lgf but was unable to comment, which might be a good thing. He was not evil, he needed help and I hope he gets it.

305 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:42:20am

re: #301 3 wood

Also, no one has a "right" to play professional sports. No franchise is bound to sign the guy or even talk to him.

He could work at Walmart for a living too.

Ah. Another tool for my lesson.

The Kid has about 25 Webkins so I might use those as a starting point. "Hey, Kid. How would you like Sparky* to killed and partly eaten by a pit bull?"

*Sparky is the name of one of his Webkin chihuahua.

306 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:43:20am

re: #299 MandyManners

Yep.

I hope he's in a safe and secure place, getting the medical attention he needs and not in a freakin' jail.

I missed all that here. Do we know the story? I assumed he was a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his meds or was being inadequately medicated in some way.

307 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:43:58am

re: #300 Fenway_Nation

Just out of curiosity, how will this affect banks in the Great white north? I remember somebody telling me awhile back that Canadian banks tended to be more cautious (i.e. 'boring') than their counterparts in the USA but that actually has been to their benefit since about a year ago...


As toxic assets start pulling banks under, it's bad for banks all around as the entire system loses the trust of the public.


This is what I was talking about a few days back, about treasures keeping their money in cash instead of investing it cause they just don't yet trust the banking system. It's easy to move money out of a money market account, not quite so easy to cash in a CD or other fixed income instrument if you think your bank is about to go belly up. I got criticized by some here, but it turns out that I knew what I was talking about.

308 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:44:52am

re: #303 Fenway_Nation

Commodities like gold from South Africa or silver from Mexico?

No commodities like our grain, our pork and so forth.

309 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:45:52am

re: #306 iceweasel

That is what I know at this point.

310 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:46:34am

re: #290 MandyManners

I agree with that but, I feel at times as if the whole movement is being mocked. I know I'm wrong about that but, it still puts sand in my shorts. It's my problem, though.

Right now- I'm embarrassed by my fellow conservatives (not that I call them that). Perhaps when they return to acting like adults, the mockery you feel you're seeing will lighten up if not go away.

311 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:46:59am

re: #306 iceweasel

I missed all that here. Do we know the story? I assumed he was a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his meds or was being inadequately medicated in some way.

It's on the front page, "Standoff in L.A.".

I'm guessing P.-S. or a severe form of BPD on the manic up-swing with a dose of delusion.

312 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:47:29am

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Seriously, I'm guessing they ran him through a pretty exhaustive work out... Two years in prison, (I'm guessing with extensive work-out privileges) his strength and speed are probably as good as ever.

I'm sure they did. But Vick was never a good passer and he can't read defenses. His value was in his ability to scramble and create broken plays. You don't know if he still has that ability till you see him play under real live action.

It's like the difference of hitting batting practice vs. live pitching with 90 mph sliders on the outside corner.

313 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:47:37am

re: #310 Sharmuta

Right now- I'm embarrassed by my fellow conservatives (not that I call them that). Perhaps when they return to acting like adults, the mockery you feel you're seeing will lighten up if not go away.

All conservatives or just a handful?

314 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:50:26am

re: #313 MandyManners

All conservatives or just a handful?

Too many.

315 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:51:08am

re: #313 MandyManners

All conservatives or just a handful?

Very calm and respectful meeting here in Baton Rouge last night.

Thought I'd just put this out there. It can happen.

316 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:51:15am

re: #311 MandyManners

It's on the front page, "Standoff in L.A.".

I'm guessing P.-S. or a severe form of BPD on the manic up-swing with a dose of delusion.

Yeah, I saw it there, but I haven't read the comments or looked for the story elsewhere, so I don't know any more than that post.

Could be wrong diagnoses/inadequate medication too. If anti-psychotics are prescribed to someone who isn't psychotic, they'll actually induce psychosis and delusions in the patient. Scary.

317 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:51:50am

re: #312 3 wood

1.2 mil the first year. That surprised me.

318 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:54:39am

By the way folks, just when we thought the nerds at FASB had learned their lesson about mark to market, here they come back again, trying to prove they were right all along.

Now they basically want to reinstate the rule through the back door, by requiring that assets be valued to the market constantly, instead of every reporting period.

They had a piece on this last night on Kudlow. It would end up requiring banks go from being 5% capitalized or to to 30%, which would in effect put them into default and would evaporate their capital overnight.

It's still in the proposal stage, but I'll keep an eye on this.

319 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:54:52am

re: #314 Sharmuta

Too many.

How many town hall meetings have no fireworks?

320 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:55:36am

re: #315 reine.de.tout

Very calm and respectful meeting here in Baton Rouge last night.

Thought I'd just put this out there. It can happen.

I bet that doesn't get noticed by the MFM.

321 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:55:46am

re: #312 3 wood

I'm sure they did. But Vick was never a good passer and he can't read defenses. His value was in his ability to scramble and create broken plays. You don't know if he still has that ability till you see him play under real live action.

It's like the difference of hitting batting practice vs. live pitching with 90 mph sliders on the outside corner.

Vick worked in a High School system. Put the best athlete as quarterback and let him run the ball. If he sees an open receiver, fine. This doesn't work in pro football, even though Vick was an exciting player. I would like to see him line up against pit bulls who have been abused and see how he fairs.

322 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:56:04am

re: #318 3 wood

By the way folks, just when we thought the nerds at FASB had learned their lesson about mark to market, here they come back again, trying to prove they were right all along.

Now they basically want to reinstate the rule through the back door, by requiring that assets be valued to the market constantly, instead of every reporting period.

They had a piece on this last night on Kudlow. It would end up requiring banks go from being 5% capitalized or to to 30%, which would in effect put them into default and would evaporate their capital overnight.

It's still in the proposal stage, but I'll keep an eye on this.


who 3, any of the names we are familiar with here?

323 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:56:16am

re: #316 iceweasel

Yeah, I saw it there, but I haven't read the comments or looked for the story elsewhere, so I don't know any more than that post.

Could be wrong diagnoses/inadequate medication too. If anti-psychotics are prescribed to someone who isn't psychotic, they'll actually induce psychosis and delusions in the patient. Scary.

The neighbors said he's like this only when he goes off his meds.

324 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:56:37am

bbiab

325 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:56:51am

re: #317 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

1.2 mil the first year. That surprised me.

Football money is not guaranteed. How much of it was up front bonus? Very little I would expect.

326 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:57:10am

re: #320 MandyManners

I bet that doesn't get noticed by the MFM.

I would bet so too. It's not news when essentially nothing happens.

327 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:58:23am

re: #322 apachegunner

who 3, any of the names we are familiar with here?

I don't think I understand the question.

This would apply to all banks and financial institutions.

328 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:58:40am

Got to head out to work. Later.

329 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 4:59:34am

Gonna grab me some shuteye, lizards..

'nite/'morning!

330 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:00:04am

re: #327 3 wood

I don't think I understand the question.

who particularly is behind such a thing, any one person, or two? or is it just generally being talked about in committee or something.

331 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:00:04am

re: #328 3 wood

Good night, 3wood.

332 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:00:58am

re: #329 Fenway_Nation

Gonna grab me some shuteye, lizards..

'nite/'morning!

Goodnight, Fenway,

333 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:02:21am

re: #316 iceweasel

Could be wrong diagnoses/inadequate medication too. If anti-psychotics are prescribed to someone who isn't psychotic, they'll actually induce psychosis and delusions in the patient. Scary.

Like the commercials for A-D's that caution they may induce thoughts of suicide? I always thought that sounded like a bad SNL skit.

334 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:03:01am

Good morning all. How's the blog battle today? Anything I should watch out for?

/hate stepping on landmines.

335 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:04:03am

re: #334 BlueCanuck

Sounds like you're cool unless you really want to stick up for Michael Vick.

336 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:04:12am

re: #326 reine.de.tout

I would bet so too. It's not news when essentially nothing happens.

If it bleeds it leads.

Well, unless the news is about Code Pink or ANSWER.

337 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:05:36am

FCBBHO might get a bit of heat today in Montana because the tickets are for sale on a first-come, first-served basis. I wonder if a bus-load of SEIU members showed up this morning.

338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:05:42am

re: #335 Spenser (with an S)

Sounds like you're cool unless you really want to stick up for Michael Vick.

Can't wait to see how politically left leaning people react to Michael Vick's return to football. Those who don't think that felons should be punished after they serve their time, seem to be unhappy with Michael finding employment after he did his time.

339 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:05:53am

re: #334 BlueCanuck

How's the blog battle today? Anything I should watch out for?

Ducks carrying pitch forks.

/see upstream

340 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:06:45am

re: #300 Fenway_Nation

Well a few defaults like that are the exception instead of the norm. Our housing situation wasn't like the states at all. At the craziest it got, you just needed 5% down for a house. If you had good credit, if you had a stable job. Otherwise you needed up to 20% down. Our banking system has been very stable. There are a few other financial institutions that will loan to high risk clients, the intrest though is akin to credit cards.

341 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:07:17am

re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can't wait to see how politically left leaning people react to Michael Vick's return to football. Those who don't think that felons should be punished after they serve their time, seem to be unhappy with Michael finding employment after he did his time.

I lean to the left? Gee. Maybe I should put some rocks in my right-side pocket when I put on my shorts.

342 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:07:27am

errr, let it be known i am not sticking up for vic. it was me who earlier this week said he'd be in the NFL by the end of the week. the NFL is all about money, very little about feel good things. i also say he will be a starter, in one position or the other, sometime during the season. i wish my team had gotten him and i don't look forward to my team playing against him.

343 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:07:42am

oops

344 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:07:48am

re: #339 freetoken

Ducks carrying pitch forks.

/see upstream

??? Is that a Monty Python mash up?

/checked out some of the earlier stuff this morning before leaving for work.

345 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:08:09am

re: #337 MandyManners

FCBBHO might get a bit of heat today in Montana because the tickets are for sale on a first-come, first-served basis. I wonder if a bus-load of SEIU members showed up this morning.


they are the ones delivering the tickets i bet

346 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:08:26am

re: #333 Spenser (with an S)

Like the commercials for A-D's that caution they may induce thoughts of suicide? I always thought that sounded like a bad SNL skit.

Damn, I know some cartoon did a riff on those...Family Guy, maybe?

Anyway-- yeah, I know that anti-psychotics will induce psychosis and delusions in the non-psychotic. So taking your meds in that instance will literally make you crazier.

But the usual problem is people taking their medication sporadically, or going off it altogether. Lots of the meds have unpleasant side-effects, and it's common for bi-polar people especially to feel like they're 'not themselves' on the medication. They miss the upswing of the manic cycle, usually. That's my understanding.

347 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:08:31am

re: #341 MandyManners

I lean to the left? Gee. Maybe I should put some rocks in my right-side pocket when I put on my shorts.

Wasn't talking about you, silly goose. You're the most consistent human I've ever not met.

348 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:10:53am

re: #345 apachegunner

they are the ones delivering the tickets i bet

Idle speculation or do you know something we don't know?

349 BatGuano  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:11:00am

Good night, everyone.

350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:11:44am

Mandy, I was talking about the people who want felons to have the right to vote. The people who think the released child rapist has value and deserves the right to live next to the day-care center.

Their heads will explode over Vick having a chance to make NFL money again. I think they are being intellectually dishonest.

That's what I meant.

On the bright side? Any protesters at a Philly game are going to have the shit kicked out of them.

351 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:12:41am

re: #344 BlueCanuck

Start reading at comment #217

352 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:12:51am

re: #347 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wasn't talking about you, silly goose. You're the most consistent human I've ever not met.

Are you saying a hobgoblin invaded my small mind?

*snicker*

353 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:13:01am

re: #348 MandyManners

Idle speculation or do you know something we don't know?


sorry mandy, forgot to insert "prolly"

354 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:13:04am

re: #349 BatGuano

'night BG...

355 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:13:57am

re: #346 iceweasel

Was dating a girl that was bi-polar. Real nice and real smart. Her problems were numerous with the medications she had to take. She was very creative literally and some medication that allowed her to function cut off her creative juices. She was at times unable to write a simple essay for university. Other medications that didn't do that impacted her renal system. Haven't seen her for several years now. I hope she's okay. A mind that brilliant would be a terrible thing to lose.

356 jamgarr  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:14:06am

Geraldo!!! What a tool!!!

357 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:14:59am

re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Mandy, I was talking about the people who want felons to have the right to vote. The people who think the released child rapist has value and deserves the right to live next to the day-care center.

Their heads will explode over Vick having a chance to make NFL money again. I think they are being intellectually dishonest.

That's what I meant.

On the bright side? Any protesters at a Philly game are going to have the shit kicked out of them.

As 3wood pointed out, he can work at Wal*Mart. The NFL was not obligated to let him back.

If I lived in Philly, I'd be out there protesting the NFL letting an animal abuser rejoin.

358 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:15:43am

re: #357 MandyManners

Like I said, "You're consistent."

359 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:15:59am

re: #351 freetoken

Ah, okay. Memory refreshed now. :)

360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:16:06am

re: #356 jamgarr

Geraldo!!! What a tool!!!

Gerardo?

361 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:16:31am

re: #356 jamgarr

Geraldo!!! What a tool!!!

It doesn't sound like you're speaking generally. He's on Fox blathering and drooling again?

362 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:17:08am
363 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:17:35am

re: #353 apachegunner

sorry mandy, forgot to insert "prolly"

I thought you knew something we didn't know. What you presented is not all that far-fetched.

Speaking of fetching, I gotta' fetch The Kid to school.

Maybe I'll be in a better mood when I get back.


Youtube Video
364 jamgarr  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:17:38am

re: #361 Spenser (with an S)

It doesn't sound like you're speaking generally. He's on Fox blathering and drooling again?

Yeah! Demanding a grand jury!

365 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:17:57am

re: #321 BatGuano

Vick worked in a High School system. Put the best athlete as quarterback and let him run the ball. If he sees an open receiver, fine. This doesn't work in pro football, even though Vick was an exciting player. I would like to see him line up against pit bulls who have been abused and see how he fairs.

I think he may get some excitement from some Defensive Linemen who happen to be animal lovers. I'm embarrassed he is from my alma mater.

366 jamgarr  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:18:28am

Reeeko Swaaavayyy!

367 opnion  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:19:56am

re: #337 MandyManners

FCBBHO might get a bit of heat today in Montana because the tickets are for sale on a first-come, first-served basis. I wonder if a bus-load of SEIU members showed up this morning.

Probably only available to the Obama Drum & Bugle Club on a first come basis.

368 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:20:38am

re: #355 BlueCanuck

Was dating a girl that was bi-polar. Real nice and real smart. Her problems were numerous with the medications she had to take. She was very creative literally and some medication that allowed her to function cut off her creative juices. She was at times unable to write a simple essay for university. Other medications that didn't do that impacted her renal system. Haven't seen her for several years now. I hope she's okay. A mind that brilliant would be a terrible thing to lose.

That's the kind of scenario I was thinking of...lots of very smart, creative, kind people who struggle with bipolar (and other issues.) For the creative types especially, the loss of the 'upswing' often means a loss in their capacity for creativity-- drawing or painting or writing, or just thinking in creative ways. Plus the manic cycle can mean tremendous bursts of activity for them; they can suddenly get a prodigous amount done in a couple of days or weeks, more than others can get done in a few months. Losing that feels to them like losing most of who they are.

I dated someone with a situation somewhat similar to your girlfriend's. It's very hard for them.

369 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:21:42am

Victor Davis Hanson Grand Slam:
[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

370 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:23:22am
371 opnion  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:25:16am

Did you catch the exchange between Gibbs & Major Garett about people recieving emails from the White House? They were cocerned about how the White House acquired their email adresses.
Gibbs was non-responsive & dismissive.
It looks like the White House is at war with FNC. Is that a good idea?

372 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:26:30am
373 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:27:07am

re: #372 taxfreekiller

"rules for radicals"


right out of Alinsky

374 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:29:37am

re: #355 BlueCanuck

Was dating a girl that was bi-polar. Real nice and real smart. Her problems were numerous with the medications she had to take. She was very creative literally and some medication that allowed her to function cut off her creative juices. She was at times unable to write a simple essay for university. Other medications that didn't do that impacted her renal system. Haven't seen her for several years now. I hope she's okay. A mind that brilliant would be a terrible thing to lose.

What can also happen is the meds they are taking that they are accustomed to stop being effective, and have to be changed, and they don't like the new meds.

A guy who worked at an agency where I was HR Director had just that thing happen to him. He worked for years, no problem. Then his meds became ineffective, and his doctor changed them.

One day he showed up to work wearing nothing but his underwear, claiming that God told him it was OK because it was a hot day. Then he became belligerent when they tried to get him to leave and go home. Very sad situation. This sort of behavior continued, and it became obvious it was not going to stop.

We ended up working with his wife to convince him to retire, rather than doing any sort of "for cause" disciplinary removal.

375 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:30:23am
376 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:31:33am

re: #374 reine.de.tout

Yeah, that was a problem with her as well. Last time I really talked with her, she was looking at going on lithium. Seemed to be the only medication that probably wouldn't impact her health severely.

377 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:32:14am
378 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:35:06am

re: #374 reine.de.tout


A guy who worked at an agency where I was HR Director had just that thing happen to him. He worked for years, no problem. Then his meds became ineffective, and his doctor changed them.

One day he showed up to work wearing nothing but his underwear, claiming that God told him it was OK because it was a hot day. Then he became belligerent when they tried to get him to leave and go home. Very sad situation. This sort of behavior continued, and it became obvious it was not going to stop.

That's so sad!
Another problem when they have to change meds...since these things tinker with neurochemistry, it's very hard to get the right level of dosage, and all changes take weeks anyway. That's one reason why there's usually a stepping up period even for taking an anti-depressant, and a levelling off period for it to get out of your system and before you can start something new.

And as you say-- sometimes they just stop working. There's a lot more that we don't know about the brain than we do, and that applies to this area as well. I feel bad for your co-worker and his family, but it sounds like your company did what it could for him.

379 opnion  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:36:39am

re: #372 taxfreekiller

"rules for radicals"

Yeah, Gibbs mocked him & at one point saying "Don't look funny"
and then dismissed him. It was weird.

380 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:37:23am

re: #369 Taqyia2Me

Victor Davis Hanson Grand Slam:
[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

That article is way off the mark. Orwell was building his case against totalitarianism. He himself was a socialist, closer to Obama than Obama is to Big Brother.

You can always find some semblance of concepts in 1984 to certain practices of almost any government, I've done it here in reference to Obama and his administration.

But Hanson is calling Obama Big Brother. It is evident there is no Big Brother in the book, it is a personification of the totalitarian government in the book. That is the same as calling Obama worst than Stalin. That's a real stretch.

381 rain of lead  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:39:57am

good morning lizards
time for a gorebull warming solar update

no sunspots
there have been no sunspots for 33 days
solar wind output is 310 km/s

382 AuntAcid  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:40:07am

re: #333 Spenser (with an S)

Like the commercials for A-D's that caution they may induce thoughts of suicide? I always thought that sounded like a bad SNL skit.

As it was explained to me, you can be in such a low down funk that you aren't motivated to do much of anything. The meds will get you up to a level where you do have the strength to end it all.

383 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:42:08am

re: #319 MandyManners

How many town hall meetings have no fireworks?

This is above and beyond the town halls, Mandy. It's the nirthers, and paulians, and alex jones and glen beck, and no leadership, and nazis recruiting at tea parties, and no one has the balls to tell Rush he can shut up from time to time, and the creationism, and no one is talking about balancing the budget.

It's a list of things and I'm disappointed because if my party can't pull its head out of its ass, I don't know how we'll stop this administration.

384 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:42:58am

re: #380 Walter L. Newton

That article is way off the mark. Orwell was building his case against totalitarianism. He himself was a socialist, closer to Obama than Obama is to Big Brother.

You can always find some semblance of concepts in 1984 to certain practices of almost any government, I've done it here in reference to Obama and his administration.

But Hanson is calling Obama Big Brother. It is evident there is no Big Brother in the book, it is a personification of the totalitarian government in the book. That is the same as calling Obama worst than Stalin. That's a real stretch.

My take on that is the socialist country tends to end up in a totalitarianistic regime.

385 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:43:22am

last week Barry's administration was beaming while they spun the economic figures, and now, this week, when people are not looking, we get the real story.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A bleak report on retail sales Thursday reinforced a nagging worry of economists: Shoppers won't spend enough to help a recovery take hold.
[snip]
"Even Wal-Mart, which had managed to post robust sales during the recession, reported an unexpected drop in quarterly earnings. The company faulted lower prices for groceries and other products. But it warned that the economy is also still forcing customers to scale back their purchases."
[snip]
"Meanwhile, the number of newly laid-off workers seeking jobless benefits for the first time rose last week, the government said, in another sign of a weak job market. And for those who still have jobs, fear of losing them can cause them to spend less."
[snip]
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

Interesting in the first sentence in the article, it's our fault, we are not spending enough.

386 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:44:22am

re: #381 rain of lead

Changing Sun, Changing Climate?

387 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:44:33am

re: #381 rain of lead

good morning lizards
time for a gorebull warming solar update

no sunspots
there have been no sunspots for 33 days
solar wind output is 310 km/s

wow! great site. Thanks! that goes to favorites.

388 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:45:25am

OT: health care reform is basically dead.

Nate Silver reporting from Netroots Nation.

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

389 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:45:36am

re: #385 Walter L. Newton

Interesting in the first sentence in the article, it's our fault, we are not spending enough.

Hey, I am doing my part. Got the part I needed from E-bay yesterday, purchased from a person in the states. Looking at shipping through USPS, so I just injected $45 USD into your economy. :)

390 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:46:18am

re: #384 Taqyia2Me

My take on that is the socialist country tends to end up in a totalitarianistic regime.

Really? Let's look at a list of socialistic countries. Britain (for over 150 years), Germany, France, actually most of western Europe.

Please tell me about a country that went from socialism to totalitarianism? That's a very serious charge.

391 lincolntf  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:46:40am

Morning all.

Any Philadelphia Eagles fans in the house?

392 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:47:32am

re: #381 rain of lead

good morning lizards
time for a gorebull warming solar update

no sunspots
there have been no sunspots for 33 days
solar wind output is 310 km/s

Yikes! How great is that? Thanks

393 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:49:47am

re: #388 iceweasel

OT: health care reform is basically dead.

Nate Silver reporting from Netroots Nation.

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

Here's an interesting comment on that article:

Ryan McCarthy said...
What really matters is that we all recognize that 2009 is just a stepping stone. We'll get a real health care system instead of this institutionalized extortion that we have now. It won't be this year, but this year we're going to start moving towards it.

If I'm reading that right, he seems to think this entire brouhaha will be an impetus for some sort of change to begin being made.

394 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:50:08am

re: #389 BlueCanuck

Hey, I am doing my part. Got the part I needed from E-bay yesterday, purchased from a person in the states. Looking at shipping through USPS, so I just injected $45 USD into your economy. :)

Thank you for your contribution :)

395 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:50:50am

Good morning

Anyone notice Sarah Palins reponse to her critics on the "death panels"??


Yesterday President Obama responded to my statement that Democratic health care proposals would lead to rationed care; that the sick, the elderly, and the disabled would suffer the most under such rationing; and that under such a system these “unproductive” members of society could face the prospect of government bureaucrats determining whether they deserve health care.

The President made light of these concerns. He said:

“Let me just be specific about some things that I’ve been hearing lately that we just need to dispose of here. The rumor that’s been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we’ve decided that we don’t, it’s too expensive to let her live anymore...It turns out that I guess this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, etc. So the intention of the members of Congress was to give people more information so that they could handle issues of end-of-life care when they’re ready on their own terms. It wasn’t forcing anybody to do anything.” [1]

The provision that President Obama refers to is Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” [2] With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]

Now put this in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.” [5] Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care? As Charles Lane notes in the Washington Post, Section 1233 “addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones... If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?” [6]

396 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:52:23am

whoops the link to the whole thing

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

397 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:53:36am

re: #379 opnion

Yeah, Gibbs mocked him & at one point saying "Don't look funny"
and then dismissed him. It was weird.

I don't have blinders on re: Fox News. They are running toward tabloid, they have some have some disturbing associations (hannity with uncle pat b., the judge with alex jones) and some crazy left-wingers like shep and geraldo.

That being said, I remember never seeing my pov on a news show and I didn't like it. Besides being delicious, Megyn Kelly seems to be one of the few journalists who knows how to ask a follow-up question.

398 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:53:46am

re: #393 reine.de.tout

We could use real reform. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being honest. I don't think Americans have a problem discussing this issue- a lot of it is that we don't like the speed with which this legislation is moving. Maybe something could get done later, in a year or two, but I think we have to have a longer, more civil national discussion before it can happen.

399 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:54:16am

"The President made light of these concerns" just as the entire democrat party has made light of the concerns of the people of this country..and the people themselves.

400 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:54:21am

re: #382 AuntAcid

As it was explained to me, you can be in such a low down funk that you aren't motivated to do much of anything. The meds will get you up to a level where you do have the strength to end it all.

Right. But also, the depressive often already has thoughts about suicide, before he gets the medication, but he hasn't moved into suicidal ideation. So he'll have thoughts like "I wish I were dead" or "Everyone would be happier if I weren't around", or even ideas about how to kill himself...but that's still a far cry from suicidal ideation, where they're planning means and methods and actually taking steps. (Buying the gun, the rope, stockpiling the pills, giving away possessions).

In some people, especially teenagers, taking anti-depressants has the opposite of the intended effect on their brian chemistry (just like taking anti-psychotics if you're not a psychotic makes you psychotic). So the depressive fixation on the idea of suicide kind of speeds up and intensifies.

That's why there have been lawsuits about some of this and why there are those warnings-- especially when prescribed for adolescents.

401 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:54:34am

re: #395 quiet man

We only had a whole thread on it.

402 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:54:54am

re: #388 iceweasel

OT: health care reform is basically dead.

Nate Silver reporting from Netroots Nation.

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

You know what's most interesting about that article?

No, not that he pontificates that this particular health care proposal is dead. I didn't need Nate Silver to tell me that.

What is most interesting is that I have been told here on LGF that Nate Silver is very fair in his taking apart of polls, and that he is always correct.

Well, first of all, the opening paragraph of this article removes any doubt that he has a non-partisan point of view...

"I hate to say it, but I'm generally feeling a less optimistic about health care after having some smart conversations today with some very smart people here in beautiful (not kidding!) Pittsburgh, where I'm here for the next couple of days for Netroots Nation."

That's a real fair polling analyst.

From Nate's mouth to us. The next time anyone say's Nate is a fiar reporter of the facts, RUN!

403 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:55:20am

re: #401 Sharmuta

re: #395 quiet man

We only had a whole thread on it.


I didnt see her response in there..could have been after I left, was it??

404 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:55:28am

re: #398 Sharmuta

We could use real reform. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being honest. I don't think Americans have a problem discussing this issue- a lot of it is that we don't like the speed with which this legislation is moving. Maybe something could get done later, in a year or two, but I think we have to have a longer, more civil national discussion before it can happen.

yes. I think you are correct. This was put together too quickly; the attempt to get it through Congress was too fast; people want to know what's happening, particularly when it's something this big with such far-reaching effects. I think that was underestimated by our elected representatives.

405 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:56:40am

re: #404 reine.de.tout
Obama did say he would get more people invovled in politics..

gotta give him that one..he sure did...Being pissed is being involved.

406 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:57:10am

re: #395 quiet man

Good morning

Anyone notice Sarah Palins reponse to her critics on the "death panels"??

Yesterday President Obama responded to my statement that Democratic health care proposals would lead to rationed care; that the sick, the elderly, and the disabled would suffer the most under such rationing; and that under such a system these “unproductive” members of society could face the prospect of government bureaucrats determining whether they deserve health care.

The President made light of these concerns. He said:

“Let me just be specific about some things that I’ve been hearing lately that we just need to dispose of here. The rumor that’s been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we’ve decided that we don’t, it’s too expensive to let her live anymore...It turns out that I guess this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, etc. So the intention of the members of Congress was to give people more information so that they could handle issues of end-of-life care when they’re ready on their own terms. It wasn’t forcing anybody to do anything.” [1]

The provision that President Obama refers to is Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” [2] With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]

Now put this in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.” [5] Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care? As Charles Lane notes in the Washington Post, Section 1233 “addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones... If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?” [6]

And her use of "death panel" was pure hyperbole and designed to scare.

The rest of her insight into the language of the proposals is spot on.

Results, it's history.

407 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:57:14am

re: #390 Walter L. Newton

Really? Let's look at a list of socialistic countries. Britain (for over 150 years), Germany, France, actually most of western Europe.

Please tell me about a country that went from socialism to totalitarianism? That's a very serious charge.

U.S.S.R., Cuba, NorK. Do those count?

408 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:57:16am

re: #405 quiet man

Obama did say he would get more people invovled in politics..

gotta give him that one..he sure did...Being pissed is being involved.

Be careful what you wish for...

409 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:58:24am

re: #390 Walter L. Newton

Really? Let's look at a list of socialistic countries. Britain (for over 150 years), Germany, France, actually most of western Europe.

Please tell me about a country that went from socialism to totalitarianism? That's a very serious charge.

Red China
Cuba

410 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:59:27am

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

re: #395 quiet man


And her use of "death panel" was pure hyperbole and designed to scare.

The rest of her insight into the language of the proposals is spot on.

Results, it's history.


Maybe it was...Same as much of what Obama is doing with his thugs misdirections, and out right lies. Palins mischaracterization is mild compared to Obamas and his ilk.

411 lincolntf  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:59:43am

re: #404 reine.de.tout

Also, the insistence on the part of the Left that we're in a health care "crisis" despite the huge majority of Americans that already have health insurance hurt them badly. They won't be able to play that card next time.

412 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:59:59am

re: #408 DrNaughty

re: #405 quiet man


Be careful what you wish for...


I never wished for Obama..that is for sure. I doubt anyone really did.

413 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:00:00am

re: #404 reine.de.tout

yes. I think you are correct. This was put together too quickly; the attempt to get it through Congress was too fast; people want to know what's happening, particularly when it's something this big with such far-reaching effects. I think that was underestimated by our elected representatives.

Just think, after this health care disaster, followed by cap and tax and the union's card check, which I understand is making a comeback with things even worse, how long do you suppose until we truly become tired of all this shit and what will the repercussions might be.

414 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:00:30am

re: #404 reine.de.tout

yes. I think you are correct. This was put together too quickly; the attempt to get it through Congress was too fast; people want to know what's happening, particularly when it's something this big with such far-reaching effects. I think that was underestimated by our elected representatives.

I would start with town halls designed to talk about the issues and get feedback before any legislation was written.

415 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:00:30am

re: #398 Sharmuta

We could use real reform. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being honest.

Granted the system is in big trouble. We need portability and tort reform as two big first steps. This whole tying of health care to your job is a relatively new and, when you think about it, kind of strange (and cruel) concept. "So, I'm sorry we're going to have to let you go and by the way, your health-care stops tonight"

/almost verbatim statement to me from Feb.

416 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:00:48am

re: #412 quiet man

I never wished for Obama..that is for sure. I doubt anyone really did.

You have not met the faculty at the high school I teach at.

417 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:01:19am

re: #402 Walter L. Newton

You know what's most interesting about that article?

No, not that he pontificates that this particular health care proposal is dead. I didn't need Nate Silver to tell me that.

What is most interesting is that I have been told here on LGF that Nate Silver is very fair in his taking apart of polls, and that he is always correct.

Well, first of all, the opening paragraph of this article removes any doubt that he has a non-partisan point of view...

"I hate to say it, but I'm generally feeling a less optimistic about health care after having some smart conversations today with some very smart people here in beautiful (not kidding!) Pittsburgh, where I'm here for the next couple of days for Netroots Nation."

That's a real fair polling analyst.

From Nate's mouth to us. The next time anyone say's Nate is a fiar reporter of the facts, RUN!

Walter, a person who is a professional can separate personal opinions from objective analysis.

Of course Nate has a personal point of view. Everyone does.
He's also the best polling analyst out there.

418 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:01:54am

re: #411 lincolntf

re: #404 reine.de.tout

Also, the insistence on the part of the Left that we're in a health care "crisis" despite the huge majority of Americans that already have health insurance hurt them badly. They won't be able to play that card next time.


Which was designed only to scare people into a stampede.. we see that time and time again from the left

419 FrogMarch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:02:05am

Good morning all.

420 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:02:12am

re: #400 iceweasel

Right. But also, the depressive often already has thoughts about suicide, before he gets the medication, but he hasn't moved into suicidal ideation. So he'll have thoughts like "I wish I were dead" or "Everyone would be happier if I weren't around", or even ideas about how to kill himself...but that's still a far cry from suicidal ideation, where they're planning means and methods and actually taking steps. (Buying the gun, the rope, stockpiling the pills, giving away possessions).

In some people, especially teenagers, taking anti-depressants has the opposite of the intended effect on their brian chemistry (just like taking anti-psychotics if you're not a psychotic makes you psychotic). So the depressive fixation on the idea of suicide kind of speeds up and intensifies.

That's why there have been lawsuits about some of this and why there are those warnings-- especially when prescribed for adolescents.

I discovered, from an experience of an acquaintance of mine, that teens are frequently misdiagnosed and given antidepressive drugs when the real problem is something else. And that combination of things, failure to treat the real problem and improper treatment for a non-existent depression, causes a lot of brain-chemistry problems in teens that would not necessarily be created in an adult.

421 rain of lead  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:02:23am

re: #386 Sharmuta

re: #387 Spider Mensch

re: #392 apachegunner

this has become an interesting topic for me that started when the solar activity began declining and solar cycle 24 refused to start on "time"
then the scientists said things will start getting more active "any minute
now"

but the sun keeps on doing what it wants.

422 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:02:47am

re: #416 Gang of One

re: #412 quiet man


You have not met the faculty at the high school I teach at.

wackademia at it;s best, right?? typical.

423 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:03:10am

re: #419 FrogMarch

hello and howdy, pard

424 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:03:15am

re: #407 Gang of One

U.S.S.R., Cuba, NorK. Do those count?

They were not practicing socialism before they became what they are currently (or in the case of USSR, the past). Cuba and North Korea are communist, the USSR went from Czarist autocracy to communism, from communism to totalitarianism. They had some socialist in government for about 6 months before that.

Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

425 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:04:19am

re: #414 Sharmuta

I would start with town halls designed to talk about the issues and get feedback before any legislation was written.

too bad there isn't a constitutional way for the nation to just vote on it.

426 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:04:23am

re: #422 quiet man

wackademia at it;s best, right?? typical.

Not mention nauseating. But there are a few who were expressing buyer's remorse by the end of May.

427 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:04:37am

re: #420 reine.de.tout

I discovered, from an experience of an acquaintance of mine, that teens are frequently misdiagnosed and given antidepressive drugs when the real problem is something else. And that combination of things, failure to treat the real problem and improper treatment for a non-existent depression, causes a lot of brain-chemistry problems in teens that would not necessarily be created in an adult.

Nothing gets me more worked up than kids getting put on these drugs. Gee- a depressed teenager? Whoever heard of such a thing?!

There was a study not too long ago that brain chemistry is different in our teen years than it is in adulthood, and these drugs are meant for adults. Kids should not be on these drugs.

428 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:05:11am

re: #424 Walter L. Newton

They were not practicing socialism before they became what they are currently (or in the case of USSR, the past). Cuba and North Korea are communist, the USSR went from Czarist autocracy to communism, from communism to totalitarianism. They had some socialist in government for about 6 months before that.

Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

Point taken.

429 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:05:14am

re: #414 Sharmuta

I would start with town halls designed to talk about the issues and get feedback before any legislation was written.

Yes, I was just thinking that.

ArmyWife made a comment the other day: First, decide and define and describe what the problems are, and what the "ideal" situation would look like, then figure out how to get there. Lay out each problem by itself, independently of "they system". And take comments and develop solutions from there, rather than just putting together a huge and complicated and confusing piece of legislation that is supposed to somehow fix things that need to be fixed, and change things that are working OK.

That would be a good start.

430 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:05:43am

re: #424 Walter L. Newton

They were not practicing socialism before they became what they are currently (or in the case of USSR, the past). Cuba and North Korea are communist, the USSR went from Czarist autocracy to communism, from communism to totalitarianism. They had some socialist in government for about 6 months before that.

Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

Socialism is an economic system
Totalitarianism is a political sysem

Just like Ethel and Lucy; Dean & Jerry. they go hand in hand with each other...

431 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:05:54am

re: #404 reine.de.tout

yes. I think you are correct. This was put together too quickly; the attempt to get it through Congress was too fast; people want to know what's happening, particularly when it's something this big with such far-reaching effects. I think that was underestimated by our elected representatives.

There have been committees and panels on health care reform for 16 continuous years.

Even McCain promised health care reform.

It doesn't matter, ultimately. It's dead, partly for the reasons Nate Silver mentioned, partly for others. The deal Obama cut with big Pharma, for one. I heard about it last week and knew it was true, although the proof didn't pop up til yesterday.
Also, look at how they've caved on the end of life provisions.

Pretty much over. Whatever we get is going to be nothing, basically. Look for the public option to be canned too.

432 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:06:25am

re: #424 Walter L. Newton

They were not practicing socialism before they became what they are currently (or in the case of USSR, the past). Cuba and North Korea are communist, the USSR went from Czarist autocracy to communism, from communism to totalitarianism. They had some socialist in government for about 6 months before that.

Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

It does lead to statism, a malady our European friends are suffering from in a big way. When the populace starts looking to the state for all their answers and solutions, it is never a good thing.

433 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:07:09am

re: #429 reine.de.tout

Yes, I was just thinking that.

ArmyWife made a comment the other day: First, decide and define and describe what the problems are, and what the "ideal" situation would look like, then figure out how to get there. Lay out each problem by itself, independently of "they system". And take comments and develop solutions from there, rather than just putting together a huge and complicated and confusing piece of legislation that is supposed to somehow fix things that need to be fixed, and change things that are working OK.

That would be a good start.


yes, and keep it under 100 pages too!

434 lincolntf  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:07:55am

Come on, somebody in here has got to be from Philly...I want a first-hand reaction to Michael Vick becoming an Eagle.
ESPN is reporting that the City is 2-to-1 against the Vick signing and one of the local papers ran the headline "Hide your dogs" this morning.

435 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:08:07am

re: #431 iceweasel

There have been committees and panels on health care reform for 16 continuous years.

Even McCain promised health care reform.

It doesn't matter, ultimately. It's dead, partly for the reasons Nate Silver mentioned, partly for others. The deal Obama cut with big Pharma, for one. I heard about it last week and knew it was true, although the proof didn't pop up til yesterday.
Also, look at how they've caved on the end of life provisions.

Pretty much over. Whatever we get is going to be nothing, basically. Look for the public option to be canned too.

We all want changes in the way we pay and obtain health care, which are driven by the cost of it.

We do not want the current system destroyed and replaced by Government being our mother and father however...

436 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:08:50am

re: #434 lincolntf

Come on, somebody in here has got to be from Philly...I want a first-hand reaction to Michael Vick becoming an Eagle.
ESPN is reporting that the City is 2-to-1 against the Vick signing and one of the local papers ran the headline "Hide your dogs" this morning.

Everyone deserves a 2d chance. Vick has been to jail and paid his fines.

437 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:08:56am

re: #435 DrNaughty

We all want changes in the way we pay and obtain health care, which are driven by the cost of it.

We do not want the current system destroyed and replaced by Government being our mother and father however...

Tort reform.

438 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:09:04am

re: #427 Sharmuta

Nothing gets me more worked up than kids getting put on these drugs. Gee- a depressed teenager? Whoever heard of such a thing?!

There was a study not too long ago that brain chemistry is different in our teen years than it is in adulthood, and these drugs are meant for adults. Kids should not be on these drugs.

ABSOLUTELY!

439 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:09:21am

re: #434 lincolntf

Come on, somebody in here has got to be from Philly...I want a first-hand reaction to Michael Vick becoming an Eagle.
ESPN is reporting that the City is 2-to-1 against the Vick signing and one of the local papers ran the headline "Hide your dogs" this morning.


that will change in a heartbeat, just let Vic do something go and they will forget all about the dawgs. Betcha!

440 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:09:25am

re: #424 Walter L. Newton

Another example of a socialist country is Canada. Our system has been fairly socialist for decades. Of course we have that huge republic to our south that helps to moderate our politics somewhat...

441 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:09:50am

re: #431 iceweasel

There have been committees and panels on health care reform for 16 continuous years.

Maybe it's time for a new approach. It shouldn't take 16 years to get tort reform.

442 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:10:03am

re: #436 DrNaughty

Everyone deserves a 2d chance. Vick has been to jail and paid his fines.

I agree. Let's see if he going to take this chance to redeem himself.

443 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:10:03am

go = good

444 Erik The Red  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:10:13am

re: #434 lincolntf

Come on, somebody in here has got to be from Philly...I want a first-hand reaction to Michael Vick becoming an Eagle.
ESPN is reporting that the City is 2-to-1 against the Vick signing and one of the local papers ran the headline "Hide your dogs" this morning.

Give him one season and let him win a few games and all will be forgotten/forgiven. :(

Good Morning Lizards. :))

445 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:10:33am

Hmmm, seems these "mobs" are having the desired effect, who would have thunk it.


Two freshly elected Democrats are wavering in their support of healthcare reform, as a rancorous summer series of “town hall” debates appears to be ­hardening opposition against the Obama administration.

446 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:10:51am

re: #441 Sharmuta

Maybe it's time for a new approach. It shouldn't take 16 years to get tort reform.


bet we don't hear congress or the pres mention that before they are voted out

447 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:11:15am

re: #438 reine.de.tout

brain chemistry is different in our teen years than it is in adulthood

I hope that study didn't take more than a few hours.

//

448 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:11:32am

re: #427 Sharmuta

re: #420 reine.de.tout

I discovered, from an experience of an acquaintance of mine, that teens are frequently misdiagnosed and given antidepressive drugs when the real problem is something else. And that combination of things, failure to treat the real problem and improper treatment for a non-existent depression, causes a lot of brain-chemistry problems in teens that would not necessarily be created in an adult.

Agree with you both. Accords with various things I've learned as well.

Teens especially are always being misdiagnosed and the solution for everything now, including kids, is to medicate them. Half of them don't need what they're on. Don't get me wrong, there definitely are kids with ADD and ADHD, and teenagers with bipolar or BPD or clinical depression, and they need and are helped by proper medication and treatment...but a lot of kids are being given pills they don't need for conditions they don't have.

Conversely, I also know at least one (liberal) parent who resolutely refuses to give his kid any meds-- and it's clear that the child desperately needs them.

449 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:11:33am

re: #444 Erik The Red
morning eric

450 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:11:37am

re: #445 filetandrelease

Hmmm, seems these "mobs" are having the desired effect, who would have thunk it.


Two freshly elected Democrats are wavering in their support of healthcare reform, as a rancorous summer series of “town hall” debates appears to be ­hardening opposition against the Obama administration.

ITs just some old white unamerican discontents who belong to the KKK

451 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:11:43am

Good morning Erik. How's things going? Everyone settled in?

452 KenJen  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:11:47am

See how easy it is to parallel park the new Ford hybrid. Good morning. It's Friday and I don't have to work this weekend. Yeah!

453 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:11:53am

Krauthammer discusses More Healthcare Nonsense.

In this article, Krauthammer explains why preventive medicine, while good, is not a "free lunch".

454 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:11:54am

re: #441 Sharmuta

Maybe it's time for a new approach. It shouldn't take 16 years to get tort reform.

Tort reform is not going to happen as long as the Trial Lawyers hold so much sway within Democrat circles. In spite of the fact that our "sue, sue, sue" culture is so damaging to society, money talks and BS walks.

455 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:12:38am

re: #441 Sharmuta

Maybe it's time for a new approach. It shouldn't take 16 years to get tort reform.

Tort reform is a pipe dream as long as lawyers write legislation

456 lincolntf  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:13:01am

re: #436 DrNaughty

I agree, I can't think too long about his crimes without losing all perspective and wanting him locked up for life, but the reality is that he's been punished a lot more severely than many who commit their crimes against humans.

I'm interested in how he'll fit in with the team on the field. They already have McNabb, of course, so they didn't need Vick, but they must have big plans for him if they're willing to take the heat for signing him. Receiver? Wildcat QB? Distraction for the defense?

457 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:13:05am

Poor Sarah Palin, she is just an idjit.


Key senators are excluding a provision on end-of-life care from health overhaul legislation after language in a House bill caused a furor.

458 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:13:34am

re: #453 Pianobuff

Krauthammer discusses More Healthcare Nonsense.

In this article, Krauthammer explains why preventive medicine, while good, is not a "free lunch".


thanks, i heard them talking about that article of the radio this a.m. i was going to look for it.

459 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:14:01am

re: #450 quiet man

ITs just some old white unamerican discontents who belong to the KKK


Be quiet man, no one is suppose to know that!

460 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:14:03am

re: #457 filetandrelease

Poor Sarah Palin, she is just an idjit.


Key senators are excluding a provision on end-of-life care from health overhaul legislation after language in a House bill caused a furor.


Actually, she made a response that makes her words exactly correct..she may have used some theatrics, but far less than the Obama spin machine

461 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:14:39am

re: #456 lincolntf

I agree, I can't think too long about his crimes without losing all perspective and wanting him locked up for life, but the reality is that he's been punished a lot more severely than many who commit their crimes against humans.

I'm interested in how he'll fit in with the team on the field. They already have McNabb, of course, so they didn't need Vick, but they must have big plans for him if they're willing to take the heat for signing him. Receiver? Wildcat QB? Distraction for the defense?

Vick was at best at .500 quarterback with the Falcons. McNabb and Reid having an experienced ace in the hole, however, is a good thing..

462 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:14:43am

re: #430 DrNaughty

Socialism is an economic system
Totalitarianism is a political sysem

Just like Ethel and Lucy; Dean & Jerry. they go hand in hand with each other...

You cannot have socialism without government involvement, politics, but socialism is not totalitarianism. This is a common misconception on the terms and concepts. Really, it would take a small essay to explain the differences to you.

And the original statement made above, which I was responding to, was that socialism leads to totalitarianism. Not true.

463 Erik The Red  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:14:43am

re: #451 BlueCanuck

Good morning Erik. How's things going? Everyone settled in?

re: #449 apachegunner

morning eric

Hey Blue and apache. Starting to settle in. The kids start school on Wednesday and then we should be back into a routine and settled in. All I need to do is find a incoming income stream now. I have been enjoying my break. Once the girls start school than my "work" begins.

464 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:14:58am

re: #445 filetandrelease

Yeah- we should behave like moonbats more.


re: #457 filetandrelease

Yeah- we should lie and fear monger more.

/oh brother

465 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:15:05am

I put them upcomments..but here is the link again.

It wasnt in the anti Palin threat before...

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

466 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:15:36am

re: #440 BlueCanuck

Another example of a socialist country is Canada. Our system has been fairly socialist for decades. Of course we have that huge republic to our south that helps to moderate our politics somewhat...

Correct, and it is not leading to Totalitarianism.

467 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:15:45am

Quick quote which comes to my mind when I hear all this talk about govt. healthcare...

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good
of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live
under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may
at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end for they do so with the approval
of their own conscience."

C.S. Lewis

468 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:15:53am

re: #460 quiet man

Actually, she made a response that makes her words exactly correct..she may have used some theatrics, but far less than the Obama spin machine


Yes she did.

469 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:16:07am

re: #463 Erik The Red

Best of luck finding that income stream. I hope your skill set is needed in the current economy.

470 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:16:16am

re: #463 Erik The Red

Hey Blue and apache. Starting to settle in. The kids start school on Wednesday and then we should be back into a routine and settled in. All I need to do is find a incoming income stream now. I have been enjoying my break. Once the girls start school than my "work" begins.


i'll send ya a buck, get ya started.

471 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:16:52am

re: #468 filetandrelease

re: #460 quiet man


Yes she did.

Myself I am glad she did..since a little turnabout is what the left deserve s most in this topic

472 lincolntf  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:17:05am

re: #460 quiet man

All the people squawking about the phrase "death panels" will be the same ones screeching about "thousands dying from back-alley abortions" next election cycle/Judge appointment.
Live by hyperbole, die by hyperbole.

473 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:17:25am

re: #441 Sharmuta

Maybe it's time for a new approach. It shouldn't take 16 years to get tort reform.

We definitely need tort reform but it's only one piece of the puzzle. IMO it's idiotic that it's been off the table.

474 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:18:04am

re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can't wait to see how politically left leaning people react to Michael Vick's return to football. Those who don't think that felons should be punished after they serve their time, seem to be unhappy with Michael finding employment after he did his time.

The former is a government action while an employer's decision to hire is private. Nonetheless, the sentiment you described, seems inconsistent, no doubt. The same could be said of conservatives if this were turned around, i.e., "those who think that felons..."
At any rate, most of the public seem to have inconsistent rules for celebreties and athletes in these situations - either a hang 'em high approach (Martha Stewart) or a make every excuse for them approach (OJ). Persoanally, I'm not sure where I stand on Vick. To me, pitbull fighting is bad enough on its own, the idea of my pug or anyone's dog being stolen for training purposes is something I don't want to even think about. On the other hand, his punishment has been pretty severe and who knows, Vick may have spent sufficient time in prison to contemplate and regret his actions.

475 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:18:09am

re: #466 Walter L. Newton

Correct, and it is not leading to Totalitarianism.

Well, not yet. One good reason is that we have a good amount of people that are very conservative. The liberal/left wingers though try to push more and more socialist schemes down our throats though. Still get hot tempered when discussing Trudeaus military policies that neutered our military.

476 Erik The Red  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:18:10am

re: #469 BlueCanuck

Best of luck finding that income stream. I hope your skill set is needed in the current economy.

So do I :)) My "skill set" is purely entrepreneurial. Just need to find the right investment.

477 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:18:34am

re: #473 iceweasel

We definitely need tort reform but it's only one piece of the puzzle. IMO it's idiotic that it's been off the table.


morning ICE, you know better than that. It will never, ever be on the table.

478 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:18:39am

re: #464 Sharmuta

Yeah- we should behave like moonbats more.


re: #457 filetandrelease

Yeah- we should lie and fear monger more.

/oh brother

I never have mad the moon bat connection. Anger vs conspiricy if you will. And have read Palins comments and can't find the lie's. Fear monger, perhaps. Effective, it seems.

479 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:18:44am

re: #472 lincolntf

All the people squawking about the phrase "death panels" will be the same ones screeching about "thousands dying from back-alley abortions" next election cycle/Judge appointment.
Live by hyperbole, die by hyperbole.

Government has no business involving themselves at the beginning or end of life. That is a major reason why I am NOT a Republican.

480 Erik The Red  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:18:51am

re: #470 apachegunner

i'll send ya a buck, get ya started.

Thanks, will help towards the school fees. :)

481 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:19:32am

re: #475 BlueCanuck

Well, not yet. One good reason is that we have a good amount of people that are very conservative. The liberal/left wingers though try to push more and more socialist schemes down our throats though. Still get hot tempered when discussing Trudeaus military policies that neutered our military.

I just wish we had Tim Hortons here in Atlanta...

482 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:19:42am

re: #475 BlueCanuck

Well, not yet. One good reason is that we have a good amount of people that are very conservative. The liberal/left wingers though try to push more and more socialist schemes down our throats though. Still get hot tempered when discussing Trudeaus military policies that neutered our military.

Socialism does not lead totalitarianism. Please see my above posts. They share some concepts (ie: collectivism) but they are not the same thing.

483 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:19:56am

re: #471 quiet man

Myself I am glad she did..since a little turnabout is what the left deserve s most in this topic

Oh, but that's not playing fair.

Repeat to yourself over and over again:

"Dissent is patriotic, but only when done by committed enlightened progressives against the Judeo-Christo-Fascist Crusader Eurocentric Bourgeois Imperialist Chimpy McHitlerburton Zionazi Clique. Viva la Revolucion!"

I know, it doesn't roll off the tongue easily, but with practice and a lot of psychotropics, you get the hang of it eventually.

484 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:20:15am

re: #463 Erik The Red

All I need to do is find a incoming income stream now. I have been enjoying my break. Once the girls start school than my "work" begins.

God bless you. I've been in a similar boat and am just starting to get my feet set. I've had to create a FT job out of 2.5 PT jobs. Lots of 4am cold-sweats with 4 kids in the house.

485 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:20:49am

re: #471 quiet man

Myself I am glad she did..since a little turnabout is what the left deserve s most in this topic

Speaking of turn-about, brilliant strategist Palin was for the 'death panels' as AK governor.

In recent weeks, right-wing groups have been pushing the myth that health care reform will somehow kill seniors. One of the most high profile voices pushing this lie has been Sarah Palin, who claimed President Obama will institute bureaucratic “death panels.” Today, again on her Facebook page, she continued the attack. Though some Republicans have rebuffed this absurd, inaccurate notion — like Johnny Isakson (R-GA), who called such talk “nuts” — others, like Newt Gingrich, have piled on to agree with Palin.

However, on April 16th 2008, then Gov. Sarah Palin endorsed some of the same end of life counseling she now decries as a form of euthanasia. In a proclamation announcing “Healthcare Decisions Day,” Palin urged public facilities to provide better information about advance directives, and made it clear that it is critical for seniors to be informed of such options

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Thanks in part to her fearmongering, end-of-life counselling is out now. Yay, Palin!

486 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:20:51am

re: #411 lincolntf

Also, the insistence on the part of the Left that we're in a health care "crisis" despite the huge majority of Americans that already have health insurance hurt them badly. They won't be able to play that card next time.

See, you just talked about a health care crisis, then in the next breath you spoke of health insurance.

So which is the problem?
Lack of health care?
Or lack of health insurance?
Or is it both?

The problem is not adequately defined; the term "health care" is thrown around, but the proposed "solutions" always deal with "health insurance", which is something different than health care.

487 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:21:01am

re: #454 Desert Dog

The idea of Congress undertaking Tort Reform is sort of like "Rotweilers against Mauling Toddlers."

488 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:21:11am

re: #482 Walter L. Newton

Socialism does not lead totalitarianism. Please see my above posts. They share some concepts (ie: collectivism) but they are not the same thing.

When it takes the power of government to enforce socialistic policies, it's clearly totalitarianism...

489 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:21:18am

re: #473 iceweasel

Maybe what should be done is study other countries health care systems. We have many examples of national health care schemes to look at. Many have been in operation for decades as well. We have the cost figures, patient figures, and health stats as well. There should be a way to make a better system on other countries errors.

490 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:21:18am

re: #473 iceweasel

We definitely need tort reform but it's only one piece of the puzzle. IMO it's idiotic that it's been off the table.

I agree 100% however given how deeply entrenched the trial lawyers are it will never happen.

491 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:21:27am

re: #427 Sharmuta

Nothing gets me more worked up than kids getting put on these drugs. Gee- a depressed teenager? Whoever heard of such a thing?!

There was a study not too long ago that brain chemistry is different in our teen years than it is in adulthood, and these drugs are meant for adults. Kids should not be on these drugs.

yup teens don't need all those pharmacuecticals...when i was a teen, an eight pack of Bud ponies, and a couple of doobies, and a frisbee down the park with your friends cured all of life's problems...parents? ah pass a beer, teachers..pass that bone over?..dude! let's play frisbeee! school? nada problemo amigo!!! wheee!!!

492 Killian Bundy  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:21:38am

Trial lawyers seek return on contributions to Senate Democrats

In February, just two months before he became a Democrat, Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania made a passionate plea for a special tax break for plaintiffs' trial lawyers. His bill, S 437, would allow trial lawyers to deduct immediately on their taxes up-front expenses they incur when investing in contingency lawsuits.

The tax break is reportedly worth $1.6 billion to trial lawyers. If Specter’s amendment passes, this single provision would more than repay the legal industry for its roughly $762 million in political contributions to Democrats over the last two decades.

Which would, in turn, mean more money could be recycled and funneled back to Democrats.

/don't expect tort reform anytime soon

493 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:22:49am

re: #473 iceweasel

We definitely need tort reform but it's only one piece of the puzzle. IMO it's idiotic that it's been off the table.

Totally agree that it's only one step, but imo it's the step that should be taken first as it will impact doctor's insurance rates. Next, I would target the insurance companies themselves, and there is no reason to stop initiatives like small business health insurance co-ops.

494 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:22:50am

re: #488 DrNaughty

When it takes the power of government to enforce socialistic policies, it's clearly totalitarianism...

Look, please look it up, I don't have the space to go through a semester here for you. You are wrong.

495 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:23:18am

re: #481 DrNaughty

I just wish we had Tim Hortons here in Atlanta...

Well, why not order the equipment and coffee. :)

496 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:23:28am

re: #472 lincolntf

re: #460 quiet man

All the people squawking about the phrase "death panels" will be the same ones screeching about "thousands dying from back-alley abortions" next election cycle/Judge appointment.
Live by hyperbole, die by hyperbole.

Fight fire with Fire might be more approproiate..Every time one of the Obamanaughts say there will be a choice in healthcare to push the public via a lie and there is no way to get the truth out...maybe a little more loaded terms will find their way thru.

Obama will not speak of death councils...or any other consequence of his and the democrats plans.

497 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:23:34am

Good Morning and TGIF, {all y'all}!

498 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:24:02am

re: #494 Walter L. Newton

Look, please look it up, I don't have the space to go through a semester here for you. You are wrong.

I've learned in the past that long justifications for something are usually b.s.

499 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:24:08am

re: #488 DrNaughty

When it takes the power of government to enforce socialistic policies, it's clearly totalitarianism...

Then all of Western Europe, in your world is totalitarian?

500 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:24:22am

re: #497 redstateredneck

Good Morning and TGIF, {all y'all}!

Good morning, RedState!

501 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:24:30am

re: #491 Spider Mensch

yup teens don't need all those pharmacuecticals...when i was a teen, an eight pack of Bud ponies, and a couple of doobies, and a frisbee down the park with your friends cured all of life's problems...parents? ah pass a beer, teachers..pass that bone over?..dude! let's play frisbeee! school? nada problemo amigo!!! wheee!!!

Ritalin Alternative

Youtube Video
502 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:24:47am

re: #489 BlueCanuck

Excellent idea. However, requires hard work and thoughtful debate - these qualities are exceedingly rare in congresscritters.

503 lincolntf  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:25:02am

re: #486 reine.de.tout

Neither care nor insurance is truly in "crisis", but the Health Care plan is what was initially advertised. It morphed into a Health Insurance plan about a month or two ago when Obama shifted his lingo.

Conflating the two is inevitable because the efficacy of one can't be judged without considering the other.

504 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:25:20am

re: #485 iceweasel

re: #471 quiet man


[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Thanks in part to her fearmongering, end-of-life counselling is out now. Yay, Palin!

The difference being her state will not force everyone into a government run and controlled entity..beholding to no one, above the courts and enfored by the IRS.

so "Yeah Palin" is the correct response.

505 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:25:31am

re: #502 Leonidas Hoplite

Find yourself some new ones then. :)

506 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:25:38am

re: #501 Desert Dog

Ritalin Alternative

[Video]

I suppose there is a reason that Boones Farm Apple wine doesn't taste as good today than it did when I was 16...

Body chemistry change...

507 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:25:56am

re: #485 iceweasel

That's going to leave a mark.

508 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:26:15am

re: #500 reine.de.tout

{reine}
I cannot tell you how glad I am that it's Friday.
:-)

509 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:26:35am

re: #485 iceweasel

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Thanks in part to her fearmongering, end-of-life counselling is out now. Yay, Palin!

Hyperbole notwithstanding, I always understood Palin's original comments that started the whole kerfluffle to directed at comparative effectiveness, not the end-of-life provisions, although that's where the media took it.

510 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:26:37am

re: #501 Desert Dog

Teens? First grade is full of boys on ritalin. Discusting.

Ritalin Alternative

Youtube Video
511 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:26:48am

re: #498 DrNaughty

I've learned in the past that long justifications for something are usually b.s.

And in your case, just saying something, is no justification for making it correct. You can say an orange is yellow all you want. but you will never be correct.

Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism. They share some ideas on collective politics, but they are not the same and do not lead to each other.

I'm done with this topic with you unless you have some more facts and not your opinion.

512 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:27:13am

re: #506 DrNaughty

I suppose there is a reason that Boones Farm Apple wine doesn't taste as good today than it did when I was 16...

Body chemistry change.

I just got a headache in the base of my skull when I read that.

/shiver

513 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:27:53am

re: #505 BlueCanuck

Find yourself some new ones then. :)

Indeed!

514 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:28:35am

re: #506 DrNaughty

I suppose there is a reason that Boones Farm Apple wine doesn't taste as good today than it did when I was 16...

Body chemistry change...

I was never a fan of the apple; now the strawberry...
Can't imagine tasting it now.

515 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:28:45am

re: #489 BlueCanuck

Maybe what should be done is study other countries health care systems. We have many examples of national health care schemes to look at. Many have been in operation for decades as well. We have the cost figures, patient figures, and health stats as well. There should be a way to make a better system on other countries errors.

Well-- the proposals that were being considered were uniquely American proposals. They didn't propose a move to single payer or a universal system. As leonidas mentioned above, it's like the tort reform issue. Believe it or not, single payer was never going to happen here, for the same reasons--- too many people devoted to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies on both sides of the aisle.

Just like the Obama admin made a deal with big pharma, just like single payer and tort reform being totally off the table...

516 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:29:06am

re: #506 DrNaughty

I suppose there is a reason that Boones Farm Apple wine doesn't taste as good today than it did when I was 16...

Body chemistry change...

I was never a Boones Farm fan...I was more into Mickey's Malt Liquor when I was first starting out in my partying. We would drive up to Cheyenne from Denver to buy it...talk about a hangover...ugh...

517 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:29:36am

Good Morning y'all - from a pleasant (70 degrees) going up to 86 degrees) mostly sunny Charlotte!
Mom and I are doing fine, but have a good friend coming by in a while so I'll be outta here in an hour or so!
How is everyone doing today?

518 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:30:12am

re: #491 Spider Mensch

Heh.

Seriously though- I know there are some kids who need help, but these anti-depressants are made for adults, and the brain of a 16 year old has a different chemistry. I'm hopeful that discovery about adolescent brain chemistry will lead to discoveries for their specific brain chemistries for those teens who really are depressed.

519 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:30:32am

re: #517 realwest
Good morning and welcome home
72 degrees in the center of the country

520 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:30:39am

re: #487 Lucius Septimius

The idea of Congress undertaking Tort Reform is sort of like "Rotweilers against Mauling Toddlers."

I was under the impression that Rotts and other canines maul because they've been trained to do so. Congress, OTOH, does it by instinct.

521 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:31:01am

re: #511 Walter L. Newton

And in your case, just saying something, is no justification for making it correct. You can say an orange is yellow all you want. but you will never be correct.

Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism. They share some ideas on collective politics, but they are not the same and do not lead to each other.

I'm done with this topic with you unless you have some more facts and not your opinion.

THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS.

522 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:31:03am

re: #517 realwest

{realwest & mom}

Hope you and your friend have a good visit (or whatever).

523 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:31:09am

iceweasel

did you notice the difference there??

524 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:31:10am

re: #511 Walter L. Newton

And in your case, just saying something, is no justification for making it correct. You can say an orange is yellow all you want. but you will never be correct.

Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism. They share some ideas on collective politics, but they are not the same and do not lead to each other.

I'm done with this topic with you unless you have some more facts and not your opinion.

Neither socialism nor totalitarianism support personal freedom and liberty...

525 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:31:39am

re: #517 realwest

Good morning realwest. Things are looking good here. It's Friday, the weekend forecast is rocking. Don't know how it could get any better.

/well...a FEW things would make it awesome.

526 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:32:15am

re: #524 DrNaughty

Neither socialism nor totalitarianism support personal freedom and liberty...

Yeah- those Canadians sure are oppressed.

527 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:32:40am

re: #509 Pianobuff

Hyperbole notwithstanding, I always understood Palin's original comments that started the whole kerfluffle to directed at comparative effectiveness, not the end-of-life provisions, although that's where the media took it.

She claimed little baby Trig and her grandparents would come before a 'death panel'.

If Palin really did care about families with special needs kids-- which she claimed, as Veep candidate, was her focus-- maybe she'd know that the people denying coverage to kids like Trig are insurance companies?

Ohio allows ins co's to call downs syndrome a pre-existing condition-- and deny coverage.

This is when I lost all respect for Palin, completely. Forever.

528 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:33:03am

re: #510 filetandrelease

Teens? First grade is full of boys on ritalin. Discusting.

That entire episode of South Park just sliced and diced the entire "give the kids some meds" mentality of our society. I was a wild kid growing up. I fidgeted and was quite active in the classroom. I am positive I would have been one of those drugged up zombies if I was born a little later. My youngest son is the same as I am and one of his teachers actually recommended that a few years ago. I let her have it with both barrels. There is a medical need sometimes for that type of medication. But, more often than not, I would say it is prescribed as an easy way out. It is damaging for a child that does not need it to get it.

529 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:33:23am

re: #488 DrNaughty

When it takes the power of government to enforce socialistic policies, it's clearly totalitarianism...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be closer to fascism? I understand totalitarianism as the complete and total presence of the government hand in every aspect of daily life.

530 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:33:23am

re: #519 quiet man
Morning back atacha! "welcome home"?! No comprende amigo!

531 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:33:25am

re: #514 redstateredneck

I was never a fan of the apple; now the strawberry...
Can't imagine tasting it now.

Strawberry Hill would always give me a headache. That and Ripple...

532 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:33:29am

Hayek makes the point that while socialism does not, in principle, require a totalitarian regime, it leads to one.

The first problem is that once you try to direct one aspect of the economy, it becomes necessary to start fiddling with another. Since the assumption of socialism is that the power of government is necessary to solve problems, once a problem is discovered, new government rules and institutions have to be put into play. Since a good socialist could not imagine that government might, in fact, create more problems than it solves, you end up with an ever increasing spiral of regulation and bureaucratic oversight.

This leads to the second problem. Law tends to operate in the abstract; it is difficult, if not impossible, to write laws that will deal with every contingency. The need to "get things done" under Socialism, however, leads towards solutions that cannot possibly stand up to close legal scrutiny. Actions are either arbitrary or ad hoc; either way, under a Socialist system notions like "rights" and "constitutional provisions" begin to mean less and less for the citizens and are transformed into rationales for even greater government intervention in daily life.

The final problem is choice. Who chooses? You or the collective? Socialism would say "the collective" since the Common Good is the ultimate goal. In theory, if the Common Good is ensured, the Individual Good will necessarily follow. But that requires that one surrender one's own sense of what is Good to the collective. And the collective, Hegel's "General Will" is ultimately a meaningless abstraction (or, as Hamilton supposedly put it, a Great Beast). There is no clearly discernible "General Will"; rather, there is the State, and it sets itself up as a proxy for the General Will and thus makes the decisions in the name of Society. Under such a way of thinking, there can be no room for individual choice since the individual cannot possibly (or be trusted to) make choices that serve the good of the collective.

Hegelians and Marxians have a nice term for individuals who think they know better than the "General will" what is good for them: "false consciousness." The term on its own demonstrates the utter contempt in which anyone who claims to be a morally autonomous individual is held under Socialism.

Unless you're part of the Vanguard Elite (vide Lenin), but that's a different matter.

533 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:34:08am

re: #530 realwest

welcome back would have been more appropriate

534 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:34:15am

re: #515 iceweasel

Believe it or not, single payer was never going to happen here

With respect... Can you honestly say that if no ruckus at all had been made, with 60-whatever % saying they wanted reform quickly, this 1000-pg. bill would not have passed? I know you say it was not mandating single-payer, but many smart people here have shown how it would have led to an intolerable and uneven field for private insurers. So really? Never going to happen or not going to happen now that the ruckus has been made.

535 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:34:22am

re: #522 redstateredneck
Hey howdy {red} I'm sure we will, thanks!
How are y'all doing this morning?

536 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:34:30am

re: #507 Sharmuta

That's going to leave a mark.

You bet your sweet bottom. :)

537 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:34:32am

re: #517 realwest

Hey Real --- responded to your email.

538 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:35:10am

re: #520 Gang of One

I was under the impression that Rotts and other canines maul because they've been trained to do so. Congress, OTOH, does it by instinct.

Too true; my bad.

539 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:35:18am

re: #530 realwest

Morning back atacha! "welcome home"?! No comprende amigo!

morning rw, good to see ya. gawd, i hate company in the morning ;>)

540 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:35:42am

re: #514 redstateredneck

I was never a fan of the apple; now the strawberry...
Can't imagine tasting it now.


taste it? I thought that was a low grade paint brush cleaner? :)

541 Pullus Iulius  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:35:46am

re: #516 Desert Dog

Couldn't ever understand why the Mickey's people actually put poison into their malt liquor. What a titanic buzz, though. Plus you could mutilate yourself with the tear-off lids. Thankfully we learn from the mistakes of our callow youth so we can commit the mistakes of our doddering old age.

542 AuntAcid  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:35:48am

re: #400 iceweasel

I did experiment with Ritalin. I didn't feel any different until the let down hours later. not good...so ended my Rx experiments.

543 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:36:16am

re: #525 BlueCanuck
LOL! I don't think you ought to say what those few things are Blue! Good morning to you, too!

544 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:36:31am

re: #524 DrNaughty

Neither socialism nor totalitarianism support personal freedom and liberty...

And that was a fact. Let's see, totalitarianism does not allow any ownership of private business, we have a multitude of private ownership of business in socialist countries (Western Europe for example). Totalitarianism restricts movement, and groups people into certain communities, people travel all the time in socialist countries (Western Europe for example).

I could go on and on. I asked you for facts, your statement above is not true.

Socialism is not totalitarianism and does not lead to totalitarianism.

I'm done.

545 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:36:52am

re: #534 Spenser (with an S)

With respect... Can you honestly say that if no ruckus at all had been made, with 60-whatever % saying they wanted reform quickly, this 1000-pg. bill would not have passed? I know you say it was not mandating single-payer, but many smart people here have shown how it would have led to an intolerable and uneven field for private insurers. So really? Never going to happen or not going to happen now that the ruckus has been made.

Given that Pelosi and Reid are quite willing to use maneuvering tactics to get this pig though congress, and Obama is tone deaf because he knows what is best for his people, It's fair to say that the Democrats will ramrod this legislation though congress and Obama will sign it.

Health care is the centerpiece of the leftist agenda...

546 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:36:54am

re: #529 Gang of One

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be closer to fascism? I understand totalitarianism as the complete and total presence of the government hand in every aspect of daily life.


Mornin' all!

Isn't Fascism a form of totalitarianism? Aren't you just dealing with symantics?

547 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:37:06am

re: #534 Spenser (with an S)

With respect... Can you honestly say that if no ruckus at all had been made, with 60-whatever % saying they wanted reform quickly, this 1000-pg. bill would not have passed? I know you say it was not mandating single-payer, but many smart people here have shown how it would have led to an intolerable and uneven field for private insurers. So really? Never going to happen or not going to happen now that the ruckus has been made.

Single payer was never going to happen.
Even if that bill had passed as written-- which, I have always pointed out, was impossible-- it would not have led to single payer.

Both sides of the aisle are in thrall to insurance companies, pharmaceutical

548 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:37:34am

re: #528 Desert Dog

When my oldest son, now an honer student in college, was in 1st grade I was called in for a parent conference with his teacher, and two others. My son, a straigt A student at the time, seems was too fidgety and was easily distracted and therefor was recommended for ritalin. It was not a good meeting, and my sons went to private school through elementary.

That entire episode of South Park just sliced and diced the entire "give the kids some meds" mentality of our society. I was a wild kid growing up. I fidgeted and was quite active in the classroom. I am positive I would have been one of those drugged up zombies if I was born a little later. My youngest son is the same as I am and one of his teachers actually recommended that a few years ago. I let her have it with both barrels. There is a medical need sometimes for that type of medication. But, more often than not, I would say it is prescribed as an easy way out. It is damaging for a child that does not need it to get it.

549 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:37:35am

re: #532 Lucius Septimius
What he said! Upding!

550 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:37:42am

re: #533 quiet man
Well, whatever - how's your day shaping up so far?

551 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:37:53am

re: #547 iceweasel

Single payer was never going to happen.
Even if that bill had passed as written-- which, I have always pointed out, was impossible-- it would not have led to single payer.

Both sides of the aisle are in thrall to insurance companies, pharmaceutical

companies, and their campaign contributions.

Sorry, got cut off.

bbiab

552 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:38:08am

Good morning Real. Glad you and mom are doing well.

553 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:38:18am

re: #529 Gang of One

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be closer to fascism? I understand totalitarianism as the complete and total presence of the government hand in every aspect of daily life.

Correct. DrNaughty is arguing political systems in the same way that the fear mongers did in the 50's. All hyperbole and no facts or knowledge of the subject.

And we wonder why the left sometimes looks at conservatives as uneducated yokels.

554 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:38:33am

re: #532 Lucius Septimius

Hayek makes the point that while socialism does not, in principle, require a totalitarian regime, it leads to one.

The first problem is that once you try to direct one aspect of the economy, it becomes necessary to start fiddling with another. Since the assumption of socialism is that the power of government is necessary to solve problems, once a problem is discovered, new government rules and institutions have to be put into play. Since a good socialist could not imagine that government might, in fact, create more problems than it solves, you end up with an ever increasing spiral of regulation and bureaucratic oversight.

This leads to the second problem. Law tends to operate in the abstract; it is difficult, if not impossible, to write laws that will deal with every contingency. The need to "get things done" under Socialism, however, leads towards solutions that cannot possibly stand up to close legal scrutiny. Actions are either arbitrary or ad hoc; either way, under a Socialist system notions like "rights" and "constitutional provisions" begin to mean less and less for the citizens and are transformed into rationales for even greater government intervention in daily life.

The final problem is choice. Who chooses? You or the collective? Socialism would say "the collective" since the Common Good is the ultimate goal. In theory, if the Common Good is ensured, the Individual Good will necessarily follow. But that requires that one surrender one's own sense of what is Good to the collective. And the collective, Hegel's "General Will" is ultimately a meaningless abstraction (or, as Hamilton supposedly put it, a Great Beast). There is no clearly discernible "General Will"; rather, there is the State, and it sets itself up as a proxy for the General Will and thus makes the decisions in the name of Society. Under such a way of thinking, there can be no room for individual choice since the individual cannot possibly (or be trusted to) make choices that serve the good of the collective.

Hegelians and Marxians have a nice term for individuals who think they know better than the "General will" what is good for them: "false consciousness." The term on its own demonstrates the utter contempt in which anyone who claims to be a morally autonomous individual is held under Socialism.

Unless you're part of the Vanguard Elite (vide Lenin), but that's a different matter.

Walter's been pointing out that this legislation bleeds over into other parts of the law, such as the IRS code.

555 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:38:37am

...

556 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:39:00am

Morning Lizards. Hope everyone is enjoying this Friday.

Found a great deal on tires this morning. Quality tires compared to the competetors I checked with. And within budget. Have an appointment later this a.m. to have them installed.

It will be nice not having to put air in the tires every other day.

557 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:39:05am

re: #532 Lucius Septimius

When you start thinking that the solutions to all the ills and problems in a society can be fixed from the top down...from the government to the people, that is when you start on the road. The modern forms of socialism that exist in today's western societies are more of a statist model. The USA has always resisted that type of system. But, the power of our governmental systems, especially the Federal government has been creeping ever so slowly towards that. With Obama's vision, he would have us jump towards that in one fell swoop. I think that is what people are reacting to now...

558 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:39:13am

bbiam!

559 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:39:49am

re: #532 Lucius Septimius

The problem is socialism is an economic policy, not a form of government. There can be any sort of mixing of the two. For example- the UK is socialist while being a constitutional monarchy, and China is totalitarian while opening up to a more capitalist economy that since it's still state controlled we could call socialist.

560 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:39:49am

re: #554 MandyManners

Walter's been pointing out that this legislation bleeds over into other parts of the law, such as the IRS code.

And other places as well. It has implications for the FDA and Labor Depts. as well.

561 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:39:54am

re: #553 Walter L. Newton

Correct. DrNaughty is arguing political systems in the same way that the fear mongers did in the 50's. All hyperbole and no facts or knowledge of the subject.

And we wonder why the left sometimes looks at conservatives as uneducated yokels.

I'm certain that the Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, etc.. fondly remember their People's Republics as well...

562 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:40:10am

re: #555 quiet man

Not sure what happened...but

Single payer, government payer was always on the agenda and will remian so until the left gets it.

563 Desert Dog  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:40:17am

re: #541 Pullus Iulius

Couldn't ever understand why the Mickey's people actually put poison into their malt liquor. What a titanic buzz, though. Plus you could mutilate yourself with the tear-off lids. Thankfully we learn from the mistakes of our callow youth so we can commit the mistakes of our doddering old age.

I saw some college kids get a case of that stuff last weekend. I groaned a little...Oh well, it also made some fond memories come rushing back too.

564 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:40:24am

re: #555 quiet man

...

:

565 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:40:41am

Ice: Wondering what you think of Obama's decision to come out with a few principles vis a vis healthcare but to stay way far outside of the legislative process.

I understand this was done to avoid what many believe killed Hillarycare... drafting all of the legislation and "dropping" it onto Congress.

Do you think Obama has too hands off, just right, or too hands on the legislative side of things?

Given a do-over, how would you have advised him?

566 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:40:58am

re: #546 96RoadKing

Mornin' all!

Isn't Fascism a form of totalitarianism? Aren't you just dealing with symantics?

We are dealing with facts. Please, look up socialism, fascism and totalitarianism. While they all share some aspects of collective politics, they are not the same, and there is no example in history of socialism leading to totalitarianism.

That was the original point made up thread, and no one has been able to give me an example.

Show me a country that went from socialism to totalitarianism?

567 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:41:05am

Real West
I am doing fine..thinking of getting some fishing in tonight

568 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:41:21am

oh the nuns that taught us knew how to take care of extra fidgety kids...in class exorcisms..chasing the fidget aroung the room with a bottle of holy water..splashing it over the kid..yelling " I'll get the devil out of you Boy!!!'

yes this is a true story from the 3rd grade at a catholic elementery school.

569 KenJen  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:41:35am

re: #556 midwestgak

Morning Lizards. Hope everyone is enjoying this Friday.

Found a great deal on tires this morning. Quality tires compared to the competetors I checked with. And within budget. Have an appointment later this a.m. to have them installed.

It will be nice not having to put air in the tires every other day.

Where? I am due for new tires. Walmart had the best deal I could find. I'd really like some gently used but no one seems to sell them around here.

570 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:41:50am

re: #564 MandyManners

re: #555 quiet man


:

and I meant every word of it

/grin

571 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:42:10am

re: #567 quiet man

Real West
I am doing fine..thinking of getting some fishing in tonight

Now were talkin'

572 SixDegrees  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:42:11am

re: #503 lincolntf

Neither care nor insurance is truly in "crisis", but the Health Care plan is what was initially advertised. It morphed into a Health Insurance plan about a month or two ago when Obama shifted his lingo.

Conflating the two is inevitable because the efficacy of one can't be judged without considering the other.

Just a note on terminology: the government's proposal of universal coverage is not insurance. Insurance involves the management of risks through limiting high-risk members or discouraging their participation through fees based on their higher risk. Risk analysis and management go right out the window when you insist, as the government is, that everyone be covered and receive basically similar coverage. It's ridiculous to call this "insurance"; it's a government-backed guarantee.

573 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:42:22am

re: #565 Pianobuff

Ice: Wondering what you think of Obama's decision to come out with a few principles vis a vis healthcare but to stay way far outside of the legislative process.

I understand this was done to avoid what many believe killed Hillarycare... drafting all of the legislation and "dropping" it onto Congress.

Do you think Obama has too hands off, just right, or too hands on the legislative side of things?

Given a do-over, how would you have advised him?

I'd advise him to resign if he really wants to help the United States...

574 AuntAcid  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:42:50am

re: #555 quiet man

...

I'll see your "..." and raise you a ",,," You in or out?

575 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:42:55am

re: #555 quiet man

...

576 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:42:56am

re: #245 Fenway_Nation

I don't think Pig Week on the Discovery Channel will be quite the ratings-grabber...

You beat me to it.

577 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:42:59am

re: #532 Lucius Septimius
Good morning Lucius! Hope you're doing well today!
Y'all might want to check out this link: [Link: www.latimes.com...]
Just to cogitate on (h/t clajacan)!

578 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:43:13am

re: #546 96RoadKing

Mornin' all!

Isn't Fascism a form of totalitarianism? Aren't you just dealing with symantics?

You may be correct -- I admit I do not know enough ... that is why I read more than I post. Best to learn from more informed Lizardim.

579 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:43:19am

re: #434 lincolntf

Come on, somebody in here has got to be from Philly...I want a first-hand reaction to Michael Vick becoming an Eagle.
ESPN is reporting that the City is 2-to-1 against the Vick signing and one of the local papers ran the headline "Hide your dogs" this morning.

On a sporting level, I think he's an overrated QB. Like Randall Cunningham, he's capable of incredible individual plays, but consistently completing less spectacular passes to a third reciever for example, is a different matter. The Eagles would seem to be the last team to take on a controversy like this. They got burned by TO and he didn't have any criminal issues. The Philly fans will hate him if he doesn't perform well and forgive and forget if he does. Personally, I think fighting pitbulls and all the things that go along with that - stealing other people's dogs, getting dogs from the shelter, etc... is horrible. But, Vick has been punished pretty severely. For me, bottom line, I could go either way. No doubt, the Eagles nor any other team were thinkig morals here, only cost/benefit.

580 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:43:24am

To paraphrase Webster and ustice Marshall, the power to tax is the power to destroy.

581 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:43:24am

re: #571 filetandrelease

re: #567 quiet man


Now were talkin'


gonna be 65 degrees here after a mildly cloudy day..the fools will be gone and the night fishermen and women will lead the charge against those tasty crunchable feesh

582 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:43:42am

re: #573 DrNaughty

I'd advise him to resign if he really wants to help the United States...

Oh god...can you imagine the hilarity of Joe Biden as POTUS? Comedy gold!

583 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:43:51am

re: #560 Lucius Septimius

And other places as well. It has implications for the FDA and Labor Depts. as well.

Tentacles.

584 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:44:04am

re: #574 AuntAcid
Mines an "inny"

585 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:44:06am

re: #537 Lucius Septimius
Oh I got it and forwarded it to the appropriate person!
Glad you're well!

586 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:44:31am

re: #569 KenJen

re: #556 midwestgak

Morning Lizards. Hope everyone is enjoying this Friday.

Found a great deal on tires this morning. Quality tires compared to the competetors I checked with. And within budget. Have an appointment later this a.m. to have them installed.

It will be nice not having to put air in the tires every other day.

Where? I am due for new tires. Walmart had the best deal I could find. I'd really like some gently used but no one seems to sell them around here.

I've been very pleased with the store brand (Mastercraft?) that I bought at the local Goodyear franchise/ repair place. Nicely drove through a MI winter and spring rains and an amazing price.

587 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:44:40am

re: #532 Lucius Septimius

Hayek makes the point that while socialism does not, in principle, require a totalitarian regime, it leads to one.

The first problem is that once you try to direct one aspect of the economy, it becomes necessary to start fiddling with another. Since the assumption of socialism is that the power of government is necessary to solve problems, once a problem is discovered, new government rules and institutions have to be put into play. Since a good socialist could not imagine that government might, in fact, create more problems than it solves, you end up with an ever increasing spiral of regulation and bureaucratic oversight.

This leads to the second problem. Law tends to operate in the abstract; it is difficult, if not impossible, to write laws that will deal with every contingency. The need to "get things done" under Socialism, however, leads towards solutions that cannot possibly stand up to close legal scrutiny. Actions are either arbitrary or ad hoc; either way, under a Socialist system notions like "rights" and "constitutional provisions" begin to mean less and less for the citizens and are transformed into rationales for even greater government intervention in daily life.

The final problem is choice. Who chooses? You or the collective? Socialism would say "the collective" since the Common Good is the ultimate goal. In theory, if the Common Good is ensured, the Individual Good will necessarily follow. But that requires that one surrender one's own sense of what is Good to the collective. And the collective, Hegel's "General Will" is ultimately a meaningless abstraction (or, as Hamilton supposedly put it, a Great Beast). There is no clearly discernible "General Will"; rather, there is the State, and it sets itself up as a proxy for the General Will and thus makes the decisions in the name of Society. Under such a way of thinking, there can be no room for individual choice since the individual cannot possibly (or be trusted to) make choices that serve the good of the collective.

Hegelians and Marxians have a nice term for individuals who think they know better than the "General will" what is good for them: "false consciousness." The term on its own demonstrates the utter contempt in which anyone who claims to be a morally autonomous individual is held under Socialism.

Unless you're part of the Vanguard Elite (vide Lenin), but that's a different matter.

I'll say it again, socialism does not lead to totalitarianism. Show me an example? This "essay" above points out the collective concepts that socialism, fascism and totalitarianism share, but, once again, the author above does not even go to the point of showing us a socialist country that become totalitarian.

Hayek is correct in showing some relationships in ideology of these different political concepts, but he is stating unfounded opinion in his conclusions.

588 Lucius Septimius  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:44:49am

re: #559 Sharmuta

With regards to China, executing plant managers when bad products hit the road sounds pretty Totalitarian.

The Chinese, like the Nazis, and the Soviets in their dying years, are prefectly willing to allow a certain level of "private enterprise," but only with the proviso that it exists under the umbrella of a totalitarian system. Those private enterprises, then, are personal privileges granted to individuals that could be (and often are) revoked when the state feels like it (or needs to requisition capital). There is nothing free in the Chinese economy, and periodically the Chinese government takes little symbolic actions to demonstrate that fact.

As for Europe, their experience with socialism is leading them to move away from it.

589 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:45:10am

re: #575 apachegunner

re: #555 quiet man

Youi sure cleaned that one up

590 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:45:43am

re: #569 KenJen

Where? I am due for new tires. Walmart had the best deal I could find. I'd really like some gently used but no one seems to sell them around here.

Discount Tire. They are having a sale today and tomorrow, at least in my area. 65,000 miles. All weather. Falcon 888s. Installation, taxes, free rotations, free flat fixes, etc.

My experience with used tires is that you are buying someone else's problem.

The last two I bought needed air often.

591 filetandrelease  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:45:48am

re: #581 quiet man
I am looking to do some early morning drifting Sunday. A bent rod when the sun comes up, nothing like it. ( a soft ball in there some where)

592 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:45:50am

Morning everyone. Another Friday!

593 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:45:52am

re: #551 iceweasel

bbiab


Shift change?

594 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:46:24am

re: #539 apachegunner
Hey Guns! Good to see you - I love company in the morning - not too early ya unnerstand - but I function best in the morning/early afternoon these days and this is a dear friend, so I'm looking forward to the visit!

595 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:46:31am

re: #581 quiet man

gonna be 65 degrees here after a mildly cloudy day..the fools will be gone and the night fishermen and women will lead the charge against those tasty crunchable feesh sea kittens

PETA required correction.

596 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:46:42am

re: #556 midwestgak

Morning Lizards. Hope everyone is enjoying this Friday.

Found a great deal on tires this morning. Quality tires compared to the competetors I checked with. And within budget. Have an appointment later this a.m. to have them installed.

It will be nice not having to put air in the tires every other day.

Good news, {gak}!

597 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:46:45am

Good Morning Lizards!
How is everyone today? It's Friday!

598 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:47:20am

re: #595 Kosh's Shadow
Grin..then let the fur fly (fish)

599 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:47:37am

re: #597 HoosierHoops
good morning..

600 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:47:43am

re: #588 Lucius Septimius

And I said China was totalitarian, but it's not an economic system. It's a form of government. The two are not the same. The United States isn't a capitalist form of government- we're a democratic republic that uses capitalism as our economic system.

601 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:48:12am

re: #598 quiet man

Grin..then let the fur fly (fish)

Im tempted to post a fish pun, but I think I'll scale back this morning.

602 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:48:17am

re: #594 realwest

Hey Guns! Good to see you - I love company in the morning - not too early ya unnerstand - but I function best in the morning/early afternoon these days and this is a dear friend, so I'm looking forward to the visit!

well good on ya then bud

603 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:48:24am

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

We are dealing with facts. Please, look up socialism, fascism and totalitarianism. While they all share some aspects of collective politics, they are not the same, and there is no example in history of socialism leading to totalitarianism.

That was the original point made up thread, and no one has been able to give me an example.
I was only pointing out the connection of Fascism to totalitarianism. Plenty of examples there. Fascism, Bolshivism, Communism: all totalitarian regimes. Socialism (IMO) is a form of 'Communist Lite'. There are certain governmental checks and balances designed to prevent too much abuse by the apartchiks. Still not my cup of tea. I prefer the free market, and allowing society more freedom of choice.
Show me a country that went from socialism to totalitarianism?

604 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:48:49am

re: #601 Mad Al-Jaffee
good cause they are reely bad usually

605 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:48:50am

re: #597 HoosierHoops

Good Morning Lizards!
How is everyone today? It's Friday!


hey Hoops!

606 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:06am

re: #598 quiet man

Grin..then let the fur fly (fish)

Which reminded me about Red Dwarf, and how the humanoid cat liked fish. Once he learned how to get fish from the food machines, he ate until he was sick.
And of course, cats love fish.
So if fish are sea kittens, would this be cannibalism?
I don't think cats of any size would pay attention to PETA.

607 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:12am

re: #588 Lucius Septimius

With regards to China, executing plant managers when bad products hit the road sounds pretty Totalitarian.

The Chinese, like the Nazis, and the Soviets in their dying years, are prefectly willing to allow a certain level of "private enterprise," but only with the proviso that it exists under the umbrella of a totalitarian system. Those private enterprises, then, are personal privileges granted to individuals that could be (and often are) revoked when the state feels like it (or needs to requisition capital). There is nothing free in the Chinese economy, and periodically the Chinese government takes little symbolic actions to demonstrate that fact.

As for Europe, their experience with socialism is leading them to move away from it.

China was not a "socialist" government before they became what they are now.

My point above was, socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

608 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:27am

re: #601 Mad Al-Jaffee

Im tempted to post a fish pun, but I think I'll scale back this morning.


ya almost hooked us dint ya

609 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:29am

re: #594 realwest

Good morning, real! I hope your doing fine today.

Youtube Video
610 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:32am

re: #597 HoosierHoops

Good morning, {Hoops}! I sent you an email that I think will makes you pleased.

611 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:39am

re: #604 quiet man

good cause they are reely bad usually

Well, we can't all hit homers like A-rod

612 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:41am

re: #605 apachegunner

hey Hoops!

What up Gunner? Hope today finds you well..It's going to be nice this weekend..

613 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:44am

re: #601 Mad Al-Jaffee

Im tempted to post a fish pun, but I think I'll scale back this morning.

Not even one? For the halibut?

614 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:49am

re: #606 Kosh's Shadow

Todays fish is creme d la trout

615 lincolntf  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:54am

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

I can't think of any off hand (although Asia, South and Central America are where I'd look for the closest match). One little handicap is the nature of the two words. I don't think anyone has ever declared their own country a Totalitarian State, while many countries append "Socialist" to the name of their systems.
I'd say that China (despite recent half-assed advances) is pretty totalitarian. They routinely force/restrict travel inside the country. Government has total control of communication/media, etc. Of course, then we get into the "all Communists are Socialists, but not all Socialists are Communists" thing which is another kettle of fish entirely.

616 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:49:54am

re: #607 Walter L. Newton

China was not a "socialist" government before they became what they are now.

My point above was, socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

Nether support economic nor political freedom either...

617 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:50:28am

re: #596 redstateredneck

Good news, {gak}!

Yes it is {reine}. The tires I have now make driving feel like a boat trying to turn in wavey water.

618 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:50:38am

re: #606 Kosh's Shadow

Upding for Red Dwarf.

619 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:50:43am

re: #578 Gang of One

You may be correct -- I admit I do not know enough ... that is why I read more than I post. Best to learn from more informed Lizardim.


Some are informed. Some are opinionated. Either way, they make you think and justify your own views, pro or con.

620 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:50:51am

Speaking of what A-rod was supposed to hit..we were speaking of Sarah Palin earlier...

621 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:51:00am

re: #610 Sharmuta

Good morning, {Hoops}! I sent you an email that I think will makes you pleased.

I just read it..I am very happy for you..
{Sharm}

622 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:51:20am

Good morning, everyone. I hope the day has been treating you well so far.

623 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:51:21am

Ok my first appointment is here and I'm off to the wonderful land of work. Hope everyone has a productive and enjoyable day.

624 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:51:41am

re: #617 midwestgak

Yes it is {reine}. The tires I have now make driving feel like a boat trying to turn in wavey water.


gawd, that sounds unsafe!

625 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:51:59am

re: #597 HoosierHoops

Hey {Hoosier}. Watch the football game last night?

626 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:52:08am

re: #622 MrSilverDragon

Good morning, everyone. I hope the day has been treating you well so far.

So far so good, but you just know some asshole will come along eventually.
;-)

627 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:52:13am

Forms of government are not the same thing as economic systems.

Please re-read until it sinks in. Thank you.

628 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:52:14am

re: #603 96RoadKing

Fascism, Bolshivism, Communism: all totalitarian regimes.

No they were not. Those are not regimes, they are political ideology's. A regime can be fascist, but fascism is not a regime.

629 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:52:18am

re: #616 DrNaughty

Nether support economic nor political freedom either...

Is there such a thing as "economic totalitarianism"?

630 yochanan  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:52:22am

[Link: www.orlandosentinel.com...]

democrats going a little off the deep end I DON'T REMEMBER ANY DEMOCRAT GETTING UP SET WITH ANTI BUSH POSTERS DURING HIS 8 YEARS IN OFFICE

but the zero gets crit and they look to arrest people HYPOCRITES

631 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:53:19am

re: #626 redstateredneck

So far so good, but you just know some asshole will come along eventually.
;-)

*

632 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:53:38am

re: #625 midwestgak

Hey {Hoosier}. Watch the football game last night?


Good Morning..Heck ya I watched Football!
The Colts play tonight...
Hope you are well

633 DrNaughty  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:53:40am

re: #629 Pianobuff

Is there such a thing as "economic totalitarianism"?

Obama's health care proposal...


Bye all...!!!

634 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:53:44am

re: #630 yochanan

or the Bush death threats, death movies, death plays that erupted from the micheal moores of the semi-artistic world.

635 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:54:24am

re: #631 Creeping Eruption

Wow, I have not seen that particular emoticon before.

636 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:54:48am

slipping on my wrap a round glasses...
I'll be bock...

637 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:54:53am

re: #627 Sharmuta

Forms of government are not the same thing as economic systems.

Please re-read until it sinks in. Thank you.

So, it's hypothetical to have a capitalist economic structure within a communist political structure?

638 yochanan  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:54:53am

re: #634 quiet man

or the Bush death threats, death movies, death plays that erupted from the micheal moores of the semi-artistic world.

YES ANY AND ALL OF IT

639 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:54:54am

re: #568 Spider Mensch

oh the nuns that taught us knew how to take care of extra fidgety kids...in class exorcisms..chasing the fidget aroung the room with a bottle of holy water..splashing it over the kid..yelling " I'll get the devil out of you Boy!!!'

yes this is a true story from the 3rd grade at a catholic elementery school.

At my school, they would draw a circle on the board, and you would have to stand with your nose touching the board inside the circle.

It only happened to me one time - I never wanted to go through that embarrassment again.

640 KenJen  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:55:17am

re: #613 Kosh's Shadow

Not even one? For the halibut?

That was bad. You need to go back to pun school./

641 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:55:30am

re: #616 DrNaughty

Nether support economic nor political freedom either...

Hmmm, my rights, freedoms, and economic gains are being restricted by my socialist government? Who knew?

/

642 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:55:30am

re: #615 lincolntf

China has made the shift from a Marxist/Maoist state 30 years ago, to a modern Fascist state today. The Party remains in control, and the name is still "Communist", but the economic & social policies have changed to Fascism, while the Communist Internationalism is long replaced with a fervent militaristic nationalism.

643 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:55:34am

re: #628 Walter L. Newton

No they were not. Those are not regimes, they are political ideology's. A regime can be fascist, but fascism is not a regime.


Fine. You've made your point that I used an incorrect term in my response. How's this: Fascism, Bolshevism, Communism are all Totalitarian in nature. Happy now?

644 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:56:09am

re: #632 HoosierHoops

Good Morning..Heck ya I watched Football!
The Colts play tonight...
Hope you are well

Doing very well. Are you a Colts fan?/// and more sarc///

645 yochanan  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:56:17am

re: #640 KenJen

How about some fresh sushi for the halibut ?

646 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:56:22am

re: #629 Pianobuff

Is there such a thing as "economic totalitarianism"?

This is such a typical example of lumping all political ideology's into one big pot, and then whipping up some hyperbole to put on the top of the whole mess.

This is the sort of talk that went on in the 50's. If it wasn't the United States, it was communism. Even 1984 was used to "educate" people to the horrors of communism, when the book had nothing to do with communism. It was all about Stalinism (totalitarianism).

Bottom line is there is a noted difference between socialism, fascism and totalitarianism and you can't make one into the other.

647 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:56:41am

I didn't even know here was football last night until I read about it this morning. I had a gig and didn't get home until around 10:00.

As both a Redskins and Ravens fan, I'm a little torn about last night's score, but it's nice to see the Ravens still playing well.

648 Tatterdemalian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:56:54am

Those of you who had "13 hours" as the time it would take for Human Rights Watch to denounce the video of Hamas terrorists planting bombs and then waving white flags while hiding among civilians as "trying to discredit the report and Human Rights Watch," "waging a propaganda war against them," and the classic left-wing "silencing criticism," claim your prize.

649 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:57:06am

re: #552 Gang of One
Thanks Gang! How are y'all doing today?

650 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:57:24am

re: #639 reine.de.tout

At my school, they would draw a circle on the board, and you would have to stand with your nose touching the board inside the circle.

It only happened to me one time - I never wanted to go through that embarrassment again.

What horrible offense did you commit?

651 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:57:53am

re: #646 Walter L. Newton

So, Stalin wasn't a communist? He was what then? A totalitarian using communist ideology to organize his state along fascist lines?

652 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:58:20am

re: #643 96RoadKing

Fine. You've made your point that I used an incorrect term in my response. How's this: Fascism, Bolshevism, Communism are all Totalitarian in nature. Happy now?

Nope. All those political ideology's share concepts in collectivism, statism etc. not the other way around.

653 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:58:46am

re: #631 Creeping Eruption

*

I knew it!

654 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:59:21am

re: #651 Leonidas Hoplite

Stalin certainly was a Communist. Not all forms of Communism are identical in application.

655 yochanan  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:59:47am

re: #646 Walter L. Newton

the ideology can be totally different but the crimes can be a lot alike a mass grave is a mass grave.

different politics but one thing communism and nazism had in common was that the end justified the means.

656 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:59:57am

re: #640 KenJen

That was bad. You need to go back to pun school./

I know it was bad, but I couldn't kelp myself.

657 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 6:59:58am

re: #650 midwestgak

She wanted to invade Poland. But, since it wasn't logistically feasible, Mississippi would do.

658 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:00:09am

I don't understand how a government that can confiscate a huge chunk or all of the sweat of your labor can be anything but a totalitarian government.

659 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:00:09am

re: #609 Kenneth
Good morning Kenneth! Thanks for that great tune!
I'm doing ok, would be doing a lot better out here if the dang "post this comment" button and the bold, italics etc. buttons worked properly - seem to be jumping around some, and I frequently have to hit say the "Bold" button twice to get it to work properly.

How are you doing today?

660 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:00:40am

re: #654 Kenneth

Stalin certainly was a Communist. Not all forms of Communism are identical in application.

I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe he was just a jerk who used Marx/Hegel to become a totalitarian. No true communist would ever behave as Stalin did.

/

661 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:01:14am

re: #659 realwest

Just great here! The weather is beautiful, finally, after a long cool wet summer.

662 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:01:30am

re: #637 Leonidas Hoplite

So, it's hypothetical to have a capitalist economic structure within a communist political structure?

No. Communism is an economic system that shares it's name with a political ideology but communism as an economic system needs enforcement, and the form of government found with this economic system is totalitarian.

663 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:01:31am

re: #611 Mad Al-Jaffee
Hey good morning Mad! Say, do y'all happen to know who's in first place in the AL East (since you brought up A-Rod I figured you might know!)?

664 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:02:16am

re: #651 Leonidas Hoplite

So, Stalin wasn't a communist? He was what then? A totalitarian using communist ideology to organize his state along fascist lines?

He was a communist who used communism to build a totalitarian country based around his cult of personality.

I never said communism can't lead to totalitarianism. I said socialism does not lead to totalitarianism. Russia was a Czarist autocracy when it became communist, it did not have a socialistic government. There were some socialist in government for about 6 months before the communist government took control.

665 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:02:59am

re: #565 Pianobuff

Ice: Wondering what you think of Obama's decision to come out with a few principles vis a vis healthcare but to stay way far outside of the legislative process.

I understand this was done to avoid what many believe killed Hillarycare... drafting all of the legislation and "dropping" it onto Congress.

Do you think Obama has too hands off, just right, or too hands on the legislative side of things?

Given a do-over, how would you have advised him?

Hey Pianobuff--
I agree that the strategy here was to avoid everything that tanked Hillarycare-- shove it all off onto Congress rather than producing a plan and forcing it through.

Notice also that Obama is a HUGE fan of that strategy in general. He does it with practically everything. It's a way for him to avoid getting his hands dirty or taking responsibility.

I think Obama is too hands off (but as mentioned, this is how he ALWAYS is, and it's how he prefers to govern).

I also think that in general the Dems are always like this. They roll over for everything and make a fetish of bipartisanship.
They have a supermajority. They should act like it. It's disgusting that the end of life consults are now gone, and it bodes ill for any substantial changes.

666 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:03:06am

re: #648 Tatterdemalian

Those of you who had "13 hours" as the time it would take for Human Rights Watch to denounce the video of Hamas terrorists planting bombs and then waving white flags while hiding among civilians as "trying to discredit the report and Human Rights Watch," "waging a propaganda war against them," and the classic left-wing "silencing criticism," claim your prize.

I notice they claim the IDF didn't address their complaints, but they didn't really respond to the IDF; they just assumed they were correct. From their statement, the only thing the IDF could do would be to accept they did shoot at civilians.

667 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:03:26am

re: #656 Kosh's Shadow

I know it was bad, but I couldn't kelp myself.

I can't wait until this pun thread is Fin.

668 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:03:37am

re: #617 midwestgak
Hey good morning {Gak} - glad to hear about your new tires - might want to have them calibrate the brakes while they're at it - shouldn't cost much more than putting on the tires!

669 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:03:44am

tort reform blurb

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

670 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:03:54am

re: #655 yochanan

the ideology can be totally different but the crimes can be a lot alike a mass grave is a mass grave.

different politics but one thing communism and nazism had in common was that the end justified the means.

I am not pointing out anything else but: socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

While I don't agree in the outcomes that we have seen in any of these collective politics, I am only making that one point and I am not debating any other aspects of these governments.

671 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:03:54am

re: #646 Walter L. Newton

This is such a typical example of lumping all political ideology's into one big pot, and then whipping up some hyperbole to put on the top of the whole mess.

This is the sort of talk that went on in the 50's. If it wasn't the United States, it was communism. Even 1984 was used to "educate" people to the horrors of communism, when the book had nothing to do with communism. It was all about Stalinism (totalitarianism).

Walter, now you're just setting up straw men as defend your argument. Joe McCarthy may have been an alcoholic blowhard of a Senator, but with the release of so many records from the Soviet Union's vaults, it's been noted that there was indeed an active effort on Stalin's part to import communism into the social fabric of the US.

Using the argument that anyone contesting your opinion regarding socialism is a McCarthyite is specious and beneath you. You appear to prefer socialism. Fine. Good for you. You're in a country that gives you the liberty of that voiced opinion. But allow others their opinion that socialism is not an effective solution to the world's ills.

672 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:04:12am

re: #639 reine.de.tout

At my school, they would draw a circle on the board, and you would have to stand with your nose touching the board inside the circle.

It only happened to me one time - I never wanted to go through that embarrassment again.


yea, our nuns had the usual coproral punishments, but the inclass exorcism was a stand out memory...of course our school was the last stop before the old nuns home down at chestnut hill...so they were all about a 150 years old. they knew every punishment in the book and then some..the best thing I can say it was great training for boot camp!

673 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:04:27am

Totalitarianism

Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that controls the state, personality cults, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of state terrorism.

674 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:04:45am

re: #663 realwest

Hey good morning Mad! Say, do y'all happen to know who's in first place in the AL East (since you brought up A-Rod I figured you might know!)?

No, I actually don't really follow baseball at all. I just used A-rod's name to post a stupid pun.

675 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:05:17am

re: #667 Mad Al-Jaffee

I can't wait until this pun thread is Fin.

I think it's tailing off.

676 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:05:24am

Morning, folks. I'm in serious doo-doo.

I started a new medication last Saturday and it's starting to affect my sleep. I'm antsy, I toss and turn, and I'm really grumpy at night unlike before I started this med.

So I go to look at the pill, and what do I discover but these three letters as clear as day on one side:

K O S

That explains it: it's a liberal pill.

/

677 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:05:53am

re: #652 Walter L. Newton

Nope. All those political ideology's share concepts in collectivism, statism etc. not the other way around.


And I disagree, in that each of those ideologies end up as totalitarian. Mussolini's Italy, Franco's Spain, Lenin & Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Ho Chi Min's Viet Nam

678 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:05:57am

re: #665 iceweasel

They roll over for everything and make a fetish of bipartisanship.


They do?

679 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:06:13am

re: #660 Leonidas Hoplite

I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe he was just a jerk who used Marx/Hegel to become a totalitarian. No true communist would ever behave as Stalin did.

/

Back in the day when I dabbled in Marxism, my fellow traveler friends would often make that "No True Communist" argument. Bullshit. Stalin was indeed a Marxist-Leninist Communist. The Party monopolized all political power (with himself as the dictator), economic activity was centralized and state controlled.

The fact that the USSR under Stalin was a Totalitarian nightmare does not mean he was not a True Communist. All it means is that today's Western Leftists still don't understand what true Communism is.

680 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:06:13am

Walter- I think authoritarianism leads to totalitarianism.

681 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:06:22am

re: #675 Kosh's Shadow

I think it's tailing off.

I hope so old chum. But we might see some posters trolling for more.

682 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:06:28am

re: #650 midwestgak

What horrible offense did you commit?

swapping notes back and forth with a friend.
LOL.
terrible, just terrible.

683 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:06:31am

Good morning all! heh that four hands guitar was way cool. How are you all doing this Friday morning and what the heck are you all talking about? Hey hoops, how is Winston? We found out the blood Willie barfed up came from him biting his tongue of all things, he's fine now.

684 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:06:31am

re: #668 realwest

Morning {real}. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check into it.

685 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:06:56am

re: #676 vxbush

Morning, folks. I'm in serious doo-doo.

I started a new medication last Saturday and it's starting to affect my sleep. I'm antsy, I toss and turn, and I'm really grumpy at night unlike before I started this med.

So I go to look at the pill, and what do I discover but these three letters as clear as day on one side:

K O S

That explains it: it's a liberal pill.

/

QUIT TAKING IT, VX! ! !

686 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:07:05am

re: #671 96RoadKing

Walter, now you're just setting up straw men as defend your argument. Joe McCarthy may have been an alcoholic blowhard of a Senator, but with the release of so many records from the Soviet Union's vaults, it's been noted that there was indeed an active effort on Stalin's part to import communism into the social fabric of the US.

Using the argument that anyone contesting your opinion regarding socialism is a McCarthyite is specious and beneath you. You appear to prefer socialism. Fine. Good for you. You're in a country that gives you the liberty of that voiced opinion. But allow others their opinion that socialism is not an effective solution to the world's ills.

No body has contested my statement. Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

And I wasn't setting up a straw man, I was stating an opinion, which you can accept as correct or incorrect, but it is not a straw man. A straw man is something you set up as FACT, I was stating an opinion.

And now, back to my statement of fact. Socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

Show me.

687 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:07:06am

re: #593 redstateredneck

Shift change?

I was taking a call.

BTW, Kos sez hi.

688 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:07:35am

re: #673 Sharmuta

Totalitarianism

Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that controls the state, personality cults, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of state terrorism.

Holy Shit. And all that is going to go on in Canada some day?
///

689 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:08:08am

re: #671 96RoadKing

And please, use the "quote" function so we can read your posts.

690 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:08:14am

Another important distinction is that the Fascists had much better fashion designers than the Communists.

Good Morning Lizards!

691 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:08:20am

re: #687 iceweasel

I was taking a call.

BTW, Kos sez hi.

When do you sleep? When I look at the overnight posting when I get online in the morning you're on here all night.

692 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:08:21am

re: #688 Walter L. Newton

Holy Shit. And all that is going to go on in Canada some day?
///

Those poor bastards.

693 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:08:22am

re: #676 vxbush

Morning, folks. I'm in serious doo-doo.

I started a new medication last Saturday and it's starting to affect my sleep. I'm antsy, I toss and turn, and I'm really grumpy at night unlike before I started this med.

So I go to look at the pill, and what do I discover but these three letters as clear as day on one side:

K O S

That explains it: it's a liberal pill.

/

hahahaha!
You gotta find a new pill.

694 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:08:51am

re: #676 vxbush

LOL. But you had me worried there for a moment.

695 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:08:56am

re: #676 vxbush

Good morning vx, is the pill helping with the low energy level? It sounds like it must. Maybe it's changing you into a kos kid, ha.

696 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:09:03am

re: #691 redstateredneck

When do you sleep? When I look at the overnight posting when I get online in the morning you're on here all night.

She's an android like me.

697 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:09:05am

re: #664 Walter L. Newton

He was a communist who used communism to build a totalitarian country based around his cult of personality.

I never said communism can't lead to totalitarianism. I said socialism does not lead to totalitarianism. Russia was a Czarist autocracy when it became communist, it did not have a socialistic government. There were some socialist in government for about 6 months before the communist government took control.

Communism is a form of socialism just as fascism is. While there may be no direct historical examples of socialism leading to totalitarianism, I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe it couldn't happen. Given the requirement that a degree of personal liberty be given up in any socialistic state, it is also fair to say in my opinion that socialistic states have totalitarian qualities.

698 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:09:43am

re: #696 Sharmuta

She's an android like me.

I was just thinking . . . Neither Shar nor Ice ever seem to sleep.

699 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:09:49am

re: #691 redstateredneck

When do you sleep? When I look at the overnight posting when I get online in the morning you're on here all night.


I've noticed that too perusing the old threads from the previous night...caffeine of the Gods??

700 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:09:50am

re: #696 Sharmuta

She's an android like me.

Must be. I gotta have at least 7 hours of sleep or I'm toast.

701 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:09:58am

re: #646 Walter L. Newton
Good morning Walter. Uh, I'd submit that Hitler did a pretty good job of turning fascism into totalitarianism.
The simple facts are really simple: if you believe that the Government should control all means of production and most means of delivery of services, whatever you choose to call that system, it's gonna wind up being totalitarianistic.

702 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:10:18am

re: #688 Walter L. Newton

Holy Shit. And all that is going to go on in Canada some day?
///


Been to Quebec lately? ;-)

703 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:10:29am

re: #688 Walter L. Newton

Holy Shit. And all that is going to go on in Canada some day?
///

Well, I could bring up a few points about that to highlight some of Sharmuta's post. It seems though that for every point brought up there's another one on the opposite side. We have political tides is the best way to describe it.

704 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:10:50am

re: #688 Walter L. Newton

Holy Shit. And all that is going to go on in Canada some day?
///

Maybe if the Leafs ever win a Stanley Cup.

705 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:10:51am

re: #665 iceweasel


I also think that in general the Dems are always like this. They roll over for everything and make a fetish of bipartisanship.

I guess on your side of the aisle it might look like that, but the vantage point is different over here (particularly as it relates to the House of Reps.) - but I suppose that's how we see things.


They have a supermajority. They should act like it. It's disgusting that the end of life consults are now gone, and it bodes ill for any substantial changes.

If they could get Byrd/Kennedy to attend the vote, then it's a lock. An editorialist (I forget who, but I believe it was a left-leaner) made a really good point a week or two ago - that this is the "dark side" of the 50 state strategy. IOW, in order to get the supermajority, there had to be a tolerance for a good deal of ideological dilution - which the author maintained is the reason that most or all of the debate is on one side of the aisle.

706 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:10:52am

re: #693 reine.de.tout

hahahaha!
You gotta find a new pill.

You need a new drug, like Huey Lewis did in the 80s.

707 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:11:05am

re: #689 Walter L. Newton

And please, use the "quote" function so we can read your posts.


Still waking up. Time for some Espresso.

708 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:11:08am

re: #692 Sharmuta

Those poor bastards.

I'm sorry. I don't like any collective politics. But the history of the world is much more complicated than US Good, Them Bad. That may be the final outcome, but, how people and governments get there is generally complex.

You can't dismiss it all with an opinion.

709 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:11:08am

re: #695 turn

Good morning vx, is the pill helping with the low energy level? It sounds like it must. Maybe it's changing you into a kos kid, ha.

Actually, yes, the pill has been FABULOUS about helping with energy levels. But it's really funny: I have to take it with a big meal or else one of the side effects is that I flush. And I don't just mean my face. My entire body looks like a third-degree sunburn!

710 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:11:20am

re: #682 reine.de.tout

swapping notes back and forth with a friend.
LOL.
terrible, just terrible.

All children do that. I got caught handing off a "love" note in fifth grade. The teacher read it out loud to the whole class. That's embarrasing too. LOL.

711 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:11:28am

re: #698 reine.de.tout

I was just thinking . . . Neither Shar nor Ice ever seem to sleep.

We're actually a team of fembots.

712 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:11:39am

re: #696 Sharmuta

She's an android like me.

OMG it's true. The internet has spawned A.I.s!!!

713 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:11:52am

re: #706 Mad Al-Jaffee

You need a new drug, like Huey Lewis did in the 80s.

GMTA...that song was playing in my head.

714 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:12:14am

re: #706 Mad Al-Jaffee

You need a new drug, like Huey Lewis did in the 80s.

Yeah, but the drugs he talked about didn't seem like much fun.

/I plead the 5th.

715 Tatterdemalian  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:12:21am

As for the current discussion, my research indicates that Stalin wasn't really a communist. He was a brilliant military general who, facing the very simple reality that elimination of capital leads inevitably to elimination of all production (industrial and agricultural) and the starvation of anybody who subscribes to it for long enough, had Lenin's handpicked and still faithful successors exiled from the country at gunpoint (assassinated when necessary to prove his intent and will to follow through), then set about introducing the reforms that would make the Soviet Union a totalitarian state, so that it would not be reduced by blind Marxism to a sparse collection of nomadic tribes wandering the tundra of Siberia rooting for what food they could find.

716 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:12:22am

re: #711 iceweasel

We're actually a team of fembots.

We need pictures to prove that.

717 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:12:48am

re: #714 MrSilverDragon

Yeah, but the drugs he talked about didn't seem like much fun.

/I plead the 5th.

Hey, chocolate is a drug. That's all I need.

718 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:13:02am

re: #649 realwest

Thanks Gang! How are y'all doing today?

Not too bad, Real. Spent yesterday and Wednesday at the Jersey Shore® for my GF's b-day. It was ruined Wednesday night/Thursday AM when she got a call that her eldest daughter had been picked up for partying in GF's car with a bunch of low-life's -- the police found CDS in the kid's wallet, impounded the car ...
Spent yesterday with her as she negotiated the release of the vehicle [they had it marked as 'siezed'] and were not so ready to release it, but she prevailed. GF recovered her daughter's phone ...

/Never a dull moment ...

719 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:14:07am

re: #644 midwestgak

Doing very well. Are you a Colts fan?/// and more sarc///


LOL
When we went to the Superbowl in 2006..I dyed my hair blue for a week..

720 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:14:22am

re: #718 Gang of One

CDs are illegal now? I have hundreds in my music collection!

721 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:14:27am

re: #716 Mad Al-Jaffee

We need pictures to prove that.

How's video?

Youtube Video
722 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:14:39am

re: #670 Walter L. Newton

I am not pointing out anything else but: socialism does not lead to totalitarianism.

That depends on who defines the term "Socialism". I assume you are using the definitions as used by Western European Social Democratic parties. In which case, you are correct: none of those countries became totalitarian communist dictatorships.

However, the USSR self-described their political/economic system as "Socialism". They saw the USSR as a stage in the economic development towards the ultimate goal of "Communism". In Marxists theory, the dictatorship of the proletariat ruled during the Socialist phase. Eventually, as society progressed toward pure Communism, the state was supposed to "wither away". In that sense, utter nonsense as it turns out, the final Communist phase would be completely un-totalitarian. That this transformation has never occurred in any Marxist state is a big proof of the failure of Marxist ideology.

723 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:14:47am

re: #709 vxbush

Actually, yes, the pill has been FABULOUS about helping with energy levels. But it's really funny: I have to take it with a big meal or else one of the side effects is that I flush. And I don't just mean my face. My entire body looks like a third-degree sunburn!

niacin

724 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:14:51am

re: #658 MandyManners

I don't understand how a government that can confiscate a huge chunk or all of the sweat of your labor can be anything but a totalitarian government.

I'd say it was bordering on tyrannical before being totalitarian, IMHO.

725 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:15:03am

re: #721 iceweasel

How's video?



That's blocked at work for me.

726 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:15:04am

re: #665 iceweasel

Hey Pianobuff--
I agree that the strategy here was to avoid everything that tanked Hillarycare-- shove it all off onto Congress rather than producing a plan and forcing it through.

Notice also that Obama is a HUGE fan of that strategy in general. He does it with practically everything. It's a way for him to avoid getting his hands dirty or taking responsibility.

I think Obama is too hands off (but as mentioned, this is how he ALWAYS is, and it's how he prefers to govern).

I also think that in general the Dems are always like this. They roll over for everything and make a fetish of bipartisanship.
They have a supermajority. They should act like it. It's disgusting that the end of life consults are now gone, and it bodes ill for any substantial changes.

Yes, but isn't it correct to say they don't act like it because their supermajority is of Dems, not liberal Dems? Or do you mean that the non-liberal Dems are being overly cautious in thinking about the next election?

727 JacksonTn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:15:11am

re: #718 Gang of One

Not too bad, Real. Spent yesterday and Wednesday at the Jersey Shore® for my GF's b-day. It was ruined Wednesday night/Thursday AM when she got a call that her eldest daughter had been picked up for partying in GF's car with a bunch of low-life's -- the police found CDS in the kid's wallet, impounded the car ...
Spent yesterday with her as she negotiated the release of the vehicle [they had it marked as 'siezed'] and were not so ready to release it, but she prevailed. GF recovered her daughter's phone ...

/Never a dull moment ...

GoO ... kids! ...what ya gonna do ... you can't put them back ... gotta love em ...

Good Morning ya'll ... I have heard Obama's approval ratings are dropping ... how could this possibly be true? ...

/happy days are here again ...

728 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:15:13am

re: #717 vxbush

Hey, chocolate is a drug. That's all I need.

Just watch out for the pure stuff... 80% cacao is pretty intense.

729 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:15:30am

re: #709 vxbush

Actually, yes, the pill has been FABULOUS about helping with energy levels. But it's really funny: I have to take it with a big meal or else one of the side effects is that I flush. And I don't just mean my face. My entire body looks like a third-degree sunburn!

I'm glad you have more energy, but I wonder what the heck you're on. Flushing like that doesn't sound too healthy.

730 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:16:06am

re: #723 apachegunner

niacin

Bingo. Extended release. Lots of fun when taken without food, but boy it works. It's actually a combo drug, but that's the fun part of it.

731 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:16:24am

re: #697 Leonidas Hoplite

Communism is a form of socialism just as fascism is. While there may be no direct historical examples of socialism leading to totalitarianism, I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe it couldn't happen. Given the requirement that a degree of personal liberty be given up in any socialistic state, it is also fair to say in my opinion that socialistic states have totalitarian qualities.

It is quite a stretch to believe that socialism can lead to totalitarianism. You can't have totalitarianism when you have an educated population, which is the case with most countries which have some form of democratic socialism. Plus, most democratic socialistic countries have private ownership of business and commerce. The control and flow of commerce is actually more important in the shaping of history than religion, politics or any other ideology.

The reason communism can take hold is because you start with an uneducated peasant society, and putting them under a collective communistic government is easy. That's what happened in Russia and China etal:

It's not the same and does not lead in the same direction.

732 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:16:27am

re: #724 Gang of One

I'd say it was bordering on tyrannical before being totalitarian, IMHO.

Great, more hairs to split...;-)

733 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:16:44am

re: #683 turn

Good morning all! heh that four hands guitar was way cool. How are you all doing this Friday morning and what the heck are you all talking about? Hey hoops, how is Winston? We found out the blood Willie barfed up came from him biting his tongue of all things, he's fine now.

Winston seems to be fine..playing, eating and wagging his tail..Boy was I worried.

734 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:16:45am

re: #728 MrSilverDragon

Just watch out for the pure stuff... 80% cacao is pretty intense.

Oh, no; that's simply divine.

735 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:17:07am

re: #725 Mad Al-Jaffee

That's blocked at work for me.

Dang. :(

Austin Powers. Fembots.

736 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:17:19am

re: #676 vxbush
Good morning vxbush! Hey ya shoulda known - liberals (actually Leftists, there probably aren't enougn Daniel Patrick Moynihan type liberals left in this country to fill a phone booth...if you could FIND a phone booth!) are pills!
/

737 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:17:44am

re: #706 Mad Al-Jaffee

You need a new drug, like Huey Lewis did in the 80s.

I always thought it sucked that Huey Lewis died at the end of Die Hard.
/

738 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:17:49am

re: #722 Kenneth

...However, the USSR self-described their political/economic system as "Socialism"...

Link to that concept please.

739 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:18:23am

re: #649 realwest

Still blurry eye-ed.

Hey, about the Ellis piece. My initial reaction was to reject it on the basis that he seemed to suggest that we will ultimately reject all the positions of the Founders with regard to the size and scope of government. But some of the points made in "Guns, Germs, and Steel" came to mind as to how societies develop and why the do so differently.

Europe is the model for centralized government. It also does not have the same civil liberties as we enjoy, namely its tradition of prior restraint and gun ownership. But, my "sense/opinion" is that this is a result of the tradition of European history--a closely-packed continent with a long history of wars. This has, perhaps, fueled a desire for stability and order at the expense of some of the rights we hold dear.

As for us, as Ellis suggested, we are no longer the country that Adams, Hamilton and Jefferson knew. We probably have grown beyond all proportion what they might have imagined. At one time, those freedoms were workable given the size of the country relative to the population. But, now that we are 300+million and growing, perhaps we, too, are naturally "evloving" into the European mold.

Look at the Red v Blue states and the breakdowns therein. Most of the strong central-government adherents are in the large built-up urban areas while the traditional conservatives are in the rural areas. This, to me, is starting to suggest that the rise of socialist ideals is more a logical, if not natural, development given the growth of urban areas over the last century. In other words, the more tight-packed a population, the more it is willing to sacrifice some civil liberties in exchange for stability and order.

Perhaps what we are seeing is not the direct result of political agitation and struggle, but a natural consequence of human nature coupled with the movement of populations.

...and all this on one cup of coffee.

740 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:18:27am

re: #731 Walter L. Newton

It is quite a stretch to believe that socialism can lead to totalitarianism. You can't have totalitarianism when you have an educated population, which is the case with most countries which have some form of democratic socialism. Plus, most democratic socialistic countries have private ownership of business and commerce. The control and flow of commerce is actually more important in the shaping of history than religion, politics or any other ideology.

The reason communism can take hold is because you start with an uneducated peasant society, and putting them under a collective communistic government is easy. That's what happened in Russia and China etal:

It's not the same and does not lead in the same direction.

Germany 1933?

741 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:18:44am

The Democrats have only themselves to blame for the grilling they're getting at these town halls. They're the ones who exaggerated the problems and cooked up a national health care scheme to solve them. They're the ones who tried to ram it through Congress. All of them should have the courage to come out of hiding and get the verbal flogging they deserve.

[Link: www.ibdeditorials.com...]

742 KenJen  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:18:48am

I just read an article on Drudge about Obama sitting down with an eleven- year old reporter for an hour. Guess he has nothing better to do. He agreed to talk with the child after someone named D-wade said he'd play one-on-one basketball with him. At the end of the interview the child reporter informed the President that he and Biden had become homeboys and asked Obama if they could become homeboys. "Absolutely" said Obama. How Presidential!

743 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:19:05am

re: #737 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I always thought it sucked that Huey Lewis died at the end of Die Hard.
/

HAHA..they do bear a resemblance, don't they?

744 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:19:28am

re: #708 Walter L. Newton

I'm sorry. I don't like any collective politics. But the history of the world is much more complicated than US Good, Them Bad. That may be the final outcome, but, how people and governments get there is generally complex.

You can't dismiss it all with an opinion.

And the economic system and the form of government are very much entwined, but they're still not the same thing.

Capitalism and democracy work well with each other. And democracy can work with socialism too- just ask our Canadian friends. However- there is no such thing as a socialist government. It is an economic system. France, while socialist, is a democracy.

745 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:19:53am

re: #726 Flyers1974

Yes, but isn't it correct to say they don't act like it because their supermajority is of Dems, not liberal Dems? Or do you mean that the non-liberal Dems are being overly cautious in thinking about the next election?

Both, actually. Too many Blue Dogs, none of whom care about anything but being re-elected.
Also there are vanishingly few Dems who genuinely care about progressive principles at all.
Finally, there's this culture going back to the Clinton admin where 'bipartisanship' means 'giving the repubs what they want'.

How are you, Flyers?

746 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:20:03am

re: #722 Kenneth

That depends on who defines the term "Socialism". I assume you are using the definitions as used by Western European Social Democratic parties. In which case, you are correct: none of those countries became totalitarian communist dictatorships.

However, the USSR self-described their political/economic system as "Socialism". They saw the USSR as a stage in the economic development towards the ultimate goal of "Communism". In Marxists theory, the dictatorship of the proletariat ruled during the Socialist phase. Eventually, as society progressed toward pure Communism, the state was supposed to "wither away". In that sense, utter nonsense as it turns out, the final Communist phase would be completely un-totalitarian. That this transformation has never occurred in any Marxist state is a big proof of the failure of Marxist ideology.

No, that just means the right people haven't tried it yet. The next time, it'll work!
/

747 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:20:19am

re: #730 vxbush

Bingo. Extended release. Lots of fun when taken without food, but boy it works. It's actually a combo drug, but that's the fun part of it.

Years back I used to take Choline on a pretty regular basis, as a memory booster. The side affect of smelling like fish if I took too much didn't go over well with roommates, but it sure felt like I could outthink 'em, and I beat 'em at chess a lot. :)

748 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:20:25am

re: #730 vxbush

Bingo. Extended release. Lots of fun when taken without food, but boy it works. It's actually a combo drug, but that's the fun part of it.

Naicin is vitamin B3, not a drug. Glad it is working for you.

749 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:20:45am

re: #664 Walter L. Newton

You forgot to add that Marx never imagined that his philosophy would work in Russia, which was primarily an agrarian society. He thought industrialized Germany or Britain would have been the better seed-bed.

I agree, though. The Russians were (and perhaps still are) hard-wired/conditioned to autocratic rule.

750 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:20:47am

re: #740 Leonidas Hoplite

Germany 1933?

Germany was never a totalitarian government.

751 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:21:06am

re: #721 iceweasel

Just in case anyone is wondering- I'm the blond in that video. ;)

752 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:21:19am

Others, such as Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin, the No. 2 Senate Democrat, are hosting smaller roundtables with community leaders. "I won't be doing sucker-punch town-hall meetings," Durbin said.

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

753 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:21:20am

re: #715 Tatterdemalian

As for the current discussion, my research indicates that Stalin wasn't really a communist. He was a brilliant military general who, facing the very simple reality that elimination of capital leads inevitably to elimination of all production (industrial and agricultural) and the starvation of anybody who subscribes to it for long enough, had Lenin's handpicked and still faithful successors exiled from the country at gunpoint (assassinated when necessary to prove his intent and will to follow through), then set about introducing the reforms that would make the Soviet Union a totalitarian state, so that it would not be reduced by blind Marxism to a sparse collection of nomadic tribes wandering the tundra of Siberia rooting for what food they could find.

Oh for crying out loud! Stalin had zero education in the military arts and until he became Secretary General of the USSR, and declred himself "Marshal" he never held rank in any army. His idiocy as a military Commander in Chief exceeded even Hitler's.

He was a Marxist-Leninist Communist. No escaping that fact. He was also ruthless, paranoid and a towering Narcissist. Communism seems to attract that sort of person.

754 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:21:28am

re: #731 Walter L. Newton

It is quite a stretch to believe that socialism can lead to totalitarianism. You can't have totalitarianism when you have an educated population, which is the case with most countries which have some form of democratic socialism. Plus, most democratic socialistic countries have private ownership of business and commerce. The control and flow of commerce is actually more important in the shaping of history than religion, politics or any other ideology.

The reason communism can take hold is because you start with an uneducated peasant society, and putting them under a collective communistic government is easy. That's what happened in Russia and China etal:

It's not the same and does not lead in the same direction.

I was under the impression that Marx beleived communism would begin to take hold in the industrialized capitalistic countries of Western Europe. Am I mistaken?

755 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:22:02am

re: #731 Walter L. Newton

It is quite a stretch to believe that socialism can lead to totalitarianism. You can't have totalitarianism when you have an educated population, which is the case with most countries which have some form of democratic socialism. Plus, most democratic socialistic countries have private ownership of business and commerce. The control and flow of commerce is actually more important in the shaping of history than religion, politics or any other ideology.

The reason communism can take hold is because you start with an uneducated peasant society, and putting them under a collective communistic government is easy. That's what happened in Russia and China etal:

It's not the same and does not lead in the same direction.

I'd have to dig back into one of my Stalin biographies to get the appropriate Stalin quote, but I'm pretty sure he believed (or at least wanted everyone to believe that he believed) that the Russian state was maturing through different socialistic styles.

If it doesn't take me too long to locate the source, I'll try to post it to you later.

756 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:22:08am

re: #733 HoosierHoops

Winston seems to be fine..playing, eating and wagging his tail..Boy was I worried.

Great! I can't believe he is your first pet ever. Why did you wait so long anyway? I love my dogs, I have never been without one (or two or three or four)

757 realwest  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:22:47am

Well y'all I gotta go now, but I'm leaving you with two superb music videos, featuring Tommy Emmanuel - just to give your day a great start! (toin up dem speakers!)

Youtube Video

and

Youtube Video

Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

758 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:23:02am

re: #736 realwest

Good morning vxbush! Hey ya shoulda known - liberals (actually Leftists, there probably aren't enougn Daniel Patrick Moynihan type liberals left in this country to fill a phone booth...if you could FIND a phone booth!) are pills!
/

They have ABSOLUTELY no sense of humor. They have the MOST atrocious fashion sense. And they smell, too./

759 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:23:08am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I want to thank everyone for the kind words the other day following word that my grandma passed away. It was greatly appreciated.

760 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:23:11am

re: #718 Gang of One

Not too bad, Real. Spent yesterday and Wednesday at the Jersey Shore® for my GF's b-day. It was ruined Wednesday night/Thursday AM when she got a call that her eldest daughter had been picked up for partying in GF's car with a bunch of low-life's -- the police found CDS in the kid's wallet, impounded the car ...
Spent yesterday with her as she negotiated the release of the vehicle [they had it marked as 'siezed'] and were not so ready to release it, but she prevailed. GF recovered her daughter's phone ...

/Never a dull moment ...

What is CDS?
(sorry about your trip being interrupted, btw. I love the Jersey Shore-- some of the best beaches in the world, IMO)

761 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:23:22am

re: #720 Mad Al-Jaffee

CDs are illegal now? I have hundreds in my music collection!

Yup. Controlled Dangerous Sounds.
/leads to tinnitus.

762 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:23:51am

re: #750 Walter L. Newton

Germany was never a totalitarian government.

Well technically you are right, Germany isn't/wasn't a government but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that Germany under Hitler was not a Totalitarian state.

763 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:24:02am

re: #748 turn

Naicin is vitamin B3, not a drug. Glad it is working for you.

Yes, I know it's a vitamin. At this dosage, though, it is prescription only. Ergo, it's a drug.

And technically any food is considered a drug...

764 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:24:04am

re: #750 Walter L. Newton

I would beg to differ. However, what definition of "totalitarian" are you using?

765 Mithrax  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:24:07am

re: #761 Gang of One

Yup. Controlled Dangerous Sounds.
/leads to tinnitus.

Barry Manilow?

766 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:24:32am

re: #752 albusteve

Others, such as Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin, the No. 2 Senate Democrat, are hosting smaller roundtables with community leaders. "I won't be doing sucker-punch town-hall meetings," Durbin said.

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

That's because he knows we would outnumber him and his supporters 10 to 1.

767 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:24:59am

re: #746 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

No, that just means the right people haven't tried it yet. The next time, it'll work!
/

Remind me again of the definition of "insanity"?

768 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:25:17am

re: #754 Leonidas Hoplite

I was under the impression that Marx beleived communism would begin to take hold in the industrialized capitalistic countries of Western Europe. Am I mistaken?

Right, because he believed that socialism would not work. The party that became communist were democratic socialist, and they split, because they knew that true socialism would not lead where they wanted to go.

Socialism leaves too much control in the hands of a relatively educated population.

The Russian Social-Democratic Party split and adopted Leninism and one part became the Bolshevik's.

769 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:25:20am

re: #757 realwest

Well y'all I gotta go now, but I'm leaving you with two superb music videos, featuring Tommy Emmanuel - just to give your day a great start! (toin up dem speakers!)

[Video]Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

My machine at work doesn't have speakers (or a functioning sound card), and if it did, I doubt co-workers would appreciate having it turned up.

But once, years and several companies ago, I was playing a cd of Billie Holliday softly through speakers, when a VP said "Is that Billie Holliday? Turn it up!"
I did

770 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:25:24am

re: #763 vxbush

Yes, I know it's a vitamin. At this dosage, though, it is prescription only. Ergo, it's a drug.

And technically any food is considered a drug...

And now, "medical foods" are also coming into vogue.

771 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:25:29am

re: #766 vxbush

That's because he knows we would outnumber him and his supporters 10 to 1.


lindsey grahmn is also avoiding his public

772 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:25:43am

Kseniya Simonova - Sand Animation (Україна має талант / Ukraine's Got Talent)

Youtube Video

Pretty impressive. The audience actually starts crying at one point.

773 Lincolntf  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:25:59am

re: #766 vxbush

All questioning of the Government is a "sucker-punch" to these Dem bozos. They Won, dammit!

774 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:26:08am

re: #769 Kosh's Shadow

"Turn it up!" always makes me think of Seet Home Alabama.

775 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:26:19am

re: #757 realwest

Before you do, check mine out @ 739. Thanks.

776 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:27:19am

re: #756 turn

Great! I can't believe he is your first pet ever. Why did you wait so long anyway? I love my dogs, I have never been without one (or two or three or four)


A buddy of mine rescued him from a pole barn and dropped him off..
He said I needed a dog..so now I'm stuck with him...:)

777 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:28:24am

re: #776 HoosierHoops

A buddy of mine rescued him from a pole barn and dropped him off..
He said I needed a dog..so now I'm stuck with him...:)

Oh, yeah, you're stuck. Stuck in love, methinks.

I can't leave the house without loving the kitties; it's pathetic.

778 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:28:35am

re: #776 HoosierHoops

A buddy of mine rescued him from a pole barn and dropped him off..
He said I needed a dog..so now I'm stuck with him...:)

yeah, darn. i've watched you fall in love with winston over the past months, glad he's ok. teaching him any tricks, like getting a cold beer our of the fridge for ya?

779 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:28:39am

re: #770 Pianobuff

re: #763 vxbush

Yes, I know it's a vitamin. At this dosage, though, it is prescription only. Ergo, it's a drug.

And technically any food is considered a drug...

And now, "medical foods" are also coming into vogue.

My brother works for a company that makes "Nutraceuticals", concentrated oat bran, cranberries, etc. in a pharmaceutical-grade form.

780 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:28:48am

fascists!
Anyone who attempted to engage Fudge before the question-and-answer period was quickly shown the door.

[Link: www.newsnet5.com...]

781 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:29:22am

re: #764 calcajun

I would beg to differ. However, what definition of "totalitarian" are you using?

There is a difference between a totalitarian and totalitarianism. Totalitarianism is a political ideology, a totalitarian is a human who may or may not engage him/her self in all aspect of totalitarianism.

Stalin was a pure totalitarian, but you could describe zero-tolerance rules as totalitarian, because they narrowly define someone's behavior in a certain situation.

Try wiki [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

782 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:29:55am

re: #760 iceweasel

What is CDS?
(sorry about your trip being interrupted, btw. I love the Jersey Shore-- some of the best beaches in the world, IMO)

Controlled Dangerous Substances, I think.

And yes, the Jersey shore is excellent. I have lived in Jersey on and off since 1965 [not including the years spent living in Mexico], and had not been to the shore until this year. Go figure ...

783 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:30:16am

re: #780 albusteve

fascists!
Anyone who attempted to engage Fudge before the question-and-answer period was quickly shown the door.

[Link: www.newsnet5.com...]

Her real name is "Fudge"? I thought you were posting a nickname, or a Judy Blume character.

784 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:30:33am

re: #763 vxbush

Yes, I know it's a vitamin. At this dosage, though, it is prescription only. Ergo, it's a drug.

And technically any food is considered a drug...

Oh, I didn't mean it that way - of course you knew it was a vitamin. I was relieved it wasn't some other chemical is all. Any food is considered a drug? I didn't know that.

785 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:30:42am

re: #782 Gang of One

Controlled Dangerous Substances, I think.

And yes, the Jersey shore is excellent. I have lived in Jersey on and off since 1965 [not including the years spent living in Mexico], and had not been to the shore until this year. Go figure ...

I grew up in Morris County and also lived in Sussex County for a little bit.

Ever been that way?

786 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:30:47am

re: #779 Spenser (with an S)

My brother works for a company that makes "Nutraceuticals", concentrated oat bran, cranberries, etc. in a pharmaceutical-grade form.

I've heard of those, but I'll be honest; my skeptical self doesn't see much difference between that product and regular oat brain, cranberries, etc. once they get past the stomach. It's all going to break down into the same basic components.

787 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:30:54am

re: #782 Gang of One

Controlled Dangerous Substances, I think.

And yes, the Jersey shore is excellent. I have lived in Jersey on and off since 1965 [not including the years spent living in Mexico], and had not been to the shore until this year. Go figure ...


yes, but,but Jersey? ewww (sorry about that any jersey lizards but why are ya still there?)

788 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:31:11am

re: #762 Leonidas Hoplite

Well technically you are right, Germany isn't/wasn't a government but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that Germany under Hitler was not a Totalitarian state.

No I am not, he was an authoritarian.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

789 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:31:15am

re: #765 Mithrax

Barry Manilow?

... Helen Reddy ...

790 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:31:21am

re: #784 turn

Oh, I didn't mean it that way - of course you knew it was a vitamin. I was relieved it wasn't some other chemical is all. Any food is considered a drug? I didn't know that.

Does that make all of us drug addicts?

791 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:31:30am
792 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:31:41am

re: #782 Gang of One

Controlled Dangerous Substances, I think.

And yes, the Jersey shore is excellent. I have lived in Jersey on and off since 1965 [not including the years spent living in Mexico], and had not been to the shore until this year. Go figure ...

NJ beaches are way down the list for me...hardly included in the best in the US let alone the world...I guess it depends on what a beach is

793 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:31:41am

re: #697 Leonidas Hoplite

Communism is a form of socialism just as fascism is. While there may be no direct historical examples of socialism leading to totalitarianism, I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe it couldn't happen. Given the requirement that a degree of personal liberty be given up in any socialistic state, it is also fair to say in my opinion that socialistic states have totalitarian qualities.

Personal liberty can be and is given up in every country. If you are speaking theoretically, in the US, we can vote to amend the constitution to repeal our fourth amendment rights regarding search and seizure - or the SC can decide to overrule prior cases and hold that are rights under that amendment are much less than they are now. Or our lawmakers whom we elected can and do make us "give up" all sorts of things that are in a sense, "personal liberties" - smoking weed, drinking under 21, selling our organs, etc... . Regarding socialism possibly leading to totalitarianism, as long as the UK for example, has universal sufferage, why would they be any more likely to go the totalitarianism route than the US? Universal sufferage and the tradition of such is the key I think, not the economic system.

794 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:31:57am

re: #778 apachegunner

yeah, darn. i've watched you fall in love with winston over the past months, glad he's ok. teaching him any tricks, like getting a cold beer our of the fridge for ya?

LOL He follows me everywhere I go..Which at first was wierd cause I'd forget about him and almost walk over him...If I go to the bathroom he sits outside the door in case he is needed..I tell him he is ate up..

795 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32:05am

re: #788 Walter L. Newton

No I am not, he was an authoritarian.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Ok

796 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32:07am

re: #785 Pianobuff

I grew up in Morris County and also lived in Sussex County for a little bit.

Ever been that way?

I worked in Morris County, lived in Jefferson Country at Lake Hopatcong from 1964-1974.

797 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32:12am

re: #738 Walter L. Newton

Link to that concept please.

For starters, consider the name:

USSR = Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

A socialist Soviet Republic in Russia will stand as a living example to the peoples of all countries, and the propaganda and the revolutionising effect of this example will be immense. - V.I.Lenin:

Then read The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. It describes the Marxist concept of Socialism very well.

And then there is this little paper by one J.V Stalin

There are thousands of essays by Marxists in which they define Socialism as a phase in the economic transition to Communism. That concept is the foundation of Marxism.

Now the point you have been making is that Western "Socialism" (i.e. social democrats) does not lead to totalitarianism, I do agree with. No country that was ever governed by a social democratic gov't ever became Communist or Totalitarian. But not for want of trying. Consider how close post war Socialist France came to being run by the Communists. Same thing in Italy and Greece.

798 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32:14am

re: #792 albusteve

NJ beaches are way down the list for me...hardly included in the best in the US let alone the world...I guess it depends on what a beach is

What are your favs?

799 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32:23am

re: #785 Pianobuff

I grew up in Morris County and also lived in Sussex County for a little bit.

Ever been that way?

Rarely. Spent some down-time with GF at her pal's B&B in Glenwood. Beautiful up there.

800 freetoken  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32:23am

re: #772 Killgore Trout

Brilliant. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

The idea of illustrating in real time a story or a piece of music was experimented with some time ago.

There was an charcoal artist by the name of Lisl Weil who did that (though the subject was not as personally dramatic as that done by your Ukranian find.) See: [Link: www.archive.org...]

801 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32:33am

re: #763 vxbush

I looked up drug in the dictionary, I don't see anything applying to food.

802 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:33:22am

re: #754 Leonidas Hoplite

That is exactly correct. Marx expected Communism first in industrialized Germany & Britain. He never expected it in largely feudal Russia and never in China.

803 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:33:33am

re: #801 turn

I looked up drug in the dictionary, I don't see anything applying to food.

It works for cat food.
"Look what the cat drug in."

804 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:33:33am

re: #794 HoosierHoops

LOL He follows me everywhere I go..Which at first was wierd cause I'd forget about him and almost walk over him...If I go to the bathroom he sits outside the door in case he is needed..I tell him he is ate up..


awww :>)

805 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:33:34am

re: #796 Walter L. Newton

I worked in Morris County, lived in Jefferson Country at Lake Hopatcong from 1964-1974.

I know Lake Hopatcong awfully well. Reminds me of many good times in my younger years.

806 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:34:12am
807 justabill  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:34:26am

What I thing you are all wrestling with is the fact that power corrupts. To re-make society into a socialist/communist one, requires the assumption/vesting of power in an individual/small group. This individual(group) becomes corrupt, which leads to totalitarianism.

808 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:34:51am

re: #787 apachegunner

yes, but,but Jersey? ewww (sorry about that any jersey lizards but why are ya still there?)

Yah, not too crazy for about Jersey, but I've committed myself to getting at least three years teaching in the school I'm at [Bergen County], getting my black sash in Shaolin White Crane Long Fist [one more year, approx.] and then checking out. GF and I want to settle in the desert somewhere in the South West.

809 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:34:56am

re: #794 HoosierHoops

LOL He follows me everywhere I go..Which at first was wierd cause I'd forget about him and almost walk over him...If I go to the bathroom he sits outside the door in case he is needed..I tell him he is ate up..

One of our dogs is like that with my wife. He also had the habit of jumping up on the chair behind her. Until she was about to sit on the toilet. He jumped out, wet, shook off, and never did it again.

810 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:35:09am

re: #789 Gang of One

... Helen Reddy ...

The Captain & Tennille
:D

811 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:35:20am

re: #786 vxbush

re: #779 Spenser (with an S)

My brother works for a company that makes "Nutraceuticals", concentrated oat bran, cranberries, etc. in a pharmaceutical-grade form.

I've heard of those, but I'll be honest; my skeptical self doesn't see much difference between that product and regular oat brain, cranberries, etc. once they get past the stomach. It's all going to break down into the same basic components.

As I understand it, it's a matter of volume. Two Tbls. soluble oat bran = 3 bowls of oatmeal, e.g. but I don't get a commission or anything.

812 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:35:28am

re: #798 Pianobuff

What are your favs?

I prefer the Caribbean...but the best beaches in the US are in the Florida gulf...Perdido, Gulf Islands...in there

813 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:35:29am

re: #797 Kenneth

Then read The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. It describes the Marxist concept of Socialism very well.

And then there is this little paper by one J.V Stalin

There are thousands of essays by Marxists in which they define Socialism as a phase in the economic transition to Communism. That concept is the foundation of Marxism.

Now the point you have been making is that Western "Socialism" (i.e. social democrats) does not lead to totalitarianism, I do agree with. No country that was ever governed by a social democratic gov't ever became Communist or Totalitarian. But not for want of trying. Consider how close post war Socialist France came to being run by the Communists. Same thing in Italy and Greece.

My only point was the same as you make. Not for want, but it doesn't work. Being run by communist does not equate with totalitarianism.

Having a communist like Stalin, who went far beyond the principles of communism, now, that's totalitarianism.

814 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:36:35am

re: #808 Gang of One

Yah, not too crazy for about Jersey, but I've committed myself to getting at least three years teaching in the school I'm at [Bergen County], getting my black sash in Shaolin White Crane Long Fist [one more year, approx.] and then checking out. GF and I want to settle in the desert somewhere in the South West.

now your talking, Albuquerque is great

815 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:36:35am

re: #790 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that make all of us drug addicts?

It sure does, and I have this little pudge to prove it! ha I really don't think food is considered a drug, I could be wrong and vx will correct me. How you doing today mad? I'm surprised there isn't a pun thread going.

816 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:36:53am

re: #805 Pianobuff

I know Lake Hopatcong awfully well. Reminds me of many good times in my younger years.

Bertrands Islan - nickel night, two times a week.

817 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:37:01am

re: #800 freetoken

Brilliant. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

The idea of illustrating in real time a story or a piece of music was experimented with some time ago.

There was an charcoal artist by the name of Lisl Weil who did that (though the subject was not as personally dramatic as that done by your Ukranian find.) See: [Link: www.archive.org...]

Very cool.

818 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:37:06am

re: #812 albusteve

I prefer the Caribbean...but the best beaches in the US are in the Florida gulf...Perdido, Gulf Islands...in there

Sugar sand beaches.

819 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:37:10am

re: #812 albusteve

I prefer the Caribbean...but the best beaches in the US are in the Florida gulf...Perdido, Gulf Islands...in there

No way..Hawaii has the best beaches in America..
:) Good morning steve..How'd the Cowboys look last night?

820 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:37:33am

re: #798 Pianobuff

What are your favs?

If I may be so bold, MI beaches are among the most beautiful I've seen. White sand, bigger waves than you'd imagine, and all fresh water.

/please come up, we need the tourism $.

821 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:37:37am

re: #772 Killgore Trout

That was really incredible. Thank you for sharing it.

822 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:37:37am

re: #815 turn

It sure does, and I have this little pudge to prove it! ha I really don't think food is considered a drug, I could be wrong and vx will correct me. How you doing today mad? I'm surprised there isn't a pun thread going.

I'm doing well. There was a pun thread earlier this morning. I might have to cast out my line and catch it again.

823 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:37:44am

re: #772 Killgore Trout

Kseniya Simonova - Sand Animation (Україн& #x0430; має талант / Ukraine's Got Talent)


Pretty impressive. The audience actually starts crying at one point.

Oh my god, this is incredibly good. If people haven't watched it, DO! It's the story of the Ukraine in ww2. amazing.

824 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:38:18am

re: #792 albusteve

NJ beaches are way down the list for me...hardly included in the best in the US let alone the world...I guess it depends on what a beach is

Unfortunately, I have not seen a whole lot of beaches -- seen beaches on the Mediterranean, the Pacific, The Gulf of Mexico, Jersey, Florida. I like what I've seen here in Monmouth County only if for the summer carnival atmosphere. It's more of a fun thing than it is an aesthetic thing.

825 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:38:18am

re: #801 turn

I looked up drug in the dictionary, I don't see anything applying to food.

The American Oxford Dictionary defines drug as follows (shortened):

a substance that has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body

Food definitely has an effect on the body.

826 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:38:22am

re: #812 albusteve

I prefer the Caribbean...but the best beaches in the US are in the Florida gulf...Perdido, Gulf Islands...in there


ahhh, i love the caribbean, go at least twice a year. next trip over thanksgiving for 14 days, St Martin, french side at Orient.

827 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:38:36am

re: #822 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'm doing well. There was a pun thread earlier this morning. I might have to cast out my line and catch it again.


You're floundering now.

828 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:38:54am

re: #767 calcajun

Remind me again of the definition of "insanity"?

It's when you commit a horrific crime and don't want to be held responsible.

829 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:39:04am

re: #819 HoosierHoops

No way..Hawaii has the best beaches in America..
:) Good morning steve..How'd the Cowboys look last night?

awful, terrible, and pitiful...but their starting offense is going to surprise people

830 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:39:06am

re: #823 iceweasel

Oh my god, this is incredibly good. If people haven't watched it, DO! It's the story of the Ukraine in ww2. amazing.

Oh, is that what it is? I will freely admit, I didn't get it. But it was fascinating as an art form and as entertainment.

831 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:39:11am

re: #815 turn

It sure does, and I have this little pudge to prove it! ha I really don't think food is considered a drug, I could be wrong and vx will correct me. How you doing today mad? I'm surprised there isn't a pun thread going.


we had one on fish earlier but it swam by ya

832 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:39:17am

re: #803 Kosh's Shadow

It works for cat food.
"Look what the cat drug in."

haha Hey kosh, I think I finally understand how galaxies can appear to be receding at faster than the speed of light. It was so simple, that's probably why I didn't get it at first. ha

833 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:39:22am

re: #825 vxbush

Food definitely has an effect on the body.

It has surely has mine.
;-)

834 Mithrax  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:39:24am

re: #810 redstateredneck

The Captain & Tennille
:D

I suggested to my Fiancee that our first dance should be to Muskrat Love.

835 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:39:36am

re: #827 redstateredneck

You're floundering now.

Maybe if this morning I first stopped at a bar a cudda done better.

836 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:39:38am

re: #816 Walter L. Newton

Bertrands Islan - nickel night, two times a week.

Heh. Nickel night? I'm not so sure about that anymore. It's probably been about 12 years or so since I was out there. Friend of mine had a boat. Lot's of shoreline considering the actual area of the lake.

837 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:40:00am

re: #823 iceweasel

Oh my god, this is incredibly good. If people haven't watched it, DO! It's the story of the Ukraine in ww2. amazing.


Huffpo had it posted for a day or two but I kept ignoring it. I'm glad I finally took the time to watch it. Very impressive.

838 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:40:01am

re: #823 iceweasel

Oh my god, this is incredibly good. If people haven't watched it, DO! It's the story of the Ukraine in ww2. amazing.

It even moved me to the edge of tears.

839 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:40:22am

re: #834 Mithrax

I suggested to my Fiancee that our first dance should be to Muskrat Love.

and that's when she hit you?

840 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:40:32am

re: #827 redstateredneck

You're floundering now.

I think another fish pun thread will make some people eel. Maybe give them a haddock.

841 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:40:58am

re: #809 Kosh's Shadow

One of our dogs is like that with my wife. He also had the habit of jumping up on the chair behind her. Until she was about to sit on the toilet. He jumped out, wet, shook off, and never did it again.

too funny! The little dogs follow the turnwife around all day.

842 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:41:17am

re: #812 albusteve

I prefer the Caribbean...but the best beaches in the US are in the Florida gulf...Perdido, Gulf Islands...in there

I love the Caribbean too. Whereabouts are your favorites there? We're hitting French Polynesia at the end of the year so I can't wait to check out those beaches.

843 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:41:19am

re: #836 Pianobuff

Heh. Nickel night? I'm not so sure about that anymore. It's probably been about 12 years or so since I was out there. Friend of mine had a boat. Lot's of shoreline considering the actual area of the lake.

Bertrands Island had a traditional American amusement park on it, build in the early part of the 19 hundreds. It went away in I think 1983 or so. I go way back to the 60's at Lake Hopatcong.

Shoreline is 52 miles, largest lake in New Jersey (at least in the 1960's).

844 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:41:22am

re: #820 Spenser (with an S)

If I may be so bold, MI beaches are among the most beautiful I've seen. White sand, bigger waves than you'd imagine, and all fresh water.

/please come up, we need the tourism $.


we used to anchor our boat just off saugatuk when i lived in chicago, what a beautiful place it was. my wife wants to go back and visit this fall love the art colony there

845 Mithrax  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:41:24am

re: #839 redstateredneck

and that's when she hit you?

Actually no, she's got a great sense of humour so she laughed, THEN smacked me :P

846 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:41:55am

re: #812 albusteve

I prefer the Caribbean...but the best beaches in the US are in the Florida gulf...Perdido, Gulf Islands...in there

The Caribebean! Yes, on the Yucatan Peninsula ... Quintana Roo, Yucatan -- awesome.

847 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:42:04am

re: #826 apachegunner

ahhh, i love the caribbean, go at least twice a year. next trip over thanksgiving for 14 days, St Martin, french side at Orient.

Jamaica for me

848 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:42:33am

re: #787 apachegunner

yes, but,but Jersey? ewww (sorry about that any jersey lizards but why are ya still there?)

I understand, but I'd say some of the beaches on the Jersey Shore are as beautiful, or more so, than many other famous beaches. (That is, when medical waste isn't washing up on them).

Then again, I haven't been to beaches in Australia yet, or Bali. Have been to some very famous ones though, and the Jersey Shore really is amazing.

849 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:43:17am

re: #843 Walter L. Newton

Bertrands Island had a traditional American amusement park on it, build in the early part of the 19 hundreds. It went away in I think 1983 or so. I go way back to the 60's at Lake Hopatcong.

Shoreline is 52 miles, largest lake in New Jersey (at least in the 1960's).

Still the larges AFAIK. I thought there would actually be more shoreline, considering how so much of it are spoons of land and water.

Bertrands Island, IIRC, also had wooden rollercoaster.

850 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:43:24am

re: #814 apachegunner

now your talking, Albuquerque is great

We have discussed Albuquerque, Taos and Phoenix, AZ.

851 Charpete67  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:43:26am

I don't think we will be a communist country, but I pulled this list from the Wiki page of the communist manifesto - [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


10 Conditions For Transition To Communism

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equal distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.[7]

just some food for thought.

852 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:43:39am

re: #744 Sharmuta

The current gov'ts of Canada and France are not led by Socialist Parties. In fact, Canada never had a Socialist federal gov't, although in the 1970's the Liberals certainly leaned to the left. What happens is that governments introduce socialist programs (ie. medicare). Typically, once a gov't program is started, it never stops. Even subsequent conservative gov't's do not dismantle all the existing socialist programs. The programs are tweaked and adjusted, but never scrapped.

Which is why today, countries like the UK, France & Germany all have quasi-socialist-corporate-consumerist economies. Political dialecticalism of the Western democratic states have created new forms of economic organization never imagined by Marx or Hegel.

853 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:43:56am

Hiya, Lizard Nation?

Hope everybody is having a good day in Lizardia!

As for the theme of this OT:

'More people are killed every year by pigs than by sharks, which shows you how good we are at evaluating risk.
— Bruce Schneier' ...
weeelll - its the revenge of the pigs, innit, like? Tit-for-tat, seeing how we kill so many of them ...

:-)

854 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:44:04am

re: #844 apachegunner

we used to anchor our boat just off saugatuk when i lived in chicago, what a beautiful place it was. my wife wants to go back and visit this fall love the art colony there

spent alot of time around there...MI has some excellent beaches and harbors etc...

855 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:44:11am

re: #838 Sharmuta

It even moved me to the edge of tears.

Yep, me too. Amazing.

856 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:44:12am

re: #848 iceweasel

I understand, but I'd say some of the beaches on the Jersey Shore are as beautiful, or more so, than many other famous beaches. (That is, when medical waste isn't washing up on them).

Then again, I haven't been to beaches in Australia yet, or Bali. Have been to some very famous ones though, and the Jersey Shore really is amazing.

As a teen, we always used to hit Seaside Heights. Fun boardwalk, at least then. Not sure what it's like there these days.

857 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:44:22am

re: #753 Kenneth

Oh for crying out loud! Stalin had zero education in the military arts and until he became Secretary General of the USSR, and declred himself "Marshal" he never held rank in any army. His idiocy as a military Commander in Chief exceeded even Hitler's.

He was a Marxist-Leninist Communist. No escaping that fact. He was also ruthless, paranoid and a towering Narcissist. Communism seems to attract that sort of person.

Although, even Churchhill gave great respect to Stalin's ability to understand the implications of extremely complicated military operations. Regarding I think, the telling of the proposed invasion of N. Africa to Stalin and his reaction, Churchill said that Stalin was one of the few men alive who could have so quickly and thouoghly understood the military and political consequences of this operation.

858 vxbush  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:44:47am

Rats. Work beckons. Can't ignore it any longer.

859 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:45:08am

re: #850 Gang of One

We have discussed Albuquerque, Taos and Phoenix, AZ.

Taos?...are you an artist?

860 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:45:17am

re: #848 iceweasel

I understand, but I'd say some of the beaches on the Jersey Shore are as beautiful, or more so, than many other famous beaches. (That is, when medical waste isn't washing up on them).

Then again, I haven't been to beaches in Australia yet, or Bali. Have been to some very famous ones though, and the Jersey Shore really is amazing.


I'm sticking with Hawaii...
Good morning Ice! Have you seen the google homepage yet..What the heck does it mean? Today is electricity day or something?

861 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:45:21am

re: #821 Sharmuta

That was really incredible. Thank you for sharing it.

wow, if anybody missed it you have to check out KT's link. awesome

862 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:45:22am

re: #837 Killgore Trout

I really liked her dramatic flair too, and seeing her in the moment of her own work. Really amazing way to start the morning, KT. Thanks.

863 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:45:55am

re: #848 iceweasel

I understand, but I'd say some of the beaches on the Jersey Shore are as beautiful, or more so, than many other famous beaches. (That is, when medical waste isn't washing up on them).

Then again, I haven't been to beaches in Australia yet, or Bali. Have been to some very famous ones though, and the Jersey Shore really is amazing.


we have run the gautlet of the leeward and windward islands from aruba to st johns. love dominica, guadalope, st bart, st martin, anguilla, and many, many more.

864 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:46:27am

re: #860 HoosierHoops

I'm sticking with Hawaii...
Good morning Ice! Have you seen the google homepage yet..What the heck does it mean? Today is electricity day or something?

My wife's family lives out there. Mainly Kauai, but on the other islands too. Have a favorite island?

865 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:46:30am

re: #812 albusteve

Anyone been to the Dominican Republic? I'm going there next week and have never been.

866 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:47:05am

re: #859 albusteve

Taos?...are you an artist?

I play the bass, but not as much as before.

867 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:47:41am

re: #863 apachegunner

we have run the gautlet of the leeward and windward islands from aruba to st johns. love dominica, guadalope, st bart, st martin, anguilla, and many, many more.

Dominica is pretty light on sand beaches IIRC. Great for snorkeling, scuba, and other nature stuff though.

868 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:47:42am

re: #849 Pianobuff

Still the larges AFAIK. I thought there would actually be more shoreline, considering how so much of it are spoons of land and water.

Bertrands Island, IIRC, also had wooden rollercoaster.

Yep, the "Shoot the Sky" coaster. Built in 1923 if I remember. It was an "out and back." Had a fire in the engine house under the main hill in the early 70's. Destroyed the mail lift hill and a tunnel of love that ran beneath it.

They hired some local carpenters to rebuild the main lift hill. That was scary.

869 midwestgak  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:47:52am

bbl. Off to get my car re-shod.

870 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:47:53am

re: #822 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'm doing well. There was a pun thread earlier this morning. I might have to cast out my line and catch it again.

ha ha, those fish pun threads seem to be a reefoccurring theme here at LGF.

871 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:48:03am

re: #813 Walter L. Newton

I disagree. Communism, or Marxism-Leninism - is essentially Totalitarian. Stalin was not a fluke, he was inevitable. Every country that became Communist was also Totalitarian in government.

USSR, Eastern Europe, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Cuba.

872 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:48:03am

So you don't have to scroll back up- here is Killgore's comment:

Kseniya Simonova - Sand Animation

873 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:48:09am

re: #862 Sharmuta

She makes it look so easy.

874 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:48:09am

re: #866 Gang of One

I play the bass, but not as much as before.

not much going on in Taos...nice place if you're wealthy I suppose

875 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:48:14am

re: #865 Flyers1974

Anyone been to the Dominican Republic? I'm going there next week and have never been.

word is it's great, especially the west coast

876 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:48:20am

re: #859 albusteve

Taos?...are you an artist?

Forgot to add that I'm a Special Ed teacher in high school now.

877 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:48:51am

re: #868 Walter L. Newton

Yep, the "Shoot the Sky" coaster. Built in 1923 if I remember. It was an "out and back." Had a fire in the engine house under the main hill in the early 70's. Destroyed the mail lift hill and a tunnel of love that ran beneath it.

They hired some local carpenters to rebuild the main lift hill. That was scary.

And I remember that fire being in the local news. Wow - having a flashback here. Where did you work in Morris County?

878 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:49:26am

re: #820 Spenser (with an S)

If I may be so bold, MI beaches are among the most beautiful I've seen. White sand, bigger waves than you'd imagine, and all fresh water.

/please come up, we need the tourism $.

Not quite so bold at all, but always overlooked by critics. There are some amazing beaches in the state. One I've visited often (including last Sunday) is Warren Dunes. It's selcuded from the main highways, has several huge dunes in the background, routinely clean, and powderly soft sand. Gets very busy on hot days (I'll bet the state makes money hand-over-fist from out of staters those days), but always friendly.

879 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:49:39am

re: #864 Pianobuff

My wife's family lives out there. Mainly Kauai, but on the other islands too. Have a favorite island?

I worked at Pearl for 3 years...I didn't do alot of island hopping..too busy laying on the beach working on my tan watching the beautiful women walk by...or working...

880 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:50:14am

re: #825 vxbush

Food definitely has an effect on the body.

Tell me about it, you ever looked at my belly?

881 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:50:17am

I see you're talking beaches ...
We got some pretty good'uns in Wales as well, like this one!

As for me - I definitely prefer the rocky shores! Much more to do and see. (And yep, we have lots and lots and lots of those in Wales!)

882 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:50:30am

re: #860 HoosierHoops

I'm sticking with Hawaii...
Good morning Ice! Have you seen the google homepage yet..What the heck does it mean? Today is electricity day or something?

Hiya, Hoops. Good to see you! and to know that Winston is ok. :)

in re: google-- apparently so! [Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Hans Chistian Orsted's bday

I've only been to a couple of the Hawaiian islands. (3, i think)
I loved them and the snorkeling is AWESOME but the Jersey shore is still pretty damn cool.
You were stationed there, I think? Pearl Harbor? Still one of the most beautiful and moving memorials I've ever been to...though the Wall in DC makes me cry too, every time.

883 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:50:30am

re: #879 HoosierHoops

I worked at Pearl for 3 years...I didn't do alot of island hopping..too busy laying on the beach working on my tan watching the beautiful women walk by...or working...

Those islands are just beautiful. Makes me want a vacation now.

884 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:50:40am

re: #871 Kenneth

I disagree. Communism, or Marxism-Leninism - is essentially Totalitarian. Stalin was not a fluke, he was inevitable. Every country that became Communist was also Totalitarian in government.

USSR, Eastern Europe, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Cuba.

Sorry, I mistyped, I should have said socialism, not communism. My fault.

885 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:50:43am

re: #844 apachegunner

re: #820 Spenser (with an S)

If I may be so bold, MI beaches are among the most beautiful I've seen. White sand, bigger waves than you'd imagine, and all fresh water.

/please come up, we need the tourism $.


we used to anchor our boat just off saugatuk when i lived in chicago, what a beautiful place it was. my wife wants to go back and visit this fall love the art colony there

Saugutuck is beautiful. I think it was their Oval beach that won a "most beautiful beach" award a couple of years ago.

886 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:51:11am

re: #865 Flyers1974

Anyone been to the Dominican Republic? I'm going there next week and have never been.

Could you pick up some Steriods for me while you are there.. I'll call ahead and place the order...
/

887 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:51:23am

re: #860 HoosierHoops

I'm sticking with Hawaii...
Good morning Ice! Have you seen the google homepage yet..What the heck does it mean? Today is electricity day or something?

I wondered that myself and clicked on the logo. Here's the first hit I got:

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

888 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:51:28am

re: #860 HoosierHoops

I'm sticking with Hawaii...
Good morning Ice! Have you seen the google homepage yet..What the heck does it mean? Today is electricity day or something?

Clicked on the picture and found out it's about Hans Christian Orsted.

889 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:51:37am

re: #831 apachegunner

we had one on fish earlier but it swam by ya

Oh I saw it and waved.

890 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:51:50am

re: #881 yma o hyd

I see you're talking beaches ...
We got some pretty good'uns in Wales as well, like this one!

As for me - I definitely prefer the rocky shores! Much more to do and see. (And yep, we have lots and lots and lots of those in Wales!)


Would like to visit again someday - was there briefly in 1987 checking out your famous castles

891 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:52:26am

re: #791 taxfreekiller

10. Every one would love taxfreekiller for solving the problems.

I wouldn't go that far.//

892 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:52:33am

re: #878 Honorary Yooper

Yep, I've been to Warren Dunes. Lots of fun climbing and then running down.

893 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:52:56am

re: #876 Gang of One

Forgot to add that I'm a Special Ed teacher in high school now.

cool...NM needs teachers I imagine...you should snoop around out here and see for yourself...folks out here are different

894 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:53:15am

re: #857 Flyers1974

Although, even Churchhill gave great respect to Stalin's ability to understand the implications of extremely complicated military operations. Regarding I think, the telling of the proposed invasion of N. Africa to Stalin and his reaction, Churchill said that Stalin was one of the few men alive who could have so quickly and thouoghly understood the military and political consequences of this operation.

Stalin certainly understood power. When Great Britain decided to fight the Italians, and later the Germans, in North Africa, Stalin understood that he would have a free hand in Eastern Europe. Remember, Romell was fighting the British in North Africa before Germany attacked the USSR in Operation Barbarossa. Stalin's concern was that Britain would land in Greece and fight up the Balkans. Germany was also worried about that.

895 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:53:44am

re: #881 yma o hyd

I see you're talking beaches ...
We got some pretty good'uns in Wales as well, like this one!

As for me - I definitely prefer the rocky shores! Much more to do and see. (And yep, we have lots and lots and lots of those in Wales!)

That is gorgeous.

896 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:54:10am

re: #863 apachegunner

we have run the gautlet of the leeward and windward islands from aruba to st johns. love dominica, guadalope, st bart, st martin, anguilla, and many, many more.

Oh wonderful-- so many places I haven't been to. Been to st martin and anguilla though. I loved anguilla. The whole island, not just the beaches.

897 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:54:24am

re: #877 Pianobuff

And I remember that fire being in the local news. Wow - having a flashback here. Where did you work in Morris County?

Morristown, Beneficial Finance headquarters, a real office boy, went from high school graduation on Friday to work on Monday. Never went to college. The school system found me the job. The state of New Jersey had a contract out on my head and made sure I never entered a school in that state again.

Actually not that bad, but I didn't like school, didn't want to go to college and make my own life from that point on. Went from finance to printed circuit board designer to computer programmer.

Now, at the age of 56, under-employed in my other expertise, live theatre.

898 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:54:27am

re: #850 Gang of One

We have discussed Albuquerque, Taos and Phoenix, AZ.

Two outta three ain't bad. I don't know why anyone wants to live in Phoenix (except maybe a lizard!) It's like Los Angeles without the ocean, and that's not good.

899 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:55:01am

I haven't been to the beach in a few years. My next beach trip is to Ocean City, MD in late September. I have a festival gig there. Since I have to take that whole Friday off, I'm planning to spend most of the weekend there. I'll probably spend more in hotel and gas costs than I'll make, but it will be nice to have a mini-working vacation.

900 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:55:23am

re: #835 Mad Al-Jaffee

Maybe if this morning I first stopped at a bar a cudda done better.

Yeah, you could have perched yourself on a bar school and yelled out "hey bartender, a shot of sturgeon please!"

901 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:55:45am

re: #884 Walter L. Newton

Political labels cause great confusion and needless arguments. To be more precise, people should distinguish between Marxist Socialism and Social Democracy.

902 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:55:49am

re: #882 iceweasel

Hiya, Hoops. Good to see you! and to know that Winston is ok. :)

in re: google-- apparently so! [Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Hans Chistian Orsted's bday

I've only been to a couple of the Hawaiian islands. (3, i think)
I loved them and the snorkeling is AWESOME but the Jersey shore is still pretty damn cool.
You were stationed there, I think? Pearl Harbor? Still one of the most beautiful and moving memorials I've ever been to...though the Wall in DC makes me cry too, every time.

I worked for the DOD as a civilian building/repairing Nuclear Subs for the Navy...
You know..Those stupid lazy Government workers...Ever seen how many reactors we melted down? Littered on the ocean floor..LOL

903 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:56:06am

re: #897 Walter L. Newton

Morristown, Beneficial Finance headquarters, a real office boy, went from high school graduation on Friday to work on Monday. Never went to college. The school system found me the job. The state of New Jersey had a contract out on my head and made sure I never entered a school in that state again.

Actually not that bad, but I didn't like school, didn't want to go to college and make my own life from that point on. Went from finance to printed circuit board designer to computer programmer.

Now, at the age of 56, under-employed in my other expertise, live theatre.

I grew up a few miles west of Morristown. I'm trying to remember where Beneficial was... was it right off the square? I wonder if the Community Theatre in MoTown is still functioning.

904 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:56:31am

re: #899 Mad Al-Jaffee

I haven't been to the beach in a few years. My next beach trip is to Ocean City, MD in late September. I have a festival gig there. Since I have to take that whole Friday off, I'm planning to spend most of the weekend there. I'll probably spend more in hotel and gas costs than I'll make, but it will be nice to have a mini-working vacation.

What do you play?

905 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:56:31am

re: #874 albusteve

not much going on in Taos...nice place if you're wealthy I suppose

Skiing. Tourism. the Pueblo.

906 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:56:35am

re: #893 albusteve

cool...NM needs teachers I imagine...you should snoop around out here and see for yourself...folks out here are different

I want very much to make a trip down there and take a look around. I speak fluent Spanish, so I guess I'd feel at home. I prefer hot and dry, and the GF loves the desert -- she's been down that way. Hopefully, I will do some South West exploring this school year.

907 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:57:12am

re: #840 Kosh's Shadow

I think another fish pun thread will make some people eel. Maybe give them a haddock.

You're no fin kosh, such a crab.

908 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:57:32am

re: #885 Spenser (with an S)

Saugutuck is beautiful. I think it was their Oval beach that won a "most beautiful beach" award a couple of years ago.

we used to hang out in the area of Thunder Mt etc, before it became a State Park, partying, sleeping on the beach...had alot of fun back in the day at the big lake

909 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:57:32am

re: #881 yma o hyd

I see you're talking beaches ...
We got some pretty good'uns in Wales as well, like this one!

As for me - I definitely prefer the rocky shores! Much more to do and see. (And yep, we have lots and lots and lots of those in Wales!)

Very beautiful, yma o hyd... If you like rocky shores, you would love these.

910 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:57:48am

re: #900 turn

Yeah, you could have perched yourself on a bar school and yelled out "hey bartender, a shot of sturgeon please!"

And I could have asked for a screwdriver - always handy to have in your tackle box.

911 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:57:57am

re: #898 wrenchwench

Two outta three ain't bad. I don't know why anyone wants to live in Phoenix (except maybe a lizard!) It's like Los Angeles without the ocean, and that's not good.

Hmmm. Will make a mental note of that. Thanks.

912 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:58:04am

re: #901 Kenneth

Political labels cause great confusion and needless arguments. To be more precise, people should distinguish between Marxist Socialism and Social Democracy.

I'd be happy if people could start distinguishing between a marxist and a democrat.

913 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:58:23am

re: #903 Pianobuff

I grew up a few miles west of Morristown. I'm trying to remember where Beneficial was... was it right off the square? I wonder if the Community Theatre in MoTown is still functioning.

South side of town. I don't remember the address. Beneficial is now owned by HSBC, so I suspect that the HQ is not even there anymore. It was a BIG 4 story colonial styled building, with columns out front, two wings off to each side, typical of a lot of the building there.

914 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:58:52am

re: #912 Sharmuta

I'd be happy if people could start distinguishing between a marxist and a democrat.

It might be easier if the Democrats weren't close to acting like Marxists.

915 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:58:56am

re: #890 Leonidas Hoplite

Would like to visit again someday - was there briefly in 1987 checking out your famous castles

Do visit again! Well worth it - even though most of those castles were build by the Normans and English ...

Mind - there are some incredible Iron Age hillforts, especially in North Wales: bit of a climb, but well worth it!

Here's one - its on the peak on the right: Yr Eiffl

916 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:58:59am

re: #904 Pianobuff

What do you play?

Harmonica, mainly Blues.

917 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:59:04am

re: #892 Spenser (with an S)

Yep, I've been to Warren Dunes. Lots of fun climbing and then running down.

Came across a site with some pictures from there.

Chicago Skyline
Ovelooking the Lake from the dunes
Sunset from the dunes

918 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:59:14am

I think I've figured out why I've recieved no mail other than junk for the past few days. It appears that The Kid, in an attempt to keep me from getting any e-mails from his teachers, has designated her address and a whole slew of addresses from people with whom I'm in frequent/recent contact as spam.

Sometimes I could just scream.

919 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:59:44am

re: #853 yma o hyd

Hiya, Lizard Nation?

Hope everybody is having a good day in Lizardia!

As for the theme of this OT:

'More people are killed every year by pigs than by sharks, which shows you how good we are at evaluating risk.
— Bruce Schneier' ...
weeelll - its the revenge of the pigs, innit, like? Tit-for-tat, seeing how we kill so many of them ...

:-)

{yma} long time no see. This will put you way up thread like me but it's worth a look

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

920 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:59:50am

re: #914 Kosh's Shadow

It might be easier if the Democrats weren't close to acting like Marxists.

Except they're acting like socialists, not marxists. There is a difference between socialism and communism.

921 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:59:52am

re: #913 Walter L. Newton

South side of town. I don't remember the address. Beneficial is now owned by HSBC, so I suspect that the HQ is not even there anymore. It was a BIG 4 story colonial styled building, with columns out front, two wings off to each side, typical of a lot of the building there.

Yup. Lots of landmarks out there. Ford Mansion, Ft. Nonsense, Jockey Hollow, Tempe Wicke House, etc.

You're not rich if your house doesn't look old...(at least in some places out there)

922 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:00:28am

re: #895 Gang of One

That is gorgeous.

It truly is!
And on the grassy tops there are usually sheep ...

923 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:00:35am

re: #916 Mad Al-Jaffee

Harmonica, mainly Blues.

Cool. Chromatic?

924 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:00:41am

re: #918 MandyManners

It appears that The Kid, in an attempt to keep me from getting any e-mails from his teachers, has designated her address and a whole slew of addresses from people with whom I'm in frequent/recent contact as spam.

No way! Wow, hasn't he only been in school a few days?

925 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:03am

re: #905 iceweasel

Skiing. Tourism. the Pueblo.

thinking job market, rather than pleasure

926 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:12am

These fish puns are all made by Flaukes

and this is the typical summer flounder for all of them

927 KansasMom  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:17am

re: #918 MandyManners

I think I've figured out why I've recieved no mail other than junk for the past few days. It appears that The Kid, in an attempt to keep me from getting any e-mails from his teachers, has designated her address and a whole slew of addresses from people with whom I'm in frequent/recent contact as spam.

Sometimes I could just scream.

Uh-oh. Clever and ornery are a difficult combination!

928 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:20am

re: #918 MandyManners

I think I've figured out why I've recieved no mail other than junk for the past few days. It appears that The Kid, in an attempt to keep me from getting any e-mails from his teachers, has designated her address and a whole slew of addresses from people with whom I'm in frequent/recent contact as spam.

Sometimes I could just scream.

That reminds me of when I was a kid and I knew the teacher was going to call my parents at home. I would take the phone off the hook so the teacher would get a busy signal every time she called. Sounds like you have a clever kid!

929 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:28am

re: #904 Pianobuff

[Link: www.hopatcong.org...]

930 Gang of One  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:33am

Well, gotta go and repair part of dad's underground sprinkler system. It's easy, fun and it saves him mucho dinero. He likes that.

BBL.

931 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:44am

re: #912 Sharmuta

I'd be happy if people could start distinguishing between a marxist and a democrat.

So would I, but what can you expect when the opposition party's idea of a smart move is introducing a resolution to force the Democratic Party to call itself the "Socialist Democrat Party"?

932 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:44am

re: #921 Pianobuff

[Link: www.hopatcong.org...]

933 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:53am

re: #918 MandyManners

Devious. You should password your computer access so he won't do that again. :)

934 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:01:57am
935 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:02:05am

re: #886 HoosierHoops

Could you pick up some Steriods for me while you are there.. I'll call ahead and place the order...
/

This was lost on me at first, had to google it. Good one.

936 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:02:15am

re: #918 MandyManners

I think I've figured out why I've recieved no mail other than junk for the past few days. It appears that The Kid, in an attempt to keep me from getting any e-mails from his teachers, has designated her address and a whole slew of addresses from people with whom I'm in frequent/recent contact as spam.

Sometimes I could just scream.

LOL! Smart kid, but he didn't count on the computer savvy of his mother.

937 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:02:29am

re: #918 MandyManners

I think I've figured out why I've recieved no mail other than junk for the past few days. It appears that The Kid, in an attempt to keep me from getting any e-mails from his teachers, has designated her address and a whole slew of addresses from people with whom I'm in frequent/recent contact as spam.

Sometimes I could just scream.


Good Morning Mandy.. Sounds like the kid has a future in IT.
/ahhh..It's so cute watching the little hacker become a man

938 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:02:34am

re: #931 iceweasel

So would I, but what can you expect when the opposition party's idea of a smart move is introducing a resolution to force the Democratic Party to call itself the "Socialist Democrat Party"?

I would go along with that proposition.

939 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:02:34am

re: #931 iceweasel

re: #912 Sharmuta


So would I, but what can you expect when the opposition party's idea of a smart move is introducing a resolution to force the Democratic Party to call itself the "Socialist Democrat Party"?

Maybe you should be pleased your side didn't fall such trickery

/laugh

940 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:02:40am

re: #932 Walter L. Newton

[Link: www.hopatcong.org...]

The shot of the castle is great!

941 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:02:59am

re: #923 Pianobuff

Cool. Chromatic?

A little, but mainly diatonic. I can sort of find my way around the chromatic, but (like most blues players) I play it like it's a big diatonic. I do play some melodies and horn parts with my band on the chromatic - maybe on about 5 songs so far.

942 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:03:05am

fall to, that is

943 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:03:40am

re: #881 yma o hyd

I see you're talking beaches ...
We got some pretty good'uns in Wales as well, like this one!

As for me - I definitely prefer the rocky shores! Much more to do and see. (And yep, we have lots and lots and lots of those in Wales!)


I'm with you on the rocky beach thing yma, which is why I prefer northern California beaches. And I've seen a lot of beaches in my life. New Zealand and Australia beaches are awesome too.

944 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:03:45am

re: #940 Pianobuff

I would love to fish from a turret

945 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:03:52am

re: #925 albusteve

thinking job market, rather than pleasure

Oh I know...I was thinking about the job market in Taos from the few times I've been. Tourism, right? Working the ski resorts, the art galleries, restaurants...

Don't get me wrong, I love New Mexico. Love it.

946 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:04:09am

re: #920 Sharmuta

Except they're acting like socialists, not marxists. There is a difference between socialism and communism.

Yes, I exaggerated.

947 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:04:19am

re: #945 iceweasel

re: #925 albusteve


Oh I know...I was thinking about the job market in Taos from the few times I've been. Tourism, right? Working the ski resorts, the art galleries, restaurants...

Don't get me wrong, I love New Mexico. Love it.

I also love New Mexico..very much so.

948 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:04:28am

re: #918 MandyManners

I think I've figured out why I've recieved no mail other than junk for the past few days. It appears that The Kid, in an attempt to keep me from getting any e-mails from his teachers, has designated her address and a whole slew of addresses from people with whom I'm in frequent/recent contact as spam.

Sometimes I could just scream.

Brilliant. I used to race home to intercept school progress reports from the mail before my mom got them.

949 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:05:07am

re: #941 Mad Al-Jaffee

A little, but mainly diatonic. I can sort of find my way around the chromatic, but (like most blues players) I play it like it's a big diatonic. I do play some melodies and horn parts with my band on the chromatic - maybe on about 5 songs so far.

Neat. Good luck with the gig!

950 Digital Display  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:05:08am

re: #943 turn

I'm with you on the rocky beach thing yma, which is why I prefer northern California beaches. And I've seen a lot of beaches in my life. New Zealand and Australia beaches are awesome too.

Goat's Rock in NorCal! been there?

951 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:05:25am

re: #918 MandyManners

I think I've figured out why I've recieved no mail other than junk for the past few days. It appears that The Kid, in an attempt to keep me from getting any e-mails from his teachers, has designated her address and a whole slew of addresses from people with whom I'm in frequent/recent contact as spam.

Sometimes I could just scream.

That's genious! I wish I could've done that when I was a kid, but everything was snail-mail back then.

Oh how much I could've gotten away with back in the day if it was all e-mail... I mean... naughty naughty kid!

952 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:05:35am

re: #909 Spenser (with an S)

Very beautiful, yma o hyd... If you like rocky shores, you would love these.

That is stunning indeed!

The rocky shores I'm most familiar with look like this!
I can happily spend all day there, turning voer every rock and pebble, looking into every rock pool.
I loved marine biology, especially the biology of rocky shores.

953 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:05:46am

re: #944 quiet man

I would love to fish from a turret

When I moved from NJ 12 years ago, Hopactong was just filled with bass boats. A bass boat in every cove.

954 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:06:23am

re: #950 HoosierHoops

re: #943 turn


Goat's Rock in NorCal! been there?

I knew a guy who always said "Goats rock!"..but they put him in jail for "helping one over a fence" or some such

955 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:06:52am

re: #953 Pianobuff

re: #944 quiet man


When I moved from NJ 12 years ago, Hopactong was just filled with bass boats. A bass boat in every cove.


sounds like heaven...

956 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:06:54am

re: #947 quiet man

I also love New Mexico..very much so.

Absolutely gorgeous state. It's really no wonder why so many artists have relocated there. I can't stand heat, but the NM landscape just knocks me out, every time.

957 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:07:33am

re: #951 MrSilverDragon

genius, not genious... sepllchcek is my freidn!

958 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:08:06am

re: #953 Pianobuff

When I moved from NJ 12 years ago, Hopactong was just filled with bass boats. A bass boat in every cove.

And in the winter, dozens of ice boats, zipping across the ice at up to 60 miles per hour. I had a friend with an ice boat. You don't know scary until you are in a sail boat with attached "ice skates", tilting around a curve at 40-50 miles per hour, and the tilt so extreme, that you head is 5-6 feet away from the ice.

Ice is hard, don't scrape along it with your body at 50 miles per hour.

959 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:08:44am

re: #949 Pianobuff

Thanks! We've been really busy this spring and summer. We've had around 20 gigs (mainly concerts and festivals) since May.

960 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:08:46am

re: #955 quiet man

sounds like heaven...

The lake was actually a smorgasbord of fish. The bassers were often after smallmouth, but the lake was full of pickerel, lake trout, etc. As an amateur angler, I never knew what would be on the end of my hook when I pulled it up.

961 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:09:03am

re: #956 iceweasel


all I can say is, spend the night in the desert a few times..((being very careful maybe with an experienced person))..and if you can ride a horse in the desert at night...do it.

It will chane your life...

962 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:09:28am

re: #948 Flyers1974

Brilliant. I used to race home to intercept school progress reports from the mail before my mom got them.

I used to make money forging signatures and absence notes for my fellow students.

I'd usually do it for free, but some insisted on paying me. That's Catholic school girls for you!

963 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:09:45am

re: #959 Mad Al-Jaffee

Thanks! We've been really busy this spring and summer. We've had around 20 gigs (mainly concerts and festivals) since May.

There will always be a good market for good blues, IMO. You gig mostly around MD?

964 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:10:05am

re: #894 Kenneth

Stalin certainly understood power. When Great Britain decided to fight the Italians, and later the Germans, in North Africa, Stalin understood that he would have a free hand in Eastern Europe. Remember, Romell was fighting the British in North Africa before Germany attacked the USSR in Operation Barbarossa. Stalin's concern was that Britain would land in Greece and fight up the Balkans. Germany was also worried about that.

Indeed, my fault. I'll have to check, It must have been in regard to advising Stalin about the proposed Operation Husky where Churchill made his observation.

965 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:10:11am

re: #919 turn

{yma} long time no see. This will put you way up thread like me but it's worth a look

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Thanks, {turn}!

I had a quick shufti (thats 'look' for you!) - will give it my undivided attention later.

Hows that Luke doing? Has he found anything else to paly with?
I know a Border Collie who carries a stick and a tennis ball in his mouth, the greedy hound!

966 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:10:23am

re: #960 Pianobuff
wow..I do love that..and I would try an ice boat in an instant if we had them/..too far south for that 'round here.

967 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:10:58am

re: #962 iceweasel

I used to make money forging signatures and absence notes for my fellow students.

I'd usually do it for free, but some insisted on paying me. That's Catholic school girls for you!

My forgeries fooled no one.

968 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:11:17am

re: #963 Pianobuff

There will always be a good market for good blues, IMO. You gig mostly around MD?

Yeah, the band is based in Baltimore. We occasionally play in DC, and we had our first Northern VA gigs last weekend. We're booked to play a festival in Florida this December. I don't know the details yet, but Florida in December sounds like a good idea to me.

969 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:11:19am

re: #952 yma o hyd

That is stunning indeed!

The rocky shores I'm most familiar with look like this!
I can happily spend all day there, turning voer every rock and pebble, looking into every rock pool.
I loved marine biology, especially the biology of rocky shores.

That would be fun. I love tidal pools.

970 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:11:31am

re: #899 Mad Al-Jaffee

I haven't been to the beach in a few years. My next beach trip is to Ocean City, MD in late September. I have a festival gig there. Since I have to take that whole Friday off, I'm planning to spend most of the weekend there. I'll probably spend more in hotel and gas costs than I'll make, but it will be nice to have a mini-working vacation.

I'm headed to Rehoboth, Delaware late next month. Never been there before and I'll be checking out the beaches for sure.

971 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:12:20am

re: #968 Mad Al-Jaffee

Yeah, the band is based in Baltimore. We occasionally play in DC, and we had our first Northern VA gigs last weekend. We're booked to play a festival in Florida this December. I don't know the details yet, but Florida in December sounds like a good idea to me.

Sounds like the way to go to me.

972 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:12:50am

I sold cinnamon toothpicks in my day..you bought a bottle of cinnamon
oil and a few boxes of picks, then soak em overnight and sell em.

973 lostlakehiker  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:13:27am
More people are killed every year by pigs than by sharks, which shows you how good we are at evaluating risk.

— Bruce Schneier


Yeah, right! Show me somebody who died of eating mercury contaminated pig fin soup!

974 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:13:45am

re: #912 Sharmuta

I'd be happy if people could start distinguishing between a marxist and a democrat.

If by that you mean the Democratic Party is not Marxist, then yes. But don't kid yourself, there are indeed a few Marxists in the Democratic Party, just as there are Marxists in the UK's Labour Party and Canada's NDP.

975 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:13:59am

re: #970 turn

I'm headed to Rehoboth, Delaware late next month. Never been there before and I'll be checking out the beaches for sure.

If you're there the weekend of Sep. 25, here's where we're playing (on the 25th). OC and Rehobeth are pretty close (I think - I haven't been to Rehobeth since I was a kid.)

[Link: www.atlanticbreezes.com...]

976 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:14:15am

re: #973 lostlakehiker
It would have to be a really old pig to have fins these days!!

977 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:14:15am

re: #961 quiet man

all I can say is, spend the night in the desert a few times..((being very careful maybe with an experienced person))..and if you can ride a horse in the desert at night...do it.

It will chane your life...

Youtube Video
978 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:14:41am

re: #969 Spenser (with an S)

That would be fun. I love tidal pools.

Best places to be, if you ask me!
And, as bonus, on the West coast of Wales the grey seals come in to breed - so in September/October you can see their babies.
If they are in a tiny cove where nobody can get down to, you can sometimes even hear them 'sing', when the mum is out in teh sea, getting food.

979 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:15:41am

re: #978 yma o hyd

Best places to be, if you ask me!
And, as bonus, on the West coast of Wales the grey seals come in to breed - so in September/October you can see their babies.
If they are in a tiny cove where nobody can get down to, you can sometimes even hear them 'sing', when the mum is out in teh sea, getting food.

You have to watch out for loose seals. They can bite your hand off!

980 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:16:34am

re: #977 Kosh's Shadow
You shoudl give your horse a name so when you say "whoa!" you can be specific.

they likw that in a master

981 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:16:34am

re: #967 Flyers1974

My forgeries fooled no one.

Heh...mine were so convincing that when someone turned me in, they demanded to know what adult male was doing it 'for' me.

Yes, the nuns really didn't believe I was capable of being that good a forger, and therefore the 15 yr old me must have some sinister college age (or older!) boyfriend doing it all.

(In fact, I did have a bf in college at the time, but he was dumber than I and I made some money writing papers for him and his fellow students.)

lol. True stories from iDub's life today. :)

982 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:16:56am

re: #974 Kenneth

If by that you mean the Democratic Party is not Marxist, then yes. But don't kid yourself, there are indeed a few Marxists in the Democratic Party, just as there are Marxists in the UK's Labour Party and Canada's NDP.

What I meant was distinguishing between a marxist and a democrat as in individuals and not parties. And that's what you did, though I'm not sure why my statement makes you think I'm kidding myself.

983 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:17:02am

damn I am out of time

back later

984 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:17:56am

re: #978 yma o hyd

My brother lives on an island off the coast of Vancouver. Seals, sea lions, bald eagles and otters are all common along shoreline tide pools. Paradise.

985 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:18:15am

re: #980 quiet man

You shoudl give your horse a name so when you say "whoa!" you can be specific.

I prefer to go through the desert on a horse with no name.

986 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:18:23am

re: #975 Mad Al-Jaffee

If you're there the weekend of Sep. 25, here's where we're playing (on the 25th). OC and Rehobeth are pretty close (I think - I haven't been to Rehobeth since I was a kid.)

[Link: www.atlanticbreezes.com...]

I've hung out at Dewey Beach a few times...there's a great road house there...the Bottle and Cork, loud and rowdy

987 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:18:31am

re: #962 iceweasel

I used to make money forging signatures and absence notes for my fellow students.

I'd usually do it for free, but some insisted on paying me. That's Catholic school girls for you!

heh..catholic girls at the CYO...lalalala...

Youtube Video
988 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:19:44am

I should say- it would also be nice if people could distinguish between a fascist and a conservative.

/Ya gotta have dreams.

989 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:19:51am

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

990 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:20:33am

re: #977 Kosh's Shadow

...alligator lizards in the air...

991 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:20:40am

re: #989 MandyManners

Boys will be boys.

992 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:20:52am

re: #979 Mad Al-Jaffee

You have to watch out for loose seals. They can bite your hand off!

Someone at a townhall had a sign saying "OBAMA! BRING BACK ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT!"

993 Flyers1974  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:20:55am

re: #986 albusteve

I've hung out at Dewey Beach a few times...there's a great road house there...the Bottle and Cork, loud and rowdy

Great place. Been there a few times myself.

994 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:21:11am

re: #989 MandyManners

Deleting the email is worse.

995 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:21:19am

re: #980 quiet man

You shoudl give your horse a name so when you say "whoa!" you can be specific.

they likw that in a master

I tried, but he couldn't hear me; I was a little hoarse at the time.

996 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:21:44am

re: #989 MandyManners

I'm sure it doesn't help that his antics are making me giggle.

997 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:21:44am

re: #989 MandyManners

He was thinking like a kid, Mandy.

998 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:21:52am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

that as long as he had to pee, might as well have a few laughs with it...lol

999 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:21:53am

re: #992 iceweasel

Someone at a townhall had a sign saying "OBAMA! BRING BACK ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT!"

That's awesome! There's rumors of an AD movie, but I don't know if that will ever happen.

1000 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:21:54am

re: #990 wrenchwench

...alligator lizards in the air...

Those are around Ventura Highway

1001 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:22:15am
1002 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:22:24am

re: #989 MandyManners

I sense a grounding in the future...

1003 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:22:50am

re: #979 Mad Al-Jaffee

You have to watch out for loose seals. They can bite your hand off!

How did I miss this post the first time? LMAO!

Pop Secret

1004 quiet man  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:23:21am

One last quickie for me

How about this for astroturfing??

Patterico and Lone Star Times capture yet another banner moment from a town-hall forum hosted by Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX) . In this clip, Roxana Mayer introduces herself as a doctor (a general practitioner for four years) in order to support ObamaCare and Jackson-Lee in a fairly hostile crowd. For her efforts, she gets a big hug from the Congresswoman, an image which the Houston Chronicle featured prominently on their website coverage of the event.
But was Mayer really a doctor?

Not only was Mayernot a doctor, Roxana Mayer was an Obama delegate, as Patterico discovered with some digging. What’s more, the Houston Chronicle apparently knew this and failed to include it in its glowing coverage of Mayer’s appearance. The reporter, Cindy Horswell, has admitted that she knew Mayer was an Obama delegate and that Mayer didn’t live in Jackson-Lee’s district when she wrote the Chronicle story. After getting exposed, the Chronicle quietly changed the caption on the photo without issuing a correction, removing the reference to Mayer being a doctor.

[Link: hotair.com...]


Here is the way the elected treat their people and how the main stream media keeps their mouths tightly closed to support such lies.

1005 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:23:41am

re: #1003 Sharmuta

How did I miss this post the first time? LMAO!

Pop Secret

Does "Pop Secret" mean that you have pop-pop in the attic?

1006 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:23:46am

re: #999 Mad Al-Jaffee

That's awesome! There's rumors of an AD movie, but I don't know if that will ever happen.

I've heard the rumours too, but I don't know.
I'll find you the link to the sign-- cracked me up. What a good show!

1007 kansas  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:23:50am

Media Today

Image: 090813beelertoon_c.jpg

1008 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:24:10am

re: #1000 Kosh's Shadow

Those are around Ventura Highway

Doh!

*smacks forehead*

1009 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:24:19am

re: #1005 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does "Pop Secret" mean that you have pop-pop in the attic?

Maeby.

1010 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:24:23am

re: #982 Sharmuta

Ok. I was referring to the current political discourse in America. Some people are calling Obama a "Socialist" or a "Marxist", while others are defending him saying he's a centrist Democrat. I don't peg him at the center, but he's not a Marxist either. Some of his gov't policies are socialist (in the social-democrat sense). State-run healthcare, nationalized banks & industries, - those are standard socialist policies.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the long run. I expect the gov't will sell off the car companies and financial institutions when the crisis is over. That would be smart, anyway. But once Socialized Medicine is established, you will never get rid of it. Enjoy!

1011 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:24:30am

re: #979 Mad Al-Jaffee

You have to watch out for loose seals. They can bite your hand off!

Wow - good thing I didn't know that, or I'd have had even more hsyterics!

Ages ago, when the kids were little, we spend a Christmas holiday in a cottage close to one of those rocky shores. One day they got into the water (the kids, that is - fully dressed!) and once they were got out, I saw another head in the water, quite close to shore. I thought one of them had crept back in again - but they were all accounted for ... it was one of these bachelor seals, who had come in to shore to see what was happening ...!

1012 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:24:31am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

FWIW, these skills could come in handy later. In the old Yankee Stadium (not sure about the new one), by about the 3rd inning (at 1 beer per inning that's 3 beers at least), the mens room lines would grow inordinately at the urinals, so inevitably lines started forming at the sinks as well.

Survival meant be willing and able to pee in the sink.

Downside to all of this meant that there wasn't a lot of hand-washing going on.

Now for really bad stories, I could start talking about the men's room facility (AKA "The Trough") on the infield at Pocono Raceway, which is in a league of its own.

1013 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:24:35am

re: #989 MandyManners

My MIL ran a kindergarten in her house for several years back in the sixties. The bathroom had a door that went into a closet and she kept finding wet on the closet floor. Turns out, some of the little boys were peeing on the floor in the bathroom and trying to "shoot" it under the closet door. She sent all the girls out in the play yard and confronted the boys about it. One of them tried to blame it on a particular little girl who was always getting in trouble. Didn't work!
:D

1014 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:24:48am

re: #989 MandyManners

Wow. I've got 3 boys all within a year of each other but they're still young (6 and 7). I'm already very scared about what they're going to come up with when they're older and learn more.

1015 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:25:34am

re: #1006 iceweasel

I've heard the rumours too, but I don't know.
I'll find you the link to the sign-- cracked me up. What a good show!

TV died for me when fox cancelled that show. Bastards never gave it a chance.

"I'm here for the magic!"

1016 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:25:44am

re: #1007 kansas

Media Today

[Link: media.sfexaminer.com...]

Good one! But it would be more accurate if Larry King was discussing Michael Jackson.

1017 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:26:08am

re: #1014 Spenser (with an S)

Wow. I've got 3 boys all within a year of each other but they're still young (6 and 7). I'm already very scared about what they're going to come up with when they're older and learn more.

Redrum!

1018 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:26:26am

re: #989 MandyManners

What the fuck was he thinking?


Never ask that question to a male. We can't answer it.

1019 KansasMom  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:26:46am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

I'm sorry, Mandy, but your son is a riot!
He's ornery, but if this is the kind of trouble he gets into then he's a pretty good kid. Ornery, but not mean-spirited.
I remember wondering what in the world was wrong with my cat...then discovering that my son had decided to pee in the litterbox. I guess they all have to experiment.

1020 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:26:50am

re: #1011 yma o hyd

Actually, you shouldn't worry - my post was an Arrested Development reference (the tv show, not the band.)

1021 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:26:50am
1022 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:26:51am

Well...just got hired by the State Personell Office asa Unemployment Claims Specialist. I start monday.

Go Me :D

1023 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:27:17am

re: #984 Kenneth

My brother lives on an island off the coast of Vancouver. Seals, sea lions, bald eagles and otters are all common along shoreline tide pools. Paradise.

Awww - now I'm really jealous!
Especially because of the otters - we don't have any here in Wales (yet!) - and the sea lions ... !
Mind, there are a few pods of dolphins in Cardigan Bay ...

1024 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:27:28am

re: #1022 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Well...just got hired by the State Personell Office asa Unemployment Claims Specialist. I start monday.

Go Me :D

Congrats.

1025 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:27:31am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

Well, as long as he didn't drop a deuce in the urinal.

1026 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:27:33am

pirates lose another one...

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

1027 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:27:45am

re: #1018 Killgore Trout

Never ask that question to a male. We can't answer it.

Where were you 20 years ago when I needed this information?!

1028 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:28:04am

re: #1000 Kosh's Shadow

Those are around Ventura Highway

Well, Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man that he didn't, didn't already have.

1029 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:28:10am

re: #1019 KansasMom

Yep, I would rather have naughty all day long (and I do...) than mean. I hate mean.

1030 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:28:14am

re: #1022 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Well...just got hired by the State Personell Office asa Unemployment Claims Specialist. I start monday.

Go Me :D


Excellent!

1031 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:28:19am

re: #1022 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Well...just got hired by the State Personell Office asa Unemployment Claims Specialist. I start monday.

Go Me :D

Congratulations!
See how Obama's policies are creating jobs? (In the unemployment office)

1032 Throbert McGee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:28:24am

Howdy, lizards...

Excuse the self-pimping, but I'm trying to get my video-editing, audio voiceover, and YouTube skillzes up to speed, as I'm working feverishly on putting together a DVD of 20-year-old VHS footage for some of my old high school friends before our reunion in mid-September.

Anyway, here's my very first original content that I've ever uploaded to YouTube -- a 30-second clip in which a gay Cylon admits his hu-man crush on an actor from a completely different sci-fi franchise:

Youtube Video

Enjoy! And rate!

P.S. Basically work-safe, but not totally kid-safe.

1033 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:28:28am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

Nope.

Shot of whisky is better than valium, though!

1034 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:28:43am

re: #989 MandyManners

I can almost guarantee you that when you ask him why he did it, his answer will be "I don't know."

1035 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:28:53am

re: #1025 Alouette

Well, as long as he didn't drop a deuce in the urinal.

Then they'd have to call in the Hardly Boys to find out who did it.

1036 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:29:41am

re: #1029 Spenser (with an S)

Yep, I would rather have naughty all day long (and I do...) than mean. I hate mean.

Yep. Naughty just means they're imaginative. Mean is e-vil.

1037 lobo91  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:29:56am

re: #1031 Kosh's Shadow

Congratulations!
See how Obama's policies are creating jobs? (In the unemployment office)

Seems like a growth industry.

1038 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:29:57am

re: #1032 Throbert McGee

Howdy, lizards...

Excuse the self-pimping, but I'm trying to get my video-editing, audio voiceover, and YouTube skillzes up to speed, as I'm working feverishly on putting together a DVD of 20-year-old VHS footage for some of my old high school friends before our reunion in mid-September.

Anyway, here's my very first original content that I've ever uploaded to YouTube -- a 30-second clip in which a gay Cylon admits his hu-man crush on an actor from a completely different sci-fi franchise:


[Video]

Enjoy! And rate!

P.S. Basically work-safe, but not totally kid-safe.

What? I work at Focus on the Family. :)

1039 kansas  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:29:57am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

I got a peeing story. My grand dad was a tough old German who lived in the basement. The basement had this great long sink where he washed the vegetables he grew in the garden. One day in high school me and the guys were practicing for the garage band and one of the guys went over and started to pee in the sink. I yelled for him to stop. He says, why, it's a urinal. And by gosh it was. Granddad had found it at the dump and installed it in the basement for a sink. I'm from a small town and had never seen a urinal like that. Maybe that's what's wrong with me now. ; )

1040 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:29:59am

re: #1025 Alouette

Well, as long as he didn't drop a deuce in the urinal.

That would call for the Hardley Boys.

1041 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:30:19am

re: #1021 buzzsawmonkey

Who?

Some music guy - I think he invented the solid body electric guitar and multi-track recording.

1042 Charpete67  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:30:20am

Nancy likes protesters?

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

1043 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:30:28am

re: #1031 Kosh's Shadow

They are estimating a year to year and a half of employment (This is temp work, but will be looking inside for other jobs). that should be a hint

1044 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:31:07am

re: #1032 Throbert McGee

Your scrolling credits were a little too fast, but otherwise it was good.

1045 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:31:47am

re: #1040 Honorary Yooper

That would call for the Hardley Boys.

I have a major clue going on!

1046 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:31:47am

re: #1041 Mad Al-Jaffee

You talking about Les Paul who passed away? The rock and roll gods wouldn't be gods without Paul. Heck, music today wouldn't be music today without his contributions to music and technology.

1047 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:31:50am

re: #1027 Sharmuta

Where were you 20 years ago when I needed this information?!

Wherever I was I was busy trying to come up with the "correct" answer to "What are you thinking?"

1048 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:32:02am
1049 Throbert McGee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:32:08am

re: #1012 Pianobuff

Survival meant be willing and able to pee in the sink.

Downside to all of this meant that there wasn't a lot of hand-washing going on.

Now for really bad stories, I could start talking about the men's room facility (AKA "The Trough") on the infield at Pocono Raceway, which is in a league of its own.

Sheesh, what kind of sitzpinkler DOESN'T pee piss in the sink? Avoids wasting flush-water and prevents women from screaming about dribbles on the toilet seat.

1050 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:32:20am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

My opinion? Deleting the email was worse. The peeing was all about peer pressure.

Obviously you need to fix your email so he can't get in, and possibly call the school and let them know to call you on your cell phone as well, in future.

Just my opinions, and i know it's easy for me to say, not being a parent. I am an aunt and unofficial aunt to a lot of kids of friends of mine, and partly raised one (teenage) kid of some friends for a few years-- when I wasn't much older than him.
Anyway-- good luck.

1051 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:32:37am

re: #950 HoosierHoops

Goat's Rock in NorCal! been there?

Oh heck yes, one of the coolest northern CA beaches is near there - Shell Beach. The beach is composed entirely of little shiny pieces of shell, thousand of different types and colors, simply awesome.

1052 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:32:39am

Thanbk you for all the kind words, commisseration and encouragements. I'd up-ding you all but the little wheel under my dinger just keeps spinning.

*mwah*

1053 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:32:59am

re: #1047 Killgore Trout

Wherever I was I was busy trying to come up with the "correct" answer to "What are you thinking?"

You can never go wrong with "I was thinking how wonderful you are". ;p

1054 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:33:09am

re: #867 Pianobuff

Dominica is pretty light on sand beaches IIRC. Great for snorkeling, scuba, and other nature stuff though.


yere: #881 yma o hyd

I see you're talking beaches ...
We got some pretty good'uns in Wales as well, like this one!

As for me - I definitely prefer the rocky shores! Much more to do and see. (And yep, we have lots and lots and lots of those in Wales!)

p, your right
re: #896 iceweasel

Oh wonderful-- so many places I haven't be

1055 Dianna  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:33:15am

re: #1042 Charpete67

Nancy likes protesters?

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

Not when they're camped outside her house, she doesn't.

1056 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:33:25am

re: #1039 kansas

Hee-hee! Eat yer veggies!
:D

1057 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:33:29am

re: #1046 lawhawk

You talking about Les Paul who passed away? The rock and roll gods wouldn't be gods without Paul. Heck, music today wouldn't be music today without his contributions to music and technology.

I listened to his landmark recording of "How High The Moon" with Mary Ford on vocals last night.

RIP Les.

1058 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:33:32am

re: #1052 MandyManners

the little wheel under my dinger just keeps spinning.

in bed?

1059 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:33:45am
1060 Throbert McGee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:33:50am

re: #1044 Sharmuta

Your scrolling credits were a little too fast, but otherwise it was good.

Thanks for the feedback, sharm! I can easily re-edit it to slow down the credits. Did the audio sound okay? I could probably tweak that a little too if the volume needs to go up or anything.

1061 garycooper  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:33:54am

re: #1000 Kosh's Shadow

Those are around Ventura Highway

The highway's jammed with broken heroes.

Just sayin'.

1062 Shug  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:34:04am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?


peeing in the sink is a little boy thing. we all did it

1063 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:34:11am

re: #1045 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have a major clue going on!

Keep that up and you will get a raging clue..

1064 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:34:12am

re: #1058 Mad Al-Jaffee

in bed?

No- up in the attic.

1065 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:34:45am

re: #1036 redstateredneck

re: #1029 Spenser (with an S)

Yep, I would rather have naughty all day long (and I do...) than mean. I hate mean.

Yep. Naughty just means they're imaginative. Mean is e-vil.

Something I hear from my bride almost daily? "How was I supposed to know to specifically tell them they shouldn't...(Fill in the blank)"

1066 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:34:47am

re: #1064 Sharmuta

No- up in the attic.

I've made a huge mistake.

1067 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:34:51am

re: #1059 buzzsawmonkey

The combination of peer and bladder pressure is dangerous indeed.

I think the technical term is "pee pressure".

1068 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:34:53am

re: #1060 Throbert McGee

Thanks for the feedback, sharm! I can easily re-edit it to slow down the credits. Did the audio sound okay? I could probably tweak that a little too if the volume needs to go up or anything.

Yeah- the volume could stand an increase by a tad.

1069 jamgarr  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:35:21am

re: #517 realwest

Good Morning y'all - from a pleasant (70 degrees) going up to 86 degrees) mostly sunny Charlotte!
Mom and I are doing fine, but have a good friend coming by in a while so I'll be outta here in an hour or so!
How is everyone doing today?


Wonderful. Hope the world's treating you well.

1070 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:35:26am

re: #989 MandyManners

I'm sorry, is there something wrong with peeing in the sink?

1071 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:35:57am

re: #1070 Kenneth

I'm sorry, is there something wrong with peeing in the sink?

Only if there's dishes in it.

1072 Throbert McGee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:36:06am

re: #1040 Honorary Yooper

That would call for the Hardley Boys.

You've given me a raging clue!

1073 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:36:10am

re: #1062 Shug

peeing in the sink is a little boy thing. we all did it

Some of us still do.

/not me mind you. That's what trees are for. :)

1074 lobo91  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:36:27am

re: #1055 Dianna

Not when they're camped outside her house, she doesn't.

When I was out in the Bay Area a couple of years ago, I remember the local news teased a story about protestors at Pelosi's house. My wife and I both assumed it was conservatives, of course.

Imagine our surprise after the commercial when it turned out the people doing the protesting were from Code Pink.

Only in San Francisco could Nancy Pelosi draw protests for being too conservative...

1075 Eowyn2  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:36:30am

Morning lizard world. FRIDAY. Obama is to speak today. Witing to see if the 'tickets' were as random as everyone is saying. Lots of O supporters on tv but O didnt take the state in the election so that will be interesting.

1076 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:36:54am

re: #1047 Killgore Trout

Wherever I was I was busy trying to come up with the "correct" answer to "What are you thinking?"

The correct answer is always " I wasn't." as in, "I wasn't thinking at all".

This should always be followed up with "When I was thinking, I was thinking about how wonderful you are" as Sharm suggests.

1077 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:36:56am

re: #1070 Kenneth

I'm sorry, is there something wrong with peeing in the sink?

Geez... what's off limits next? The shower? The pool?

This is spoiling all the fun.

1078 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:37:07am

re: #952 yma o hyd

That is stunning indeed!

The rocky shores I'm most familiar with look like this!
I can happily spend all day there, turning voer every rock and pebble, looking into every rock pool.
I loved marine biology, especially the biology of rocky shores.


I took a marine biology summer camp in high school here at Mendocino California.

Image: Islands_off_mendocino.jpg

1079 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:37:20am

re: #1071 Mad Al-Jaffee

Only if there's dishes in it.

Well yeah. As a gentleman, I always remove the dishes first. That goes without saying.

1080 Charpete67  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:37:29am

re: #1073 BlueCanuck

Some of us still do.

/not me mind you. That's what trees are for. :)

...hey, I'm not gonna be able to come over for dinner tonight...///

1081 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:37:35am
1082 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:37:38am

re: #1077 Pianobuff

Geez... what's off limits next? The shower? The pool?

The Constitution? (congress and 0)

1083 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:37:42am

re: #1045 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have a major clue going on!

"Oh, ya think that's funny, huh? Let me assure you, there is nothing funny about going up to a nice, clean, unsuspecting urinal, m'kay, dropping your pants, then turning around, squatting over that urinal, m'kay, maybe, maybe, pulling your butt cheeks apart with your hands, m'kay, and then laying out a big fudge dragon for all the world to see."
- Mr. Mackey

1084 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:38:24am

re: #1075 Eowyn2

Morning lizard world. FRIDAY. Obama is to speak today. Witing to see if the 'tickets' were as random as everyone is saying. Lots of O supporters on tv but O didnt take the state in the election so that will be interesting.

Bozeman is a pretty liberal place... kind of like Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Lots of celebrities have places there.

1085 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:38:57am

re: #954 quiet man

I knew a guy who always said "Goats rock!"..but they put him in jail for "helping one over a fence" or some such

ha, Yu probably know why the Aussies tuck their pant legs inside their boots too.

1086 wii42  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:39:27am

Anyone posted this yet?

Advertisers deserting Fox News' Glenn Beck

1087 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:39:36am

re: #1080 Charpete67

...hey, I'm not gonna be able to come over for dinner tonight...///

Never the kitchen sink. :p

/hey, I have to do dishes in that thing.
/also single

1088 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:40:15am

re: #1081 buzzsawmonkey

It's all porcelain. It's all good.

When the kid gets punished, you can bet he will be teased by his friends: 'Urine Trouble, Urine Trouble'.

1089 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:40:43am

re: #1088 Pianobuff

When the kid gets punished, you can bet he will be teased by his friends: 'Urine Trouble, Urine Trouble'.

That might piss him off.

1090 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:40:47am

re: #961 quiet man

all I can say is, spend the night in the desert a few times..((being very careful maybe with an experienced person))..and if you can ride a horse in the desert at night...do it.

It will chane your life...

I spent a night in death valley, full moon night. awesome.

1091 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:41:16am

re: #1023 yma o hyd

Check out this photo. That's a actual rock formation.

1092 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:41:57am

re: #1045 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have a major clue going on!

To refer to a different comedy group,
Throw a towel over it!
Do some push-ups, it will go away.

1093 Spartacus50  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:42:09am

Hillary Clinton is the WORST Sec. of State ever! Just read that she likened the fraudulent Nigerian elections to Bush v. Gore in 2000

1094 Eowyn2  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:43:08am

re: #989 MandyManners

Ah ha! I just found one from the prinicpal about his peeing in the sink at the behest of his buddies--they dared him to do it but one little darling then told on him. He thought he deleted it completely but I searched for the principal's name and found it. Oh, I am so gonna' choke him. I don't know which is worse: taking that dare or deleting that e-mail. I'm pounding the keyboard now. Gonna' do some deep breathing. Maybe pop a Valium. Both. What the fuck was he thinking? Was he thinking?

He was thinking "this is cool"
It is the natural male teenage reaction to being able to pee standing up. Is the principal Male or Female? I'll bet she is female. Most male principals would probably just make him scrub down the bathroom.

Wait until you catch him and his friends/cousins trying to see who can pee farthest up the wall of the house!!! Then get out the clue by four.

1095 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:43:32am

re: #1084 eschew_obfuscation

Bozeman is a pretty liberal place.. kind of like Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Lots of celebrities have places there.

I've been to both-- and are they actually liberal? They have a huge influx of lib tourists and lib vacation homes, true, but I'm not sure. Bozeman at any rate struck me as having a hardcore year round pop that isn't liberal. I liked it there.
Jackson Hole seemed totally gentrified and like the original people who lived there had been driven out or assimilated, as far as I could tell.

1096 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:43:39am

re: #1093 Spartacus50

Hillary Clinton is the WORST Sec. of State ever! Just read that she likened the fraudulent Nigerian elections to Bush v. Gore in 2000

it's criminal as far as I'm concerned...she'll skate tho

1097 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:44:10am

ok..something thats been in my craw recently...I'm sure some of the oldtimers here remember babbazee?...ok...does a certain current lizard, who i shan't mention by name, remind anyone else of babbazee posting style??? but is actually like an theologically point of view opposite of babbazee?? It's something I've noticed, but haven't mentioned...does any other older lizard share this hypothesis???

and I won't mention the current lizards name, but you'll know it if you get my thought on this.

or am I way off base here??? I probably am..but it's a thought that keeps recurring to me, whenever I read this one persons posts...darndest thing...lol

1098 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:44:45am

re: #1093 Spartacus50

Hillary Clinton is the WORST Sec. of State ever! Just read that she likened the fraudulent Nigerian elections to Bush v. Gore in 2000

I can't wait to hear what she says about the Iranian elections.

1099 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:44:48am

re: #1086 wii42

Anyone posted this yet?

Advertisers deserting Fox News' Glenn Beck

Interesting. I'd be happier if he was losing viewers.

1100 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:45:09am

re: #1053 Sharmuta

You can never go wrong with "I was thinking how wonderful you are". ;p

That's good but the best answer is to pick out two random details: "Your shoes compliment your eyes" or "Your earrings match your belt." That way you never give the same answer twice. Now I just refuse to answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me.

1101 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:45:23am

re: #1086 wii42

Anyone posted this yet?

Advertisers deserting Fox News' Glenn Beck

Not a big surprise. Advertisers don't much like controversy.

The head of Progressive is Peter Lewis, a good buddy of George Soros and major lefty contributor.

1102 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:45:47am

re: #965 yma o hyd

Thanks, {turn}!

I had a quick shufti (thats 'look' for you!) - will give it my undivided attention later.

Hows that Luke doing? Has he found anything else to paly with?
I know a Border Collie who carries a stick and a tennis ball in his mouth, the greedy hound!

I always get side tracked here, I should set the links aside too but I never seem to find time to go back to them and stuff slips through the cracks. Luke is fine, still boobing along. He found two tennis balls yesterday, he's obsesseed I tell ya. Little Willie had us scared, he threw up a little blood a couple of days ago. The turnwife figured out he bit his tounge of all things. How's Madame? I have to make it to Wales some day. Thre was something wrong with your beach picture, it wasn't raining! ha

1103 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:47:01am

re: #1097 Spider Mensch

ok..something thats been in my craw recently...I'm sure some of the oldtimers here remember babbazee?...ok...does a certain current lizard, who i shan't mention by name, remind anyone else of babbazee posting style??? but is actually like an theologically point of view opposite of babbazee?? It's something I've noticed, but haven't mentioned...does any other older lizard share this hypothesis???

and I won't mention the current lizards name, but you'll know it if you get my thought on this.

or am I way off base here??? I probably am..but it's a thought that keeps recurring to me, whenever I read this one persons posts...darndest thing...lol

I think you're off base. Babba stays busy on her own blog.

1104 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:47:39am

re: #972 quiet man

I sold cinnamon toothpicks in my day..you bought a bottle of cinnamon
oil and a few boxes of picks, then soak em overnight and sell em.

I did too, ha we must be around the same age. They quit selling the extract - too dangerous.

1105 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:47:40am

re: #1070 Kenneth

I'm sorry, is there something wrong with peeing in the sink?

Punishment should be writing his name in the snow 50 times.

1106 Kenneth  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:47:48am

re: #1097 Spider Mensch

I know Babbazee's style very well, but I have no idea who you are referring to... hints? My nic is blue if you want to whisper it...

1107 Eowyn2  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:48:02am

re: #1084 eschew_obfuscation

Bozeman is a pretty liberal place... kind of like Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Lots of celebrities have places there.

Yes and the news bit I heard on the radio (cnn?) was about the president not having an easy time of it in a small conservative town in MT though he may have a few supporters here. Bozeman is more conservative than Missoula or Kalispell. But they dont have as big of an airport. Billings is seeing too many layoffs. Its tough to lay off college students, celebrities with summer houses, and the farmers and ranchers. Easy to get rid of the coal mines by Billings.

1108 Shug  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:48:36am

re: #1093 Spartacus50

Hillary Clinton is the WORST Sec. of State ever! Just read that she likened the fraudulent Nigerian elections to Bush v. Gore in 2000

I wonder what her husband thinks about the Nigerian elections?

1109 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:49:00am

More people are killed every year by pigs than by sharks, which shows you how good we are at evaluating risk pigs.

1110 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:49:19am

re: #975 Mad Al-Jaffee

If you're there the weekend of Sep. 25, here's where we're playing (on the 25th). OC and Rehobeth are pretty close (I think - I haven't been to Rehobeth since I was a kid.)

[Link: www.atlanticbreezes.com...]

dang mad, I"ll be there the 20th through the 22nd. You getting there early?

1111 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:49:32am

re: #1095 iceweasel

I've been to both-- and are they actually liberal? They have a huge influx of lib tourists and lib vacation homes, true, but I'm not sure. Bozeman at any rate struck me as having a hardcore year round pop that isn't liberal. I liked it there.
Jackson Hole seemed totally gentrified and like the original people who lived there had been driven out or assimilated, as far as I could tell.

You may have a point wrt Bozeman's year-round population, but I'll be amazed if Obama gets any tough questions from whatever crowd is there. Actually, I think that any president would screen out detractors, but most wouldn't try to make it look like they had a randomly selected crowd.

1112 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:49:39am

re: #1078 turn

I took a marine biology summer camp in high school here at Mendocino California.

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

Oh wow!

I did mine in Cumbrae, Scotland ...
Was a bit colder, I'd guess - but they taught us well!

[Link: www.gla.ac.uk...]

1113 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:49:51am

re: #1093 Spartacus50

Hillary Clinton is the WORST Sec. of State ever! Just read that she likened the fraudulent Nigerian elections to Bush v. Gore in 2000

Hit the reset button.
/

1114 lobo91  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:50:46am

re: #1101 eschew_obfuscation

The head of Progressive is Peter Lewis, a good buddy of George Soros and major lefty contributor.

One reason I'd never buy insurance from them, no matter how much it saved me (although USAA is pretty hard to beat, anyway).

1115 Spider Mensch  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:50:47am

re: #1103 redstateredneck

re: #1106 Kenneth

Thanks folks. as I said I think i was probably looking too much at this, and way off base.

1116 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:50:50am

re: #860 HoosierHoops

Have you seen the google homepage yet..What the heck does it mean? Today is electricity day or something?

Yeah, I saw it and flinched, it does look like homemade bomb day, doesn't it?

1117 Buck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:51:03am

I don't understand... I wont swim with PIGs either...

1118 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:51:18am

re: #1110 turn

dang mad, I"ll be there the 20th through the 22nd. You getting there early?

I haven't decided yet. If I go early, it will probably just be the night before (the 24th.)

1119 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:51:26am

re: #1104 turn

I did too, ha we must be around the same age. They quit selling the extract - too dangerous.

Heh... I didn't know that was a national thing. We used to have them on my school bus when I was in junior high school.

1120 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:51:34am

re: #1091 Kenneth

Check out this photo. That's a actual rock formation.

Thats fantastic!

Thank you!

1121 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:51:36am

re: #1109 itellu3times

More people are killed every year by pigs than by sharks, which shows you how good we are at evaluating risk pigs.

EAT MORE PORK!

1122 Pianobuff  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:51:40am

re: #1086 wii42

Anyone posted this yet?

Advertisers deserting Fox News' Glenn Beck

But he's picked up these advertisers in their place:

#1

#2

#3

1123 Charpete67  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:51:47am

re: #1093 Spartacus50

Hillary Clinton is the WORST Sec. of State ever! Just read that she likened the fraudulent Nigerian elections to Bush v. Gore in 2000

Buchanan was on the ballot there?...//

1124 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:52:01am

re: #1097 Spider Mensch

ok..something thats been in my craw recently...I'm sure some of the oldtimers here remember babbazee?...ok...does a certain current lizard, who i shan't mention by name, remind anyone else of babbazee posting style??? but is actually like an theologically point of view opposite of babbazee?? It's something I've noticed, but haven't mentioned...does any other older lizard share this hypothesis???

and I won't mention the current lizards name, but you'll know it if you get my thought on this.

or am I way off base here??? I probably am..but it's a thought that keeps recurring to me, whenever I read this one persons posts...darndest thing...lol

Conspiracies are everywhere!

/I'm just funnin' ya.

1125 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:52:29am

re: #1115 Spider Mensch

re: #1106 Kenneth

Thanks folks. as I said I think i was probably looking too much at this, and way off base.

No prob!

1126 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:53:07am

re: #1091 Kenneth

Check out this photo. That's a actual rock formation.

Hey, that looks like Italy! ;-)

1127 Spartacus50  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:53:09am

re: #1096 albusteve

it's criminal as far as I'm concerned...she'll skate tho

Hasn't even hit the US newswire yet. Its buried deep in most articles. Only the Guardian UK has seriously reported it.

1128 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:53:30am

Well I've gotten through the first 800 pages or so of HR 3200. Given that the proposed legislation is being changed already (the end of life counseling provision is gone) and I have had some stuff come up that will take a lot of my time foe a while, I'll have to end my analysis there. I have posted what I thought to be some key provisions over the last week or so. FWIW here's my take on the proposed legislation:

1. As many have said (and has since been removed from the legislation) there was no death panel, it was a voluntary counseling session. I personally did not like the provision but I did not see anything sinister in it.

2. With regard to "keeping your health care plan" yes you can...until the plan changes anything much and then it stops existing as it was and has to comply with the government standards and be one of the basked of plans in the HEI.

3. The proposal significantly expands government, creating various boards and commissions and secretaries and commissioners to regulate, set standards, audit and generally decide how health care services will be livered.

4. The plan establishes "medical loss ratios" the the private plans have to comply with. The stated intent is to make sure that the premiums paid are going for services, which makes the mistake of equating money spent with service level provided in my opinion. this is the same philosophy used on public education, and you can draw your own conclusions about how well that has worked. If the private plan does not pay out enough to meet the medical loss ratio, they have to give back a rebate to the premium payers. This is a backdoor way of dictating profit that an insurer can make, and I believe will be a big disincentive for private insurers to offer health insurance. part of the calculation for private insurers is the ability to build up a capital reserve in low claim years to be able to pay out claims in high loss years. I think this provision would negatively impact their ability to do so. So, along would come one bad year and they would be out of money. No smart private insurer will take that risk, cause it all but guarantees a big loss for them sooner or later.

5. The requirement for the private plans to "compete" with the public option is something I found of concern. How do you compete with a government plan that can fall back on the public check book to eat their losses but you can't. I think that this, combined with the issue I discussed in item 4 above, would effectively eliminate private insurance options with in a few short years.

6. The medicare sections also worry me. There are so many caps and limits set on payments to doctors and other providers and penalties for readmissions that I think many service providers will be very hesitant to take on medicare patients. This serves to shift the flow of resources and assets away from medicare patients and toward other patients, sort of a back door way to ration care for medicare patients

7. Over all I found the 800 or so pages I worked through extremely confusing. For example, I found wording that seemed to indicate that illegal aliens were not covered, then I found other sections that could be interpreted to say that they were. I'm still not sure one way or the other and I've taken my time reading this thing. I've read a lot of legislation in my time and I've also written some, so I'm not a newbie at this.

This seemed to me written by a team of lawyers, with the intent to be confusing. They would start sections amending the section you had not yet read. They would refer to other pieces of legislation not appended. They would use initials for obscure phrases, and you would have to search for many pages to figure out what those initials signified.

My take was it was written in such a fashion as to provide a lot of room for interpretation.

I think something will be passed, and there are some changes that do need to happen, but the legislation needs to be written a lot clearer than this.

1129 albusteve  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:53:33am

re: #1121 apachegunner

EAT MORE PORK!

I intend to, if that's possible...a Porkies Pride just opened up around the bend from me 2min away

1130 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:53:34am

Highway Condom Explosion

Youtube Video

"What were they thinking?"

1131 Buck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:53:57am

Samsung's new point-and-shoots sport LCDs on front and back... Very cool

I am waiting for a point-and-shoot Camera with a Cell phone built in...

Think about that... No it is not the same.

1132 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:54:32am

Oh, dear me. The cops are here again--they just fluhshed out a second feeral pig and it toook three shots htis time. Dear me. I cannot take any more today. Im just glad Teh Kid wasn't here this time. Gosh were are my valium. I cannot take any more today. Oh that poor pig. it's mot his fault his owner wouldnt' take care of him. it's another Vietnamese pot-bellied pig. Fucking owner. I'd like to kick his greedy, selfish butt. Gotta' go I'm trembling all over and bawling my eyes right out of my hhead.

1133 Eowyn2  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:54:35am

re: #1095 iceweasel

I've been to both-- and are they actually liberal? They have a huge influx of lib tourists and lib vacation homes, true, but I'm not sure. Bozeman at any rate struck me as having a hardcore year round pop that isn't liberal. I liked it there.
Jackson Hole seemed totally gentrified and like the original people who lived there had been driven out or assimilated, as far as I could tell.

Bozeman has a core of ranch and farm people and the support systems. They also have Montana State University so a lot of the population is college support. There will always be those who are attracted to celeb status and there will always be those who tell the celebs "I don't care who you are; we dont take reservations and the dining room is full, you can sit in the bar with that millionair over there - yeah the one with the worn boot heels and the frayed jeans - or you can come back in 45 minutes to see if your table is ready"

1134 redstateredneck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:55:06am

re: #1128 3 wood

Thanks for wading through and interpreting this for us. It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it!

1135 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:56:20am

re: #1102 turn

I always get side tracked here, I should set the links aside too but I never seem to find time to go back to them and stuff slips through the cracks. Luke is fine, still boobing along. He found two tennis balls yesterday, he's obsesseed I tell ya. Little Willie had us scared, he threw up a little blood a couple of days ago. The turnwife figured out he bit his tounge of all things. How's Madame? I have to make it to Wales some day. Thre was something wrong with your beach picture, it wasn't raining! ha

Madame is o.k., provided I don't let her romp around too much! She's met Baz, the holiday visitor, a few times now - they are all over each other, too funny!
He'll come to stay with us for a week in September - I'm soo looking forward to it!

As for the missing rain - heh, we do get the odd spell of sunshine here and there! September is usually a good month ...

I'm glad little Willie is ok - its so worrying because they can't really tell us what is wrong with them. Lots of detective work needed to find out ...

1136 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:57:37am

Kenneth, what island does your bro live on?

1137 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:57:44am

re: #1128 3 wood
oK 3, ya better be right. I'll be quoting you for days here

1138 The Left  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:58:23am

re: #1111 eschew_obfuscation

You may have a point wrt Bozeman's year-round population, but I'll be amazed if Obama gets any tough questions from whatever crowd is there. Actually, I think that any president would screen out detractors, but most wouldn't try to make it look like they had a randomly selected crowd.

I think you're right.

I'm no expert about the year round pop in Bozeman. Been there a couple of times and it strikes me as a good place, not nearly as gentrified as Jackson Hole-- I think part of it is that the skiiers coming to Bozeman are in a very contained kind of area ( in resorts some drive away)-- in Jackson Hole they're all over the town and have taken it over.

But it's been like 8 years since I've been to Bozeman.

1139 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:59:44am

re: #1023 yma o hyd

Awww - now I'm really jealous!
Especially because of the otters - we don't have any here in Wales (yet!) - and the sea lions ... !
Mind, there are a few pods of dolphins in Cardigan Bay ...

The fresh water otters are making a come back along the American, Luke knows that word. We don't see them very often but last time I did he spotted them and caught on to the word.

1140 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:01:38am

re: #1134 redstateredneck

Thanks for wading through and interpreting this for us. It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it!

And our congressmen won't!

1141 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:01:59am

re: #1132 MandyManners

Oh, dear me. The cops are here again--they just fluhshed out a second feeral pig and it toook three shots htis time. Dear me. I cannot take any more today. Im just glad Teh Kid wasn't here this time. Gosh were are my valium. I cannot take any more today. Oh that poor pig. it's mot his fault his owner wouldnt' take care of him. it's another Vietnamese pot-bellied pig. Fucking owner. I'd like to kick his greedy, selfish butt. Gotta' go I'm trembling all over and bawling my eyes right out of my hhead.

{Mandy}
Thats sad, and bad.
I hope, when you're feeling up for it, you can get that pig-owner punished!

1142 Sharmuta  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:02:43am

re: #1130 Killgore Trout

"What were they thinking?"

How her sweater brings out the color of her eyes?

1143 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:02:50am
1144 pingjockey  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:03:22am

Mornin' from a rainy..finally eastern WA state. So we have feral pigs and otters on tap! We have otters, weasels, and martins in the local rivers plus a few beavers. The local parks have had to armor some of the trees to keep the beavers from chewing them down!

1145 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:03:29am

re: #1142 Sharmuta

Lol

1146 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:05:18am

re: #1139 turn

The fresh water otters are making a come back along the American, Luke knows that word. We don't see them very often but last time I did he spotted them and caught on to the word.

He is clever, that Luke!

They've started to introduce some fresh water otters in some places in the South of England - it will take quite some time to get them re-established.
At the same time, they are trying to re-introduce some beavers into Scottish rivers.
The fishermen are totally up in arms about that.
Personally, I think having beavers in Welsh rivers would be brilliant!

1147 Dianna  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:05:57am

re: #1130 Killgore Trout

No clue. But clearly, this is a guy road trip.

1148 Dianna  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:06:52am

re: #1132 MandyManners

Have a drink of water, one aspirin, and lie down for a bit.

1149 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:07:07am

re: #1022 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Well...just got hired by the State Personell Office asa Unemployment Claims Specialist. I start monday.

Go Me :D

Great news.

1150 J.D.  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:08:04am

re: #1128 3 wood

Thanks for that, and please keep us posted.

I went home over the weekend for the 40th birthday party for my best friend's son, who has brain cancer. While there, I visited a friend of mine who had breast cancer, is 65, and not in good condition. She's had 4 shots that were $4,000 each, and believes that if this "health" plan comes to pass, she will be deemed not worth the trouble.

I wish she didn't have to worry about that, too.

1151 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:09:23am

re: #1112 yma o hyd

Oh wow!

I did mine in Cumbrae, Scotland ...
Was a bit colder, I'd guess - but they taught us well!

[Link: www.gla.ac.uk...]

kewl. In regards to biology at the summer camp - it was the female biology that turn remembers most. Oh those were fun days. At that summer camp I even had my eye on who eventually turned out to be the turnwife's sister years later.

1152 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:10:12am

re: #1146 yma o hyd

Be careful what you wish for. Yes beavers can be a real nuisance in water courses. I remember being told one time about what happened when a moratorium was placed on trapping them here in Ontario Canada. population exploded and then crashed with disease. Not to mention flooding all over the place caused by the damming of creeks and streams. On the other hand, there is nothing more fascinating then a "beaver meadow".

1153 Eowyn2  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:11:14am

re: #1128 3 wood

3. The proposal significantly expands government, creating various boards and commissions and secretaries and commissioners to regulate, set standards, audit and generally decide how health care services will be delivered.

There is the major accomplishment of this bill. More fed regulations, more fed jobs, more votes.

1154 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:11:20am

re: #1135 yma o hyd

A few nights ago I let Blitz out in the front yard to pee (she knows that when she goes out and pees she usually gets a snack when I let her back in) and she saw a rabbit and chased it. I called her back when she nearly cleared the neighbor's yard. Ever since then, whenever I let her out she looks for that bunny.

1155 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:11:37am

re: #1119 eschew_obfuscation

Heh... I didn't know that was a national thing. We used to have them on my school bus when I was in junior high school.

Grade school for me. Where are you from?

1156 96RoadKing  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:12:08am

re: #1153 Eowyn2

3. The proposal significantly expands government, creating various boards and commissions and secretaries and commissioners to regulate, set standards, audit and generally decide how health care services will be delivered.

There is the major accomplishment of this bill. More fed regulations, more fed jobs, more votes.

Damn! You're on to us! ;-)

1157 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:14:39am

IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK SOMEWHERE!

1158 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:14:58am

re: #1155 turn

Grade school for me. Where are you from?

That was Carmel, Indiana ... just north of Indianapolis.

Nebraska now.

1159 apachegunner  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:15:15am

re: #1157 MandyManners

IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK SOMEWHERE!


toast

1160 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:15:35am

re: #1151 turn

kewl. In regards to biology at the summer camp - it was the female biology that turn remembers most. Oh those were fun days. At that summer camp I even had my eye on who eventually turned out to be the turnwife's sister years later.

Blimey!
Happy days, aye ...

We were not so lucky - once we'd all arrived, and there was no way out, we were told we ahd to sit and exam after the two week course, and the results were going to be sent to our university departments, going towards our final marks ...

We wuz conned, I tells ya - we worked our socks off ... and the next pub was a forty-mintue walk away ...!

1161 calcajun  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:15:48am

re: #1157 MandyManners

IT'S FIVE O'CLOCK SOMEWHERE!

I'll drive!

1162 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:15:53am

Again, thanks for the kind words.

1163 [deleted]  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:18:28am
1164 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:18:45am

re: #1152 BlueCanuck

Be careful what you wish for. Yes beavers can be a real nuisance in water courses. I remember being told one time about what happened when a moratorium was placed on trapping them here in Ontario Canada. population exploded and then crashed with disease. Not to mention flooding all over the place caused by the damming of creeks and streams. On the other hand, there is nothing more fascinating then a "beaver meadow".

To be sure, they can -like all wild animals - ebcome a nuisance for people when left to become over-populated. Just like deer in Europe ...

But this (from your link) is the main reason why people are keen to re-introduce them:
'The beaver works as a keystone species in an ecosystem by creating wetlands that are used by many other species. Next to humans, no other extant animal appears to do more to shape its landscape.'
Its about re-gaining wetlands, and thus creating more biodiversity over time.

1165 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:19:02am

re: #1144 pingjockey

Mornin' from a rainy..finally eastern WA state. So we have feral pigs and otters on tap! We have otters, weasels, and martins in the local rivers plus a few beavers. The local parks have had to armor some of the trees to keep the beavers from chewing them down!

There has been a big program along the American to protect the tress from beavers, plus they fenced off portions of the river bank to keep them at bay. Morning ping

1166 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:19:35am

re: #1164 yma o hyd

Also very tasty. :)

/yes I have had beaver. Gotta love it when your dads friend is a trapper.

1167 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:20:29am

re: #1146 yma o hyd

He is clever, that Luke!

They've started to introduce some fresh water otters in some places in the South of England - it will take quite some time to get them re-established.
At the same time, they are trying to re-introduce some beavers into Scottish rivers.
The fishermen are totally up in arms about that.
Personally, I think having beavers in Welsh rivers would be brilliant!

Are there many trees for them to feed on?

1168 itellu3times  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:21:32am

re: #1128 3 wood

Because of your #2 and #5, I think this would kill existing private plans overnight. You can't do any kind of actuarial estimates on the pool unders such circumstances, so you can't price it, can't manage it, and can't turn a profit on it. So, you send everyone a letter claiming force majeure and refer them to their congressman.

1169 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:21:45am

re: #1166 BlueCanuck

Also very tasty. :)

/yes I have had beaver. Gotta love it when your dads friend is a trapper.

I think I better not make any cunning lingual remark about eating beaver.

1170 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:21:47am

re: #1154 Mad Al-Jaffee

A few nights ago I let Blitz out in the front yard to pee (she knows that when she goes out and pees she usually gets a snack when I let her back in) and she saw a rabbit and chased it. I called her back when she nearly cleared the neighbor's yard. Ever since then, whenever I let her out she looks for that bunny.

She would! Now that she knows its around somewhere ...

On a holiday in a cottage in Scotland, we had to walk up a drive to get back to it. that drive, especially in the evening, was heaving with rabbits.
Big Dog and Madame were in hysterics every time - we had to keep them on their leads, even though they nearly strangled themselves trying to get at those pesky rabbios!

1171 BlueCanuck  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:23:15am

re: #1169 Kosh's Shadow

Thought about that, went ahead and posted it anyway. :)

1172 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:23:33am

re: #1167 turn

Are there many trees for them to feed on?

In some places, up in North Wales, around the middle of the mountains, there are.

1173 pingjockey  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:23:38am

re: #1165 turn
Mornin' back atcha!
Going up to check new thread!

1174 yma o hyd  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:24:22am

Going upstairs >>>

1175 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:26:26am

re: #1137 apachegunner

oK 3, ya better be right. I'll be quoting you for days here

OK, understand that no where does it say "we are transferring assets from medicare to others". You have to read through page after page of proposed limits, caps, standards, reviews, audit and than ask yourself what is the likely impact of this on the provision of services. some may come to different conclusions.

For example, there is a provision starting on page 322 (which I copied here yesterday) that sets limits on how much certain types of medicare providing hospitals can expand. I think that kind of micromanagement from the Fed's will serve to discourage hospitals to provide medicare services.

Others may come to a different conclusion.

1176 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:27:48am

re: #1175 3 wood

Thanks for all the hard work deciphering the bill 3W. heh Vick got picked by the Eagles.

1177 turn  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:28:15am

new thread

1178 3 wood  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:28:26am

re: #1168 itellu3times

Because of your #2 and #5, I think this would kill existing private plans overnight. You can't do any kind of actuarial estimates on the pool unders such circumstances, so you can't price it, can't manage it, and can't turn a profit on it. So, you send everyone a letter claiming force majeure and refer them to their congressman.

That's my take. either the people who wrote this have no idea how private health insurance actually works and are trying to do this naively, or they do and want to end it. I can't figure out which one it is.

1179 Orangutan  Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:08:11pm

Actually, the original quote might show we are decent at evaluating risk. By incidence rate, the damage rate with shark exposure (or "position") may be much higher than the damage rate per pig position owing to the massive pig/human position. Thus we have limited our damage from sharks to less than that of by pigs through tight, self-imposed position limiting.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Good Liars at Miami Trump Rally [VIDEO] Jason and Davram talk with Trump supporters about art, Mike Lindell, who is really president and more! SUPPORT US: herohero.co SEE THE GOOD LIARS LIVE!LOS ANGELES, CA squadup.com SUBSCRIBE TO OUR AUDIO PODCAST:Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.comSpotify: open.spotify.comJoin this channel to ...
teleskiguy
3 weeks ago
Views: 738 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0