Herman Cain Harassment Victim’s News Conference

A few details come out
Politics • Views: 32,419

One of the women who was paid a five-figure sum to buy her silence by Herman Cain is about to release a statement, probably through her attorney. Here’s an open thread to discuss…

(And you can bet this woman will be rapidly attacked by the right wing blogosphere, no matter what she says.)

UPDATE at 11/4/11 1:25:23 pm

The statement was very carefully crafted and not very detailed, other than making it clear that this was a case of sexual harassment. The woman’s attorney, Joel Bennett, did reveal a few pieces of important information:

1) There was more than one incident of sexual harassment.

2) The woman was married at the time.

3) Herman Cain received a detailed formal internal complaint, and disputed it; Bennett said he’d be “astounded” if Cain didn’t know about it (as Cain has claimed).

Following the press conference, the National Restaurant Association issued their own statement in which they waived the confidentiality agreement, and gave Bennett’s client permission to comment.

Jump to bottom

571 comments
1 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:31:03pm

Where is this going down?

2 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:31:39pm

re: #1 Obdicut

Where is this going down?

You may want to re-phrase.

3 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:33:37pm

Herman Cain: “I am the Koch brothers’ brother from another mother. And proud of it!”

Yes, he really said that.

4 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:34:01pm

I thought she didn’t want to make a statement since she didn’t want to run the gauntlet of the right-wing smear machine.

5 BongCrodny  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:34:15pm

re: #2 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You may want to re-phrase.

It’s not often somebody wins the thread two comments into it.

6 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:34:19pm

“I think [the charges against Cain are] mostly garbage that they throw at people who want to be president,” James Kindsch, from Middleton, Wis., said in a follow-up interview.

“I don’t believe it,” said Paul Bradley from Fishersville, Va., adding: “The further in the past they happened, the less accurate they are.”

pre-opinioned

7 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:34:20pm

re: #3 Charles

Herman Cain: “I am the Koch brothers’ brother from another mother. And proud of it!”

Yes, he really said that.

Authentic blacks say things like that.

8 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:34:29pm

.re: #3 Charles

“Just call me Herman Koch-Cain!”

He didn’t really say that.

9 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:34:38pm

re: #1 Obdicut

Where is this going down?

[Link: www.rawstory.com…]

10 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:34:54pm
(And you can bet this woman will be rapidly attacked by the right wing blogosphere, no matter what she says.)

I fear that by this time next week, her identity, where she lives and where she’s now working will be revealed by the misogynists.

11 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:35:41pm

Did the NRA release her from the NDA? Or is this to say they won’t? Are there any additional details?

12 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:36:19pm

re: #8 neilk

.

“Just call me Herman Koch-Cain!”

He didn’t really say that.

I’ve got the video

Youtube Video
13 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:36:22pm

Poor woman is going to be harassed for this. We all know how the right wing blogosphere acts when someone does something they don’t like.

14 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:37:24pm

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh, he did say that, but the joke, I added. (Note for those like me who get most of their information in text form: “Koch” is pronounced “Coke.”)

15 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:37:58pm

re: #9 Gus 802

[Link: www.rawstory.com…]

And another link.

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

16 theheat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:38:23pm

re: #13 HappyWarrior

I hope she has the balls and attorney to never shut the hell up about it. And I hope she’s well armed.

This is one case where everdreadful Gloria Alred might come in handy.

17 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:38:59pm

re: #14 neilk

Oh, he did say that, but the joke, I added. (Note for those like me who get most of their information in text form: “Koch” is pronounced “Coke.”)

I always pronounce Koch “Cock”, rhymes with Loch

18 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:39:34pm

re: #3 Charles

Herman Cain: “I am the Koch brothers’ brother from another mother. And proud of it!”

Yes, he really said that.

Cain has enormous resonance with all ordinary americans who have been corporate CEOs

19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:39:44pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I always pronounce Koch “Cock”, rhymes with Loch

There’s a Dr. Koch locally, it’s pronounced “Cook”.

20 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:40:17pm

WATCH LIVE: Statement from Cain’s accuser

Lawyer Joel P. Bennett represented a woman who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment during the 1990s.

Watch this live video from CNN, broadcast Nov. 4, 2011.

21 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:40:39pm

re: #11 Simply Sarah

I’m pretty sure this statement will be crafted to avoid violating the language of the NDA. (Although I’m not quite sure what they’re worried about—do they really think Cain is going to sue his own victim in the midst of a Presidential campaign? Or even after it, assuming he wants to remain a public figure?)

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:40:52pm

re: #20 Gus 802

Is she hot?
/

23 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:41:09pm

Cain accuser close to agreement to issue statement

…
Bennett is asking the association for permission to release a statement that will not violate the confidentiality and non-disparagement provisions of a 1999 settlement agreement.

Bennett told CNN the statement will not include his client’s identity, because she is trying to “remain private.” The statement would be a summary of “what she did and why she did it,” but not include specifics about any incidents or any settlement, he noted.
…

Wait, what? That doesn’t sound like it will clear much up at all. :/

24 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:41:31pm

It’d be great if the lawyer came out and just screamed “Live from New York, it’s Saturday Night!” (I know, it’s not) and then the cut to Saturday Night Live where it was revealed Herman Cain was joining the troupe as a new, Andy Kaufman-esque comedian of astonishing brilliance.

25 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:41:45pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You should watch the video you posted. Cain pronounces it “Coke” in the first 2 seconds.

26 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:42:32pm

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is she hot?
/

It’s just going to be the attorney.

27 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:42:48pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I always pronounce Koch “Cock”, rhymes with Loch

Nope. German, not scottish. And they pronounce it “coke”, as do their PR folk and HR folk and all the other Koch Enterprise people in Kansas.

28 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:43:54pm

It’s sort of amusing to watch the camera guys and tech geeks and field reporters milling around before these things kick off. I just wish there was an open mic so I could hear what they’re gabbing about.

29 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:45:37pm

re: #28 makeitstop

I wonder if they know it’s broadcasting.

Hey dude in the brown suit— nice suit.

30 JeffM70  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:45:41pm

I hope this woman’s attorney or whomever she goes to for advice have prepared her for the right-wing onslaught. But I suppose after the first 1,000 death threats they begin to lose their impact.

31 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:46:30pm

He will certainly not name her. Although her identity can’t be that hard to track down, I read the other day that news vans are staking out her house. I assume this is part of why she wants to give a statement—they’re begging for one.

32 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:47:11pm

re: #29 Obdicut

I wonder if they know it’s broadcasting.

Hey dude in the brown suit— nice suit.

Must be a UFO in the sky.

33 allegro  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:47:54pm

re: #23 Simply Sarah

Cain accuser close to agreement to issue statement

Wait, what? That doesn’t sound like it will clear much up at all. :/

It could actually be a lot more devastating since people’s imaginations will be needed to fill in the blanks of details.

34 Jack Burton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:49:03pm

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Authentic blacks say things like that.

Only while drunk. I’ve never heard anyone with more melanin than I have say that sober.

35 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:49:18pm

I hope she and her lawyer make everyone wonder, into perpetuity.

re: #22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is she hot?
/

36 theheat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:49:31pm

re: #19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I pronounce it cock because it sounds like dick. Because they’re dicks.

37 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:49:32pm

re: #27 kirkspencer

Nope. German, not scottish. And they pronounce it “coke”, as do their PR folk and HR folk and all the other Koch Enterprise people in Kansas.

Waste of money, because I’ll continue to use the Scottish and they can piss right off.

38 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:49:37pm

re: #33 allegro

It could actually be a lot more devastating since people’s imaginations will be needed to fill in the blanks of details.

I suppose. I guess I was just hoping for a bit more information, personally.

39 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:51:03pm

Boy, Herm Cain sure mishandled this.

I’m certainly not a Herman “9-9-9” Cain apologist, but the fact that someone who spent his life managing people and restaurants had a sexual harassment claim against him that was settled wouldn’t change my mind one way or another.

He should have simply said, when confronted with it, “Yes, it’s true. There was a sexual harassment claim against me that resulted in a settlement” and moved on. I guarantee that not one Herman Cain supporter would suddenly have become a Mitt Romney supporter because of this admission.

Instead he tried to soft-pedal it, beat around the bush (sorry!), etc.

40 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:51:46pm

Camera location.

41 Idle Drifter  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:52:19pm

There’s Coke in Coke in Koch.

42 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:52:39pm

Yeah, an onslaught of slobbering males, demanding themselves a piece.

But you know, lesbians recruit e_e

re: #30 JeffM70

I hope this woman’s attorney or whomever she goes to for advice have prepared her for the right-wing onslaught. But I suppose after the first 1,000 death threats they begin to lose their impact.

43 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:52:52pm

re: #40 Gus 802

Camera location.

Fuck, now I want a cupcake.

44 BongCrodny  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:53:17pm

re: #39 reuven

I guarantee that not one Herman Cain supporter would suddenly have become a Mitt Romney supporter because of this admission.

From the polls I’ve read, it looks like not one Herman Cain supporter has become a Mitt Romney supporter because of his behavior, either.

45 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:53:21pm

re: #40 Gus 802

Camera location.

Damn you’re good.

46 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:53:50pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fuck, now I want a cupcake.

The cupcake is a lie!

47 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:54:00pm

re: #40 Gus 802

Camera location.

There’s a pizza box in the garbage can, center/front.

48 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:54:47pm

re: #46 Gus 802

The cupcake is a lie!

I half want to down ding that just out of principle.
/

49 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:55:20pm

re: #36 theheat

I pronounce it cock because it sounds like dick. Because they’re dicks.

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Waste of money, because I’ll continue to use the Scottish and they can piss right off.

According to this site that offers native German pronunication of said word, “cock” is indeed the closest English equivalent (click the little blue triangle icon to hear the audio - sounds a lot more like “cock” than “cook” or “coke”)

50 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:55:20pm

re: #39 reuven

Boy, Herm Cain sure mishandled this.

I’m certainly not a Herman “9-9-9” Cain apologist, but the fact that someone who spent his life managing people and restaurants had a sexual harassment claim against him that was settled wouldn’t change my mind one way or another.

He should have simply said, when confronted with it, “Yes, it’s true. There was a sexual harassment claim against me that resulted in a settlement” and moved on. I guarantee that not one Herman Cain supporter would suddenly have become a Mitt Romney supporter because of this admission.

Instead he tried to soft-pedal it, beat around the bush (sorry!), etc.

On the other hand, it doesn’t seem to matter. As a lot of people (myself being one) said back when this first started: the people who’ll get upset wouldn’t have voted for him anyway, and the people who’d vote for him won’t care about this.

In a lot of ways this is looks like a pressure valve. Say, just as a hypothetical, Cain wins the nomination. At that point, for the general election, this thing matters. However, anyone bringing it up gets the response, “It’s old news.”

51 Firstinla  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:55:43pm

re: #36 theheat

I was going to say that and you beat me to it. I listened to H. Cain’s speech on the radio while driving home. Sounds like every politician: this is what I am going to do when I am president. But I’ve never heard one of these people ever say HOW they were going to get their agenda accomplished. It is, therefore, just bullshit. When one of them provide actual details of how they will get something done I will consider voting for her/him. I loved Bachmann’s proclamation that she would create millions of jobs. Just how is she going to do that?

52 Sionainn  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:56:16pm

re: #47 Decatur Deb

There’s a pizza box in the garbage can, center/front.

I spy with my little eye…

53 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:56:17pm

Yah, but real black.

re: #39 reuven

Boy, Herm Cain sure mishandled this.

I’m certainly not a Herman “9-9-9” Cain apologist, but the fact that someone who spent his life managing people and restaurants had a sexual harassment claim against him that was settled wouldn’t change my mind one way or another.

He should have simply said, when confronted with it, “Yes, it’s true. There was a sexual harassment claim against me that resulted in a settlement” and moved on. I guarantee that not one Herman Cain supporter would suddenly have become a Mitt Romney supporter because of this admission.

Instead he tried to soft-pedal it, beat around the bush (sorry!), etc.

54 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:56:25pm

re: #48 Simply Sarah

I half want to down ding that just out of principle.
/

Makes me want to get cupcakes.

55 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:57:56pm

How to pronounce “Koch”

[Link: translate.google.com…]

Google Translate

Press the little speaker button on that page to hear Google say it. It’s the German word for “cook.”

56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:58:06pm

re: #26 Gus 802

It’s just going to be the attorney.

Is the attorney hot?

57 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:58:53pm

re: #56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is the attorney hot?

Depends. ;)

[Link: employmentlawyer.biz…]

58 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:59:47pm

re: #49 publicityStunted

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

According to this site that offers native German pronunication of said word, “cock” is indeed the closest English equivalent (click the little blue triangle icon to hear the audio)

Koch Brothers To Launch Massive Campaign To Promote Uvular Fricatives

partnering with rabbis, mullahs, pennsylvania dutch, and scottish comedians to save them from an eternal purgatory of embarassing suggestions

59 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:00:19pm

Hard to tell, but it could be the NRA with the standing to bring the suit, dunno.

re: #21 neilk

I’m pretty sure this statement will be crafted to avoid violating the language of the NDA. (Although I’m not quite sure what they’re worried about—do they really think Cain is going to sue his own victim in the midst of a Presidential campaign? Or even after it, assuming he wants to remain a public figure?)

60 aagcobb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:00:22pm

re: #51 Firstinla

I was going to say that and you beat me to it. I listened to H. Cain’s speech on the radio while driving home. Sounds like every politician: this is what I am going to do when I am president. But I’ve never heard one of these people ever say HOW they were going to get their agenda accomplished. It is, therefore, just bullshit. When one of them provide actual details of how they will get something done I will consider voting for her/him. I loved Bachmann’s proclamation that she would create millions of jobs. Just how is she going to do that?

Simply by not being Obama, she will inspire so much confidence that the job creators will immediately hire millions of new employees./

61 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:00:58pm

re: #51 Firstinla

I was going to say that and you beat me to it. I listened to H. Cain’s speech on the radio while driving home. Sounds like every politician: this is what I am going to do when I am president. But I’ve never heard one of these people ever say HOW they were going to get their agenda accomplished. It is, therefore, just bullshit. When one of them provide actual details of how they will get something done I will consider voting for her/him. I loved Bachmann’s proclamation that she would create millions of jobs. Just how is she going to do that?

The devil is in the details of course. Everyone will be employed for 15 minutes, then fired and replaced by the next person on the list. Times 10,000 positions. voila’! Millions of jobs!

:)

62 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:01:19pm

re: #50 kirkspencer

On the other hand, it doesn’t seem to matter. As a lot of people (myself being one) said back when this first started: the people who’ll get upset wouldn’t have voted for him anyway, and the people who’d vote for him won’t care about this.

In a lot of ways this is looks like a pressure valve. Say, just as a hypothetical, Cain wins the nomination. At that point, for the general election, this thing matters. However, anyone bringing it up gets the response, “It’s old news.”

This has been more illuminating regarding the lack of professionalism of the Cain organization (if you can even use those two words together) than anything else. It’s amateur hour with him and the smoking guy.

63 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:01:59pm

re: #59 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, of course you’re right. They’re the ones who paid and they’re the ones who are being asked to release her from the gag order.

64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:02:07pm

She’ll pray about it.

re: #51 Firstinla

I was going to say that and you beat me to it. I listened to H. Cain’s speech on the radio while driving home. Sounds like every politician: this is what I am going to do when I am president. But I’ve never heard one of these people ever say HOW they were going to get their agenda accomplished. It is, therefore, just bullshit. When one of them provide actual details of how they will get something done I will consider voting for her/him. I loved Bachmann’s proclamation that she would create millions of jobs. Just how is she going to do that?

65 Why I Never!  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:02:27pm

re: #62 garhighway

This has been more illuminating regarding the lack of professionalism of the Cain organization (if you can even use those two words together) than anything else. It’s amateur hour with him and the smoking guy.

Exactly. Look at how they’ve (mis)handled it. Just more proof that they’re out of their league.

66 theheat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:02:55pm

re: #51 Firstinla

They’re too busy thumping bibles, being afraid of gays, and prying their way into women’s uteruses, while simultaneously hung up about sex in general, to write a freakin’ grocery list, let alone create jobs.

67 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:03:10pm

Here we go…

68 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:03:49pm

One thing we can probably all agree on. We can all breath a collective sigh of relief. Her attorney isn’t Gloria Allred.

:)

69 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:03:49pm

re: #27 kirkspencer

Nope. German, not scottish. And they pronounce it “coke”, as do their PR folk and HR folk and all the other Koch Enterprise people in Kansas.

Should people be able to do this? I mean, there is no “ou” there. It’s either “kok” or “kokh”.

Oh, I see the presser begins.

70 Firstinla  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:04:22pm

You folks have an amazing way of clarifying things. I feel greatly enlightened now. Thank you. And all this time I just thought it is all bullshit when in all actuality…it is.

/

71 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:04:25pm

Oh boy.

That’s not going to satisfy the media.

72 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:04:36pm

re: #59 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hard to tell, but it could be the NRA with the standing to bring the suit, dunno.

That’s my guess, too. The parties to the NDA are probably the NRA and the plaintiff, so it’s between them what happens there. Unless she sued him personally, in which case he’d be a party, too. But that would be meaningful: lots of plaintiffs personally name the boss, but that usually gets fixed during the case, and you just end up with the company as the defendant. If she named Herm and they couldn’t get Herm out, that would be….interesting.

73 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:04:59pm

Immediately obvious why they’re doing this on a Friday afternoon.

74 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:05:18pm

re: #71 Obdicut

Oh boy.

That’s not going to satisfy the media.

It’ll evolve.

75 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:05:20pm

That’s some bs.

76 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:05:24pm

“Improper advances.”

“My client stands by her complaint.”

77 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:05:29pm

She’s a government employee—so Cain wants to be her boss again.

78 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:05:40pm

re: #68 Gus 802

One thing we can probably all agree on. We can all breath a collective sigh of relief. Her attorney isn’t Gloria Allred.

:)

Or Orly Taitz.

79 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:05:41pm

re: #71 Obdicut

The message was to the media, and that message was: “leave me alone now”

80 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:05:48pm

That’s as much detail as we’re gonna get. For now.

81 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:06:29pm

She was married at the time. That’s new.

82 Sionainn  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:06:39pm

Reporters: “We waited how long for this?”

83 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:06:44pm

And the wingers will be furious because they didn’t get any clues to hunt her down with.

84 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:06:55pm

More than one incident.

85 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:07:30pm

I can’t watch this stuff from work but I can’t blame her for being cautious and remaining anonymous, as has been said elsewhere it wouldn’t be long before the teahadists knew what kind of counter-tops she had and I can almost guarantee she’d need police protection given she’d receive death threats.

86 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:08:28pm

She looked at me for a half a second!!

Obviously, she wants it!!!

87 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:09:00pm

incident (occurrence)

incidents

incidence (rate)

incidences

he’s annoying my inner pedant

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:09:15pm

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And the wingers will be furious because they didn’t get any clues to hunt her down with.

Do you mean the other NRA?

89 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:09:25pm

She can’t really think the media is going to leave her alone, can she?

90 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:09:30pm

Death threats and rape threats.

re: #85 Dreggas

I can’t watch this stuff from work but I can’t blame her for being cautious and remaining anonymous, as has been said elsewhere it wouldn’t be long before the teahadists knew what kind of counter-tops she had and I can almost guarantee she’d need police protection given she’d receive death threats.

91 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:09:50pm

re: #90 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

By the way, when you do the quote thing at the bottom of your post, it makes your posts a lot harder to read.

92 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:10:00pm

He can’t say much. He’s bound by contract. Otherwise, if he talks he’ll get sued and likely disbarred.

93 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:10:03pm

So, the NRA signed the NDA and not Cain?

That might explain why he’s been talking about it.

94 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:10:18pm

re: #69 Sergey Romanov

Should people be able to do this? I mean, there is no “ou” there. It’s either “kok” or “kokh”.

Oh, I see the presser begins.

Went and doublechecked. Dutch, not German.

95 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:10:21pm

Oooh. Okay, now— he just said Cain lied.

Or ‘chose not to remember’.

96 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:10:35pm

OT

1) Go to google
2) type “Do a barrel roll”
3) Profit

97 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:11:04pm

Seriously.

re: #91 Obdicut

By the way, when you do the quote thing at the bottom of your post, it makes your posts a lot harder to read.

98 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:11:17pm

Damn. You know what? This woman just won the lottery.

99 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:11:33pm

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

1a) don’t use internet explorer
2a) don’t use quotes

100 Why I Never!  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:11:53pm

re: #98 Gus 802

Damn. You know what? This woman just won the lottery.

What’s happening? I can’t watch it from here— entertain and enlighten me, dammit!

101 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:12:03pm

What?

re: #97 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Seriously.

102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:12:36pm

Not from my cold dead pizza!!

re: #88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do you mean the other NRA?

103 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:12:53pm

re: #100 iceweasel

What’s happening? I can’t watch it from here— entertain and enlighten me, dammit!

Her attorney is having a press conference. Giving a general outline of what happened.

104 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:13:09pm

He’s not giving many details, but Herman Cain is looking worse and worse.

105 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:14:07pm

Whoa!

106 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:14:14pm

He said the sheriff is near.

re: #101 Gus 802

What?

107 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:14:25pm

“Where there’s smoke there’s fire.”

108 BongCrodny  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:14:47pm

re: #76 Charles

“Improper advances.”

“My client stands by her complaint.”

She also used the word “painful” in the press release.

I’m sure she’s limited by the settlement to what she could actually say, but “painful” seems to express the idea that Cain is peddling bullshit.

109 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:14:52pm

This guy is a press conference noob and I think the reporters just got him to say something he didn’t want to say (where there’s smoke there’s fire).

110 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:15:08pm

can those of us who can’t hear it get a play by play?

111 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:15:59pm

re: #110 Dreggas

Thrust, parry. Thrust, parry. Thrust, parry.

112 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:16:14pm

Nice sunlight.

113 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:16:29pm

This adds more blood to the water.

114 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:16:36pm

Well this is probably explaining why Mrs. Cain isn’t appearing on Fox.

115 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:16:45pm

It’s hard for me to believe his accuser. What woman wouldn’t welcome Herm Cain’s advances?

116 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:17:03pm

re: #110 Dreggas

can those of us who can’t hear it get a play by play?

No details of what happened. Reaffirmed that it was sexual harassment. Asked for privacy and for the media to respect that. Clarified that it was a settlment, not a severance package. Said that Cain was probably lying about not remembering. Revealed that she was married at the time that this occurred.

117 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:17:47pm

NRA is willing to waive confidentiality…

Uh oh.

118 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:17:56pm

re: #115 reuven

It’s hard for me to believe his accuser. What woman wouldn’t welcome Herm Cain’s advances?

Racists.
/

119 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:18:29pm

re: #116 Obdicut

No details of what happened went down. Reaffirmed that it was sexual harassment. Asked for privacy and for the media to respect that. Clarified that it was a settlment, not a severance package. Said that Cain was probably lying about not remembering. Revealed that she was married at the time that this occurred.

He also made it pretty clear that this wasn’t a single instance, that there were a series of incidents.

120 allegro  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:18:50pm

I think that was quite well done. The CEO sexually harasses a married woman with repeated sexual advances. She does not want to pursue this, i.e. she was dragged into it and wants no part of it. But she stands by her statement. If the media insists on outing her, it is not her doing and not what she wants.

Tells the story pretty well. She can’t be accused of wanting her 15 minutes or of “attacking” Cain. Attacks on her will be pure bullying.

121 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:19:26pm

re: #117 Charles

NRA is willing to waive confidentiality…

Uh oh.

I guess pissing off NRA staffers while he worked there does have some consequences.

122 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:19:48pm

The National Restaurant Association: “we are willing to waive the confidentiality of this matter and permit Mr. Bennett’s client to comment.”

123 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:20:48pm

re: #122 Charles

The National Restaurant Association: “we are willing to waive the confidentiality of this matter and permit Mr. Bennett’s client to comment.”

The new spin will be “That the NRA shot Cain in the back.”

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:20:55pm

re: #122 Charles

She doesn’t seem to want to.

125 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:21:33pm

re: #122 Charles

The National Restaurant Association: “we are willing to waive the confidentiality of this matter and permit Mr. Bennett’s client to comment.”

Block is going to need more cigarettes.

re: #124 Sergey Romanov

She doesn’t seem to want to.

She might not, but there were others.

126 mr.fusion  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:21:54pm

re: #122 Charles

The National Restaurant Association: “we are willing to waive the confidentiality of this matter and permit Mr. Bennett’s client to comment.”

As you pointed out earlier…..I still don’t think this is going to have all that much effect with GOP primary voters. Just another leftist, racist conspiracy for them to rally around

127 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:22:50pm

If the game is name recognition, the Cain campaign is doing well.

128 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:22:59pm

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I guessing pissing off NRA staffers while he worked there does have some consequences.

Not to mention the guy who used to work there and is now working for Perry. He’s gotta be a little pissed that he got blamed for leaking the story.

129 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:22:59pm

re: #122 Charles

Immediately after she has her lawyer state publicly that she doesn’t want to comment.

Timing!

130 allegro  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:23:00pm

re: #124 Sergey Romanov

She doesn’t seem to want to.

I don’t think she needs to. It’s juicier without the details. I also would prefer that the woman not be further brutalized as she most certainly will if she’s outed.

131 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:23:09pm

re: #124 Sergey Romanov

She doesn’t seem to want to.

She’s said she doesn’t want to revisit it— but that means that if Cain keeps on talking about it, that will become moot. She’s said she wants this dropped. The media will not drop it. No way. Cain will almost certainly not drop it either.

132 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:23:15pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There was another one and this NRA statement is not about her, tho maybe they will be willing to let her speak too.

133 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:23:30pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

She might not, but there were others.

They are not “Mr. Bennett’s client.”

134 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:24:07pm

NRA statement: “Mr. Cain was not a party to that agreement.”

135 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:24:48pm

I’m slightly surprised that Breitbart hasn’t yet insinuated himself into this somehow.

136 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:25:06pm

Would any of you be willing to give as much credence to the report that the Obama administration has been accused of creating a ‘hostile environment for females that treats women like meat’?

That is a description of sexual harassment, but without any actual evidence, or some person to come forward with more than anonymous sources and unverifiable statements….

Well, I didn’t give that any more credence than the Herman Cain rumours and allegations.

137 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:25:27pm

“Buck” is going to make me have an aneurysm, Help, please?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:25:41pm

re: #111 neilk

Thrust, parry. Thrust, parry. Thrust, parry.

“BOING!”… (Daffy’s bill is thrust upward)

139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:26:26pm

It’s my dumbphone, sorry.

re: #91 Obdicut

By the way, when you do the quote thing at the bottom of your post, it makes your posts a lot harder to read.

140 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:26:36pm

Oh, here we go…

I dunno if I have the patience to read Buck’s talking points today.

141 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:26:45pm

re: #136 Buck

The settlements are real.

142 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:26:49pm

re: #135 negativ

I’m slightly surprised that Breitbart hasn’t yet insinuated himself into this somehow.

He’s working on it…

@AndrewBreitbart AndrewBreitbart
NBC News Star Rallies #OccupyDC To Protest NRA; Calls For Boycott Against Restaurant Chains For ‘Protecting’ Cain: [link removed]

143 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:27:32pm

re: #141 Sergey Romanov

The settlements are real.

But not an admission of guilt. In fact both sides signed of to that effect.

144 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:27:36pm

re: #136 Buck

If it came out that there were reports that Obama had sexually harassed women, and that settlements had been paid, I’d treat that very seriously indeed.

It’s not going to happen, of course. Obama’s record has been gone over with a fine-tooth comb.

It’s continually weird to me that social conservatives aren’t happier at having a married, stable family man in the White House with no hint of sexual scandal to him.

Well, I didn’t give that any more credence than the Herman Cain rumours and allegations.

You mean, you’re not giving any credence to Cain’s portrayal of what happened?

145 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:27:53pm

re: #139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ah, okay.

146 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:28:02pm

Looks like NRA wants her to talk.

147 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:28:39pm

re: #146 Gus 802

Maybe their primary concern is getting this off of them and onto Cain?

148 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:28:59pm

re: #144 Obdicut

You mean, you’re not giving any credence to Cain’s portrayal of what happened?

Cain’s portrayal of what happened isn’t rumour or allegation.

149 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:28:59pm

re: #143 Buck

Cain wasn’t a party to at least 1 settlement.

Two legal settlements + 1 non-settled accuser do make for a rather convincing case. The burden of proof is now on Cain.

150 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:29:04pm

re: #146 Gus 802

Looks like NRA wants her to talk.

Cain is making them look bad, by basically claiming they settled completely frivolous complaints.

151 aagcobb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:29:31pm

re: #136 Buck

Would any of you be willing to give as much credence to the report that the Obama administration has been accused of creating a ‘hostile environment for females that treats women like meat’?

That is a description of sexual harassment, but without any actual evidence, or some person to come forward with more than anonymous sources and unverifiable statements…

Well, I didn’t give that any more credence than the Herman Cain rumours and allegations.

This story breaking now is a favor to the GOP, Buck. It gives you a chance to see if Cain is a credible presidential candidate before its too late. If he can’t handle this, you still have time to rally to Perry or some other alternative to Romney.

152 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:30:24pm

re: #148 Buck

Cain’s portrayal of what happened isn’t rumour or allegation.

Which one? They change hourly.

153 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:30:42pm

re: #147 windsagio

Maybe their primary concern is getting this off of them and onto Cain?

Yep. This is bad publicity for them. Cain could be gone tomorrow and that really won’t mean a thing for him. NRA is here for the long haul.

154 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:31:02pm

re: #146 Gus 802

They didn’t respond to her request to be released until the exact moment that her lawyer stated in public that she didn’t want to be released any more. Looks like not.

155 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:31:09pm

re: #151 aagcobb

This story breaking now is a favor to the GOP, Buck. It gives you a chance to see if Cain is a credible presidential candidate before its too late. If he can’t handle this, you still have time to rally to Perry or some other alternative to Romney.

Right, like the “Obama, not born in the USA” was a favor for the Democrats.
//

156 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:31:15pm

A couple of observations. Joel Bennett’s comments are contrary to what Cain has been saying, so there’s a dispute over the facts involved. He claims that Cain engaged in a sustained pattern of behavior over a period of a month or two. That’s not an isolated incident.

But the fact that this presser was given on the customary Friday Night News Dump time slot suggests that they’re soft pedaling the news because they don’t want to get dragged through a mess that they had no part of revisiting (but because Cain is a national figure, this is coming to light). It also is suggestive that she wasn’t the one leaking the details (and may not have wanted them out in the first place). Interesting dynamic.

That still leaves who was providing these juicy tidbits to Politico and other outlets, and that there’s already a growing pile of evidence that Cain engaged in harassment of at least this woman, if not the others.

157 Firstinla  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:31:15pm

re: #148 Buck

Cain’s portrayal of what happened isn’t rumour or allegation.

And of course he has no reason to cover his ass.
/

158 mr.fusion  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:31:31pm

Anybody else leave CNN on after the press conference? WH just completely bitch slapped House Republicans over the Solyndra subpoenas….

159 jaunte  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:31:49pm

re: #148 Buck

Cain’s portrayal of what happened isn’t rumour or allegation.

It’s an assertion without proof, hence an allegation.

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:32:03pm

re: #155 Buck

Right, like the “Obama, not born in the USA” was a favor for the Democrats.
//

Birtherism, overall, did more good to Ds - by harming Rs.

161 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:32:14pm

re: #155 Buck

Right, like the “Obama, not born in the USA” was a favor for the Democrats.
//

False equivalence.

But of course you already knew that.

162 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:32:17pm

re: #148 Buck

Cain’s portrayal of what happened isn’t rumour or allegation.

Huh? He’s said the claims were baseless. How is that not an allegation that she complained without an actual basis to complain?

163 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:32:22pm

NRA Statement:

The National Restaurant Association released this statement from its President and CEO Dawn Sweeney, on the allegations of past sexual harassment by Herman Cain during his time heading up the organization in the late 1990’s:

“We have seen the statement Joel Bennett released earlier today on behalf of his client, a former employee of the Association. The Association consented to the release of that statement, at the request of Mr. Bennett’s client.

“Based upon the information currently available, we can confirm that more than a decade ago, in July 1999, Mr. Bennett’s client filed a formal internal complaint, in accordance with the Association’s existing policies prohibiting discrimination and harassment. Mr. Herman Cain disputed the allegations in the complaint. The Association and Mr. Bennett’s client subsequently entered into an agreement to resolve the matter, without any admission of liability. Mr. Cain was not a party to that agreement. The agreement contains mutual confidentiality obligations. Notwithstanding the Association’s ongoing policy of maintaining the privacy of all personnel matters, we have advised Mr. Bennett that we are willing to waive the confidentiality of this matter and permit Mr. Bennett’s client to comment. As indicated in Mr. Bennett’s statement, his client prefers not to be further involved with this matter and we will respect her decision.

“The Association has robust policies designed to ensure that employees with concerns may bring them forward for prompt investigation and resolution, without risk of retaliation. The Association is fully committed to equal employment opportunity and to an environment that is free from any discrimination or harassment.”

164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:33:01pm

re: #151 aagcobb

2011 October Suprise < 2012 October Surprise.
or
2011 October Suprise >
or
2011 October Suprise > 2012 October Surprise.

All about perspective.

165 aagcobb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:33:08pm

re: #155 Buck

Right, like the “Obama, not born in the USA” was a favor for the Democrats.
//

You would prefer that this story break next October, if Cain won the nomination?

166 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:33:33pm

re: #162 Obdicut

Huh? He’s said the claims were baseless. How is that not an allegation that she complained without an actual basis to complain?

Wait: words have meaning?

167 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:33:33pm

re: #155 Buck

Right, like the “Obama, not born in the USA” was a favor for the Democrats.
//

Why should you care since in the last thread you claimed to live in Canada?

168 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:34:08pm

They definitely want her to come forward.

169 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:34:28pm

re: #167 ausador

Why should you care since in the last thread you claimed to live in Canada?

He does live in Canada, but boy oh boy is he ever concerned about US politics.

170 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:34:29pm

The NRA will be around long after Cain leaves the political stage. They have a long history and don’t need this kind of scandal affecting their efforts in lobbying and advocacy. This is a mess that Cain is dumping on them, and they want no part of it. So, they’re going to collaterally go after whoever they can to try and clear their name - and that includes those party to these NDAs - plus Cain.

171 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:34:32pm

re: #160 Sergey Romanov

Birtherism, overall, did more good to Ds - by harming Rs.

Given a choice, lib strategists would have wanted to sit on this so they could bring it out when and if Cain did happen to win the nomination. As it is, it does a lot more for Perry and Romney than for any Democrat.

172 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:34:46pm

re: #168 Gus 802

They definitely want her to come forward.

It’s gotta be tough for her since you know as well as I do that she will be harassed mercilessly.

173 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:34:49pm

re: #167 ausador

Why should you care since in the last thread you claimed to live in Canada?

That was just an allegation.

174 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:35:16pm

Wasn’t there a former highup in the NRA (they need a new acronym) working for Perry?

That’s still my favorite theory on how this came out.

175 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:35:22pm

re: #162 Obdicut

Huh? He’s said the claims were baseless. How is that not an allegation that she complained without an actual basis to complain?

That is his assertion. You are hearing it from him directly. The crime is alleged. It never went to court. The settlements did not admit guilt. The women who signed them agreed to that. You can allege guilt, but ‘not guilty’ is how it ended up, in fact.

176 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:35:30pm

re: #172 HappyWarrior

It’s gotta be tough for her since you know as well as I do that she will be harassed mercilessly.

Yep. By the wingnuts.

177 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:35:53pm

re: #162 Obdicut

Huh? He’s said the claims were baseless. How is that not an allegation that she complained without an actual basis to complain?

Forget it Jake, it’s Bucktown.

178 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:36:13pm

re: #167 ausador

Why should you care since in the last thread you claimed to live in Canada?

FUCK YOU. I can live anywhere I want, and care about anything I want. Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can post on?

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:36:15pm

re: #169 Obdicut

He does live in Canada, but boy oh boy is he ever concerned about US politics.

Not a fair criticism since not all people here are from the US.

As long as the US is a “global leader”, people will have their say on your politics.

180 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:36:17pm

re: #171 Shiplord Kirel

Given a choice, lib strategists would have wanted to sit on this so they could bring it out when and if Cain did happen to win the nomination. As it is, it does a lot more for Perry and Romney than for any Democrat.

Yeah his primary opponents benefit from this above all. Just like the Edwards allegation in 2008 for the Dems didn’t reflect poorly on Obama and Clinton’s character. These reflect on Cain’s and not Romney or Perry’s or anyone else.

181 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:36:37pm

re: #168 Gus 802

They definitely want her to come forward.

The restaurant world isn’t an old boys club, and sexual harassment is something that it’s struggled with for a long time. There’s a lot of female owners of restaurants, a lot of female executive chefs. I’m sure they don’t want to be known as a place that sweeps sexual harassment under the rug. I think they’re probably fucking embarrassed at having Cain as their ex-head, as he makes foolish statement after foolish statement.

182 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:36:56pm

re: #169 Obdicut

He does live in Canada, but boy oh boy is he ever concerned about US politics.

Oh, a just another concern troll…how boring. :(

183 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:37:12pm

re: #175 Buck

That is his assertion. You are hearing it from him directly. It is alleged. It never went to court. The settlements did not admit guilt. The women who signed them agreed to that. You can allege guilt, but ‘not guilty’ is how it ended up, in fact.

Wrong. There was no final adjudication, so the only real result was that money changed hands.

And it was civil, not criminal, so “guilty” or “not guilty” were never possible outcomes. Just “he owes her money” or “he doesn’t owe her money”. Since he paid, it sorta ended up on the “he owes her money” side of the ledger.

184 mr.fusion  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:37:23pm

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

Not a fair criticism since not all people here are from the US.

As long as the US is a “global leader”, people will have their say on your politics.

Fresh perspective should always be welcome….

185 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:37:26pm

re: #175 Buck

You can allege guilt, but ‘not guilty’ is how it ended up, in fact.

That’s a lie. Not guilty is a verdict rendered in a court.

186 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:37:27pm

re: #175 Buck

That is his assertion. You are hearing it from him directly. It is alleged. It never went to court. The settlements did not admit guilt. The women who signed them agreed to that. You can allege guilt, but ‘not guilty’ is how it ended up, in fact.

Well. In that case you can no longer say that CAIR is an unindicted co-conspirator now can you?

187 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:37:48pm

re: #178 Buck

FUCK YOU. I can live anywhere I want, and care about anything I want. Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can post on?

HAY GUYS?!?!?!

WHAT’S HAPPENING?!?!?!?!

188 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:37:52pm

That’s different!

189 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:38:19pm

re: #181 Obdicut

The restaurant world isn’t an old boys club, and sexual harassment is something that it’s struggled with for a long time. There’s a lot of female owners of restaurants, a lot of female executive chefs. I’m sure they don’t want to be known as a place that sweeps sexual harassment under the rug. I think they’re probably fucking embarrassed at having Cain as their ex-head, as he makes foolish statement after foolish statement.

Believe the current NRA president is a woman. But yeah totally agreed coming from someone whose had family in the restaurant industry though not on the ownership side.

190 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:38:28pm

re: #175 Buck

It was an allegation that was sufficient to get the NRA to enter into an NDA and to pay a settlement. That’s not an admission of guilt on the part of Cain, but it suggests that the NRA wasn’t willing to let this drag out and potentially result in a finding against Cain and the NRA in court (where it would be a finding of guilty on the sexual harassment charges). They chose the least costly option.

From the sound of things, it was probably the best move that NRA made - to get these settlements and the NDAs. Otherwise, it would have gotten costly for the NRA and Cain.

191 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:39:15pm

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

Not a fair criticism since not all people here are from the US.

As long as the US is a “global leader”, people will have their say on your politics.

It’s true, but Buck goes quite beyond that, often attempting to lecture about the constitution when he’s amazingly ignorant on the subject.

192 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:39:22pm

re: #190 lawhawk

It was an allegation that was sufficient to get the NRA to enter into an NDA and to pay a settlement. That’s not an admission of guilt on the part of Cain, but it suggests that the NRA wasn’t willing to let this drag out and potentially result in a finding against Cain and the NRA in court (where it would be a finding of guilty on the sexual harassment charges). They chose the least costly option.

From the sound of things, it was probably the best move that NRA made - to get these settlements and the NDAs. Otherwise, it would have gotten costly for the NRA and Cain.

Can you imagine Cain as a witness under oath? A good lawyer would would have the time of his life.

193 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:39:27pm

Buck’s having a meltdown.

194 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:39:49pm

re: #184 mr.fusion

Fresh perspective should always be welcome…

Yeah, it would nice if Buck actually had one.
/

195 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:39:52pm

re: #175 Buck

That is his assertion. You are hearing it from him directly. It is alleged. It never went to court. The settlements did not admit guilt. The women who signed them agreed to that. You can allege guilt, but ‘not guilty’ is how it ended up, in fact.

wow, you are just always making shit up! Well done sir!

maybe Canada style law works differently!

O CAAAANADA

196 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:40:07pm

re: #190 lawhawk

It also suggests that the NRA wasn’t willing to let this drag out and cost them more in legal fees.

Often, as you know, legal disputes are settled without the accused being actually guilty.

197 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:40:17pm

re: #192 garhighway

Can you imagine Cain as a witness under oath? A good lawyer would would have the time of his life.

I wonder if they give discounts on perjury if you commit it like twelve times in a row.

198 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:40:30pm

re: #192 garhighway

Heh. At this point, he’s now a walking perjury trap when it comes to this entire issue.

If I were representing him, I’d never let him testify. You couldn’t trust him on the stand.

199 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:40:41pm

re: #197 Obdicut

I wonder if they give discounts on perjury if you commit it like twelve times in a row.

They deliver it in 30 minutes or less.

200 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:40:42pm

re: #191 Obdicut

It’s true, but Buck goes quite beyond that, often attempting to lecture about the constitution when he’s amazingly ignorant on the subject.

That reminds me, we never got that citation on bells ringing in Paul Revere’s letter.

201 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:41:14pm

I read a compelling argument that the NRA probably had harassment insurance that took the whole thing out of their hands.

202 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:41:35pm

re: #196 Buck

It also suggests that the NRA wasn’t willing to let this drag out and cost them more in legal fees.

Often, as you know, legal disputes are settled without the accused being actually guilty.

So have we retracted the allegation of a result of “not guilty”, Buck?

203 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:41:53pm

re: #201 neilk

I read a compelling argument that the NRA probably had harassment insurance that took the whole thing out of their hands.

could be!

204 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:42:15pm

re: #200 goddamnedfrank

Other allegations that Cain has made:

1. That this was a one time incident
2. That he was not aware of this
3. That he was aware of it, but immediately recused himself and passed it along to HR to do an investigation
4. That he can’t remember any details
5. That he can remember a very specific detail about a gesture he made, but nothing else.

Etc.

205 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:42:41pm

I’m sorry Buck, Herman Cain will never become prime minister

206 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:42:42pm

re: #201 neilk

I read a compelling argument that the NRA probably had harassment insurance that took the whole thing out of their hands.

Back when this happened EPL (employment-related practices) insurance wasn’t THAT common, so they may have been uninsured.

207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:42:44pm

re: #200 goddamnedfrank

That reminds me, we never got that citation on bells ringing in Paul Revere’s letter.

*Top of my voice*

CHEROKEE PEOPLE! CHEROKEE TRI-HIBE! SO PROUD TO LIVE! SO PROUD TO DIEEE!!

208 jaunte  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:43:22pm

re: #204 Obdicut

Other allegations that Cain has made:
1. That this was a one time incident

How many women were there at the time?

209 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:43:23pm

re: #196 Buck

That’s true, but here we’ve got a pattern of events that are suggesting that there was a reason that the severance was as high as it was - and that more than one woman was harassed in some fashion.

If there was just a solitary accuser and a single event, I might be inclined to lean towards saying that they paid to make it go away as a nuisance fee, but with multiple incidents, and multiple accusers? That’s straining credulity.

210 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:43:26pm

re: #204 Obdicut

Other allegations that Cain has made:

1. That this was a one time incident
2. That he was not aware of this
3. That he was aware of it, but immediately recused himself and passed it along to HR to do an investigation
4. That he can’t remember any details
5. That he can remember a very specific detail about a gesture he made, but nothing else.

Etc.

Every time you spin the wheel you get a new and different result.

211 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:43:32pm

re: #202 garhighway

So have we retracted the allegation of a result of “not guilty”, Buck?

No, if a crime was committed, it was not prosecuted. I have heard prosecutors explain that they are dropping a case becasue the accuded was not guilty. It is an expression that doesn’t HAVE to ONLY come from a judge or jury.

212 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:43:39pm

re: #206 garhighway

Oh shit I need to renew my general liability insurance.

Thank you for reminding me.

213 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:43:49pm

re: #208 jaunte

How many women were there at the time?

Wait: are we going to get to speak French here?

214 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:43:57pm

re: #205 WindUpBird

I’m sorry Buck, Herman Cain will never become prime minister

Yep. Looks like they’ll be stuck with Harper for life!

//

215 jaunte  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:44:05pm

re: #213 garhighway

Nein!

216 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:44:28pm

Image: ASSERT.JPG

217 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:44:31pm

re: #178 Buck

FUCK YOU. I can live anywhere I want, and care about anything I want. Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can post on?

I am an actual citizen of the United States and I vote. How about you concern yourself with Canadian politics instead of purposefully trolling this board, like maybe when the next time Quebec is going to try to vote for Secession will be? ;)

218 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:44:39pm

re: #204 Obdicut

Other allegations that Cain has made:

1. That this was a one time incident
2. That he was not aware of this
3. That he was aware of it, but immediately recused himself and passed it along to HR to do an investigation
4. That he can’t remember any details
5. That he can remember a very specific detail about a gesture he made, but nothing else.

Etc.

He’s only digging himself a deeper hole. The GOP establishment who don’t trust Romney probably wish there was a better anti Romney out there. Cain just seems to be a potential disaster as a nominee.

219 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:44:50pm

re: #211 Buck

What you said:

You can allege guilt, but ‘not guilty’ is how it ended up, in fact.

That’s a lie. It never went to court, was never adjudicated, and Cain’s guilt or innocence on the matter was not settled.

220 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:45:00pm

re: #211 Buck

No, if a crime was committed, it was not prosecuted. I have heard prosecutors explain that they are dropping a case becasue the accuded was not guilty. It is an expression that doesn’t HAVE to ONLY come from a judge or jury.

Oh, absolutely. I didn’t realize you were saying that the blind guy who runs the candy stand in the courthouse lobby pronounced him not guilty. My mistake. Sorry about that.

221 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:46:14pm

re: #212 Obdicut

Oh shit I need to renew my general liability insurance.

Thank you for reminding me.

No charge!

222 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:46:30pm

re: #209 lawhawk

That’s true, but here we’ve got a pattern of events that are suggesting that there was a reason that the severance was as high as it was - and that more than one woman was harassed in some fashion.

If there was just a solitary accuser and a single event, I might be inclined to lean towards saying that they paid to make it go away as a nuisance fee, but with multiple incidents, and multiple accusers? That’s straining credulity.

Two isn’t a pattern, but even if it is, it might just as well be a pattern of false accusations. You don’t know anything about the accusations, or circumstances.

223 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:48:10pm

re: #207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

*Top of my voice*

CHEROKEE PEOPLE! CHEROKEE TRI-HIBE! SO PROUD TO LIVE! SO PROUD TO DIEEE!!

Last time I saw him he was playing at an Obon festival at a park near Rancho Cordova.

224 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:48:25pm

re: #211 Buck

No, if a crime was committed, it was not prosecuted. I have heard prosecutors explain that they are dropping a case becasue the accuded was not guilty. It is an expression that doesn’t HAVE to ONLY come from a judge or jury.

Look up the difference between civil and criminal law skinjob. Cain was never accused of any crime, therefore the term “guilt” doesn’t apply and there is no “prosecutor” but instead a “plaintiff’s attorney.” Rulings in civil court do not reference guilt at all, they are either for one side or the other.

225 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:48:49pm

re: #224 goddamnedfrank

Look up the difference between civil and criminal law skinjob. Cain was never accused of any crime, therefore the term “guilt” doesn’t apply and there is no “prosecutor” but instead a “plaintiff’s attorney.” Rulings in civil court do not reference guilt at all, they are either for one side or the other.

Again with the facts.

226 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:48:53pm

re: #222 Buck

It’s true that it is possible. That, however, is irrelevant when it comes to vetting a presidential candidate. There should be a full accounting.

227 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:48:59pm

re: #175 Buck

‘not guilty’ is how it ended up, in fact.

no, not a fact

what could you possibly cite to justify such a counterfactual assertion?

228 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:48:59pm

Great, now the thread’s all bucked up.

229 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:49:01pm

re: #218 HappyWarrior

He’s only digging himself a deeper hole. The GOP establishment who don’t trust Romney probably wish there was a better anti Romney out there. Cain just seems to be a potential disaster as a nominee.

Cain’s waffling and inconsistency will hurt him more than the allegations themselves, since the latter will forever remain deniable, especially by wingnut standards.

230 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:49:03pm

re: #219 Obdicut

What you said:

That’s a lie. It never went to court, was never adjudicated, and Cain’s guilt or innocence on the matter was not settled.

You love that word. No it is not a lie. It is an expression. I am not guilty of punching you in the face, even if it didn’t go to court.

231 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:49:38pm

re: #217 ausador

I am an actual citizen of the United States and I vote. How about you concern yourself with Canadian politics instead of purposefully trolling this board, like maybe when the next time Quebec is going to try to vote for Secession will be? ;)

I once read on a German-language blog written by an American expat ( [Link: usaerklaert.wordpress.com…] ) that the place to be most safe from a US President in was the United States itself because of the traditionally weak domestic power the office of President holds there versus the traditionally strong foreign policy power.

I agree with Sergey. Foreigners are legit discussion participatnts on US Presidential elections and the preceeding processes.

232 jaunte  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:50:06pm

Guilty is ‘only a theory’.

233 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:50:15pm

re: #222 Buck

Two isn’t a pattern, but even if it is, it might just as well be a pattern of false accusations. You don’t know anything about the accusations, or circumstances.

corporations don’t usually award somebody a year’s salary for what they deem to be false accusations

234 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:50:27pm

re: #222 Buck

Two isn’t a pattern, but even if it is, it might just as well be a pattern of false accusations. You don’t know anything about the accusations, or circumstances.

Did you watch the press conference? I’m assuming you didn’t because you’re talking out of your ass.

The woman whose lawyer appeared at the presser said their were numerous instances that went on over a period of a month or two.

Cain was harassing her. Hell, he might even have been stalking her. Why do you think NRA paid out the damn money, genius?

235 HoosierHoops  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:50:27pm

re: #209 lawhawk

That’s true, but here we’ve got a pattern of events that are suggesting that there was a reason that the severance was as high as it was - and that more than one woman was harassed in some fashion.

If there was just a solitary accuser and a single event, I might be inclined to lean towards saying that they paid to make it go away as a nuisance fee, but with multiple incidents, and multiple accusers? That’s straining credulity.

I’m starting to see the Tiger Woods effect coming on…
First there was only one woman.. Then two..Then Three..After 6 weeks there were 15! This is just starting to unfold…

236 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:50:33pm

re: #230 Buck

You’re such a partisan hack.
Since this is an R, you defend and deflect.
If this were a D, you’d attack and malign.

237 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:50:47pm

re: #229 Shiplord Kirel

Cain’s waffling and inconsistency will hurt him more than the allegations themselves, since the latter will forever remain deniable, especially by wingnut standards.

There is no hurt. There is no Cain candidacy. There never was.

238 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:51:00pm

re: #227 engineer dog

no, not a fact

what could you possibly cite to justify such a counterfactual assertion?

The settlements. Once the women accepted money, they gave up the right to continue to accuse him. It ended, and if you can’t say he is guilty, so….the other choice….

239 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:51:03pm

re: #229 Shiplord Kirel

Cain’s waffling and inconsistency will hurt him more than the allegations themselves, since the latter will forever remain deniable, especially by wingnut standards.

Kind of like how the Watergate cover up was worse than the break in itself for Nixon? But yeah he’s just not showing any discipline as a candidate. He’s really showing why he’s never been elected to any government office. Government’s totally different than the business world.

240 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:51:14pm

re: #230 Buck

Nice choice of example. Very calm.

If you’re using the colloquial, not legal meaning, then can you explain how you’ve arrived at the conclusion that Cain did not sexually harass these women? The way you’re defining it, you’re making it a positive affirmation of fact— that it did not occur.

241 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:51:20pm

re: #230 Buck

You love that word. No it is not a lie. It is an expression. I am not guilty of punching you in the face, even if it didn’t go to court.

Technically, Qadaffi was not guilty of war crimes because a court of law never found him guilty.

242 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:51:40pm

re: #233 engineer dog

corporations don’t usually award somebody a year’s salary for what they deem to be false accusations

Agree. I see a fair amount of this stuff in my job, and while every case is different, you don’t normally pay a year’s salary as nuisance money.

243 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:51:51pm

re: #231 000G

This stance (only Amercians should concern themselves with the US politics) is not only unrealistic (nuh-uh, not until the US gets out of all the world’s affairs) but smells of some sort of jingoism.

244 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:52:26pm

re: #238 Buck

The settlements. Once the women accepted money, they gave up the right to continue to accuse him. It ended, and if you can’t say he is guilty, so…the other choice…

Dude, that’s not how it works. You fucking know that’s not how it works. There are so many things wrong with those statements that I have no idea where to start.

245 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:52:44pm

re: #238 Buck

The settlements. Once the women accepted money, they gave up the right to continue to accuse him. It ended, and if you can’t say he is guilty, so…the other choice…

logic fail

try again

246 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:52:49pm

re: #241 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Technically, Qadaffi was not guilty of war crimes because a court of law never found him guilty.

WOW… you are comparing Cain to Qadaffi ? How incredibly racist of you…

//

247 neilk  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:53:20pm

re: #231 000G

the place to be most safe from a US President in was the United States itself because of the traditionally weak domestic power the office of President holds there versus the traditionally strong foreign policy power.

I’m a US citizen who’s been an expat for 7 years and I’ve found that my interest in U.S. politics has not diminished as it is just as relevant to my life, not least for this reason. The fact that the U.S. economy is so big that its ripple effects are felt all over the world is the biggest reason, IMO.

248 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:53:23pm

re: #243 Sergey Romanov

This stance (only Amercians should concern themselves with the US politics) is not only unrealistic (nuh-uh, not until the US gets out of all the world’s affairs) but smells of some sort of jingoism.

It’s more a ironic hit at Buck because so many of his political buddies in the US don’t give two hoots what foreigners think.

249 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:53:47pm

re: #245 engineer dog

logic fail

try again

What happens to someone’s brain that they think that that makes sense? :D

250 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:53:52pm

re: #246 Buck

Nice deflection chief.

251 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:53:55pm

re: #246 Buck

WOW… you are comparing Cain to Qadaffi ? How incredibly racist of you…

//

Gee, such a way to switch tracks.

Address the analogy. Not the persons are being compared but situations.

252 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:54:01pm

re: #222 Buck

Two isn’t a pattern, but even if it is, it might just as well be a pattern of false accusations. You don’t know anything about the accusations, or circumstances.

Neither do you. Yet you’re trying to say there’s nothing there.

We have two settlements, plus at least one who didn’t take it to the full pursuit and resolution stage. There are a few possibilities here.

1) He dood it.
2) He didn’t do it, but his behavior was such that refuting the accusations was difficult — making it cheaper to pay a year’s salary than to defend.
3) He didn’t do it, didn’t even do the activities that might have been misinterpreted, but the accusers’ attorneys were so good and so determined that they couldn’t be dismissed cheaply.

We know the third isn’t true. He described some actions himself in ONE of his defenses.

The evidence between one and two isn’t clear (yet). So we’re left with Occam’s razor.

It slices the “didn’t do it” out as requiring a LOT more things to sustain. It might still turn out valid, but right now it looks like Cain dood it.

253 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:54:32pm

OK, seriously. Is there a way to underail this thread? Or is it too Bucked up for that at this point?

254 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:54:52pm

re: #238 Buck

The settlements. Once the women accepted money, they gave up the right to continue to accuse him. It ended, and if you can’t say he is guilty, so…the other choice…

I would like to declare a winner in the “most absolutely fantastically crazy piece of non-logic in the history of LGF” contest. Let the record show that at Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:51:00pm, in post 238, Buck took the prize.

Kudos, sir.

255 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:54:58pm

What have we learned today?

We have learned that a settlement payout ERASES TIME


awesome!

256 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:55:35pm

re: #253 Simply Sarah

OK, seriously. Is there a way to underail this thread? Or is it too Bucked up for that at this point?

It’s just miles of Buckchode as far as the eye can see


A landscape of supple Buckflesh, from which there is no escape

257 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:55:53pm

I’m still digging that the settlement was signed in 9/99. :)

258 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:55:58pm

re: #255 WindUpBird

What have we learned today?

We have learned that a settlement payout ERASES TIME

awesome!

Family member dies, accept insurance payoff, What family member?

259 Firstinla  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:56:08pm

re: #246 Buck

WOW… you are comparing Cain to Qadaffi ? How incredibly racist of you…

//

Now I understand your karma ranking. I think I’ll add to it.

260 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:56:30pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Family member dies, accept insurance payoff, What family member?

You can’t explain that!

261 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:56:43pm

re: #257 makeitstop

I’m still digging that the settlement was signed in 9/99. :)

Ah seventh grade. Good times.

262 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:56:52pm

re: #243 Sergey Romanov

This stance (only Amercians should concern themselves with the US politics) is not only unrealistic (nuh-uh, not until the US gets out of all the world’s affairs) but smells of some sort of jingoism.

One could also argue that because of climate change, foreign interest even in US Congress is well justified.

263 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:57:15pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Family member dies, accept insurance payoff, What family member?

Get hurt on the job, accept disability, what broken leg???

264 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:57:19pm

it’s difficult for all of us to stop thinking of this case in terms of democracy and courts

corporations are not democracies, they don’t hold courts, and certainly don’t empanel juries. neither do they arrive at formal or binding decisions of guilty or not guilty

265 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:57:40pm

Lots of knowing (and therefore many halves of the battle) to be found in this video.

Youtube Video
266 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:57:58pm

re: #264 engineer dog

it’s difficult for all of us to stop thinking of this case in terms of democracy and courts

corporations are not democracies, they don’t hold courts, and certainly don’t empanel juries. neither do they arrive at formal or binding decisions of guilty or not guilty

Are you sure it’s all of us with that problem? It mostly just seems to be Buck.

267 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:58:08pm

re: #265 negativ

Ah, Fensler.

268 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:58:24pm

re: #262 000G

One could also argue that because of climate change, foreign interest even in US Congress is well justified.

Climate change, trend-setting (thus the Supreme Court), many things.

269 leftynyc  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:58:29pm

re: #211 Buck

No, if a crime was committed, it was not prosecuted. I have heard prosecutors explain that they are dropping a case becasue the accuded was not guilty. It is an expression that doesn’t HAVE to ONLY come from a judge or jury.

Now you’re just flailing. If it was just one woman, perhaps you would have some kind of point but just how many women and 10s of thousand of dollars would it take for you to stop defending this creep?

270 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:58:38pm

Things That Don’t Affect Whether Herman Cain Sexually Harassed Two Women In the 1990s

Whether President Obama Has Ties To Bill Ayers
“They ought to be asking questions to President Obama about his relationship with Bill Ayers, not asking me.” -Herman Cain, 11/3/11

Whether President Obama’s Grades Are Publicly Available
“You guys are going to vet this and I have no doubt you’ll look into this as carefully as Obamas grades.” -Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX)

Whether Bill Clinton Was Accused Of Sexually Harassing Women In The 1990s
“But they don’t care about real sexual harassment as we know from Bill Clinton. He dropped his pants and said kiss it to Paula Jones.” -Ann Coulter, 10/31/11

“But shall we recall another time? When a sitting President of the United States, a white liberal, was accused by multiple women of not only sexual harassment… but rape?” -Jeffrey Lord 10/30/11

Whether Clarence Thomas Was Accused Of Sexually Harassing Women In The 1990s
“In the eyes of the liberal media, Herman Cain is just another uppity black American who has had the audacity to leave the liberal plantation. So they must destroy him, just as they tried destroying Clarence Thomas.” -Brent Bozell, Media Research Center, 10/31/11

Whether Cain’s Accusers Are Liberal
“Iowa Rep. Steve King said the women who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment are likely ‘liberal activists’ and ‘official hyperventilaters’ of the first order.” -Politico, 11/3/11

Whether Herman Cain Is Popular
“I believe this is coming up now because I’m doing so well in this Republican presidential campaign… a lot of people have a problem with the fact that I’m doing so well and I’m so likable.” -Herman Cain, 10/31/11

Whether Herman Cain’s Policy Positions Are Popular
“[S]ince they cannot shoot holes in my proposals, my plans, they’re going to try to shoot holes in me, the candidate. So that’s the reason it is coming up now.” -Herman Cain, 10/31/11

Whether A Rival Campaign Leaked The Story
“Rick Perry needs to apologize to Herman Cain and, quite frankly, to America.” -Mark Block, 11/2/11

Whether Rahm Emanuel Was Somehow Involved
“A friend of the Cain campaign believes a National Restaurant Association (NRA) employee out of the Chicago office leaked the story to the Perry campaign via information and influence from Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s office.” -Washington Times, 11/2/11

Whether Liberals Dislike Cain
“They’re at it again. The left is trying to destroy Herman Cain.” -Fundraising e-mail for a pro-Cain Super PAC, Americans For Herman Cain.

Whether Republican Elites Dislike Cain
“[B]ecause I am unconventional candidate running an unconventional campaign and achieving some unexpected unconventional results in terms of my, the poll, we believe that, yes, there are some people who are Democrats, liberals, who do not want to see me win the nomination. And there could be some people on the right who don’t want to see me because I’m not the, quote/unquote, ‘establishment candidate.’” -Herman Cain 11/2/11

Whether Herman Cain’s Race And Ideology Frightens Liberals
“Liberals are terrified of Herman Cain. He is a strong conservative black man. Look at the way they go after Allen West and Michael Steele and they aren’t even running against Obama. They are terrified of strong, conservative, black men.” -Ann Coulter 10/30/11

“It really is about blacks and Hispanics getting too uppity.” -Rush Limbaugh 10/31/11

Whether You Think Sexual Harassment Is A ‘Thing’
“Is there anyone who thinks sexual harassment is a real thing?” -John Derbyshire, 11/2/11

271 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:59:08pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thread winner.

272 HoosierHoops  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:59:25pm

re: #254 garhighway

I would like to declare a winner in the “most absolutely fantastically crazy piece of non-logic in the history of LGF” contest. Let the record show that at Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:51:00pm, in post 238, Buck took the prize.

Kudos, sir.

Nope..He’s not even close.. I think the record for downdings is around 400 by Annefrance…She also posted from Canada..But Buck is Amateur hour historically
/Buck up Buck

273 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:59:26pm

re: #155 Buck

Right, like the “Obama, not born in the USA” was a favor for the Democrats.
//

Actually, it was a HUGE favor for the Democrats. The birther shit exposed the racist, ignorant elements in both parties, but primarily in the GOP, who will never accept a black POTUS.

Also, those same bigots? They won’t accept a black Republican POTUS either. Just so you know.

274 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:59:32pm

re: #263 Varek Raith

Get hurt on the job, accept disability, what broken leg???

Car catches fire due to defect, accept settlement, what defect?

275 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:59:34pm

re: #238 Buck

The settlements. Once the women accepted money, they gave up the right to continue to accuse him. It ended, and if you can’t say he is guilty, so…the other choice…

WTF? Srsly, dude…

276 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:00:24pm

re: #273 Lidane

They, will show that they’re not racist after all.

277 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:00:32pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Things That Don’t Affect Whether Herman Cain Sexually Harassed Two Women In the 1990s

I don’t know about you but I love that they think the left is behind this. Hilarious.

278 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:00:34pm

re: #272 HoosierHoops

Nope..He’s not even close.. I think the record for downdings is around 400 by Annefrance…She also posted from Canada..But Buck is Amateur hour historically
/Buck up Buck

Good times…

279 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:00:40pm

re: #238 Buck

Wow. You really are an idiot.

Monetary settlements don’t suddenly negate what happened.

280 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:01:13pm

Bad news for Cain, Gingrich gaining ground, he’s the next clown out of the GOP car…

Seriously, all the pundits have Cain defectors picking Newt as their backup.
[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

281 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:01:31pm

re: #279 Lidane

Wow. You really are an idiot.

Monetary settlements don’t suddenly negate what happened.

I worked today, I got paid, therefore I never worked.
Awesome.

282 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:01:50pm

re: #280 Thanos

Bad news for Cain, Gingrich gaining ground, he’s the next clown out of the GOP car…

Seriously, all the pundits have Cain defectors picking Newt as their backup.
[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

Sleaze to super sleaze?

283 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:01:57pm

re: #279 Lidane

Wow. You really are an idiot.

Monetary settlements don’t suddenly negate what happened.

I remember an episode of Star Trek where that happened. Spock had a fu manchu. It was great.

284 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:02:03pm

Buck simply can’t live in Canada, because if he did his screen name would be “Le Buck”, case closed. :p

///

285 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:02:20pm

glad this incident has finally hit the wall…most boring story ever

286 jaunte  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:02:21pm

re: #280 Thanos

I’m glad to hear Santorum isn’t surging.

287 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:02:28pm

re: #284 ausador

Buck simply can’t live in Canada, because if he did his screen name would be “Le Buck”, case closed. :p

///

Eh?

288 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:02:44pm

re: #286 jaunte

I’m glad to hear Santorum isn’t surging.

trickling.

289 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:02:45pm

re: #281 Varek Raith

I worked today, I got paid, therefore I never worked.
Awesome.

Right?

I had an internship that involved a 30+ mile commute each way. I got paid a gas stipend every two weeks. That means I never drove there at all.

Quick! Someone get Hawking on the phone to explain the physics of that.

290 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:02:49pm
The settlements. Once the women accepted money, they gave up the right to continue to accuse him. It ended, and if you can’t say he is guilty, so…the other choice…

WE WERE ALWAYS AT WAR WITH EASTASIA!

(Remember that DailyShow interview where a Republican strategist appeared to say that the truth should be decided by the American people? BTW, conservatives are really the most radical postmodernists out there.)

291 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:04:24pm

And I made the mistake of looking at Yahoo! comments on the story. I really ought to know better by now.

292 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:04:25pm

re: #284 ausador

Buck simply can’t live in Canada, because if he did his screen name would be “Le Buck”, case closed. :p

///

Good thing he doesn’t live in Germany then.

NSFW!

Youtube Video
293 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:04:28pm

re: #286 jaunte

I’m glad to hear Santorum isn’t surging.

Damn me and my dirty mind, ughh that was a mental picture that I didn’t want to see.

294 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:04:34pm

re: #259 Firstinla

Now I understand your karma ranking. I think I’ll add to it.

Reminds me. I haven’t looked at my karma score in quite a while.

(checking now)

Not bad, not bad at all. Btw, last week was my tenth anniversary at LGF. Some of the stalkerati have condemned me in pretty harsh terms for not abandoning Charles when he quit putting up with crazy people and bigots. Well, bigots anyway. Actually, that was one of the things that kept me here so long. I was in no mood for “kill ‘em all” rhetoric when I got home from Iraq, which happened to coincide with the Big Shake-out here.

295 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:04:49pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Things That Don’t Affect Whether Herman Cain Sexually Harassed Two Women In the 1990s

Big bountiful bucket of logical fallacies, that. Nice!

296 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:05:15pm

The best part about this is Bozell, Limbaugh, Coult,er etc saying oh liberals just hate a black conservative. Do they remember what some of them said so themselves when Colin Powell endorsed Obama?

297 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:06:11pm

re: #296 HappyWarrior

The best part about this is Bozell, Limbaugh, Coult,er etc saying oh liberals just hate a black conservative. Do they remember what some of them said so themselves when Colin Powell endorsed Obama?

Thats because he was no longer one of theirs.

298 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:06:29pm

re: #296 HappyWarrior

The best part about this is Bozell, Limbaugh, Coult,er etc saying oh liberals just hate a black conservative. Do they remember what some of them said so themselves when Colin Powell endorsed Obama?

Who cares? Colin Powell is a RINO anyway.

Why do you hate America?

299 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:07:24pm

I am currently thinking of how wise Colin Powell was not to run.

Obviously, he had a reason, and he wasn’t stupid, and he didn’t run, so his private business was his.

300 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:08:28pm

re: #299 EmmmieG

I am currently thinking of how wise Colin Powell was not to run.

Obviously, he had a reason, and he wasn’t stupid, and he didn’t run, so his private business was his.

IIRC, at the time he said it was because his wife didn’t want him to run. I’m half tempted to think that he saw this sort of writing on the wall even back then, so he wanted no part of it.

301 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:08:34pm

re: #299 EmmmieG

I am currently thinking of how wise Colin Powell was not to run.

Obviously, he had a reason, and he wasn’t stupid, and he didn’t run, so his private business was his.

I think his wife had a role in that decision. Who could blame her? Give me an exotic ambassadorship to a friendly country over POTUS.

302 HoosierHoops  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:09:23pm

re: #294 Shiplord Kirel

Wasn’t it you that called into a Radio Show some years ago and asked Charles a question?
I think I remember that and if it was you.. You have a serious Texas drawl dude ..:)

303 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:09:34pm

re: #298 Lidane

Who cares? Colin Powell is a RINO anyway.

has the percentage of americans who are socialists, rinos, or otherwise not Real Heartland Americans reached 75% yet?

304 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:09:41pm

re: #299 EmmmieG

I would never, ever put my family through this shit.

Though interviews with my brother John would be hilarious.

“Obdicut was always a difficult child. By the time he reached sixteen, we were running out of places to put the bodies. Luckily, that’s when his interest in cannibalism kicked in— and his sublime talent for cookery.”

305 KingKenrod  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10:13pm

re: #280 Thanos

Bad news for Cain, Gingrich gaining ground, he’s the next clown out of the GOP car…

Seriously, all the pundits have Cain defectors picking Newt as their backup.
[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

They’re going to cycle through all of these bozos a few times because they can’t accept the inevitability of the establishment choice.

306 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10:20pm

re: #302 HoosierHoops

Wasn’t it you that called into a Radio Show some years ago and asked Charles a question?
I think I remember that and if it was you.. You have a serious Texas drawl dude ..:)

That was I, and I do have a drawl.

307 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10:31pm

Suspension of Anti-Gay FL School Teacher Just Like Life In Communist Romania

In August of this year, controversy erupted after Florida school teacher Jerry Buell was suspended for posting anti-gay statements on his Facebook page. The case because a Religious Right cause célèbre and Liberty Counsel immediately stepped in to represent him.

Buell’s Liberty Counsel attorney, Harry Mihet, was the guest on “WallBuilders Live” radio program today where he asserted that the reason he fled communist Romania was to escape just this sort of “oppression”

Grow the fuck up.

308 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10:36pm

re: #290 Sergey Romanov

conservatives are really the most radical postmodernists out there.

That’s a really interesting statement. I got to think about that. Can’t come up with any reason for why it could be false. Of course, the obvious intuition that conservatives usually express disdain for postmodern thought merely makes it counter-intuitive (hence interesting).

309 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:11:14pm

re: #304 Obdicut

I would never, ever put my family through this shit.

Though interviews with my brother John would be hilarious.

“He was always a difficult child. By the time he reached sixteen, we were running out of places to put the bodies. Luckily, that’s when his interest in cannibalism kicked in— and his sublime talent for cookery.”

My family could make a killing on family photos alone.

I kid you not when I say we have a picture of me tied up in a chair, surrounded by little sisters in wonder woman underoos. I had volunteered to be the bad guy.

310 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:12:02pm

re: #304 Obdicut

I would never, ever put my family through this shit.

Though interviews with my brother John would be hilarious.

“He was always a difficult child. By the time he reached sixteen, we were running out of places to put the bodies. Luckily, that’s when his interest in cannibalism kicked in— and his sublime talent for cookery.”

Man, if they asked the right people they could get some primo stories about me.

That’s why ‘If called I will not answer, if nominated I will not serve.’ :)

311 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:12:06pm

re: #308 000G

It first dawned on me when I was reading on creationism-evolution issues. “Teach all theories” and all that.

312 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:12:06pm

re: #309 EmmmieG

My family could make a killing on family photos alone.

I kid you not when I say we have a picture of me tied up in a chair, surrounded by little sisters in wonder woman underoos. I had volunteered to be the bad guy.

There are guys who would pay good money to do that!

313 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:12:25pm

re: #307 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Suspension of Anti-Gay FL School Teacher Just Like Life In Communist Romania

Grow the fuck up.

and gain some fucking perspective. Sheehs, you’d think a guy who grew up under Nicolae Ceaușescu have this little thing called “perspective.”

314 andres  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:12:51pm

Seems like Cain didn’t left many friends in the NRA.

315 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:13:26pm

re: #296 HappyWarrior

The best part about this is Bozell, Limbaugh, Coult,er etc saying oh liberals just hate a black conservative. Do they remember what some of them said so themselves when Colin Powell endorsed Obama?

Come to think of it, didn’t Condoleeza Rice comment on Cain recently?

316 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:13:39pm

re: #309 EmmmieG

My family could make a killing on family photos alone.

I kid you not when I say we have a picture of me tied up in a chair, surrounded by little sisters in wonder woman underoos. I had volunteered to be the bad guy.

My dad’s brothers always joke his escapades is why my grandfather never became a presidential appointee. Who knows maybe some truth heh.

317 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:13:45pm

More on Herm from Andy Borowitz:

Sex Scandal Might be First Sign Cain is Qualified to Be Politician
Makes Him Seem ‘Presidential,’ Expert Says

MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report) – Herman Cain’s burgeoning sex scandal might actually be the first sign that he is qualified to be a politician.

That is the assessment of presidential historian Davis Logsdon of the University of Minnesota, who believes that news of the sex scandal could convince previously undecided voters that Mr. Cain, a former restaurant executive, is of presidential timbre.

“Voters look at Herman Cain and say, wait a minute, a pizza guy? Does he have what it takes to run for office?” Mr. Logsdon said. “The fact that he is involved in a sex scandal gives him instant credibility.”

“It makes him seem presidential,” he added.

Reports that Mr. Cain may have been involved in fundraising irregularities could also add to his presidential luster, Mr. Logsdon said.

“Voters want to know that their elected leaders have experience mishandling money before they take office,” he said. “When you’re President, there’s no time for on-the-job training.”

Mr. Cain could do other things to reinforce the impression that he has the right stuff to be a politician, “such as lying about his military record,” but ultimately everything hinges on the sex scandal, he said.

“If it turns out there was just one or two women and it all blows over, it may not be a big enough sex scandal to help him,” he said. “But if it emerges that Herman Cain was an obnoxious horndog who’d chase anything in a skirt, he could be the next President of the United States.”

318 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:14:17pm

Just a reminder : we get an extra hour this weekend. Use it wisely.

Fall Back is Sunday in the U.S.

319 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:14:18pm

re: #315 000G

Come to think of it, didn’t Condoleeza Rice comment on Cain recently?

Yeah she told him to stop using the race card, both sides actually. I didn’t agree with her policies but I respect Rice, smart lady.

320 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:14:36pm

re: #318 Thanos

Just a reminder : we get an extra hour this weekend. Use it wisely.

Fall Back is Sunday in the U.S.

Wisely=sleeping.

321 garhighway  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:15:33pm

Well, gotta go. Have a great weekend, everyone.

322 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:15:59pm

re: #319 HappyWarrior

According to a friend of mine, she smells fantastic all the time, even after working 36 hours straight.

323 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:16:50pm

re: #322 Obdicut

According to a friend of mine, she smells fantastic all the time, even after working 36 hours straight.

Yeah you told me about that. I’ve never seen her speak before. I would especially if she was giving a speech on the Cold War which I believe is her expertise. I am a sucker for international relations.

324 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:17:08pm

re: #311 Sergey Romanov

It first dawned on me when I was reading on creationism-evolution issues. “Teach all theories” and all that.

I guess a general tendency towards denial about the “man-made-ness” of many things in this world (“doesnt exist”, “it was [insert deity]”, “natural order of things”) contributes to this, no?

325 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:17:41pm

re: #322 Obdicut

According to a friend of mine, she smells fantastic all the time, even after working 36 hours straight.

That’s…kind of a bizarre statement for someone to make.

326 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:17:54pm

re: #238 Buck

The settlements. Once the women accepted money, they gave up the right to continue to accuse him. It ended, and if you can’t say he is guilty, so…the other choice…

The monetary settlement simply meant that Cain got to keep his job, and the woman, the wronged party in this, got to LOSE her job with some money to tide her over until she could find new employment.

It does NOT mean that the charges are untrue. What would go a long way toward making me believe the charges were untrue would be the results of whatever investigation took place at the time the charges were made - which appears either not to have happened, OR the results were such that Cain and/or the restaurant association didn’t want them publicized.

People do not walk away from jobs on a whim. I’m convinced SOMETHING happened that at the very least made this woman very uncomfortable. And I don’t think she made it up.

327 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:18:33pm

re: #317 garhighway

rofl

love me some Borowitz

328 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:19:23pm

re: #325 Simply Sarah

That’s…kind of a bizarre statement for someone to make.

It’s kind of a bizarre thing in general.

329 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:20:44pm

re: #326 reine.de.tout

People do not walk away from jobs on a whim. I’m convinced SOMETHING happened that at the very least made this woman very uncomfortable. And I don’t think she made it up.

What are you, some kinda commie?

Everyone knows that sexual harassment is just something that libruls made up to keep men from complimenting pretty women. It’s true. Rush said so.

///

330 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:21:00pm

re: #328 Obdicut

It’s kind of a bizarre thing in general.

Well, I generally don’t go around trying to smell other women, so I can’t really comment on that part.

331 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:21:02pm

re: #326 reine.de.tout

AFAIK:
1. Wasn’t a settlement, but an agreement.
2. There was no severance clause.

Might be wrong, though.

332 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:21:02pm

re: #238 Buck

The settlements. Once the women accepted money, they gave up the right to continue to accuse him. It ended, and if you can’t say he is guilty, so…the other choice…

Along with everyone else, I will now chime in.

The money took away their right to sue anyone. They gave up the right to speak publicly by signing the document.

He is guilty or innocent regardless of their accusation. If you were a thief, but I did not say so, that would not make you not a thief. If the table is blue, and I do not say it is blue, it does not become a different color. Truth stands independent of what we want it to be.

333 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:21:44pm

Now here’s a couple of “Diverging Diamond” inter exchanges that I will just stay the hell away from.

[Link: www.modot.org…]

I wonder what genius thought up this way to save pavement and construction time through body bags…. Don’t watch the video, I’ve been through the one in Springfield and even if it doesn’t end up causing more accidents it’s going to cause a few “WTF! That car’s coming at me headon!!11!! heart attacks.

334 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:22:08pm

re: #330 Simply Sarah

Well, I generally don’t go around trying to smell other women, so I can’t really comment on that part.

Heh. I used to work at EA, with a bunch of testers— I was the lead, and I had to have a lot of awkward conversations with them about body odor and hygiene in general.

335 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:22:52pm

re: #334 Obdicut

Heh. I used to work at EA, with a bunch of testers— I was the lead, and I had to have a lot of awkward conversations with them about body odor and hygiene in general.

Heh. I had those moments at a few jobs.

336 Summer Seale  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:23:21pm

Totally OT but, has to be posted:

Triumph the Wonder Dog visits Occupy Wall Street

Warning: He poops on everybody (as usual). =)

Just figured it would make for a funny break. NSFW. =)

337 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:23:52pm

re: #334 Obdicut

Heh. I used to work at EA, with a bunch of testers— I was the lead, and I had to have a lot of awkward conversations with them about body odor and hygiene in general.

It’s one thing if people smell or the like. I guess it’s more that it’s really hard for me to say how people do over the long term, since I’m not in a position to know what they’ve been doing. I mean, for all I know they haven’t showered in a week!

338 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:24:45pm

Heh:

Image: jeditraining.jpg

339 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:25:01pm

re: #331 000G

AFAIK:
1. Wasn’t a settlement, but an agreement.
2. There was no severance clause.

Might be wrong, though.

She AGREED to SETTLE her complaint by walking away from her job with some money.

Seriously, I’m really not into getting into an argument over the terms right now, mmmkay? I’m not a lawyer; this conversation is not a legal proceeding. It is descriptive only.

340 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:25:35pm

re: #337 Simply Sarah

I have a friend who always smells like lilacs, but his name is Danny Rose.

341 HoosierHoops  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:26:09pm

re: #306 Shiplord Kirel

That was I, and I do have a drawl.

I thought that was you..I kindof like the Southern Drawl..I speak with a Cali accent.. You know..Dude…
I tease my new Oklahoma Friends with my fake drawl..
I appreciate ya man! I got that one down
When I first got here every morning people don’t really say good morning..
It’s more like ’ You doing ok?’
It was unsettling for the first month.. The guard at security asking me that.. Why? How do I look? Why are you asking me that?
I find at the coffee machine that greeting opens up a whole new world of daily Southern life..
’ No..I’m not doing ok..My ex stole my dog last night’ and so it goes…
So..You guys and gals doing ok?
Cause I appreciate ya!
/I still haven’t tried Grits yet.. I swear I’m going too
I like the south..It’s pretty cool here

342 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:26:40pm

re: #339 reine.de.tout

She AGREED to SETTLE her complaint by walking away from her job with some money.

But her lawyer said that he believed she worked at the job for a couple more months, no?

343 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:27:25pm

re: #330 Simply Sarah

Well, I generally don’t go around trying to smell other women, so I can’t really comment on that part.

since i’m a dog, smelling people is part of my job description

344 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:27:42pm

re: #342 000G

But her lawyer said that he believed she worked at the job for a couple more months, no?

That was probably while the complaint was working its way through their system.

345 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:28:20pm

re: #342 000G

But her lawyer said that he believed she worked at the job for a couple more months, no?

She may have. And - ?

346 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:29:08pm

re: #344 Obdicut

That was probably while the complaint was working its way through their system.

Thank you.

347 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:29:28pm

re: #322 Obdicut

According to a friend of mine, she smells fantastic all the time, even after working 36 hours straight.

Fragrancenet.com

348 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:29:56pm

News Corp. Journalist Arrested As Hacking Scandal Widens

The News Corp. phone hacking scandal spread to another publication today as police in the U.K. arrested a reporter for the Sun newspaper, the country’s largest circulation daily, on charges of bribing police officers. This latest development is a major blow to News Corp., which has maintained that illegal activity was restricted to the now-defunct News of the World. Meanwhile, police announced today that they believe almost 5,800 people were targeted in the company’s phone hacking operations — 2,000 more than originally thought.

349 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:30:32pm

re: #346 reine.de.tout

You’re welcome. It feels kind of old-fashioned on my part, but the fact that she was married at the time makes this bug me even more. I don’t think that someone being unmarried gives one license to jump all over them, but I do think that if you know someone is married that you need to guard even more against giving the wrong impression.

350 General Fujita  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:30:40pm

off-topic

New here!

My first contribution shall come in the form of a report from the Land of DERP, where apparently a spell-checker is something that still sits on the wish list:

Change! Iranian Regime Calls on UN to Prosecute US Officials For Promoting Terorism

(thegatewaypundit.com/2011/11/change-iranian-regime-calls-on-un-to-prosecute-administration-officials-for/#comments)

How the heck does that go unnoticed? Or don’t they care?

351 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:31:01pm

I Told My Kids I Ate All Their Halloween Candy

Youtube Video
352 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:31:05pm

Evening Honcos.

353 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:31:28pm

re: #330 Simply Sarah

Well, I generally don’t go around trying to smell other women, so I can’t really comment on that part.

We had a guy who kept saying how nice the ladies hair smelled, but he was a midget.

354 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:31:41pm

re: #344 Obdicut

That was probably while the complaint was working its way through their system.

I swear I came across the points I mentioned in #331 somewhere. Enh. News stories are a swamp now. Can’t find it.

355 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:32:27pm

re: #354 000G

I’m not sure what the difference between an agreement and settlement is, but your’e right that it wasn’t a severance package.

356 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:32:34pm

I smell something.

357 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:33:11pm

re: #356 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I smell something.

What a coincidence!

358 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:33:30pm

re: #355 Obdicut

Most news stories I tried to query mention a “settlement agreement”, so I might very well have been mistaken on this.

359 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:34:04pm

I work all day and come home to this?
///

360 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:34:10pm

re: #357 Varek Raith

What a coincidence!

Youtube Video
361 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:34:15pm

re: #350 General Fujita

They’re not very professional over there.

362 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:35:34pm

re: #356 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I smell something.

Christians?

363 HoosierHoops  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:35:40pm

re: #350 General Fujita

Welcome…Good first post.. Tell us something about yourself General

364 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:36:32pm

I had to do some errands, and some work, and a test ride, and I come back to find another opportunity to downding Buck!

*whistles as she goes back to work*

365 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:36:37pm

re: #362 Sergey Romanov

Christians?

Stinky?

366 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:37:34pm

Oh Michelle, we will miss you.

“You see, there’s a reason our Founding Fathers decided to establish our political capital in a different city than our financial capital. It’s time for us to reaffirm the wisdom of that decision by getting Washington D.C. out of free markets. I’m running for president because I understand the difference between free markets and Bernie Madoff style government.

367 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:38:46pm

re: #356 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I smell something.

Well we do have a rapidly ripening troll amongst us, he smells way overdue for the BBQ already…

368 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:39:01pm

re: #366 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh Michelle, we will miss you.

Image: 41574_238377495381_6945649_n.jpg

369 erik_t  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:39:26pm

re: #366 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bernie Madoff style government being, um, the one where unchecked capitalism is exploited by sociopathic CEOs in order to fuck over the little man to make another buck?

I don’t like that kind of government either, Crazy-Eyes. We may have different ideas on how to prevent it.

370 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:39:53pm

re: #368 Varek Raith

Image: 41574_238377495381_6945649_n.jpg

Image: 008add91-25ee-49d9-8723-bbc8a66ba102.jpg

371 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:40:01pm

re: #350 General Fujita

off-topic

New here!

My first contribution shall come in the form of a report from the Land of DERP, where apparently a spell-checker is something that still sits on the wish list:

Change! Iranian Regime Calls on UN to Prosecute US Officials For Promoting Terorism

(thegatewaypundit.com/2011/11/change-iranian-regime-calls-on-un-to-prosecute-administration-officials-for/#comments)

How the heck does that go unnoticed? Or don’t they care?

and here i’ve spent so much of my life fighting the tourists

372 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:40:21pm

re: #359 Cannadian Club Akbar

I work all day and come home to this?
///

Sorry honey, I was busy…err…with phone solicitors and Canadian trolls…

373 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:40:53pm

re: #371 engineer dog

and here i’ve spent so much of my life fighting the tourists

Tourists? I thought terriers were the culprits.

374 sagehen  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:43:03pm

re: #272 HoosierHoops

Nope..He’s not even close.. I think the record for downdings is around 400 by Annefrance…She also posted from Canada..But Buck is Amateur hour historically
/Buck up Buck

But she turned out to be right… it just took a while for the evidence to be undeniable.

375 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:43:13pm

re: #373 Sergey Romanov

Tourists? I thought terriers were the culprits.

Another name for tourists in Florida, “Tourons”.

(it doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out)

376 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:43:40pm

re: #349 Obdicut

You’re welcome. It feels kind of old-fashioned on my part, but the fact that she was married at the time makes this bug me even more. I don’t think that someone being unmarried gives one license to jump all over them, but I do think that if you know someone is married that you need to guard even more against giving the wrong impression.

Obdi - there are plenty of men to whom that makes no difference at all.

I really detest men who throw their weight around and try to intimidate their female employees. And then it’s the woman who loses her job, or gets transferred elsewhere - whatever happens, it’s the woman’s life that gets disrupted, more often than not.

377 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:43:48pm

re: #369 erik_t

Bernie Madoff style government being, um, the one where unchecked capitalism is exploited by sociopathic CEOs in order to fuck over the little man to make another buck?

I don’t like that kind of government either, Crazy-Eyes. We may have different ideas on how to prevent it.

I was referring to her reasoning on why Washington was chosen as the capital. It had nothing to do with free markets.

378 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:44:32pm

re: #19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There’s a Dr. Koch locally, it’s pronounced “Cook”.

re: #49 publicityStunted

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

According to this site that offers native German pronunication of said word, “cock” is indeed the closest English equivalent (click the little blue triangle icon to hear the audio - sounds a lot more like “cock” than “cook” or “coke”)

There’s a Dr Koch I know, who also pronounces it ‘Cook’. As it happens, his first name is Mike. He also happens to be one of the best and most well known urologists in the country.

Now, if it were me, and I was one of the world’s foremost surgeons who just happened to deal with the penis, with all the attendant prestige and gravitas, and my name also happened to be easily pronounceable as ‘my cock’, I would totally own it. And I’d look people in the eye and dare them to laugh as they said it.

379 sagehen  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:44:32pm

re: #273 Lidane

Actually, it was a HUGE favor for the Democrats. The birther shit exposed the racist, ignorant elements in both parties, but primarily in the GOP, who will never accept a black POTUS.

Also, those same bigots? They won’t accept a black Republican POTUS either. Just so you know.

They would’ve if it was Colin Powell or Condaleeza Rice (at least until Powell endorsed Obama… that entirely invalidated his every view on every topic).

380 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:44:35pm

re: #375 ausador

Another name for tourists in Florida, “Tourons”.

(it doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out)

Sorry, don’t get it. I must be a moron. :(

hey waitaminute


///

381 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:45:26pm

re: #378 Renaissance_Man

I know a Richard D’Angle.

382 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:45:41pm

re: #380 Sergey Romanov

Sorry, don’t get it. I must be a moron. :(

hey waitaminute

///

Please tell me you’re not in Florida.
//

383 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:47:23pm

re: #382 Cannadian Club Akbar

Please tell me you’re not in Florida.
//

He’s in Becki-Becki-Becki-Becki-Stan.

384 erik_t  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:47:57pm

re: #377 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
It’s just the phrase ‘Madoff government’ that really throws me for a damned loop.

To be clear, I’m sure your eyes are entirely rational and sober.

385 HoosierHoops  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:49:46pm

re: #374 sagehen

But she turned out to be right… it just took a while for the evidence to be undeniable.

I really can’t recall much of the post or her POV..She may have been progressive in her post…But I do remember this…She pretended to be a concerned American and when it was revealed she was a nurse in Canada the downdings came down like rain..

386 recusancy  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:50:45pm

Global CO2 emissions rising faster than worst-case scenarios

387 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:50:58pm

re: #383 Varek Raith

He’s in Becki-Becki-Becki-Becki-Stan.

That’s classified information. How do you know?

*adds Varek to The KGB List*

388 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:51:39pm

re: #387 Sergey Romanov

That’s classified information. How do you know?

*adds Varek to The KGB List*

Ha!
I’m already on that list!
Sucker!
:P

389 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:52:52pm

re: #388 Varek Raith

Ha!
I’m already on that list!
Sucker!
:P

Maybe. But Sergey has one of those umbrellas with the poison tip.
/

390 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:52:59pm

re: #388 Varek Raith

Ha!
I’m already on that list!
Sucker!
:P

You’re so nice you’re now there twice.

391 sagehen  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:54:17pm

re: #348 Varek Raith

News Corp. Journalist Arrested As Hacking Scandal Widens

Please, O Lord, let Roger Ailes be implicated as the investigation widens. If evidence is uncovered of something that costs Fox News their license, I promise I’ll never eat bacon again. Amen.

392 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:54:58pm

re: #391 sagehen

Now that’s just silly!//

393 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:55:51pm

Charles Pierce gets it.

These women are not staying anonymous because they’re afraid that they’ll be sued. They’re staying anonymous because they don’t want to be destroyed in public by the wolverines of the lunatic Right. Put out their names, and they’re everybody’s Blue Plate Special on Fox News and all over your AM radio dial for the next two years, and that’s not even to mention the fact that there are some seriously unbalanced people out there who might decide to take this all very, very personally.

Simon also said, “Nobody wants to be Anita Hill.” Well, nobody sued Anita Hill, either. But her character and reputation were trashed for the better part of two weeks by members of Congress. Her name was still being slandered by various spavined harpies last week in connection with this scandal, more than 20 years later. Good god, you’d have to be crazy to subject yourself to that.

394 recusancy  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:58:41pm

If Mitt Romney becomes president, pray to god you’re rich. [Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

395 sagehen  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:58:47pm

re: #381 Obdicut

I know a Richard D’Angle.

I went to school with a guy named Brook Trout. When I saw him at the reunion, his child’s nametag identified her as Rainbow.

396 sagehen  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:00:46pm

re: #385 HoosierHoops

I really can’t recall much of the post or her POV..She may have been progressive in her post…But I do remember this…She pretended to be a concerned American and when it was revealed she was a nurse in Canada the downdings came down like rain..

It was an anti-Palin screed, before everybody realized how stunningly unqualified Sarah was.

397 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:00:46pm

re: #381 Obdicut

I know a Richard D’Angle.

There is a guy in our local phonebook named Delicious Peters, and he’sthe 3rd.

398 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:02:26pm

re: #375 ausador

Another name for tourists in Florida, “Tourons”.

(it doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out)

A name for people from NYC or the Capital District in Upstate NY is “cityots”, but I am sure that finds application in other parts of the country as well.

399 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:04:53pm

re: #397 reine.de.tout

There is a guy in our local phonebook named Delicious Peters, and he’sthe 3rd.

I went to school with two twin brothers named Andrew and Peter Ness.

We never did roll call aloud.

400 Ming  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:05:20pm

I hope you all don’t mind an off-topic post. I just saw this:

MSNBC Video

“One of New York City’s oldest Jewish bakeries has been rescued from closure by an unlikely source: a pair of Muslim cab drivers who promise to keep it kosher…”

Seems like such a nice story about Muslims (from Pakistan!) and Jews coexisting in harmony, and even love. As I was charmed by reading the story, it occurs to me that this is exactly the kind of story that would rabidly enrage certain deranged hateful types, like Pamela Gellar.

401 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:08:06pm

re: #395 sagehen

I went to school with a guy named Brook Trout. When I saw him at the reunion, his child’s nametag identified her as Rainbow.

i once went to lunch at a fancy private club in nyc with a portrait of this gentlemen on the paneled walls

Preserved Fish (1766–1846) was a prominent New York City shipping merchant[1] in the early 19th century. He served as president of the Bank of America, which was unrelated to the current institution of that name, and an early broker of the New York Stock & Exchange Board.[2] He was one of the leaders in the movement opposed to sabbatarianism in the United States.

His first name was properly pronounced with three syllables (“pre-SER-vedd”), and was a reference to being “preserved from sin” or “preserved in grace”. His family, prominent in New York, also gave rise to Hamilton Fish, governor, senator, and secretary of state, and Stuyvesant Fish

402 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:08:24pm

re: #49 publicityStunted

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

According to this site that offers native German pronunication of said word, “cock” is indeed the closest English equivalent (click the little blue triangle icon to hear the audio - sounds a lot more like “cock” than “cook” or “coke”)

The problem is that modern English does not know the voiceless velar fricative.

403 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:08:54pm

re: #400 Ming

And would not be surprising to those who know of the underlying harmony and concord (such as can only exist between feuding family members, which is what we and the Muslims are, at our best) between our peoples. Many a fine meal have I had from halal establishments, when kosher joints were inaccessible, and my former dinner companion - Nargis, ah! sweet Nargis! - loved her some old-school deli.

404 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:09:37pm

re: #400 Ming

Creeping Sharia Bagels!!


That is a nice story, honestly.

405 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:09:48pm

re: #402 000G

They even pronounce Lech as “lek”. Bastards!!!///

406 justaminute  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:10:52pm

Of course the NRA is going to step lightly and handle the matter in an unbiased way. They are the ones that distribute all that info to Restaurants. We also receive it from the Feds and the State. It has to be posted somewhere that is available to all employees. We post that info in the employee break room. I believe that’s the law.

Sexual harassment can happen in any workplace setting.

407 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:11:23pm

re: #398 000G

A name for people from NYC or the Capital District in Upstate NY is “cityots”, but I am sure that finds application in other parts of the country as well.

“yer onna them fellers from th’ city that talks too much, ain’tcha”

408 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:13:36pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I literally heard a nearly-comatose conservative radio host mention bill ayers and Obama in the same breath as the Cain allegations on my way to the post office to mail some art

He also, very gravely and with great seriousness, talked at length about how George HW Bush was a great athlete and Obama “throws like a girl”


I feel for the alzheimers patients who think this is good radio

409 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:13:44pm

This looks safe…
Check Out the 16-Prop, All-Electric ‘Multicopter’ Make Its First Manned Liftoff!

Liveleak Video
410 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:13:58pm

Oh, and for those lizards who contributed to the ransom fund, my captors determined that they’d be better off paying me to go away. So, check’s in the mail, I swear.

411 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:14:13pm

re: #406 justaminute

I always posted the sexual harassment poster under the desk. Wait, what?
///

412 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:16:49pm

Hmmm, another likelak video won’t embed.
Let’s try youtube.
World’s first manned flight with an electric multicopter

Youtube Video
413 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:17:40pm

re: #356 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I smell something.

I’m getting a whiff of something too.

414 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:18:02pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Yay! Hatredcopter!

415 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:18:16pm

So, what with one thing and another - working six and more days a week at work, with 12 + hour shifts - I have rather been out of the loop. What’s new by the folk here? See some names I don’t sass.

Rye and ginger, tonight. Bulleit makes probably the best damned rye whiskey I’ve ever had, Sazerac excluded, of course.

416 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:18:55pm

Could be related to this:

Youtube Video
417 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:18:56pm

re: #414 Sergey Romanov

Yay! Hatredcopter!

That song was so good live :D I have no idea how Hoglan does it *_*

418 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:19:47pm

re: #414 Sergey Romanov

Yay! Hatredcopter!

I don’t get the physics at work but it seems to me it would be more stable if the pilot was below the platform instead of on top of it.

419 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:20:54pm

re: #416 Charles

Aha…

420 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:21:22pm

re: #418 Killgore Trout

I don’t get the physics at work but it seems to me it would be more stable if the pilot was below the platform instead of on top of it.

Not sure about physics, but from a safety standpoint, the pilot would be safer still at least two counties over.

421 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:23:31pm

re: #416 Charles

Could be related to this:

[Video]

Looks like someone smuggled a camera into my annual employee performance review.

422 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:24:43pm

re: #407 engineer dog

“yer onna them fellers from th’ city that talks too much, ain’tcha”

Or builds their new mansion on a breathtakingly beautiful yet precariously dangerous slope….

423 justaminute  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:25:18pm

For those that are trying to take Cain’s side they have to justify that two possibly three women in the space of three years picked Herman Cain as their target to file these complaints against. Is he the only male that worked there? You can file harassment complaints against co-workers if you notify management and they do nothing to stop the situation. Then they can be held liable for damages. Make me wonder if they think Herman’s pic was up in the woman’s bathroom with a large dollar sign over his pic.

424 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:27:37pm

re: #395 sagehen

I went to school with a guy named Brook Trout. When I saw him at the reunion, his child’s nametag identified her as Rainbow.

At my first High School, one of the students was named Hugh Dick. As if that weren’t bad enough, on of the teachers joked that Hugh’s mother was named Anita!

Of course, I had to chime in with his Fathers name….Grizzly….

Nobody got any learning done for the rest of the day.

425 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:29:59pm

re: #424 Surabaya Stew

At my first High School, one of the students was named Hugh Dick. As if that weren’t bad enough, on of the teachers joked that Hugh’s mother was named Anita!

Of course, I had to chime in with his Fathers name…Grizzly…

Nobody got any learning done for the rest of the day.

Once conned a coworker into calling an internal extension to return a message from a “Hugh Jasso” (this is texas, and we non-Tex-Mex, because the texicans won the war, pronounce Spanish the way it’s spelled in English). She couldn’t figure out why the fellow on the other end just burst into laughter when she asked to speak to “Mr. Hugh Jasso”.

426 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:31:56pm

Philip McRevis, please pick up the white courtesy phone

427 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:32:40pm

#Occupy Drive through bank tube!!!

Heh.

428 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:34:34pm

What corporate influence in government the Right wing asks?

“Just so I can clarify this for the media, this may be a breaking news announcement for the media: I am the Koch brothers’ brother from another mother,” Cain said during a speech at the Americans for Prosperity gathering in Washington, D.C. “Yes. I’m their brother from another mother! And proud of it!”

Cain said: “I’m proud to know the Koch brothers.” He said a recent New York Times article made it sound like “we’ve had time to go fishing together, hunting together, skiiing together.”

Cain went on to say that the brothers had promised to buy him a private Island in the Caribbean and stock it strippers and a beer volcano after he retired from the presidency. “Why it will be just like the Spaghetti Monster paradise,” Cain gushed, before adding “Not that I believe in any of that mind you!”

Cain was rather inexact about the details of his discussions with the Koch brothers but did say that they involved his continuing to deny climate change and a promise to ruthlessly crush alternatively fueled cars, and hybrid vehicles. “Of course denial of government subsidies, tax incentives, loan guarantees, or grants for research are something else I’m not allowed to offer them,” Cain stated “but I do have to make sure the the major oil companies do continue to get those same benefits.”

When asked if felt that he was betraying his followers by putting two brothers corporate profits ahead of his constituents paychecks Cain had this to add. “Hey man didn’t you hear me I get to go Fishing, hunting, and Skiing with motherfucking billionaires! Not Millionaires, Billionaires with a effing B! You know the kind of groupie pussy hangs around billionaires? Well let me tell you they do a hummer like no other!”

Unfortunately the Koch security separated us at that point and the interview concluded abruptly…

///

(Please note that everything below the blockquote is entirely a work of fiction, yeah it may sound right, but Herman Cain never said any of it to the best of my knowledge. ;))

429 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:34:45pm

re: #425 Guanxi88

How’d she feel about that?

430 Spocomptonite  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:43:28pm

re: #397 reine.de.tout

There is a guy in our local phonebook named Delicious Peters, and he’sthe 3rd.

The previous place I lived, there was an Escamillo Thunderbunny in the phone book. It’s not an entendre, but seriously best last name ever.

431 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:45:31pm

re: #422 000G

Hey, 000G: A while back you posted a couple of links that were all about reason/logic debating, etc. They were like huge lists & charts. Do you know what I’m referring to? If you do and you still have them handy, I’d appreciate it if you could repost them. I neglected to bookmark them at the time, and I’d very much like to have them for reference.

432 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:46:49pm

re: #429 Obdicut

How’d she feel about that?

She snarfed coffee, as it was a great jest.

433 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:24:19pm

re: #136 Buck

Would any of you be willing to give as much credence to the report that the Obama administration has been accused of creating a ‘hostile environment for females that treats women like meat’?

That is a description of sexual harassment, but without any actual evidence, or some person to come forward with more than anonymous sources and unverifiable statements…

Well, I didn’t give that any more credence than the Herman Cain rumours and allegations.

Buck, I love you like a second cousin, but…don’t even try.

434 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:47:32pm

re: #277 HappyWarrior

I don’t know about you but I love that they think the left is behind this. Hilarious.

Look for motive in this sort of thing.

Not that the Democrats wouldn’t have used it, if they’d needed to—but I don’t think they ever needed to. Who might need to?

435 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:51:21pm

re: #434 SanFranciscoZionist

Look for motive in this sort of thing.

Not that the Democrats wouldn’t have used it, if they’d needed to—but I don’t think they ever needed to. Who might need to?

Two words: Rick Perry

436 sagehen  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:58:20pm

re: #427 Cannadian Club Akbar

#Occupy Drive through bank tube!!!

Heh.

better than

Occupy Sunnydale

437 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:52:11pm

Cain did not sign settlement, accuser’s lawyer says

The settlement agreement between the National Restaurant Association and a woman who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment was reached in September 1999—and was not signed by Cain himself, according to Joel Bennett, a lawyer for the woman.

Bennett, who has a copy of the settlement agreement, said four people signed it: the woman, two lawyers representing the association and Bennett himself.

Bennett said the agreement was resolved relatively quickly, about two or three months after she complained.

That means it may have been reached after Cain left the association, and Bennett said it’s conceivable that Cain didn’t even know about it.

438 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:58:00pm

re: #437 Buck

#134, #149.

439 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:03:10pm

Settlement Was Dated… 9/99

440 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:04:05pm

re: #439 Buck

#257.

441 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:15:11pm

re: #437 Buck

Didn’t know about the settlement? Possibly.

Didn’t know about the accusation?

Amazingly unlikely.

And given that he talked about the amount of the settlement, why on earth are you speculating that he didn’t know about it?

442 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:17:46pm

re: #437 Buck

That the organization settled does not mean Cain wasn’t a participant. It means that once he was out of the way the settlement occurred.

It raises in my mind the question of why Cain resigned. (His bio says his term of office ended. However, the 3 year term of office in the NRA is for the board. The CEO and President have no such limit.) He had three sexual harassment complaints and left all within about a year to year and a half — to spend “time at home with his family.”

443 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:23:31pm

He didn’t have three sexual harassment complaints. the third anonymous woman is bringing her complaint only now. She says she didn’t complain at the time.

why on earth are you speculating that he didn’t know about it?

I am NOT speculating that he didn’t know about it. Why are you lying? The attorney for this woman is saying that it is possible that he didn’t.

Didn’t know about the accusation?
Amazingly unlikely.

Cain has always said that he knew he was accused. He said the accusations were baseless.

444 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:25:18pm

re: #443 Buck

Cain has always said that he knew he was accused. He said the accusations were baseless.

Actually, Cain said the allegations were investigated and found to be baseless … an outright lie. There was no investigation. He paid off his victim before it got to that point.

445 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:27:22pm

re: #443 Buck

Cain has always said that he knew he was accused. He said the accusations were baseless.

Actually, he claimed there was an investigation that showed the claims to be baseless.

[Link: www.aol.com…]

Which was a lie.

But you’re right: what he claimed was that he had no knowledge of payments. Then he almost immediately claimed the payments were a few months salary. So, another lie.

446 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:51:28pm

re: #443 Buck

He didn’t have three sexual harassment complaints. the third anonymous woman is bringing her complaint only now. She says she didn’t complain at the time.

I am NOT speculating that he didn’t know about it. Why are you lying? The attorney for this woman is saying that it is possible that he didn’t.

Cain has always said that he knew he was accused. He said the accusations were baseless.

hmmm. ok, let’s run it. He had two sexual harassment complaints, and resigned his position before they were resolved. Not because he had something waiting for him, either. He just resigned. Now we discover there was at least one more case that could have come forward if he’d stayed.

447 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:00:36pm

re: #446 kirkspencer

resigned his position before they were resolved

You are making that up.

448 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:04:42pm

re: #445 Obdicut

Which was a lie.

Actually you are making that up. How do you know that the claims were not baseless? So far we don’t know the details of the investigation.

AND perhaps when he said he had no knowledge of payments. He might have meant that he didn’t know the exact amount, or at the time that he said it it didn’t know. I would have to have the exact quote, as you are usually just adding your spin.

449 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:07:08pm

re: #444 Charles

Actually, Cain said the allegations were investigated and found to be baseless … an outright lie. There was no investigation. He paid off his victim before it got to that point.

And how do you know that? Who said that there was no investigation?

450 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:15:54pm

re: #447 Buck

You are making that up.

Nope. See your OWN FRIGGING POSTre: #437 Buck.

If the settlement was reached after he left, then he left (resigned) before the case was resolved.

And yes, he resigned. He says he left because his term was up. But if you go to the NRA website you’ll discover that most CEOs, to include the present one, were in the position for longer than 3 years. Further you’ll discover that the 3 year rule applies to the board (and chairman of the board) subject to renewals of 3 year terms. Cain was President and CEO, not chairman of the board of directors.

So nope. The only “making it up” is my speculation (identified as such) that the sexual harassment cases directly contributed to him leaving the NRA.

451 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:16:51pm

re: #448 Buck

Actually you are making that up. How do you know that the claims were not baseless? So far we don’t know the details of the investigation.

A) You can’t simultaenously claim that Cain wasn’t around for the end of the process on and therefore had no knowledge of the money paid, and that he knew the result of an ‘investigation’ whose end was a payout but that somehow found him blameless.

B) The result was that a settlement was made that acknowledged no fault, but it certainly didn’t find the accusations baseless. If they had, they would have fought it in court. There is no company on earth that determines claims to be baseless and then pays up anyway; they’d go broke overnight.

AND perhaps when he said he had no knowledge of payments. He might have meant that he didn’t know the exact amount, or at the time that he said it it didn’t know. I would have to have the exact quote, as you are usually just adding your spin.

I linked it in the video above. But here you go:

[Link: www.politico.com…]

“I was aware that an agreement was reached. The word ‘settlement’ versus the word ‘agreement’ you know, I’m not sure what they called it. I know that there was some sort of agreement, but because it ended up being minimal, they didn’t have to bring it to me. My general counsel and the head of human resources had the authority to resolve this thing,” Cain said.

And then:

“My general counsel said this started out where she and her lawyer were demanding a huge financial settlement,” Cain said, according to the Examiner. He told Van Susteren his accuser was given “maybe three months’ salary. I don’t remember. It might have been two months. I do remember my general counsel saying we didn’t pay all of the money they demanded.”

So he knew it existed, but didn’t know how much it was, but he knew it wasn’t as much as they were asking— which was ‘huge’— and he thinks it was three or two months.

Yeah, I’m ‘spinning’.

452 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:18:06pm

re: #450 kirkspencer

Nope. See your OWN FRIGGING POSTre: #437 Buck.

If the settlement was reached after he left, then he left (resigned) before the case was resolved.

He didn’t resign. No one is using that word. You are making that up. He didn’t quit, and he wasn’t fired.

His term was up, just like he said. Other than you making stuff up, that is all we KNOW.

453 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:20:49pm

re: #452 Buck

He didn’t resign. No one is using that word. You are making that up. He didn’t quit, and he wasn’t fired.

His term was up, just like he said. Other than you making stuff up, that is all we KNOW.

Let me put this in small words.

There is no term limit for the CEO position at the National Restaurant Association. His term could not be up because he did not have a term.

When he says his term was up, he is lying.

454 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:23:14pm

re: #451 Obdicut

You can’t simultaenously claim that Cain wasn’t around for the end of the process on and therefore had no knowledge of the money paid, and that he knew the result of an ‘investigation’ whose end was a payout but that somehow found him blameless.

Sure he can. They informed him of the results of the investigation, but not the details of the agreement. The lawyer today said “it’s conceivable that Cain didn’t even know about it.”

B) The result was that a settlement was made that acknowledged no fault, but it certainly didn’t find the accusations baseless. If they had, they would have fought it in court. There is no company on earth that determines claims to be baseless and then pays up anyway; they’d go broke overnight.

Sometimes the payment is less money than the cost of going to court. Also sometimes insurance takes over and tries to save money. Your statement that “There is no company on earth that determines claims to be baseless and then pays up anyway; ” is a lie.

455 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:25:45pm

re: #453 kirkspencer

Let me put this in small words.

There is no term limit for the CEO position at the National Restaurant Association. His term could not be up because he did not have a term.

When he says his term was up, he is lying.

So you say. How long have you been working for the NRA? And why are so so sure of their policies from 15 years ago?

Oh? You read it on the internet? And you are not absolutely sure of the boardroom policies, or even if there might have been an agreement in advance of his term starting.

In small words…. You don’t KNOW shit.

456 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:29:01pm

re: #454 Buck

Sure he can. They informed him of the results of the investigation, but not the details of the agreement. The lawyer today said “it’s conceivable that Cain didn’t even know about it.”

It’s concievable, but not according to Cain, who has said that he knew it was only ‘two or three months salary’, and not the ‘huge’ payout she was attempting.

Is there some reason you think Cain is lying when he said that? I mean, aside from the fact that it contradicts other things he said, so he must be lying at some point?

Sometimes the payment is less money than the cost of going to court. Also sometimes insurance takes over and tries to save money. Your statement that “There is no company on earth that determines claims to be baseless and then pays up anyway; ” is a lie.

No, it’s not, Buck. A company may determine that the claim may or may not be true but they might lose in court. But if they determine it’s baseless, that’s something they’d be confident about defending in court. Courts aren’t places where the word of ‘victims’ are automatically taken.

Companies settle all the time cases that are grey areas. They do not settle claims they know are baseless.

457 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:31:01pm

re: #456 Obdicut

Companies settle all the time cases that are grey areas. They do not settle claims they know are baseless.

Again, not true. I have worked for companies that have settled claims (Patent) that they knew were baseless. It was cheaper than going to court by millions of dollars.

458 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:35:19pm

Your statement:

“There is no company on earth that determines claims to be baseless and then pays up anyway; “


Even though the claims may be baseless or tenuous at best, the cost of fighting often far outweighs the settlement demands

459 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:35:29pm

re: #457 Buck

Again, not true. I have worked for companies that have settled claims (Patent) that they knew were baseless. It was cheaper than going to court by millions of dollars.

Okay, Buck. Let me be clear.

A company will not settle a sexual harassment claim that they know to be baseless rather than go to court. Especially not when it involves a CEO and leaves him with the shadow of potential guilt hanging over him.

This has zero similarity to settling a patent dispute.

And you know that.

460 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:38:24pm

re: #459 Obdicut

Okay, Buck. Let me be clear.

A company will not settle a sexual harassment claim that they know to be baseless rather than go to court. Especially not when it involves a CEO and leaves him with the shadow of potential guilt hanging over him.

This has zero similarity to settling a patent dispute.

And you know that.

Again, not true.

Companies will often acquiesce to the settlement demands even if they feel that the case has no merit. That is specifically why they insert the “No admission of guilt” and the “confidentiality clause”.

461 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:43:03pm

re: #460 Buck

Again, not true.

Companies will often acquiesce to the settlement demands even if they feel that the case has no merit. That is specifically why they insert the “No admission of guilt” and the “confidentiality clause”.

If you’re simply going to keep asserting “Yeah-huh”, then you needn’t bother. The reason those clauses are there are so that, as I said, in the cases where the claim might or might not be proveably true they don’t have to admit guilt. Or even in cases where they find that yes, it did indeed happen, so that they can avoid any more repercussions of that through the settlement. So, they may settle when there really is guilt and they’re aware of it.

Can you explain why Cain said he was “unaware of any settlement” and then said that he was aware of a settlement?

462 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:47:37pm

re: #461 Obdicut

Can you explain why Cain said he was “unaware of any settlement” and then said that he was aware of a settlement?

He says he is differentiating between what he understood was an agreement versus a settlement.

Your statement that “There is no company on earth that determines claims to be baseless and then pays up anyway; ” was a lie.

463 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:50:52pm

re: #462 Buck

He says he is differentiating between what he understood was an agreement versus a settlement.

No, Buck.

In an appearance at the National Press Club, Cain acknowledged that he had been accused of harassment, but said he’d been “falsely accused” and was “unaware of any settlement.”

And:

“If the restaurant association did a settlement, I wasn’t even aware of it and I hope it wasn’t for much,” Cain said. “If there was a settlement, it was handled by some of the other officers at the restaurant association.”

And then:

“My general counsel said this started out where she and her lawyer were demanding a huge financial settlement,” Cain said, according to the Examiner. He told Van Susteren his accuser was given “maybe three months’ salary. I don’t remember. It might have been two months. I do remember my general counsel saying we didn’t pay all of the money they demanded.”

He said he wasn’t aware of it, and then said that he’d talked with the general counsel about the settlement. That’s a contradiction.

Your statement that “There is no company on earth that determines claims to be baseless and then pays up anyway; ” was a lie.

Then name a company that has done so.

464 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:51:59pm

re: #455 Buck

So you say. How long have you been working for the NRA? And why are so so sure of their policies from 15 years ago?

Oh? You read it on the internet? And you are not absolutely sure of the boardroom policies, or even if there might have been an agreement in advance of his term starting.

In small words… You don’t KNOW shit.

The current president/CEO of the NRA is Dawn Sweeney. She took office in 2007 and still holds it. That’s four years and counting.

She replaced Steven C. Anderson, who replaced Herman Cain in 1999. 1999 to 2007 is eight years. Eight is not a multiple of three. Eight is also larger than three.

Now let’s have some more fun. Herman Cain took the position of CEO for the NRA in December of 1996. (Mount Airy News) He was out of the position in September of 1999 — LESS than three years. (You have to pay to read the full article to find his name, but the online link if you want to get there is here.)

Interestingly and amusingly, the NYT spoke of Mr. Cain in August of 1999, in a fluff piece. No mention of his impending departure was made then. Sometime between August 1 and September 13, he became the “past” president of the “nice NRA”.

Tell you what. Your turn. Find something besides Cain’s word that he had an agreement to leave after 2 2/3 years, to make it an “end of term”.

465 Beltboy  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:53:29pm

None of the women are coming forward.
This is just lawyers talking back and forth.
Cain’s numbers have been going up because the people are recognizing this not as news but as a hit job from Politico.

466 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:56:18pm

re: #464 kirkspencer

Sometimes the term is agreed upon in advance. You can’t make something up and then say “Find something besides the facts that what I just made up is not true”. You don’t know his exact start date, and you don’t know what the board discussed, or agreed to.

No one, who would know, is saying he left under any cloud.

In small words, you are guessing.

467 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:08:11pm

re: #463 Obdicut

There was a time between the two statements. One at the National Press Club, and the other to Van Susteren. In the time between he might have been told new information.

I posted a link that said that “Even though the claims may be baseless or tenuous at best, the cost of fighting often far outweighs the settlement demands” and there was mention of how this does happen. Your statement that it doesn’t is a lie.

468 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:12:46pm

That’s your defense? “You don’t know, it might be that he had an agreement.”? Because sometimes these things are done? My facts aren’t facts because they aren’t?

ooookay.

469 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:17:45pm

re: #467 Buck

No, Buck. He didn’t claim this contact was recent, but at the time of the incidents. Sorry.

470 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:21:24pm

re: #468 kirkspencer

That’s your defense? “You don’t know, it might be that he had an agreement.”? Because sometimes these things are done? My facts aren’t facts because they aren’t?

oookay.

Right. You admit you are are guessing. That there is no one, who was there. saying that he resigned. In fact the people who were there are all saying things like the former head of human resources at the association, Mary Ose, who “When pressed, said she never heard any hint of a problem with Cain and female association employees. ‘No, none,’ she said.”

Again, in small words, you are guessing. Which is right next to making it up.

471 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:27:51pm

re: #469 Obdicut

No, Buck. He didn’t claim this contact was recent, but at the time of the incidents. Sorry.

Show me.

472 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:34:49pm

re: #471 Buck

…But then he said because there was no basis for this, we ended up settling for what would have been a termination settlement.” When van Susteren asked how much money was involved, Cain said: “Maybe three months’ salary. I don’t remember. It might have been two months. I do remember my general counsel saying we didn’t pay all of the money they demanded.”

He’d hardly have to remember something said earlier that day, would he?

473 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:35:05pm

re: #469 Obdicut

No, Buck. He didn’t claim this contact was recent, but at the time of the incidents. Sorry.

More specifically where he uses the word settlement to describe what he knew happened. Or like I said, he says he know only of an agreement. Backed up by the lawyer today who said Cain may not have known the details.

474 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:36:18pm

re: #472 Obdicut

He’d hardly have to remember something said earlier that day, would he?

Maybe…but a termination settlement might have been ???? that she was fired…. terminated…

475 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:36:54pm

re: #473 Buck

More specifically where he uses the word settlement to describe what he knew happened. Or like I said, he says he know only of an agreement. Backed up by the lawyer today who said Cain may not have known the details.

Um, I already did that.


But are you now alleging that Cain is lying and claiming that this was an agreement rather than a settlement?

476 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:38:36pm

re: #475 Obdicut

Um, I already did that.

But are you now alleging that Cain is lying and claiming that this was an agreement rather than a settlement?

termination settlement, is not the same as a sexual harassment settlement. Or do you only believe him when you hear what you want to hear.

477 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:40:10pm

re: #151 aagcobb

This story breaking now is a favor to the GOP, Buck. It gives you a chance to see if Cain is a credible presidential candidate before its too late. If he can’t handle this, you still have time to rally to Perry or some other alternative to Romney.

I hope conservatives like Buck are forced to pull the level for either Obama or Cain. /Schadenfreude

478 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:41:05pm

Bottom line is we don’t know. I say we give Cain the benefit of the doubt, just like we would anyone else.

Tell me… what did you think of the Kerry Swiftboating? Were you for that or against it?

479 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:43:00pm

re: #478 Buck

I do give Cain the benefit of the doubt. I don’t consider him guilty of sexual harassment. There is no point at which I have said that he was.

I do think that he’s said a lot of inconsistent things about what happened, and for that, I’m free to criticize him.

re: #476 Buck

termination settlement, is not the same as a sexual harassment settlement. Or do you only believe him when you hear what you want to hear.

Huh? Now your’e saying that he was, indeed, referencing a settlement? I thought your argument hinged on him talking about an agreement?

You’re in a pretzel, at this point.

480 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:43:42pm

re: #478 Buck

Bottom line is we don’t know. I say we give Cain the benefit of the doubt, just like we would anyone else.

e_e

Cain does not deserve the benefit of any doubts. He can’t keep his story straight on ANYTHING, including this fiasco.

481 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:48:02pm

re: #479 Obdicut

Huh? Now your’e saying that he was, indeed, referencing a settlement? I thought your argument hinged on him talking about an agreement?

You’re in a pretzel, at this point.

Nope, I have been saying all along that I believe him when he said:

When I first heard the word ‘settlement,’ I thought legal settlement,” Cain said. “My recollection later is that there was an agreement. So, I made assumption about the word ‘settlement’ that was legal. I didn’t think there was a legal settlement, but an agreement. Remember, this happened 12 years ago.”

482 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:57:48pm

re: #479 Obdicut

I do give Cain the benefit of the doubt. I don’t consider him guilty of sexual harassment. There is no point at which I have said that he was.

I do think that he’s said a lot of inconsistent things about what happened, and for that, I’m free to criticize him.

Have you ever had to remember details of an event 10 or more years ago? He uses words like “My recollection later”, and ” I didn’t think there was a legal settlement”. Seems very innocent and very human.

483 jamesfirecat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:06:54pm

re: #482 Buck

Have you ever had to remember details of an event 10 or more years ago? He uses words like “My recollection later”, and ” I didn’t think there was a legal settlement”. Seems very innocent and very human.

I guess questions relating to his own past legal history fall under the same category as who is the president of Ubeki-beki-beki-stan-stan….

484 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:08:22pm

re: #477 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I hope conservatives like Buck are forced to pull the level for either Obama or Cain. /Schadenfreude

Why do you assume that would be Schadenfreude? I think Cain is well supported by the Tea Party and conservatives. I don’t think it would be trouble for them. I think that match up is desired by many.

485 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:11:07pm

re: #483 jamesfirecat

I guess questions relating to his own past legal history fall under the same category as who is the president of Ubeki-beki-beki-stan-stan…

A gotcha question. Remember when Saturday Night Live did a skit on that? Where they would ask Hillary “Who is the President of…..” And when she doesn’t know they tell her the answer, and then ask Obama the same question, which of course, having just heard the correct answer is able to answer correctly.

And the media swooooons.

486 jamesfirecat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:16:50pm

re: #485 Buck

A gotcha question. Remember when Saturday Night Live did a skit on that? Where they would ask Hillary “Who is the President of…” And when she doesn’t know they tell her the answer, and then ask Obama the same question, which of course, having just heard the correct answer is able to answer correctly.

And the media swooons.

Sadly Buck you and I clearly have different opinions on this issue, as I feel that knowing ones own past legal history in all its details is not a “Gotcha” question… if you feel like setting the bar for your Canadian Politicians lower, be my guest, but here in the USA I will demand a better quality leader who damn well knows everything they’ve been accused /arrested of and how it was resolved. It’s not acceptable to be so ignorant that you are taken aback by issues that should in fact be maters of public record.

487 jamesfirecat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:19:13pm

re: #485 Buck

A gotcha question. Remember when Saturday Night Live did a skit on that? Where they would ask Hillary “Who is the President of…” And when she doesn’t know they tell her the answer, and then ask Obama the same question, which of course, having just heard the correct answer is able to answer correctly.

And the media swooons.

And by the way if by some chance, Cain wasn’t aware of exactly what happened in this suit… then he’s not presidential material in my book because it shows him passing the buck to his association to clean up his own dirty messes, not at all a quality I want in my leader.

488 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:26:10pm

re: #487 jamesfirecat

And by the way if by some chance, Cain wasn’t aware of exactly what happened in this suit… then he’s not presidential material in my book because it shows him passing the buck to his association to clean up his own dirty messes, not at all a quality I want in my leader.

Ya, I suspect you were never going to vote for the guy no matter what.

However, in this case you are wrong on many levels. The agreement or settlement was not public record, and actually sometimes it is better NOT to have the person being investigated involved in every way.

If you are ever at work and a person makes a grievance against you, even if you are the CEO, actually especially if you are the CEO you should allow the people who’s job it is to investigate or mediate do their job. It makes sure that there is no influence.

489 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:29:27pm

re: #486 jamesfirecat

I read his comment to mean the Uzbekistan question was a “gotcha”. And then comparing that - Cain’s response in an actual interview - to an SNL skit, as if they’re equivalent. So much fail on so many levels it’s really beyond description.

490 jamesfirecat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:30:36pm

re: #488 Buck

Ya, I suspect you were never going to vote for the guy no matter what.

However, in this case you are wrong on many levels. The agreement or settlement was not public record, and actually sometimes it is better NOT to have the person being investigated involved in every way.

If you are ever at work and a person makes a grievance against you, even if you are the CEO, actually especially if you are the CEO you should allow the people who’s job it is to investigate or mediate do their job. It makes sure that there is no influence.

Yeah but if I’m the CEO I’d sort of like to have them tell me what the f*** the eventual resolution of me setting them to that task was, not just tell them to do it then forget about it.

But you are right on one thing Buck, Pizza Magnate is not a position I see as a suitable springboard to the Presidency and so in that respect I am biased on against Mr. Cain right out of the bat.

That said much of what I’ve seen from him (say his 9-9-9 plan which most independent economists who look at it agree makes NEIN NEIN NEIN sense) seem to have lent confirmation and at this point its less of a bias and more of a theory that I’m assembling data to prove.

Anyway, sleep now, tomorrow is another day and we’re introducing our old cat to our new cat for the first time, wish me/us luck!

491 Jimmi the Grey  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:49:35pm

re: #485 Buck

A gotcha question. Remember when Saturday Night Live did a skit on that? Where they would ask Hillary “Who is the President of…” And when she doesn’t know they tell her the answer, and then ask Obama the same question, which of course, having just heard the correct answer is able to answer correctly.

And the media swooons.

So, you are equating ‘not knowing who the president of…’ with ‘not knowing the name of …country’? As well as reality with a SNL skit?

Dude, serious fail.

492 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:51:42pm

re: #490 jamesfirecat

Yeah but if I’m the CEO I’d sort of like to have them tell me what the f*** the eventual resolution of me setting them to that task was, not just tell them to do it then forget about it.

It seems he was no longer CEO when it was finally resolved.

Pizza Magnate is not a position I see as a suitable springboard to the Presidency

Oh he is much more than that.

Personally I am starting to like 9-9-9. I would love if he could get the CBO to score it.

Luck

493 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:55:04pm

re: #491 Jimmi the Grey

So, you are equating ‘not knowing who the president of…’ with ‘not knowing the name of …country’? As well as reality with a SNL skit?

Dude, serious fail.

No, I am pointing out how it is a wonderful gotcha question. The kind both the President and Vice President get wrong even today.

You would like them to be computers and know everything, but it just isn’t reality.

494 Jimmi the Grey  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:59:06pm

re: #493 Buck

No, I am pointing out how it is a wonderful gotcha question. The kind both the President and Vice President get wrong even today.

You would like them to be computers and know everything, but it just isn’t reality.

They did? Really? Perhaps you could provide links for my erudition?

495 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:05:05pm

re: #494 Jimmi the Grey

They did? Really? Perhaps you could provide links for my erudition?

Make mistakes? Just search obama gaffes or biden gaffes

Everybody fails….. sometimes

496 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:09:48pm

My recent favourite is: “We’re the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad,” Barack Obama.

It happens.

497 Jimmi the Grey  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:20:46pm

re: #495 Buck

Make mistakes? Just search obama gaffes or biden gaffes

Everybody fails… sometimes

No. Everybody makes mistakes now and then. I was asking for links.

…both the President and Vice President get wrong even today.

Was that from today? And was it in relation to the name of a country or it’s president/ruler? Way to totally misdirect…and fail in a most epic way!

You would like them to be computers and know everything, but it just isn’t reality.

I would not like that, nor do I expect it. Way to deflect and miss the point. Partisanism must be a big thing in your part of Canada, eh.

498 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:21:37pm

re: #489 publicityStunted

I read his comment to mean the Uzbekistan question was a “gotcha”. And then comparing that - Cain’s response in an actual interview - to an SNL skit, as if they’re equivalent. So much fail on so many levels it’s really beyond description.

Well, you read it wrong. I am saying that SNL made fun of how the media will ask questions trying to get the candidate to expose some information that they really didn’t need to have memorized at the moment. It’s not like he was standing in the Uzbekistan airport.

Of course you probably think Cain is just stupid. Well it is clear to me that he isn’t.

Everyone misses a few of the IQ test questions. Doesn’t mean they fail.

499 jaunte  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:23:33pm

The stupid part of Cain’s Ubeki-beki-stan-stan derp was making fun of a foreign country’s name for sounding so… foreign.

500 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:23:47pm

re: #497 Jimmi the Grey

No. Everybody makes mistakes now and then. I was asking for links from re: #493 Buck

Was that from today? And was it in relation to the name of a country or it’s president/ruler? Way to totally misdirect…and fail in a most epic way!

It is just childish to say that the gaffe has to be exactly the same to count. And the word “today” didn’t really have to mean Nov 5th 2011 did it?

501 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:25:02pm

re: #499 jaunte

The stupid part of Cain’s Ubeki-beki-stan-stan derp was making fun of a foreign county’s name for sounding so… foreign.

We do it all the time around here. Seriously…. lighten up.

502 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:31:09pm

“I want to mention that this is our first meeting since the arrival of the newest Sarkozy, and I want to congratulate Nicolas and Carla,” Obama said.

“And I informed Nicolas on the way in I was confident Giulia inherited her mother’s looks, rather than her father’s, which I think is an excellent thing.”

Obama making fun of Nicolas Sarkozy’s looks. The president of our ally FRANCE!!!! OOOOH NOOO. It was November 3rd. Pretty close to November 5th. And if jaunte is right, and the crime was making fun…

503 Buck  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:32:37pm

I heard Obama was acting quite drunk when he said it…

///

504 Jimmi the Grey  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:32:54pm

re: #500 Buck

It is just childish to say that the gaffe has to be exactly the same to count. And the word “today” didn’t really have to mean Nov 5th 2011 did it?

You stated ‘today’ and I called you on it. You might also wanna be forgiving of timezones on the North American continent…it’s still Nov 4, 2011 where I exsist.

If you’re gonna be exacting on what others ‘type’ [don’t pull the bullshit on me, scroll up for many examples of you doing just that] you should be exacting on what YOU ‘type’

505 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:48:19am

re: #484 Buck

Why do you assume that would be Schadenfreude?

Um, the Schadenfreude would be on my part, Buck.

I think Cain is well supported by the Tea Party and conservatives.

I hope for his sake none of those women are white, Buck.

506 jamesfirecat  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 6:23:17am

re: #492 Buck

It seems he was no longer CEO when it was finally resolved.

Oh he is much more than that.

Personally I am starting to like 9-9-9. I would love if he could get the CBO to score it.

Luck

What does Herman Cain have to his credit beyond being CEO of a pizza chain then Buck?

507 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:15:37am

re: #505 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I hope for his sake none of those women are white, Buck.

You hope for his sake that none of his supporters are white women?

And why would that be? Seems like a strange and racist thing to say.

508 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:18:19am

re: #507 Buck

Good morning Buck! Have a downding!

509 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:24:04am

re: #506 jamesfirecat

What does Herman Cain have to his credit beyond being CEO of a pizza chain then Buck?

Just as I figured, you really don’t know much about him.

I can mention a few highlights that you may want to be aware of:

a Bachelor of Science degree in mathematics
Masters in computer science from Purdue

mathematician in ballistics as a civilian employee of the United States Navy

honorary degrees from Creighton University, Johnson & Wales University, Morehouse College, University of Nebraska, New York City Technical College, Purdue University, Suffolk University, and Tougaloo College

Cain served as deputy chairman of the board of directors of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City from 1992 to 1994, and as chairman from 1995 to 1996

In 2006, Cain was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer in his colon and metastases to his liver and given a 30-percent chance of survival. Cain underwent surgery and chemotherapy following the diagnosis, and has since reported that he is in remission.

Author of five books:

Leadership is Common Sense (2nd ed.). Tapestry. November 2000 [first published 1997]. ISBN 978-1930819023.
Speak as a Leader. Lebhar-Friedman Books. December 1999. ISBN 978-0867307825.
CEO of SELF. Tapestry. August 2001. ISBN 978-1930819047.
They Think You’re Stupid. Stroud & Hall. June 10, 2011 [first published 2005]. ISBN 978-0979646270.
This Is Herman Cain: My Journey To The White House. Threshold Editions. October 2011. ISBN 978-1451666137.

Worked on multiple political campaigns, including Dole’s presidential run.

There is more, but he is clearly a lot more than a Pizza Magnate.

510 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:26:01am

re: #508 wrenchwench

Like I give a shit about downdings.

511 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:26:55am

re: #509 Buck

Believe it or not, but I appreciate you posting this.

512 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:31:57am

re: #511 Sergey Romanov

Believe it or not, but I appreciate you posting this.

I believe you.

Believe it or not, I believe a loyal opposition is the key to a democracy.

513 Interesting Times  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:06:54am

re: #510 Buck

Like I give a shit about downdings.

Oh yes you do :)

514 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:07:43am

re: #513 publicityStunted

Oh yes you do :)

Oh no I don’t….

515 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:09:39am

re: #513 publicityStunted

Oh yes you do :)

‘Tis better to give than to receive.

/

516 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:13:58am

re: #515 wrenchwench

‘Tis better to give than to receive.

/

Just so I am clear, you don’t think a comment that expresses the “hope for his sake that none of (Cains) supporters are white women” is racist?

517 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:18:14am

re: #516 Buck

Just so I am clear, you don’t think a comment that expresses the “hope for his sake that none of (Cains) supporters are white women” is racist?

I don’t think the phrase “those women” referred to Cain supporters. The fact that you put quotation marks around an incorrect paraphrase makes you look bad, again.

You have to look at the context of the thread, not just one response to your comment.

Have another downding.

518 Interesting Times  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:22:37am

re: #517 wrenchwench

You have to look at the context of the thread, not just one response to your comment.

I’ve seen OCIHACOSP make that comment before, and what she means to express is the following: concern that, should the women in the harassment case turn out to be white, it could open Cain up to racist attacks. She also stated that, if that were to happen, she would defend Cain.

519 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:24:44am

re: #517 wrenchwench

I don’t think the phrase “those women” referred to Cain supporters. The fact that you put quotation marks around an incorrect paraphrase makes you look bad, again.

You have to look at the context of the thread, not just one response to your comment.

Have another downding.

I wrote: “I think Cain is well supported by the Tea Party and conservatives.”

#505 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin wrote, after quoting what I wrote:

“I hope for his sake none of those women are white, Buck.”

Clearly “those women” are Cain supporters.

Denial?

520 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:27:20am

Although, you can enlighten me…. which white women should Cain hope (for his sake) is not (doing something, I don’t know what)?

521 Interesting Times  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:28:33am

re: #518 publicityStunted

Example of the type of comment I’m referring to:

I’ve been saying something very similar. For matters of his personal safety, and also the womens’, I hope their identities are never revealed.
…
We’ll once again be taught an unavoidable lesson in just how the right ranks the value of women of different perceived races/ethnicities, as if anyone needs another object lesson in that. I’ve also said I’ll defend him from any hemp-ropers that form, regardless of what letter is after their name. I put nothing past anyone, on this topic.

522 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:33:11am

re: #520 Buck

Although, you can enlighten me… which white women should Cain hope (for his sake) is not (doing something, I don’t know what)?

Since you ignored what I wrote,

You have to look at the context of the thread, not just one response to your comment.

I’m going to ignore you. Also, publicityStunted is offering you all kinds of help, and you ignore that as well.

Have some more downdings, then enjoy being on ignore.

523 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:36:41am

re: #522 wrenchwench

Since you ignored what I wrote,

I’m going to ignore you. Also, publicityStunted is offering you all kinds of help, and you ignore that as well.

Have some more downdings, then enjoy being on ignore.

I didn’t ignore it. It came after I asked the questions. I certainly did seem to misunderstand, but in my defence it was unclear. Unclear, so I asked…

524 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:39:14am

However I don’t think the race of the accusers will influence Cains supporters in anyway.

I guess OCIHACOSP must still think that the tea party and conservatives are racist.

525 jamesfirecat  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:53:11am

re: #509 Buck

Just as I figured, you really don’t know much about him.

I can mention a few highlights that you may want to be aware of:

a Bachelor of Science degree in mathematics
Masters in computer science from Purdue

mathematician in ballistics as a civilian employee of the United States Navy

honorary degrees from Creighton University, Johnson & Wales University, Morehouse College, University of Nebraska, New York City Technical College, Purdue University, Suffolk University, and Tougaloo College

Cain served as deputy chairman of the board of directors of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City from 1992 to 1994, and as chairman from 1995 to 1996

In 2006, Cain was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer in his colon and metastases to his liver and given a 30-percent chance of survival. Cain underwent surgery and chemotherapy following the diagnosis, and has since reported that he is in remission.

Author of five books:

Leadership is Common Sense (2nd ed.). Tapestry. November 2000 [first published 1997]. ISBN 978-1930819023.
Speak as a Leader. Lebhar-Friedman Books. December 1999. ISBN 978-0867307825.
CEO of SELF. Tapestry. August 2001. ISBN 978-1930819047.
They Think You’re Stupid. Stroud & Hall. June 10, 2011 [first published 2005]. ISBN 978-0979646270.
This Is Herman Cain: My Journey To The White House. Threshold Editions. October 2011. ISBN 978-1451666137.

Worked on multiple political campaigns, including Dole’s presidential run.

There is more, but he is clearly a lot more than a Pizza Magnate.

Yes there is a lot I didn’t know about him I’ll admit.

I’m even actually sort of impressed by the

“Cain served as deputy chairman of the board of directors of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City from 1992 to 1994, and as chairman from 1995 to 1996”

But, however it’s also the only thing that I saw that dealt with holding governmental position as helping people run for office only makes you a better candidate not a leader.

Like I said before even withe the stuff you’ve mentioned he seems more cut out to be a business leader than a president and the fact that his 9-9-9 plan would be horribly regressive in the eyes of most people who look at it….

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

“The Tax Policy Center analysis shows that Cain has it exactly backward. Compared with current tax rates, 84 percent of taxpayers would pay more under 9-9-9 if it were fully implemented in 2013. Just 14 percent — the wealthiest — would see their tax bills drop. “


[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

[Link: www.taxpolicycenter.org…]

“One thing that happens when a longshot candidate skyrockets in the polls is his policy proposals start getting more scrutiny. The Tax Policy Center, for example, has a new analysis out of the distributive consequences of Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan. The Tax Policy Center models 9-9-9 as catchy new slogan for a de facto national consumption tax*, and consequently constitutes a tax increase on most Americans but a tax cut for high income people who engage in a lot of savings and investment. I converted their table into two charts:”

Image: cain-plan.jpg


” 9-9-9 in One (Really Long) Graph: “In my previous post decrying the extreme redistribution of the tax burden from the wealthy to everyone else, I had to use two graphs to tell the story. I couldn’t fit the increase in tax liabilities for the bottom 80% on the same graph that include the over $1 million decrease in tax liability for the top 0.1%.

526 jamesfirecat  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:55:11am

Continuing from my last post

[Link: delong.typepad.com…]

But my CBPP colleague Brian Highsmith could. So here you have it: the change in tax liabilities, compared to current tax policy, under 9-9-9, for different income groups, in one incredibly unsettling graph.”

You can argue that tax cuts do more to stimulate the economy than government spending and I’ll think you’re wrong… but when you line up behind a highly regressive tax plan like this one… what do you like about it Buck? Complicated economic problems tend not to have simple solutions and in this case I fail to see what is attractive about a plan that will put a heavier burden on those who have little and a greater burden on tho have a great deal already…..

What do you honestly like about the plan?

527 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 12:54:45pm

re: #526 jamesfirecat

What do you honestly like about the plan?

I have some experience with a national sales tax. All of your sources leave out parts. It is not completely their fault as they don’t really have all the details. It is a bit like being against Obama’s health care plan before the election. People didn’t have the details, it was just a concept.

The main objection to a national sale tax is that it would tax poor people who currently pay no tax at all. This issue can be overcome very easily, and is here in Canada. Basically anyone who files an income tax return with income below a certain amount will get a tax refund for the sales tax they paid in the previous year. The people you link to like to assume the worse.

Where would new money come from if not from the poor?

The national sales tax has some advantages. An example is that people who are in the underground economy (and there are a lot of people who simply never even file a tax form) still pay tax on everything they consume. Billions of dollars in tax income is lost every year when people pay for things with cash… under the table, through criminal transactions etc.

These tax avoiders still buy stuff, they just pay cash. However they can’t get everything “under the table”. When they buy or rent a house, they would pay the sales tax. When they buy a car… when they stay in a hotel for vacation… more sales tax collected.

A business that is hiding income from the IRS? Well, everything they buy, all the money they spend is taxed. Any company that wants to recover that new cost? Well they have to also collect it on sales. They are allowed to subtract what they paid from what they collect. I don’t want to go into too much detail here but if they are just in business to lose money, meaning they always show a shortfall, they are no longer allowed to collect.

Another advantage is that is taxes already taxed money. The wealthy buy stuff. They buy lots of stuff. You want an example? Look at all the stuff Bernie Madoff had accumulated. All those “Bankers” the OWS thinks should pay more tax? We know they spend small fortunes every day. Well a national sales tax would collect a huge amount of money from all that consumption.

Your sources underestimate that tax base. I understand why. The Canadian government did the same thing. They started the National sales tax at 7%. It brought in too much money. it has since been reduced to 5%.

Should I continue?

528 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 12:56:51pm

re: #527 Buck

Make sure you cover how the wealthy would get an absolutely enormous tax break from the lowered income tax, Buck.

I know you won’t, since you’re going to claim that the sales tax makes up for it, as though the ultrawealthy spend anywhere near 100% of their income in a year and as though, even if they did, a 9% sales tax plus a 9% income tax would equal the amount of tax they pay now.

529 jamesfirecat  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 1:29:58pm

re: #527 Buck

I have some experience with a national sales tax. All of your sources leave out parts. It is not completely their fault as they don’t really have all the details. It is a bit like being against Obama’s health care plan before the election. People didn’t have the details, it was just a concept.

The main objection to a national sale tax is that it would tax poor people who currently pay no tax at all. This issue can be overcome very easily, and is here in Canada. Basically anyone who files an income tax return with income below a certain amount will get a tax refund for the sales tax they paid in the previous year. The people you link to like to assume the worse.

Where would new money come from if not from the poor?

The national sales tax has some advantages. An example is that people who are in the underground economy (and there are a lot of people who simply never even file a tax form) still pay tax on everything they consume. Billions of dollars in tax income is lost every year when people pay for things with cash… under the table, through criminal transactions etc.

These tax avoiders still buy stuff, they just pay cash. However they can’t get everything “under the table”. When they buy or rent a house, they would pay the sales tax. When they buy a car… when they stay in a hotel for vacation… more sales tax collected.

A business that is hiding income from the IRS? Well, everything they buy, all the money they spend is taxed. Any company that wants to recover that new cost? Well they have to also collect it on sales. They are allowed to subtract what they paid from what they collect. I don’t want to go into too much detail here but if they are just in business to lose money, meaning they always show a shortfall, they are no longer allowed to collect.

Another advantage is that is taxes already taxed money. The wealthy buy stuff. They buy lots of stuff. You want an example? Look at all the stuff Bernie Madoff had accumulated. All those “Bankers” the OWS thinks should pay more tax? We know they spend small fortunes every day. Well a national sales tax would collect a huge amount of money from all that consumption.

Your sources underestimate that tax base. I understand why. The Canadian government did the same thing. They started the National sales tax at 7%. It brought in too much money. it has since been reduced to 5%.

Should I continue?

When Herman Cain says that he plans to give the poor a tax break in regards to the sales tax, I’ll start taking his plan seriously (I don’t say I’ll support it just take it as a serious plan that is deserving of hearing the pros and cons of) do you have any proof that Herman Cain plans to do what you suggest he should do? Because the closest I’ve come is hearing him say that he’d nullify the income tax portion of it for poor people (9-0-9) have you heard him anywhere suggest he plans to make it (0-0-9)? for poor people?

530 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 1:56:15pm

re: #529 jamesfirecat

When Herman Cain says that he plans to give the poor a tax break in regards to the sales tax, I’ll start taking his plan seriously (I don’t say I’ll support it just take it as a serious plan that is deserving of hearing the pros and cons of) do you have any proof that Herman Cain plans to do what you suggest he should do? Because the closest I’ve come is hearing him say that he’d nullify the income tax portion of it for poor people (9-0-9) have you heard him anywhere suggest he plans to make it (0-0-9)? for poor people?

I admit early on that the details are missing. That is not uncommon. As I mentioned you didn’t get the details of Obamacare until after it was passed.

Cain is not stupid, he knows that he can’t increase the prices of all goods and services by 9% and not bring horrible hardship to the poor. I understand that it would be easy to see some kind of idiot, puppet, or evil being, but that is just the partisan politics of the day.

I describe how it works in Canada. Cain says that the tax would not be on top of the selling price but would replace taxes that are already embedded in selling prices. So the price would not go up.

Purposely vague. However like I say, that is the way these things work.

He is aware that prices cannot suddenly go up 9%. He studies other national sales taxes.

In one way or another, the poor will not have to pony up an extra 9%

531 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 1:58:17pm

re: #528 Obdicut

as though the ultrawealthy spend anywhere near 100% of their income

In fact some people, companies and even countries spend more than 100% of their income.

532 jamesfirecat  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:04:11pm

re: #530 Buck

I admit early on that the details are missing. That is not uncommon. As I mentioned you didn’t get the details of Obamacare until after it was passed.

Cain is not stupid, he knows that he can’t increase the prices of all goods and services by 9% and not bring horrible hardship to the poor. I understand that it would be easy to see some kind of idiot, puppet, or evil being, but that is just the partisan politics of the day.

I describe how it works in Canada. Cain says that the tax would not be on top of the selling price but would replace taxes that are already embedded in selling prices. So the price would not go up.

Purposely vague. However like I say, that is the way these things work.

He is aware that prices cannot suddenly go up 9%. He studies other national sales taxes.

In one way or another, the poor will not have to pony up an extra 9%

I’ll believe it when I hear Cain say it. He’s got 12 months between now and election day it shouldn’t take him that long to figure out what you already have Buck.

533 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:09:41pm

re: #532 jamesfirecat

I’ll believe it when I hear Cain say it. He’s got 12 months between now and election day it shouldn’t take him that long to figure out what you already have Buck.

He probably wont get the chance, but thanks for keeping an open mind.

534 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:42:11pm

re: #528 Obdicut

a 9% sales tax plus a 9% income tax would (not) equal the amount of tax they pay now.

I added the word not as I am pretty sure you meant that.

The math that I think is eluding you is the rate of income tax is currently on the number AFTER all the deduction enjoyed by the wealthy.

Those earning (before deductions) from $103,000 to $163,000, which constitutes the top 80% to 90% of earners, pay 18.2% But that tax rate is actually calculated on the taxable (after all deductions) total.

Earn $140,000 which constitutes the top 80% to 90% of earners. Deductions bring it down to $110,000 in TAXABLE income. Pay 18% or $20,000

Earn $140,000, pay 9% or $13,000. So you feel like you have reduced your income tax by 7,000. Spend only $80,000 of the $127,000 you were left with, and there you go.
——————————

Yes, there will be some misers who spend less. Yes those people will be rewarded. However that will be made up by the wealthy people who pay NO income tax right now, but should.

535 Mark Winter  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:56:49pm

Evolution doesn’t exist
Climate change doesn’t exist
Sexual harassment doesn’t exist

The Republican platform in a nutshell

536 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:57:37pm

re: #534 Buck

Why not talk about the top 5% of earners, Buck? The ones that will get a gigantic, monstrous, huge tax cut?

537 Mark Winter  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 3:10:14pm

You can only seriously tax the rich with things they cannot run away from. Real estate etc.

For most of the super rich it doesn’t matter whether you tax their “income” at 9 or 90%. They are not paying anyway.

538 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 3:22:56pm

re: #536 Obdicut

Why not talk about the top 5% of earners, Buck? The ones that will get a gigantic, monstrous, huge tax cut?

You keep saying that. Maybe you want to throw out some numbers?

No one knows exactly how much of Bill Gates income is capgains, dividends and earned income…

Can’t do the math without the data.

539 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 4:47:03pm

re: #538 Buck


Then why are you claiming to have done the math?

540 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 5:57:45pm

re: #539 Obdicut

Then why are you claiming to have done the math?

I can’t seem top prove it to you. I did more than a few examples. You keep coming back to your belief that the ultrawealthy don’t spend anywhere near 100% of their income.

I explained that, sooner or later the money does get spent. I also said that many spend more than 100%. I also explained that they didn’t HAVE to spend 100%, that the math means that when you remove their deductions it changed the balance.

You keep repeating yourself, and you wont accept my numbers. YET you are unwilling to put forth any numbers yourself.

Basically you keep chanting like an OWS maniac, trying to shout me down.

Like the OWS, you aren’t really participating.

541 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 6:02:38pm

re: #537 Mark Winter

You can only seriously tax the rich with things they cannot run away from. Real estate etc.

For most of the super rich it doesn’t matter whether you tax their “income” at 9 or 90%. They are not paying anyway.

That is why a consumption tax is so great. You get 9% on almost everything they spend their money on.

542 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 6:14:06pm

re: #332 EmmmieG

Along with everyone else, I will now chime in.

The money took away their right to sue anyone. They gave up the right to speak publicly by signing the document.

He is guilty or innocent regardless of their accusation. If you were a thief, but I did not say so, that would not make you not a thief. If the table is blue, and I do not say it is blue, it does not become a different color. Truth stands independent of what we want it to be.

I didn’t see this earlier. Who’s truth stands?

I always thought you were innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Silly me.

543 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 6:21:56pm

re: #542 Buck

No. That’s a legal principle, not an epistemological one. That only means a state cannot do anything to you unless you’ve been convicted by a proper court. It doesn’t mean you’re actually innocent. Many well-known murderers were never convicted. I could Godwin the thread right now, but I’ll go with a lighter example - OJ is guilty of murder, but he was never convicted in a criminal court.

544 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 6:38:23pm

re: #543 Sergey Romanov

OJ is guilty of murder, but he was never convicted in a criminal court.

Well, even that is debatable. Good example though, another Black man.

Isn’t that nice, Herman Cain can be considered guilty of a horrible crime, without any evidence, without being able to confront or question any witness.

Now I see why they call it a lynching. The mob decides. Not the way I see it.

545 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 6:43:51pm

re: #544 Buck

You’re getting emotional, but the fact remains that “innocent until proven guilty” is not an epistemological principle. We can argue about whether or not there is evidence re:Cain, that is an interesting debate to have. But one of the possible options is that yes, he is guilty of sexual harrassment - and that is regardless of whether he has been convicted in a court of law. (Note that I’m not saying in this comment that he actually is guilty.) That’s all there is to my point - we don’t have to have a court’s decision to arrive at truth. Historians arrive at truth all the time, through analyzing evidence and not necessarily relying on court verdicts.

546 b_sharp  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:00:48pm

re: #544 Buck

Well, even that is debatable. Good example though, another Black man.

Isn’t that nice, Herman Cain can be considered guilty of a horrible crime, without any evidence, without being able to confront or question any witness.

Now I see why they call it a lynching. The mob decides. Not the way I see it.

You sir, are an ass.

You also missed the point which had nothing to do with race, gender, or the colour of dog shit.

547 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:14:44pm

re: #545 Sergey Romanov

So, with what you know. Actually know… How did this resolve itself 12 years ago?

Would you say it was never resolved? Would you say it was resolved with Cain being found to be guilty? Is it fair to say that because of the settlement no one can ever say if he is innocent or guilty? And that it will hang around his neck until he dies? He can never prove his innocence, so it is perfectly fair to say … Well, it could be true (one of the possible options? really?)… so no one can say he is not guilty.


That is fucked up, and I suspect reserved only for certain people.

548 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:15:55pm

re: #546 b_sharp

You sir, are an ass.

You also missed the point which had nothing to do with race, gender, or the colour of dog shit.

so YOU say.

549 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:20:31pm

re: #547 Buck

It’s life, shit happens. Sometimes we’ve got to live with uncertainty.

I would say that from the info we have now no very firm conclusions are possible, but from the 3 accusations (2 of them official, resulting in settlements) I would bet on the women truly feeling that they were sexually harrassed. Whether it was intentional on Cain’s part I cannot say.

As I said, I can’t make a firm conclusion. But neither I can just ignore 3 accusations, forget them and say that yeah, nothing has happened.

550 b_sharp  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:20:54pm

re: #548 Buck

so YOU say.

Just for shits and giggles, can you restate his point?

551 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:51:17pm

re: #549 Sergey Romanov

Is “I would bet on the women truly feeling that they were sexually harrassed. ” one of the firm conclusion?

Without actually hearing their side, without read the complaint. Without knowing ANYTHING about them whatsoever, other than they are female and worked for the NRA. Maybe in the last 12 years they have all been convicted of fraud? Maybe they were professional con artists?

With absolutely zero background information on these women you “would bet on the women truly feeling that they were sexually harrassed.”

And why would you bet that? What has Cain ever done, that you actually know of, to make you think he sexually harassed anyone? Maybe it is because he serves as an associate minister Antioch Baptist Church North in Atlanta, which he joined at the age of 10. Maybe it is because he is a married man (43 years).

It can’t be that you believe the women who accused him. You don’t know anything about them. It has to be something about Cain…. I just can’t imagine what it is.

552 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:54:57pm

re: #551 Buck

Without actually hearing their side, without read the complaint. Without knowing ANYTHING about them whatsoever, other than they are female and worked for the NRA.

Uh, we do know something relevant. That there were two settlements. They don’t happen out of the blue.

Maybe in the last 12 years they have all been convicted of fraud? Maybe they were professional con artists?

What’s your evidence for this? You do understand that bare hypotheticals don’t work, since they can be dreamed up for any situation whatsoever?

Now explain why you think these three women are liars.

553 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:13:51pm

re: #544 Buck

No, Buck, they call it lynching when a man is hung, killed by mob justice. Not when people say that he might have sexually harassed two women. Which might have happened. Or it might have not. The two women felt that it did. Cain, obviously, feels it did not.

Trivializing murder is a shameful thing.

554 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:21:26pm

re: #552 Sergey Romanov

Uh, we do know something relevant. That there were two settlements. They don’t happen out of the blue.

No, not out of the blue. We know he was accused.

We don’t know why there were settlements. It isn’t because Cain must have been guilty. You cannot take away from the fact that the women were given exit packages anything about Cain. It could just as easily be that even though the claims were baseless, as Cain claims, the cost of fighting outweighed the settlement demands. This happens often. Sometimes a company goes to court, and even when they win they lose.

Nope, I don’t think it is just because there were settlements. That just doesn’t make sense. You know almost nothing about the settlements. Not enough to feel comfortable betting on these women. So you nothing about the settlements, and nothing about the women.

I would be willing to bet it must be something about Cain that makes you so certain you would bet on the women.

————————————————

I didn’t actually say these women were liars. I could not possibly come to that conclusion, because I know NOTHING ABOUT THEM. Other than the fact that they took money to stop their claims.

However in the absence of ANY FACTS to the contrary, I think it is only fair to give Cain the benefit of the doubt.

555 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:22:48pm

re: #554 Buck

Why don’t you think it’s fair to give the women the benefit of the doubt?

556 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:25:07pm

re: #554 Buck

Buck, if I were to stoop to your level I would darkly hint about your secret motives in blithely dismissing three female witnesses. I won’t. But since you can’t help yourself but get personal - and nastily so - in each new reply - I’m done talking to you.

557 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:42:35pm

re: #553 Obdicut

The two women felt that it did.

How do you know that? Did they tell you that?

I don’t know that.

This mess was over for the women 12 years ago. They now swim in the ocean of anonymity. No one can accuse them, or think they are guilty or innocent. They took the money, and it was over. They didn’t have to prove what they said was true. They didn’t have to face the man they were accusing.

No one is trying to ruin their lives by bringing up the past. No one could. It isn’t their career hanging in the balance.

It isn’t that I don’t believe them. They are not telling me anything.

Let me ask you something. Don’t you think it is strange that Politico can do 50 stories on this subject and yet not have even one actual detail about what Cain is supposed to have done? I personally think that if they had any salacious details they would tell at least one or two. Don’t you think so?

I have been consistent. I gave the same benefit of the doubt to Weiner, and to DSK.

558 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:44:38pm

re: #556 Sergey Romanov

blithely dismissing three female witnesses.

You must be dense. I have stated over and over that I can’t dismiss what they say, because I don’t know what they say. They have chosen NOT to be witnesses.

559 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:48:00pm

re: #558 Buck

You must be dense.

There you go again. *sigh*

560 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:18:16pm

re: #544 Buck

Now I see why they call it a lynching.

That’s because, as usual, you are ignorant as fuck about your own white conservative history.

You are very easily manipulated because of it.

561 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:19:42pm

re: #551 Buck

It has to be something about Cain… I just can’t imagine what it is.

Can’t you, though. e_e

562 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:20:40pm

re: #553 Obdicut

No, Buck, they call it lynching when a man is hung, killed by mob justice. Not when people say that he might have sexually harassed two women. Which might have happened. Or it might have not. The two women felt that it did. Cain, obviously, feels it did not.

Trivializing murder is a shameful thing.

Trivializing lynching is a white conservative thing.

563 Buck  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:28:42pm

re: #560 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That’s because, as usual, you are ignorant as fuck about your own white conservative history.

You don’t know me, you just think you do.

564 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:45:56pm

re: #563 Buck

You don’t know me, you just think you do.

I don’t purport to know you, nor do I wish to. Your posts reveal your ignorance on the topic.

Don’t speak for us and don’t try to defend us. Nobody buys it, coming from someone who votes with literal present-day neo-Confederates.

565 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 11:47:46pm

re: #547 Buck

Is it fair to say that because of the settlement no one can ever say if he is innocent or guilty? And that it will hang around his neck until he dies?

Stupid, ignorant imagery, Buck.

566 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 1:45:26am

re: #540 Buck

I can’t seem top prove it to you. I did more than a few examples. You keep coming back to your belief that the ultrawealthy don’t spend anywhere near 100% of their income.

Well, yeah. It’s something that’s very obviously true, Buck. Even you know it, because you keep saying that they’ll ‘eventually’ spend the money. Which makes no sense, because we’re talking about a tax that happens per year. You also have made it clear you don’t want to tax the sale of stock or other financial instruments at all, which is one of the main things the ultrawealthy buy.

The sales tax also exempts used items from the sales tax, which would actually be crippling, economically, to the very industries catering to the wealthy that guys like you depend on for mythical trickle-down effects. If you’re going to buy a thirty million dollar mega-yacht, and you can save 2.7 million buy buying it used, why wouldn’t you? Every piece of art in the world is ‘used’, classic cars are ‘used’, there’s a gigantic amount of crap that they’d pay 0% sales tax on.

You can’t really fool yourself into thinking your limp, flaccid arguments are going to convince anyone of anything, can, you, Buck? Are you that self-deceived?

567 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 3:55:07am

The idea that all money that’s ever been emitted will eventually be spent somehow is merely magical thinking.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

568 Kronocide  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 9:00:05am

Hey, we just don’t have all the evidence to make a decision.

So, no decision.

But if there is a decision, those women might be lying bitches. Ya know, just in case we have to make a decision.

569 Charles Johnson  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 9:12:48am

It always amazes me how quickly right wingers can switch from “there’s no such thing as racism” to “you’re a racist because you’re criticizing our token minority candidate.”

570 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 9:57:38am

re: #569 Charles

It always amazes me how quickly right wingers can switch from “there’s no such thing as racism” to “you’re a racist because you’re criticizing our token minority candidate.”

That, and acting like we haven’t already seen twelve generations of this same exact mentality from them, year in, year out.

Their approach reveals the stupidity and race-insanity they accuse us minorities of…they do the same things over and over and over again, yet expect and demand different results from us.

571 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 10:02:25am

re: #569 Charles

It always amazes me how quickly right wingers can switch from “there’s no such thing as racism” to “you’re a racist because you’re criticizing our token minority candidate.”

Because liberals and lefties are the only real racists. Limbaugh and Cain said so.

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