Video: Rachel Maddow and Rand Paul, Part 2
Politics • Views: 3,487
1044 comments
2 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:00:21pm |
The tuning fork of intellectual disgrace!
| 3 |
Killgore Trout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:00:51pm |
There’s an A 440 in the dial tone on your phone. Srsly.
/New world order!
| 4 |
Killgore Trout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:06:42pm |
A painful and devastating takedown of Buckley (who I’ve had many previous issues with)
| 5 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:07:58pm |
re: #3 Killgore Trout
There’s an A 440 in the dial tone on your phone. Srsly.
/New world order!
OH NOES!!1 HEAD FOR THE HILLZ!11 BUY GOLD!1 BUG GUNZ!!111 BUY NON-HYBRID SEEDZ!!!111
/Glen Beck
| 6 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:12:02pm |
re: #4 Killgore Trout
A painful and devastating takedown of Buckley (who I’ve had many previous issues with)
Do you mean William F. Buckley? And if so, where is it in the vid time-wise?
| 7 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:12:08pm |
Bust a deal, face the wheel, Rand Paul!
| 8 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 9:12:49pm |
| 9 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:13:20pm |
My God! She can Tune!
| 10 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:14:59pm |
re: #7 WindUpBird
Bust a deal, face the wheel, Rand Paul!
After facing Maddow, he’ll be left Rollin’ on the River. Nice Mad Max quote.
| 11 |
avanti Thu, May 20, 2010 9:15:29pm |
re: #4 Killgore Trout
A painful and devastating takedown of Buckley (who I’ve had many previous issues with)
Yes, but Buckley renounced his early comments. ( For whatever that’s worth.)
| 12 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:15:50pm |
You can tune a piano, but you can’t tuna fish.
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:15:55pm |
re: #9 WindUpBird
[Video]My God! She can Tune!
Great movie. It’s something of a cult flick, but I saw it in the theater and I loved it.
| 14 |
recusancy Thu, May 20, 2010 9:17:06pm |
re: #6 Dark_Falcon
Do you mean William F. Buckley? And if so, where is it in the vid time-wise?
Yup. I’d start it around 7:45
| 15 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:17:40pm |
re: #11 avanti
Yes, but Buckley renounced his early comments. ( For whatever that’s worth.)
It’s worth a good bit. He realized he was in error, and changed his views. That’s mark of clear-thinking individuals.
| 16 |
reine.de.tout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:17:51pm |
EPA originally approved this for use, but is now admitting that this particular dispersant has never been tested in deep seas.
EPA Administrator, at the last minute, cancelled a scheduled interview with local Baton Rouge news media.
| 17 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:18:37pm |
re: #4 Killgore Trout
A painful and devastating takedown of Buckley (who I’ve had many previous issues with)
“With whom you’ve had many previous issues”, you mean?
Buckley is not the point here. He later revised and said he regretted those views.
On another subject altogether: how is Rachel Maddow’s 20-minute attempt to get a “gotcha” (or, as I would put it, a straight answer) about private property and race out of Rand Paul (an attempt which I consider completely justified given his weasel words) any different as an intellectual ploy from Rep. Smith’s attempt to get a “gotcha” (or, as I would put it, a straight answer) about radical Islam out of Eric Holder?
| 18 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 9:18:38pm |
re: #12 Cannadian Club Akbar
You can tune a piano, but you can’t tuna fish.
From the Midnight Special 1978
| 19 |
reine.de.tout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:18:41pm |
re: #15 Dark_Falcon
It’s worth a good bit. He realized he was in error, and changed his views. That’s mark of clear-thinking individuals.
Yes it is.
Some here have had their minds changed about various topics over the course of the past couple of years, as information has come to light.
It happens, it should happen.
| 20 |
avanti Thu, May 20, 2010 9:19:13pm |
re: #15 Dark_Falcon
It’s worth a good bit. He realized he was in error, and changed his views. That’s mark of clear-thinking individuals.
That’s why I cut him some slack for 40 year old comments, Rand still seems to hold them.
| 22 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 9:19:58pm |
re: #17 Cato the Elder
“With whom you’ve had many previous issues”, you mean?
Buckley is not the point here. He later revised and said he regretted those views.
On another subject altogether: how is Rachel Maddow’s 20-minute attempt to get a “gotcha” (or, as I would put it, a straight answer) about private property and race out of Rand Paul (an attempt which I consider completely justified given his weasel words) any different as an intellectual ploy from Rep. Smith’s attempt to get a “gotcha” (or, as I would put it, a straight answer) about radical Islam out of Eric Holder?
[Thwack!]
| 23 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:20:05pm |
re: #10 Dark_Falcon
After facing Maddow, he’ll be left Rollin’ on the River. Nice Mad Max quote.
One of my favorite movie series of all time. ^_^
| 24 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:20:40pm |
re: #18 Stanley Sea
[Video]From the Midnight Special 1978
I won a radio contest knowing the song isn’t “Keep on Rolling”. :)
| 25 |
bratwurst Thu, May 20, 2010 9:22:20pm |
re: #11 avanti
Yes, but Buckley renounced his early comments. ( For whatever that’s worth.)
FLIP FLOPPER!
| 26 |
recusancy Thu, May 20, 2010 9:22:21pm |
Buckley regretted his views because times changed. As Lee Atwater put it:
You start out in 1954 by saying, “n*****, n*****, n*****.” By 1968 you can’t say “n*****” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “n*****, n*****.”
| 27 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, May 20, 2010 9:23:23pm |
Students Expelled for Bringing Pot Brownies On Field Trip
BARDONIA, N.Y. (WPIX) - Six students have been expelled from a New York Catholic school after sneaking marijuana-laced brownies on a class trip to Washington, DC, school officials said.
Joseph T. Troy, the principal of Albertus Magnus High School, said he is aware of the situation and confirmed to PIX 11 News that the students involved have all been expelled. However, he said he was not able to give additional information.
Several students at the school have started a Facebook page supporting the six juniors. Many of their friends say the punishment is too harsh.
One student wrote on the page, “As all of you know, six junior class students were expelled earlier today. We do believe that they should be punished but expelling them from school is too harsh and is not fair to the students.”
The teens have been described by many as excellent students with no criminal pasts. Their ties with Albertus Magnus High School weren’t made immediately clear.
People still do this shit? Don’t bogart that drag, man.
| 28 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, May 20, 2010 9:23:23pm |
re: #24 Cannadian Club Akbar
I won a radio contest knowing the song isn’t “Keep on Rolling”. :)
What did you win?
| 29 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:24:12pm |
re: #14 recusancy
Yup. I’d start it around 7:45
I just saw. Those were wrong to say, and I’m glad WFB realized that later. Sadly, NR has published columns by a racist recently, the odious Michelle Malkin.
| 30 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:24:39pm |
re: #28 Floral Giraffe
What did you win?
2 big macs and a pair of tix to a midnight movie. I was kicked out of the movie. The movie was “The Warriors”.
| 31 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:24:57pm |
Nobody needs to answer my question in #17, by the way. The facts are plain: “gotcha” is good when you disagree with the person getting got, but bad and obnoxious and evil when you disagree with the would-be gotcha getter.
Just thought I’d point that out.
| 32 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 9:25:06pm |
re: #27 Shiplord Kirel
Students Expelled for Bringing Pot Brownies On Field Trip
People still do this shit? Don’t bogart that drag, man.
A pot brownie was intercepted in my fourth block study hall earlier this year.
| 33 |
reine.de.tout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:25:30pm |
re: #30 Cannadian Club Akbar
2 big macs and a pair of tix to a midnight movie. I was kicked out of the movie. The movie was “The Warriors”.
hm.
Why were you kicked out of the movie?
Good grief, man, you can’t tell us a snippet of something interesting and then not tell us the interesting part!
| 34 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:25:31pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
Great movie. It’s something of a cult flick, but I saw it in the theater and I loved it.
Yeah, it’s really something. One of only about three or four movies I’ve ever seen twice in the theater. More like it, plz!
| 35 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:26:28pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
hm.
Why were you kicked out of the movie?Good grief, man, you can’t tell us a snippet of something interesting and then not tell us the interesting part!
I was caught with brownies.
/Kidding. I was smoking weed in the theater.
| 36 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:26:34pm |
re: #30 Cannadian Club Akbar
2 big macs and a pair of tix to a midnight movie. I was kicked out of the movie. The movie was “The Warriors”.
“Warriors, come out and playyyyyyyy”
Love that movie.
| 37 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:27:01pm |
| 38 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 9:27:01pm |
re: #16 reine.de.tout
They have three days to make the switch. It’s quite controversial as we don’t know if the new stuff will work as well.
| 39 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:27:14pm |
re: #35 Cannadian Club Akbar
I was caught with brownies.
/Kidding. I was smoking weed in the theater.
HA!
Classic.
| 40 |
freetoken Thu, May 20, 2010 9:27:16pm |
re: #4 Killgore Trout
A painful and devastating takedown of Buckley (who I’ve had many previous issues with)
I never try to take on the Buckley-ites around here.
| 41 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 9:27:20pm |
re: #31 Cato the Elder
Nobody needs to answer my question in #17, by the way. The facts are plain: “gotcha” is good when you disagree with the person getting got, but bad and obnoxious and evil when you disagree with the would-be gotcha getter.
Just thought I’d point that out.
I (kind of) did !
| 42 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 9:27:27pm |
re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist
A pot brownie was intercepted in my fourth block study hall earlier this year.
How did it taste?
| 43 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:27:33pm |
re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist
A pot brownie was intercepted in my fourth block study hall earlier this year.
Damn kids! Wait until you’re adults like I did!
| 44 |
Racer X Thu, May 20, 2010 9:28:09pm |
re: #32 SanFranciscoZionist
A pot brownie was intercepted in my fourth block study hall earlier this year.
How was it?
| 45 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:28:15pm |
re: #27 Shiplord Kirel
Students Expelled for Bringing Pot Brownies On Field Trip
People still do this shit? Don’t bogart that drag, man.
That’s a fair punishment. They brought drugs to a school event, so they should be kicked out.
| 46 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:28:22pm |
I miss weed. Don’t like the buzz, but love the taste.
| 47 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 9:29:16pm |
re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar
I miss weed. Don’t like the buzz, but love the taste.
I only read Playboy for the articles.
| 48 |
reine.de.tout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:29:28pm |
re: #38 Bagua
They have three days to make the switch. It’s quite controversial as we don’t know if the new stuff will work as well.
But the old stuff seems to be problematic.
Good grief.
| 49 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:29:28pm |
re: #45 Dark_Falcon
That’s a fair punishment. They brought drugs to a school event, so they should be kicked out.
Correction: they got caught, so they will be kicked out.
The smarter kids will learn not to get caught.
| 50 |
Racer X Thu, May 20, 2010 9:29:30pm |
| 51 |
Olsonist Thu, May 20, 2010 9:29:56pm |
re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar
I miss weed. Don’t like the buzz, but love the taste.
No cannabinoids for you.
| 52 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:30:18pm |
re: #42 Bagua
How did it taste?
Did you ever hear that 911 recording of the cop who seized the pot brownies, then ate them, then tripped so hard he called 911 in a panic? One of the greatest 911 calls ever.
“I think we’re dying.”
“I think we’re dead.”
“Time is going by really really really really slow.”
| 53 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:30:59pm |
re: #51 Olsonist
No cannabinoids for you.
Last time i smoked anything was hash from Amsterdam. Wish I remembered that night.
| 54 |
reine.de.tout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:31:18pm |
re: #52 WindUpBird
That’s too funny.
My daughter and I were talking about that very recording just yesterday!
| 55 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 9:31:33pm |
re: #31 Cato the Elder
Nobody needs to answer my question in #17, by the way. The facts are plain: “gotcha” is good when you disagree with the person getting got, but bad and obnoxious and evil when you disagree with the would-be gotcha getter.
Just thought I’d point that out.
Actually, that’s a pretty specious parallel. “Radical Islam” doesn’t have any precise meaning. “Desegregation of lunch counters” has.
| 56 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:31:58pm |
re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar
I miss weed. Don’t like the buzz, but love the taste.
I’ve already decided that as soon as Arkansas passes a medical pot law (we should get a chance in the next year or so to vote on it) I am getting a RX for it.
Not to smoke, but maybe as a tea or in fudge/brownines .
I’d love to see if it would work as well as Ambien for sleeping.
From what I remember it did make me very sleepy….
(I can remember smoking pot on the way to school in high school and basically sleep walking though the day. What was I thinking?)
| 57 |
Killgore Trout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:32:20pm |
re: #17 Cato the Elder
My main issue with Buckley is that he never recognized to child molesting doomsday cult for what they were. He was a very flawed man.
| 58 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:32:30pm |
re: #31 Cato the Elder
Nobody needs to answer my question in #17, by the way. The facts are plain: “gotcha” is good when you disagree with the person getting got, but bad and obnoxious and evil when you disagree with the would-be gotcha getter.
Just thought I’d point that out.
I actually agreed with you on that matter, Cato. Rep Smith’s actions were as legitimate as Maddow’s.
| 59 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:32:38pm |
re: #55 Nimed
Actually, that’s a pretty specious parallel. “Radical Islam” doesn’t have any precise meaning. “Desegregation of lunch counters” has.
If you say so.
| 60 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 9:33:01pm |
re: #48 reine.de.tout
But the old stuff seems to be problematic.
Good grief.
Agreed, the big question is, what is worse: the dispersant or the oil? Both will biodegrade, but how much harm will they cause? As you mentioned, none of this has been tested at such depth so it is really just a guessing game.
| 61 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:33:15pm |
re: #56 webevintage
I’ve already decided that as soon as Arkansas passes a medical pot law (we should get a chance in the next year or so to vote on it) I am getting a RX for it.
Not to smoke, but maybe as a tea or in fudge/brownines .
I’d love to see if it would work as well as Ambien for sleeping.
From what I remember it did make me very sleepy…(I can remember smoking pot on the way to school in high school and basically sleep walking though the day. What was I thinking?)
I took every cooking class in HS. I smoked like a mad man on days we actually cooked.
| 62 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:33:16pm |
re: #57 Killgore Trout
My main issue with Buckley is that he never recognized to child molesting doomsday cult for what they were. He was a very flawed man.
Which cult would that be?
| 63 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:33:46pm |
re: #57 Killgore Trout
My main issue with Buckley is that he never recognized to child molesting doomsday cult for what they were. He was a very flawed man.
What the Hell does that mean?!
| 64 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, May 20, 2010 9:34:02pm |
re: #57 Killgore Trout
But very articulate. I have graetly enjoyed reading him.
| 65 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 9:34:10pm |
re: #57 Killgore Trout
My main issue with Buckley is that he never recognized to child molesting doomsday cult for what they were. He was a very flawed man.
umm,,, huh !?!?!
| 66 |
Racer X Thu, May 20, 2010 9:34:23pm |
re: #52 WindUpBird
Did you ever hear that 911 recording of the cop who seized the pot brownies, then ate them, then tripped so hard he called 911 in a panic? One of the greatest 911 calls ever.
[Video]“I think we’re dying.”
“I think we’re dead.”
“Time is going by really really really really slow.”
I have, in fact, felt exactly like that. Although not on weed.
| 67 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, May 20, 2010 9:34:24pm |
I’m sorry to go way, way, way off topic so soon. I’m stuck in Palmdale for the Tour of California which I’ve been attending this week. Palmdale, in my humble opinion, is a shit hole, so naturally I googled the phase “Palmdale is a shithole” and found this funny rap song by Afroman that confirms my worst observations.
Slightly less off topic, for the first time in my life I regret not having a womb, because I find myself wanting to bear Rachel Maddow’s children. Love her.
| 68 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 9:34:30pm |
re: #52 WindUpBird
Did you ever hear that 911 recording of the cop who seized the pot brownies, then ate them, then tripped so hard he called 911 in a panic? One of the greatest 911 calls ever.
[Video]”I think we’re dying.”“I think we’re dead.”
“Time is going by really really really really slow.”
Oh yeah! I remember that. They played it on Jim Rome (sports radio)
LOL
| 69 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, May 20, 2010 9:35:45pm |
re: #67 goddamnedfrank
If it’s ANY consolation, 29 Palms is worse.
Yes, Palmdale is bad.
Hope you can leave soon!
Could be worse, midsummer it’s hell.
| 70 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, May 20, 2010 9:35:52pm |
Fear and Loathing at Plainview High School (40 miles north of Lubbock):
Controversial yearbook title leads to resignation of yearbook sponsor
A recent publication of an area yearbook has caused the yearbook sponsor Nicole Jackson to resign.
Some Plainview residents and school administrators are upset over the title. Caleb Sims, a Junior at Plainview High School, says the critics are taking the yearbook’s title, “Time Well Wasted,” out of context.
The yearbook’s theme is “Time Well Wasted,” was apparently taken from a song by country music singer Brad Paisley. The cover artwork of a melting digital clock on the front of the yearbook is inspired by surrealist painter Salvador Dali.
While the theme of the yearbook, which is supported by advertising from local businesses, reportedly was meant to be a play on words and another way to say “time well spent” and was not intended to be negative, it didn’t come off that way to many parents, teachers and even other students.
Also, vulgar messages hidden in ads and a display of support for the idiot sponsor.
| 71 |
Locker Thu, May 20, 2010 9:35:58pm |
re: #17 Cato the Elder
“With whom you’ve had many previous issues”, you mean?
Buckley is not the point here. He later revised and said he regretted those views.
On another subject altogether: how is Rachel Maddow’s 20-minute attempt to get a “gotcha” (or, as I would put it, a straight answer) about private property and race out of Rand Paul (an attempt which I consider completely justified given his weasel words) any different as an intellectual ploy from Rep. Smith’s attempt to get a “gotcha” (or, as I would put it, a straight answer) about radical Islam out of Eric Holder?
I don’t know… how is it different?
| 72 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:36:00pm |
re: #68 Stanley Sea
I love Rome. Started listening to him in 1996 or 1997.
| 73 |
reine.de.tout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:36:02pm |
re: #55 Nimed
Actually, that’s a pretty specious parallel. “Radical Islam” doesn’t have any precise meaning. “Desegregation of lunch counters” has.
The planes that were flown, full of innocent people, into buildings in NYC, full of innocent people, were just as real and the effect of the planes crashing into those buildings was just as real, as desegregated lunch counters.
I have to differ with you; in my mind, Radical Islam has a very precise meaning. And it doesn’t include my sweet little Muslim cousin and her hubby; but it does include those who will plot to kill us in horrendous ways.
| 74 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 9:36:22pm |
re: #52 WindUpBird
I’m listening again. Oh this is the funniest thing evah
| 75 |
Killgore Trout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:36:34pm |
re: #45 Dark_Falcon
That’s a fair punishment. They brought drugs to a school event, so they should be kicked out.
Send them to culinary school where they belong….
Marijuana Fuels a New Kitchen Culture
| 76 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 9:36:39pm |
re: #31 Cato the Elder
I’ll enter the ranks >>
Because Maddow’s concern about the CRA is a legitimate issue, whereas the “OMG RADICAL ISLAM” is blatant demagoguery. Or an appeal to emotional reasoning, if you will ;)
| 77 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:36:41pm |
re: #54 reine.de.tout
That’s too funny.
My daughter and I were talking about that very recording just yesterday!
It never stops making me laugh. I’m surprised it hit him so hard but he’s still easily understandable!
| 78 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:37:07pm |
re: #61 Cannadian Club Akbar
I took every cooking class in HS. I smoked like a mad man on days we actually cooked.
You know, everything is just so damn serious these days.
We freak out if kids bring a Tylenol to school and I could have a whole bottle of Pamprin in my purse in school (and take it all day) and not get in trouble.
(not that teens should be doing…DON’t do drugs kids…..)
| 79 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 9:37:30pm |
re: #55 Nimed
Actually, that’s a pretty specious parallel. “Radical Islam” doesn’t have any precise meaning. “Desegregation of lunch counters” has.
You’re right.
Thats why we now have to call it Man Caused Disasters, because THAT has a “precise meaning!”
{sigh}
| 80 |
Olsonist Thu, May 20, 2010 9:37:35pm |
re: #67 goddamnedfrank
Yo Frank. My brother is an electrical engineer and was out of work for all last year. He finally got a job offer: working on drones in Afghanistan. He turned it down and they reoffered him the same job in Kabul West, aka Palmdale.
| 81 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:37:47pm |
re: #76 windsagio
I’ll enter the ranks >>
Because Maddow’s concern about the CRA is a legitimate issue, whereas the “OMG RADICAL ISLAM” is blatant demagoguery. Or an appeal to emotional reasoning, if you will ;)
Shove your Wiki quote where the dingles dangle.
| 82 |
Killgore Trout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:38:06pm |
re: #63 Dark_Falcon
What the Hell does that mean?!
Sorry, I was referring to the Branch Dividians in Waco. Buckley was an apologist for them.
| 83 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:38:31pm |
re: #66 Racer X
I have, in fact, felt exactly like that. Although not on weed.
I felt like that the only time I drank gin.
Gin and red kool aide.
I rode the elevator in my dorm up and down for hours and then slept in the bathroom next to the toilet for the rest of the night.
What was I thinking?
| 84 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:38:35pm |
re: #78 webevintage
You know, everything is just so damn serious these days.
We freak out if kids bring a Tylenol to school and I could have a whole bottle of Pamprin in my purse in school (and take it all day) and not get in trouble.(not that teens should be doing…DON’t do drugs kids…)
I used to drop acid in 5th period. It hit in 6th period. And after 7th period, I would go to my job.
| 85 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, May 20, 2010 9:39:32pm |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
You remember it?
WOW!
| 86 |
Locker Thu, May 20, 2010 9:39:34pm |
re: #35 Cannadian Club Akbar
I was caught with brownies.
/Kidding. I was smoking weed in the theater.
WTF kind of stupid movie theatre is that? Who in there right mind could watch the warriors straight? It’s also weird to see that Where in the World Is Carmen San Diego chick as the DJ.
| 87 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:39:43pm |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
I used to drop acid in 5th period. It hit in 6th period. And after 7th period, I would go to my job.
my school experiences were so boring. I thought I was totally getting away with shit by…are you ready? drawing in the back of the class. STAND BACK
| 88 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:40:46pm |
re: #73 reine.de.tout
The planes that were flown, full of innocent people, into buildings in NYC, full of innocent people, were just as real and the effect of the planes crashing into those buildings was just as real, as desegregated lunch counters.
I have to differ with you; in my mind, Radical Islam has a very precise meaning. And it doesn’t include my sweet little Muslim cousin and her hubby; but it does include those who will plot to kill us in horrendous ways.
Quite Concur.
| 89 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:40:47pm |
re: #87 WindUpBird
my school experiences were so boring. I thought I was totally getting away with shit by…are you ready? drawing in the back of the class. STAND BACK
ANARCHIST!!!!!!
| 90 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 9:40:58pm |
re: #87 WindUpBird
We totally played Apple GS risk in the library… DURING LUNCH!
| 91 |
Locker Thu, May 20, 2010 9:40:58pm |
re: #56 webevintage
I’ve already decided that as soon as Arkansas passes a medical pot law (we should get a chance in the next year or so to vote on it) I am getting a RX for it.
Not to smoke, but maybe as a tea or in fudge/brownines .
I’d love to see if it would work as well as Ambien for sleeping.
From what I remember it did make me very sleepy…(I can remember smoking pot on the way to school in high school and basically sleep walking though the day. What was I thinking?)
Probably the same thing I was thinking, school sucks… I read the whole book in the first day and i can pass this shit even if I’m sleeping walking all day. Lets get baked!
| 92 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:41:28pm |
re: #86 Locker
WTF kind of stupid movie theatre is that? Who in there right mind could watch the warriors straight?
Like seeing The Wall sober….
| 93 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:41:30pm |
re: #82 Killgore Trout
Sorry, I was referring to the Branch Dividians in Waco. Buckley was an apologist for them.
Seriously?
Well…Buckley was a very flawed man, as you say.
Is there a human you can’t say that about? Just wondering.
| 94 |
reine.de.tout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:41:31pm |
re: #87 WindUpBird
my school experiences were so boring. I thought I was totally getting away with shit by…are you ready? drawing in the back of the class. STAND BACK
And me, hiding my library book inside my open textbook, so I could read instead of pay attention.
Wow.
I knew folks like CCA - but sheesh, I never figured any of them would turn out OK.
Looks like I was wrong.
| 95 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, May 20, 2010 9:41:46pm |
re: #69 Floral Giraffe
If it’s ANY consolation, 29 Palms is worse.
Yes, Palmdale is bad.
Hope you can leave soon!
Could be worse, midsummer it’s hell.
I live in Montecito for fuck’s sake (lucked into one of those once in a lifetime rentals, I’m not rich), I grew up in Redmond and Seattle Washington. I’m just not built for this kind of suck. I really expected Bakersfield to be the crap town but was actually pleasantly surprised by it.
G’night, the race starts really early tomorrow, people just can’t wait to leave. I’m sure the organizers are starting to wonder what in God’s name they were thinking.
| 96 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:42:33pm |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
I used to drop acid in 5th period. It hit in 6th period. And after 7th period, I would go to my job.
You win….
I never did anything but smoke pot.
| 97 |
Locker Thu, May 20, 2010 9:42:37pm |
re: #78 webevintage
You know, everything is just so damn serious these days.
We freak out if kids bring a Tylenol to school and I could have a whole bottle of Pamprin in my purse in school (and take it all day) and not get in trouble.(not that teens should be doing…DON’t do drugs kids…)
There is a time and place for everything and it’s called college…
| 98 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:42:42pm |
re: #85 Floral Giraffe
You remember it?
WOW!
I used to sell it.
re: #86 Locker
I hate them
WTF kind of stupid movie theatre is that? Who in there right mind could watch the warriors straight? It’s also weird to see that Where in the World Is Carmen San Diego chick as the DJ.
re: #87 WindUpBird
Dork.
HEH!!
I fucked up this post.
my school experiences were so boring. I thought I was totally getting away with shit by…are you ready? drawing in the back of the class. STAND BACK
| 99 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:43:10pm |
re: #82 Killgore Trout
Sorry, I was referring to the Branch Dividians in Waco. Buckley was an apologist for them.
How so?
| 100 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:45:14pm |
re: #98 Cannadian Club Akbar
I forgot the sarc tag for WUB. Sorry.
/
| 101 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 9:45:40pm |
re: #52 WindUpBird
Gosh, what an awkward phone call to have to explain to one’s captain and the media.
| 102 |
reine.de.tout Thu, May 20, 2010 9:45:42pm |
| 103 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 9:47:12pm |
re: #73 reine.de.tout
The planes that were flown, full of innocent people, into buildings in NYC, full of innocent people, were just as real and the effect of the planes crashing into those buildings was just as real, as desegregated lunch counters.
I have to differ with you; in my mind, Radical Islam has a very precise meaning. And it doesn’t include my sweet little Muslim cousin and her hubby; but it does include those who will plot to kill us in horrendous ways.
But that’s the problem. No actual specific actions or measures were being discussed in the question, it was all semantics. If by “radical Islam” you mean “people of Muslim faith who plot to kill civilians”, nobody would disagree with you. The problem is that the expression is vague enough that it can mean very different things to different people. Many religions denominations that are considered radical but don’t involve anything like that.
| 104 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, May 20, 2010 9:50:21pm |
re: #67 goddamnedfrank
I’m sorry to go way, way, way off topic so soon. I’m stuck in Palmdale for the Tour of California which I’ve been attending this week. Palmdale, in my humble opinion, is a shit hole, so naturally I googled the phase “Palmdale is a shithole” and found this funny rap song by Afroman that confirms my worst observations.
[Video]Slightly less off topic, for the first time in my life I regret not having a womb, because I find myself wanting to bear Rachel Maddow’s children. Love her.
Palmdale considers itself the foremost aerospace city in the world, since it is the home of the famed Lockheed Skunk Works and a huge array of other aerospace businesses centered on Air Force Plant 42. I worked there some years ago, when Palmdale was much smaller than it is now. It was an honor to be employed there but I chose to live almost 50 miles away in the deep desert rather than put up with the shithole aspects of the town itself. It seemed to be populated exclusively by fast food employees, real estate crooks, sleazy car dealers, and weird street preachers.
| 105 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:50:26pm |
re: #87 WindUpBird
my school experiences were so boring. I thought I was totally getting away with shit by…are you ready? drawing in the back of the class. STAND BACK
Most of my problems in school involved my trying to stop assholes who made a sport out of tormenting me. One of them was especially bad: Despite his attacks, in Junior year I helped him pass the Constitution Test and avoid summer school. After we got back to school to start Senior year, he was back at badgering me again. Pure shithead, that guy.
| 106 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 9:50:38pm |
re: #79 sattv4u2
You’re right.
Thats why we now have to call it Man Caused Disasters, because THAT has a “precise meaning!”
{sigh}
Boy, you sure love to discuss labels, don’t you?
| 107 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, May 20, 2010 9:51:09pm |
All right kiddies, I am out. Luck be upon you.
| 108 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, May 20, 2010 9:51:12pm |
re: #95 goddamnedfrank
Montecito is lovely.
Have you been to LotusLand?
lotusland.org
KT, it’s AMAZING!
You would like it.
| 109 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, May 20, 2010 9:52:14pm |
re: #98 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hee Hee.
Shared an apartment with a “seller”.
Good times.
Glad they’re over.
Wouldn’t do it again.
| 110 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 9:52:19pm |
re: #106 Nimed
Boy, you sure love to discuss labels, don’t you?
umm,,,errr,, thats what the discussion was about
It’s the “label” Holder twisted himself into a pretzel to avoid saying
| 111 |
freetoken Thu, May 20, 2010 9:52:26pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
… populated exclusively by fast food employees, real estate crooks, sleazy car dealers, and weird street preachers.
Sounds like a … Tea Party.
| 112 |
Firstinla Thu, May 20, 2010 9:53:54pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
If you think Palmdale is the suck, drive about 35 miles to the north and experience the wonders of Mojave. Now that is a place that sucks.
| 113 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:54:49pm |
re: #94 reine.de.tout
And me, hiding my library book inside my open textbook, so I could read instead of pay attention.
Wow.
I knew folks like CCA - but sheesh, I never figured any of them would turn out OK.
Looks like I was wrong.
A couple of my friends who were stoner acid freaks in high school, they’re now wizard IT guys and software developers, one works for Microsoft. They were sort of the outsider-thinker-druggie types :D
| 114 |
Locker Thu, May 20, 2010 9:55:27pm |
re: #113 WindUpBird
A couple of my friends who were stoner acid freaks in high school, they’re now wizard IT guys and software developers, one works for Microsoft. They were sort of the outsider-thinker-druggie types :D
No wonder I ended up as a programmer…
| 115 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 9:55:30pm |
re: #67 goddamnedfrank
I’m sorry to go way, way, way off topic so soon. I’m stuck in Palmdale for the Tour of California which I’ve been attending this week. Palmdale, in my humble opinion, is a shit hole, so naturally I googled the phase “Palmdale is a shithole” and found this funny rap song by Afroman that confirms my worst observations.
[Video]Slightly less off topic, for the first time in my life I regret not having a womb, because I find myself wanting to bear Rachel Maddow’s children. Love her.
Why it looks beautiful!
| 116 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:55:33pm |
re: #111 freetoken
Sounds like a … Tea Party.
No, for that it needs a selection of Stormfront members and survivalists with guns.
| 117 |
webevintage Thu, May 20, 2010 9:55:54pm |
I’m outa here but will leave you with some Queen:
| 118 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 9:56:00pm |
re: #113 WindUpBird
Its interesting, I’m trying to think of any HS people I knew that did drugs then that ended up as total wastoids.
Only one I can think of is “Stubby”.
| 119 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:56:23pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
Most of my problems in school involved my trying to stop assholes who made a sport out of tormenting me. One of them was especially bad: Despite his attacks, in Junior year I helped him pass the Constitution Test and avoid summer school. After we got back to school to start Senior year, he was back at badgering me again. Pure shithead, that guy.
ugh, that’s awful :( I had a LOT of problems with people like that in jr. high, but by high school I was pretty much only in classes with other bookish nerd types, didn’t cross paths with the meatheads hardly at all.
| 120 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:56:56pm |
re: #118 windsagio
Its interesting, I’m trying to think of any HS people I knew that did drugs then that ended up as total wastoids.
Only one I can think of is “Stubby”.
I have some I knew who I am pretty sure did, but I didn’t have much in common with them besides a love of metal :D
| 121 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 9:57:15pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
re: #112 Firstinla
If you think Palmdale is the suck, drive about 35 miles to the north and experience the wonders of Mojave. Now that is a place that sucks.
heh ,, I can outdo you both
We have a facility in Perris. The (very long dirt) road leading to it has been known to be a dumping ground for ,, well,, dead bodies
| 122 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 9:57:32pm |
re: #110 sattv4u2
umm,,,errr,, thats what the discussion was about
It’s the “label” Holder twisted himself into a pretzel to avoid saying
Sigh. The fact that the discussion was about labels (as opposed to policy) is the problem. Maddow’s questions were about Rand Paul’s stance on a piece of legislation, which is a substantive issue. Smith’s weren’t.
| 123 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, May 20, 2010 9:58:12pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
Btw, my employment at Palmdale involved a few trips to Las Vegas and the alleged Holy of Holies of aerospace, the Groom Lake Test Facility, known to song and legend as Area 51. The one definite, solemnly-sworn, word-of-honor-on-record, no-shit-for-real thing I can tell you about it is also the one most people refuse to believe: There are no ETs or ET artifacts there.
It is a fact of life that governments have secrets and some of these have to be kept well out of view.
According to recent media reports, not much of anything does go on there these days anyway.
| 124 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 9:59:17pm |
re: #113 WindUpBird
A couple of my friends who were stoner acid freaks in high school, they’re now wizard IT guys and software developers, one works for Microsoft. They were sort of the outsider-thinker-druggie types :D
Well, Winston Churchill is my favorite example of a serious, committed drug addict who moved and shook the world for good, and also for good, so anyone who wags fingers at kids experimenting with pot or LSD and says “you’ll never amount to anything” automatically gets a big shrug from me, and a notional “I’m an asshole” tattoo on his forehead.
| 125 |
Tiny alien kittens are watching you Thu, May 20, 2010 9:59:17pm |
OT (kinda): Ahh, the cogent and thoughtful discourse by posters to be found over at the shrieking harpie’s site is truly edifying…
OBAMA AVOIDS BIBLE VERSES ! Here are some Bible verses that Pres. Obama avoids: Proverbs 19:10 (NIV): “It is not fitting for a fool to live in luxury - how much worse for a slave to rule over princes!” Also Proverbs 30:22 (NIV) which says that the earth cannot bear up under “a servant who becomes king.” And Ecclesiastes 5:2-3 (KJV) advises: “let thy words be few…a fool’s voice is known by multitude of words.” Although Obama is not descended from slaves, he may feel that he’s destined to become a black-slavery avenger. Or maybe an enslaver of all free citizens!
With people like this backing the Tea Party and Luap Dnar how can he possibly lose?
/
| 126 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 9:59:32pm |
re: #119 WindUpBird
ugh, that’s awful :( I had a LOT of problems with people like that in jr. high, but by high school I was pretty much only in classes with other bookish nerd types, didn’t cross paths with the meatheads hardly at all.
Actually, I was never on bad terms with the jocks, two of whom were semi-friends of mine. The jerks were otherwise fairly ordinary. I met one of them years later, after he’d stopped being a jerk. He and I patched things up, though he wasn’t the one I mentioned earlier.
| 127 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:59:32pm |
re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar
I forgot the sarc tag for WUB. Sorry.
/
hahah oh, I was a dork! I was the kid who was too nerdy for the metal dirtbags, and too dirtbag for the type-A-very-serious-students in the AP classes I took. I found all the other outsider nerds in high school, and then we just hung out in the computer room during lunch :D
| 128 |
Firstinla Thu, May 20, 2010 9:59:43pm |
re: #123 Shiplord Kirel
Isn’t Groom Lake where the AF tested the stealth planes?
| 129 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 9:59:49pm |
re: #122 Nimed
Sigh. The fact that the discussion was about labels (as opposed to policy) is the problem. Maddow’s questions were about Rand Paul’s stance on a piece of legislation, which is a substantive issue. Smith’s weren’t.
You’d think this would be easy to understand!
| 130 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:00:25pm |
re: #122 Nimed
Sigh. The fact that the discussion was about labels (as opposed to policy) is the problem. Maddow’s questions were about Rand Paul’s stance on a piece of legislation, which is a substantive issue. Smith’s weren’t.
Attempting to find out what the Justice Departments views on attacks on America by Radical Islamists/ Man Caused Disasterists/ Collicky Amish is NOT a “substantive issue”??
Mmmmkkkaaayyy !
| 131 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:01:10pm |
re: #112 Firstinla
If you think Palmdale is the suck, drive about 35 miles to the north and experience the wonders of Mojave. Now that is a place that sucks.
Mojave is a town? I thought it was a desert.
Didn’t find much suckage there in the desert last winter.
| 132 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, May 20, 2010 10:01:11pm |
re: #124 Cato the Elder
Nice to “see’ you, Dear Old Roman.
Hope you & Haku are well.
| 133 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, May 20, 2010 10:01:43pm |
re: #112 Firstinla
If you think Palmdale is the suck, drive about 35 miles to the north and experience the wonders of Mojave. Now that is a place that sucks.
Very, very famliar with it. I lived close enough that I bought all my old Chevy parts at a junkyard there.
| 134 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:01:59pm |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
Mojave is a town? I thought it was a desert.
Didn’t find much suckage there in the desert last winter.
You didn’t pay “her” enough!
//
| 135 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:03:02pm |
re: #125 ausador
OT (kinda): Ahh, the cogent and thoughtful discourse by posters to be found over at the shrieking harpie’s site is truly edifying…
With people like this backing the Tea Party and Luap Dnar how can he possibly lose?
/
OH NOES!!1 OBAMA WANTS TO ENSLAVE US ALL!!!1
So stupid. I wonder what voice in her head inspired this turd of a post by her.
| 136 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:03:39pm |
| 137 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:04:03pm |
| 138 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:04:15pm |
re: #130 sattv4u2
Attempting to find out what the Justice Departments views on attacks on America by Radical Islamists/ Man Caused Disasterists/ Collicky Amish is NOT a “substantive issue”??
Mmmmkkkaaayyy !
Attempting to ‘find out what the Justice Department’s views on attacks by America by Radical Islamists’ are is damn near a mortal insult to the Justice Department.
Precisely what could anyone imagine those views to be, especially in the wake of a 56-hour manhunt in which agencies working in close cooperation took down a terrorist attempting to flee the country?
| 139 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:05:10pm |
re: #126 Dark_Falcon
Actually, I was never on bad terms with the jocks, two of whom were semi-friends of mine. The jerks were otherwise fairly ordinary. I met one of them years later, after he’d stopped being a jerk. He and I patched things up, though he wasn’t the one I mentioned earlier.
heh, by meathead I meant more big-thuggish-idiot :D Just big assholes who hit their growth spurt early.
| 140 |
Firstinla Thu, May 20, 2010 10:05:34pm |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
Mojave is home to Burt Rutan, he of the “fly around the world without refueling” fame. It is also home to the White Knight group that expects to take tourists on sub-orbital flights sometime next year. Mojave is where the wind blows 24/7 at galeforce speeds. I spent six months there on assignment and departed with firm resolution to never return.
| 141 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:05:56pm |
re: #122 Nimed
Sigh. The fact that the discussion was about labels (as opposed to policy) is the problem. Maddow’s questions were about Rand Paul’s stance on a piece of legislation, which is a substantive issue. Smith’s weren’t.
Perhaps not. But it still escapes me why Holder couldn’t have just said “yes, radical Islam certainly plays a role in many of these terrorist attempts” when asked for a plain up-or-down opinion on the matter rather than tying himself into a balloon weasel trying to be all inoffensive and PC about it.
| 142 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:06:24pm |
re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist
Attempting to ‘find out what the Justice Department’s views on attacks by America by Radical Islamists’ are is damn near a mortal insult to the Justice Department.
Precisely what could anyone imagine those views to be, especially in the wake of a 56-hour manhunt in which agencies working in close cooperation took down a terrorist attempting to flee the country?
But no! We must stop those employed by the Justice Department including the Attorney General, Eric Holder to debate the semantics! He who use the strongest word wins! Forget about actual police work. It’s all about semantics.
//
| 143 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:06:37pm |
re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist
Attempting to ‘find out what the Justice Department’s views on attacks by America by Radical Islamists’ are is damn near a mortal insult to the Justice Department.
Precisely what could anyone imagine those views to be, especially in the wake of a 56-hour manhunt in which agencies working in close cooperation took down a terrorist attempting to flee the country?
He’s referring to Holder’s seeming unwillingness in discuss the ideological dimensions of the current war.
| 144 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:07:53pm |
re: #141 Cato the Elder
I might suggest it’s because using that kind of language can make things worse.
We can’t give the the impression that we’re fighting ‘Islam’, and the term radical would be easy enough to miss (intentionally or otherwise).
| 145 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:07:58pm |
re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist
Attempting to ‘find out what the Justice Department’s views on attacks by America by Radical Islamists’ are is damn near a mortal insult to the Justice Department.
Precisely what could anyone imagine those views to be, especially in the wake of a 56-hour manhunt in which agencies working in close cooperation took down a terrorist attempting to flee the country?
That they did their job, and did it magnificently
Yet in that Holder couldn’t even bring himself to consider the motivation could have been radical elements in Islam, couldmn’t bring himself to utter the phrase, in that Napolitano has shunned the term in favor of the vanilla “man caused disaster”
| 146 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:08:01pm |
re: #139 WindUpBird
heh, by meathead I meant more big-thuggish-idiot :D Just big assholes who hit their growth spurt early.
That was never my issue. I was too big to beat up. They just taunted and teased.
| 147 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:08:21pm |
re: #145 sattv4u2
That they did their job, and did it magnificently
Yet in that Holder couldn’t even bring himself to consider the motivation could have been radical elements in Islam, couldmn’t bring himself to utter the phrase, in that Napolitano has shunned the term in favor of the vanilla “man caused disaster”
Who cares.
| 148 |
Olsonist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:08:25pm |
re: #143 Dark_Falcon
He’s referring to Holder’s seeming unwillingness in discuss the ideological dimensions of the current war.
Yes, and SFZ is referring to Holder’s actual work in the real dimensions of the current war.
| 149 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, May 20, 2010 10:08:28pm |
re: #128 Firstinla
Isn’t Groom Lake where the AF tested the stealth planes?
Er, that is widely reported, yes.
| 150 |
teleskiguy Thu, May 20, 2010 10:09:04pm |
In February, Charles wrote
Theocrat Mike Huckabee has blasted the CPAC conference, because of the domination by Ron Paul libertarians.This is where the tea party coalition begins to fall apart, because religious right conservatives like Huckabee are diametrically opposed to the laissez faire libertarian social philosophy.
Rand Paul beat out Trey Grayson in the primary, a pretty middle-of-the-road conservative with a number of years in public service for the state of Kentucky. The teabaggers coalition was strong in this case. Republican voters in Kentucky seemed to like what Luap Dnar was saying about runaway debt and bloated intrusive government. Rich Lowry said in his column today that Luap Dnar might win (fuck, I hope not!).
We saner folk do need to expose this crap, this intellectual posturing trying to justify racism is preposterous. Even William F. Buckley Jr. knew he was wrong and changed his views. Kudos to Ms. Maddow for getting to the bottom of this.
On another note, more interviews and debate like what we’ve been seeing on The Rachel Maddow Show the last couple of nights are good for cable news. We need more like this.
| 151 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:09:20pm |
re: #143 Dark_Falcon
He’s referring to Holder’s seeming unwillingness in discuss the ideological dimensions of the current war.
And open himself to further semantic wrangling and the parsing of his language down to the molecular level for purposes of smearing him on right wing pundits and radio hosts. :P
| 152 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:09:44pm |
re: #144 windsagio
I might suggest it’s because using that kind of language can make things worse.
We can’t give the the impression that we’re fighting ‘Islam’, and the term radical would be easy enough to miss (intentionally or otherwise).
Yeah ,,we would’t want to call a child molester a child molester. It might piss off the other child molesters!
| 153 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:09:49pm |
re: #151 WindUpBird
Or in Saudi/Iran/Afghanistan, for that matter >
| 154 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:09:56pm |
re: #146 Dark_Falcon
That was never my issue. I was too big to beat up. They just taunted and teased.
I was 135 pounds in high school. I was even less in jr. high!
| 155 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:09:57pm |
Ah, well. Round and round the carousel rolls. Look, there’s a tiger! And a pumpkin! And something very much like a swan!
Und dann und wann ein weißer Elephant.
Good night all.
| 156 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:10:03pm |
re: #151 WindUpBird
And open himself to further semantic wrangling and the parsing of his language down to the molecular level for purposes of smearing him on right wing pundits and radio hosts. :P
We must appease the Michele Malkins of this nation!
//
| 157 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:10:14pm |
re: #152 sattv4u2
Oh boy, here come the pedophile comparisons >>
| 158 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:10:46pm |
re: #157 windsagio
Oh boy, here come the pedophile comparisons >>
Always!
There should be a Godwin’s Law for that.
| 159 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:11:00pm |
re: #157 windsagio
Oh boy, here come the pedophile comparisons >>
| 160 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:11:17pm |
re: #157 windsagio
Oh boy, here come the pedophile comparisons >>
| 161 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:11:32pm |
re: #148 Olsonist
Yes, and SFZ is referring to Holder’s actual work in the real dimensions of the current war.
But the police work requires understanding of the ideological aspects of this war. The war cannot be separated from the Islamist ideology of Jihad abroad and repression at home. It’s a totalitarian ideology and its teachings drive the war.
| 162 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:12:14pm |
re: #157 windsagio
Oh boy, here come the pedophile comparisons >>
Yeah ,,we would’t want to call a child molester BANK ROBBER a child molester BANK ROBBER. It might piss off the other child molesters BANK ROBBERS!
HAPPY!?!?
| 163 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:12:18pm |
re: #152 sattv4u2
Yeah ,,we would’t want to call a child molester a child molester. It might piss off the other child molesters!
Yeah, but if it involves the Catholic Church make sure you don’t preface that with Priest. Not PC at all.
| 164 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, May 20, 2010 10:13:24pm |
re: #108 Floral Giraffe
Montecito is lovely.
Have you been to LotusLand?
[Link: www.lotusland.org…]KT, it’s AMAZING!
You would like it.
Yep. LotusLand is awesome. I’m lucky enough to be within walking distance of the Vedanta Temple, which is pretty cool too.
re: #80 Olsonist
Yo Frank. My brother is an electrical engineer and was out of work for all last year. He finally got a job offer: working on drones in Afghanistan. He turned it down and they reoffered him the same job in Kabul West, aka Palmdale.
Nice, I think the winner of tomorrows stage gets a bulletproof vest as the preem.
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
Palmdale considers itself the foremost aerospace city in the world, since it is the home of the famed Lockheed Skunk Works and a huge array of other aerospace businesses centered on Air Force Plant 42. I worked there some years ago, when Palmdale was much smaller than it is now. It was an honor to be employed there but I chose to live almost 50 miles away in the deep desert rather than put up with the shithole aspects of the town itself. It seemed to be populated exclusively by fast food employees, real estate crooks, sleazy car dealers, and weird street preachers.
I think this place was cursed by indians, which is also my current explanation for Lompoc.
G’night lizards, mean it this time.
| 165 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:13:27pm |
re: #163 Gus 802
Yeah, but if it involves the Catholic Church make sure you don’t preface that with Priest. Not PC at all.
Yeah ,,we would’t want to call a child molesterPEDOPHILE PRIEST a child molester PEDOPHILE PREIST. It might piss off the other child molestersPEDOPHILE PRIESTS!
HAPPY??
| 167 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:13:50pm |
re: #162 sattv4u2
Not too much, because its still a terribly analogy. Better tho’.
What was with those aborted posts up above? Tag trouble?
| 168 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:13:51pm |
re: #144 windsagio
I might suggest it’s because using that kind of language can make things worse.
We can’t give the the impression that we’re fighting ‘Islam’, and the term radical would be easy enough to miss (intentionally or otherwise).
Meh.
Enough Islamic radicals have declared war on us infidels that I don’t think it matters.
But if you want to be a prancing pusillanimous pussyfooter, why, that’s what freedoms all about!
| 169 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:14:12pm |
re: #167 windsagio
Not too much, because its still a terribly analogy. Better tho’.
What was with those aborted posts up above? Tag trouble?
FAT THUMBED
| 170 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:14:45pm |
re: #143 Dark_Falcon
He’s referring to Holder’s seeming unwillingness in discuss the ideological dimensions of the current war.
I understand that, I simply don’t agree.
I also don’t remember extended discussion of whether Gonzales or Mukasey said the right magic words or not.
The assumption here is that Holder needs to pass some sort of verbal litmus test to be considered sufficiently ‘serious’ about terrorism.
I am far more interested in seeing what he can do.
| 171 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:14:54pm |
| 172 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:15:06pm |
| 173 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 10:15:19pm |
re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist
Attempting to ‘find out what the Justice Department’s views on attacks by America by Radical Islamists’ are is damn near a mortal insult to the Justice Department.
Precisely what could anyone imagine those views to be, especially in the wake of a 56-hour manhunt in which agencies working in close cooperation took down a terrorist attempting to flee the country?
It’s doubting of America. It really is.
| 174 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:15:37pm |
re: #172 Cato the Elder
Which is wonderfully relevant. Thanks >
| 175 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:16:07pm |
It occurs to me there might be diplomatic and international law enforcement reasons why the Justice Dept want to go ARGH RADICAL ISLAM all the time, that such rhetoric might harm our standing with nations that are giving us valuable intelligence with large muslim populations.
Just a thought!
| 176 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:16:36pm |
re: #145 sattv4u2
That they did their job, and did it magnificently
Yet in that Holder couldn’t even bring himself to consider the motivation could have been radical elements in Islam, couldmn’t bring himself to utter the phrase, in that Napolitano has shunned the term in favor of the vanilla “man caused disaster”
I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘couldn’t even bring himself to consider’. He knows the score. They have a script they try to stick to for these occasions. It’s not his job to throw keywords around.
Gimme an example. What’s an example of an AG saying the right words?
| 177 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:17:20pm |
| 178 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:17:36pm |
re: #152 sattv4u2
Yeah ,,we would’t want to call a child molester a child molester. It might piss off the other child molesters!
There are no child molesters we need credibility with. There are Muslims we need credibility with.
| 179 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 10:17:40pm |
re: #156 Gus 802
We must appease the Michele Malkins of this nation!
//
That neatly encapsulates it. No matter what he does, Holder has to use the preferred terminology of wingnuts. And he better be very PC about it!
| 180 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:17:42pm |
Bring up a week old axe to grind — mission accomplished.
| 181 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:18:01pm |
re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist
I understand that, I simply don’t agree.
I also don’t remember extended discussion of whether Gonzales or Mukasey said the right magic words or not.
The assumption here is that Holder needs to pass some sort of verbal litmus test to be considered sufficiently ‘serious’ about terrorism.
I am far more interested in seeing what he can do.
Holder is a liberal who previously did not support effective anti-terror action. Conservative suspicion of him is decently founded.
| 182 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:18:14pm |
re: #161 Dark_Falcon
But the police work requires understanding of the ideological aspects of this war. The war cannot be separated from the Islamist ideology of Jihad abroad and repression at home. It’s a totalitarian ideology and its teachings drive the war.
I am quite sure that Eric Holder knows that far better than most of us.
| 183 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:18:19pm |
It’s MegaSnark Versus GiantOctopus all up in this
| 185 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:19:14pm |
re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist
There are no child molesters we need credibility with. There are Muslims we need credibility with.
I’d hate to think the AG would use all the resources at his disposal!
| 186 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:19:19pm |
re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist
The other thing that occurs:
They’re so full of hate for islam that they have to go out of their way to compare its adherents to the worst thing they can think of.
Thus, Child Molesters.
| 187 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:19:31pm |
re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist
There are no child molesters we need credibility with. There are Muslims we need credibility with.
But there are no RADICAL Muslims we need it with
| 188 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:19:39pm |
re: #185 WindUpBird
Pff you can’t get information out of those savages anyways, not without torture!
| 189 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:19:47pm |
re: #174 windsagio
Which is wonderfully relevant. Thanks >
It is for all the girl children being “married” to and sexually abused by old bastards in Muslim countries with the full sanction of the Koran and the shariah, I should think.
| 190 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 10:19:55pm |
re: #144 windsagio
…
We can’t give the the impression that we’re fighting ‘Islam’, …
Yes, mustn’t let them think were cross with them or suspicious at all on account of all the terrorism. How about we call it: engaging with Islam?
The Predator Drone attacks can be renamed as well: ‘love kisses not meaning to offend’.
| 191 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:20:01pm |
re: #179 Nimed
That neatly encapsulates it. No matter what he does, Holder has to use the preferred terminology of wingnuts. And he better be very PC about it!
Yep. The PC of the alleged un-PC. Ironic isn’t it?
| 192 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:20:27pm |
re: #187 sattv4u2
Of course him saying htat might have an impact in radicalizing people, its not like people are born radical.
| 193 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:20:40pm |
re: #172 Cato the Elder
Mahomet was a pedophile.
Actually, I doubt it. I realize this is an article of faith in some circles, but the evidence is fairly scant on the ground.
All his wives but Aisha appear to have been grown women, many widowed, when he married them. She appears to have been a political marriage, and not inappropriately young to marry by the admittedly scanty standards of the early medieval world.
| 194 |
swamprat Thu, May 20, 2010 10:21:18pm |
Hard to disagree with Maddog in this episode. (Ayn) Rand Pauls’ defense of institutionalized bigotry was nonsensical.
| 195 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:21:58pm |
re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist
She appears to have been a political marriage, and not inappropriately young to marry by the admittedly scanty standards of the early medieval world.
Shh! You can’t mention that kind of thing!
You can’t mitigate the pure evil that was Muhammad one bit!
| 196 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:22:24pm |
re: #192 windsagio
Of course him saying htat might have an impact in radicalizing people, its not like people are born radical.
I see
So as a Christian, when someone points out that there are RADICAL Christians, that may impact me into becoming a Radical Christian!
Sorry ,, I think not, because as a christian I KNOW there are ‘radical christians” and I damn them to hell
| 197 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:22:30pm |
re: #181 Dark_Falcon
Holder is a liberal who previously did not support effective anti-terror action. Conservative suspicion of him is decently founded.
So this is another case of ‘it’s not what you get done, it’s how strongly we believe you feel about it’? OK.
| 198 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:23:18pm |
re: #186 windsagio
The other thing that occurs:
They’re so full of hate for islam that they have to go out of their way to compare its adherents to the worst thing they can think of.
Thus, Child Molesters.
That’s just not creative enough. Come on, guys! Overfiend!
| 199 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:23:42pm |
re: #187 sattv4u2
But there are no RADICAL Muslims we need it with
Alas, non-radicals don’t always classify themselves like that. Witness the fury of folks who discovered that the DHS was looking at the activities of radical rightists.
| 200 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:23:48pm |
re: #192 windsagio
Of course him saying htat might have an impact in radicalizing people, its not like people are born radical.
Except Tony Hawk. He was born radical.
| 201 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 10:24:10pm |
re: #177 Cato the Elder
I don’t copy other peoples alliterations.
How about “dimbulb denialist dhimmi”? Does that describe you better?
wtf Cato?
| 202 |
Olsonist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:24:51pm |
re: #181 Dark_Falcon
Holder is a liberal who previously did not support effective anti-terror action. Conservative suspicion of him is decently founded.
Yes, Holder is a liberal who led an effective anti-terror action. Shall we compare him to Alberto Gonzalez, a man of such grand ineptitude that he can barely hold a job after being Attorney General.
| 203 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:24:51pm |
re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist
Actually, I doubt it. I realize this is an article of faith in some circles, but the evidence is fairly scant on the ground.
All his wives but Aisha appear to have been grown women, many widowed, when he married them. She appears to have been a political marriage, and not inappropriately young to marry by the admittedly scanty standards of the early medieval world.
Not exactly the point, is it?
His sacred example as the “perfect man” is used to justify marrying girls as young as Aisha to fat old sheiks of Mahomet’s age today, in the real world, with the full justification of Koran, hadith and shariah.
So I think in fairness to those girls it’s still legitimate to raise the point.
| 205 |
freetoken Thu, May 20, 2010 10:24:53pm |
re: #194 swamprat
Hard to disagree with Maddog in this episode. (Ayn) Rand Pauls’ defense of institutionalized bigotry was nonsensical.
If it is so hard, why is the nut-o-sphere full of defense of Luap Dnar?
| 206 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:24:56pm |
| 207 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:25:09pm |
re: #189 Cato the Elder
It is for all the girl children being “married” to and sexually abused by old bastards in Muslim countries with the full sanction of the Koran and the shariah, I should think.
1. There are plenty of cultures that sanction child marriage and the sexual exploitation of little girls that are not Muslim.
2. We’ve now moved on to the general objections to Islam part of the evening, haven’t we? Eric Holder is not in a position to do much about the age of consent in Yemen.
| 208 |
swamprat Thu, May 20, 2010 10:25:38pm |
re: #198 WindUpBird
That’s just not creative enough. Come on, guys! Overfiend!
Uh,…NAZI, LEPEROUS, child molesters?
| 209 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:25:44pm |
| 210 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 10:25:53pm |
re: #186 windsagio
The other thing that occurs:
They’re so full of hate for islam that they have to go out of their way to compare its adherents to the worst thing they can think of.
Thus, Child Molesters.
Another good thing about discussing if “radical Islam” is an appropriate phrase is that it gives you the illusion of discussing something important without you actually having to know anything about the subject. Outrage ready for consumption for the ignorant and the lazy.
| 211 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:26:33pm |
re: #209 WindUpBird
Its irrational and crazy is what it is >>
| 212 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:26:42pm |
| 213 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:26:47pm |
re: #208 swamprat
Uh,…NAZI, LEPEROUS, child molesters?
Betentacled rape goblin child molestors that can travel through time and space
| 214 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:27:30pm |
re: #213 WindUpBird
Man, from the response, you think we were the only people to hit the right window for that on here?
| 215 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 10:27:36pm |
re: #196 sattv4u2
I see
So as a Christian, when someone points out that there are RADICAL Christians, that may impact me into becoming a Radical Christian!
Sorry ,, I think not, because as a christian I KNOW there are ‘radical christians” and I damn them to hell
The problem being, of course, that there’s plenty of Christian groups are considered radical and don’t harm a fly.
| 216 |
swamprat Thu, May 20, 2010 10:27:39pm |
re: #213 WindUpBird
Betentacled rape goblin child molestors that can travel through time and space
With bad BO
| 217 |
sagehen Thu, May 20, 2010 10:28:11pm |
re: #67 goddamnedfrank
I’m sorry to go way, way, way off topic so soon. I’m stuck in Palmdale for the Tour of California which I’ve been attending this week. Palmdale, in my humble opinion, is a shit hole, so naturally I googled the phase “Palmdale is a shithole” and found this funny rap song by Afroman that confirms my worst observations.
[Video]Slightly less off topic, for the first time in my life I regret not having a womb, because I find myself wanting to bear Rachel Maddow’s children. Love her.
Palmdale produced Frank Zappa, and has thus justified its existence.
| 218 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:28:12pm |
re: #214 windsagio
Man, from the response, you think we were the only people to hit the right window for that on here?
You mean that we know what Urutsukidoji is?
| 219 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 10:28:16pm |
| 220 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:28:22pm |
| 221 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:28:32pm |
re: #201 Stanley Sea
Don’t worry about it, he’s just a h8ter.
| 222 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:28:59pm |
re: #218 WindUpBird
yeah something like that :D
Quick poll: Does anyone else know wtf WUB is talking about ?
| 223 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:29:21pm |
Sometimes, I feel like the only thing you can’t freely criticize here anymore is Islam, radical, moderate, traditional, modern, Sunni, Shiite, Arab or Indonesian or American.
Whatever. Got books to read.
| 224 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 10:29:28pm |
Islam is peace and Mohammad is the perfect bloke. Don’t let all the bombings and beheadings fool you.
| 225 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:29:40pm |
re: #219 Stanley Sea
I swear. I just don’t get it.
It’s a common insult used by internet “anti-Jihadists” against those that don’t ascribe to their world view. It’s also exclusively used by non-Muslims in this case.
| 226 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:30:41pm |
re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist
So this is another case of ‘it’s not what you get done, it’s how strongly we believe you feel about it’? OK.
Call it a test of faith, if you like. I want to make sure that the people running the fight have a proper commitment to it. But I also want Holder wounded to reduce Obama’s reputation and political capital. This is to create an atmosphere conducive to GOP wins in November.
| 227 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 10:30:41pm |
re: #212 Gus 802
A non-Mulsim living under Sharia law.
No, really? I’ve heard it thrown around for so many people, none of whom are living under that terrifying Sharia law.
Oh wow.
| 228 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:30:56pm |
re: #217 sagehen
Palmdale produced Frank Zappa, and has thus justified its existence.
Excuse me, but Baltimore has that honor.
| 229 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:31:09pm |
re: #224 Bagua
Oh c’mon Bagua, any variation on ‘Religion of Peace’ is austomatically dumb.
Its not ironic, and its not funny :P
| 230 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:31:36pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
I just want Holder to do a good job
| 231 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:31:42pm |
re: #203 Cato the Elder
Not exactly the point, is it?
His sacred example as the “perfect man” is used to justify marrying girls as young as Aisha to fat old sheiks of Mahomet’s age today, in the real world, with the full justification of Koran, hadith and shariah.
So I think in fairness to those girls it’s still legitimate to raise the point.
I’ll repeat—Muslims may use that example as an excuse to continue traditional abuse of little girls, but Islam is hardly unique among the cultures of the world in treating little girls so. Nor do I kid myself that child marriages would be banned throughout Islam if Mohammed had only married girls over twenty-five.
People are going to start to say I have something against Hindus, but child marriages in that culture go back a lot farther than Islam. Does it suck? Yes, very much. Should we do what we can to help? Absolutely. But historically speaking, I’m still going to guess that Mohammed wasn’t a pedophile in any clinical sense. The legal sense is irrelevent, on account of the the dude’s been dead quite a long time.
| 232 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:32:32pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
But I also want Holder wounded to reduce Obama’s reputation and political capital.
Christ on a crutch, really?
You’re willing to hurt the country, or even trump up random crap, just to hurt Obama?
That’s terrible man.
| 233 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:32:42pm |
re: #215 Nimed
The problem being, of course, that there’s plenty of Christian groups are considered radical and don’t harm a fly.
You sound disappointed !
Now lets identify the radical muslim groups that won’t harm a fly, that is, if we can call them radical islamist groups!
| 234 |
swamprat Thu, May 20, 2010 10:32:50pm |
re: #195 windsagio
Shh! You can’t mention that kind of thing!
You can’t mitigate the pure evil that was Muhammad one bit!
So Muhammad was from the Appalachians?
| 235 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 10:33:09pm |
re: #229 windsagio
Oh c’mon Bagua, any variation on ‘Religion of Peace’ is austomatically dumb.
Its not ironic, and its not funny :P
Austomatically? Did it sting?
| 236 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 10:33:24pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
Call it a test of faith, if you like. I want to make sure that the people running the fight have a proper commitment to it. But I also want Holder wounded to reduce Obama’s reputation and political capital. This is to create an atmosphere conducive to GOP wins in November.
Dude.
So if we have a successful terrorist attack, all is good for the GOP?
Come one DF.
| 238 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:34:14pm |
re: #236 Stanley Sea
Dude.
So if we have a successful terrorist attack, all is good for the GOP?
Come one DF.
DF didn;t say that
| 239 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, May 20, 2010 10:34:45pm |
re: #202 Olsonist
Yes, Holder is a liberal who led an effective anti-terror action. Shall we compare him to Alberto Gonzalez, a man of such grand ineptitude that he can barely hold a job after being Attorney General.
Gonzales is living here in Lubbock right now, having been hired by Texas Tech to teach a political science class and serve as a diversity recruiter. With notorious Reagan era fossil Kent Hance as chancellor, TTU is fast becoming a kind of refuge and asylum for discredited GOP hacks.
| 240 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 10:35:32pm |
re: #237 windsagio
I died a little inside, yeah.
Poor baby, and you cringe at anything mildly critical of dear Mohammad but “Christ on a crutch” is just sayin’ ? >~>
| 241 |
avanti Thu, May 20, 2010 10:35:37pm |
re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist
I’ll repeat—Muslims may use that example as an excuse to continue traditional abuse of little girls, but Islam is hardly unique among the cultures of the world in treating little girls so. Nor do I kid myself that child marriages would be banned throughout Islam if Mohammed had only married girls over twenty-five.
People are going to start to say I have something against Hindus, but child marriages in that culture go back a lot farther than Islam. Does it suck? Yes, very much. Should we do what we can to help? Absolutely. But historically speaking, I’m still going to guess that Mohammed wasn’t a pedophile in any clinical sense. The legal sense is irrelevent, on account of the the dude’s been dead quite a long time.
Some Biblical scholars contend that Mary would have been wed to Joesph in her very early teens as was the custom at the time. As usual, I’ll defer to Walter on the tradition.
| 242 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:36:17pm |
re: #202 Olsonist
Yes, Holder is a liberal who led an effective anti-terror action. Shall we compare him to Alberto Gonzalez, a man of such grand ineptitude that he can barely hold a job after being Attorney General.
Let’s not forget the singing AG with a fear of women’s breasts.
| 243 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:36:29pm |
re: #240 Bagua
Might wanna tune your radar bagua, if someone says “I died a little inside, yeah”, they’re probably not being terribly serious about it.
| 244 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:36:32pm |
re: #240 Bagua
Poor baby, and you cringe at anything mildly critical of dear Mohammad but “Christ on a crutch” is just sayin’ ? >~>
ahaha my grandfather says Christ on a crutch ;-)
| 245 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 10:36:37pm |
re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist
Alas, non-radicals don’t always classify themselves like that. Witness the fury of folks who discovered that the DHS was looking at the activities of radical rightists.
Wingnuts have a general problem in applying to themselves the standards they apply to others.
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:1-5 RSV)
Haven’t quoted scripture in a while.
| 246 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:36:44pm |
re: #223 Cato the Elder
Sometimes, I feel like the only thing you can’t freely criticize here anymore is Islam, radical, moderate, traditional, modern, Sunni, Shiite, Arab or Indonesian or American.
Whatever. Got books to read.
You’ve got support here, Cato. You are not alone.
| 247 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:36:52pm |
re: #243 windsagio
Might wanna tune your radar bagua, if someone says “I died a little inside, yeah”, they’re probably not being terribly serious about it.
I threw up in my internet a little bit
| 248 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:36:56pm |
re: #209 WindUpBird
What is a Dhimi
The term refers legally to a non-Muslim subject of a Muslim state, traditionally subject to taxes, sumptuary restrictions and other legal limitations or lack of recourse under the law.
Think, “Jim Crow”, or the legal status of Jews in Europe before the Napoleonic Code.
Of late, it has become a sort of catchphrase to refer both to the status Muslims are presumed to want to reduce non-Muslims to, and has been adapted to essentially mean an Uncle Tom—a non-Muslim who is duped by Muslim talk of peace, or concedes to Muslims out of fear or stupidity.
Recently used of Donald Trump by Debbie Schlussel.
Irritatingly used with English suffixes to produce horrific words like ‘dhimmification’, and ‘dhimmify’.
| 249 |
Olsonist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:37:42pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
So you want America to fail so that your beloved Republicans can win?
| 250 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:37:43pm |
re: #222 windsagio
yeah something like that :D
Quick poll: Does anyone else know wtf WUB is talking about ?
No idea.
| 251 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:38:07pm |
re: #223 Cato the Elder
Sometimes, I feel like the only thing you can’t freely criticize here anymore is Islam, radical, moderate, traditional, modern, Sunni, Shiite, Arab or Indonesian or American.
Whatever. Got books to read.
Of course you can criticize. You just have to accept that people may argue.
| 252 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:38:24pm |
re: #224 Bagua
Islam is peace and Mohammad is the perfect bloke. Don’t let all the bombings and beheadings fool you.
Anybody here said anything remotely like that?
| 253 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:38:53pm |
re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist
No idea.
you were are final hope!
I guess we’re it for the people who watched creepy anime in the early 90’s :D
| 254 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:39:16pm |
re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist
The hallmark of a second-rate mind is being unable to handle dissent.
| 255 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 10:39:19pm |
re: #233 sattv4u2
You sound disappointed !
Now lets identify the radical muslim groups that won’t harm a fly, that is, if we can call them radical islamist groups!
Sure. Give me an independent and consensual definition of “radical Islam”, so we can avoid the dreaded No True Scotsman.
| 256 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:39:27pm |
re: #226 Dark_Falcon
Call it a test of faith, if you like. I want to make sure that the people running the fight have a proper commitment to it. But I also want Holder wounded to reduce Obama’s reputation and political capital. This is to create an atmosphere conducive to GOP wins in November.
Your honesty of motive is much appreciated—but is also part of why I don’t entirely buy the idea that we have to check if people have a proper commitment—especially if they’re liberals.
| 257 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 10:39:29pm |
re: #238 sattv4u2
DF didn;t say that
Yeah yeah, lets just bring the Atty General down a notch.
Sorry, I misunderstood.
| 259 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:40:31pm |
re: #249 Olsonist
So you want America to fail so that your beloved Republicans can win?
Did you enthusiastically hope that every Bush2/ Bush1/ Reagan policy/ appointment worked well? Or, as someone left of center, did you hope that for POLITICAL reasons a policy/ appointment didn’t pan out?
| 260 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:40:35pm |
re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist
A very bad video store owner rented that out ot us when we were about 15 >>
| 261 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:40:42pm |
re: #238 sattv4u2
DF didn;t say that
Thank you. That indeed was not my intent. I feel that Holder’s tendency to favor a law-enforcement model for dealing with Islamist terror is wrong-headed. It’s a war and should be treated as such.
| 262 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:41:26pm |
re: #261 Dark_Falcon
A law enforcement model can be more effective, especially if you wanna get information out of held suspects.
| 263 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 10:41:43pm |
re: #244 WindUpBird
ahaha my grandfather says Christ on a crutch ;-)
Don’t bother me, but don’t claim that Mohamed must be uniquely spared from any little sayings I may use.
| 264 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:41:58pm |
re: #257 Stanley Sea
Yeah yeah, lets just bring the Atty General down a notch.
Sorry, I misunderstood.
Thats a far cry from saying that DF was hoping for a “successful terrorist attack”
| 265 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:42:31pm |
re: #259 sattv4u2
Did you enthusiastically hope that every Bush2/ Bush1/ Reagan policy/ appointment worked well? Or, as someone left of center, did you hope that for POLITICAL reasons a policy/ appointment didn’t pan out?
how’s this: I don’t want the attorney general to be incapable or prevented from doing his job when it comes to fighting terrorists for political reasons. I think he’s doing a good job, and the quibbles here are basically on his Public Relations.
A police chief is more than just the sum of his press conferences, ya dig?
| 266 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:43:01pm |
re: #227 Stanley Sea
No, really? I’ve heard it thrown around for so many people, none of whom are living under that terrifying Sharia law.
Oh wow.
It pisses me off for that reason. It’s fundamentally come to mean ‘someone who disagrees with me in any way about Islam, jihad or terrorism’. And it’s pretentious and insulting. Ask the Copts in Egypt about being dhimmi.
| 267 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:43:29pm |
| 268 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:43:49pm |
re: #265 WindUpBird
how’s this: I don’t want the attorney general to be incapable or prevented from doing his job when it comes to fighting terrorists for political reasons. I think he’s doing a good job, and the quibbles here are basically on his Public Relations.
A police chief is more than just the sum of his press conferences, ya dig?
He did his job
The Times Square Bomber was caught
POST,, he was asked if RADICAL Islam played a role
| 269 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 10:43:50pm |
re: #233 sattv4u2
Now lets identify the radical muslim groups that won’t harm a fly, that is, if we can call them radical islamist groups!
re: #255 Nimed
Sure. Give me an independent and consensual definition of “radical Islam”, so we can avoid the dreaded No True Scotsman.
Of course, part of the problem is that you yourself don’t a clear idea of what you mean by “radical Islam”.
But you really, really want Holder to say it!
| 270 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:03pm |
re: #258 windsagio
And the President >>
If you would at least put a period at the end of your sentences before the keyboard twitch “>>” I might not downding you quite so much. It’s as irritating as Mandy’s superfluous apostrophes.
In writing, elegance counts almost as much as substance.
| 271 |
Olsonist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:46pm |
re: #259 sattv4u2
Did you enthusiastically hope that every Bush2/ Bush1/ Reagan policy/ appointment worked well? Or, as someone left of center, did you hope that for POLITICAL reasons a policy/ appointment didn’t pan out?
I enthusiastically hoped that EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THE SUCCEEDED. Usually, I didn’t know who they were to begin with. My mother had worked with Ashcroft in the Senate and said he was a good person. Most of them I knew nothing about.
But I wanted them to succeed, dickhead, because it’s our country. I certainly would have chosen differently. Now you can go fuck yourself.
| 272 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:49pm |
re: #243 windsagio
Might wanna tune your radar bagua, if someone says “I died a little inside, yeah”, they’re probably not being terribly serious about it.
Might wanna tune your reading comprehension mate, the >~> after my comment flew right over your head. ~~
(I think I’m getting the hang of these Japanese emoticons.)
| 273 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:51pm |
re: #240 Bagua
Poor baby, and you cringe at anything mildly critical of dear Mohammad but “Christ on a crutch” is just sayin’ ? >~>
Can you provide any evidence that he ‘cringes at anything mildly critical of dear Mohammad’?
| 274 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:45:01pm |
re: #259 sattv4u2
Did you enthusiastically hope that every Bush2/ Bush1/ Reagan policy/ appointment worked well? Or, as someone left of center, did you hope that for POLITICAL reasons a policy/ appointment didn’t pan out?
Truthfully, I was awfully glad when John “Drape Those Titties” Ashcroft went down in flames.
| 275 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:45:04pm |
| 276 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:45:50pm |
re: #272 Bagua
hehehe. change your style suddenly, and expect some misunderstandings :)
| 277 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:45:51pm |
re: #269 Nimed
Of course, part of the problem is that you yourself don’t a clear idea of what you mean by “radical Islam”.
But you really, really want Holder to say it!
“RADICAL ISLAM”
An individual or group that has declared war and/ or the destruction and/ or death in the name of Islam against all that do not ascribe to THEIR tenet of Islam
| 278 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:08pm |
re: #262 windsagio
A law enforcement model can be more effective, especially if you wanna get information out of held suspects.
I don’t agree. In a longer struggle, as this is, a war model is better for keeping people focused on the enemy as an enemy and not wanted to seek peace before the enemy ideology is crushed. The great thing is not gathering intel, important as that is. The great thing is keeping your focus and your nerve.
| 279 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:37pm |
re: #268 sattv4u2
He did his job
The Times Square Bomber was caught
POST,, he was asked if RADICAL Islam played a role
and for reasons that I trust make sense, he didn’t want to use that word.
I care about his job, and whether he does it. Whether he gets the bad guys. I don’t care about memes, or keywords, or dogwhistles, or warmfuzzies about our God kicking the ass of Their God, or who Mohammed fucked and when.
| 280 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 10:47:04pm |
re: #31 Cato the Elder
Nobody needs to answer my question in #17, by the way. The facts are plain: “gotcha” is good when you disagree with the person getting got, but bad and obnoxious and evil when you disagree with the would-be gotcha getter.
Just thought I’d point that out.
I’m pulling an SFZ here, but thanks for pointing this out.
| 281 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:47:34pm |
re: #271 Olsonist
I enthusiastically hoped that EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THE SUCCEEDED. Usually, I didn’t know who they were to begin with. My mother had worked with Ashcroft in the Senate and said he was a good person. Most of them I knew nothing about.
But I wanted them to succeed, dickhead, because it’s our country. I certainly would have chosen differently. Now you can go fuck yourself.
Boy ,, am I glad I called you names and swore at you to start with!
oh ,, wait ,, I didn’t !
| 282 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:48:26pm |
re: #278 Dark_Falcon
Umm… yeah, I don’t agree with your vision of whats going on at all.
We may be at an impasse if you think the primary problem is us ‘keeping our focus and nerve’.
| 283 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 10:48:35pm |
re: #274 Cato the Elder
Truthfully, I was awfully glad when John “Drape Those Titties” Ashcroft went down in flames.
Now that you mention it ,, ditto :)
| 284 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:49:10pm |
re: #275 windsagio
Its not without meaning, tho’. >>
And you downding me ‘cuz you’re PissT.
Nope. Cold as ice. I honestly think you’re a pernicious fool who gives “liberal” a bad name.
| 285 |
sagehen Thu, May 20, 2010 10:49:19pm |
re: #259 sattv4u2
Did you enthusiastically hope that every Bush2/ Bush1/ Reagan policy/ appointment worked well? Or, as someone left of center, did you hope that for POLITICAL reasons a policy/ appointment didn’t pan out?
Every time a Bush made what I thought was a foolish decision, every time he announced a policy that I thought would lead to bad things, I hoped to be proven wrong.
In the case of Bush the Elder, that actually happened several times. Bush the Lesser, never.
| 286 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:49:29pm |
re: #284 Cato the Elder
Let me guess, you’re ‘amused’. ;)
| 287 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 10:49:47pm |
re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist
Anybody here said anything remotely like that?
Of course not, my material is always original.
| 288 |
Pip's Squeak Thu, May 20, 2010 10:49:51pm |
re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist
People are going to start to say I have something against Hindus, but child marriages in that culture go back a lot farther than Islam.
Could you adduce evidence for this? I know of none.
| 289 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:26pm |
re: #274 Cato the Elder
Truthfully, I was awfully glad when John “Drape Those Titties” Ashcroft went down in flames.
He didn’t go down in flames. He left office after George W’s first term. He left having successfully remade the DoJ into a organization ready and able to do its part in fighting Radical Islam.
| 290 |
freetoken Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:36pm |
re: #278 Dark_Falcon
I don’t agree. In a longer struggle, as this is, a war model is better for keeping people focused on the enemy as an enemy and not wanted to seek peace before the enemy ideology is crushed. The great thing is not gathering intel, important as that is. The great thing is keeping your focus and your nerve.
You’ve packed a lot in there.
Yet I’ve boldfaced what is quite a disappointing, we will discover in the long run, venture.
You’re wanting to fight a war against religious doctrines of zealots.
That is just not a very tractable problem.
| 291 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:40pm |
Just saw The Blind Side. What a great movie. Went and looked at the reviews around the web and they were awful. Pretty much if you want to see a good movie, find one that the reviewers hate.
| 292 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:55pm |
re: #241 avanti
Some Biblical scholars contend that Mary would have been wed to Joesph in her very early teens as was the custom at the time. As usual, I’ll defer to Walter on the tradition.
I don’t know a lot about the first century, but there’s a sweet Yiddish lullaby from the late nineteenth. The mother sings to her baby daughter that when she’s twelve years old, a prince will come to marry her, and mama will sew beautiful clothes for her—the baby’s father, she adds, has become modern, and says his daughter is not to marry until she’s eighteen, but Mama will outwit him, so go to sleep…
In medieval communities worldwide, girls were married off at puberty or earlier. There are, of course, plenty of counterexamples of cultures with later ages of marriage, but plenty of European princesses were betrothed in the cradle and married off at puberty.
Is this a goddamn abomination before the Lord in the present day? Hell, yeah. But can I get real worked up about in the case of a seventh century warlord/religious leader? Not really.
| 293 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:52:23pm |
re: #292 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah precisely. I didn’t wanna bring it up because, the energy is bad enough, but human cultural values are hardly eternal or set in stone.
| 294 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:53:05pm |
re: #292 SanFranciscoZionist
Is this a goddamn abomination before the Lord in the present day? Hell, yeah. But can I get real worked up about in the case of a seventh century warlord/religious leader? Not really.
it just seems like a smear against muslims in general. ‘YOUR PROPHET’S A PEDO NYAH NYAH.” I don’t dig it.
I mean, Americans were ENSLAVING PEOPLE not too many years ago. And I’m not running screaming from America to go live on an island.
| 295 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:53:27pm |
re: #260 windsagio
A very bad video store owner rented that out ot us when we were about 15 >>
I flipped down as far as ‘horny teacher possessed by an iguana demon’, and then I decided to look elsewhere.
My.
| 296 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:53:54pm |
re: #290 freetoken
You’ve packed a lot in there.
Yet I’ve boldfaced what is quite a disappointing, we will discover in the long run, venture.
You’re wanting to fight a war against religious doctrines of zealots.
That is just not a very tractable problem.
You can’t bomb ideas.
You can’t shoot anger.
And you can’t stab paranoia.
| 297 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:54:16pm |
re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist
I flipped down as far as ‘horny teacher possessed by an iguana demon’, and then I decided to look elsewhere.
My.
What would we do without Wiki? :D
| 298 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 10:55:00pm |
re: #296 WindUpBird
You can kill angry, paranoid people with violent ideas
| 299 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 10:55:09pm |
Anyone who says they abhor the political party in power, its policies, proposals, and positions, which will lead the country to ruin and perdition, but that they still want the people implementing those polices etc. to succeed for the good of the country is either lying or insane.
| 300 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 10:55:26pm |
re: #274 Cato the Elder
Truthfully, I was awfully glad when John “Drape Those Titties” Ashcroft went down in flames.
But was that mostly about the awful blue drapes?
| 301 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 10:55:42pm |
re: #277 sattv4u2
“RADICAL ISLAM”
An individual or group that has declared war and/ or the destruction and/ or death in the name of Islam against all that do not ascribe to THEIR tenet of Islam
Thanks. First of all, I’ll note that your concept of “radical Islam” is not harmless by definition
Second:
en.wikipedia.org
Islamism (redirected from Radical Islam) - a set of ideologies holding that Islam is not only a religion but also a political system; that modern Muslims must return to their roots of their religion, and unite politically.
A completely different definition. Is it possible that other people don’t share your definition of “radical Islam”? And that discussing underdefined, possibly offensive labels, is a waste of time at best?
| 302 |
swamprat Thu, May 20, 2010 10:55:53pm |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
He didn’t go down in flames. He left office after George W’s first term. He left having successfully remade the DoJ into a organization ready and able to do its part in fighting Radical Islam.
Jay
Eye
En
Gee
Oh!
Jay
Eye
En
Gee
Oh!
Jay
Eye
En
Gee
Oh!
And JINGO was its name-o!
| 303 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:56:10pm |
Fact. The Afghanistan and Pakistan war is more relevant to the war on terror than the Iraq War. Osama Bin Laden was in Afghanistan and the Taliban is a product of Pakistan. Since taking office, the Obama administration has increased military operation in that theater by over a factor of 2.
Obama might not say “Islamic extremism” but we’ve been killing far more Al-Qaeda and Taliban than before January of 2009.
| 304 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 10:56:26pm |
re: #258 windsagio
Dude, I’m 44 comments behind now. shitty
| 305 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:56:44pm |
re: #298 cliffster
You can kill angry, paranoid people with violent ideas
Sure! But can you kill them all? And can you invade all the countries that harbor them?
What if they’ve got violent and radical ideas but they don’t act on them? It’s sort of tough to fight the idea and not the guy who did a violent thing.
| 306 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:57:25pm |
re: #304 Stanley Sea
Thread’s going at a good clip. Its hard to focus, I just found out my Dwarves are currently surviving on peanut butter and rasberry schnapps.
| 307 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 10:57:54pm |
re: #306 windsagio
Thread’s going at a good clip. Its hard to focus, I just found out my Dwarves are currently surviving on peanut butter and rasberry schnapps.
what
| 308 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 10:58:08pm |
re: #296 WindUpBird
You can’t bomb ideas.
You can’t shoot anger.
And you can’t stab paranoia.
But you can convince people that attempting to act on those ideas is a death sentence. You can demonstrate that their anger is useless against a foe too strong to beat. The object is to either kill the ideology’s adherents, or convince them they cannot win.
| 309 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 10:59:21pm |
re: #307 WindUpBird
Got so busy commenting on the thread, I forgot to tell them to make food, and I”m almost out of both food and booze.
| 310 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 10:59:42pm |
re: #306 windsagio
Thread’s going at a good clip. Its hard to focus, I just found out my Dwarves are currently surviving on peanut butter and rasberry schnapps.
why are you always talking about your sex life on LGF??
| 311 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 10:59:58pm |
re: #309 windsagio
Got so busy commenting on the thread, I forgot to tell them to make food, and I”m almost out of both food and booze.
What about ammo! You got ammo?
//
| 312 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 10:59:59pm |
re: #296 WindUpBird
You can’t bomb ideas.
You can’t shoot anger.
And you can’t stab paranoia.
Actually, that is not historically accurate. WWII is often framed as a war against ideologies. Part of why there was an enduring peace was the crushing of the ideologies of the enemies.
| 313 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 11:00:23pm |
re: #277 sattv4u2
“RADICAL ISLAM”
An individual or group that has declared war and/ or the destruction and/ or death in the name of Islam against all that do not ascribe to THEIR tenet of Islam
And, just to nitpick, I’ve never heard anyone call an individual or groups “radical Islam”.
| 314 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 11:00:28pm |
re: #302 swamprat
Jay
Eye
En
Gee
Oh!Jay
Eye
En
Gee
Oh!Jay
Eye
En
Gee
Oh!And JINGO was its name-o!
How was what I said jingoistic?
| 315 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, May 20, 2010 11:00:42pm |
Good night all.
Sweet dreams!
| 316 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 11:00:48pm |
re: #261 Dark_Falcon
updinged for you, not necessarily your opinion in that post. :)
| 317 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 11:00:56pm |
re: #312 Bagua
Actually, that is not historically accurate. WWII is often framed as a war against ideologies. Part of why there was an enduring peace was the crushing of the ideologies of the enemies.
Quite Concur.
| 318 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 11:01:33pm |
| 320 |
swamprat Thu, May 20, 2010 11:02:05pm |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
But jingoism is not always a bad thing.
The original quote from which it was coined, is in fact, quite sensible.
We don’t want(something or other)…but if they do…by JINGO! We’ll give it to them.
| 321 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 11:02:36pm |
re: #264 sattv4u2
Thats a far cry from saying that DF was hoping for a “successful terrorist attack”
How, pray tell, do you bring the US Atty General down a notch?
| 322 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:03:10pm |
re: #301 Nimed
Thanks. First of all, I’ll note that your concept of “radical Islam” is not harmless by definition
Second:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Islamism (redirected from Radical Islam) - a set of ideologies holding that Islam is not only a religion but also a political system; that modern Muslims must return to their roots of their religion, and unite politically.A completely different definition. Is it possible that other people don’t share your definition of “radical Islam”? And that discussing underdefined, possibly offensive labels, is a waste of time at best?
Yes. is it possible that other people (other than THE person who wrote it) don’t share WIKIS definition?
After all, you asked for MY defintion
| 323 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:04:37pm |
re: #321 Stanley Sea
How, pray tell, do you bring the US Atty General down a notch?
To many people his performance in front of the senate committee this week did it
To others not coming to a decision as to where/ when to try KSM
| 325 |
freetoken Thu, May 20, 2010 11:05:07pm |
re: #308 Dark_Falcon
But you can convince people that attempting to act on those ideas is a death sentence. You can demonstrate that their anger is useless against a foe too strong to beat. The object is to either kill the ideology’s adherents, or convince them they cannot win.
So, what are you going to tell a suicide bomber - “don’t do it or we’ll kill you” - ?
Or how about the 19 that destroyed the twin towers. Do you believe that they thought they had a chance of escaping alive?
Or, if you are trying to say that we can scare an entire culture into not producing individuals to do such suicidal acts, what do you say about the parents who have so willingly raised their children to become jihadists? Are you going to try and convince them - “don’t raise your children that way, it’s dangerous!”
| 326 |
Cato the Elder Thu, May 20, 2010 11:06:07pm |
The closest my paternal grandfather ever got to swearing was when he would say “by jingo!”
And that’s all for tonight, really.
| 327 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:06:26pm |
Bleh. Don’t expect perfection. It’s been almost 30 days since the oil platform fire and thing is still leaking. We’re all still scratching our heads trying to figure out how to plug that leak. New Orleans is still being reconstructed. No one has found a cure for cancer. And I’m still waiting for my jet pack.
| 328 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 11:06:30pm |
re: #308 Dark_Falcon
But you can convince people that attempting to act on those ideas is a death sentence. You can demonstrate that their anger is useless against a foe too strong to beat. The object is to either kill the ideology’s adherents, or convince them they cannot win.
What I’m saying is you don’t convince them with war. War and war footing (as opposed to law enforcement methods) aren’t for winning arguments with extremists, they’re for taking and defending land and resources and strategic interests.
The way the extremists lose is when movements like the Green Movement in Iran win. The green movement wins not when we demonize Islam, but when the people of Iran look at their leaders and decide that they’re being lied to and they want something better. Twitter was a better weapon against extremists than any bomb we can drop, any awesome high tech plane we build, any laser guided missle or any battleship. For example! We have a long history of fucking with and doing terrible things to Iran. The west helped radicalize them in the first place! We can’t “war” that away. Maybe we can inform it away.
| 329 |
freetoken Thu, May 20, 2010 11:06:42pm |
re: #326 Cato the Elder
And that’s all for tonight, really.
This is your third good-bye… bets on a fourth?
| 330 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:06:44pm |
re: #313 Nimed
And, just to nitpick, I’ve never heard anyone call an individual or groups “radical Islam”.
Al Q aren’t radical islamists?
The 9/11 hijackers weren’t radical islamists?
| 331 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:06:48pm |
re: #288 Pip’s Squeak
Could you adduce evidence for this? I know of none.
A few odds and ends here, although this mostly refers to the nineteenth and twentieth/twenty-first centuries. I can try to find you earlier material, but most of what I’ve read is in the library rather than on-line.
| 332 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 11:06:56pm |
re: #291 cliffster
Just saw The Blind Side. What a great movie. Went and looked at the reviews around the web and they were awful. Pretty much if you want to see a good movie, find one that the reviewers hate.
I just watched it too. My eyes were puffy the next day. Great movie.
| 333 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 11:07:45pm |
re: #312 Bagua
Actually, that is not historically accurate. WWII is often framed as a war against ideologies. Part of why there was an enduring peace was the crushing of the ideologies of the enemies.
And we needed a World War to do that.
Maybe we could crush the ideology of “radical islam” by a world war.
I don’t think we’re going to fight a world war, becaaauuuse it would probably result in a nuclear exchange that end all life on earth.
| 334 |
swamprat Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:15pm |
re: #314 Dark_Falcon
How was what I said jingoistic?
It was exactly jingoistic. Putting America ready for a fight, but not to the point of instigating one.
..Scared the hell out of America’s enemies, so they put a negative spin on it.
..Like the word game about “unilateral”. “Unilaterally” sounds much worse than “Independently!”.
The Declaration of Unilateralism! Kinda has a nice ring to it, no?
| 335 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:25pm |
re: #329 freetoken
This is your third good-bye… bets on a fourth?
I’m trying to pull myself away but it’s still interesting, durnit!
| 336 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:44pm |
re: #328 WindUpBird
I actually had to ‘fave that, goodjob!
| 337 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:48pm |
re: #303 Gus 802
Fact. The Afghanistan and Pakistan war is more relevant to the war on terror than the Iraq War. Osama Bin Laden was in Afghanistan and the Taliban is a product of Pakistan. Since taking office, the Obama administration has increased military operation in that theater by over a factor of 2.
Obama might not say “Islamic extremism” but we’ve been killing far more Al-Qaeda and Taliban than before January of 2009.
I’ve said this with sarcasm before, but I feel as though I see a sense with some people that Obama’s actual pursuit of the war isn’t enough because they don’t feel that he’s fully ‘engaged’ or committed in some way they generally can’t define.
| 338 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:06pm |
Floyd Landis accuses Lance Armstrong of doping
I haven’t heard what the TdF’s admin’s response to this is yet. I’m sure they will ecstatically scream “see I told you he was a cheater!”. Of course, for the last two years they’ve been saying that nothing Landis says should be trusted.
| 339 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:20pm |
re: #336 windsagio
I actually had to ‘fave that, goodjob!
I almost quoted Cosmo from Sneakers.
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE INFORMATION MARTY!!!
| 340 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:26pm |
re: #322 sattv4u2
Yes. is it possible that other people (other than THE person who wrote it) don’t share WIKIS definition?
After all, you asked for MY defintion
But if YOUR definition isn’t shared, discussing “radical Islam” is pointless. Radical Islam is underdefined - everybody who was watching Holder has THEIR OWN definition in their heads - because Smith’s question was, as I pointed out earlier, about semantics, not anything substantive.
I noticed you’ve cut my second question in your reply - Isn’t discussing underdefined and possibly offensive labels a waste of time at best?
| 341 |
abolitionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:58pm |
re: #209 WindUpBird
What is a Dhimi
re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist
Excellent answer, as far as it goes.
re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist
It pisses me off for that reason. It’s fundamentally come to mean ‘someone who disagrees with me in any way about Islam, jihad or terrorism’. And it’s pretentious and insulting. Ask the Copts in Egypt about being dhimmi.
If I may add, there are very few in Thailand to ask about being dhimmi, as one must be christian or jewish to qualify. Everyone else gets only the convert or die option, according to islamic doctrine. Or as some seem to believe, according to the teachings of the radical islamists.
| 343 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:05pm |
Speaking of it all being about The Information (and Dark City earlier)
I’m working at a service station
Working myself into the ground
I don’t have a sink to wash my face in
What about the information?
| 344 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:17pm |
re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist
I’ve said this with sarcasm before, but I feel as though I see a sense with some people that Obama’s actual pursuit of the war isn’t enough because they don’t feel that he’s fully ‘engaged’ or committed in some way they generally can’t define.
The unfortunate part is this. The left is now ignoring this because they don’t want to believe it’s happening. Many have found it hard to accept that President Obama was and is willing to prosecute a war.
The right is ignoring it because the CiC is President Obama. If they’re not ignoring it they’re criticizing his every move. By and large though it’s been swept under the rug because of interest in other “Tea Party” issues.
| 345 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:50pm |
re: #342 cliffster
cockroaches, man
Imagine the Cockroach civilizations that would arise on earth over the coming millenia!
| 346 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 11:12:19pm |
re: #325 freetoken
So, what are you going to tell a suicide bomber - “don’t do it or we’ll kill you” - ?
Or how about the 19 that destroyed the twin towers. Do you believe that they thought they had a chance of escaping alive?
Or, if you are trying to say that we can scare an entire culture into not producing individuals to do such suicidal acts, what do you say about the parents who have so willingly raised their children to become jihadists? Are you going to try and convince them - “don’t raise your children that way, it’s dangerous!”
You are mistaken. The terrorists are not suicidal nor do the majority of them act alone. They are the product of networks and a variety of social support and reinforcement. They are homicidal, and willing to give their lives to help their cause. If they knew the consequences of their acts would bring harm for their cause, they may be deterred.
| 347 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 11:12:19pm |
re: #323 sattv4u2
To many people his performance in front of the senate committee this week did it
To others not coming to a decision as to where/ when to try KSM
Well, so you got your wish then. finis.
| 348 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, May 20, 2010 11:12:38pm |
Would giving operators of private business that are nevertheless “places of public accommodation” the permission to discriminate “on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin” not be a tacit admission of the idea that some private businesses may have reasonable economic interests to these kind of discriminations, and therefore also to the idea that ideologies such as racism have an at-least somewhat true economic and defensible foundation? I find the idea of this kind of class warfare, occuring in the form of racism during the economically troubled times of today quite unsettling…
The kind of radicalism Rand Paul advocates is mind-blowingly naive. The idea that property rights should take an absolute precedence over any other rights in all circumstances would have to entitle slave owners to their slaves as their property. It would, of course, also have to give all women the right to abortion, but I guess giving women ownership over their own bodies is not right-wing enough.
What Paul seems to advocate is defending businesses against the government in such an absolute stance that it would bar the government from defending itself against businesses and from being able to protecting individuals from businesses. He does not want the government to mingle with a private corporation, but he seems to be okay with the goverment mingling with an individual’s private life.
| 349 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:12:46pm |
re: #341 abolitionist
If I may add, there are very few in Thailand to ask about being dhimmi, as one must be christian or jewish to qualify. Everyone else gets only the convert or die option, according to islamic doctrine. Or as some seem to believe, according to the teachings of the radical islamists.
I’m missing something. Thailand is less than five percent Muslim. Given the overwhelming Buddhist majority, they must be doing something wrong if the only options are ‘convert or die’.
| 351 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 11:13:45pm |
re: #334 swamprat
It was exactly jingoistic. Putting America ready for a fight, but not to the point of instigating one.
..Scared the hell out of America’s enemies, so they put a negative spin on it...Like the word game about “unilateral”. “Unilaterally” sounds much worse than “Independently!”.
The Declaration of Unilateralism! Kinda has a nice ring to it, no?
Yes, it does.
| 352 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 11:14:11pm |
re: #348 000G
err, you can post what you want of course, but it might be off the current subject by about 200 posts >>
| 353 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, May 20, 2010 11:14:33pm |
| 354 |
swamprat Thu, May 20, 2010 11:14:34pm |
I am declaring a unilateral move away from LGF and towards the bed. If any would oppose such an action, while I do not wish a fight, if there are those who do…. by jingo! I’ll bring it to them!
| 355 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 11:15:24pm |
re: #330 sattv4u2
Al Q aren’t radical islamists?
The 9/11 hijackers weren’t radical islamists?
Are people who blow up abortion clinics and murder physicians “radical Christians”? Do all radical Christians want to commit these crimes?
| 357 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:15:47pm |
re: #354 swamprat
I am declaring a unilateral move away from LGF and towards the bed. If any would oppose such an action, while I do not wish a fight, if there are those who do… by jingo! I’ll bring it to them!
Watch out for the tiny radical bed bugs. They wear tiny babushkas and carry RPGs.
| 358 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 11:16:24pm |
re: #354 swamprat
I am declaring a unilateral move away from LGF and towards the bed. If any would oppose such an action, while I do not wish a fight, if there are those who do… by jingo! I’ll bring it to them!
If we oppose it, does that make us radical lizards?
| 359 |
freetoken Thu, May 20, 2010 11:17:39pm |
re: #348 000G
The kind of radicalism Rand Paul advocates is mind-blowingly naive.
Perhaps the Son is a bit naive, but I doubt the Father is so.
This tactic of exalting property ownership above others is a well-worn path. It is very much a Gary North / Lew Rockwell type of thing. It is a central doctrine of Libertarian Fundamentalism. It is also very medieval/feudal where the local knight/landlord rules absolutely over his domain.
| 360 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:17:55pm |
re: #355 Nimed
Are people who blow up abortion clinics and murder physicians “radical Christians”? Do all radical Christians want to commit these crimes?
I love this sort of theme. Does that happen a lot? Physicians getting murdered by radical Christians? Is there an intricate infrastructure of training grounds, funding operations, and recruitment for these radical Christian extremists?
| 362 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 11:18:29pm |
re: #328 WindUpBird
News flash, the Green revolution didn’t win in Iran. The protesters were beaten, imprisoned, raped, persecuted. All Twitter did was get out the gory photos. Twitter also works lousy against Iranian ballistic missiles and cruise missiles.
| 363 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 11:19:26pm |
re: #346 Bagua
You are mistaken. The terrorists are not suicidal nor do the majority of them act alone. They are the product of networks and a variety of social support and reinforcement. They are homicidal, and willing to give their lives to help their cause. If they knew the consequences of their acts would bring harm for their cause, they may be deterred.
Just so. For suicide attackers, you need somewhat different deterrence with reprisals against family property and family members a good tactic. Kid blows himself up, we burn down his family’s farm and shoot their livestock. You try to kill us, your family starves. That is deterrence.
| 365 |
Four More Tears Thu, May 20, 2010 11:19:49pm |
re: #360 cliffster
Is there an intricate infrastructure of training grounds, funding operations, and recruitment for these radical Christian extremists?
Well allow me to retort.
| 366 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:20:19pm |
re: #363 Dark_Falcon
Just so. For suicide attackers, you need somewhat different deterrence with reprisals against family property and family members a good tactic. Kid blows himself up, we burn down his family’s farm and shoot their livestock. You try to kill us, your family starves. That is deterrence.
Before I think too much about the morality of that tactic, is there evidence that it works?
| 368 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:21:32pm |
re: #363 Dark_Falcon
Just so. For suicide attackers, you need somewhat different deterrence with reprisals against family property and family members a good tactic. Kid blows himself up, we burn down his family’s farm and shoot their livestock. You try to kill us, your family starves. That is deterrence.
You’re kidding right? That would never happen.
| 369 |
windsagio Thu, May 20, 2010 11:22:01pm |
re: #361 Stanley Sea
heh I think I need to do something to chill, I’m a bit sharptongued tonight :/
| 370 |
Pip's Squeak Thu, May 20, 2010 11:22:05pm |
re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist
Thanks. I think that pre-puberal marriage is not really condoned by the Dharmasastra (note that the Hindu ‘nut’ in the “Kamakoti” site doesn’t bother to cite Manu, nor Veda for that matter etc.). He only cites the Mahabharata on caste-intermixture, and mistranslates this.
Detail of prescriptive law aside, not much of the actual praxis of Classical India is known, for obvious reasons.
| 371 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 11:23:41pm |
re: #360 cliffster
I love this sort of theme. Does that happen a lot? Physicians getting murdered by radical Christians? Is there an intricate infrastructure of training grounds, funding operations, and recruitment for these radical Christian extremists?
Note that I’m not using this point to say that terrorist acts committed by Christians and Muslims are comparable in magnitude. We’re discussing the label “radical”, and how important it was for Holder to dodging it compared to Rand Paul dodging the “desegregation of lunch counters” and other specific questions regarding civil rights legislation.
| 372 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 11:24:17pm |
re: #333 WindUpBird
And we needed a World War to do that.
Maybe we could crush the ideology of “radical islam” by a world war.
I don’t think we’re going to fight a world war, becaaauuuse it would probably result in a nuclear exchange that end all life on earth.
The War is already a world war, and it has already lasted longer than either world war. What nuclear exchange are you referring to? They don’t have them, yet.
| 373 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 11:24:46pm |
re: #369 windsagio
heh I think I need to do something to chill, I’m a bit sharptongued tonight :/
That’s just how we like you, damn it!
| 375 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:25:30pm |
re: #365 JasonA
Well allow me to retort.
I like the end where they’re handing out the explosive vests to all the kids.
| 376 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 11:27:12pm |
| 377 |
Four More Tears Thu, May 20, 2010 11:27:16pm |
You could just go to the middle where there smashing perfectly good kitchware and pretending it’s government.
| 378 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:27:46pm |
re: #347 Stanley Sea
Well, so you got your wish then. finis.
‘my” wish?
I was asked a question. I answered it. Please show me where I advocated that Holder fail?
| 379 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:27:50pm |
re: #377 JasonA
You could just go to the middle where there smashing perfectly good kitchware and pretending it’s government.
Can I have a hit?
//
| 380 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 11:28:04pm |
re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist
Before I think too much about the morality of that tactic, is there evidence that it works?
Demolishing the homes of suicide bombers has had some effect for Israel. I’m fond of the idea, but it seems one of the few ways to warn off fanatical attackers. I’m open to a better idea.
| 381 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:28:56pm |
| 382 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, May 20, 2010 11:28:58pm |
re: #359 freetoken
Perhaps the Son is a bit naive, but I doubt the Father is so.
This tactic of exalting property ownership above others is a well-worn path. It is very much a Gary North / Lew Rockwell type of thing. It is a central doctrine of Libertarian Fundamentalism. It is also very medieval/feudal where the local knight/landlord rules absolutely over his domain.
The last point is interesting because even though the medieval/feudal lords had absolute rule over their domain, they did not own anything in it as property. Much like the authoritarian bureaucrats in socialist societies, feudal lords were able to command over production, distribution, consumption and accumulation by sheer force. But their possessions were not able to be executed or enforced against with universal laws. The dynamics of interest and credit (debiting, hypothecation, etc.) were largely lost. This has to do with property arising through the absolute rule of law before which all are equal. Only with no person having absolute power or rights above any other person, only with this absolute relativity of all persons and their property to each other do the full property rights and their entitlements come into power.
The idea that “absolute freedom” for some must mean absolute unfreedom for others and that any individual freedom in a society can only be relative is an idea few libertarians seem to get.
| 383 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 11:29:36pm |
| 384 |
Four More Tears Thu, May 20, 2010 11:30:02pm |
re: #375 cliffster
Or you could go to about 7:40 where the kid in camo facepaint is flailing around while the woman shouts “This means war!”
| 385 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:30:14pm |
Here’s the thing: I find the role of Islam in modern terrorism interesting. But I often feel as though stepping even slightly outside the prescribed bounds leads to people acting as though you were a complete moonbat. This makes discussion less fun and productive.
I don’t totally get it.
| 386 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:30:54pm |
re: #340 Nimed
But if YOUR definition isn’t shared, discussing “radical Islam” is pointless. Radical Islam is underdefined - everybody who was watching Holder has THEIR OWN definition in their heads - because Smith’s question was, as I pointed out earlier, about semantics, not anything substantive.
I noticed you’ve cut my second question in your reply - Isn’t discussing underdefined and possibly offensive labels a waste of time at best?
by that rational, discussing just about anything is pointless!
As to point #2, no. Perhaps discussing it will assist in defining them
| 387 |
Stanley Sea Thu, May 20, 2010 11:31:12pm |
re: #378 sattv4u2
‘my” wish?
I was asked a question. I answered it. Please show me where I advocated that Holder fail?
ah geeze. I’m not going to get back into it.
| 388 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:31:36pm |
re: #380 Dark_Falcon
Demolishing the homes of suicide bombers has had some effect for Israel. I’m fond of the idea, but it seems one of the few ways to warn off fanatical attackers. I’m open to a better idea.
It’s different in Israel where in fact it is almost like a police operation. They know exactly which house to target.
Our army is a professional army not a gang of mercenaries. You send out a platoon to get this kids house and send him where? You think they’re going to know exactly which house this kid came from within 100s of square miles? Then kill some livestock while they’re at it?
Odds are they would accomplish two things. They’d destroy the wrong house and they’d kill someone elses livestock. The result would most likely be that you just turned two families that were probably allies of the American troops fighting the Taliban in their area.
It would accomplish nothing and in fact be highly counterproductive.
| 390 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:31:51pm |
re: #387 Stanley Sea
ah geeze. I’m not going to get back into it.
Sorry ,, just responding. I had gone BBIAB
| 391 |
Four More Tears Thu, May 20, 2010 11:32:18pm |
re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist
How does the Jewish population feel every time this is called a Christian nation? Or has the community just become numb to it?
| 392 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:32:53pm |
re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist
Here’s the thing: I find the role of Islam in modern terrorism interesting. But I often feel as though stepping even slightly outside the prescribed bounds leads to people acting as though you were a complete moonbat. This makes discussion less fun and productive.
I don’t totally get it.
welcome to my world.
cliffster: “I favor a smaller government and more self-reliance from the populace”
other guy: “Oh, you’re one of these abolish-the-fed and repeal-the-civil-rights-act guys, eh??”
| 393 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:33:02pm |
re: #388 Gus 802
It’s different in Israel where in fact it is almost like a police operation. They know exactly which house to target.
Our army is a professional army not a gang of mercenaries. You send out a platoon to get this kids house and send him where? You think they’re going to know exactly which house this kid came from within 100s of square miles? Then kill some livestock while they’re at it?
Odds are they would accomplish two things. They’d destroy the wrong house and they’d kill someone elses livestock. The result would most likely be that you just turned two families that were probably allies of the American troops fighting the Taliban in their area.
It would accomplish nothing and in fact be highly counterproductive.
I keep wondering how the Afghan guy with the tank is doing.
| 394 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:34:25pm |
re: #393 SanFranciscoZionist
I keep wondering how the Afghan guy with the tank is doing.
You’ll have to refresh my memory.
| 395 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:35:43pm |
re: #392 cliffster
welcome to my world.
cliffster: “I favor a smaller government and more self-reliance from the populace”
other guy: “Oh, you’re one of these abolish-the-fed and repeal-the-civil-rights-act guys, eh??”
EGGGZZZAKKRRY!
| 396 |
sagehen Thu, May 20, 2010 11:36:08pm |
re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist
I’ve said this with sarcasm before, but I feel as though I see a sense with some people that Obama’s actual pursuit of the war isn’t enough because they don’t feel that he’s fully ‘engaged’ or committed in some way they generally can’t define.
I think Obama has a general sense that part of how we defeat the terrorists… is by not letting ourselves be terrorized.
The military is taking action against people who do us violence. For everybody else, our part in the fight against terror is to not live in terror, to just go about our lives secure in the belief that there will be a tomorrow and next week and next month.
The administration is not doing frothing press conferences, and raising color codes, and whipping up fervor, all of which is a big change from how the previous administration did things, and that bothers people who approved of how the previous administration did things.
| 397 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:36:34pm |
re: #384 JasonA
Or you could go to about 7:40 where the kid in camo facepaint is flailing around while the woman shouts “This means war!”
yup. And somehow, I bet that kid goes his whole life without ever blowing anything up.
| 398 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 11:36:45pm |
re: #393 SanFranciscoZionist
I keep wondering how the Afghan guy with the tank is doing.
Is that a reference to “The Beast”?
| 399 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, May 20, 2010 11:39:52pm |
re: #388 Gus 802
It’s different in Israel where in fact it is almost like a police operation. They know exactly which house to target.
Our army is a professional army not a gang of mercenaries. You send out a platoon to get this kids house and send him where? You think they’re going to know exactly which house this kid came from within 100s of square miles? Then kill some livestock while they’re at it?
Odds are they would accomplish two things. They’d destroy the wrong house and they’d kill someone elses livestock. The result would most likely be that you just turned two families that were probably allies of the American troops fighting the Taliban in their area.
It would accomplish nothing and in fact be highly counterproductive.
That is a good point. But now I feel myself growing tired. Some my words may have been weariness talking. I’m going to go to bed and reevaluate my words in the morning. Sleep well, all.
| 400 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 11:40:06pm |
re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist
Here’s the thing: I find the role of Islam in modern terrorism interesting. But I often feel as though stepping even slightly outside the prescribed bounds leads to people acting as though you were a complete moonbat. This makes discussion less fun and productive.
I don’t totally get it.
It’s a highly emotive ‘elephant in the room’ type thing. All of us want essentially the same result, to be safe and at peace with the world, and also to understand the enemy.
| 401 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:40:07pm |
re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist
Here’s the thing: I find the role of Islam in modern terrorism interesting. But I often feel as though stepping even slightly outside the prescribed bounds leads to people acting as though you were a complete moonbat. This makes discussion less fun and productive.
I don’t totally get it.
Well. Stepping outside of the prescribed bounds is what many would say is what led to the success in the latter stages of the Iraq War. That involved actual nation building (or rebuilding as might be the case) and dealing with social fabric of the Sunni and Shia tribes…
| 402 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:40:51pm |
re: #399 Dark_Falcon
That is a good point. But now I feel myself growing tired. Some my words may have been weariness talking. I’m going to go to bed and reevaluate my words in the morning. Sleep well, all.
Later DF.
| 403 |
sagehen Thu, May 20, 2010 11:41:15pm |
re: #360 cliffster
I love this sort of theme. Does that happen a lot? Physicians getting murdered by radical Christians? Is there an intricate infrastructure of training grounds, funding operations, and recruitment for these radical Christian extremists?
Well… yes.
See “Operation Rescue”.
| 404 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:41:37pm |
re: #396 sagehen
I think Obama has a general sense that part of how we defeat the terrorists… is by not letting ourselves be terrorized.
The military is taking action against people who do us violence. For everybody else, our part in the fight against terror is to not live in terror, to just go about our lives secure in the belief that there will be a tomorrow and next week and next month.
The administration is not doing frothing press conferences, and raising color codes, and whipping up fervor, all of which is a big change from how the previous administration did things, and that bothers people who approved of how the previous administration did things.
Post 9/11, bush did much the same thing (not letting ourselves be terrorized) by saying we should go about our ‘normal” business. The raising color codes, “whipping up ferver” was in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. the country was in unchartered territory. A year and a half later here were daily driefings by Rumsfeld re: the war in Iraq, the war was live and in color 24/7, so that was needed (imho). in fact, the media clamoured for it
| 405 |
abolitionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:42:23pm |
re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist
I’m missing something. Thailand is less than five percent Muslim. Given the overwhelming Buddhist majority, they must be doing something wrong if the only options are ‘convert or die’.
Violence in Thailand’s Muslim South Intensifies - VOA Story
Islamic Crusades 4: Lessons From the Thai Jihad
One hundred million folded cranes did not achieve anything.
| 406 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:43:11pm |
re: #391 JasonA
How does the Jewish population feel every time this is called a Christian nation? Or has the community just become numb to it?
Most Jews I know are annoyed by it. It’s a pretty clear sign of who the speaker considers ‘real’.
Some make excuses. Others feel included by the ‘Judeo-Christian’ dodge.
| 407 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:43:17pm |
re: #399 Dark_Falcon
That is a good point. But now I feel myself growing tired. Some my words may have been weariness talking. I’m going to go to bed and reevaluate my words in the morning. Sleep well, all.
nighty-night DF
| 408 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:43:50pm |
| 409 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:44:04pm |
re: #403 sagehen
Well… yes.
See “Operation Rescue”.
you’re right. blowing shit up and murdering people left and right, they are.
| 410 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:45:10pm |
re: #392 cliffster
welcome to my world.
cliffster: “I favor a smaller government and more self-reliance from the populace”
other guy: “Oh, you’re one of these abolish-the-fed and repeal-the-civil-rights-act guys, eh??”
Well, there is that, and I can play you the liberal version. But the Islam thing is…I dunno.
| 412 |
Four More Tears Thu, May 20, 2010 11:45:33pm |
re: #409 cliffster
you’re right. blowing shit up and murdering people left and right, they are.
No. They’re fucking cowards who pray for other people to do it.
| 413 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:45:35pm |
re: #406 SanFranciscoZionist
Most Jews I know are annoyed by it. It’s a pretty clear sign of who the speaker considers ‘real’.
Some make excuses. Others feel included by the ‘Judeo-Christian’ dodge.
I usually hear it refereed to as “Judeo/ Christian”, not just “a Christian” nation
| 414 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 11:46:11pm |
re: #386 sattv4u2
by that rational, discussing just about anything is pointless!
Not really. This brings us back to Maddow’s questions. “Would you have voted in favor of the Civil Rights Act of 1964?”, “Are you in favor of the desegregation of lunch counters?” are questions that have a very precise and substantive meaning, as well as clear policy implications.
As to point #2, no. Perhaps discussing it will assist in defining them
I’m sure the two of us could agree to a very precise definition of “radical Islam”. But that doesn’t really help people who are watching Holder and have their own understanding of the term.
And all this can be avoided. What’s wrong with the much more clear question “do you believe the Time Square bombers were Muslims who had religious motivations for the planned attack?”?
| 415 |
freetoken Thu, May 20, 2010 11:46:30pm |
re: #382 000G
Well, that was pretty dense with concepts, and I’m not sure I followed all of it.
| 416 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:46:48pm |
re: #406 SanFranciscoZionist
Most Jews I know are annoyed by it. It’s a pretty clear sign of who the speaker considers ‘real’.
Some make excuses. Others feel included by the ‘Judeo-Christian’ dodge.
You know. Maybe I’m wrong but. It’s always been my observation that American history and some of my own personal observations and experience has led me to conclude that this wasn’t exactly a Judeo-friendly society in the past. So now whenever I see this Judeo-Christian being trounced about I’m kind of miffed since it doesn’t seem to fit reality.
| 417 |
Four More Tears Thu, May 20, 2010 11:46:50pm |
re: #406 SanFranciscoZionist
Most Jews I know are annoyed by it. It’s a pretty clear sign of who the speaker considers ‘real’.
Some make excuses. Others feel included by the ‘Judeo-Christian’ dodge.
I’m actually glad to hear that most dislike it.
| 418 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:47:02pm |
re: #394 Gus 802
You’ll have to refresh my memory.
A bunch of U.S. or Brit or Canadian troops, I don’t remember, were going through some area up in the hill country, buying up weapons to try to lower the extreme armament of the local civilians.
This one dude had a Soviet tank, parked in his yard, and he wouldn’t let them have it. His late brother had taken it as a prize in battle, and it was a family heirloom.
I’ve thought of him, occasionally, ever since reading that.
| 419 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:47:16pm |
re: #406 SanFranciscoZionist
Most Jews I know are annoyed by it. It’s a pretty clear sign of who the speaker considers ‘real’.
Some make excuses. Others feel included by the ‘Judeo-Christian’ dodge.
Eventually, you will realize that we were right about Jesus. It’s an easy mistake to make.. very wise prophet or son of God. It could happen to anyone.
| 420 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:49:58pm |
re: #418 SanFranciscoZionist
A bunch of U.S. or Brit or Canadian troops, I don’t remember, were going through some area up in the hill country, buying up weapons to try to lower the extreme armament of the local civilians.
This one dude had a Soviet tank, parked in his yard, and he wouldn’t let them have it. His late brother had taken it as a prize in battle, and it was a family heirloom.
I’ve thought of him, occasionally, ever since reading that.
And to think I get pissed at a neighbor of mine that has had an old pick up truck on cider blocks in his yard for a couple of months!
| 421 |
Nimed Thu, May 20, 2010 11:51:46pm |
re: #391 JasonA
How does the Jewish population feel every time this is called a Christian nation? Or has the community just become numb to it?
This atheist thinks it sucks. This is kinda stupid, but the most emotional part of Obama’s inaugural address for me was the simple mention of non-believers.
| 422 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:51:59pm |
re: #413 sattv4u2
I usually hear it refereed to as “Judeo/ Christian”, not just “a Christian” nation
It’s not a phrase I care for. Judaism does not have a coequal role with Christianity in the United States, either historically, or in terms of modern political power, and implying that it does is cynical.
| 423 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, May 20, 2010 11:53:03pm |
re: #419 cliffster
Eventually, you will realize that we were right about Jesus. It’s an easy mistake to make.. very wise prophet or son of God. It could happen to anyone.
Both with beards, both about five foot four…
| 424 |
Four More Tears Thu, May 20, 2010 11:53:11pm |
re: #421 Nimed
This atheist thinks it sucks. This is kinda stupid, but the most emotional part of Obama’s inaugural address for me was the simple mention of non-believers.
I know, right? I think he slipped one in during the Cairo speech, too.
| 425 |
Bagua Thu, May 20, 2010 11:53:21pm |
re: #391 JasonA
How does the Jewish population feel every time this is called a Christian nation? Or has the community just become numb to it?
There is no monolithic Jewish population and a wide diversity of opinions on any subject, to say the least. I would expect the majority feel less than comfortable at the notion for various reasons.
| 427 |
Gus Thu, May 20, 2010 11:54:49pm |
| 428 |
cliffster Thu, May 20, 2010 11:55:22pm |
Time for attempt #2 at sleeping tonight. nighty night yall
| 429 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:56:01pm |
re: #422 SanFranciscoZionist
It’s not a phrase I care for. Judaism does not have a coequal role with Christianity in the United States, either historically, or in terms of modern political power, and implying that it does is cynical.
Not sure if it’s meant as being partners in the system , but rather in the building blocks from the beleif systems inherent in each as the foundation of the concept and the documents
| 430 |
sattv4u2 Thu, May 20, 2010 11:58:56pm |
GGGAAAHHHH ,,, you’re all leaving me!!
I have 7 HOURS left here at work
7 HOURS
99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottle of beer, if one of those bottles just happens to fall ,,,,,
| 431 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, May 20, 2010 11:59:09pm |
re: #429 sattv4u2
Not sure if it’s meant as being partners in the system , but rather in the building blocks from the beleif systems inherent in each as the foundation of the concept and the documents
The building blocks come from the code of hammurabi far more than the ten commandments. This nation does not endorse one religion over another (much as some would like to change that), any more than it endorses one eye color or one skin color over another.
| 432 |
Four More Tears Fri, May 21, 2010 12:00:29am |
| 433 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:03:07am |
re: #431 WindUpBird
The building blocks come from the code of hammurabi far more than the ten commandments. This nation does not endorse one religion over another (much as some would like to change that), any more than it endorses one eye color or one skin color over another.
Yup ,, right there in the Bill Of Rights and The Constitution
If a son strike his father, his hands shall be hewn off.
If a man strikes a pregnant woman, thereby causing her to miscarry and die, the assailant’s daughter shall be put to deathhmmm,, maybe not !!
| 434 |
Bagua Fri, May 21, 2010 12:04:24am |
re: #431 WindUpBird
The building blocks come from the code of hammurabi far more than the ten commandments. This nation does not endorse one religion over another (much as some would like to change that), any more than it endorses one eye color or one skin color over another.
One could argue that English common law was a more proximal and persuasive influence.
| 435 |
Nimed Fri, May 21, 2010 12:04:36am |
re: #424 JasonA
I know, right? I think he slipped one in during the Cairo speech, too.
:)
Oh man. That’s when you suddenly realize how years of exposition to the “Christian nation”, “one nation under God”, etc. stuff really affected you. Hey, I fucking exist! Thanks for that, BO.
| 436 |
Nimed Fri, May 21, 2010 12:07:56am |
| 437 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:08:34am |
re: #431 WindUpBird
The building blocks come from the code of hammurabi far more than the ten commandments. This nation does not endorse one religion over another (much as some would like to change that), any more than it endorses one eye color or one skin color over another.
oh ,, lets not forget THIS one
If during an unsuccessful operation a patient dies, the arm of the surgeon must be cut off.
Is that part of the new Health Care bill !?!?!
| 438 |
Bagua Fri, May 21, 2010 12:10:42am |
re: #437 sattv4u2
oh ,, lets not forget THIS one
If during an unsuccessful operation a patient dies, the arm of the surgeon must be cut off.
Is that part of the new Health Care bill !?!?!
Arm Panels!
| 439 |
Gus Fri, May 21, 2010 12:14:25am |
| 440 |
Four More Tears Fri, May 21, 2010 12:14:54am |
| 442 |
Four More Tears Fri, May 21, 2010 12:24:57am |
Low oil spill estimate could save BP millions in court, experts say
BP’s estimate that only 5,000 barrels of oil are leaking daily from a well in the Gulf of Mexico, which the Obama administration hasn’t disputed, could save the company millions of dollars in damages when the financial impact of the spill is resolved in court, legal experts say.A month after a surge of gas from the undersea well engulfed the Deepwater Horizon offshore drilling rig in flames and triggered the massive leak that now threatens sea life, fisheries and tourist centers in five Gulf Coast states, neither BP nor the federal government has tried to measure at the source the amount of crude pouring into the water.
BP and the Obama administration have said they don’t want to take the measurements for fear of interfering with efforts to stop the leaks.
That decision, however, runs counter to BP’s own regional plan for dealing with offshore leaks. “In the event of a significant release of oil,” the 583-page plan says on Page 2, “an accurate estimation of the spill’s total volume … is essential in providing preliminary data to plan and initiate cleanup operations.”
I’d comment, but some opinions are best kept to one’s self, especially when the internet is involved…
| 443 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:35:32am |
re: #442 JasonA
Low oil spill estimate could save BP millions in court, experts say
I’d comment, but some opinions are best kept to one’s self, especially when the internet is involved…
Whether it’s 5,000 barrels a day (BP’s estimate) or 3-4 times that number (worst case scenario/ doom and gloomer figures) won’t play a part in any court mandated clean up/ fines cost
What will matter is actual provable damages to industries (fishing, tourism) and ecology
| 444 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:37:04am |
{sigh}
98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottle of beer, if one of those bottles just happens to fall ,,,
| 445 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:38:49am |
oh ,,, look ,, I have belly button lint
Maybe I’ll start collecting it and knit a sweater!
| 446 |
Four More Tears Fri, May 21, 2010 12:41:43am |
re: #443 sattv4u2
Whether it’s 5,000 barrels a day (BP’s estimate) or 3-4 times that number (worst case scenario/ doom and gloomer figures) won’t play a part in any court mandated clean up/ fines cost
What will matter is actual provable damages to industries (fishing, tourism) and ecology
Are you sure about that?
The size of the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska, for example, was a significant factor that the jury considered when it assessed damages against Exxon.
I mean really sure?
| 447 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 21, 2010 12:41:50am |
re: #415 freetoken
Well, that was pretty dense with concepts, and I’m not sure I followed all of it.
Partially based on “Property Economics” as espoused by Steiger/Heinsohn (see e.g. in ISBN 3-89518-482-9).
My take on it is twofold, one that since government is needed for private contracts to be universally enforceable (i.e. also that property titles in regards to these contracts to be universally executed against) through the absolute rule of law before which all are equal (including the government!), it should follow that it is within the sovereign right of the government to define, in principle, what private contracts can extent to and what property rights can entitle to.
And that two, if you posit the freedom of property holders to be absolute and that their titles may not be touched by law (including the legal redefining of what contracts and titles can entail or touch) or law enforcement, that then the government is not sovereign and cannot reasonably be expected to uphold a civil society under the rule of law. But if there is no inclusion of the people under the common and universal rule of law by the government, the government seizes to be of any other use than protecting the rich against the poor.
| 448 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:42:12am |
97 bottles of beer on the wall, 97 bottle of beer, if one of those bottles just happens to fall ,,,
| 449 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:42:42am |
re: #446 JasonA
I mean really sure?
Yes ,,, the “SIZE” of the spill, not EXXONs “estimate” of the size of the spill
| 450 |
engineer cat Fri, May 21, 2010 12:46:08am |
re: #425 Bagua
There is no monolithic Jewish population and a wide diversity of opinions on any subject, to say the least. I would expect the majority feel less than comfortable at the notion for various reasons.
you’ve invoked, unintentionally i guess, a favorite joke that we hebrews like to tell about ourselves, that is, “if you have ten jews in a room you’ll get at least eleven opinions”.
:-)
having said that, i’d like to answer the original question, since, yes, i don’t like to hear the phrase ‘judeo-christian’ since it appears to sign us up for a lot of stuff that i, as a jew and as a bunch of other things, don’t agree with. also, judaism is not, i repeat, not the same religion as christianity, and furthermore it is not, i repeat, not, as a lot of people seem to think, mostly like christianity except that jews don’t believe jesus was the messsiah. not.
i say this desiring to make a clear distinction between the many different varieties of christians, ranging from righteous people who truly hear what jesus said to crazy assholes that i’m tempted to hit upside the head with a two-by-four
ok, you guys hit upon a pet peeve of mine and i’m finished venting now…
| 451 |
Four More Tears Fri, May 21, 2010 12:46:11am |
re: #449 sattv4u2
But their measurements are critical to determining how much oil has and will be spilled.
| 453 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:48:44am |
re: #451 JasonA
But their measurements are critical to determining how much oil has and will be spilled.
And their measurements will be questionaed and scrutinized by experts in a court of law to determine damages (read ,, $$$$)
So my point still stands. It matters not what BP’s “estimates” are.
Actually, I’ll self amend. It matters very little what they are
| 454 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 21, 2010 12:48:55am |
It’s weird that, even after the economic meltdown, there’s still this widely-held belief that private business is on the same level as any other private things, like opinion or religion or sexual preference and should therefore not be touched by the government. I think the recent events in the sphere of the global economy have proven beyond any shadow of doubt that private business actions always have very tangible consequences for the whole of a society.
| 455 |
freetoken Fri, May 21, 2010 12:50:17am |
re: #447 000G
OK, that is clearer. Similar ideas were brought up by some downstairs in the Paul threads.
| 456 |
Four More Tears Fri, May 21, 2010 12:50:23am |
re: #450 engineer dog
Hey, if you can’t vent on a late night LGF thread then where can you?
| 457 |
freetoken Fri, May 21, 2010 12:52:59am |
re: #454 000G
Without a doubt.
Yet there is a popular wave of libertarian fundamentalism in this country that refuses to acknowledge that private businesses can actually do harm to the public welfare.
| 458 |
engineer cat Fri, May 21, 2010 12:54:01am |
re: #456 JasonA
Hey, if you can’t vent on a late night LGF thread then where can you?
:-)
now if i could only get a scotch on the rocks here too we’d really have something
| 459 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 12:54:57am |
re: #458 engineer dog
:-)
now if i could only get a scotch on the rocks here too we’d really have something
While you’re up, make mine a Vodka, neat!
| 460 |
freetoken Fri, May 21, 2010 12:55:33am |
| 461 |
engineer cat Fri, May 21, 2010 12:55:39am |
re: #454 000G
It’s weird that, even after the economic meltdown, there’s still this widely-held belief that private business is on the same level as any other private things, like opinion or religion or sexual preference and should therefore not be touched by the government. I think the recent events in the sphere of the global economy have proven beyond any shadow of doubt that private business actions always have very tangible consequences for the whole of a society.
this is well said
| 462 |
Four More Tears Fri, May 21, 2010 12:58:12am |
re: #457 freetoken
Without a doubt.
Yet there is a popular wave of libertarian fundamentalism in this country that refuses to acknowledge that private businesses can actually do harm to the public welfare.
Commie!
Seriously, though, I can’t believe we’re having this discussion in 2010 with a contender for the US Senate. He needs to be asked what other standards gov’t shouldn’t thrust upon private businesses, like Equal Opportunity, and soon. If you’re going to allow a restaurant to not serve Latinos then I’m pretty sure you’re okay with it choosing not to hire them, either.
| 463 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 1:01:45am |
96 bottles of beer on the wall, 96 bottle of beer, if one of those bottles just happens to fall ,,,
| 464 |
freetoken Fri, May 21, 2010 1:02:30am |
re: #463 sattv4u2
Are you expounding on the concept of “Peak Beer”?
| 465 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 1:04:03am |
re: #464 freetoken
Are you expounding on the concept of “Peak Beer”?
It’s a race to see if I
A) pass out
B) have my bladder explode
C) get the song down to NONE
| 466 |
engineer cat Fri, May 21, 2010 1:05:58am |
| 467 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 1:34:33am |
re: #454 000G
It’s weird that, even after the economic meltdown, there’s still this widely-held belief that private business is on the same level as any other private things, like opinion or religion or sexual preference and should therefore not be touched by the government. I think the recent events in the sphere of the global economy have proven beyond any shadow of doubt that private business actions always have very tangible consequences for the whole of a society.
Very true. There are arguably plenty of criminal and regulatory statutes currently on the books which, if they would only be enforced, would deal with most if not all of the excesses of unbridled capitalism.
| 468 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 1:40:00am |
re: #463 sattv4u2
96 bottles of beer on the wall, 96 bottle of beer, if one of those bottles just happens to fall ,,,
95 bottles of beer on the wall…
Why did someone put all those bottles of beer on the wall in the first place?
Oy it’s too early…
| 469 |
Nimed Fri, May 21, 2010 1:44:37am |
re: #465 sattv4u2
It’s a race to see if I
A) pass out
B) have my bladder explode
C) get the song down to NONE
Hm, curious about this:
- Why can’t you go to the bathroom?
- What’s the deal with the multiple commas?
- Can you read a book while at work? If so, need a good recommendation?
| 470 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, May 21, 2010 2:19:23am |
re: #462 JasonA
Commie!
Seriously, though, I can’t believe we’re having this discussion in 2010 with a contender for the US Senate. He needs to be asked what other standards gov’t shouldn’t thrust upon private businesses, like Equal Opportunity, and soon. If you’re going to allow a restaurant to not serve Latinos then I’m pretty sure you’re okay with it choosing not to hire them, either.
It’s about freedom of choice: a restaurant can close its doors to the general public and declare itself a members-only private club with any sort of membership criteria it chooses.
But it cannot enjoy the benefits of being a public place of business and continue to restrict access based on race.
| 471 |
freetoken Fri, May 21, 2010 2:42:25am |
The last AGW entry had one of them show up, you know, the people who think they can sneak in the last word (usually with a dig at Charles) before a thread falls off the front page and no longer accepts comments.
Sigh….
| 472 |
freetoken Fri, May 21, 2010 2:44:05am |
And they try it in the middle of the night, when they think no one will notice.
| 473 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 2:57:20am |
re: #469 Nimed
Hm, curious about this:
- Why can’t you go to the bathroom?
- What’s the deal with the multiple commas?
- Can you read a book while at work? If so, need a good recommendation?
I was playing on the drinking theme of the song
-I CAN go to the bathroom
-I LIKE them
-Yes/ No
| 474 |
RogueOne Fri, May 21, 2010 3:38:33am |
re: #462 JasonA
Commie!
Seriously, though, I can’t believe we’re having this discussion in 2010 with a contender for the US Senate. He needs to be asked what other standards gov’t shouldn’t thrust upon private businesses, like Equal Opportunity, and soon. If you’re going to allow a restaurant to not serve Latinos then I’m pretty sure you’re okay with it choosing not to hire them, either.
Finally. I’ve been waiting and waiting for one of the smart kids to widen the scope of this argument. I figured it would be the ADA regs but EEOC is a good point.
I bet you won’t have any problem figuring out where I come down on both.
| 475 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 3:39:08am |
re: #471 freetoken
The last AGW entry had one of them show up, you know, the people who think they can sneak in the last word (usually with a dig at Charles) before a thread falls off the front page and no longer accepts comments.
Sigh…
I’ve never understood that (going on a dead thread to drop a comment, never mind a dig at Charles or anyone else)
That stated, as long as the comment doesn’t violate any of the ‘rules” what differnce does it make if they say something like
“not only is AGW hogwash, but the polar caps are bigger than ever and I have to wear a sweater in the desert in August”
!?!?!
| 476 |
RogueOne Fri, May 21, 2010 3:40:52am |
re: #457 freetoken
Without a doubt.
Yet there is a popular wave of libertarian fundamentalism in this country that refuses to acknowledge that private businesses can actually do harm to the public welfare.
There is a popular wave of liberalism in this country that refuses to acknowledge government interference can actually do more harm than good to the public welfare. I guess as long as the intentions are good that’s all that really matters.
| 477 |
RogueOne Fri, May 21, 2010 3:42:01am |
Everyone enjoy their day, I’m off for the duration. I’ll be back later to let you folks try to slap me around.
| 478 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, May 21, 2010 3:44:46am |
re: #476 RogueOne
There is a popular wave of liberalism in this country that refuses to acknowledge government interference can actually do more harm than good to the public welfare. I guess as long as the intentions are good that’s all that really matters.
Would it have been more harmful to the public welfare not to bail out the banks? Would it have been less harmful to just regulate them so that the situation did not arise?
The second a bank, agency, restaurant, shore or venue opens its doors to the “general public”, it loses its right to discriminate on race. I can refuse to let people into my living roombased on race, but I am not doing business there.
| 480 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 3:46:47am |
re: #476 RogueOne
There is a popular wave of liberalism in this country that refuses to acknowledge government interference can actually do more harm than good to the public welfare. I guess as long as the intentions are good that’s all that really matters.
And the big difference is if a business fucks it up it won’t last
If gov’t fucks up, it just keeps chugging along
| 481 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 21, 2010 3:47:14am |
Good morning.
This Blumenthal fellow, IMHO, is but one hooker shy from being indistinguishable from Spitzer. Bad for CT, bad for America. Another bully acting with apparent impunity.
| 483 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 3:52:39am |
re: #481 Taqyia2Me
Good morning.
This Blumenthal fellow, IMHO, is but one hooker shy from being indistinguishable from Spitzer. Bad for CT, bad for America. Another bully acting with apparent impunity.
Lighten up. Anyone can confuse being in a war zone and “misspeak”
/
| 484 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 3:55:13am |
| 485 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 21, 2010 3:56:50am |
re: #483 sattv4u2
Lighten up. Anyone can confuse being in a war zone and “misspeak”
/
Heh, after googling Gina Malapanis, I thought the Salem Witch hunt was back on.
| 486 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 3:57:40am |
re: #478 ralphieboy
Would it have been more harmful to the public welfare not to bail out the banks?
YES ,,it would have been more harmful to NOT do TARP. That stated, that was a one time (hopefully) emergency measure, NOT an ongoing policy
Would it have been less harmful to just regulate them so that the situation did not arise?
They were (and are) already regulated. If you mean MORE regulated, we will never know for sure
The second a bank, agency, restaurant, shore or venue opens its doors to the “general public”, it loses its right to discriminate on race. I can refuse to let people into my living roombased on race, but I am not doing business there.
| 487 |
Nimed Fri, May 21, 2010 3:58:11am |
re: #477 RogueOne
Everyone enjoy their day, I’m off for the duration. I’ll be back later to let you folks try to slap me around.
lol Not only have you been “slapped around” repeatedly already, you know very little about the exact rights Rand Paul and Maddow were discussing (you have permanently confused their discussion with one about 1st amendment rights, for instance).
| 488 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:02:11am |
re: #485 Taqyia2Me
Heh, after googling Gina Malapanis, I thought the Salem Witch hunt was back on.
I’m reading some of the links now
Aside from the 18 million shes been awarded from the state, is she pursuing Blumenthal personally? OR,, he’s probably covered because he was acting for the state when he went after her (company)
| 489 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 21, 2010 4:13:49am |
re: #488 sattv4u2
I’m reading some of the links now
Aside from the 18 million shes been awarded from the state, is she pursuing Blumenthal personally? OR,, he’s probably covered because he was acting for the state when he went after her (company)
I don’t know if she can/will go after him personally. But, among this case, his ‘Nam ‘misspokes’, the Dodd Countrywide scam and the AIG miscarriage of justice, we’re looking at a fellow thoroughly unworthy of public service, IMHO.
| 490 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:14:28am |
the U.N. would investigate whether the attack violated the Korean War truce.
news.yahoo.com
A South Korean vessel sits at the bottom of the sea, (from the article)
While it was “premature” to discuss exact options or actions that will be taken in response, Clinton said it was “important to send a clear message to North Korea that provocative actions have consequences.
“The evidence is overwhelming and condemning. The torpedo that sunk the Cheonan … was fired by a North Korean submarine,” she told reporters.
and the UN is checking if the attack violates a TRUCE!?!?
How about that it was an ATTACK!
So, if the UN finds 9somehow) that it does NOT violate THE truce, what,, no problem?? The Norks just issue a “MY BAD” and skil merrily along !!?!?!
WTF !!
| 491 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:15:32am |
re: #489 Taqyia2Me
I don’t know if she can/will go after him personally. But, among this case, his ‘Nam ‘misspokes’, the Dodd Countrywide scam and the AIG miscarriage of justice, we’re looking at a fellow thoroughly unworthy of public service, IMHO.
I dunno ,,,, McDonalds needs drive-thru service attendants!
| 492 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:16:58am |
Good morning LGF folks. Another Maddow thread I see.
| 493 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:17:17am |
re: #489 Taqyia2Me
I don’t know if she can/will go after him personally. But, among this case, his ‘Nam ‘misspokes’, the Dodd Countrywide scam and the AIG miscarriage of justice, we’re looking at a fellow thoroughly unworthy of public service, IMHO.
actually , Chrystal Ball Time
He loses his senate bid and escapes a personal lawsuit from Malapnis. He ends up as a “guest lecturer” at some Ivy League colleges school of law
| 494 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:17:46am |
re: #492 Jetpilot1101
Good morning LGF folks. Another Maddow thread I see.
That was so, like ,,, HOURS ago
| 495 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 21, 2010 4:18:10am |
re: #491 sattv4u2
I dunno ,,, McDonalds needs drive-thru service attendants!
Heh, at least at that point, it won’t be our tax dollars paying his way!
| 497 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:18:36am |
re: #494 sattv4u2
That was so, like ,,, HOURS ago
Yes I know but I usually get on here in the morning. Too much going on at night for me to stare at a computer.
| 498 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:20:33am |
re: #496 sattv4u2
Any new word on your daughter?
So far so good. She is all done with procedures and the docs are leaning towards something called fappa syndrome. Nothing too major though, it’s pretty rare and the cure is removal of tonsils and adnoids. We need to track her health for a few months but most likely we’ll all be in Boston as a Family in a few months for her surgery and close that chapter in our life.
| 499 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:21:37am |
re: #497 Jetpilot1101
Yes I know but I usually get on here in the morning. Too much going on at night for me to stare at a computer.
I understand. I’m not generally on at night, but i’m doing my turn on overnight shift here at work. Typically 10 p.m till 10 a.m
| 500 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:23:17am |
re: #498 Jetpilot1101
So far so good. She is all done with procedures and the docs are leaning towards something called fappa syndrome. Nothing too major though, it’s pretty rare and the cure is removal of tonsils and adnoids. We need to track her health for a few months but most likely we’ll all be in Boston as a Family in a few months for her surgery and close that chapter in our life.
AMEN ,
Keep me posted. I may be in Boston around the same time (I was born and raised and still have family there) and visit frequently
| 501 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 21, 2010 4:23:22am |
re: #498 Jetpilot1101
My thoughts, prayers and well wishes will continue for you all…
| 502 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:25:22am |
| 503 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:27:26am |
OT: Futures are sinking fast. Dow going significantly below 10000 or closing there is a huge phsycological smackdown to the markets. We could be looking at another market meltdown in the making.
| 504 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:29:36am |
re: #503 Jetpilot1101
OT: Futures are sinking fast. Dow going significantly below 10000 or closing there is a huge phsycological smackdown to the markets. We could be looking at another market meltdown in the making.
HURRY ,,, pass another STIMULUS !!
//
| 505 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:31:42am |
| 506 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:33:27am |
| 507 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:37:12am |
re: #506 sattv4u2
I’m no prognosticator but I think this summer is going to suck for the market. Housing and commercial real estate are also going to take it in the shorts. Not a bad time to scoop up some bargains on high quality stocks but it looks like folks aren’t going to open their 401K statements for a few months.
| 508 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:39:10am |
re: #507 Jetpilot1101
I’m no prognosticator but I think this summer is going to suck for the market. Housing and commercial real estate are also going to take it in the shorts. Not a bad time to scoop up some bargains on high quality stocks but it looks like folks aren’t going to open their 401K statements for a few months.
Those are exactly two of the three things I’m actively doing
The third is mulling over buying more property. For awhile, I thought I may have missed the “bottoming out”, but apparently not
| 509 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:44:10am |
re: #508 sattv4u2
Those are exactly two of the three things I’m actively doing
The third is mulling over buying more property. For awhile, I thought I may have missed the “bottoming out”, but apparently not
I don’t think you missed the bottoming out at all. In my opinion, hold on to your dry powder IRT real estate; things are going to get a lot worse.
My favorite dividend paying stock is taking a whooping. Quality company but when the markets tank, everything tanks. Hope to get some more but I’m holding off until DOW 8000 or so.
| 510 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 4:45:12am |
Did a quick day trade of FAZ yesterday for a few bucks. Might try it again today.
| 511 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 4:47:38am |
Thar’s gold in that vending machine
DUBAI - It’s the ultimate hole-in-the-wall — a money machine that dispenses pure gold.
But installed beneath the gold-coated ceilings of Abu Dhabi’s Emirates Palace hotel, where royalty and billionaires come for cappuccinos topped with gold flakes, the machine almost seems part of the furniture.
“The reason we chose Emirates Palace is because it really fits with the surroundings here,” said German entrepreneur Thomas Geissler, creator of the “Gold to Go” brand and chief executive of Ex Oriente Lux.
The exterior of the machine is coated with a thin layer of gold and offers customers 320 items to choose from, ranging from gold bars that can weigh up to 10 grams, to customized gold coins.
“All the gold is imported from Germany, and soon we will have a customized gold bar with a print of the Emirates Palace logo, which will be a nice souvenir for guests to take home,” said Geissler.
Through a computer system, the ATM gold machine updates the gold price every 10 minutes to match international markets.
| 512 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:51:58am |
re: #510 Boogberg
Did a quick day trade of FAZ yesterday for a few bucks. Might try it again today.
I never hold those overnight but they are good for daytrades. Personally, I daytrade the OTCBB and Pinksheets because they have no connection to overall market sentiment. To quote a wise trader: “$500 in profits a day keeps the job away”.
| 513 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:54:30am |
re: #512 Jetpilot1101
To quote a wise trader: “$500 in profits a day keeps the job away”.
How does that work exactly. At the end of the day you meet some guy named Vinnie in the park and he hands you a brown paper back with unmarked bills??
///
| 514 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 4:56:26am |
re: #513 sattv4u2
To quote a wise trader: “$500 in profits a day keeps the job away”.
How does that work exactly. At the end of the day you meet some guy named Vinnie in the park and he hands you a brown paper back with unmarked bills??
///
I wish it was that easy.
| 515 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 4:58:20am |
re: #512 Jetpilot1101
$500 a day is sweet. If you’re making anything close to that you’re doing well.
| 516 |
rwdflynavy Fri, May 21, 2010 5:01:05am |
Good Morning to Charles’ Private Reptilian Army!
| 517 |
Jetpilot1101 Fri, May 21, 2010 5:01:20am |
re: #515 Boogberg
$500 a day is sweet. If you’re making anything close to that you’re doing well.
I’m not quite there yet but hoping to get there eventually. I still have a full time job for the foreseeable future.
| 518 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 5:02:52am |
re: #516 rwdflynavy
Good Morning to Charles’ Private Reptilian Army!
can we make more money if we go public!?!?!
| 521 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 5:10:33am |
re: #517 Jetpilot1101
Well good luck! I don’t have enough cash to pattern daytrade but I’ve always found it very interesting.
| 522 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 5:25:48am |
94 bottles of beer on the wall, 94 bottle of beer, if one of those bottles just happens to fall ,,,,
| 523 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 5:35:20am |
re: #522 sattv4u2
94 bottles of beer on the wall, 94 bottle of beer, if one of those bottles just happens to fall ,,,
I like “take one down and pass it around” better. :D
| 524 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 5:35:58am |
Hezbollah mobilises militants for Israel drill
BEIRUT (AFP) – Hezbollah mobilised thousands of militants in southern Lebanon on Friday in response to week-long Israeli defence exercises due to kick off on Sunday, an official from the Shiite militia group said.
“The Hezbollah fighters have (been instructed) to be completely ready to confront Israeli manoeuvres on Sunday,” Nabil Qaouk told AFP.
“Thousands of our fighters will not go to the polls (for municipal elections on Sunday) and will be prepared from today” for any eventuality, he added.
“In the event of any new attack on Lebanon, the Israelis will not find anywhere in Palestine to hide,” he said.
| 525 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 5:37:03am |
re: #522 sattv4u2
94 bottles of beer on the wall, 94 bottle of beer, if one of those bottles just happens to fall ,,,
…it will either break or get too shaken up to immediately open.
| 526 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 5:38:06am |
re: #523 Boogberg
I like “take one down and pass it around” better. :D
i hired a cheap carpenter. All the shelves were crooked (as was he!!)
| 527 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, May 21, 2010 5:40:03am |
now that he has won something significant, rand paul is now officially “Lizard food.”
bye bye rand …
| 529 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 5:44:37am |
re: #527 _RememberTonyC
now that he has won something significant, rand paul is now officially “Lizard food.”
bye bye rand …
Not to open up a can of worms (oh hell,, who am I kidding)
BUT ,,, I’m finding it kind of amusing.
IF Paul were to win a senate seat he would be 1 of 100. I didn’t see the same horror when Bernie Sanders, a self described socialist, was elected 4 years ago
NO ,,, I don’t want to get into a nit picking comparison between the two. I think each has from the opposite perspective some terrible ideas for America.
All that stated, I have no affinity for Paul, nor do I have much fear or animus against him
| 530 |
Ericus58 Fri, May 21, 2010 5:45:00am |
Futures Hit ‘Flash-Crash’ Levels on Euro Fears
“Friday was looking to be another worrisome day as futures fell below the intraday plunge of the May 6 “flash crash” that saw the Dow plunge nearly 1,000 points.”
Uhhhh, is it time to re-think my portfolio?!
“….mama…………”
| 531 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 21, 2010 5:46:55am |
re: #527 _RememberTonyC
I wonder if the Kentucky GOP will pull something like the NJ Toricelli magically becomes Lautenberg move?
| 532 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 5:46:56am |
re: #530 Ericus58
Futures Hit ‘Flash-Crash’ Levels on Euro Fears
[Link: www.cnbc.com…]
“Friday was looking to be another worrisome day as futures fell below the intraday plunge of the May 6 “flash crash” that saw the Dow plunge nearly 1,000 points.”
Uhhh, is it time to re-think my portfolio?!
“…mama…”
Gold is still rising!!
(just sayin!)
| 533 |
Ericus58 Fri, May 21, 2010 5:49:22am |
re: #532 sattv4u2
Gold is still rising!!
(just sayin!)
If liquidity fears grip the markets, look for a possible sell-off in that thar gold…
| 534 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, May 21, 2010 5:50:19am |
re: #529 sattv4u2
Not to open up a can of worms (oh hell,, who am I kidding)
BUT ,,, I’m finding it kind of amusing.IF Paul were to win a senate seat he would be 1 of 100. I didn’t see the same horror when Bernie Sanders, a self described socialist, was elected 4 years ago
NO ,,, I don’t want to get into a nit picking comparison between the two. I think each has from the opposite perspective some terrible ideas for America.
All that stated, I have no affinity for Paul, nor do I have much fear or animus against him
Sat …. how are ya …. me and the boys are going to game 3 tomorrow at the gahden … hopefully those guys from ESPN will put a shot of us cheering on the air.
paul and his ilk are scumbags, but not everyone who goes to a tea party is a bad person. The moderates need to find out what drives those people and coopt the best issues … it’s not brain surgery. that is what I expect will happen. but no GOPer other than romney has a chance against Obama, unless we go into a depression. Mitt is the only one with any gravitas at all.
| 535 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, May 21, 2010 5:51:53am |
re: #531 Taqyia2Me
I wonder if the Kentucky GOP will pull something like the NJ Toricelli magically becomes Lautenberg move?
refresh my memory … what happened there?
| 537 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 6:01:38am |
re: #474 RogueOne
Finally. I’ve been waiting and waiting for one of the smart kids to widen the scope of this argument. I figured it would be the ADA regs but EEOC is a good point.
I bet you won’t have any problem figuring out where I come down on both.
Since you have yet to figure out the difference between constitutionally protected speech and constitutionally unprotected conduct, you are absolutely right: you’ll be on the wrong side of the issue.
| 538 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:09:34am |
re: #537 garhighway
Since you have yet to figure out the difference between constitutionally protected speech and constitutionally unprotected conduct, you are absolutely right: you’ll be on the wrong side of the issue.
Tired here (end of a 12 hour overnight shift) so please bare with me
What is “unprotected conduct” that is constitutional?
| 539 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 6:16:26am |
re: #538 sattv4u2
Tired here (end of a 12 hour overnight shift) so please bare with me
What is “unprotected conduct” that is constitutional?
Constitutionally unprotected conduct is (for example) forbidding blacks from eating at your lunch counter, if you run a place of public accomodation. Or refusing to rent an apartment at your apartment complex to Mormons.
Constitutionally protected speech is saying that blacks are stupid. Or Mormons the agents of Satan.
The former is a legitimate area for federal legislation. (Hence Title Two of the 64 CRA.) The latter, however unattractive in the particulars, is not, due to the utterly appropriate strictures of the First Amendment.
Rogue’s position seems to be that they are one and the same: that property rights trump civil rights and that conduct equals speech. That position is wrong.
| 540 |
ShaunP Fri, May 21, 2010 6:19:39am |
| 542 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:20:20am |
| 544 |
prairiefire Fri, May 21, 2010 6:20:47am |
Rand Paul wonders when his honeymoon with the press will begin:abcnews.go.com
| 545 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:21:11am |
re: #539 garhighway
Yeah ,, I got all the rest, just that the phrase Constitutionally unprotected conduct looks/ is awkward
| 546 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 6:21:48am |
re: #539 garhighway
Also, Rogue keeps focusing on the freedom of association, which has very little to do with businesses refusing to serve blacks, as the owners are unlikely to be present and forced to associate— unless his claim is not based in property rights at all, but in the freedom to associate of the employees, it’s completely irrelevant.
Rogue has an extremely minarchist view of the government, so this shouldn’t be a surprise. I admit being mildly surprised (and disappointed) by his febrile posting on this subject, because I thought he had more pragmatism in him.
In his defense, I don’t think there’s anything racist in his view. I think he’d also prefer to have no health inspectors, no building inspectors, etc. So I do not think there is any hint of this being about race, for Rogue.
| 547 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 6:22:06am |
Morning Terror Thought Honco Infidels.
| 548 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:22:07am |
re: #544 prairiefire
Mwahahahaha! He’s got no chance at a honeymoon. Or even a nonadversarial relationship with the msm.
| 549 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:23:49am |
re: #546 Obdicut
I think he’d also prefer to have no health inspectors, no building inspectors, etc. So I do not think there is any hint of this being about race, for Rogue.
I don’t think/ see that at all
More efficient, yes. But NONE, no
| 550 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 6:24:29am |
re: #549 sattv4u2
Okay. Well, we can ask him.
| 551 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:25:27am |
re: #547 Cannadian Club Akbar
That just cracks me up. Mornin’.
| 552 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:26:14am |
re: #549 sattv4u2
What’s with you and the 12 hr shifts? Doing an upgrade?
| 553 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 6:27:57am |
re: #552 pingjockey
What’s with you and the 12 hr shifts? Doing an upgrade?
The other dishwasher called in sick. Wait, what?
///
| 554 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 6:28:15am |
| 555 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:29:00am |
re: #553 Cannadian Club Akbar
Heh. We’re doing inventory, I’d rather have a root canal!
| 556 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 6:29:30am |
Whatever Germany does, the euro as we know it is dead
For Angela Merkel, leader of the eurozone’s richest country, a queue is forming of high-quality adversaries. As she tips German Geld und Gut into the furnace of a rescue package for the euro, while going it alone in a misguided ban on market “manipulators”, the brass-neck Chancellor has infuriated domestic voters, angered her EU partners (in particular the French) and invited the so-called wolf pack of global traders to do its worst.
In one respect, Mrs Merkel is right: “The euro is in danger… if the euro fails, then Europe fails.” What she has not yet admitted publicly is that the main cause of the single currency’s peril appears beyond her control and therefore her impetuous response to its crisis of confidence is doomed to fail.
The euro has many flaws, but its weakest link is Greece, whose fundamental problem is that for years it spent too much, earned too little and plugged the gap by borrowing in order to enjoy a rich man’s lifestyle. It flouted EU rules on the limits to budget deficits; its national accounts were a moussaka of minced statistics, topped with a cheesy sauce of jiggery-pokery.
…What was once deemed unthinkable is now, I believe, inevitable: withdrawal from the eurozone of one or more of its member countries. At the bottom end, Greece and Portugal are favourites to be forced out through weakness. At the top end, proposals are already being floated in the Frankfurt press for a new “hard currency” zone, led by Germany, Austria and the Benelux countries. Either way, rich and poor are heading in opposite directions.
| 557 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:29:38am |
re: #550 Obdicut
Okay. Well, we can ask him.
and btw,,, i believe you will find that the vast majority of those that lean right to those that tip totally over right feel that way
| 558 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 6:30:26am |
re: #546 Obdicut
Also, Rogue keeps focusing on the freedom of association, which has very little to do with businesses refusing to serve blacks, as the owners are unlikely to be present and forced to associate— unless his claim is not based in property rights at all, but in the freedom to associate of the employees, it’s completely irrelevant.
Rogue has an extremely minarchist view of the government, so this shouldn’t be a surprise. I admit being mildly surprised (and disappointed) by his febrile posting on this subject, because I thought he had more pragmatism in him.
In his defense, I don’t think there’s anything racist in his view. I think he’d also prefer to have no health inspectors, no building inspectors, etc. So I do not think there is any hint of this being about race, for Rogue.
I think it is pointless to speculate about motivation. If are talking about the law, he’s wrong. And so far wrong that the point isn’t reasonably arguable.
| 559 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:30:46am |
re: #552 pingjockey
What’s with you and the 12 hr shifts? Doing an upgrade?
Nope,,, 2 months ago one guy got fired
There are 4 of us that work here (excluding the manager who pitches in when needed) for a place that is mandated by the FCC to be staffed 24/7
YOU do the math!
| 560 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:30:49am |
re: #554 Mad Al-Jaffee
That looks like an ad from the back of a comic book. Remember, if you’re old enough, the ad for the submarine you could build yourself?
| 561 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:32:07am |
re: #553 Cannadian Club Akbar
The other dishwasher called in sick. Wait, what?
///
And the next time you stick your used gum under the bowl ,, NO SOUP FOR YOU!!
| 562 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 6:32:23am |
re: #557 sattv4u2
and btw,,, i believe you will find that the vast majority of those that lean right to those that tip totally over right feel that way
Feel what way?
| 563 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:32:33am |
re: #559 sattv4u2
Gaah! My bro works for Comcast(?) was TCI, he has to do his maintenance at the down link site at o dark thirty.
| 564 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:33:49am |
re: #562 Obdicut
Feel what way?
That we would prefer gov’t to be more efficeint and less bloated
NOT that we don’t want health inspectors, no building inspectors, etc. as you have attributed to Rogue
| 565 |
Nimed Fri, May 21, 2010 6:36:24am |
re: #546 Obdicut
Also, Rogue keeps focusing on the freedom of association, which has very little to do with businesses refusing to serve blacks, as the owners are unlikely to be present and forced to associate— unless his claim is not based in property rights at all, but in the freedom to associate of the employees, it’s completely irrelevant.
Rogue has an extremely minarchist view of the government, so this shouldn’t be a surprise. I admit being mildly surprised (and disappointed) by his febrile posting on this subject, because I thought he had more pragmatism in him.
In his defense, I don’t think there’s anything racist in his view. I think he’d also prefer to have no health inspectors, no building inspectors, etc. So I do not think there is any hint of this being about race, for Rogue.
Actually, it would be nice if the differences with RogueOne were only about philosophical outlooks. But he seems to know very little of what he is talking about. And it’s not just confusing amendments. For instance, he said that the 1964 Civil Rights Act is “a law based on peoples beliefs. It’s the same problem I have with hate crimes laws.”.
littlegreenfootballs.com
This is simply wrong. Hate crime laws do require establishment of “beliefs” and motive. Anti-discrimination laws don’t.
| 566 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 6:36:43am |
re: #564 sattv4u2
Okay. I’m unsure why you’re telling me this, since obviously I’m only talking about Rogue, not people who lean right-wing. I made no statements about the right-wing in general.
I also think everyone would prefer government be more efficient and less bloated. That’s not a hard sell.
The question is what qualifies as ‘bloat’, and how much to prioritize efficiency over results.
| 568 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:36:50am |
Ruh roh. Any Bears fans out there? Urlacher was talking out of school. Dissed Gale Sayers. Wrong move, pissed off Ditka and Butkus.
| 569 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 6:38:57am |
re: #560 pingjockey
That looks like an ad from the back of a comic book. Remember, if you’re old enough, the ad for the submarine you could build yourself?
Don’t remember that one, but I remember the episode of Get A Life where Chris and his father build a submarine and sail it in his bathtub.
| 570 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 6:39:52am |
re: #568 pingjockey
Ruh roh. Any Bears fans out there? Urlacher was talking out of school. Dissed Gale Sayers. Wrong move, pissed off Ditka and Butkus.
i thought it was the other way around…wasn’t Sayers running his mouth before Urlacher finally told him to pipe down?
i’m no Bears fan, but if i were an ex-player who hadn’t won a single playoff game, i’d try harder not to run my mouth. Urlacher has a point here…
| 571 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:40:36am |
re: #566 Obdicut
Okay. I’m unsure why you’re telling me this, since obviously I’m only talking about Rogue, not people who lean right-wing. I made no statements about the right-wing in general.
I also think everyone would prefer government be more efficient and less bloated. That’s not a hard sell.
The question is what qualifies as ‘bloat’, and how much to prioritize efficiency over results.
Because you asked !
littlegreenfootballs.com
| 572 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:41:08am |
re: #571 sattv4u2
that didn’t work right AT ALL
lemme try again
| 573 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:41:19am |
re: #569 Mad Al-Jaffee
Never saw “Get a life”. In the 60s, comic books would have ads for all kinds of stuff, like sell Grit, one of the ads was a submarine you could build in your backyard. In the very very fine print, it said “not a real submarine”. IIRC, it was made out of cardboard.
| 574 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:41:34am |
re: #566 Obdicut
Okay. I’m unsure why you’re telling me this, since obviously I’m only talking about Rogue, not people who lean right-wing. I made no statements about the right-wing in general.
I also think everyone would prefer government be more efficient and less bloated. That’s not a hard sell.
The question is what qualifies as ‘bloat’, and how much to prioritize efficiency over results.
Because you asked !
| 575 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 6:41:42am |
re: #17 Cato the Elder
“With whom you’ve had many previous issues”, you mean?
Buckley is not the point here. He later revised and said he regretted those views.
On another subject altogether: how is Rachel Maddow’s 20-minute attempt to get a “gotcha” (or, as I would put it, a straight answer) about private property and race out of Rand Paul (an attempt which I consider completely justified given his weasel words) any different as an intellectual ploy from Rep. Smith’s attempt to get a “gotcha” (or, as I would put it, a straight answer) about radical Islam out of Eric Holder?
I’ll go with “The Venue” for 500 Alex.
Also I fail to see why the straight answer Rep Smith wanted was anywhere near as important as the straight answer Rachel Maddow did was.
Maddow was after information about the nature of a man who wants to make up a full 1% of the upper most house of legislation in our nation. (It may not sound like much but these day one vote can mean a lot)
Smith was just after a sound byte.
| 576 |
SteveC Fri, May 21, 2010 6:42:20am |
*Looks at grill*
No troll pickin’s again, people? Too many more days with no meat and We’ll have to go all Donner Party on somebody.
| 577 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:43:14am |
re: #570 Aceofwhat?
Ya don’t dis quite possibly one of the top 5 running backs of all time. Mike and Mike just ran the clip. Sayers was correct, Da Bears need help. That said, I wouldn’t piss off Ditka and Butkus!
| 578 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 6:43:39am |
“Fringe” season finally was awesome.
Who is in 1st in the AL East?
///
| 579 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 6:44:05am |
re: #573 pingjockey
Never saw “Get a life”. In the 60s, comic books would have ads for all kinds of stuff, like sell Grit, one of the ads was a submarine you could build in your backyard. In the very very fine print, it said “not a real submarine”. IIRC, it was made out of cardboard.
They still had the Grit ads in the 70s comic books, and all kinds of interesting stuff. Including pet monkeys!
| 580 |
SteveC Fri, May 21, 2010 6:44:05am |
re: #573 pingjockey
Never saw “Get a life”. In the 60s, comic books would have ads for all kinds of stuff, like sell Grit, one of the ads was a submarine you could build in your backyard. In the very very fine print, it said “not a real submarine”. IIRC, it was made out of cardboard.
It is too a real submarine! it made it to the bottom of my uncle’s swimming pool!
Never came back up, but it is a submarine, after all!
| 581 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 6:44:10am |
re: #31 Cato the Elder
Nobody needs to answer my question in #17, by the way. The facts are plain: “gotcha” is good when you disagree with the person getting got, but bad and obnoxious and evil when you disagree with the would-be gotcha getter.
Just thought I’d point that out.
Cato I gave you a much belated answer due to the fact that I’d gone to sleep last night before you asked it.
| 583 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 6:45:40am |
re: #472 freetoken
And they try it in the middle of the night, when they think no one will notice.
Fuck’em, who gives a shit?
| 584 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 21, 2010 6:45:48am |
re: #535 _RememberTonyC
refresh my memory … what happened there?
Toricelli was a scandal plagued nominee who replaced at the last minute by Lautenberg, who won. Toricelli would have lost.
| 585 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:45:56am |
re: #580 SteveC
Mwahaha!. The old man wouldn’t let me blow my lawn mowing money on it. He thought Sgt. Rock and Haunted Tank comic books were a waste of money anyway.
| 586 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 6:46:14am |
re: #580 SteveC
It is too a real submarine! it made it to the bottom of my uncle’s swimming pool!
Never came back up, but it is a submarine, after all!
| 588 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 6:47:45am |
re: #571 sattv4u2
Okay. As I said, being against inefficiency and bloat are not in the least bit particular to the right wing, and indeed, I’d say that they’re not actually values held by many of the people who lean right.
The public option, for example, would be much more efficient way of dealing with health insurance than the mess of regulation we have and will have more of in the future, but in general, those on the ‘right-wing’ are against it— with some happy exceptions.
| 589 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 6:47:46am |
re: #577 pingjockey
Ya don’t dis quite possibly one of the top 5 running backs of all time. Mike and Mike just ran the clip. Sayers was correct, Da Bears need help. That said, I wouldn’t piss off Ditka and Butkus!
heh…i’m just jealous…my team hasn’t been successful in a long, long time…
(at least they’re not the Bungles anymore!)
| 590 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:48:27am |
re: #585 pingjockey
Dad did like Mad magazine, turned me onto the 3 stooges, marx bros, and…Monty Python!
| 591 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, May 21, 2010 6:48:54am |
re: #576 SteveC
*Looks at grill*
No troll pickin’s again, people? Too many more days with no meat and We’ll have to go all Donner Party on somebody.
We don’t need troll. I’ll grill up some hot dogs and burgers tonight.
| 592 |
pingjockey Fri, May 21, 2010 6:49:23am |
re: #589 Aceofwhat?
I hear you. Could be worse, I feel for Lion fans.
| 593 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 6:49:48am |
re: #588 Obdicut
I should clarify that: some on the ‘right’ are against the public option because they believe it will be less efficient. Mostly, however, the ideological opposition is to any expansion of government, even when it increases efficiency; i.e. any expansion of government at all is classified as ‘bloat’.
| 594 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 6:51:09am |
re: #593 Obdicut
I am against taxing me for not wanting into the system.
| 595 |
SteveC Fri, May 21, 2010 6:51:40am |
re: #591 Dark_Falcon
We don’t need troll. I’ll grill up some hot dogs and burgers tonight.
…and the Lizards were happy!
| 596 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:52:16am |
re: #593 Obdicut
I should clarify that: some on the ‘right’ are against the public option because they believe it will be less efficient. Mostly, however, the ideological opposition is to any expansion of government, even when it increases efficiency; i.e. any expansion of government at all is classified as ‘bloat’.
There’s no guarantee that centralizing something (straight public option) would make it more efficient
| 597 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 6:52:21am |
And now, commuting.
| 599 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 6:53:02am |
re: #575 jamesfirecat
I’ll go with “The Venue” for 500 Alex.
Also I fail to see why the straight answer Rep Smith wanted was anywhere near as important as the straight answer Rachel Maddow did was.
Maddow was after information about the nature of a man who wants to make up a full 1% of the upper most house of legislation in our nation. (It may not sound like much but these day one vote can mean a lot)
Smith was just after a sound byte.
Meh.
| 601 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 6:53:56am |
re: #566 Obdicut
Okay. I’m unsure why you’re telling me this, since obviously I’m only talking about Rogue, not people who lean right-wing. I made no statements about the right-wing in general.
I also think everyone would prefer government be more efficient and less bloated. That’s not a hard sell.
The question is what qualifies as ‘bloat’, and how much to prioritize efficiency over results.
Being against “bloat” is not a terribly bold stand.
In fact, I’d like to see a post in which someone stands steadfastly in FAVOR of “bloat”.
Often, when you get down to the true substance of the issue, what the “anti-bloater” is against is something more substantive, and their characterization of that particular thing as “bloat” is simply a mis-characterization masking a conclusion.
For example, some people consider the EPA to be an example of “bloat”. Usually, when they say that, they are not advocating that the EPA run more efficiently. They want it to cease to exist.
That’s not “bloat”.
| 602 |
SteveC Fri, May 21, 2010 6:55:04am |
Decreased food intake during hospital stays is an independent risk factor for hospital mortality
Oxford, UK, 21 May 2010 – New and universally applicable definitions of malnutrition are published in the current issue of Clinical Nutrition. These are the result of a major international collaboration that has been endorsed by ESPEN and the American nutrition society ASPEN. The importance of the work is emphasised by the unusual step that has been taken in arranging dual publication in Clinical Nutrition and the ASPEN journal JPEN. It is expected that these definitions will take precedence in much future work.
Can’t you people just say that hospital food is usually shitty and fix it!?!?!
| 603 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 6:55:24am |
Finally some common sense in local government.
D.C. Council appears to take proposed soda tax off the table
| 604 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:55:26am |
re: #575 jamesfirecat
Maddow was after information about the nature of a man who wants to make up a full 1% of the upper most house of legislation in our nation. (It may not sound like much but these day one vote can mean a lot)
Is she equally concerned and dogged about the nature of a man who is a self described socialist that NOW makes up 1% of the upper most house of legislation in our nation?
| 605 |
sattv4u2 Fri, May 21, 2010 6:56:04am |
| 607 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 6:59:22am |
re: #604 sattv4u2
Maddow was after information about the nature of a man who wants to make up a full 1% of the upper most house of legislation in our nation. (It may not sound like much but these day one vote can mean a lot)
Is she equally concerned and dogged about the nature of a man who is a self described socialist that NOW makes up 1% of the upper most house of legislation in our nation?
The problem is that if you look at America at the moment, are socialists a problem that we really have to worry about? We have Cuba in a box, China is one of our biggest trading partners, does it look like we’re about to become a socialist nation in any way shape or form?
Would you be willing to give me that racism is a bigger issue for Americans to worry about at the moment then socialism?
| 608 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 6:59:30am |
re: #601 garhighway
Being against “bloat” is not a terribly bold stand.
In fact, I’d like to see a post in which someone stands steadfastly in FAVOR of “bloat”.
Often, when you get down to the true substance of the issue, what the “anti-bloater” is against is something more substantive, and their characterization of that particular thing as “bloat” is simply a mis-characterization masking a conclusion.
For example, some people consider the EPA to be an example of “bloat”. Usually, when they say that, they are not advocating that the EPA run more efficiently. They want it to cease to exist.
That’s not “bloat”.
ok. “bloat” = overinflated govt employee salaries and pensions.
remind me why govt clerks need a union again? is the govt an evil private corporate enterprise?
| 609 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, May 21, 2010 6:59:47am |
re: #602 SteveC
Decreased food intake during hospital stays is an independent risk factor for hospital mortality
Can’t you people just say that hospital food is usually shitty and fix it!?!?!
Large institutions don’t work that way. They phrase everything in elaborate bureaucratic patois and must study everything first.
| 610 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 6:59:51am |
re: #599 Cato the Elder
Meh.
Holder gets a pass because he is an administration mouthpiece who is toeing the party line. That’s the difference IMO.
| 612 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:00:30am |
House Panel Rejects a Plan to Shift Detainees to Illinois
WASHINGTON — The House Armed Services Committee has dealt a blow to President Obama’s hopes to shutter the military prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, by unanimously approving legislation that would prohibit creating a detention center inside the United States.
The administration had asked Congress to approve about $350 million to buy and renovate a nearly empty prison in Thomson, Ill. The White House plan was to empty Guantánamo and transfer its detainees to Illinois — including 48 who would be held without trial as wartime prisoners.
But late Wednesday, the House committee unanimously approved a defense bill for 2011 that bans spending money to build or modify any facility inside the United States to house Guantánamo detainees, according to a summary of the bill.
It says the committee wants to see “a thorough and comprehensive plan that outlines the merits, costs, and risks associated with utilizing such a facility. No such plan has been presented to date. The bill prohibits the use of any funds for this purpose.”
Gitmo stays open for the foreseeable future. Closing it wasn’t as easy as Obama thought it would be.
| 614 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 7:01:47am |
re: #604 sattv4u2
Maddow was after information about the nature of a man who wants to make up a full 1% of the upper most house of legislation in our nation. (It may not sound like much but these day one vote can mean a lot)
Is she equally concerned and dogged about the nature of a man who is a self described socialist that NOW makes up 1% of the upper most house of legislation in our nation?
Is there a mystery there to be solved? What is it you want to know about Bernie that you don’t already know? He seems to be a pretty open book. You may not like the contents, but he’s easy to read.
Rand, on the other hand, is new to the stage and the electorate ought to be well-informed about his beliefs.
Hell, HE ought to get better informed about them, since they seem to be changing hourly as he discovers how unpalatable they are.
| 615 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 7:02:31am |
| 616 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:03:56am |
Good morning, everyone. Typical morning ritual for me…with one addition.
Wake up…
Turn on NPR…
Put water on for tea…
Use the bathroom…
Grab laptop from living room…
Return to bed to read morning headlines…
Sit on something wet…WTF? B-flat, why is there a partially gutted dead rat in my bed?
Even Banjo was like, “That’s fucking gross, dad.” The cat? He simply curled up next to me after I got done cleaning up his mess and went back to sleep.
| 617 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:04:57am |
re: #612 NJDhockeyfan
House Panel Rejects a Plan to Shift Detainees to Illinois
Gitmo stays open for the foreseeable future. Closing it wasn’t as easy as Obama thought it would be.
actually, that hardly bothers me at all. what i want is for everyone else who gnashed teeth about the obvious eeevil of the place to either continue at the same volume as before or apologize for their overwrought hysterics.
i won’t hold my breath, though.
| 618 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, May 21, 2010 7:05:21am |
re: #607 jamesfirecat
The problem is that if you look at America at the moment, are socialists a problem that we really have to worry about? We have Cuba in a box, China is one of our biggest trading partners, does it look like we’re about to become a socialist nation in any way shape or form?
Would you be willing to give me that racism is a bigger issue for Americans to worry about at the moment then socialism?
Absolutely not. Racism is still small and contained in this country (despite recent events). Socialism is part of the political philosophy of many members of the party in power. That makes it the bigger issue.
| 619 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:05:24am |
re: #616 darthstar
Good morning, everyone. Typical morning ritual for me…with one addition.
Wake up…
Turn on NPR…
Put water on for tea…
Use the bathroom…
Grab laptop from living room…
Return to bed to read morning headlines…
Sit on something wet…WTF? B-flat, why is there a partially gutted dead rat in my bed?Even Banjo was like, “That’s fucking gross, dad.” The cat? He simply curled up next to me after I got done cleaning up his mess and went back to sleep.
Maybe your cat can be loaned out to the WH.
| 620 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:05:55am |
re: #610 Spare O’Lake
Holder gets a pass because he is an administration mouthpiece who is toeing the party line. That’s the difference IMO.
Well, I was for Maddow getting a gotcha (straight answer) from Paul, and for Smith getting a gotcha (straight answer) from Holder, so what does that make me, some kind of weird zwitterion?
I’m a man without a party line!
| 621 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:06:17am |
re: #614 garhighway
Is there a mystery there to be solved? What is it you want to know about Bernie that you don’t already know? He seems to be a pretty open book. You may not like the contents, but he’s easy to read.
Rand, on the other hand, is new to the stage and the electorate ought to be well-informed about his beliefs.
Hell, HE ought to get better informed about them, since they seem to be changing hourly as he discovers how unpalatable they are.
off-topic. pursuing soundbite #1 is not so different from the pursuit of soundbite #2. both pursuits were legitimate, although Maddow’s was much more polished and professional, IMHO.
| 622 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:07:19am |
Border Security: As the administration condemns Arizona for cracking down on illegals, it’s training Arizona to do just that. It’s called the ICE 287(g) Program.
Homeland Security runs the federal program, which trains state and local police to identify and process criminal aliens for removal from the country. The ACLU gripes the program is “terrorizing immigrant communities,” and has urged the administration to abandon it.
But the administration isn’t listening. It’s signing up several more local law enforcement agencies for the program, which it touts as a success story. As a recent Homeland Security report gushed:
“The 287(g) Program has emerged as one of the agency’s most successful and popular partnership initiatives as more state and local leaders have come to understand how a shared approach to immigration enforcement can benefit their communities.”
Under the 2006 program, more than 1,100 cops with 71 state and local agencies have helped the feds round up more than 110,000 illegals, the report says. Nine Arizona law enforcement agencies have taken advantage of it. In fact, all of the agreements were inked while Janet Napolitano was Arizona governor.
This is the same Napolitano, who despite running the federal program now as Homeland Security chief, is slamming Arizona’s tough new immigration code as “bad law enforcement law.”
“That’s not the kind of law I would have signed,” she asserted, explaining that she dealt with “laws of that ilk” in Arizona before and that most police outfits were opposed to them.
In fact, most Arizona cops strongly support the new law — probably because, after training with border agents, they see it works.
| 623 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:08:33am |
| 624 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:08:51am |
re: #618 Dark_Falcon
Absolutely not. Racism is still small and contained in this country (despite recent events). Socialism is part of the political philosophy of many members of the party in power. That makes it the bigger issue.
“Part of the philosophy of many members of the party in power”
Wow….
Dude seriously?
You’re going to say that Dems are commies?
How many is “Many”? Exactly?
| 625 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 7:09:24am |
re: #607 jamesfirecat
The problem is that if you look at America at the moment, are socialists a problem that we really have to worry about? We have Cuba in a box, China is one of our biggest trading partners, does it look like we’re about to become a socialist nation in any way shape or form?
Would you be willing to give me that racism is a bigger issue for Americans to worry about at the moment then socialism?
America needs to get real about the Obamist post-racial fantasy and put the issue back in the box where it belongs, if possible.
| 626 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:10:23am |
re: #618 Dark_Falcon
Absolutely not. Racism is still small and contained in this country (despite recent events). Socialism is part of the political philosophy of many members of the party in power. That makes it the bigger issue.
Good morning, Mr. McCarthy.
| 627 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:11:02am |
re: #625 Spare O’Lake
America needs to get real about the Obamist post-racial fantasy and put the issue back in the box where it belongs, if possible.
If by that you mean that America should admit to itself that electing Obama hasn’t healed racism and in point of fact seems to have only brought the issue to a boil and now more than ever we need to be aware of the issue of racism then I… agree with you shockingly enough…
| 629 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 7:11:16am |
Updates in the West Memphis police shootings:
The two suspects also were killed. Authorities declined to identify them, but The Commercial Appeal talked to three people late Thursday who said they recognized their relatives and the van from photos and videos. They said one of the suspects was a 16-year-old boy and the other was his father.
Names and addresses of the suspects were not available at press time, but Colonel Brian Prickett, chief deputy with the Clinton County Sheriff’s Office, said he did not believe they were from Clinton County.“The van was registered to the white supremacy church in New Vienna,” Prickett said. “That church has not been open for a long time.”
New Vienna Police Chief James Holcomb said he has not seen any activity at the storefront church, located at 143 Main St. in New Vienna.
More than 10 years ago, Aryan Nation activity had been associated with the church, which at the time was known as the Church of Jesus Christ Christian.
| 630 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:12:00am |
re: #625 Spare O’Lake
America needs to get real about the Obamist post-racial fantasy and put the issue back in the box where it belongs, if possible.
The hide and ignore strategy…always effective. It worked for the Catholic Church for decades. It worked for the Bush administration with the economy. It can work now, too.
| 631 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, May 21, 2010 7:12:27am |
re: #616 darthstar
Good morning, everyone. Typical morning ritual for me…with one addition.
Wake up…
Turn on NPR…
Put water on for tea…
Use the bathroom…
Grab laptop from living room…
Return to bed to read morning headlines…
Sit on something wet…WTF? B-flat, why is there a partially gutted dead rat in my bed?Even Banjo was like, “That’s fucking gross, dad.” The cat? He simply curled up next to me after I got done cleaning up his mess and went back to sleep.
The cat doesn’t think of it as a mess. He thinks he’s bringing you a treat and proving his usefulness.
| 633 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:13:01am |
re: #623 Cannadian Club Akbar
In a related note, the President of Mexico is a douche.
yep.
“hey, i know my country is a big, seething bag of crap right now, but i have some nits to pick…”
| 634 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:13:27am |
| 635 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 7:14:37am |
| 636 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:14:38am |
re: #631 Dark_Falcon
The cat doesn’t think of it as a mess. He thinks he’s bringing you a treat and proving his usefulness.
Oh, I know that…I just prefer he leave me his gifts by the front door, where I can easily scoop them up and throw them in the trash.
| 637 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 7:15:37am |
re: #634 Cannadian Club Akbar
[Link: www.cnbc.com…]
Yeah. Guy says that cash is best. Problem - what currency? I do like the bit about short-term government bonds from countries with no debt problems
| 638 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:15:45am |
re: #629 Shiplord Kirel
Updates in the West Memphis police shootings:
Oh, dear. White supremacists actually went beyond planning stuff while drunk at a campfire and done gone went and did something?
I think some here owe the DHS an apology.
And on the other hand, I wonder how long Holder would waffle if asked whether right-wing ideology had anything to do with this…
| 639 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 7:16:23am |
re: #627 jamesfirecat
If by that you mean that America should admit to itself that electing Obama hasn’t healed racism and in point of fact seems to have only brought the issue to a boil and now more than ever we need to be aware of the issue of racism then I… agree with you shockingly enough…
Awareness of the issue is not the problem, there seems to be plenty of that on all sides. The problem now is containment.
| 640 |
yoshicastmaster Fri, May 21, 2010 7:16:28am |
ok it looks like maddow may have made a mistake here. And it’s such a large mistake that I worry it is intentional misrepresentation.
Maddow (2nd video): Rand said that “that the courier journal NEVER endorses republican candidates”
(emphasis added)
But looking back at the previous video,
Rand (1st video, 5:38): “they typically don’t endorse republicans”
Did I mss something somewhere else in the 1st video or does that seem like a large misrepresentation, especially since Maddow used the opportunity to run a list of republicans endorsed by the journal. “Never” is not what Rand said in the quote I remembered.
Now I typically love Maddow and I love that she nails people down on an issue so clearly, not allowing them to ignore the question, but this was disappointing.
Someone please help me regain my trust in Maddow!!
| 641 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:17:01am |
re: #603 Mad Al-Jaffee
Finally some common sense in local government.
D.C. Council appears to take proposed soda tax off the table
Yeah, although i don’t mind a tax on sugary soda. Apparently, though, they’re (shockingly) too stupid to write a law which excludes sport drinks and protein shakes. I mean, really.
Idiots.
| 642 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 7:18:01am |
re: #638 Cato the Elder
Oh, dear. White supremacists actually went beyond planning stuff while drunk at a campfire and done gone went and did something?
I think some here owe the DHS an apology.
And on the other hand, I wonder how long Holder would waffle if asked whether right-wing ideology had anything to do with this…
At the very least, the “illegal Mexican” angle has been bent right off the table, not surprising for a claim that was pulled out of thin air.
| 643 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:18:15am |
re: #638 Cato the Elder
Oh, dear. White supremacists actually went beyond planning stuff while drunk at a campfire and done gone went and did something?
I think some here owe the DHS an apology.
And on the other hand, I wonder how long Holder would waffle if asked whether right-wing ideology had anything to do with this…
heh. He might even *gasp* volunteer their association without having to be prompted!
| 644 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:18:31am |
re: #641 Aceofwhat?
Yeah, although i don’t mind a tax on sugary soda. Apparently, though, they’re (shockingly) too stupid to write a law which excludes sport drinks and protein shakes. I mean, really.
Idiots.
I think we pay enough taxes right now. How about cutting spending for a change?
| 645 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:19:16am |
re: #639 Spare O’Lake
Awareness of the issue is not the problem, there seems to be plenty of that on all sides. The problem now is containment.
I’d prefer eradication to containment.
Just to be clear, I don’t mean eradication of the people who hold those beliefs, but of the beliefs themselves.
I’m not sure how and people have been grappling with this problem for a long time, and I have no great suggestions. But if we contain we’re only passing the problem down the line. We need to do what we can reasonably do as a democracy to stop racist people from having their children to grow up to be racists also.
| 646 |
Reginald Perrin Fri, May 21, 2010 7:20:06am |
Rand Paul: Obama’s criticism of BP ‘un-American
“What I don’t like from the president’s administration is this sort of, ‘I’ll put my boot heel on the throat of BP,’” Rand said in an interview with ABC’s “Good Morning America.” “I think that sounds really un-American in his criticism of business.”
“And I think it’s part of this sort of blame-game society in the sense that it’s always got to be somebody’s fault instead of the fact that maybe sometimes accidents happen,” Paul said.
How dare that Kenyan criticize a fine American company like British Petroleum over a few gallons of oil being leaked.
/snark:off
| 647 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, May 21, 2010 7:21:08am |
re: #626 darthstar
Good morning, Mr. McCarthy.
I said socialist, not communist. They aren’t the same thing and I’m not saying that socialists are disloyal. I’m saying that their political philosophy leads to serious problems when implemented.
And with that, I’m off to an interview. I’ll be back late this afternoon.
| 648 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:21:18am |
re: #632 cliffster
Dow down below 10,000. House of cards.
And all my stock-playing Facebook friends are bitching and whining.
Anyone who actually still thinks that the paper-money profits they might make on Wall Street are worth more than the poofy pixels they’re printed with should realize that the whole thing is still likely to go kaboom! at some point.
We ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
| 649 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 7:21:23am |
re: #635 Killgore Trout
10,076 now. ticking up slowly
You got it polyanna ;)
Guess where money is not going right now.
| 650 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 7:21:33am |
re: #638 Cato the Elder
He’d probably waffle a looooong time if someone asked him whether “Radical Christianity” had anything to do with it.
| 651 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:21:45am |
re: #643 Aceofwhat?
heh. He might even *gasp* volunteer their association without having to be prompted!
Umm… do you guys still not get why we wanted to take the phrase “radical Islam” off the table?
To my knowledge it didn’t play well with Achmed six cammel, and so whenever our government used it we were breeding further resentment in the middle east.
In other words, you know how we were calling them “freedom fries?” Its just like that not saying “radical Islam” may sound silly but its a show of solidarity for the troops.
| 654 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 7:23:10am |
re: #630 darthstar
The hide and ignore strategy…always effective. It worked for the Catholic Church for decades. It worked for the Bush administration with the economy. It can work now, too.
Yeah man, by all means let it all hang out and damn the torpedoes…let’s all wallow in the whole bloody, stinking, toxic, mess and see if we can survive. Realistic efforts to contain explosive racial issues is bullshit - let’s party!
| 655 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:23:29am |
re: #644 NJDhockeyfan
I think we pay enough taxes right now. How about cutting spending for a change?
it’s pigovian. i don’t mind pigovian solutions. they can be elegant if applied correctly.
i DO mind pigovian solutions that are counted upon as sources of revenue…for example, raising the cigarette tax is going to depress smoking…which means that it won’t increase revenue.
When i lived in Illinois, they never seemed to understand that simple little premise.
| 656 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:24:19am |
re: #647 Dark_Falcon
I said socialist, not communist. They aren’t the same thing and I’m not saying that socialists are disloyal. I’m saying that their political philosophy leads to serious problems when implemented.
And with that, I’m off to an interview. I’ll be back late this afternoon.
Good luck, and please excuse my sarcasm. I just don’t think that the ‘socialism’ being supported by Democrats is nearly as bad as the ‘socialism’ most people think of when they hear that word.
| 657 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:24:29am |
re: #650 iossarian
He’d probably waffle a looong time if someone asked him whether “Radical Christianity” had anything to do with it.
I doubt that.
Criticizing one aspect of “Christianity” has not been shown to be bad for your health the way criticizing one aspect of “Islam” has.
| 658 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:25:32am |
re: #644 NJDhockeyfan
I think we pay enough taxes right now. How about cutting spending for a change?
Did you miss the news add about how we pay less taxes now on average than we have for a couple of decades?
Also what would you want to cut spending on?
| 659 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:25:38am |
re: #651 jamesfirecat
Umm… do you guys still not get why we wanted to take the phrase “radical Islam” off the table?
To my knowledge it didn’t play well with Achmed six cammel, and so whenever our government used it we were breeding further resentment in the middle east.
In other words, you know how we were calling them “freedom fries?” Its just like that not saying “radical Islam” may sound silly but its a show of solidarity for the troops.
hot tip: Achmed six camel is gunning for us regardless of our terminology.
| 660 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:25:47am |
Democrats point the finger at Obama’s chief of staff for immigration reform’s poor progress
Prospects for an immigration overhaul are fizzling this year and some Democratic lawmakers are focusing blame on the pugnacious Democratic operative who works just down the hall from President Obama.
Rahm Emanuel, White House chief of staff and longtime party strategist, has argued privately that it’s a bad time for Democrats to push an immigration bill, a potential land mine in the midst of a crucial midterm election year.
Emanuel’s stance, coupled with his long-held wariness about the politics of immigration, is emboldening key Democrats to come forward and ask that he step aside from the issue.
“There’s always a sense that no matter how hard we work, to get through the White House, we have to get through Rahm,” said U.S. Rep. Raul M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.). “I would like immigration not to be part of the chief of staff’s portfolio. It would make our ability to convince and access decision-makers in the White House a lot easier.”
| 661 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 7:25:50am |
re: #657 Cato the Elder
why the fuck am I agreeing with you so much lately?
| 662 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:26:20am |
re: #659 Aceofwhat?
hot tip: Achmed six camel is gunning for us regardless of our terminology.
So everyone in the middle east hates us and there is NOTHING we can do to make them like us?
| 663 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:26:32am |
re: #651 jamesfirecat
Umm… do you guys still not get why we wanted to take the phrase “radical Islam” off the table?
To my knowledge it didn’t play well with Achmed six cammel, and so whenever our government used it we were breeding further resentment in the middle east.
In other words, you know how we were calling them “freedom fries?” Its just like that not saying “radical Islam” may sound silly but its a show of solidarity for the troops.
Change your name to “Lames”, James.
| 664 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:27:01am |
re: #657 Cato the Elder
I doubt that.
Criticizing one aspect of “Christianity” has not been shown to be bad for your health the way criticizing one aspect of “Islam” has.
Give it time.
| 665 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 7:27:48am |
re: #662 jamesfirecat
So everyone in the middle east hates us and there is NOTHING we can do to make them like us?
Pull all of our troops out of any middle eastern country, declare that we do not recognize Israel’s sovereignty.. that would probably help.
| 666 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 7:28:42am |
re: #657 Cato the Elder
I doubt that.
Criticizing one aspect of “Christianity” has not been shown to be bad for your health the way criticizing one aspect of “Islam” has.
I disagree. I’m thinking of a reporter asking something like: “Do you think that there’s a kind of radical Christianity that’s driving the increase in this kind of incident?”
I think he’d do the same kind of waffling: “all extremism is bad, blah blah”. What do you think his response would be?
| 667 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:29:14am |
re: #662 jamesfirecat
So everyone in the middle east hates us and there is NOTHING we can do to make them like us?
Seems like we’ve made some good progress in Iraq. Do you really think it was linked to our terminology about the motives behind a splodeydope?
We could extricate ourselves from Mecca. Wasn’t that the original purported basis for complaint? I don’t know how legitimate the complaint was, or how much effect we’d really have if we complied, but at least if you drove at that subject you’d have a semblance of a point.
As opposed to the utter lack of a point you’re making here.
| 668 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 7:29:55am |
re: #608 Aceofwhat?
ok. “bloat” = overinflated govt employee salaries and pensions.
remind me why govt clerks need a union again? is the govt an evil private corporate enterprise?
I, too, am steadfastly opposed to bloat.
I also think that some government employees are overpaid. I also think that some private employees are overpaid.
I entirely agree with you on pensions: the way governments at all levels have screwed that up is a scandal the likes of which we have yet to truly understand. It is going to be very, very bad.
As for unions, I would respectfully submit to you that the people best positioned to know whether they need a union are the particular workers involved. The existence of a union isn’t an act of God. It is a response to events on the ground. But the existence of a union does not therefore require that the employer, whether public or private, knuckle under to a bad deal. There’s no law against employers having balls.
| 669 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 7:30:21am |
re: #645 jamesfirecat
I’d prefer eradication to containment.
Just to be clear, I don’t mean eradication of the people who hold those beliefs, but of the beliefs themselves.
I’m not sure how and people have been grappling with this problem for a long time, and I have no great suggestions. But if we contain we’re only passing the problem down the line. We need to do what we can reasonably do as a democracy to stop racist people from having their children to grow up to be racists also.
Well sure, no one can argue with that, but the problem is that you’ve got an explosive situation on your hands which needs to be contained NOW before it gets totally out of hand.
| 670 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:30:50am |
re: #659 Aceofwhat?
hot tip: Achmed six camel is gunning for us regardless of our terminology.
Hey Ace…I know you’re not a bigot…even in jest. These fuckers were white. Yes, it’s disturbing. Shouldn’t we spend a few more minutes feeling disturbed by self-described “Christian” racist killers, rather than simply reassuring ourselves that they’re not as bad as Muslims?
| 671 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:30:58am |
re: #665 cliffster
Pull all of our troops out of any middle eastern country, declare that we do not recognize Israel’s sovereignty.. that would probably help.
My stance is, and will continue to be that there are at least some sane and sensible Islamic people in the Middle East who if we’re clever and careful we can work with against the crazy people who use the religion as a shield to cover their own psychotic tendencies.
Thus we should be on the look out for what reasonable steps we can take to make ourselves seem like reasonable and good people to the middle and if they don’t like to hear using the phrase “Radical Islam” then it seems like a small price that I would be willing to pay.
That said since my ideas aren’t winning me any love on this thread I’m gonna duck out, got to go take a bath and get ready to go to a Magic The Gathering event lots of sealed deck and booster drafting to do, wish me luck!
| 672 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:31:23am |
0re: #666 iossarian
I disagree. I’m thinking of a reporter asking something like: “Do you think that there’s a kind of radical Christianity that’s driving the increase in this kind of incident?”
I think he’d do the same kind of waffling: “all extremism is bad, blah blah”. What do you think his response would be?
What kind of incident?
| 673 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, May 21, 2010 7:31:46am |
re: #636 darthstar
Oh, I know that…I just prefer he leave me his gifts by the front door, where I can easily scoop them up and throw them in the trash.
You have insulted the kitteh overlord.
| 674 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:32:12am |
re: #673 Alouette
You have insulted the kitteh overlord.
Dogs have owners, cats have staff, and with that I’m out.
| 675 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 7:33:59am |
re: #656 darthstar
Good luck, and please excuse my sarcasm. I just don’t think that the ‘socialism’ being supported by Democrats is nearly as bad as the ‘socialism’ most people think of when they hear that word.
Perhaps because when “socialism” is being used as a pejorative, it is used with an utter disregard to its actual definition.
so·cial·ism [soh-shuh-liz-uhm]
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
| 676 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:34:06am |
re: #662 jamesfirecat
So everyone in the middle east hates us and there is NOTHING we can do to make them like us?
We could let them have Israel. That might buy us a week.
| 677 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:34:33am |
re: #673 Alouette
You have insulted the kitteh overlord.
I just wish he’d go out and bag one of those deer in the back yard. Now THAT would be a gift I could appreciate. Besides…they’re similar in color to the rats, so it shouldn’t be much of a stretch for him.
| 678 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:35:03am |
re: #668 garhighway
cool. lots of common ground there. i don’t want to muck it up by nitpicking.
so just one quick clarification - can we agree that while plenty of private employees might be ‘overpaid’ by whatever standard you and i would create, at least their pay is not directly funded by our taxes? i think that’s an important distinction. if you think that Campbell overpays their executives, you can always buy Progresso soup, or whatever…
minor point-
| 679 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:35:11am |
| 680 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:35:45am |
| 681 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 7:35:47am |
re: #672 NJDhockeyfan
What kind of incident?
Oh, I was assuming that this would be a question in the aftermath of some kind of more or less violent incident carried out by people with anti-government motives.
Note that I personally do NOT think that these incidents are driven by “radical Christianity”. I was more trying to imagine a situation where a reporter might ask that kind of question, and what the response would be.
| 682 |
abolitionist Fri, May 21, 2010 7:37:05am |
re: #667 Aceofwhat?
[snip] We could extricate ourselves from Mecca. [snip]
I suspect you meant the Saudi Arabian peninsula. If not, please elaborate.
| 683 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:37:21am |
re: #662 jamesfirecat
So everyone in the middle east hates us and there is NOTHING we can do to make them like us?
They’ve already told us many times what we need to do…convert or die. Simple as that.
| 684 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:38:27am |
re: #683 NJDhockeyfan
They’ve already told us many times what we need to do…convert or die. Simple as that.
That’s what the baptists told me in high school. Convert or burn in hell forever. Simple as that.
| 685 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 7:38:44am |
re: #651 jamesfirecat
Umm… do you guys still not get why we wanted to take the phrase “radical Islam” off the table?
To my knowledge it didn’t play well with Achmed six cammel, and so whenever our government used it we were breeding further resentment in the middle east.
In other words, you know how we were calling them “freedom fries?” Its just like that not saying “radical Islam” may sound silly but its a show of solidarity for the troops.
Problem: When you take “radical Islam” off the table, you risk permitting the extremists to widen the wedge to include all of Islam…the Eurofascists and their enablers would like nothing better.
| 686 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:38:48am |
re: #670 darthstar
Hey Ace…I know you’re not a bigot…even in jest. These fuckers were white. Yes, it’s disturbing. Shouldn’t we spend a few more minutes feeling disturbed by self-described “Christian” racist killers, rather than simply reassuring ourselves that they’re not as bad as Muslims?
Oh, sure. I had no intention of equivocating…just trying to fill James’ empty point with substance.
Unlike too many in the Muslim world, i’ll shout from the rooftops that these fools pervert everything that Christ stood for and that i’ll stand shoulder-to-shoulder with atheists, other religions, and other races to see them destroyed.
It’s not that i don’t think they’re as bad. It’s that i don’t think they’ll find support and succor within the larger Christian community. But i’ll publicly say whatever i need to in order to set the example for what we wish more Muslims would do in the face of their radicals.
| 688 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 7:39:31am |
re: #678 Aceofwhat?
cool. lots of common ground there. i don’t want to muck it up by nitpicking.
so just one quick clarification - can we agree that while plenty of private employees might be ‘overpaid’ by whatever standard you and i would create, at least their pay is not directly funded by our taxes? i think that’s an important distinction. if you think that Campbell overpays their executives, you can always buy Progresso soup, or whatever…
minor point-
I agree the distinction is meaningful. I only mention private employees because, in my observation, the same forces that lead government employers (weak managers, fear of change, etc…) to overpay apply to private employers as well. But you are right, private employers are subject to market discipline that sometimes tempers that. In other cases (mortgage bankers, derivative traders, et al), not so much.
And I entirely agree that since they are dealing with our money, governmental agencies ought to be frugal and efficient.
| 689 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:40:28am |
re: #684 darthstar
That’s what the baptists told me in high school. Convert or burn in hell forever. Simple as that.
How many people had their heads lopped off by that church for not converting?
| 690 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 7:41:20am |
re: #685 Spare O’Lake
Problem: When you take “radical Islam” off the table, you risk permitting the extremists to widen the wedge to include all of Islam…the Eurofascists and their enablers would like nothing better.
I think I would be happy with “violent religious extremists”.
| 691 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:41:27am |
re: #675 garhighway
yeah, no…that’s pretty bad!
collectivism gives me the shudders…it can work beautifully on a small scale.
in a larger society…eww. organizational principles aren’t infinitely scalable.
| 692 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 7:42:12am |
re: #665 cliffster
Pull all of our troops out of any middle eastern country, declare that we do not recognize Israel’s sovereignty.. that would probably help.
Yes, and also please stop all this racist talk about independence from Middle Eastern oil!
| 693 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:42:29am |
re: #688 garhighway
nice. i agree. good talk. what should we argue about now;)
| 694 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:43:23am |
re: #682 abolitionist
I suspect you meant the Saudi Arabian peninsula. If not, please elaborate.
i did
| 695 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 7:43:27am |
re: #689 NJDhockeyfan
How many people had their heads lopped off by that church for not converting?
Many people, over the years, have been persecuted in more or less overt ways for not being Christians. It’s going on right now in less immediately violent ways, e.g., the recently-in-the-news “curing” of gay people.
| 696 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:43:29am |
Nicolas Cage reveals bizarre diet of animals that have ‘dignified’ sex
The 46-year-old, whose most recent role is a drug-addled policeman in Bad Lieutenant, said he doesn’t eat because he does not like the way they have sex.
A report in The Sun said Cage, who won an Oscar for Leaving Las Vegas, ate fish and fowl.
He told the newspaper: “I love all animals. I have a fascination with fish, birds, whales - sentient life - insects, reptiles.
“I actually choose the way I eat according to the way animals have sex. I think fish are very dignified with sex. So are birds.
“But pigs, not so much. So I don’t eat pig meat or things like that. I eat fish and fowl.”
Cage, who lives in New Orleans, where Bad Lieutenant is set, has a reputation for eccentric behaviour and once owned a pet octopus.
| 697 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:43:44am |
re: #693 Aceofwhat?
nice. i agree. good talk. what should we argue about now;)
Designated Hitter. Good or bad. Discuss.
| 698 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:43:56am |
re: #686 Aceofwhat?
But they do. Most of the Muslim world abhors extremists, terrorism, jihad, etc. It’s just a few charismatic radicals an their influence on what appears to be a growing number of young men.
Look at the street protests in Iran, for example. Those people don’t hate America. They hate their isolationist government. Most Iraqis, despite our invasion and seven year occupation, don’t actually hate us, nor do they love terrorism (especially since they seem to be the targets of much of it).
Listen to some of our “leaders” when asked about religious and teabagger extremists here in the US…”People are upset right now.” They’re not condemning people like Roeder…they’re making excuses for them.
| 699 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 7:45:25am |
re: #695 iossarian
Many people, over the years, have been persecuted in more or less overt ways for not being Christians. It’s going on right now in less immediately violent ways, e.g., the recently-in-the-news “curing” of gay people.
What does that have to do with convert or die?
| 701 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 7:45:51am |
re: #693 Aceofwhat?
nice. i agree. good talk. what should we argue about now;)
I got nothing for you right now.
| 702 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:46:00am |
re: #684 darthstar
That’s what the baptists told me in high school. Convert or burn in hell forever. Simple as that.
Yeah, but Baptists generally leave the burning up to the devil.
| 703 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:46:08am |
re: #670 darthstar
Hey Ace…I know you’re not a bigot…even in jest. These fuckers were white. Yes, it’s disturbing. Shouldn’t we spend a few more minutes feeling disturbed by self-described “Christian” racist killers, rather than simply reassuring ourselves that they’re not as bad as Muslims?
after scrolling back up, i want to make doubly sure that you realize i was quoting Jamesfirecat…i don’t use that term otherwise.
it was a way of highlighting the irony of his use of the term in a post in which he whined about insulting Islam…my eyes are still rolling from that one…
| 704 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:46:30am |
re: #698 darthstar
I am for arming the people of Iran to overthrow the gubment there.
| 705 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:46:36am |
re: #689 NJDhockeyfan
How many people had their heads lopped off by that church for not converting?
You think that Islam advocates beheading for non-conversion? You either really do live in a little bubble or you are just willfully ignorant and so prejudiced against things you don’t fully understand that you want to believe the 1 billion plus Muslims on the planet are all out there looking for Christians to behead.
| 706 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 7:46:41am |
re: #684 darthstar
That’s what the baptists told me in high school. Convert or burn in hell forever. Simple as that.
Slight difference there, buddy…the baptists aren’t threaterning to terminate your life on earth unless you convert. That’s a world of difference.
| 707 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:46:53am |
re: #691 Aceofwhat?
yeah, no…that’s pretty bad!
collectivism gives me the shudders…it can work beautifully on a small scale.
in a larger society…eww. organizational principles aren’t infinitely scalable.
It works wonderfully in libraries as Jon Stewart pointed out.
| 708 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 7:47:08am |
re: #697 Cannadian Club Akbar
Designated Hitter. Good or bad. Discuss.
Terrible. No discussion possible.
Unlimited substitutions in football also terrible (and basketball, though to a lesser extent).
TV timeouts? Terrible.
Shall I continue?
| 710 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:47:44am |
re: #697 Cannadian Club Akbar
Designated Hitter. Good or bad. Discuss.
baseball is not america’s pastime.
is it college football season yet OR WHAT???
| 711 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 7:47:54am |
Btw, this is the Florida buffalo assistant principal who has been arrested for sending nude pics of herself to a 14 year old boy:
(WARNING: Images may be disturbing to sensitive persons and sleepy coyotes)
Mugshot
My verdict: Firing squad guilty
| 712 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 7:48:15am |
re: #707 jamesfirecat
It works wonderfully in libraries as Jon Stewart pointed out.
Jon Stewart is now the official mouthpiece of liberal. Hey, I thought you were leaving ;)
| 713 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:48:27am |
re: #706 Spare O’Lake
Slight difference there, buddy…the baptists aren’t threaterning to terminate your life on earth unless you convert. That’s a world of difference.
Not to a 14 year old.
| 715 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 7:48:57am |
re: #706 Spare O’Lake
Slight difference there, buddy…the baptists aren’t threaterning to terminate your life on earth unless you convert. That’s a world of difference.
Death sentences for gays in Africa?
| 716 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 7:49:02am |
For no reason at all, here are some pictures of Neko Case.
| 717 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:49:19am |
re: #697 Cannadian Club Akbar
Designated Hitter. Good or bad. Discuss.
American League pitchers are pussies.
| 718 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:49:36am |
re: #703 Aceofwhat?
after scrolling back up, i want to make doubly sure that you realize i was quoting Jamesfirecat…i don’t use that term otherwise.
it was a way of highlighting the irony of his use of the term in a post in which he whined about insulting Islam…my eyes are still rolling from that one…
Sorry if I offended anyone with the “Achmed Six camel” I meant it as their version of “Joe Six Pack” is their a better way I could be expressing that particular point?
| 719 |
sffilk Fri, May 21, 2010 7:50:04am |
| 720 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:50:05am |
re: #715 iossarian
Death sentences for gays in Africa?
Shh…besides…those are dark people who are Christians, so they don’t count.
| 721 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 7:50:17am |
re: #697 Cannadian Club Akbar
Designated Hitter. Good or bad. Discuss.
Heh. I first read that as “Designated Hitler.”
| 723 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:51:03am |
| 724 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 7:51:10am |
re: #714 MandyManners
[Link: www.theaustralian.com.au…]
Exactly. All forms of violent religious extremism are bad.
We see more of the Islamic stuff at the moment because some socially conservative Islamic countries also happen to be geopolitically significant due to their oil reserves.
| 725 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:51:26am |
re: #721 Mad Al-Jaffee
Heh. I first read that as “Designated Hitler.”
I had to read it twice myself before I noticed the double-t and not tl…I guess that’s because, on the internet, Godwin’s law can be applied to everything…including baseball.
| 726 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 7:51:43am |
re: #718 jamesfirecat
Sorry if I offended anyone with the “Achmed Six camel” I meant it as their version of “Joe Six Pack” is their a better way I could be expressing that particular point?
Fawad Fourwives.
| 727 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:51:49am |
re: #712 cliffster
Jon Stewart is now the official mouthpiece of liberal. Hey, I thought you were leaving ;)
I will be in about ten minutes.
Since when has Jon Stewart not been the official mouthpiece of the man called Jon Stewart who happens to be a liberal and expresses his political views during his show?
Besides is there something wrong with thinking that libraries are an example of how well socialism (pool of resources) works in the small scale?
| 729 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:54:10am |
re: #698 darthstar
But they do. Most of the Muslim world abhors extremists, terrorism, jihad, etc. It’s just a few charismatic radicals an their influence on what appears to be a growing number of young men.
Look at the street protests in Iran, for example. Those people don’t hate America. They hate their isolationist government. Most Iraqis, despite our invasion and seven year occupation, don’t actually hate us, nor do they love terrorism (especially since they seem to be the targets of much of it).
Listen to some of our “leaders” when asked about religious and teabagger extremists here in the US…”People are upset right now.” They’re not condemning people like Roeder…they’re making excuses for them.
I disagree, but only on the margins. I’m happy to go far to meet you in the middle…there is no reason to make any excuse for the Roeders, no reason at all. I’d bet you a considerable sum that you’d have a terrible time finding a church on Sunday morning that had any kind words for a man of that ilk.
I doubt you’d want to make the same bet of a mosque…far too many terrorists are learning their religion from the Center of it all in Saudi Arabia.
| 730 |
sffilk Fri, May 21, 2010 7:54:10am |
re: #112 Firstinla
If you think Palmdale is the suck, drive about 35 miles to the north and experience the wonders of Mojave. Now that is a place that sucks.
But, but, Mojave is the home of the first civilian spaceport! It can’t suck!
| 731 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 7:54:34am |
re: #727 jamesfirecat
Libraries are cool, but when I take my little girl there, what does she say? “But I want to go to Barnes and Noble”
| 732 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 7:56:35am |
re: #731 cliffster
Libraries are cool, but when I take my little girl there, what does she say? “But I want to go to Barnes and Noble”
Wait till she’s a college graduate and discovers how much books can actually cost then she’ll find a new appreciation for slightly worse selection at much better prices.
Seriously, I almost felt rather “dirty” letting my dad buy me Terry Pratchett’s latest book in hard cover as a graduation present because I know it’ll be in the local library before too long and we’ll have wasted $30.00 give or take on something I’m only going to read three or four times…
| 733 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 7:58:06am |
re: #700 MandyManners
Two links.
[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com…]
[Link: www.cnsnews.com…]
The second is from NJDhockeyfan.
yeah, my immediate reaction is disgust. but i really try to be a wait-and-see sort of person. in this case, if i were Prez, i’d join these things too…and then i’d send someone like Bolton to go and be a complete ass about it!
So i’m going to hope for the best…and if my hopes are dashed, i’ll be blunt and ascerbic.
| 734 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 7:59:50am |
re: #729 Aceofwhat?
We’re closer than you think on that front. I know most Americans detest the Roeders in this country, but it’s the ones who get on camera who count…the O’Reillys, the Becks, the Palins, the Bachmanns…those are the people who minimize domestic terrorism because they’re afraid of offending their core supporters.
| 737 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 8:00:16am |
re: #732 jamesfirecat
I used to really have a thing for books - I wanted to buy it so I could have it on a shelf in my house. Even though I knew it was stupid, I couldn’t make myself check the books out of the library. That problem is fixed now.
| 738 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 8:01:10am |
re: #732 jamesfirecat
Wait till she’s a college graduate and discovers how much books can actually cost then she’ll find a new appreciation for slightly worse selection at much better prices.
Seriously, I almost felt rather “dirty” letting my dad buy me Terry Pratchett’s latest book in hard cover as a graduation present because I know it’ll be in the local library before too long and we’ll have wasted $30.00 give or take on something I’m only going to read three or four times…
Yeah, as much as I like to read I rarely buy books. And when I do it’s usually a discounted used copy from Amazon. I always reserve new releases from the library a couple of months before they come out. That reminds me, I need to place a hold on the next Daniel Silva novel soon.
| 739 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:01:16am |
re: #727 jamesfirecat
I will be in about ten minutes.
Since when has Jon Stewart not been the official mouthpiece of the man called Jon Stewart who happens to be a liberal and expresses his political views during his show?
Besides is there something wrong with thinking that libraries are an example of how well socialism (pool of resources) works in the small scale?
i just said it can work beautifully on a small scale. did you miss that part?
btw, nice going with the “we don’t want to offend Muslims” juxtaposed with the “Achmed six-camel”. beauty.
| 740 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:02:06am |
re: #735 MandyManners
Joining an organization that is dedicated to blaming Jews for the whole mess?
Can you imagine how much fun could be had if we sent the right person?
I don’t know that Obama will, but i’m willing to wait and see before i slam him.
| 741 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:02:33am |
re: #729 Aceofwhat?
I agree with this point. The thing I think it’s important to remember, though, is that this isn’t due to differences between Christianity and Islam as abstract theological systems as much as the fact that the countries that happen to be Islamic have fewer secular institutions, and those they have are less developed.
| 742 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:03:52am |
re: #737 cliffster
I used to really have a thing for books - I wanted to buy it so I could have it on a shelf in my house. Even though I knew it was stupid, I couldn’t make myself check the books out of the library. That problem is fixed now.
My brother is a librarian. He still won’t check out a book if he can buy it. Thinks he has to have his own library.
There are worse things to spend your money on.
| 744 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 8:04:15am |
re: #700 MandyManners
Two links.
[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com…]
[Link: www.cnsnews.com…]
The second is from NJDhockeyfan.
Kind of different headlines there.
US Joins Pro-Muslim ‘Alliance of Civilizations’
versus
CNSNews: U.S. Joins U.N. Initiative Whose Stated Goal Is to Bridge Islam-West Divide
Nice catch, Mandy.
| 746 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:05:25am |
re: #743 MandyManners
Where in the New Testament are we told to kill infidels?
The Gnostic Gospel of Abdullah.
Oh, wait…
| 747 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:06:10am |
re: #718 jamesfirecat
Sorry if I offended anyone with the “Achmed Six camel” I meant it as their version of “Joe Six Pack” is their a better way I could be expressing that particular point?
i know. i thought it was funny…just not helpful to your point about ‘sensitivity’.
| 748 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 21, 2010 8:06:12am |
re: #745 MandyManners
How is the sick kid? Better I trust?
| 749 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 8:07:07am |
| 750 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 21, 2010 8:07:46am |
re: #747 Aceofwhat?
i know. i thought it was funny…just not helpful to your point about ‘sensitivity’.
Looks like I better act like a true liberal and hire a team of experts to go out there and check to make sure I’m not offending anyone before I speak. Also I’ll need those experts to sweep brooms along in front of them withe very step they take to make sure they don’t end up killing any innocent ants or other poor helpless insects in the process of doing their poling.
| 751 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:08:57am |
re: #741 iossarian
I agree with this point. The thing I think it’s important to remember, though, is that this isn’t due to differences between Christianity and Islam as abstract theological systems as much as the fact that the countries that happen to be Islamic have fewer secular institutions, and those they have are less developed.
well, being a partisan, of course i believe that the New Testament makes for a far superior path to life here on terra firma as well as the life to come…surely you saw that coming;)
but theology aside, sure. that’s why Christians who think that there ought to be less wall between church and state are out of their friggin’ minds. Muslims perceived as “sinners” don’t fare any better in Islamic theocracies than non-Muslims…it’s a bad deal for everyone.
| 752 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:09:10am |
re: #743 MandyManners
Where in the New Testament are we told to kill infidels?
“I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence” (Luke 19:26-27).
Rationalize away!
| 753 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 8:10:15am |
re: #724 iossarian
Exactly. All forms of violent religious extremism are bad.
We see more of the Islamic stuff at the moment because some socially conservative Islamic countries also happen to be geopolitically significant due to their oil reserves.
So it has nothing to do with 9-11 or the fact that Radical Islam has declared war on America and the West?
| 754 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:10:24am |
re: #750 jamesfirecat
Looks like I better act like a true liberal and hire a team of experts to go out there and check to make sure I’m not offending anyone before I speak. Also I’ll need those experts to sweep brooms along in front of them withe very step they take to make sure they don’t end up killing any innocent ants or other poor helpless insects in the process of doing their poling.
see how tiresome it can be on the liberal side? come on…the dark side is beckoning you. join me…together we can rule. (except i’m not your father. i’m your daddy, but i’m not your father;)
| 755 |
darthstar Fri, May 21, 2010 8:10:52am |
By the way, to get back to Rand Paul for a minute…he was on Good Morning America this morning whining to George Stephalococcus about not having a ‘honeymoon period’ following his election. This guy’s about as unprepared for the national stage as McCain’s VP pick was.
| 756 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:12:20am |
re: #752 iossarian
“I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence” (Luke 19:26-27).
Rationalize away!
There you go, Mandy.
Iossarian: good thing that Catholics at least no longer take the literal meaning of each and every verse as a command, isn’t it?
| 757 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:13:15am |
re: #752 iossarian
“I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence” (Luke 19:26-27).
Rationalize away!
aw, really? you don’t know the story of that parable?
| 758 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 8:13:41am |
NEW DELHI: In what threatens to cast a shadow on the upcoming Indo-Pakistan talks scheduled for February 25, three Sikh youths were beheaded by the Taliban in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Area (FATA) region after they allegedly refused to convert to Islam. Their severed heads were dumped at a gurudwara in Peshawar.
———————————
Polish engineer’s refusal to convert costs him his life
—————————
Somalia Militants Kill Church Leader And Behead Christians; Crackdown On “Non-Islamic Culture”
————————-
Man converts to Islam, beheads 2-year old niece and kills 4 family members including his mother
————————————
Nigerian Taliban behead 3 Christian pastors for refusing to convert to Islam
———————————-
It goes on and on and on and on……..
| 759 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:14:04am |
re: #618 Dark_Falcon
Racism is not small in this country. Not at all.
We’re still better than most of the world at it. But it is not small. If nothing else, the scars of economic inequity which were set up by the early eras of slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation are still livid and angry.
Furthermore, blacks are still the first fired, as they have been since their inclusion in the labor force. They are no longer the last hired— progress!
| 760 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:14:16am |
re: #756 Cato the Elder
There you go, Mandy.
Iossarian: good thing that Catholics at least no longer take the literal meaning of each and every verse as a command, isn’t it?
Very much so. The same process is ongoing with Islam as well, although it’s pretty clear that it’s at a less advanced stage (or at least, that a higher percentage of Muslims are at a less advanced stage).
| 761 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 21, 2010 8:14:45am |
re: #755 darthstar
Honeymoon after a primary win? Uh, about that other guy that’s running against you… That’s now two things he claims that rarely or never happen after a PRIMARY win. A mandate and a honeymoon. Premature much?
Wait, that wasn’t man-date was it?!
//
| 762 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:14:52am |
re: #757 Aceofwhat?
aw, really? you don’t know the story of that parable?
Ah! The story! You mean, why Christians don’t take the Bible literally?
| 763 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:15:27am |
re: #755 darthstar
By the way, to get back to Rand Paul for a minute…he was on Good Morning America this morning whining to George Stephalococcus about not having a ‘honeymoon period’ following his election. This guy’s about as unprepared for the national stage as McCain’s VP pick was.
OMG that’s hysterical.
First his daddy whines on his behalf - it’s all so unfair!
Then he moans on his own behalf - where’s my kisses?
The analogy sucks, by the way. The honeymoon generally comes after the marriage (election), not after the betrothal (primary).
Rand can get bent.
| 764 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, May 21, 2010 8:16:21am |
re: #763 Cato the Elder
OMG that’s hysterical.
First his daddy whines on his behalf - it’s all so unfair!
Then he moans on his own behalf - where’s my kisses?
The analogy sucks, by the way. The honeymoon generally comes after the marriage (election), not after the betrothal (primary).
Rand can get bent.
One thing I can’t stand is to see a grown man cry.
| 765 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:16:24am |
Ooh, and on the subject of any sort of -ism, let me represent the Harvard Implicit Association Test:
It is a fascinating and interesting study— and by participating, you help researchers.
| 766 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:16:31am |
re: #760 iossarian
Very much so. The same process is ongoing with Islam as well, although it’s pretty clear that it’s at a less advanced stage (or at least, that a higher percentage of Muslims are at a less advanced stage).
well said, there.
| 767 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 8:17:20am |
re: #764 NJDhockeyfan
One thing I can’t stand is to see a grown man cry.
Even if he’s in a gladiator movie?
| 768 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 8:17:51am |
re: #758 NJDhockeyfan
NEW DELHI: In what threatens to cast a shadow on the upcoming Indo-Pakistan talks scheduled for February 25, three Sikh youths were beheaded by the Taliban in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Area (FATA) region after they allegedly refused to convert to Islam. Their severed heads were dumped at a gurudwara in Peshawar.
—-
Polish engineer’s refusal to convert costs him his life
—-
Somalia Militants Kill Church Leader And Behead Christians; Crackdown On “Non-Islamic Culture”
—-
Man converts to Islam, beheads 2-year old niece and kills 4 family members including his mother
—-
Nigerian Taliban behead 3 Christian pastors for refusing to convert to Islam
—-
It goes on and on and on and on…
The dhimmi PC denial has become very strong in America.
| 769 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:18:04am |
re: #761 Rightwingconspirator
Honeymoon after a primary win? Uh, about that other guy that’s running against you… That’s now two things he claims that rarely or never happen after a PRIMARY win. A mandate and a honeymoon. Premature much?
Wait, that wasn’t man-date was it?!
//
He’s asking for premature infatuation.
| 770 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:18:55am |
re: #767 Mad Al-Jaffee
Even if he’s in a gladiator movie?
That crying scene made me flinch, but only because he was so snotty. Snot + corpses = blech.
My favorite man crying scene is Captain Nathan Brittles getting choked up when presented with a watch by the men of his command.
| 771 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:20:03am |
re: #757 Aceofwhat?
aw, really? you don’t know the story of that parable?
I must admit the “story” there is confusing, and that’s one of those verses I have big problems with.
Also the part about taking away what little a person has, if he has little, while giving more to him who has much. Seems to me a lot of predatory capitalism can be derived from that.
| 772 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:21:05am |
re: #762 iossarian
Ah! The story! You mean, why Christians don’t take the Bible literally?
well, you’d be amazed at how literally you can take it with the proper context.
the parable is an analogy of what will happen when the ‘nobleman’ meets the servants again…i.e. either upon our death or Jesus’ return.
you knew that, right? that’s the thing with parables…mind the context!
| 773 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:21:29am |
re: #770 Obdicut
That crying scene made me flinch, but only because he was so snotty. Snot + corpses = blech.
My favorite man crying scene is Captain Nathan Brittles getting choked up when presented with a watch by the men of his command.
How about Oskar Schindler when they give him the ring?
| 775 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 8:22:55am |
Today is “I Pity the Fool” Day, aka Mr. T’s birthday.
| 776 |
Summer Seale Fri, May 21, 2010 8:23:11am |
Totally OT:
The new Google Doodle is a totally full game of playable Pac-Man to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the game! =)
Go check it out. Front page of Google. =)
| 777 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:24:34am |
re: #755 darthstar
By the way, to get back to Rand Paul for a minute…he was on Good Morning America this morning whining to George Stephalococcus about not having a ‘honeymoon period’ following his election. This guy’s about as unprepared for the national stage as McCain’s VP pick was.
i wonder…if i were a (R) congressman, and Rand looks like he’s going to lose the main race, if i’d get points for kicking him while he was down. i think that might be the smart republican play…
| 778 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 8:24:37am |
re: #760 iossarian
Very much so. The same process is ongoing with Islam as well, although it’s pretty clear that it’s at a less advanced stage (or at least, that a higher percentage of Muslims are at a less advanced stage).
If by “at a less advanced stage” you mean “hopelessly stuck in the Dark Ages in accordance with Islamic religious teachings” then I agree with you. You should consider reading Irshad Manji’s “The Trouble With Islam” and/or Tarek Fatah’s “Chasing a Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State”.
| 779 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 8:24:39am |
re: #776 Summer
Totally OT:
The new Google Doodle is a totally full game of playable Pac-Man to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the game! =)
Go check it out. Front page of Google. =)
I remember the Atari 2600 version of Pac Man. Very crappy version.
| 780 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:25:05am |
re: #772 Aceofwhat?
well, you’d be amazed at how literally you can take it with the proper context.
the parable is an analogy of what will happen when the ‘nobleman’ meets the servants again…i.e. either upon our death or Jesus’ return.
you knew that, right? that’s the thing with parables…mind the context!
So it’s the context that tells you whether to take it literally. I see.
I mean, come on. Let’s just admit that Christians everywhere pick and choose which bits of the Bible they give particular credence to, and how they interpret them. And (surprise, surprise) the Bible always seems to fit their notion of what is the “right” thing to do.
Note that this is also true of all other religions, all political systems, and indeed any attempt that people make to provide general, abstract rules governing behavior. It’s just a fundamental human trait.
| 781 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:25:15am |
re: #773 Cato the Elder
How about Oskar Schindler when they give him the ring?
It’s a good scene, but I’m more moved by the Jews not crying, and hugging him, than by his grief.
| 782 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:26:14am |
| 783 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 8:26:29am |
re: #773 Cato the Elder
How about Oskar Schindler when they give him the ring?
I’ve heard that Speilberg (or whoever wrote the screenplay) made up that scene. In real life Schindler skipped town in the middle of the night.
| 784 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:27:52am |
re: #778 Spare O’Lake
If by “at a less advanced stage” you mean “hopelessly stuck in the Dark Ages in accordance with Islamic religious teachings” then I agree with you. You should consider reading Irshad Manji’s “The Trouble With Islam” and/or Tarek Fatah’s “Chasing a Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State”.
Right, but this doesn’t change the fact that there are plenty of Muslims out there who are perfectly normal and reasonable people (by our standards, of course). Hence, consider replacing “radical Islam” with “violent religious extremism”.
| 785 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:28:17am |
re: #783 Mad Al-Jaffee
I’ve heard that Speilberg (or whoever wrote the screenplay) made up that scene. In real life Schindler skipped town in the middle of the night.
Huh.
That’s disappointing. No ring with the inscription “he who saves one life saves the world entire”?
I hate Spielberg.
| 786 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:29:03am |
re: #771 Cato the Elder
I must admit the “story” there is confusing, and that’s one of those verses I have big problems with.
Also the part about taking away what little a person has, if he has little, while giving more to him who has much. Seems to me a lot of predatory capitalism can be derived from that.
We all have gifts, unique to us. We are supposed to use them and grow them; we should encounter God with more gifts and with evidence of having used our gifts out in the world. Squandering the gifts that we are given is proof that we don’t deserve to be trusted with much once we encounter God again at our passing.
It has nothing to do with actual gold, although some DO have the gift of making a good buck…and they’d better use it for the betterment of all.
| 788 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:30:25am |
re: #784 iossarian
Right, but this doesn’t change the fact that there are plenty of Muslims out there who are perfectly normal and reasonable people (by our standards, of course). Hence, consider replacing “radical Islam” with “violent religious extremism”.
Is it OK if we mention the specific brand of “violent religious extremism” when we get down to cases?
Because, you know, “radical Islam” sorta leads the world in that category. Like Canadians and curling.
| 789 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:30:38am |
re: #780 iossarian
So it’s the context that tells you whether to take it literally. I see.
I mean, come on. Let’s just admit that Christians everywhere pick and choose which bits of the Bible they give particular credence to, and how they interpret them. And (surprise, surprise) the Bible always seems to fit their notion of what is the “right” thing to do.
Note that this is also true of all other religions, all political systems, and indeed any attempt that people make to provide general, abstract rules governing behavior. It’s just a fundamental human trait.
no, it’s specifically a parable. Literally, in Luke 19:11, it says that he spoke a parable.
Come on. I don’t mind harsh criticism amidst debate. But first get hooked on phonics. Read the whole chapter.
| 790 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 8:30:41am |
re: #784 iossarian
Right, but this doesn’t change the fact that there are plenty of Muslims out there who are perfectly normal and reasonable people (by our standards, of course). Hence, consider replacing “radical Islam” with “violent religious extremism”.
Are you suggesting that the term “radical Islam” refers to all those “Muslims out there who are perfectly normal and reasonable”?
| 791 |
avanti Fri, May 21, 2010 8:32:03am |
“Rand Paul: Obama’s criticism of BP ‘un-American”
and comments on the mining accident too:
“”We had a mining accident that was very tragic. … Then we come in and it’s always someone’s fault. Maybe sometimes accidents happen,” he said.”
| 792 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:32:08am |
re: #784 iossarian
Right, but this doesn’t change the fact that there are plenty of Muslims out there who are perfectly normal and reasonable people (by our standards, of course). Hence, consider replacing “radical Islam” with “violent religious extremism”.
sure, as soon as it’s a tie.
you’re measuring the wrong thing. the question isn’t, what percentage of religion X are normal?
the question is: what percentage of baddies are religion X?
huuuge difference. caution: logic at work.
| 793 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 8:33:02am |
re: #784 iossarian
Right, but this doesn’t change the fact that there are plenty of Muslims out there who are perfectly normal and reasonable people (by our standards, of course). Hence, consider replacing “radical Islam” with “violent religious extremism”.
Radical Islam is a readily identifiable form of violent religious extremism. Why would you want to deny its distinct nature and the distinct threat posed by it?
| 794 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 8:33:10am |
re: #776 Summer
Totally OT:
The new Google Doodle is a totally full game of playable Pac-Man to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the game! =)
Go check it out. Front page of Google. =)
I am kicking its ass right now. I’m 7 years old all over again
| 795 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 8:34:14am |
re: #794 cliffster
Have you seen the movie King of Kong? One of the video game champs in that once played a perfect game of Ms. Pac Man.
| 796 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 8:34:44am |
re: #784 iossarian
Right, but this doesn’t change the fact that there are plenty of Muslims out there who are perfectly normal and reasonable people (by our standards, of course). Hence, consider replacing “radical Islam” with “violent religious extremism”.
I’ve not seen that denied.
I’m with Cato on this one:
re: #788 Cato the Elder
Is it OK if we mention the specific brand of “violent religious extremism” when we get down to cases?
Because, you know, “radical Islam” sorta leads the world in that category. Like Canadians and curling.
| 797 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 8:35:21am |
re: #793 Spare O’Lake
Radical Islam is a readily identifiable form of violent religious extremism. Why would you want to deny its distinct nature and the distinct threat posed by it?
because it’s un-PC?
| 798 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 8:36:41am |
re: #794 cliffster
I sucked at all the those video arcade games back in the day. I was damn near “Tommy” on a pinball machine though. :D
| 799 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 8:37:04am |
re: #795 Mad Al-Jaffee
Have you seen the movie King of Kong? One of the video game champs in that once played a perfect game of Ms. Pac Man.
Nope, didn’t catch it. I will say that I was a little more of a Ms Pac Man guy - I liked the changing board and moving fruit.
| 800 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 8:37:49am |
re: #799 cliffster
Nope, didn’t catch it. I will say that I was a little more of a Ms Pac Man guy - I liked the changing board and moving fruit.
Really good movie. Check it out some time.
| 801 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 8:38:04am |
re: #798 Boogberg
I sucked at all the those video arcade games back in the day. I was damn near “Tommy” on a pinball machine though. :D
supple wrists, eh?
| 802 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:39:05am |
re: #790 Walter L. Newton
Are you suggesting that the term “radical Islam” refers to all those “Muslims out there who are perfectly normal and reasonable”?
No, I’m suggesting it’s a needlessly antagonistic phrase to use when “violent religious extremism” will do just as well.
The reason it’s antagonistic is because there is nothing about being a radical Muslim that necessarily entails being violent (even though, yes, there are probably* more violent radical Muslims than there are violent radical Christians).
*I say probably because I am in no way an expert in counting violent radical religious people.
| 803 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:39:42am |
re: #797 reine.de.tout
because it’s un-PC?
That’s rather unfair, given that Iossarian has made a perfectly good argument that’s not dependent at all on PC.
I, personally, don’t really care if we call radical Islam radical Islam or not. I’d kind of prefer that we call Wahhabists Wahhabists, and Shi’ite fanatics Shi’ites, etc. That way you’re being more accurate— which is the putative reason for saying “Radical Islam”— without associating ‘radical’ with ‘Islam’ over and over.
| 805 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:41:39am |
re: #797 reine.de.tout
because it’s un-PC?
Please, bring on the “people won’t let me say it because it’s not PC” argument, though you may want to check out the company you’ll be keeping there.
| 806 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:42:52am |
re: #803 Obdicut
That’s rather unfair, given that Iossarian has made a perfectly good argument that’s not dependent at all on PC.
I, personally, don’t really care if we call radical Islam radical Islam or not. I’d kind of prefer that we call Wahhabists Wahhabists, and Shi’ite fanatics Shi’ites, etc. That way you’re being more accurate— which is the putative reason for saying “Radical Islam”— without associating ‘radical’ with ‘Islam’ over and over.
Eh, it’s not a good argument.
But i like your second paragraph. Nothing wrong with being more specific.
| 807 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:43:13am |
re: #802 iossarian
There are a lot more violent radical Muslims than there are violent radical Christians.
That does not correlate to much of anything else, though. It doesn’t, for example, allow the conclusion that therefore Islam inspires more violence than Christianity. It implies that many modern forms of Islam inspire and condone violence. A large reason for this is the high amount of theocracy in the Middle East. To me, the amount of Islamic violence is tied to amount of theocratic control present, not the individual religion.
I’m really hoping the next wave of religious extremism is Buddhist, just to watch the confusion among partisans on all sides.
| 808 |
Tigger2005 Fri, May 21, 2010 8:43:58am |
re: #752 iossarian
“I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence” (Luke 19:26-27).
Rationalize away!
Not to rationalize, as I’m not a Christian apologist; however, it’s a fact that this statement is made within a parable, and that we have no examples of Jesus actually ordering his disciples to kill anyone in his presence or in his name, or of such a thing happening, at least in the Gospels. I think a case could be made that it’s easier for Christians not to take passages like this as a literal command to slay infidels, whereas it’s much more difficult for Muslims to rationalize away the commands in the Koran, coupled with the example of Muhammad, who ordered massacres and assassinations and committed killings himself.
| 809 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 8:44:28am |
re: #797 reine.de.tout
because it’s un-PC?
For sure.
It’s funny how we don’t seem to hear folks objecting to the specific finger-pointing at certain violent Christian groups.
| 810 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:44:46am |
re: #802 iossarian
The reason it’s antagonistic is because there is nothing about being a radical Muslim that necessarily entails being violent (even though, yes, there are probably* more violent radical Muslims than there are violent radical Christians).
why not take their word for it? dude bombs an abortion clinic in the name of Christianity = violent Christian fanatic. dude bombs X in the name of Allah = violent radical Muslim.
no assumptions necessary. extremists are only too happy to shout their motivations from the rooftops…
| 811 |
Renaissance_Man Fri, May 21, 2010 8:45:30am |
re: #802 iossarian
The reason it’s antagonistic is because there is nothing about being a radical Muslim that necessarily entails being violent (even though, yes, there are probably* more violent radical Muslims than there are violent radical Christians).
‘Probably’? Come on, man. There’s no need to equivocate over everything. Some things are obvious even in the absence of painstaking, double-blind studies. Equivocation is unnecessary. It’s sort of like saying ‘FOX probably has somewhat more editorial slant than other news outlets’.
I don’t support the seemingly bizarre belief of some critics that if you don’t use all the right codewords, you’re somehow weak/soft/treacherous/unserious/whatever. That seems very Pavlovian (or Luntzian, I suppose) to me - like people have been excessively trained to salivate at certain words, so that they now need them as commands to respond to. I do, however, support calling spades spades.
| 812 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:45:36am |
re: #808 Tigger2005
However, given the actual history of Christians, it’s easy to conclude that Christians have found no trouble whatsoever in justifying killing in his name. Or ruling in his name, which I think Jesus would have taken an exceedingly dim view of.
| 813 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 8:46:01am |
| 814 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:47:32am |
re: #806 Aceofwhat?
You should take the Harvard Implicit Association test, because it supports Iossarian’s argument about associating ‘radical’ with ‘Islam’ over and over.
| 815 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 8:47:33am |
re: #802 iossarian
No, I’m suggesting it’s a needlessly antagonistic phrase to use when “violent religious extremism” will do just as well.
The reason it’s antagonistic is because there is nothing about being a radical Muslim that necessarily entails being violent (even though, yes, there are probably* more violent radical Muslims than there are violent radical Christians).
*I say probably because I am in no way an expert in counting violent radical religious people.
Really… if that’s what the term imports, both by action and common usage… then radical Islam means a violent aspect of Islam.
Just because YOU want to give the term a whole new meaning doesn’t change diddly-squat… does it. Your inner peace is much too loud.
| 816 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:48:49am |
re: #812 Obdicut
However, given the actual history of Christians, it’s easy to conclude that Christians have found no trouble whatsoever in justifying killing in his name. Or ruling in his name, which I think Jesus would have taken an exceedingly dim view of.
sad but true. perhaps a broader statement is that people have found little trouble in justifying killing period. But christians are not immune to this evil.
| 817 |
webevintage Fri, May 21, 2010 8:48:55am |
re: #791 avanti
“Rand Paul: Obama’s criticism of BP ‘un-American”
and comments on the mining accident too:“”We had a mining accident that was very tragic. … Then we come in and it’s always someone’s fault. Maybe sometimes accidents happen,” he said.”
Jesus, what a fucking asshole.
“On Good Morning America today, Paul also steered the conversation toward something more recent, President Obama’s criticism of BP following the oil spill. Paul said: “This sort of, you know ‘I’ll put my boot heel on the throat of BP,’ I think that sounds really un-American in his criticism of business.”
So going after a BRITISH company that probably caused the worst ecological disaster ever is un-American? I guess it is OK to just let folks like Massey to keep doing this that CAUSE accidents that kill people is fine because, heh, they are a private business and who do those the gov’t think they are and why should an employer be expect to run their business as safely as they can.
Like a said.
Asshole.
| 818 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 8:49:00am |
re: #810 Aceofwhat?
why not take their word for it? dude bombs an abortion clinic in the name of Christianity = violent Christian fanatic. dude bombs X in the name of Allah = violent radical Muslim.
no assumptions necessary. extremists are only too happy to shout their motivations from the rooftops…
Right. I would be happy with “violent Muslim fanatics”, or “violent Islamism”, or variants thereon. But “radical Islam” does not in itself imply violence. Words matter.
| 819 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 8:49:04am |
According to the stories, Mohammad was a warlord. Jesus was not.
| 820 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:49:17am |
re: #814 Obdicut
You should take the Harvard Implicit Association test, because it supports Iossarian’s argument about associating ‘radical’ with ‘Islam’ over and over.
cool. i will.
| 822 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:51:18am |
re: #817 webevintage
Maybe he should stop for a fucking second and think about the impact that the spill has on thousands and thousands of American businesses, the prick.
What an asshole. That’s almost more annoying than his stupid-ass comments on the CRA. This one makes abso-fucking-loutely no sense, and is, in fact, back-assward.
What an ultra-dweeb.
| 823 |
Renaissance_Man Fri, May 21, 2010 8:51:44am |
re: #791 avanti
“Rand Paul: Obama’s criticism of BP ‘un-American”
and comments on the mining accident too:“”We had a mining accident that was very tragic. … Then we come in and it’s always someone’s fault. Maybe sometimes accidents happen,” he said.”
One wonders if he would be similarly cautious if, say, government could be easily blamed for an accident.
| 824 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:51:50am |
re: #818 iossarian
Right. I would be happy with “violent Muslim fanatics”, or “violent Islamism”, or variants thereon. But “radical Islam” does not in itself imply violence. Words matter.
heh. insofar as there could be Islamists who are “radical” because their skateboarding skillz are gnarly? sure, i guess.
i think that words matter, too, but i don’t know if i’ve ever encountered this particular semantic line before. i’m thinking about it…
| 825 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 8:51:51am |
Breaking news:
Relative ID West Memphis perps:
“The Arkansas State Police is not confident of the identification that we have at this moment in time, as of 8:40 on Friday morning ,” said spokesman Bill Sadler. “We are waiting for results from the state crime laboratory. We don’t play CSI around here. We want it right.”People claiming to be relatives of the two, however, told The Commercial Appeal they could identify them from numerous videos and photographs taken at the crime scene and available on Memphis media websites. They identified the men as Jerry Kane, 45, of Ohio and his 16-year-old son, Joseph.
Kane’s own website this morning bears a note indicating the two were “shot down” by law enforcement in West Memphis.
The Commercial Appeal could not independently confirm the suspects’ identification.
Attempts to verify the information led to a woman named Donna Lee in central Florida who said she was married to Jerry Kane and that Joe, as she called him, was her 16-year-old stepson. She wanted to emphasize Joseph Kane is a minor. She said the white minivan belonged to Jerry and was positive from photos and videos from the scene that the two unidentified dead suspects were Jerry and Joe Kane — and that the dog she saw exiting the minivan was a labrador-rottweiler mix named Olie.
| 826 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 21, 2010 8:51:58am |
BREAKING: At a certain time today, in specific geographic region, the possible futures of 25 people were permanently interrupted, while an additional 13 people were inconvenienced to a great, physical degree when a violent religious extremist of determined national origin began to expand with extreme rapidity due to a hidden device of suspect construction.
/
| 827 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 8:52:09am |
re: #803 Obdicut
I, personally, don’t really care if we call radical Islam radical Islam or not. I’d kind of prefer that we call Wahhabists Wahhabists, and Shi’ite fanatics Shi’ites, etc. That way you’re being more accurate— which is the putative reason for saying “Radical Islam”— without associating ‘radical’ with ‘Islam’ over and over.
No problem with being as specific as possible. The problem is being overly general to the point where false equivalencies are created.
Your objection to the association of “radical” with “Islam” by saying “radical Islam” is perverse and ironic since the term “Radical Islam” is specifically used in order to AVOID tarring all Muslims with the same brush.
| 828 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 8:52:23am |
| 829 |
Tigger2005 Fri, May 21, 2010 8:53:19am |
re: #812 Obdicut
However, given the actual history of Christians, it’s easy to conclude that Christians have found no trouble whatsoever in justifying killing in his name. Or ruling in his name, which I think Jesus would have taken an exceedingly dim view of.
True… it’s a double-edged sword, no doubt. The passages to justify it are there. It’s also easier to rationalize those passages away then it is to rationalize away such passages in the Koran.
Christianity emerged within the Roman Empire, which probably goes a long way toward explaining why it’s more “nuanced.” Christians couldn’t exactly go around doing whatever they wanted or killing whoever they liked or the State would squash them like bugs. Islam was not subject to the same constraints.
| 830 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 8:53:28am |
Whenever I’m having trouble sleeping, I read people talking going off on “Christians are violent too! Look at Roeder!!” zzzZZZzzz
| 831 |
Renaissance_Man Fri, May 21, 2010 8:53:56am |
re: #825 Shiplord Kirel
Breaking news:
Relative ID West Memphis perps:
A shame that the Red Fact already exists that they were illegal immigrants.
| 832 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:54:25am |
re: #786 Aceofwhat?
We all have gifts, unique to us. We are supposed to use them and grow them; we should encounter God with more gifts and with evidence of having used our gifts out in the world. Squandering the gifts that we are given is proof that we don’t deserve to be trusted with much once we encounter God again at our passing.
It has nothing to do with actual gold, although some DO have the gift of making a good buck…and they’d better use it for the betterment of all.
“He who does not have gifts to squander is very poorly endowed indeed.” —Gospel of Cato, 9:24:18
| 833 |
webevintage Fri, May 21, 2010 8:55:01am |
re: #822 Obdicut
Maybe he should stop for a fucking second and think about the impact that the spill has on thousands and thousands of American businesses, the prick.
What an asshole. That’s almost more annoying than his stupid-ass comments on the CRA. This one makes abso-fucking-loutely no sense, and is, in fact, back-assward.
What an ultra-dweeb.
I commented to my hubby last night about my disappointment in the current administrations reluctance to do something about the last one’s easing of regulations until a disaster happens because, well that’s what happens when you don’t make businesses follow the rules.
I also was confused just WHY BP is being allowed to still be the boss, for lack of a better word, in response to this disaster. Maybe I want Obama and the Coast Guard to do something that really cannot be done?
| 834 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 8:55:32am |
re: #826 Slumbering Behemoth
BREAKING: At a certain time today, in specific geographic region, the possible futures of 25 people were permanently interrupted, while an additional 13 people were inconvenienced to a great, physical degree when a violent religious extremist of determined national origin began to expand with extreme rapidity due to a hidden device of suspect construction.
/
…began to expand with extreme rapidity.
You win the internet this morning
| 835 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 8:56:07am |
re: #832 Cato the Elder
“He who does not have gifts to squander is very poorly endowed indeed.” —Gospel of Cato, 9:24:18
heh…where’s the Council of Nicea when we need them?
| 836 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 8:56:26am |
| 837 |
Vambo Fri, May 21, 2010 8:57:03am |
ahahahahahaha Luap Dnar says criticism of BP is “un-American”!!
I assume that’s been posted here already? If not, you’ll hear about it.
I’d post a link but I’m too busy LOL-ing.
| 838 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:58:03am |
re: #824 Aceofwhat?
The basic logic is twofold, for me:
Calling it ‘radical Islam’ over and over, rather than, even ‘Radical islamists’, but even better ‘violent Islamicists’ or ‘violent Muslim extremists’, associates “radical’ with ‘Islam’. This can have the twofold effect of making non-Muslims associate Islam with being radical, leading to the distrust of all Muslims, no matter how moderate they are— a conviction that somewhere they must actually be radical— but also, for Muslims, makes them feel that they are included in that.
For example, Spare O’Lake has repeatedly castigated a Muslim website for ‘shilling Sharia’, ‘peddling Sharia’, etc, even though Sharia is just the name for ‘living like a good Muslim’ and is not a monolithic whole, but instead varies according to sect, mosque, Imam, and individual believer. It is like saying that a Jewish synagogue is ‘shilling Halakha’. The word ‘Sharia’ has been used so often to mean the most radical forms of Sharia that people don’t bother to say ‘radical Sharia’ or ‘extremist sharia’, but denounce sharia as a concept. This means that even a completely moderate Muslim is having what is a part of his faith denounced over and over, and his form of sharia conflated with the most violent and oppressive forms.
| 839 |
Ericus58 Fri, May 21, 2010 8:58:11am |
re: #826 Slumbering Behemoth
BREAKING: At a certain time today, in specific geographic region, the possible futures of 25 people were permanently interrupted, while an additional 13 people were inconvenienced to a great, physical degree when a violent religious extremist of determined national origin began to expand with extreme rapidity due to a hidden device of suspect construction.
/
In a previous line of work of mine, we would refer to this as “Rapid Dis-Assembly”.
| 840 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 8:59:13am |
re: #829 Tigger2005
That’s a very good point. Christianity co-opted (or was co-opted by) a government during a long struggle, rather than being a force that overthrew the government. I can’t draw a direct line between that and things these days, but it’s a great point and definitely has bearing.
| 841 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 21, 2010 9:00:12am |
re: #834 cliffster
Yay! What do I win?
Though I must confess the phrase is not original to me. I heard it in reference to an explosion of a rocket on a launch pad.
| 842 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 9:00:36am |
re: #807 Obdicut
There are a lot more violent radical Muslims than there are violent radical Christians.
That does not correlate to much of anything else, though. It doesn’t, for example, allow the conclusion that therefore Islam inspires more violence than Christianity. It implies that many modern forms of Islam inspire and condone violence. A large reason for this is the high amount of theocracy in the Middle East. To me, the amount of Islamic violence is tied to amount of theocratic control present, not the individual religion.
I’m really hoping the next wave of religious extremism is Buddhist, just to watch the confusion among partisans on all sides.
And there’s the rub. Islamic scripture and teaching, by virtue of the content of the religious texts and the express prohibition against interpretation, is more violent than other religions.
| 843 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:00:37am |
re: #830 cliffster
Whenever I’m having trouble sleeping, I read people talking going off on “Christians are violent too! Look at Roeder!!” zzzZZZzzz
that’s not the part that annoys me. what’s annoying is when i try to denounce, as we wish more Muslims would do, and get the “no true Scotsman hurr hurr hurr” bit thrown back.
it doesn’t happen here a lot, but it does happen on occasion. stupid.
| 844 |
webevintage Fri, May 21, 2010 9:01:03am |
re: #837 Vambo
ahahahahahaha Luap Dnar says criticism of BP is “un-American”!!
I assume that’s been posted here already? If not, you’ll hear about it.
I’d post a link but I’m too busy LOL-ing.
Yeah, “accidents happen…what are gonna do?” shrugs shoulders.
Ummmm, maybe Luap if the safety rules had been followed and fines paid accidents like there would not actually happen.
I wonder what the good Dr. says if he fucks up a cataract surgery…accidents happen.
| 845 |
Interesting Times Fri, May 21, 2010 9:01:20am |
re: #837 Vambo
ahahahahahaha Luap Dnar says criticism of BP is “un-American”!!
| 846 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:01:48am |
re: #838 Obdicut
all well and good. really, my only quibble is with those who don’t think the religion ought to be identified. you and I are past that, and there’s nothing in your post with which i disagree at first glance.
| 847 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:01:51am |
re: #826 Slumbering Behemoth
BREAKING: At a certain time today, in specific geographic region, the possible futures of 25 people were permanently interrupted, while an additional 13 people were inconvenienced to a great, physical degree when a violent religious extremist of determined national origin began to expand with extreme rapidity due to a hidden device of suspect construction.
/
The radical capitalist corporation BP said today that it bears only limited responsibility for the oil currently spilling into the gulf. The capitalist BP chairman is on the record saying “it’s America, of course there will be frivolous lawsuits”.
/
At least ask yourself the question: why is it important to remind people that these specific terrorists are/were Muslims? Why isn’t it enough to just say that they’re terrorists?
| 848 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:02:12am |
re: #833 webevintage
The government really doesn’t have as much power or resources as the anti-big-government types make it out. I don’t think we have the resources to address the problem without a gigantic fit of spending.
I think they’re keeping BP as the ‘boss’ in order to make sure they pay significant portions of the cleanup, and because the US Government doesn’t have the capacity to address this right now.
There are probably more nuances than that, too. That’s just my relatively uninformed opinion. Reine could probably tell us more.
| 849 |
Renaissance_Man Fri, May 21, 2010 9:02:19am |
re: #838 Obdicut
Indeed. Witness the similar response when sane conservatives, here and elsewhere, react to descriptions of wingnut kooks. Even though they have almost nothing in common with them, on some very distant level, they still feel enough of a connection (even if it’s just enemy of my enemy) that they get their backs up.
| 850 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:02:57am |
re: #838 Obdicut
The basic logic is twofold, for me:
Calling it ‘radical Islam’ over and over, rather than, even ‘Radical islamists’, but even better ‘violent Islamicists’ or ‘violent Muslim extremists’, associates “radical’ with ‘Islam’. This can have the twofold effect of making non-Muslims associate Islam with being radical, leading to the distrust of all Muslims, no matter how moderate they are— a conviction that somewhere they must actually be radical— but also, for Muslims, makes them feel that they are included in that.
For example, Spare O’Lake has repeatedly castigated a Muslim website for ‘shilling Sharia’, ‘peddling Sharia’, etc, even though Sharia is just the name for ‘living like a good Muslim’ and is not a monolithic whole, but instead varies according to sect, mosque, Imam, and individual believer. It is like saying that a Jewish synagogue is ‘shilling Halakha’. The word ‘Sharia’ has been used so often to mean the most radical forms of Sharia that people don’t bother to say ‘radical Sharia’ or ‘extremist sharia’, but denounce sharia as a concept. This means that even a completely moderate Muslim is having what is a part of his faith denounced over and over, and his form of sharia conflated with the most violent and oppressive forms.
Actually there is nothing incorrect in simply calling it “Islam.” I’ve read the Quran a number of times and have read the associate commentaries, and the call to violence is peppered throughout.
“Moderate Islam” is the term we should be using for the many followers of Islam who prefer to ignore the commands to violence.
| 851 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:03:06am |
re: #842 Spare O’Lake
Christianity, specifically Catholicism, had a strict injunction against interpretation as well. It still has a pretty strong one, at least for laypeople.
So no, that point is not very valid.
| 852 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 9:03:57am |
The far right-wing connection is very strong
| 853 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:04:07am |
| 855 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 9:04:51am |
re: #836 Cato the Elder
Don’t like thieves and swindlers.
How the hell do you figure Goldman are thieves and swindlers?
| 856 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:05:07am |
re: #847 iossarian
The radical capitalist corporation BP said today that it bears only limited responsibility for the oil currently spilling into the gulf. The capitalist BP chairman is on the record saying “it’s America, of course there will be frivolous lawsuits”.
/
At least ask yourself the question: why is it important to remind people that these specific terrorists are/were Muslims? Why isn’t it enough to just say that they’re terrorists?
Er… because it’s not accurate.
| 857 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:05:22am |
re: #842 Spare O’Lake
And there’s the rub. Islamic scripture and teaching, by virtue of the content of the religious texts and the express prohibition against interpretation, is more violent than other religions.
Well, I think that the seemingly endless ability of humans to interpret and rationalize makes this a fairly small driver of violence, compared to things like social conservatism, poverty and lack of solid secular institutions (all of which are related).
But I can see how others might disagree.
| 858 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:05:37am |
re: #847 iossarian
At least ask yourself the question: why is it important to remind people that these specific terrorists are/were Muslims? Why isn’t it enough to just say that they’re terrorists?
You and lots of others have this magical thinking that says if we mention them by name, as what they are, radical Muslim terrorists, we’ll somehow conjure up more of them. It’s like a scared kid who says to himself “if I close my eyes so I can’t see the bogeyman, the bogeyman won’t see me”.
Piffle.
Does calling pedophile priests by that name conjure up more priestly pedophiles?
| 859 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:05:50am |
re: #842 Spare O’Lake
And there’s the rub. Islamic scripture and teaching, by virtue of the content of the religious texts and the express prohibition against interpretation, is more violent than other religions.
there’s nothing wrong with believing that privately…but we gain nothing by attempting to drive the point home publicly.
i’m not a big “they hatez us cuz we sayz mean thingz” guy, but let each religion wrestle with its bad seeds. let’s point out the bad apples, and hope that the tree gets better, even if we privately think that the tree itself might be sick.
| 861 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 21, 2010 9:06:15am |
re: #808 Tigger2005
Not to rationalize, as I’m not a Christian apologist; however, it’s a fact that this statement is made within a parable, and that we have no examples of Jesus actually ordering his disciples to kill anyone in his presence or in his name, or of such a thing happening, at least in the Gospels. I think a case could be made that it’s easier for Christians not to take passages like this as a literal command to slay infidels, whereas it’s much more difficult for Muslims to rationalize away the commands in the Koran, coupled with the example of Muhammad, who ordered massacres and assassinations and committed killings himself.
Amen.
| 862 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:06:26am |
re: #854 MandyManners
If they ignore the commands, aren’t they apostates?
Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ارتداد, irtidād or ridda) is commonly defined as the rejection in word or deed of their former religion (apostasy) by a person who was previously a follower of Islam.
| 863 |
webevintage Fri, May 21, 2010 9:06:29am |
re: #817 webevintage
So going after a BRITISH company that probably caused the worst ecological disaster (in America) ever is un-American? I guess it is OK to just let folks like Massey
tokeep doing thi(ng)s that CAUSE accidents that kill peopleis finebecause, heh, they are a private business and who doesthosethe gov’t think they are and why should an employer be expect(ed) to run their business as safely as they can.
WOW.
That is what happens when you post a rant before your first cuppa tea in the morning.
Fail…..
TFTFMyself
| 864 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 21, 2010 9:06:30am |
re: #847 iossarian
It’s a silly argument. Why is it important or necessary to exclude certain facts or details about a terrorist and his/her motivations?
| 865 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:06:52am |
re: #851 Obdicut
Christianity, specifically Catholicism, had a strict injunction against interpretation as well. It still has a pretty strong one, at least for laypeople.
So no, that point is not very valid.
That is utter bullshit.
| 867 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:07:09am |
re: #856 Walter L. Newton
Er… because it’s not accurate.
So, with reference to my point above, is it inaccurate to describe BP as a “corporation”, when we could more accurately describe them as a “capitalist corporation”?
Note that there are quite a few non-capitalist corporations around.
| 869 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 21, 2010 9:07:48am |
re: #854 MandyManners
If they ignore the commands, aren’t they apostates?
Unsurprisingly, one of the biggest causes of trouble in the islamic world is one group of muslims declaring another group of muslims unbelievers, leading to violence amongst themselves. See en.wikipedia.org
| 870 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:07:56am |
re: #851 Obdicut
Christianity, specifically Catholicism, had a strict injunction against interpretation as well. It still has a pretty strong one, at least for laypeople.
huh?
| 871 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:08:33am |
re: #858 Cato the Elder
You and lots of others have this magical thinking that says if we mention them by name, as what they are, radical Muslim terrorists, we’ll somehow conjure up more of them. It’s like a scared kid who says to himself “if I close my eyes so I can’t see the bogeyman, the bogeyman won’t see me”.
Piffle.
Does calling pedophile priests by that name conjure up more priestly pedophiles?
Never, ever, ever look in the mirror and say “radical muslim” five times.
| 872 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:08:42am |
re: #860 MandyManners
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
My favorite is the one about turning the other cheek.
| 873 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:09:00am |
re: #865 Cato the Elder
That is utter bullshit.
No, it’s rather obvious that in any religion other than a non-textual one, there has to be an actual doctrine of interpretation. This doctrine, in Catholicism, is an official one, rather than a communal one.
I’m unsure in what way you think it’s bullshit; can you explain?
| 874 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:09:20am |
re: #803 Obdicut
That’s rather unfair, given that Iossarian has made a perfectly good argument that’s not dependent at all on PC.
I, personally, don’t really care if we call radical Islam radical Islam or not. I’d kind of prefer that we call Wahhabists Wahhabists, and Shi’ite fanatics Shi’ites, etc. That way you’re being more accurate— which is the putative reason for saying “Radical Islam”— without associating ‘radical’ with ‘Islam’ over and over.
iossarian did make a good argument.
I do not agree with it.
“Radical Islam” is a perfectly good expression. I think it’s out of favor with some folks simply because it came into general use after the 9/11 attacks, when Bush was President.
It is certainly a better description than what he suggested, “violent religious extremism”. When we talk about Christian extremism, we have no problem mentioning Christianity. Why the sensitivity to mentioning Islamic extremism?
| 875 |
rwdflynavy Fri, May 21, 2010 9:09:30am |
re: #815 Walter L. Newton
Really… if that’s what the term imports, both by action and common usage… then radical Islam means a violent aspect of Islam.
Just because YOU want to give the term a whole new meaning doesn’t change diddly-squat… does it. Your inner peace is much too loud.
I love this!
| 876 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:09:36am |
| 877 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:09:38am |
re: #869 000G
Unsurprisingly, one of the biggest causes of trouble in the islamic world is one group of muslims declaring another group of muslims unbelievers, leading to violence amongst themselves. See [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Right, because that never happens between groups of Christians.
/Northern Ireland
| 878 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:09:39am |
re: #853 Killgore Trout
Hmm, interesting. There’s a Jerry Kane who write for World Nut Daily
“Jerry and Joe were cleancut…”
Well, that absolves them of any possible crime, then.
| 879 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:09:54am |
re: #852 Shiplord Kirel
The far right-wing connection is very strong
Interesting. We’ll have to wait and see how much the wingnuts rally around him, they may turn him into a martyr. Alex Jones certainly will.
| 880 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:10:12am |
re: #855 Boogberg
How the hell do you figure Goldman are thieves and swindlers?
Well, it’s not because the names are Jewish, pal.
| 881 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:10:29am |
re: #874 reine.de.tout
I agree that ‘violent religious extremism’ is unnecessarily vague. I think his point about how ‘violent’ is more important and much better than ‘radical’, though, is a very strong one.
| 882 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:10:33am |
re: #847 iossarian
At least ask yourself the question: why is it important to remind people that these specific terrorists are/were Muslims? Why isn’t it enough to just say that they’re terrorists?
i answered this already. surely motive matters WRT terrorism…you really think that we can more effectively root it out by ignoring the motives and common threads?
| 883 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, May 21, 2010 9:10:37am |
re: #296 WindUpBird
You can’t bomb ideas.
You can’t shoot anger.
And you can’t stab paranoia.
And you can’t wage war on “terror”. Not successfully anyway.
Downding away.
| 884 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 21, 2010 9:11:11am |
re: #877 iossarian
Right, because that never happens between groups of Christians.
/Northern Ireland
I did not say that it didn’t (straw man). Evidently, in today’s world, it’s more of a problem within Islam, though.
| 885 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 9:11:18am |
re: #765 Obdicut
Ooh, and on the subject of any sort of -ism, let me represent the Harvard Implicit Association Test:
[Link: implicit.harvard.edu…]
It is a fascinating and interesting study— and by participating, you help researchers.
Just took the test. Very, very interesting.
| 886 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:11:31am |
re: #871 cliffster
Never, ever, ever look in the mirror and say “radical muslim” five times.
And never say “Beetlejuice”, period.
| 887 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:11:48am |
re: #882 Aceofwhat?
i answered this already. surely motive matters WRT terrorism…you really think that we can more effectively root it out by ignoring the motives and common threads?
OK, so why don’t we use the phrase “capitalist corporation” when describing BP? BP is motivated by its capitalist nature to behave in a certain way - isn’t it worth reminding people of that?
| 888 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:11:54am |
re: #867 iossarian
So, with reference to my point above, is it inaccurate to describe BP as a “corporation”, when we could more accurately describe them as a “capitalist corporation”?
Note that there are quite a few non-capitalist corporations around.
I’m ignoring your point above, simply because you are trying to deflect from your original point. As soon as you answer us why there is something inaccurate about using the term “radical Islam” then maybe we can go on to other subjects.
Play again?
| 889 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:12:15am |
re: #873 Obdicut
No, it’s rather obvious that in any religion other than a non-textual one, there has to be an actual doctrine of interpretation. This doctrine, in Catholicism, is an official one, rather than a communal one.
I’m unsure in what way you think it’s bullshit; can you explain?
What prohibition am i under not to interpret the Scriptures again? This is a new one…
| 890 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:12:42am |
Here are Jerry Kane’s financial seminars….
JKCH-1 Part 1 of 7
I just started listening but he’s railing against banks, paper money, government regulation, etc.
| 891 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:12:57am |
re: #873 Obdicut
No, it’s rather obvious that in any religion other than a non-textual one, there has to be an actual doctrine of interpretation. This doctrine, in Catholicism, is an official one, rather than a communal one.
I’m unsure in what way you think it’s bullshit; can you explain?
Because there is no prohibition on lay interpretation in Catholicism. I’m Catholic, I think I might know if there were. The onus is on you to prove me wrong.
| 892 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:13:28am |
re: #890 Killgore Trout
Yup, he’s a gold bug.
| 893 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:13:39am |
re: #805 iossarian
Please, bring on the “people won’t let me say it because it’s not PC” argument, though you may want to check out the company you’ll be keeping there.
Oh, gawd.
Not the “company you’ll be keeping” schtick.
puh-lease.
| 894 |
webevintage Fri, May 21, 2010 9:13:47am |
re: #878 Cato the Elder
“Jerry and Joe were cleancut…”
Which led them to kill 2 policemen and wound 2 others.
/
Why would a man begin a firefight with the police with his teenager in the van with him?
The Memphis paper said that an un-identified state conservation officer saved other cops by ramming his car into the van.
| 895 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:14:42am |
re: #876 Obdicut
Doctrine exists, would be the easiest way to put it.
you mean relative agreement on the meaning of certain items? of course. that would be somewhat different than what you said…
| 896 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:15:04am |
re: #875 rwdflynavy
I love this!
(Disclaimer… Biff Rose has become an old, crazy man who has shown evident signs of anti-semitism in his waning years. The following is in no way an endorsement for the current “entertainer” named Biff Rose).
It’s not mine, it’s from a former friend of mine Biff Rose from his 1968/69 song “Buzz the Fuzz” (also covered by David Bowie live at a concert)… look the song up if interested.
| 897 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 9:15:37am |
re: #880 Cato the Elder
Well, it’s not because the names are Jewish, pal.
Well I’m sure it isn’t. So why then?
| 898 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:16:16am |
re: #885 garhighway
Ain’t it? There are lots of ‘em, too.
Here’s an interesting tidbit:
I took the test in regards to race about three years ago, and again about a year ago.
Three years ago, I was living in the Tenderloin, which is a slum neighborhood in San Francisco. It has a high percentage of black residents and transients, a lot of drug dealing, a lot of petty crime. So, basically, I saw high numbers of black people involved in crime every day, as well as just behaving generally piss-poor. When I took the test at that time, it showed I had a high negative association with blacks, and a positive one with whites.
When I took the test last year, I was living in the same neighborhood I am now, Western Addition, a neighborhood with a lot of projects, but well-kept-up projects with a lot of involvement from local churches and community groups. I see very little crime, and I see lots of happy black schoolchildren every day, the three black barbershops on Divis that are always full and vibrant, and a local gospel church where I can hear a joyous noise every Sunday. When I took the test a year ago, I had no implicit association of positive or negative for blacks versus whites. Oh, and Obama got elected too— I don’t know how much to count that.
I just think that it’s interesting that I had such wildly different results, and that I can (unscientifically, but compellingly) point to a reason for it.
| 899 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:16:28am |
re: #887 iossarian
OK, so why don’t we use the phrase “capitalist corporation” when describing BP? BP is motivated by its capitalist nature to behave in a certain way - isn’t it worth reminding people of that?
yikes. really?
no. they didn’t blow up the rig because their capitalist leader told them to. that would be, uhh, as opposed to Faizal, who tried to blow up a car because his Muslim leader told him to.
see how far you’ve strayed?
| 900 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 21, 2010 9:16:29am |
re: #871 cliffster
Never, ever, ever look in the mirror and say “radical muslim” five times.
Or “Biggie Smalls.”
| 901 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:16:52am |
re: #888 Walter L. Newton
I’m ignoring your point above, simply because you are trying to deflect from your original point. As soon as you answer us why there is something inaccurate about using the term “radical Islam” then maybe we can go on to other subjects.
Play again?
I already stated my opinion that it is perfectly possible to be both “radical” and a Muslim, and not to be a terrorist (indeed I know and have worked with such people). Hence the term is inaccurate if used to mean “Muslim terrorists”.
| 902 |
Stanley Sea Fri, May 21, 2010 9:17:01am |
re: #896 Walter L. Newton
(Disclaimer… Biff Rose has become an old, crazy man who has shown evident signs of anti-semitism in his waning years. The following is in no way an endorsement for the current “entertainer” named Biff Rose).
It’s not mine, it’s from a former friend of mine Biff Rose from his 1968/69 song “Buzz the Fuzz” (also covered by David Bowie live at a concert)… look the song up if interested.
Interesting.
| 903 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:17:18am |
Proudly posted on glenn beck’s 9-12 project…..
Two exceptional nights with Jerry Kane! - successes surrounding Foreclosure & Credit Card Debt along with several interesting technologies!
| 904 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:17:43am |
re: #894 webevintage
Which led them to kill 2 policemen and wound 2 others.
/
Why would a man begin a firefight with the police with his teenager in the van with him?
The Memphis paper said that an un-identified state conservation officer saved other cops by ramming his car into the van.
The site says the son was stopped and detained for not having a driver’s license in New Mexico last year, and then goes on to suggest that they may have been targeted in Tennessee for that reason.
Yep.
And who makes a point of not carrying a driver’s license? People like Timothy McVeigh, that’s who.
| 905 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 9:17:49am |
re: #898 Obdicut
Ain’t it? There are lots of ‘em, too.
Here’s an interesting tidbit:
I took the test in regards to race about three years ago, and again about a year ago.
Three years ago, I was living in the Tenderloin, which is a slum neighborhood in San Francisco. It has a high percentage of black residents and transients, a lot of drug dealing, a lot of petty crime. So, basically, I saw high numbers of black people involved in crime every day, as well as just behaving generally piss-poor. When I took the test at that time, it showed I had a high negative association with blacks, and a positive one with whites.
When I took the test last year, I was living in the same neighborhood I am now, Western Addition, a neighborhood with a lot of projects, but well-kept-up projects with a lot of involvement from local churches and community groups. I see very little crime, and I see lots of happy black schoolchildren every day, the three black barbershops on Divis that are always full and vibrant, and a local gospel church where I can hear a joyous noise every Sunday. When I took the test a year ago, I had no implicit association of positive or negative for blacks versus whites. Oh, and Obama got elected too— I don’t know how much to count that.
I just think that it’s interesting that I had such wildly different results, and that I can (unscientifically, but compellingly) point to a reason for it.
So maybe if I gain some weight I’ll score differently.
| 906 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:17:57am |
re: #833 webevintage
I commented to my hubby last night about my disappointment in the current administrations reluctance to do something about the last one’s easing of regulations until a disaster happens because, well that’s what happens when you don’t make businesses follow the rules.
I also was confused just WHY BP is being allowed to still be the boss, for lack of a better word, in response to this disaster. Maybe I want Obama and the Coast Guard to do something that really cannot be done?
I think by law, he who caused the clean-up is in charge of the clean-up.
Here, there is a great deal of concern about the toxicity of one of the dispersants BP is using, which has not been tested in deep waters.
It’s taken a week of urging by Louisiana officials to get EPA to finally admit it has NOT been tested, and using it in the Gulf right now is using the entire Gulf as a scientific experiment. BP will use this dispersant as long as the EPA has approved it for use. I think that approval is being withdrawn, and BP will have to use something else, now.
| 907 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:18:14am |
re: #889 Aceofwhat?
What prohibition am i under not to interpret the Scriptures again? This is a new one…
I don’t really know what to say. If you interpret the scriptures and decide, for example, that you agree with Arius, then you’re a heretic according to the Catholic church.
| 908 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:18:38am |
re: #899 Aceofwhat?
yikes. really?
no. they didn’t blow up the rig because their capitalist leader told them to. that would be, uhh, as opposed to Faizal, who tried to blow up a car because his Muslim leader told him to.
see how far you’ve strayed?
It’s pretty clear that they cut a bunch of corners because they wanted to avoid the costs associated with safety tests. What is the name of the system that compels organizations to maximize profits?
| 909 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:18:50am |
re: #890 Killgore Trout
Here are Jerry Kane’s financial seminars…
JKCH-1 Part 1 of 7[Video]I just started listening but he’s railing against banks, paper money, government regulation, etc.
this anti-paper money thing seems to be a highly common thread…it’s starting to make me wonder if it might not be a really strong indicator of potential whacknutjobbiness…
| 910 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:19:24am |
re: #908 iossarian
It’s pretty clear that they cut a bunch of corners because they wanted to avoid the costs associated with safety tests. What is the name of the system that compels organizations to maximize profits?
You’re saying you think radical muslims blow shit up because they want to save a little money here and there?
| 911 |
Jeff In Ohio Fri, May 21, 2010 9:19:48am |
“What I don’t like from the president’s administration is this sort of ‘I’ll put my boot heel on the throat of BP.’ I think that sounds really un-American in his criticism of business,” Rand Paul said. “I’ve heard nothing from BP about not paying for the spill. And I think it’s part of this sort of blame game society in the sense that it’s always got to be someone’s fault instead of the fact that sometimes accidents happen.”
So does libertarianism = I got mine, fuck you and if mine fucks your life up, fuck you again?
| 912 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:20:21am |
re: #883 Fozzie Bear
And you can’t wage war on “terror”. Not successfully anyway.
Downding away.
are you disappointed yet at the lack of downdings;)
| 913 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:20:24am |
re: #901 iossarian
I already stated my opinion that it is perfectly possible to be both “radical” and a Muslim, and not to be a terrorist (indeed I know and have worked with such people). Hence the term is inaccurate if used to mean “Muslim terrorists”.
You comment above is a memorial to your total lack of knowledge about Islam. If you have read the Quran and the commentaries, you will find many the many foundational discussion about the need for violence in order to spread the religion.
As I said above, if you want to be accurate, you should use the term “moderate Muslim” to refer to most of the followers, since the rest follow Islam, which is violent.
| 914 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 9:20:47am |
re: #910 cliffster
You’re saying you think radical muslims blow shit up because they want to save a little money here and there?
Wow. What a wildly off-the-mark rewriting of the prior post.
| 915 |
simoom Fri, May 21, 2010 9:21:01am |
Yesterday, when flipping channels, I stopped on Glenn Beck’s show for a bit and he was having one of his crazy chalkboard conspiracy days. I only watched for a few minutes, but I could have sworn I saw him put the President’s mother up on the board, and then Tim Geithner next to her, and call him “his dad”.
I finally found the segment on YouTube. This link should jump 3 minutes and 30 seconds in, directly to the part I watched yesterday:
You will be amazed what you find. For instance, we have found micro lending was a big thing to the Ford Foundation. In fact, Mary was giving advice to this woman. Do you know who this woman is? Barack Obama’s mother.Mary giving advice to Barack Obama’s mother. And do you know who Barack Obama was doing micro financing with? The Ford Foundation. Guess who was also doing micro financing on the Ford Foundation. His dad. Timothy Geithner. Isn’t that - what are the odds? Man, it’s just - it just becoming a very, very small, small world. Very small.
Did someone prank Beck’s cue-cards? :P
| 917 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:21:13am |
re: #910 cliffster
You’re saying you think radical muslims blow shit up because they want to save a little money here and there?
No, I’m saying:
A) radical muslims “blow shit up” because their religious leaders tell them there is a religious imperative so to do
B) capitalist corporations cut corners (leading to massive oil spills) because of the capitalist imperative to maximize profit
Why is one motivation important and not the other?
| 918 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 9:21:43am |
re: #892 Killgore Trout
Yup, he’s a gold bug.
He may not have a formal association with them, but his ideology is pure Paulian/JBS currency crank stuff.
Btw, according to the Commercial Appeal, the now-deceased founder of the white supremacist church to which the van was registered, one Harold R. Redfeairn, was himself arrested for shooting and wounding a police officer during a 1979 traffic stop.
| 919 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:21:48am |
re: #881 Obdicut
I agree that ‘violent religious extremism’ is unnecessarily vague. I think his point about how ‘violent’ is more important and much better than ‘radical’, though, is a very strong one.
That could be.
I object to the super-sensitivity to identifying these acts with Islamists and those who subscribe to a violent (or radical) interpretation of Islam. The term used can be radical, or violent, or whatever. It’s those who want to shy away from identifying the association with Islam that I have a problem with.
Iossarian’s suggestion left out the “Islam”, replacing it with generic “religious”. Muddies the waters, IMO.
| 920 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:22:02am |
re: #908 iossarian
It’s pretty clear that they cut a bunch of corners because they wanted to avoid the costs associated with safety tests. What is the name of the system that compels organizations to maximize profits?
Immoral, illegal… maximize profits does not automatically equate to ignore safety… you paint with an unfound broad brush… otherwise know as a bigot.
| 921 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:22:27am |
re: #917 iossarian
I’m sure in your head that is a brilliant analogy.
| 922 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:22:38am |
re: #908 iossarian
It’s pretty clear that they cut a bunch of corners because they wanted to avoid the costs associated with safety tests. What is the name of the system that compels organizations to maximize profits?
Yikes.
Didn’t they receive MMS approval? What is the name of the system that approved their requests at every step…?
I’d like to keep playing this game, but in the spirit of full disclosure, i want to keep playing because it’s helping me, not you…just trying to be honest…
| 923 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:23:10am |
re: #914 garhighway
Wow. What a wildly off-the-mark rewriting of the prior post.
it totally was. OTOH, it made about the same amount of sense…
| 924 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:23:18am |
re: #897 Boogberg
Well I’m sure it isn’t. So why then?
Because it’s just a bigger Ponzi scheme.
So Goldman Sachs, the world’s greatest and smuggest investment bank, has been sued for fraud by the American Securities and Exchange Commission. Legally, the case hangs on a technicality.
Morally, however, the Goldman Sachs case may turn into a final referendum on the greed-is-good ethos that conquered America sometime in the 80s – and in the years since has aped other horrifying American trends such as boybands and reality shows in spreading across the western world like a venereal disease.
When Britain and other countries were engulfed in the flood of defaults and derivative losses that emerged from the collapse of the American housing bubble two years ago, few people understood that the crash had its roots in the lunatic greed-centered objectivist religion, fostered back in the 50s and 60s by ponderous emigre novelist Ayn Rand.
[…]
It’s an important moment in the history of modern global capitalism: whether or not to move forward into a world of greed without limits.
Bugger Goldmine Sacks.
| 925 |
simoom Fri, May 21, 2010 9:23:26am |
| 926 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:23:26am |
re: #914 garhighway
Wow. What a wildly off-the-mark rewriting of the prior post.
fight stupid with stupid?
| 927 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:23:27am |
re: #921 cliffster
I’m sure in your head that is a brilliant analogy.
Iossarian got a copy of “Socialism for Dummies” for Christmas.
| 928 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 9:23:48am |
re: #903 Killgore Trout
Proudly posted on glenn beck’s 9-12 project…
Two exceptional nights with Jerry Kane! - successes surrounding Foreclosure & Credit Card Debt along with several interesting technologies!
Holy.
Crap.
I take back my #918. It looks like he WAS formally associated with them.
| 929 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 9:23:59am |
re: #923 Aceofwhat?
it totally was. OTOH, it made about the same amount of sense…
An eye for an eye, a gibberish for a gibberish…
| 930 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:24:30am |
re: #919 reine.de.tout
Iossarian’s suggestion left out the “Islam”, replacing it with generic “religious”. Muddies the waters, IMO.
I agree with that part, certainly. Though again, I’d even prefer if we associated people with the country. I really, really, really, really think that we wwould be much better as a nation if, after 9/11, we had stuck to identifying the terrorists as Saudi Arabian radical Muslims who had received aid and support from the theocratic Islamicist regime in Afghanistan. By truncating it so often, as we did, and removing the association with countries— specifically Saudi Arabia— I feel that we lost an important bit of information about who we are fighting.
| 931 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:25:20am |
| 932 |
simoom Fri, May 21, 2010 9:25:31am |
re: #925 simoom
Doh, the “�t=3m30s” got removed again. The odd part is it works in the preview before posting. Ah well, just manually jump to 3:30 I guess :P.
| 933 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:25:48am |
| 934 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:26:01am |
re: #917 iossarian
No, I’m saying:
A) radical muslims “blow shit up” because their religious leaders tell them there is a religious imperative so to do
B) capitalist corporations cut corners (leading to massive oil spills) because of the capitalist imperative to maximize profit
Why is one motivation important and not the other?
holy crap
| 935 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:26:10am |
If the IRA comes back to life and starts bombing Britain again, will anyone object to calling them “radical Irish nationalists”? Will the Irish start joining up by the legion if we do?
Didn’t think so.
| 936 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:26:13am |
re: #932 simoom
They have stuff to prevent you doing that, because it interferes with ad delivery, I believe.
| 937 |
Robert O. Fri, May 21, 2010 9:26:15am |
….and now, Rand is criticizing Obama for being so mean to BP!
But who can be surprised that a Tea Partier is supportive of BP’s Sons of Liberty spilling crude into the sea and holding a “Gulf Oil Party”?
| 938 |
avanti Fri, May 21, 2010 9:26:19am |
re: #911 Jeff In Ohio
So does libertarianism = I got mine, fuck you and if mine fucks your life up, fuck you again?
Again, as was said by another poster, it’s 2D thinking in a 3D world. A company “should” care more about the lives of it’s workers and the environment than making a buck, and we would not need government regulation. History shows us that does not work.
| 939 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:26:23am |
| 940 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:28:00am |
| 941 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:28:03am |
re: #918 Shiplord Kirel
He may not have a formal association with them, but his ideology is pure Paulian/JBS currency crank stuff.
Btw, according to the Commercial Appeal, the now-deceased founder of the white supremacist church to which the van was registered, one Harold R. Redfeairn, was himself arrested for shooting and wounding a police officer during a 1979 traffic stop.
Interesting. Do we know if Kane was affiliated with the church yet? I suspect he probably was.
| 942 |
SpaceJesus Fri, May 21, 2010 9:28:09am |
neat article at salon about rand paul
| 943 |
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Fri, May 21, 2010 9:28:43am |
re: #873 Obdicut
No, it’s rather obvious that in any religion other than a non-textual one, there has to be an actual doctrine of interpretation. This doctrine, in Catholicism, is an official one, rather than a communal one.
I’m unsure in what way you think it’s bullshit; can you explain?
tl;dr: it means whatever the Church says it means, until the Church decides it means something else.
This message brought to you by a grant from Our Lady of Temporal Expediency.
| 944 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:28:47am |
re: #922 Aceofwhat?
Yikes.
Didn’t they receive MMS approval? What is the name of the system that approved their requests at every step…?
I’d like to keep playing this game, but in the spirit of full disclosure, i want to keep playing because it’s helping me, not you…just trying to be honest…
The MMS is very ineffective (and some would say corrupt) indeed. This is because there has been a process over the last 20-30 years, accelerated over the last 10 or so, of deregulating business and reducing the effectiveness of remaining regulation.
| 945 |
webevintage Fri, May 21, 2010 9:30:29am |
We had a mining accident that was very tragic. … Then we come in and it’s always someone’s fault. Maybe sometimes accidents happen.
Rand Paul
“It is true that sometime accidents happen! It is also true that there is a concept that lies between “active, malicious attempts to harm” and “unpreventable events that could never be foreseen.” It is into this realm that the legal concept known as “negligence” falls, a concept that is pretty well established in American law. One of the most common situations in which this legal concept might be important is one in which a company involved in resource extraction fails to minimize the risk of an accident, because doing so would cut into said company’s profits, and as a result people die.”
wonkette.com
| 946 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:30:59am |
re: #927 Walter L. Newton
Iossarian got a copy of “Socialism for Dummies” for Christmas.
Name calling. Nice.
| 947 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, May 21, 2010 9:31:00am |
re: #930 Obdicut
I agree with that part, certainly. Though again, I’d even prefer if we associated people with the country. I really, really, really, really think that we wwould be much better as a nation if, after 9/11, we had stuck to identifying the terrorists as Saudi Arabian radical Muslims who had received aid and support from the theocratic Islamicist regime in Afghanistan. By truncating it so often, as we did, and removing the association with countries— specifically Saudi Arabia— I feel that we lost an important bit of information about who we are fighting.
And this right here is why the “war on terror” is so ill conceived. You cannot define victory conditions for a war against a tactic, only a specific entity. So long as no specific and identifiable entity can be named as the opponent, it is a law enforcement issue masquerading as a war. Law enforcement never ends. Wars need to end, or they escalate.
| 948 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:31:15am |
re: #943 negativ
[Link: catholic-resources.org…]
tl;dr: it means whatever the Church says it means, until the Church decides it means something else.
This message brought to you by a grant from Our Lady of Temporal Expediency.
protestants are neat like that; less centralized decision-making…OTOH, our weakness is that too many idjits do the snake-handler bit and go off the rails.
| 949 |
avanti Fri, May 21, 2010 9:31:23am |
re: #942 spacejesus
neat article at salon about rand paul
[Link: www.salon.com…]
From your link:
“Ironically, the best way into this point comes from another brilliant libertarian, legal scholar Richard Epstein. Says Epstein, “To be against Title II in 1964 would be to be brain-dead to the underlying realities of how this world works.”
| 950 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:31:36am |
re: #847 iossarian
…
At least ask yourself the question: why is it important to remind people that these specific terrorists are/were Muslims? Why isn’t it enough to just say that they’re terrorists?
We identify Christian radicals as “Christian”.
Again, why the sensitivity to Muslims committing terror acts in the name of Islam?
| 951 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:31:42am |
re: #944 iossarian
The MMS is very ineffective (and some would say corrupt) indeed. This is because there has been a process over the last 20-30 years, accelerated over the last 10 or so, of deregulating business and reducing the effectiveness of remaining regulation.
Really… last 10 years? Do you know this particular oil rig was cited more times during the Bush administration than the Obama administration, since the current administration never cited it and was actually going to give it an award.
| 952 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:31:42am |
re: #938 avanti
Unrestrained capitalism would be an absolutely monstrous thing, as we can see examples of throughout history. Luckily, even at its worst, humans are involved in capitalism and ameliorate it.
Here’s something I wrote on capitalism the other day:
Captilaism is an economic method that creates a high efficiency in the distribution of goods and services— and does so more and more efficiently the more accurate and widespread the information in the system is. However, since in capitalism anything can accrue value, that information (and false information presented convincingly) accrues value, becoming a set of goods and services that then serve to create inefficiency in the rest of the economy. So, in order to ameliorate the natural tendencies of sheer capitalism on its own in an economic sense, some outside force needs to be present to keep information accurate and free.
Likewise, capitalism on its own had no ethics, morals, or any other sort of social tie. It is an economic system, not a social system, and while it will provide goods and services demanded for social reasons, it will not innovate such things in the same way that it innovates other goods or services. So for any social service, an outside force must be present to create demand for it in a pure capitalistic environment.
Finally, a pure capitalistic entity is lawless and has no values. It is not true to say that corporations only seek profit, because corporations are staffed by human beings, who have emotions and empathy and all the rest of that. However, in the abstract, a corporation has no incentive to hold to any stricture of values or laws. This means that a corporation provides the opportunity for people who themselves lack values to act in a value-free fashion— such as making the decision to sacrifice the lives of workers to make profits. So, an outside force is necessary in order to make sure that corporations do not act in ways that are destructive or unethical, since they have no inherent values.
| 953 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:32:20am |
re: #944 iossarian
The MMS is very ineffective (and some would say corrupt) indeed. This is because there has been a process over the last 20-30 years, accelerated over the last 10 or so, of deregulating business and reducing the effectiveness of remaining regulation.
in short, your analogy was awful and out of respect for you, i will work to disassociate it with you as quickly as possible…
| 954 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 9:33:00am |
re: #941 Killgore Trout
Interesting. Do we know if Kane was affiliated with the church yet? I suspect he probably was.
Killgore, e-mail me as soon as you get a chance.
| 955 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:33:13am |
| 957 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:34:24am |
re: #946 iossarian
Name calling. Nice.
If you consider that “name calling” you had better “man” up because it gets much more heated than that here at times. This is a tough room. Don’t bring up a subject unless you are prepared to get all sorts of response, from hand-holding sympathy to outright vicious disagreement.
Just a little advice from someone who has been around here a real long time.
| 958 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:34:28am |
re: #948 Aceofwhat?
Less, but there’s still plenty of doctrine in most mainstream Protestant churches. The splintering of churches and congregations is often due to disagreements over doctrine.
| 959 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:35:59am |
re: #805 iossarian
Please, bring on the “people won’t let me say it because it’s not PC” argument, though you may want to check out the company you’ll be keeping there.
We can disagree and discuss without this sort of bullshit.
I’ve managed to make my points without making dark vague accusations about the company YOU keep. Please grant me the same courtesy.
| 960 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:36:07am |
re: #956 MandyManners
I just got done locking up The Kid’s bike. He has a long, long drive and 10 acres on which to ride that bike but he thinks he can ride on the road?! I know it’s a country lane but, people fly down it. It’s gonna’ be a long summer, and this is but the first day. *grumble*
bike goes bye-bye, kid.
| 961 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:36:23am |
Time for a work-break.
I leave you with my latest PC effort, offensive only to those who might want to kill me for mocking Jesus, Buddha, or Zoroaster.
This Poem Does Not Mock Mohammed
Well, Jesus never married.
He must have been a loon.
And Buddha, after finding peace,
Blew up like a balloon.
Zoroaster’s just plain weird.
His followers get et by birds.
Mohammed, though, Mohammed:
[censored] [deleted] turds.
Copyright © 2010 Cato the Elder
| 962 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:36:29am |
re: #951 Walter L. Newton
Really… last 10 years? Do you know this particular oil rig was cited more times during the Bush administration than the Obama administration, since the current administration never cited it and was actually going to give it an award.
[Link: www.mcclatchydc.com…]
I think that the Obama administration is engaged in a process of gradually increasing regulation of business, opposed every step of the way by the Republicans and to a lesser extent by centrist Democrats. It would be better if the process was more rapid, but that’s politics.
It doesn’t matter whether the individuals neglecting to regulate business are Democrats or Republicans. The fact is that deregulating business allows catastrophes like this to happen.
| 963 |
yoshicastmaster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:36:40am |
hey all- nothing on whether maddow misrepresented rand?
her “gotcha” moment hinged on him saying that the courier never endorses republicans, but in the first video he doesnt say that. (see my previous post here)
was maddow wrong or lying? it seems like a strange mistake.
| 964 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:38:16am |
re: #963 yoshicastmaster
I’m sorry, but what are you talking about? Why are you focusing on that one part of the interview? I don’t think that was a ‘hinge’ of the interview in the least, and she discussed far more important things Rand said.
I haven’t checked it out because it seems kind of trivial; can you explain why its so important to you, compared to the rest of the interview and Rand’s other statements?
| 965 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:38:17am |
re: #953 Aceofwhat?
in short, your analogy was awful and out of respect for you, i will work to disassociate it with you as quickly as possible…
How was my analogy awful? Some Muslim leaders advocate violence, some capitalist organizations cut corners, abetted by pro-capitalist governments that neglect to enforce regulations.
Why is it relevant that the religious people are Muslims, but not that the organizations are capitalist in nature?
| 967 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:38:58am |
re: #961 Cato the Elder
There once was a man named Muhammad
who [bleee eee eee eee eee eee eee
eee eee eee eee eee
eee eee eee eee eee
eee eee eee eee eee eee eee eee eeep]
| 968 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 9:39:19am |
| 969 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:39:34am |
re: #965 iossarian
How was my analogy awful? Some Muslim leaders advocate violence, some capitalist organizations cut corners, abetted by pro-capitalist governments that neglect to enforce regulations.
Why is it relevant that the religious people are Muslims, but not that the organizations are capitalist in nature?
It’s been my experience that capitalists don’t deliberately blow up their very expensive equipment and trained people.
| 970 |
webevintage Fri, May 21, 2010 9:39:42am |
re: #963 yoshicastmaster
hey all- nothing on whether maddow misrepresented rand?
her “gotcha” moment hinged on him saying that the courier never endorses republicans, but in the first video he doesnt say that. (see my previous post here)
was maddow wrong or lying? it seems like a strange mistake.
hahahahahaha
Really?
That’s all you got out of the 2 nights of Dr. Paul and his idiotic ideas?
| 971 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:40:07am |
re: #958 Obdicut
Less, but there’s still plenty of doctrine in most mainstream Protestant churches. The splintering of churches and congregations is often due to disagreements over doctrine.
sure. no question.
but Protestantism, with a few minor exceptions, i’m sure, encourages interpretation with care.
| 972 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:40:46am |
re: #962 iossarian
I think that the Obama administration is engaged in a process of gradually increasing regulation of business, opposed every step of the way by the Republicans and to a lesser extent by centrist Democrats. It would be better if the process was more rapid, but that’s politics.
It doesn’t matter whether the individuals neglecting to regulate business are Democrats or Republicans. The fact is that deregulating business allows catastrophes like this to happen.
Well, it mattered to you who was regulating what (or not regulating) BEFORE I linked you to this article… change your tune awful fast. Your flip-flopping, defections, obtuse reversals are getting boring… you need to consider making a point, sticking to it, and defending yourself without going on tangents… it won’t work here.
And take some advice from others here who have tried to tell you a few things.
| 973 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:41:02am |
Dow’s back up. This is what’s known as a “sucker’s market”
| 975 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:42:03am |
re: #954 Shiplord Kirel
Killgore, e-mail me as soon as you get a chance.
You’ll need to switch your nic to an email address.
| 976 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:42:09am |
re: #969 reine.de.tout
It’s been my experience that capitalists don’t deliberately blow up their very expensive equipment and trained people.
Say you have 100 oil rigs, and you know that by dropping a certain safety test you know that your profits will increase, even accounting for the fact that the risk of an explosion goes up 10% (i.e., you factor that risk into your profit projection).
I used to work in costing risk. Believe me, this is deliberate. BP knows what the risks and costs are associated with these safety procedures - they are compelled to find out by the profit motive.
| 977 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 9:43:31am |
| 978 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:43:33am |
re: #962 iossarian
I think that the Obama administration is engaged in a process of gradually increasing regulation of business, opposed every step of the way by the Republicans and to a lesser extent by centrist Democrats. It would be better if the process was more rapid, but that’s politics.
It doesn’t matter whether the individuals neglecting to regulate business are Democrats or Republicans. The fact is that deregulating business allows catastrophes like this to happen.
And that gradual increase in regulation explains why this Administration was going to give BP an award, while the previous one cited them, as per Walter?
re: #951 Walter L. Newton
Really… last 10 years? Do you know this particular oil rig was cited more times during the Bush administration than the Obama administration, since the current administration never cited it and was actually going to give it an award.
[Link: mcclatchydc.com…]
| 979 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:44:02am |
re: #969 reine.de.tout
It’s been my experience that capitalists don’t deliberately blow up their very expensive equipment and trained people.
Well, Iossarian does have somewhat of a point. Capitalists, for example, did run the Lowell mills with little safety precautions, even though they knew it causes death and dismemberment. Likewise, BP proceeded— as I understand it, and please correct me if I’m wrong— with an unsafe plan even though they knew it was risky. They didn’t deliberately blow it up, but they deliberately gambled with probabilities in a way that did directly lead to it blowing up. In addition, capitalists have often murdered labor organizers— and not just in the past, but recently, like Santiago Rafael Cruz.
| 980 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:44:09am |
re: #965 iossarian
How was my analogy awful? Some Muslim leaders advocate violence, some capitalist organizations cut corners, abetted by pro-capitalist governments that neglect to enforce regulations.
Why is it relevant that the religious people are Muslims, but not that the organizations are capitalist in nature?
*facepalm*
really? no other organizations cut corners?
you’ve never seen a union cut a corner? never seen a nonprofit cut a corner? the government has never cut a corner?
| 981 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:44:14am |
re: #972 Walter L. Newton
Well, it mattered to you who was regulating what (or not regulating) BEFORE I linked you to this article… change your tune awful fast. Your flip-flopping, defections, obtuse reversals are getting boring… you need to consider making a point, sticking to it, and defending yourself without going on tangents… it won’t work here.
And take some advice from others here who have tried to tell you a few things.
It didn’t matter to me, to be honest. For example, I think Clinton basically carried out a lot of the same kind of deregulation.
I do think that the Bush administration did more to reduce the effectiveness of existing regulation though.
| 982 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 21, 2010 9:44:24am |
| 983 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:44:42am |
re: #971 Aceofwhat?
Yep. It’s much less textual, I agree, and a lot more about a personal connection with God.
| 984 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:44:55am |
| 985 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:45:29am |
re: #982 Shiplord Kirel
Sorry, I was running behind in the thread. I’m all caught up now.
| 986 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:45:37am |
re: #962 iossarian
I think that the Obama administration is engaged in a process of gradually increasing regulation of business, opposed every step of the way by the Republicans and to a lesser extent by centrist Democrats. It would be better if the process was more rapid, but that’s politics.
wow, it’s going to take two washes to get all of that partisan out of your shirt…
| 987 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 9:46:10am |
re: #973 cliffster
Possibly. It could be a bottom (or near bottom) as well. The trend IS down, however.
| 988 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 9:46:37am |
I like how the word “cite” can mean either “impugn” or “praise”.
I cite you all!
Good afternoon.
| 989 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:47:05am |
re: #983 Obdicut
Yep. It’s much less textual, I agree, and a lot more about a personal connection with God.
which brings its own weaknesses, mind you…lots of folks who are overly confident in their ability to interpret Scripture without help. i don’t want to whitewash anything here.
| 990 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:47:29am |
re: #976 iossarian
Say you have 100 oil rigs, and you know that by dropping a certain safety test you know that your profits will increase, even accounting for the fact that the risk of an explosion goes up 10% (i.e., you factor that risk into your profit projection).
I used to work in costing risk. Believe me, this is deliberate. BP knows what the risks and costs are associated with these safety procedures - they are compelled to find out by the profit motive.
I am not disagreeing that BP made several bad decisions leading to this blow-out, in order to save some time (and money).
In fact, in threads about this incident over the past few weeks, I have made exactly that point. And they should be held accountable for their decisions, to the people along the Gulf of Mexico, and to those killed in this incident.
But their decisions were not based on a desire to blow up the rig and kill people. The effect is just as awful; but the motive was completely different from Violent Religious Events that happen to be perpetrated by those of the Islamic faith who subscribe to radical interpretations that they think directs them to Kill Us.
| 991 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:47:33am |
re: #980 Aceofwhat?
*facepalm*
really? no other organizations cut corners?
you’ve never seen a union cut a corner? never seen a nonprofit cut a corner? the government has never cut a corner?
Of course they do. The question is, why? My point is that organizations cut corners because it is in their interest to do so - they are motivated by maximizing profit, aka the capitalist motive. Hence, it is relevant to point out that motive when discussing an organizations actions.
| 992 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:48:16am |
re: #986 Aceofwhat?
wow, it’s going to take two washes to get all of that partisan out of your shirt…
Do you disagree with the assertion that, overall, the Obama administration is increasing the regulation of business?
| 993 |
KingKenrod Fri, May 21, 2010 9:49:11am |
re: #976 iossarian
Say you have 100 oil rigs, and you know that by dropping a certain safety test you know that your profits will increase, even accounting for the fact that the risk of an explosion goes up 10% (i.e., you factor that risk into your profit projection).
I used to work in costing risk. Believe me, this is deliberate. BP knows what the risks and costs are associated with these safety procedures - they are compelled to find out by the profit motive.
They wouldn’t be drilling for oil without the profit motive.
But let’s say they weren’t drilling for oil for profit. Let’s say they were drilling for oil because President Chavez told them to drill for the glory of Socialism and the advancement of the common man. Do you think they would be more careful, knowing that displeasing Chavez would lead to state blackballing and maybe even criminal charges?
They execute people who make bad business decisions in China, you know.
| 994 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 21, 2010 9:49:26am |
re: #981 iossarian
It didn’t matter to me, to be honest. For example, I think Clinton basically carried out a lot of the same kind of deregulation.
I do think that the Bush administration did more to reduce the effectiveness of existing regulation though.
Once again you are deflecting. You brought up the current BP oil rig problem, I linked you to information about the safety problems of that rig, and now suddenly, your conversation broad-brushes out to regulation in general… and you don’t even address the facts that I gave you about THIS RIG.
Even Salazer is more honest than you are about this topic…
You’re partisan is showing… and it’s boring.
| 995 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, May 21, 2010 9:49:26am |
re: #990 reine.de.tout
It is fair to inquire, however, whether the intent really matters, especially to those who have been directly impacted. (I.e., killed, maimed, polluted out of a job, poisoned, etc.)
| 996 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:49:36am |
re: #979 Obdicut
Well, Iossarian does have somewhat of a point. Capitalists, for example, did run the Lowell mills with little safety precautions, even though they knew it causes death and dismemberment. Likewise, BP proceeded— as I understand it, and please correct me if I’m wrong— with an unsafe plan even though they knew it was risky. They didn’t deliberately blow it up, but they deliberately gambled with probabilities in a way that did directly lead to it blowing up. In addition, capitalists have often murdered labor organizers— and not just in the past, but recently, like Santiago Rafael Cruz.
eh. humans cut corners. unions cut corners. attorneys general cut corners. Iossarian, i’m sure, would be the first to tell me that Bush cut corners.
we all have an incentive to cut corners. the analogy smells like a formaldehyde-soaked shark in vertebrate biology lab.
(trust me…shark oil + formaldehyde = baaad)
| 997 |
avanti Fri, May 21, 2010 9:49:56am |
re: #963 yoshicastmaster
hey all- nothing on whether maddow misrepresented rand?
her “gotcha” moment hinged on him saying that the courier never endorses republicans, but in the first video he doesnt say that. (see my previous post here)
was maddow wrong or lying? it seems like a strange mistake.
I heard him mention that they don’t endorse Republicans on live TV.
| 998 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:50:13am |
re: #989 Aceofwhat?
which brings its own weaknesses, mind you…lots of folks who are overly confident in their ability to interpret Scripture without help. i don’t want to whitewash anything here.
Oh sure.
I mean, basically, I prefer people like you. Hopefully I’m not going to make you blush, but to me— and I know you’re reading Dennett, so this should make sense— your attitude towards God and faith is a summation of all your love for humanity, your love for your family, your desire to improve yourself, and your hope for better things for the world. I don’t see you as needing an outside force to tell you how to act or behave, I see you as judging outside sources— such as any religion— based on how closely they hew to your excellent set of ethics and morals.
| 999 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:50:23am |
re: #980 Aceofwhat?
*facepalm*
really? no other organizations cut corners?
you’ve never seen a union cut a corner? never seen a nonprofit cut a corner?
the government has never cut a corner?
And they are just now withdrawing that approval.
| 1000 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, May 21, 2010 9:50:36am |
re: #996 Aceofwhat?
And that is exactly why strong regulations are needed.
| 1001 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:50:37am |
re: #990 reine.de.tout
But their decisions were not based on a desire to blow up the rig and kill people. The effect is just as awful; but the motive was completely different from Violent Religious Events that happen to be perpetrated by those of the Islamic faith who subscribe to radical interpretations that they think directs them to Kill Us.
Who cares what their desires were? They took decisions knowing that they were increasing the risk of disaster. When you consider that they have however many drilling operations, this means that they effectively knew that the number of such disasters would increase.
I personally do not care whether the man who comes to kill me does so for money or religion.
| 1002 |
Fozzie Bear Fri, May 21, 2010 9:52:50am |
re: #999 reine.de.tout
It is my understanding that the initial approval of this substance had as much to do with the rapid availability of large amounts as it did with any other factor.
The choice of dispersant was a choice of lesser evils. Misguided or not, let’s keep the context of the decision in mind.
| 1003 |
garhighway Fri, May 21, 2010 9:53:43am |
re: #969 reine.de.tout
It’s been my experience that capitalists don’t deliberately blow up their very expensive equipment and trained people.
Oh, for crying out loud. Capitalists do stupid, short-term shit that causes physical or financial harm all the time. Is it deliberate, as in “I intend to push this button to blow up the rig now” kind of deliberate? Of course not. It’s just stupid, as in “I’ll cut corners on the plugging of this well and save a million dollars. Or “I’ll sell this credit default swap that I really don’t understand because then I will make my number for the quarter”. Or “I’ll speed up to make that yellow light”.
But people are people, and they do short-sighted things every day. Every single day.
| 1004 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:54:17am |
re: #996 Aceofwhat?
That is what Iossarian is saying, though. He’s pointing out that capitalism has an incentive to cut corners built into it. It is actually built on the idea of cutting corners— efficiency being promoted— and the incentive to do so is built into the very framework of capitalism without regard for human life or suffering. Like I said, this is why we always need to ameliorate capitalism with our societal values. It can be easily demonstrated that unrestrained capitalism leads to things like the Lowell Mills, sweatshops, and the murder of labor organizers.
| 1005 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:54:23am |
re: #991 iossarian
Of course they do. The question is, why? My point is that organizations cut corners because it is in their interest to do so - they are motivated by maximizing profit, aka the capitalist motive. Hence, it is relevant to point out that motive when discussing an organizations actions.
so then your point would apply to every single organization with a motive to cut a corner…which is nearly every single organization.
that would be, as opposed to a person or group which intentionally pursues a destructive action as a result of direct instruction from their organization.
the two are miles apart. parsecs, even…
| 1006 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:54:35am |
re: #1001 iossarian
Who cares what their desires were? They took decisions knowing that they were increasing the risk of disaster. When you consider that they have however many drilling operations, this means that they effectively knew that the number of such disasters would increase.
I personally do not care whether the man who comes to kill me does so for money or religion.
BP did not “come to kill” anyone.
It was the result of their very bad decisions, no doubt about it.
But not their intent.
If you think there is no difference between those who kill deliberately and with malice and for the purpose of killing and no other purpose, and those who kill as a result of gross negligence, well - I hope you never accidentally hit and kill someone with your car.
| 1007 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:55:22am |
re: #1000 Fozzie Bear
And that is exactly why strong regulations are needed.
i agree…we should have been dissecting something less smelly than a shark.
honestly…the humanity…
| 1008 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:55:26am |
re: #1002 Fozzie Bear
It is my understanding that the initial approval of this substance had as much to do with the rapid availability of large amounts as it did with any other factor.
The choice of dispersant was a choice of lesser evils. Misguided or not, let’s keep the context of the decision in mind.
Well, Foz - I live in Louisiana, and honestly — I prefer that they EPA not be using the Gulf of Mexico as their experiment to see whether this stuff is safe or not. Just sayin’.
| 1009 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 9:56:04am |
| 1010 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:56:07am |
re: #994 Walter L. Newton
You’re partisan is showing… and it’s boring.
Look, the Democrats are not perfect, but they’re a whole lot better than the Republicans.
Overall, voting Democrat will help to increase regulation of business and prevent organizations like BP from behaving in the way they currently do. The fact that they screwed up this specific situation does not change that.
| 1011 |
Feline Fearless Leader Fri, May 21, 2010 9:56:10am |
re: #677 darthstar
I just wish he’d go out and bag one of those deer in the back yard. Now THAT would be a gift I could appreciate. Besides…they’re similar in color to the rats, so it shouldn’t be much of a stretch for him.
If your cat is named “Greebo” then you might get your wish. Then again, since you haven’t been frying up the previous cooking requests you just might not get the cooperation you hope for…
| 1012 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:56:14am |
re: #1006 reine.de.tout
BP decided to speed with their lights off on a dark road, though.
| 1013 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:57:16am |
re: #1003 garhighway
Oh, for crying out loud. Capitalists do stupid, short-term shit that causes physical or financial harm all the time. Is it deliberate, as in “I intend to push this button to blow up the rig now” kind of deliberate? Of course not. It’s just stupid, as in “I’ll cut corners on the plugging of this well and save a million dollars. Or “I’ll sell this credit default swap that I really don’t understand because then I will make my number for the quarter”. Or “I’ll speed up to make that yellow light”.
But people are people, and they do short-sighted things every day. Every single day.
Sure they do.
I’ve not said otherwise. I’ve been as hard on BP in these threads as anyone. That could have been my husband out there on that rig. I’m not at all happy with BP or the way this happened or the way they’ve handled it since.
iossarian was saying that BP’s motives were as mean-spirited and evil as those who set out to kill for the purpose of killing.
I disagree with him.
| 1014 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 9:57:56am |
| 1015 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 9:57:56am |
re: #1009 Aceofwhat?
I’m glad. It’s why I find it silly when people assume that as an atheist I distrust anyone who’s religious. There’s a lot of religious people like that, for whom it’s all about love and self-improvement. And that’s beautiful, man.
But you can get to the same place with just cranes— and of course, I’d say that you did get there with just cranes. ;)
| 1016 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 9:58:12am |
re: #1012 Obdicut
BP decided to speed with their lights off on a dark road, though.
Yes, indeed.
I’ve never indicated otherwise, have I?
| 1017 |
cliffster Fri, May 21, 2010 9:59:32am |
re: #1010 iossarian
Look, the Democrats are not perfect, but they’re a whole lot better than the Republicans.
Overall, voting Democrat will help to increase regulation of business and prevent organizations like BP from behaving in the way they currently do. The fact that they screwed up this specific situation does not change that.
voting democrat certainly was good if you are an insurance executive.
| 1018 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 10:00:40am |
re: #1013 reine.de.tout
Sure they do.
I’ve not said otherwise. I’ve been as hard on BP in these threads as anyone. That could have been my husband out there on that rig. I’m not at all happy with BP or the way this happened or the way they’ve handled it since.iossarian was saying that BP’s motives were as mean-spirited and evil as those who set out to kill for the purpose of killing.
I disagree with him.
I am saying that BP’s motives are to make money, even when they know that doing so will lead to deaths. This is the unavoidable implication of systematically taking risks across a large organization.
Whether that is mean-spirited or not is not a debate I’m particularly interested in.
| 1019 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 10:01:16am |
re: #924 Cato the Elder
Oh I see. You need a scape goat. In that case, carry on.
| 1020 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 10:01:24am |
re: #1001 iossarian
I personally do not care whether the man who comes to kill me does so for money or religion.
oops - see, right there, you just made an issue of the ‘desire’. the man is coming to kill you. his desire is to kill you.
BP didn’t want to kill you. they just fucked up.
| 1021 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 10:01:48am |
re: #1016 reine.de.tout
No. I’m just pointing out that I think you and Iossarian are closer than it appears. When someone decides to speed with your lights off, they don’t mean to cause an accident, but I’ll still blame the hell out of them for what happens and consider them responsible for the deaths. And when their motivation is to save money, I have no problem pointing out that this is a case where unrestrained capitalism lead to death.
| 1022 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 10:02:12am |
re: #1018 iossarian
I am saying that BP’s motives are to make money, even when they know that doing so will lead to deaths. This is the unavoidable implication of systematically taking risks across a large organization.
Whether that is mean-spirited or not is not a debate I’m particularly interested in.
okey-dokey.
When you compared BP to murderous Islamists, it looked to me like that was an argument you were interested in.
| 1023 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 10:02:27am |
re: #1004 Obdicut
That is what Iossarian is saying, though. He’s pointing out that capitalism has an incentive to cut corners built into it. It is actually built on the idea of cutting corners— efficiency being promoted— and the incentive to do so is built into the very framework of capitalism without regard for human life or suffering. Like I said, this is why we always need to ameliorate capitalism with our societal values. It can be easily demonstrated that unrestrained capitalism leads to things like the Lowell Mills, sweatshops, and the murder of labor organizers.
nothing to disagree with there. that’s still quite different than saying it’s like a dude who wants to kill me because his god and his church leaders told him to.
| 1024 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 10:03:19am |
re: #1020 Aceofwhat?
oops - see, right there, you just made an issue of the ‘desire’. the man is coming to kill you. his desire is to kill you.
BP didn’t want to kill you. they just fucked up.
BP increased the risk of explosion on their rig for the sake of making more money. So, how about: BP wanted to increase the risk of death for its rig operatives?
| 1025 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 10:04:14am |
re: #1019 Boogberg
Oh I see. You need a scape goat. In that case, carry on.
The word you’re groping for is “scapegoat”. One word, not two.
And no. Bugger every single one of the big banks and trading houses until blood comes out of their ears.
| 1026 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 10:05:06am |
re: #1022 reine.de.tout
okey-dokey.
When you compared BP to murderous Islamists, it looked to me like that was an argument you were interested in.
No, my point is that, for me, it’s not really important whether people are motivated by religion or by profit. What’s important is what they do, the actions they take. Both BP and religious extremists take actions that lead to death.
| 1027 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 10:05:17am |
re: #1021 Obdicut
No. I’m just pointing out that I think you and Iossarian are closer than it appears. When someone decides to speed with your lights off, they don’t mean to cause an accident, but I’ll still blame the hell out of them for what happens and consider them responsible for the deaths. And when their motivation is to save money, I have no problem pointing out that this is a case where unrestrained capitalism lead to death.
Obdi - I agree.
BP should be held fully responsible and accountable, to the people whose livelihoods are in danger and to the families of those killed, and those survivors who are so devasted that they will be unable to work in the field again (one is someone my husband knows). One of them could have been my husband. I have no love for BP or for the decisions they made, which are ones that they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER than to make.
I thought (and maybe I read things wrong) that iossarian was equating BP’s motives with those of violent religious extremists who kill for the purpose of killing.
My only point was that there is no comparison, really.
| 1028 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 21, 2010 10:05:37am |
re: #1023 Aceofwhat?
nothing to disagree with there. that’s still quite different than saying it’s like a dude who wants to kill me because his god and his church leaders told him to.
exactly.
| 1029 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 10:05:57am |
re: #1015 Obdicut
I’m glad. It’s why I find it silly when people assume that as an atheist I distrust anyone who’s religious. There’s a lot of religious people like that, for whom it’s all about love and self-improvement. And that’s beautiful, man.
But you can get to the same place with just cranes— and of course, I’d say that you did get there with just cranes. ;)
heh. actually, i think it takes at least one prominent skyhook to get where i am. but it’s not the kind i wish to hide…
| 1030 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 10:06:46am |
re: #901 iossarian
I already stated my opinion that it is perfectly possible to be both “radical” and a Muslim, and not to be a terrorist (indeed I know and have worked with such people). Hence the term is inaccurate if used to mean “Muslim terrorists”.
So you know and work with Radical Muslims? Well then, please tell me your anecdotal experience on the following:
1. Do your radical Muslim (female) acquaintances wear Burkhas or Niqabs?
2. Do they hate Israel and wish for its destruction?
3. Do they hate the USA?
4. Do they revere Osama Bin Laden?
5. Do they believe that women are inferior?
If the answer to the above is no, then we are not talking about the same people, and I would like to know on what basis you have identified them as radical Muslims.
| 1031 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, May 21, 2010 10:06:58am |
re: #1023 Aceofwhat?
nothing to disagree with there. that’s still quite different than saying it’s like a dude who wants to kill me because his god and his church leaders told him to.
I agree it’s different. I still think that they’re similar. They’re both doctrines that are hostile to our society and need to be restrained. And frankly, I think there’s a far greater long-term threat to our society from unrestrained capitalists like the CEO of the Massey mine, the BP people making this decision, the tobacco industry, etc. than there is from violent— excuse me, radical— Islam.
This spill is going to cost far more lives than have already been lost, in terms of how much money is lost from the disaster. This is the Pratchett-Moist calculation. If you don’t get that last bit, it’s from a book where a petty thief and con-man is informed by a Golem that he’s killed 2.7 people through his thefts and crimes, that he’s never killed, but he’s hastened death and made people unable to buy what they need to be healthy and survive.
| 1032 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 10:07:44am |
re: #1024 iossarian
BP increased the risk of explosion on their rig for the sake of making more money. So, how about: BP wanted to increase the risk of death for its rig operatives?
nope. i’m pretty sure that there are exactly zero people who thought that dead people would be less expensive. they screwed up. this isn’t exactly saving them money, ya know…
| 1033 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, May 21, 2010 10:12:25am |
re: #1031 Obdicut
I agree it’s different. I still think that they’re similar. They’re both doctrines that are hostile to our society and need to be restrained. And frankly, I think there’s a far greater long-term threat to our society from unrestrained capitalists like the CEO of the Massey mine, the BP people making this decision, the tobacco industry, etc. than there is from violent— excuse me, radical— Islam.
This spill is going to cost far more lives than have already been lost, in terms of how much money is lost from the disaster. This is the Pratchett-Moist calculation. If you don’t get that last bit, it’s from a book where a petty thief and con-man is informed by a Golem that he’s killed 2.7 people through his thefts and crimes, that he’s never killed, but he’s hastened death and made people unable to buy what they need to be healthy and survive.
good stuff.
OTOH, as you righly point out, there are entire nations filled to the brim with hate related to their religion. if we trip up in Iran, there could be problems. and how much terror has SArabia exported?
I agree that regulations are necessary, and the only quibble is where to draw the line, as opposed to whether there ought to be a line. No anarchocapitalist here.
But if i kill you because i cut a corner (say, DUI), i get thrown in the hole for manslaughter. If i kill you because i plotted to kill you because my religion told me to, i get Murder 1.
Iossarian’s analogy falls flat. these are apples and oranges, and attempting to make the apple an orange doesn’t mean we can’t call the orange an orange.
on that twisted note, i’m off to lunch-
| 1034 |
iossarian Fri, May 21, 2010 10:13:17am |
re: #1032 Aceofwhat?
nope. i’m pretty sure that there are exactly zero people who thought that dead people would be less expensive. they screwed up. this isn’t exactly saving them money, ya know…
BP factors the cost of risk into their profit estimates. If you make more money by avoiding a safety check than the cost of the risk associated with that action, then that’s what you do.
So yes, the risk of dead people is less expensive than the cost of the safety check.
| 1035 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 10:14:19am |
re: #1025 Cato the Elder
Is it only the “big” banks that deserve a fucking? Plenty of regional and community banks engaged in risky stuff like lending to unqualified borrowers.
| 1036 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 21, 2010 10:16:09am |
re: #1035 Boogberg
Is it only the “big” banks that deserve a fucking? Plenty of regional and community banks engaged in risky stuff like lending to unqualified borrowers.
They all deserve a regulatory screw.
| 1037 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 21, 2010 10:22:45am |
re: #1030 Spare O’Lake
So you know and work with Radical Muslims? Well then, please tell me your anecdotal experience on the following:
1. Do your radical Muslim (female) acquaintances wear Burkhas or Niqabs?
2. Do they hate Israel and wish for its destruction?
3. Do they hate the USA?
4. Do they revere Osama Bin Laden?
5. Do they believe that women are inferior?
If the answer to the above is no, then we are not talking about the same people, and I would like to know on what basis you have identified them as radical Muslims.
Thought so.
| 1038 |
Boogberg Fri, May 21, 2010 10:24:53am |
re: #1036 Cato the Elder
Lol! :D
Well I don’t know if I’d call it a screw, but some regulation is on its way. The market (swindlers and thieves) seem to be acting favorably. :D
| 1039 |
Tigger2005 Fri, May 21, 2010 11:06:10am |
re: #840 Obdicut
That’s a very good point. Christianity co-opted (or was co-opted by) a government during a long struggle, rather than being a force that overthrew the government. I can’t draw a direct line between that and things these days, but it’s a great point and definitely has bearing.
I think it definitely has direct bearing. Christianity and apocalyptic Judaism both preached the “Day of the Lord” when the Messiah would come, throw down earthly empires, and raise up the faithful, weak, and downtrodden (for the Jews, that was Israel, while for Christians, it was the body of believers). When these things didn’t happen within anyone’s lifetime, both Christianity and Judaism adapted to existing within proto-modern Greco-Roman civilization.
Islam, on the other hand, arose among nomadic tribesmen, not city dwellers. It was a very different dynamic, and I think the echoes of it are quite evident today.
| 1040 |
yoshicastmaster Fri, May 21, 2010 12:50:18pm |
re: #997 avanti
ok that’s interesting. i wish she had played that clip because he didnt say that on her show so I was confused.
| 1041 |
yoshicastmaster Fri, May 21, 2010 1:05:01pm |
re: #964 Obdicut
that wasnt a hinge to the interview or this follow-up. however it was a hinge to the gotcha moment of “rand said X but really Y and here’s a list of republicans” in the follow-up.
I am focussing on this because I am trying to decide how much to trust Maddow’s representations of the news.
If I believe that this is a deliberate misrepresentation then I would be concerned about Maddow’s honesty and agenda. If I believe that this is just sloppy work, then I would be concerned about her thoroughness in the future.
avanti has vouched for Maddow’s representation. Of course, as you might guess, since I don’t give Maddow a free pass, I am not going to blindly follow avanti either. I will just look further for it myself online. (Although this is somewhat reassuring since I do like Maddow.)
I try to approach all media, not just Maddow, with a critical mind. And I will not be blindly trusting. I recommend that everyone remain critical of the media and the agendas of those in the media, even (especially?) when the media seems to agree with you.
| 1042 |
yoshicastmaster Fri, May 21, 2010 1:13:22pm |
re: #970 webevintage
Why on earth would my comment on lgf reflect all I got out the interview?
I didn’t realize I had to summarize my entire understanding of the matter and my position on it before I ask a specific question about the interview.
I suspect that you’re trying either to dismiss my question by suggesting I am not terribly sophisticated or to goad me into expressing some view of unity against Rand or some combination of those. If so, grow up.
If not, what are you trying to say? That my comments need to reflect all I take away from blog post? That I can’t just isolate something I’m curious about? That youre offended that I did not show any unity with the anti-Rand sentiment in the comments? Or because I was critical of Maddow?
What?
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