Anti-Islam Bigots Are Putting US Troops in Danger

US News • Views: 3,837

US Commander in Afghanistan Gen. David Petraeus points out the obvious: Quran-burning could endanger troops, Petraeus warns.

(CNN) — The U.S. commander in Afghanistan on Monday criticized a Florida church’s plan to burn copies of the Quran on September 11, warning that the demonstration “could cause significant problems” for American troops overseas.

“It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort in Afghanistan,” Gen. David Petraeus said in a statement issued Monday.

The Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, plans to mark the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington by burning copies of the Muslim holy book. The church insists the event is “neither an act of love nor of hate” toward individual Muslins, but the event has drawn criticism from Muslims in the United States and overseas.

Sunday, thousands of Indonesians gathered outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta to protest the planned burning, leaders urging the U.S. government to step in and stop the event. …

With about 120,000 U.S. and NATO-led troops still battling al Qaeda and its allies in the Islamic fundamentalist Taliban movement, Petraeus warned that burning Qurans “is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems — not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community.”

And one of his deputies, Lt. Gen. William Caldwell, told CNN’s “The Situation Room” that the event “has already stirred up a lot of discussion and concern” among Afghans.

“We very much feel that this can jeopardize the safety of our men and women that are serving over here in the country,” said Caldwell, the head of NATO efforts to train Afghan security forces.

This Koran-burning idiocy is especially bad, but the ignorant frenzy drummed up by Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, and other anti-Muslim demagogues over the Park51 Islamic community center in lower Manhattan is also helping America’s enemies.

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563 comments
1 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:43:15pm

*sigh*

2 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:44:06pm

I hate these people. I hate it even more because they are in Florida. But good news. They made MyListTM.

3 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:44:19pm

Excellent thread Charles, timely with the San Antonio idiocy. Petraus is absolutely correct.

Upding for both of you.

4 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:44:33pm

bbiab.

5 McSpiff  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:45:08pm

Its not the West Vs. Islam. We need to make this message loud and clear.

6 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:46:36pm

Burning ANY type of book is bad whether it is a holy book or some science fiction. They are not getting my copy of "Mission of Honor."

7 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:48:37pm

re: #6 PhillyPretzel

Burning ANY type of book is bad whether it is a holy book or some science fiction. They are not getting my copy of "Mission of Honor."

I must vehemently disagree.
Battlefield Earth needs to be wiped out of existence.

8 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:49:16pm

re: #2 Cannadian Club Akbar

I hate these people. I hate it even more because they are in Florida. But good news. They made MyListTM.

Christmas Card?
Watch??
Grocery???

9 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:50:20pm

Book burnings, vandalizing houses of worship, and obscene drawings designed to offend a specific religious group, ("Draw Muhammad Day") it's seriously like a prolonged Kristallnacht.

10 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:50:32pm

re: #7 Varek Raith

I understand. You can have your SF and I will have the Honorverse.

11 right_wing2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:51:01pm

I don't agree with the book burning certainly, but at the same time, maybe the Islamic world could grow a thicker skin.

12 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:51:08pm

I don't want a Mosque at Ground Zero... I don't want Qurans burnt... I don't want the government preventing either.

I want people to do the right thing.

I am barking in the dark...

13 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:51:37pm

re: #9 Max D. Reinhardt

Unfortunately.

14 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:52:39pm

Burning books is a childish tantrum covered up in a thin veneer of political rhetoric.

The problem is that it's not logic or reason, it's just base action and careless.

Morans.

15 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:52:55pm

re: #12 brookly red

It's not a Mosque and it's not at "ground zero".

16 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:53:00pm

I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm not. What's next, will Spencer and Geller demand that Muslims be billed for the damage done to their mosques?

17 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:54:18pm

re: #7 Varek Raith

I must vehemently disagree.
Battlefield Earth needs to be wiped out of existence.

Nah, not really. The book was OK.

It's Scientology that needs to be wiped.

18 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:54:50pm

re: #12 brookly red

I don't want a Mosque at Ground Zero... I don't want Qurans burnt... I don't want the government preventing either.

I want people to do the right thing.

I am barking in the dark...

Keep pushing that demonstrably false right-wing talking point...you're doing the bigots and xenophobes (I'm looking at you, Pamz and the Angry Dwarf, among others) proud.

*spit*

19 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:54:53pm

re: #5 McSpiff

Its not the West Vs. Islam. We need to make this message loud and clear.

it's the most extreme elements of Islam Vs Everybody else (including the vast majority of the rest of the followers of the Islamic faith)

20 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:55:20pm

re: #17 b_sharp

Nah, not really. The book was OK.

It's Scientology that needs to be wiped.

/well thanks for making that clear...

21 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:55:51pm

re: #12 brookly red

I don't want a Mosque at Ground Zero... I don't want Qurans burnt... I don't want the government preventing either.

I want people to do the right thing.

I am barking in the dark...

In that case, it's time to open the door and throw you a bone. That, at least, is the right thing.

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:56:48pm

re: #11 right_wing2

I don't agree with the book burning certainly, but at the same time, maybe the Islamic world could grow a thicker skin.

Sure. It would be nice if people wouldn't go violently off over things like the Mohammed cartoons.

However, the idea that people in a war zone with US troops in it won't be badly affected by news like this is a lot to ask, and right now, I'd say that the US Muslim community is getting a load of crap shoved at it that they have every right to be deeply (and nonviolently) pissed off about.

23 Winny Spencer  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:57:34pm

re: #16 Max D. Reinhardt

They will probably label Petraeus a "dhimmi".

24 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:57:52pm

re: #11 right_wing2

I don't agree with the book burning certainly, but at the same time, maybe the Islamic world could grow a thicker skin.

Please. Religious fanatics always have a hair-trigger sensitivity about their religion. Remember when an Evangelical group printed up translated Qurans, snuck them into the Army so that they could be distributed to Afghans? Imagine if they burned those. Imagine how the Gellers and the Gingrichs would have reacted.

25 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:58:07pm

re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. It would be nice if people wouldn't go violently off over things like the Mohammed cartoons.

However, the idea that people in a war zone with US troops in it won't be badly affected by news like this is a lot to ask, and right now, I'd say that the US Muslim community is getting a load of crap shoved at it that they have every right to be deeply (and nonviolently) pissed off about.

This x 1000.

26 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:59:00pm

re: #11 right_wing2

I don't agree with the book burning certainly, but at the same time, maybe the Islamic world could grow a thicker skin.

Maybe, but these book-burning "Christians" and the anti-mosque protesters seem to be acting pretty thin-skinned themselves.

27 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 2:59:34pm

re: #23 Winny Spencer

They will probably label Petraeus a "[Video]dhimmi".

That was fast.

28 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:00:24pm

I was wondering if/when Petraeus would have something to say about that. He is, and has long been, one of the few people who seem to have the slightest idea what they're doing when it comes to actually fighting the root causes of terrorism. As a result, the Code Pink types hated him for failing to trash the Bush administration, and now the usual gang of idiots on the right reject him because he doesn't think breaking down doors and waterboarding everyone is the best way to achieve our goals. Listen to this in-depth BBC interview with him (or don't).

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

29 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:00:39pm

re: #27 Max D. Reinhardt

Yes it was. Where did that come from?

30 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:00:56pm

re: #21 b_sharp

In that case, it's time to open the door and throw you a bone. That, at least, is the right thing.

I am not sure if my definition of bone is the same as yours...

31 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:01:29pm

re: #11 right_wing2

I don't agree with the book burning certainly, but at the same time, maybe the Islamic world could grow a thicker skin.

At the same time maybe this is not time to point out that the Islamic world can get a thicker skin. Of course it could: remind them next time cartoons come out and they burn books or Rage Out.

Today we're talking about The Other Morans.

32 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:01:43pm

re: #11 right_wing2

I don't agree with the book burning certainly, but at the same time, maybe the Islamic world could grow a thicker skin.

Yeah, see, that's usually my line too, except that this whole business of folks giving them actual bigotry to mix in with the usual butthurt is (in addition to being against everything that we (should) stand for in this country) the dumbest thing since Pauly Shore.

33 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:02:04pm

re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist

gmta

34 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:02:56pm

re: #29 PhillyPretzel

From asshole blogger, "This Fucking War."

35 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:03:24pm

re: #34 Max D. Reinhardt

Ahh. Thanks.

36 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:03:28pm

re: #30 brookly red

I am not sure if my definition of bone is the same as yours...

Now you're getting down to the meat of the debate.

37 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:03:29pm

re: #27 Max D. Reinhardt

That was fast.

"General Dhimmi?" That is insane. I'm sure the creator of that inane slur was all up in arms about 'General Betray Us.'

This is insane.

38 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:03:42pm

re: #27 Max D. Reinhardt

That was fast.

That's interesting. The guy who posted that has the same nic as a lizard: Mister Ghost.

39 right_wing2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:04:17pm

re: #24 Max D. Reinhardt

Translated Korans? Or Bibles? I don't know of any Christian groups (not that there probably aren't some out there) that would call for beheading someone who desecrated a Bible. But I'm sure you wouldn't see masses of Christians on the streets like there were in London with Christian versions of the signs reading 'Slaughter those who insult Islam'.

No, the vast majority of Muslims are just trying to live their lives like the rest of us are. The problem is, I'd bet the majority of religious violence comes from a minority of the Muslim population, whatever minority percent that might be.

40 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:04:18pm

re: #32 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, see, that's usually my line too, except that this whole business of folks giving them actual bigotry to mix in with the usual butthurt is (in addition to being against everything that we (should) stand for in this country) the dumbest thing since Pauly Shore.

Ouch!

That hadta hurt.

41 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:04:20pm

re: #38 wrenchwench

That's interesting. The guy who posted that has the same nic as a lizard: Mister Ghost.

Ruh-roh!

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:04:32pm

re: #27 Max D. Reinhardt

That was fast.

'General Dhimmi'.

I wonder, if I browse back in that blog, if I will find some angry upset over him being called 'Betrayus' by MoveOn.

43 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:05:41pm

re: #39 right_wing2

No, the vast majority of Muslims are just trying to live their lives like the rest of us are. The problem is, I'd bet the majority of religious violence comes from a minority of the Muslim population, whatever minority percent that might be.

in this country or across the world? because we're talking about here. just trying to help...

44 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:07:41pm

I agree, it probably does elevate the risks for our service personnel.
Then again, even a rumor of a Koran touching a toilet halfway around the world, as well as some cartoons, tends to send many in the Islamic world into frenzy.
Not to mention that they probably keep some Chinese manufacturers of US flags in the black with all the US flags they burn.

And no, I don't agree with this little book burning stunt.

45 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:07:53pm

re: #43 Aceofwhat?

in this country or across the world? because we're talking about here. just trying to help...

is that a Ft. Hood reference or am I reading in too much?

46 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:07:56pm

What is calling Petraeus "General Dhimmi" a reference to? I don't get it.

47 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:08:44pm

re: #44 captdiggs

I agree, it probably does elevate the risks for our service personnel.
Then again, even a rumor of a Koran touching a toilet halfway around the world, as well as some cartoons, tends to send many in the Islamic world into frenzy.
Not to mention that they probably keep some Chinese manufacturers of US flags in the black with all the US flags they burn.

And no, I don't agree with this little book burning stunt.

That's quite a leap you've constructed there.

48 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:08:49pm

re: #39 right_wing2

You're moving goal posts with the whole Londonistan rant, but Christians do give death threats for insulting their religion. They've done it to atheist bloggers and vloggers like "TheAmazingAtheist", "Thunderf00t", and Pat Condell who are vehement anti-theists.

49 right_wing2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:09:25pm

re: #43 Aceofwhat?

Worldwide. Although we're starting to see extremism here, with a few of what may be honor killings.

The mosque vandalism is certainly violence. Protests against the center in NY, not so much. Koran burning, not violence, just something that's gonna piss 'em off.

50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:09:26pm

Imagine there's a football team... there is a game tomorrow... there's a bulletin board...

Coaches use things like this all of the time... of course our enemies would use it in the same way...

51 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:10:17pm

re: #45 brookly red

is that a Ft. Hood reference or am I reading in too much?

reading in too much. dude, there's college football on. you're lucky i'm punctuating at this point...

52 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:11:26pm
Thou shalt not kill. Murder. The fifth commandment. But if you think about it...if you think about it, religion has never really had a problem with murder. Not really. No, more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at slavery, the Middle East, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, and the World Trade Center, and you'll see how seriously the religious folks take "Thou Shalt Not Kill." The more devout they are, the more they see murder as negotiable...it's negotiable. It depends, you know? It depends, it depends on who's doing the killing, and who's getting killed.


-Carlin

53 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:11:45pm

re: #51 Aceofwhat?

reading in too much. dude, there's college football on. you're lucky i'm punctuating at this point...

/ ahhh yes, the sacred passing of the pig skin...

54 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:11:54pm

re: #39 right_wing2

Translated Korans? Or Bibles? I don't know of any Christian groups (not that there probably aren't some out there) that would call for beheading someone who desecrated a Bible. But I'm sure you wouldn't see masses of Christians on the streets like there were in London with Christian versions of the signs reading 'Slaughter those who insult Islam'.

No, the vast majority of Muslims are just trying to live their lives like the rest of us are. The problem is, I'd bet the majority of religious violence comes from a minority of the Muslim population, whatever minority percent that might be.

This book burning, is being conducted by a right wing christian extremist on American soil.

55 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:12:02pm

re: #39 right_wing2

Translated Korans? Or Bibles? I don't know of any Christian groups (not that there probably aren't some out there) that would call for beheading someone who desecrated a Bible. But I'm sure you wouldn't see masses of Christians on the streets like there were in London with Christian versions of the signs reading 'Slaughter those who insult Islam'.


If the Dominionists had their way and the US truly became a Christian nation, according to their definition, how much of the Old Testament would become law?


No, the vast majority of Muslims are just trying to live their lives like the rest of us are. The problem is, I'd bet the majority of religious violence comes from a minority of the Muslim population, whatever minority percent that might be.

The majority of religious violence occurs in countries run by radical religious leaders. In Western countries, violence by Muslims is small compared to that by the majority ethnic group.

56 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:12:43pm

re: #49 right_wing2

Worldwide. Although we're starting to see extremism here, with a few of what may be honor killings.

The mosque vandalism is certainly violence. Protests against the center in NY, not so much. Koran burning, not violence, just something that's gonna piss 'em off.

the behavior of some group or other worldwide is not how we ought to go about defining our standards here. come on, dude. i'm a conservative too...should we kick our currency in the teeth because Argentina did worse?

whether someone has 'done worse' isn't a helpful backdrop to the standards that we set for ourselves.

57 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:13:32pm

re: #46 elbruce

What is calling Petraeus "General Dhimmi" a reference to? I don't get it.

Some wingnuts are saying that General Petraeus has become "dhimmified", just because he said that those wacko "Burn the Koran Day" loons may cause his troops problems fighting the Taliban and working with the Afghan locals.

Ironic, because the same people who are saying this now about General Petraeus were apoplectic when Code Pink was going after him with the "General Betrayus" shit. To me, they're two sides of the batshit wacko coin.

58 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:14:21pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

'General Dhimmi'.

I wonder, if I browse back in that blog, if I will find some angry upset over him being called 'Betrayus' by MoveOn.

Both are ridiculous names aren't they?

Ridiculous rants, from ridiculous movements, from two ridiculously different times.

59 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:14:54pm

re: #57 talon_262

Whoops, meant "when MoveOn was going after him"

60 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:15:08pm

come on, Navy. put this one in the end zone.

61 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:15:12pm

re: #49 right_wing2

The mosque vandalism is certainly violence. Protests against the center in NY, not so much. Koran burning, not violence, just something that's gonna piss 'em off.

Nah, the mosque protests and Koran burning are just hate speech.

62 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:15:35pm

go Navy!

63 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:16:15pm

re: #57 talon_262

Some wingnuts are saying that General Petraeus has become "dhimmified", just because he said that those wacko "Burn the Koran Day" loons may cause his troops problems fighting the Taliban and working with the Afghan locals.

Ironic, because the same people who are saying this now about General Petraeus were apoplectic when Code Pink was going after him with the "General Betrayus" shit. To me, they're two sides of the batshit wacko coin.

/yah know the far left hates him... the far right hates him...

Petraeus in 2012? :)

64 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:16:58pm

re: #57 talon_262

To me, they're two sides of the batshit wacko coin.

And the increasing abundance of that coin diminishes its value everyday.

65 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:17:04pm

Here come the crazy comments at Fox News:

Agree with it or not, this is still the land of the free. This is typical Islamic hypocrisy and I see that many have no problem letting foreigners dictating our behavior and policies. Freedom of choice is what our troops represent, not caving into threats from a radical and hypocritical religious group. And for "ryrynak", yours is the most ignorant of all the comments. For "seminarystudent", I hope you are faultless in your daily routine as far as WWJD. Lastly, "chugach", you are a simple placater who has a very narrow historical perspective; Nevil Chamberlain would be proud of you.

-----

Petraeus is where he is because he walk's Obama's line. Let the Koran's be burned and tell our troops to keep their weapons on full auto. The Nation of Islam will only be content when they control the world. Why we keep on insisting that we don't mistrust the muslims but rather just the radicals is BS. Our conflict with them will never cease... just like the conflicts in the middle east never cease.

66 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:17:23pm

re: #62 Aceofwhat?

go Navy!

I'd rather go naked. Navy doesn't go with my skin colour.

67 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:17:30pm

re: #63 brookly red

Petraeus in 2012?

Count me in with both feet.

68 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:17:43pm

re: #64 Max D. Reinhardt

And the increasing abundance of that coin diminishes its value everyday.

although i think it was always gold-painted lead anyway/

69 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:17:52pm

re: #65 Gus 802

Here come the crazy comments at Fox News:

Shit!
Ay,ay,ay!

70 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:18:32pm

re: #57 talon_262

Some wingnuts are saying that General Petraeus has become "dhimmified", just because he said that those wacko "Burn the Koran Day" loons may cause his troops problems fighting the Taliban and working with the Afghan locals.

Ironic, because the same people who are saying this now about General Petraeus were apoplectic when Code Pink was going after him with the "General Betrayus" shit. To me, they're two sides of the batshit wacko coin.

Hmm...

A dhimmi (Arabic: ذمي‎ [ˈðɪmːiː]), (collectively أهل الذمة ahl al-dhimmah, "the people of the dhimma or people of the contract") is a non-Muslim subject of a state governed in accordance with sharia law. The dhimma is a theoretical contract based on a widely held Islamic doctrine granting special status to Jewish, Christian, and other non-Muslim subjects. Dhimma provides rights of residence in return for taxes. Dhimmi have fewer legal and social rights than Muslims, but more rights than other non-Muslims. They are excluded from the specifically Muslim duties, and otherwise equal under the laws of property, contract and obligation.


Yeah, go tell the average guy in Afghanistan that the U.S. military currently in control of their nation are dhimmah... You'll get this look back: O_o

71 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:18:43pm

re: #9 Max D. Reinhardt

Book burnings, vandalizing houses of worship, and obscene drawings designed to offend a specific religious group, ("Draw Muhammad Day") it's seriously like a prolonged Kristallnacht.

Save that "Draw Muhammad Day" was legal. Comparing the recent illegal activities targeting Muslims to that of Kristallnacht seems improper too.

72 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:19:02pm

re: #69 Varek Raith

Shit!
Ay,ay,ay!

Another one:

With ALL due respect to you General...quit defending the feelings of the enemy. You are NOT there to tell Americans to "be nice so we don't upset the muslims" You are employed..yes employed by the citizens of the US, to WIN THE WAR. Yes you act under the direction of the Commander in Chief but you are not expected to sound like him and act like him and turn into him. One of him is plenty to go around and give everyone the craps every time we see him on TV. You are now cowering to the politicians who called you "General BETRAYUS" just 2 years ago. Remember? Enough of having our sons and daughters killed cause Generals and politicians want to be "politically correct" WIN THE WAR and bring the troops home. Fight like a warrior or bail out and let someone else finish the job (if the POTUS will let you)

73 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:19:13pm

re: #62 Aceofwhat?

go Navy!

Did Ralph Friedgen just eat the pigskin!?!?!
//

74 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:19:18pm

re: #66 b_sharp

I'd rather go naked. Navy doesn't go with my skin colour.

i am what you might call "an autumn", so i like navy.

i also like the Midshipmen...those guys fight as hard no matter what field they're on.

75 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:19:35pm

re: #66 b_sharp

I'd rather go naked. Navy doesn't go with my skin colour.

hold you breath longer

76 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:20:07pm

This is ridiculous.

Alright, to anyone who has no problems with the Qur'an burning.
What would your reaction be if a group of Muslims decided to burn the Bible?

77 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:20:26pm

re: #74 Aceofwhat?

i am what you might call "an autumn", so i like navy.

i also like the Midshipmen...those guys fight as hard no matter what field ocrean they're on.

:)

78 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:20:26pm

re: #71 eclectic infidel

Save that "Draw Muhammad Day" was legal. Comparing the recent illegal activities targeting Muslims to that of Kristallnacht seems improper too.

The actions on Kristallnacht were completely legal and government sanctioned. The Jews got the bill for the damage done.

79 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:20:51pm

re: #78 Max D. Reinhardt

Legal by German law at the time.

80 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:20:56pm

re: #57 talon_262

Some wingnuts are saying that General Petraeus has become "dhimmified", just because he said that those wacko "Burn the Koran Day" loons may cause his troops problems fighting the Taliban and working with the Afghan locals.

I've been resistant to compare US citizens to Taliban but this thinking demonstrated here is very close to a valid comparison. Totally simplistic thinking, tribal, fear based. I thought we were moving past that but it seems human nature is too strong for it to regress.

81 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:20:59pm

re: #74 Aceofwhat?

re: #77 sattv4u2

:)

Would it have been better if I actually typed OCEAN !?!?!

82 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:21:02pm

Looks like the Petraeus honeymoon is over with the wingnuts. I knew that was coming. There's something about the general that led me to believe this. That he's far to reasonable of a man to fit in with the far-right preconceptions of military leaders which is usually fit for comic books.

83 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:21:44pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

Did Ralph Friedgen just eat the pigskin!?!?!
//

seriously. i don't get coaches who are that far gone. guys who have million-dollar exercise rooms two minutes from their desk ought to be able to see their own frank and beans, you know?

84 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:21:58pm

Yet another:

Petraeus needs to stay out of politics, stop with the social commentary, and just do his job. I didn't fight in Iraq myself to come home and be told what political statements I can or can't make. It doesn't do us any good to win the military fight over there and lose the Bill of Rights here.

Cletus.

85 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:22:18pm

The Religious Right ladies and gentlemen support our Troops

86 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:22:32pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

This is ridiculous.

Alright, to anyone who has no problems with the Qur'an burning.
What would your reaction be if a group of Muslims decided to burn the Bible?

Wet panties, and slobbery chin.

87 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:22:42pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

This is ridiculous.

Alright, to anyone who has no problems with the Qur'an burning.
What would your reaction be if a group of Muslims decided to burn the Bible?

I do NOT want these dolts burning A Koran ,, let alone a LOT of them
That stated, I wouldn't bat an eyelash if someone burned their own copy of a bible (Roman Catholic here , btw)

88 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:22:43pm

The idea that the threat of killings by muslims becomes elevated because of this little repugnant stunt does not really say much in the way the behavior of those willing to kill over a demonstration, no matter what that demonstration is.
The Saudis burn bibles and all non muslim religious items they confiscate, yet no one even thinks to say that they risk elevating the threat of Saudis citizens being killed for those actions.

89 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:22:55pm

re: #6 PhillyPretzel

Burning ANY type of book is bad whether it is a holy book or some science fiction. They are not getting my copy of "Mission of Honor."

What if its Battlefield Earth?

90 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:23:36pm

re: #88 captdiggs

The idea that the threat of killings by muslims becomes elevated because of this little repugnant stunt does not really say much in the way the behavior of those willing to kill over a demonstration, no matter what that demonstration is.
The Saudis burn bibles and all non muslim religious items they confiscate, yet no one even thinks to say that they risk elevating the threat of Saudis citizens being killed for those actions.

You just don't get it do you.

91 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:23:37pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

This is ridiculous.

Alright, to anyone who has no problems with the Qur'an burning.
What would your reaction be if a group of Muslims decided to burn the Bible?

i'd be fine with it. but that's where the golden rule fails us. just because i can tolerate something doesn't mean that it's civilized of me to go and subject others to the same...

(mind you, i'm sure you agree...i just don't want to give anyone that opening)

92 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:23:47pm

re: #78 Max D. Reinhardt

The actions on Kristallnacht were completely legal and government sanctioned. The Jews got the bill for the damage done.

Yes, sanctioned by a fascist regime. All I'm saying is that this recent wave of bigotry manifested in vandalism and directed at the American Muslim community, in my opinion, doesn't compare to that of Kristallnact. It is my sincere hope it never gets that far.

93 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:23:48pm

re: #82 Gus 802

Looks like the Petraeus honeymoon is over with the wingnuts.


They'll stab anybody in the back for uttering one thing they disagree with, even something as mild as "hey guy, all the hate speech ain't helping." Even if they've championed that person's career up until that moment.

94 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:23:49pm

re: #11 right_wing2

I don't agree with the book burning certainly, but at the same time, maybe the Islamic world could grow a thicker skin.

Would you say the Jewish world needs to grow a thicker skin if people said they had a problem with burning Torahs?

(Is that how you spell it?)

95 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:25:07pm

re: #9 Max D. Reinhardt

Book burnings, vandalizing houses of worship, and obscene drawings designed to offend a specific religious group, ("Draw Muhammad Day") it's seriously like a prolonged Kristallnacht.

Hardly.
There is still six times as many hate crimes committed against Jews as there are against muslims.
Comparing some scattered hate crimes with a mass state organized pogrom is way off base.

96 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:25:37pm

re: #94 jamesfirecat

Torah yes. That is the spelling.

97 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:25:50pm

re: #91 Aceofwhat?

gmta

and BTW ,,, if you would be so kind to shoot me an e-mail sometime

Football has started and I'd love to go back and forth about it with you at times

98 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:25:57pm

re: #88 captdiggs

The Saudis burn bibles and all non muslim religious items they confiscate, yet no one even thinks to say that they risk elevating the threat of Saudis citizens being killed for those actions.


If the Saudi Military were in control of the U.S. and trying to quell an insurgency led by fundamentalist Christians, it might be an apt comparison. As it is, this just sounds like a call for us to lower ourselves to their level.

99 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:26:05pm

re: #90 Gus 802

You just don't get it do you.

Theo Van Gogh got it.

100 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:26:48pm

re: #88 captdiggs

The Saudis burn bibles and all non muslim religious items they confiscate, yet no one even thinks to say that they risk elevating the threat of Saudis citizens being killed for those actions.

that is because we have a clear moral advantage over the House del Saud, one that we begin to jeopardize when we don't pwn these idiots within our own borders.

101 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:27:30pm

re: #98 elbruce

. As it is, this just sounds like a call for us to lower ourselves to their level.

Actually, it points out the difference.

102 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:27:38pm

re: #99 captdiggs

would it suffice to say we play by different rules?

103 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:28:07pm

re: #82 Gus 802

Looks like the Petraeus honeymoon is over with the wingnuts. I knew that was coming. There's something about the general that led me to believe this. That he's far to reasonable of a man to fit in with the far-right preconceptions of military leaders which is usually fit for comic books.

What the wingnuts conveniently forget is that a career military man and flag officer like General Petraeus, while serving in his command at the pleasure of the President and the Pentagon muckety-mucks, should have the men under his command and their mission as his most important responsibility, not stateside politics. I think he was right to call out the "Burn a Koran Day" assholes out, because it could conceivably make his job in Afghanistan (and those of his troops) much harder.

Nevertheless, those strident right-wing wingnuts who defended him against the MoveOn "General Betrayus" shit are now throwing him under their own demented bus...ironic, ain't it?

104 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:28:21pm

re: #88 captdiggs

It never ceases to amaze me how you'll take an obvious provocation like this, that puts our troops in danger, and use it to attack Muslims.

105 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:28:48pm

re: #91 Aceofwhat?

I wouldn't be fine with people burning the bible.

You know why?

Because I'm an atheist. And that means that I can, without personal interest, objectively, see that such a thing is done to send a message of hate, of intolerance and, if Christians were a small enough minority, of intimidation.

I don't want laws against such things, or anything of the sort, but I do want to let the people who do this cowardly shit know that if they do start actively targeting Muslims in the open, that Americans will stand up for them.

I do feel that some of the elements of Nazi Germany are growing in the US. But I know that something else is here in the US; a history of Civil Rights, of disparate groups standing together against intolerance.

It can happen here. But it won't. Because we'll fight it.

106 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:29:17pm

re: #97 sattv4u2

gmta

and BTW ,,, if you would be so kind to shoot me an e-mail sometime

Football has started and I'd love to go back and forth about it with you at times

anytime. my email is my nic, without the punctuation, at gmail. easy.

it's also fun to set up a page and chat about a game in progress...Stanley and i had fun with the Gators game yesterday.

i'm eagerly anticipating the Boise-VaTech game tonight...salivating, even...

107 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:29:18pm

re: #99 captdiggs

Theo Van Gogh got it.

There this thing called PR in the military when they're engaged in foreign hostilities of this type as exemplified by their presence in Afghanistan. PR as in public relations and how the Afghan people see Americans and how it can become distorted and influenced by the actions of Americans such as those at Dove church, Pam Geller, Robert Spencer, and others.

Think about that for a couple of minutes.

108 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:29:32pm

re: #63 brookly red

/yah know the far left hates him... the far right hates him...

Petraeus in 2012? :)

2016, he's got a war to finish.

109 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:30:14pm

re: #106 Aceofwhat?

anytime. my email is my nic, without the punctuation, at gmail. easy.

it's also fun to set up a page and chat about a game in progress...Stanley and i had fun with the Gators game yesterday.

i'm eagerly anticipating the Boise-VaTech game tonight...salivating, even...

I speculated upthread that the NCAA big wigs will be beside themselves if Boise wins tonight then wins out the rest of their schedule

110 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:30:20pm

Hearts and minds. Repeat. Hearts and minds.

111 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:30:44pm

re: #101 captdiggs

Actually, it points out the difference.

It points out that a difference still exists, and was presented to justify lowering ourselves to some degree. Every time something that consitutes hate speech and religious intolerance happens on our side, and some of us say "that's wrong and we shouldn't do it," somebody else chimes in "well at least we don't do X!" As if the fact that somewhere in the world there's somebody who's worse than you are makes it OK to be awful, just as long as you're not the world champion in awfulness. I'd rather strive to be the best rather than just the not-worst.

112 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:30:45pm

re: #108 jamesfirecat

2016, he's got a war to finish.

as CinC he could do both...

113 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:30:58pm

re: #105 Obdicut

I wouldn't be fine with people burning the bible.

You know why?

Because I'm an atheist. And that means that I can, without personal interest, objectively, see that such a thing is done to send a message of hate, of intolerance and, if Christians were a small enough minority, of intimidation.

I don't want laws against such things, or anything of the sort, but I do want to let the people who do this cowardly shit know that if they do start actively targeting Muslims in the open, that Americans will stand up for them.

I do feel that some of the elements of Nazi Germany are growing in the US. But I know that something else is here in the US; a history of Civil Rights, of disparate groups standing together against intolerance.

It can happen here. But it won't. Because we'll fight it.

QFT

114 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:31:28pm

re: #110 Gus 802

Hearts and minds. Repeat. Hearts and minds.

LBJ took the IRT...

115 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:31:40pm

re: #107 Gus 802

There this thing called PR in the military when they're engaged in foreign hostilities of this type as exemplified by their presence in Afghanistan. PR as in public relations and how the Afghan people see Americans and how it can become distorted and influenced by the actions of Americans such as those at Dove church, Pam Geller, Robert Spencer, and others.

Think about that for a couple of minutes.

He's too busy hating Muslims to see your point, I'm afraid.

116 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:31:40pm

re: #105 Obdicut

I wouldn't be fine with people burning the bible.

You know why?

Because I'm an atheist. And that means that I can, without personal interest, objectively, see that such a thing is done to send a message of hate, of intolerance and, if Christians were a small enough minority, of intimidation.

I don't want laws against such things, or anything of the sort, but I do want to let the people who do this cowardly shit know that if they do start actively targeting Muslims in the open, that Americans will stand up for them.

I do feel that some of the elements of Nazi Germany are growing in the US. But I know that something else is here in the US; a history of Civil Rights, of disparate groups standing together against intolerance.

It can happen here. But it won't. Because we'll fight it.

And i appreciate that - i really do. Because one minute it's "ha, ha, we're burning paper" and the next minute it's "ha ha we're burning actual structures".

You are correct, of course. My point was that my not being offended by action X does not, therefore, make it civilized to perform action X. Sometimes the golden rule lets us down.

117 KDS1  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:32:10pm

I think burning or vandalization of flags/books/place of worship of any kind is wrong. There is no way to justify it.

However, the fact that every action done by the any part of the western world must consider the "retaliation" of the muslim world, is absurd.

Do you know that the one single episode of southpark showing Muhammad (super best friends) is banned on the comedy central site?

118 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:32:21pm

re: #104 Max D. Reinhardt

It never ceases to amaze me how you'll take an obvious provocation like this, that puts our troops in danger, and use it to attack Muslims.

I am pointing out that criticism of Islam has gotten some of those critics killed and numerous others in hiding or in need of security.
You act as though it is perfectly reasonable for someone to kill another who has nothing to do with the objectionable act, just because they may be of the same nationality of those committing the act.

119 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:32:54pm

re: #103 talon_262

What the wingnuts conveniently forget is that a career military man and flag officer like General Petraeus, while serving in his command at the pleasure of the President and the Pentagon muckety-mucks, should have the men under his command and their mission as his most important responsibility, not stateside politics. I think he was right to call out the "Burn a Koran Day" assholes out, because it could conceivably make his job in Afghanistan (and those of his troops) much harder.

Nevertheless, those strident right-wing wingnuts who defended him against the MoveOn "General Betrayus" shit are now throwing him under their own demented bus...ironic, ain't it?

Their first step they will take will be to dehumanize or "dethrone" Petraeus by calling him out as "Obama's general." That's already apparent in some of the Fox News comments.

120 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:32:59pm

re: #101 captdiggs

Do you just not get that we are at war and actions at home can jeopardize our efforts overseas?

Loose lips sink ships comes to mind, and your lips are definitely loose.

121 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:33:24pm

re: #88 captdiggs

The idea that the threat of killings by muslims becomes elevated because of this little repugnant stunt does not really say much in the way the behavior of those willing to kill over a demonstration, no matter what that demonstration is.
The Saudis burn bibles and all non muslim religious items they confiscate, yet no one even thinks to say that they risk elevating the threat of Saudis citizens being killed for those actions.

Didn't Newt Gingrich recently argue something along these lines?

122 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:33:30pm

re: #63 brookly red

/yah know the far left hates him... the far right hates him...

Petraeus in 2012? :)

He seems like somebody who knows his job. That doesn't necessarily mean he'd be good at civil governance... unless things deteriorate to the point where a counterinsurgency expert would make for the best President by then. Which seems possible.

123 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:33:36pm

re: #117 KDS1

I think burning or vandalization of flags/books/place of worship of any kind is wrong. There is no way to justify it.

However, the fact that every action done by the any part of the western world must consider the "retaliation" of the muslim world, is absurd.

Do you know that the one single episode of southpark showing Muhammad (super best friends) is banned on the comedy central site?

car bombs will do that...

124 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:34:10pm

re: #109 sattv4u2

I speculated upthread that the NCAA big wigs will be beside themselves if Boise wins tonight then wins out the rest of their schedule

Nah, it's a win-win (yes i like to hate on the non-AQ conferences;)

Boise loses: told you so.

Boise wins and goes undefeated: a NC matchup against Florida, Bama, or Ohio State. Boise gets hit like a 1980's Tyson opponent. told you so.

either way, it's going to end up in a 'told you so' moment...and then we won't have to hear from the smurfs for at least another decade!

125 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:34:15pm

re: #116 Aceofwhat?

As someone who really loves being woken up before dawn, everyone should be glad I don't follow the Golden Rule.

126 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:34:54pm

re: #112 brookly red

as CinC he could do both...

Please remember what Sun Tzu said regarding Heads of State versus Generals. It is a different set of rules. From Sun Tzu's Art of War: There are three ways in which a sovereign can bring misfortune upon his army: By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army. By attempting to govern an army in the same way he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions that obtain in an army. This causes restlessness in the soldiers' minds. Humanity and justice are the principles on which to govern a state, but not an army; opportunism and flexibility. on the other hand, are military rather than civic virtues.

127 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:35:06pm

re: #118

captdiggs  
captdiggs

You act as though it is perfectly reasonable for someone to kill another who has nothing to do with the objectionable act, just because they may be of the same nationality of those committing the act.

When the fuck did I say anything like that?

128 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:35:17pm

re: #117 KDS1


However, the fact that every action done by the any part of the western world must consider the "retaliation" of the muslim world, is absurd.

How is that a fact?

129 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:35:24pm

re: #117 KDS1

I think burning or vandalization of flags/books/place of worship of any kind is wrong. There is no way to justify it.

However, the fact that every action done by the any part of the western world must consider the "retaliation" of the muslim world, is absurd.

Do you know that the one single episode of southpark showing Muhammad (super best friends) is banned on the comedy central site?

downdinged for not reading my earlier post and saving your breath.

130 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:35:31pm

re: #118 captdiggs

I am pointing out that criticism of Islam has gotten some of those critics killed and numerous others in hiding or in need of security.
You act as though it is perfectly reasonable for someone to kill another who has nothing to do with the objectionable act, just because they may be of the same nationality of those committing the act.

That an interesting interpretation. You must be reading something I'm not reading.

Talk about putting words into people's mouths.

131 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:35:49pm

re: #105 Obdicut

Atheist prayers for you!

132 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:35:54pm

re: #122 elbruce

He seems like somebody who knows his job. That doesn't necessarily mean he'd be good at civil governance... unless things deteriorate to the point where a counterinsurgency expert would make for the best President by then. Which seems possible.

Hmmm, you make a good point. Perhaps a leader that considered the wants of the locals would be refreshing ;)

133 KDS1  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:36:25pm

re: #123 brookly red

Yeah, that's the definition of "surrendering to terror"...

134 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:36:29pm

re: #107 Gus 802

That does not excuse murderous behavior because someone is offended.
I fully understand what Petraeus is saying, and I agree that the risk increases with the book burning.

135 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:37:19pm

re: #124 Aceofwhat?

Nah, it's a win-win (yes i like to hate on the non-AQ conferences;)

Boise loses: told you so.

Boise wins and goes undefeated: a NC matchup against Florida, Bama, or Ohio State. Boise gets hit like a 1980's Tyson opponent. told you so.

either way, it's going to end up in a 'told you so' moment...and then we won't have to hear from the smurfs for at least another decade!

Could be,,, but I think the NCAA would always prefer two "traditional" powerhouses playing for the National Title

btw ,, you (should) have mail (or soon)

136 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:37:41pm

re: #27 Max D. Reinhardt

Jebus! If a few level-headed words from Gen. Petraeus can't talk these fuck-wits down, I doubt anything could.

Jesus Christ Himself could part the clouds and tell this group to knock it off, and they'd likely label Him a traitor.

137 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:38:02pm

re: #117 KDS1

However, the fact that every action done by the any part of the western world must consider the "retaliation" of the muslim world, is absurd.

I think it's absurd that you cannot consider it, likely even fathom it.

138 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:38:10pm

re: #112 brookly red

as CinC he could do both...

I'd suggest you think about reading Why The Allies Won sometime.

Hitler tried to be both at the same time, being both the tactical commander in the field and the strategic person who called the tune that the entire army/nation would dance to and the German Military was worse of for it.

(Not comparing the General to Hitler obviously, I'm just saying even with the better communications gear we have today, it's still probably over reaching to think the same man can lead a country on one side of the globe, and fight a war on the other....)

139 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:38:17pm

re: #108 jamesfirecat

2016, he's got a war to finish.

Since all the loons hate him, is it OK to have the Magical Balance Fairy make an appearance?

140 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:38:29pm

re: #134 captdiggs

That does not excuse murderous behavior because someone is offended.

Who's excusing this behavior? You are the one making excuses for actions that could get our troops killed.

141 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:39:02pm

re: #133 KDS1

Yeah, that's the definition of "surrendering to terror"...

comedy central dimmies, oh my.

142 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:39:10pm

re: #65 Gus 802

"Don't look into the comments, Egon!"
"I looked into the comments, Ray."

143 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:39:25pm

It emboldens the enemy.
Now, where have I heard this before...

144 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:39:27pm

re: #134 captdiggs

That does not excuse murderous behavior because someone is offended.
I fully understand what Petraeus is saying, and I agree that the risk increases with the book burning.

Well. This isn't about Theo Van Gogh. This isn't about a single murder of one individual. This is about maintaining the respect of the Afghan people and the collateral damage that may occur based on the action of the anti-Muslim clans we are now experiencing in America.

145 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:40:08pm

re: #138 jamesfirecat

I'd suggest you think about reading Why The Allies Won sometime.

Hitler tried to be both at the same time, being both the tactical commander in the field and the strategic person who called the tune that the entire army/nation would dance to and the German Military was worse of for it.

(Not comparing the General to Hitler obviously, I'm just saying even with the better communications gear we have today, it's still probably over reaching to think the same man can lead a country on one side of the globe, and fight a war on the other...)

please remember that my original post was snark...

146 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:41:15pm

re: #140 Max D. Reinhardt

Who's excusing this behavior? You are the one making excuses for actions that could get our troops killed.

Bullshit.
I'm pointing out that killing over this is irrational.

147 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:41:39pm

re: #146 captdiggs

Bullshit.
I'm pointing out that killing over this is irrational.

Actually, you're deflecting for the bigots.

148 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:42:10pm

re: #146 captdiggs

Bullshit.
I'm pointing out that killing over this is irrational.

most killing is, no?

149 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:42:27pm

re: #132 brookly red

Hmmm, you make a good point. Perhaps a leader that considered the wants of the locals would be refreshing ;)


Candidate Obama ran on a platform of reforming health care, fostering an alternative energy economy, regulating Wall Street, closing Gitmo, investing in infrastructure, and favoring middle-class tax cuts over tax cuts for the rich. Everything he's done so far are things he was elected to do.

150 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:43:02pm

re: #148 brookly red

most killing is, no?

I killed a nest of fire ants the other day

seemed rational to me!

151 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:43:33pm

re: #136 Slumbering Behemoth

Jebus! If a few level-headed words from Gen. Petraeus can't talk these fuck-wits down, I doubt anything could.

Jesus Christ Himself could part the clouds and tell this group to knock it off, and they'd likely label Him a traitor dhimmi.

FTFY...

///

152 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:43:39pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

I killed a nest of fire ants the other day

seemed rational to me!

If you stop posting suddenly, we'll know why.
///

153 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:43:41pm

re: #146 captdiggs

Bullshit.
I'm pointing out that killing over this is irrational.

This isn't all about killing.

“It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort in Afghanistan,” Gen. David Petraeus said in a statement issued Monday.

Endanger the overall effort.

154 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:44:11pm

re: #147 Varek Raith

Actually, you're deflecting for the bigots.

No, I'm pointing something out about irrational behavioral responses.

155 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:44:26pm

re: #152 Varek Raith

If you stop posting suddenly, we'll know why.
///

Those lil suckers are VICIOUS

156 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:44:28pm

re: #146 captdiggs

Bullshit.
I'm pointing out that killing over this is irrational.

i would offer that a better characterization is "you're not helping".

157 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:45:06pm

re: #110 Gus 802
With all due respect, that phrase has been lathered, rinsed, and repeated for a decade now, to little effect.
Maybe it's too ambitious, and we should substitute ' live and let live '.
Baby steps.

158 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:45:12pm

re: #153 Gus 802

How many times do I have to repeat my agreement with Petraeus?

159 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:45:14pm

re: #146 captdiggs

Bullshit.
I'm pointing out that killing over this is irrational.

Biggest fucking "duh" ever!

160 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:45:42pm

re: #149 elbruce

Candidate Obama ran on a platform of reforming health care, fostering an alternative energy economy, regulating Wall Street, closing Gitmo, investing in infrastructure, and favoring middle-class tax cuts over tax cuts for the rich. Everything he's done so far are things he was elected to do.

last I checked Gitmo is still open, my taxes are going up, we are still dependent on foreign oil, and health care is a mess. Please try again.

161 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:46:04pm

re: #150 sattv4u2
The easy way, the hard way, or the smart way?

162 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:46:28pm

re: #160 brookly red

last I checked Gitmo is still open, my taxes are going up, we are still dependent on foreign oil, and health care is a mess. Please try again.

Can you deny that Obama has been at least trying to work on those issues?

163 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:46:34pm

If we let the hate-crime crowd make this about Christianity vs. Islam, then we're in for a far bloodier conflict than if we keep the focus on the U.S. sticking to its ideals and helping Afghanistan become a free democracy. Those who would like to engage in anti-Islam hate speech and violence (as well as those in Muslim countries who would do the same thing the other way around) are the enemy. It's not about Christian vs. Muslim; it's about sane people (on both of those sides) vs. the crazy bigots (on both of those sides). The crazy bigots can point fingers at each other all they want, but at the end of the day, they're both the enemies of freedom and peace.

164 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:47:37pm

re: #161 tradewind

The easy way, the hard way, or the smart way?

Amdro

a couple of capfuls around the base of the mound,, within 48 hours ,,, NADA

165 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:47:45pm

re: #156 Aceofwhat?

i would offer that a better characterization is "you're not helping".

I am merely pointing out another side of this.
Unfortunately, people here are determined to ignore that aspect and dwell on their rage against the nutty church.

166 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:47:45pm

re: #161 tradewind

The easy way, the hard way, or the smart way?

I'm going with a lighter and a can of hair spray.

167 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:48:31pm

re: #166 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm going with a lighter and a can of hair spray.

gets the ones on the surface, but not the deep nesters

AMDRO is your friend

168 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:48:41pm

re: #165 captdiggs

Nobody is ignoring that it's irrational to want to kill people over burned books.

Nobody.

169 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:48:54pm

re: #165 captdiggs

I am merely pointing out another side of this.
Unfortunately, people here are determined to ignore that aspect and dwell on their rage against the nutty church.

Because they are putting our troops in danger.
Jackass.

170 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:48:59pm

re: #162 jamesfirecat
There's the slogan for the '12 re-elect campaign:
"He's Tryin' ".

171 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:49:45pm

re: #162 jamesfirecat

Can you deny that Obama has been at least trying to work on those issues?

I can't deny that... nor can his approval numbers.

172 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:50:06pm

re: #157 tradewind

With all due respect, that phrase has been lathered, rinsed, and repeated for a decade now, to little effect.
Maybe it's too ambitious, and we should substitute ' live and let live '.
Baby steps.

Really. We are engaged in hostile action as an occupying force in a foreign country where the majority religion is the Muslim religion. The population there will be influenced by what they see happening the USA with the sudden ramped up Islamaphobia and will thus see US troops as being from a country that is hostile to their religion through these actions. The competing force is the Taliban. How can we win them over or keep them on "our side" with this rampant bigotry?

Put another way. If this keeps up the Afghans will think we're a bunch of assholes and start siding with the Taliban, again, and in greater numbers.

No hearts and minds will be won. Advantage, Taliban.

173 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:50:08pm

re: #165 captdiggs

I am merely pointing out another side of this.
Unfortunately, people here are determined to ignore that aspect and dwell on their rage against the nutty church.

Nutty church was wrong. Period. Stop. There is no other side to nutty church.

Secondly, i quite doubt that the side you're pointing to is anything that folks here disagree with in the slightest. If it is, though, this ain't the place to do it. Because it looks like deflection and it sounds like deflection, so even if it's not a duck...it's not helping.

Tu comprends ou quoi?

174 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:50:09pm

re: #167 sattv4u2

gets the ones on the surface, but not the deep nesters

AMDRO is your friend


So now my grand total of friends is one.

175 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:50:38pm

re: #166 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm going with a lighter and a can of hair spray.

updinged. style counts.

176 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:51:13pm

re: #162 jamesfirecat

Can you deny that Obama has been at least trying to work on those issues?

I'd say that Obama has pretty much stalled on closing Gitmo and so have the Congressional Democrats and he's done nothing to extend the Bush tax cuts (which will make everyone's taxes go up, not just the rich).

177 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:51:28pm

re: #174 Cannadian Club Akbar

So now my grand total of friends is one.

Hey ,, thats one more than you deserve or have ever had

You're welcome!!

////

178 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:51:40pm

re: #160 brookly red

last I checked Gitmo is still open, my taxes are going up, we are still dependent on foreign oil, and health care is a mess. Please try again.

1. Gitmo is only still open because Republicans blocked moving them to federal penitentiaries, and Democrats rolled over and played dead (again).

2. If your taxes are going up, then you must be doing very well indeed, seeing as how the bottom 95% got a tax cut.

3. If you're complaining about continued oil dependence, then I assume you would support carbon taxes, or at least cap-and-trade. Yes?

4. Health care is a lot less of a mess than it was a year ago when we weren't doing anything about it, which is what the GOP advocates.

On the one hand, you complain that Obama ignores the will of the people; when I point out that his policy directives are the exact same to-do-list that he campaigned on, you point out that he hasn't completed them. But he hasn't completed them due to resistance from the GOP. Which makes it pretty clear that they're the ones ignoring the will of the people.

179 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:51:43pm

re: #172 Gus 802

Really. We are engaged in hostile action as an occupying force in a foreign country where the majority religion is the Muslim religion. The population there will be influenced by what they see happening the USA with the sudden ramped up Islamaphobia and will thus see US troops as being from a country that is hostile to their religion through these actions. The competing force is the Taliban. How can we win them over or keep them on "our side" with this rampant bigotry?

Put another way. If this keeps up the Afghans will think we're a bunch of assholes and start siding with the Taliban, again, and in greater numbers.

No hearts and minds will be won. Advantage, Taliban.

Why is this so hard for some to understand?

180 mikhailtheplumber  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:51:58pm

OT: Has anyone seen the "white-people-be-afraid-of-black-voter-fraud" video by these Tea Party group King Street Patriots? Be warned, it's not pretty, although there are worse things out there.

According to HuffPo, and I know it's not the best source around, their honest, truth-seeking video uses doctored images of a Gore-Liberman recount rally to make it seems African Americans complain they could only vote once.

181 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:52:31pm

re: #170 tradewind

There's the slogan for the '12 re-elect campaign:
"He's Tryin' ".

I'll take well meaning and ineffectual over mean and crazy any day of the week, and I'm willing to bet whoever runs against him on the GOP ticket come 2012 will be to the right of John McCain (thus insuring they have a well stocked surplus of mean and crazy) unless somebody turns things around real soon....

182 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:53:02pm

re: #178 elbruce

1. Gitmo is only still open because Republicans blocked moving them to federal penitentiaries, and Democrats rolled over and played dead (again).

2. If your taxes are going up, then you must be doing very well indeed, seeing as how the bottom 95% got a tax cut.

3. If you're complaining about continued oil dependence, then I assume you would support carbon taxes, or at least cap-and-trade. Yes?

4. Health care is a lot less of a mess than it was a year ago when we weren't doing anything about it, which is what the GOP advocates.

On the one hand, you complain that Obama ignores the will of the people; when I point out that his policy directives are the exact same to-do-list that he campaigned on, you point out that he hasn't completed them. But he hasn't completed them due to resistance from the GOP. Which makes it pretty clear that they're the ones ignoring the will of the people.

yeah OK what ever you say.

183 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:53:20pm

re: #169 Varek Raith

Because they are putting our troops in danger.
Jackass.

And my point is sociological.
But your problem is that what I am pointing to can't be used to rage against "wingnuts".

184 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:53:27pm

re: #165 captdiggs

I am merely pointing out another side of this.

The "other side" of opposing hate speech, is hate speech. Complaining that there are some people in some other countries who are allowed to openly engage in hate speech, does not change the fact that you're advocating hate speech. Nor does it convince me to drop my opposition to hate speech.

185 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:53:40pm

re: #176 Max D. Reinhardt

I'd say that Obama has pretty much stalled on closing Gitmo and so have the Congressional Democrats and he's done nothing to extend the Bush tax cuts (which will make everyone's taxes go up, not just the rich).

Nothing needs to be done about them before they actually expire.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that the Democrats are actually stupid enough to repeatedly say that they'll prolong the tax cuts for everyone other than the highest percentile, and then suddenly not do that.

That would be absolute political suicide.

186 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:53:43pm

re: #179 Varek Raith

Why is this so hard for some to understand?

Got me. I guess they're cool with burning Korans? Great. People in Afghanistan will be watching satellite TV and their impression of Americans will become one of a bunch of crazy lunatics burning their holy book. Eventually they will think we've been faking it all along.

187 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:53:47pm

re: #174 Cannadian Club Akbar

So now my grand total of friends is one.

I told you, dude. Do some damn sock laundry and people will quit avoiding you.
/

188 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:54:04pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

I killed a nest of fire ants the other day

seemed rational to me!

Well, unlike the "Dick Wingnut Asshole Center", fire ants have a useful purpose. They eat Boll Weevils, and thus help farmers grow cotton.

189 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:54:06pm

re: #170 tradewind

There's the slogan for the '12 re-elect campaign:
"He's Tryin' ".

Yes We Can! But Then-Again, Maybe We Shouldn't.

190 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:54:09pm

re: #181 jamesfirecat

I'll take well meaning and ineffectual over mean and crazy any day of the week, and I'm willing to bet whoever runs against him on the GOP ticket come 2012 will be to the right of John McCain (thus insuring they have a well stocked surplus of mean and crazy) unless somebody turns things around real soon...

Prediction time. If Marco Rubio will be the VP pick.

191 Kragar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:55:17pm

I am pissed right now.

Tried taking a shower this morning, but all I got was cold water, figured maybe the water heater needed some time so I'd try again in a few hours, but no luck.


I call our property manager to report, but the numbers been disconnected, so I walk down to her place to report it. She tells me she no longer works for the holding company and tells me to call their number. I call their number and their emergency contact number says to call the property manager who they let go. No other contact numbers available, please call back during normal business hours.

Motherfuckers

192 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:55:18pm

re: #184 elbruce

does not change the fact that you're advocating hate speech.

Complete fucking bullshit.
You interject something I never said.

193 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:55:29pm

re: #7 Varek Raith

I must vehemently disagree.
Battlefield Earth needs to be wiped out of existence.

Shredder. Hamster cage. Might at least get some use out of it.

194 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:55:44pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Well, unlike the "Dick Wingnut Asshole Center", fire ants have a useful purpose. They eat Boll Weevils, and thus help farmers grow cotton.

Looking out my back window, I saw no cotton plants, and although I do have a blueberry bush and a few flowers, bushes and trees, i'm not a farmer, so I figured, what the hell

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:55:44pm

re: #190 Cannadian Club Akbar

Prediction time. If Marco Rubio will be the VP pick.

If Rubio wins the senate race in florida. Nothing is working right for me here today.

196 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:55:46pm

Step 1) Claim to Support The Troops who are primarily engaged in risking their lives to keep fanatical crazy Muslims from slaughtering non-fanatical, non-crazy Muslims.

Step 2) While doing so, engage in increasingly inflammatory rhetoric by which you imply that entire Islamic faith is your mortal, existential enemy. Set fire to buildings, and spray paint graffiti that implies depraved violence.

Step 3) Wonder why nothing changes.

197 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:56:40pm

re: #185 Obdicut

Nothing needs to be done about them before they actually expire.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that the Democrats are actually stupid enough to repeatedly say that they'll prolong the tax cuts for everyone other than the highest percentile, and then suddenly not do that.

That would be absolute political suicide.

The best option politically would be to replace the middle class cuts with a new program so it can be advertised as the "Obama tax cuts" instead of the "Bush tax cuts" in the future. I'd be willing to bet the GOP will filibuster it anyway.

198 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:56:47pm

re: #190 Cannadian Club Akbar

Prediction time. If Marco Rubio will be the VP pick.

From what I've seen, Rubio has a surprisingly calm temperament. If the Republicans pick someone big, fat, angry, and aggressive, he may be a good VP pick. Adds balance.

199 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:57:19pm

re: #164 sattv4u2
You can sprinkle some instant grits around the hole, the queen will be fed by the workers and she'll die.... or pour a 99-cent bottle of peroxide down the hole.
I was skeptical, but it totally works.
A friend of my Dad's set himself on fire accidentally trying to burn out a colony.

200 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:57:21pm

re: #165 captdiggs

I am merely pointing out another side of this.
Unfortunately, people here are determined to ignore that aspect and dwell on their rage against the nutty church.

If "the one side" is what's posted at the top (Petraeus says anti-Islam bigotry put US troops in danger) and your "another side" is that Muslims are too sensitive to criticism, and you agree with Petraeus, then perhaps you should examine your feeling that Muslims are too sensitive, in case that might turn out to be some of what Petraeus is talking about.

201 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:58:06pm

re: #198 Max D. Reinhardt

From what I've seen, Rubio has a surprisingly calm temperament. If the Republicans pick someone big, fat, angry, and aggressive, he may be a good VP pick. Adds balance.

The commercials he is running are awesome. Very touching. (looking at this from a political perspective)

202 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:58:11pm

re: #184 elbruce

do us a favor. save the "LOOK!! A BIGOT!!" wolf cries for actual bigots.

thaaanks

203 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:58:55pm

re: #192 captdiggs

Complete fucking bullshit.
You interject something I never said.

Oh, you didn't outright say it. You just jumped into a topic that's about anti-Muslim hate speech to try to derail it to talk about past misbehavior by Muslims instead. The obvious intent is to blunt criticism of hate speech.

204 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:58:56pm

re: #190 Cannadian Club Akbar

Prediction time. If Marco Rubio will be the VP pick.

The two sanest possible GOP picks for 2012 at the moment seem to be Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney.

One of them is the brother to the guy who got us into this mess and the other is just as much of a flip flopper the conservative version of John Kerry with marginally more charisma minus a war record.

The GOP seems to have a rather shallow bench for respectable Presidential candidates at the moment.

205 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:59:14pm

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I am pissed right now.

Tried taking a shower this morning, but all I got was cold water, figured maybe the water heater needed some time so I'd try again in a few hours, but no luck.

I call our property manager to report, but the numbers been disconnected, so I walk down to her place to report it. She tells me she no longer works for the holding company and tells me to call their number. I call their number and their emergency contact number says to call the property manager who they let go. No other contact numbers available, please call back during normal business hours.

Motherfuckers

well I think their account just gave them the numbers for 2011 & they are doing what any business would... walk away & cut their losses.

206 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:59:15pm

re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar

If Rubio wins the senate race in florida. Nothing is working right for me here today.

i'm all about Crist, baby. it's the "republicans who aren't afraid to be respectful to their Presidents" tent...

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:59:29pm

re: #49 right_wing2

Worldwide. Although we're starting to see extremism here, with a few of what may be honor killings.

The mosque vandalism is certainly violence. Protests against the center in NY, not so much. Koran burning, not violence, just something that's gonna piss 'em off.

It's more than that. Burning scripture strikes a very, very deep chord. It's an act of pure hostility against an entire religion. I understand that the Dove Outreach people are also hoping to burn the Talmud. That makes me almost physically sick.

This is pure, threatening, crazy bigotry here.

(And yes, I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone who torches a Koran is a bigot.)

208 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:59:39pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

Jeb already said he isn't running.

209 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 3:59:55pm

re: #196 negativ

Step 1) Claim to Support The Troops who are primarily engaged in risking their lives to keep fanatical crazy Muslims from slaughtering non-fanatical, non-crazy Muslims.

Step 2) While doing so, engage in increasingly inflammatory rhetoric by which you imply that entire Islamic faith is your mortal, existential enemy. Set fire to buildings, and spray paint graffiti that implies depraved violence.

Step 3) Wonder why nothing changes.

I feel like I'm watching that movie over and over.

210 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:00:16pm

re: #198 Max D. Reinhardt

From what I've seen, Rubio has a surprisingly calm temperament. If the Republicans pick someone big, fat, angry, and aggressive, he may be a good VP pick. Adds balance.

Isn't Marco Rubio also a...

(Wait for it while I go check LGF records...)

211 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:00:22pm

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

that's bullshit

212 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:00:29pm

re: #202 Aceofwhat?

do us a favor. save the "LOOK!! A BIGOT!!" wolf cries for actual bigots.

thaaanks

What are you talking about Ace? He was talking about hate speech in general.

213 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:00:30pm

re: #206 Aceofwhat?

i'm all about Crist, baby. it's the "republicans who aren't afraid to be respectful to their Presidents" tent...

Meek is running ads against Crist here.

214 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:01:04pm

re: #181 jamesfirecat
I wouldn't salivate yet. Republicans, unfortunately, are safety-wired to the ' pick the guy who's waited his turn ' position, which indicates Romney. He's okay, but I wish they'd break the mold and go with say, a Christie.
If you're thinking you're going to be treated to a Palin/Beck-esque ticket, you're going to be disappointed.

215 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:01:08pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

It's more than that. Burning scripture strikes a very, very deep chord. It's an act of pure hostility against an entire religion. I understand that the Dove Outreach people are also hoping to burn the Talmud. That makes me almost physically sick.

This is pure, threatening, crazy bigotry here.

(And yes, I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone who torches a Koran is a bigot.)

Where did you read this?

216 abolitionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:01:26pm

re: #184 elbruce

The "other side" of opposing hate speech, is hate speech. Complaining that there are some people in some other countries who are allowed to openly engage in hate speech, does not change the fact that you're advocating hate speech. Nor does it convince me to drop my opposition to hate speech.

You speak of your opposition to hate speech, but declare that the "other side" of opposing hate speech, is hate speech. Sorry, that's not making any sense to me.

217 captdiggs  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:01:46pm

re: #203 elbruce

Oh, you didn't outright say it. You just jumped into a topic that's about anti-Muslim hate speech to try to derail it to talk about past misbehavior by Muslims instead. The obvious intent is to blunt criticism of hate speech.

Quite trying to read minds and make up what people say.
You do that a lot.

wrench got it in #200...which was a reasonable response.

218 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:01:56pm

re: #208 Cannadian Club Akbar

Jeb already said he isn't running.

So has Sarah, lets see how that plays out.

219 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:02:08pm

re: #210 jamesfirecat

Isn't Marco Rubio also a...

Rubio is a creationist and a hard core social con.

220 Kragar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:02:10pm

re: #211 Aceofwhat?

that's bullshit

Getting the other 4 tenants to call and complain too. This is fucking horseshit.

221 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:02:48pm

re: #217 captdiggs

Hell. You made me ding you up.

:)

222 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:02:55pm

Scenario 1.

OK You live in East LA. The cops that patrol your area are all from Simi Valley. They've been trying to combat crime and the drug dealers there for years. Suddenly, and overnight it seems, the people of Simi valley are burning records and expressing their bigotry of the people of East LA. The folks in East LA notice this. What do you think the reaction will be towards these cops, most of whom are from Simi Valley?

In many ways this already happens but not to this extreme.

223 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:03:37pm

re: #216 abolitionist

You speak of your opposition to hate speech, but declare that the "other side" of opposing hate speech, is hate speech. Sorry, that's not making any sense to me.

Sorry: I should have said that the other side of opposing it is defending it. Defending hate speech isn't literally hate speech itself; that would be far too imprecise. But it sure ain't the right side of the pro-vs-con hate speech side to be on.

224 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:03:38pm

re: #212 b_sharp

What are you talking about Ace? He was talking about hate speech in general.

homey said this about captdiggs, with whom i've disagreed this entire thread

does not change the fact that you're advocating hate speech.

thinking that someone is wrong and thinking that someone is advocating hate speech are related like cats and pebbles. it's not the sort of accusation that we ought to bandy about here, imho.

225 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:03:44pm

re: #220 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Getting the other 4 tenants to call and complain too. This is fucking horseshit.

[Link: t3.gstatic.com...]

226 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:04:03pm

re: #210 jamesfirecat

Isn't Marco Rubio also a...

(Wait for it while I go check LGF records...)

Creationist....

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

A creationist who says people who want evolution taught in schools are using the same methods that Castro used to tighten his grip on Cuba...

///Yeah I can see that playing real well with Mainstream America....

227 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:04:16pm

re: #204 jamesfirecat

The two sanest possible GOP picks for 2012 at the moment seem to be Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney.

One of them is the brother to the guy who got us into this mess and the other is just as much of a flip flopper the conservative version of John Kerry with marginally more charisma minus a war record.

The GOP seems to have a rather shallow bench for respectable Presidential candidates at the moment.

Personally, I'd vote for Jeb Bush without hesitation. I don't know if I could vote for Mitt Romney. I'd have to see how he acts on the campaign trail (I've always thought of him as the Republican John Kerry too. 04 would happen all over again.)

228 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:04:17pm

re: #213 Cannadian Club Akbar

Meek is running ads against Crist here.

smart guy. i'll bet he knows just how many of us absolutely can't pull Rubio's lever.

229 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:04:25pm

re: #220 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Getting the other 4 tenants to call and complain too. This is fucking horseshit.

Make sure you keep a detailed record of who/what time/where you called and who you spoke with and what they said

get the others to do the same

230 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:04:52pm

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

homey said this about captdiggs, with whom i've disagreed this entire thread

thinking that someone is wrong and thinking that someone is advocating hate speech are related like cats and pebbles. it's not the sort of accusation that we ought to bandy about here, imho.

Gotcha.

231 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:05:07pm

Killgore's movie recommendation of the day....

In Bruges

The trailer has a few minor spoilers but it's an awesome dark comedy/ganster movie without all the typical American cliches. Very slowly paced movie but stick with it. Very worth while. I really like the slow pacing, much like older movies from the 70's but some younger folks may find it a little too slow.

232 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:05:16pm

re: #227 Max D. Reinhardt

Personally, I'd vote for Jeb Bush without hesitation. I don't know if I could vote for Mitt Romney. I'd have to see how he acts on the campaign trail (I've always thought of him as the Republican John Kerry too. 04 would happen all over again.)

the GOP candidate will be someone we have never heard of...

233 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:05:17pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

I understand that the Dove Outreach people are also hoping to burn the Talmud. That makes me almost physically sick.


As long as they don't get their hands on a Torah. But as long as they don't know the difference, let's keep that fact on the down low...

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:05:30pm

re: #88 captdiggs

The idea that the threat of killings by muslims becomes elevated because of this little repugnant stunt does not really say much in the way the behavior of those willing to kill over a demonstration, no matter what that demonstration is.
The Saudis burn bibles and all non muslim religious items they confiscate, yet no one even thinks to say that they risk elevating the threat of Saudis citizens being killed for those actions.

I think you're confusing 'practical concerns in the theater of combat' with 'absolute fairness worldwide'.

235 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:05:32pm

re: #228 Aceofwhat?

smart guy. i'll bet he knows just how many of us absolutely can't pull Rubio's lever.

Rubio will win. Did you see Rick Scott's choice for Lt. Gubner?

236 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:05:57pm

re: #214 tradewind

I wouldn't salivate yet. Republicans, unfortunately, are safety-wired to the ' pick the guy who's waited his turn ' position, which indicates Romney. He's okay, but I wish they'd break the mold and go with say, a Christie.
If you're thinking you're going to be treated to a Palin/Beck-esque ticket, you're going to be disappointed.

Hey I'm freaking fine with running against Mitt Romney, maybe if we root around in the RNC's dumpster we can dig out those "Flip flopper" signs they ditched after 2004.....

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:06:31pm

re: #94 jamesfirecat

Would you say the Jewish world needs to grow a thicker skin if people said they had a problem with burning Torahs?

(Is that how you spell it?)

Yes, that's how you spell it.

And it's been done, by the same kind of people who burn the Koran.

And those who begin by burning books...well, we know how they end up.

238 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:06:36pm

damn ,, Navy stuffed on the one inch line!

239 Kragar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:06:42pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

[Link: t3.gstatic.com...]

There is something wrong when I attempt to find a good image of an Eversor assassin and rule 34 kicks in on the second page of search images.

240 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:07:13pm

re: #236 jamesfirecat

Hey I'm freaking fine with running against Mitt Romney, maybe if we root around in the RNC's dumpster we can dig out those "Flip flopper" signs they ditched after 2004...

Romney has no chance in hell...

241 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:07:20pm

re: #213 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm afraid Crist's 15 minutes are up. When it gets down to the lick log, the party flippers usually don't do well, especially down South. The Republicans are going home to Rubio, Meek is inheriting the real Dems, and Crist is pretty much out of $$$.

242 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:07:31pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There is something wrong when I attempt to find a good image of an Eversor assassin and rule 34 kicks in on the second page of search images.

Gotta love the internet.
Or not.
:)

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:07:36pm

re: #99 captdiggs

Theo Van Gogh got it.

So, close the logic gap there. Are you saying that because religious extremists killed Van Gogh, we should approve of religious extremists who only burn books?

244 Kragar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:07:38pm

re: #229 sattv4u2

Make sure you keep a detailed record of who/what time/where you called and who you spoke with and what they said

get the others to do the same

So far, its all been voicemails.

245 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:07:47pm

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

thinking that someone is wrong and thinking that someone is advocating hate speech are related like cats and pebbles. it's not the sort of accusation that we ought to bandy about here, imho.


Burning holy texts is an act of hate speech, as much as burning a cross on somebody's lawn. As much as half of the things that the anti-Islam / anti-mosque movement is saying. I think it would be far more damaging to decline to call it what it is for risk of sounding impolite.

246 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:08:57pm

re: #218 jamesfirecat
Yeah, Bubba said that, in AR once......' I'll serve my whole term '.
You can't really hold 'em to that kind of thing.

247 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:09:05pm

re: #244 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So far, its all been voicemails.

mark down each and every time

248 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:09:12pm

re: #220 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Getting the other 4 tenants to call and complain too. This is fucking horseshit.

in times like these, i like to pull out my smarmy, smug, sarcastic side and let it rip. you may not get satisfaction, but you can still get satisfaction...

249 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:09:17pm

re: #232 brookly red

the GOP candidate will be someone we have never heard of...

Well then I guess they're a lock for the people who would vote a straight party ticket even if they were all different kinds of fruit come November.... but how is he/she going to beat out the bigger names in the primaries?

250 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:09:23pm

re: #241 tradewind

Crist is all over the place on issues. And in a 3 way race, I don't think he stands a chance. And Meek ain't gonna win.

251 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:09:42pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

So, close the logic gap there.

I'm going to save that sentence for future use. Looks real handy.

252 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:09:47pm

re: #209 wrenchwench

I feel like I'm watching that movie over and over.

From both the left and right. I know, but I'm going to use this thread to fully stat out the Magical Balance Fairy.

How about we use this as a meter stick:

Ideologues don't really care about the troops or anyone else who's not part of their faction. Their main concern is to implement their ideology. People are secondary.

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:09:59pm

re: #120 Max D. Reinhardt

Do you just not get that we are at war and actions at home can jeopardize our efforts overseas?

Loose lips sink ships comes to mind, and your lips are definitely loose.

It's funny. I SWEAR, I remember people telling me that people publicly opposing the war in Iraq was bad because it would make us look weak to our enemies.

254 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:10:24pm

re: #250 Cannadian Club Akbar

Crist is all over the place on issues. And in a 3 way race, I don't think he stands a chance. And Meek ain't gonna win.

Can someone more politically astute than me compare threeway race in Florida to the one that got Lieberman elected?

255 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:10:32pm

re: #214 tradewind

If you're thinking you're going to be treated to a Palin/Beck-esque ticket, you're going to be disappointed.


Given how well rabble-rousing is working for them, and with the whole teabagger thing going on, I think they might find it incredibly useful in terms of self-promotion to actually run as an independent ticket.

256 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:10:33pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

Killgore's movie recommendation of the day...

In Bruges


[Video]The trailer has a few minor spoilers but it's an awesome dark comedy/ganster movie without all the typical American cliches. Very slowly paced movie but stick with it. Very worth while. I really like the slow pacing, much like older movies from the 70's but some younger folks may find it a little too slow.

that, and if folks have never been to Bruges, go. it's a really cool town.

257 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:10:42pm

re: #249 jamesfirecat

Well then I guess they're a lock for the people who would vote a straight party ticket even if they were all different kinds of fruit come November... but how is he/she going to beat out the bigger names in the primaries?

easy, they get more votes :)

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:10:54pm

re: #136 Slumbering Behemoth

Jebus! If a few level-headed words from Gen. Petraeus can't talk these fuck-wits down, I doubt anything could.

Jesus Christ Himself could part the clouds and tell this group to knock it off, and they'd likely label Him a traitor.

MINO! (Messiah In Name Only)

259 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:11:10pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

It's funny. I SWEAR, I remember people telling me that people publicly opposing the war in Iraq was bad because it would make us look weak to our enemies.

You remember quite correctly.

The militant wing of the GOP - in the persons of FNC were prevalent in that.

260 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:11:28pm

re: #254 jamesfirecat

Can someone more politically astute than me compare threeway race in Florida to the one that got Lieberman elected?

The Dem will get 30% as will Crist. Leaves 40% for Rubio.

261 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:11:28pm

re: #240 brookly red
But here on earth, who knows what's gonna happen?
It's just way too early to know who's going to lose to Obama in '12. Because if he wants to be re-elected, he has plenty of time to get things rolling again.
I'm not totally convinced he wants another gig.

262 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:02pm

re: #255 elbruce

Given how well rabble-rousing is working for them, and with the whole teabagger thing going on, I think they might find it incredibly useful in terms of self-promotion to actually run as an independent ticket.

O HI THERE ROSS PEROT!

(We all know how it'll turn out if they do...)

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:03pm

re: #140 Max D. Reinhardt

Who's excusing this behavior? You are the one making excuses for actions that could get our troops killed.

To be fair, I don't feel that they should not exercise their first amendment rights simply because it may create PR issues for the Army.

I think they should not exercise their first amendment rights because what they want to do with them is morally repugnant.

264 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:11pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

Killgore's movie recommendation of the day...

In Bruges


[Video]

The trailer has a few minor spoilers but it's an awesome dark comedy/ganster movie without all the typical American cliches. Very slowly paced movie but stick with it. Very worth while. I really like the slow pacing, much like older movies from the 70's but some younger folks may find it a little too slow.

Good movie.

265 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:28pm

re: #250 Cannadian Club Akbar
Can't disagree with any of that.
FL politics is fun, I don't care what they say.

266 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:46pm

Football, Afghanistan, red ants, Crist, Jeb Bush, Obama, creationism, movie reviews...

I'm going cross eyed.

/

267 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:50pm

re: #260 Cannadian Club Akbar

The Dem will get 30% as will Crist. Leaves 40% for Rubio.

I was looking more for an explanation for why Liberman was able to win out as an Independent but Crist most likely won't....

268 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:50pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember people telling me that people publicly opposing the war in Iraq was bad because it would make us look weak to our enemies.

It's what Al Qaeda in Iraq was betting on. They hoped that we would be the weak horse, that we'd cut and run after the sight of a few body bags, confirming their belief that we're a weak hyperpower, just like the Soviet Union.

269 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:52pm

bbl

270 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:12:56pm

re: #241 tradewind

I'm afraid Crist's 15 minutes are up. When it gets down to the lick log, the party flippers usually don't do well, especially down South. The Republicans are going home to Rubio, Meek is inheriting the real Dems, and Crist is pretty much out of $$$.

That suits me. I'm not excited, but Rubio will hold to the party line decently, and he's not an insane person like Sharon Angle.

271 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:13:30pm

re: #266 Gus 802

Football, Afghanistan, red ants, Crist, Jeb Bush, Obama, creationism, movie reviews, eye problems,,

I'm going cross eyed.

/

272 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:13:35pm

re: #261 tradewind

But here on earth, who knows what's gonna happen?
It's just way too early to know who's going to lose to Obama in '12. Because if he wants to be re-elected, he has plenty of time to get things rolling again.
I'm not totally convinced he wants another gig.

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

It's funny/sad because its true.

273 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:14:00pm

Well hell. The Nat'l weather service doesn't know its geography either. They've issued hurricane watches for a tropical storm in the Gulf of Mexico for parts of..... Mexico.
Idiots./////

274 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:14:09pm

re: #267 jamesfirecat

I was looking more for an explanation for why [Video]Liberman was able to win out as an Independent but Crist most likely won't...

Because Lieberman doesn't have principles.

275 jaunte  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:14:36pm

re: #273 tradewind

Why is that wrong?

276 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:14:38pm

re: #267 jamesfirecat

I was looking more for an explanation for why Liberman was able to win out as an Independent but Crist most likely won't...

The guy who ran against Lieberman (the R) was a douche. And Crist is all over the map on the issues. Will be used against him.

277 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:15:02pm

re: #267 jamesfirecat
Because Lieberman didn't leave the Democratic party. He was pushed.
His electorate knew he was a Democrat at heart, just not a moonbattish one, and they rewarded him for sanity.

278 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:15:04pm

re: #270 Dark_Falcon

That suits me. I'm not excited, but Rubio will hold to the party line decently, and he's not an insane person like Sharon Angle.

Umm Dark////

Rubio, a Cuban-American, made a comparison to the strategy employed by the Communist Party in Cuba where schools encouraged children to turn in parents who criticized Fidel Castro.

“Of course, I’m not equating the evolution people with Fidel Castro,” he quickly added, while noting that undermining the family and the church were key means the Communist Party used to gain control in Cuba.

“In order to impose their totalitarian regime, they destroyed the family; they destroyed the faith links that existed in that society,” he said.

Although the evolution issue is “obviously” on a “much smaller scale,” both matters are related to the “fundamental question of who is in charge of the upbringing of children. Is it parents or is it the government? I believe it’s parents. And we should do nothing in government that undermines that relationship.

“And there are parents that passionately believe in this and they should be given the opportunity to teach that to their children without someone undoing it,” Rubio said.


Rubio may not be crazy like Sharon Angle, but that don't exactly make him sane either....

279 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:15:31pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist


(And yes, I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone who torches a Koran is a bigot.)

Repeated for truth. Amen.

280 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:16:00pm

re: #262 jamesfirecat

O HI THERE ROSS PEROT!

(We all know how it'll turn out if they do...)

I admit that's an entirely wishful-thinking-prediction on my part.

On the other hand, they might notice that if you run as an independent and don't win (which they never do) you're pretty much dead to the media forever after (anybody know what Nader or Perot are up to now? Nope, me neither). But if they want to cash out big time for a short burst, it would be the way to go.

281 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:16:18pm

Gonna lurk for a few minutes because dinner is ready.

282 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:16:20pm

re: #277 tradewind

Because Lieberman didn't leave the Democratic party. He was pushed.
His electorate knew he was a Democrat at heart, just not a moonbattish one, and they rewarded him for sanity.

And Crist wasn't pushed out for the fact that he hugged Obama?

283 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:16:27pm

re: #270 Dark_Falcon

That suits me. I'm not excited, but Rubio will hold to the party line decently, and he's not an insane person like Sharon Angle.

He's a creationist who compared teaching evolution in schools to what Castro does.

How is that not crazy?

284 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:16:47pm

I feel like this,
ლ(¯ロ¯)ლ

285 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:17:19pm

re: #268 Max D. Reinhardt

It's what Al Qaeda in Iraq was betting on. They hoped that we would be the weak horse, that we'd cut and run after the sight of a few body bags, confirming their belief that we're a weak hyperpower, just like the Soviet Union.

Well, General Petraeus taught them the fallacy of that notion. With help from George W. Bush, who waited too long but did finally make the needed changes and order the surge that played a cardinal role in winning the war.

286 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:17:25pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

So, close the logic gap there. Are you saying that because religious extremists killed Van Gogh, we should approve of religious extremists who only burn books?

For some reason, CapDiggs does not view this particular book burning as the obvious expression of overt and unbridled ethnic hate it is, but as a demonstration, I suppose of disagreement with Islamic desire for a Mosque.

287 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:17:27pm

re: #256 Aceofwhat?

that, and if folks have never been to Bruges, go. it's a really cool town.

It doesn't come across in the trailer but the movie is about what a coll city it is. When I first started watching it seemed like a travel/vacation movie about how cool the city is.
They do poke a lot of fun at American tourists.

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:17:32pm

re: #215 JasonA

Where did you read this?

Someone mentioned it here some time ago. There are a number of Google refs, here's one.

289 darthstar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:17:44pm

Don't know if this has been posted or not, but President Obama pretty much called out his critics today in his Labor Day speech:

"that's not part of my prepared remarks, but it fits."

290 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:17:59pm

re: #284 Varek Raith

Is that a man who's upside-down holding a marshmallow between his butt-cheeks?

291 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:01pm

re: #284 Varek Raith

I feel like this,
ლ(¯ロ¯)ლ

go to proctology.com

292 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:02pm

re: #275 jaunte
It's not. Triple sarc tags. Ragging on an earlier post insisting that Mexico's coastline had nothing in common with the Gulf of Mexico.

293 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:10pm

re: #278 jamesfirecat

Rubio may not be crazy like Sharon Angle, but that don't exactly make him sane either...


I'm just amazed that in a three-way race with two people on the other side the Democrat still comes in a distant third. Regardless of the local tendencies, splitting one side nearly in half should always give the advantage to the other. This Kendrick Meek guy must just suck.

294 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:12pm

re: #277 tradewind

Because Lieberman didn't leave the Democratic party. He was pushed.
His electorate knew he was a Democrat at heart, just not a moonbattish one, and they rewarded him for sanity.

Also the fact that the Connecticut Republican Party is a joke with a very small web or activists and voters.

295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:47pm

re: #284 Varek Raith

Is that someones butt with a square sphincter?

No wonder he's grabbing onto the toilet seat...

296 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:51pm

re: #264 reine.de.tout

Good movie.

I wasn't sure if it would appeal to women but it was a really impressive character study. I thought the language might be a bit much for the lady folks.

297 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:53pm

re: #283 Obdicut

He's a creationist who compared teaching evolution in schools to what Castro does.

How is that not crazy?

I've decided to give the GOP a pass on creationism for electoral purposes for the time being.

298 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:53pm

re: #282 jamesfirecat

And Crist wasn't pushed out for the fact that he hugged Obama?

No. he bailed because the polling wasn't in his favor.

299 Kragar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:18:57pm

re: #284 Varek Raith

I feel like this,
ლ(¯ロ¯)ლ

Better than this
( 0 )

300 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:19:16pm

re: #290 Obdicut

Is that a man who's upside-down holding a marshmallow between his butt-cheeks?

re: #291 brookly red

go to proctology.com

You're sick people!!!
///
:P
It's a... something fed up with the world and throwing his hands up in disgust.

301 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:19:34pm

re: #290 Obdicut

Is that a man who's upside-down holding a marshmallow between his butt-cheeks?

rorschach would have a field day with you!!

302 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:19:52pm

re: #298 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. he bailed because the polling wasn't in his favor.

Wasn't their a set time limit for when a guy could declare himself an independent in Florida?

As in if he had stayed on and lost the Republican Primary he'd be done, unlike Liberman?

303 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:20:05pm

re: #300 Varek Raith

re: #291 brookly red

You're sick people!!!
///
:P
It's a... something fed up with the world and throwing his hands up in disgust.

Really? Looked like someone yawning with their arms stretched up.

304 darthstar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:20:12pm

re: #300 Varek Raith

re: #291 brookly red

You're sick people!!!
///
:P
It's a... something fed up with the world and throwing his hands up in disgust.

Yes, but it looks like someone put a square peg in your round...

305 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:20:23pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

I've decided to give the GOP a pass on creationism for electoral purposes for the time being.

If you reward them with your votes they're never gonna learn Dark....

306 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:20:23pm

re: #302 jamesfirecat

Wasn't their a set time limit for when a guy could declare himself an independent in Florida?

As in if he had stayed on and lost the Republican Primary he'd be done, unlike Liberman?

Correct.

307 jaunte  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:20:28pm

re: #292 tradewind

It's not. Triple sarc tags. Ragging on an earlier post insisting that Mexico's coastline had nothing in common with the Gulf of Mexico.

Oh, well that's odd.

308 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:20:57pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

I've decided to give the GOP a pass on creationism for electoral purposes for the time being.

I bet you have.

"For electoral purposes". What a convenient justification.

That's some craven crap, DF.

Because of people voting like that, we have textbooks in Texas teaching lies about our founding fathers.

How in good conscience can you support that?

309 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:20:58pm

re: #268 Max D. Reinhardt

It's what Al Qaeda in Iraq was betting on. They hoped that we would be the weak horse, that we'd cut and run after the sight of a few body bags, confirming their belief that we're a weak hyperpower, just like the Soviet Union.

Well, there were two kinds of responses that would have favored Al Qaeda. One would be wimping out early, a la Somalia. The other would be overreacting and attacking irrelevant targets which we did do with Iraq. So while we got the "tough" part right, we completely fell down on the "smart" part.

310 jaunte  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:21:24pm

re: #263 SanFranciscoZionist

To be fair, I don't feel that they should not exercise their first amendment rights simply because it may create PR issues for the Army.

I think they should not exercise their first amendment rights because what they want to do with them is morally repugnant.

Some people during WW1 abused and even killed dachshunds because it made them feel they were helping the war effort. Burning a Quran is about as useful.

311 compound idaho  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:21:27pm

re: #135 sattv4u2

Could be,,, but I think the NCAA would always prefer two "traditional" powerhouses playing for the National Title

btw ,, you (should) have mail (or soon)

The NCAA would prefer to big TV market teams.

312 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:21:32pm

re: #300 Varek Raith

re: #291 brookly red

You're sick people!!!
///
:P
It's a... something fed up with the world and throwing his hands up in disgust.

no that is someone smuggling in a box of "newly found" absentee ballots...

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:21:57pm

re: #310 jaunte

Some people during WW1 abused and even killed dachshunds because it made them feel they were helping the war effort. Burning a Quran is about as useful.

Molly Ivins wrote about that, and commented that you never see people like that kicking German shepherds.

314 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:21:57pm

re: #293 elbruce

I'm just amazed that in a three-way race with two people on the other side the Democrat still comes in a distant third. Regardless of the local tendencies, splitting one side nearly in half should always give the advantage to the other. This Kendrick Meek guy must just suck.

It's not that. It's a base driven election and the conservative base is Florida is larger and more energized than the liberal base. In Presidential election years the Dems can count on help from the state's large number of moderates, but in off-year elections most moderates don't vote.

315 Max  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:22:18pm

re: #308 Obdicut

Not all Republicans supported the Texas Textbook Massacre or creationism. The GOP is not a monolith.

316 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:22:21pm

re: #282 jamesfirecat
Crist jumped, before the primary, because polls showed him down. Then he flopped around like a fish re Obamacare, stimulus, etc.
Lieberman was consistent in his support for the Patriot Act, the War on Terror, keeping Gitmo open, and our troops. He didn't switch merely because his positions had become unpopular with CT Dems.

317 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:23:01pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

Molly Ivins wrote about that, and commented that you never see people like that kicking German shepherds.

a second time...

318 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:23:12pm

re: #316 tradewind

Ding, Well said.

319 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:23:22pm

re: #292 tradewind

It's not. Triple sarc tags. Ragging on an earlier post insisting that Mexico's coastline had nothing in common with the Gulf of Mexico.

Who posted that?

320 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:23:26pm

re: #308 Obdicut

I bet you have.

"For electoral purposes". What a convenient justification.

That's some craven crap, DF.

Because of people voting like that, we have textbooks in Texas teaching lies about our founding fathers.

How in good conscience can you support that
?

Where did he say he was?

Are you in lock step with every stance from everyone you ever voted for? If not, how could you in "good conscience" suuport that?

321 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:23:39pm

re: #315 Max D. Reinhardt

Not all Republicans supported the Texas Textbook Massacre or creationism. The GOP is not a monolith.

But Rubio does.

Who in the GOP is actually speaking out against the Texas Textbook Massacre?

322 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:24:00pm

re: #315 Max D. Reinhardt

Not all Republicans supported the Texas Textbook Massacre or creationism. The GOP is not a monolith.

Shhh ,,,you'll ruin the ending!!

323 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:24:39pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon
Single-issue voters don't decide elections nationally, IMO.
No point in cutting off your ideological nose to spite your face..... better to hold it and vote for the candidate who most nearly represents your views.

324 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:24:42pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

I've decided to give the GOP a pass on creationism for electoral purposes for the time being.

Don't give 'em a pass, D_F. It's not just the creationism, it's what their creationism indicates about how they think. Don't throw away one of the few clues they give you.

325 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:24:49pm

re: #321 Obdicut

But Rubio does.

Who in the GOP is actually speaking out against the Texas Textbook Massacre?

I see. So if you're not "speaking out against it" you must be for it?

I never knew Obama was PRO Puppy kicking!

326 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:25:09pm

re: #320 sattv4u2

Where did he say he was?

Are you in lock step with every stance from everyone you ever voted for? If not, how could you in "good conscience" suuport that?

False dichotomy.

Yes, there really are issues that I can't support someone if they're on the wrong side of.

Being anti-science is one of those. Being a creationist is the easiest way to differentiate those who are anti-science.

327 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:25:13pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

I've decided to give the GOP a pass on creationism for electoral purposes for the time being.

So either a candidate is a crazy anti-intellectual or they're going to lie about what they believe in order to pander to crazy anti-intellectuals? Scary stuff either way.

Right now, I think the best thing a center-conservative could do to avoid helping destroy the country is support more Blue-Dog democrats. Not that I'm for that either, but at least you don't end up advocating people who are inevitably lunatics or liars.

Hopefully the day will come when a sane Republican can openly be sane in public and still stand a chance. But supporting the system that pushes anybody out who doesn't sign on to the crazy train isn't going to bring that day around any sooner.

328 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:25:19pm

re: #310 jaunte

Some people during WW1 abused and even killed dachshunds because it made them feel they were helping the war effort. Burning a Quran is about as useful.

???

329 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:25:25pm

re: #322 sattv4u2

Shhh ,,,you'll ruin the ending!!

ლ(¯ロ¯)ლ

330 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:25:32pm

re: #325 sattv4u2

Rubio is a creationist.

331 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:25:33pm

re: #316 tradewind

Crist jumped, before the primary, because polls showed him down. Then he flopped around like a fish re Obamacare, stimulus, etc.
Lieberman was consistent in his support for the Patriot Act, the War on Terror, keeping Gitmo open, and our troops. He didn't switch merely because his positions had become unpopular with CT Dems.

Thank you that was the kind of analysis I was looking for.

332 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:25:41pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

I've decided to give the GOP a pass on creationism for electoral purposes for the time being.

You and millions of others.

333 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:26:06pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

Molly Ivins wrote about that, and commented that you never see people like that kicking German shepherds.

Shepherds would bite their feet off.

334 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:26:06pm

re: #319 b_sharp
It's the thing I don't really like to do here.... rag on other posters indirectly, by name. Too much of that, IMO.

335 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:26:09pm

Let us offer to burn one Bible for every Koran that the "Dove World Outreach" people burn, and call it even.

And everybody all together:

We are

Muslims Christians Jews Hindus Animists Buddhists Atheists

Human beings.

336 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:26:16pm

re: #330 Obdicut

Rubio is a creationist.

What does that have to do with what I asked you?

337 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:26:32pm

re: #308 Obdicut

I bet you have.

"For electoral purposes". What a convenient justification.

That's some craven crap, DF.

Because of people voting like that, we have textbooks in Texas teaching lies about our founding fathers.

How in good conscience can you support that?

Because in my home state of Illinois I feel it imperative that the Republicans take the governorship. The GOP ended up nominating a creationist. Thus I had to decide what was most important to me. I decided it was more important to have someone as governor who would balance the budget and fight the Dem machine than to have someone who believes in evolution.

338 darthstar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:27:11pm

re: #329 brookly red

Gლ(¯ロ¯)ლP


ftfy

339 jaunte  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:27:11pm

re: #328 b_sharp

Destructive activity that only makes the destroyer feel good, but serves no other useful purpose.

340 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:27:17pm

re: #310 jaunte

Some people during WW1 abused and even killed dachshunds because it made them feel they were helping the war effort. Burning a Quran is about as useful.

Three wars back we called Sauerkraut "liberty cabbage" and we called liberty cabbage "super slaw" and back then a suitcase was known as a "Swedish lunchbox." Of course, nobody knew that but me. Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

341 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:27:59pm

re: #325 sattv4u2

I see. So if you're not "speaking out against it" you must be for it?


Nah, that rule only applies to Muslims and terrorist acts/organizations.

342 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:28:03pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

Molly Ivins wrote about that, and commented that you never see people like that kicking German shepherds.

Same reason you never see anti-furr people going after bikers for wearing leather....

343 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:28:29pm

///

(belated sarc tag for #341)

344 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:28:42pm

re: #337 Dark_Falcon

What makes you think he's going to balance the budget?

What does 'fighting the Dem machine' mean?

Why, in the wake of the Texas textbook issue, the odious laws in Oklahoma, the anti-science asshattery that's weakening our nation, is creationism not an important issue to you?

It's not about him not believing in evolution. It's about him supporting the teaching of creationism in schools. It's not about belief, but intentionally leaving our children ignorant.

345 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:29:32pm

re: #340 jamesfirecat

In WW2 we called the Mikado type steam locomotive the MacArthur instead.

346 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:29:41pm

re: #340 jamesfirecat

Abe? Izzat you?

347 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:32:07pm

I also want to point out that just because I'm voting for Bill Brady for governor, does not mean I'm going to support any creationist initiatives he advances. I'll send email to him, I'll write and call my state representatives, I'll make it clear such plans are bad ideas.

348 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:32:58pm

re: #310 jaunte

Some people during WW1 abused and even killed dachshunds because it made them feel they were helping the war effort. Burning a Quran is about as useful.

Sniff, I miss my poor old pit bull... I should get a coupla more.

349 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:34:05pm

re: #310 jaunte
Seriously?? Arghghgh.
Screw the Weenie Meanies.

350 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:34:51pm

re: #348 brookly red
Just don't buy a puppy. There are so many waiting to be adopted from rescues.

351 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:35:25pm

re: #326 Obdicut

False dichotomy.

Yes, there really are issues that I can't support someone if they're on the wrong side of.

Being anti-science is one of those. Being a creationist is the easiest way to differentiate those who are anti-science.

Not the intent of the question I asked, and in the context we were speaking about you knew that

Do you vote for people that you don't agree with on all issues?

Thats all Dark said he's doing

352 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:35:31pm

Is it just me, or in that Milwaukee speech, does Obama seem to be acquiring a slightly folksier accent than he normally has?

353 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:35:33pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

Looks like Bill Brady claimed he'd eliminate the deficit in the first year with a 10% budget cut. Which wouldn't actually eliminate the deficit.

This is the guy who you trust to balance the budget? The one using the "10% off of everything" plan, who can't even add up the numbers and see it wouldn't work?

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

[Link: www.thesouthern.com...]

354 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:35:35pm

re: #344 Obdicut

What makes you think he's going to balance the budget?

What does 'fighting the Dem machine' mean?

Why, in the wake of the Texas textbook issue, the odious laws in Oklahoma, the anti-science asshattery that's weakening our nation, is creationism not an important issue to you?

It's not about him not believing in evolution. It's about him supporting the teaching of creationism in schools. It's not about belief, but intentionally leaving our children ignorant.

Because he's the only one who can, and Brady seems honestly committed to the task. Pat Quinn is in thrall to the Dem machine for his reelection. The Dems in this state operate as a political machine and the result is bloated spending and corruption. Bill Brady will oppose waste and force the state to live within its means.

355 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:35:54pm

re: #350 tradewind

Just don't buy a puppy. There are so many waiting to be adopted from rescues.

unfortunately with that breed you gotta get em young or you take you chances.

356 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:36:56pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist
He was speaking to a decidedly blue-collar crowd, on Labor Day.
Not the time to speak of his love for arugula.

357 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:36:57pm

re: #353 Obdicut

Yes, that's the man I trust.

358 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:37:00pm

A politician that is hostile towards evolution in favor of creationism is typically hostile to other scientific topics and policy. You may end up with a balanced budget but wind up promoting and eduction policy that is graduating children with an archaic set of beliefs worthy of the 19th century.

359 Reginald Perrin  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:37:13pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

I've decided to give the GOP a pass on creationism for electoral purposes for the time being.

DF, you can't do that, I know you are much better than that.

360 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:37:50pm

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

How is he the only one who can, when he apparently can't add?

Now I'm reading one of his plans to eliminate debt was to cut off cable to the prisons. Which sounds great, until you read that the cable in prisons is paid for by the prisoners, and not by the taxpayers.

And the people who run the prisons say it's helpful for controlling the prison population.

So he's proposing a cut that would solve nothing, save no money, and cause problems.

361 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:37:51pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist

Is it just me, or in that Milwaukee speech, does Obama seem to be acquiring a slightly folksier accent than he normally has?

yes I did notice that too, and I thank you for mentioning it...

362 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:37:52pm

re: #355 brookly red
You can get a puppy. There are lots of them, waiting for homes. I meant just don't buy one and contribute to the backyard breeders.
/preaching off/

363 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:37:56pm

re: #356 tradewind

He was speaking to a decidedly blue-collar crowd, on Labor Day.
Not the time to speak of his love for arugula.

BFD. Hillary has like, a dozen accents.
/half

364 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:37:56pm

re: #356 tradewind

He was speaking to a decidedly blue-collar crowd, on Labor Day.
Not the time to speak of his love for arugula.

I don't think the crowd he spoke of the arugula to was exactly ideal. According to the lady who hosted that event, one listener whispered audibly to his wife "What's arugula?"

365 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:39:03pm

re: #364 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think the crowd he spoke of the arugula to was exactly ideal. According to the lady who hosted that event, one listener whispered audibly to his wife "What's arugula?"

Heh.
Arugula is good.
Peppery lettuce FTW!

366 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:39:05pm

re: #357 Dark_Falcon

Yes, that's the man I trust.

Can you give a reason for trusting him?

367 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:39:20pm

re: #363 Cannadian Club Akbar

BFD. Hillary has like, a dozen accents.
/half

Oh, many politicians do.

368 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:39:27pm

re: #325 sattv4u2

I see. So if you're not "speaking out against it" you must be for it?

I never knew Obama was PRO Puppy kicking!

Any high profile, nationally publicized cases of puppy kicking Obama should know about?

369 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:39:39pm

Don't forget. Young Earth creationism isn't limited to biological evolution. They also ram their superstitious beliefs into other sciences such as geology, astronomy, physics, etc.

370 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:40:09pm

re: #362 tradewind

You can get a puppy. There are lots of them, waiting for homes. I meant just don't buy one and contribute to the backyard breeders.
/preaching off/

not to worry I know a thing or two about dogs.

371 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:40:25pm

re: #368 b_sharp

Any high profile, nationally publicized cases of puppy kicking Obama should know about?

Mike Vick?

372 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:40:54pm

re: #363 Cannadian Club Akbar
So true. Only one authentic one, though. Park Ridge, IL, with a twinge of Ozark.

373 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:41:57pm

re: #368 b_sharp

Any high profile, nationally publicized cases of puppy kicking Obama should know about?

No but one his private flight to the Vineyard O's dog was feed day old lobster... heads will roll. :)

374 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:42:04pm

re: #365 Varek Raith
Planting a fall crop now. It's great on a BLT.

375 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:42:47pm

re: #367 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, many politicians do.

/I ain't nowheres tired...

376 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:43:07pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist

Is it just me, or in that Milwaukee speech, does Obama seem to be acquiring a slightly folksier accent than he normally has?


Yeah. When he's speaking to friendlier crowds his voice modulates a lot more. He seems to generally have 3 accents: Presidential, folksy and lilting/Southern-preacher.

377 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:43:43pm

re: #374 tradewind

Planting a fall crop now. It's great on a BLT.

For the life of me, I can't grow anything.
Now matter what I try, I fail.
Ah well.

378 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:44:04pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

For the life of me, I can't grow anything.
Now matter what I try, I fail.
Ah well.


You have a life!?!?!

379 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:44:15pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

For the life of me, I can't grow anything.
Now matter what I try, I fail.
Ah well.

Don't have kids then.
//

380 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:44:30pm

re: #375 brookly red

/I ain't nowheres tired...

Sing it.

[Harmonica music]

381 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:44:40pm

re: #378 sattv4u2

You have a life!?!?!

Heh, good point!
Vampires are undead...
:P

382 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:46:04pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist
That's one thing I really don't notice him doing much, slipping into the local vernacular. The only thing I notice him doing is that the further away from DC he gets, the more ' That's what I'm talking about ' s he sprinkles into his speeches.

383 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:46:32pm

re: #362 tradewind

You can get a puppy. There are lots of them, waiting for homes. I meant just don't buy one and contribute to the backyard breeders.
/preaching off/

I had a boss who bought a puppy. He actually spent several days researching the breeder he ultimately used. It took that long to make sure that there were no shenanigans and that they were properly caring for the dogs. He did that because he wanted a Labrador Retriever and wanted to use his dog to actually retrieve ducks and geese (he's a hunter). So it is possible to purchase from a breeder, but you really do have to look very carefully.

384 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:46:46pm

re: #377 Varek Raith
Radishes. You can't kill them.

385 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:47:13pm

re: #9 Max D. Reinhardt

Book burnings, vandalizing houses of worship, and obscene drawings designed to offend a specific religious group, ("Draw Muhammad Day") it's seriously like a prolonged Kristallnacht.

No it isn't. The scale of the thing is entirely different, and the government is not inciting it. On top of that, book burnings are not an assault on anyone's rights, and most of the drawings produced by the various artists who participated in "draw Muhammad day" did not come up with anything that meets our definition of obscenity.

Is any drawing accompanied by text naming the man drawn "Muhammad" obscene? No. It's a bad idea to exercise every last right one has, constantly, but we cannot permit a state of affairs in which whoever draws Muhammad is marked for death.

This proposed book burning is legal, but it is unwarranted, harmful to the nation, profoundly stupid, and ugly. In all this, it resembles burning the U.S. flag. I resent those who burn our flag because they take advantage of the very freedom which is the main reason why they shouldn't burn it.

I resent those who burn the Quran because their thinking is so warped. If it were true that Islam is the enemy, which it is not, then burning the Quran would be stupid because doing so would stiffen the will of the enemy.

As things actually stand, burning the Quran both stiffens the will of our actual enemy, and hardens against us the hearts of Muslims who could otherwise find much to admire in U.S. history, culture, and achievements.

The very best educated among them, and particularly those who live here already, will understand that the very freedom which has made it possible for them to live here and freely practice their faith is inescapably the freedom which permits this sort of inane affront to it. We cannot block it without eroding the foundation of all liberty.

We don't have to endorse it. We don't have to show any public respect for those who do it. Guys, if you live in the area and can make the time, go out and stand on the other side of the street and call shame down upon them.

386 Bob Levin  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:47:19pm

It's time to plaaaaaaaaaaay.......Patriot or Narcissist?

387 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:47:36pm

re: #376 elbruce

Yeah. When he's speaking to friendlier crowds his voice modulates a lot more. He seems to generally have 3 accents: Presidential, folksy and lilting/Southern-preacher.

I think he had a 4th in Cairo...

388 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:47:38pm

Anyone else watching a live feed of a nut climbing a SF skyscraper?

*Warning, may resize your browser*
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

389 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:48:05pm

re: #360 Obdicut

How is he the only one who can, when he apparently can't add?

Now I'm reading one of his plans to eliminate debt was to cut off cable to the prisons. Which sounds great, until you read that the cable in prisons is paid for by the prisoners, and not by the taxpayers.

And the people who run the prisons say it's helpful for controlling the prison population.

So he's proposing a cut that would solve nothing, save no money, and cause problems.

'Cause it shows he's "tough on crime". Like the AG there in Il who's big mover in the whole "force Craigslist to stop taking adult ads" shtick as if it would actually change anything. But she's tough on crime!

DF, don't get your hopes up. They're both twin sons of different political mothers.

390 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:48:14pm

re: #366 Obdicut

Can you give a reason for trusting him?

First, he's not in thrall to the Dem machine that caused this mess. Second, he's going to have both the mandate and desire to solve the problem. That's enough for me.

391 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:48:17pm

re: #386 Bob Levin

It's time to plaaay...Patriot or Narcissist?

I'll take Blame Bush for 200 Alex...

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:48:23pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

For the life of me, I can't grow anything.
Now matter what I try, I fail.
Ah well.

How do you expect to live when everyone else is pulling in great bumper crops of non-hybrid seed produce?

393 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:49:04pm

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

How do you expect to live when everyone else is pulling in great bumper crops of non-hybrid seed produce?

Crap!
Wait!
My minions will grow it!
Whew.

394 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:49:38pm

re: #390 Dark_Falcon

First, he's not in thrall to the Dem machine that caused this mess. Second, he's going to have both the mandate and desire to solve the problem. That's enough for me.

Those aren't reasons to trust him, Dark. I'm not in the thrall to the Dem machine that 'caused the mess', either. I wouldn't be able to fix the budget. Difference is, I wouldn't lie to you and tell you I could.

395 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:50:30pm

re: #393 Varek Raith

Crap!
Wait!
My minions will grow it!
Whew.

want some garlic shoots?

396 ErikJ76  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:50:51pm

re: #267 jamesfirecat

I was looking more for an explanation for why Liberman was able to win out as an Independent but Crist most likely won't...

I'd say that it helped that both the state GOP and republican voters abandoned the republican in the race. He had no chance of winning, much like Meek in Florida, and it was obvious that Lieberman would be a lot better than Lamont, and that supporting the republican would in the end mean that Lamont got elected.

Since the democrats are going to lose a lot of seats in the Senate, they should jettison Meek. He has no chance of winning, and for democrats, Crist would be a lot better, even if he ends up caucusing with the republicans, just as Lieberman caucuses with the democrats.

397 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:51:32pm

re: #371 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mike Vick?

I suspect Obama had something to say about that.

398 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:52:00pm

re: #388 Varek Raith

Anyone else watching a live feed of a nut climbing a SF skyscraper?

*Warning, may resize your browser*
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

That's like watching NASCAR.

//

399 lostlakehiker  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:52:00pm

re: #308 Obdicut

I bet you have.

"For electoral purposes". What a convenient justification.

That's some craven crap, DF.

Because of people voting like that, we have textbooks in Texas teaching lies about our founding fathers.

How in good conscience can you support that?

Suppose, just suppose, that we put the shoe on the other foot. You probably don't think that the Democrats are doing anything seriously wrong, but let's say they're bound and determined to enact "card check", and your moral compass points the other way. You think all elections should be secret, so people can vote without fear.

Now, you look at that, and you think, I'm willing to tolerate that for electoral purposes, because there are more important issues on which the Democrats are right and the Republicans wrong. You can do this in good conscience, because you weigh up the good and the bad on each side and that one weight in the scales is not the only consideration.

Your vote is not a vote in support of "card check".

400 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:52:23pm

re: #387 brookly red

I think he had a 4th in Cairo...

Nope, that was straight up Presidential. However, his ability to correctly pronounce Middle-Eastern names (think "PAH-kee-stahn") can be slightly jarring to a Western ear.

401 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:52:35pm

re: #398 Gus 802

That's like watching NASCAR.

//

Lol.

402 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:52:49pm

re: #383 Dark_Falcon
Believe me... since every male in my family , ( and lots of us wimmin ) hunts, and all with a Lab or two, I get it. But the Lab is the number one breed registered in America, and the number one breed that rescues try to find homes for. There were over 400,000 purebred Labs registered with the AKC last year.... far ahead ( over 200,000) of the second place German Shepherds... and that's just people who registered their litters. Thank heavens my Goldens dropped to fourth.
I'm pretty sure there weren't 400,000 good homes for them.
Again, /preach off/... I could get pretty rabid on the subject.

403 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:55:08pm

Okie dokie. Out for a bit. BBL.

404 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:55:14pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

Mint. You can't stop it from spreading!

405 compound idaho  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:55:14pm

re: #385 lostlakehiker

I agree.

406 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:55:15pm

re: #394 Obdicut

Those aren't reasons to trust him, Dark. I'm not in the thrall to the Dem machine that 'caused the mess', either. I wouldn't be able to fix the budget. Difference is, I wouldn't lie to you and tell you I could.

I hear you, but its either Bill Brady or Pat Quinn. I am absolutely certain that Quinn can't solve the problems and I'm equally certain that any fix he does attempt will involve raising my taxes and will fail due to his dependence on the machine. Thus, I am voting for Bill Brady. He's not who I wanted to win the primary (nobody is my family or political circles voted for him) but he's the best choice I have left.

407 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:55:24pm

re: #401 Varek Raith

Lol.


Why is working Airport security like watching nascar?

its pretty boring until something goes wrong

408 tradewind  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:55:45pm

re: #403 Cannadian Club Akbar
Me too. Grill's hot.

409 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:55:57pm

re: #400 elbruce

Nope, that was straight up Presidential. However, his ability to correctly pronounce Middle-Eastern names (think "PAH-kee-stahn") can be slightly jarring to a Western ear.

perhaps

410 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:56:12pm

re: #396 ErikJ76

I'd say that it helped that both the state GOP and republican voters abandoned the republican in the race. He had no chance of winning, much like Meek in Florida, and it was obvious that Lieberman would be a lot better than Lamont, and that supporting the republican would in the end mean that Lamont got elected.

Since the democrats are going to lose a lot of seats in the Senate, they should jettison Meek. He has no chance of winning, and for democrats, Crist would be a lot better, even if he ends up caucusing with the republicans, just as Lieberman caucuses with the democrats.


WTF? You're saying that the Democrats could give up because they're going to fail anyway and they get nothing out of the deal either way? Although I commend you for thinking like a mainstream Democratic strategist ("they might win so let's give up!"), it's not an apt comparison.

Lieberman explicitly promised to caucus with the Democrats, which was a large part of why CT let him win anyway. Crist won't. The only reason they should drop Meek is if they got a similar promise from Crist, and he doesn't have any reason to promise that anyway.

411 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:56:16pm

re: #399 lostlakehiker

Suppose, just suppose, that we put the shoe on the other foot. .

The shoe is on the other foot all the time.

There are actually important, deal-breaking issues.

Creationism should be one of them. Anti-science crap in general should be.

It is so goddamn dangerous to our nation it's not even funny.

412 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:57:15pm

re: #411 Obdicut

The shoe is on the other foot all the time.

There are actually important, deal-breaking issues.

Creationism should be one of them. Anti-science crap in general should be.

It is so goddamn dangerous to our nation it's not even funny.

/relax infidel...

413 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:57:18pm

re: #7 Varek Raith

you don't burn battlefield earth.(well unless you're cold)you just throw it in the trash.

414 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:57:45pm

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

So do you trust him to actually balance the budget, or are you just voting for him because he's the best choice you have left?

It's a big damn difference.

Have you considered that Brady's attempts to fix the budget, given that he seems to have no grasp of economics or the budget, may actually do more harm than good?

415 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:58:01pm

re: #413 Boondock St. Bender

you don't burn battlefield earth.(well unless you're cold)you just throw it in the trash.

NO.
IT MUST BE CLEANSED IN HOLY FIRE!!!

416 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:58:51pm

re: #415 Varek Raith

What if you just have secular fire?

417 jaunte  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:58:55pm

re: #413 Boondock St. Bender

One copy would probably make about 40 papier mache V masks

418 Kragar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:59:07pm

re: #415 Varek Raith

NO.
IT MUST BE CLEANSED IN HOLY FIRE!!!

Thats my line, heretic.

419 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:59:30pm

re: #418 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thats my line, heretic.

That's why I stole it.

420 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 4:59:57pm

re: #415 Varek Raith

NO.
IT MUST BE CLEANSED IN HOLY FIRE!!!

bull shit, you burnt dinner again didn't you?

421 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:00:02pm

re: #402 tradewind

Believe me... since every male in my family , ( and lots of us wimmin ) hunts, and all with a Lab or two, I get it. But the Lab is the number one breed registered in America, and the number one breed that rescues try to find homes for. There were over 400,000 purebred Labs registered with the AKC last year... far ahead ( over 200,000) of the second place German Shepherds... and that's just people who registered their litters. Thank heavens my Goldens dropped to fourth.
I'm pretty sure there weren't 400,000 good homes for them.
Again, /preach off/... I could get pretty rabid on the subject.

I understand and I agree. I like he just wanted to point out that it is possible to find a reputable breeder, but it takes a lot of doing.

422 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:00:11pm

Sometimes I wish I was a science teacher in a school district where I was ordered to "teach the controversy."

Chapter 1: Coyote tricks Raven into creating the land and sky
Chapter 2: Indra cuts the horizon with his flaming sword
Chapter 3: The Flying Spaghetti Monster
Chapter 4: Biblical Genesis
Chapter 5: Enki defeats Tiamat, creating the world from her corpse
Chapter 6: Aliens seeded the Earth via genetic engineering
Chapters 7-18: Actual science

423 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:00:42pm

re: #416 Obdicut

What if you just have secular fire?

no good. secular fires release particulates/

424 Mr. Crankypants  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:01:00pm

re: #415 Varek Raith

NO.
IT MUST BE CLEANSED IN HOLY FIRE!!!

Fire!

425 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:01:07pm

re: #90 Gus 802

You just don't get it do you.

You're right, they don't get it. Everything is seen through the simple-minded equivalency lens.

Like the new Gingrichian equivalency formulation that we don't really owe Muslim-Americans civil rights since Muslims in Saudi Arabia don't let Christians build churches there.

426 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:01:33pm

re: #418 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thats my line, heretic.

Here's your collar, dear....

427 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:02:08pm

re: #425 palomino

Like the new Gingrichian equivalency formulation that we don't really owe Muslim-Americans civil rights since Muslims in Saudi Arabia don't let Christians build churches there.

Or as I call it, a "let's be as bad as them!" race to the moral bottom.

428 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:02:11pm

Apparently, SFPD has decided to let the skyscraper man finish his climb, checking in from time to time. When he gets to the top, he will be arrested.

He says he's doing it to attract attention to the vulnerability of skyscrapers to terrorist attack, and also to raise cancer awareness.

And he has an American flag with him.

429 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:02:11pm

re: #422 elbruce

Sometimes I wish I was a science teacher in a school district where I was ordered to "teach the controversy."

Chapter 1: Coyote tricks Raven into creating the land and sky
Chapter 2: Indra cuts the horizon with his flaming sword
Chapter 3: The Flying Spaghetti Monster
Chapter 4: Biblical Genesis
Chapter 5: Enki defeats Tiamat, creating the world from her corpse
Chapter 6: Aliens seeded the Earth via genetic engineering
Chapters 7-18: Actual science

Excuse me I don't see anything in there about the Elder ones who will come to consume us all when they awaken!

430 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:02:17pm

re: #416 Obdicut

What if you just have secular fire?

Because he can start a holy fire with Force Lightning. There is a downside to doing so:

Cleansing the world of a horrid book = Light Side Points Gained.

431 Kragar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:02:19pm

re: #419 Varek Raith

That's why I stole it.

Xenos scum.

Though I am partial to the maxim of the Officio Assassinorum.

"Only the Emperor can judge your crimes. Only in death can you receive the Emperor's judgement."

432 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:02:20pm

re: #426 Floral Giraffe

Here's your collar, dear...

that flowed out so naturally...

433 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:03:09pm

re: #428 SanFranciscoZionist

Apparently, SFPD has decided to let the skyscraper man finish his climb, checking in from time to time. When he gets to the top, he will be arrested.

He says he's doing it to attract attention to the vulnerability of skyscrapers to terrorist attack, and also to raise cancer awareness.

And he has an American flag with him.

Damn fucking right winger. Another wingnut.

434 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:03:10pm

cheap light beer? check.
lime to make cheap light beer palatable? check.
easy homemade chip dip? check.
herbstreit and musberger? check.

Lawd, but i love CFB season...

435 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:03:56pm

re: #431 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Re-starting book six in a few minutes.
Gotta get back into the wheel of time!

436 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:04:02pm

re: #424 PT Barnum

Fire!


[Video]

1st amendment doesn't allow you to shout FIRE in a crowded blog!!

437 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:04:09pm

re: #428 SanFranciscoZionist

Apparently, SFPD has decided to let the skyscraper man finish his climb, checking in from time to time. When he gets to the top, he will be arrested.

He says he's doing it to attract attention to the vulnerability of skyscrapers to terrorist attack, and also to raise cancer awareness.

And he has an American flag with him.

pssst, here in NYC we spray our skyscrapers with baby oil just for a goof :)

438 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:04:27pm

re: #433 Walter L. Newton

Damn fucking right winger. Another wingnut.

He's just nuts.
No sane person decides to climb a skyscraper freestyle.

439 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:04:28pm

re: #433 Walter L. Newton

Damn fucking right winger. Another wingnut.

I was just thinking, typical Bay Area activist. Well-meaning, but no one else can figure out what the hell he's doing.

440 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:04:37pm

re: #433 Walter L. Newton

Damn fucking right winger. Another wingnut.

Nah, right wingers are pro-cancer.

/

441 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:04:51pm

re: #422 elbruce

no!no! we only want our fable taught cause it's like true and junk.....
all that other non-sense is just superstition....
(take a deep breath...relax...develop a sense of humor...and irony...)

442 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:04:58pm

re: #433 Walter L. Newton

Damn fucking right winger. Another wingnut.

No way. He's clearly a moonbat.

//

443 compound idaho  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:05:03pm

re: #434 Aceofwhat?

cheap light beer? check.
lime to make cheap light beer palatable? check.
easy homemade chip dip? check.
herbstreit and musberger? check.

Lawd, but i love CFB season...

What is the line on this game anyway?

444 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:05:03pm

re: #414 Obdicut

So do you trust him to actually balance the budget, or are you just voting for him because he's the best choice you have left?

It's a big damn difference.

Have you considered that Brady's attempts to fix the budget, given that he seems to have no grasp of economics or the budget, may actually do more harm than good?

I'm voting for Brady because he has the best chance to actually fix things. There's a risk to it, but either path has risks. I accept the risk of my decision and I assume said risks. And if those bad events should come to pass, upon my head a portion of the blame.

445 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:05:30pm

re: #424 PT Barnum

Fire!


[Video]

Yes Sir! BLAM!

446 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:06:07pm

re: #157 tradewind

With all due respect, that phrase has been lathered, rinsed, and repeated for a decade now, to little effect.
Maybe it's too ambitious, and we should substitute ' live and let live '.
Baby steps.

TEN years? Try 45, at least. It's what we told ourselves we were doing in Vietnam, where it failed miserably. And it's what we've been encouraged to tell ourselves again since 2003.

447 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:06:14pm

re: #439 SanFranciscoZionist

I was just thinking, typical Bay Area activist. Well-meaning, but no one else can figure out what the hell he's doing.

Lol

448 Kragar  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:06:15pm

re: #435 Floral Giraffe

Re-starting book six in a few minutes.
Gotta get back into the wheel of time!

Lord of Chaos, my favorite book in the series. Though I did like the battle of Two Rivers.

449 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:06:32pm

re: #443 compound idaho

What is the line on this game anyway?

actually, now that you mention it, i have no idea. i've never placed a bet in my life. sucks the fun out of it.

(ps, you can root for Boise on here...i might heckle you a bit, but i won't tell your Hokie-loving wife;)

450 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:06:40pm

re: #444 Dark_Falcon

I always think, if you don't VOTE, you don't get to criticize! If you vote, at least you TRIED!

451 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:06:46pm

re: #434 Aceofwhat?

cheap light beer? check.
lime to make cheap light beer palatable? check.
easy homemade chip dip? check.
herbstreit and musberger? check.

Lawd, but i love CFB season...

At work able to watch game straight from production truck without commercials
CHECK
Sending and monitoring 3 channels of US Open coverage for SKY TV
CHECK
WWE Monday Night Raw being sent to Europe and South America
CHECK

(oh well,, two good out of three)

452 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:06:56pm

re: #436 sattv4u2

unless of course there is actually a fire....

453 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:07:29pm

re: #451 sattv4u2

At work able to watch game straight from production truck without commercials
CHECK
Sending and monitoring 3 channels of US Open coverage for SKY TV
CHECK
WWE Monday Night Raw being sent to Europe and South America
CHECK

(oh well,, two good out of three)

you're a few mediocre beers short of a good time!

454 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:07:34pm

re: #444 Dark_Falcon

That's fine. It's the 'trust' part I'm objecting to. You appeared to be trusting a politician for the worst of all possible reasons: because he was telling you what you wanted to hear.

If you're voting for him because you think that every other choice is worse, that's fine. I mean, it sucks that those are your choices, but it's fine.

Given his obvious lack of understanding of what's involved in the budget, I have a feeling things are not going to improve for you if he wins. But you may get some prison riots if he refuses to understand that cutting off the cable won't actually save the state any money.

455 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:07:59pm

re: #443 compound idaho

What is the line on this game anyway?

There are many lines

50 yard line
2 - 40 yard lines
2 - 30 yard lines

:)

456 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:09:04pm

re: #446 palomino

TEN years? Try 45, at least. It's what we told ourselves we were doing in Vietnam, where it failed miserably. And it's what we've been encouraged to tell ourselves again since 2003.

Funny that... these days Vietnam is very pro American & itching to do business. Strange world, no?

457 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:09:24pm

re: #451 sattv4u2

At work able to watch game straight from production truck without commercials
CHECK
Sending and monitoring 3 channels of US Open coverage for SKY TV
CHECK
WWE Monday Night Raw being sent to Europe and South America
CHECK

(oh well,, two good out of three)

You suck. (hands in pockets, head down, lower lip extended, ...kicks coke can)

458 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:09:25pm

re: #449 Aceofwhat?

boise they're the ones with the blue field right?
seeing that thing just makes me uncomfortable)

459 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:09:37pm

re: #453 Aceofwhat?

you're a few mediocre beers short of a good time!

Will be leaving here in two hours

In two hours and three minutes i'll have a beer in hand (sports bar around the block)

460 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:09:50pm

re: #444 Dark_Falcon

I'm voting for Brady because he has the best chance to actually fix things.


Well you do that, but I think that anybody who's proposal is "slash every line item by 10%" doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. If such a simplistic plan were ever actually implemented, it would lead to power shutdowns in hospitals, buildings burning to the ground without fire protection and all sorts of hell breaking loose. The fact is, there are some things (in fact, most things) that simply don't have a 10% margin you can just chop right out of it. Some of those things are more important than others.

461 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:10:03pm

re: #450 Floral Giraffe

I always think, if you don't VOTE, you don't get to criticize! If you vote, at least you TRIED!

Exactly. And if I can, I intend to give some money to Mark Kirk and Joel Pollack, the GOP candidates for Senate and Congress (for my district). I'm working especially hard this month to earn the extra money and support my guys. I want to get good men elected to Congress, and I get to vote for two of them this year. And that helps me vote for Brady as well, warts and all.

462 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:10:30pm

3 plays

One good one for Boise ,, One sucky one for Boise,, redeemed with the next one

463 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:10:34pm

re: #458 Boondock St. Bender

boise they're the ones with the blue field right?
seeing that thing just makes me uncomfortable)

yeah. one more reason to root against them!

464 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:10:58pm

re: #458 Boondock St. Bender

boise they're the ones with the blue field right?
seeing that thing just makes me uncomfortable)

do more drugs

465 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:11:41pm

re: #462 sattv4u2

3 plays

One good one for Boise ,, One sucky one for Boise,, redeemed with the next one

no spoilers...grrr...

466 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:12:02pm

He's almost at the top. He better hope there aren't any BART cops around.

//

467 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:12:05pm

re: #456 brookly red

Funny that... these days Vietnam is very pro American & itching to do business. Strange world, no?

They have less of a problem with us than they do with China. So Vietnam is doing the balance of power thing, using us to keep the Chinese respectful.

468 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:12:18pm

re: #460 elbruce

Well you do that, but I think that anybody who's proposal is "slash every line item by 10%" doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. If such a simplistic plan were ever actually implemented, it would lead to power shutdowns in hospitals, buildings burning to the ground without fire protection and all sorts of hell breaking loose. The fact is, there are some things (in fact, most things) that simply don't have a 10% margin you can just chop right out of it. Some of those things are more important than others.

Then again, some politicians spend all their time memorizing talking points with no intention (or understanding) of following through.

469 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:12:19pm

re: #463 Aceofwhat?

yeah. one more reason to root against them!

Yeah ,, but the VT uniforms are kinda ,,, weird too!

470 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:12:31pm

re: #160 brookly red

last I checked Gitmo is still open, my taxes are going up, we are still dependent on foreign oil, and health care is a mess. Please try again.

Really, which of your taxes has Obama raised?

And you really think he should be blamed for not ending 50 years of foreign oil dependence, when Congress won't even think about energy legislation?

Mindlessly partisan much?

471 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:13:20pm

re: #465 Aceofwhat?

no spoilers...grrr...

Sorry ,, it's live ,.,thought you were watching

Kick off (they stuffed the return0
1st down (pass interference when not needed)
next play (fumble recovery)

472 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:13:45pm

re: #460 elbruce

Well you do that, but I think that anybody who's proposal is "slash every line item by 10%" doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. If such a simplistic plan were ever actually implemented, it would lead to power shutdowns in hospitals, buildings burning to the ground without fire protection and all sorts of hell breaking loose. The fact is, there are some things (in fact, most things) that simply don't have a 10% margin you can just chop right out of it. Some of those things are more important than others.

That's absolutely correct.
I worked for state gov't.
And this is always how they try to cut the budget.
"We must do more with less!" is the battle cry.

And of course it doesn't work that way. There are programs that could be cut altogether, and they should be. There are programs that need more money to run effectively right now, and they should get it.

But woe be unto the legislator that tries to cut something somewhere in his district that's important to somebody important.

473 Gus  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:13:58pm

He's going for the final push.

474 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:14:02pm

re: #466 Gus 802

He's almost at the top. He better hope there aren't any BART cops around.

//

I'd make him climb his ass all the way back down

475 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:14:09pm

re: #461 Dark_Falcon

Hope the job is going well?

476 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:14:35pm

re: #470 palomino

Really, which of your taxes has Obama raised?

And you really think he should be blamed for not ending 50 years of foreign oil dependence, when Congress won't even think about energy legislation?

Mindlessly partisan much?

you bore me.

477 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:14:40pm

re: #466 Gus 802

He's almost at the top. He better hope there aren't any BART cops around.

//

What a nutter.
How long before someone freestyles the Burj Khalifa that's HALF A MILE TALL?

478 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:15:52pm

Later, Lizards.

479 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:16:00pm

re: #472 reine.de.tout

But woe be unto the legislator that tries to cut something somewhere in his district that's important to somebody important.


Have you ever noticed how all their stuff is shit and all our shit is stuff?

480 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:16:01pm

re: #474 sattv4u2

one kid with an air rifle could ruin that dudes day....

481 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:16:24pm

re: #171 brookly red

I can't deny that... nor can his approval numbers.

The approval numbers are based on a lousy economy, not failing to shut Gitmo or raising people's taxes (when he hasn't even actually done that). As for those numbers, they're still DOUBLE the numbers Bush had for the last three years of his presidency. What did that mean to you then?

You're sounding more and more like your thoughts and talking points come straight from Limbaugh's mouth.

482 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:16:47pm

re: #478 Floral Giraffe

Later, Lizards.

See ya, Floral. Glad to talk to you today.

483 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:16:49pm

re: #467 Dark_Falcon

They have less of a problem with us than they do with China. So Vietnam is doing the balance of power thing, using us to keep the Chinese respectful.

It goes both ways... the Dragon does not want a forward base on their lower east side. ;)

484 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:16:56pm

re: #479 jamesfirecat

Have you ever noticed how all their stuff is shit and all our shit is stuff?

eh?
LOL.
Sorry James, not following.

485 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:17:21pm

re: #481 palomino

The approval numbers are based on a lousy economy, not failing to shut Gitmo or raising people's taxes (when he hasn't even actually done that). As for those numbers, they're still DOUBLE the numbers Bush had for the last three years of his presidency. What did that mean to you then?

You're sounding more and more like your thoughts and talking points come straight from Limbaugh's mouth.

you really bore me.

486 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:17:30pm

re: #461 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. And if I can, I intend to give some money to Mark Kirk and Joel Pollack, the GOP candidates for Senate and Congress (for my district). I'm working especially hard this month to earn the extra money and support my guys. I want to get good men elected to Congress, and I get to vote for two of them this year. And that helps me vote for Brady as well, warts and all.

I can dig that. I get to vote for Senator Feingold again this year, and that's always a good thing. The Dem candidate for Gov isn't the best or worst - though he did get into a fist fight with a thug trying to protect a woman & child (got the crap beat out of himself too, but he stood up for them) - and he's miles better than either nutcase running in the GOP primary.

487 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:17:39pm

re: #479 jamesfirecat

Have you ever noticed how all their stuff is shit and all our shit is stuff?

George Carlin,, is that you?

488 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:17:40pm

re: #477 Varek Raith

What a nutter.
How long before someone freestyles the Burj Khalifa that's HALF A MILE TALL?

Not gonna happen. Dubai is a much worse place to tick off authority than San Francisco.

489 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:18:18pm

re: #471 sattv4u2

Sorry ,, it's live ,.,thought you were watching

Kick off (they stuffed the return0
1st down (pass interference when not needed)
next play (fumble recovery)

you tipped the fumble recovery before i saw it...

490 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:18:55pm

re: #488 Dark_Falcon

Not gonna happen. Dubai is a much worse place to tick off authority than San Francisco.

True but...

In May 2008, Hervé Le Gallou and an unnamed British man, dressed as engineers, illegally infiltrated Burj Khalifa (around 650 m at the time), and jumped off a balcony situated a couple of floors below the 160th floor.


Silly base jumpers.

491 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:18:55pm

re: #484 reine.de.tout

eh?
LOL.
Sorry James, not following.

Its a remark based upon your principle of everyone has their own pet projects and thus what seems meaningless and pointless to you may be deeply treasured by someone else.

492 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:18:57pm

re: #489 Aceofwhat?

you tipped the fumble recovery before i saw it...

Sowwy ,,,, I'll zip it!

493 abolitionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:19:31pm

re: #480 Boondock St. Bender

A pigeon could ruin his day, but let's not go there, ok?

494 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:20:04pm

re: #483 brookly red

It goes both ways... the Dragon does not want a forward base on their lower east side. ;)

They don't, its true. The problem there is that they have a much longer history with Vietnam than we do and much of it is not positive. Thus, unlike other nations further away, Vietnam is leery of Chinese investment, preferring Western investment instead.

495 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:20:09pm

re: #491 jamesfirecat

Its a remark based upon your principle of everyone has their own pet projects and thus what seems meaningless and pointless to you may be deeply treasured by someone else.

are you gonna eat that?

496 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:20:21pm

So... does this mean that Koran burners are un-patriotic and bordering on treasonous actions due to their un-American behavior?

Just sayin....

497 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:20:39pm

re: #492 sattv4u2

Sowwy ,,, I'll zip it!

VT's right guard is getting his ass whipped.

498 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:21:05pm

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

They don't, its true. The problem there is that they have a much longer history with Vietnam than we do and much of it is not positive. Thus, unlike other nations further away, Vietnam is leery of Chinese investment, preferring Western investment instead.

as does Korea (the south) and Japan...

499 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:21:21pm

re: #497 Aceofwhat?

VT's right guard is getting his ass whipped.

So far, Boise is making a case that it 'belongs" there

500 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:21:37pm

Hmmm... I don't like the looks of this....
Israeli army veterans in US train up for self-defense (with video)


While politicians are working on peace in the Middle East, a Jewish group in the US is preparing itself for the worst. Thinking they may be attacked, they train intensively in military skills and survival methods.

Three men are taking part in a military exercise similar to those in the Jewish state of Israel on American soil. However, they aren’t soldiers – they are Jewish American civilians.

Now they are part of Kitat Konenut New York – a non-political, non-partisan team of freedom-loving Jews and all Americans that teach preparedness against terrorism and natural disasters. The group encourages its members to become legally armed and express their second amendment rights.


Here's the group's blog
They are not training for home defense. They are preparing for open combat and some sort of delusional counter terrorism thing.
Anyone know more about these guys?

501 reine.de.tout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:21:37pm

re: #491 jamesfirecat

Its a remark based upon your principle of everyone has their own pet projects and thus what seems meaningless and pointless to you may be deeply treasured by someone else.

Ah.
Well, here for a long time the holy thing that could not be touched was driver's license offices.

Every podunk town had one, with at least two employees (plus office rental space, supplies, utilities, etc.).

Finally got some of these closed once they extended the time for photos (every 8 years instead of every 4 years), and put a lot of renewal stuff online. Before that though - no one dared suggest closing a driver's license office.

502 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:21:46pm

re: #486 wlewisiii

I can dig that. I get to vote for Senator Feingold again this year, and that's always a good thing. The Dem candidate for Gov isn't the best or worst - though he did get into a fist fight with a thug trying to protect a woman & child (got the crap beat out of himself too, but he stood up for them) - and he's miles better than either nutcase running in the GOP primary.

I'm not one of Feingold's fan. Is his opponent any good, in your eyes? I know you're not a conservative, but I still want to hear your view.

503 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:22:08pm

re: #499 sattv4u2

So far, Boise is making a case that it 'belongs" there

didn't think i'd see Beamer get a punt blocked...

504 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:22:21pm

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

didn't the chinese invade vietnam sometime in the eighties?

505 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:22:57pm

re: #503 Aceofwhat?

didn't think i'd see Beamer get a punt blocked...

I shocked how big AND quick Boise is this year

iirc,, last year ,,, Quick ,, Si ,,, Big ,, not so much

506 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:23:21pm

re: #500 Killgore Trout

Hmmm... I don't like the looks of this...
Israeli army veterans in US train up for self-defense (with video)


Here's the group's blog
They are not training for home defense. They are preparing for open combat and some sort of delusional counter terrorism thing.
Anyone know more about these guys?

Perhaps they're Kahaneists.

507 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:23:21pm

re: #470 palomino

Really, which of your taxes has Obama raised?

And you really think he should be blamed for not ending 50 years of foreign oil dependence, when Congress won't even think about energy legislation?

Mindlessly partisan much?

Obama (to voters): "Elect me and I'll do X!"

(Obama gets elected)

Obama (to Congress): "Let's do X!"

GOP: "NO!"

(GOP filibusters)

Wingnut: "Go GOP, stop that socialist!"

Wingnut (to lib): "Obama doesn't listen to the will of the people!"

Liberal: "He ran on doing X and got elected for it."

Wingnut: "Yeah, but he failed to do X!"

It really weirds me out how wingnuts on the one hand lambaste Obama's proposals and then lambaste him for failing to overcome their own opposition to his proposals. Closing Guantanamo Bay is the most obvious one I've seen this line of argumentation used on. All it tells me is that they don't actually care about the issue in question or else they'd either support his attempt to do something about it, or be glad that he failed to. But trying to blame him from both directions is clear evidence that they don't care about the issue at all; they only care about Obama.

Also, Obama has gotten a hell of a lot of those X's done in only 21 monts of Presidenting. He's still got over 2 years to go.

508 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:23:30pm

re: #505 sattv4u2

I shocked how big AND quick Boise is this year

iirc,, last year ,,, Quick ,, Si ,,, Big ,, not so much

wow...TD.

509 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:24:03pm

re: #508 Aceofwhat?

wow...TD.

wide open

510 jaunte  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:24:59pm

re: #496 BigPapa

So... does this mean that Koran burners are un-patriotic and bordering on treasonous actions due to their un-American behavior?

Just sayin...

Just means they value their own pointless wank over what our military commanders over in Afghanistan would prefer.

511 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:25:05pm

re: #476 brookly red

you bore me.

re: #485 brookly red

you really bore me.

These aren't even arguments, much less substantive comments of any kind.

512 brookly red  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:25:48pm

re: #511 elbruce

re: #485 brookly red

These aren't even arguments, much less substantive comments of any kind.

your for a change.

513 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:26:15pm

re: #508 Aceofwhat?
And in case you're missing it and/or care

Womens US open

Zvonareva 6,,, 5
Petrovic , 1,,,2 ,, (serving)

514 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:27:12pm

re: #485 brookly red

you really bore me.

You've really got nothing, except maybe some inarticulately expressed anger and snark. You don't even bother responding when challenged on the talking points you dutifully recite from Limbaugh, because you've got no facts to back you up.

Red, you're a partisan tool. Enjoy November because your party can't win long term--the gop has a demographic time bomb looming as they play to a shrinking base, they alienate every growing minority group.

515 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:27:28pm

re: #513 sattv4u2

And in case you're missing it and/or care

Womens US open

Zvonareva 6,,, 5
Petrovic , 1,,,2 ,, (serving)

am following...i pause the game and switch to the match, then pause the match and switch back.

dual tuner dvr = honey for the sports-lover's soul...

516 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:27:32pm

re: #506 Dark_Falcon

Perhaps they're Kahaneists.

Maybe. I can't tell. Here's their list of "threats"
Most of the Muslim groups are in the middle east. I'm not sure if Code Pink and ISM really belong on that list with the KKK and Al Qaeda.
They seem a little nutty to me.

517 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:27:49pm

re: #515 Aceofwhat?

am following...i pause the game and switch to the match, then pause the match and switch back.

dual tuner dvr = honey for the sports-lover's soul...

:)

518 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:29:29pm

re: #456 brookly red

Funny that... these days Vietnam is very pro American & itching to do business. Strange world, no?

Yeah, the Vietnam War was well worth it. A huge success, particularly in moral terms (not that that would have necessarily crossed your mind).

519 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:29:54pm

re: #504 Boondock St. Bender

didn't the chinese invade vietnam sometime in the eighties?

1979, to be exact. The Chinese did not do well in that war. The Vietnamese army was battle hardened, while the Chinese army had not fought a major war since Korea. Moreover, its troops were local forces from the south, not the better troops who were on the Soviet border. The war ultimately ended indecisively, but Vietnam has not forgotten it.

520 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:30:32pm

re: #517 sattv4u2

:)

Wozniacki was brilliant against Sharapova...perfect strategy. she was a wall.

521 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:30:43pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

Maybe. I can't tell. Here's their list of "threats"
Most of the Muslim groups are in the middle east. I'm not sure if Code Pink and ISM really belong on that list with the KKK and Al Qaeda.
They seem a little nutty to me.

Good Lord, now I'm picturing some psycho PTSD'd out Israeli Army vet going all Krav Maga on some poor batty old Code Pink lady for dressing like the Statue of Liberty...

522 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:31:29pm

re: #515 Aceofwhat?

am following...i pause the game and switch to the match, then pause the match and switch back.

dual tuner dvr = honey for the sports-lover's soul...

105 color monitor control room,,

Brain Candy!!

523 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:33:29pm

re: #520 Aceofwhat?

Wozniacki was brilliant against Sharapova...perfect strategy. she was a wall.

Andy Murray fell today

524 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:33:34pm

re: #522 sattv4u2

105 color monitor control room,,

Brain Candy!!

i've certainly heard of worse jobs than yours...

525 ErikJ76  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:34:23pm

re: #410 elbruce

WTF? You're saying that the Democrats could give up because they're going to fail anyway and they get nothing out of the deal either way? Although I commend you for thinking like a mainstream Democratic strategist ("they might win so let's give up!"), it's not an apt comparison.

Lieberman explicitly promised to caucus with the Democrats, which was a large part of why CT let him win anyway. Crist won't. The only reason they should drop Meek is if they got a similar promise from Crist, and he doesn't have any reason to promise that anyway.

I didn't say that they wouldn't get nothing, unless you think it won't matter if Crist or Rubio gets elected. I do. Rubio will most likely vote a lot more in step with the republicans than Crist, even if Crist ends up caucusing with the republicans. Crist might win, end up cutting a deal with the GOP, and caucusing with them, but that would still be a lot better for the democrats than Rubio getting elected. Unless the democrats believe that Rubio will end up being a lot easier to defeat in 2016.
I'm guessing a lot of democratic strategists would like anything that stops Rubio's plans to reach even higher, even for just a while.

Anyway, I doubt Meek is a prioritized candidate for the democrats.

526 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:34:49pm

re: #362 tradewind

You can get a puppy. There are lots of them, waiting for homes. I meant just don't buy one and contribute to the backyard breeders.
/preaching off/

Missouri is the puppy mill capital:[Link: animals.change.org...]
*sad face*

527 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:35:10pm

re: #523 sattv4u2

Andy Murray fell today

yeah, i didn't see that one coming at all. Wawrinka isn't known as a giant-killer.

528 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:36:20pm

re: #524 Aceofwhat?

i've certainly heard of worse jobs than yours...

Yeah ,, it's pretty neat what/ how we do. But it's also very stressful at times

"but it's "only" TV"

heh ,, tell that to a screaming producer who has a couple of hundred affiliates calling him about audio/ video quality or an advertiser whose commercial was clipped

529 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:36:57pm

re: #525 ErikJ76

I didn't say that they wouldn't get nothing, unless you think it won't matter if Crist or Rubio gets elected. I do. Rubio will most likely vote a lot more in step with the republicans than Crist, even if Crist ends up caucusing with the republicans. Crist might win, end up cutting a deal with the GOP, and caucusing with them, but that would still be a lot better for the democrats than Rubio getting elected. Unless the democrats believe that Rubio will end up being a lot easier to defeat in 2016.
I'm guessing a lot of democratic strategists would like anything that stops Rubio's plans to reach even higher, even for just a while.

Anyway, I doubt Meek is a prioritized candidate for the democrats.

Agreed. The Dems would be better off running ads against Meek. Crist would be far better than Rubio for the Dems, and Meek's got no chance unless Crist and Rubio both get caught up in sex scandals in the next 8 weeks.

530 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:37:28pm

re: #528 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, it's pretty neat what/ how we do. But it's also very stressful at times

"but it's "only" TV"

heh ,, tell that to a screaming producer who has a couple of hundred affiliates calling him about audio/ video quality or an advertiser whose commercial was clipped

he's right...don't botch the games, man!!!

531 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:38:41pm

re: #518 palomino

That wasn't what Brookly said or meant.

532 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:40:06pm

re: #530 Aceofwhat?

he's right...don't botch the games, man!!!

hehe .,, like tonght

Every Monday night we "send' WWE Monday Night Raw to half a dozen countries in Europe and another dozen in Central/ South America. All have to check in to ensure they are
A) getting it
and
B) getting the correct audio configurations

533 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:41:03pm

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

That wasn't what Brookly said or meant.

But if I can't twist what you said, how can I 'win" !?!?

534 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:41:04pm

re: #531 Dark_Falcon

That wasn't what Brookly said or meant.

Maybe I don't take him that seriously. When politely challenged on matters of both fact and opinion, his response is "you bore me." So maybe I gave him less than the benefit of the doubt on this one.

535 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:42:31pm

re: #529 palomino

Agreed. The Dems would be better off running ads against Meek. Crist would be far better than Rubio for the Dems

Meh, they can just focus some negative advertising on Rubio and decline to throw much money Meek's way. I have kind of a problem with the notion of political parties actively working against their own candidates as any kind of viable strategy. In the long run it makes people wonder why they should ever vote for your party at all.


re: #529 palomino

and Meek's got no chance unless Crist and Rubio both get caught up in sex scandals in the next 8 weeks.

Don't misunderestimate them.

536 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:42:42pm

re: #530 Aceofwhat?

re: #532 sattv4u2

hehe .,, like tonght

Every Monday night we "send' WWE Monday Night Raw to half a dozen countries in Europe and another dozen in Central/ South America. All have to check in to ensure they are
A) getting it
and
B) getting the correct audio configurations

Not to mention checking of they are getting it in PAL , NTSC ,, HD ,, SD,,, 4x3,,, 16x9 ,,, cropped ,,anamorphic ,,,

yeeesshhh

537 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:43:19pm

alrighty, going to log off and revel in the game. laters, all

538 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:43:34pm

re: #537 Aceofwhat?

alrighty, going to log off and revel in the game. laters, all

Cya Ace

and thanks

539 palomino  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:45:07pm

re: #535 elbruce

Meh, they can just focus some negative advertising on Rubio and decline to throw much money Meek's way. I have kind of a problem with the notion of political parties actively working against their own candidates as any kind of viable strategy. In the long run it makes people wonder why they should ever vote for your party at all.

re: #529 palomino

Don't misunderestimate them.

I was just being sarcastic about ads against Meek. Even if it did help, running such ads would show total disloyalty to the guy who won your party's nod. That would be really low, even for a political party.

540 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:45:35pm

re: #502 Dark_Falcon

I'm not one of Feingold's fan. Is his opponent any good, in your eyes? I know you're not a conservative, but I still want to hear your view.

There are three political unknowns in the GOP primary, one with lots of his own money to spend. None are as obviously bad as the last GOP candidate against him who like to embellish his military record, but since I'm a very much a Feingold fan I honestly haven't paid that much attention. He voted against the so-called Patriot act and he voted to let the Assault Weapon ban sunset because it was a bad law. Those two alone would be enough reason for me to vote for him.

541 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:45:46pm

Okay

Either Boise State is a LOT better than I thought they would be

OR Virginia Tech isn't nearly as good as I thought they would be!

542 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:47:06pm

re: #413 Boondock St. Bender

you don't burn battlefield earth.(well unless you're cold)you just throw it in the trash.

For shame...it goes in the recycling bin. It's a paper product, after all.

543 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:50:42pm

re: #540 wlewisiii

There are three political unknowns in the GOP primary, one with lots of his own money to spend. None are as obviously bad as the last GOP candidate against him who like to embellish his military record, but since I'm a very much a Feingold fan I honestly haven't paid that much attention. He voted against the so-called Patriot act and he voted to let the Assault Weapon ban sunset because it was a bad law. Those two alone would be enough reason for me to vote for him.

Well, I favor the Patriot Act (please, let's not argue about it), but I'm glad Feingold let the ban sunset. He's still liberal, though, and I'd tend to vote against him. But I don't doubt he's an honorable and decent man who can be voted for without embarrassment.

544 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:51:31pm

re: #519 Dark_Falcon

1979, to be exact. The Chinese did not do well in that war. The Vietnamese army was battle hardened, while the Chinese army had not fought a major war since Korea. Moreover, its troops were local forces from the south, not the better troops who were on the Soviet border. The war ultimately ended indecisively, but Vietnam has not forgotten it.

Many of the troops that fought the '79 war were vets of the liberation of Cambodia (yes, in this case, a communist army were liberators) and the Khemer Rouge were a Chinese client state. The Vietnamese have not forgotten what they found in Phnom Penh either...

A vet of both was one of the people working with our adoption agency in 2002. Very interesting comparing military experiences...

545 Lidane  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:53:21pm

Honestly? This goes much farther than just harming the troops. They're just the most visible targets that will be harmed by any Qur'an burnings. EVERY American overseas, especially if they're in the Middle East, will become the target for fanatics if even a single video or image of these lunatics burning anything gets out.

They're basically doing Al Qaeda's recruitment for them, and they're hurting this country. It's insane to me that they can't or won't see it at all.

546 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:53:49pm

re: #502 Dark_Falcon

I'm not one of Feingold's fan. Is his opponent any good, in your eyes? I know you're not a conservative, but I still want to hear your view.

Ron Johnson is running against Feingold. He's a climate change denier but somehow believes that sunspots are to blame. He also thinks tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs.

547 boxhead  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:56:00pm

re: #1 brookly red

*sigh*

Your expression is how I feel WAY too often as I observe the tactics of the loony Right. And if polls are to be believed, their madness seems to be working. *double SIGH*

548 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:56:21pm

re: #543 Dark_Falcon

Well, I favor the Patriot Act (please, let's not argue about it)

That's like me saying "I favor raping babies (please, let's not argue about it)."

It's one thing to openly support the complete dismantling of everything that the U.S.A. was created to stand for. But demanding to be able to do that and then whining about getting any blowback for it is... Palin-esque, to say the least.

549 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 5:59:07pm

re: #545 Lidane

They're basically doing Al Qaeda's recruitment for them, and they're hurting this country. It's insane to me that they can't or won't see it at all.

What makes you think they don't? People like this want both sides of the world driven towards extremists and to foster open war on a massive global scale. Dove World Outreach and Al Qaeda are in complete agreement with each other on that.

550 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:04:33pm

re: #544 wlewisiii

Many of the troops that fought the '79 war were vets of the liberation of Cambodia (yes, in this case, a communist army were liberators) and the Khemer Rouge were a Chinese client state. The Vietnamese have not forgotten what they found in Phnom Penh either...

A vet of both was one of the people working with our adoption agency in 2002. Very interesting comparing military experiences...

What did you learn?

551 ErikJ76  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:07:15pm

re: #535 elbruce

Meh, they can just focus some negative advertising on Rubio and decline to throw much money Meek's way. I have kind of a problem with the notion of political parties actively working against their own candidates as any kind of viable strategy.

I'd really not be in favor of actually working against Meek. But then what I suggest probably could be seen as that even if it wouldn't be as obvious as running ads against him (something palomino was sarcastic about).

One more thing, if Crist cuts a deal with GOP about caucusing, what do you think the reaction would be from those who hate Crist and really like Rubio? That the establishment GOP is cutting deals with the guy who refused to respect the republican primary and give up, and then defeated their hero, who should have won.

(Maybe I should get that job as an mainstream Democratic strategist?)

552 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:12:04pm

re: #550 Dark_Falcon

What did you learn?

A soldiers life is a dog's life everywhere in the world. Sometimes you're a pampered retriever but your still just a dog in the end.

Seriously, that's a lot of it. When you're down to the level of individual soldiers, it's always more about surviving and keeping your buddies alive than about ideology. And some of his tales were rather too like some stories I've read over the years about what people found Germany at the end of the war.

553 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:12:39pm

PIMF your should be you're

554 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:15:12pm

Here's a neat venn diagram I found that I think more anti-Islam types should stare at for a while before they get it:

Image: 34474_540.jpg

555 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:16:34pm

re: #552 wlewisiii

A soldiers life is a dog's life everywhere in the world. Sometimes you're a pampered retriever but your still just a dog in the end.

Seriously, that's a lot of it. When you're down to the level of individual soldiers, it's always more about surviving and keeping your buddies alive than about ideology. And some of his tales were rather too like some stories I've read over the years about what people found Germany at the end of the war.

Thank you for sharing that.

556 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:17:26pm

re: #553 wlewisiii

PIMF your should be you're

Eh, don't worry about it. The error let me upding you twice.

557 ErikJ76  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 6:35:49pm

re: #554 elbruce

Most likely they will just yap on about the massive possibility for recruitment.

558 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 7:28:01pm

re: #496 BigPapa

So... does this mean that Koran burners are un-patriotic and bordering on treasonous actions due to their un-American behavior?

Just sayin...

No, treason is clearly defined, and they're nowhere near it. They're just assholes without very much consideration for other people's feelings or outreach activities.

559 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 7:31:10pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

Maybe. I can't tell. Here's their list of "threats"
Most of the Muslim groups are in the middle east. I'm not sure if Code Pink and ISM really belong on that list with the KKK and Al Qaeda.
They seem a little nutty to me.

Jameel at The Muqata is not impressed.

I sometimes disagree with Jameel, but I think he's dead-on with this one.

560 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 7:32:16pm

re: #521 elbruce

Good Lord, now I'm picturing some psycho PTSD'd out Israeli Army vet going all Krav Maga on some poor batty old Code Pink lady for dressing like the Statue of Liberty...

I don't say that they sound stable, but I seriously doubt that the majority, or even a minority of them are IDF vets, or have ever seen combat if they are.

561 Pythagoras  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 8:40:52pm

re: #44 captdiggs

I agree, it probably does elevate the risks for our service personnel.
Then again, even a rumor of a Koran touching a toilet halfway around the world, as well as some cartoons, tends to send many in the Islamic world into frenzy.
Not to mention that they probably keep some Chinese manufacturers of US flags in the black with all the US flags they burn.

And no, I don't agree with this little book burning stunt.

If the reaction to the Newsweek story about the Koran flushing is any indication, this book burning stunt will kill a LOT of people.

It is THE dumbest PR stunt EVER. Their church may end up obliterated. While that's horribly sad, I would still have an "I told you so" feeling about it.

562 elbruce  Mon, Sep 6, 2010 10:17:55pm

re: #561 Pythagoras

It is THE dumbest PR stunt EVER. Their church may end up obliterated. While that's horribly sad, I would still have an "I told you so" feeling about it.

I certainly hope nothing happens to their facility or membership. That said, calling them a "church" is being too generous IMO. They're a hate group, nothing more.

563 ihateronpaul  Tue, Sep 7, 2010 3:00:33pm

The logic of this argument will not penetrate their thick skulls, sorry guys.


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