Turkish Journalist Who Took Cropped Photos Tied to IHH

Middle East • Views: 9,052

Robert Mackey at the New York Times Lede blog has identified the person who took the photos that were cropped by Reuters as Turkish journalist Adem Ozkose: Photographs of Battered Israeli Commandos Show New Side of Raid.

Mackey fails to note, however, that Turkish journalist Adem Ozkose is hardly what one would call a neutral observer. At the website of the Islamist group that organized the flotilla, IHH, we find an article apparently posted before the boarding incident: Palestine Is Waiting For Your Help.

Adem Ozkose, another speaker at the panel, works as a reporter for Gercek Hayat Dergisi, said that a frontier of Gaza conflict is named Istanbul, adding “Palestinians named the flotilla ‘Noah’s ark’. I hope that, God willing, despite all the Israeli efforts to stop the campaign, the flotilla carrying humanitarian aid and volunteers to Gaza will reach its destination and that route will never get closed again.

Also stating that they will never give up against the potential obstructions and attacks by Israel, Ozkose said “Palestinians are waiting forward to arrival of those ships from Turkey. The aid delivered by the people from Turkey exceeds the aid coming from the UN and the arrival of the flotilla will declare to the world that the embargo is over and a passage will be opened up for the people of Gaza.”

Jump to bottom

1105 comments
1 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:20:32pm

Wow, excellent scoop Charles. Stick it to them!

2 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:26:05pm

busted...
BO should ask Erdogan for an explanation

3 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:27:10pm

I found Harun Yahya quoting an article by Ozkose, but failed to find more connection there. Scroll down to box number 156.

Let us now forget the Israelis and consider what our Arab brothers think about the rapprochement between Turkey and Syria...
Adem Ozkose, who puts his fingers of the pulse of the Islamic community with his interviews in Gercek Hayat magazine, spoke this week with the famous writer Ayman Khalid from Kuds al-Arabi, one of the Arab world’s most prestigious newspapers.

A passage from the interview:

OZKOSE- Certain Turkish activists and writers have said that the border between Turkey and Syria should be lifted and that such a move will constitute the kernel of an Islamic Union. What does the Arab world think of that idea?

KHALID- We support the idea with all our hearts. The statesmen who make this idea a reality will go down in history. There are in any case no borders in the minds of the Turkish and Syrian peoples.

[...]

(Gercek Hayat, 24-30 April 2009)

4 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:28:56pm

re: #3 wrenchwench

nice catch...looks like Turkey has some internal problems

5 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:31:19pm

re: #4 albusteve

nice catch...looks like Turkey has some internal problems

buncha frikin turkeys...

6 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:31:57pm

"Noah's Ark"?

"And thou shalt take two of every kind of weapon, male and female, and load them into the Ark: the knife and its sheath, the gun and its holster, the metal pipe and its socket, the ceremonial Yemeni dagger and its scabbard; two by two shall they enter the Ark, against the day when thou bringest peace unto Gaza."

--from the lost chapters of Genesis

7 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:32:06pm

re: #2 albusteve

busted...
BO should ask Erdogan for an explanation

and or 400 million back...

8 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:33:06pm

re: #3 wrenchwench

I found Harun Yahya quoting an article by Ozkose, but failed to find more connection there. Scroll down to box number 156.

Turkry can say bye bye EU and Schengen Agreement open borders in Europe.

9 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:34:26pm

expect to hear 'amalgamate' often, soon...extrapolate this....the ME becomes a giant panIslamic radical theocracy represented in big ass chunks...Turkeypan, Iranipan....PaKghanipan...the Big Three, Egypt and the Sudan will sit and quake on our dime

10 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:34:36pm

re: #4 albusteve

nice catch...looks like Turkey has some internal problems

Lots of problems.

See Talking Turkey About Turkey

11 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:36:00pm

re: #7 brookly red

and or 400 million back...

chump change...does congress have to approve that money, or does it just appear out of another budget?

12 Liberal Classic  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:37:08pm

This is the reason I corroborate my news with the blogsphere. It isn't that journalistic integrity doesn't exist at all, it does. What it makes possible is to identify conflicts of interest, such as this. Great article, thanks for posting it.

13 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:39:20pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

"Noah's Ark"?

"And thou shalt take two of every kind of weapon, male and female, and load them into the Ark: the knife and its sheath, the gun and its holster, the metal pipe and its socket, the ceremonial Yemeni dagger and its scabbard; two by two shall they enter the Ark, against the day when thou bringest peace unto Gaza."

--from the lost chapters of Genesis The Holy Quran

ftfy

14 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:40:07pm

re: #6 Cato the Elder

"Noah's Ark"?

"And thou shalt take two of every kind of weapon, male and female, and load them into the Ark: the knife and its sheath, the gun and its holster, the metal pipe and its socket, the ceremonial Yemeni dagger and its scabbard; two by two shall they enter the Ark, against the day when thou bringest peace unto Gaza."

--from the lost chapters of Genesis

You've been doing Bible Study with the Discovery Institute again, I see.

///

15 KDS1  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:40:18pm

re: #4 albusteve

nice catch...looks like Turkey has some internal problems

yeah, and someone should make sure they have some international problems after their support of those terrorists

16 Bear  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:42:32pm

OT
Perhaps this has been posted earlier but sounds as if there is a problem with the new iPod-AT&T units. [Link: www.gawker.com...]

17 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:43:13pm

re: #16 Bear

OT
Perhaps this has been posted earlier but sounds as if there is a problem with the new iPod-AT&T units. [Link: www.gawker.com...]

That's not a problem, it's a feature.

18 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:44:16pm

re: #12 Liberal Classic

This is the reason I corroborate my news with the blogsphere. It isn't that journalistic integrity doesn't exist at all, it does. What it makes possible is to identify conflicts of interest, such as this. Great article, thanks for posting it.

Charles, KT, and Associates
have put the screw on a bunch of people in one fell swoop ambush....2000k hits and Reuters and the Turks still really don't know what hit them...the MSM doesn't know what to say because everybody is selling out on this one...but they know they've been had, out classed...I love it....D Rather is how I found LGF...there are people here that just kick ass, never sleep and there are plenty of targets

19 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:46:42pm

re: #11 albusteve

chump change...does congress have to approve that money, or does it just appear out of another budget?

stimulus...

20 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:48:23pm

re: #19 brookly red

stimulus...

is that a question?

21 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:51:38pm

re: #20 albusteve

is that a question?

did you see a question mark?

the money is supposed to go for the creation of jobs...

sure wish I had one, hope & change. Yes that was a direct Obama slam.

22 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:51:49pm

re: #8 researchok

Turkry can say bye bye EU and Schengen Agreement open borders in Europe.

Yeah, I think that was part of the plan. IHH and Islamist political parties wanted to cause problems with the EU, US and Israel. This was mostly about internal Turkish politics.

23 ryannon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:54:08pm

re: #8 researchok

Turkry can say bye bye EU and Schengen Agreement open borders in Europe.

They already have. Which explains many of the current moves.

24 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:57:06pm

re: #16 Bear

OT
Perhaps this has been posted earlier but sounds as if there is a problem with the new iPod-AT&T units. [Link: www.gawker.com...]

You mean iPad? Big difference.

25 Bear  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:58:16pm

re: #24 Boogberg

Guess so. Don't have any though.

26 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:58:43pm

OK now that is 400 million in addition to the 500 million given a few months ago... yet I, a natural born citizen do not have a job, just 2 degrees one of which I am still paying for. 400 million more for the Palis but my unemployment is expired... OK it's all good no problem sure I will vote D November.

not so much.

27 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 4:58:51pm

re: #7 brookly red

and or 400 million back...

No matter how you feel about the aid, Obama is just continuing previous aid policies:

'Taken together, the announcements underscore how little the Obama Administration's policy towards the Palestinian issue has so far differed from the Bush administration's."

aid.

28 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:00:10pm

re: #27 avanti

No matter how you feel about the aid, Obama is just continuing previous aid policies:

'Taken together, the announcements underscore how little the Obama Administration's policy towards the Palestinian issue has so far differed from the Bush administration's."

aid.

Bush? who is that I can't remember him & neither can my landlord.

29 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:02:11pm

re: #21 brookly red

sure wish I had one, hope & change. Yes that was a direct Obama slam.

"I tried to stand up and fly straight, but it wasn't easy with that sumbitch Reagan in the Whitehouse."

30 Eagle  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:02:36pm

This story has legs.

Great find, great find...

Such a great example of why the blogosphere is indispensable for news.

31 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:02:54pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

"I tried to stand up and fly straight, but it wasn't easy with that sumbitch Reagan in the Whitehouse."

and that matters here and now because?

32 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:03:27pm

OT: Ludwig, this article is for you:

Attack on climate scientist just latest in a long line

33 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:05:54pm

re: #27 avanti

No matter how you feel about the aid, Obama is just continuing previous aid policies:

'Taken together, the announcements underscore how little the Obama Administration's policy towards the Palestinian issue has so far differed from the Bush administration's."

aid.

We shouldn't be giving aid to Hamas. It's insane. We don't give to Cuba's people or Iran's people. What the hell?

What do you think, they're going to give this money to them to build schools and homes and those things were really get built? Or if they get built, they'll be used for schools and homes?

Horrible, horrible, when our own people are still suffering.

34 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:07:38pm

400 million to the Palis for a failed attempt to take hostages... not even ransom, just giving up our lunch money so the bully don't hurt us. This is a disgrace, a national fucking disgrace. Anyone care to defend it?

35 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:09:46pm

re: #26 brookly red

OK now that is 400 million in addition to the 500 million given a few months ago... yet I, a natural born citizen do not have a job, just 2 degrees one of which I am still paying for. 400 million more for the Palis but my unemployment is expired... OK it's all good no problem sure I will vote D November.

not so much.

The term "Palis" is considered to be a slur in PC circles. Just sayin'.

36 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:10:00pm

re: #31 brookly red

and that matters here and now because?

Slamming the President for difficulty finding work doesn't sound very boot-strappy.

37 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:10:26pm

re: #35 Boogberg

The term "Palis" is considered to be a slur in PC circles. Just sayin'.

kiss my grits.

38 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:10:37pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

OT: Ludwig, this article is for you:

Attack on climate scientist just latest in a long line

The immediate trigger for the letter Virginia State Attorney General Kenneth T. Cuccinelli's recent demand that climate scientist Michael Mann, director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State University, produce a large volume of paperwork related to his scientific research and communications with fellow scientists during his years at University of Virginia from 1999 to 2005. "McCarthyite" is how the scientists characterize Cuccinelli's action, filed under the state's Fraud Against Taxpayers Act.

...

In 1995, a group called Global Climate Coalition, composed of the American Petroleum Institute and a host of fossil-fuel dependent corporations, attacked Benjamin Santer, a scientist at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory who had done key work demonstrating the human "fingerprint" on climate

...

Perhaps no scientific name is more associated with global warming than Roger Revelle, mentor to Al Gore, who first warned of the risks of human-caused climate change in the 1950s. In 1992, a paper was released that claimed Revelle had changed his mind about global warming and no longer believed it was a problem. The claim was repeated many times in the mass media, including The New Republic and The Washington Post.
Revelle was elderly and seriously ill at the time, and died before he had a chance to respond. His graduate student, Justin Lancaster, tried to set the record straight by publicly disputing the claim. He was soon sued by the author of the claim, and lacking funds to defend himself, was forced to settle out of court, leaving his personal and professional life in tatters.

...

And then we can talk about the vilification of Hansen or the attempts of the Bush administration to quash NASA GISS. And then we can talk about the Marshall institute and the massive media campaign of misinformation.

There actually is a conspiracy out there to distort the facts about AGW. It is well funded and well organized. It is the right wing doing it.

39 philosophus invidius  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:11:20pm

I wonder what that "journalist" was planning on doing with those photos once the boat arrived in Gaza with their hostages.

40 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:12:26pm

re: #36 goddamnedfrank

Slamming the President for difficulty finding work doesn't sound very boot-strappy.

no Sir, I am slamming the president for giving money to terrorists when Americans are hurting... so again my grits, kiss em.

41 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:12:47pm

re: #21 brookly red

did you see a question mark?

the money is supposed to go for the creation of jobs...

sure wish I had one, hope & change. Yes that was a direct Obama slam.

I had to step out...go down to the oasis for water and figs...

BO deserves to be slammed, along with congress...my question is why are we buying into Hamas?....something tells me it's actually illegal

42 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:12:51pm

re: #34 brookly red

400 million to the Palis for a failed attempt to take hostages... not even ransom, just giving up our lunch money so the bully don't hurt us. This is a disgrace, a national fucking disgrace. Anyone care to defend it?

Not me!

Doesn't Congress have to pass it though?

43 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:13:21pm

re: #39 philosophus invidius

I wonder what that "journalist" was planning on doing with those photos once the boat arrived in Gaza with their hostages.

We all know the answer to that.

What I still can not believe is that we have not brought Gilad Shalit home.

If they think Israel supplies them with nothing, then Israel should actually supply them with nothing. No food shipments, water or sewage works or electricity until he is released. I imagine one week of living in their own shit - in the dark- would set things right.

44 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:14:27pm

I'm trying to rank stories on LGF. Dan Rather is still a distant first place, but, only from a Historical perspective.

This, I think is bigger; but didn't make LGF... well, LGF.

But, it's number two in my book.

What's number three?

KT? Charles?

Damn I don't deserve to be here. But, I'll keep on hangin' out; if it's all the same to you.

45 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:14:33pm

re: #35 Boogberg

The term "Palis" is considered to be a slur in PC circles. Just sayin'.

what if I said I made it up as a shortcut?

46 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:15:01pm

re: #42 marjoriemoon

Not me!

Doesn't Congress have to pass it though?

stimulus, unspent billions at the whim of the executive...

47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:15:11pm

re: #43 LudwigVanQuixote

But, that would be mean.
/

48 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:15:42pm

re: #42 marjoriemoon

Not me!

Doesn't Congress have to pass it though?

who's on first?

49 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:15:59pm

re: #46 brookly red

stimulus, unspent billions at the whim of the executive...

I don't understand.

50 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:17:14pm

re: #38 LudwigVanQuixote

...

And then we can talk about the vilification of Hansen or the attempts of the Bush administration to quash NASA GISS. And then we can talk about the Marshall institute and the massive media campaign of misinformation.

There actually is a conspiracy out there to distort the facts about AGW. It is well funded and well organized. It is the right wing doing it.

I agree with you, at least in the main. That's why I brought it to your attention.

51 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:17:25pm

re: #47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But, that would be mean.
/

Really, they are in a state of war with Israel. Mean would be bombing them into submission the way the US would do it.

52 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:17:45pm

re: #49 marjoriemoon

I don't understand.

let us just say congress does not need to approve.

53 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:17:59pm

re: #45 albusteve

what if I said I made it up as a shortcut?

Well I don't personally have a problem with the term. But some people do.

54 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:18:13pm

re: #46 brookly red

stimulus, unspent billions at the whim of the executive...

and people wonder why I don't like BO...for that I've been called a racist and suffer BDS....ahahaha!....what a cool blog!

55 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:18:17pm

Oh and DF our buddy Larry is planning or writing about electricity some more at PJM...

56 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:18:41pm

re: #53 Boogberg

Well I don't personally have a problem with the term. But some people do.

And I should care about those people because...?

57 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:19:27pm

re: #44 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm trying to rank stories on LGF. Dan Rather is still a distant first place, but, only from a Historical perspective.

This, I think is bigger; but didn't make LGF... well, LGF.

But, it's number two in my book.

What's number three?

KT? Charles?

Damn I don't deserve to be here. But, I'll keep on hangin' out; if it's all the same to you.

Lebanese fauxtography?

58 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:19:49pm

re: #40 brookly red

no Sir, I am slamming the president for giving money to terrorists when Americans are hurting... so again my grits, kiss em.

In other words, you'd rather hold him personally responsible for decades of established US mideast foreign policy than acknowledge the adult level complexity of the real world. Also, the President doesn't appropriate money, Congress does that.

59 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:19:59pm

re: #20 albusteve

re: #21 brookly red

Stimulus? Jobs?

I'm an architect. Right now I am driving trucks for the local food bank for $12/hr.

If I'm not designing buildings, construction crews are not working.

Keep your eyes open for concrete trucks, you won't see very many.

Most buildings start with concrete pours for the foundation.

The financial and political elite of this country are weighed, weighed and found wanting, dogs in the manger that they are.

And to steal a man's livelihood, is a slow murder.

60 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:20:16pm

re: #53 Boogberg

Well I don't personally have a problem with the term. But some people do.

the printed word is not derogatory to me....as for others, I don't care

61 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:20:31pm

re: #33 marjoriemoon

We shouldn't be giving aid to Hamas. It's insane. We don't give to Cuba's people or Iran's people. What the hell?

What do you think, they're going to give this money to them to build schools and homes and those things were really get built? Or if they get built, they'll be used for schools and homes?

Horrible, horrible, when our own people are still suffering.

Recent administrations have tried to funnel the aid away from Hamas, we don't just write a check. I'm not saying they don't hijack food aid for example and sell it, it could be a problem.

They also play politics with aid, support Hamas, or get nothing:

"People who are not in with Hamas don't see any of the relief goods or the gifts of money," Khadar says. On the sand dune where his house once perched, there is now an emergency shelter. The shelter is made of concrete blocks that Khadar dug from the rubble, and the roof is the canvas of a tent that provided the family with shelter for the first summer after the war. "Hamas supporters get prefabricated housing, furnishings and paid work. We get nothing," Khadar complains.

Hamas Members Take and Distribute 'at Their Own Discretion'

The reason his family receives nothing: Like many of his neighbors, Khadar is a die-hard supporter of the Fatah party, the sworn political enemy of the more radical Islamists in Hamas.

62 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:21:10pm

re: #56 Alouette

And I should care about those people because...?

Charles might.

63 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:21:16pm

re: #54 albusteve

and people wonder why I don't like BO...for that I've been called a racist and suffer BDS...ahahaha!...what a cool blog!

well here it is, right out in the open he is giving money we don't have to people who hate us while we are suffering here at home and I don't see anyone offering a good defense... how could that be?

64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:21:41pm

re: #57 wrenchwench

Oh, that was big. But, folks came clean pretty quick...

65 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:21:50pm

re: #62 Boogberg

Charles might.

That's all that counts here.

66 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:22:15pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

In other words, you'd rather hold him personally responsible for decades of established US mideast foreign policy than acknowledge the adult level complexity of the real world. Also, the President doesn't appropriate money, Congress does that.

so let me ask you this, should we be giving them 400 million yes or no?

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:22:46pm

re: #59 Ojoe

Gosh, I'd love to meet you. You're so damn... well? Meetable.

68 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:23:08pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

In other words, you'd rather hold him personally responsible for decades of established US mideast foreign policy than acknowledge the adult level complexity of the real world. Also, the President doesn't appropriate money, Congress does that.

no, just for the 400mil....it's a here and now thing....he's a huge disappointment on this one....he's paying blood money, somebody in that loot is gonna end up dead

69 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:23:35pm

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh and DF our buddy Larry is planning or writing about electricity some more at PJM...

That fellow doesn't know when to quit, does he? Every time he goes into a science confrontation with you he gets his butt kicked. You think he'd quit trying. He must have reacted so strongly to you and FG S&M exchange because he himself is a masochist. That's the best explanation for why he keeps trying.

70 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:23:41pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

In other words, you'd rather hold him personally responsible for decades of established US mideast foreign policy than acknowledge the adult level complexity of the real world. Also, the President doesn't appropriate money, Congress does that.

Somewhere along the line, Congress passed money to the Palestinians. They didn't for a time, but then they did. However, if I remember correctly, Bush gave the money to FATAH. Not to Hamas. Not that that gives me a warm fuzzy, but there is a difference. Abbas/Fatah isn't launching missiles. The West Bank has another set of issues surrounding land rights.

Are we going to send in monitors into Gaza to be sure that what they say will be built, will be built? We gonna stay there to be sure they don't become weapons factories? Like hell.

I like the guy, but this is awful.

71 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:24:05pm

re: #63 brookly red

well here it is, right out in the open he is giving money we don't have to people who hate us while we are suffering here at home and I don't see anyone offering a good defense... how could that be?

he's a liberal

72 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:24:44pm

re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm in the boonies, not meetable in a travel sense.

73 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:25:31pm

re: #61 avanti

I'm not even going to reply to such blather

74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:25:32pm

re: #72 Ojoe

Doesn't mean I don't wish I could sit and have a few with ya.

75 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:25:48pm

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh and DF our buddy Larry is planning or writing about electricity some more at PJM...

Shocking!

76 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:26:20pm

re: #74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OK Cool, good thing there is this blog at least.

77 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:26:40pm

re: #61 avanti

Recent administrations have tried to funnel the aid away from Hamas, we don't just write a check. I'm not saying they don't hijack food aid for example and sell it, it could be a problem.

They also play politics with aid, support Hamas, or get nothing:

"People who are not in with Hamas don't see any of the relief goods or the gifts of money," Khadar says. On the sand dune where his house once perched, there is now an emergency shelter. The shelter is made of concrete blocks that Khadar dug from the rubble, and the roof is the canvas of a tent that provided the family with shelter for the first summer after the war. "Hamas supporters get prefabricated housing, furnishings and paid work. We get nothing," Khadar complains.

Hamas Members Take and Distribute 'at Their Own Discretion'

The reason his family receives nothing: Like many of his neighbors, Khadar is a die-hard supporter of the Fatah party, the sworn political enemy of the more radical Islamists in Hamas.

Sounds like he needs to get outa Gaza then.

Doesn't that story tell you something? How is this money going to get passed (400 million??) to "the people." And what's gonna stop Hamas from coming in and grabbing it. I don't get it.

78 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:28:02pm

re: #76 Ojoe

OK Cool, good thing there is this blog at least.

I will always cover your 6....
count on it

79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:28:02pm

I need to go and take care of "Zombie Mouth". But I just wanna say, if we were all sitting in a room, having drinks, enjoying civil conversation?

I'd be saying something like, "May I take your order?"

Really, guys and gals... it's an honor to even be a court jester here.

Bless y'all.

80 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:28:23pm

Pop fizz, bottle of stout, have one on me.

LOL

But this is a serious thread, disappointing Reuters we are.

Ah well, BBL.

81 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:28:45pm

re: #78 albusteve

Thank you

BBL ...

82 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:29:59pm

re: #70 marjoriemoon

Somewhere along the line, Congress passed money to the Palestinians. They didn't for a time, but then they did. However, if I remember correctly, Bush gave the money to FATAH. Not to Hamas. Not that that gives me a warm fuzzy, but there is a difference. Abbas/Fatah isn't launching missiles. The West Bank has another set of issues surrounding land rights.

Are we going to send in monitors into Gaza to be sure that what they say will be built, will be built? We gonna stay there to be sure they don't become weapons factories? Like hell.

I like the guy, but this is awful.

Not that it makes it right, but Bush sent aid to Gaza too, it's not a new thing.

83 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:30:39pm

400 million to Gaza & not one dime to Memphis after the floods... 400 million could go along way to shrimpers in NO, but no, 400 million could help in AZ, yet some fail to see the anger that is about to consume this country...

84 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:31:02pm

re: #35 Boogberg

The term "Palis" is considered to be a slur in PC circles. Just sayin'.

How bout Jordyptians?

85 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:32:01pm

re: #82 avanti

Not that it makes it right, but Bush sent aid to Gaza too, it's not a new thing.

today is a new thing gramps....get with the program and drop that moldy, partisan bullshit

86 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:32:25pm

re: #79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Your coolness was verified the instant you chose your screen name. :D

87 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:32:53pm

re: #86 Boogberg

Your coolness was verified the instant you chose your screen name. :D

You should have seen his previous one!

88 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:33:23pm

re: #87 wrenchwench

Actually, I prefer the "new" one.

89 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:33:25pm

re: #75 Floral Giraffe

Shocking!

Lol yes indeed. Poor Larry. All alone and no one to spank him except me - if I notice him.

90 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:33:46pm

re: #66 brookly red

so let me ask you this, should we be giving them 400 million yes or no?

well frank yes or no?

91 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:34:48pm

re: #89 LudwigVanQuixote

Lol yes indeed. Poor Larry. All alone and no one to spank him except me - if I notice him.

Who is Larry?

92 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:35:30pm

re: #91 HoosierHoops

Who is Larry?

the middle guy with the real bushy hair

93 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:38:24pm

re: #91 HoosierHoops

Who is Larry?

Snork over at the village of the banned.

94 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:38:28pm

To lighten the mood a bit, how about a traditional Yemeni Jambiya Dance?

Youtube Video

Now we know what really happened. The guy on the boat was just part of a troupe of travelling entertainers trying to bring cultural exchange to Gaza.

I may write a poem in jambic pentameter about it later on, if I get drunk enough.

95 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:38:28pm

so how many home runs did Ted Williams hit in a World Series?

96 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:40:22pm

re: #83 brookly red

400 million to Gaza & not one dime to Memphis after the floods... 400 million could go along way to shrimpers in NO, but no, 400 million could help in AZ, yet some fail to see the anger that is about to consume this country...

If this is correct, make that 483 million dollars. That's going to all of the Palestinian authority. Close enough to round it off to half-billion. By the time all the interest is paid on that debt it will probably be much more.

97 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:40:40pm

re: #95 albusteve

0

98 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:40:41pm

re: #96 Gus 802

Oops, link: [Link: www.abc.net.au...]

99 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:41:14pm

re: #91 HoosierHoops

Who is Larry?

In other words, a failed and fraudulent supposed "engineer." He got caught not knowing how a thermos works when misrepresenting thermodynamics, how basic calculus works when arguing mathematics and not understanding energy conservation when arguing physics. In short, not just a wingnut, but a real moron to boot.

100 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:41:22pm

re: #91 HoosierHoops

Who is Larry?

He calls himself 'snork' on the Stalker Blog. It's not outing him to say that, because as snork he claimed credit for a Pajamas Media article about smart grids that was published under his real name. The article basically ridiculed the concept of smart grids; Ludwig promptly and effectively refuted it of course.

101 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:41:30pm

re: #94 Cato the Elder

To lighten the mood a bit, how about a traditional Yemeni Jambiya Dance?

I thought you said "Yemeni jambalaya" do they make it with chicken?

102 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:41:39pm

re: #85 albusteve

today is a new thing gramps...get with the program and drop that moldy, partisan bullshit

The reality is, Gaza is dependent on aid from Israel and the rest of the world. Israel could shut off all the fuel, electrify and water with a flip of a switch. They choose not to stave a population because the voters of Gaza voted for a terrorist government and the US has agreed to do the same.
We supported a free election in Gaza, and we can't unring that bell.

103 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:42:16pm

re: #93 LudwigVanQuixote

Snork over at the village of the banned.

that pastime is for a different sort of person...gossip mongers, sort of like your hair salon

104 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:43:27pm

re: #96 Gus 802

If this is correct, make that 483 million dollars. That's going to all of the Palestinian authority. Close enough to round it off to half-billion. By the time all the interest is paid on that debt it will probably be much more.

and the killer is it is being given to "create jobs"... I am truly starting to become displeased with this administration.

105 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:43:43pm

re: #97 EdDantes

0

same as what you win for answering correctly

106 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:44:23pm

re: #82 avanti

Not that it makes it right, but Bush sent aid to Gaza too, it's not a new thing.

Well, I didn't know that, but that's equally awful.

Bush sent money through the UN that was targeted for all refugees. That would be UNRWA who can't manage their money. Who let Arafat steal it all and put his disgusting wife in a condo in Paris while his people suffered. Who lets the Arabs write schoolbooks that tell lies about the region's history and the Jews. Cripes don't get me started on UNRWA.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

By seeking to aid Gazans but not Hamas, the [Obama] administration is following the lead of the Bush administration, which sent money to Gaza through nongovernmental organizations. In December, it said it would give $85 million to the United Nations agency that provides aid to Palestinian refugees in the West Bank, Gaza, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.

The United States considers Hamas a terrorist organization, and the Bush administration refused to have any formal dealings with the group.

The problem is that Hamas government controls the money from the UN. They don't know that?

107 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:44:50pm

Orange Sun Simmering

Click to embiggin.
The sun is cool.

Image: orangesun_friedman_big.jpg

108 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:44:55pm

One of the vendors for the Zionist Mall called this afternoon to let me know they have changed their affiliate program and I have to change all the links to their products, something like 200 links.

The good news is, they promised to raise my commission to 15%.

109 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:45:14pm

re: #102 avanti

The reality is, Gaza is dependent on aid from Israel and the rest of the world. Israel could shut off all the fuel, electrify and water with a flip of a switch. They choose not to stave a population because the voters of Gaza voted for a terrorist government and the US has agreed to do the same.
We supported a free election in Gaza, and we can't unring that bell.

what's that got to do with BO insulting Israel with the 400m in blood money?

110 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:45:59pm

OT

Youtube Video

Charo shreds spanish music on the Guitar. Watch how far sideways she pulls the strings. Brought to you by Martha Stewart of all people.

111 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:46:03pm

re: #104 brookly red

and the killer is it is being given to "create jobs"... I am truly starting to become displeased with this administration.

On top of this...

$500m mortgage finance facility launched in Palestine

BEIRUT: Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas launched on Wednesday a landmark $500 million mortgage finance program that will double the number of Palestinian families who are able to purchase homes by offering long-term mortgages that will enable them to enjoy the benefits of home ownership without excessively burdening their monthly incomes.

Funding for mortgage program is being supplied by leading international and Palestinian financial institutions that include the Palestine Investment Fund, (PIF), an independent, state-owned investment fund working on economic development in Palestine, which will provide financing of $72 million; the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC), a US government agency whose mission is to facilitate US private sector investment in less-developed countries, which will provide $241 million; and the International Finance Corporation (IFC), a member of the World Bank Group, which will provide $72 million.

Plus the 20 million from February 2009s executive order. There's more too.

112 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:46:04pm

Wait, we are STILL giving hundreds of millions of dollars to people who hate America? Still?

Did we not learn anything?

113 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:46:07pm

re: #108 Alouette

One of the vendors for the Zionist Mall called this afternoon to let me know they have changed their affiliate program and I have to change all the links to their products, something like 200 links.

The good news is, they promised to raise my commission to 15%.

Permit me to pimp a site - that I am not related to, but I think you would like.

[Link: www.jewlicious.com...]

114 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:46:11pm

re: #108 Alouette

One of the vendors for the Zionist Mall called this afternoon to let me know they have changed their affiliate program and I have to change all the links to their products, something like 200 links.

The good news is, they promised to raise my commission to 15%.

If you have Dreamweaver or any other half-decent web program, there should be a way to make that relatively painless.

115 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:46:33pm

So tell me with the millions they already receive from the US and the EU, WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING??

116 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:46:41pm

re: #105 albusteve

same as what you win for answering correctly

Then I'm the day is mine, Trebek!

117 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:46:47pm

re: #104 brookly red

and the killer is it is being given to "create jobs"... I am truly starting to become displeased with this administration.

it's saved far more union jobs than it's created, mundane bill paying by states etc

118 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:48:04pm

re: #111 Gus 802

Plus the 20 million from February 2009s executive order. There's more too.

it's a gold mine

119 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:48:27pm

re: #111 Gus 802

Plus this...

But more needs to be done. Recent World Bank and International Monetary Fund reports suggest that maintaining economic gains will require greater loosening movement restrictions and increasing Palestinian access to Area C, which comprises about 60 percent of the West Bank. Easing restrictions on access to Gaza is also critical because the West Bank and Gaza are highly dependent on each other. Neither will be able to maintain sustainable growth in the long run without trade between them.

Another component of the recent growth is donor assistance. The PA requested $1.45 billion in assistance for 2009, and donors met $1.35 billion of that request.

120 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:48:37pm

re: #106 marjoriemoon

The problem is that Hamas government controls the money from the UN. They don't know that?

They know, but they send the money anyways for PR reasons. It's in some ways a bribe simply to let us keep talking to the Palis.

121 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:49:12pm

re: #109 albusteve

what's that got to do with BO insulting Israel with the 400m in blood money?

Insulting Israel? how about insulting American taxpayers? A real leader once said millions for defense but not one penny for tribute. This is a national disgrace, right frank?

122 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:49:48pm

re: #109 albusteve

what's that got to do with BO insulting Israel with the 400m in blood money?

How did that insult Israel ? They deliver more aid to Gaza with our support then most anyone.

123 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:50:06pm

Also, pimping a little for Alouette, but for those of you who are foodies, I strongly recommend: Gamla Cabernet Sauvignon. Vintage 2006

[Link: www.judaicawebstore.com...]

In antiquity, Israel was known throughout the Roman empire for its wines. Vines were planted almost as soon as the state was founded. It took time for them to mature, but now that they have, the wines are phenomenal.

I also recommend the Sauvignon blanc from the same vineyard.

124 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:50:15pm

re: #115 marjoriemoon

So tell me with the millions they already receive from the US and the EU, WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING??

whores & mansions same as it ever was...

125 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:50:25pm

re: #111 Gus 802

Plus the 20 million from February 2009s executive order. There's more too.

Shoot me. Shoot me now.

126 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:50:49pm

re: #111 Gus 802

Plus the 20 million from February 2009s executive order. There's more too.

OK. I'll correct this post. That 241 million is included in today's announcement:

· A $240 million investment by the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC) in the AMAL mortgage finance program in the West Bank, which is designed to increase homeownership by offering long-term mortgages at fixed- and variable rates.

· $75 million in funding through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) to support the Palestinian Authority's work to improve infrastructure throughout the West Bank and Gaza.

· $10 million in USAID-funded activities aimed at enhancing the Palestinian private sector's competitiveness.

· $40 million to support UNRWA's Emergency Appeal for Gaza and the West Bank, which will help improve educational and health services, increase job creation, and repair shelters in Gaza, while also addressing core humanitarian needs in the West Bank.

· $14.5 million in USAID projects for school rehabilitation, small-scale agriculture, the repair of a hospital facility and other community infrastructure in Gaza.

· $10 million for the construction of five new UNRWA schools in Gaza.

· $5 million to start nine USAID-funded projects to repair water distribution and wastewater collection systems in Gaza.

127 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:50:56pm

re: #115 marjoriemoon

So tell me with the millions they already receive from the US and the EU, WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING??

To piece - you know taking a piece of Jerusalem and a piece of Ashkelon away from Israel...

128 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:51:09pm

re: #107 Racer X

A current image of the sun, within the last few hours.

129 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:51:11pm

re: #113 LudwigVanQuixote

Permit me to pimp a site - that I am not related to, but I think you would like.

[Link: www.jewlicious.com...]

Jewlicious is great. Rabbi Yonah is a big contributor at the site. He's a funny guy. He dresses as a clown and mocks Neturei Karta and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Youtube Video

He's passing out pamphlets with the truth about Israel.

130 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:51:22pm

re: #119 Gus 802

Plus this...

makes Capone look like a choir boy...extortion is rampant in the ME...I'm hugely disappointed that a Chicago, made guy like BO needs to play it for political purposes....he's not even the cheap thug I thought he was...he's a stooge...Hamas's bitch

131 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:51:29pm

re: #115 marjoriemoon

So tell me with the millions they already receive from the US and the EU, WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING??

It lands in random places in Israel.

132 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:51:53pm

re: #127 LudwigVanQuixote

To piece - you know taking a piece of Jerusalem and a piece of Ashkelon away from Israel...

and a piece from Bridgett here & there...

133 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:52:42pm

re: #128 Ojoe

A current image of the sun, within the last few hours.

Crap! It blew up!

134 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:52:58pm

re: #128 Ojoe

A current image of the sun, within the last few hours.

MY EYES! MY EYES!

AHHHH!

135 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:53:01pm

re: #123 LudwigVanQuixote

Also, pimping a little for Alouette, but for those of you who are foodies, I strongly recommend: Gamla Cabernet Sauvignon. Vintage 2006

[Link: www.judaicawebstore.com...]

In antiquity, Israel was known throughout the Roman empire for its wines. Vines were planted almost as soon as the state was founded. It took time for them to mature, but now that they have, the wines are phenomenal.

I also recommend the Sauvignon blanc from the same vineyard.

What the heck? Napa Valley BV Cab...
This is like the JV vs. the NBA..
*Wink*

136 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:53:40pm

We are working and paying taxes to fund Hamas terror, does anyone else have a problem with this?

137 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:53:59pm

re: #136 brookly red

We are working and paying taxes to fund Hamas terror, does anyone else have a problem with this?

I do

138 ryannon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:55:05pm

re: #115 marjoriemoon

So tell me with the millions they already receive from the US and the EU, WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING??

For some of it, Geneva and Zurich.

139 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:55:27pm

re: #137 albusteve

I do

well OK that's one...

frank? wass up dude? frank?

140 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:55:47pm

Total aid to the PA in two years from the Paris Pledging Conference (includes other nations):

7.7 billion.

That's $10,547,945.20 a day.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

141 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:55:55pm

re: #110 Ojoe

OT

Charo shreds spanish music on the Guitar. Watch how far sideways she pulls the strings. Brought to you by Martha Stewart of all people.

I had no idea she was that good.

But I'll see you that and raise you this:

Youtube Video

More to my taste, in body, mind, and soul. Not so much shreddage and string-abuse. And Ana Vidovic studied here in Baltimore at the Peabody Conservatory of Music. She returns often for concerts, one of which I may have the good luck to catch someday.

142 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:56:27pm

re: #130 albusteve

makes Capone look like a choir boy...extortion is rampant in the ME...I'm hugely disappointed that a Chicago, made guy like BO needs to play it for political purposes...he's not even the cheap thug I thought he was...he's a stooge...Hamas's bitch

Well, Capone had to pay off the cops and politicians, right on up to the mayor for most of the 20's. The phrase 'most of' is used because William Dever (in office 1923-1927) was actually clean. Thugs routinely hand out bribes.

143 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:56:44pm

I don't want to fund Gaza & I vote.

144 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:56:58pm

re: #130 albusteve

makes Capone look like a choir boy...extortion is rampant in the ME...I'm hugely disappointed that a Chicago, made guy like BO needs to play it for political purposes...he's not even the cheap thug I thought he was...he's a stooge...Hamas's bitch

Would you kindly put up or shut up with the "made guy" nonsense?

145 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:57:15pm

re: #136 brookly red

We are working and paying taxes to fund Hamas terror, does anyone else have a problem with this?

Fuck yes.

I have a whole list of places we should turn the spigot off. Just turn it off. No reason, no explanation, just *click*. If they come and ask why we should just shrug. Whatever. No need to even bother discussing it.

146 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:57:16pm

re: #140 Gus 802

Total aid to the PA in two years from the Paris Pledging Conference (includes other nations):

7.7 billion.

That's $10,547,945.20 a day.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Let's give them more money! That'll help!

Ok I'm gonna go play some computer games. I'm feeling aggressive. Must be an alpha female thing. (Don't ask me to pound my chest, please.)

Later lizards.

147 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:57:40pm

re: #143 brookly red

I don't want to fund Gaza & I vote.

Yea well Bush was a big disappointment in the same department.

148 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:57:49pm

re: #139 brookly red

well OK that's one...

frank? wass up dude? frank?

Hamas supporters are very skittish about posting anymore...they misjudged the original outcome, so they are walking their dogs at this time

149 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:58:00pm

re: #137 albusteve

I do

Me too.

150 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:58:41pm

re: #147 marjoriemoon

Yea well Bush was a big disappointment in the same department.

So lets double down!

151 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:58:48pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Well, Capone had to pay off the cops and politicians, right on up to the mayor for most of the 20's. The phrase 'most of' is used because William Dever (in office 1923-1927) was actually clean. Thugs routinely hand out bribes.

we'll see what the payoff is

152 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:58:55pm

re: #140 Gus 802

Total aid to the PA in two years from the Paris Pledging Conference (includes other nations):

7.7 billion.

That's $10,547,945.20 a day.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Much of that money goes to neighboring countries that ship in supplies, i.e.

"Tuesday, May 18, 2010

JERUSALEM, Israel - Israel transferred more than 14,000 tons of humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip last week, the IDF Spokesperson's Office reported.

In addition to the deliveries, 781 patients and those accompanying them from the Gaza Strip and Judea and Samaria were transported to Israel for medical treatment.

One hundred ninety-one staff members from international organizations entered Gaza and 202 staffers entered Israel from the Strip.

Among the products transported to Gaza were the following:

* 810,209 liters of heavy-duty diesel fuel for the power station
* 21 truckloads of milk powder and baby food
* 897 tons of cooking gas
* 66 truckloads of fruits and vegetables
* 51 truckloads of wheat
* 27 truckloads of meat, chicken and fish
* 40 truckloads of dairy products
* 117 truckloads of animal feed
* 36 truckloads of hygiene products
* 22 truckloads of sugar
* 38 truckloads of clothing and shoes
* 4 truckloads of medicine and medical equipment."

153 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:58:57pm

re: #145 Racer X

Fuck yes.

I have a whole list of places we should turn the spigot off. Just turn it off. No reason, no explanation, just *click*. If they come and ask why we should just shrug. Whatever. No need to even bother discussing it.

no let us discuss... bring it on these things need to be said.

154 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:59:16pm

re: #128 Ojoe

A current image of the sun, within the last few hours.

I already knew there was a gigantic, ginormous great ball of fire out there.

The question is, what is Obama going to do about it?

155 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 5:59:51pm

re: #147 marjoriemoon

Yea well Bush was a big disappointment in the same department.

OK so let us fix it this time.

156 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:00:14pm

re: #144 Cato the Elder

Would you kindly put up or shut up with the "made guy" nonsense?

I've seen all the movies...I'm an expert...BO was groomed like a 2 year old

157 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:00:23pm

re: #154 Cato the Elder

He will be furious!

158 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:00:51pm

re: #157 EdDantes

He will be furious!

Time to kick ass on the sun!

159 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:01:02pm

re: #154 Cato the Elder

I already knew there was a gigantic, ginormous great ball of fire out there.

The question is, what is Obama going to do about it?

he's gonna kick it's ass...
GO O MAN!

160 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:01:50pm

re: #135 HoosierHoops

What the heck? Napa Valley BV Cab...
This is like the JV vs. the NBA..
*Wink*

Try it before you say it. I like napa valley wines quite well. However, what I am talking about here is something that might surprise you.

161 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:02:16pm

re: #158 Cato the Elder

Time to kick ass on the sun!

President Obama outshines the sun! Hell, yeah!

162 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:02:21pm

re: #153 brookly red

no let us discuss... bring it on these things need to be said.

I meant no need to discuss the missing checks to places like, like, well, half the frickin places on this list.

We should just stop sending the checks. Period.

163 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:03:11pm

re: #154 Cato the Elder

I already knew there was a gigantic, ginormous great ball of fire out there.

The question is, what is Obama going to do about it?

Well that is like saying there is a lot of land out there... the land does not pay real estate tax the people do... so the sun can not be taxed only those who it shines on... I truly hate these people.

164 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:03:20pm

re: #123 LudwigVanQuixote

Also, pimping a little for Alouette, but for those of you who are foodies, I strongly recommend: Gamla Cabernet Sauvignon. Vintage 2006

[Link: www.judaicawebstore.com...]

In antiquity, Israel was known throughout the Roman empire for its wines. Vines were planted almost as soon as the state was founded. It took time for them to mature, but now that they have, the wines are phenomenal.

I also recommend the Sauvignon blanc from the same vineyard.

Here is the link to my Israeli wine store.

The best, best, best wine comes from the Golan wineries! It is the best wine I have ever tasted, not that I am such a big wine maven, but these are dry wines that don't have any sour tang, just crisp deliciousness.

165 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:03:45pm

re: #141 Cato the Elder

Wow, awesome, a national treasure.

166 ryannon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:04:01pm

re: #140 Gus 802

Total aid to the PA in two years from the Paris Pledging Conference (includes other nations):

7.7 billion.

That's $10,547,945.20 a day.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I need some help on the math here: if the total population of the 'Palestinian Territories' can be estimated to be somewhat over four million today, how much does that make per person in the above two-year period?

167 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:05:17pm

do you think Hamas will make a statement of thanks for BOs generosity?....spit

168 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:05:46pm

re: #166 ryannon

I need some help on the math here: if the total population of the 'Palestinian Territories' can be estimated to be somewhat over four million today, how much does that make per person in the above two-year period?

Almost $200?

169 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:06:42pm

re: #167 albusteve

do you think Hamas will make a statement of thanks for BOs generosity?...spit

I am so disgusted by this I need to go out for some air. And perhaps a cup of tea.

170 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:06:53pm

re: #168 Racer X

Almost $200?

No, $2,000.

171 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:07:01pm

re: #166 ryannon
Doesn't matter, they don't need our 400 million buck care package. Cancel it.

172 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:07:21pm

re: #167 albusteve

do you think Hamas will make a statement of thanks for BOs generosity?...spit

I doubt it. They'll always demand more. Always.

173 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:07:35pm

re: #152 avanti

Much of that money goes to neighboring countries that ship in supplies, i.e.

"Tuesday, May 18, 2010

JERUSALEM, Israel - Israel transferred more than 14,000 tons of humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip last week, the IDF Spokesperson's Office reported.

In addition to the deliveries, 781 patients and those accompanying them from the Gaza Strip and Judea and Samaria were transported to Israel for medical treatment.

One hundred ninety-one staff members from international organizations entered Gaza and 202 staffers entered Israel from the Strip.

Among the products transported to Gaza were the following:

* 810,209 liters of heavy-duty diesel fuel for the power station
* 21 truckloads of milk powder and baby food
* 897 tons of cooking gas
* 66 truckloads of fruits and vegetables
* 51 truckloads of wheat
* 27 truckloads of meat, chicken and fish
* 40 truckloads of dairy products
* 117 truckloads of animal feed
* 36 truckloads of hygiene products
* 22 truckloads of sugar
* 38 truckloads of clothing and shoes
* 4 truckloads of medicine and medical equipment."

I could spend the next 8 hours analyzing the breakdown of the money but regardless, the money is going to the Palestinian Authority. The 7.7 billion is for the Palestinian Reform and Development Program (PRDP).

You can read the some allocations on page 91 of this document:

Palestinian Reform and Development Plan 2008 2010

174 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:07:38pm

re: #170 Racer X

No, $2,000.

pesky decibles

175 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:08:52pm

re: #160 LudwigVanQuixote

Try it before you say it. I like napa valley wines quite well. However, what I am talking about here is something that might surprise you.

I have to trash any wine which doesn't come from Napa..It's a matter of pride in my home town..
I'm not saying we don't sit in the back booth amazed at the wine you suggest to try..I'm sure it is World Class....The beauty of wine is everyone can disagree and everybody be right at the same time....

176 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:09:12pm

The donations to the Palestinians have been going on for decades. It's kind of silly to blame it on Barack Obama. If there's any policy he inherited, and has very little power to change even if he wanted to, it's this one.

177 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:09:26pm

re: #169 brookly red

I am so disgusted by this I need to go out for some air. And perhaps a cup of tea.

Tea? That is not disgust. Disgust is slamming shots of Bushmills! I know. I do it frequently.

178 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:09:31pm

re: #170 Racer X

No, $2,000.

Yep, about $1000/year/per person. BTW, we could argue this for days, but the simple fact is the world, even including Israel helps the with the relief and that's not likely to change.

179 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:10:48pm

re: #165 Ojoe

Wow, awesome, a national treasure.

She was born in Croatia.

This is Ana playing the guitar at the age of six four:

Youtube Video

Oh, the glory of talent!

180 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:11:07pm

re: #176 Charles

The donations to the Palestinians have been going on for decades. It's kind of silly to blame it on Barack Obama. If there's any policy he inherited, and has very little power to change even if he wanted to, it's this one.

with all due respect Sir he is the President.

181 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:11:11pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

I doubt it. They'll always demand more. Always.

"thank you!...see, even the POTUS understands and supports out crusade against the Nazi Jews!....we are repressed, our people starve and our babies die from disease...the disease of Zionist aggression!"

182 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:12:14pm

REAL CAT VS. TOY CAT

Youtube Video
183 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:12:15pm

re: #164 Alouette

Here is the link to my Israeli wine store.

The best, best, best wine comes from the Golan wineries! It is the best wine I have ever tasted, not that I am such a big wine maven, but these are dry wines that don't have any sour tang, just crisp deliciousness.

That's something to keep in mind. My mother is a big chardonnay fan.

184 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:12:16pm

re: #180 brookly red

with all due respect Sir he is the President.

and he did promise change.

185 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:12:31pm

re: #176 Charles

The donations to the Palestinians have been going on for decades. It's kind of silly to blame it on Barack Obama. If there's any policy he inherited, and has very little power to change even if he wanted to, it's this one.

why do you say that?...BO cannot defy past policy, even as events create a new paradigm?...

186 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:13:04pm

re: #176 Charles

The donations to the Palestinians have been going on for decades. It's kind of silly to blame it on Barack Obama. If there's any policy he inherited, and has very little power to change even if he wanted to, it's this one.

Agreed.

I'm not blaming anyone in particular - just saying 'enough'.

187 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:13:06pm

re: #178 avanti

Yep, about $1000/year/per person. BTW, we could argue this for days, but the simple fact is the world, even including Israel helps the with the relief and that's not likely to change.

According to the Jewish Virtual Library in 2003 they estimated about 1,330 dollars per Palestinian:

Fact Sheets #27: The Palestinian Money Trail

188 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:13:24pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

Alirio Diaz plays, I think, "The fields at Dawn".

189 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:13:33pm

re: #173 Gus 802

I could spend the next 8 hours analyzing the breakdown of the money but regardless, the money is going to the Palestinian Authority. The 7.7 billion is for the Palestinian Reform and Development Program (PRDP).

You can read the some allocations on page 91 of this document:

Palestinian Reform and Development Plan 2008 2010

We were discussing Gaza and Hamas, the rest is doing fairly well.

190 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:13:54pm

re: #180 brookly red

with all due respect Sir he is the President.

With all due respect, the budget is set by others. Was this "gift" to the Palestinians authorized by executive order?

191 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:15:11pm

CNN is pimping the worst theory ever: POTUS can't be seen as getting too angry, because it would conjure up an old racial stereotype of the Angry African American Male.
What a load of crap.
It's a veritable whack job fest on television tonight: Bill Maher has Van Jones, Andrew Sullivan, and Katrina van Den Heuvel, all seated around one table, with Paul Begala, who will look like a tea partier in comparison.
If that's not enough for you, you can catch Oliver ' I love Oogo ' Stone on Larry King./

192 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:15:16pm

re: #189 avanti

We were discussing Gaza and Hamas, the rest is doing fairly well.

That includes Gaza. You'll find the details if click on the link and search through the PDF.

193 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:15:25pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

At FOUR?

WOW

194 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:15:37pm

re: #185 albusteve

why do you say that?...BO cannot defy past policy, even as events create a new paradigm?...

The donations have been going on for a long time. There's an entrenched bureaucratic mechanism behind it that will require lots of political wrangling to change.

I'm not saying I don't think he should cut off this aid; actually I think the aid should never have been started in the first place. But all presidents have to deal with political realities.

195 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:15:42pm

re: #190 Cato the Elder

With all due respect, the budget is set by others. Was this "gift" to the Palestinians authorized by executive order?

I asked that hours ago, nobody responded....in other words will congress authorize these funds?...who's in charge?

196 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:16:41pm

re: #191 tradewind

That kind of s**t is why I have never owned a TV.

197 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:17:19pm

re: #185 albusteve

Obama's made it clear that he's not going to be tied to past policy decisions when they don't suit him. I suppose when they do, he can always claim precedent.

198 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:17:24pm

Can't . . quite . . reach up . . to put up 2 fingers . . behind . . his head.

Image: ZNwrz.jpg

199 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:17:57pm

re: #176 Charles

The donations to the Palestinians have been going on for decades. It's kind of silly to blame it on Barack Obama. If there's any policy he inherited, and has very little power to change even if he wanted to, it's this one.

My objection is that he responded to a terrorist attack by increasing the amount of aid. It's a very bad message to send and it is only going to increase attacks.

200 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:18:30pm

re: #70 marjoriemoon

Somewhere along the line, Congress passed money to the Palestinians. They didn't for a time, but then they did. However, if I remember correctly, Bush gave the money to FATAH. Not to Hamas. Not that that gives me a warm fuzzy, but there is a difference. Abbas/Fatah isn't launching missiles. The West Bank has another set of issues surrounding land rights.

Are we going to send in monitors into Gaza to be sure that what they say will be built, will be built? We gonna stay there to be sure they don't become weapons factories? Like hell.

I like the guy, but this is awful.

So is this:

Abu Dan, 28, is a member of Hamas, the Iranian-backed Islamist organization that has been designated a terrorist group by the United States, but I have a good reason for taking him at his word: I’ve seen the video.

It shows abu Dan kneeling, his hands bound behind his back, and screaming as his captors pummel him with a black iron rod. “I lost all the skin on my back from the beatings,” he says. “Instead of medicine, they poured perfume on my wounds. It felt as if they had taken a sword to my injuries.”

...

There is no one more hated among Hamas members than Muhammad Dahlan, long Fatah’s resident strongman in Gaza. Dahlan, who most recently served as Abbas’s national-security adviser, has spent more than a decade battling Hamas. Dahlan insists that abu Dan was tortured without his knowledge, but the video is proof that his followers’ methods can be brutal.

Bush has met Dahlan on at least three occasions. After talks at the White House in July 2003, Bush publicly praised Dahlan as “a good, solid leader.” In private, say multiple Israeli and American officials, the U.S. president described him as “our guy.”

...

According to Dahlan, it was Bush who had pushed legislative elections in the Palestinian territories in January 2006, despite warnings that Fatah was not ready. After Hamas—whose 1988 charter committed it to the goal of driving Israel into the sea—won control of the parliament, Bush made another, deadlier miscalculation.

Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power. (The State Department declined to comment.)

But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.

Our hands are dirty no matter which power faction we deal with in Gaza. However our own interests and the interests of Israel demand that the US keeps trying, or that at least appear to keep trying to help the Gazans survive their own leadership.

201 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:18:30pm

re: #194 Charles

The donations have been going on for a long time. There's an entrenched bureaucratic mechanism behind it that will require lots of political wrangling to change.

I'm not saying I don't think he should cut off this aid; actually I think the aid should never have been started in the first place. But all presidents have to deal with political realities.

then it's time for BO to assert himself and alter the political reality imo...he can do it

202 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:18:47pm

re: #190 Cato the Elder

With all due respect, the budget is set by others. Was this "gift" to the Palestinians authorized by executive order?

Cato please, the budget is the budget & this came up afterwards...

203 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:19:19pm

re: #201 albusteve

then it's time for BO to assert himself and alter the political reality imo...he can do it

Yes We Can!

204 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:19:21pm

re: #197 tradewind

Obama's made it clear that he's not going to be tied to past policy decisions when they don't suit him. I suppose when they do, he can always claim precedent.

me thinks you are correct

205 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:19:43pm

re: #196 Ojoe

That kind of s**t is why I have never owned a TV.

I'm with ya. I think TV is just a fad.

206 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:19:44pm

Barry Rubin adds another piece of news into the regional puzzle:

The leader of the main opposition, Ataturkist and social democratic party, Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu stated that Prime Minister Erdoğan, "Almost declared war against Israel in his party’s meeting....Our party displays a more moderate and careful approach. Foreign policy can’t be carried out with heroism but with reason. The Turkish Foreign Ministry should publicly disclose correspondence made with Israel so that we may all learn whether Israel warned Turkey or not.”

Now you might ask yourself what is Kılıçdaroğlu hinting at here? And the answer is important and potentially explosive. There is a widespread story, which cannot yet be verified but seems to be more than a rumor, for why this tragedy might have happened. People ask: Why did the Israeli soldiers land on a ship where they should have expected to be received with a violent attack?

According to some people who are in a position to know, here's the reason: Erdoğan assured Israel that the ship's passengers were peaceful and there would be no violence. That's why Israel approached taking and diverting the ship in the manner it did. Is this true? I don't know but it is definitely a story to watch

He doesn't state who his sources are, but connects this to the governmental link noted in the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center report released today.

It would help to explain the apparent intelligence lack on the part of the Israelis. Erdogan may well have really and truly set Israel up, and the incident no doubt has the Israeli's reeling with the implications.

This, if true, would amount to Erdogan revealing his hand to the Israelis, and completely dropping the facade of being a regional honest broker.

Would the perceived gains to the Turkish Islamist IRK party justify such a "coming out" of the Turkish orientation towards Israel?

Arguably, it would. Just look at the outrage Israel is witnessing throughout the world, then consider that this outrage has been greatly mitigated by the (relatively) quick release of the aerial videos. Imagine the reaction if Israel didn't have such evidence so readily available.

Erdogan may well have expected this incident, which he may have helped to orchestrate, would deal a much heavier blow to Israel's credibility and image than it actually has.

207 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:19:56pm

re: #195 albusteve

I asked that hours ago, nobody responded...in other words will congress authorize these funds?...who's in charge?

we are in charge and it is damn well time we realized it.

208 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:20:13pm

re: #195 albusteve

I asked that hours ago, nobody responded...in other words will congress authorize these funds?...who's in charge?

Might be a good idea to find that out before going into a shit-fit about Obama...

209 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:20:44pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout
It should be sent, if sent it must be, in the form of food/medicine and other tangible assets for the people's welfare. Cash can be converted all too easily into rockets and mortar.
Not that there's any chance of this happening.

210 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:21:09pm

re: #199 Killgore Trout

My objection is that he responded to a terrorist attack by increasing the amount of aid. It's a very bad message to send and it is only going to increase attacks.

Hey, don't get me wrong... I don't like it one bit, either, and I'd prefer to see Obama come out and say, "That's it. Not one more penny until you make the following changes..."

But he can't do that any more than GW could, and for the same reason: Saudi Arabia.

211 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:21:21pm

re: #194 Charles

The donations have been going on for a long time. There's an entrenched bureaucratic mechanism behind it that will require lots of political wrangling to change.

I'm not saying I don't think he should cut off this aid; actually I think the aid should never have been started in the first place. But all presidents have to deal with political realities.

Canada shifted from funding the PA or UNRWA directly to funding specific projects to help build infrastructure/the PA judicial system.

Of course, Canada gives much less than the US, but it would be nice if the US implemented measures for greater transparency of exactly where that money was going.

212 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:22:07pm

re: #187 Gus 802

According to the Jewish Virtual Library in 2003 they estimated about 1,330 dollars per Palestinian:

Fact Sheets #27: The Palestinian Money Trail

Arafat stole between 1-3 billion for himself.

At least double that fell to 'corruption' within the PLO.

213 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:22:21pm

re: #194 Charles

The donations have been going on for a long time. There's an entrenched bureaucratic mechanism behind it that will require lots of political wrangling to change.

I'm not saying I don't think he should cut off this aid; actually I think the aid should never have been started in the first place. But all presidents have to deal with political realities.

Well, it should be possible to simply say "No money for Gaza till Shalit comes home". Who would oppose that?

214 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:22:30pm

re: #208 Cato the Elder
There's a lot of power in that pen that signs executive orders.

215 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:22:49pm

Holy crap Sara, you can see Russia from here!

Image: hX9lO.jpg

216 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:23:09pm

re: #208 Cato the Elder

Might be a good idea to find that out before going into a shit-fit about Obama...

I don't need an answer to that question before expressing my shit fit...it's all shit with this guy...he's getting outfoxed at every turn in the ME...he's a dope

217 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:23:20pm

re: #213 Dark_Falcon

Well, it should be possible to simply say "No money for Gaza till Shalit comes home". Who would oppose that?

Many, many, people.

They'd demand Obama reciprocate by saying "No money for Israel until they give the Palestinians their own state"

218 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:23:24pm

re: #211 Joo-LiZ

Canada shifted from funding the PA or UNRWA directly to funding specific projects to help build infrastructure/the PA judicial system.

Of course, Canada gives much less than the US, but it would be nice if the US implemented measures for greater transparency of exactly where that money was going.

The EU too has demnaded more transparency.

PA and Hamas: Screw you.

219 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:23:45pm

re: #164 Alouette

Here is the link to my Israeli wine store.

The best, best, best wine comes from the Golan wineries! It is the best wine I have ever tasted, not that I am such a big wine maven, but these are dry wines that don't have any sour tang, just crisp deliciousness.

It's really quite good. I am very fond of the Golan wines as well.

Now your opinions:

I have a very lovely heirloom kiddish cup that I value perhaps more than any other possession. However, I would like to reserve it for only the very best special occasions, rather than let familiarity breed lack of appreciation for it.

Which do you think is the nicest? And please, anyone else buzz in too.

[Link: www.judaism.com...]

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

220 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:23:55pm

re: #213 Dark_Falcon

Well, it should be possible to simply say "No money for Gaza till Shalit comes home". Who would oppose that?

how about no money for Gaza till they stop being terrorists AND our deficit is paid off?

221 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:24:36pm

re: #185 albusteve

why do you say that?...BO cannot defy past policy, even as events create a new paradigm?...

I assume the previous administrations and Obama feel that the image of billions going to Israel in aid needs a bit of balance in the Arab world. We support Israel when it defends itself by leveling parts of Gaza, we help rebuild it to seem more even handed. It's what civilized nations do, even those like Israel that are directly threatened.
The bad news is, I agree that nothing we do, will make the terrorists love us, short of the destruction of Israel. I'd feel better about the aid if rich Arab countries footed more of the bill too.

"Gulf states launch Arab aid plan to rebuild Gaza
Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:45pm GMT

RIYADH Feb 22 (Reuters) - Gulf Arab states proposed on Sunday a joint plan for Arab aid to rebuild the Gaza Strip.

The extent of the funding has not been revealed but a Gulf Arab official said $1.25 billion has been pledged by Saudi Arabia and Qatar." Big woop.

222 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:24:55pm

re: #206 Joo-LiZ

Barry Rubin adds another piece of news into the regional puzzle:

He doesn't state who his sources are, but connects this to the governmental link noted in the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center report released today.

It would help to explain the apparent intelligence lack on the part of the Israelis. Erdogan may well have really and truly set Israel up, and the incident no doubt has the Israeli's reeling with the implications.

This, if true, would amount to Erdogan revealing his hand to the Israelis, and completely dropping the facade of being a regional honest broker.

Would the perceived gains to the Turkish Islamist IRK party justify such a "coming out" of the Turkish orientation towards Israel?

Arguably, it would. Just look at the outrage Israel is witnessing throughout the world, then consider that this outrage has been greatly mitigated by the (relatively) quick release of the aerial videos. Imagine the reaction if Israel didn't have such evidence so readily available.

Erdogan may well have expected this incident, which he may have helped to orchestrate, would deal a much heavier blow to Israel's credibility and image than it actually has.

If that's true, then we have no business being allied to Turkey at all as long as Erdogen is in charge.

223 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:25:08pm

re: #213 Dark_Falcon
Probably half the student body of UC Santa Cruz, just for starters...//

224 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:25:17pm

re: #209 tradewind

It will be filtered through the PA with the usual restrictions. It still won't help the average Palestinian any. Whatever schools and hospital are built will be used to launch rockets and will end up getting damaged in the next war. The increase in aid is a direct response to poorly armed terrorist getting themselves killed in a stupid attempt to take hostages. We just gave them a lot of money for doing that. They are going to do it again. If it doesn't work, they'll get a higher body count. They love dead children so they'll start getting their own children killed in these attempts too. It's a horrible thing to reward with extra money.

225 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:25:21pm

241 million of the aid for the Palestinians will go to the Affordable Mortgage and Loan program. Looks like it's been done before:

AMAL will be established through a collaborative framework of financing with OPIC providing a guaranty of up to $250 million


Overseas Private Investment Corporation

The Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC) is an agency of the United States Government established in 1971 that helps U.S. businesses invest overseas and promotes economic development in new and emerging markets. OPIC's mission is to "foster economic development in new and emerging markets, support U.S. foreign policy and create U.S. jobs by helping U.S. businesses to invest overseas." The agency provides political risk insurance against the risks of inconvertibility, political violence, or expropriation. OPIC also provides financing through direct loans and loan guarantees. OPIC operations cost nothing to American taxpayers because it charges market-based fees for its products and services. The agency has earned a profit in each year of operations — US$ 175 million in 2002 — and built its reserves to more than US$ 4 billion.

226 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:25:33pm

re: #210 Charles

Hey, don't get me wrong... I don't like it one bit, either, and I'd prefer to see Obama come out and say, "That's it. Not one more penny until you make the following changes..."

But he can't do that any more than GW could, and for the same reason: Saudi Arabia.

As a thought-experiment, what could the Saudis do if he did that?

227 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:25:52pm

re: #219 ludwigvanquixote

Just beautiful Silver

228 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:26:09pm

re: #219 ludwigvanquixote

It's really quite good. I am very fond of the Golan wines as well.

Now your opinions:

I have a very lovely heirloom kiddish cup that I value perhaps more than any other possession. However, I would like to reserve it for only the very best special occasions, rather than let familiarity breed lack of appreciation for it.

Which do you think is the nicest? And please, anyone else buzz in too.

[Link: www.judaism.com...]

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

I would choose between the first two.

I feel like the second is more happenin', the first is more plain -- but kind of nicer because it of that.

Not a fan of the third. (Personal taste)

229 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:26:13pm

re: #214 tradewind

There's a lot of power in that pen that signs executive orders.

Was it an executive order? That's what I'm trying to determine.

230 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:26:34pm

re: #221 avanti

I assume the previous administrations and Obama feel that the image of billions going to Israel in aid needs a bit of balance in the Arab world. We support Israel when it defends itself by leveling parts of Gaza, we help rebuild it to seem more even handed. It's what civilized nations do, even those like Israel that are directly threatened.
The bad news is, I agree that nothing we do, will make the terrorists love us, short of the destruction of Israel. I'd feel better about the aid if rich Arab countries footed more of the bill too.

"Gulf states launch Arab aid plan to rebuild Gaza
Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:45pm GMT

RIYADH Feb 22 (Reuters) - Gulf Arab states proposed on Sunday a joint plan for Arab aid to rebuild the Gaza Strip.

The extent of the funding has not been revealed but a Gulf Arab official said $1.25 billion has been pledged by Saudi Arabia and Qatar." Big woop.

I turn off when the 'previous administration' is mentioned...it's a new day, a new world, and we need to adapt

231 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:26:35pm

re: #210 Charles

Hey, don't get me wrong... I don't like it one bit, either, and I'd prefer to see Obama come out and say, "That's it. Not one more penny until you make the following changes..."

But he can't do that any more than GW could, and for the same reason: Saudi Arabia.

It's blackmail, pure and simple.

As long as the US insists on checkbook foreign policy, the threat is conflict goes from low grade to high grade if the checks stop.

That is one of the memes (read: myths) the Saudis have effectively promulgated.

232 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:26:36pm

re: #225 Gus 802

1971... Nixon

233 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:26:40pm

not one f'en dime in foreign aid till our deficit is paid off, period.

vote for me.

234 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:26:50pm

re: #226 Cato the Elder

As a thought-experiment, what could the Saudis do if he did that?

Oil embargo?

235 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:27:42pm

re: #229 Cato the Elder

Was it an executive order? That's what I'm trying to determine.

you have Google no? try a bit of research.

236 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:27:42pm

Blackhawks score and tie the game 2-2. Go Hawks, bring the Stanley Cup to Chicago!

237 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:27:48pm

re: #234 EdDantes

Oil embargo?

Doubt it.

238 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:28:24pm

re: #224 Killgore Trout

It will be filtered through the PA with the usual restrictions. It still won't help the average Palestinian any. Whatever schools and hospital are built will be used to launch rockets and will end up getting damaged in the next war. The increase in aid is a direct response to poorly armed terrorist getting themselves killed in a stupid attempt to take hostages. We just gave them a lot of money for doing that. They are going to do it again. If it doesn't work, they'll get a higher body count. They love dead children so they'll start getting their own children killed in these attempts too. It's a horrible thing to reward with extra money.

agreed...Hamas is not part of the Peace Equation

239 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:28:33pm

re: #225 Gus 802

241 million of the aid for the Palestinians will go to the Affordable Mortgage and Loan program. Looks like it's been done before:

The issues is one of 'fees' that will be paid out. Been like that for a while.

When it comes to real state in the PA, everybody gets a cut.

240 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:28:49pm

re: #227 HoosierHoops

re: #228 Joo-LiZ

Thanks for the input.

I like them all for different reasons. The first is regal and almost baroque. The second just has really strong lines and forms - I am leaning towards it - and the third appeals to my love of whirls and swirls.

241 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:28:59pm

re: #223 tradewind

Probably half the student body of UC Santa Cruz, just for starters...//

They can go piss up a rope, to use Mandy's turn of phrase.

242 avanti  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:29:31pm

re: #213 Dark_Falcon

Well, it should be possible to simply say "No money for Gaza till Shalit comes home". Who would oppose that?

Now I could support Israel doing just that, but they know Hamas would starve the population while they got along just fine.

243 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:29:58pm

re: #226 Cato the Elder

As a thought-experiment, what could the Saudis do if he did that?

nothing, eat sand I think...it's worth a try

244 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:30:05pm

re: #235 brookly red

you have Google no? try a bit of research.

Bugger that. You're the ones who are complaining.

245 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:30:08pm

re: #229 Cato the Elder
Oh, I don't know. Probably not, in fact...... but Obama has used the EO already in a few instances to change things he doesn't like, and I wonder if this is an area where it applies. I guess we could find out with some digging.

246 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:30:09pm

re: #240 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #228 Joo-LiZ

Thanks for the input.

I like them all for different reasons. The first is regal and almost baroque. The second just has really strong lines and forms - I am leaning towards it - and the third appeals to my love of whirls and swirls.

Then go with the cost.

Do you want to pay more because it'll be in theory more valuable, or if you like 'em all the same you can just buy the cheapest and save the money.

247 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:30:35pm

ABANDONED SIX FLAGS – NEW ORLEANS

Check out the flickr slideshow.

248 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:30:42pm

re: #226 Cato the Elder

As a thought-experiment, what could the Saudis do if he did that?

'Incitement' is the word they use.

Whip a willing population into an anti American/anti Israel frenzy.

249 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:32:00pm

re: #248 researchok

'Incitement' is the word they use.

Whip a willing population into an anti American/anti Israel frenzy.

It's depressing how effective that is as a blackmail tool

250 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:33:18pm

Star Wars diner.

Image: FvAj8.jpg

251 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:33:33pm

re: #230 albusteve

I turn off when the 'previous administration' is mentioned...it's a new day, a new world, and we need to adapt

Yes, it's a new world with all of the same old problems. Problems like Saudi Arabia and our own oil demand helping to fund terrorism. Adapt to that, addressing the root causes of the actual problem.

252 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:33:39pm

re: #249 Joo-LiZ

It's depressing how effective that is as a blackmail tool

The Saudi media 'Jews use blood to make pastry' meme came out when Bush wanted to spur ME negotiations.

253 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:34:10pm

re: #246 Joo-LiZ

Then go with the cost.

Do you want to pay more because it'll be in theory more valuable, or if you like 'em all the same you can just buy the cheapest and save the money.

Actually, I am looking a little more closely, they are much smaller than I first expected them to be from the picture. Alouette, are the measurements for the cup itself or for the whole cup including the stem and base?

254 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:34:11pm

re: #249 Joo-LiZ

It's depressing how effective that is as a blackmail tool

financed by a half billion gift?...I agree

255 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:34:34pm

re: #215 Racer X
There is one thing she evidently can see..... a primary winner. Almost every one she campaigned for won their race, and in some cases, they were way down before she weighed in.
That's got to rattle some nerves. Very unpredictable, too... in some cases, she went for the least conservative person running, in others, the tea party candidate.

256 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:34:49pm

re: #242 avanti

Now I could support Israel doing just that, but they know Hamas would starve the population while they got along just fine.

I can accept that. If Hamas wants to starve Gaza, then the blood is on their hands.

257 ryannon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:35:29pm

re: #217 Joo-LiZ

Many, many, people.

They'd demand Obama reciprocate by saying "No money for Israel until they give the Palestinians their own state"

Give them New Jersey and be done with it.

258 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:35:38pm

OT. "I'm all like..." What kind of English is that?

259 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:35:39pm

re: #248 researchok

'Incitement' is the word they use.

Whip a willing population into an anti American/anti Israel frenzy.

That is known as "Friday in the Ummah".

Anything else?

260 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:36:38pm

re: #256 Dark_Falcon
They're already as comfy with the Norks as peas and carrots....wouldn't put it past them to go full Pyongyang on their own people.

261 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:36:45pm

re: #258 EdDantes

OT. "I'm all like..." What kind of English is that?

Fer realz.

262 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:36:48pm

re: #254 albusteve

financed by a half billion gift?...I agree

What is really depressing is the evidence that checkbook Foreig Policy doesn't work.

The record of FA recipients voting with the US at the UN and elsewhere is miserable.

263 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:37:19pm

re: #255 tradewind

There is one thing she evidently can see... a primary winner. Almost every one she campaigned for won their race, and in some cases, they were way down before she weighed in.
That's got to rattle some nerves. Very unpredictable, too... in some cases, she went for the least conservative person running, in others, the tea party candidate.

The difference is that Fiorina is a sane person, while Angle is a lunatic teabagger.

264 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:38:08pm

re: #262 researchok
It's reminiscent of the DC public school funding mess. Throwing more money at it just makes it worse.

265 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:38:21pm

re: #259 Cato the Elder

That is known as "Friday in the Ummah".

Anything else?

Jeez...that's one long list.

Make the Saudis pout and even the phony intel on AQ disappears until they get an apology.

266 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:38:26pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

If that's true, then we have no business being allied to Turkey at all as long as Erdogen is in charge.

Another thing that is kind of annoying...

When a country such as Turkey reorients itself so dramatically, why can't democratic countries like the United States and other Western nations respond with a change in policy that is equally dramatic?

It's all about maintaining appearances, which are totally worthless.

267 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:38:30pm

re: #246 Joo-LiZ

Then go with the cost.

Do you want to pay more because it'll be in theory more valuable, or if you like 'em all the same you can just buy the cheapest and save the money.

None of those - a difference in $10-15 or even $50 is not the point if you are going to keep it at the head of your table for years and want something to be a stamp of your Shabbos table.

268 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:38:46pm

re: #261 Racer X

Fer realz.


Indeed. :)

269 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:40:11pm

re: #264 tradewind

It's reminiscent of the DC public school funding mess. Throwing more money at it just makes it worse.

Always has, always will.

You cannot buy moral behavior. Aid needs to be apart of the equation after benchmarks- moral, political, etc, are met.

Don't get me started on that.

270 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:40:33pm

re: #258 EdDantes

OT. "I'm all like..." What kind of English is that?

Valley Girl

271 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:40:50pm

re: #251 goddamnedfrank

Yes, it's a new world with all of the same old problems. Problems like Saudi Arabia and our own oil demand helping to fund terrorism. Adapt to that, addressing the root causes of the actual problem.

BO can't do it...therefore it can't be done eh?
when will BO step in and help streamline the nuke permit process?...did he dispute Boxer shutting out the Mohave solar farms?...no...did he stand up to that crackpot Kennedy's denunciation of wind power off Mass?...no...has he actually done anything to stimulate any new energy proposals?....no...he is the POTUS of NO...he's handcuffing the economy and dragging it down...he doesn't give a fuck about a green economy....he cares about re-election

272 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:41:25pm

re: #266 Joo-LiZ

Another thing that is kind of annoying...

When a country such as Turkey reorients itself so dramatically, why can't democratic countries like the United States and other Western nations respond with a change in policy that is equally dramatic?

It's all about maintaining appearances, which are totally worthless.

It doesn't actually maintain appearances, is what's sick. If we, however, were to denounce an alliance the international press would pump out stories of how we're "being bullies' and attacking "Yankee unilateralism". Bold action by the US is always attacked.

273 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:41:30pm

re: #193 Ojoe

At FOUR?

WOW

Here is Ana Vidovic today.

Thassa lotta guitar, and a whole lotta grrrl.

274 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:42:11pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon
Thus the ' very unpredictable '.
You couldn't really say she was acting in a rigidly ideological mode.
I wish NV had gone for Lowden, think she could have dispatched Reid more easily, but I would not put money on Angle's losing. Stranger things have happened. I guess it depends on how well Reid can turn out Las Vegas.

275 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:42:46pm

re: #236 Dark_Falcon

Blackhawks score and tie the game 2-2. Go Hawks, bring the Stanley Cup to Chicago!

I have never seen a hockey game in my life....( So put it on my gravestone)
But the Giants are playing the Reds on the tube live down south from here...
The team of my youth...My favorite team of all time no matter what..
Are getting their asses kicked 6-2 in the 8th...
I grew up getting my heart broken by sports...
The highlight of my young life was Golden State winning the World Championship in a sweep over the Bullets....
I think I remember every single moment by heart..
Then the Raiders...When they were champions I remember running outside with all my buddies at halftime playing tackle football...I loved the Ghost
And then there was the 49ers...I mean really..When we beat the Cowboys in the play-offs..Well I could tell you stories...But the greatest Super bowl party of all time was in the City after we beat the Bengels.. I took BART over from the East Bay...It was freaking awesome! I didn't go back to work till Thursday...
Then I transfered to Indiana and the Colts won the SuperBowl...

276 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:43:07pm

Blackhawks score! They now lead 3-2 with 2:10 left in the second period.

277 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:44:21pm

re: #270 Gus 802
Any Girl, aged eleven or so ' til they either reach adulthood or are required to fake it for employment.
:)
Try driving a carpool full of them, you'll pull out your hair unless you can tune out the ' I was all like 's.

278 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:44:25pm

re: #255 tradewind

There is one thing she evidently can see... a primary winner. Almost every one she campaigned for won their race, and in some cases, they were way down before she weighed in.
That's got to rattle some nerves. Very unpredictable, too... in some cases, she went for the least conservative person running, in others, the tea party candidate.

Ha! A few of Palin's wins were people she 'facebook endorsed' within a few days of, and in one case, on THE DAY OF, the primary...Palin picks winners alright...when she's sure they're going to win.

Sure, she'll suck in a few teabagger votes for some people, but this myth people are trying to create around her as some kind of king-maker will have to wait until after November before it can be considered more than just that...a myth.

I hope Palin campaigns hard for Fiorina and Whitman...she won't though...she'll just ride the sidelines and take credit when there's a win, while quietly distancing herself from any losses.

279 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:44:36pm

re: #244 Cato the Elder

Bugger that. You're the ones who are complaining.

so I ask you the same as I did frank... is it right that we give them 400 million yes, or no?

280 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:44:41pm

re: #265 researchok

Jeez...that's one long list.

Make the Saudis pout and even the phony intel on AQ disappears until they get an apology.

If it's phony intel, why bother worrying about it?re: #202 brookly red

Cato please, the budget is the budget & this came up afterwards...

In case you haven't ever noticed, the "budget" is an ongoing matter. As in emergency 3 A.M. meetings of Congress to approve funding for ongoing wars...

281 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:45:07pm

re: #275 HoosierHoops

I used to not like hockey, but the Blackhawks truly came into their own last year and caught my attention. Now, I'm at least a semi-fan.

282 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:46:40pm

re: #219 ludwigvanquixote

It's really quite good. I am very fond of the Golan wines as well.

Now your opinions:

I have a very lovely heirloom kiddish cup that I value perhaps more than any other possession. However, I would like to reserve it for only the very best special occasions, rather than let familiarity breed lack of appreciation for it.

Which do you think is the nicest? And please, anyone else buzz in too.

[Link: www.judaism.com...]

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

This is really a personal decision. I like the "Seora" (the middle link) but that's just my own taste. Also, at my house, we use a stemless cup.

If and when you decide to purchase, please click through from the Zionist Mall, which will then open a window to our vendor partners and pass them our sales ID. Otherwise, we don't get paid. :)

283 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:47:03pm

re: #280 Cato the Elder

In case you haven't ever noticed, the "budget" is an ongoing matter. As in emergency 3 A.M. meetings of Congress to approve funding for ongoing wars...

excellent, so we can block this travesty? way cool!

284 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:47:18pm

re: #275 HoosierHoops

Dave Caspar.

285 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:47:22pm

Infiltrating Israel's Left

This past Saturday afternoon and evening, Israel's Left held a demonstration protesting Israel's policies in the West Bank/Yehuda-Shomron, the IDF's blockade of Hamas-run Gaza, and the interdiction of the "aid" flotilla to Gaza.


What was not reported however, was the infiltration of the demonstration by a large group of Russian Israelis, proudly holding signs in English and Russian, that weren't exactly in the spirit of the planned event.

See for yourself.


Image: demo+with+meretz.jpg

286 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:47:47pm

re: #278 darthstar
Sorry, I know teh haight is strong there, but you're incorrect. Two of the candidates she traveled for and campaigned for started out twenty points under. Haley, in the SC gov race, absolutely owes her position to Palin. And she gave Fiorina enough conservative cred to win, and I think Carly actually has a chance to send Babs back home.

287 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:48:01pm

re: #164 Alouette

ever had rimon wine? it absolutely blew my mind last time i was in tel aviv.

288 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:48:08pm

re: #279 brookly red

so I ask you the same as I did frank... is it right that we give them 400 million yes, or no?

Depends™.

289 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:48:56pm

You cannot buy moral behavior.

The US has for decades employed checkbook foreign policy in the hope that aid would encourage more 'touchy feely' relations. Of course, that is not the case.

Now, we are a rich nation. I'm not advocating cutting aid from nations that need our help. That said, we ought not be fully funding nations that abuse our largesse.

Some aid, followed by more aid if conditions are met. We are not obligated to fully fund aid for regimes where violence, racism and corruption run rampant.

290 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:49:22pm

re: #288 Cato the Elder

Depends™.

so how do you make the lil tm anyway?

291 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:49:50pm

re: #289 researchok
/Got you started/.
You're absolutely right.

292 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:50:03pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

I used to not like hockey, but the Blackhawks truly came into their own last year and caught my attention. Now, I'm at least a semi-fan.

I do watch all the highlights on ESPN SportsCenter...I have never watched a game...Never interested the kid from California..Who knew?
Our Corporation in Silly Cone Valley has a Suite for the Sharks in SJ.. I've had several offers to go...I've turned them all down...It just doesn't interest me...I'm weird

293 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:50:46pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

I used to not like hockey, but the Blackhawks truly came into their own last year and caught my attention. Now, I'm at least a semi-fan.

I used to not like our Hockey, but last night he told me that he grew up fishing on Johnny Cash's property.

One can make a hella lotta 'llowances for someone who did that.

294 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:50:50pm

re: #280 Cato the Elder

If it's phony intel, why bother worrying about it?

Because it's wrapped in real intel at times.

Oil isn't the only thing the Saudis have us hooked on.

295 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:51:48pm

re: #290 brookly red
Noooo!..... if you find out, it will then be incumbent upon all of us to learn such mysteries as accents, trademarks, and other weird symbols. Leave us in our ignorance, for the love of pete./

296 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:52:02pm

re: #290 brookly red

so how do you make the lil tm anyway?

Enter "&_trade;" without the underscore.

297 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:52:46pm

re: #282 Alouette

i'll be ordering mezuzot from you, then. about to move out, so i'll need a few more.

298 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:53:31pm

re: #286 tradewind

Sorry, I know teh haight is strong there, but you're incorrect. Two of the candidates she traveled for and campaigned for started out twenty points under. Haley, in the SC gov race, absolutely owes her position to Palin. And she gave Fiorina enough conservative cred to win, and I think Carly actually has a chance to send Babs back home.

The Haight is a section of Haight Street near Golden Gate Park. Haley did get a bump from Palin, but we're talking about South Fucking Carolina--home of Jim Demint, Joe "You Lie!" Wilson, "Appalachian Trail" Sanford...need I go on?

Carly Fiorina has always been the favorite, and Palin was barely mentioned here in California with regard to Fiorina...Fiorina sure as hell wasn't bragging about having her endorsement...I live here. I watched Carly's campaign. The Palin endorsement only helps Barbara Boxer.

299 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:53:40pm

re: #285 Racer X

Infiltrating Israel's Left

This past Saturday afternoon and evening, Israel's Left held a demonstration protesting Israel's policies in the West Bank/Yehuda-Shomron, the IDF's blockade of Hamas-run Gaza, and the interdiction of the "aid" flotilla to Gaza.

What was not reported however, was the infiltration of the demonstration by a large group of Russian Israelis, proudly holding signs in English and Russian, that weren't exactly in the spirit of the planned event.

See for yourself.

Image: demo+with+meretz.jpg

Don't Mess with the Zohan

I'd laugh, but then I'm reminded how much that movie sucked.

300 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:53:58pm

re: #296 Cato the Elder

Enter "&_trade;" without the underscore.

cool now all your &trade are belonging to us...

301 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:55:09pm

re: #299 Alouette

Don't Mess with the Zohan

I'd laugh, but then I'm reminded how much that movie sucked.

I watched the Zohan movie the other day...stupid, yes, but also kind of funny in a "What the hell do you expect from Adam Sandler?" kind of way.

302 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:55:27pm

&trade

303 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:55:55pm

This is really cool.

A tea light of an Israeli soldier warming himself over a Sabbath candle.

304 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:55:55pm

re: #286 tradewind

Sorry, I know teh haight is strong there, but you're incorrect. Two of the candidates she traveled for and campaigned for started out twenty points under. Haley, in the SC gov race, absolutely owes her position to Palin. And she gave Fiorina enough conservative cred to win, and I think Carly actually has a chance to send Babs back home.

So, trade, how do you think Palin's picks will do in a general election?

305 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:56:00pm

re: #302 brookly red

&trade

Add a semicolon to the end.

306 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:56:15pm

&trade -- what other little things are there? ® ©

307 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:56:29pm

re: #298 darthstar

The Haight is a section of Haight Street near Golden Gate Park.


Thanks for clearing that up//.

308 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:56:30pm

™

309 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:56:33pm

re: #293 Cato the Elder

I used to not like our Hockey, but last night he told me that he grew up fishing on Johnny Cash's property.

One can make a hella lotta 'llowances for someone who did that.

Cash owned a property on Half Moon Golf Course a few miles outside of Mo Bay, Jamaica...I've played that course and saw his place at the time...he had to leave Half Moon because he treated his local help so poorly...word got around and nobody wanted anything to do with him...eventually he was so humiliated by the local buzz that he dumped the place and was never seen again...this, mostly, from a former employee...he's dirt in Jamaica

310 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:58:43pm

re: #309 albusteve

Cash owned a property on Half Moon Golf Course a few miles outside of Mo Bay, Jamaica...I've played that course and saw his place at the time...he had to leave Half Moon because he treated his local help so poorly...word got around and nobody wanted anything to do with him...eventually he was so humiliated by the local buzz that he dumped the place and was never seen again...this, mostly, from a former employee...he's dirt in Jamaica

he's dead Jim Steve

311 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:58:47pm

re: #284 EdDantes

Dave Caspar.

I ran into Ted Hendricks in the Safeway store at 9pm on Bay Farm Island..I stalked him from 2 feet away until I got to get his autograph and talked to him in the veggie section...I kindof of freaked the Stork out in a Safeway...

312 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:58:58pm

re: #303 Alouette

This is really cool.

A tea light of an Israeli soldier warming himself over a Sabbath candle.

Doesn't come across as a guy who would blow himself up at a kindergarten, you know?

313 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:59:05pm

re: #282 Alouette

Actually, I think I found what I am looking for... I want a big, shiny and artistic cup that sits with some regality and says "we are now seriously going to do a mitzvah!" I want to thunk it down with some authority and be able to share wine from it properly.

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

314 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 6:59:38pm

re: #310 brookly red

he's dead Jim Steve

just a heads up....
I weep over his grave daily

315 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:00:33pm

re: #313 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, I think I found what I am looking for... I want a big, shiny and artistic cup that sits with some regality and says "we are now seriously going to do a mitzvah!" I want to thunk it down with some authority and be able to share wine from it properly.

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

You're gonna a bigger table.

316 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:00:53pm

Inspired by Iceland Video

Vimeo

Really Cool.

317 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:01:43pm

re: #304 prairiefire
Don't know. I suspect it is going to be tough out there for a democratic candidate, but then that's not exactly
an original thought.

318 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:02:12pm

re: #313 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, I think I found what I am looking for... I want a big, shiny and artistic cup that sits with some regality and says "we are now seriously going to do a mitzvah!" I want to thunk it down with some authority and be able to share wine from it properly.

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

I like #3. It looks slightly heraldic, something for future generations.

319 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:02:25pm

If I weren't wiped out, I'd post all the links I have to members of the Muslim Brotherhood who were on those shits. I'll just post a few of the names.

Muhammad Al-Baltaji –Egyptian parliament
Sheikh Muhammad Al-Hazmi--Yemeni parliament
Muhammad Al-Baltaji –Egyptian parliament
Hazem Farouq--Egyptian parliament

320 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:02:30pm

re: #313 LudwigVanQuixote

you absolutely didn't ask me, but since i previously mentioned downdinging trolls while shopping for kiddush wine, i feel entitled to weigh in.

love the third one.

321 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:02:31pm

re: #315 researchok

You're gonna a bigger table.

Shabbos tables magically expand and contract, so they are always the right size for the number of guests. It's one of the miracles of the holiday. I'm actually not kidding.

A Shabbos with just you and your lady cn be the most wonderful thing ever. so can one where you have a dozen friends over. It always works out.

322 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:02:34pm

re: #314 albusteve

I don't know if one could say the same for the Nashville music establishment, though.

Best. Print ad. Ever.

323 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:03:25pm

re: #285 Racer X

Infiltrating Israel's Left

This past Saturday afternoon and evening, Israel's Left held a demonstration protesting Israel's policies in the West Bank/Yehuda-Shomron, the IDF's blockade of Hamas-run Gaza, and the interdiction of the "aid" flotilla to Gaza.

What was not reported however, was the infiltration of the demonstration by a large group of Russian Israelis, proudly holding signs in English and Russian, that weren't exactly in the spirit of the planned event.

See for yourself.

Image: demo+with+meretz.jpg

Pic won't display.

324 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:03:49pm

re: #318 prairiefire

I like #3. It looks slightly heraldic, something for future generations.

Yeah that is another part of it. I am seriously thinking of getting married right now and honestly if I have more than one child (please Hashem) I can't have just the heirloom cup to have memories with and pass along.

325 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:04:33pm

re: #321 LudwigVanQuixote

Shabbos tables magically expand and contract, so they are always the right size for the number of guests. It's one of the miracles of the holiday. I'm actually not kidding.

A Shabbos with just you and your lady cn be the most wonderful thing ever. so can one where you have a dozen friends over. It always works out.

That is only because there is no limits to love and friendship

326 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:04:45pm

re: #322 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't know if one could say the same for the Nashville music establishment, though.

Best. Print ad. Ever.

I agree with Johnny on that one

327 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:04:46pm

List of terrorists/tersymps

Petter Venner—GB
Hasan Nowarah—GB
Amin Abou Rashed—Holland Hamas leader in Holland
Bishop Hilarion Capucci (smuggled arms to PLO in 70s)
Inge Hoger—German mp
Annete Groth—ditto
Henning Mankell—Swedish writer
Mairead Corrigan Maguire—North Ireland Nobel Peace winner
Hedy Epstein—US fled Nazis in 1939
Muhammad Al-Baltaji –Egyptian parliament member of MB
Hazem Farouq—ditto
Sheikh Muhammad Al-Hazmi—Yemen member of Parliament MB
Talat Hussan—Pakistan, TV anchor
Raza Mehmood Agha—ditto, TV producer
Nadeem Ahmed Khan—ditto, “aid” group
Fintan Lane—Irish writer and historian
Edward Peck—US Ambassador Edward Peck—Deputy Director of the Cabinet Task Force on Terrorism at the Reagan White House and State Department Liaison Officer to the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon
Joe Meadors—US signalman on USS Liberty
Paul Larudee—US cofounder of Free Palestine Movement, Free Gaza Movement
Gene St. Onge—US engineer
Janet Kobren—US cofounder of FPM
Greta Berlin—US cofounder of the FGM; Greta has spent 30 years teaching engineers and scientists how to design and deliver presentations. She has been in the West Bank three times since 2003 and was wounded by Israeli gunfire in July 2003 while trying to pull down the gate in the fence at Anin, just outside of Jenin. (Did she teach St. Onge?)
Katherine Elliott Sheetz—US
David Schermerhorn—US He was part of the crew of the Free Gaza on its maiden voyage to Gaza in August 2008.
Furkan Dogan—US 19 year old of Turkish descent
Petter Venner—GB (Independent)
Hasan Nowarah—GB (ditto)
Kevin Neish—Canadian
Kenneth Nichols O’Keefe—US Gulf War vet

328 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:04:46pm

re: #322 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't know if one could say the same for the Nashville music establishment, though.

Best. Print ad. Ever.

I keep a copy of that pic of Johnny in my photobucket account, along with a few other 'finger' images.

One of my favorites, of course, is Bob Weir.

329 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:05:16pm

re: #324 LudwigVanQuixote

married? may you merit to build a beit ne'eman b'yisrael!

330 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:05:27pm

re: #313 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, I think I found what I am looking for... I want a big, shiny and artistic cup that sits with some regality and says "we are now seriously going to do a mitzvah!" I want to thunk it down with some authority and be able to share wine from it properly.

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

or

[Link: www.silverheaven.com...]

For a regular kiddush cup, I do not recommend something that holds more than 5 or 6 oz. Those goblets are really meant to be "Elijah Cups" at the seder, not for a regular Shabbat.

If you have a bunch of guests, impress the hell out of them with a wine fountain.

331 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:06:00pm

re: #328 darthstar

I keep a copy of that pic of Johnny in my photobucket account, along with a few other 'finger' images.

One of my favorites, of course, is Bob Weir.

Image: bobweirtm7.jpg

332 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:06:30pm

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

Click the linky for more info, or you can go here for more pics (NSFW).

333 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:06:35pm

re: #327 MandyManners

List of terrorists/tersymps

Petter Venner—GB
Hasan Nowarah—GB
Amin Abou Rashed—Holland Hamas leader in Holland
Bishop Hilarion Capucci (smuggled arms to PLO in 70s)
Inge Hoger—German mp
Annete Groth—ditto
Henning Mankell—Swedish writer
Mairead Corrigan Maguire—North Ireland Nobel Peace winner
Hedy Epstein—US fled Nazis in 1939
Muhammad Al-Baltaji –Egyptian parliament member of MB
Hazem Farouq—ditto
Sheikh Muhammad Al-Hazmi—Yemen member of Parliament MB
Talat Hussan—Pakistan, TV anchor
Raza Mehmood Agha—ditto, TV producer
Nadeem Ahmed Khan—ditto, “aid” group
Fintan Lane—Irish writer and historian
Edward Peck—US Ambassador Edward Peck—Deputy Director of the Cabinet Task Force on Terrorism at the Reagan White House and State Department Liaison Officer to the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon
Joe Meadors—US signalman on USS Liberty
Paul Larudee—US cofounder of Free Palestine Movement, Free Gaza Movement
Gene St. Onge—US engineer
Janet Kobren—US cofounder of FPM
Greta Berlin—US cofounder of the FGM; Greta has spent 30 years teaching engineers and scientists how to design and deliver presentations. She has been in the West Bank three times since 2003 and was wounded by Israeli gunfire in July 2003 while trying to pull down the gate in the fence at Anin, just outside of Jenin. (Did she teach St. Onge?)
Katherine Elliott Sheetz—US
David Schermerhorn—US He was part of the crew of the Free Gaza on its maiden voyage to Gaza in August 2008.
Furkan Dogan—US 19 year old of Turkish descent
Petter Venner—GB (Independent)
Hasan Nowarah—GB (ditto)
Kevin Neish—Canadian
Kenneth Nichols O’Keefe—US Gulf War vet

A good title for that list: "The Muslim Brotherhood and its Useful Idiots".

334 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:06:58pm

re: #320 Kefirah

you absolutely didn't ask me, but since i previously mentioned downdinging trolls while shopping for kiddush wine, i feel entitled to weigh in.

love the third one.

I hate to upset all the gamers but there are no trolls... there are small ugly hateful people with big noses that live under bridges & scare children, but there are no trolls.

335 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:07:11pm

re: #61 avanti

Recent administrations have tried to funnel the aid away from Hamas, we don't just write a check. I'm not saying they don't hijack food aid for example and sell it, it could be a problem.

They also play politics with aid, support Hamas, or get nothing:

"People who are not in with Hamas don't see any of the relief goods or the gifts of money," Khadar says. On the sand dune where his house once perched, there is now an emergency shelter. The shelter is made of concrete blocks that Khadar dug from the rubble, and the roof is the canvas of a tent that provided the family with shelter for the first summer after the war. "Hamas supporters get prefabricated housing, furnishings and paid work. We get nothing," Khadar complains.

Hamas Members Take and Distribute 'at Their Own Discretion'

The reason his family receives nothing: Like many of his neighbors, Khadar is a die-hard supporter of the Fatah party, the sworn political enemy of the more radical Islamists in Hamas.

When W Germany wanted to help E Germans without helping Big Brother, they'd send things such as oranges. Too many oranges, all at a time, for any use other than to distribute them to the masses.

Of course, the E German regime could have restricted oranges to Party members, but then they'd have had to throw the rest away. There's limits to what even a totalitarian state can do.

If the West wants to ease the lives ("the suffering" is overly dramatic. Gazans have a higher material standard of living than half the world, anyhow) of the residents of Gaza, the quickest way to do it would be to invade, kill off Hamas, and walk away. But short of that, sending in consumer perishables would be uncontroversial and Hamas would have difficulty converting oranges to Katyusha apples. Not all that has value is fungible.

336 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:07:27pm

re: #331 Gus 802

Image: bobweirtm7.jpg

the guy is nobody...he can't play a guitar or write songs, he's pretty much Garcia's pooch

337 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:07:29pm

Anyone know about ice makers? Does that have an electric valve that shuts off the water when you unplug the ice maker? This would be in a frig.

338 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:07:42pm

re: #313 LudwigVanQuixote

They're all lovely, and different styles.

339 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:07:48pm

re: #309 albusteve

he's dirt in Jamaica Hendersonville.


Just for accuracy./

340 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:08:11pm

re: #336 albusteve

the guy is nobody...he can't play a guitar or write songs, he's pretty much Garcia's pooch

Uh oh!

[Jumps in foxhole]

341 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:08:20pm

re: #332 Racer X

Click the linky for more info, or you can go here for more pics (NSFW).

Russians: proof that vodka impedes brain function.

/

342 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:09:16pm

re: #337 Gus 802

Anyone know about ice makers? Does that have an electric valve that shuts off the water when you unplug the ice maker? This would be in a frig.

my good buddy in Dallas sells ice cubes, and the machines that make them....I'll call him pronto

343 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:09:18pm

re: #331 Gus 802

Image: bobweirtm7.jpg

I've met Bobby a few times...great guy. Phil is, too.

344 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:09:42pm

re: #337 Gus 802

Anyone know about ice makers? Does that have an electric valve that shuts off the water when you unplug the ice maker? This would be in a frig.

Water is still on (pressurized) all the way up to the solenoid inside the ice maker. The solenoid only opens when the ice bin gets low and more ice is called for.

345 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:10:33pm

re: #315 researchok

I want to thunk it down with some authority and be able to share wine from it properly


If wine was meant to be drunk out of a cup it wouldn't have been put in bottles.
Real men don't need no stinking cups.
///re: #318 prairiefire

I want to thunk it down with some authority and be able to share wine from it properly.

If wine was meant to be drunk out of a cup, it wouldn't have been put into bottles.
Real men don't need no stinking cup.
///

346 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:10:33pm

re: #327 MandyManners

NJDHockeyfan has more from MB.

347 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:10:33pm

re: #325 HoosierHoops

That is only because there is no limits to love and friendship

That is the core of Shabbos. Honestly, every single holiday can be summarized by an idea or even one word. For Yom Kippur it is atonement. For Rosh Hashana, it is kingship. For Pesach, it is freedom. For Shabbos, the one that is more important than all the others, it is love.

I was not brought up observant. In fact, choosing to become so was a long process for me. I can easily remember what it all looked like from the "outside." I have some very dear friends in the department, who wondered at this process (and they still do!). It has led to many hours of debate and a strong desire on my part to try to dispel misconceptions.

None of my non-Jewish friends ever even thought to question why I would become more involved. It was always my Jewish colleagues who felt a need to "bring me back to my senses." They had put things like Shabbos observance into the pile of things they considered weird and perhaps backwards. I think some were perhaps even a little ashamed of things that were too overtly Jewish, like they were embarrassed to be associated with a crazy uncle who was making a spectacle of himself. When their colleague, another physicist (who is supposed to use the scientific method) evaluated things differently, there was an implicit challenge. At the end of the day, I did not try to (nor did I) convince anyone to be more observant. I believe that I managed to convince them that there are good reasons why a sane person might do these things and that it was possible to not be crazy if you do.

So, that said, why do it? I mean why go nuts every weekend?

First off, the purpose of Shabbos is not to "kick back." It is not time off.
It is about time out. All of the great preparation that you scurry to do before Shabbos is to make certain that once Shabbos comes, you have nothing to distract you from Shabbos. Also, all of that preparation puts you into a head space of anticipation for the event.

Many Jewish holidays have a theme that can be summed up in one word. For Pesach it is "freedom." For Sukkot it is "trust." For Shabbos, it is love. I will come back to that theme in a bit, but for now, lets talk about the space you set up to explore it.

Not playing with the lights also means you do not use the television or the phone (you could call 911 if you had to of course). There is much, much to be said about the outside world and all of its distractions just going away. It disappears and you focus on what really matters.
Which is more important, spending real quality time with friends and family, or "must see" TV?

All of the prohibited activities are there so that you plan ahead and create an environment where you do not need to worry about any distractions. What's for dinner? It's already taken care of. Where are we going tonight? We are going to have a fabulous meal and talk and sing and bond a lot. Then we are going to reflect over all of our blessings and be happy. Did you hear about the latest atrocity on the news? No, I did not. I will worry about it on Sunday if I must. Did you hear the latest gossip about so and so? No, I don't like gossip during the week and especially not now.

So what is left?

Spiritual and emotional renewal, intense bonding with friends and family, personal time to reflect on the transcendent and the spiritual, and a whole battery of rituals and traditions to put you into the mindset to do so. There is a bond of G-d, community, family and individual to be explored and refreshed. It is all about relationships and identity in the most healthy and positive sense.

In a word, what is left are reflections of all of the acts of love you have ever received.

348 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:11:16pm

re: #128 Ojoe

A current image of the sun, within the last few hours.

That's a lot of energy there. Drill, baby, drill!

349 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:11:16pm

re: #333 Dark_Falcon

A good title for that list: "The Muslim Brotherhood and its Useful Idiots".

Sounds like a garage band.

350 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:11:18pm

re: #327 MandyManners
Hospitals in Gaza report flood of new babies being named Erdogan, replacing Yasser. (that's my baby_)

351 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:11:28pm

re: #344 Racer X

Water is still on (pressurized) all the way up to the solenoid inside the ice maker. The solenoid only opens when the ice bin gets low and more ice is called for.

Oh. I took out the ice maker. There's the tube for the water and it's open but no water is coming out. However, the electrical plug has three prongs so I'm assuming when I unplug that it shuts off the valve down at the bottom of the frig.

352 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:11:49pm

re: #343 darthstar

I've met Bobby a few times...great guy. Phil is, too.

I've met Lesh a couple of times....seemed like a decent guy, but maybe it was because he opened for Little Feat and was otherwise persona non grata....Feat dig him and his band, but I don't know why

353 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:11:53pm

re: #336 albusteve

the guy is nobody...he can't play a guitar or write songs, he's pretty much Garcia's pooch

Dude, just go fuck yourself already. Bobby plays rhythm guitar, always liked and preferred that, but he was one of the most experimental players in the band during their space jams...that's when he really shined.

And Jerry's dead...has been for 15 years now.

354 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:11:59pm

re: #337 Gus 802

Anyone know about ice makers? Does that have an electric valve that shuts off the water when you unplug the ice maker? This would be in a frig.

There is a little man inside who controls it all. You'd best ask him.

355 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:12:16pm

re: #351 Gus 802

Oh. I took out the ice maker. There's the tube for the water and it's open but no water is coming out. However, the electrical plug has three prongs so I'm assuming when I unplug that it shuts off the valve down at the bottom of the frig.

no

356 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:12:27pm

re: #344 Racer X

Water is still on (pressurized) all the way up to the solenoid inside the ice maker. The solenoid only opens when the ice bin gets low and more ice is called for.

Also - there is a solenoid valve that opens when you push on the lever to get water out the front. No power - no water from the front.

357 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:12:32pm

re: #350 tradewind

Hospitals in Gaza report flood of new babies being named Erdogan, replacing Yasser. (that's my baby_)

Even the girls?

358 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:12:45pm

re: #337 Gus 802
Do you mean a built in icemaker in a frig?
Usually there's a little lever/bar that you can raise to shut off or start ice production, independent of unplugging the frig.

359 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:13:06pm

re: #328 darthstar

I'll trade you an Aguilera and a Depp for your Weir.

/That's just what the world needs, IMO. Collectible Celebrity Middle Finger Cards.

360 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:13:07pm

re: #353 darthstar

Dude, just go fuck yourself already. Bobby plays rhythm guitar, always liked and preferred that, but he was one of the most experimental players in the band during their space jams...that's when he really shined.

And Jerry's dead...has been for 15 years now.

but is he grateful?

361 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:13:31pm

re: #351 Gus 802

Oh. I took out the ice maker. There's the tube for the water and it's open but no water is coming out. However, the electrical plug has three prongs so I'm assuming when I unplug that it shuts off the valve down at the bottom of the frig.

Yes - there is probably another solenoid inside that feeds the water spigot.

362 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:13:46pm

re: #352 albusteve

I've met Lesh a couple of times...seemed like a decent guy, but maybe it was because he opened for Little Feat and was otherwise persona non grata...Feat dig him and his band, but I don't know why

Phil loves a good long improvisational jam. That's his specialty. Him and that six-string tree he calls a bass...fuckin' awesome to watch him orchestrate a show.

363 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:13:47pm

re: #358 tradewind

Do you mean a built in icemaker in a frig?
Usually there's a little lever/bar that you can raise to shut off or start ice production, independent of unplugging the frig.

Yeah. That I know. I just took it out because we have a power outage and it made a big blob of ice in it. So, I'm wondering if the heating element died or if I'm not getting water or both.

364 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:14:15pm

re: #359 Slumbering Behemoth

I'll trade you an Aguilera and a Depp for your Weir.

/That's just what the world needs, IMO. Collectible Celebrity Middle Finger Cards.

Sold!

365 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:14:33pm

re: #357 MandyManners

Even the girls?

no all girls are named you! it makes it so much easier.

366 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:14:36pm

re: #353 darthstar

Dude, just go fuck yourself already. Bobby plays rhythm guitar, always liked and preferred that, but he was one of the most experimental players in the band during their space jams...that's when he really shined.

And Jerry's dead...has been for 15 years now.

Weir never shined in the twenty some times I saw him play

367 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:14:50pm

I wonder where jamesfirecat is? On his "I just graduated" bender?

368 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:14:55pm

re: #337 Gus 802

Anyone know about ice makers? Does that have an electric valve that shuts off the water when you unplug the ice maker? This would be in a frig.

Only know they the part most likely to break.

I know from experience.

369 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:15:13pm

re: #354 MandyManners
And he's very entertaining.

Youtube Video
370 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:15:47pm

re: #367 prairiefire

I wonder where jamesfirecat is? On his "I just graduated" bender?

I always wonder whatever happened to Shug...I liked that guy

371 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:15:52pm

re: #349 MandyManners

Sounds like a garage band.

They can't practice in the garage, because that where they build the rockets.

/not really kidding

372 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:16:07pm

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

Nicely put. Non-observant people can arrive at analogous conclusions. No checking your email during a hike in the mountains. No transistor radio belting out a song during lunch at the summit. It's just not---.--.-.--.-.--.-.--.-.-.--

kosher.

373 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:16:14pm

re: #368 researchok

Only know they the part most likely to break.

I know from experience.

Yeah, it's kind of flimsy. All else fails I'll just call the landlord.

374 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:16:30pm

re: #366 albusteve

Weir never shined in the twenty some times I saw him play

Sometimes it takes a good 40 shows before you catch him on fire. :)

375 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:16:32pm

re: #363 Gus 802
The little cubey things get stopped up sometimes on mine, at least on the one in the fridge. I don't use it all that much, and it sulks. I squirt hot water on 'em from a squeeze bottle to break it up.

376 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:16:38pm

re: #330 Alouette

I know what you mean about an Elijah cup. I suppose that if you go by the minhag of filling any given cup to the brim, you have a very good point.

I have this image though in my mind of passing it on and passing on the other one. To the son who gets the heirloom, I will point out how it is small, and how it is the one thing their great great grandfather kept with him from his journey to America. It had been in the family for generations even before he came, and his family wanted him to sell it if he needed to to get here. But he found a way to keep it. Just a little silver cup, it meant almost everything to him - and five generations after who never forgot who they were.

But what do I give the other boy?

I want it to contrast. I want him to not feel left out. I want him to get the big strong cup that daddy used every Shabbos.

377 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:16:59pm

re: #326 albusteve

I agree with Johnny on that one

As do I. They wouldn't play his stuff on the radio, nor even acknowledge his existence, and he still wins the Grammy for Best Country Album for that year.

378 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:17:07pm

re: #363 Gus 802

Yeah. That I know. I just took it out because we have a power outage and it made a big blob of ice in it. So, I'm wondering if the heating element died or if I'm not getting water or both.

I was just working on my fridge yesterday.

What is malfunctioning?

379 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:17:22pm

re: #374 darthstar

Sometimes it takes a good 40 shows before you catch him on fire. :)

good one...
you're right,
you win

380 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:17:55pm

re: #378 Racer X

I was just working on my fridge yesterday.

What is malfunctioning?

Stopped making ice. I took it out and ran some hot water on the "ice blob" and now I'm letting it dry.

381 tradewind  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:17:58pm

Craptastic, power's about to go out here! Darn it....
Big boomers.
later.

382 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:18:02pm

re: #294 researchok

Because it's wrapped in real intel at times.

Oil isn't the only thing the Saudis have us hooked on.

I'm pretty sure we can do without the "real intel wrapped in phony intel" part.

The Saudis cannot afford another oil boycott, else they would have repeated the experiment by now.

OPEC is hardly monolithic anymore. No power to boycott. So my question remains: what could the Saudis possibly do to us, in case of a suspension of aid to the Palestinians, that they haven't already done? Send us more bogus students? Bush was the guy who agreed to up the ante on that one. Increase the anti-Israel rhetoric? How could that be accomplished?

383 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:18:04pm

re: #374 darthstar

Sometimes it takes a good 40 shows before you catch him on fire. :)

Depends on the acid.

384 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:18:07pm

re: #372 lostlakehiker

Nicely put. Non-observant people can arrive at analogous conclusions. No checking your email during a hike in the mountains. No transistor radio belting out a song during lunch at the summit. It's just not---.--.-.--.-.--.-.--.-.-.--

kosher.

I've realized that, like all of God's "suggestions" or laws, kosher is the healthiest and most sensible option. No artificial crap? Ok.

385 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:18:08pm

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

Nicely said. Under a very different tradition I was taught something similar. "Time out not time off".

Essential to retain a certain balance of life and mind.

Nice.

386 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:18:43pm

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

I always get this "wow" feeling when you or SFZ explain these kinds of things. Is there a good "For Idiots" kind of book out there that could explain even more of it to someone like me?

Thanks,

William

387 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:18:48pm

re: #376 LudwigVanQuixote

I know what you mean about an Elijah cup. I suppose that if you go by the minhag of filling any given cup to the brim, you have a very good point.

I have this image though in my mind of passing it on and passing on the other one. To the son who gets the heirloom, I will point out how it is small, and how it is the one thing their great great grandfather kept with him from his journey to America. It had been in the family for generations even before he came, and his family wanted him to sell it if he needed to to get here. But he found a way to keep it. Just a little silver cup, it meant almost everything to him - and five generations after who never forgot who they were.

But what do I give the other boy?

I want it to contrast. I want him to not feel left out. I want him to get the big strong cup that daddy used every Shabbos.

Get him a similar sized one, but engraved with name and possibly a favorite verse. He'll treasure that.

388 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:19:12pm

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

Not playing with the lights also means you do not use the television or the phone (you could call 911 if you had to of course). There is much, much to be said about the outside world and all of its distractions just going away. It disappears and you focus on what really matters.

I think focusing on friends and family exclusively for one day a week, is a marvelous idea. Our "modern" world can get too consuming.

389 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:19:13pm

re: #379 albusteve

good one...
you're right,
you win

Hey, I love all the boys in the band, but I do admit, Bobby can screw up the lyrics to just about any song. And when he grabs an acoustic guitar, I always cringe, because I know he'll turn to face his amp at some point in the song and generate some unplanned feedback.

390 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:19:29pm

re: #386 wlewisiii

herman wouk's book is quite excellent. also anything by heschel.

391 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:19:57pm

re: #380 Gus 802

Stopped making ice. I took it out and ran some hot water on the "ice blob" and now I'm letting it dry.

OK.

Do you see a lever that rotates around and round? That stops rotating when the ice bin is full. If the blob impeded that lever then that is your problem - melt the blob.

392 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:19:58pm

re: #377 Slumbering Behemoth

As do I. They wouldn't play his stuff on the radio, nor even acknowledge his existence, and he still wins the Grammy for Best Country Album for that year.

Nashville was the wannabe...Memphis was so corrupt it spread to Chicago, NOLA, Detroit, Cincy....every town that was recording music....the industry has always had a cancer

393 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:20:07pm

re: #365 brookly red

no all girls are named you! it makes it so much easier.

Reminds me of the Muslim Man's Remote Control.

(I'm gonna' get My Favorites back one day.)

394 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:20:14pm

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig...Thank you..I heart'd it.. Lot's of wisdom there...
My dear friend...My view of God is so Simple.. It's what is in your heart..Your Faith..Who you are..how you treat people...Ten little old rules...
I know religion will hang the Son of Man on a Cross
I know Religion build upon Peter will molest young childen
I know Religion will compel a person to strap on a suicide belt in a pizza joint
I know religion has killed more people than any other reason in the history of mankind..
religion has nothing to do with the Spirit of God..I promise you

395 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:20:29pm

re: #367 prairiefire

I wonder where jamesfirecat is? On his "I just graduated" bender?

That was two weeks ago.

396 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:20:44pm

re: #376 LudwigVanQuixote

I am very happy for you! Creating a family is a gift. I've wanted to make my own tribe since I was 9. It takes a while to make a good match.

397 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:20:51pm

re: #387 researchok

Get him a similar sized one, but engraved with name and possibly a favorite verse. He'll treasure that.

I've thought of that. Given the history of the first cup though, I can't see another that is reminiscent of it being seen as anything but a "second prize." I want to differentiate, because I would want both boys to feel equally loved.

398 darthstar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:21:08pm

Now that this place is sounding half-sane again, I'll take a break...enjoy your evening, everyone. (good hockey game on right now, by the way)

Play nice.

399 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:21:08pm

re: #391 Racer X

OK.

Do you see a lever that rotates around and round? That stops rotating when the ice bin is full. If the blob impeded that lever then that is your problem - melt the blob.

OK, thanks. I'll find out here in a bit if that worked.

400 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:21:22pm

re: #388 Floral Giraffe

Not playing with the lights also means you do not use the television or the phone (you could call 911 if you had to of course). There is much, much to be said about the outside world and all of its distractions just going away. It disappears and you focus on what really matters.

I think focusing on friends and family exclusively for one day a week, is a marvelous idea. Our "modern" world can get too consuming.

That was true 3000 years ago as well when we started doing it.

401 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:21:29pm

re: #395 MandyManners

That was two weeks ago.

He could still be on that bender....

402 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:21:32pm

re: #369 tradewind

And he's very entertaining.

[Video]

I'm moving. I'm grooving.

403 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:21:38pm

re: #391 Racer X

OK.

Do you see a lever that rotates around and round? That stops rotating when the ice bin is full. If the blob impeded that lever then that is your problem - melt the blob.

Also - there may be a switch to turn the icemaker off - do that. No need to unplug the whole fridge.

Do NOT use a sharp ice pick to dislodge any ice!

404 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:21:47pm

re: #390 Kefirah

I've read some of Heschel's commentary before. Very thought provoking for me. I'll look for somehting from them. Thanks!

William

405 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:21:54pm

re: #349 MandyManners

Sounds like a garage band.

I bet they rock the casbah.

406 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:22:15pm

re: #383 Racer X

Depends on the acid.

please...I went to dead shows for 25 yrs and never dropped acid...the myth lives on....I could write a book on Dead shows alone

407 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:22:21pm

re: #396 prairiefire

I am very happy for you! Creating a family is a gift. I've wanted to make my own tribe since I was 9. It takes a while to make a good match.

Ohh by the way, these are hypothetical boys... I haven't married yet, but I am seriously heading in that direction. Amazing how you think of these things....

408 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:22:24pm

re: #371 Dark_Falcon

They can't practice in the garage, because that where they build the rockets.

/not really kidding

I thought they assembled the bomb vests in the garage.

409 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:22:36pm

re: #403 Racer X

Also - there may be a switch to turn the icemaker off - do that. No need to unplug the whole fridge.

Do NOT use a sharp ice pick to dislodge any ice!

Yep. It's all plastico.

410 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:22:40pm

re: #392 albusteve

The radio stations today are more interested in playing twang-pop than country/western.

Not that I'm a big fan of C/W, but I like it a hell of a lot better than twang-pop.

411 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:22:54pm

re: #380 Gus 802

Stopped making ice. I took it out and ran some hot water on the "ice blob" and now I'm letting it dry.

SHOOT YER FRIDGE.

412 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:23:00pm

re: #382 Cato the Elder

I'm pretty sure we can do without the "real intel wrapped in phony intel" part.

The Saudis cannot afford another oil boycott, else they would have repeated the experiment by now.

OPEC is hardly monolithic anymore. No power to boycott. So my question remains: what could the Saudis possibly do to us, in case of a suspension of aid to the Palestinians, that they haven't already done? Send us more bogus students? Bush was the guy who agreed to up the ante on that one. Increase the anti-Israel rhetoric? How could that be accomplished?

They could end their intel cooperation with us and have threatened to do so more than once.

413 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:23:16pm

re: #397 LudwigVanQuixote

I've thought of that. Given the history of the first cup though, I can't see another that is reminiscent of it being seen as anything but a "second prize." I want to differentiate, because I would want both boys to feel equally loved.

How about another piece of Judaica altogether? A silver menorah, for example?

414 brookly red  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:23:56pm

uh oh... the Dominican Inquisition. Gotta go.

415 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:24:09pm

re: #408 MandyManners

I thought they assembled the bomb vests in the garage.

No, that's in the attic. They also perform 'honor' killings in the basement.

/spits on Hamas

416 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:24:17pm

re: #411 MandyManners

Yer 'sposed to nuke it now a days. Or so I hear.

417 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:24:22pm

re: #401 Floral Giraffe

He could still be on that bender...

I think he's posted a bit lately. Coherently, too.

418 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:24:24pm

re: #406 albusteve

please...I went to dead shows for 25 yrs and never dropped acid...the myth lives on...I could write a book on Dead shows alone

I think we now know why Steve did not enjoy the Dead shows.

419 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:24:32pm

re: #413 researchok

re: #397 LudwigVanQuixote

and you might have girls, too. candlesticks are always appreciated.

420 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:25:23pm

re: #409 Gus 802

Yep. It's all plastico.

That plus the pressurized refrigerant lines are just under the plastic.

421 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:26:05pm

re: #397 LudwigVanQuixote

I've thought of that. Given the history of the first cup though, I can't see another that is reminiscent of it being seen as anything but a "second prize." I want to differentiate, because I would want both boys to feel equally loved.

You could also be shopping, once you know how many boys you need a cup for. You could then incorporate each cup into the family tradition, in different ways, to make them "more or less" equal. I think it's also about how they would see the cups used over the years, that would create the sentiment.
My 2 cents, worth what you paid!

422 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:26:08pm

re: #386 wlewisiii

I always get this "wow" feeling when you or SFZ explain these kinds of things. Is there a good "For Idiots" kind of book out there that could explain even more of it to someone like me?

Thanks,

William

Hmmm, the best book I have ever read on the subject is This is my God, by Herman Wouk.

It gives something of an overview, but a lot of the "why bother?"

For more detailed stuff, R. Benjamin Blech actually wrote an idiot's guide to Judaism. For more spiritual stuff on a basic level, I would recommend What the Angel Taught You by R. Noah Weinberg z''l

423 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:26:17pm

re: #382 Cato the Elder

I'm pretty sure we can do without the "real intel wrapped in phony intel" part.

The Saudis cannot afford another oil boycott, else they would have repeated the experiment by now.

OPEC is hardly monolithic anymore. No power to boycott. So my question remains: what could the Saudis possibly do to us, in case of a suspension of aid to the Palestinians, that they haven't already done? Send us more bogus students? Bush was the guy who agreed to up the ante on that one. Increase the anti-Israel rhetoric? How could that be accomplished?

Points well taken.

To answer your question, we want to be loved (really exemplified by Obama). Our State Dept has created that scenario.

We're being played- and I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

424 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:26:24pm

re: #413 researchok

How about another piece of Judaica altogether? A silver menorah, for example?

For girls.

425 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:26:28pm

re: #410 Slumbering Behemoth

The radio stations today are more interested in playing twang-pop than country/western.

Not that I'm a big fan of C/W, but I like it a hell of a lot better than twang-pop.

find the beginnings in the 30s and 40s....interesting stuff how it evolved, forget now and trace the roots....I promise you won't be disappointed, especially with Youtube

426 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:26:48pm

re: #422 LudwigVanQuixote

jinx re: herman wouk.

427 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:27:18pm

re: #405 Mad Al-Jaffee

I bet they rock the casbah.

No, that boogie sound was banned.


Youtube Video
428 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:27:26pm

re: #419 Kefirah

re: #397 LudwigVanQuixote

and you might have girls, too. candlesticks are always appreciated.

And I would love girls too. I imagine I will make one of the more protective fathers in history...(again, please G-d).

429 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:27:49pm

re: #418 Racer X

I think we now know why Steve did not enjoy the Dead shows.

there were many good shows...don't sully my rep (I can do that myself)

430 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:28:26pm

re: #416 Slumbering Behemoth

Yer 'sposed to nuke it now a days. Or so I hear.

That's make your condiments glow.

431 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:28:59pm

re: #428 LudwigVanQuixote

there need to be more fathers such as you will be.

432 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:29:19pm

re: #324 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah that is another part of it. I am seriously thinking of getting married right now and honestly if I have more than one child (please Hashem) I can't have just the heirloom cup to have memories with and pass along.

There comes a time in a chess game when one of the serious options is to push a pawn and queen it, if that can be done. Once this is set in motion, there is no going back, for the opponent will stop the effort given the tiniest respite.

In chess, you are perfectly free to move the pieces anywhere the physics of the game will permit. But within the context of trying to win, some decisions are irrevocable. Marriage is like that.

Freedom includes the choice to sign away a lot of your freedom and commit, while without that choice, freedom becomes almost trivial. What do you want for dessert, sir?

433 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:29:43pm

On a different musical note...

I don't like gangsta rap at all, but I have to admit this "cover" is bad ass.

434 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:30:09pm

re: #424 LudwigVanQuixote

For girls.

How about a Passover Seder Plate? Covers all the bases.

435 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:30:26pm

re: #434 researchok

or a tzedakah box.

436 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:30:37pm

re: #427 MandyManners

No, that boogie sound was banned.

[Video]

Great tune. UnPC nowadays, but that's part of its charm.

437 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:30:45pm

re: #428 LudwigVanQuixote

Good evening Ludwig!
Just a little heads up. This evening Morgan Freeman is doing good science work. Not the science, the translation to the rest of us... brilliantly.
Morgan Freemans Through The Wormhole.
Sc channel.

438 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:31:14pm

re: #433 Slumbering Behemoth

On a different musical note...

I don't like gangsta rap at all, but I have to admit this "cover" is bad ass.

the Stones have been gangster rappin since 1965

439 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:32:14pm

re: #431 Kefirah

there need to be more fathers such as you will be.

Awww shucks...

440 freetoken  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:32:17pm

re: #382 Cato the Elder

The Saudis cannot afford another oil boycott, else they would have repeated the experiment by now.

On a related topic, put into the Pages a link to the latest BP Statistical Review of World Energy, for 2010, for those who want lots of info on the status of world energy supplies and consumption.

OPEC never did try another stunt for several reasons, not the least of which that the individual countries don't follow the rules. It's an nearly impotent "cartel". In that the cartel can keep any individual nation from dumping too much oil on the market when prices are falling, thus making sure prices don't fall too low, might be something they are doing, but I'm not even convinced of that.

441 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:32:18pm

re: #430 MandyManners

Essential for making sandwiches during a power outage.

442 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:32:22pm

Blackhawks still leading 3-2 with only 4:42 left in the 3rd period. Come on, Hawks, put this series away!

443 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:32:26pm

re: #437 Rightwingconspirator

Good evening Ludwig!
Just a little heads up. This evening Morgan Freeman is doing good science work. Not the science, the translation to the rest of us... brilliantly.
Morgan Freemans Through The Wormhole.
Sc channel.

I'm watching it!

444 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:33:18pm

re: #433 Slumbering Behemoth

On a different musical note...

I don't like gangsta rap at all, but I have to admit this "cover" is bad ass.

Despite my ever-vigilant, tender-loving care, The Kid has become a fan of Rap. He has burned about 20 hours of songs from NBA/NFL PS2/3/PSP games and various NBA/NFL sites.

Yeah, my grandmother thought Elvis was TEH DEBIL.

445 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:33:26pm

re: #438 albusteve

You're gonna wanna kill me, but I don't much care for the Stones.

446 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:33:46pm

re: #436 Dark_Falcon

Great tune. UnPC nowadays, but that's part of its charm.

Fuck P.C..

447 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:34:04pm

re: #445 Slumbering Behemoth

You're gonna wanna kill me, but I don't much care for the Stones.

Great minds think alike.

448 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:34:10pm

I'll be Bach.

449 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:34:14pm

re: #446 MandyManners

Fuck P.C..

Quite Concur.

450 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:34:37pm

re: #440 freetoken

On a related topic, put into the Pages a link to the latest BP Statistical Review of World Energy, for 2010, for those who want lots of info on the status of world energy supplies and consumption.

OPEC never did try another stunt for several reasons, not the least of which that the individual countries don't follow the rules. It's an nearly impotent "cartel". In that the cartel can keep any individual nation from dumping too much oil on the market when prices are falling, thus making sure prices don't fall too low, might be something they are doing, but I'm not even convinced of that.

All true, but I don't think anyone really wants to test what would happen with another OPEC boycott.

451 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:34:37pm

re: #441 Slumbering Behemoth

Essential for making sandwiches during a power outage.

Gives those deviled eggs a certain edge, too.

452 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:35:12pm

re: #443 HoosierHoops

Science re affirms m faith in God.
People tend to hurt my faith in religion.
But then from time to time the people re affirm my faith in us people.

453 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:35:22pm

re: #450 Charles

All true, but I don't think anyone really wants to test what would happen with another OPEC boycott.

Our economy could not take it right now.

454 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:35:25pm

re: #445 Slumbering Behemoth

You're gonna wanna kill me, but I don't much care for the Stones.

a lot of people don't...that's cool, but give them their props...they have done it all, and far better than anybody in their time

455 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:35:27pm

re: #422 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks for the titles. Time to hit the library web site for some requests :)

William

456 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:35:55pm

The Flyers score to tie the game 3-3. Good playing, but I don't have to like it.

457 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:35:55pm

re: #446 MandyManners

Fuck P.C..

in bed!

458 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:36:08pm

re: #455 wlewisiii

Thanks for the titles. Time to hit the library web site for some requests :)

William

You are very welcome.

459 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:36:29pm

re: #437 Rightwingconspirator

Good evening Ludwig!
Just a little heads up. This evening Morgan Freeman is doing good science work. Not the science, the translation to the rest of us... brilliantly.
Morgan Freemans Through The Wormhole.
Sc channel.

Sounds fantastic!

460 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:36:51pm

re: #453 prairiefire

Our economy could not take it right now.

No, we could take it. We'd go into a depression, but we'd survive. They wouldn't.

461 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:37:04pm

re: #434 researchok

re: #435 Kefirah

Great ideas.

462 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:37:35pm

re: #450 Charles

All true, but I don't think anyone really wants to test what would happen with another OPEC boycott.

The Saudis also count on that sentiment.

Still, given today's global economic problems there would be real outrage directed at the Saudis/OPEC. They are still fighting for 'honor' and equality.

A boycott would hurt them in ways other than financial.

463 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:37:52pm

re: #376 LudwigVanQuixote

I know what you mean about an Elijah cup. I suppose that if you go by the minhag of filling any given cup to the brim, you have a very good point.

I have this image though in my mind of passing it on and passing on the other one. To the son who gets the heirloom, I will point out how it is small, and how it is the one thing their great great grandfather kept with him from his journey to America. It had been in the family for generations even before he came, and his family wanted him to sell it if he needed to to get here. But he found a way to keep it. Just a little silver cup, it meant almost everything to him - and five generations after who never forgot who they were.

But what do I give the other boy?

I want it to contrast. I want him to not feel left out. I want him to get the big strong cup that daddy used every Shabbos.

You're planning already on having 2 sons? LOL.

464 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:38:01pm

re: #444 MandyManners

Not much you can do about it, I think. Nobody wanted me listening to the stuff I did when I was young. The main difference though is that most of the metal/rock bands I listened to in the '80s actually did sing about teh debil. I thought it was cheesy then, and still do, but I have always been more about the music than the lyrics.

Anyway, even though I rebelled and listened to all that debil music, I never once felt the urge to worship evil or sacrifice virgins.

465 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:38:24pm

re: #459 LudwigVanQuixote

A unified theory is discussed now... BBL!

466 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:40:18pm

re: #454 albusteve

a lot of people don't...that's cool, but give them their props...they have done it all, and far better than anybody in their time

I don't know about all that, but they do have some very good tunes in their history that even I can appreciate.

467 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:41:45pm

Two minutes left in Game 6 of the Stanley Cup playoffs...all tied up at 3...possible overtime. It doesn't get much better than this.

Evening lizards!

468 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:42:37pm

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

Two minutes left in Game 6 of the Stanley Cup playoffs...all tied up at 3...possible overtime. It doesn't get much better than this.

Evening lizards!

I'm watching it too. Great game. Go BlackHawks! This Year is Next Year!

469 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:43:15pm

re: #463 Alouette

You're planning already on having 2 sons? LOL.

Well praying someday... Besides, a daughter might like the big cup as well, she could use it at her wedding.

470 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:43:22pm

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

You see, this is what happens when I let my tv collect dust. I end up missing the odd hockey games that aren't on cable.

471 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:44:25pm

re: #463 Alouette

You're planning already on having 2 sons? LOL.

Ohh and for the record, this is all my lips to G-d's ears, but I would like two of each. Two sons and two daughters.

472 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:44:35pm

re: #470 Slumbering Behemoth

You see, this is what happens when I let my tv collect dust. I end up missing the odd hockey games that aren't on cable.

You are missing a masterpiece.

473 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:44:51pm

so i'm sitting at a coffee bar in houston, and two gentlemen at the table behind from me just said:

"the jews should go back to poland and germany."

glad to see anti.semitism alive and well.

474 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:44:53pm

re: #459 LudwigVanQuixote

The Exceptional Theory Of Everything. Gary Leese (?)

475 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:45:05pm

re: #466 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't know about all that, but they do have some very good tunes in their history that even I can appreciate.

just playing the Blues

Youtube Video

they are so good right here that one song alone would make them money in the times where this song comes...they are riffin on a 90yr old groove

476 Linden Arden  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:45:30pm

re: #467 NJDhockeyfan

Two minutes left in Game 6 of the Stanley Cup playoffs...all tied up at 3...possible overtime. It doesn't get much better than this.

Evening lizards!

Gonna be a great sports month.

World Cup, Stanley Finals, NBA Finals, US Open at Pebble, baseball, etc.

Love Stanley Cup OT!!!!!

477 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:45:58pm

re: #473 Kefirah

so i'm sitting at a coffee bar in houston, and two gentlemen at the table behind from me just said:

"the jews should go back to poland and germany."

glad to see anti.semitism alive and well.

How charming...

Someday I really hope Texas does leave, and they don't let OK hit their ass on the way out.

478 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:47:00pm

Overtime!

479 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:47:12pm

And the games goes to re: #473 Kefirah

so i'm sitting at a coffee bar in houston, and two gentlemen at the table behind from me just said:

"the jews should go back to poland and germany."

glad to see anti.semitism alive and well.

Did you at least give him a piece of your mind?

480 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:47:13pm

Oof. 2.5 hours of tennis and it's bleeping humid outside. I'm beat.

Nice work on the scoop, Charles. Top-notch stuff.

481 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:47:29pm

re: #449 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

I agree with your concurrence.

482 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:48:07pm

re: #479 Dark_Falcon

Please excuse the botch a t the top of the post, which was going to be about the hockey game going into overtime.

PIMF

483 Linden Arden  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:48:08pm

And that Washington Nats rookie?

Best stuff since Steve Carlton went 27-10 for a LAST place team in the 70's.

484 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:48:12pm

re: #457 Mad Al-Jaffee

in bed!

You are one sick motherfucker.

485 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:49:13pm

re: #477 LudwigVanQuixote

I'd prefer the antisemites just move to Germany or Poland themselves, rather than take a chunk of the U.S. with them.

Not. One. Inch.

486 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:49:14pm

re: #464 Slumbering Behemoth

Not much you can do about it, I think. Nobody wanted me listening to the stuff I did when I was young. The main difference though is that most of the metal/rock bands I listened to in the '80s actually did sing about teh debil. I thought it was cheesy then, and still do, but I have always been more about the music than the lyrics.

Anyway, even though I rebelled and listened to all that debil music, I never once felt the urge to worship evil or sacrifice virgins.

So I figure now.

487 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:49:49pm

re: #473 Kefirah
I doubt the old farts having that conversation were Native Americans. I wonder what they'd think of someone suggesting that all the white people in Texas go back to Europe.

488 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:50:40pm

re: #471 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and for the record, this is all my lips to G-d's ears, but I would like two of each. Two sons and two daughters.

Like I said, you're gonna need a bigger table.

489 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:50:50pm

re: #485 Slumbering Behemoth

I'd prefer the antisemites just move to Germany or Poland themselves, rather than take a chunk of the U.S. with them.

Not. One. Inch.

Well said.

490 Kefirah  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:51:18pm

re: #479 Dark_Falcon

called him a chazar. with a smile. doubt he understood that i was calling him a pig. mostly i'm trying to control my blood.pressure. one jewess vs. three very passionate anti.semitic men = concerning situation.

re: #487 Mich-again

they aren't old, sadly. young men, my age.

491 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:51:22pm

Speaking of the little shit dear, I gotta' get him to bed.

He sassed the life guard today over a minor issue but, the thing is, HE SASSED THE LIFE GUARD. He's banned from the pool for a day.

Good going!

492 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:51:31pm

re: #483 Linden Arden

And that Washington Nats rookie?

Best stuff since Steve Carlton went 27-10 for a LAST place team in the 70's.

The kid has real stuff..Hope his elbow holds up..His curve is wicked...
He is exactly the same size and makeup as Woods when he came up..Blew his arm out....He is an exciting pitcher

493 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:51:38pm

Great hockey game tonight! I don't have a horse in this race, I'm just hoping for a game 7 because I don't want the season to end just yet.

494 albusteve  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:52:15pm

re: #485 Slumbering Behemoth

I'd prefer the antisemites just move to Germany or Poland themselves, rather than take a chunk of the U.S. with them.

Not. One. Inch.

if wishes were horses, beggers would ride

495 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:53:29pm

re: #477 LudwigVanQuixote

How charming...

Someday I really hope Texas does leave, and they don't let OK hit their ass on the way out.

Sorry, but I can't agree. I have good friends and family in both states.

496 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:53:31pm

re: #486 MandyManners

Music can be quite influential on a person, but the negative lyrics not so much. There are entire generations of kids who grew up listening to Black Sabbath or Iron Maiden without worshiping teh debil or other such nonsense.

I believe there are more important ways a parent can instill values in their child other than censoring the music they listen to.

497 Linden Arden  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:54:39pm

Hawks 3 Flyers 3

Sudden Death!

No TV timeouts - pure hockey!

I love it!

498 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:54:45pm

re: #495 Mad Al-Jaffee

Sorry, but I can't agree. I have good friends and family in both states.

Fair enough. I already liked SB's much better suggestion anyway.

499 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:55:01pm

re: #493 Mich-again

Great hockey game tonight! I don't have a horse in this race, I'm just hoping for a game 7 because I don't want the season to end just yet.

SMACK! You'll root for the Blackhawks to win tonight and you'll like it!

500 Querent  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:55:24pm

re: #378 Racer X

What is malfunctioning?

the shover robot

501 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:55:55pm

re: #489 LudwigVanQuixote

It's my thing. Berkeley wants to seceded? Texas wants to seceded? Bullshit! This is America, we do not tolerate secessionists!

502 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:55:59pm

re: #485 Slumbering Behemoth

I'd prefer the antisemites just move to Germany or Poland themselves, rather than take a chunk of the U.S. with them.

Not. One. Inch.

Speaking of anti-semites...

Youtube Video
503 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:57:18pm

There's a Facebook group called something like "Send Helen Thomas back to Lebanon."

504 jaunte  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:57:31pm

re: #501 Slumbering Behemoth

Texas doesn't want to secede. There are just a lot of idiots here.

505 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:58:25pm

re: #502 NJDhockeyfan

Oh Eff that Bee, right in her Gee Dee neck!

506 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:59:02pm

re: #487 Mich-again

I doubt the old farts having that conversation were Native Americans. I wonder what they'd think of someone suggesting that all the white people in Texas go back to Europe.

Actually, I have met several Native American men who held far right opinions.

507 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:59:13pm

re: #469 LudwigVanQuixote
2 sons (18 and 15 yo) and a 12 yo daughter here. I've enjoyed every minute of being a dad. The thing that amazes me and my wife the most is how 3 kids who grew up in the same house could turn out so different, each with thier own unique talents and interests. When you get your chance to be a dad, never miss an opportunity to get involved volunteering in their activities. It goes by so fast...

508 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 7:59:26pm

re: #502 NJDhockeyfan

Speaking of anti-semites...


[Video]

Use Rosie as a flotation device on the next ship to Gaza.

509 Linden Arden  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:00:03pm

re: #504 jaunte

Texas doesn't want to secede. There are just a lot of idiots here.

They should referendum it though. It could win.

Then tell the elderly they would lose SS/Medicare.

Which would make it a big loser.

510 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:01:09pm

My little boy jumped over three mats to kick his target at martial arts class (his first) today. I told him this was a sport he was born to play.

511 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:01:26pm

Game on!

512 jaunte  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:02:17pm

re: #509 Linden Arden

I think all the secession speech has just been politicians and wannabe politicians talking through their hat.

513 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:02:31pm

re: #504 jaunte

I know, but there were idiots spouting off about that a while ago.

What the secessionist idiots don't seem to understand is in the territory they want to split from the U.S., there are people there who are Americans who want to stay Americans. I would fight for those people if it came to it.

514 Linden Arden  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:02:37pm

re: #511 Mich-again

Game on!

Within six minutes a winner.

515 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:03:42pm

re: #501 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, and I don't fuckin' like antisemites either.

516 jaunte  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:04:08pm

re: #513 Slumbering Behemoth

The majority of us would, if it came to it. I think the whole issue is fantasy.

517 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:06:43pm

He shoots, he scores!
Hawks win the Stanley Cup!

518 Linden Arden  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:06:44pm

Hawks win Stanley!

519 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:07:03pm

Goal...Chicago wins!

520 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:07:07pm

Blackhawks are celebrating, but its not clear if they scored.

521 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:07:09pm

Congats to the Hawks!

522 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:07:44pm

re: #520 Dark_Falcon

It is now.

523 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:07:58pm

Next up this year....Cubs win the 'World Series!

524 Digital Display  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:08:26pm

re: #523 NJDhockeyfan

Next up this year...Cubs win the 'World Series!

Hawks are headlining Sportscenter

525 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:08:39pm

re: #523 NJDhockeyfan

The World what?

526 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:08:40pm

re: #496 Slumbering Behemoth

Music can be quite influential on a person, but the negative lyrics not so much. There are entire generations of kids who grew up listening to Black Sabbath or Iron Maiden without worshiping teh debil or other such nonsense.

I believe there are more important ways a parent can instill values in their child other than censoring the music they listen to.


I will censor many things because one of my many duties as a parent is to control his exposure to the world.

What if he had found a way to appreciate WhitePower music?

527 Linden Arden  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:08:46pm

re: #523 NJDhockeyfan

Next up this year...Cubs win the 'World Series!

Don't go crazy!

528 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:09:58pm

re: #526 MandyManners

I will censor many things because one of my many duties as a parent is to control and expandhis exposure to the world.

What if he had found a way to appreciate WhitePower music?

My 2 cents

529 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:10:21pm

Goal is confirmed and the Blackhawks have done it! They beat the Flyers 4-3 to win the Stanley Cup. It was the early 1960's the last time this happened, but it has happened. Here in Chicagoland, they're already setting off fireworks.

530 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:10:27pm

re: #526 MandyManners

I would say that would require long conversations coupled with history lessons. Simply saying "You can not have that" is not enough to ensure your kid follows the right path.

531 Linden Arden  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:11:29pm

Great sportsmanship for hockey champs.

They congratulate!

532 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:12:03pm

Is there some kind of big ice skating-related event going on tonight?

533 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:12:37pm

re: #531 Linden Arden

Great sportsmanship for hockey champs.

They congratulate!

Tradition. The NHL is a class act.

534 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:13:46pm

re: #531 Linden Arden

Great sportsmanship for hockey champs.

They congratulate!

I know! They pummel each other and then they all shake hands.

535 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:14:01pm

re: #532 Mad Al-Jaffee

-_-

gaze

536 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:14:05pm

re: #532 Mad Al-Jaffee

Is there some kind of big ice skating-related event going on tonight?

Yes...and the Bears won in extra innings!

537 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:14:28pm

re: #471 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and for the record, this is all my lips to G-d's ears, but I would like two of each. Two sons and two daughters.

Six sons and three daughters, here. Well, they're not here anymore, they're in the Big Apple, in Israel, in Canada, in Alabama...

538 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:14:50pm

There were some Vikings on the the Pittsburgh team.

539 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:15:04pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Yes...and the Bears won in extra innings!

Was it a curling match?

540 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:15:34pm

I'll just put it out there that there's a whole lot of really thoughtful and smart hip-hop out there. There's a lot of mass-market posturing crap, and then there's the smart bands that are making Real Art, that are still underground, Dälek comes to mind.

Youtube Video
541 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:15:35pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Yes...and the Bears won in extra innings!

I remember seeing skating bears at the Ice Capades when I was a kid!

542 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:15:36pm

re: #528 Floral Giraffe

My 2 cents

Expansion and constriction are but functions of control.

543 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:16:13pm

re: #533 NJDhockeyfan

Tradition. The NHL is a class act.

After the game ends things are classy. This was a brutal series, but the Blackhawks came out on top. Still, the Flyers were good sports who took the Hawks to the limit. Great series to cap off a great season.

544 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:16:13pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

re: #541 sattv4u2

I remember seeing skating bears at the Ice Capades when I was a kid!

no ,, wait ,, that was the other night after the 5th Vodka Martini ,,,, nevermind!

545 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:16:14pm

re: #412 Dark_Falcon

They could end their intel cooperation with us and have threatened to do so more than once.

And if the intel cooperation is essentially worthless.

I wouldn't give a fig for our intel community if I thought they depended in any sense of the word upon the Saudis!

546 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:17:08pm

re: #539 Mad Al-Jaffee

Was it a curling match?

what do hairdressers have to do with hockey!?!?

547 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:17:25pm

The Stanley Cup is by far the greatest championship trophy in sports.

548 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:18:00pm

re: #542 MandyManners

Expansion and constriction are but functions of control.

When they get older, you have to let go of control.

549 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:18:46pm

re: #547 NJDhockeyfan

The Stanley Cup is by far the greatest championship trophy in sports.

But can you drink out of it?

550 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:18:49pm

re: #546 sattv4u2

what do hairdressers have to do with hockey!?!?

They teach the newer players how to fight dirty without getting caught.

551 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:20:05pm

re: #530 Slumbering Behemoth

I would say that would require long conversations coupled with history lessons. Simply saying "You can not have that" is not enough to ensure your kid follows the right path.

Yes, and No.

I am the parent.

Full stop.

Why do you think that I'm involved at LGF?

I'm looking at the future.

552 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:20:10pm

re: #542 MandyManners

Expansion and constriction are but functions of control.

I think my favorite part of being an Aunt, is that I'm the one, the kids come to with a problem, they don't want to discuss with their parents. They know I will talk with them about anything. (They don't know, that 90% of the time I'm giving the same advice their parents would.) They know I am always available, and that I love them unconditionally, and I want the best for them.
Heck, I'm taking the oldest niece to a Pink Floyd concert this summer.
Gotta remember to buy earplugs!

*Get of of my lawn*!
Shakes cane at the kids!

553 bratwurst  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:20:11pm

re: #549 Mad Al-Jaffee

But can you drink out of it?

Yes!

554 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:20:15pm

re: #539 Mad Al-Jaffee

Was it a curling match?

"Curling" is what they do in Canada when they are too poor to afford hockey sticks, so they use brooms instead, and too poor to afford a hockey puck, so they use a big rock instead. They were even too poor to give their sport a manly man name.

555 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:21:09pm

Just finished watching "Avatar,' taking advantage of the 3 days off in a row I have this week... really decent movie... and come on, conservatives really complained about this? The basic plot has been done a hundred times (nee: Dune, Alien, you know, corporate exploitation of space/science)... if there was anything to complain about, it would be the hack-kneed dialog they wrote (or stole from some cheap WWII movie) for Colonel Miles Quaritch... all of his "make my day" styled rhetoric was getting BORING...

556 jaunte  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:21:15pm

re: #554 Alouette

I guess 'rockslide' was already taken.

557 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:21:56pm

re: #554 Alouette

"Curling" is what they do in Canada when they are too poor to afford hockey sticks, so they use brooms instead, and too poor to afford a hockey puck, so they use a big rock instead. They were even too poor to give their sport a manly man name.


I find curling WAY more interesting than hockey. Like watching billiards, or going through the move list of a great chess match.

558 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:22:36pm

re: #557 WindUpBird

I find curling WAY more interesting than hockey. Like watching billiards, or going through the move list of a great chess match.

I can't take all the shouting.

559 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:23:33pm

re: #555 Walter L. Newton

Just finished watching "Avatar,' taking advantage of the 3 days off in a row I have this week... really decent movie... and come on, conservatives really complained about this? The basic plot has been done a hundred times (nee: Dune, Alien, you know, corporate exploitation of space/science)... if there was anything to complain about, it would be the hack-kneed dialog they wrote (or stole from some cheap WWII movie) for Colonel Miles Quaritch... all of his "make my day" styled rhetoric was getting BORING...

I watched "Avatar" in IMAX 3D. It KICKED ASS. I can't imagine watching it on DVD, unless you have a screen the side of an entire wall.

560 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:23:53pm

re: #558 prairiefire

I can't take all the shouting.

haha the shouting is the best when it's Olympics, the rich tapestry of many languages being hollered at the sweepers :D

561 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:23:56pm

Is it college football time yet? Welcome to the big10, Nebraska!

562 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:24:27pm

re: #552 Floral Giraffe

is that the Australian Pink Floyd project?

563 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:24:53pm

re: #548 prairiefire

When they get older, you have to let go of control.

No, I don't.

I will let go of the control before they get older.

It's a gradual process.

He got into a world of hurt when he sassed the life guard. The life guard's word is THE WORD. You don't sass. You don't talk-back. You don't question. You do what you are told to do when you are told to do it.

564 freetoken  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:25:03pm

re: #555 Walter L. Newton

...and come on, conservatives really complained about this?...

Not just complained, but foaming-at-the-mouth ranted .

From the wonderful cornucopia of conservatism, CPAC:

Youtube Video
565 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:25:40pm

re: #547 NJDhockeyfan

The Stanley Cup is by far the greatest championship trophy in sports.


Truer words were never spoken. It is the greatest trophy of them all. And the hockey tradition of the end of series handshake is always such a great moment.

But I had to turn the coverage off after that. I can't watch any team other than mine hoisting the cup. So congrats to the Hawks and their fans. Enjoy the moment.

566 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:25:55pm

re: #552 Floral Giraffe

I think my favorite part of being an Aunt, is that I'm the one, the kids come to with a problem, they don't want to discuss with their parents. They know I will talk with them about anything. (They don't know, that 90% of the time I'm giving the same advice their parents would.) They know I am always available, and that I love them unconditionally, and I want the best for them.
Heck, I'm taking the oldest niece to a Pink Floyd concert this summer.
Gotta remember to buy earplugs!

*Get of of my lawn*!
Shakes cane at the kids!

*smooch*

567 webevintage  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:26:30pm

re: #557 WindUpBird

I find curling WAY more interesting than hockey. Like watching billiards, or going through the move list of a great chess match.

Curling is oddly fascinating.
I would lose a whole hour watching it during the Olympics.

(but I love hockey)

568 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:27:00pm

re: #551 MandyManners

It's "Yes". Telling a kid "You can't have that because I say so, end of story" does not work. Ever. It only further peaks their interest in the thing(s) you dislike, and creates an unnecessary rift of resentment for both parties.

When it comes to the kinds of things we have been discussing, like taste in music, it's conversation not domination that works best. Domination only leads to mommy issues.

When it comes to kids acting out, however, that is different.

569 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:27:38pm

re: #562 WindUpBird

is that the Australian Pink Floyd project?

I don't know. She called up & asked if I'd take her, I said yes. She gave me the dates & I bought the tickets. $12.50 each, a deal! Pink Floyd experience, is all it says.

570 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:28:32pm

re: #555 Walter L. Newton

Said it before, will say it again. If "300" came out during a dem admin., those same critics would slam it for being a pro-gay, pro-abortion film.

571 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:28:48pm

re: #547 NJDhockeyfan

re: #565 Mich-again

My only problem with the NHL is that here we are, in the second week of JUNE and it's just ending

((this, from someone who played hockey my entire youth, all the way into my college years, even spending half a winter while in high school playing Junior "B" in Canada)))

572 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:28:55pm

re: #567 webevintage

Curling is oddly fascinating.
I would lose a whole hour watching it during the Olympics.

(but I love hockey)

My problem with hockey is it just moves too fast for me on a TV screen. I like it live, but I can't really watch it on TV. Curling...I dunno, I just dig it. There's a curling group that practices at our local mall (which has the ice rink that the infamous Tonya Harding practiced at) and it's great to just hang out and watch them practice.

573 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:29:07pm

re: #568 Slumbering Behemoth

do you have kids?

574 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:29:25pm

re: #569 Floral Giraffe

I don't know. She called up & asked if I'd take her, I said yes. She gave me the dates & I bought the tickets. $12.50 each, a deal! Pink Floyd experience, is all it says.

I doubt it's *the* Pink Floyd with that ticket price. Should be good though. I've heard that there are Pink Floyd tribute bands that are better than the original.

Roger Water is going to do The Wall in DC. As much as I love that album, I really don't like stadium shows and I think he's kind of a prick.

575 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:29:46pm

re: #557 WindUpBird

I find curling WAY more interesting than hockey. Like watching billiards, or going through the move list of a great chess match.

Gotta agree. I had a Penguins fan try to teach me hockey appreciation in the Army but it didn't take. I just went back to watching football.

But Olympic class curling? That's the good stuff.

That said, it's good to see the Blackhawks win again.

William

576 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:29:48pm

re: #566 MandyManners

Yes, I'm the "safety valve" for the kids.
I love them like their parents do, but, well, I *ahem* have been a little, naughtier in my life, than the parents.
HEY! Some of us like being kinky.
Doesn't mean we're not good people!

577 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:29:57pm

re: #568 Slumbering Behemoth

It's "Yes". Telling a kid "You can't have that because I say so, end of story" does not work. Ever. It only further peaks their interest in the thing(s) you dislike, and creates an unnecessary rift of resentment for both parties.

When it comes to the kinds of things we have been discussing, like taste in music, it's conversation not domination that works best. Domination only leads to mommy issues.

When it comes to kids acting out, however, that is different.

I appreciate your sharing but, I don't agree with a few points.

578 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:29:58pm

re: #555 Walter L. Newton

Agreed Walter. It was a great film but I could have done without some of the campy details, the worst of which was the name of the valuable element being mined on the planet. Unobtanium? C'mon, that has to be one of the oldest jokes among science geeks. Still a great film.

579 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:30:23pm

re: #569 Floral Giraffe

I don't know. She called up & asked if I'd take her, I said yes. She gave me the dates & I bought the tickets. $12.50 each, a deal! Pink Floyd experience, is all it says.

Bless her heart that the new generation gets the Floyd. I'd say Floyd, the Melvins, and Sabbath are the three bands I owe most of my music library to, because without those bands, my favorite bands probably wouldn't exist. I was 13 when I got ahold of The Wall, pretty much changed everything.

581 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:31:52pm

re: #576 Floral Giraffe

Yes, I'm the "safety valve" for the kids.
I love them like their parents do, but, well, I *ahem* have been a little, naughtier in my life, than the parents.
HEY! Some of us like being kinky.
Doesn't mean we're not good people!

One thing: I love them like their parents do

No. You don't.

582 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:31:59pm

re: #574 Mad Al-Jaffee

Nope, it's NOT a tribute band.
*shudders*
I wouldn't go to one of those.
It's billed as Pink Floyd.
(I will go double check, though, thanks for the warning!)

583 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:32:21pm

re: #549 Mad Al-Jaffee

But can you drink out of it?

Of course. It's been used for much more than that.

The Cup gets paraded down many a Main Street, but is also often the guest of honor at backyard barbeques, weddings, and impromptu celebrations at local pubs. It has been used as a baptismal font and a flower pot. It has reportedly been both urinated and defecated into. It has shared a bed with at least one hockey player and his wife. It has been to strip clubs and has been used as a kibble bowl for one player's dog. A Kentucky Derby winner has eaten from it. It has traveled by dogsled and sometimes been temporarily misplaced by airlines. Some of its more unusual adventures have been:

* In 1905 the Cup spent the night on the Rideau Canal in Ottawa. The Ottawa team had won possession of the Cup, and one of its well-lit members accepted a challenge to drop-kick it into the canal. Fortunately for all concerned the canal was frozen solid, so the booted Cup bounced into the night rather than sinking into oblivion. The next morning several remorseful Ottawa players returned to the scene of the crime and retrieved the dented Cup.

* In 1907 it was stolen from a photographer's home (where it had been forgotten by the Montreal Wanderers) and held for ransom. When no one showed interest in its return, the thief left it at the photographer's place. The lady of the house used it as a flower pot until Wanderers brass remembered it had been returned there.

* In 1924 Montreal Canadiens players on their way to a victory party stashed the trophy in the trunk of their car. Part way to the festivities, the vehicle had a flat. The players removed the Cup to get at the spare, changed the tire and drove off ... leaving the Stanley Cup perched on a snowbank. Only when it came time to drink champagne from the Cup did they realize they didn't have it Cup with them. They drove back to where they'd changed the tire, found the Cup sitting there patiently waiting for them, and hastily reclaimed it.

584 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:32:46pm

re: #574 Mad Al-Jaffee

Roger Water is going to do The Wall in DC. As much as I love that album, I really don't like stadium shows and I think he's kind of a prick.

All in all, he's just a
'nother prick in the wall.

585 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:33:11pm

re: #559 Alouette

I watched "Avatar" in IMAX 3D. It KICKED ASS. I can't imagine watching it on DVD, unless you have a screen the side of an entire wall.

Well, I can't afford those kind of movie prices, so it looked fine with my girlfriends 32 inch cheap LCD TV and my cheap under 200 dollars Dolby surround system. And I dollar at Red Box.

586 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:33:14pm

re: #579 WindUpBird

I was 13 when I got ahold of The Wall, pretty much changed everything.

Me too! Except I think I was 14.

587 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:33:46pm

re: #382 Cato the Elder

I'm pretty sure we can do without the "real intel wrapped in phony intel" part.

The Saudis cannot afford another oil boycott, else they would have repeated the experiment by now.

OPEC is hardly monolithic anymore. No power to boycott. So my question remains: what could the Saudis possibly do to us, in case of a suspension of aid to the Palestinians, that they haven't already done? Send us more bogus students? Bush was the guy who agreed to up the ante on that one. Increase the anti-Israel rhetoric? How could that be accomplished?

A few guesses:

1.) Stop allowing our military having any sort of presence in Saudi Arabia and refuse to let us use their airspace, then pressure other Muslim countries (who depend on their aid) to do the same. I'm not sure how out military carries out operations in Afghanistan & Iraq, but I'm guessing it would create a serious logistical problem for our troops if enough countries joined in. Considering the geography of the area, I would think it might also hamper access to Iran & the Persian Gulf and points beyond.

2.) Ramp up the export of Wahhabi ideology.

3.) As for the anti-Israel rhetoric, it could easily become anti-U.S. rhetoric as well.

I'd also keep in mind the fact that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia. Any attack on Mecca—accidental or otherwise—would trigger a massive conflict reaching from the shores of Europe to the Far East. Even a perceived threat to Mecca could start a major upheaval. Sunnis, Shias, Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Pakistanis, etc. would all put their differences aside in defense of Mecca. I guarantee it.

Would the Saudis risk do any of those things over us cutting off aid to the Palestinians? I don't know. What I do know is it's not a joke and nor would it be solved by some sort of cowboy "let's nuke 'em all back to the Stone Age" bullshit. I'm not saying that you (or any here is recommending that), but I have heard people—including at least one politician, Tom Tancredo—speak of bombing Mecca.

588 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:33:50pm

I'm going to post this to see what folks think about it:

Why Obama doesn't dare become the 'angry black man'

Here's proof that President Obama has indeed ushered in a new era in race relations.

Who would have ever expected some white Americans to demand that an African-American man show more rage?

If you've followed the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster, you've heard the complaints that Obama isn't showing enough emotion.

But scholars say Obama's critics ignore a lesson from American history: Many white Americans don't like angry black men.

It's the lesson Obama absorbed from his upbringing, and from an impromptu remark he delivered last summer. Yet it's a lesson he may now have to jettison, they say, as public outrage spreads.

"Folks are waiting for a Samuel Jackson 'Snakes on the Plane' moment from this president as in: 'We gotta' get this $#@!!* oil back in the $#!!* rig!' But that's just not who Obama is,'' says Saladin Ambar, a political science professor at Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Click the link and read the whole thing. Replies are encouraged.

589 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:33:52pm
* In 1970 it was stolen from the Hockey Hall of Fame. The story attached to this incident is apocryphal but nonetheless has entered the canon of Cup lore. Who had the Cup was apparently no secret to at least one of the police officers working the case, and he successfully used this knowledge to negotiate for the trophy's safe return, getting it back a few weeks after it was purloined. However, he needed to deflect suspicion from the parties who handed over the Cup, which meant the return had to have happened on a day when all the participants had valid alibis. The Detective-Sergeant involved accomplished this by feeding the newspapers a tale about awakening one morning a few days after the heist to find the Cup sitting at the edge of his driveway.

* In 1993 some members of the Montreal Canadiens took it for a swim in Patrick Roy's pool. Thirty-six pounds of silver does not easily master the backstroke, as these Einsteins finally concluded. "The Stanley Cup," Habs captain Guy Carbonneau said, "does not float." Too bad they hadn't thought to ask Mario Lemieux — in 1991 hockey's grail had reposed at the bottom of his pool after a teammate took a dive with it in his arms.

* In 1996 the Cup was credited with the assist on a goal scored by the stork. The Rileys, a married couple who had been trying to have a baby for fourteen years, had given up hope of having that particular dream fulfilled because the doctors pegged Cheryl Riley's chances of conceiving somewhere between slim and none. Then Mike Ricci of the Colorado Avalanche brought the Cup to a party attended by Cheryl. On a whim she kissed the Cup. Shortly thereafter she delightedly discovered she was pregnant. By counting backwards she determined she must have conceived somewhere during the weekend she bussed the Cup, if not even that very night. The resulting child was born on 6 May 1997 and christened Stanley C. Gordon Jeff Riley. The "C" stands for "cup."

590 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:34:48pm

Compilation video of heroes returning.

[Link: wimp.com...]

591 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:35:18pm

re: #581 MandyManners

One thing: I love them like their parents do

No. You don't.

As near, as is possible. Yes, Mandy, I do.
If their parents were killed tomorrow, those kids would be raised in my home, as if they were my biological children.
There is nothing that I would not do to help those children be the best that they can be.

They don't have to be your biological child, to receive your parental love.
Ask, the Hoopster.

592 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:35:19pm

re: #568 Slumbering Behemoth

It's "Yes". Telling a kid "You can't have that because I say so, end of story" does not work. Ever. It only further peaks their interest in the thing(s) you dislike, and creates an unnecessary rift of resentment for both parties.

When it comes to the kinds of things we have been discussing, like taste in music, it's conversation not domination that works best. Domination only leads to mommy issues.

When it comes to kids acting out, however, that is different.

When it came to music, my parents let me listen to whatever I wanted, as long as I was still kicking ass in school. I had friends whose parents came down hard on anything they listened to and tried to forbid it, (usually 80's thrash for my friends, sometimes some vintage gangsta stuff like NWA) but they always got what they wanted, they just had friends dub it for them, unmarked cassettes in my childhood were easy to hide.

Tom Araya once remarked that they sold concerts out, out of proportion to their album sales, because kids don't want the evidence of a Slayer record around the house, but they can sneak out to the show.

593 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:35:26pm

re: #564 freetoken

Ugh. What a pathetic display of unnecessary, simplistic, partisan idiocy. It's a fuckin' work of fiction. As Walter pointed out, a story told a thousand times before.

594 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:36:19pm

re: #587 CuriousLurker

A few guesses:


I'd also keep in mind the fact that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia. Any attack on Mecca—accidental or otherwise—would trigger a massive conflict reaching from the shores of Europe to the Far East. Even a perceived threat to Mecca could start a major upheaval. Sunnis, Shias, Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Pakistanis, etc. would all put their differences aside in defense of Mecca. I guarantee it.

Would the Saudis risk do any of those things over us cutting off aid to the Palestinians? I don't know. What I do know is it's not a joke and nor would it be solved by some sort of cowboy "let's nuke 'em all back to the Stone Age" bullshit. I'm not saying that you (or any here is recommending that), but I have heard people—including at least one politician, Tom Tancredo—speak of bombing Mecca.

Requoted for emphasis.

Invading Saudi is something that just can't be done, and even talking about bombing Mecca is insanely stupid. Why don't we just put Jerusalem on the list too?

595 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:36:24pm

re: #573 Aceofwhat?

do you have kids?

I was a kid. Do I have to sire offspring in order to have an opinion?

596 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:36:29pm

re: #572 WindUpBird

My problem with hockey is it just moves too fast for me on a TV screen. I like it live, but I can't really watch it on TV.


Hockey is one sport best witnessed live where you can watch the whole play develop, not just the portion seen on the TV screen. Football would be the opposite of that. You need TV to see all the replays and isolation shots. However, if you have HD, hockey on TV is pretty good.

HD snob here. Once you watch a game on HD, it sucks watching a game on regular TV.

597 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:36:38pm

re: #587 CuriousLurker

A few guesses:

1.) Stop allowing our military having any sort of presence in Saudi Arabia and refuse to let us use their airspace, then pressure other Muslim countries (who depend on their aid) to do the same. I'm not sure how out military carries out operations in Afghanistan & Iraq, but I'm guessing it would create a serious logistical problem for our troops if enough countries joined in. Considering the geography of the area, I would think it might also hamper access to Iran & the Persian Gulf and points beyond.

2.) Ramp up the export of Wahhabi ideology.

3.) As for the anti-Israel rhetoric, it could easily become anti-U.S. rhetoric as well.

I'd also keep in mind the fact that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia. Any attack on Mecca—accidental or otherwise—would trigger a massive conflict reaching from the shores of Europe to the Far East. Even a perceived threat to Mecca could start a major upheaval. Sunnis, Shias, Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Pakistanis, etc. would all put their differences aside in defense of Mecca. I guarantee it.

Would the Saudis risk do any of those things over us cutting off aid to the Palestinians? I don't know. What I do know is it's not a joke and nor would it be solved by some sort of cowboy "let's nuke 'em all back to the Stone Age" bullshit. I'm not saying that you (or any here is recommending that), but I have heard people—including at least one politician, Tom Tancredo—speak of bombing Mecca.

That's Tancredo. He's not well liked around here.

598 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:36:40pm

re: #559 Alouette

I watched "Avatar" in IMAX 3D. It KICKED ASS. I can't imagine watching it on DVD, unless you have a screen the side of an entire wall.

Avatar was an incredible technical achievement. But as realism goes, the battle scenes are just silly. Never mind futuristic weapons; a WW2 infantry force would have done much, much better against the Avatar army than those space marines.

And the really-truly-real planet-mother god of the planet would have just sent a swarm of genetically engineered poison hornets or something and been done with it, rather than mess around. One way or another, such a fight would be so asymmetrical as to not even be a fight, just a job.

Not to mention the improbability of the existence of "unobtainium". Ah well.

599 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:37:02pm

re: #593 Slumbering Behemoth

Ugh. What a pathetic display of unnecessary, simplistic, partisan idiocy. It's a fuckin' work of fiction. As Walter pointed out, a story told a thousand times before.

And not only that, a story concept that we see used in SOOOOOO many settings. We all love the underdog, love them, love seeing them win... and in real life we also have no problem beating the ever loving shit out of them when needed... what goes around...

600 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:37:28pm

re: #590 MandyManners

Compilation video of heroes returning.

[Link: wimp.com...]

601 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:37:34pm

re: #592 WindUpBird

*wasn't allowed to watch MTV.


*totally snuck watching MTV when the parents weren't looking.

602 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:37:35pm

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

I want a patient, careful and thoughtful president. I don't want goofy faux-tough-guy theater from Obama. The media does, because it's the media, it makes them money.

603 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:38:08pm

Hezbollah stands by disgraced US reporter Helen Thomas

Hezbollah on Wednesday saluted veteran US reporter Helen Thomas's "courage" for her controversial comments against Israel, which sparked a furor and forced her to retire.


"Respected American journalist Helen Thomas's answer shows ... a courageous, bold, honest and free opinion which expresses what people across the globe believe: that Israel is a racist state of murderers and thugs," Hezbollah MP Hussein Moussawi said in a statement. (AFP)

604 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:38:43pm

re: #602 WindUpBird

Pff everybody likes some macho posturing. Makes us feel like we can be proud to be Americans again!

605 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:38:49pm

re: #591 Floral Giraffe

Which, does not in ANY WAY displace or degrade the love that you feel for them. It only adds to the love, the child knows.

606 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:39:05pm

For the 1st time since I was less than 1 year old, the Blackhawks Win The Stanle Cup!!!
That's The Way You Do It!!
I've seen the replay a couple times but I still do not know how the winner went in, but Kaner sure did!!

607 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:39:09pm

re: #602 WindUpBird

I want a patient, careful and thoughtful president. I don't want goofy faux-tough-guy theater from Obama. The media does, because it's the media, it makes them money.

I like faux-tough-guys... and I want them to beat me... with velvet whips and velvet tie-backs and feathers and silk blindfolds... oops... I'm sorry, wrong forum.

608 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:39:29pm

re: #607 Walter L. Newton

I like faux-tough-guys... and I want them to beat me... with velvet whips and velvet tie-backs and feathers and silk blindfolds... oops... I'm sorry, wrong forum.

No, no... totally right forum!

609 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:39:31pm

re: #591 Floral Giraffe

As near, as is possible. Yes, Mandy, I do.
If their parents were killed tomorrow, those kids would be raised in my home, as if they were my biological children.
There is nothing that I would not do to help those children be the best that they can be.

They don't have to be your biological child, to receive your parental love.
Ask, the Hoopster.

Oh, I didn't mean to insult you, Floral Giraffe.

I apologize.

610 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:39:47pm

Afghanistan: Taliban 'hang 7-year-old boy for spying'

Lashkargah, 9 June (AKI): Taliban fighters have hanged a seven-year-old boy, claiming he was passing information to foreign soldiers in the volatile southern province of Helmand, the governor's spokesman, Daud Ahmadi, told Pajhwok Afghan News.

The child's shocking murder took place in the Sarwan Qala area of Sangin district late on Tuesday. The boy, whose name was not immediately known, was abducted from the village of Heratyan, Ahmadi said.

611 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:40:27pm

re: #591 Floral Giraffe

Be careful there. Parents sometimes have conflicts with their kids, especially teenagers. And if there is an Aunt or Uncle who tries to step in and take the kids' side, look out. Thats alls I'm saying. We've had that once. An Aunt who tried to circumvent my wife and me and get in the middle and it didn't work out real well for her. Hell hath no fury like parents who think a relative is trying to pit the kids against them.

612 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:40:32pm

re: #607 Walter L. Newton

I like faux-tough-guys... and I want them to beat me... with velvet whips and velvet tie-backs and feathers and silk blindfolds... oops... I'm sorry, wrong forum.

Are you a lumberjack?

613 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:40:46pm

re: #610 NJDhockeyfan

Afghanistan: Taliban 'hang 7-year-old boy for spying'

Behold the wonders of jihad...

614 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:40:46pm

re: #596 Mich-again

Hockey is one sport best witnessed live where you can watch the whole play develop, not just the portion seen on the TV screen. Football would be the opposite of that. You need TV to see all the replays and isolation shots. However, if you have HD, hockey on TV is pretty good.

HD snob here. Once you watch a game on HD, it sucks watching a game on regular TV.

I have a big HDTV, I've seen hockey on the HD, and it does improve things, but I still don't really get into it. Maybe it's the sizeof the puck inr elation to the players. I can watch basketball, I get basketball on TV, it's easy for me to follow. But I'm not really the target market for anything on TV, I am either obsessed with a show, or I don't watch TV at all. Right now, 98% of the use of my HDTV is video games or the occasional movie.

615 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:40:47pm

re: #595 Slumbering Behemoth

I was a kid. Do I have to sire offspring in order to have an opinion?

Of course not.

OTOH, siring offspring (among a million other things) creates a much greater awareness of when not to opine on another parent's style.

616 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:41:05pm

re: #594 windsagio

Requoted for emphasis.

Invading Saudi is something that just can't be done, and even talking about bombing Mecca is insanely stupid. Why don't we just put Jerusalem on the list too?

No one here is talking about doing such a thing. The fate of Reynald des Chantillion is not a event I have forgotten.

617 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:41:06pm

re: #607 Walter L. Newton

I like faux-tough-guys... and I want them to beat me... with velvet whips and velvet tie-backs and feathers and silk blindfolds... oops... I'm sorry, wrong forum.

Yes it is! Shame on you!

((oh , and btw ,,, you owe me a handful of feathers and a silk blindfold!!)

618 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:41:16pm

re: #613 LudwigVanQuixote

Behold the wonders of jihad...

ROPMA!

619 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:41:37pm

re: #450 Charles

All true, but I don't think anyone really wants to test what would happen with another OPEC boycott.

Could make for some interesting stock market action though. :D

620 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:41:49pm

re: #444 MandyManners

Despite my ever-vigilant, tender-loving care, The Kid has become a fan of Rap. He has burned about 20 hours of songs from NBA/NFL PS2/3/PSP games and various NBA/NFL sites.

Yeah, my grandmother thought Elvis was TEH DEBIL.

It is possible to ween someone off of that devil Rap and onto a diet of high quality Hip-Hop. Examples include Blackalicious, Jurassic 5, the Roots, and De la Soul.

621 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:42:05pm

re: #616 Dark_Falcon

its worth re-emphasizing, because in the last year I"ve seen the rhetoric come right to the edge of that several times.

622 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:42:06pm

re: #603 NJDhockeyfan

Hezbollah stands by disgraced US reporter Helen Thomas

Well there you have it then.

623 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:42:09pm

re: #612 NJDhockeyfan

Are you a lumberjack?

If I were King of the Forest, Not queen, not duke, not prince.
My regal robes of the forest, would be satin, not cotton, not chintz.
I'd command each thing, be it fish or fowl.
With a woof and a woof and a royal growl - woof.
As I'd click my heel, all the trees would kneel.
And the mountains bow and the bulls kowtow.
And the sparrow would take wing - If I - If I - were King!
Each rabbit would show respect to me.
The chipmunks genuflect to me.
Though my tail would lash, I would show compash
For every underling!
If I - If I - were King!
Just King!

624 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:42:22pm

Random heh.

625 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:42:24pm

re: #577 MandyManners

I appreciate your sharing but, I don't agree with a few points.

And I don't really know how you raise your kid, I only know what you tell me. I am only offering my point of view based on the information you give me. How you do your thing is your business, not mine. I can only comment on what you choose to share.

I will say this. My mom was far too controlling in raising me, and that caused a rift between us that is only now just repairing. I know you love your kid, and I would hate to see you go through the same thing that my mom and I went through in our relationship.

626 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:43:07pm

re: #612 NJDhockeyfan

Are you a lumberjack?

I'm a lumberjack
and I'm OK

627 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:43:17pm

re: #610 NJDhockeyfan

Afghanistan: Taliban 'hang 7-year-old boy for spying'

Oh. Oh.

RELIGION OF PEACE???

It's a fucking lie. Islam is NOT a religion of peace.

628 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:43:17pm

re: #580 Alouette

Too fat to fly? Southwest apologizes to large passenger who was not allowed to board flight.

Well, there are people who are just so phenomenally big that if they sit in one seat, any adjacent seat is so much encroached on that no one could take it. And no one has any sort of inherent right to be carried for the price of one when they're using two seats. It's not discrimination to take reality into account. It's reality. And if you're 7+ feet tall, you probably need a first class seat because the leg room in economy seating just won't let you sit down and belt in. Reality.

629 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:44:15pm

re: #620 goddamnedfrank

It is possible to ween someone off of that devil Rap and onto a diet of high quality Hip-Hop. Examples include Blackalicious, Jurassic 5, the Roots, and De la Soul.

I'm a big fan of RZA's various projects, DJ Shadow, Del The Funky Homosapien...props for De La Soul :D

630 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:44:35pm

re: #620 goddamnedfrank

It is possible to ween someone off of that devil Rap and onto a diet of high quality Hip-Hop. Examples include Blackalicious, Jurassic 5, the Roots, and De la Soul.


You forgot Digable Planets...

631 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:44:48pm

re: #612 NJDhockeyfan

Are you a lumberjack?

I quoted "King of the Forest" to you above in answer to your question, because it reminded me of a little known fact. "King of the Forest" was originally sung by Bert Lahr (the Lion) in his vaudeville act in a segment called "The Lumberjack." It was written by Harold Arlen (songwriter for Oz), written by him for Lahr, and they pulled the song into the movie because the director wanted Lahr to do a star turn in the movie.

632 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:45:13pm

re: #576 Floral Giraffe

I always tease my teacher friends about the swinger/educator link.

633 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:45:20pm

re: #603 NJDhockeyfan

Hezbollah stands by disgraced US reporter Helen Thomas

Well, I do agree with Hezbollah on one point. Helen Thomas should be forced to wear a Burka in public. To hide that ugly dogass face. My apolgies to dogs.

634 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:45:46pm

re: #623 Walter L. Newton

re: #612 NJDhockeyfan

Youtube Video
635 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:45:47pm
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
636 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:46:01pm

re: #610 NJDhockeyfan

Afghanistan: Taliban 'hang 7-year-old boy for spying'

Any footage of that event should be broadcast across the world. Events like this cost Islamist terrorists a great deal of support. Even other Islamists like Erdogen will hate the Taliban for this. Killing a child like that is vile beyond words.

637 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:46:02pm

re: #627 MandyManners

Lol you said 'religion of peace'.

638 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:46:11pm

re: #631 Walter L. Newton

Harold Arlen is an American treasure.

639 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:47:00pm

re: #620 goddamnedfrank

it's like trying to get a kid off Godsmack and into Baroness and High on Fire :D

"I can't let you listen to this, son. It's just too stupid. Here, do yourself a favor and try out this copy of Houdini."

640 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:47:11pm

re: #579 WindUpBird

Bless her heart that the new generation gets the Floyd. I'd say Floyd, the Melvins, and Sabbath are the three bands I owe most of my music library to, because without those bands, my favorite bands probably wouldn't exist. I was 13 when I got ahold of The Wall, pretty much changed everything.

I bought The Wall on cassette when it first came out for $9.95. I guess the studio thought it wouldn't sell. :D

641 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:47:30pm

re: #587 CuriousLurker

A few guesses:

1.) Stop allowing our military having any sort of presence in Saudi Arabia and refuse to let us use their airspace, then pressure other Muslim countries (who depend on their aid) to do the same. I'm not sure how out military carries out operations in Afghanistan & Iraq, but I'm guessing it would create a serious logistical problem for our troops if enough countries joined in. Considering the geography of the area, I would think it might also hamper access to Iran & the Persian Gulf and points beyond.

2.) Ramp up the export of Wahhabi ideology.

3.) As for the anti-Israel rhetoric, it could easily become anti-U.S. rhetoric as well.

I'd also keep in mind the fact that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia. Any attack on Mecca—accidental or otherwise—would trigger a massive conflict reaching from the shores of Europe to the Far East. Even a perceived threat to Mecca could start a major upheaval. Sunnis, Shias, Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Pakistanis, etc. would all put their differences aside in defense of Mecca. I guarantee it.

Would the Saudis risk do any of those things over us cutting off aid to the Palestinians? I don't know. What I do know is it's not a joke and nor would it be solved by some sort of cowboy "let's nuke 'em all back to the Stone Age" bullshit. I'm not saying that you (or any here is recommending that), but I have heard people—including at least one politician, Tom Tancredo—speak of bombing Mecca.

Thank you for a serious answer.

1. Why do you think we invaded Iraq? It wasn't about oil, it wasn't about WMD, it was always (strategically speaking) about a forward base in the Middle East. That's what empires do: place their forces where they're needed.

2. How much more can they ramp it up? I suspect that the disputed mosque in lower Manhattan is a Wahhabi project. Why else would the imam have made the payment in cash money?

3. Where do you see anti-US rhetoric lacking in the Arab world? How could more of the same hurt US?

Finally, Tancredo is an asshole. The only button I see his finger on is the one on his trousers. Have you seen any credible threats to Mecca lately?

Standing up to the Saudis might be worth the pudding proof.

642 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:47:43pm

re: #624 windsagio

I can't find the actual CraigsList link, but here is the text. Classic.


Are you frustrated and sick of the state of things? Economy got you down? Pissed about the war in Iraq? Do you have a lot of pent up aggression and need a healthy outlet to realease it through?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then today is your lucky day!

For only $100 I will let you punch me in the face.

Here are the guidelines:

-Money up front, CASH ONLY
-No crow hopping. Planted foot punches only
-1 punch per customer per day
-Face only. No rabbit punches to the back of the dome or anything below the belt
-All punches are final. If you swing and miss thats your punch!
-I will be wearing a mouth guard. In the event of knocked out teeth, I keep the teeth
-I have the right to refuse any potential punchers for any reason what so ever

My Money Back Guarantee:

If I move or hit you back you will automatically be refunded your money.

Please, serious inquiries only

643 Mich-again  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:48:11pm

re: #636 Dark_Falcon

Even other Islamists like Erdogen will hate the Taliban for this.

I disagree. Erdogen won't say a thing about it. Unless he can concoct some way to blame it all on the Jews.

644 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:48:30pm

re: #632 prairiefire

I always tease my teacher friends about the swinger/educator link.

Wait, what did I miss?

645 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:48:41pm

re: #639 WindUpBird

it's like trying to get a kid off Godsmack and into Baroness and High on Fire :D

"I can't let you listen to this, son. It's just too stupid. Here, do yourself a favor and try out this copy of Houdini."

Godsmack. Ugh. That's Nickelback-quality suck right there...good call...

646 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:48:44pm

re: #638 prairiefire

Harold Arlen is an American treasure.

Yes he was... I put together a review of his music back in the 1990's for a summer music series in Clement Park (Littleton Colorado, the park right against Columbine High School) called "Over the Rainbow." He is never mentioned in the same breath as Cole Porter and the like, but he should, he wrote a boatload of popular songs for every medium and most Lizards have heard many of them and probably don't even know he was the author.

647 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:48:52pm

re: #609 MandyManners

No need to apologize.
You love your kid.
That's the important part.
Too many kids, grow up without love!

*smooch*

648 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:49:06pm

re: #642 Slumbering Behemoth

It both thrills me and depresses me that after the apocalypse, the only remains of our society that the aliens will find is the library of old Craigslist ads.

649 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:49:28pm

re: #627 MandyManners

Oh. Oh.

RELIGION OF PEACE???

It's a fucking lie. Islam is NOT a religion of peace.

Ya know, judging all of Islam by what the Taliban does in Afghanistan seems a little unfair.

650 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:49:50pm

re: #641 Cato the Elder

1. Why do you think we invaded Iraq? It wasn't about oil, it wasn't about WMD, it was always (strategically speaking) about a forward base in the Middle East. That's what empires do: place their forces where they're needed.

Hold on there tiger.

We already had a forward base in the region. Saudi Arabia. From the first Gulf war. And Kuwait. It's why Bin Laden got so pissed off.

651 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:50:22pm

re: #604 windsagio

Pff everybody likes some macho posturing. Makes us feel like we can be proud to be Americans again!

You have some pretty odd standards when it comes to taking pride in your nationality.

652 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:50:44pm

re: #650 Racer X

As prejudicial as it is, I'm sill all about the 'making up for where daddy failed' theory ;)

653 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:50:49pm

re: #631 Walter L. Newton

I quoted "King of the Forest" to you above in answer to your question, because it reminded me of a little known fact. "King of the Forest" was originally sung by Bert Lahr (the Lion) in his vaudeville act in a segment called "The Lumberjack." It was written by Harold Arlen (songwriter for Oz), written by him for Lahr, and they pulled the song into the movie because the director wanted Lahr to do a star turn in the movie.

Interesting. I never knew that. I did here that the song was cut down in post-production editing because the movie was though too long.

654 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:50:52pm

So now that curling season is over, I guess all of the sports fans will turn their attention to that big kickball event that's starting soon in Africa.

655 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:51:16pm

re: #651 Slumbering Behemoth

You have some pretty odd standards, in general.

FixT!

656 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:51:39pm
657 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:52:09pm

re: #652 windsagio

As prejudicial as it is, I'm sill all about the 'making up for where daddy failed' theory ;)

And I'm totally cool with that.

658 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:52:19pm

re: #645 Aceofwhat?

Godsmack. Ugh. That's Nickelback-quality suck right there...good call...

Friends don't let friends listen to Creed :D

The problem with post-grunge is you had a couple really good bands (Live, Foo Fighters), a few decent bands, and then the gold rush began and the rest is all just a wasteland of producers pumping out American Cheese.

659 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:52:44pm

re: #643 Mich-again

I disagree. Erdogen won't say a thing about it. Unless he can concoct some way to blame it all on the Jews.

He won't say anything, but he's unlikely to like it. And many Turks would be appalled.

660 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:52:44pm

re: #656 MandyManners

You totally pegged me.

I LoooOOOoooOOOooove me some Jihad!!!

661 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:52:55pm

re: #656 MandyManners

Fuck you, Windsagio and your pro-Jihad attitude.

?!?

662 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:53:27pm

Saddam needed a good killin'.
Jr. got him.

*high five*

663 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:53:51pm

re: #639 WindUpBird

Excellent album, that one.

664 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:03pm

re: #656 MandyManners

He is not pro-Jihad, Mandy. There's no one here who's pro-Jihad. Frankly, that's something Rodan would say.

665 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:07pm

re: #650 Racer X

Hold on there tiger.

We already had a forward base in the region. Saudi Arabia. From the first Gulf war. And Kuwait. It's why Bin Laden got so pissed off.

Yeah, but we have an even bigger forward base now.

666 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:11pm

re: #653 Dark_Falcon

Interesting. I never knew that. I did here that the song was cut down in post-production editing because the movie was though too long.

According to John Lahr's book on his father "Notes on a Cowardly Lion." I've looked up Arlen song lists, and they claim that song first debuted in "Oz" but John Lahr said his father was singing it in his stage comedy act before that movie.

667 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:28pm

re: #658 WindUpBird

Most of the good 'post-grunge' bands Either just happened to get stuffed into that category (ie Bush), or couldn't possibly exist before for various reasons (ie foo fighters).

668 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:30pm
669 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:35pm

Well, to bed... one more day off... going to cut and polish stones tomorrow...

670 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:42pm

re: #630 Aceofwhat?

You forgot Digable Planets...

Hey, I love Digable Planets, but they're way too openly marxist for Mandy. I also couldn't possibly post this video in earnest as something her kid should be watching:

Youtube Video

"Won't rest until they free our brother Mumia-Abu"

That one really didn't work out for them, did it?

671 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:47pm

re: #658 WindUpBird

Friends don't let friends listen to Creed :D

The problem with post-grunge is you had a couple really good bands (Live, Foo Fighters), a few decent bands, and then the gold rush began and the rest is all just a wasteland of producers pumping out American Cheese.

The record company is gonna pay us lots of money and everything is gonna be all right

Youtube Video
672 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:54:57pm

re: #644 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Wait, what did I miss?

You missed a spanking, that's all.

673 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:00pm

It's like, I don't even judge Christianity by the Southern Baptist Convention, and that's mainstream.

674 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:08pm

re: #589 NJDhockeyfan

All players and management on Stanley Cup winning teams are entitled to have the cup for a day. There is a full time custodian who travels with the cup. When he flies it is in a case in the set beside him.
Four years ago my buddy had his day with the cup and when it was taken out of the case and handed to him, he dropped it. Silver being soft, the drop put a big dent in the rim of the cup. The custodian told me that this is not an infrequent occurrence. If you look at the original Cup ( there are 2 Stanley Cups), despite the repairs, it shows it's age.

675 freetoken  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:09pm

re: #650 Racer X

And don't forget Bahrain, which serves as an important Naval support.

676 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:12pm

re: #668 MandyManners

Umm,


Ummm....?

Yowza.

677 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:37pm

re: #665 prairiefire

Yeah, but we have an even bigger forward base now.

You greedy Americans. Always wanting bigger stuff.

678 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:42pm

re: #669 Walter L. Newton

Well, to bed... one more day off... going to cut and polish stones tomorrow...

Have good day off!

679 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:45pm

re: #663 Slumbering Behemoth

Excellent album, that one.

Fuck yeah :D

Northwest music would not be what it is without the Melvins.

680 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:50pm

re: #673 WindUpBird

Hey now, they did finally apologize for the fact that their sect was founded to support slavery ;)

(Which, all joking aside, GOOD FOR THEM :D)

681 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:56pm

re: #670 goddamnedfrank

That one really didn't work out for them, did it?

ouch. forgot about that. idiots.

682 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:55:59pm

re: #649 WindUpBird

Ya know, judging all of Islam by what the Taliban does in Afghanistan seems a little unfair.

There are a hell of a lot more negative players than just the one you mention, but I suppose you have a point.

683 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:56:14pm

re: #668 MandyManners

Ease on up there Mandy.

684 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:56:14pm

Tomorrow is the 100th birthday of Howlin' Wolf. That's all I have left to post about music tonight. And it's abbout time for me to sign off.

685 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:56:19pm

night, lizards.

686 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:56:26pm

re: #668 MandyManners

Oh, to answer your question, they're in married bliss now, they don't need LGF to fill their lives ;)

687 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:56:47pm

re: #672 Floral Giraffe

You missed a spanking, that's all.

DAMN

688 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:56:48pm

re: #668 MandyManners

what the hell?

689 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:56:50pm

re: #674 Reginald Perrin

Cool story!
*smooch*

690 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:56:54pm

I think that my point is rather clear.

691 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:57:13pm

re: #686 windsagio

Oh, to answer your question, they're in married bliss now, they don't need LGF to fill their lives ;)

Give it a few months.

692 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:57:52pm

re: #691 Racer X

Give it a few months.

Lol cynic.

Well they do say 'the honeymoon's over' for a reason ;)

693 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:57:57pm

re: #623 Walter L. Newton

re: #612 NJDhockeyfan

Youtube Video
re: #669 Walter L. Newton

Well, to bed... one more day off... going to cut and polish stones tomorrow...

is that what you kids are calling it nowadays!?!?

(btw ,, you've got mail)

694 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:58:02pm

re: #668 MandyManners

Where are your Prog buddies, IceWeasle and her hubby, Jimmah?

Huh?

My prog buddies are right here

Youtube Video
695 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:58:23pm

re: #576 Floral Giraffe


HEY! Some of us like being kinky.
Doesn't mean we're not good people!


Doesn't mean we are...lol
Speak for yourself, I'm kinky and have never claimed to be good people.
*smack*

696 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:58:23pm

re: #691 Racer X

Give it a few months.

oh that's real nice

697 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:58:26pm

re: #694 WindUpBird

I so knew what that was!

698 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:58:54pm

re: #690 MandyManners

I think that my point is rather clear.

i think you should stop

699 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:59:04pm

Somalia: Al Shabaab issues fatwa about TV


MOGADISHU, June 9, 2010 (Mareeg)—al Shabaab militants have issued Wednesday “Islamic Fatwa” about Universal TV and its staff.

Al Shabaab accused the London-based Somali language broadcaster of showing clips of cartoons allegedly offending Prophet Muhammed.

The correspondent of the TV in south Africa Abdullahi Ibrahim Dasar used as a background a cartoon showed by the Mail & Guardian Newspaper in south Africa on 29 May, 2010 in his report about an anger of the Muslims in South Africa.

“No one can forgive the reporter, the cameraman, the management of the TV and everyone else that participated showing the abusive cartoon to the Prophet,” said the Fatwa.

Al Shabaab called the killing of the reporter and also the managers of Universal TV.

700 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:59:07pm

re: #688 Aceofwhat?

what the hell?

Apparently, while we weren't looking, there was a sudden reversion to primary school.

701 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:59:40pm

re: #686 windsagio

Oh, to answer your question, they're in married bliss now, they don't need LGF to fill their lives ;)

hehe,, I told them just prior to the nuptials that I hoped they would get married soon so that they would stop agreeing with each other 100% of the time!!

702 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:59:51pm

re: #695 Reginald Perrin

Doesn't mean we are...lol
Speak for yourself, I'm kinky and have never claimed to be good people.
*smack*

OK, well, at least you're FUN people.
Does that work for you?
Sir.

703 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:00:25pm

re: #701 sattv4u2

See, still mean but at least funny >

704 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:01:01pm

re: #602 WindUpBird

I want a patient, careful and thoughtful president. I don't want goofy faux-tough-guy theater from Obama. The media does, because it's the media, it makes them money.

And Barack "I want to know whose ass to kick" Obama gives them all they want because he is cynical and manipulative.

706 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:01:26pm

Shit, can we just go back to talking about Walter seeing Avatar for the first time. He was in, like, plays and stuff. I bet he caught some subtle nuances in the film that weren't readily apparent in it's rip-off of a million other stories. Like, ones the un-hinged far right couldn't even perceive.

707 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:01:35pm

Dinner:

Trader Joes frozen Mahi Mahi patties grilled; burger style with spinach leaf, tomato and a dab of tartar sauce. Very tasty! Not dry at all. Good flavor. Highly recommend them.

On my second margarita.

708 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:02:19pm

re: #656 MandyManners

Fuck you, Windsagio and your pro-Jihad attitude.

God Mandy, you just can't help yourself. You are the origin of more "pro-Jihad", "anti-Israel" and similar insults than every other LGF commenter put together.

709 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:02:25pm

re: #696 WindUpBird

oh that's real nice

What?

What?

710 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:03:19pm

re: #650 Racer X

Hold on there tiger.

We already had a forward base in the region. Saudi Arabia. From the first Gulf war. And Kuwait. It's why Bin Laden got so pissed off.

Bullshit.

As an old Roman, I know better.

We are invited guests in Saudi Arabia. They can and could and might kick our asses out of there tomorrow.

Ditto Kuwait.

We conquered Iraq, and despite the "drawdown", we will not ever leave there nor give up our rights as conqueror before it suits us. This Is What Empires Do. And as against the grain as it may be to some who think America is somehow exception to the rule, We Are An Empire.

Germany made peace with us and is officially an independent state. Do you really believe, if they asked us politely, that we would withdraw our bases from Germany?

Iraq: ours.

To counter Iran, to be used as an unsinkable aircraft carrier, to guard against the day when the Saudis ask us to go home, to secure the Persian Gulf, to spread our version of the truth, to buttress our Imperial might - from now until the sun sets on our sassy asses.

It's also known as Realpolitik 101.

711 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:04:21pm

re: #704 Spare O'Lake

And Barack "I want to know whose ass to kick" Obama gives them all they want because he is cynical and manipulative.

yeah because accepted slang in response to the worst environmental disaster in American history = OH NOES THE SCHEMEZING FCBBHO


You will just contort yourself in every way possible if it means a cheap dig at Obama, which you know, if that's what makes you happy, go for it

712 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:04:24pm

re: #673 WindUpBird

It's like, I don't even judge Christianity by the Southern Baptist Convention, and that's mainstream.

I judge all religions by one simple principle...

"You want my what? My money and my unquestioning, uncritical devotion? Well then you better put out an album that doesn't suck".

713 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:05:01pm

re: #709 Racer X

What?

What?

just seems sorta weird to harsh on newlyweds, that's how it read to me!

714 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:05:08pm

re: #706 Slumbering Behemoth

Dammit, I can't find it now, I used to have a link saved to an essay of the 10-15 classic Scifi books that you could argue "Avatar" ripped off >>

715 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:05:22pm

play nicer, everyone. good night.

716 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:05:24pm

re: #712 Slumbering Behemoth

I judge all religions by one simple principle...

"You want my what? My money and my unquestioning, uncritical devotion? Well then you better put out an album that doesn't suck".

ahahahaha :D

My spirit animal is Brent Hinds

717 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:05:38pm

re: #699 NJDhockeyfan

Somalia: Al Shabaab issues fatwa about TV

That's some fine Religion of Peace you got there.

718 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:05:41pm

re: #708 Nimed

God Mandy, you just can't help yourself. You are the origin of more "pro-Jihad", "anti-Israel" and similar insults than every other LGF commenter put together.

That's a lie.

719 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:06:01pm

re: #710 Cato the Elder
Cato:
A 1,000 upding post.

I bet you read The Prince

Good night all

720 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:06:25pm

re: #710 Cato the Elder

Bullshit.

As an old Roman, I know better.

We are invited guests in Saudi Arabia. They can and could and might kick our asses out of there tomorrow.

Ditto Kuwait.

We conquered Iraq, and despite the "drawdown", we will not ever leave there nor give up our rights as conqueror before it suits us. This Is What Empires Do. And as against the grain as it may be to some who think America is somehow exception to the rule, We Are An Empire.

Germany made peace with us and is officially an independent state. Do you really believe, if they asked us politely, that we would withdraw our bases from Germany?

Iraq: ours.

To counter Iran, to be used as an unsinkable aircraft carrier, to guard against the day when the Saudis ask us to go home, to secure the Persian Gulf, to spread our version of the truth, to buttress our Imperial might - from now until the sun sets on our sassy asses.

It's also known as Realpolitik 101.

Bullshit.

You really think the next 3 presidents (all democrats at the rate the GOP is going) are going to stay and continue to occupy Iraq?

I don't.

And Germany has begged us to stay.

721 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:06:29pm

Bravo! Once again Charles Johnson proves to be one of the best investigative journalists on the web.

722 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:06:33pm

re: #710 Cato the Elder

Bullshit.

As an old Roman, I know better.

We are invited guests in Saudi Arabia. They can and could and might kick our asses out of there tomorrow.
blockquote>

We're invited guests of the royalty of Saudi Arabia. Some Saudis feel differently than the power structure.

723 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:07:07pm

re: #668 MandyManners

Where are your Prog buddies, IceWeasle and her hubby, Jimmah?

Huh?

Totally unnecessary. Iceweael [sic] was here this morning, whilst you were sleeping off your porn hangover.

724 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:07:18pm

re: #713 WindUpBird

just seems sorta weird to harsh on newlyweds, that's how it read to me!

No, not harsh at all. Sorry if it came off that way.

I meant give it a few months before they are back on LGF regular.

725 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:07:20pm

re: #714 windsagio

Dammit, I can't find it now, I used to have a link saved to an essay of the 10-15 classic Scifi books that you could argue "Avatar" ripped off >>

I saw the one based on Disney movies

726 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:07:37pm

re: #656 MandyManners

Mands

Time to walk away for the night

727 Reginald Perrin  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:07:55pm

re: #689 Floral Giraffe

Cool story!
*smooch*

I will tell you an even better story about this buddy.
Check your mail.

728 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:07:58pm

re: #722 WindUpBird

Fix your tags, nub.

729 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:08:00pm

re: #724 Racer X

No, not harsh at all. Sorry if it came off that way.

I meant give it a few months before they are back on LGF regular.

ahh ok fair enough.

730 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:08:14pm

re: #728 windsagio

Fix your tags, nub.

BSH%P%DGIFUGHFUIgtfui :-(

731 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:08:17pm

re: #710 Cato the Elder

Bullshit.

As an old Roman, I know better.

We are invited guests in Saudi Arabia. They can and could and might kick our asses out of there tomorrow.

Ditto Kuwait.

We conquered Iraq, and despite the "drawdown", we will not ever leave there nor give up our rights as conqueror before it suits us. This Is What Empires Do. And as against the grain as it may be to some who think America is somehow exception to the rule, We Are An Empire.

Germany made peace with us and is officially an independent state. Do you really believe, if they asked us politely, that we would withdraw our bases from Germany?

Iraq: ours.

To counter Iran, to be used as an unsinkable aircraft carrier, to guard against the day when the Saudis ask us to go home, to secure the Persian Gulf, to spread our version of the truth, to buttress our Imperial might - from now until the sun sets on our sassy asses.

It's also known as Realpolitik 101.

If your assessment is correct then all I can say is that it was a brilliant move by President Bush.

However, once our presence comes to and end there are no plans for permanent US military bases in Iraq.

732 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:08:29pm

re: #711 WindUpBird

yeah because accepted slang in response to the worst environmental disaster in American history = OH NOES THE SCHEMEZING FCBBHO


You will just contort yourself in every way possible if it means a cheap dig at Obama, which you know, if that's what makes you happy, go for it

Actually it was the obvious flip side of your comment which you are too dishonest to acknowledge.

733 bratwurst  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:08:48pm

re: #711 WindUpBird

yeah because accepted slang in response to the worst environmental disaster in American history = OH NOES THE SCHEMEZING FCBBHO

Beck started his TV show today by expressing his OUTRAGE over Obama's "foul language". Anyone have the stomach to research how "outraged" he was over Dick Cheney's f-bomb? I don't.

734 researchok  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:08:56pm

re: #710 Cato the Elder

Bullshit.

As an old Roman, I know better.

We are invited guests in Saudi Arabia. They can and could and might kick our asses out of there tomorrow.

Ditto Kuwait.

We conquered Iraq, and despite the "drawdown", we will not ever leave there nor give up our rights as conqueror before it suits us. This Is What Empires Do. And as against the grain as it may be to some who think America is somehow exception to the rule, We Are An Empire.

Germany made peace with us and is officially an independent state. Do you really believe, if they asked us politely, that we would withdraw our bases from Germany?

Iraq: ours.

To counter Iran, to be used as an unsinkable aircraft carrier, to guard against the day when the Saudis ask us to go home, to secure the Persian Gulf, to spread our version of the truth, to buttress our Imperial might - from now until the sun sets on our sassy asses.

It's also known as Realpolitik 101.

Succinct.

735 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:09:34pm

re: #720 Racer X

Bullshit.

You really think the next 3 presidents (all democrats at the rate the GOP is going) are going to stay and continue to occupy Iraq?

I don't.

And Germany has begged us to stay.

That's why they're still flying those old F-4Gs.

736 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:09:36pm

re: #716 WindUpBird

ahahahaha :D

My spirit animal is Brent Hinds

What is that, some kind of creepy Cheysuli crap?

737 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:11:08pm

re: #725 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

On the subject of looking for that, and on the subject of 'progs'

Did Prog Rock's greatest Artist inspire Avatar?


(Dunno if Yes is the greatest artist in prog tho', any experts wanna chime in?)

738 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:12:50pm

So, we're watching some TV and some of the characters are being used as slaves, and my 6 year old remarks, "Thats just not fair, being forced to work like that just because someone else is bigger and they're just lazy" and I say Yeah. Then she continues "...like certain people in this room whose name starts with a D...Daddy."

Wiseass. I have no clue where she gets it.

739 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:12:51pm

re: #732 Spare O'Lake

Actually it was the obvious flip side of your comment which you are too dishonest to acknowledge.

If you think one piece of slang from Obama = tough guy theater in the wake of all the puffed up kick-ass rhetoric we've seen from President George W "Old Poster Out West" Bush... all I can say is I'm not sure I want you scoring at my darts league!

740 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:12:53pm

re: #710 Cato the Elder

Bullshit.

As an old Roman, I know better.

We are invited guests in Saudi Arabia. They can and could and might kick our asses out of there tomorrow.

Ditto Kuwait.

We conquered Iraq, and despite the "drawdown", we will not ever leave there nor give up our rights as conqueror before it suits us. This Is What Empires Do. And as against the grain as it may be to some who think America is somehow exception to the rule, We Are An Empire.

Germany made peace with us and is officially an independent state. Do you really believe, if they asked us politely, that we would withdraw our bases from Germany?

Iraq: ours.

To counter Iran, to be used as an unsinkable aircraft carrier, to guard against the day when the Saudis ask us to go home, to secure the Persian Gulf, to spread our version of the truth, to buttress our Imperial might - from now until the sun sets on our sassy asses.

It's also known as Realpolitik 101.

Noam Chomsky alert!

I thought South America was supposed to be our traditional playground...

741 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:13:06pm

re: #737 windsagio

Oh wait they mean Dean is the greatest artist, not Yes.

Makes somewhat more sense >>

742 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:13:13pm

re: #736 Slumbering Behemoth

What is that, some kind of creepy Cheysuli crap?

upding for Jennifer Roberson I had all those books hahaha

743 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:13:34pm
744 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:14:11pm

re: #742 WindUpBird

That's another 'you can't actually go back to your childhood' series, btw.

745 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:14:36pm

re: #743 NJDhockeyfan

Oklahoma set to ban Sharia, Muslims not Happy

Christ, with good reason!

WTF is wrong with people?

746 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:14:47pm

re: #727 Reginald Perrin

Done, Sir.

747 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:14:54pm

re: #731 Gus 802

If your assessment is correct then all I can say is that it was a brilliant move by President Bush.

However, once our presence comes to and end there are no plans for permanent US military bases in Iraq.

We're in the midst of a "drawdown" of forces in Iraq right now.

Where in the world do you take from that that "drawdown" means "finish"?

Once an Empire has a foothold, it won't ever leave until the sun sets on its ass. And then we'll just sell it to China.

We will never "quit" Iraq. It's too good a setup.

748 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:15:11pm

re: #744 windsagio

That's another 'you can't actually go back to your childhood' series, btw.

Oh it's true. :(

749 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:15:50pm

re: #745 windsagio

I regret quoting now. That blog post is the most loathesome thing I've read all week, and you should see my bookmarks.

Disgusting, hateful, and un-american.

750 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:16:00pm

re: #641 Cato the Elder

Thank you for a serious answer.

And thank you for the serious question.

2. How much more can they ramp it up? I suspect that the disputed mosque in lower Manhattan is a Wahhabi project. Why else would the imam have made the payment in cash money?

I think you're wrong. Feisal Abdul Rauf was the imam of a Sufi mosque, Masjid al-Farah, which is another mosque not too far from Ground Zero (in TriBeCa). Philosophically & practically speaking, Sufis are about as far as you can get from the Wahhabis.

There are Sufis in every corner of the world, including Saudi Arabia (though they have to keep a low profile there), so even if there was money coming from there, it wouldn't necessarily be Wahhabi money.

3. Where do you see anti-US rhetoric lacking in the Arab world? How could more of the same hurt US?

I mean state sponsored & approved rhetoric from nations that are currently our "friends". If pressured economically & socially to crank it up or risk losing it all, I could see them becoming "born again" Muslims.

Finally, Tancredo is an asshole. The only button I see his finger on is the one on his trousers.

Yeah, he's an asshole of the first order. *gag*

Have you seen any credible threats to Mecca lately?

No, and I doubt I will. At least I hope not. I guess my main point, which I didn't really state clearly, was that if tempers started flaring and rhetoric flying on all sides, things could spiral out of control and horrible mistakes could be made. All it would take is one to trigger a world war.

Standing up to the Saudis might be worth the pudding proof.

Maybe. It's hard to know for sure without being privy to whatever classified info the POTUS has.

751 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:16:12pm

re: #745 windsagio

Christ, with good reason!

WTF is wrong with people?

Banning sharia law in the USA seems a little superfluous though, doesn't it? Like specifically banning beheading by katana. There's already laws against that! :D

752 bratwurst  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:16:40pm

re: #737 windsagio

On the subject of looking for that, and on the subject of 'progs'

Did Prog Rock's greatest Artist inspire Avatar?

(Dunno if Yes is the greatest artist in prog tho', any experts wanna chime in?)

I think they are talking about Roger Dean being the greatest artist in prog rock, having designed a bunch of Yes album art (something he did for other acts in the genre as well).

753 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:16:42pm

re: #747 Cato the Elder

We're in the midst of a "drawdown" of forces in Iraq right now.

Where in the world do you take from that that "drawdown" means "finish"?

Once an Empire has a foothold, it won't ever leave until the sun sets on its ass. And then we'll just sell it to China.

We will never "quit" Iraq. It's too good a setup.

I didn't say it would happen over night. It may be another 10 to 20 years. In the end it will be up to the Iraqis. Iraq was "ours" for a long time before Saddam Hussein told the CIA to take a hike.

754 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:17:03pm

re: #738 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

So, we're watching some TV and some of the characters are being used as slaves, and my 6 year old remarks, "Thats just not fair, being forced to work like that just because someone else is bigger and they're just lazy" and I say Yeah. Then she continues "...like certain people in this room whose name starts with a D...Daddy."

Wiseass. I have no clue where she gets it.

Liar, liar, pants on fire!
CLEARLY this is your child.
And a fun one!

755 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:17:32pm

re: #739 WindUpBird

I've never heard GWB, or any other POTUS, flat out talk about kicking someone's ass, so I think your analogy fails.

On the other hand, I actually liked hearing that phrase from a POTUS for the first time. Of course it was carefully calculated for consumption, but I liked it none the less.

756 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:17:44pm

re: #751 WindUpBird

Banning sharia law in the USA seems a little superfluous though, doesn't it? Like specifically banning beheading by katana. There's already laws against that! :D

People are scared about the turn for the worse regarding Sharia law in England and Canada.

However, they don't have our Constitution, which would override Sharia law here anyway.

757 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:18:03pm

re: #752 bratwurst

Yeah yeah, got that too late.

758 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:18:27pm

re: #752 bratwurst

I think they are talking about Roger Dean being the greatest artist in prog rock, having designed a bunch of Yes album art (something he did for other acts in the genre as well).

There's two best artists in prog rock. There's the Painter, which is Roger Dean, and there's The Photographer, which is Storm Thorgensen. :D

(I've been a Roger Dean obsessive since I was like 11, I have all the books, I even have the damn trading cards)

759 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:18:36pm

re: #739 WindUpBird

If you think one piece of slang from Obama = tough guy theater in the wake of all the puffed up kick-ass rhetoric we've seen from President George W "Old Poster Out West" Bush... all I can say is I'm not sure I want you scoring at my darts league!

Jonathan Chait today on the subject:

Please Tell Me You're Not Calling Obama A Fake Cowboy Now

I've written about the strange habit of the former Bushies of projecting all their man's flaws onto the current president. But this is unusually blatant. Hoping to be graded on emotions rather than managerial competence? Pretending to be Clint Eastwood? This isn't merely something George W. Bush did. It captures the very essence of George W. Bush in so eerily accurate a way that, if you woke up a goat-herder in Inner Mongolia in the middle of the night and read this description to him, he would say, "You're talking about George W. Bush."

This is president who said of Osama bin Laden, "I want justice. And there's an old poster out west, that I recall, that said, 'Wanted, Dead or Alive,'" then horribly blundered by allowing bin Laden and al Qaeda to escape. Or the president who would respond to disasters like the Enron scandal by saying things like, "The best ethics course is to handcuff one of the bastards." Or the president who constantly pretended to be a cowboy.

760 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:18:46pm

re: #756 alexknyc

Those fears always struck me as more than a little trumped-up.

761 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:19:22pm

re: #758 WindUpBird

But do you have a Dean-designed Pod-house?!

762 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:19:54pm

re: #755 Slumbering Behemoth

I've never heard GWB, or any other POTUS, flat out talk about kicking someone's ass, so I think your analogy fails.

On the other hand, I actually liked hearing that phrase from a POTUS for the first time. Of course it was carefully calculated for consumption, but I liked it none the less.

I think he meant it colloquially though. I don't think anyone really expects Obama to take off his jacket and throw hands :D

And yeah, it was calculated, but it doesn't to me, rise to the level of Angry Theater. If it was all the time, if there's constant rhetoric like that, then I'd revise my appraisal.

763 freetoken  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:20:07pm

re: #743 NJDhockeyfan

From the link:

Personally I would like to take it one step further though. After the law is passed, I would arrest and deport, if possible any Muslim that calls for Sharia Law. All Sharia loving Muslims are to be looked upon as enemies of the state, just like Nazis were.

Deport? If they are a citizen?

Look, I'm all for trying to reduce the religious influence behind the politics/laws in this country, but wanting to deport somebody just because they desire to see their beliefs put into some formal arrangement is a bit ... xtreme.

764 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:20:11pm

re: #733 bratwurst

Beck started his TV show today by expressing his OUTRAGE over Obama's "foul language". Anyone have the stomach to research how "outraged" he was over Dick Cheney's f-bomb? I don't.

Does anyone here really question Glen Beck's lack of objectivity and balance? Give me a break - the guy is a crazy huckster and everyone knows it...even his biggest fans.

765 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:20:14pm

Interesting discussion, as always.

I just found out that "Wild At Heart" is available on Netflix Instant, and am now going out for late-night beer to accompany the watching thereof.

Lord, bless this mess!

766 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:20:20pm

re: #761 windsagio

But do you have a Dean-designed Pod-house?!

You just wait until my ponzi scheme matures

767 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:20:31pm

re: #758 WindUpBird

Good God, man!

768 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:21:15pm

re: #762 WindUpBird

It was more 'young punk' theatre, which I'm all good with.

Any evidence of generational change in politics is good right now. I'm so tired of arguing about Vietnam.

769 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:21:32pm

re: #767 windsagio

Good God, man!

it's fucking rad and you know it

770 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:21:40pm

re: #760 windsagio

Those fears always struck me as more than a little trumped-up.

I can see how it might worry a woman from an Islamic country who moved here to get away from that but I know I don't lose sleep at night worrying about the takeover of the US legal system by Sharia law.

Although, I am following the Buffalo beheading case-- the guy is trying to use a cultural defense.

771 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:21:42pm

re: #743 NJDhockeyfan

From the link:


An Islamic leader says it’s another example of a rising tide of anti-Islamic bigotry in America.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but there is no place in America for any religious law that contravenes the laws of America and the will of it's people.

772 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:22:30pm

re: #749 windsagio

I regret quoting now. That blog post is the most loathesome thing I've read all week, and you should see my bookmarks.

Disgusting, hateful, and un-american.

How so?

773 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:23:16pm

re: #771 Slumbering Behemoth

From the link:

Maybe yes, maybe no, but there is no place in America for any religious law that contravenes the laws of America and the will of it's people.

Problem is they'll never have any chance of becoming law anyways (Sharia that is). Its populist rhetoric based on fears of Islam at best.

774 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:23:58pm

re: #773 windsagio

Problem is they'll never have any chance of becoming law anyways (Sharia that is). Its populist rhetoric based on fears of Islam at best.

They said that in Britain too.

775 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:24:21pm

re: #772 Bagua

How so?

!!

This is a great step in our war with Islam. The reason is that, not only does it protect us from Islam, it will also expose the pro-Sharia Muslims. Personally I would like to take it one step further though. After the law is passed, I would arrest and deport, if possible any Muslim that calls for Sharia Law. All Sharia loving Muslims are to be looked upon as enemies of the state, just like Nazis were.


I mean WOW WHAT

776 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:24:29pm

re: #772 Bagua

The author saying that he likes the idea because it would 'expose pro-sharia muslims' so they could be deported, because they should be looked at as enemies of the state.

That's the part I remember well enough to paraphrase, I'm not going to poison my mind by going back.

777 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:25:06pm

re: #767 windsagio

Good God, man!

Frank Frazetta art is cool. :D

778 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:25:28pm

re: #774 Racer X

First of all, we're not Britain. Secondly, as I said above, I think the fears about Britain 'falling under Sharia law' are trumped up at best.

779 bratwurst  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:25:58pm

re: #764 Spare O'Lake

Does anyone here really question Glen Beck's lack of objectivity and balance? Give me a break - the guy is a crazy huckster and everyone knows it...even his biggest fans.

I don't imagine there is anyone here who would debate that, but I am sorry to have to report to you that he has PLENTY of true believers who do not consider him a huckster in any way, shape or form. I used to overhear several of them at my gym while I was residing in reddest red state America.

780 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:26:31pm

re: #775 WindUpBird

Whups, you stole my thunder by posting the passage I was thinking of.

Oh yeah, MUSLIMS ARE NAZIS TOO!

Forgot that.

781 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:26:36pm

White supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is all worked up again: Robert Stacy McCain (rsmccain) on Twitter

@SissyWillis A vicious dishonest scumbag, is what he is.

about 2 hours ago via web in reply to SissyWillis

@SissyWillis Charles Johnson was trying to DESTROY Pamela Geller. She survived, but horrible damage was done

about 2 hours ago via web in reply to SissyWillis

@SissyWillis What Charles Johnson did to Pamela Geller was just SO WRONG, and now he wants to pretend it never happened.

about 2 hours ago via web in reply to SissyWillis

@lr3031 @SissyWillis Charles Johnson is not to be trusted. He smeared good people (Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer) and NEVER apologized.

about 2 hours ago via web in reply to lr3031

@SissyWillis @DaTechGuyblog Be Ye Not Deceived!

about 2 hours ago via web in reply to SissyWillis

782 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:26:51pm

For the Hockey peeps here...
[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

783 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:26:52pm

re: #775 WindUpBird

I mean WOW WHAT

re: #776 windsagio

Thanks. While I find Sharia law abhorrent I wouldn't deport a citizen for advocating it.

784 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:27:07pm

List of designated terrorist organizations

Notice a pattern?

785 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:27:26pm

re: #739 WindUpBird

If you think one piece of slang from Obama = tough guy theater in the wake of all the puffed up kick-ass rhetoric we've seen from President George W "Old Poster Out West" Bush... all I can say is I'm not sure I want you scoring at my darts league!

Actually, if you were following the MSM you would have seen them clamouring for weeks for Obama to get mad and to get tough with BP. Then, lo and behold, Obama started coming out with these bullshit macho soundbites which have rung so hollow.

786 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:27:35pm

re: #781 Charles

You beast!

How dare you victimize poor Pam and Rob!

787 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:27:36pm

re: #778 windsagio

First of all, we're not Britain. Secondly, as I said above, I think the fears about Britain 'falling under Sharia law' are trumped up at best.

A quick Google search found that there have been Sharia courts operating in Britain for several years now.

788 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:27:48pm

re: #742 WindUpBird

I was afeared you wouldn't get the reference.

/Nerd-side points gained.

I never finished reading the series. Cheesy stuff, but it appealed to me at the time.

789 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:28:01pm

re: #777 Boogberg

Frank Frazetta art is cool. :D

I love me some Frazetta! And his disciple, Jeffrey Jones as well.

I can cut loose on album cover artists forever. For a while, it was all I wanted to do with my work.

for example, Paul Romano is pretty much inhumanly awesome

John Baizley, also righteous. In the band Baroness and also doing the band's art. DAMN.

790 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:28:15pm

re: #787 alexknyc

Which you naturally failed to link >>

791 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:28:50pm

re: #784 Killgore Trout

List of designated terrorist organizations

Notice a pattern?

My GOD man,,, they all have Pennsylvania Dutch/ Amish roots!!

792 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:29:20pm

re: #783 Bagua

re: #776 windsagio

Thanks. While I find Sharia law abhorrent I wouldn't deport a citizen for advocating it.

That's the line, really. You can deeply disagree with something, but wanting to deport someone for their religious faith is deeply Unamerican. (Now actively advocating a crime is something else entirely :p)

793 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:29:22pm

re: #784 Killgore Trout

List of designated terrorist organizations

Notice a pattern?

What are the odds of them being alphabetical like that? Its diabolic.

794 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:29:25pm

re: #781 Charles

SissyWillis?
Um, great name, guy.
///

795 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:29:44pm

re: #784 Killgore Trout

List of designated terrorist organizations

Notice a pattern?

Yes, I'm noticing that the EU apparently has their heads up their collective asses regarding terrorist organizations.

796 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:29:53pm

re: #784 Killgore Trout

List of designated terrorist organizations

Notice a pattern?

Islam?

797 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:29:56pm

re: #794 Floral Giraffe

SissyWillis?
Um, great name, guy.
///

"Whatchyu talking bout, Willis!?!"

798 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:30:00pm

re: #788 Slumbering Behemoth

I was afeared you wouldn't get the reference.

/Nerd-side points gained.

I never finished reading the series. Cheesy stuff, but it appealed to me at the time.

He's a furry!

Of course he read the hell out of those!

799 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:30:04pm

re: #788 Slumbering Behemoth

I was afeared you wouldn't get the reference.

/Nerd-side points gained.

I never finished reading the series. Cheesy stuff, but it appealed to me at the time.

The first three or so books were the ones I really liked (spooky mystic power animal shapechanger indians RAD) but they started to lose my interest around book 6 or 7. :P

800 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:30:08pm

re: #781 Charles

Traffic! :D

801 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:30:15pm

re: #794 Floral Giraffe

SissyWillis?
Um, great name, guy.
///

His mistress gave it to him

802 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:30:27pm

re: #787 alexknyc

A quick Google search found that there have been Sharia courts operating in Britain for several years now.

First of all, we're not Britain.

/

803 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:30:30pm

re: #799 WindUpBird

Series creep is a bitch.

I can think of very few that were good after book 3.

804 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:30:35pm

re: #790 windsagio

Which you naturally failed to link >>

I Googled Britain and Sharia law. The first 3 of over 10,000 results gave me that info.

Didn't think it would be that difficult.

805 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:30:50pm

re: #785 Spare O'Lake

Actually, if you were following the MSM you would have seen them clamouring for weeks for Obama to get mad and to get tough with BP. Then, lo and behold, Obama started coming out with these bullshit macho soundbites which have rung so hollow.

See, they don't ring hollow to me, but then again, I voted for Obama. :)

806 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:31:00pm

re: #796 Racer X

Islam?

Blasphemy!
/

807 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:31:06pm

re: #801 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

His mistress gave it to him

Oh, No. You didn't say that?
LOL!

808 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:31:21pm

re: #804 alexknyc

Just call it a natural suspicion. If someone references a search but doesn't link it, its a good bet they're just hoping you'll take it on faith and not look yourself.

That's internet 101 stuff.

809 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:31:26pm

U.S. Air Forces in Europe - Units

3rd Air Force, Ramstein AB, Germany
Aviano AB, Italy
RAF Alconbury, England
RAF Mildenhall, England
Spangdahlem AB, Germany
17th Air Force, Ramstein AB, Germany
Incirlik AB, Turkey
Lajes Air Station, Portugal
RAF Lakenheath, England
Ramstein AB, Germany

U.S. Army Europe - Units

United States Army Europe (USAREUR)
Heidelberg, Germany
V Corps
Heidelberg, Germany
170th Infantry Brigade (170th IBCT)
Baumholder, Germany
172nd Infantry Brigade (172nd IBCT)
Grafenwoehr, Germany
173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team (173rd ABCT)
Vicenza, Italy
2nd Stryker Cavalry Regiment (2SCR)
Vilseck, Germany
2nd Stryker Cavalry Regiment (2SCR)
Vilseck, Germany
1st Armored Division (1AD)
Wiesbaden, Germany
21st Theater Sustainment Command (21st TSC)
Kaiserslautern, Germany
7th Civil Support Command (7th CSC)
Kaiserslautern, Germany
7th Army Joint Multinational Training Command (7th JMTC)
Grafenwoehr, Germany
5th Signal Command (5th SIG)
Mannheim, Germany
Europe Regional Medical Command (ERMC)
Heidelberg, Germany
66th Military Intelligence Group (66th MI)
Wiesbaden, Germany
202nd Military Police Group (Criminal Investigation Division CID) Seckenheim, Germany
Installation Management Command - Europe (IMCOM-E)
Heidelberg, Germany
Multinational Battle Group East
Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo
Joint Task Force - East
Mihail Kogalniceanu, Romania
19th Battlefield Coordination Detachment (19th BCD)
Ramstein, Germany
United States Army Expeditionary Contracting Command, Europe (ECC-E) Seckenheim, Germany

810 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:31:49pm

re: #806 Killgore Trout

Blasphemy!
/

I KEEL YOU!

811 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:32:11pm

re: #807 Floral Giraffe

Oh, No. You didn't say that?
LOL!

I could have sworn I did.

812 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:32:17pm

re: #808 windsagio

Just call it a natural suspicion. If someone references a search but doesn't link it, its a good bet they're just hoping you'll take it on faith and not look yourself.

That's internet 101 stuff.

[Link: www.google.com...]

813 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:32:22pm

Here is the second part of my thoughts on Shabbos...

When I first went and did a full proper Shabbos, what I was struck by, was that everything that my Christian friends would get misty and sentimental over when speaking of Christmas was there - and we have it every week!

From the get go, a Shabbos home is something special. The effort that was taken to make it a Shabbos home shines through. You are overwhelmed by warmth. The lady of the house has taken the time to look like a queen. She has lit the candles. The smell of good food permeates the place. Everything is a little more shiny.

The Shabbos meal starts with truly beautiful moments of recognition. The psalm Ayshet Chayil is sung to honor the ladies present. I was shocked when I first read the description of a Woman of Valor. I was expecting a nightmare for feminism. She is no wallflower at all. She is brave and strong and noble. She is kind and resolute. She runs a business. She has strong arms. She has a strong heart. Wisdom comes from her lips. When a husband sings it, it is no more, or less, than an open declaration from a man to his wife that she is all he could hope for and more. When children sing it to their mother, it is everything that mother's day should be - said vastly more eloquently than a greeting card.

The children are blessed. This is intensely touching to see. It is no more or less than parents pouring their best wishes onto their kids and strongly, openly, letting them know that they are always loved and that they will always have a family behind them. I personally look forward
to performing this mitzvah above all others.

There are blessings said - reflections on what you have been given.

Then there is the meal....

Then there is talk about the weekly Torah portion and spiritual matters. There is time for the kids to show off their learning both in Torah and academics. Intellectual matters are explored too. Everyone has their own taste as to how to go about this but, the idea of raising the conversation to the loftiest possible (at least once a week) is a good one. It reminds one that there is more to life than the office, or the latest celebrity nonsense.

and dessert....

And of course, there is going to schul. Ohhhhh but walking is a drag....

You need the exercise anyway!

The walk gives you time to think. Why not make going to schul a meaningful experience? The walk is a chance to put your mind in a place where if you are going to try to talk to G-d, you at least say what you really need to say.

That is part of what it all means. Every piece has its place. Every ritual is there to remind you of something bigger and more noble. Life is bigger and more magical than the mundane. We just have to take the time to look for it. Shabbos reminds you of this and forces you to look for these things. It affirms that we can be better people. It is actually in our power if we work on it. That is why I fell in love with Shabbos. That is why I bother.

814 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:32:33pm

re: #793 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

What are the odds of them being alphabetical like that? Its diabolic.

They're terrorists, but they DO follow the laws of grammar!
/

815 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:32:59pm

re: #812 alexknyc

[Link: www.google.com...]

First of all, we're not Britain.

/

816 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:33:10pm

re: #812 alexknyc

I actually searched it myself.

As interesting an experiment as it is, get back to me when they start trying real criminal cases under Sharia.

817 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:33:11pm

re: #780 windsagio

Whups, you stole my thunder by posting the passage I was thinking of.

Oh yeah, MUSLIMS ARE NAZIS TOO!

Forgot that.

Indeed, some past and some modern Muslims are at bare minimum neo-Nazis.

Much as you may wish to pose this as an idea worth mocking, they are in fact more dangerous and more neo-Nazi than many of the people who have earned that label on this forum, without a peep from you except approval.

818 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:33:35pm

re: #815 Racer X

I think I heard that somewhere, before >>

819 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:33:37pm

re: #784 Killgore Trout

List of designated terrorist organizations

Notice a pattern?

Scandinavians!

//

820 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:34:10pm

re: #816 windsagio

I actually searched it myself.

As interesting an experiment as it is, get back to me when they start trying real criminal cases under Sharia.

Keep moving those goalposts.

821 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:34:11pm

re: #816 windsagio

I actually searched it myself.

As interesting an experiment as it is, get back to me when they start trying real criminal cases under Sharia.

I'm thinking you don't get it.

Sharia is not about LAW.

It is about control.

822 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:34:14pm

re: #817 Bagua

That article deserves nothing but scorn.

Its evil hatemongering.

823 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:34:37pm

re: #773 windsagio

Problem is they'll never have any chance of becoming law anyways (Sharia that is). Its populist rhetoric based on fears of Islam at best.

Perhaps, but there has been talk of Sharia courts operating with authority along side British courts in England. It's a hideous separate but equal thing in my mind.

Still, I do not think we need to pass a law banning Sharia Law anymore than we need to pass one banning Leviticus Law. Both would be naturally and obviously illegal in America.

/And just because I like the poem: Sharia Law

824 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:34:38pm

re: #820 alexknyc

Keep moving those goalposts.

Score!

825 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:35:13pm

re: #821 Racer X

CONTROL! Got it.

Still, evne that level won't happen in the US unless by some magic we get a supermajority Islamic population.

826 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:35:39pm

re: #781 Charles

White supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is all worked up again: Robert Stacy McCain (rsmccain) on Twitter

It's got to be painful for him to have you living in his head. I think he gets especially cranky during your guitar practice.

827 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:36:42pm

re: #820 alexknyc

What? You guys like that term.

I'll repeat, I think that the fears of Britain falling under Sharia law are trumped up at best.

re: #823 Slumbering Behemoth

Perhaps, but there has been talk of Sharia courts operating with authority along side British courts in England. It's a hideous separate but equal thing in my mind.

Still, I do not think we need to pass a law banning Sharia Law anymore than we need to pass one banning Leviticus Law. Both would be naturally and obviously illegal in America.

/And just because I like the poem: Sharia Law

See, THIS is a point. Its all kinds of messed up. Its also not them taking over power. Its also not possible in the US.

828 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:36:44pm

re: #825 windsagio

CONTROL! Got it.

Still, evne that level won't happen in the US unless by some magic we get a supermajority Islamic population.

Or Obama rewrites the Constitution and makes Islam the official state religion.

//

829 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:37:08pm

re: #825 windsagio

CONTROL! Got it.

Still, evne that level won't happen in the US unless by some magic we get a supermajority Islamic population.

changing/adding things to our culture and lives isn't dependent on needed "supermajorities"

"Dial 1 for English ,,, 2 for ,,,,,"


just sayin!

830 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:37:09pm

re: #828 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

All of a sudden it all makes sense!

831 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:37:24pm

re: #825 windsagio

CONTROL! Got it.

Still, evne that level won't happen in the US unless by some magic we get a supermajority Islamic population.

Still don't get it.

They desire pockets where Sharia law rules. U.S. Law - not so much. They got that in Britain now. Which you denied until proven wrong. Which way are those goalposts going next?

832 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:37:39pm

re: #829 sattv4u2

lol@bringing that up :p

833 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:37:44pm

re: #781 Charles

White supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is all worked up again: Robert Stacy McCain (rsmccain) on Twitter

I still want to destroy Pamela Geller as a credible source for the rightscream media.

Does that make me a bad person?

834 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:38:05pm

re: #832 windsagio

lol@bringing that up :p

lol@whistling past graveyards

835 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:38:40pm

re: #833 Cato the Elder

I still want to destroy Pamela Geller as a credible source for the rightscream media.

Does that make me a bad person?

Not at all

You BEING a bad person makes you a bad person!!

//

836 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:38:50pm

re: #831 Racer X

You just think it'll happen, what, by magic? Is there any significant movement to MAKE it happen in the US, or is it just Paranoid fantasy?

837 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:39:19pm

re: #834 sattv4u2

well I presumed you weren't serious, if you are, its a terrible comparison :P

838 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:39:54pm

re: #837 windsagio

well I presumed you weren't serious, if you are, its a terrible comparison :P

only because you say so

got it!

839 Kragar  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:40:02pm

re: #835 sattv4u2

Not at all

You BEING a bad person makes you a bad person!!

//

Right up there with "No, the pants don't make you look fat, your enormous ass does that perfectly fine on its own."

840 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:40:08pm

re: #762 WindUpBird

I think he meant it colloquially though. I don't think anyone really expects Obama to take off his jacket and throw hands :D

Of course not. But if he did, and put it on someone who really deserved it, I would vote for him in '12 despite me being a republican.

/You hear that, Barack? Physically kick someone's ass who really has it coming, and you will win my vote.

841 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:41:00pm

re: #838 sattv4u2

I didn't follow the whole fight over that very closely, so help me out.

Are you saying that the Government is doing that (and is it even true, because I remember people were disputing it), or was it companies?

Whether your comparison is anything at all depends largely on the answer to that question.

842 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:41:08pm

re: #827 windsagio

What? You guys like that term.

I'll repeat, I think that the fears of Britain falling under Sharia law are trumped up at best.

...

Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violenc

843 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:41:24pm

re: #836 windsagio

You just think it'll happen, what, by magic? Is there any significant movement to MAKE it happen in the US, or is it just Paranoid fantasy?

iirc there has already been groups requesting Sharia law in the U.S.

Not for every U.S. citizen - just select groups.

And I'm not paranoid I'm just pointing out it is happening. Like it or not.

844 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:41:28pm

re: #840 Slumbering Behemoth

What if he breaks the filibuster with his fists?!

845 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:42:04pm

re: #842 Bagua

Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violenc

First of all, we're not Britain.

/

846 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:42:05pm

re: #843 Racer X

There also people in the US requesting the expulsion of Jews and Negros. Doesn't mean its a remotely likely scenario that they actually get their way.

847 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:42:26pm

re: #783 Bagua

re: #776 windsagio

Thanks. While I find Sharia law abhorrent I wouldn't deport a citizen for advocating it.

Under Sharia law punishments couldn't really be carried in the absence of an Islamic state/infrastructure because there would be a bunch of possibly extenuating circumstances that would have to be taken into account, and there would also be a need for Muslim judges, courts, authorities to answer to, etc.

As I mentioned the other day, Muslims living in non-Muslim countries are required to obey the existing laws of the land in which they live, provided that their lives & safety aren't being threatened and that they required to do something forbidden—e.g. if there was a law that said I had to go out and drink alcohol every Saturday night, I would be obligated to break it.

I didn't look at the article since it sounds like it's full of bile, but I would imagine that the parts of sharia any Muslim in the West would be concerned with would be more civil in nature—e.g. things like inheritance and such (and even then, only if agreed upon by all parties).

848 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:42:27pm

Colbert had the Israeli ambassador on tonight. It's worth watching when they post it online.

849 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:42:57pm

re: #846 windsagio

There also people in the US requesting the expulsion of Jews and Negros. Doesn't mean its a remotely likely scenario that they actually get their way.

Why do you not run cover for them like you do for the Islamists?

850 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:43:59pm

re: #837 windsagio

well I presumed you weren't serious, if you are, its a terrible comparison :P

I presumed he wasn't serious too. But there you go, our culture already lost to los terribles Mexicanos, so no point worrying about Sharia. We have nothing left to lose.

851 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:44:02pm

re: #847 CuriousLurker

now I feel bad :(

Thanks for being a reality check and not getting annoyed ;)

852 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:44:04pm

re: #841 windsagio

I didn't follow the whole fight over that very closely, so help me out.

Are you saying that the Government is doing that (and is it even true, because I remember people were disputing it), or was it companies?

Whether your comparison is anything at all depends largely on the answer to that question.

Go into a DMV,, see how many languages the tests are in (I think California has the most)

853 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:44:38pm

re: #849 Bagua

Man, I thought you were tired of all the threads being about me >>

854 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:45:12pm

re: #846 windsagio

There also people in the US requesting the expulsion of Jews and Negros. Doesn't mean its a remotely likely scenario that they actually get their way.

Fuck.

I cannot even see those goalposts anymore.

We're done right?

855 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:45:31pm

re: #850 Nimed

I presumed he wasn't serious too. But there you go, our culture already lost to los terribles Mexicanos, so no point worrying about Sharia. We have nothing left to lose.

waytomissthepoihnt

(but you knew that , didn't you!!)

856 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:46:30pm

re: #852 sattv4u2

I think you can get it in Hmong in OR/WA. Does that mean we have to worry about them taking over too?

857 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:47:23pm

re: #854 Racer X

You use 'moving the goalposts' like a magic spell for 'make the other guy wrong'.

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

858 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:47:24pm

re: #842 Bagua

Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violenc

The domestic violence one is troubling. I'm not saying I like the rest, but that's what arbitration is.

Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.
859 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:47:48pm

re: #827 windsagio

See, THIS is a point. Its all kinds of messed up. Its also not them taking over power. Its also not possible in the US.

It's not entirely possible that it will be legitimately recognized here, but it is entirely possible that it will be carried out in a clandestine fashion. I've no doubt that it already has been.

But the "laws on the books" here in America already make illegal the laws of Sharia or Leviticus. I do not see the need for passing new legislation explicitly banning either.

860 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:48:18pm

re: #856 windsagio

I think you can get it in Hmong in OR/WA. Does that mean we have to worry about them taking over too?

Nobody said ANYTHING about "taking over", be it signs in Spanish, DMV tests in Hmong, nor Sharia law in SOME instances

but you knew that ,, didn't you

861 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:48:21pm

re: #842 Bagua

Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violenc

lol

In the same article:
Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.
(...)
Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

862 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:48:47pm

re: #861 Nimed

gmta

863 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:49:20pm

re: #859 Slumbering Behemoth

People doing it in secret is a different case, of course. Crimes ougtta be prosecuted >>

864 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:49:27pm

re: #750 CuriousLurker

Philosophically & practically speaking, Sufis are about as far as you can get from the Wahhabis.

I think that perhaps you and I might agree that Sufism is to Islam what Quakers are to Christianity.

As an aside: have you every delved into the "Orientalist" books of Captain Sir Richard Francis Burton?

He was the truly great linguist and adventurer who made the Haj under disguise.

He never rose beyond the rank of captain (though he was knighted) because he "went native" and understood the "subjects" of his inquiries all too well.

He knew more about Islam than most Muslims. He translated the "Thousand Nights and a Night" from the Arabic into immortal English prose that is still the gold standard.

And he has the inestimable advantage of having published on the "Orient" before Edward Said poisoned the well with his absurd PC denigration of everything ever written by "Westerners" about "the East".

Highly recommended.

865 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:49:42pm

re: #861 Nimed

re: #862 JasonA

You guys answered it way better than the post I was composing to thank you :)

866 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:50:05pm

re: #857 windsagio

You use 'moving the goalposts' like a magic spell for 'make the other guy wrong'.

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

I think the proper response from you would have been "Yep. I was mistaken about Sharia law in Britain".

See how easy it was?

867 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:50:21pm

re: #858 JasonA

Damn you, Jason!
(this phrase is much more satisfying with a last name)

868 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:50:54pm

re: #843 Racer X

iirc there has already been groups requesting Sharia law in the U.S.

Not for every U.S. citizen - just select groups.

And I'm not paranoid I'm just pointing out it is happening. Like it or not.

That's the "separate but equal" thing I was referring to. Disgusting, illegitimate, and illegal. Under current law.

869 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:51:26pm

A suggestion. You might want to read the actual proposed law in Oklahoma.


HJR1056 - Constitutional amendment; creating the Save Our State Amendment; requiring the courts to uphold and adhere to federal and state law.

C. The Courts provided for in subsection A of this section, when exercising their judicial authority, shall uphold and adhere to the law as provided in the United States Constitution, the Oklahoma Constitution, the United States Code, federal regulations promulgated pursuant thereto, established common law, and the Oklahoma Statutes and rules promulgated pursuant thereto in making judicial decisions. The courts shall not look to the legal precepts of other nations or cultures. Specifically, the courts shall not consider international law or Sharia Law. The provisions of this subsection shall apply to all cases before the respective courts including, but not limited to, cases of first impression.

870 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:52:18pm

Seems reasonable to me.

871 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:52:59pm

re: #868 Slumbering Behemoth

That's the "separate but equal" thing I was referring to. Disgusting, illegitimate, and illegal. Under current law.

And they are doing it right now in Britain.

And if I'm not mistaken some here are defending it.

hmm.

Sekrit Muslims?

872 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:53:37pm

re: #866 Racer X

The original thing I said was that "I think the fears about Britain 'falling under Sharia law' are trumped up at best."

Them having courts of arbirtration under longstanding UK law does not feed any rational fears of 'britian falling under sharia law'.

873 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:54:03pm

re: #844 windsagio

What if he breaks the filibuster with his fists?!

Not good enough. He has to, like, beat the crap outta some wannabe gangsta kids who like to beat homeless people with bats, or something like that.

874 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:54:45pm

I crack myself up.

Actually, I think it is the Tequila.

875 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:54:53pm

re: #847 CuriousLurker

Under Sharia law punishments couldn't really be carried in the absence of an Islamic state/infrastructure because there would be a bunch of possibly extenuating circumstances that would have to be taken into account, and there would also be a need for Muslim judges, courts, authorities to answer to, etc.

Ridiculous, I know. Couldn't happen here and stuff.

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

As I mentioned the other day, Muslims living in non-Muslim countries are required to obey the existing laws of the land in which they live, provided that their lives & safety aren't being threatened and that they required to do something forbidden—e.g. if there was a law that said I had to go out and drink alcohol every Saturday night, I would be obligated to break it.

The problem isn't with them obeying the laws of the land, the problem is with them adding and enforcing abhorrent laws of their own.


I didn't look at the article since it sounds like it's full of bile, but I would imagine that the parts of sharia any Muslim in the West would be concerned with would be more civil in nature—e.g. things like inheritance and such (and even then, only if agreed upon by all parties).

The bit winsagio repeated was bile, which was a blog post. The actual article had no bile. Make no mistake that the Sharia being advocated is abhorrent. Of course it is "civil", it is about regulating person behaviour and lifestyle to conform with rigid guidelines.

876 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:54:54pm

re: #873 Slumbering Behemoth

What if he took part in a commando raid and personally knifed Bin Laden?

877 webevintage  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:55:19pm

re: #781 Charles

White supremacist Robert Stacy McCain is all worked up again: Robert Stacy McCain (rsmccain) on Twitter

He also mentioned Palin's boobs....
Real or not?

(I say she got a boob job. I would too if I had a nice influx of cash gravity and time gets to the best of us.)

878 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:55:37pm

re: #851 windsagio

now I feel bad :(

Thanks for being a reality check and not getting annoyed ;)

No need to feel bad, wind.

I think would be good for everyone if we could talk calmly about the whole Islam thing more often, so I figure I have to start with myself, right?

For the record, I do get annoyed on occasion, but I'm not about to let anyone goad me into an emotional outburst and ruin my evening, nor am I inclined to get into a pissing match with someone who already has their mind made up.

But, hey, that's just me. ;o)

879 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:56:21pm

re: #875 Bagua

Outlawing the tenets of someone elses faith is always unacceptable, unless those tenets are already illegal. In the latter case, outlawing them is just unnecessary.

880 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:56:28pm

re: #853 windsagio

Man, I thought you were tired of all the threads being about me >>

How could the threads not be about you when every third post is yours?

881 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:57:03pm

re: #878 CuriousLurker

It annoys me because I'm harder on Islam on here than I really believe, because I get too much crap otherwise :p

You inadvertantly reminded me of my own moral cowardice :P

882 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:57:04pm

re: #872 windsagio

But it does create a "separate but equal" atmosphere that I won't lend legitimacy to.

883 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:57:46pm

re: #882 Slumbering Behemoth

They seem to want to work it that way, its their country.

That's exactly WHY it woudln't fly in the US tho'. Shades of civil rights violations.

884 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:58:22pm

re: #842 Bagua

Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violenc

Britain is so fucked, and the fascist backlashes to the jihadist advances continue to gather steam there and across Europe.
But no need to worry, it could never happen in America...surely not the imposition of Sharia Law, at least...and yet judging from the political discourse around here, the fear of fascism in America seems real enough, does it not?

885 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:58:29pm

re: #880 Bagua

How could the threads not be about you when every third post is yours?

makes me wish I had taken typing in high sch instead of Home Ec.!
(on the plus side ,, I make a MEAN meatloaf !!)

886 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:58:32pm

re: #875 Bagua

I noticed the Edmonton Sun reference. I noted the actual law but will repeat it again:

C. The Courts provided for in subsection A of this section, when exercising their judicial authority, shall uphold and adhere to the law as provided in the United States Constitution, the Oklahoma Constitution, the United States Code, federal regulations promulgated pursuant thereto, established common law, and the Oklahoma Statutes and rules promulgated pursuant thereto in making judicial decisions. The courts shall not look to the legal precepts of other nations or cultures. Specifically, the courts shall not consider international law or Sharia Law. The provisions of this subsection shall apply to all cases before the respective courts including, but not limited to, cases of first impression.

At worst it's redundant because that's how courts should be operating regardless. That is, they're only supposed to follow United States Constitution, the state Constitutions, and the United States Code. They're not supposed to be following a UN resolution crafted in a Ugandan resort.

887 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 9:59:23pm

re: #885 sattv4u2

Lol blame my mom. She bought one of those stupid 'learn to type' apple 2 programs and made me do a damn half-hour a day in elementary school.

888 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:01:13pm

re: #861 Nimed


Lol.

Do you equate the Sharia law with the activities of the Jewish Beth Din? Why is that funny?

889 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:01:14pm

re: #882 Slumbering Behemoth

But it does create a "separate but equal" atmosphere that I won't lend legitimacy to.

So, just so we're clear, what you are against is Britain's arbitration laws -- you are against the Jewish Ben Din courts too, right?

890 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:02:25pm

re: #888 Bagua

Do you equate the Sharia law with the activities of the Jewish Beth Din? Why is that funny?

As long as they are compatible with Britain's legal system, I absolutely equate them.

891 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:02:46pm

re: #888 Bagua

Because they're allowed under the same British law, the very one you're objecting to for allowing Sharia courts?

I think its ironic, which is a bit different than funny, admittedly.

892 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:03:58pm

re: #858 JasonA

The domestic violence one is troubling. I'm not saying I like the rest, but that's what arbitration is.

I am willing to say I abhor the rest. It is disgusting and intrusive.

893 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:04:14pm

re: #881 windsagio

It annoys me because I'm harder on Islam on here than I really believe, because I get too much crap otherwise :p

You inadvertantly reminded me of my own moral cowardice :P

Why not just be yourself?

I have always expressed my true feelings. I've been smacked around quite bit for it at times, but I learn from it.

894 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:04:20pm

Also. This Oklahoma law does not prevent the private practice of Sharia that does not violate any local, state or Federal laws. It does not "ban Sharia."

895 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:04:54pm

re: #884 Spare O'Lake

Sharia law isn't being imposed. Two parties have the option of going to an arbiter even here in the states, and I don't find it hard to imagine a Sharia court here at all. I don't like imagining it, but I'm not entirely certain what's in place that's stopping it.

Criminal cases are a completely different matter and I don't foresee hands being cut off.

896 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:05:28pm

re: #893 Racer X

God knows I try, but we all occasionally have moments of weakness. And that's what it is. You don't even realize what you've done until its pointed out (to be a little melodramatic :P)

897 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:06:39pm

The only solution is to change the rules for arbitration. That will affect other people's lives. I wish it could be a really simple matter to get rid of it, but it's not.

898 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:06:44pm

re: #847 CuriousLurker

Under Sharia law punishments couldn't really be carried in the absence of an Islamic state/infrastructure because there would be a bunch of possibly extenuating circumstances that would have to be taken into account, and there would also be a need for Muslim judges, courts, authorities to answer to, etc.

As I mentioned the other day, Muslims living in non-Muslim countries are required to obey the existing laws of the land in which they live, provided that their lives & safety aren't being threatened and that they required to do something forbidden—e.g. if there was a law that said I had to go out and drink alcohol every Saturday night, I would be obligated to break it.

I didn't look at the article since it sounds like it's full of bile, but I would imagine that the parts of sharia any Muslim in the West would be concerned with would be more civil in nature—e.g. things like inheritance and such (and even then, only if agreed upon by all parties).

One of the big issues is whether, for example, a Muslim woman's submission to Sharia Law is truly voluntary, or whether she is being coerced by religious, family and peer pressure. In Canada enforcement of Sharia has been rejected by the government largely due to concerns like this.

899 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:08:19pm

re: #891 windsagio

Because they're allowed under the same British law, the very one you're objecting to for allowing Sharia courts?

I think its ironic, which is a bit different than funny, admittedly.

So you consider the functions of the modern Beth Din in Britain with the empowerment of Sharia law? Do you realise that one is simply a formality for such things as divorce and voluntary arbitration of business disputes and the other seeks to regulate personal morality?

I see you know nothing about this subject.

900 Racer X  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:09:02pm

re: #896 windsagio

God knows I try, but we all occasionally have moments of weakness. And that's what it is. You don't even realize what you've done until its pointed out (to be a little melodramatic :P)

Believe in yourself; believe in your convictions.

I've said not so nice things to Lizards that I've regretted. But I was being me. I've pissed Charles off once or twice. He still lets me come here. I thank him for that. There are good people here. We do NOT always agree.

901 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:09:37pm

re: #899 Bagua

I see you didn't read the entirity of the article you yourself linked.

Here it is again:

Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.
(...)
Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

Under the UK law in question, they're the same thing.

902 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:10:09pm

re: #864 Cato the Elder

I think that perhaps you and I might agree that Sufism is to Islam what Quakers are to Christianity.

Exactly.

As an aside: have you every delved into the "Orientalist" books of Captain Sir Richard Francis Burton?

Yes, he was great. I read his qasida as well as his translation of the "Thousand Nights and a Night". I'm currently re-reading my way through the six vlumes of the Mardrus & Mathers translation of the same. They're decidedly not the versions I heard as a child! LOL

FWIW, I cam to Islam through the Sufi door so to speak, so my whole understanding of Islam is colored by that approach. It's one of the things that helps keep me calm when the nastiness starts flying—I just revert to khalwat dar anjuman (solitude in the crowd).

903 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:10:14pm

re: #900 Racer X

true enough :p

Usually its not a problem either, hell I take you guys on on Israel issues :D

Interesting subject tho'

904 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:12:24pm

re: #875 Bagua

Thanks, I'll have to bookmark it and go back & read it later.

905 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:12:31pm

re: #886 Gus 802

I noticed the Edmonton Sun reference. I noted the actual law but will repeat it again:

At worst it's redundant because that's how courts should be operating regardless. That is, they're only supposed to follow United States Constitution, the state Constitutions, and the United States Code. They're not supposed to be following a UN resolution crafted in a Ugandan resort.

Correct, fortunately Americans have constitutional protections which the Brits lack. Pity for them. But while Americans don't have to worry about such things being mandated, sometimes things that are permitted constitutionally have to be made illegal to deter unacceptable behaviour.

906 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:17:42pm

re: #895 JasonA

See my #898. Also, the fact is that many aspects of Sharia Law, especially as regards women's rights, are far less compatible with British or American Law than, for example, Jewish Law.

907 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:20:11pm

re: #898 Spare O'Lake

One of the big issues is whether, for example, a Muslim woman's submission to Sharia Law is truly voluntary, or whether she is being coerced by religious, family and peer pressure. In Canada enforcement of Sharia has been rejected by the government largely due to concerns like this.

I can see that being a legitimate concern, especially for immigrant women who are probably more likely to be susceptible to coercion & intimidation (i.e. they may not speak English well, they may be financially dependent on their families and/or have no skills with which to earn a living, etc.)

908 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:22:01pm

re: #901 windsagio

Consider my #898 and #906. Sharia Law's treatment of women in matrimonial matters and estate matters is largely repugnant with basic Western values. Jewish Law not so much.

909 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:24:01pm

re: #908 Spare O'Lake

with to
PIMF

910 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:26:01pm

re: #908 Spare O'Lake

Doesn't really matter to my point tho', its not whether they're better or worse, they're identical under the law.

Whether they should be is up to the British court system.

911 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:26:10pm

re: #902 CuriousLurker

Yes, he was great. I read his qasida as well as his translation of the "Thousand Nights and a Night". I'm currently re-reading my way through the six vlumes of the Mardrus & Mathers translation of the same. They're decidedly not the versions I heard as a child! LOL

FWIW, I cam to Islam through the Sufi door so to speak, so my whole understanding of Islam is colored by that approach. It's one of the things that helps keep me calm when the nastiness starts flying—I just revert to khalwat dar anjuman (solitude in the crowd).

You wanna marry me right now?

Serious offer.

Hell, grrrl, Grimm's Fairy Tales in the original would be banned as children's literature today. Ain't no Disney World.

Burton is one of my true heroes. He was called "The White N*g*er" by his messmates for trying to understand the peoples his Empire sent him to rule. He learned their languages, dressed in their dress, and was a scholar and a gentleman in multiple cultures.

He got that scar on his face fighting in Somalia.

He was by most accounts an extremely ugly man, but his wife said she never met anyone more beautiful.

His bones rest in a marble Bedouin tent in England.

If I could resurrect at will, his would be the ghost that I would call up from amongst the shades of the dead to guide us to understanding of one another.

He was in fact a Sufi adept, and a devotee of the sword dance. The real one, not that silly Yemeni farce I posted about earlier. When his corpse was examined after death, the doctor reported that it was "covered with fine scars" ("fine" in the old sense of "barely visible"), plainly incurred in the trance state of dancing.

Oh! How I honor him cannot be told.

912 freetoken  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:27:48pm

re: #884 Spare O'Lake

...and yet judging from the political discourse around here, the fear of fascism in America seems real enough, does it not?

Given the dalliance of some American civil leaders (pre WWII) with fascism, and the rather strong xenophobia that surfaces in American society from time to time, I'd say yes, we ought to be much more concerned about fascism in this country than about Sharia.

913 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:29:14pm

re: #890 Nimed

As long as they are compatible with Britain's legal system, I absolutely equate them.

You should read up on Sharia law, it is by no means even remotely comparable to Jewish people in Britain advocate.

The Jewish version has the ability to grant a divorce, or serve as a mediator in a minor dispute.

The Sharia version has rules that enforce moral codes and personal behaviour. For example:

All homosexuals should be stoned to death, says Muslim preacher of hate

He is in London where there are numerous similar examples. You will be hard pressed to find a Rabbi give a press conference or sermon like this.

And in fact, this reflects modern Sharia law as all four schools of Sunni Islam not only outlaw homosexual acts, something they all agree with, they all advocate punishments:

* The Hanafi school does not consider same-sex intercourse to constitute adultery, and therefore leaves punishment up to the judge's discretion. Most early scholars of this school specifically ruled out the death penalty, others allow it for a second offence.

* Imam Shafi'i considers same-sex intercourse as analogous to other zina; thus, a married person found to have done so is punished as an adulterer (by stoning to death), and an unmarried one, as a fornicator, is left to be flogged.

* The Maliki school says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer.

* Within the Ja'fari schools, Sayyid al-Khoi says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer.

Sharia law in the year 2010 really is a vile thing that should be legislated against. Modern Jewish law is really quite benign and has no agenda to impose its will on non-orthodox Jews.

914 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:30:54pm

re: #910 windsagio

Doesn't really matter to my point tho', its not whether they're better or worse, they're identical under the law.

Whether they should be is up to the British court system.

Like I said, Britain is fucked.

915 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:31:44pm

re: #914 Spare O'Lake

Don't really think so, this is a mountain/molehill kind of thing :P

916 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:31:47pm

re: #905 Bagua

Correct, fortunately Americans have constitutional protections which the Brits lack. Pity for them. But while Americans don't have to worry about such things being mandated, sometimes things that are permitted constitutionally have to be made illegal to deter unacceptable behaviour.

Yes. People may want to criticize the Oklahoma law however they have the right to create such a law under the 10th Amendment.

Here's a more practical example I found in Wiki:

The status of foreign law

Generally, when the court is to apply a foreign law, it must be proved by foreign law experts. It cannot merely be pleaded, as the court has no expertise in the laws of foreign countries nor in how they might be applied in a foreign court. Such foreign law may be considered no more than evidence, rather than law because of the issue of sovereignty. If the local court is actually giving extraterritorial effect to a foreign law, it is less than sovereign and so acting in a way that is potentially unconstitutional...

On the other hand, it could mean that the rule is being applied to a factual situation that occurred beyond the territory of its state of origin. As an example of this situation, one can think of an American court applying British tort statutes and case law to a car accident that took place in London where both the driver and the victim are British citizens but the lawsuit was brought in before the American courts because the driver's insurer is American. One can then argue that since the factual situation is within the British territory, where an American judge applies the English Law, he does not give an extraterritorial application to the foreign rule. In fact, one can also argue that the American judge, had he applied American Law, would be doing so in an extraterritorial fashion.

At best it can only be accepted as evidence. That is if the judge allows it. However, under no circumstances should foreign legal precepts (both secular or theological) be allowed.

Why would they make such a law? Well, there are those that may want to apply it in our courts. For example:

International Law in Domestic Courts: A Conflict of Laws Approach
Cornell Law Faculty Working Papers - 2009

[The] parallel with conflicts changes international law in domestic courts from a specific problem addressed by international and constitutional lawyers into a general problem of relativism – which, we argue, conflict of laws is uniquely positioned to address. Here, the technicality of conflict of laws is not a shortcoming but a strength. The “conflict-of-laws machine,” we argue, is a way to reach a result without yielding to arbitrariness in the face of otherwise insurmountable complexity. Accordingly, we describe our larger project as “theory through technique.” This project will use private international law as a way of thinking through problems of legal, political and cultural relativism, including multiculturalism and transitional justice, as well as international law in domestic courts...

917 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:32:43pm

re: #916 Gus 802

Sharia, for the record, isn't actually International Law.

918 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:33:12pm

re: #912 freetoken

Given the dalliance of some American civil leaders (pre WWII) with fascism, and the rather strong xenophobia that surfaces in American society from time to time, I'd say yes, we ought to be much more concerned about fascism in this country than about Sharia.

Yes, and the danger to the separation clause which that would entail.

919 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:33:20pm

re: #913 Bagua

Seriously dude, even if we granted every single thing you're saying it doesn't change the fact that the two are identical under British law.

920 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:33:51pm

re: #918 Spare O'Lake

except there really is no (realistic) danger.

921 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:34:26pm

re: #917 windsagio

Sharia, for the record, isn't actually International Law.

This is specific to the Oklahoma law. Saudi Arabia governs under Sharia Law. Therefore in the context of Saudi Arabia it is International Law.

[Link: www.cfr.org...]

922 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:34:36pm

re: #908 Spare O'Lake

Consider my #898 and #906. Sharia Law's treatment of women in matrimonial matters and estate matters is largely repugnant with basic Western values. Jewish Law not so much.

I don't find it repugnant, and I don't know of anyone who would consider me the shrinking violet, submissive type. ;o)

Sharia law isn't a simple thing—in fact it's just as complex as any other legal system. It's not just a case of "Okay, the Qur'an says this, so let's do it." There's a whole bunch of other stuff that goes along with it. What you see in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan has a lot of culture mixed in (and in the case of the Taliban, ignorant brutality). There aren't any countries practicing Islamic law because there aren't any truly Islamic states (in the classical sense), IMO.

That being said, would I want to live under sharia? As things stand now, no. Ever? I'm not sure... I've pondered that many times, and I'm still trying to work out the answer.

923 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:36:41pm

re: #915 windsagio

Don't really think so, this is a mountain/molehill kind of thing :P

For some it's obviously a head-in-the-sand kind of thing...enjoy.

924 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:36:41pm

Bottom line for me...

Islam is not a religion of peace, and should not be recognized as such until it undergoes a vast and significant reformation.

Until the majority, rather than the minority, of it's adherents and clerics openly and actively denounce and renounce the practice of "holy murder" for homosexuals simply for being homosexual, the status of women as property not much elevated from cattle, and the prosecution of jihad and submission by the sword, among many other egregious practices commonly accepted as the will of Allah in the muslim world at large, it should not be seen as a faith on equal footing with other faiths. As it stands now, it is not a religion of peace.

And on that note, GWB can kiss my ass for that line of BS.

925 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:38:11pm

re: #924 Slumbering Behemoth

I just don't like how 'religion of peace' has become some kind of backhanded slur for Islam.

Beyond that, I don't feel we should put ourselves in a position of judging whole other faiths, but I get what you're getting at :)

926 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:41:05pm

re: #922 CuriousLurker

Good luck with your deliberations.

927 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:42:57pm

re: #889 Nimed

So, just so we're clear, what you are against is Britain's arbitration laws -- you are against the Jewish Ben Din courts too, right?

Don't play these stupid games with me. Having separate sets of authoritative legal systems in the same country that apply to different demographics of people based on religion, race, or anything of that nature sets up a "separate but equal" legal system. That is what I was getting at.

928 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:42:58pm

re: #913 Bagua

You should read up on Sharia law, it is by no means even remotely comparable to Jewish people in Britain advocate.

The Jewish version has the ability to grant a divorce, or serve as a mediator in a minor dispute.

The Sharia version has rules that enforce moral codes and personal behaviour. For example:

All homosexuals should be stoned to death, says Muslim preacher of hate

He is in London where there are numerous similar examples. You will be hard pressed to find a Rabbi give a press conference or sermon like this.

And in fact, this reflects modern Sharia law as all four schools of Sunni Islam not only outlaw homosexual acts, something they all agree with, they all advocate punishments:

* The Hanafi school does not consider same-sex intercourse to constitute adultery, and therefore leaves punishment up to the judge's discretion. Most early scholars of this school specifically ruled out the death penalty, others allow it for a second offence.

* Imam Shafi'i considers same-sex intercourse as analogous to other zina; thus, a married person found to have done so is punished as an adulterer (by stoning to death), and an unmarried one, as a fornicator, is left to be flogged.

* The Maliki school says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer.

* Within the Ja'fari schools, Sayyid al-Khoi says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer.

Sharia law in the year 2010 really is a vile thing that should be legislated against. Modern Jewish law is really quite benign and has no agenda to impose its will on non-orthodox Jews.

Saudi Arabia
Homosexuality, Sodomy
National

In May 2010, the Saudi government took its drive against homosexuality a step further when it banned the recruitment of gay and lesbian workers, including those from other countries [R1.1].

As at May 2009, there was no codified Penal Law in Saudi-Arabia. Instead, the country applies the strict Islamic Sharia law. According to the interpretation sodomy is criminalized.

For a married man the penalty is death by stoning, while the penalty for an unmarried man is 100 blows of the whip as well as banishment for a year.

For a non-Muslim, who commits sodomy with a Muslim, the penalty is death by stoning.

For conviction of sodomy, it must be proved either by confession of the culprit four times, or "testimony of four trustworthy Muslim men".

Moreover are all sexual relations outside of marriage illegal in Saudi-Arabia according to the Sharia law, including sexual relations between women [R1.2].

929 windsagio  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:43:46pm

Anywyas, I'm off! Remember, don't eat the red ones with the white spots!

930 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:44:57pm

re: #927 Slumbering Behemoth

Don't play these stupid games with me. Having separate sets of authoritative legal systems in the same country that apply to different demographics of people based on religion, race, or anything of that nature sets up a "separate but equal" legal system. That is what I was getting at.


Right, but this is arbitration in civil cases we're talking about. It's voluntary. If you feel the need to put voluntary in quotes because we're talking about Islam here be my guest. I won't blame you.

931 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:46:31pm

re: #920 windsagio

except there really is no (realistic) danger.

You think the separation clause would last 5 minutes under an extreme religiously based fascist government?

932 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:48:08pm

re: #925 windsagio

I just don't like how 'religion of peace' has become some kind of backhanded slur for Islam.

We know, as every third message is you desperately spinning for them.

Religion of Peace is a legitimate snipe as Islam is associated with horrific violence all over the globe, including two active wars and countless terrorist attacks.

No not all of them, but it is rare to see a Muslim of any note condemn the violence and excesses of Islam, and when they do, they tend to need police protection because of the Fatwas.


Beyond that, I don't feel we should put ourselves in a position of judging whole other faiths, but I get what you're getting at :)

Right. You are just OK with all four branches of Sunni Islam not only forbidding homosexuality but actively punishing it. The only real dispute is whether it should be the death penalty or a beating.

Shia Islam of course hangs homosexuals in the streets of Iran. Let's not be judgmental seems to be your position.

Are you this tolerant of offensive prohibitions of homosexuality is some Christian groups and So-Cons? I'm not.

933 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:49:38pm

re: #911 Cato the Elder

You wanna marry me right now?

Serious offer.

If I were inclined to get married again, I just might consider it. Of cpourse, you'd have to convert. ;o)

Hell, grrrl, Grimm's Fairy Tales in the original would be banned as children's literature today. Ain't no Disney World.

True that!

Burton is one of my true heroes.....Oh! How I honor him cannot be told.

Fascinating stuff—now you've made me want to read a biography! Can you recommend a good one?

He was by most accounts an extremely ugly man, but his wife said she never met anyone more beautiful.

Ah, that reminds me of Layla & Majnun. I'll paraphrase (from Rumi):

A king had heard of Majnun and his mad love for Layla. Thinking that she must be very beautiful, he demanded that she be brought to him so he could see for himself what had driven Majnun insane.

When Layla was finally brought before him he was disappointed as she was rather common looking. He told her, "You're nothing special. There are many women far more lovely than you in my kingdom. I really don't see what's so special about you."

And Layla replied, "That is because you don't see me with Majnun's eyes. If you did, then...."

And there, dear Cato, is where my memory fails (though I'm fairly certain it's followed by some exquisite Persian verses).

934 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:51:25pm

re: #925 windsagio

I just don't like how 'religion of peace' has become some kind of backhanded slur for Islam.

To the best of my knowledge, "RoP" was a phrase uttered by GWB in reference to Islam. It is a backhanded slur earned by the majority of the medieval minded practitioners who demonstrably dominate Islam world wide.

Beyond that, I don't feel we should put ourselves in a position of judging whole other faiths, but I get what you're getting at :)

I am not judging faith, I am judging the heinous, accepted practices (by the majority of adherents world wide) of an organized religion which exerts it's dominance over people in a way that is rightfully considered illegal and muntedly backwards by advanced civilizations.

I have absolutely no qualms nor quarrels with peacefully faithful muslims who reject the violent and oppressive practices the majority of it's adherents embrace.

935 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:52:15pm

re: #933 CuriousLurker

If I were inclined to get married again, I just might consider it. Of cpourse, you'd have to convert. ;o)

Heh. Cato the Caliph.

936 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:52:27pm

re: #928 Gus 802

For a non-Muslim, who commits sodomy with a Muslim, the penalty is death by stoning.

Yes, the Saudi Theocracy, the head of Sunni Islam and the protector of it key mosques and laws. Not a very happy place for gays and women it appears.

Adult Muslims pray facing Saudi Arabia five times a day and a visit there to worship is considered a religious obligation for Muslim males.

Iran, the Shia theocracy and head of Shia Islam, well they are a bit more harsh hanging even Muslim homosexuals in the streets.

Let's not be judgemental here.

937 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:54:35pm

re: #930 JasonA

You or I can voluntarily agree to whatever arbitration method we desire, that's fine. I am talking about Sharia law, where gays are slow-hung just for being gay, and rape victims are stoned to death simply for being raped.

There is a difference.

938 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:55:36pm

re: #929 windsagio

Anywyas, I'm off! Remember, don't eat the red ones with the white spots!

Right, as soon as you are on the spot you flee, but the rest of the time it is a flurry of contrary posts. Lol.

939 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:56:28pm

re: #935 JasonA

Heh. Cato the Caliph.

LOL!! Okay, now I'm trying to picture him sitting on a bunch of cushions smoking a hookah and munching on grapes & pistachios as he issues fatwas about everyone getting along and the correct use of grammar.

940 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:56:38pm

re: #936 Bagua

Yes, the Saudi Theocracy, the head of Sunni Islam and the protector of it key mosques and laws. Not a very happy place for gays and women it appears.

Adult Muslims pray facing Saudi Arabia five times a day and a visit there to worship is considered a religious obligation for Muslim males.

Iran, the Shia theocracy and head of Shia Islam, well they are a bit more harsh hanging even Muslim homosexuals in the streets.

Let's not be judgemental here.

It's a common double standard that's practiced within the left. An Imam with a following of millions will calls for the death of homosexuals and it is followed by silence. A southern Baptist Preacher with a following of 500 calls for the death of homosexual and it become front page news. There is a lack of moral consistency.

941 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:57:16pm

re: #939 CuriousLurker

LOL!! Okay, now I'm trying to picture him sitting on a bunch of cushions smoking a hookah and munching on grapes & pistachios as he issues fatwas about everyone getting along and the correct use of grammar.


There, infidel, not their!

942 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:59:05pm

re: #912 freetoken

I'd say that there is little difference between fascism and sharia law. In some cases, though it makes me ill to say, fascism has been much kinder.

I still concur with your overall point, though, that fascism is currently a greater danger here in the states than sharia law.

943 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 10:59:08pm

re: #940 Gus 802

It's a common double standard that's practiced within the left. An Imam with a following of millions will calls for the death of homosexuals and it is followed by silence. A southern Baptist Preacher with a following of 500 calls for the death of homosexual and it become front page news. There is a lack of moral consistency.

Hell... a preacher comes out against gay marriage and there's more of an outcry than with the Imam.

944 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:01:02pm

Okay, it's late and I want to go watch the last two episodes of season one of The Wire, so I'm outta here.

Have a good night, everyone.

945 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:03:53pm

re: #937 Slumbering Behemoth

You or I can voluntarily agree to whatever arbitration method we desire, that's fine. I am talking about Sharia law, where gays are slow-hung just for being gay, and rape victims are stoned to death simply for being raped.

There is a difference.

Ecch. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. I'm sticking up for the law, not for Sharia Law, but I still feel unclean.

946 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:04:37pm

re: #940 Gus 802

It's a common double standard that's practiced within the left. An Imam with a following of millions will calls for the death of homosexuals and it is followed by silence. A southern Baptist Preacher with a following of 500 calls for the death of homosexual and it become front page news. There is a lack of moral consistency.

The gap is glaring and monstrous. Large enough to swallow stars.

947 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:04:40pm

re: #940 Gus 802

It's a common double standard that's practiced within the left. An Imam with a following of millions will calls for the death of homosexuals and it is followed by silence. A southern Baptist Preacher with a following of 500 calls for the death of homosexual and it become front page news. There is a lack of moral consistency.

I could understand if they were blase about both. But to be a passionate defender of the greater evil and a passionate denouncer of the lesser evil reeks of hypocrisy.

How is this possible?

948 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:06:34pm

re: #945 JasonA

Ecch. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. I'm sticking up for the law, not for Sharia Law, but I still feel unclean.

Just for the record as I don't know, do you stick up for Christian So-Cons who look to pass laws restricting things like gay marriage? They are laws as well.

949 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:07:44pm

re: #947 Bagua

I could understand if they were blase about both. But to be a passionate defender of the greater evil and a passionate denouncer of the lesser evil reeks of hypocrisy.

How is this possible?

Could be an "Underdog Effect"? That is they always defer towards the side of the perceived underdog. They see Shaira as an anthroplogist would while the see the Preacher as their father.

950 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:09:04pm

re: #945 JasonA

Ecch. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. I'm sticking up for the law, not for Sharia Law, but I still feel unclean.

Then I think we are on the same page, yet running in different circles.

And do not get me wrong. I want all people to be free of Wahhabism and Sharia law, including observant muslims. It is a disgusting and backwards way of oppressing people with religion, and as it is practiced it ranks on the lowest rung of world wide religions.

951 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:10:05pm

re: #933 CuriousLurker

If I were inclined to get married again, I just might consider it. Of course, you'd have to convert.

The only conversion required in Marriage is that of one Heart to the Other. Here is a portrait of Burton's wife. They disagreed on nearly everything but Love.

Fascinating stuff—now you've made me want to read a biography! Can you recommend a good one?

The best biography of him I've ever read (and I am something of a Burton scholar) is called "The Devil Drives" by Fawn Brodie. There are others, of course.

The scar he received in battle was from an enemy spear that went in one side of his face and out the other. It knocked out his back teeth on both sides, split his palate, and nearly choked him on his own blood. He continued the fight, with the long spear through his face, point, haft, and all, and led his men until the foe was defeated. Only then did he stop and get medical aid.

Das ist ein Mann nach meinem Herzen!

952 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:11:04pm

re: #947 Bagua

Confirmation bias, I would guess. Perhaps with a tiny side of bigotry thrown in.

953 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:11:58pm

re: #947 Bagua

I could understand if they were blase about both. But to be a passionate defender of the greater evil and a passionate denouncer of the lesser evil reeks of hypocrisy.

How is this possible?

Or perhaps a lack of empathy. How's that for irony. But if you think about it they average white male American leftist may not be capable of empathizing with the plight of gay Arabs. So for them, their greater hatred of the Preacher is based on parochialism. So even for the so called "worldly" leftist they still see Sharia as largely foreign and disregard it.

954 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:12:47pm

re: #948 Bagua

Just for the record as I don't know, do you stick up for Christian So-Cons who look to pass laws restricting things like gay marriage? They are laws as well.

Come on man, that has nothing to do with anything we've been talking about. Solving this isn't as cut-and-dried as saying "ban Sharia Law." This is an issue of civil arbitration. They're making use of a mechanism that's been in place for over a hundred years. Of course, if you're such a British legal expert you should probably go over there and offer to fix it for them.

955 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:14:20pm

re: #927 Slumbering Behemoth

Don't play these stupid games with me. Having separate sets of authoritative legal systems in the same country that apply to different demographics of people based on religion, race, or anything of that nature sets up a "separate but equal" legal system. That is what I was getting at.

Huh? You need to take a deep breath -- I'm not particularly interested in what you're getting at, since you're obviously wrong. As has been pointed out again and again in this thread, in an arbitration court both parties must consent to be judged. What is profoundly stupid is your "separate but equal" comparison, since segregation laws obviously didn't require consent of the segregated.

On, and another idiotic argument is to keep citing Sharia laws that are plainly incompatible with Britain's legal system, such as stoning punishment for homosexuals. The truth is you don't have a leg to stand on here, and that's why your arguments, well, suck. As long as rulings are compatible to a countries law, it's silly to be against arbitration for a specific religion and not others. Period.

956 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:16:28pm

re: #953 Gus 802

Or perhaps a lack of empathy. How's that for irony. But if you think about it they average white male American leftist may not be capable of empathizing with the plight of gay Arabs. So for them, their greater hatred of the Preacher is based on parochialism. So even for the so called "worldly" leftist they still see Sharia as largely foreign and disregard it.

Here in NYC, the gay men I know all have more energy to protest the plight of their friends in CA who want to get married than for the Iranians hung in the street.

957 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:17:17pm

Here's an example from Amnesty International:

Join us this month as we shine a light on LGBT cases around the world and further the cause of equality and human rights for all. Take action right now:

1. Encourage the president of Mexico to extend the right to marry to all Mexican residents
2. Call on the Iraqi government to investigate the murders of Iraqi gay men
3. Take more actions to protect human rights during Pride Month

That's it. They just mention Mexico, Iraq and end with a generalized plea. No mention of Uganda, Malawi, Saudi Arabia, etc.

958 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:18:13pm

re: #955 Nimed

As long as rulings are compatible to a countries law, it's silly to be against arbitration for a specific religion and not others.

That is the only part of your comment I agree with. And only just barely. The point is that religious laws are incompatible with modern society, regardless of which religion it comes from.

The rest of your comment is crap.

959 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:18:30pm

re: #953 Gus 802

Or perhaps a lack of empathy. How's that for irony. But if you think about it they average white male American leftist may not be capable of empathizing with the plight of gay Arabs. So for them, their greater hatred of the Preacher is based on parochialism. So even for the so called "worldly" leftist they still see Sharia as largely foreign and disregard it.

Interesting, I think you are on to something there. Whereas they will hiss and spit with the rest of us if such malodorous social morality codes were advocated as law in the US, as long as the person advocating it was a white Christian. Let it be a non-white, Muslim, or any sort of minority nutter and it's no big deal to them. Just part of their culture. In fact they will furiously oppose any criticism as "bigotry" or "racism."

960 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:18:53pm

re: #950 Slumbering Behemoth

Then I think we are on the same page, yet running in different circles.

And do not get me wrong. I want all people to be free of Wahhabism and Sharia law, including observant muslims. It is a disgusting and backwards way of oppressing people with religion, and as it is practiced it ranks on the lowest rung of world wide religions.

You know I'm not for Sharia Law being enforced on anyone, right? Bag? You know that too, right? This is about their choice (as it were) to bind themselves to the rulings of their religious community. And quite frankly I wouldn't shed a tear if that choice were taken away, but as the law stands it is available to them. If there's a proposal in Britain to end religious arbitration I'm down with it.

961 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:22:07pm

re: #957 Gus 802

Many of my friends on the left think Danny Glover not being able to hail a cab is cause for a protest march but I hear crickets on Darfur.

They think the glass ceiling in corporate America is an abomination but on genital mutilation and honor killings? Nothing.

They're besides themselves over Prop 8 but all I hear is silence regarding the hanging of Iranian gays.

Maybe I'm just hanging out with the wrong lefties.

962 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:22:18pm

re: #958 Slumbering Behemoth

That is the only part of your comment I agree with. And only just barely. The point is that religious laws are incompatible with modern society, regardless of which religion it comes from.

The rest of your comment is crap.

LOL. Your "separate but equal" equivalence between arbitration laws and segregation laws was the most disgusting part of your comments, but I completely understand you want to avoid the issue.

963 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:24:58pm

re: #960 JasonA

You know I'm not for Sharia Law being enforced on anyone, right? Bag? You know that too, right? This is about their choice (as it were) to bind themselves to the rulings of their religious community. And quite frankly I wouldn't shed a tear if that choice were taken away, but as the law stands it is available to them. If there's a proposal in Britain to end religious arbitration I'm down with it.

Some people just don't understand that the concept of freedom of religion, like freedom of speech, exist precisely to protect things we are uncomfortable with/find repugnant.

964 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:25:55pm

re: #959 Bagua

Interesting, I think you are on to something there. Whereas they will hiss and spit with the rest of us if such malodorous social morality codes were advocated as law in the US, as long as the person advocating it was a white Christian. Let it be a non-white, Muslim, or any sort of minority nutter and it's no big deal to them. Just part of their culture. In fact they will furiously oppose any criticism as "bigotry" or "racism."

Happens all the time. When the left sees homophobia coming from within the black community it is disregarded or minimized as being "part of their culture." Because of that it is sometimes defended.

965 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:27:52pm

re: #953 Gus 802

"What those filthy poor, pathetic deprived, brown ethnic people over there do is irrelevant to my own selfish needs their business. It's more important for us to focus on my daddy issues the violations of trust and power here in our culture".

966 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:28:39pm

re: #951 Cato the Elder

The best biography of him I've ever read (and I am something of a Burton scholar) is called "The Devil Drives" by Fawn Brodie. There are others, of course.

The scar he received in battle was from an enemy spear that went in one side of his face and out the other. It knocked out his back teeth on both sides, split his palate, and nearly choked him on his own blood. He continued the fight, with the long spear through his face, point, haft, and all, and led his men until the foe was defeated. Only then did he stop and get medical aid.

Okay, I had to come back and thank you—for the wonderful Burton stories, for the portrait of his beautiful wife, for being so gallant, and for continuing to believe in the power of love. It's always nice to find an island of erudite sanity as the world seems to be spinning out of control.

I hope that didn't trigger anyone's gag reflex. Or maybe I hope it did. *Cheshire cat grin*

Now I'm off to order that book and watch my DVD.

967 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:28:56pm

re: #964 Gus 802

Happens all the time. When the left sees homophobia coming from within the black community it is disregarded or minimized as being "part of their culture." Because of that it is sometimes defended.

Prop 8 is a perfect example.

Many Black and Latino churches came out against it but who got the firestorm? The Mormons.

968 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:29:06pm

re: #965 Slumbering Behemoth

"What those filthy poor, pathetic deprived, brown ethnic people over there do is irrelevant to my own selfish needs their business. It's more important for us to focus on my daddy issues the violations of trust and power here in our culture".

Or if the Pope says something.

969 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:29:20pm

re: #954 JasonA

Come on man, that has nothing to do with anything we've been talking about. Solving this isn't as cut-and-dried as saying "ban Sharia Law." This is an issue of civil arbitration. They're making use of a mechanism that's been in place for over a hundred years. Of course, if you're such a British legal expert you should probably go over there and offer to fix it for them.

I am familiar with aspects of British law, but I am not a barrister. I am also well informed about the conduct of Islamists in Britain and I make my opinions known there as well. I assure you the Islamists do not promote Sharia law as merely "an issue of civil arbitration." They promote it as a means of imposing their moral code on secular Muslims, women and gays.

The people of greatest threat from this are not the non-Muslims, they are the Muslims who wish to live free of this primitive social order. It has nothing to do with prayer and everything to do with enforcing moral codes.

970 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:31:30pm

re: #967 alexknyc

Prop 8 is a perfect example.

Many Black and Latino churches came out against it but who got the firestorm? The Mormons.

Yep. California. Passed Prop. 8 and voted for Obama. Obama doesn't even support gay marriage.

971 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:31:38pm

re: #959 Bagua

Interesting, I think you are on to something there. Whereas they will hiss and spit with the rest of us if such malodorous social morality codes were advocated as law in the US

I emphasized the important part for me there, which calls back to Gus' comment on moral consistency.

In fact they will furiously oppose any criticism as "bigotry" or "racism."

And in doing so, happily display their own.

972 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:32:45pm

re: #971 Slumbering Behemoth

Spot on.

973 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:33:04pm

re: #970 Gus 802

Yep. California. Passed Prop. 8 and voted for Obama. Obama doesn't even support gay marriage.

I think if it weren't a political handgrenade, he would.

974 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:34:52pm

Girl From the North Country

MP3 Audio

- Dylan/Cash
975 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:36:30pm

re: #963 Nimed

Some people just don't understand that the concept of freedom of religion, like freedom of speech, exist precisely to protect things we are uncomfortable with/find repugnant.

You're traveling into the land of the blind now. What is being discussed is not the freedom of religion, which incidentally is not granted in Islamic theocracies, but the often murderous religious oppression wielded in countries under Sharia law.

Do try to get it right.

976 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:36:57pm

re: #973 alexknyc

I think if it weren't a political handgrenade, he would.

Maybe so. However, it is rather big bone of contention for a part of his base.

977 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:37:49pm

re: #968 Gus 802

Not a fan of that "authority" either, I must say.

978 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:38:20pm

Oh, this is rich.

Don't demonise sharia courts


Inayat Bunglawala
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 30 June 2009 14.30 BST
Article history
A lady reporter from the Daily Mail rang me yesterday afternoon to ask about my thoughts regarding a new report on shariah "courts" that operate in the UK

Check out the name. :)

979 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:38:56pm

re: #977 Slumbering Behemoth

Not a fan of that "authority" either, I must say.

Neither am I. However, it seems so cliche to "pick on the Pope."

980 The Left  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:39:24pm

re: #668 MandyManners

Where are your Prog buddies, IceWeasle and her hubby, Jimmah?

Huh?

re: #690 MandyManners

I think that my point is rather clear.

It sure is, hater. :-)

Youtube Video

lol@u.

981 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:39:40pm

re: #953 Gus 802

Or perhaps a lack of empathy. How's that for irony. But if you think about it they average white male American leftist may not be capable of empathizing with the plight of gay Arabs. So for them, their greater hatred of the Preacher is based on parochialism. So even for the so called "worldly" leftist they still see Sharia as largely foreign and disregard it.

Gus, you've been generalizing quite a lot with regard to "the left" and "lefties" lately. There is, of course, some truth to the fact that people, including lefties, are more bothered by discrimination closer to home, even if it is less grave than in other countries. But besides this one can (and should) denounce the horrible practices you just described in other countries, but we recognize that said countries, including repulsive theocratic regimes, are sovereign. So there's only so much you can do to change things -- you can impose trade embargoes or you can invade them. That's pretty much it. Understandably, people tend to focus their energies where change is more likely to occur, in your own country.

982 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:40:12pm

re: #979 Gus 802

Cliche perhaps, but certainly appropriate when the occasion merits it.

983 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:40:20pm

re: #963 Nimed

Some people just don't understand that the concept of freedom of religion, like freedom of speech, exist precisely to protect things we are uncomfortable with/find repugnant.

Nothing to do with religious freedom my friend, everything to do with religious coercion. I support religious freedom, I condemn religious coercion.

984 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:41:10pm

re: #981 Nimed

Gus, you've been generalizing quite a lot with regard to "the left" and "lefties" lately. There is, of course, some truth to the fact that people, including lefties, are more bothered by discrimination closer to home, even if it is less grave than in other countries. But besides this one can (and should) denounce the horrible practices you just described in other countries, but we recognize that said countries, including repulsive theocratic regimes, are sovereign. So there's only so much you can do to change things -- you can impose trade embargoes or you can invade them. That's pretty much it. Understandably, people tend to focus their energies where change is more likely to occur, in your own country.

When I say left I mean, well, the left. I don't mean progressives or liberals. I think we can generalize just as much as we generalize with the right. No?

985 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:46:09pm

re: #975 Slumbering Behemoth

You're traveling into the land of the blind now. What is being discussed is not the freedom of religion, which incidentally is not granted in Islamic theocracies, but the often murderous religious oppression wielded in countries under Sharia law.

Do try to get it right.

LOL. Nice try. You were referring to Britain when you used your idiotic
separate but equal" comparison. You really shouldn't try to weasel out of comments that are on record in this very thread.

re: #823 Slumbering Behemoth

Perhaps, but there has been talk of Sharia courts operating with authority along side British courts in England. It's a hideous separate but equal thing in my mind.

986 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:46:49pm

re: #981 Nimed

Gus, you've been generalizing quite a lot with regard to "the left" and "lefties" lately. There is, of course, some truth to the fact that people, including lefties, are more bothered by discrimination closer to home, even if it is less grave than in other countries. But besides this one can (and should) denounce the horrible practices you just described in other countries, but we recognize that said countries, including repulsive theocratic regimes, are sovereign. So there's only so much you can do to change things -- you can impose trade embargoes or you can invade them. That's pretty much it. Understandably, people tend to focus their energies where change is more likely to occur, in your own country.

You are correct in most cases but the left doesn't seem to have much trouble organizing a protest of Israeli policies.

987 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:47:18pm

"Lets stop talking about the common practice of Islam murdering gays, rape victims, mutilating the genitalia of children, treating women like less than cattle, and so on. Lets get back to talking about Catholic priests buggering boys".

Pffft. A pox upon both houses.

988 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:47:33pm

Madrid gay pride march bans Israelis over Gaza flotilla raids

Organisers say it would be 'barbaric' to allow group to take part, but Israelis say Islamists would try and 'cure' them all...

Among other things, Tel Aviv had planned to take the Spanish organisers of the march to Gaza so they could witness a place "that is controlled by the fundamentalists of Hamas, who do not respect any human rights and believe that homosexuals should be killed," Schwartz said.

"We invited the organisers of the gay pride event in Madrid to join a march this Friday in Tel Aviv, the only place in the Middle East where you can be gay in public," he said.

"They would be able to talk to Arab gays who travel here secretly because they would be murdered at home if they revealed their sexuality."

Kind of old news by now but worth repeating.

989 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:48:26pm

re: #984 Gus 802

When I say left I mean, well, the left. I don't mean progressives or liberals. I think we can generalize just as much as we generalize with the right. No?

Well, progressives and liberals are on the left side of the political spectrum, are they not?

990 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:51:07pm

re: #989 Nimed

Well, progressives and liberals are on the left side of the political spectrum, are they not?

Sure, I suppose so but so am I -- I lean left and I'm probably the biggest social liberal at LGF.

So we can't criticize the left? They're far from perfect. What am I supposed to call them then? Aren't we calling Teabaggers "the right"?

991 Bagua  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:52:36pm

re: #981 Nimed

Gus, you've been generalizing quite a lot with regard to "the left" and "lefties" lately. There is, of course, some truth to the fact that people, including lefties, are more bothered by discrimination closer to home, even if it is less grave than in other countries. But besides this one can (and should) denounce the horrible practices you just described in other countries, but we recognize that said countries, including repulsive theocratic regimes, are sovereign. So there's only so much you can do to change things -- you can impose trade embargoes or you can invade them. That's pretty much it. Understandably, people tend to focus their energies where change is more likely to occur, in your own country.

That is all we are asking for, that and to protect against the extension of those behaviours to Western nations such as the US and European nations. But you see, it is almost impossible to get this denunciation from certain posters, any mention of the horrors associated with the two major Muslim theocracies or Sharia law gets lost in the sort of spin and cover we have seen tonight on this thread.

992 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:54:14pm

re: #967 alexknyc

Prop 8 is a perfect example.

Many Black and Latino churches came out against it but who got the firestorm? The Mormons.

The Black and Latino churches didn't pour money in from out of state to defeat it, though. That is what has hardened my heart against the Mormon Church in a way that I doubt will ever be softened.

There's plenty of social conservatism of various stripes on the 'left'. One more reason why 'left' and 'right' don't mean that much.

For a long, long time, the only people talking about the human rights abuses in the middle east were on the 'left'. It only became an issue for the 'right' after 9/11, for example. These things can shift in a very short period of time.

993 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:55:56pm

re: #992 Obdicut

The Black and Latino churches didn't pour money in from out of state to defeat it, though.

That's true. They just brought busloads of their parishoners to the polls to do the actual voting.

994 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:57:05pm

Huh. Seems Americans can submit to Sharia Law.
On September 25, 2002, all five parties signed an "Arbitration Agreement." This document recites, in full, that the parties:
after consultation with their respective attorneys, agree to submit all claims and disputes among them to arbitration by the TEXAS ISLAMIC COURT, 888 s. Greenville Ave., suite 188, Richardson, Texas, as follows:
...

We reverse the trial court's orders denying Appellants' motions to stay litigation and to compel arbitration in these two consolidated cases. We render judgment that the Arbitration Agreement signed by the parties is valid and enforceable and covers all disputes between the parties that arose prior to the date the parties signed the Arbitration Agreement, including all matters that were the subject of the partial summary judgment previously granted by the trial court.
995 Nimed  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:58:07pm

re: #990 Gus 802

Sure, I suppose so but so am I -- I lean left and I'm probably the biggest social liberal at LGF.

So we can't criticize the left? They're far from perfect. What am I supposed to call them then? Aren't we calling Teabaggers "the right"?

Good point. I think "the left" lumps together too much people of different political persuasions to be useful as a term (but yeah, you may not, word police and all that). I do try to avoid referring to "the right" when criticizing teabaggers, the GOP, Ron Paul, etc.

996 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:58:38pm

re: #985 Nimed

Wrong. And I am not weaseling out of anything. Any system that legitimately allows for separate legal systems to rule over separate "classes" is a system that is "separate but equal". Maybe even "separate, but some are more equal than others". Allowing for Sharia law, or any other religious law in a secular society, fits that bill.

How you can possibly and continuously trip on a dick so short as yours is entirely inconceivable to me.

/Okay that last sentence was totally unnecessary, gratuitous, insulting, and mostly for comedic effect. I actually have no idea how long your legs are. I won't blame you nor anyone else for down-dinging this post.

997 Gus  Wed, Jun 9, 2010 11:59:38pm

re: #995 Nimed

Good point. I think "the left" lumps together too much people of different political persuasions to be useful as a term (but yeah, you may not, word police and all that). I do try to avoid referring to "the right" when criticizing teabaggers, the GOP, Ron Paul, etc.

Yeah, I know. I've gotten in trouble for saying "the right" before. I don't know. Maybe it's better to say far-left and/or far-right. Both are equally distasteful.

998 alexknyc  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:01:18am

re: #992 Obdicut

That is what has hardened my heart against the Mormon Church in a way that I doubt will ever be softened.

What bothers me is the people will condemn Christian churches for adhering to their beliefs (no gay marriage) but not only won't condemn Islamic law for theirs (death to gays), they'll actually defend the presence of Islamic courts in a free society.

I don't get it.

999 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:01:29am

re: #990 Gus 802

Sure, I suppose so but so am I -- I lean left and I'm probably the biggest social liberal at LGF.


What? Daggers at dawn, sir! //


So we can't criticize the left? They're far from perfect. What am I supposed to call them then? Aren't we calling Teabaggers "the right"?

As an aside, some liberals and progressives nickname some other (furtherleft) progressives 'firebaggers'-- the people who wanted to tank HCR because it didn't have a public option. (Fire= FireDogLake).

Just adding it to the lexicon here...

1000 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:03:02am

re: #993 alexknyc

That's true. They just brought busloads of their parishoners to the polls to do the actual voting.

Sure. Busloads of their parishoners who live in the state. It was crappy of them and black culture is rife with a lot of sexism, racism, conspiracy theories, etc. Doesn't erase that they Mormon church mounted an organized effort from Utah to affect politics in California. That sucked.

and...

re: #987 Slumbering Behemoth

I haven't noticed US Muslims doing that, though.

I can condemn Islam in the middle East, I can condemn Totalitarian Communist China, I can condemn caste-bound India (where honor killings are rife as well), I can condemn the fascism rising in Eastern Europe, and I can condemn the complete fucked-up-edness of criminal Russia. I can condemn the systemic racism in Japan, the race-based nuttiness in Brazil, the racism in Argentina, the shabby treatment of the Aborigines in Australia.

But I don't really have any influence in those places. The only place I can really affect anything is here in the United States. And we're not anywhere, at all, in any way, close to Sharia law. Even if there are independent arbitrators set up, they have to follow US law. It's a non-issue. I don't get why it's even a discussion. We have actual laws being passed against abortion that are clearly inspired by very conservative Christianity; that is an actual, real problem that's occurring.

1001 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:04:40am

re: #998 alexknyc

See above.

1002 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:05:05am

re: #999 iceweasel

As an aside, some liberals and progressives nickname some other (furtherleft) progressives 'firebaggers'-- the people who wanted to tank HCR because it didn't have a public option. (Fire= FireDogLake).

Just adding it to the lexicon here...

Firebaggers! Never heard of that one. I like it.

I've heard Jane Hamsher talk before. On a personal level I find her kind of annoying and she seems rather convinced about her ideas. No room for compromise. That being said she's not far-left and will never see her writing at Counter-Punch.

1003 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:08:28am

re: #999 iceweasel

As an aside, some liberals and progressives nickname some other (furtherleft) progressives 'firebaggers'-- the people who wanted to tank HCR because it didn't have a public option. (Fire= FireDogLake).

Just adding it to the lexicon here...

Ice!

Good morning!

1004 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:08:32am

re: #1002 Gus 802

Firebaggers! Never heard of that one. I like it.

I've heard Jane Hamsher talk before. On a personal level I find her kind of annoying and she seems rather convinced about her ideas. No room for compromise. That being said she's not far-left and will never see her writing at Counter-Punch.

well,she's definitely passionate and convinced. I don't think I've ever actually seen her or heard her speak--just know some things from reading FDL.

I think balloon-juice may have originated the firebagging name. Anyway, FDL was the source of loads of opposition to HCR. Basically, the people yelling at Pelosi today-- firebaggers.

1005 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:09:05am

re: #1003 Cato the Elder

Ice!

Good morning!

Hey cutie!!!! What's up?? Jimmah says hi and so do I. ;)

1006 Bagua  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:10:36am

re: #1000 Obdicut

It's a non-issue. I don't get why it's even a discussion. We have actual laws being passed against abortion that are clearly inspired by very conservative Christianity; that is an actual, real problem that's occurring.

Utterly confused as to why we would be discussing Islamists on a thread about an Islamist. Nothing to see here folks. More along. Now those Christians are the real problem.

Lol.

1007 Bagua  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:11:39am

re: #1003 Cato the Elder

See my #974 above.

Good night all.

1008 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:14:04am

re: #1006 Bagua

Utterly confused as to why we would be discussing Islamists on a thread about an Islamist. Nothing to see here folks. More along. Now those Christians are the real problem.

Lol.

No, not why we're discussing Islamists. Islamists are a very real threat to Israel, they're a very real threat to American servicemen and women. They're a very real threat to nations such as Chechnya.

Sharia law is not a very real threat to the United States, at all.

But we have actual laws that are being passed that are inspired by highly conservative Christianity. That is actually happening. It's real.

So yes, the things that are actually happening, the laws that are actually being passed in this country, are more of a threat than hypothetical Sharia laws that are not in any danger of being passed here in the US. Though the Islamists would be in favor of many of the laws that we are passing.

1009 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:14:57am

re: #1005 iceweasel

Hey cutie!!! What's up?? Jimmah says hi and so do I. ;)

Dudette, Mandy mentioned you upthread. I told her to do that thing with the rope.

1010 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:15:05am

re: #1004 iceweasel

well,she's definitely passionate and convinced. I don't think I've ever actually seen her or heard her speak--just know some things from reading FDL.

I think balloon-juice may have originated the firebagging name. Anyway, FDL was the source of loads of opposition to HCR. Basically, the people yelling at Pelosi today-- firebaggers.

Passionate and convinced is one way to describe it. I've seen her on Bloggingheads TV a few times and once on CNN (online). My favorite liberal from Bloggingheads TV is Bill Scher (who I mentioned before) who frequently does a segment with conservative Matt Lewis. The two really hit it off well with their opposing opinions. Scher runs Liberal Oasis and Lewis runs Politics Daily.

1011 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:15:21am

re: #1000 Obdicut

I haven't noticed US Muslims doing that, though.

Nor have I, really. That post was meant to poke fun at those in the U.S. who willfully ignore the evils of Sharia law while screaming loudly at the evils of the Vatican. Nothing more. And as I stated in that post, a pox upon both houses.


I can condemn Islam in the middle East, I can condemn Totalitarian Communist China, I can condemn caste-bound India (where honor killings are rife as well), I can condemn the fascism rising in Eastern Europe, and I can condemn the complete fucked-up-edness of criminal Russia. I can condemn the systemic racism in Japan, the race-based nuttiness in Brazil, the racism in Argentina, the shabby treatment of the Aborigines in Australia.

But I don't really have any influence in those places. The only place I can really affect anything is here in the United States

.

Nor do I, but it costs absolutely nothing to call out evil as evil.

And we're not anywhere, at all, in any way, close to Sharia law. Even if there are independent arbitrators set up, they have to follow US law. It's a non-issue.

Which is a point I made on this thread when I said we need now laws banning Sharia or Leviticus Law, as both would be obviously and demonstrably illegal under our current laws.

I don't get why it's even a discussion. We have actual laws being passed against abortion that are clearly inspired by very conservative Christianity; that is an actual, real problem that's occurring.

I concur. I do believe that I have been consistent in my stance here that religious law has no place in modern, secular societies.

1012 Nimed  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:17:17am

re: #996 Slumbering Behemoth

Wrong. And I am not weaseling out of anything. Any system that legitimately allows for separate legal systems to rule over separate "classes" is a system that is "separate but equal". Maybe even "separate, but some are more equal than others". Allowing for Sharia law, or any other religious law in a secular society, fits that bill.

This is fun. Your arguments are getting increasingly stupid with each post. Now you're casting aside the historical meaning of "separate but equal" (a NON-VOLUNTARY system of segregation) to make up your own definition. Hey, n***er for me is just a word for a particularly strong variety of coffee.

How you can possibly and continuously trip on a dick so short as yours is entirely inconceivable to me.

I realize everything is relative, and my dick couldn't possibly compare to the sheer quantity of bullshit that has come out of your mouth tonight and that presumably had to get in at some point. I really don't want to know the details.

/Okay that last sentence was totally unnecessary, gratuitous, insulting, and mostly for comedic effect. I actually have no idea how long your legs are. I won't blame you nor anyone else for down-dinging this post.

LOL This is just Pathetic. If you're going down that road, at least don't be a weenie about it.

1013 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:18:06am

re: #1011 Slumbering Behemoth

when I said we need now no laws

*sigh*

PIMF

1014 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:18:22am

re: #967 alexknyc

Prop 8 is a perfect example.

Many Black and Latino churches came out against it but who got the firestorm? The Mormons.

There were very good reasons for the Mormons to get a firestorm over their prop 8 opposition-- it's because of the extent to which they mounted an organised opposition and then covered it up during and after.

Check out the Prop 8 trial blog. The Mormons absolutely earned an asskicking on this. I suggest you read the transcripts.

1015 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:18:44am

re: #1011 Slumbering Behemoth

Nor have I, really. That post was meant to poke fun at those in the U.S. who willfully ignore the evils of Sharia law while screaming loudly at the evils of the Vatican. Nothing more. And as I stated in that post, a pox upon both houses.

Okay. Boo to those people. No sure why that's at all important, though.


Nor do I, but it costs absolutely nothing to call out evil as evil.

Then boo to all those places, too.


Which is a point I made on this thread when I said we need now laws banning Sharia or Leviticus Law, as both would be obviously and demonstrably illegal under our current laws.

We already have that. It's the first amendment. We don't need new laws for it. Just to respect that.

I concur. I do believe that I have been consistent in my stance here that religious law has no place in modern, secular societies.

But between Sharia and Christian Dominionists types, only one group has power in the US, so I'm only concerned about one group in reference to US domestic politics.

1016 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:21:12am

re: #1009 Cato the Elder

Dudette, Mandy mentioned you upthread. I told her to do that thing with the rope.

I believe I already dinged you for that :)

Let's face it, one of Mandy's problems with me is that she hasn't been dinged in a while.

Youtube Video
1017 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:21:23am

re: #1012 Nimed

Fine. Explain to me how separate legal systems for various religious and secular demographics do not set up a "separate but equal" judicial system.

1018 Nimed  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:23:44am

re: #1015 Obdicut

But between Sharia and Christian Dominionists types, only one group has power in the US, so I'm only concerned about one group in reference to US domestic politics.

You see, some people prefer to vehemently denounce things they can't possibly influence. Waaay more comfortable.

1019 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:24:27am

re: #1016 iceweasel

I believe I already dinged you for that :)

Let's face it, one of Mandy's problems with me is that she hasn't been dinged in a while.


[Video]

Good vid

I knew you were a girl, but I didn't know Jimmah was a pussy too!

wait , WHAT !?!?!?
//

1020 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:25:37am

re: #1018 Nimed

You see, some people prefer to vehemently denounce things they can't possibly influence. Waaay more comfortable.

Also, some people feel that unless you use the right magic words, you haven't 'denounced' something enough. Also, the sheer act of denouncing something appears to have magikal powers such that it will terrify our enemies.///

1021 Bagua  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:27:16am

re: #1008 Obdicut

I don't disagree that it is a minor issue in the US, but I don't object to the legislation on the grounds that it is a small evil. From what I understand the Muslim population in the US is one of the best integrated internationally. I believe a big part of the reason is the lack of the sort of cultural pressure communities is the UK experience, though there are many assimilated Muslims in the UK as well. There was a concerted effort to have a multi-cultural society

Goodnight.

1023 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:28:02am

Not the Mormons.

It was Focus on the Family.

1024 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:28:32am

re: #1019 sattv4u2

Good vid

I knew you were a girl, but I didn't know Jimmah was a pussy too!

wait , WHAT !?!?!?
//

Oh, that's just Jimmah and me playing anarchist. In this case he's the one who dresses in black and ties me down to the bed and maces me. /

/joke about zombie being 'maced by anarchists' at the dnc

1025 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:29:01am

re: #1023 Gus 802

Not the Mormons.

It was Focus on the Family.

FOF them!

1026 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:29:09am

re: #1015 Obdicut

Okay. Boo to those people. No sure why that's at all important, though.

'Tis not. As I said, it was for poking fun and nothing more.

We already have that. It's the first amendment. We don't need new laws for it. Just to respect that.

As I have been saying.

But between Sharia and Christian Dominionists types, only one group has power in the US, so I'm only concerned about one group in reference to US domestic politics.

One is actively perusing mass murder in the name of their religion, the other not so much. I despise both nearly equally, but more so the one that drove devotees to fly planes into buildings.

1027 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:29:32am

re: #1025 Cato the Elder

FOF them!

Mother fofers!

1028 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:30:52am

re: #1024 iceweasel

Oh, that's just Jimmah and me playing anarchist. In this case he's the one who dresses in black and ties me down to the bed and maces me. /

/joke about zombie being 'maced by anarchists' at the dnc

Gee,, and here I was wasting all my time, energy and money on flowers, dinners and champagne!

1029 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:37:13am

re: #1028 sattv4u2

Gee,, and here I was wasting all my time, energy and money on flowers, dinners and champagne!

You killed the thread!

1030 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:37:19am

/

1031 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:38:04am

re: #1020 iceweasel

There are no magic words necessary. You either call the practice of a religious culture that mutilates children's vaginas in accordance with what they believe to be divine law to be backwards and disgusting, or you don't.

And I make no implications here against you, I am pretty damn sure you stand against such practices.

1032 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:38:38am

re: #1022 Gus 802

Focus on the Family vastly outpaced Mormon spending on Proposition 8

yeah, they both were in it though.

1033 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:39:12am

re: #1029 Gus 802

You killed the thread!

the way it was going, consider it a mercy killing!

1034 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:40:51am

re: #1032 iceweasel

yeah, they both were in it though.

True enough. But, this country is split 50/50 with gay marriage. I don't think that money played as big a role in the final outcome. We've seen many proposition failing on the side of the bigger spenders many times before. In my opinion the results were based on true public opinion on gay marriage in California.

1035 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:41:43am

re: #1033 sattv4u2

the way it was going, consider it a mercy killing!

Allah Snackbar!

[[BOOM!]]

/

1036 Nimed  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:42:12am

re: #1017 Slumbering Behemoth

Fine. Explain to me how separate legal systems for various religious and secular demographics do not set up a "separate but equal" judicial system.

Arbitration laws by definition use a different set of criteria for conflict resolution than common courts. They require the consent of both parties to be binding, usually have a limited scope, and are not inherently discriminatory. Religious arbitration courts are "discriminatory", but only in the same trivial sense in which you cannot participate in a bunch of Sacraments unless you are of Catholic faith.

1037 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:43:24am

re: #1031 Slumbering Behemoth

There are no magic words necessary.

I'm talking about the people who believe that unless a POTUS uses the majikal words like 'islamofascism' and 'jihad' he can't possibly be fighting a actual war on terror. Also all of those who value rhetoric over action.

This is orthogonal to your discussion, but you must know lots of wingnuts place majikal emphasis on the words the POTUS uses, just like on the symbolic act of wearing a flag pin.

1038 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:43:41am

re: #1016 iceweasel

I believe I already dinged you for that :)

Let's face it, one of Mandy's problems with me is that she hasn't been dinged in a while.

LOL.

Meanwhile, I was makin' gallant Victorian cyber-love to LGF's resident Muslim grrrl, much to the chagrin of people who don't get any in real life.

1039 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:45:17am

re: #1034 Gus 802

Consider also the "Ew, gross" factor of those who can not separate their personal preferences from the rights of others with different, consensual preferences.

1040 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:45:17am

re: #1037 iceweasel

I'm talking about the people who believe that unless a POTUS uses the majikal words like 'islamofascism' and 'jihad' he can't possibly be fighting a actual war on terror. Also all of those who value rhetoric over action.

This is orthogonal to your discussion, but you must know lots of wingnuts place majikal emphasis on the words the POTUS uses, just like on the symbolic act of wearing a flag pin.

Better not let Cato read that.

Hey Cato! Look into my eyes and hear me speak... Islamofascism... Eric Holder... Islamofascism... Eric Holder...

//

1041 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:45:55am

My bad. Damn booze. I should have bought much more.

1042 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:46:29am

re: #1037 iceweasel

a POTUS uses the majikal words like 'islamofascism' and 'jihad'

Or "majikal words" like HOPE and CHANGE he really stands for something!

1043 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:46:57am

re: #1039 Slumbering Behemoth

Consider also the "Ew, gross" factor of those who can not separate their personal preferences from the rights of others with different, consensual preferences.

Heck yeah. You know, I've seen atheists argue against gay marriage. OK, sure it was on Youtube but I've seen plenty of clueless people of all stripes.

1044 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:47:24am

re: #1040 Gus 802

Better not let Cato read that.

Hey Cato! Look into my eyes and hear me speak... Islamofascism... Eric Holder... Islamofascism... Eric Holder...

//

That was sooo not my point.

Fuck Eric Holder up the same hole as Bat Puchanan. Neither one of them has the balls of Helen Thomas.

1045 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:48:07am

re: #1043 Gus 802

Heck yeah. You know, I've seen atheists argue against gay marriage. OK, sure it was on Youtube but I've seen plenty of clueless people of all stripes.


you're watching too many referees in sporting events!
//

1046 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:48:34am

re: #1044 Cato the Elder

That was sooo not my point.

Fuck Eric Holder up the same hole as Bat Puchanan. Neither one of them has the balls of Helen Thomas.

I know. It wasn't meant to be an accurate testimony of your point.

1047 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:49:14am

re: #1034 Gus 802

True enough. But, this country is split 50/50 with gay marriage. I don't think that money played as big a role in the final outcome. We've seen many proposition failing on the side of the bigger spenders many times before. In my opinion the results were based on true public opinion on gay marriage in California.

I'm not convinced the country IS split 50/50 over gay marriage. Most of the folks I've talked to who oppose gay marriage do so because they have the mistaken belief that allowing gay people to get married means that their church will be forced to perform gay marriages or to recognise gay marriage.

They are completely shocked when told this isn't true, and they don't believe me when I point out that the Catholic church likewise doesn't recognise marriages that take place outside of it and can no more be forced to perform a gay marriage than they are currently forced to recognise civil ceremonies or protestant ceremonies.

I think the polling on this is probably wildly inaccurate.

as to CA. I don't know. Lots of conservatives in CA so it's possible it does reflect the electorate's decision-- but remember, this was one of those cases where in order to support gay marriage you had to vote NO on the prop. I honestly think that props that are worded that way get a lot of false positives.

1048 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:52:15am

re: #1047 iceweasel

this was one of those cases where in order to support gay marriage you had to vote NO on the prop.

I HATE the way 'they" word propositions

Many a time is like what you describe, and I'm positive it's deliberate

VOTE NO FOR YES!

The questions should be limited to "Do you want X to occur, yes or no"

1049 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:53:05am

re: #1047 iceweasel

I'm not convinced the country IS split 50/50 over gay marriage. Most of the folks I've talked to who oppose gay marriage do so because they have the mistaken belief that allowing gay people to get married means that their church will be forced to perform gay marriages or to recognise gay marriage.

They are completely shocked when told this isn't true, and they don't believe me when I point out that the Catholic church likewise doesn't recognise marriages that take place outside of it and can no more be forced to perform a gay marriage than they are currently forced to recognise civil ceremonies or protestant ceremonies.

I think the polling on this is probably wildly inaccurate.

as to CA. I don't know. Lots of conservatives in CA so it's possible it does reflect the electorate's decision-- but remember, this was one of those cases where in order to support gay marriage you had to vote NO on the prop. I honestly think that props that are worded that way get a lot of false positives.

Right. I forgot about that. One of those no means yes ballots. Those can really get messed up. I even find them confusing unless I read those several times.

Still haven't heard about the court case though regarding Prop. 8. The good news is that Republican Ted Olson who was Bush's solicitor general is arguing for gay marriage. There is hope.

1050 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:56:10am

re: #1048 sattv4u2

this was one of those cases where in order to support gay marriage you had to vote NO on the prop.

I HATE the way 'they" word propositions

Many a time is like what you describe, and I'm positive it's deliberate

VOTE NO FOR YES!

The questions should be limited to "Do you want X to occur, yes or no"

How about one button?

DOES THIS SUCK?

If you don't hit the button that counts as a no.

1051 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:58:42am

re: #1048 sattv4u2

this was one of those cases where in order to support gay marriage you had to vote NO on the prop.

I HATE the way 'they" word propositions

Many a time is like what you describe, and I'm positive it's deliberate

VOTE NO FOR YES!

The questions should be limited to "Do you want X to occur, yes or no"

You could definitely word even that in such a way as to confuse people, though.

I don't think it's deliberate-- it's just legalistic language which is often confusing.

re: #1049 Gus 802

Right. I forgot about that. One of those no means yes ballots. Those can really get messed up. I even find them confusing unless I read those several times.

Still haven't heard about the court case though regarding Prop. 8. The good news is that Republican Ted Olson who was Bush's solicitor general is arguing for gay marriage. There is hope.

I've had to read some props several times before I understand it. If you're not already really familar with the issue it could be very easy for someone to make a mistake.

Last I heard on prop 8 was that no matter who won it would face further challenges,-- HI banned same sex marriage the following week IIRC or passed some other prop 8-like restriction. Basically it will wind up in the supreme court one way or another.

1052 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:58:48am

re: #1050 Gus 802

How about one button?

DOES THIS SUCK?

If you don't hit the button that counts as a no.

Too complicated for the average Merkin.

1053 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 12:58:58am

re: #1050 Gus 802

How about one button?

DOES THIS SUCK?

If you don't hit the button that counts as a no.

Example:

Should the county provide 3 billion dollars for the study of walrus habitat in the Gulf of Mexico: DOES THIS SUCK?

1054 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:03:16am

re: #1036 Nimed

Arbitration laws by definition use a different set of criteria for conflict resolution than common courts. They require the consent of both parties to be binding, usually have a limited scope, and are not inherently discriminatory.

Well worded, and I have not disputed such.

Religious arbitration courts are "discriminatory",


Word to your mother. Is that not what I have been saying?

but only in the same trivial sense in which you cannot participate in a bunch of Sacraments unless you are of Catholic faith.

Right, but there is a significant dissimilarity between Catholic Sacrament as a rule, and murdering gays and rape victims simply because they are gay or have been raped as a law. Sharia Law.

I offer this not as deference, but as an illustration of difference.

1055 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:04:12am

re: #1053 Gus 802

Example:

Should the county provide 3 billion dollars for the study of walrus habitat in the Gulf of Mexico: DOES THIS SUCK?

Example:
Should the county spend .000000000000000001 of the federal budget protecting an endangered ecosystem in the environmentally fragile Gulf of Mexico? Does that suck?

/so easy to reword....

1056 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:05:18am

re: #1037 iceweasel

Then you and I are talking 'bout different things. My bad.

1057 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:05:29am

re: #1055 iceweasel

Example:
Should the county spend .000000000000000001 of the federal budget protecting an endangered ecosystem in the environmentally fragile Gulf of Mexico? Does that suck?

/so easy to reword...

Hey. Did you read that BP had walrus in their environmental impact study?

1059 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:10:56am

re: #1043 Gus 802

Heck yeah. You know, I've seen atheists argue against gay marriage. OK, sure it was on Youtube but I've seen plenty of clueless people of all stripes.

It's ridiculous. I have no interest in "getting with" another dude, and yes I do think that is gross. But that does not mean that those who feel differently do not deserve the same rights as I.

Hell, I think fast food is gross. Should those who constantly patronize such places as McDonald's be denied the same rights or marital privileges as those of us who prefer to cook at home?

1060 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:12:56am

re: #1059 Slumbering Behemoth

It's ridiculous. I have no interest in "getting with" another dude, and yes I do think that is gross. But that does not mean that those who feel differently do not deserve the same rights as I.

Hell, I think fast food is gross. Should those who constantly patronize such places as McDonald's be denied the same rights or marital privileges as those of us who prefer to cook at home?

Yeah. If I was against everything I though was gross I'd have a pretty long list. Plus I think I'd be a rather angry wanker.

I enjoy what I like:

Image: january-jones.jpg

1061 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:14:26am

re: #1054 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I buggered the formatting of that post most epically.

1062 freetoken  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:19:42am

For all you concerned about Sharia in this country:

Texas GOP delegates not keen on 'sensible immigration policy'

And Dorrie O'Brien, a Grand Prairie delegate, submitted a plank calling for Texas Republicans to support the Constitution "against any Islamic threat of, or actual subversion by, the Sharia law adherents living in the United States of America and the rest of the world."

1063 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:21:52am

re: #1062 freetoken

For all you concerned about Sharia in this country:

Texas GOP delegates not keen on 'sensible immigration policy'

Hey, you know. We can always count on South Carolina Texas.

//

1064 Nimed  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:24:23am

re: #1054 Slumbering Behemoth

Right, but there is a significant dissimilarity between Catholic Sacrament as a rule, and murdering gays and rape victims simply because they are gay or have been raped as a law. Sharia Law.

I offer this not as deference, but as an illustration of difference.

Ok, but what I'm saying is that execution of homosexuals and rape laws under Sharia are not going anywhere in Britain. This stuff (and I believe almost all criminal law, but I'm not sure) lies outside the jurisdiction or arbitration courts.

SanFranZ should be here. She gave a bunch of examples of Sharia laws the other day, which IIRC mostly regulated food and ceremonial stuff. If you press me on this, I might go look for the thread.

1065 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:27:04am

re: #906 Spare O'Lake

See my #898. Also, the fact is that many aspects of Sharia Law, especially as regards women's rights, are far less compatible with British or American Law than, for example, Jewish Law.

Oh, fuck that.

1066 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:28:56am

I miss anything cool?

1067 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:29:40am

re: #940 Gus 802

It's a common double standard that's practiced within the left. An Imam with a following of millions will calls for the death of homosexuals and it is followed by silence. A southern Baptist Preacher with a following of 500 calls for the death of homosexual and it become front page news. There is a lack of moral consistency.

Goes perfectly in reverse as well.

1068 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:31:05am

re: #1067 SanFranciscoZionist

Goes perfectly in reverse as well.

Yes, I know that. And everything in between.

1069 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:32:08am

re: #961 alexknyc

Many of my friends on the left think Danny Glover not being able to hail a cab is cause for a protest march but I hear crickets on Darfur.

They think the glass ceiling in corporate America is an abomination but on genital mutilation and honor killings? Nothing.

They're besides themselves over Prop 8 but all I hear is silence regarding the hanging of Iranian gays.

Maybe I'm just hanging out with the wrong lefties.

I hear crying and whining from my friends on the right about the plight of Arizona, but on Darfur? Not so much?

We can play this game all night, but yes, you're hanging out with the wrong lefties, and using your 'friends' to make yourself feel morally superior. It isn't particularly pleasant.

1070 Gus  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:33:01am

Heard a good one yesterday on Ted. The world has become so anti-elitist that everyone is against experts yet everyone is an expert. And, as I've been recently reminded. This is applicable to anyone of any political stripe.

1071 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:33:06am

re: #1067 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn't read the whole thing, but I'll reply here.

The whole 'omg they don't complain when the Imam calls for the death of homosexuals!' thing is effing stupid.

Ask Any lefty on here what they think about that. I almost guarantee I know what they'll say. And everyone else knows as well.

Its stupid posturing based on a lack of stupid posturing.

1072 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:33:08am

re: #967 alexknyc

Prop 8 is a perfect example.

Many Black and Latino churches came out against it but who got the firestorm? The Mormons.

Hardly true. There was a fair amount of ugly racism that came up over that. If you really need to know.

1073 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:34:10am

re: #1066 windsagio

I miss anything cool?

no ,, so you can leave again!!

//

1074 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:34:31am

re: #1073 sattv4u2

Screw you guys, I'm going home!


(you wish!)

1075 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:35:05am

re: #1073 sattv4u2

Had a few good hours of SF practice. Didn't do too well, but I was playing mostly really good guys. Gotta prep for Evo!

1076 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:36:06am

Best-evah line from a David Lynch movie:

"I need to piss real bad. Can I use your head?"

1077 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:36:14am

re: #1075 windsagio

Had a few good hours of SF practice. Didn't do too well, but I was playing mostly really good guys. Gotta prep for Evo!

I'm sure that means something to someone somewhere!!

1078 Nimed  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:36:25am

re: #1066 windsagio

I miss anything cool?

Lots of "spirited" discussion! Also, iceweasel and SanFranZ are in The House, but you knew that already.

1079 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:37:09am

re: #1077 sattv4u2

It means I hopefully won't be '2 and out' at what is probably the premier US fighting game tournament!!!

1080 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:37:25am

re: #1078 Nimed

Yeah, I'm reading posts as SFZ dings them in the spy :)

1081 Nimed  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:38:33am

re: #1076 Cato the Elder

Best-evah line from a David Lynch movie:

"I need to piss real bad. Can I use your head?"

I've been meaning to re-watch Mulholland Drive. And The Straight Story right after, as an antidote.

1082 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:40:15am

re: #1078 Nimed

Lots of "spirited" discussion! Also, iceweasel and SanFranZ are in The House, but you knew that already.

I have totally got to go to bed. I have a last day of school to get to tomorrow. But I'm all keyed up.

Now I've read Iteration #4343 of "Why Sharia Law Is Really, Really Bad And Scary, And Just The Same In New Jersey As Saudi Arabia, And Halacha Is Just Like Civil Law, Really", and I'm not much calmer.

1083 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:40:49am

re: #1082 SanFranciscoZionist

Haha, LGF before bed=recipe for disaster!

1084 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:41:04am

re: #1082 SanFranciscoZionist

last day of school tho' yay!

Do your kids usually get all weepy?

1085 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:42:52am

re: #1084 windsagio

last day of school tho' yay!

Do your kids usually get all weepy?

Oh, we had that already. Tomorrow is just turning in the keys and such.

1086 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:43:22am

re: #1085 SanFranciscoZionist

Come in and pretend you're drunk and/or high!

I always wanted to do that :D

(and its better 'cuz its a catholic school!)

1087 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:45:41am

re: #1086 windsagio

Come in and pretend you're drunk and/or high!

I always wanted to do that :D

(and its better 'cuz its a catholic school!)

Well, since at the end-of-year party last week, Father brought the booze...it's rather hard to shock this crowd.

1088 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:46:07am

re: #1087 SanFranciscoZionist

Dammit.

Oh well :D

1089 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:46:59am

re: #615 Aceofwhat?

Of course not.

OTOH, siring offspring (among a million other things) creates a much greater awareness of when not to opine on another parent's style.

I completely missed this earlier, in between my earlier comments, my long beer run walk, and now. I was not ignoring you, Ace. Just so you know.

To your point. I need not sire offspring in order to have an opinion on parenting. I was once a subject of such, and I believe such perspective should not be so readily discounted simply because I have not yet had the opportunity to exercise such authority. I consider the "do you have kids" argument to be a terribly poor. A canard.

The following has no bearing nor relevance to the convo Mandy and I were having...

As an extreme example, I need not sire children of my own to know that the likes of Fred Phelps are doing wrong. As a far more moderate example, I need not sire offspring of my own to offer an opinion of my own to those who openly share their experiences of such here.

As I said before, I was once a child. I should not need to have any of my own to get a golden pass to have an opinion, any kind of opinion, on any subject regarding children.

1090 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:49:06am

I'm posting weird or bad editorial cartoons in the other thread if anyone is sitll up but at odds and ends :)

1091 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:50:40am

re: #1064 Nimed

Well enough. What I said in a previous post is that we need no new laws banning Sharia here in the states, as such barbarous and backwards practices are already rightfully illegal under current U.S. law.

1092 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:52:23am

OK, really going to sleep now.

1093 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:53:42am

re: #1092 SanFranciscoZionist

Peaces lady! I think I"m gonna go find my sleeping pills and see where that takes me :D

1094 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:53:46am

re: #1091 Slumbering Behemoth

Well enough. What I said in a previous post is that we need no new laws banning Sharia here in the states, as such barbarous and backwards practices are already rightfully illegal under current U.S. law.

Maimonides says that you flog someone who practices stage magic, but nonconsensual flogging is illegal in the United States, and stage magic is not.

It's pretty simple, folks.

1095 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:54:20am

re: #1094 SanFranciscoZionist

yeah that's about the long and the short of it :P

1096 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 1:56:36am

re: #1094 SanFranciscoZionist

WTF? That reference went right over my head, lady.

1097 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:03:17am

re: #1066 windsagio

I miss anything cool?

Just the usual.

Kudos to you and WUB for fighting the good fight, btw. :)

1098 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:03:56am

re: #1097 iceweasel

We are studs!

1099 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:06:15am

re: #1086 windsagio

Come in and pretend you're drunk and/or high!

I always wanted to do that :D

(and its better 'cuz its a catholic school!)

I attended a Catholic school, and we weren't pretending.

Seriously, the sound of spewing was deafening in the bathroom at lunch, and only a few of those people had eating disorders.

1100 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:10:39am

re: #1098 windsagio

We are studs!

Who doesn't love you?!?

Youtube Video
1101 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:11:52am

re: #1100 iceweasel

WHO LOVES YOU AND WHO DO YOU LOVE?!!

1102 The Left  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:16:31am

re: #1101 windsagio

WHO LOVES YOU AND WHO DO YOU LOVE?!!

SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! WHAT COUNTRY ARE YOU FROM ANYWAY? YOU"RE OBJECTIVELY PRO-JIHAD AND ANTI-ISRAEL, AND I WILL PROVE THIS BY POSTING LINKS ABOUT GEORGE SOROS FROM HOLOCAUST DENIAL SITES AND FROM LAROUCHE SITES!

Or maybe I'll post a lee greenwood video.

Youtube Video

FUCK YEAH!

1103 windsagio  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:26:34am

re: #1102 iceweasel

I know you're taken, but I freakin' love you sometimes :D

1104 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:46:31am

re: #1102 iceweasel

holy fuck you guys should come to portland so we can show you the local flora

1105 Bagua  Thu, Jun 10, 2010 2:26:51pm

re: #1082 SanFranciscoZionist

I have totally got to go to bed. I have a last day of school to get to tomorrow. But I'm all keyed up.

Now I've read Iteration #4343 of "Why Sharia Law Is Really, Really Bad And Scary, And Just The Same In New Jersey As Saudi Arabia, And Halacha Is Just Like Civil Law, Really", and I'm not much calmer.

Which is a false and uninformed caricature of what you did read.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Hawaii’s Mauna Loa Observatory Just Captured Ominous Signals About the Planet’s Health Hawaii’s Mauna Loa Observatory just captured an ominous sign about the pace of global warming. Atmospheric levels of planet-warming carbon dioxide aren’t just on their way to yet another record high this year - they’re rising faster than ever, ...
Cheechako
2 hours ago
Views: 37 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 465 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1